Joe Rogan Experience #2340 - Charley Crockett

Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe. Rogan Experience. Train by day. Joe. Rogan podcast by night. All day. Yeah. The doing something at the Viper. Room and then trying to come here the. next day. The Viper Room is just notorious. Like. even when you're in the building, it. just feel like It is notorious. Yeah. And it's funny because I the only way.

I'd ever been in there was through that, you know, the door on the side street. there. Uhhuh. You know, and uh but they, you know, they had all the cameras out. and took me around the I'd never come in. through the door on Sunset before even. recognized the place. No, I never been. through that door either. Yeah. I've. like I said, I've only been there once. I was there for a comedy show. It just. feels weird. It's a there there's. certain buildings that just have bizarre. history. Yeah. Well, shooter was telling. me last night, man, uh, River Phoenix. died on the sidewalk right out that door. on the I didn't know that. I thought it. was in front of the I thought it was in.

front of the whiskey for some reason. No, no, it was the Viper room. I never. realized that. No, it's [ __ ] up place. Hey, man. Nice to meet you. Pleasure is. all mine, Joe. Thanks. I love your. music. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, my friend Jake turned me on to you. Your. music is like you've lived a life. You. can't fake that. You know what I mean? There's something about certain dudes. voices and songs. They're like, "All. right, that guy's done some living." You. know, you can't create that with AI,

right? They're going to try. Everybody I. mean, it's crazy. We were uh. I mean, we're what that we're kind of. reaching singularity, you know? Yeah. Where nobody can tell the difference. I. know. I think we're right right about. there. There was a new one that just got. released today. Did you hear the new one. today? It's even even better than the. Google one that was insane that was. released last week. Yeah, it's weird. What What are you talking about? Uh some. new AI engine that does video. I'll send. it to you, Jamie. It's uh it's pretty.

incredible. This the the the way they're. able to make stuff now where it looks. exactly like like real human beings. Like it doesn't it doesn't look fake. even a little bit. Yeah. I'll send it to. you, Jamie. is called um Bite Dance. So, is that the. China one? That's the company. Oh, okay. Dance is the company that owns like Tik. Tok and stuff. Oh, yeah. China. Yeah.

Yeah. Um this is their new AI. So, this. is all fake. All fake people. All done. by computers. Indistinguishable, you know. It's like very strange. You. got it. Throw that up. Give me some. sound. You got to click on it. This is all fake.

I mean, what the [ __ ] man? [Music]. We are living in the weirdest time ever,

Charlie Crockett. Oh man, you're right. This is the weirdest time ever to be. alive because we are so close to not. being able to tell what's real and. what's fake. We're so close. I mean, we're essentially right there with video. and then eventually it's going to move. into some sort of perception. It's going. to be feel. You're going to be able to. put a helmet on and. go into some bizarre world and you can't.

stop it. You can't stop it. It's coming. It's coming. It's And the people that. are working on it in America like we. have to because China's working on them. Okay, I guess that's just what we're. doing. Space race, even if it's just a. show. Yeah, it's essentially the. Manhattan Project for artificial. intelligence is a race around the world. Joe, did we go to the moon? I don't. think so. You know, I don't think so. either. I don't think so. It's It makes. you sound [ __ ] completely insane to. say it, but I lost a lot of friends when. I was younger when I started talking.

like that. I did, too. I gained a lot of. friends, too, though. I gained a lot of. SC Listen, man. I've talked to. scientists that don't want to talk about. it publicly. Yeah, scientists. Well, see, you know what I figured? I figured. that would be the one time in the. history of civilization. that human beings got to a new place and. said, "Nah, I'm good." and turned. around. Exactly. I don't want to look. around there anymore. Well, Bart. Sabrell, he's this uh researcher that's.

been doing these documentaries on the. moon landing, and he's been saying it's. fake since like I met him sometime in. the early 2000s, I believe. And he put. out this this documentary called A Funny. Thing Happened on the Way to the Moon. And he's got a great quote and he says, "There's not a single thing that's not. easier, faster, and cheaper to reproduce. today from 1969 except the moon landing. It's the one thing." Well, and everybody. go, "Oh, but they spent so much money. Why would they spend the money on that. again? Well, why why would they spend. money on all the things they spend money. on? Like, what are you talking about? It.

doesn't make any sense. The the moon is. has trillions of dollars in rare. minerals on it. There's all sorts of. [ __ ] on the moon that would be very. beneficial to society. And it was always. going to be that we're going to have a. base on the moon. They were going to use. that to go to other places. Mhm. I don't. think so. I mean, if you look at the. just the the way they filmed it, like. when you watched it on television, the. people that watched it on television, it. was the first time ever there were where. there was a news thing where the the. news stations, the the networks didn't.

have a direct feed. What they had was. they filmed the moon landing. They they. showed it on a projection screen and. then the networks pointed their camera. at the projection screen. That's why it. looks so shitty. Wow. Do you do you remember there was a. a movie that came out? It wasn't that. far back. And it's all about this, like. a legit movie. And I I should remember. this actor's name because he's getting. better and better known. He's a really. great actor. He played the uh he played.

the law man in Killers of the Flower. Moon that shows up there at the near the. end and finally kind of takes them down. but he's been on a lot of other stuff. and it's this really great movie about. faking the moon landing and all that. stuff for like, you know, American kind. of um cultural and economic dominance. over Russia and all that. Oh, so it's. like it's a re it's recent. Oh, okay. Hey, Jamie, can you tell Jeff to bring. in some coffee? Oh, yeah. Um, so it's um.

so it's a doc a drama. A drama. It's a. drama. Yeah, it's a Hollywood Hollywood. movie. Oh, Jamie will find out what it. is when he gets back. Yeah, I only saw. it once, but it was good. And you know. this actor cuz he's been everywhere, man. He's been in everything. I should. know his name. I need to call him out. I. think I saw him at the airport in. Burbank a few months ago, actually. It seems like a stupid thing to say, but. I don't think it is. I don't think And. after COVID realizing how much stuff. they can lie about, how much stuff the. government can hide, how much stuff that. people will just accept as being true.

despite all the evidence to the. contrary, how much experts will go along. with things, how easy it is to keep a. secret. M. It's not that hard to keep a. secret. Especially a secret that is. essentially set up to let us Thank you, sir. Dang. That's how I know my wife. stopped by. Yerba Mate, is that what. you're into? I love them, man. Yeah, they're good. You know why I like it? Really? I didn't realize it for like a. year or two and now I realize it because. it tastes just like Coca-Cola. Does it really? It does. It's close. I. think that's the secret. It tastes like.

Coca-Cola. Yeah. You know, I would like. to try the original Coca-Cola with. cocaine in it. Oh [ __ ] I wonder what. that was like. Non-habit forming. Yeah, allegedly. Yeah. Another lie. Is it Do you Was it true right that that. Bear Barrett first had heroin in it or. opium? Really? The original version of. it. Yeah. The the original product. We'll find that out. Yeah, I think it I. think it did. Well, that makes sense. I'm sure. That's real great for. headaches.

I mean, more lies, right? How many times. have we been lied to? But you know what. it is? It's um you know I think it's I'm. preaching to the choir here, but I think. it's a perception thing right with uh. you know it's like planting that flag on. the moon was a cultural thing you know a. uh. an American pop culture thing. Sure. Right. Well, they wanted us to be. dominant militarily over Russia. [ __ ]. worked. Yeah. I mean sort of kind of.

kind of I guess. Yeah. I mean, we. definitely are dominant over, you know, militarily. We definitely were back. then, essentially. I mean, here it is. Heroin. Wow. Bear had heroin. Non-habit forming, right? I got to get the non-habit. forming kind. But I mean, like, what is. the difference between that and doctors. prescribing Oxycontton? It's not that. much. Sears Robuck once sold heroin. Jesus Christ. Must have been a wild time.

back then, man. That's a great uh that's. a great illustration there. Yeah, look. at that. Two needles, two vitals of. heroin. Only a $150, less than $50 adjusted for inflation. Wow. This was in the 19th century. So. the 1800 Sears catalog used to offer a. heroin kit. I think the actor you're. talking about was Jesse Plemens, but I. don't know what about See if you can. find it. Jesse Plemens. Just Google. Moon. Yeah, Moon. Moon. I Well, the. flowers of the summer moon keeps popping.

up. But do but do do space um. h. discovery. The discovery. That's 2015. No, 2017. Try Jesse. Plyman's uh moon conspiracy or space. conspiracy. Huh? Are you sure it wasn't AI? Cuz there's a lot of those. I I I. thought Keano Reeves really was in a new.

Dracula movie. Fake. I don't No. No. I'm just going to. look. I just possibly fake. What was the. other question we had? We had Oh, bare. heroin. Yeah, man. They've been, you. know, they've been tricking people for a. long [ __ ] time. You know, if they can. make money, they'll trick you. Yeah. Back then, they were probably being. tricked themselves. People didn't really. understand what was addictive and what. wasn't. You know, doctors used to. recommend cigarettes for people with. emphyma. You got asthma, you need cigarettes. Yeah. They were drinking athletes were.

drinking Coca-Cola on the on the on the. court. Well, you know who drinks. Coca-Cola? Floyd Mayweather. Floyd. Mayweather after training would drink. Coca-Cola. And there's actually some. science to that. Like having sugar like. right after a really hard workout. actually replenishes. replenishes glucose in the body like. Gatorade. Yeah, it's probably not a bad. idea as long as my wife's got me. drinking Gatorade again. That shit's not. good for you. There's there's better. versions of electrolytes, you know.

Yeah, you're right. Electrolytes are. good for you. Gatorade's okay. It's just. it's got a lot of [ __ ] in it, you know. Corn syrup and Here you go. Here it is. Fly me to the moon. Channing Tatum. Oh, Channing Tatum. Is that it? Oh, that's. the one. 2024. 2024. So, Oh, that's the one. Yeah, he's. not he's not even in it. No, he is in. it, I think. But historical romantic. comedy drama, huh? Tasked with creating a false moon.

landing. Apple TV. Didn't see it. Interesting. What year was it? Came out. last year, like a year ago. I never even. heard of it. Oh, I think it's still How. do you have a movie with Channing Tatum. and Scarlett Johansson and you never. heard of it? Isn't that crazy? There's. too many goddamn movies, bro. You know. what I saw last night? I think I'm still. thinking of a different one, but that I. never There's another one. There's. another one. Really? I think so. I saw. it, man. It was a It was a wild movie. And they they find they realize that. that the whole landing is is being faked.

and then they and then and then I mean, I don't want to spoil it, but you know, then they get taken out. Uh apparently Moon Landing, JFK. I mean, what's the damn difference? Yeah, there's a lot of those, man. There's a. lot of I mean there's almost nothing. Vietnam, Gulf of Tonkan, there's almost. nothing from history that's exactly as. we're being told. Almost nothing. Yeah. It's all cracker [ __ ] It's Coke and. Pepsi, you know, because. I was thinking like, you know, that's.

the one thing that that they did that. everybody liked and then they've kept. that. As long as they keep that flavor, right? Right. You they can they can. muscle everybody out, you know? It's. like those like my RC cola [ __ ] like. that. Yeah. Nobody's into that. Yeah. And only if you can't couldn't afford. the Coca-Cola price, right? And the, you. know, Coke machine. Excuse me. Bless. you. Thank you. When I was a kid, that. was the only reason we drank RC cola is. cuz it was 25 cents, right? Cuz it was.

cheap. That's it. And you drank it and. you knew it wasn't Coke. Yeah. Yeah. They tried new Coke. Do you remember. that? When I was a kid, God, I think I. was in high school. They came up with a. new formula of Coca-Cola somewhere. around the 80s. I think it was terrible. They they new Coke and everybody's like, "What the [ __ ] are you doing? Why would. you get rid of Coke? It's perfect.". Yeah. Don't change that. They can they. can change and try everything else and. buy everybody out. As long as they keep. Coca-Cola flowing. Yeah. And then Pepsi. is always like for weirdos. People who.

prefer Pepsi. I never liked it. Yeah. It's weird. I like Dr. Pepper. Well, you. know, Coca-Cola is to this day flavored. with cocaine. Do you know that? You mean. like the cocoa leaves? That's the secret. to the flavor of Coca-Cola. CocaCola, the company that makes CocaCola, they are the biggest producers of. medical grade cocaine. for real. Wow. So they take the cocoa. leaves, they extract the flavonoids out. of the cocoa leaves and they extract the.

cocaine. So there's no cocaine in. Coca-Cola, but then they take those. cocoa leaves and the flavor goes into. Coca-Cola and then the cocaine goes into. medical cocaine. Wow. Yeah. To this day, I think they're the only company that's. allowed to use cocoa leaves. I think. they're grandfathered in. I think that's. exact is that how it works? I believe. they're grandfathered in. But to this. day, that's what they use as I sniff. as.

I sniffle. But these are real sniffles, folks. These are allergy sniffles. I. watched the [ __ ] craziest movie last. night. The Substance. Have you heard of. that movie? I've heard of it. That's. that new Dememore movie. Yeah, I was. afraid to watch it. Holy [ __ ] man. It's. intense. Oh my god. One of the most. insane movies I've ever seen in my life. It's about this lady who's getting older. and uh someone approaches her with this. new experimental drug that allows you to. live as a young person for 7 days and. then you have to switch back to the old.

person for 7 days. I don't want to spoil. it for anybody, but it was [ __ ]. insane. Like like I left I was like I. got to watch something stupid on YouTube. for a couple hours before I go to bed. because I'm I'm weirded out by this. movie. Yeah, that's the reason I haven't. watched it yet. hard time. That's the. I'm just saying guys. I never liked I. never liked uh like the sensory overload. like horror movies. Oh yeah. I like. classic horror movies. This is a sensory. overload times 10. I mean it's it's. [ __ ] insane. It's an insane movie.

It's really good. I mean it it really. grips you. It's very entertaining, but. just good lord. Have you seen uh um. Uncut Gems? Yes. Love that movie. Isn't. that a good movie? Oh my god. It was. like a little much for me, but it was so. good and it wasn't so crazy, you know? Yeah. Well, I grew up with a lot of. gambling addicts. So, for that movie, that movie like really hit home for me. I was like, "Oh, god. Gee, like got. anxiety." Howard, is that his name? Howie Howard? You know, uh, Sandler's.

character, is that what his name is? Howie? Yeah. And he's a he's selling. diamonds on 42nd Street or whatever. That's that's uh that's that's that's. every manager in the music business is. that guy. A lot of them. bunch of. gambling addicts that they're that guy. right there. You know, they're they're. juggling all these balls in front of. you, which is fine. I don't mind guys. juggling. What I don't like is when. somebody's got all these balls in the. air, they're juggling in front of me and. they're like, "Charlie, I'm not. juggling." Oh, yeah. The music business. Yeah. Well, there he is. He's great in.

that movie, too. Man, this is Yeah, he's. incredible. You know, I never knew he. could act dramatically, you know? I. mean, he's always been great in. comedies, but he's he's incredible in. that movie. Incredible. He had another. one he did real that was like a serious. flick way back. You remember Punch Drunk. Love? Do you ever see that one? No, I. never saw that. That's a masterpiece. Yeah, I never saw it. Yeah. But Uncut. Gems, the the gambling aspect of it, like that sickness, that the gambling. sickness is a wild sickness. I grew up. around gamblers, too. Yeah. Yeah. My. uncle was always big gambler and my.

cousin I spent a lot of time in casinos. with him down in New Orleans on the. Mississippi coast and all that. Oh, Riverbull gamblers, man. Yep. Exactly. the craziest man. I did I did I I didn't. mind, you know. He let he let my me and. my cousin run all run all over the. place. Oh. So, we were we were stoked. So, you like the fact that he was a. degenerate? Yeah. Well, and anytime he. won, like if he won big, we used to play. his bingo. He used to run this bingo. hall in uh in New Orleans. And me and my. cousin, we got we could both of us, but.

those bingo dobbers, we could play like. we could play nine card pages for them. We got that good that we could keep up. with it. And because he was running the. place, nobody in there ever said [ __ ]. about me and my cousin being like, you. know, 8 and 11 or whatever. And if we. hit though, it was always a good time. It was Toys R Us and. fried shrimp. With how much your privacy is being. invaded online, VPNs are no longer just. a nice thing to have. It's a necessity.

Some people think, "I don't need a VPN. because I have nothing to hide." But. that's exactly what data brokers want. you to think because their profits. depend on you having nothing to hide. What you do online is your business. And. if you want to keep it your business, you need ExpressVPN. With ExpressVPN, 100% of your online activity travels. through secure encrypted servers. It. hides your IP address so no one can use. it to track and sell your online. activity, and your privacy is restored.

ExpressVPN is also a great tool to. secure your sensitive information from. hackers. If you're using public Wi-Fi, like at a hotel, airport, or coffee. shop, anyone can hijack your connection. and access your most sensitive. information. With ExpressVPN, you know. that your passwords and banking info are. safe and secure. ExpressVPN is the. number one ranked VPN by the experts at. CNET and The Verge. And right now, you. can get an amazing deal. They're. offering four extra months free if you.

go to expressvpn.com/rogan. or tap the banner. And if you're. watching on YouTube, you can get your. four free months by scanning the QR code. on screen or clicking the link in the. description. For some people, that's. that's their juice, man. That's that's. what keeps them going in life, just that. next bet. you know, I I grew up uh. around a lot of pool halls and um you. know, when I was in my early 20s and I. was just around so many people that just. live for gambling. They would go. straight from offtrack betting right to.

the pool hall and you know, they'd bet. on anything. They'd bet on two raindrops. coming down a window pane. They'd bet on. roaches. They'd bet on anything. Any you. name it. They'd flip a coin for 10. I. saw dudes flip a coin for thousands of. dollars. They a guy would win a. tournament. Like this is like a famous. thing in pool. guys would win win a. tournament, win $10,000, flip a coin, lose the whole thing. And you had to have heart. You had to be. will like that was like part of the. culture. You had to be willing to bet, right? And everybody's always because. the the only way it's fun. Yeah. The.

only way it's fun is if money's. constantly flowing. So if someone's. trying to be conservative, someone. trying to save them, they called them a. knit. Like you're a knit. They didn't. like you. You know, nobody likes a knit. Like those those are the guys that get. shunned by the pool hall. They're bad. action. Where'd you grow up? Well, all. over the place really. But, uh, where. were those pool halls? New York. When I. moved to New York when I was in my 20s, my early 20s, like 23, and that's when I. got indoctrinated into pool culture. Wow. Yeah. It was just the most fun.

group of degenerates and weirdos and. outcasts. And, you know, as a comedian, I never felt like I fit in in normal. society, you know. And then I'm around. those dudes, I'm like, "Oh, okay. You. guys are just like me. You don't fit in. either. Like you're a bunch of [ __ ]. weirdos, man. You know things what I. just thought about Joe when I was on the. street in New York. I, you know, I. played up there and I'm sure you know, but um I'd play on the street all day. and at first I was playing in the parks.

and then I went moved downtown. and I. was trying to play on street corners in. the villages and all that and you're. dealing with traffic and cops and that's. what drove me down into the into the. subway platforms and those were really. competitive too. So even there I started. playing at the stations that nobody. wanted or you know weren't desirable or. weren't you know nobody's really. competing for the spots or whatever. Um, and I would do that all day and then I. would hit open mics all over the five.

burrows every night, everywhere. Um, and. the comedy the comedy guys were always. the coolest because all of them because. we weren't in competition, you know, like I know comedians can be really. competitive on the circuit and obviously. same thing on the music side, but I. ended up like playing a lot of I would. open up for a lot of guys like I'm like. at the Red Door and like in the circuit. there in the city and [ __ ] Oh, cool. Open guys up with two or three songs or. play their breaks or whatever. And you.

know, all the comedy folks liked me, I. think, because you know, I wasn't one of. them. Yeah. We were cousins or. something, right? Right. That's There's. always been a relationship like that. Like Oliver Anthony was at the. mothership this weekend and it's the. first music act we've ever had performed. there. That's cool. Yeah. You could. perform there too if you ever want to, man. I know where it's at. Yeah. It'd be. fun. I like that you've got it down. there, man. It's a great spot. Sixth. Street is just a such a [ __ ] wild. place. To have it right there is. perfect. And to have it at the old Ritz.

Yeah, it's amazing. So, you know, it was. great. Is that Is that what it is in the. old Ritz? Yeah. Yeah, we bought the old. Ritz. Yeah. Yeah. We have to keep the. Ritz sign cuz it's uh you know, one of. those historical buildings. That was a. great sign. Oh, it's a great sign. It's. got so much history. In the tunnel on. the way to the stage, there's a big. picture of uh Steve Rayvon on the stage. in 1983. Yeah. You like SRV? [ __ ] yeah. Come on. Come on, man. Come on. He's the only. dude who could play Voodoo Child.

Doesn't make me sick, man. You know, other than Hrix, just two dudes. Yeah, you're right. Hrix and him. I mean, other people I'm sure other people could. do it. I've never heard. No, [ __ ] that. Just them. Oh, yeah, man. There's certain songs. There's certain songs that you can't. [ __ ] with. Although, I did see one time. I saw Honey Honey and Gary Clark Jr. played Midnight Rider, and I didn't. think anybody else could play Midnight. Rider. And to hear Gary's song with. Midnight Rider with that, you know, like. Gary's signature sound. Oh man. Yeah.

That signature guitar. You've seen Gary? You've been You've seen Gary live? Oh. yeah. I'm friends with Gary, man. Yeah, I've seen him a bunch of times. Yeah, I. love Gary, too. I love that dude. That. guy. He's so good, man. I remember Oh, I. gave something to him and I got it for. you, too. What is it? This is a real. genuine woolly mammoth guitar pick that. is made out of woolly mammoth tusk. Damn, that is something fierce, bud. 10,000 plus years old. And then that's a shout out to my friend.

John Reeves from the Boneyard in Alaska. I got a buddy of mine who has this spot. in Alaska where they just pull all kinds. of crazy mastadon, woolly mammoth, [ __ ] cave bear, all kinds of skulls, all kinds of wild [ __ ] out of this one. piece of property where a lot of animals. died. And he's taken a lot of the woolly. m That's where I got this, too. This is. a tooth. This is a tooth that was carved. Wow. Into a piece of art with a mammoth in. it. That's a big old goddamn tooth, son. Imagine how heavy that is. Isn't that.

crazy? It's crazy, right? It's. beautiful, too, man. Yeah. So, that that. guitar pick is yours, brother. Man, thanks, Joe. Yeah. Any cool guys who. play guitar, give them one of them. picks. Uh, you know, I never been good. at holding holding a pick. Um, so I I. learned how to play with my hands and I. because I could never hold a pick well, but some of a lot of guys I know that. are really great pickers, they play. these really hard picks, you know, and. can real precise with them and I just I. still can't hold them. You you learned.

with your fingers. Yeah. Yeah. I never. never hel I just couldn't hold the pick. I would try to hold it and it get. sideways and I never like all this, you. know, like the straight cowboy chords, you know, CFG, whatever. Um, I couldn't. hold any of those chords like when I was. teaching myself. The positioning was. weird for me, you know, and so like I. kind of threw away the book and I did. what you call choking the chicken on the. on the fret, you know, kind of hold it. like you're choking the chicken. Mhm.

And that's kind of where I developed my. style. And then I learned all the. regular chords many years later, you know. Did you Is are you totally. self-taught? Oh, yeah. Wow. When did you. start? Um, uh, I was 17. My mama got me a guitar. out of a pawn shop in South Irving. Wow. Honer guitar. And you just started. messing around with it? Yeah. Yeah. You. know, my mom had tried to get me on the. piano when I was younger and I just. couldn't focus. And.

um. yeah, I don't know. 17 was like the. right age. I I needed it, you know. Uh. started banging around on that guitar. and and I mean it must have sounded. terrible. And and we me and my mama. lived in this little ass place, this. tiny place. And I didn't I was like. scared to play in front of her, you. know, but but I was at first. And I. would say, "Mama, am I any good?" You. know, and she wasn't going to lie to me. And she said, "Well, son, when you play,

people will believe you." She wasn't. going to lie to me and tell me I was. good, but she was trying to say, you. know, just be honest with your music and. the rest will take care of it. That's. great advice. Yeah. When you play, people will believe you. That's what she. said. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. And then the next. time anybody believed in me was until I. started hitchhiking. And I remember cuz. I've been out in California a bunch. recently. and it was I had caught a ride with this. guy. We were playing at this place.

called the Shanty up in uh Farmers. Branch in Dallas Fort Worth area years. ago. And there was this witch lady that. I mean they called her a witch. this. kind of um. kind of magic woman who had a barn out. behind her house and they called it the. shanty and she would have people over on. the weekends and just kind of any random. night, travelers, misfits, whatever back there in the barn. and everybody'd be telling stories and.

trading songs and you know taking. potions, stuff like that. Long story short, this. guy I met one night, his parents had. like worked they worked for like Texas. Instruments and he had disowned them, you know, because his parents were like. scientists. And he woke up one day as a. young man and realized they were like. his parents were manufacturing like. weapons, you know, and I never saw this. guy again, but that was his whole deal. why he left Texas. Oh, wow. And he was. just back visiting this this gal that.

had this shanty deal. And uh I talked to. that guy that he promis he would he was. describing this town of Booneville uh. which is this community in Menescino. County, Northern California. And uh the way he was describing it to. me at this in this barn or whatever, it. sounded like uh the Garden of Eden or. something, you know what I mean? Like. and and I wanted so badly to go with. him. and he promised me and this other. guy that was playing guitar too that he.

would take us and we passed out at the. lady's house. When we woke up that next. morning, he was still there and I was. like, "Man, you ready to go to. California?" And he was like, "What are. you talking about? What are you talking about?" Like when I. pressed him, he's like, "Man, I was on. acid. I was on acid. I I don't remember any of. that. I don't have any room for you.". And I I begged that I begged him like my. life depended on it. and he took me and. this old boy who was playing guitar. Actually taught me a lot of songs back. then. He took us to California. Uh but.

as we got closer to Booneville and we. were talking two naive young Texas boys. who had never been anywhere, he realized. he, you know, didn't want us going. anywhere near those hippies he was. living with there in Booneville. So he. left us like he pulled into like a. grocery store and left us in this. parking lot in Bakavville. And that's. when I really started hitchhiking in my. life is like when we kind of got. abandoned in a parking lot. Wow. Kind of. along the five. Right. How old were you?

20. one probably 22 something like that. And. I had done some a little bit of hitching. before like around South Texas and like. Louisiana, but I'd never really been way. out there. And uh anyway, I started. hitchhiking around um because I had to. But I remember it was in California the. first time by anybody besides my mama. ever looked at me playing guitar as it. having any kind of value, you know, like.

any economic value or like it was a it. was a a trade of, you know, recognition, you know, it was kind of the was the. first time I was out there out there. So. you'd been playing about four four or. five years back then? Yeah. Yeah. I was. playing outside because our place was so. small. I wasn't playing outside to like. make money or anything like that. I. would go to this park had like a. baseball diamond on it, sit on these. bleachers or whatever. And I'll never.

forget the first time anybody threw like. just a pocket full of change in my case. I'm sure it's because they, you know, were worried about me, felt bad for me. or or whatever, you know. And it wasn't. like that. It wasn't like that money hit. the case and and then like a light went. off or anything, you know? It was a slow. it was a slow gradual deal like I was. playing outside. because there was, you know, there. wasn't enough room to play in the h in.

the house or whatever, you know, and. then, you know, I got in a lot of. trouble with the law. Um, which kind of. put me on the run, put me on the road. And what was the trouble with the law? Uh, you know, my I've said it a lot and it's. funny. I'm a lot better known than I. used to be. So, it's like you say stuff. about your family and they hear about it. and they get mad. They get mad. But, uh, it's so funny cuz it's all over the. internet and uh they're the ones that.

had the government on their ass, not me. But anyways, yeah, we just kind of, you. know, [ __ ] hit the fan, got up in the. newspapers. My brother didn't go to high. school, you know, neither my sister, neither of them went to high school. They both dropped out, you know, cuz I'm. from South Texas. I was born in the real. Grand Valley. They were born up in. Dallas, but my mama had moved down there. to uh South Padre Island area, Macallen. Haringen area there. And um. anyway, it's poor and pretty hard living. down there. And you know, hell, I didn't.

wear shoes till I was probably nine or. 10 years old, you know, playing outside. And my brother and sister, they're 10. years older than me, half brother and. sister. And uh we have different. daddies. and uh they really lived wild, you know. It was things were pretty. pretty tough back then or whatever. I'm. telling you that background because. my brother became a hustler, you know, because he had to because of a lack of. education, lack of access, you know, because of poverty. Um, and I've.

honestly always respected him for that, you know. Um, he took he used to take me. around door to door selling newspapers. when I was 11, right? And you want to. know why? Cuz I had I had broken my arm. And he realized if you carted that young. boy out in front of those those. apartments when that lady entered the. door and it's these two brothers and one. of them's got a broken arm, she's going. to buy the she's going to go ahead and. subscribe. Yeah. Bad. Yeah. And in a in. a in a nutshell, man, he.

you know, through all that stuff, you. know, he he started out as a door to. door salesman, you know, hustling. newspaper subscriptions, right? Then he. started like selling neck ties and like. men's clothing door too in downtown. Dallas office buildings, you know, and. as a very young man and eventually he. graduated to, you know, hard knock boiler room type of. guys, you know, you keep knocking on. those doors in that Wild West business.

scene of towns like Dallas, you know, or. Houston, you know, eventually you're. going to find what you're looking for. and he got in with some big old wolves, you know, and eventually it it knocked. everybody out and a lot of people died, a lot of people went to prison and um. you know, we were in the paper and. uh I couldn't all I found myself not. being able to get a bank account and. nobody I knew would go near me, you. know, and um so it ended up being like a. Bob Marley type of thing, you know, like.

you know, he said uh if you're not. living good, travel wide, right? And I literally just walked out. of town because, you know, we had. Scarlet Letters on our chest. And that's. when I that's when I really started. learning how to stand behind that guitar. and write songs and slowly but surely. start I I learned how to play basically. in front of people and people just were. giving me money kind of over time. That. and you know, food and shelter in. exchange for my story at their back.

door. This episode is brought to you by. Netflix. Do you think your family's got. drama? Wait till you meet the Buckleys. I'm talking about the new Netflix drama, The Waterfront. Set in a coastal town in. North Carolina, it follows the powerful. Buckley family who've ruled Havenport. for decades. But now, their fishing. empire is falling apart fast, and their. legacy is on the line. There's power. grabs, addiction, legacy, love. From the. creator of Scream and Dawson's Creek,

The Waterfront is messy, twisty, and. totally binge-worthy. Watch The. Waterfront now only on Netflix. You. know, do you ever wonder like how things. could have gone? Cuz things turned out. great. Like look, you're popular music. artist now, you know, worldwide. You're. famous. I'm surprised I I'm You know. what I'm surprised by? I'm surprised I. never got heavily addicted to drugs. Yeah, I am. you know, my my sister. passed away 10 years ago from substances.

and hard living and all that kind of. stuff. And hell, my whole family is in. AA. Everybody top to bottom, left to. right, turn them inside out. I think. about it a lot, but I really do, you. know, and I remember I was living with. that guy who uh was at the shanty that. was playing guitar. He's on the football. team. I knew him from sports. His name. was Daniel Harmon. And he went out there. to California with me that first time. And we were living on farms and I was. working for Ganja farmers, uh working on.

horse farms, working for guy, uh uh wine. makers, all kind of people, you know, just just doing grunt work for them, doing the fence work they they they. didn't want to do, moving soil for. people, you know what I mean? Digging. ditches, you know, laying pipe across. really hard, you know, rocky roads. Not. anything anybody can do. you just need, you know, broad back and a, you know, to. be young, right? And um. but before I ever left Texas, I moved in.

with his his sister. And I remember and. she was just my friend. I was never in a. relationship with her or anything, but. she was working at Silver City in West. Dallas, the gentleman's club at 18 and. making more money than anybody I'd ever. seen. the girl was 18, you know, and. just making crazy crazy money and I was. live. She let me rent a room from her. and kind of gave me a deal and all that. And uh.

I ended up writing a song kind of about. it more recently called Easy Money that. I did with Shooter on this on the. Lonesome Drifter record. And it's kind. of that thing, you know, if you're poor. kid from Texas, there's no such thing, you know, as easy money. But um not I. can't remember why I was telling you. that but um. it was hard on I just remember like. seeing you'd see like young women. working in strip clubs making big money.

and the ones that I was around and have. been around very very hard for that line. of work my line of work your line of. work not to become addicted. Yeah. you. know, and I don't have a problem with, you know, a lot of the best most most. best artists I ever saw struggled. struggled with addiction, you know. Um, but I have in that way I have been very. fortunate. Very very fortunate that How. did you avoid it? I don't know. You know what it is, man. I never had no kind of no had no kind of.

tolerance, you know. I'm I've always. been like I guess get drunk off of one. drink. and it's never changed. I just felt it. all like really strong, you know, like. that's probably good. Yeah, maybe it's a. survival instinct, too. I've never. really thought about why, you know, but. I've considered it because my brother's. been through, you know, he he did a lot. of time in prison and, you know, my. my sister had and my mama, you know, I. mean, they both had their first kid, you.

know, when they were teenagers, you. know, um, a lot of it I do credit to my. mama, you know, it's like, you know, she. told me something I remember that stuck. with me. I've been saying this all the. time, Joe, and like we had a lot of. trouble in our family and a lot of. people that we knew, a lot of. dysfunction, a lot of trauma. Um, but what my my mama kind of got out. of that, she kind of is the person in. the family that said, "I'm going to.

change the trajectory of this line in. now in my generation, you know, and she didn't have an. education and um, you know, she took. herself back to school after I was born. um you know and cleaned up her act and. and and and got out of it and and. isolated me from a lot of that [ __ ] and. um which I think is a big part of the. reason that I maybe didn't Right. You. had a role model. Yeah, I had a role. model. You know, I didn't there was no.

male role models at least not at home. They were only they were only pro aletes. and coaches at school, you I mean, it's. increasingly difficult for young men to. find. strong men of courage and vision that. can help them grow into good men, too. I. mean, it's it's it seems almost. impossible these days. It's. unbelievable, right? It's very difficult. to find in your personal life. It's. hard, man. You have to find it in other. ways. You have to find it people online. or I found it world athletes in in.

um. like uh. like excellence in like athletics, right? You know, um where the only way. you can get there is hard work. Yeah. And odds are stacked against you and it. requires incredible focus. I mean, I. just I think that's why I'm always so s, you know, in such awe of of those people. when they're able to um succeed like.

that. But what I wanted to say to you. that my mama said, she said, "What. happened to you when you were young, it's not your fault, but now you're a. man and it's your responsibility." M and. I've been living I've been living off of. that, you know, for a long time, you. know, cuz it's like if you don't take. responsibility at some point, man, it'll. it'll it'll never leave you alone, right? You can't think that you're a. victim. Yeah. You can't think that it's not your.

fault. You got to take responsibility. That's hard for people to accept when. they know they've been victimized. when. they know they've been dealt a shitty. hand of cards, you can just kind of. wallow in it. But that's a trap. That's. a trap that'll [ __ ] you up. It'll [ __ ]. up everybody around you, too. Damn. right. Yeah. But it's a mindset thing. It's like you can you can think your way. out of that. You just you have to have. an example though. Either you have to be. your own example or you have to find an. example of someone else who thought.

their way out of it. And for my brother, you know, for my. brother for all the trouble that he's. been in, you know, in a way like, you know, he I. think he was trying to he also was. trying to help me, you know, and so, you. know, his hustle and his work ethic in. another sense, you know, was that's been. helpful to me, too, you know, cuz I. remember he used to hand out flyers and. [ __ ] all over the place. And when I'd be. like a teenager, he'd be like he'd be. like, "Listen to me now. If you go, if.

you leave an event at the other day that. you're handing out flyers and you're. flooding it with promotion, if you can. even see that pavement. underneath the, you know, pamphlets that. you're handing out, you didn't promote. it. Wow. That's what he used to tell me. I was like 15, 16. And that all has. come, that mentality came in handy for. me because, you know, I was just a. street performer, just an itinerant. performer. And um you know I did have to. learn how to market myself you know and.

and um part of the reason that I was man. sometimes being underestimated is like. the best thing that could happen to you. you know because I think one of the. biggest challenges for like in the music. industry at least is that the way the. business works now is they're almost. exclusively. you know you ever seen Moneyball? Brad Pit flick moneyball. Yeah. Right. Yeah. How they you know they introduced. that concept of looking at the data to.

like maximize the potential of the. athletes and all that kind of stuff. which is totally changed the game you. know all the games. Uh, I kind of call. it money guitar, right? which is like, you know, the business is seeding the. young amateur. and. for the way that they spend and invest. and can move on if it doesn't work out. It's like kind of a, you know, it's kind. of a pump and dump, you know, and.

the thing about that and it works like. if somebody has a, you know, if somebody. like some of these guys you mentioned. Oliver Anthony and some of these guys, they have a viral hit out of nowhere, they've never played a venue or anything. in their life, you know, um, it can. happen really fast and then obviously. there's tremendous challenges is, you. know, down the line trying to keep that, you know, astronomical, you know, quick rise up there. Um, but.

back in the day, the business deals. weren't any good. You know, that they. were terrible, right? What they were. good about though in a lot of cases was. developing these artists on these. rosters. Even if they were taking. advantage of these poor farm boys, taking advantage, you know, of, you. know, poor black artists from the south. or women or whatever. Nobody was getting. a good deal basically. But you know like. guys like Willie Nelson and. Whan Jennings, those guys were making.

two, three records a year. Wow. You. know, and you think about when Whan. breaks through right in the mid70s, you. know, like. as he's doing, you know, coming into his. own in 1974, 1975. I mean, how many records in is he at. that point, you Wow. He's how many I. mean, you know, Willy's Reddit Stranger, which. revolutionized country music or like the. Outlaws compilation record that the two.

of them were on together, which was. basically a compilation and kind of. marketed as the outlaw subgenre. Um, you know, those guys were 15 those. guys were 15, 16, 17 records in. You. know, Artha Franklin popped off on her. ninth or tth record. Wow. You know, and. these most of these artists, the way the. business works, they won't make nine or. 10 records in their career, right? That's crazy to me. That is crazy. And.

what better way to develop than to just. keep constantly producing new music and. learn along the way in in being. neglected or. misunderstood by the business when I was. first dealing with it. That was the It. was a really really a blessing because I. ended up making so many records, you. know. Yeah. The music business has always been so. predatory. But it's it's it's like it's the way I. describe a lot of things. It's like when.

you get something that's good combined. with a bunch of people that want to make. money off that something that's good, you know, whether it's medicine or. whether it's music or even in comedy, you get the same thing. You get a bunch. of people that just think they can make. money off you. Man, always thought. comedy was the hardest. Always figured. it was the hardest, right? Because you. mean like you got to make them laugh or. they're going to [ __ ] kill you and. you have new [ __ ] all the time. There's. nothing there's nothing behind you. There's not even a guitar covering you. up, right? It's crazy to me just to.

watch all those guys do their bit and. [ __ ] So like I was always amazed by. even attemp people going up at like the. open mics and like trying out their. routine, you know? That always terrified. me. It terrifies me still when I watch. open mics. I watch open mics and I watch. someone bombing. I I got to leave the. room cuz I I I fear it's contagious. Like if uh if I was on the road and I. didn't get to pick my opening acts, like. if I was working at a club and they had.

uh some local act in Florida or. something like that and the guy was. [ __ ] terrible, I would literally have. to like not listen. I'd have to leave. the room and just sort of time when I. was going to go on stage so I go on. stage with a fresh mindset. I couldn't. think that this audience had been. poisoned by this guy's shitty comedy. I. get that. You know what I mean? It's. like you're it's it's terrible and it's. like you you think that nothing can be. funny. Yeah. He just it's like this like. he's hypnotized them right into this. like mediocre state of mind like I can't.

listen. I got to hide. Yeah. And it's. crazy that they could have that that. strong an effect on the audience like. that that quick. I mean somebody can be. up there [ __ ] it up like crazy. musically. Yeah. And you kind of get a. pass, you know, right? You know, poetic. license or whatever. Well, you know, people, it's tolerable if the guy's into. it. You know, he could be into his own. music and you're like, I'm not into it, but he's into it. At least he's like. doing his song. If you're not into if. you're doing comedy and the audience is.

not into it, you're [ __ ] You're like. really [ __ ] You have to engage those. people. I see that. It's unbelievable. You got to be connected to those people. And you can't fake it. Like, you can't. even be saying the words perfectly and. not be thinking about it. You have to be. thinking about what you're saying. They. know. They're little animals. They smell. you. They know. They know if you're. faking it. And you just got to lock in, man. And you got to learn how to lock. in. It takes about 10 years. It takes 10. years of eating [ __ ] just [ __ ].

bombing and traveling around and opening. up for people and and barely getting by. That's the same thing with music, though, about the 10-year deal, you. know, the 10,000 hour thing. Mhm. There's no doubt about it. I think it's. probably almost everything. Yeah. Almost. everything. Anything you dedicate. yourself to, you know? Uh, you like Nam. Chosky? Yeah, sure. You ever seen like. old Nam Chosky? Yeah. I listen to him. today. I'm like, Jesus, stop talking. Yeah, he's popping off, isn't he? Well, he just went the COVID vaccine stuff. He.

was out of his [ __ ] mind. He was. wanted people to be isolated and. quarantined and taken away from society. if they weren't willing to take this. [ __ ] experimental [ __ ] that turned. out. I haven't kept up with him in in. recent years. Well, he's old, right? and. old people. Unfortunately, also he's an. academic, so academics tend to trust. experts in whatever field they're in. And if he doesn't have an understand. like he he has a deep understanding of. how compromised people are politically. by money, you know, and he's written.

some brilliant work on essentially the. the way the the media is compromised and. the way, you know, politics are. compromised. I don't think he applied. that same skepticism towards the. pharmaceutical industrial complex which. is strange. Well, people have their. blind spots. Yeah, we all we all do. And. they trust experts and if you you know. he's got experts that are academics and. you trust them and and also he's old and. old people get real scared of diseases. They get real scared because they know.

how [ __ ] vulnerable they are. All the. people that I knew that were old had the. craziest reaction to CO. Terrified. Even. my own parents tried to, you know, talk. them through some of this stuff. They. didn't want to hear it. They only wanted. to listen to doctors. They want like, I. don't think this is what they're telling. you. Yeah. Doctors are crazy. They're. just they got a cabinet full of pills. that they've been they've been sold to. Mhm. sell you and they're incentivized.

That's what's really crazy when I found. that out that I mean I I learned so much. during the pandemic about the medical. industry where I I just thought they. were there to I didn't even I'm so. naive. I didn't even realize that. hospitals are privately owned. I thought. these were things set up by the. government to make sure that people can. get healed, right? You know, I thought. it was all about making people better. And it's No, they're not public. the. closest thing to public. They're as if. they're owned by like a, you know, religious organization, a church. Yeah.

Isn't that crazy? It's crazy. Yeah. It's. crazy. And they're just [ __ ]. shuffling people in and out trying to. prescribe them as many things and. they're financially incentivized to. prescribe things and then they have. extreme overhead because they have. liability insurance. They have student. loan debt and they have, you know, a. high overhead to keep their practice. running. And where's Bernie Sanders when. you need him? Yeah. Well, well, no. See, so I had I had open heart surgery right. here in Austin uh to fix a what was.

wrong with your heart valve here? Well, I was born with wolf Parkinson's white. disease. It's a it's an electrical. issue. Um in your heart basically like. your heart misfires. all this electricity is moving through. it all the time. Uh you know like a. semiconductor or whatever. And there was. like a section of it that was like. misfiring and it would cause my an. arhythmia with me. Wow. Um and when I. was a kid in South Texas, we were told. that was all I knew about and we were.

told that it was an annoyance. Um cuz I. almost died a couple times when I was. really really young from it. And you. know, my mama noticed and saved my life. a couple times by getting driving in, you know, into the city there in the San. Bonito and them hooking me up to all the. wires and saving me. Anyways, they told. me as I got older that it would just um. I could get, you know, abl an ablation. for it where they apply heat basically. and close this electrical channel that's.

stuck in a loop or whatever. Um but it. but it wasn't life-threatening. And then I got out here, you know, I was. on the street for years. And then when I was coming off the. street through kind of blues jams and I. had been, you know, I was working on. Ganja Farms and had started selling, you. know, weed in the mail and all that to. kind of get off street, buy myself some. better clothes, get myself good guitar. and an amp and all that. started showing. up at blues jams and then I could like,

you know, cuz everything takes money, you know, like problem of being a street. player was you can go play the open mics. that have a two damn drink minimum, right? And they'd see my crazy ass. coming and knew knew that I was, you. know, pretty wild and they didn't have. any money and it didn't smell and I. didn't smell good. So, they really. didn't like me for the, you know, for. the longest time or whatever. But I. threw blues jams. I started leading. bands in bars. Deep Ellum, first gig I. ever got. And Austin was uh right there. at Darwin's Pub, you know, on Sixth.

Street playing kind of solo in the. afternoon. It was the only guy CJ was. the only guy that give me a gig even on. Sixth Street. I always owed him for. that. And I think he was giving me 50. bucks, you know. He wanted me to get. paid out of the uh Well, whiskey and. those those uh what does he sell over. there? Those gyros or whatever the hell. he's got over there. Um anyway, I get on. the road. I get an agent. I hand I was I. was standing out a green hall handing. CDs out on a street corner cuz I. couldn't get into the show. Handed a guy.

a CD. His name's Evan Felker. I didn't. know who he was at the time, but he's. front man for Turnpike Triadors. Um, I. gave him a CD and uh, he uh, well, he. took it home and he listened to it with. his then girlfriend and now wife. And lo. and behold, his agent, John Folk, called. me up and started booking me. And then. that's when I started playing the old. uh, red dirt, I like to call it the Hank. Williams circuit, you know, the kind of. old country chitlin circuit. John Folk.

had kind of inherited it, inherited it. from like uh Buddy Lee attractions from. an earlier generation that goes all the. way back to Lucky Mohler and that old. South Circuit that all the R&B and the. and the Hillbilly Country Boys were on. and folk kind of inherited it and. rebuilt it. And then they, you know, then Coke and Pepsi came in, you know, CIA and uh William Morris and Werman and. bought it all off, you know, bought it. all out and you had no choice. I mean,

they were going to part it out no matter. what. And that's the way that it works, right? When you get Coca-Cola's. attention, right? And they show up and. they're like, "Good job. You're taking. some of our money away from us. We're. going to buy you out, son." And right, I. think you can refuse them once or twice. and they'll come back with a better. deal. Right. After that, if you keep. turning them down, then they put all. their energy into knocking you out, you. know? Yeah. That's what I mean. As long. as Coke doesn't change the flavor of. Coca-Cola, right, they can, you know,

that gangster [ __ ] all the other. gangster [ __ ] they do works really well. as long as they don't [ __ ] up the. original flavor. Right. Right. So, I'm. on that circuit working my ass off. 200 and whatever shows a year for a. bunch of years in a row. Playing all. over the place. Seems like sometimes we. play 21 nights in a row out there, you. know, for [ __ ] kickers at Bonita Creek. Hall and punk rock clubs in New Jersey. and [ __ ] you know, playing at the. [ __ ] you know, the Saint, that. little club, the Saint in Asbury Park. It's like a 40 cap, man. It's a badass.

place. Anyway, um my I was like blacking. out. I moved up to a bus and [ __ ] and I. was like my I was getting really laded. and I'd be sitting in the back of the. bus and I would be so lightheaded. be. blacking out a lot, right? Just sitting. there, short of breath. But I just. thought, you know, I'm grinding. I'm. playing all these shows. I'm going I'm. going as hard as you can go, taking. potions, you know, just doing all this.

dumb [ __ ] working hard. And uh I was. playing at the old Shady Grove here in. town that's now closed down. They used. to do, it was the KGSR. radio thing. Marsha Milum put it on or. whatever and then it turned into, you. know, ACL radio and then Shady Grove. closed down there on Barton Springs or. whatever. But I played it a handful of. times. First time I played it, there was. nobody there. Second time I played it, it was packed and I had I had Willy's. old tour bus, the Reded Stranger. It was. one of the ones he lost in the IRS era.

that he never got back. Oh wow. And this. [ __ ] shyer, Chuck Lian, I remember he. some he some [ __ ] was selling. this thing on the side of the highway up. in Oklahoma. The reddited stranger with. the murals on it and [ __ ] It's a. beautiful bus. Somehow this guy gets it. I shouldn't call him a shyer, but he. definitely shy me. That's a shyer then. Yeah. Yeah. You know, the music business. is crazy because So there it is. Yeah. Wow. That's the one, man. Yeah, that's the.

one. it on the other side it says uh. driven only by the finest bass players. Wow. You know, cuz somebody in the band. always drove those old buses. I had that. bus. I used that bus exclusively for. about a year or whatever. And we get off. the stage at Shady Grove and my heart. had gone out of rhythm. How just say this? I almost died in the. back of that bus. I end up finding. because it won't go. Here I am 30ome. years old or in my early 30s. my.

arhythmia is out. It's It's going out. and it's getting harder and harder to. get back in to shock it back into normal. rhythm. And I just kept ignoring it. because somebody told me in South Texas. in the 80s not to not to worry about it. Anyway, um you know, I turned out that. my heart had enlarged and all this [ __ ]. was going on and I had to get surgery. The point long round point that I'm. making to you about medical industry. that I learned the hard way, man, is.

like no one's advocating for you. Only. you. You have to be your own advocate. They don't give a [ __ ] you know? They. don't like they were just going to. automatically put a mechanical valve in. my heart, right? Automatically didn't. present any other options, anything, right? Um, and I get there on the. American Heart Association. web page or whatever because I didn't. have insurance at the time or anything, nothing, you know. Um, the only reason. that they covered me at the time was the. Affordable Care Act and I had the right.

window where they could not deny me, right? Otherwise, I don't know what I. would have done and that is absolutely. an imperfect system, right? I just. didn't have health insurance. So, here. they are covering me and probably. because I don't have money and they're. dealing with, you know, how it is, you. know, American business practices or. whatever, they're like, "Here's this. mechanical valve." And I go and look it. up, Joe, and it's like, you know, um, if you have a mechanical.

valve, you automatically are on blood. thinner the rest of your life. Automatically, no matter what. There's. And you can't That's just how it's going. to be. Uh, it lasts twice as long as a. prosthetic valve, which I had not heard. of at that point, but that was the whole. thing. This can last up to 20 years. But. guess what? You have like 300% higher. risk of a stroke with a mechanical valve. as a prosthetic, a boprothetic cow. valve. Um, and then the third thing was.

that you can hear that thing clicking. You can hear the valve Yeah. ticking. My. buddy Everlast has one of those. Really? Yeah. He could go like this. You can. hear it. Yeah. And I was reading about that and man, I'm like neurotic. Like I knew I'm like. I'll never get over it. So that's when I. found out about the about the boine cow. valve. So it's made out of a cow. Yeah. Edward Scientific makes it. I carry a.

little card around in my wallet with the. tag of the of, you know, that product. number in case somebody sees me on the. finds me on the sidewalk. Wow. You know, and that How long does that last? They're supposed to last around 10. years. And I had mine in uh I had mine. done in right there at Seatin, you know, seat medical there on 38th in. uh January 2019. So, we're coming back. around to it. I'm kind of So you have to. get another operation. Yeah. But what.

they did is they put a they put a the. way they did it and here's the thing. about right medical and anything right. the medical industry is I think really. [ __ ] up and really predatory totally. profit driven and like you know people's. health and preventative well-being and. all that. I mean, we don't get they. don't give we don't give a [ __ ] about. that, right, in this country, you know? I mean, there's no money to be made off. of people look taking care of themselves. and eating right and being preventative. and like, right, you know, there's.

there's there's nothing in that. The. part about it that is amazing though, even in the like kind of insanity of all. the land of cheap traders is the. technological advancements. Yeah. the. technological advancements in the. medical field though not really you know. um available to the common person um. they are incredible advancements right. so it's like they're moving so quickly. that by the time I need to get another.

one I don't think they'll ever have to. open me cut me open open again because. they can like go in through a scope now. wow they could do it at that time it was. just more experimental and they didn't. want to do it they were only doing it on. really high-risk older patients you But. I think it's already kind of gone more. mainstream from where when they cut me. open to like if I did it right now, I. could probably get around cutting it, you know? Right. So they'll go in. through an artery. Yeah. And then what. do they have to do to it? Well, so with. me, what was happening was is so I had.

the wolf Parkinson's white. I had to get. the ablation first to deal to before I. could deal with what it uh aortic valve. disease is what it's called. And what it. what it basically is is that um over. your aorta there's these three valves. that sit on the over the top of your. aorta that they look like a Mercedes. symbol is what they look like. It's like. the best example. It really looks like a. Mercedes symbol. And uh some people uh. it's a bicuspit or whatever. Some people. are born with two of the three fused.

together or just one missing altogether. And it turned out that I was missing. one. It's like a leaky carburetor, you. know? So, like as the time goes, that. old carburetor in that truck over time. just leaking more and more and more. Wow. You know, and I mean, I just got lucky, man, cuz I was like in. the back of that [ __ ] bus and there. was this lady driving us back then that. like was like holding seances and. burning sage over the top of me while I. was like laying in the back of that bus. Like, that was going to heal me. [ __ ].

That [ __ ] didn't work. And she doesn't. drive me anymore. Get yourself a good bus driver. You have. to get a good bus driver or you'll never. get good sleep. Yeah, because you'll be. freaking out. You'd be thinking, "What. if this person falls asleep?" Yeah, there's a lot of them. Especially the. late night drives. Oh, man. Late night. drives are scary. That that highway. starts hypnotizing you. There was this. guy, there was a video going around. He. drove us around for a little bit and. there was this video passing around the. industry. This guy called Jimbo.

It was this bus driver that was like, you know, just a speed freak. And it was. like this video of him where he was like. on whatever he was on and somebody had. recorded him or like they'd put a phone. up or something because they knew his. nuts and he was like having one of those. [ __ ] like you know methamphetamine. freakouts like you know driving the bus. down the road and it was getting all. passed around the industry and I saw it. because like he was driving us at the. time. Jeez. I remember we woke up and I. remember we woke up somewhere in New.

Mexico one morning cuz we're going on. this road all of a sudden and we get up. and I go to the front of the bus and. he's we're like on some [ __ ] twotrack. you know Khichi [ __ ] dirt road that. was like behind behind a gate in a bus. that bus right and I get up there and. he's looking all crazy and the door. handle the inside door handle of the bus. had been pulled off and [ __ ]. It was crazy, man. When we got when we. got to the when we got back down here in.

Texas, man, I never saw a fool again. Jesus Christ. Well, you got to think if. you're driving buses all through the. night, there's a high likelihood you're. on amphetamines. Yeah. Exactly. High. likelihood. It's for the business. It's. like probably the best way to stay. awake. Oh, no doubt about it. Yeah. And. then obviously that shit's very. addictive. Mhm. And you need it. This. band has to get to Cincinnati. Yeah, we. got to get to Cincinnati. It's an 8 hour. drive. There's only one way to do it. We. got to drive through the night. That's.

why all the old performers were all on. pills, you know? They were getting. prescri I mean, you know, and they were. getting prescribed that [ __ ] by the. doctor. Yeah. You know. Oh, yeah. Does. this give you a a greater appreciation. for life, the value of life, like. knowing you almost lost it? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I I hadn't thought. about. immediately after that I started think I. just c started think about my mortality. you know I hadn't really thought about.

it before you know of course everybody. feels invulnerable when you're young. especially if you're young and you live. you're living that wild you know. transient moving around no roots when I. was in my 20s I guess I really. looking back now I was like man I was. young like I thought I could live like. that forever I thought I thought I could. live hand and mouth and, you know, sleep in people's pastures and. Mhm. you know,

do the gentleman hobo thing forever. But, you know, I was 26. There's. something romantic about that, too, right? Yeah. Oh, I loved it. I I I. wouldn't take it back, man. I mean like. you know I believe that you know um. you know I think mental slavery is. something that is real. and. but so much of it is us like we do it to. ourselves. Mhm. You know. Yeah. And so.

that's what I was going to say about. Chsky. I haven't kept up with him in. years, but I remember something he said. long time ago that stuck with me where. he was talking about like American, you. know, consumerism over the last hundred. years. It really kind of illuminated my my kind. of mind was. he was saying he was like there are. people working really really really hard.

to eliminate. your sense of purpose for the explicit. goal of making you a more efficient. consumer. Right? M. all human beings. live for and desire. a a life of purpose. Yeah. Purpose. Well, it doesn't matter. what it is. Something that you can. dedicate yourself to the 10,000 hours, the 10 years. It can be,

you know, anything. uh wood making or or. your buddy with the this ancient tooth. that he's carving into this beautiful. piece of art or whatever it is, you. know. Yeah. Um. I don't know. I guess some it's like a. heavy thing, but I kind of realized when. I became a transient that a lot of who I. was was like this amalgamation of a. bunch of people just trying to [ __ ]. sell me products, you know? 90s radio.

just blasting my brain as a kid, right? Like. programming. that like it's like the so much. programming is so hard for me to watch. because you know that it's only a. vehicle for the commercials. Right. Right. Right. So, whenever I'm watching. something and as soon as I think that. it's not that good, I can't stop.

thinking about like, well, the this is. just a vehicle for me to [ __ ] you. know, think I need whatever the [ __ ] they're. selling. Yeah. You know, so. I feel like I I feel like I killed like. a lot of the false. version of me that I was becoming that I. I only realized. when I walked when I like walked away. from Crystal City, you know what I mean?

Mhm. And then and then I could um and then I. really started becoming, you know, me. That's when I really started becoming. me. A lot of people are prisoners to. that their whole life because the the. only value they place is in how much. stuff they're able to acquire. That's. the only value that they see in life. They look at numbers on a ledger. So. they look at numbers in their bank. account and they look at the stuff. they're willing to acquire or that. they're able to acquire. Right. And.

that's their only measure of success in. this life. Yeah. The very definition of. the word rich has. changed so much over the last, you know, hundred years. You know, it's kind of. moved entire. It really, it really. richness wasn't a a material idea, you. know, but it what did it used to be? You. know, richness of life, uh, fullness of. life, right? You know, um, fulfillment, fulfillment, um, purpose, health, health. Yeah. you know, community.

Community, family. Yeah. Yeah. Friends. Yeah. Real life. But so many people, they they they. forego all that. They'll throw. everything out the window just for the. numbers for numbers. And they they think. they're successful. I mean, it's the way. that it's being run, you know? Like, I mean, there's no such thing as a free. lunch. You know, all this free social. media [ __ ] ain't free. No. You know, you. give up your attention. Your attention.

is very very valuable. Your data and. attention. Yeah. Your privacy, the. transparent society. But man, like you. know, you're pulling y'all pulled up. that AI stuff. I remember I I won't tell. you the whole thing, but I I was playing. on the street in Europe when uh when I. was younger. I had met a guy down on the. Lower East Side. is a Danish jazz singer. and he would show up over in the states. a couple times a year and he was doing. really well there in Denmark and the the. state really sponsors the arts there in.

a big way and it's a small country high. quality of life like he really had it. made over there and when he was coming. over to states to play music it was. almost more of a leisure thing for him. Benjamin Augerbach is his name great. singer great jazz singer and he'd show. up at the open mics and all this [ __ ]. and he I think he really liked me. because he saw the way that I was living. this American gypsy lifestyle. And he. eventually helped me get over to Europe. and I played the club circuit in.

Copenhagen for like 6 weeks or whatever. And I was really rough around the edges. and like the American novelty in the. folk and like blues clubs around. Copenhagen wore off really quick. And I. wound up back on the street, but this. time in Europe and as soon as I started. playing on street in Copenhagen, man, then being a real Texan. in Europe in front of tourists on the. street, man, I started that's when I. started making money. It was crazy. my.

money like quadrupled because all of a. sudden I was like a truly exotic Texas. is exotic and everywhere you go in the. world it means something right they. either want to shake your hand or they. step back and it matter where you go in. the world there's no there's not an inch. of the world that hadn't heard of Texas. you know and um and that said and so. musically you know it and I think. culturally it means something no matter. what you know and to play music and be a. Texan.

is worth a lot on its own. You know what. I mean? It's a big part of it is just. being a Texan. Gary Clark Jr. learning. how to hold his own under the tradition. of Austin blues players in Texas guitar. slingers. I mean, that's it's second to. none in the world, you know? And so, if. you've seen them live, you know what it. is. And uh. but I remember seeing like there were no. selfch checkouts at grocery stores and. [ __ ] in the United States back then. Not.

one. And then I was like I ended up down. in France cuz it was getting cold in. Copenhagen. And I had like I had like. two or 300 croner left and I put it all. on a bus ticket to Paris because of my. mama's favorite city. And I grew up. quite a bit in Louisiana. having some of that French heritage. And. I went down there. I'm glad I didn't. think about it, man, because the. language barrier was really difficult. And I didn't really realize it till I. was pulling into the city, you know. Actually, there was this Algerian guy.

who spoke English that was like, man, go. to Monmark. Go to Le Sakraore. Go to Le. Sakur. That's where the tourists are, whatever. And I kind of learned how to. hustle tourists with gypsies kind of. that would were let were using me kind. of as a decoy on the steps. And I. thought, "This is great. They these. gypsies love me." And I'm sitting there. playing and while I'm playing, I realize. that I'm just a distraction while. they're pickpocking these tourists. It. was a good trick. Of course, I didn't. say anything. Also, I didn't stick with. them too much. But like so like the.

automation thing, you know, they're. they're Europe is way ahead of us on all. of that because in a lot of ways America. when you try to like analyze. America against Europe and these. countries over there like in some ways. it's similar, but we're more similar to. Latin or South America in a lot of ways. with just how big the country is, you. know, And you know the the a.

you know um. because the country is so big we got the. states that are divided up all that type. of [ __ ] Those kind of technologies to. like hit the people and become. mainstream. It's slow. It's a slower. process here, right? And one of the. things, you know, about the pandemic. that is obvious to me now is, you know, a lot of people realize that they could. speed that up, you know, and, you know,

I mean, they think they've been trying. to eliminate, you know, the the risks and uh what's. the word? What are they like, you know, externalizing cost, right? once like how. do we get how do we get these machines. in here and these people out and it. we've probably jumped ahead in that. process in America a decade or more in. just a couple of years and I just. remember this was probably 2010.

you'd go into a grocery store in Paris. and there was there was only one person. working there and everything else was. selfch checkckout and that was years. before I saw it here And then you think. about the way that that's hitting in. every single industry in America. Yeah. Right. Well, it's so easy for people to. be completely disconnected from other. people now. You know, you don't you. don't have to interact, you know, and that's part of it. And if. they don't have to pay people, they can. maximize their profits. Then it becomes.

a very impersonal experience. Soilent. Green is coming, baby. It's coming. You. seen that movie? Yeah. It's a good. movie, man. That's a good movie. It's a. scary [ __ ] movie. Yeah. Well, I think. all the dystopian movies about the. future, they undersold it, it's going to. get real weird real soon. And because. automation is not just going to apply to. selfch checkckout, it's going to apply. to everything. All the all that truck. driving [ __ ] that's all gone. That's. going to be gone, right? It's all going. to be self-driving trucks and they're. going to be more efficient, less.

accidents, safer. Just remember those. big business people. Just remember those. people. I know a whole lot of people who have. relied on undocumented workers in this. state for decades voting against the. very thing that they were using. themselves this entire time. Yep. Rely. How you going to rely on undocumented. workers, right? Your yourself, right? You ain't paying taxes on it. You're. not, you know, those people got no.

safety net or anything, right? And then, you know, here comes the that's where. it's going to happen. And you know, I'm. not saying this just as a negative. thing. Like. I think you can already see in social. media. I do think there's this um. this exhaustion even in the youth with. this with this monolith, you know, with. this thing, the phones. Yeah. you know, and. I've been saying that in the music. business, like in country music, you.

know, like Mark Twain said, history. doesn't um it doesn't repeat, it rhymes, right? you know, and so it's like it's. 25 now, but I was thinking of it last. year in 2024 cuz like 1974 in music was. this crazy year, you know, and like. thinking about the Nashville system. The reason that Whan Jennings is. different than anybody else is because. Whan's the specific guy who breaks the. strangle hold that the Nashville system.

has on its artists that you can't use. your band. You can't choose your studio, right? Like any of that like Whan, you. have to think how crazy that is. You. couldn't use your band and you couldn't. even pick the studio. You couldn't. produce. You didn't have creative. control at all. Whan's the guy that. breaks that through that wall. How did. he do it? I think I think a couple of. ways. It's all it's the yin and yang of. Willie Nelson and Wayan Jennings. They.

were both on RCA. Willie was, you know, at first, you know, it's like Stapleton. Stapleton made his career as a. songwriter early on, you know, and and. that's what catapulted really for. everything, you know, that he's got. going on on now. There's a really great. foundation there of a guy that's spent. his whole life writing songs and that's. what Willie did, you know. So Willie. actually had success pretty early when. he got to Nashville with, you know, songs like uh Nightife and Crazy and all.

that kind of stuff and Baron Young and. Paty Klein and these kinds of really big. artists were cutting his songs pretty. early on, right? but he was so weird to. the establishment at the time and so um. you know kind of had this like. philosophical. thing into his writing that was going. over the heads of the Hillbilly deal. So. he was really neglected as a you know. Willie Nelson records with him singing.

them. Whan was more favored actually by. like Chad Atkins and them. Um, but like. you'd be you'd be number one on the. country charts in Nashville in the. mid60s and be in debt. Wow. You know, that's what Wayan said. Wayan was like, "Man, I'd be number one all the time and. I was [ __ ] dead broke." You know? He's like, "Man, they got you out there. seven nights a week and you're coming. back and Lucky Mohler's telling them. that you owe him [ __ ] 10 grand." You. know, that was it was a crazy system.

Willie ends up leaving RCA. They're over. him. He leaves RCA because Jerry Wexler. is coming down and ANR and Texans out of. this progressive central Texas scene of. that era that was so unique and it. happened then and just totally unique. the whole scene everything here the. movement the hippies and the cowboys the. the where everybody could like here in. the capital of Texas you know it was. weird but they were in the same rooms.

we're still doing that here you know. which is what I'm what I'm really proud. of, you know, and glad that this town. never turned into Nashville or LA or any. of those towns. The best thing that ever. happened to us is that the business. didn't grow up like that, right? I. really do believe that because it's. allowed our unique culture to continue. to grow. Um, even if it's like I said, and sometimes it's it's it's good to be. neglected by that machine for sure. But. so Willie leaves because Jerry Wexler. pulls him out of there because RCA. doesn't give a [ __ ] about him anyway,

right? He goes to Atlantic, sells. 400,000 records. The boys up in New York. don't even realize there's a country. division after Willie sells 400,000. records, which is a lot, right? They. close the division and that's when. Willie lands at Colombia. and. he's having success. Well, they were. starting to think that Whan was past his. prime, too. But then Willy's blowing up. on the other label and Willie and Whan. got the same manager at the time, Neil.

Russian. And what's Russian doing? Russian's leveraging it all. And so Whan. was about to leave. RCA. And they doubled down and matched kind. of Willy's deal. because they didn't want because they. didn't want to lose Whan. And Whan was. like, "I'm only I'm only Stan, you know, if I. like I got to be producing my own. records. I got got to be my band and I.

got to pick the place that I'm playing, you know, and he he manages to do that.". So, it's not just Whan. I mean, it's. Willie and Whan together. That's why. they're so tied together, you know, as. these two guys that. their careers just kept, you know, they. just kept cut, they're chasing each. other kind of through the record books, you know what I mean? And uh, you know, cuz you'd be in Nashville, it's still like this now, right? Like. when I got signed in Nashville uh by 30. Tigers, it was purely because John Folk.

was my agent. And those guys, they'd. tell you this themselves. They didn't. understand what is what I was doing. They didn't get it. I was only put on. the roster as a favor to my agent. because they were having success with. some other artists openly saying, "I. don't understand this, right?" Which at least they're being. honest about, you know. Um, but then what they would do that was so. weird is like they'd give you.

like if a major label would give you, you know, half a million dollars on your. deal, these guys would give you 50. grand, right? Like a tenth of that, you. know, kind of on the independent alt. country Americana circuit. But they. would, what frustrated me, what. frustrated me about it, Joe, was that. they're only giving you a tenth of. money, but they're behaving like major. labels with these like two-year record. cycles. That just kills an artist that's.

like that. No, that hasn't broken. through. It just kills you. That's a. that's a 100%. industry model because they can always. get another horse. You know what I mean? They can always get another horse and. they can always, you know, they bet on. 10 young guys and and one of those kind. of amateur realist blows up, you know, they're good, right? But you're never. going to get a Whan Jennings out of that. model, right? It's not going to you know.

what I mean? It's not it's not going to. happen, you know? And so how did But how. did Whan get it so that he could do. whatever he wanted? because Willie left, right? And they. because Willie left and all of a sudden. Whan was really gonna leave. That's all. of a sudden that was his leverage. They. gave him everything. They gave him. everything and and and everything was. changing. Everything was changing in.

Nashville cuz we're talking about when I. say like 1974 here, you got to think. about it. You know, this is America in. Vietnam. M you know this is America. coming out of the '60s you know it's. coming. everything was you could I feel like in. a lot of ways what was happening is like. you know the commercial. culture was really starting to take off. you know what I mean and then by the.

time we get to the 80s you know it's. like this level of like pop culture and. like American pop culture as a global. export, you know, by it's like I guess. maybe it's finally truly realized by. maybe by the time Michael Jordan becomes. the like most visible person on the. planet, you know, kind of in the 80s and. 90s. It's like. Nashville was such an old system. It's.

kind of like in country music today, like one of the reasons everybody's. sprinting into it, right, is because. it's one, it's like one of the only. places left where. there was like um loyalty, long-term. loyalty in the fan base compared to. like, you know, what happened with pop. music in the last 20 years with pop and. hip-hop and all that. I mean, I can't. Every one of those guys called me at one. point were like, "I want to get into. country music cuz you got loyal fans.".

Wow. All hip-hop industry guys. Wow. All. of them. Every last one of them. And. they've had success with a whole bunch. of guys since then. I just didn't do it. Well, country music has always been. connected to authenticity. Yeah. And. that's the reason why you keep the loyal. fans, right? Because people know that. it's real. Whether it's Coulter Wall or. who whoever it is, it's authentic. You. hear it and you go, "This is not mass. produced. This is not a bunch of. executives sitting around looking at a. focus group trying to figure out what's. going to hit. That's right. Yeah, man.

You mentioned Coulter. I wanted to say. this. This is something I wanted to. bring up with the Willie and Whan thing. and I've been meaning to tell Cter this. I'll just tell him on your show. So, we. were both on the 30 Tigers roster for. years. I met Coulter out at Willy's. Ranch, goddamn 10 years ago, right? And. uh he's one of my favorites. I've always. always loved his songwriting. I mean, everything he puts out is great. Don't. you agree? Yeah. I love him. Special, you know, really special. Some people. Jamie turned me on to him when I heard.

Kate McCannon the first time. Jamie. Johnson. No, Jamie. This Jamie. Oh, this. Jamie. Yeah. He He texted me and he's. like, "You're going to love this guy.". Yeah. He sent me that song. I was like, "Holy shit." When I found out he was 21. when he made that song, I'm like, "You. got to be kidding me. That sounds like a. 60-year-old chain smoker." Man, it. bowled us all over. And you know what's. funny, man? He's just getting better. Yeah. You know, he is. And he's. incredible. Here's something about that. But uh I I told him I need to I'm going. to I wanted to buy him a pickup truck as. a gift for this. This is why. So he was. on the roster. I was on the roster and I.

started way down at the back of the. line, right? And made a lot of records. and. more and more of the labels are calling. and each record I'm putting out is doing. better than the previous one. And. um there's more money and promotion. going into each album. But all a lot of outside guys are. calling. You know, all the coastal. labels are calling. New York and LA are. all over me. Culture ends up pulling up stakes and.

going to RCA. And he didn't just go to. RCA, he took everything with him. He. took the whole catalog over there. Um, and I wasn't really aware of that. I. didn't know what was going on. Um, and. RCA was like they had hollered at me. like through one of their ANR guys or. whatever, but it their big guys were. never really interested in me out there, right? They so they weren't one of the. ones that was like really hot on me. But David MSAS at 30 Tigers, very.

similar to what I'm saying is is culture. to me is kind of like Willie left RCA. back in the day and when he left all of. the sudden those guys because he took. everything with him were about to lose. me and they [ __ ] handed the keys over. to me. You know what I mean? Because and. I think a lot of it had to do with the. fact that Coulter had left and just took. everything. And so that ended up. happening on a on a on a record cycle.

for me uh for an album called $10. cowboy. And I was this close to going. to, you know, the New York Boys. and MSUS comes in last minute and beats. them all on the royalty rate, on the. money, on everything, right? So uh I. guess what I'm saying is culture is kind. of my Willie Nelson. Appreciate you, bud. You're doing good. Yeah. He won't. do podcasts. I try to get him in. Yeah. Sent me a bunch of records, sent me some. cool [ __ ] said sorry, but no. Yeah. But.

I mean, that's probably better. I mean, he wants to just be as authentic as. possible. The dude spends time actually. working on a ranch. Well, that's what he. loves to do. Yeah. You ever been up. there to Saskatchewan? No, man. It's in. their blood. Yeah. That's the what that. land is. That's what they do up there. Yeah. I've been right through Saskatoon, even that big town there, you know. He's. I guess he's not too far down south from. there, but like. it's uh. those are ranching folks. Yeah. Well,

it's in his music clearly. Mhm. You. know, I mean that that guy screams. authenticity. Yep. He does. And he grew. up on on, you know, Whan and all that. stuff, you know, and all the cowboy and. all the, you know, he knows that cowboy. music probably better than anybody. Yeah. Yeah. that well that's that's the. thing that when you're talking about. these hip-hop artists and pop artists. that that's what they fe you know all. artists I mean even someone is a pop. artist what what do they want to be they. want they want something that resonates. with people they want something that.

really connects with people you know and. if they think the vehicle to doing that. is a hit pop song they'll take that. route but then they'll hear something. like Kate McCannon like god damn that's. what I really want to do yeah you know. and you can't you can't duplicate that. the Only the only way to do that is to. live it. Yeah. It's got to be real. It's. got to be, you know, there's something. just like I was talking about with. comedy, like they they have to know that. you're really thinking that. It's. something in music, too. They have to.

know that this is and they like when you. write your own [ __ ] too. You know, you. know that it's coming from someone's. someone's mind and their their soul. It's coming from their life experience. It's who they are as a human being. This. is their art. This is a true expression. of their their their being and that. that's what makes people loyal. That's. those pop artists just want to take a. picture standing next to authenticity. Yeah, they do. Well, they want to be it, but they don't know how to get there and. they don't know how to do it and they've. never lived it and they've been, you.

know, they've been paying attention to. all the polls and the focus groups and. they've been listening to the executives. and they've been taking the advances and. driving the Mercedes. They're doing all. the [ __ ] that leads you down the wrong. path. And then one day you realize like, [ __ ] it's not what I want. You know, it's it's interesting because it's like, you know, there's always going to be. these examples of something that pops. through that's real that people. gravitate towards and then there's. always going to be these people trying. to capitalize on it and make money off.

of it and trying to figure out how to. recreate it in an inauthentic way. It's. not possible. That's the one thing that. might save us from this AI [ __ ] Yeah. Exactly. Cuz AI is going to create a. bunch of really catchy songs, you know, but it's never going to create an Oliver. Anthony song. It's never going to create. hard times, you know? It's never going. to create some of your [ __ ] It's not. It's not going to It's got to come from. a real human being. And there's a thing. that people are always going to want, you know? You're always going to want. something that, you know, a real human.

being made that there's something in it. You know, that's why this building's. filled with art. You know, I I love. looking at something that somebody made. you know, it came from their their soul. It came from whoever they are as a. human. They laid it down. Whether it's. music or whether it's art, comedy, whatever it is, it's like that that's. coming from a human being, you know, and. that's we're always going to want to be. connected to that. Yeah. I was looking at you saying that. with your Joe Rogan Experience sign and. you telling me in the hallway that it's.

named for Hendricks. Yeah. Yeah. I stole. it from Jimmy. Oh, the when we first. started doing the great the greats never. reveal their sources. Oh, I couldn't. help it. I'm just kidding. I had to I. had Well, it's obvious. I had to give it. up. It wasn't obvious to me, man. That's. what I'm saying. I'm kind of slow. Well, I had to give it up. It's like But, you. know, Austin, Texas or Bust. It says. right there. I used to listen to Jimmy. all the time on the way to the comedy. store. That was like Jimmy and Led. Zeppelin. M I'd listen to a whole lot of. love and if six was nine I'd listen to.

that all the time on the way down Laurel. Canyon. Can you imagine how that crazy that must. have sounded? Oh man. Coming through the. radio or coming through like people's. sound systems in America in the in the. late60s. Well, my friend Phil Hartman. when he was a kid, he used to work uh at. the whiskey. He was like, you know, like. a grip. And it was his job. The the.

speakers were precariously placed on the. edge of the stage and Jimmy performed. there. And it was his job to stand there. and make sure that Jimmy didn't kick. over the speaker into the audience. So. he stood right there while Hrix played. right above him. M and the way he talked. about it, man, it's like it was just to. him it was like this magical moment cuz. I think he was a teenager at the time. and it was Was he like in somebody.

else's band or something? No, he was. just working for the club, you know. He. was just a guy that was hired to work. there, you know, just a kid. Wow. And he. was basically literally just there to. make sure the speaker doesn't fall into. the crowd. And uh you know, Jimmy was. playing right above him, just right. there. Wow. And he said it was. incredible. It was insane. He said it. was just like this magical moment cuz. Jimmy live, you know, there's something. about seeing someone live, you know, like I was talking about when I saw Gary. play Midnight Rider. There's something.

live and I was with my oldest daughter. and we were at this downtown LA club and. it was like a Monday or Tuesday night. It was a week night and it was a. midnight show. It was like a real late. night show and it was uh sponsored by an. alcohol company. I wish I could remember. the company, but they put together this. very small show and it was just they it. was a total impromptu session and. Suzanne, my friend Suzanne Santo, who's. the lead singer of Honey Honey at the. time, she's incredibly talented. She was.

singing it and she didn't know the exact. words, so she had to get the words off. of her phone. So, she's singing Midnight. Rider off her phone and Gary's in the. background and I recorded it on my phone. and I up See if you can find it, J. I. have your version, but I have somebody. else's version. Oh, [ __ ]. That's what I'm talking about right. there. Jameson. It was Jameson.

[Music]. Come on. I just love when he gets into it. Yeah. [Music].

Yeah. [Music]. Heat. [Music].

The blues will never go out of style. Woo. [Music].

Heat. Heat. [Music].

Come on, Gary. Let's go. [Music].

[Music]. Are we out of That's a nice jacket, G. Yeah. Oh, that's a Uber in my Instagram. Jamie, see if you can find Midnight. Rider on my Instagram. I know it's on. there. I want to I want to play that. part because it's just it was [ __ ]. insane. It was just one of those magical.

moments where you see someone perform. live. There's just something about you. You get a lot of it. There it is. I love. [Music]. it. [Music]. [Applause]. [Music].

Heat. [Music]. Heat. [Music].

See how she's looking at her phone? She. had to read the lyrics off her phone. It. was They're all doing that now. It's. crazy. She had to cuz she didn't know. exactly the lyrics. What if you didn't. What if you What if you didn't have this. [ __ ] thing though? Well, then you. might might have to remember them. Well, she would have had to get a piece of. paper or make some [ __ ] up. Yeah, make. some [ __ ] up. You know, man, you know, listening to Gary do that and you. talking about how much you love Stevie. Rayvon, it just, you know, it reminds me.

it's like, you know, this to me it's. like, you know, it's like country is. everything and country is nothing, you. know, because if you're in if you're in. Texas, all that [ __ ] over there on the. other side of Mississippi, like it goes. away for us, you know. There's a there's. a there's a brashness. There's a there's. a boldness. in any sound, whether it's coming out of. honky tonk or coming out of a blues. joint. In Texas, it's a totally. different sound. You know, it's like.

Billy Gibbons talked about this a lot. You know, like when those guys were. trying to break through on the national. scene, the idea of Texas is just a total. stigma, right? It's all hillbillies. It's all provincial. Yeah. you know, and. all this [ __ ] you know, and so it's. like you go to Nashville or whatever and. it's all Appalachia. It's all, you know what I mean? It's cuz. it's and that's the thing. It's like I. give a [ __ ] about some genres, you know, because you get classified. But one.

thing you can't explain away is place, right? You can't explain away region, right? Like you are from where you're. from. Yeah. Gary Clark Jr. is from right. here. Yeah. And he [ __ ] sounds like. it. You know what I mean? He sounds like. it. And it's like it's not that it's. rock, blues, soul, country, whatever. It's it's Texas. And what happens with. Texans of any background, right? They. discount you for sure. Look at us as.

provincial, right? Um I mean, people got. some ideas about what Texas is who have. never stepped foot in the state. That's. not any different than, you know, people. who've never been to California claiming. to be an expert on it. Right. And so. it's like there's two roads for a Texas. artist. You either let somebody in. Nashville or New York or LA convince you. to lose your accent. You know, wash the Texas off. Do it our way. Or,

which is the only way, is to take your. brand of Texas to the world. Whatever it. is, I whether it's Gary or Selena or. anybody. Steve Rayvon. Stevie Rayvon, man. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's with. comedy, too, man. I mean, Bill Hicks, who's one of the greatest of all time. He's my favorite. Right. From here. That's right. The scene was hot, man. The scene was hot. It was hot because of. him. It was hot because of him and. Kenisonson. He's Texas, you know. I. remember. Did you know Hicks? No. Met. him once. Met him once real briefly.

Didn't even even get a chance to talk to. him, but I saw him perform live a few. times before he died. You did see him. live? Yeah, saw Kenisonson a few times. live. I I saw Kenisonson live before he. died, too, but he had already passed his. prime. Kenison passed his prime real. quick cuz it was He's a cautionary tale. because of the partying, you know, like. he was the [ __ ] man. Oh, y'all got a. party scene. Y'all you comedians got a. party scene. Oh, it's a Well, that party. scene in LA at the time was the cocaine.

party scene. It was It was a different. party scene, you know. Mark Marin said. that he hung out with Kenisonson and. they did so much coke that he had voices. in his head for a [ __ ] year. afterwards. A year. Like literally like. schizophrenic, you know, like hearing. voices in his [ __ ] head for a year. before they stopped talking to him. Wow. Yeah. They were doing cocaine, man. And. they were doing at the hyper room. everywhere. They were doing Yeah, he was. doing it everywhere. Yeah, but Kenison. became almost like a caricature of. himself. He became sort of captured by.

this. the the perception by this character. that that that they had created. And. Kenisonson is what birthed Hicks. You. know, Hicks was Hicks was a great comic, but he was one of the outlaws. It was. Kenisonson and Hicks that that sort of. defined the Texas style. And when we. were living in um at the time I was. living in New York and there was there. was really two places in the country. There was LA where you wanted to go to. get on TV. Everybody wanted to go get a. [ __ ] sitcom. They all wanted to be. Jerry Seinfeld. And New York, which is.

like the club comics. That was like the. Davids and the these guys that would. like, you know, the the guys would do. the clubs and they were they were. thought of as like the real pure comics, you know. And then there was this new. scene, this new scene out of Houston, this new scene out of the Laugh Stop in. River Oaks. And I remember the first. time I ever worked there, man, you could. feel it in the building. You could feel. that they had been there. You know, they. were both gone. By the time I had worked. there, they were both dead, but you.

could feel it in the building, man. You. could feel it in the the comics, the. open mic scene. You could feel they were. pure. You know, there was a there was a. Texas quality to the way they were doing. comedy. It was a [ __ ] you. Yeah. [ __ ]. you. That's what I like. Yeah. Hicks. would [ __ ] with both sides of the room. Absolutely. and get and and then and. just [ __ ] him up and Yep. cross him over. and put him in his pocket. And no one. knew what where what he was. They didn't. know what he was. That's right. The. first time I ever saw him, he bombed. He. bombed except for the comedians. We were.

dying laughing. See, cuz you know, there's quite there's quite a bit of. video of him from these clubs here and. in Houston when he was younger because. they were even in the, you know, in the. 90s they were filming. Yeah. And I've. seen some of those clips where he's like. like you're talking about he just. couldn't [ __ ] the whole room's afraid. of him. Like he no one no one's. laughing, everyone's afraid and he's. like super [ __ ] up. Well, he was the. first comic really that had a message, right? you know, he had like a there was. a there was a social commentary to his.

like a dark poetry to his comedy and so. many people tried to emulate it that at. the the green room the punchline in. Atlanta there was a like people wrote a. bunch of [ __ ] on the walls in the green. room but one of the big ones that said. quit trying to be Hicks. Wow. I remember. seeing that going yes everybody did. We. all did. Everybody wanted to be Hicks. Dude, you come. So after Stevie Rayvon. passed, right? I remember, you know, we. were up in Dallas Fort Worth and you'd. come down here. We'd come down here in. in in high school and [ __ ].

and go up and down Sixth Street. I will. never forget this. Every single guitar player in every. little bar on Sixth Street, every single. one of them was playing like Stevie. Rayvon. Yeah. Every single one of them. And there were 30 of them. Like there. were 30 different ones that coming in. and out of bars doing all the [ __ ] It. was It was unbelievable. Yeah, there's. always going to be someone like that. that like sets this stage. Quit trying. to be Hicks. Yeah, quit trying to be. Hicks. But it was like that was a My.

daddy died for that flag. Oh, really? How about I How about mine at Kmart? It's made in China. But he could do it because he because he. was a Texan. Yes. The vernacular is. real. And then he'd turn around and. Yeah. You know, [ __ ] up the other side. Yeah. No, it was genius. Well, when I. when I first saw him, he went on in. Boston and it was at Nick's Comedy Stop. And the guy who went on before him was. this he was a nice guy, but he was a.

hack, you know? He was just like cops. and donuts, normal [ __ ] stupid jokes, but the stupid jokes were working. It. was cartoon character smoking pot. You. know, what would happen if Daffy Duck. smoked a, you know, joint with Donald. Duck? It was dumb. But it watered down. Dangerfield, but it was getting people. to laugh. And then Hicks went on stage. and uh like immediately started bombing, you know, and immediately he opened up. with saying that he's tired of. performing and tired of going up and.

telling people a bunch of [ __ ] you. couldn't possibly think up on your own. But the comics were dying and it was. there was like 300 people in the room. By the time he was done performing, there was 50. There was 50. And it was. maybe me and my friend Greg Fitz Simmons. were in the back of the room just dying. laughing and maybe 10 comics. We had all. come to see Hicks because we had heard. about him. And then I saw him a month. later at the Comedy Connection and he. [ __ ] murdered. The Comedy Connection. was this little tiny club. It was like.

150 seats, real low ceilings. Boston as. well. This is when I was first starting. So this is like 1988 and it is before he. had really popped. I had heard about him. from the Rodney Dangerfield HBO special, you know. So the Rod Rodney Dangerfield. had these young comedian specials. Rodney was the best at like introducing. the world to talented comedians and he. had these Rodney Dangerfield young. comedian specials where he'd have on. like Robert Shiml and Lenny Clark and. Andrew Dice Clay and that's where.

Kenisonson emerged and Hicks Hicks was. one of them too and I remember I'd seen. Hicks on that. So I went to see him live. and like I said the first time he bombed. the second time he [ __ ] murdered it. was Tiffany meeting Jimmyi Hendris at. the mall. He was doing this bit. about Jimmyi Hend like Tiffany playing. at the mall and Jimmyi Hendrick shows up. and it was it was this [ __ ] just. genius bit and it was so funny man. Is. that something that's out there? Can you. see that? I wonder, man. I wonder cuz I. don't think he ever put that on.

anything. It might be on an album. somewhere, but it was back when there. was all this like pop mall comedy or pop. mall music and he [ __ ] hated it, you. know, and it was uh and he was just. rallying. There's a genre for you right. there. Yeah. Rallying against. corporatism. It's going to make a. comeback, that little subg genre. Yeah. I mean, it has do something new with it. It It kind of has. Austin has a great. comedy scene right now. It really does. And it's really just emerged from the. pandemic. Was that like the main thing. that drew you here? Well, we all moved.

here to start it. We didn't even move. here to start it. We moved here to just. keep doing what we were doing in LA. But. LA had shut down. In 2020, we were all. like we were all without a country, you. know? We were living in LA and the. comedy store was shut down for a [ __ ]. year and a half. Man, y'all were wild, man. It was so so shut down out there. It was so shut down. And I knew I'm I'm. one of those dudes. It's just like I've. never had faith in systems and. government. And I'm like, these. [ __ ] are going to keep us shut.

down. They're going to keep And I came. to Texas and Ron White was already here. So Ron White, who's a very good friend. of mine, and Gary, I knew I knew Gary. from LA. He used to hang out at the. Comedy Store, too. And that's why I. became friends with him. And he moved. here, I think 2017 or 2018, and I talked. to him on the phone. Like, why why'd you. go back to Austin? He's like, "Man, I. can't [ __ ] with those people in LA. It's. just like I'm tired of it, man." He. goes, "I love Texas. I just real. home." And I was like, "Wow, that sounds.

right. That sounds right." And then when. I talked to Ron, and Ron's the same way. Ron's a Texas boy, too. And he was like, I can't I just don't want to do this. anymore. I I'll stay here. It's great. He goes, it's great. It's the middle of. the [ __ ] country. I can fly anywhere. [ __ ] food's good. People are nice. And so I knew when I came here, that's. all you need to know. I was like, at the. very least, Ron's here and Ron's a good. friend. And then when we came here, we. could perform live in I first started. doing shows outside. Me and Dave. Chappelle started doing shows at Stubs.

And we were doing outside shows where we. had to test the whole crowd. Everybody. had to get tested. So, everybody had to. show up like two hours in advance. We. tested everybody for CO. They had to. wear a mask outside. It was so [ __ ]. stupid. The whole thing was so. ridiculous. But we were hanging out in. the back getting drunk, smoking weed and. it was like it was like normal. It was. like normal times and it was like this. cultural thing like we were the only. ones doing comedy and you know, everybody just started coming here, man. They all just started coming here and. then we started doing shows inside at. the Vulcan. the Vulcan Gas Company,

which is a music club that's on Sixth. Street. So, we started performing there. And you know, Nick, the guy who's the. owner, is just a wild dude. He's like, "Fuck it. Let's just do shows." And we. started doing shows in November of 2020. And it just felt like we were baby. killers. We were killing grandma, you. know? We were out there just spreading. diseases. We were super spreaders. If. you spend enough time on Sixth Street. anyway, it'll make you immune. Yeah. We had developed some strong. antibodies. I never got sick off of. Sixth Street. I got sick in Florida. That's what I mean, though. Six Street.

will make you bulletproof to that [ __ ]. Well, except the bullets. So, yeah, except the bullets. And there's a lot of. that going on there, too. So, we we. started doing shows there live and then. comics started moving, man. They started. moving in droves. They started all. moving to Texas cuz they could do shows. here. We were just lost. I didn't know. that. Without doing shows, we just all. felt lost. And then by the time 2021. rolled around, there was like 15 16. worldclass comics living in Austin. Wow. And then I was like, "Fuck it. I'm. buying a club." And Ron talked me into.

it. He's like, "You got to get a [ __ ]. club. We got to do this." Cuz you know, he knew I got a bunch of money from the. Spotify deal. So I was like, "All right, let's [ __ ] do it." And so then in. 2022 or three, I guess, we opened up and. it's just been gang busters ever since. And now it's like this is the hub of. comedy in the country, which makes it. the hub of comedy in the known universe. It's all here in Texas. It's all at that. club. I like that. Well, that's really. cool, man. Props to you for pulling that. off. Well, I mean, I think I pulled it.

off, but I think it's Everybody pulled. it off. People are proud of the comedy, you know, history in this town. Yes. You. know, and it's a it's a great place and. it's all walks of life, man. You know. that everybody likes to use that term. inclusive and diversity. Well, our scene. is diverse and inclusive, but. everybody's great. It's only diverse. because they just happen to be. everybody's [ __ ] diverse. We're all, you know, you get artists, they're all. different weird people. And what we.

didn't seek that out. It was just what. happened. It was just who's good? Who's. good? Who's who's really all about this? Who really wants to live this life? Who. really wants to just do comedy? And we. set it up where we have two nights of. open mic nights and you know we've got. Kill Tony on Monday night so all the. amateurs get a chance to to be seen in. front of the whole world and the biggest. live comedy show in the world on YouTube. and it just became this hub man and now. it's just [ __ ] every night it's sold. out and it's crazy and it's just it's a.

vibrant wild scene and now on Sixth. Street there's five full-time clubs. within two blocks of my club. Comedy. clubs. Comedy clubs. No [ __ ] Yeah, the. scene is insane. I mean, it's the best. scene in the country. It's like there's. never been a scene like this before that. just emerged and it and it had all we. had to hit every green light. Like the. comedy store had to be closed down. So, I hired everybody that was working at. the comedy store before we even had a. club. I said, "I'm going to pay you. full-time. You get benefits. You get all.

insurance, all that [ __ ] Just come move. to Austin. We'll call on you in like a. year. It's going to take like a year to. build this place, but meanwhile, you'll. you'll get paid. You'll be able to just. like live here, set set your roots, get. established. It's a beautiful place to. live. Everybody [ __ ] loved it. And. then when we opened, we hit the ground. running. We opened up one night. We we. did did a couple of test shows like, "Let's try the venues, make sure. everything works good." And then we was. like, "Fuck it. Let's stay open." And we. just stayed open. Before you know it, it.

was seven nights a week. And then it was. just It's been almost three years now. You going to keep it rolling? [ __ ] yeah. Hell yeah. [ __ ] yeah. We're talking. about doing it in other places now. That's cool. We just don't want to water. it down. You know, we've talked about. doing it in some other city and trying. to figure out what the next one would. be, but it would have to be a city that. has a real group of talent. You have to. have talent. Like that's every comedy. community. The only way it works is you. have to have a lot of great comics that. live in that town. It's the only way it. works. And then we feed off of each. other. That's the only way. There's no.

lone wolves in comedy. You know, comedy. only it's only iron sharpens iron. You. know, there's no like the best comic in. the world living in Pittsburgh. Doesn't. exist. Like they all live where they all. they're in not in competition but in. cooperation with each other. Like you're. we're all inspired by each other. Yeah. You you have to have that if you don't. and so we had to have like every green. light. The comedy store had to be comedy. store had to be shut down for a solid. year and a half. All those people had to. be unemployed. I had to have all this. money from Spotify. I had to be in a.

place like Texas that allows you to open. up and have a show indoors when. everything in California was clo. They. wouldn't even let you do outdoor shows. We weren't even allowed to do show. We. tried to do shows in the parking lot, the comedy store, and they wouldn't. allow us. It was crazy. No, I remember. how it I remember how shut down it was. 70% of all the restaurants went under. I. mean, it was [ __ ] madness. Yeah, it's. crazy. Yeah. A lot a lot has changed. Yeah. Really fast. Yeah. Real fast. Real. fast. Really fast. You know, so we had.

to hit every green light and we had to. have all these people that were willing. to take a chance. All the Tom Siguras. and Tim Dillons and Tony Hinchcliffs and. Duncan Trussels, all these great comics. that just was like, "Fuck it. We'll move. there." Brian Simpson and Tony. Hinchcliffe and all these guys just. said, "Fuck it. Let's let's take a. chance. Like, I don't want to live like. this. I don't want I want to live where. I can't do comedy." It's like we were. just like junkies with no no fix, you. know? Yeah. I was on I was still working.

the red dirt circuit when the pandemic. hit. So to be honest with you, those old. those boys was like it never closed. Wow. It didn't not those all those all. those old dance halls and beer joints. and thank God none of those places. closed. Thank thank [ __ ] God. Thank. God they were right. It kept us working, man. You know, was the thing. And I was. just working so hard. I never really. thought about anything else. But. something about the California shutdown. that that's funny when you we're talking.

not funny but but um like the pandemic. hit and I was unknown but I had just. finished that record welcome to hard. times and it it didn't have anything to. do with anything. I had had the two. surgeries. I had like gone through a relationship. that was that crashed and burned in a. tail spin. you know, I' I'd got I'd. gotten rid of a management relationship. that was going nowhere.

And uh I wrote Welcome to Hard Times. just kind of out of my own personal. kind of dark feelings about where I was. going through and just the whole like. rigged. casino, you know, America's a casino, you know, and I I have thought that since I was a. kid because I kind of lived in them, you. know, you're talking about being pulls. Um, and then the rec I I cut the record. in Georgia, South Georgia was with Mark. Neil, right? Like I the whole thing I.

cut it like I wrote the record in. November, cut it in December, got the. Masters back and like a week or two. later, I remember we me and Taylor. Grace, my now wife, we were dating and. we were at a a diner in Cloudcraftoft, New Mexico, and my manager at the time. called me and said that South by. Southwest was cancelled. And that for us. here at that time, that's when we knew. [ __ ] was real. nothing could stop that. machine that was South by Southwest at.

the time. And strangely for me, I'm not. I knew a lot of people that I've known a. lot of people that have passed away or. anything. So, I'm not saying that all. the stuff that happened is a good thing. at all, but for me, my career trajectory. totally changed early on the pandemic. because no one was putting out records. the whole no one had any interest in. putting out records. Um, and for that.

reason, David Msas, because I was riding. his ass, actually, thanks to John Folk. at the time, he's like, "Don't let him. shove your record. Put that record out. right now." You know, we're talking. about, you know, July 2020. Wow. You. know, and um I demanded more money. No. one no one had ever put a dollar into. marketing my records. I'm talking about. nothing. Before the [ __ ] hit the fan, these guys were talking about spending. like 10, 15 grand total marketing. Welcome to Hard Times. Wow. Total. I.

mean, [ __ ] I spent. twice that or more making it. And that's. still a cheap record, but I mean, I I. remember a publicist told me once like, you should spend at least double the. money marketing your record that it cost. you to make it and at least match it, you know? And here I was like, that's. what I I was like caught on this like. broke dick Americana scene, you know, on. these two-year record cycles, you know, with no money, you know. I was on a I. was in a broke dick deal just like Whan.

was talking about, you know, just didn't. I don't I'm not I'm not bagging on. Americana or anything, you know. I mean, I'm I'm glad I showed up on the map. somewhere, but we went ahead and put it. out in July of 2020. And I'd been. wanting to buy billboards and it just so. happened, especially in California, but. even in New York, I mean, everything was. shut down. I mean, totally shut down. So, I remember we bought a billboard in. Silver Lake and in Time Square, right? Static, traditional static billboards.

for like 80% off cuz nobody was buying. [ __ ] Not a single other billboard over. the course of like a nine months or a. year in those neighborhoods changed, right? And I bought a one all those. billboards I bought like one month. billboards and some of those. [ __ ] stayed up over six months. Wow. You know what I mean? At like 75%. off, you know? And. you know sometimes you write a song. that get lucky. I was writing about. personal experience.

and it spoke for me. It wasn't a big. record. it. But it changed my trajectory. because Welcome to Hard Times, the song. really spoke to what was happening in. America. Yeah. And that's what that's. when my train really started rolling. That's when it really started rolling. You know what I mean? It's like and then. I I did all those records and Welcome to. Hard Times and Music City USA coming. like kind of right for the right for the.

Nashville Machine and then the man from. Waco that I made down in Lockheart with. Bruce Robinson which was like the first. time really that I'd made a studio. record with my guys, you know, with more. money and Bruce Robinson, a songwriting. friend that was not stopping me from. being me, you know, and and and then. that one was my first one to hit the. like uh Billboard 200. Um and then $10 cowboy really took off. another big step from there. Uh and then.

I got hooked back up with Shooter. I see. I used to open up for Shooter cuz. Shooter was getting booked by John Folk. too, right? And the two guys that took a. liking to me early on like pretty much. nobody else did was Evan Felker and. Turnpike Juidors and Shooter Jennings. You know, Shooter would take me out and. like he didn't have to be cool to me. Damn, he's [ __ ] Whan's son. But he. was always so cool. Oh, he's just cool. and so thoughtful, you know? Yeah, he's. a great guy. And he would give me little. things to live by. Like when he saw how. hard I was working out there, he's like, "It says you can't park behind the.

Nashville Palace, but between me and. you, you [ __ ] camp there and nobody's. going to say shit." And then I lived in. that [ __ ] parking lot. That's the. kind of [ __ ] you get by on. You know. what I mean? Yeah. And uh we uh I've got. this movie that I funded. You know how. slow the movie business is? that I was. going to be called $10 cowboy and I made. it's this thing I put together. I like. finished my touring season at the rodeo. finals in Vegas. And then I get back to. Texas and all the pressure of the. business is mounting on me. Um, and I'm.

just trying to get away from my manager. and the machine and my and my phone and. all that [ __ ] And I decide to leave the. phone at the house. And I had heard from. a journalist about this secret shrine in. a liquor store dedicated to Wayan. Jennings in his hometown of Littlefield, Texas there on 84. I'd known about it, but we in the movie I I'm playing like. I've never heard of it and I'm going on. this pilgrimage, you know, to to find. out if this little museum really exists,

which it does. It's run by his youngest. brother, James D. Wayan's youngest. brother. Oh, wow. And so when to get the. movie going, I needed to get on the. phone with Shooter, you know, to get. hooked up with James D and them. And we. got the idea to get his mama Jesse. Coulter involved and all that. And I was. and I wanted to use some of Wayan's. music for the film. and and I was scared. to death to ask for it. Um but but Shoot. had always been good to me and so we. ended up having the conversation. We caught up on a lot of stuff cuz see. I'd been hearing that he was producing.

right but I couldn't make heads or tails. of it where he was going with it and. truthfully I was like avoiding producers. altogether cuz a lot of these guys it's. like you know they're such they're such. big names it overshadows the artist. You. know what I mean? And then they have the. deal. Like they have the artist deal, right? Then the artist just kind of in a. lot of ways gets limited to like acting. talent, you know, showing up at the. [ __ ] you know, movie lot or. whatever. Yeah. And um and but I kept.

hearing records that he was making by. people I knew like Jamie Wyatt. I said, "Man, it's the best thing she's ever. done." Shooter Jennings. Vince Neil. Emerson. This is the best thing he's. ever done. Shooter Jennings like over. and over and I had been noticing that. And so we're on the phone and he's all. about the movie. Yeah, I'm gonna help. you license the songs. We'd love that. You know, my mama loves your music and. all that. You know, she decided she's in. the movie. Uh he just was helpful with.

everything. And um I had almost made a. record at Sunset Sound there in old. downtown Hollywood, the old Sunset Sound. studio. I'd wanted to go in there. because Mark Neil had told me about it. and I was tired of making records in. Georgia and didn't want to go over to. the wrong side of Mississippi. Uh I. wanted to make him a record in. California and I told Shooter in passing. on the phone that it had fallen through. and you know did he know sat sound and. he was like man Charlie's crazy I'm.

signing the lease on studio 3 the print. studio tomorrow. Wow. just in passing, you know, and I'm like, man, well, then. let's make a record. And we're right in. the middle of a trilogy now. I did. Lonesome Drifter with them, man. And. then the next one that's coming out is. Dollar a Day on 88, which I think is a. lucky number. And then I've got a third. one coming after that that we're calling. the Sage Brush Trilogy. And Shooter is. the first guy I've ever been in a studio. with where I truly don't feel judged.

You know what I mean? Mhm. And now I can. and because I've got all these it's just. the perfect timing. It's like wow that. like have been out on the road with him. 10 plus years ago and then you know like. think think about what he's been through. in the business, right? I mean he. started cutting records 20 years ago. I. mean he's a crucified son automatically, right? You know what I mean? Walking, you know, walking in that shadow. That. shadow. Yeah, man. He said a crazy line. to me on the the other day.

He said uh in regards to some other. situation he was in. He was like I was. he said I went from one shadow to. another. Just a beautiful line. I think. he was talking about like an old. relationship he was in or something. But. um but like he's overcome that because. you know what I mean like he's stepped. into like if you listen to his records. you know when he's starting out and you. compare it to the field you know in. country music in Nashville at the time. like he's totally like he's totally.

swimming upstream. He's totally going. against the grain. Nobody's sounding. like that. They're not sounding. traditional and pushing the boundaries. like he just was, you know, and I can. tell you constitutionally he's he's just. like his daddy. I mean, he drink me and. smoke me under the table. I'm like, you. are whining son. And for some reason, you like get smarter the more weed you. smoke. And I'm and and my brain is like. my brain is just like pulverizing,

you know? But but I'm I'm really proud. of and excited about everything that I'm. doing with him because. I just taken me so long to get where I'm. at. And here I've got a partner, you. know, in making records that isn't. judging me, but also is pushing me to. take it higher, you know, because I'm. trying to figure out how to transcend. it, too. you know, everybody's always. there's a lot of, you know, I've always. been a pretty um polarizing figure for.

some reason with audiences. It's either. it's a lovehate thing. Um, and I've done. a lot of styles, you know, and they've. called me a stylistic chameleon. Um, here in Austin, even the first time. they put me on the Chronicle, you they. called me a stylistic chameleon. And I. had a hard time with that, you know, because I didn't wasn't taking it as a. compliment. Right. Right. It's not a. compliment. No. Yeah. But um it's that.

whole thing where it's like, okay, I can. play the blues. I can play country. music. I can play folk music. Learn how. to play all that [ __ ] on the street. Matter of fact, right? Um, it's. surprising to me that people would. question my authenticity and point to me. playing in subway cars as this aha. moment that I'm not who I said I was. I'm like, isn't that hilarious? Why. don't you go try to play in those New. York City train cars? Well, that's. people that are just talking, brother. I'd rather get on a [ __ ] bull, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Do you think, man,

like that synchronicity that like fate. is a real thing? Because just think. about how all that lined up. I feel like. sometimes I mean it's a very ego e. egocentric thing to think you know the. things are meant to be like there's a. plan for you it's silly but it also. isn't you know fate seems to somehow or. another be a real thing and sometimes. the way things synchronize and the way.

things line up you're like man this. seems like it's meant to be. think. there's certain things that's they just. seem like they're meant to be. And I. feel like if you're on the right. frequency and you're following the right. path, those those doors open and these. things do happen and they happen when. they're supposed to happen. They happen. at the right time for the right reasons, you know. I believe completely in fate. Yeah. I don't I don't really believe in. faith. M I think there's a there's a.

surrender and a helplessness in a lot of. ways to a lot of people's idea of faith. Mhm. Right. When people are like love. your struggle. I never liked that. saying. It's like no love the strength. that your creator gave you to overcome. the struggle. Don't love the struggle. Nobody [ __ ] loves the struggle. Right. Right. Right. It's the strength. and especially real struggle. Yeah. Like. real real struggle is not knowing if.

it's going to work out. You're not going. to love that. That's what I mean. I. never understood that. I mean, I guess I. get it, but like but you get it after. it's successful. Fate is a thing that's. like that's destiny. Yeah. you know, like Whan, like shooter and like the. Whan Jennings thing for me, you know, it's like, you know, I was out there, you know, we were I I did my uh I. debuted at the Houston rodeo back in the. spring and for me that was like my. career goal, you know, because of Selena. and and George Strait and and everybody.

Hell, Elvis played there twice. I mean, it doesn't matter what your background. is as a Texan, any background. the. Houston rodeo. That's the top. culturally, I think, as like a stage for. an artist to perform. I think it's the. Houston rodeo, you know, and it was the. Astrodome and now it's the NRG Stadium. And I would have never known that. It's. the It's the truth. And it does it. crosses, you know, everything, economic, racial, everything. It's it's the. Houston rodeo, you know, and it's the.

biggest rodeo on on earth, you know. Um, which is why you got everybody from, like I said, you know, Whan, Jennings, Merl, George Strait. Nowadays, you got. Post Malone and Beyonce both playing it. Wow. I mean, it doesn't it doesn't. matter who it is. Like, that's the. that's the platform. Anyway, I played. there and we were mix we're putting a. live record out on it and me and Shooter. were mixing it there at Sunset Sound and. then I stayed the extra night because he. had the party at the Viper Room for the. announcement of these three unreleased.

Whan Jennings records and they're legit. unreleased. It's not AI [ __ ] It's. not remixes. This is truly legitimately. unreleased music by arguably, you know, the king certainly the king of. all the outlaws. Yeah. But in my. opinion, when it comes to like Nashville. country music, whatever you want to call. it, man, like. uh a buddy of mine, John Spong, a. journalist here in town, a Texan, he.

was, we were at the Sage Brush doing an. interview a couple years back, and he. was saying that like. if Willie Nelson to country music is. like Cheivera, right? Whan Jennings was the long-haired prince. of darkness, right? And like he's the. guy that like he's from West Texas, right? The guy learned he he learned how. to play bass on stage. He learned how to. play bass on [ __ ] stage backing up.

Buddy Holly, right? Who at the time was. bigger than Elvis, man? You know, I mean. that style of rock and roll, right? It's. coming from everywhere. I mean, nobody's. just making their nowadays they're kind. of strangely making music in a vacuum in. a bedroom, but like in some ways, right? But these guys, it's like whether it's. Robert Johnson or BB King in the Delta. or whatever or Buddy Holly out in West. Texas, you're influenced by the radio. and all that, but there's something to. be said for like what's out how hard.

that earth is out there in West Texas. And like people talk a lot of [ __ ] about. Lick, right? Smells like [ __ ] because. it's cows everywhere. So [ __ ] flat. you know the thing you can stand on a. [ __ ] ten can and like you know see a. 100 miles or whatever they say out there. right but like the best people to play a. show for probably anywhere in America in. many ways in my opinion is like a show. in love it like there's something about. the people in that town where it's like. it's just the best place to play and.

then like Willie Nelson is now in the. Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and he. deserves it Dolly Parton now too but. Whan Jennings was always rock and roll. like He was never traditional country. There's nothing about him, if you know. what you're listening to, even on his. very first record, like country folk, folk country, right? There's nothing. straight ahead. Listen to anything. coming out of Nashville in like 1965. Anything next to Wayan Jennings, he's. the long-haired prince of darkness. you. know, he is like he is going to be the.

their undoing of the because what they. did is they built a they built a wall. around Nashville because the coast had. all the money and all the zeit guys. power and in response Nashville. walled themselves off, right? You know. what I mean? That's really what they. did. And then Whan Whan busted through. And I know I'm going back on that a lot, but like my path that led to making. records with Shooter was that when I.

started figuring out like the map is. when I like cracked the code and. realized why what was doing musically. Like I just I finally fell in love with. him musically and it was on this. specific record from 1968 called Hanging. On, right? And like every swinging dick. in this business that I ever knew coming. up in Texas that had anything to do with. Texas songwriters or country, every one. of them wanted to be Whan Jennings, Willie Nelson, Towns Vanzant, and Billy.

Joe Shaver. Every single one. And I. naturally stepped of that because. everybody I knew was trying to do it. and like imitating an artist like for. the advanced part of their movement on. in and of itself that's worthless. It's. it's not that it's worthless. It's that. you will never touch it if you don't go. walk your own path. Right. So, a lot of. guys I knew when I started playing all. the shows with Willie, Willie called me.

up and got me on with his agent and [ __ ]. and put me on like 50 shows. And a lot. of guys I knew were like looking at me. like, "Man, why do you get to play with. Willie?" You know, and at first I didn't. even I didn't know, right? Cuz I was. realizing guys that I knew like they. knew Willie Nelson [ __ ] in and out. We're literally trying to sing like him. So, they're like, "Fuck you. I should. have that spot." And like, you know, I'm. nobody at the end of the day, right? I'm. I I'm the best at being me, right? You. know, and when sometimes, right? But.

like how I think I've landed with. Shooter and his family and and be. playing all those shows with Willie and. getting married on his ranch and all. that stuff is because not because I. worship Willie Nelson, but because I. think Willie looked at me and was like, I like I like what you're doing. I like. how you got where you're at. you can. play with me. You know, you don't ask to. take your picture with Willie. He. [ __ ] lets you know when you're going.

to take your picture with him. You know. what I mean? He's going to let you know it's time to. get your picture taken with Willie. That's how that's how they did it. Wow. And we're standing there's like 100. nitrous cans behind us and [ __ ] It was. like the greatest photo of my life, you know? Yeah. It's a natural. inclination that people have when they. want to be authentic to imitate. authenticity. And that's the thing is you got to find. your own path. You got to you got to you.

have to put. you have to put yourself out there, you. know? Like when I was playing on the. street, people knew I was different. and. artists, the hipsters like in the. Brooklyn scene and in Bushwick and. Williamsburg and. all over the burrows and [ __ ] like to be. on the street playing like there there's. credibility to that, right? But and like. I didn't want to play in subway cars. Actually, what it was is young rapper.

Jaydon Jaydon Woodard is his name. And. uh he kept seeing me at the um. Metropolitan Avenue stop playing there. at the platform, you know, for the for. the for the cars coming by on the L. train or whatever. G train down there on. Metropolitan. G- Train sucks to ride on. It's great for subway performers because. there's like it's the slowest train in. the world, right? So you get huge. audience between every [ __ ] you. know, train. So, it's a gold mine for a.

for a street performer and a terrible. drag for the, you know, New Yorkers. waiting on it, right? Anyways, this kid. kept trying to get me. He would always. show up with like a different guitar. player and [ __ ] with like an amp on his. shoulder, which I copied. I got an amp. ran off a 9volt battery. You get about. seven, eight hours of it in this. Telecaster. And I learned it from this. guy, Ghost, who was already doing it. that was playing with Jaydon, who was. like kind of part of Citizen Coke, Clarence Greenwood street team.

and he kept trying to get me to go on. the subway cars and I was like man this. kid's crazy like he's rapping and [ __ ]. and man the subway cars like ah I'm all. right you know and eventually he like. kind of cornered me actually what it was. I kept dodging him and then I was. finished one day and I get in the car. it's on the L train and I'm riding in. the car and I'm just sitting there. looking down the train and all of a. sudden I see that skinny [ __ ] in. a white tea.

walking toward me and he's moving but he. can't really you how the trains can be. loud and I'm looking at him I'm trying. to put it together and when he gets. closer I realize he's rapping and he's. got that guitar player with him with the. amp behind him it's playing this like. really badass bluesy hip-hop beat and. he's freestyling like you know the hat. you're wearing he's rhyming to it the. next stop he's putting it in the verse. and [ __ ] and he's got all these mixtapz. in his hand and he's handing them out. and [ __ ] and he sees me and he hands me. one and that's how he got me cuz I saw. like it working and he was making money.

and like dropping product, you know? I. thought, "Holy [ __ ] right? Cuz so like. comedy scene, music scene, whatever.". Say you got a place on Sixth Street. holds, right? 100 people and you play. there 30, you get a residence and you. play there 30 nights a month, right? And. you get 100 you different people show up. there every night that what is that? 3,000 people. It's like, dude, we could. hit you could hit 3,000 people in like. half a day on the on the train cars once. we started working it. And so it was.

like it was his it was his and he was a. spoken word poet. This kid this kid. started [ __ ] rapping on trains at. like 15. Wow. In like Philly, which is. [ __ ] man. Phillyy's tough. I don't have. to tell you, Philly's tough. Like train. cars in Philly. That's mind-blowing, you. know. And then he comes to New York with. that and like takes that spoken word. improvisational thing and like all the. best rappers I saw in that town, they. were all like spoken word poets because.

you know they just were smart and quick, you know, and like we then we got. together and like mashed it up and again. like I went from making where I would. make $30, you know, all of a sudden like. we would make $300 and split it, you. know, 50/50. Wow. And we turned that. into a whole like a really fine pretty. welloiled machine where there started. being five or six of us and we were. bringing guys up and down from New. Orleans and [ __ ] So that's where you. see the trumpet players, different. spoken word rappers. We were squatting.

in warehouses, you know, owned by. Hassids that were like renting out space. that was supposed to be for rehearsal, but really everybody was living there. and selling drugs and [ __ ] whiling out. And you know, I cranked that up. We. cranked that up and did get and did get. discovered by like the heart of the pop. machine right there on the R train. Wow. And like just what you would think. You. can see video of this stuff. But it's. like they saw that we were believable. Yep. And we're just trying to figure out.

and that's one of the spoken word dudes. right there was Eric. He was from. Jacksonville, Florida. And that hippie. right there, that was my uh friend of. mine's younger brother from uh high. school down here in Texas. There's something about street. performing that is there's no net there. You you you're performing for people. that are involuntary. Oh man, they don't. want you in there. And you're breaking. like 10 laws. You're breaking 10 laws. and they don't want you in there. Right. But if you're good, if you're good, it.

means a lot. You ever see the video of. Biggie when he's performing? He's 17 on. a street corner in Brooklyn. Oh yeah. Oh. my god. You pull that one up. Can we see. it just for fun? Pull that up. That. [ __ ] video is like you watch him this. kid. This kid with this talk about even. though he I mean I know he's the king. but he's still underrated. You know what. I mean? Yeah. He's crazy underrated for. that. How smart he was. Oh, he was so. good. He was so good. Stand standing on. a street corner. Yeah, that's the one. Let me hear this.

deep until I started hopping off street. making. a regular passing like a pro. I'm the. perfect competitors and all that is all. that stepping on me that's where you. took your fall. I stay close to mine like she turn the. tough [ __ ] undercover the. mother. I love you and I love you cuz. you're a sweet [ __ ] a crazy.

like ice cream. I spook you my music. loose dip and I'm not a booster. So what. you got to say? It's not where it's. born. I got it going once. a. little.

The blues never goes out of style. Never. What do you What do you say? Like. a uh like a what you say? Like ice. cream. I'll scoop you. Yeah. It's so clever. And like Oh, he was so. clever. It was so clever. There was. comedy in in his lyrics, you know? It. was just It was power. I met his aunt on. the train. Really? Yeah, we did. And. like Jaydon knew who she was cuz he he. ran the he was running the trains before. I was. And like he knew all those people. because he'd been working it so hard. And it was like it was crazy some of the.

people that we'd come in like who you. come in contact with on those subway. cars. You know what I It's like I saw. Jake Gyllenhaal on the train one day and. then some other day on the, you know, six train it'd be like the NBA. commissioner and [ __ ] gave us a $100. bill. Wow. You know, it's like to me. that's like that's all that's that's all. it is. You know, it's like whatever the. circuit is, it's like putting yourself. out there. And when you go out in. public, man, and when you go out in. public and you put yourself out there. and you really do that, that's that's a.

transformation. That's a metamorphosis, you know, for anybody. For anybody. Yeah. Yeah. It's It's just undeniable. It's the most authentic form of. performance ever, you know. That's not. your audience. They don't know you. You. You have to earn it. You have to You. have to break through. Yep. You have to. break through. It has to It has to hit. Yeah. It has to be real. So, all I've. been doing is swinging at him the whole. time, Joe. Yeah, man. Well, you're. killing it. They used to call Sometimes. they call me the Muhammad Ali of country.

music. That's too good a compliment, but I I. like it. But there's, you know, that's. the only way you make Charlie Crockett. You got to I mean, your story is is. important for people to hear because. it's the only way you make someone like. you. You know, you don't make someone. like you in a mall. You don't make. someone like you with a bunch of. executives making these decisions based. on what they think is going to be. popular. Man, it was crazy. They were. doing that [ __ ] you'd think they would. do. So this woman Nell Mulddere saw us.

in the R train and she was in the Sony. system and managing artists and like. kind of the star maker that pop machine. of like 2010 2011. So they bring us up. into the offices in uh Korea Town, right? and like on the edge of Hell's. Kitchen there. And her office was off. the side of this Sony Legacy uh like. kind of catalog room because at the time. she was married to Rob Santos, one of.

the guys at Sony Legacy, and she had so. she had this little office off the side. of the like library thing, whatever. and. she brings us in there. and they're putting us in front of these. like computer screens and showing us. like gym class heroes and the Gorillas. and Odd Future and Janelle Monae and. like all the doing these focus group. training things, you know, and where. they're going to plug you in to the. thing. And it was like what was so.

difficult about it for me? I'm I'm not. they didn't do anything wrong. You know, we were young, desperate men playing in. public transit, you know, you Yeah. be. careful what you ask for, you know. And. yeah, I was mad for a long time, but. I've been eating off that plate forever. because it I realized, man, I was like, man, if you don't know what you want, if. you don't know where you're going, if. you don't know what you're selling, they're going to sell it for you. Yes. You know what I mean? It doesn't matter. who it is. Yes. It's not their fault. That's what they do. No, I knew that was. the best thing that could have happened.

to me is cuz like I believed that there. was some deal. I wasn't on the trains. for it, but I knew we'd find it. I. really did. I had I had it was fate. It. was fate. And like, you know, it's that. whole thing like I got there, it fell. apart quick. It wrecked me, man. And I. got that's when I found that's when I. got off the street and I went back to. California, started working on the Ganja. farms because I realized, you know, like. Big L said or whatever, you know, I was. going to get street struck. You know, you can't stay out there forever. You. really can't, right? And uh.

that's when, you know, that's when I. looked at that's when I looked at it and. it's like, man, okay, what what am I. willing to sell? you know, like what. what is Charlie Crockett willing to. sell? And I think that that's stronger. than playing it cool, right? And letting. somebody else figure it out for you, you. know? That's where it that's where it it.

it gets dangerous, you know? And so it's. like I know a lot of these guys in the. business, they're like, "Oh man, you. know, I don't pay attention to the. business [ __ ] and all type of stuff.". Man, you're crazy for that. cuz all like. I don't care if it was Willie Nelson or. James Brown, they were poorer than you. They both picked cotton and they learned. the business because they had to. So. someone gave me that [ __ ] Well, you. need to understand the business if. you're in the business. If you don't. understand it, you'll be taken over by. it. There's no doubt. Even if they got. you on top. Yeah. And then you have to. have autonomy. You have to have you have.

to this personal sense of self or you. could avoid the influence. You have to. be able to just stick to your guns. And. that's the hard part, right? Because. then they dangle that carrot in front of. you. Man, that carrot is juicy. Especially if you've been out in the. street. It's right there. Oh, it's right. there. It's right there and it's so. juicy. And a lot of people bite it. A lot of. people bite it and then they don't want. it anymore and then they don't know how. to be authentic. Were you Were you Were.

you dealing with the like in the on that. circuit? Because I mean I know you're a. comedian and you I know you also like. got into the like dealing with the. network TV shows and all that kind of. stuff. Like did did anybody ever [ __ ]. get you pretty good? Well, I got lucky. in that I got on television so early and. I didn't want to be on television. It. wasn't something that I wanted. Yeah. But they offered me so much money to be. on TV. I was like what? Okay. But I kept.

growing and doing my comedy at the. comedy store and that was the most. important thing that I just kept doing. comedy and then the money was just like. [ __ ] you money. So it's like because I. had the [ __ ] you money I could kind of. be myself. Yeah. And you know there was. a lot of temptation like I remember the. producers of Fear Factor like what are. you doing? Like so because some of my. comedy was just out there like you know. this get you in trouble this people. going to this is not network television. comedy. I was like well then I won't do. network television anymore. Like once I. had a certain amount in the bank, I was.

like, "All right, this is more money. than I ever thought I'd ever have in my. whole [ __ ] life." And I never thought. I'd ever be wealthy and then all of a. sudden I have money. So if you have [ __ ]. you money and you don't say [ __ ] you, what's the point? What's No one's going. to say [ __ ] you then. If you're going to. be a prisoner, right, to that money, like you're the like everybody says, "Man, that just afraid to be you. Afraid. to be yourself." Like that's the only. time you can really do it is when you. have, you know, it's like the universe. gives you this gift and what is the the.

gift is the gift of freedom and you have. to choose to either accept it and take. it and and run with it or be captured by. it and then want more and more and more. forever forever and there's no end. You. know, we were talking about my friend. Brian has this friend who's worth $3. billion and he feels poor because his. friend is worth 80. You know how crazy. that is? M think how crazy that is. Like. this guy's just constantly chasing to. keep up with his friend who's worth 80. billion cuz he's got three. Yep. That's.

how it works. You could get trapped and. then you know still keeping up with the. Joneses. Yeah. You got a hit show. You. want to hit movie. You got to hit movie. You want to be I want to have a Grammy. I want to start singing. I you know you. start getting crazy. You start you just. you chase that demon that demon of. success that just lures you deeper and. deeper into hell. And the next thing you. know, you you don't even know who you. are. No one knows who you are. And if. you don't know who you are, they'll. decide. They'll decide who you are. They'll sell you. They'll sell you as a. thing. You know, you know what's crazy.

about the music business? The manager. is in many cases the most powerful. and the least regulated. You know, I think that's what's wild. about the music business. There's. basically no regulation. You know what I. mean? Yeah. It's like I think that's. what makes people say it's, you know, the shadyiest business. I don't think. it's the shadyiest business, but a guy. told me that in New York, actually, when.

I got caught up in the Sony thing with. the train robbers deal y'all were. showing on the screen. Uh, a lot of guys. were a lot of people were trying to sign. us. Actually, the guys at ANR Wuang, like, uh, DJ Scottfree and Matty C, they. were trying to get us into a deal. um. Citizen Cope had a deal on the table and. all that [ __ ] and it was like um. he was the one that that told me that he. was like man [ __ ] what you heard this is. the shadyiest business. Now I had come.

from a background of dealing with some. pretty crazy [ __ ] in Texas, you know, and with everything. Um, but even in. that business, like people that are, if. you're trying to play the stock market. or or whatever, Wall Street, it's a. corrupt business and it it is really. [ __ ] up, but it's highly regulated com. by com I mean, compared to the music. business, right? You know what I mean? Right. And you're dealing in like. you're, you know, it's the the stock. exchange there. It's like it's like. you're like it's like they're like. dealing in culture,

cultural power, right? Cultural wars, whatever you want to call it. It's and. there's no there's just very very little. regulation and a lot of power man. It's. you know so much power and influence and. the people that make the most money the. people that don't even create the art. cuz like you talking about like let's. say you got a old boy's got his buddy. it's worth 80 billion or whatever still. doesn't make you a it doesn't make you a. star. Right. Right. It's still not fame. actually. That's what's crazy. You know. I have a friend who's a billionaire who.

desperately wants to be famous. That's. what I Well, I think it seems like a lot. of them want to be. They do because. that's the thing they don't have, right? They have everything else. You can't. exactly buy that. They can't. Well, you. you kind of can kind of But then it. turns on you. Yeah. That's what Yeah. It. turns on you. Yeah. To be the the rich. guy like then you're watching those. I. mean, I see some of that stuff playing. I don't like, man, I don't want nothing. to do with that. Nothing. Look what they. did to Elon. Yeah. You don't want that. Yeah. It's it's a harsh world because. there's no sympathy for you. You know,

you're the wealthy oligarch. Oh, and you. want everybody looking at you, right? Yeah. And then all of a sudden, they're. looking at you. Yeah. Just got nervous. They got you. under that eye of Sauron. They're trying. to find all your flaws and everybody's. got them. That's why I got this little. bird right here. It tells me tells me. all the secrets. What is that bird? I. didn't know what this was when I bought. it. Right. This is This is Horus, right? Oh, wow. And I just I found it in this. place. this this found items place about.

10 years ago and I just liked it. actually. I just thought I thought it. was native, right? I didn't realize it. was like Egyptian and I've always liked. this one because I felt like it was a. little bit of both. Um, and I I didn't. know anything about it at first. Um, but. the reason I never take it off anymore. is like when I started like reading. about like what it meant to the. Egyptians was that it meant like safe. passage as you journey through this. world. and get ready to go on to the next one.

You know what I mean? And protect you. against evil, protect you um in, you. know, and for health and happiness. M. they called it initiation. So it makes a. lot of people tie it to stupid [ __ ] like. uh you know Illuminati and all that kind. of stuff but I mean it's just a it's. just a Thunderbird. Well, you know the. eye of Horus is essentially the pineal. gland where the seat of the soul where. the brain produces dimethylryptamine.

That's the eye of Horus. Have you ever. seen the image of the eye of Horus next. to the pineal gland? I'm not sure. Maybe. I have but I'm I'm ignorant. I didn't. the the ancient what's what's pineal. gland? The pineal gland is a it's a. gland that's in the center of your. brain. It's essentially the third eye. In reptiles, it actually has a retina. and a lens. Wow. Or a cornea and a lens. And it's it's where they now they. believe that DMT is actually produced by. the entire brain. It's also produced by.

the liver and the lungs, but it's like. the most spiritual of all the. psychedelics. And they believe that the. Egyptians had some sort of they you know. there's so little understood about truly. ancient Egypt. But look at that. Look. what it looks like. I mean the the eye of Horus essentially. is it's a diagram of the pineal gland. which is kind of crazy. It's kind of. crazy when you see it that way. Wow. Because they they knew things and we.

don't know what they knew. We don't. understand how they built the pyramids. We don't understand how old they are. There's so much speculation about the. true age of that civilization. Figuring. out like how they harnessed energy and. all that stuff. We have no idea. We have. no idea. I mean, there's there's this. group of scientists that believe that. there's structures under the pyramids. that go 2 km deep into the earth. And. and there's a lot of controversy about. that, but these guys are they've. multiple readings of these things and. they're pretty sure that they're. accurate. And they they've been accurate. with other things like other temples.

that are underground that are 50 ft. underground. They've mapped those things. out with the same technology. So there's. a precedent to it. These people knew. things and we don't understand how they. knew it or what they knew. And we don't. know if the people that lived in ancient. Egypt that we considered ancient Egypt. like, you know, 2,000 BC. We don't know. if they found those structures or if. those people built those structures. There's so much weirdness with Egypt. because the construction is so beyond. anything else that exists anywhere on.

Earth and especially when you're dealing. with 4,500 plus years ago. 4,500 years. ago is the conventional estimations. But there's a lot of these heretic. archaeologists that think, "No, it's. this is a lot older than that." I mean, there's a king's list that goes back. 30,000. like 30,000 years. Yeah. I mean, this it. sounds nuts to people that want to have. this conventional dating of the, you. know, the dawn of civilization being. about 6,000 years ago, but there's a lot.

of evidence that that's not accurate. There's a lot. And I think the most. profound evidence is just the vastness. of the Egyptian Empire and what what. they just the vastness of the the. construction, the way they were able to. bring these stones from 500 miles away. through the mountains that are 80 tons. How how did they cut them perfectly? How. did they put them 120 feet in the air. and put them in the ceiling? Like what. what the [ __ ] was going on then? What.

the [ __ ] was going on with people were. supposedly just getting out of hunter. and gathering? I mean, this is like the. emergence. Like a couple thousand years. earlier, we're supposed to be like using. stone tools and throwing them at. animals. And now you have these people. that build this immense structure that's. perfectly aligned. A true north, south, east, and west has 2,300,000 stones in. it. What? It's aligned with Orion stars. The stars in the Orion belt. Like what? Maybe the maybe what happened was is.

AI took them down too. It might be way. way back. It might be. I mean, it's. back. I'm just saying, right? It could. be. It could stuff could be I forget who. said that, but it's like I mean, I'm all. for I'm all for science, but in the end. of the day, you know, no matter what we. think we know, it's still just like a. you know, it's like a flame in a dark. night, you know. There's there's so much. out there beyond beyond what we can see, you know. So I always I always kind of.

thought that myself. I mean it's a basic. thing nowadays, you know, but I was like. a kid, you know, a lot of people have. had this thought, but it's like you're. always like looking up here in the stars. and it's like if they're saying that the. stars are basically infinite, then it's. infinite possibility for other planets. with life on it, which basically is a. certainty, right? It's basically a. certainty. It's a certainty. Yeah, it's. basically certainty. And the more we. explore in the known universe, the more. we understand that it's much more likely. that this is not an anomaly, that.

there's many, many planets out there. Who knows? Maybe an infinite number that. have life. So, who knows what was going. on with those Egyptians? Well, we don't. know how long ago they did this. You. know, there's there's just so much. speculation. Well, in the the version of. Egypt that we're taught about, it was. like just the latest stage of it. Oh, yeah. Like I read where there was just. there it went on for so many thousands. of years and there was this whole. evolution of those kingdoms. I'm talking. about throughout Africa. Y well all the.

subsaharan area all of that too. That's. where they believe that Atlantis was. I. mean there's this thing called the. reshot structure that there's again. these heretic archaeologists believe was. the site of Atlantis. it. I mean, the. the South Saharan the Saharan sub. subsaharan Africa was a rich rainforest. thousands of years ago. There's whale. bones. They find whale bones in the. Saharan desert. That's crazy. It's. [ __ ] madness, man. Like, the history. of Earth is so confusing. Like Graham.

Hancock says it best. We're a species. with amnesia, you know? And that's. what's wild about all this. We don't. remember anything. Well, we definitely. don't remember [ __ ] from 20,000 years. ago. It's all just speculation. And you. know, and people have been in this form, you know, the form of homo sapiens now. for 300 plus thousand years. Like, who. knows how long? And who knows where they. learn this stuff from? I mean, who knows. if they learned this stuff from. visitors? We don't know. We don't know.

I mean, if we did get visited 20,000, 30,000 years ago, what what evidence. would be left, you know, and are we. being visited now? Well, we're about to. find out because if this [ __ ] keeps. popping off with Israel and Iran and. they start going nuclear, you know, that. was the only the the the the great hope. of the people that really believe in. aliens is that what they're watching. over us is to make sure we don't [ __ ]. everything up. That we're so close to. emerging as a type one civilization. We're to so close to getting out of this. barbaric, you know, territorial apes.

with thermonuclear weapons. We're we're. so close to passing this stage that. we're in right now as long as we don't. [ __ ] it up. And who knows how many times. people might have [ __ ] it up in the. past that I mean that might be what. we're looking at when we're looking at. ancient Egypt. There might be the. remnants and there's also natural. disasters. Yeah. And that's all I meant. by AI. Yeah. I mean it could be our. greatest natural disaster. You get there. and but I like your there's a it's a. very positive outlook though when you're.

talking about getting to the next Yeah. What' you call it? Type what you call. type one civilization. What does that. mean? Okay, there's there's there's type. one, type two, and type three. civilizations. And um I don't remember. who was the one who formulated this. It. might have been Sean. Um Jamie, you pull. it up so I don't [ __ ] this up, but. Jamie, it's essentially our Here it is. type one civilization known as a. planetary civilization defined by our.

cardev scale as the one that's harnessed. and controls all available energy on its. planet. This includes utilizing all. forms of energy from sources like solar, wind, geothermal, and potentially even. harnessing nuclear fusion. A type one. civilization is also characterized by a. global technologically advanced society. with a high degree of interconnectedness. and the ability to manage planetary. scale resources and weather. So, we're. on the way to that. And AI in best case. scenario helps us achieve that. And.

we're we're close. We're probably a lot. closer to that than we think. Type two. civilization is stellar, meaning we. populate other planets. Type three is. galactic. We we populate the cosmos and. we we explore the cosmos. Wow. We're on. our way to that. And this it's. inevitable. If we used to live in caves. and now, you know, we fly in hypersonic. jets, this is what's coming. And it's.

whether or not we [ __ ] it up along the. way. That was beam me up, man. We should probably end on that. Charlie. Crockett, you're the man. I appreciate. you, brother. Thank you very much for. being here, man. Pleasure is mine, man. Texas. forever. Thank you, sir. Very much, man. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Um, tell everybody where they can find all. your [ __ ] Um, do you have a social. media? Yeah, but you don't got to do all. that. Okay. I mean, it's Charlie. Crockett. Charlie with an ey like.

Charlie Pride. That's it. Crockett with. two T's. Just like Davey. That's all. thing you need to know. That's it. All. right. Thank you. Bye, everybody. [Music].