Joe Rogan Experience #2330 - Bono

Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe. Rogan Experience. Train by day. Joe. Rogan podcast by night. All day. Oh, I [ __ ] loved the film. It was. really great. You saw it? Watched it. last night. Yeah. It was cool, too, because I always feel special when I got. to enter in the password because I know. that nobody else has seen it yet. You. know, I got to enter in the email and. the password and I watched it and I. screen mirrored it on the TV. It was. great, man. And it's it was so uh like.

almost like a fever dream. It was wild. like the way you set it up. All black. and white. You get past the first three. minutes. I could even my own mates are. like, "Oh, don't do that.". It's like wow. And it is like a fever. dream. Yes. That opening. But that. really happened to me. So yeah, it was. great, man. It's great. And it's also. like I love the way you did it. Like you. played the beginning of some songs and. you talked about the origin of the. songs. The thing that I have a hard time. believing though is that you weren't a. good singer when you were young. Well,

you know, punk rock, you're a bit of a. shout. You know, that's really what you. do. You just get up there and shout. You. I'm shouting at God. I'm shouting at. everyone. I'm shouting at the band. That. scene in the in when we're doing I will. follow. Yeah, that's really true. So, I'm there and we're improvising this. song that becomes I will follow. If you. walk away, walk away, walk away. And. it's like this. Wow. We're trying to get. some just do something original and. we're really ripping off the irony is.

we're really ripping off Public Image. Limited. This Johnny Rotten became John. Leiden again for this band called Public. Image Limited back in the late '7s. And. I'm singing about, you know, it's a. suicide note really. And I'm singing. about this and they're saying like, "What's it about?" And I said, "I think. it's this it's this guy who's going to. follow somebody into the grave. You. know, they're going to It's I think it's. about a It's It's a It's a child. following their mother, missing them so. much that he'll follow them into the.

grave. Whoa. And then we realize that. our our our rehearsal room, the little. yellow house, is beside the cemetery. where my mother is buried. And I have. never visited her once or talked about. her once. And we're we've been. rehearsing there for months. And it's. funny, you know, you can deny somebody. in conversation, you can deny somebody. to yourself, but in the songs, all that. [ __ ] comes out. Wow. Wow. Yeah. But.

thank you for watching it. That's That's. I loved it. Thank you. It It was such an. interesting way you put it all together. I've never seen anybody do that like. that. like you did. like it's like a documentation of your. career but in this like very unique way. with like talking about things and. explaining these moments and then the. music plays. It's and it's all black and. white. It was really cool. Yeah, there's. a there's a sort.

of black and white lends it a kind of. clarity. I did this series of shows in. the the Beacon uh theater in New York. and and it was going so well we thought. we should record it. I will tell you the. night before we opened our show in New. York, my Mrs. Ally said, "I don't think you should do. this. Just please please do not do this. to yourself in front of, you know, a New.

York crowd. Cancel it now. do what most. people do on a book tour, get somebody. to interview them and just they'll come. anyway. Everyone will be happy. And I. don't know, I just went for once. I I. didn't take her sage advice. And I I did. it. And the difference was with an. audience, it was funny. And she was. like, "Oh, that's the bit I didn't get. in the rehearsals. It's funny." Oh. So, what was she thinking? It was I thought. it was dull, self-indulgent. Here you.

are. I mean all these things are a. version of let me here's another great. thing about me. No, I I mean it is a I. was calling it a memewir me what I wrote. myself. It's the memoir and it is look. there's something narcissistic and but. it's it's your material you know that's. what you get your you know your it's not. just your body your psychology is the. canvas and you know I grew up John. Lennon you know the Beatles were. everything for me and you know John.

Lennon made a sort of performance art. out of his wedding to Yoko and he did a. bed in for peace and he was ready to. look ridiculous for peace and you know I. do ridiculous is quite well, I'm told. So, that was my definition, you know, of. of art really. Yeah. Was to just just go. out there. But the thing that being in. you two, it was just given me. everything took away, if it took away.

anything, was, you know, people don't. come along to our shows for a belly. laugh. You know what I mean? Right. Right. So, as a comedian, you understand that, you know, it's it's. like I, you know, I wrote this line. I came out. of nowhere. I haven't put it in a song. yet, I don't think. But, you know, I. think it's um laughter is the evidence. of freedom. And I don't talk I don't. trust people talk about freedom now. I. want people to be free. If you are if. you talk be it then be it. Yeah. And and.

so I wanted to be that on stage. I. wanted to be loose. I wanted to be. myself. I wanted to own up to the. ridiculousness of my life. As I've just. explained, the madness of my family, but. turns out it's everyone's family is a. little opera. And it is a bit of a soap. opera, but it's also also a a real. opera. These are big feelings. you know,

you're going after your dad like you're. like a young what, you know, elk is a. romantic word for it, but it's, you. know, you're just taking them on. Yeah. And this poor man is just he's lost his. his wife. He's trying to bring up two. kids. I'm just an obnoxious kind. of thing who some somehow. psychologically blames him for the death. of my mother. Because as Jim Sheran says. to me, it doesn't have to be actually.

true to be psychologically. true. And that kids feel all these. feelings, you know, they don't have to. be logical. And and I went after my dad. and. I by playing him every night in in the. Beacon Theater and around the world, I. actually learned. to to love him. Uh, I learned to like. him. Actually, I always loved him, but I. learned to like him. That was He made me. laugh more. So, I got humor. Humor was.

the gift from that show. And And the. humor was evident with the audience. there. Yeah. But not evident when my business. came, which is why she wanted to pull. the plug. Well, rehearsals are hard. It's also hard when someone is too close. to you. They're there with you every. day. Like this is true with comedy as well. Like if someone sees your act too many. times, like if someone's traveling with.

you, like if my wife went to see my. shows all the time, there's parts of it. she'd be like, "Oh, don't do that. Oh, don't do this. Oh, like that's not like. you get too close to it. Like she's too. close to you." But to see it with fresh. eyes, like to see it in front of that. audience, the joy that they have when. the music starts playing, when some of. the songs that they love, it's amazing. Like you could feel it in the show. It's. like the the pure joy when they get so. cuz the people that came to see it were. hardcore fans. Well, the one what.

happened was Andrew Dominic, Australian. director, and he did some of the the the. shots without any audience, just he. cleared them out on a day off. And then. some of them came in which were hardcore. fans as you say. And that was in a way. that was that was that was the most. terrifying. Um because I as a. performer I'm drawn to spontaneous acts.

That's what when we started out as a. band, I was attracted to performers who. I thought might leave the stage, right, and follow me home, mug me or, you know, you know, tell my fortune or, you know, whatever. Wild people. Well, just Yeah. I mean, and I'm still attract Iggy Pop. when I was growing up was the, you know, Patty Smith. I Patty Smith used to enter. the stage elbowing her way through the.

crowd. Myself and Larry Mullen, drummer. in two. We we left stage one night in a. like when we were like 21 20 years old, elbing our way through through the crowd. to get out. Just got into a taxi in. London, [ __ ] off and and we felt a. liberation. You breaking the fourth wall. is been everything for our bands. trying. to smash it by surfing it. Um, you know, by by jumping into the crowd. I had the.

um preposterous moment of going into a. crowd in the in Los Angeles, I forget, the forum or somewhere like. that with the white flag, right? The. nonviolent white flag. the same flag. that I'm still on about the flag of. surrender right in that. show but back then I'm 23 or whatever. and I'm going into the crowd and I see. people who are you know pulling at me.

and all that and next thing I I'm. throwing a punch somebody in our own in. our own audience that's how much. nonviolence meant to me you that you. know but I I'm a I'm attracted to feral. performers I suppose there's a word for. it. It's just it's it's you're in it and. you're not fully in control of it, right? And Mark Ryland is a great one. Daniel D. Lewis walked off stage one.

night, saw a ghost of his father rumor. had it when he was playing Hamlet. But. yeah, so having the crowd in who knew. what was going to happen, that unnerves. me a bit because I how do I surprise. them? Turns out by making I I became a. sitdown comic. Is that if you're a. stand-up for a minute a minute? I was a. sit down comedian. Well, what you were. doing and what I think what you're.

saying that you're attracted to is. something that's not contrived. Something that's pure. It could be. messy. Could be wild. It could be, you. know, Patty Smith elbowing people or you. running through the crowds. There's it's. it's real. And there's so much in this. world that's not real. There's so much. that's manufactured. There's so much. that's produced and run through a focus. group. And there's so there's so much. that doesn't resonate like you don't. feel it as a piece of art. You don't. feel it as like a real person pouring.

out their emotions and their soul. But. great music, you feel it. It gets into. you. It gets into your cells. You know, it's a and no one can figure out how it. works or why it works or why this does. and this doesn't and why does Johnny. Cash have such a [ __ ] cool voice. Like it's what is it? What what is it? Like but that there's something about. real that's just it's like a vitamin. It's like going out in the sun when it's. been raining like ah like you you soak.

it in. Yeah, it is. You know, I mean, you can there's pretentious ways to. describe and then people say it's we we. first sang to each other before we. spoke, you know, like like bird song. I. don't know who said that. It's probably. on drugs, but but could have been a. scientist and um anthropology might. suggest we certainly the goats on you go. back to Greek tragedy, you had a drum. and a voice. So, it's very primal. Yeah.

And and there is it is the language of. the spirit. It we. we it it is somehow there is worship. involved whether it's God, nature, money, a extraordinary woman has just. walked across the street. But it seems. to be that music is where we are. creatures of.

uh awe. Yes. And and wonder and and and. you know, you mentioned Johnny. Cash, I had I had the blessing in my. life of of getting to know him. And as a. believer, I don't know if you know, I. I'm a believer. I'm I'm just not a very. good one. But he there was no not a. pious bone in his body. And and I. learned that about the company he would.

choose. He didn't like he he got nervous. around people who were too. self-righteous. And he had this huge. spirit in him, you know, prayerful. spirit. Myself and Adam Clayton were. were um driving through America, I think. around the time of the Joshua Tree, and I'd met Johnny couple years. He. said, you know, I found out where he. where he lived. He had a zoo in. Nashville. He had a house in Nashville. And we go into to to meet June and his.

Mrs. and and Johnny. And and he shows us. this table's filled with plates of like. I'm like, "Wow, we're coming. We're just. the two of us." She said, "No, honey, that's my cookbook. I'm just doing a. photo shoot for my cookbook. We're in. here, you know, we're having a So, we go. into their kitchen and we sat there, myself and Adam, and uh. and Johnny goes, "Shall shall we pray?".

And uh Adam's wasn't a praying type at. that at that time, but he was like, "It's Johnny Cash." So, you know, you. have to pray. We all held hands, whatever. And Johnny Cash made this. beautiful poetic blessing. And I I just. thought like, wow, of course he is. touched. And then he just turned to Adam. and just goes, "Sure miss the drugs. though." And Adam. just fell in love with him, you know,

because he couldn't be pious, right? He. just he had to be himself. Yeah. Um. years later, if it's years later and we. really. Oh, wow. There you go. Oh, that's so Oh. my god. There it is. That's Adam there. Yeah. Yeah. He looks like he might have. had a few tequilas and and I don't know, but Oh, wow. And I'm giving it the arty. poetic face. I am a p like you are. And.

um I. call I heard I heard he was. um I heard he was in trouble. He was was. very. ill years later than this. And I called. uh I called up. and and June answered the phone. Excuse. the poor Texas accent, all you Texans. out there. But she was like, or.

Nashville in her case. She was like, "Oh, Bo, wow. Thank you for calling. It's so good to hear from you. How's. Dublin? How's Alley? How's the. Burlington? This is a hotel, right?" And. I'm like, "Great." and we're talking, you know, phrases with with uh with. June. She said, "What's going on with. this?" And I'm going, "What's going on?". I said, "Look," eventually I said, "Look, June, I'm just I'm just calling. because I heard John wasn't well and I. just I just want you wanted him to know.

and that we're thinking about him." She. said, "Oh, honey, we're in bed. He's. right beside me." And he hands me the. phone or she hands him the phone. He. goes, "Sorry about that. And I'm fine. And uh and bless her. Um. actually June passed away first. and and Johnny called Rick Rubin and. those American recordings were were a.

result of a conversation he had with. Rick Rubin where he said, "Please will. you work with me because if you don't, I. will die." Wow. And that's what if you. hear those American recordings. um amazing version of 9in nails um hurt. hurt did a version of one also. to pesh mode's personal Jesus I mean. it's just what a voice. are you a fan of of of of Johnny Cash. what's what's your I used to have a dog. named Johnny Cash.

does the dog bite no he's not anymore. he's dead he was he didn't bite when he. was alive he was a nice dog it's just. have I had a habit of naming my dogs. after famous singers. Wow. We have a dog. called Lemie. Oh, wow. Named after Lei. from Mother. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. It's a girl though. I think she resents. it. Yeah. I had a dog named Frank Sinatra. and uh Marshall is named after Eminem. Oh man. Well, they're two incredible.

people. Um don't get me started on on. Frank Sinatra because um How long is. this, by the way? The as long as we want. to go. Well, no, because why? Well, just. Frank, if there's two questions, one of. them shouldn't be Frank Sinatra because. I I just I can go on and on on I learned. so much from him and I got to know him. and as bizarre as that sounds, um he's such a name dropper, Frank. Um, no, but uh I did.

and probably if you're interested in. singing, I could tell you one miracle. that I learned from Frank Sinatra, which. is a version of of my. way and the original version, you know, it's a boast and years later he sang it. and I have a copy of it. It's. um and Pavarati stars in the film as you. know I I play him for for a moment but.

it's a version of my way with I mean. Pavarati is the greatest singer on earth. but shouldn't sing in English friends I. do it now you don't want you don't want. that and so I have a version of it with. without the greatest singer in the. history of the world Pavarati on it it's. just Frank. singing 20 years after he'd sung My Way. as a boast. Same key, same text, same.

arrangement and now it's an apology. Wow. And that's a that's a thing about. singing and Johnny Cash had that and you. know I I I wish I aspired to the place. when my voice to try and answer your. first question when I become a singer. that can do that. Sinatra, most people. don't realize, had a completely. different voice when he was younger. His. voice when he was younger, was very. high-pitched and beautiful and had so.

much flexibility to it and so much tone. And then probably all the cigarettes and. Jack Daniels over the years sort of. hardened his voice. M skinny kid. He he. used to he used to swim underwater to ex. to get his lung expanded so he could get. those bigger bigger bigger. Yeah. And we. have his mug shot out there. He got. arrested. He was like 125 pounds. Wow. Yeah. He got arrested for um what was.

the term this seduction? I think it was. seduction. I think he seduced a married. woman. Yeah. Oh my lord. Yeah. There he. is. Oh, look at that. Well, he said I'm. the only He said you're the only I don't. know if he said cat. He said I certainly. didn't say dude. He said you're the only. something with a who wears an earring. that I'm ever going to. like. You're the only cat with an. earring that I'm never going to. And and.

I did I had a if we're going to talk. about singers, you have to talk about. Sinatra. I had extraordinary times with. him. Um, he used to send us sent me. gifts every year. I have a gold and. sapphire Cartier watch he sent me. Oh, wow. With with Francis Albert on the, you know, got. um just every year he would send stuff. And because we did a a duet together on. his first duets album, I've got you got. you under my skin. Um although our we.

had a our management received I hope. this is not I'm not being I'm in awe of. Japan so don't please don't take this as. a as a as a as a as a as a cruel joke. but we did get from a a um it was a it. was a fax back then from Nip on EMI. saying we hear that Bono has done a duet. with a Mr. Frank Sonalta called I've Got. You Under My Chicken. And that's just.

the great Austin translation the great. surrealist anthem of all time. Um but yeah, for me that was a an. unusual relationship and I if I asked. myself. why I would go after. these great singers that perhaps people. of my own generation had moved on from. but I hadn't.

There was a part of me that wanted the. blessing of an of the older generation. and probably the male. I didn't really. by now the bit of age I realized I. didn't have the sense to go after the. same with women but I was looking for my. father in them you know whether it was. Willie. Nelson you know whether you know Bob. Dylan Frank Sinatra Pavar all these. people I mean.

I I would they I kind of I became their. students really and the band would be. like yeah And and I'm going yeah and. there's so much for me to learn from. these people. So much for all of us to. learn. These are extraordinary for a. reason. Sinatra. had, you know, incredible sense of humor. and and great timing. He what I learned. from him. was. he he read the the the the text of the.

song like an actor. So he would learn it. as an actor would learn a part. Then he. would on the piano he'd kind of roughly. with his, you know, pianist, he'd figure. out where where to be in the bar and all. of that. And then when he went into the. orchestra to meet them, you know, Nelson. Riddle or whatever, you actually hear. him, you hear Frank Sinatra hearing the.

song in its full arrangement for the. first time as he's singing it. And. that's it's fresh paint, you know. It's. like any painter will tell you that's. just the it's like Francis Bacon. It's. just that first stroke or first touch. football, the great players where the. ball lands at their feet, they don't. stop it and pass it. They they they pass. it as they stop it. It's it's it's. really a very high level of of artistry.

and and he had that. I learned that from. him. I learned lots of other things. I. also tried to drink with him um on a few. occasions which did not work out well uh. for me. Was it surreal when you were a. young man and you were just starting to. achieve success to encounter these. people that were essentially heroes and. be embraced by them and hang around. them? You know, like a lot of people.

feel imposttor syndrome, like they feel. just it's bizarre to be around these. legendary human beings. Like they're. right there. Like I I I still kind of. get weirded out by it. Even when I met. you today, I'm like, "Oh, that's Bono.". Like it's still weird, you know? It's. still weird to meet people that are like. hugely famous. And when you were a young. man, when when you two was just blowing. up, was it strange that the transition. like to accept the fact like this is. where we are. we belong here. But well,

you you. you got it right the first time. There. is a part of you that doesn't think you. belong here, right? And then when you're. younger, you you you're not admitting. that to. yourself. And I have a I have a few. annoying more than a few annoying. aspects depending on who you're talking. to. But if I have an annoying gene, um, part of it is when I'm at my most.

vulnerable, I'm I give it the most. swagger. Ah, so we were playing the. Super Bowl. We were walked on just after. 9/11, big emotional. moment. And. we're you got 8 minutes, whatever, to. switch over. And I've got my ears in. because the only way I'm in touch with. what's with with what's going on. And. we're walking through the crowd. We've.

got the crowd on the on the pitch. I. think one of the first times that was. ever done. and and somebody goes, "Yay!" and they. and I can feel my ear come out. And that. will mean I'm all. fair. And if you look at the film as. I've had to of us walking up to get on. stage, I am giving it so much chin, you. just go, "Who is that obnoxious Irish.

[ __ ] what? Where does he get that. attitude?" Here it is right here. Oh, there it. is. I think I'm singing there. So, it's. if you just go back a little bit, you'll. get the real That's the chin. No, no, just before there. But, but. uh but look, not a care in the world. And that's I mean, [ __ ] is a word. for it. Yeah. Swagger is another word. for it. It's a shield. It's a shield.

Yeah. And as I get. older, I, you know, part of the film was taking. off my armor and just dropping the. sword, dropping the shield, taking it. off. And now in that moment, you wake. up. It's a bit like the dream where. you're naked in front of the whole. school and it's really cold and and. and then you realize yeah your life as.

you are realizing yourself. now oh how did this happen to me and and. how did I get to meet these. extraordinary people and so it's that's. why I wrote the book surrender that's. why I did it but because it was just. starting came to realize when I was. younger I was like yeah you know uh Bob. Dylan once asked us I was 24 and he says. uh he was recording there I was going to.

interview him and he said you want to go. on stage or whatever and do a song and I. said well he said leopard skin pillbox. hats amazing song I said oh look the. lyrics too I and I've been learning to. improvise as a singer and. Um, and I uh I went out on stage and he. said, "Do you know blowing in the wind?". I said, "I probably got that one down.". But I didn't. Oh. And I just walked out. on stage.

and I could see it was at home crowd. Ireland people. Oh, wow. One of ours is. up there with Bob Dylan. Wow. Oh, it's. Bomber. Wow. Okay. And he's gonna sing. Oh my god. He can't. Oh. Oh, exchange. the melody. Well, exchange of words and. you could just see I mean go down in. flames and afterwards I see Bob and I. said look I'm sorry about that just it's. just the way we've been working at the. moment just kind of improvising stuff.

and he was like it's okay you know. everything I I make them up all the time. and he was generous about it nothing's. fixed in time something like that that's. a great Bob Dylan impression. one of my favorite moments in the film. was when your bandmates were concerned. that Pavarati was going to show up with. a camera crew and he showed up with a. camera crew. He did one of the It was just funny. It. was like a It was a really welltimed. moment like and when you said it on. stage it was so well timed because it's.

like here you're honoring this man who's. like this incredible fantastic singer. but your bandmates they've got a good. instinct like this is going to be a big. press hop as well like this is part of. the reason why he wants to do this and. then that's not going to be fun because. it's going to be weird and then boom. Yeah. one of the great one of the great. arm wrestlers um emotional arm wrestlers. of all time. He it's interesting that. there was a generosity there.

which which which he wanted opera. because opera was kind of the punk of. its time. Classical musicians look down. on opera, you know, these are stories. from the street. They're they're too. accessible, you know, and Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. opera was much. rougher and and he instinctively. knew and he was constantly trying to. make relationships that would cross the. divide and and make sort of opera.

popular. And so to the point where yeah. he did he used to call our house and say. you know at first it was with me but. then when he would haunt our housekeeper. Theresa and say like is God at home will. tell God to he's late on the song or you. know he do this kind of carry on and and. I again this these figures in in my life. I knew that I was in, you know, on.

sacred ground when I was near him. I. knew this, but the band, they didn't. have. the didn't have the relationship with. opera. They Well, actually, Edg's dad. was into opera, but my dad was it was it. was I I was. using Luchiano Pavarati to get to my. dad. That was the real thing. And so as. you see in the film, I I play my my.

father just by turning my head. Yeah. And I become him and and and I was. trying to impress him. I'd be in. Finnegan's pub where we'd be sitting not. speaking to each other and and and I'd. try something and I go, "Um, what do you. think about uh Luchiano Pavarati call. him?" And he'd go, "Did he get a wrong. number?" You know, be all that. And and. so yeah, there was an emotional.

throughine because our house was an. opera. Unfortunately, my dad was going. on in Hinn's life was. oporatic. Um but it's also funny. Yeah. Yeah. And it's also this you you are. both celebrating the brilliance of this. incredible singer and also you're you're. taking the piss out of this whole cult. of celebrity thing that comes along with. it. Yeah. And Princess Diana the the. best that thing with your dad and.

Princess Diana was hilarious. So because. Edg's edge is that is is Edg's mother. and father from Wales. So to you know so we're with Pavarati in. modern I think it was and and he's so. the princess of Wales is meeting the. great tenor and he is offered to meet. you know anyone who wants you know Ed's. family because they're from Wales to. meet the princess of Wales and he says.

to me look do do does your dad want to. go and I of course know the reason I. know I I know the answer and the reason. for the answer, but he says, "Well, just. just ask him." So, I ask him. I just go, "Dah, listen. You wouldn't want to uh go. meet Lady Dye, you know, the princess.". What? What? H Why would I want to meet a. member of the British royal family? That.

that's like asking me, "Do I want to. meet the winner of the lotto?" And I'm. like, "Okay, got it. Got it. Got it.". And then later she comes into our. dressing room and melts him just by. reaching her hand at how do you do? And. he's like, "Oh, very well. Thank you." Uh um and as. I say, eight 800 years of oppression.

gone in a second. And if you wonder. about um the reasoning for having a. royal family and a lot of Irish people. do there I I I would say is that's the. reason right the weight of it the weight. of it overcame him. Yeah. Yeah. It's a. very bizarre relationship though you. know like I'm one quarter Irish and I. the relationship between Ireland and. United Kingdom and England and it's like. it's it's complicated. Were you were.

you I've read that you got into martial. arts because you felt picked on at some. point. Is that true? Yes. Yeah. So, you. don't like bullies? No. No. No. I don't. like that at all. It's the weakest. inclination of the human spirit, you. know, to to pick on the weak. It's it's. terrible. It's a it's a terrible. instinct that humans have from probably. from the time where you had to ostracize.

weak people because you lived in a tribe. of people barely surviving and you. couldn't tolerate any weak links in the. chain. I mean that's essentially. probably where it came from. It probably. came out of a survival Darwinian thing. Yes. Where everyone was barbarians and. you had to force people to be the. hardest version possible because. otherwise the genes wouldn't survive. Yeah. And the survival of the fittest. It's. Yeah. which is the world we live in. Yeah. I mean, this is one of the things. that attracts me to Christianity is the.

idea of the first will be last, the last. will be first is so radical. Mhm. And. it's the literally the opposite of the. survival of the fittest. Right. But. America, why I love America is is it has. I mean the British Empire bullied it and. it stood up. I was we were coming here. I was asking someone in the car about. the the Declaration of of Independence. and you know how many Irish signatures. there were. Wasn't that many I can't.

remember whether but they were all. committing treason. They were putting. their lives, they were pledging their. lives, their fortune and their sacred. honor. So America, the very essence of. America is this idea of sticking in to. the bully. Yeah. And and I know America. can be a bully. We all we have our. moments and all and all that, but it's. the essence of who you are and and.

happened again with the the geyser with. the tash. Um. the ger that's a great calling Hitler, you know, but yeah, you know, you. weren't you weren't having it, right? and and I you know as a as a as an. activist which we can talk about later. but the you know I remember going to. it's only a few hours from here but was. in um Lincoln Nebraska and.

um Warren Buffett came to one of our. it's called Heart of America tour. We're. raising awareness on this pandemic, this. AIDS pandemic that has killed just, you. know, 30 million people at this point. And why might America be interested? And. I'm very Irish and very given a lot of. that. And afterwards, I ask the sage of. Omaha for for any. advice. and and he gives me two pieces. of advice,

but probably well the one was don't ask. people to do something simple because. they won't trust you. He said ask them. to do something complicated. What do you. mean by that? Well, I said he said, "What are you asking people to do here?". And I said, "Well, they're I'm asking. them. to we're asking them uh the one campaign. we're we're asking them to send, you. know, a note to their local. congressperson." He said, "No, no, no, no. Don't do that. Too simple. Make them.

do something more difficult and they'll. trust you. Maybe 10 postcards. It's. harder to do." I was like, "Okay." And. anything else? And he he said something. which really changed my life and changed. my conversation with this country of. yours. He said, "Don't appeal to our. conscience of America. Don't do that. Appeal to the greatness of America and. you'll get the job done. Americans want.

to be great. That is true. I think it is. true. And cuz Ireland, we work with. guilt. You know, you can guilt people. It's a lot of countries. You can work. them just, you know, but Americans not. Give them the chance to be the cavalry. Yeah. And they'll I mean Omaha Beach, the heroism of Omaha Beach, the lives. poured out, you know, and to to save. Europe from from tyranny. And that's who.

America is. And you know I I gave you. the Joshua. tree. because I you know it's not just as an. Irishman but probably more. because I as an Irishman fell under the. spell of. America even as kids. you know, coming. here, um, a lot of the cooler bands. would just play the coasts, you know,

the cooler UK bands or European bands, but I wanted I wanted to be all over. America. I mean, we played we opened for. a wet t-shirt competition in in Dallas. We year was this? 81. Uh, 21. Wow. We we. we in a Austin I don't know if if anyone. can remember it was it was it was called. the club club foot. It was a bad pun,

but there was no AC and I remember it. was a tin roof and for Irish people, we. were just being boiled. But I have. really really great memories of just. busing it through this sort of mythical. landscape. You know, there was there's. nowhere nowhere in this country I would. want to fly over, but I do now. you. know, he got the the plane, he had the.

this, but I I just remember. thinking this is there's so many. Americas. Yes. But the the mythology of. America, I was reading, you know, Sam. Shepard. I was reading, you know, on the. road. I was reading, you know, all these. great writers and just opening up my. imagination. That's where the Joshua. Tree came from. And yeah, it's it's it's a it's it's a.

mythology that then can you. imagine I get. to discover that in my. case it's not just a. mythology it I was part of something. that. was. extraordinary. So former governor of of. this. Texas George W. Bush, conservative, starts to lead the world.

in the fight against the AIDS pandemic, the greatest health crisis in 600 years. since the bubanic plague. And I'm like, people say that's impossible. It's just. not going to happen. And he does. and. becomes a bipartisan thing and 26. million lives are saved. So, it's. strange the way you see things. I had. this I wasn't a naive.

[Music]. um sense of America, but it. was a sense that. everything could be possible here, that. there was. somehow the landscape of America was was. a little more magical than than. everywhere else. And that it wasn't just. a country America. It was an idea. Yes. Yeah. I at at its greatest that is what. America is. At its greatest, it's an. idea. And it's an idea that was like I. said was founded with the the concepts.

behind the Declaration of Independence. And those those men who wrote that, the. men who signed the Bill of Rights was. they were so young. They were so young. Some of them were 18 years old at the. time, which is so crazy. Jefferson was. 32 or 33 when he wrote that. He's an old. cajger. I mean, that's wild. And then, by the way, years. later, he's in France. I think he's in. B. And he loved wine. And this emerged. I found this out because I saw a.

signature in in a in a book. I was on. some tour. I like to drink um red wine. And I've never been to Bordeaux in my. life, but I I went with some people who. knew their way around wine, and they. asked me to sign a book in this. particular um uh vineyard, posh kind of. vineyard, but this was across the road. from the big name sort of thing. And I. asked I said, "Can I see the first. book?" There's Thomas Jefferson's name.

in the first book. I thought, "Wow, this. guy's dreaming up America on some very. fancy red plunk." Yeah. Not plunk, actually. some really there's just but. you know I know there's lots of. contradictions. in in America and I know there was. slavery still and that he had slaves and. I. understand but I'm encouraged. that. America perhaps.

doesn't exist yet that it's still been. written if you think about it as a song. you think about it as a piece of music. It's not finished. Right. Right. It's. still being written. They started at. those signatures. Yeah. You and if. you'll let people like me stay, you you. know, we're still, you know, you're. writing it. I'm I'm I'm not writing. I'm. the annoying fan who follows America. into the bathroom and and with the liner.

notes, which are the declaration going, "Didn't you say this here?" And get out. Who followed me into the bathroom? It's. like. but but I yeah I I I like the idea that. it's that this. is far from finished this composition. Yes. And for some people the America. that is available to you and me doesn't. exist yet but it will and it can. And uh.

and yeah, we hope that every election. cycle like this this will be the one. that finally makes us what we truly. believe we are. But the the country is. just so co-opted by this. First of all, you have this genuine issue with the. fact that it's essentially a popularity. contest, right, to see who gets to be. running the government. You have a. popularity contest. It's fueled entirely. by special interests and the. military-industrial complex and. pharmaceutical drug companies and it's.

just it's a it's all it's all the. opposite of of an authentic song, right? The thing about an authentic song where. it makes your [ __ ] goosebumps stand. up. You're like, "God damn." You think. it's an AI come? Can I tell you a story? Um, a long time ago, probably 25 years. ago, I was on mushrooms with a friend of. mine and we were laying on the side of. this hill overlooking this canyon and we.

played in God's country. Oh, wow. And it was just the the the peak of the. mushrooms and the songs, the melody, the. way that song hit, it just it gave me. this insane appreciation for things like. at that m was like this very. unique fusion of the beauty of the music. and the love of the experience. It's. like the mushrooms bring out this like.

loving like communal quality like. happiness and and joy and just lying in. this field looking up at this canyon and. hearing that song. It was like this is. what what music does. It takes these. moments and wherever they're at, it. breaks them through the membrane into. this new place. Like this moment, it. broke through this membrane and brought. me to this. I think about it all the. time. I think about that particular.

experience all the time. We need the. line in that when I'm singing it is um. is a line that doesn't just apply to. America but applies to us personally. um wherever you are is you know we need. new dreams tonight and you can't be. living on we've got we can't be living. on secondhand dreams and that's I think. the renewal.

I think is what what we're all looking. for and and. and yeah it's it's it's something to be. protected and and I not protected That. sounds like it's it's like I think. you're right, though. I But I I think I. I think America is more vulnerable now. than it's ever been. It feels like. America's fallen out of love with the. rest of the world. I don't think the. world wants to fall out of love with.

America. It it just feels like and you. know I've 20 25 years and and I'm just a. tiny cog in I suppose you know people. look at personalities or you know uh. even luminous ones or ones that have. ideas way above their station and think. that will you know that that might. change things but it's social movements. always change things And what happened.

back then with with that Heart of. America tour was was. mindblowing because I learned a few. things that I wasn't expecting. Like I. had grown up with a couple of more than. a few bumps. um with evangelicals, you know, it's. like whoop, you know. It's like you know. how do you you can't approach the. subject of God without metaphor right so.

literalism. is by its nature anti- metaphor and you. know Jesus all we know is that he spoke. in parables because they're not literal. how do you explain these as poetry is. music and I found it really difficult to. be around evangelicals because they were. so you know just literal. And then on that same tour where I met. Warren Buffett, I end up at a college.

called Wheaten College, which is like a. big in Chicago. It's a big evangelical. thing. And they were like they were. really helpful and they were like I. realized that these were kind of and. this is not to be at all dismissive of a. of some incredible people, but it was. like I felt there was there were sort of. narrow-minded. sort of what would I say just sort of.

narrow the the vision if I could just. open the aperture of their vision just a. little bit wider. Yeah. That they could. be the most incredible force for good. because they just worked harder. They. didn't tell lies. They they were just. great people. And I think they they led. part of this movement that that ended up. saving 26 million lives, you know, and. called PEPAR that George Bush started. and Obama.

continued. Then I go to Catholics. I'd. end up in Notre Dame. I had a few. bruises with the Catholics over the. years, too. And I'm meeting these people. and they're like, "No, no, we're we we. we want to we we we believe in the value. of human life and we if we can do this, how much does this cost?" And I'm like, "Well, you know, all of foreign aid is. probably just less than 1% of government.

spending, but the part that keeps people. alive is is half of that." So, it's like. half a percent. Now, it's not my money. It's up to you if you want to do that. But they did. And lots of people came. together. It was priests and punks, you. know, it was the. wildest collection of people and and. just recently like in in the last three. months, and this is not about politics. because I've worked with conservatives, I've worked with liberals. I I don't.

care, you know, I don't have those. I'm. Irish. I don't have a chance to vote. But all of that was torn down without a. heads up, without any notice. because people thought foreign aid was. like 10% of the budget or 20% and it was. doing things that it shouldn't have been. doing. And I'm sure there was some. waste, but I can tell you as a person. who who saw what the United States was.

doing around the world and saw. this this I saw. America display itself at its finest. And I remember being in the Oval Office. with President Bush and and had and. these anti-retroviral drugs. I said, "Paint them red, white, and blue, Mr. President. these are the best. advertisements for America there'll ever. be. And he's looking at me thinking I'm. taking a piss, but I'm not. And he. wasn't, as it turns out. And and he he.

spoke about the the least of these, which is a wild concept. I don't know if. you know this, but it's like. the it's uh it's in Matthew, I think it. is. It's it's. it's the only time that um Jesus speaks. of judgment. It's not like what's going. on in your pants. It's not like what's. going over here or over there. The first. time Jesus Christ speaks. in kind of force of judgment is the way.

we treat the poor, the poorest of the. poor. And he says, "Well, in the way. that you're treating these the least of. of them, the the sick, the blind, the. people who are suffering from. malnutrition, that's how you treat me. I. am. them." And so now when we cut to the. people like you went to Boston.

University, um you taught at Boston. University. I taught martial arts there. Yeah. So, so just recent. report, it's not proven, but the. surveillance enough suggests 300,000. people have already died from just this. cut off, this hard cut of USID. So, there's food rotting. in boats, in warehouses. There is this. this this will will [ __ ] you off. This.

will not you will not be happy. No. American will. But there is I think it's. 50,000 tons of food that are stored in. Djibouti, South Africa, Dubai, and wait. for it, Houston, Texas. And that is. rotting rather than going to Gaza, rather than going to Sudan because the. people who know the codes or for the. warehouse are fired. They're gone. And.

so this I don't know. I just it's and. what do you think? What what what is. what is that? That's that's not America, is it? Well, they're throwing the baby. out with the bath water. Right. Right. This is the problem. The problem is for. sure there have been a lot of. organizations that do tremendous good. all throughout the world. Also, for sure. it was a moneyaundering operation. For. sure there was no oversight. For sure.

billions of dollars are missing. In. fact, trillions that are unaccounted for. that were sent off into various they. they don't even know where because. there's no receipts. The way Elon Musk. described it, he said if any of this was. done by a public company, the company. would be delisted and the executives. would be in prison. But in the United. States, this is standard. When Biden. left office, when it was clear that. Trump won in the 73 days, they spent 93.

billion dollar from the Department of. Energy on just radical loans just. throwing money into places, right? And. there's no no oversight, no receipts. Like the the whole thing is it's there's. a lot of fraud, a lot of money. laundering, but. also we help the world. And when you're. talking about making wells for people in. the Congo to get fresh water, when. you're talking about food and medicine. to places that don't have access, like.

no way that should have been cut out and. that should have been clear before they. make these radical cuts. like there's. got to be a way to keep aid and not have. fraud and you can't have you can't say. we're going to kill everything so that. there's no fraud. But then you're. killing all the good and you're doing it. without letting anybody know it's going. to happen. So no one's it's not like. they had three years to prepare. Let's. build a new infrastructure. Let's make. sure that everything's set up. They. wanted change and they want to change.

quickly. And due to the nature of. American politics, they have about two. years before the midterms, right? So. everything has to get done as quickly as. possible. You have to show a growth in. GDP. You have to show that the economy. is booming again under these ideas. Make. America first, tariffs for the world, bring back American manufacturing, and. this mad rush to do it all as quickly as. possible while cutting out as much waste. as possible. Yeah. But the ironic thing. is even though Elon Musk has proposed. all these things and the Doge committee. has proposed all these things, they've. made no cuts in terms of the budget.

They've cut nothing. They vote against a. tiny part. I mean, if if if it's big. government or whatever, people want to. want to shrink. I I I I I get the. instinct, but this the lifesaving part. It's like the little finger of the. giant, right? Exactly. I mean, and and. I' I've met all these people, and I'm. sure there's there's part of it, you.

know, there's I think about 10% of it. goes to things like governance and, you. know, human rights organizations. You. might say that's political and we. shouldn't be involved in that. And. there's reforms, I imagine, that might. have been necessary, but to have the. reforms, but but to to to destroy to to. vandalize, I mean, it felt like with. glee these life support systems were. being pulled out of the walls. And I was.

I was reading today, you know, is like I. think it's in Christianity today and. they're just talking I think it's called. Christian Relief, one of these. organizations and they're dealing with. malnourished kids. And they are having. the conversation now about we don't have. the funds. We have to choose which child. to pull off the IVs. And it just seems. to me like a kind. of I I I don't know if if evil is a. strong word, too strong a word, but what.

we know about pure evil is it. rejoices. in the deaths, you know, of the. squandering of human life, particularly. children's and suffering. Yeah. It. actually rejoices in it. And and I just, you know, whether it's whether it's. incompetence, whether it's unintended. consequences, it's it's not too late for.

people like I I had conversations with. with with Marco Rubio. He's convinced. people aren't dying yet. It's it's it's. I don't know who's telling him, not. telling him rather, but he his instincts. are correct. He, you know, he wants to. die. He used to wear a one campaign. armband. Americans, no matter what. political color, they just they just. they just you you see them just the size. sort of they just grow in stature when.

they know they're being useful. I had a. truck driver on that same tour. He like. tattoos all over his head and whatever. and he was just saying, "Can I drive? I. heard 50% of all truck drivers in Africa. are going to die. Is that right? Because. of this disease, AIDS. I said, "Yeah.". He said, "Can I give you my number? I. will drive." Like, that's America. And. and yeah, this the bureaucracy, the the. the the pen. pushers. I get it. I get people's.

frustration for it. But but I'm just I. just want to remind. Americans of the size of their country. And it's and I'm not talking about the. geography, the impact. I'm just the the. the size of the idea, the the the the. you know, it's just it's it's just an. extraordinary thing. It's an idea, I. think, big enough to fit the whole. world. when it becomes a.

continent, you know, when it becomes an. island rather than a. continent. I think it's a subcontinent. I should have should have gone to. geography uh lessons more, but you know, you know what I'm talking about when it. shrinks. America seems to stop being. America. And I know you don't want to. get into wars and you shouldn't. um but that are that that don't concern. you but but there's this this word.

freedom land of the free. Yeah. That's and the brave. This is this is. who we look to you for and we look to. you for these qualities. And I believe. they're everywhere. And I don't believe. anyone party has. a has a hold on them. No. On these on. these qualities, but you know, it's it's. a it's a funny one for me. I one of the.

reasons I came on on on the show, I. wanted to on the show was I I wanted to. interview you. I wanted. to I just wanted to get your take on. where America is at the at the present. time because because you're talking to. everyone, you. know, this isn't this is a compliment to. you, but my book, you know, wrote this book,

Surrender, and sort of if there's a. point to it at the very end, it's it's. just I'm I'm shouting at God. I'm having. my wrestling match with my maker and you. just get this thing of and and you've. probably picked it up by now. Shut up. and listen. And I need to listen. more. You are a amazing listener. And I. don't know who it was or some who said.

listening doesn't grant the other side. legitimacy but it grants them their. humanity. and restores your own and you. sit in this room and you listen to. everybody and that makes you very. valuable. um in to to the country and and I wanted. to just get your your take on it. What. what would your advice be to me and. people like me who are not part of. [Music].

the big industrial complex just we just. we just want to. serve the idea of America and the people. who depend on that idea. Yeah. I I What. would your advice to me? I would give. you zero advice. I I don't know if I'm. qualified to give advice, but I would. say that America goes through these. great periods of. overcorrection. It goes these great. periods of like you you saw it during. COVID, during the lockdowns and the.

authoritarianism and we fell into a kind. of state of tyranny where there was just. massive oppression of free speech. including government sponsored. oppression. They were contacting uh. different social media platforms and. banning legitimate doctors and scholars. because they had different opinions. about how things should be handled. There was uh widescale censorship, a. push for a changing of the first. amendment. The first amendment needs to. be overhauled. The first amendment.

doesn't apply to hate speech or to. disinformation. And there was all these. like new ways of talking about. censorship in this country and condoning. censorship and it's very dangerous. because it's all about money. It had. nothing to do with protecting people. That's what I worry about. The the. argument about free speech is that it. seems to be sponsored by a lot of people. who you sense don't really respect it so. much and it but it is a very economic.

um for them to not have to to live with. the consequences. Yes. Of of a story. I. think what is it the communication I. think it's the it's 1996 this is a long. time ago. communications act decency act that. meant the internet did not have to apply. by the same rules as the rest of the. media right so we could say anything we. wanted and at first that felt like.

liberation but I'm not so sure anymore. and so I mean I I you can tell me more. about this I'm I'm I am not a free. speech absolutist. Um, but I like I do. want to believe in free speech, but I'm. nervous that the people who are. supporting free speech and and using. their bots and their their their own. activists are are people from countries.

who would not at all respect our your. mine ability to express ourselves. And. um that's what I worry about is I think. I think the the old interweb is being is. being played like a like a harp, you. know, like like an orchestra and and the. people, you know, behind the curtain. would surprise us, I think, if we knew.

Worse than that. I think it's programmed. like an EDM concert. I think I I think. it's not even an orchestra. I I I worry. and this has been substantiated by data. that more than 50% of the interactions. going on on the internet and social. media are not real. And there was a wild. former FBI analyst yes former FBI. analyst that said it might be as much as. 80%. It's bots as you said and this is this. is a problem with the concept of free.

speech. I'm I'm completely wholly in. favor of free speech just like the ADL. was back in the day when they let the Ku. Klux Clan march. They they like look you. you've got to the way to combat bad. speech is with better speech. The way to. find out whose arguments are correct is. to let them debate in the marketplace of. free ideas and expose these people for. what they are and have the people that. are on the sidelines that are letting. these great thinkers have these. discussions say, "Okay, this guy makes. sense. This guy is clearly a grifter.

This guy has ulterior motives. this guy. has an ideology that's very toxic and. he's trying to push this on the whole. world for control, for power, for money, to benefit the special interest groups. that he's a part of or whatever it is. that the problem with free speech is. you're you're also going to get a lot of. ugliness because there's a lot of. ugliness in the world. You're going to. get a lot of people that say horrible. things. And I think the only way we sort. through all that is you have to let. them. And then you have to let people.

rise up that oppose those horrible. ideas. And those people become heroes. Those become the Martin Luther King. Juniors. Humor helps. Like uh humor. helps. The one thing people know about. the Kluk clan is if you mention the. silly costumes, they they don't like. that. They, you know, it's like they. want you to be afraid or you want to be. nervous, but it's like, dude, look at. the stage gear. You're a ghost. You like. it's like, come on. Do you know who. Daryl Davis is? No. Daryl Davis is a.

musician who um he's was a traveling. blues musician and uh did some shows. where afterwards he met some people that. told him that they were in the Klux. Clan. And he was like, "Are are you. kidding?" And they show the guy shows. him his [ __ ] grand wizard ident card. or whatever the hell it is. He becomes. friends with card. Daryl's black, right? Daryl's a black man and becomes friends. with this guy, goes to his house, meets. his family. The guy throws the robe.

away, gives up his membership in the. KKK, renounces his membership, and gives. Daryl the rope, says, "I want you to. have this." Daryl has done that. personally. The last time I talked to. him was a few years back. He'd done this. personally to over 200 people just by. being an amazing human being, by being a. brilliant artist and and hanging out. with them, just being kind and talk and. as an example of just a great human. And. they were like, I guess I'm wrong. I.

guess I'm wrong. This idea that black. people are inferior and the white man is. a superior race, that can't be true. because I love this guy. And so they. would just quit. Yeah, they'd quit. And. he has theory. It's a terrible theory, but if you're in a place with only. terrible theories and that's what you. grow up, there's Daryl. and they give him all. [Laughter]. his, you know, good man. He's a great. man. Good man. And he's a kind like very. peaceful like when you speak to him,

he's but real he's amazing. one of your. you know again one of the reasons I'm. I'm here. is. the I think there is a. sense that people just want to be part. of something and you know when we were. growing. up there there there were clubs you. could be a part of you know there there. there's.

there's people you could hang out with. and you knew where that was going, but. if you wanted to belong and have a sense. of purpose, you ended up there. And and. so I think. that it's. okay. to un for for men to admit that in this. moment they are probably, you know,

we're we're a we're a little a drift. I. hear this from my daughters. I hear this. from my wife. And it's it's like that's. where this feeling of of of being. dislocated. It's it's so you're. attracted to these simple ideas, you. know, the concept of the gang or America. like it's a team sport between the reds. and the blues. America's the team.

That's all. Yeah. That's and and. and this thing and and and look, I'm. vulnerable. We were we are all. especially when you're growing up. teenagers, you know, you are very. vulnerable to to those points of view. Yes. I you know, early on we had sort of. Yeah. I would say I had. a I I got close to what you might call. fundamentalists. And this is all versions of.

fundamentalism. There are it's all a. very narrow view. Yeah. And and you know. what you see going on right in in Gaza. is you see you see Palestinian. people being held hostage by Hamas. It's. not just Israeli that are being held. hostage by Hamas. Palestinian people and. the fundamentalists in in in Israel in. this in in in the cabinet, these.

farright. fundamentalists because at a time you. remember a few years back everything was. kind of wishywashy and kind of the new. age and whatever you have in yourself. and now these strong clear points of. view have. arrived and it's the great. overcorrection. It's the great. overcorrection. Yeah. that there's a. real problem with ideology and there's a. real problem with fundamentalism and. there's a cowardice in it and there's a. cowardice in I'm the only one that's.

correct. There's a cowardice in not. listening to any other ideas, not. listening to any other positions and. we're being played against each other in. this country. The thing about the bots. and the social media stuff is it just. accentuates this divide between the left. and the right which I think is mostly. [ __ ] Most people are good people. Most people just want to be happy and. healthy and have friends and family and. do what they want to do for a living and. have the freedom to pursue those things. Most people aren't trying to victimize.

people. Most people aren't trying to. destroy other people's lives and destroy. destroy society. They they they they. just want to live their life, but. they're being sucked into one side or. the other that which is radically. opposed to each other. The great. overcorrection. Did you. think that President Zalinski was being. bullied in that meeting in the Oval. Office? Like is that just just to think. about it as a playground? This is a guy. his maybe maybe his life depended but. certainly the life of many many people.

he knew depend on and he had to he to. listen to that. Well, the whole thing is. strange, right? I mean, uh, the argument. in the White House of like you don't. have the right hand of cards and you. know that just the fact that this is all. being done publicly is very strange, right? That there's cameras and. photographers like I don't like live. podcasts sometimes. I've done them. before, but there's something about. having an audience where you're playing. to an audience having, you know, these. conversations should be just couple.

people in a room. That's what I think. I. think that's the the ones that resonate. with me the most. Yeah, this is I just. think it's the best way to do it, the. way that resonates the most. I think the. kind of conversation that you're going. to have with the world leader shouldn't. be performative and it it certainly. shouldn't be with a bunch of people. snapping photographs and pointing. cameras and then pushing each other back. and forth. You know, you you don't have. the right hand hand of cards. This is. not cards. You are playing cards. And.

it's just a cra it's a crazy way. and. each calling each other disrespectful. It's a crazy way to handle any world. events. It's just terrible platform for. it. Yeah. Just think of again I think of. America, the Americans of Omaha Beach, the people who like the level of. courage. Yeah. And I think of. these people on the front line. in Europe. I mean, I haven't really. spoken about. Europe with with you, but you know, if.

if if America is the melting pot, I. would say Europe's the the mosaic. You. know, it's all these different. people who speak with a different. language, but have are trying for one. voice in Europe, which is can sound like. cacophony. They call it Eurobel in in in. Brussels. But I' I've really I'm really. now realizing how romantic it was. You. know, we the Enlightenment with the.

Renaissance, you know, we've got we got. a lot to offer and and. and Europe has Europe's under threat and. those. bots every election now that where this. candidate is pro- Europe and pro-. European unity, they are just getting a. [ __ ] storm of disinformation. And and I just think, wow, but it's I. think Europe is and America are just.

sexier than these people. Is that a trit. thing to say? But it's like they're. they're so kind. of. unsexy, you know? That's I mean that's. Sorry, I have I have driven unromantic. Unromantic. It's That's right. It's just. these. very dull, not funny people, right? And. are trying to take over the world. They're not funny. Lucenko of Bellarus,

that dude is not funny. We don't have to. go further. We don't have to go further. Who do you think is the funniest world. leader? Oh my god. Who? Yeah, that's a really. good question. It's got to be Trump. He's the funniest. Well, he has the. thing that a lot of stand-up comedians. have, which is he can say the thing in. the room that no one else is going to. say, right? And that generally creates a. laugh. And um but I also think he.

mightn't be able to take a joke. Well, he's not good at that. He doesn't enjoy. a joke coming his way. No, he doesn't. I. mean, Zilinski is actually a comedian, right? I I met him before he became. president. He played piano with his. penis on television. It It's quite a It. was quite a piano. I mean, it's funny to go from playing. piano with your penis to becoming the. president of the Ukraine, becoming the.

president of the United States by all. accounts. So, so um. but he he came to Ireland as a comedian. He told me I didn't know and he played. like small towns. I think he played. Dundor or Draw or somewhere in the east. coast of Ireland. But comedians can read. a room. I mean. performers. I.

think comedians are the top of the food. chain because you don't have a band. You. don't have a [ __ ] tambourine. You. don't. You just have the read of the. room and the material has to be really. funny. I use this sometimes with our. band. Not a lot of our music. is just experimental and innovative. We. improvise and then we try to turn it. into songs. But sometimes we'll write a. pop song and and we'll end up with a pop. song and I'll say, "Well, the thing.

about a pop song is it is empirical. It's like it either is or it isn't. It's. like a joke that doesn't have a. punchline. It's like a comedian does not. walk out on stage and tell a joke and if. people don't laugh go they just don't. get it. It just means the joke isn't. funny. So I it's not a popular theory in. our band by the way but I hold on to it. very tight. I just say if you can't go. out and play this song and it just.

connect then it's not a pop song. We. don't we only do a few pop songs every. every decade probably because a lot of. what we YouTube does is different kind. of rock and roll. But I do think there's. something empirical about some songs are. better than the others. Yes. I witnessed. a I witnessed one of the most ridiculous. uh moments in in my life, but it was.

kind of funny. Um, Oasis, you know, Oasis are amazing to just love them. And. um, so I witnessed this. It couldn't be. a more childish fight. between two of my friends. Liam Galler. was a friend at that point, I know. better now, but and Michael Hutchkins, who was the singer of in Excess. And. they really were doing the my song's.

better than your song. Oh no. No. No. What about No, no. And and and and I was. thinking, I was laughing to myself and. then I. thought it's interesting. Both of them. have a point. That song of theirs might. be better than that. And I started to. think about it. and comedians don't get a chance to have. to be. subjective. It's not like Prince walks.

out and plays a whole new album and can. go they just don't get it. It's like. you're either funny or you're not. Right. You're going down flame. Have you. gone down in flames? Oh, sure. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Where's What was your worst gig? Oh, I've had so. many. Especially in the early days, you're you're trying to figure it out. And you know, the thing about material. is material is essentially like like a. calf that's newly born and it has.

awkward legs and it has to develop into. a bull. But it takes a long time. It. takes crafting. You have to sit with it. You have to go over the some ideas come. to you in full form and some ideas you. have to believe in them. You know. there's something there and you have to. dig and you know trust the muse and find. it and you know sometimes those bits. will just [ __ ] bomb and you have to. just like gosh should I abandon this? Should I keep working on this? Do you. have a team of writers? No. Wow. No, I.

just write everything myself. You're. kidding. No. Always. Yeah. Always have. always right. I just like my my view on. standup, the kind of standup that I do. is supposed to be here's the world. through my eyes. This is how I'm seeing. things from the most ridiculous aruck. and laughing at everything perspective. and I have to it has to be through my. lens. Well, that's amazing. I mean, because I've seen, you know, on Saturday. Night Live when we do it or I've seen. some of the talks, I see these geniuses,

you know, crunching jokes and coming out. with material and that's a different. thing. It's a different thing. Yeah. Like a Saturday Night Live monologue or, you know, a Tonight Show monologue or. any of that kind of thing. It's a That's. a different thing. The The real standup. is clubs, you know. I went to club with. Dave Chappelle to a club. He brought me. to it was amazing. Are you still. friendly with him? Oh, real good. friends. Yeah. I love him to death. Yeah, he's he's he's incred That's jazz. Yes, he's a real artist. He can go.

there. Well, well, you know, it's. like Yeah. No, I'm I I think Why am I. Why am I talking about this? I'm told. this. Oh, yeah. Because people can't. take a joke, right? And some people I. mean, we don't need belly laughs out of. our leaders. We just need vision. You. need vision and kindness. Yes, but to. deal. with the Klux Clan, humor helps. to deal. with the the fascists or whatever. I I. mean certainly Hitler. in I think late 30s was getting rid of.

the dads and the surrealists because the. language of fascism was to fight back. but that they liked that language and I. mean the language of resistance against. you know Hitler was to fight back and. and but they that suited them. They did. not like being laughed at. the fuel did. not like being laughed at. Well, cuz if. you can mock something, like you can you. can have a position or an opinion on. something and someone can disagree.

strongly, but if they make everyone. laugh at that position, now you're now. they've made a real point because it's. actually an opinion that you might not. have even agreed with has caused you to. belly laugh. Like, oh god. Like, that's. how you really get because if you go on. stage and just have a bunch of opinions. and just lecture people, there's people. in the audience that go, well, well, [ __ ] you. I feel differently. But if you. could go on stage with that opinion and. make people laugh at something they know. they shouldn't be laughing at like, oh. my god. And you're like like then you're.

introducing ideas into a person. It's a. spoonful of sugar that helps the. medicine go down. Yeah. No, you're. certainly the because with rock stars. and again honestly feel like I'm just a. impersonating one. I don't think I I am. the material really, but people when. they see me coming, they sit in their. wallet. You know what I mean? They're. like, "Wh he comes and he's going to. have a sign up." And it's like, whereas. comedians, people are much more open.

People will people will are just more. open. I think that's a that's that it's. a responsibility, but. it's it's something to be valued. It's. just I I I was saying to somebody. recently, I'm not sure I trust people. anymore who aren't a little bit funny. Yeah. I mean, funny in the not not the. funny peculiar, right? There's a place. for that, too. But, you know, people who. make you laugh are open. Yes. And also,

the contradictions of the world and how. bizarre things are, it's just ripe with. humor. And if you don't ever pick up on. it, like what are you focusing on? Like. you don't ever see the hypocrisy and the. ludicrousness of just this existence, this temporary existence on a spinning. orb hurling through the universe and. concentrating on who gets to use what. bathroom. Like is this like, you know. what I mean? It's like we're weird. We're very weird. And if you don't see.

that, you're not paying all attention. You're not all in. You're certainly not. balanced. Those mushrooms were working. very well for you. Yeah, that I'm. telling you, man. In God's country. That's the ticket. That's beautiful. I I. um Wow. I'm I'm so touched that. album, you know, a lot of the songs on. that. were, you know, very vulnerable, you. know, and I don't know if you know.

Brian, you know, was a produced at one. of invented ambient music and worked. with David Bowie, talking heads, you. know, um, and recently Coldplay and. other people. Um, but he was had a. profound influence on us because we. didn't go to I didn't go to art college. All like the Beatles, the Stones, they. all went to art college. We went to. Brianino and he had this incredible. musician in partnership with him for the.

production of that album called Daniel. Lano. One of the greatest. musicians you'll ever meet in your life. And that some songs come really quickly, like boom, you just But somes are just. like what you're saying. They're like. the the the fo the the legs are going. around. And the one that was like that. was where the streets of Noame and so we. were working on it for what felt like. weeks and Brian you know came in and he.

just said I am not having us spend one. more minute on this song and he went to. wipe it. So he was actually gonna wipe. it and and so there's no other copies. and Pat McCarthy who was our engineer. went on to produce and Madonna great. dude he physically blocked Brian from it. and but that song for.

me and it's it's not the lyric that I'm. most proud of or anything because it's. Brian was just saying to us just go with. you for a sketch. Remember talking about. paint on canvas? Yes. But I'm saying, but it's not it's not that clever. I. want He don't let it be clever. Just. that's what you said. That's what you. meant. And and it's the strangest thing. Uh Joe, because we go on stage and I sing that.

song, we sing that song, we play that. song. And it's like, what the [ __ ]. Where the streets of knowing? What's. that about? I started it in Africa when. I was with my wife when I was a kid and. you were. 25 something like maybe 26. She was. 24 and it was about the devastation that. was happening in the Ethiopian famine. and I just couldn't explain it to.

myself. There was other. inferences about the song, but none of. them. matter as much as this question to your. audience, which is do you want to go. there to this place, a place of. imagination, a place of soul, place of. that other place? Do you want do you. want to go there? Should we do you want. to go there together? And. everybody feels it because we all want.

to. be outside of ourselves at a certain. time and we all want to have that. experience that meeting with some call. it the universe some call it God some. call it themselves whatever but it's. it's music. now I think you know all art aspires to. the condition of of music. But but we I. was saying we go to church in the dark,

you know, that's what rock and roll is. And we're just looking for little shards. of light. We find it in in an audience. We find our transcendence together. But. the movie, we also go to church in the dark in. cinema. You're sitting in you're in. you're in a dark. space and it's projected light telling. other people's stories. [Music]. and somebody said cinema is like being.

born like you go into the womb. It's. like you're floating around in the, as. Jim Sheran would say, he's my hero, psychological genius, Irish director, My. Left Foots, The Boxer, some great films. He'd say, "Yeah, you're in the amniotic. fluid. You're inside the. mutter and you're about to come out into. the light." That's cinema. Great cinema. is that journey towards the light. And I.

love that. Um, I love that. But it's the. same for some people. They their. cathedral. is a. hike, the natural world. Yeah. Have you. ever heard of Richard Roar? No. Oro Hor. He lives in Albuquerque. He has a thing. called it's called the center of the. center of.

um action and contemplation. And I really love it that it's that way. round. And he's a. Franciscan frier and. but very otherworldly thoughts. about the natural world. and finding the the divine in it as well. as just in each other, but just seeing. it in the world around you. I think. you'd en enjoy him. He's he's he's he's. worth he's worth a read. Do you is if.

Rogan is it Irish? Is it Catholic Irish? Is it? Yeah. Right. Yeah. Okay. You. might enjoy him. I'm sure I would. Yeah. He's he's a he's a he's a real beauty. He lives got a little hermitage. and and. and Yeah. And he's he's good. Um he's. great on the anagram as well. Do you. know the anagram? No. It's the sort of. archetypal thing. goes back to.

Sufi I think early Sufi and then the. Christian. fathers are they what they call the. desert fathers in the 4th century but. it's a way of recognizing archetypes and. our own I I I it's not a it's not a big. thing for me or anything it's not. archetypes but I think my our daughter. Eve is an actor and she said a lot of. writers are interested in And she said.

in some of the clever schools they teach. this the anagram. He's anyway Richard Ro. is an expert in it I think. Oh here it. goes. Oh anyagram. Three centers. Oh. looks like a cult of intelligence. The. mediator peacemaker. So the. perfectionist reformer the giver helper. supporter performer achiever romantic. individualist. The observer thinker the. loyal skeptic. the trooper, the epicure, enthusiast, generalist, and the. protector, the leader of the boss. What.

would you say you are? Oh, Jesus. I. don't know how you could tell. I. wouldn't at this point I think I just. keep on keeping on. I try not to pay. attention to me as much as possible. I. think there's a thing that happens what. you're talking about on stage where. everyone achieves a higher state of. consciousness through a song. I think. that's that's where it is really like a. church. That's where it is really like a. religious experience when when a a great. song is playing that like really like.

when people hear it and like ah you know. maybe it's the first couple of bars of. Sunday Bloody Sunday. They hear it and. they're like yes. It's like this thing. that washes over everyone collectively. We're all experiencing it together and. it takes you away from yourself. You. know, everyone's caught up in their own. struggle and their their self and how. they exist in this world and all the. problems of reality. And then there's. something about these moments of divine. inspiration where they impact people in.

this very profound way. And I think. that's one of the reasons why people are. so deeply drawn to music and especially. live performance because music is. wonderful. Music by yourself is great. I. love listening to music in my car. I. love listening to music period. But. music when you're in a live setting, when everyone's experiencing it. together, it's it's a religious. experience. There's something there's. something attuned to it. There's a. reason why they sing in church, right? To achieve very similar. Yeah. I missed. that. You know, when we were kids. growing up, the tunes weren't that great.

in the church. And I said to my I mean, no offense to whoever was there, but. they I agree. But you know, I was like I. I said to our kids, you know, as and. they were all none of them were baptized. Protestant or Catholic because my father. was Catholic, my mother's. I just said, "You want to be Christian, you want to. be Christian, but you decide." So, you. know, I never got religion rammed down. my throat. I'm certainly not going to. put it down yours. So, we'd go and.

sometimes you just get a feeling in a. place. I said, "Just trust that. feeling." Yeah. And they might say, "Well, the tunes aren't that good." And. I'm like, "It's okay." But but I I I. would I remember when I was really young. walking in and hearing like the. Salvation Army band and people singing. and I remember getting the shivers just. thinking these are these are these these. hymns, these ancient Yes. songs. They. they really connect us.

And I I miss that. And I I think people. I think people would return to religion. if if if religion wasn't so [ __ ] up. Yeah. And. and I think. people, you know, the the church has to. serve the people and and and not the. other way around. And you know, the church.

presently, I don't know how many. churches you'd have here in Austin, Texas, but I'd probably say if there's. 276 different kinds of um churches, you. know, it's it's just one church. It's. just in 276 bits, pieces. It feels sometimes like it's at odds. with. science, but it's not. Science is the.

pursuit of truth. And so these are. pilgrims, too. The great scientists are. trying to crack the code of the physical. world. The. great theologians are trying to crack. the code of the metaphysical world. And. nobody knows. That's the thing about. literalism. You know that beautiful. thing in, you know, everyone has it at. their wedding. Love is patient. Love is. kind. We can roll over you. Love is.

this. Love is that. And then it goes. faith, hope, and and love. But the. greatest of these is love. And I. remember talking with somebody and. saying, "Well, why is love more. important than faith? Why is love more. important than hope?". And the clue is a few verses later where. it says we. see through the. mirror. darkly. But one day we'll see face to.

face. We know now in part, but one. day we will know. fully as we. ourselves are known. You cannot be a. fundamentalist and and. not understand that that is an. explanation to just realize that you can. have faith, you can have hope, but love. means you need love. We need love.

because we cannot be sure. Our. certainties, our certainties, that's the. scary thing. And you know, I trust a. feeling as a musician. I trust it when. I'm going, you know, to sing or to. improvise. But they're not certainties. They're instincts. Yeah. And and I love. that you feel that. music is a still a communal place. Our. festivals are amazing and and people.

people are deprived presently of of a. place where they feel comfortable. I'm. comfortable in the back of a cathedral. I'm comfortable at some what's your. friend the the blues guy or you know a. gospel church. I'm I'm I'm just I'm just. looking for the spirit. Yes. Wherever I. find it in a conversation. I can feel it when it's happening where.

when we're having an honest. conversation. You feel it. It's a It's a. thing and I'm and I can put down my. salesman and just have a conversation. because the three on that inagram is. probably my number. I because it's so. excruciating. But um it's the salesman. I sell. ideas as well as songs and I sometimes. just have to. just just shut up and listen. I think. we're all those things just to varying.

degrees. And I think the spirit of the. thing is what you're talking about. This. intangible moment where everybody. realizes they're in it. Whether it's in. a church where they're sing or one of my. favorite moments with you was on uh the. Jimmy Fallon show singing Ordinary Love. Oh wow. I loved it. We played it on the. podcast. when it happened uh the next. day when it got out on YouTube, I I. brought it in here and I go, "You gotta. listen to this. This is just such an.

amazing rendition of a song because it's. just you sitting on these chairs and. Jimmy Fallon is next to you on the table. like this." Is it here? What a beauty. We played this. I want to listen to it. Let's put this on. Put the headphones. on. I [ __ ] love this version. [Music].

wants to kiss the golden shore. The. sunlight wants your. skin. All the beauty that's been lost. before wants to find us. [Music]. again. I can't find you anymore. You are fighting. for the sea throws rocks together but. time leaves us.

polished. We can't fall any further in. We can't feel ordinary love and we. cannot reach any higher if we can't deal. with ordinary love. [Music]. Birds fly high in the summer sky and.

rest on the. breeze. The same wind will take care of. you and I. We'll build our house in the. trees. Your heart is on my sleeve. Did you put it there with a magic mug? For our years, I would believe that the. world couldn't wash us.

away. We can't fall any further. We can feel ordinary love and we cannot. reach any higher if we can deal with. ordinary love. We can fall any. further. We can feel ordinary love and. we cannot reach any higher if we can't.

deal with ordinary love. Oh yeah. Yeah. I love this part. Oh, come on. Falling further. in ordinary love and we cannot reach any. higher. We can't deal with ordinary. love. We can't fight any further.

We can feel ordinary love. We cannot. reach any. higher. We can't deal with her quest. [Music]. Love you, too. Everybody, that is that is without a doubt hands. down my favorite performance ever. ever.

on a talk show ever. Because it was so, first of all, it starts out so relaxed. You're just sitting on the couch and. you're singing it and you're just so on. it. You're so on it that everyone just. gets captivated by it and then the music. builds and then you bring in roots. It's. [ __ ] phenomenal. And that's so like. that is what we're talking about. That's. like this moment that elevates people. It takes people out of their life and. just this joy of expression all. happening simultaneously with everybody. in the crowd and every and then when you.

stand up and you start dancing and roots. are playing who just washes over. everybody. That is it's odd that you. should should bring it up because I was. sitting in a table with a couple of. journalists. um friends of a friend of mine this. economist called David McWills. did love. him. By the way, he's the guy who says. uh the poor think in minutes, the the. rich think in years. You know, they're.

kind of one of the one of us close. But. anyway, sitting with a bunch of. people and. they're from London and this guy's. going, "Yeah, he says Mc Williams here. He's all about you, too. He's all about. you." Yeah. He hasn't got any of your. [ __ ] records. I have your records. I've got all your records. I've [ __ ]. gone off you, right? Gone right off you. That [ __ ] song, Ordinary Love. He's. got a whatever glass in his hand and.

he's getting the the the Dutch and the. British courage and the Irish courage. and he's going that song about Mandela. and all that. So, I listen to it. It's. like [ __ ]. nothing. And. then I I I was watching Jimmy Fallon. and you played the same song. And he. said I was in tears. He. said it just something something. happened. Yeah.

So I look at it and I'm going dodgy. haircut on the singer. But I am also. being defensive because I can feel. something too. There is something going. on. That is the thing. And I and you. two, you know, we're making an album at. the moment and it has to be framed. around that. Not that song, not that. even style of songwriting, but that. thing, the the the thing, the moment, the spirit, whatever that is. Yeah. And.

the conversation you're having with your. audience, with somebody, a deep. listener. By the way, that same woman who said. about listening, she said deep. listening is an act of. surrender. And so it's coming full circle for me. Well, if you're in that audience, there's an act of surrender for sure. When and if you're an artist, if you're.

singing it. Yes. That's you have to. Yes. And everyone recognizes that. That's why it resonates. So, I mean, I I. just think if we're a rock and roll. band, there's four people in your band. There's nobody sounds like Adam Clayton, you know? I mean, there's nobody sounds. like Edge. There's nobody sounds like. Larry Mullen. And nobody wants to sound. like me. No, no, there's I can sing. I. can sing. And I'm becoming the singer. I I am. And that's the reason I'm still.

in a band because we all have to answer. that question, don't we? Why Why would. we still be in a band? We've got to feel. that it's our best album that's going to. come. Yes. But if it is, it's going to. be because we frame it around that. moment in the room when that happens. Yes. I promise you. I can't deliver. that. Promise you for every song on the. album. I'll come back if you'll have me.

and I'll play you some of the the the. the songs. But but but for the live rock. and roll pieces, it has to have that. I. recognize that. Yes. You could come back. anytime you want. Well, by the way. Oh, thank you. Anytime. But yeah, that that. that's what everybody wants out of. entertainment, out of celebration. That's what everybody wants, these. moments. Yeah. And that was a real. moment, Matt. That was a real moment. that resonated through the television. I. couldn't imagine what it would have been.

like to be in that room. And I was. thinking that like, God, I wish I was. there because, you know, you see Will. Smith and Will Smith's in the corner. You see him just taken over by the music. like nodding his head like, oh my god. Just in that moment, it was so pure. Strange strange resonance. I don't know. if it was mentioned, but he played. Nelson Mandela. No, he played Muhammad. Ali. He played Muhammad Ali. Right. Right. I got that wrong. That just would. be funny. That would be funny. Yeah. But. it was that that's what everybody's.

looking for. That's what everybody's. looking for out of art, out of religion, out of just love and community. We're. looking for these moments that elevate. us above everything else. And there's a. moment when a a a great performance like. that. Just when everyone in the audience. realizes what you're doing and we're all. in it together and people at home are in. it like that was so powerful. It re it's. everything through the television is.

like 60% of what it is in person at the. most. Well, he you know we we used to. avoid um TV because it's actually Bruce. Springsteen advice years and years ago. He said be careful of being on TV. because people can turn you down. You. know they can go off to the kitchen and. you know make coffee. So he's kind of. right about that. It can it can take. away the mystery. But, you know, that. that studio that he's in, um, Jimmy, you.

know, that's a historic place. You know, the Beatles or whatever, you know, think. of all the artists that have been in on. the So, there's something going on. there. Oh, yeah. And and he he's he's a very beautiful. spirit. He he just really He seems like. it. I don't know him, but he seems like. I've been out late night with him. I've. been, you know, in in in all kinds of. situations and is just a really a.

see-through heart, you know, trans. transparent persons. Just you you see. you see you see what he's thinking. Now, how he does that night after night, I. will never know. Yeah. Like I'm I'm. terrified going on those shows. This is. easy for me because I'm talking. I don't. do full stops and commas, but you know, I don't have to. You're not asking me.

to. I'm just having a conversation. But. to be sharp and be on it. Yeah. I don't. know if I'm going to be sharp or on it. And part of being in you too is I have. to be true to my mood. And then I've. have to allow the the song to take me. somewhere else. And yeah, my. my yeah, it's it's a funny thing, you. know, yeah, this performing there's not. much psychology written about being a.

being a being, you know, books about un. about the psychology of a singer. Probably there is for comedians or No, there's barely forians. I think the. problem is that only the people that can. truly do it understand it, right? That's. the problem. you know the problem and. then you the the what you're talking. about with confinement for the talk show. format that's also what makes that. moment so much greater is because you. realize yes it's just it's it it's it.

doesn't belong there that that format is. for hollow platitudes and selling a new. television show and getting in and out. before the seven minute commercial break. it's a It's the worst way to have a. conversation where you're going to get. the most out of people because the most. that you when you have time constraints. on conversations, you immediately feel. under the gun. So, you're kind of like. tense and you're pressured and you don't.

know when and then and then the audience. is staring at you and then there's. bright lights. Everything is wrong. Everything is it's opposed to the way uh. normal comfortable human conversation. and connection works. M it works with. silence around you and just people. talking or in a pub or wherever you're. at, you know, in a living room with. friends at a party. Like that's the real. human connection where it's open-ended. and you're just talking. soon as you like lock it down and then.

you know you have to lock it down for. commercials and you you have to button. this up and there's a new person coming. in in five minutes so they got to. shuffle you out the door and hold up. your album and tell everybody to buy it. and then you leave and like was that. good? I guess it was good. It's like you. know what I mean? It's I don't I never. liked doing them. I always felt confined. and I would never do standup on them. I. was always asked to do standup on them. Like that's not where standup belongs. Like but if someone can pull it off like. there's been great comedians that pulled. off incredible Tonight Show sets like. Richard Jenny and George Carlin. Who's.

your Yeah. Who's your favorites? I mean. apart from I'm not going to ask you. about your mates but people that you we. were talking earlier about singer people. that I just looked up to. Who were who. were the ones that formed you? Well, when I was a child, I was probably I. guess I was 15 or 16. My parents took me. to see Live in the Sunset Strip in a. theater and it was Richard Prior. He. performed he did a concert special in. the theater and I think it's his. greatest performance. And when I was. there in the theater, I was laughing so.

hard and I remember very clearly looking. around at all these people and they were. falling out of their chairs laughing. People were just falling back, slapping. each other, going, "Oh my god, oh my. god." Like they couldn't breathe. And I. remember thinking, "This guy is doing. this just talking." And I remember all. the funny movies that I'd seen like. Stripes and, you know, all the great. comedies, Animal House, funny comedies. Nothing compared to this. And this guy's. just talking. It was an incredibly.

profound moment for me. I remember I got. obsessed with Richard Prior. I started. buying Richard Prior cassettes. I would buy like whatever I could, you. know, you could find them and I found a. bunch that were like you had there were. like weird printings of him at Red Fox's. comedy club. I actually found them in a. truck stop once. They were selling these. cassettes. I was like, "What is this?". And then I I bought them and there were. incredible performances, like 15 people. in the crowd. He's just ranting and. going on these like unhinged rants about. things and just having fun and being.

really loose. And I just couldn't. believe that someone could do that. That. he could just by talking this theater. filled with people were just falling. down laughing and just blown away. So. that was probably my first thought about. standup comedy. My first real thought. just how what a crazy power to have. Like what an unbelievable thing to be. able to do with just your words. Yeah. I. saw Robin Williams do that a few times.

cuz I was in a room with him and I just. he just couldn't not turn it off. It was. just and it was wild. It was he he he. was certainly not in control of it. And. that's we there's a genius um comedian. called Tommy Tieran. I don't know if. you've seen him. I've heard him. He he. again when he goes out and he doesn't go. out often because I think it scares the. shite out of him what he's going to say. next. Yeah. And so that is the thing of. having the material and then being able.

to blow, you know, just let go of the. material. Yeah. That's I think must be. part of this. Is it? Yeah. I mean I I. don't know. I I am Yeah, it's part of. it. Yeah. The these ideas they come to. you and you just have to decide whether. to embrace them or not. I don't. And you. get yourself into such trouble. Yeah. Because you just you say the thing that. you thought of. But the art is in fact. being able to say the thing you've. thought of. That's it's a strange one. Truly realized that. And I never had any.

aspirations of comedy whatsoever when I. was young when I was in when I loved. Richard Prior. I just loved it as a fan. just like I loved rock and roll. I. didn't want to be a singer. I just loved. it. And then I saw Kenison. And I think that was the first moment. where I went, "Oh, this is comedy, too. Wow. Okay. What is comedy?" You know, because everybody else had been like. telling jokes or with prior it was like. these stories of life that was so like.

revealing and so vulnerable but also. hilarious like deeply fun just like so. accurate in the caricatures of pe of. people. And then there was Kenisonson. I. was like okay this is comedy too. And. the the first thing I ever saw of him I. was actually introduced to him by a girl. that I worked with a girl that I worked. with at a gym. I worked at the Boston. Athletic Club. I was a trainer. I was. teaching people how to lift weights. And. there was a lady who was a volleyball. player who I was friends with that. worked there. She worked the front desk. And she was like, I saw HBO last night.

This comedian was so funny. And in the. parking lot of this gym that we worked. out, she did Sam Kenisonson's bit of. homosexual necroiliacs paying a bunch of. money to be with the freshest male. corpses. Have you ever seen the bit? I. have. So the bit is the guy, he goes, "Imagine this. You're at the end of your. life, you know, you're lying down. You're like, "Well, I guess I'm dead. now. I'm going to be alone with Jesus, and that's going to be great. I'm going. to be in heaven." And hey, he starts. rocking back and forth. What is this? It.

It feels like someone's got a dick in my. ass. I mean, life keeps [ __ ] the ass. Even after you're dead, it never ends. It never ends. She's doing this. impression. She's lying on the parking. lot on her stomach going back and forth. And I'm dying laughing. I was like, I. got to see this. So, my first. introduction to Kenisonson was this. friend of mine. Her doing it on the. concrete. You did a That was good. It. was amazing. You No, no, that you you're.

you doing her doing him. Oh, yeah. It. was She did a great job. She had me. howling. Who else? Uh, well, he was a. huge one. Um, Eddie Murphy for sure. That was a huge one. Then again, that. was also like I I still didn't think I. was going to do standup until I saw. Kenisonson. The fir when I first saw. Kenisonson, that was when it was like. maybe I can do because I had friends. telling me to do it. But it was friends. that I did martial arts with. So we. would have to from the time I was 15.

till I was like 21 22 all I did was. travel around the country competing and. I was with this such a wild combination. if you don't mind me saying it's just. like it it just the martial arts seems. so. unfunny you you you know you you were. fighting for your life. It's very scary. So in the when it's terrifying like that. and everyone's nervous that's when. gallows humor comes in and I was the guy. who m I always needed attention when I.

was young. So I was getting my attention. from being really good at fighting but. then I was also getting my attention. around the also the people that were. really good at fighting at being funny. So when we were all like you know a. bunch of [ __ ] crazy people the their. hobby was to travel around the country. trying to kick people unconscious right? So, this is the job. This is the group. that I'm hanging out with. And, you. know, most of them were older than me. Uh, I was the youngest because I was in. high school at the time. Most of these. were grown men. And I was competing.

against grown men while I was in high. school, which is another crazy thing. My. instructor was hardcore. And he threw me. to the grown men when I was 16. It was. terrifying. But because it was so. terrifying, I developed this way of. releasing steam. And so my friend of. releasing my way of releasing steam. I'd. make fun of different guys that we. trained with having sex like how he. probably does it and this and that. And. we were always just I was just always. trying to crack people up. And I had one. friend that I'm still really good.

friends with to this day, my friend. Steve Graham, who talked me into doing. standup. And I never thought I'm like. you think I'm funny because you like me. I go but you're crazy too. Like you're a. [ __ ] psychopath as well. Like you're. you think I'm funny because you're doing. the same thing that I'm doing. Like. we're nutty people. We're not normal. Other people are going to think I'm an. [ __ ] And then the when you walked. out though, you tell tell me what how. was he there when you walked out on the. first time? Oh yeah, he was there the. first night. Yeah. So So can you paint.

me the picture? I was at a comedy club. I was terrible. I went to open mic. night. I did like five minutes. It was. horrible. But I got a couple of laughs. I got a couple chuckles. And I I was. like I got off stage. I was like, I. think I could do this. The weirdest. thing was like I had probably at that. time I was 21 years old. I'd probably. fought at least a hundred times. Wow. And I was way more terrified of doing. comedy. Way more scared. Way more. scared. Like fighting was scary, but I. was like, I know it just has to start.

Once it starts, I know what to do. Like. the real fear of comedy or of fighting. was before the fight. It was all the. demons, all the the thing. Why am I. doing this? Why are you doing fighting. in the end? That's what you're fighting. You're fighting the fear. But I knew. once it started, I wouldn't be scared at. all cuz you don't feel fear when you're. fighting cuz it's you're so in the. moment. You're you're in the moment. You're you're zen. You almost don't. exist, you know? You have to to operate. at the highest level to have like. instantaneous reactions and to be able.

to manage your pace and all these. different things. You can't think about. yourself or how you look or how you feel. or whether your girlfriend's mad at you. or whether you're going to fail out of. high school. you have to be locked into. what you're doing. So, I wasn't afraid. of fighting. I was afraid of everything. before fighting. I was afraid of. feelings. And so, but that's where the. comedy came from. The comedy came from. like alleviating that, you know, and. Right. So, there is a symbiosis there, you know. There's there's a thing in it. It's a task, a very complicated task.

The way I describe fighting is it's. highlevel problemolving with dire. physical consequences. That's what it. really is. You could call it fighting. You could think it's brutish and. aggressive. Say that again. It might be. the title of our new album. Highlevel. problem solving with dire physical. consequences. So, as as far as like. sport, I just put meta in front of the. physical consequences. Yes, we got. ourselves an album. Yes. It's the most consequential of all all. sports cuz when someone beats you, they.

don't just beat you, they take away. everything you are as a man. When. someone destroys you in in a. competition, you are not a man anymore. You are significantly decreased in your. value. Everything about you, you feel. terrible. Is good. You were You are as. good the day you walked in there. confident and you still feel like [ __ ]. where you felt like you could take on. the world. You have the same skills. You're as good as you felt when you.

could take on the world. And now you. feel like utter dog [ __ ] And yet we. know that failing is how we succeed. You. know the Samuel Beckett lines, fail, fail again, fail better. I may have. failed to get the quote right, but it. that's it. You know, fail, fail, fail. better. The pain is fuel. The pain of. failure is the most potent fuel, the. most potent inspiration known to man. And the more terrifying the failure, whether it's failure in standup comedy.

or it's failure in that's very high. stakes if you think about I'm just. thinking this through the second. both your. chosen. passions entail the risk of humiliation. Yeah, you have to have that. That's the. only way you get better. Wow. That's the. only way you really get better. It's. tricky. Um super tricky. I my I my I my. I my I my I my I my I my I my I my I my. I my I grew up my best mate um since I. was three years old. Um he just gave me. my name my Bono he gave us all names but.

and his family names his genius really. um painter became his painters father. there was tough stuff going on on our. street in their house and. um he he grew up well they the father. used to was kind of religious. [Music]. um extremist let's call it that. Used to. humiliate the kids by putting a bowl on.

their hair on their hair and cutting. their hair. So he'd walk around with. these pudding bowls. So everyone would. be like around be like a. they were just so fast. They were all. they could all look after themselves. And like the boy named Sue, it's it is. the Johnny Cash song. Boy Named Sue. They are they and so good my mate. So I. grew up sparring with him. This is this. is how literally how we grew up and his. so we watch all the boxing matches all.

what the obvious ones and he just really. went into his obsession became mixed. martial arts so he wants his kids he's. you know they're going down to the gym. and then my godson okay his name is Noah. and he comes and this is not a joke this. is not a joke so goodie my mate since. I'm three years old comes up and he goes. Oh. He says, "No, he's he wants to give.

up fighting, you know, cage fighting.". And I said, "Oh, that's that's okay." I. said, "What does he want to. do?" He wants to be a. doctor. And I'm like, "Googie, this is a. really your kid wants to be a doctor and. you're disappointed, but he could be. such a great fighter." And I I said, "Gookie, he wants to be a doctor. This. is a by the way, he became a doctor. This is not this story. That's how it. ended. But I said and he but he but he.

was such a good fighter. I said why did. he give up? He said he's down the gym. He said I can't even beat the best guy. in the gym. If I can't beat the best guy. in the gym, there's no point in me. having a big career. He said the best. guy in the gym was Conor McGregor and. and he was a few years older. So it's. and then two of his other kids are. fighters now. Wow. So I've I've grown up. around it and because of my mates and.

his and his kids and but that. thing of of. combat, being comfortable in. combat is a thing you to be careful of. because you can end up there. And. sometimes I do well you see it's you. because it's a art form for you. It's a. it's a it's a it was a you know. profession. It was a it's different. But.

people like me fight or flight is a. problem because sometimes fight is on. and I and there is no fight. Right. So. that's part of the shut up and listen. instructions I'm receiving. from which is I'm kind of born that's. with my fists up and and from whatever. way just growing up and being around. what I was around and experiencing what. I experienced I have that and and and.

and even in the band I'm a bit like that. and and so I've got to be careful. Because it's not always somebody coming. around the corner who wants to take you. out and they might actually just want to. take you out, right? You know, and it's. it's not becoming. of to be combative at all times. So, I'm. I'm I'm learning to put my fist down.

I'm learning to spend those times in the. morning thanking God that I'm alive. because I had a heart surgery as we. talked about earlier and just waking up. is great. Just like wow, I've just woken. up. What a thrill. And I'm trying to get. to that place with not with the. world, but with myself. I've not made. peace with the world. I certainly have. not. But I am making more peace with.

myself which is sometimes a bit harder. and and and the family and listening to. them more and and and yeah that's that's. that's it. This this combat thing is is. interesting. Were you in in the. neighborhood? I asked you earlier but. were there. people were is there people you can. remember? Sure. from like like us being. like on you competitive on me not from.

the time I started training once I. started training I got very good very. quick and I became kind of known for it. people start picking because I was I was. doing it at a in a crazy way it wasn't. as simple as like oh he takes karate. it's like no he on the weekends he's. traveling around the country and. fighting in tournaments you know and I'. I was winning them you know so I was it. I found a thing very early on that I. could excel at that was scary that.

people and I realized through that. thing. You can get good at anything. You. just have to put your attention and. focus to it. And well, when do you put. your attention and focus to something. the the most? Well, when your literal. health relies on success. It was so. scary that you couldn't halfass it. which is like I have a problem with. things that involve too much personality. and charisma where they could mask truth. and I think this is the problem with.

evangelical preachers this is the. problem with politicians. and it could be anybody but it's like. there's this siren call that will lead. you to the rocks and it's believing your. own [ __ ] and fighting was it It. didn't matter what your personality was. It didn't matter. It's empirical. Yeah. It did. Nothing mattered. It didn't. matter how many people liked you. If you. get kicked in the head, you get [ __ ]. up. And on the flip side of it, I used.

to love when I would go to someone. else's hometown and they had all these. people beating like cheering for them. All these people like, you know, you're. going to [ __ ] them up. All these people. cheering in the corn. I would love that. It was my favorite thing. My favorite. thing. I was like, they can't help you. Do you have rage. me now? No, I'm just when you're. fighting I mean obviously my what we do. in music is we try to turn rage. into something beautiful and that's what.

rock and roll is the sound of you know I. think it was Neil Young that said. something like sound of revenge or. something whatever it's rage for sure. there's rage that's what separates. certain bands you want to know what the. difference between a pop band and a rock. and roll bandage it's rage rage against. the machine and you bet and And [ __ ]. you, I won't do what you tell me. Yeah, we we we had that and that that was that. was coming through me and and I had to. So I'm just wondering where you.

Where did you get that rage from? Or or. maybe you didn't have it. I mean, I'm. told by some people that it's like Mike. Tyson had rage, but some boxers, you. know, they didn't. They could they could. they thought it made them weak. It it. Well, it gets in the way of clear. thinking. And you know, I had this guy. named Yuri Prohaskca on the podcast. recently. He's brilliant fighter who's. in the UFC who is the light heavyweight. champion at one point in time and is. still one of the top light heavyweights. in the world. And we were talking about. anger and rage and that it leads you.

down a bad path of decision making when. you're fighting. It interferes with the. flow. It interferes with the way. And. like I was saying before, when you're. competing, you know, and I've never. competed at that level. When you're. competing at a world championship level, anything that [ __ ] with your mind, anything where you're doubting yourself. or talking to yourself or all that is. resources that is being allocated. towards something that's completely. useless as opposed to being like. completely in the moment and in the.

zone. If you get taken out of it for a. moment, if they feel for a moment that. you're thinking like you're looking for. a way out, you're looking to quit, you're gone. You're done. Like when your. friend was saying that his son didn't. want to be a fighter anymore, this is my. advice always. Whenever someone says, "I'm thinking about stopping fighting.". I go, "Quit. Quit right now." Because. somewhere out there, there's someone. who's not thinking about stopping at. all. They're going to [ __ ] you up. They're going to come for you. It's. going to they're going to it's going to. be terrifying. You're locked in a ring. with Mike Tyson and you've been thinking. about getting a regular job. Like, yeah,

you're [ __ ] You're [ __ ] because. there's allin people. In my opinion, I I. love fighting, but I think only all-in. people should be fighting. And the. moment you're not allin, get out. You. got to get out because the difference. between an all-in person and a one foot. out the door person is enormous. It's. enormous. Even if skill level is. similar, the the person who's allin is a. terrifying person. They they all they. want to do is this one thing and they're.

completely focused on it. Just being the. best in the world, this one thing. They're gonna find holes in you. They're. gonna find they're going to find your. weaknesses. They're going to push you in. a way that maybe you didn't push. yourself as far in the gym. So, come the. second round, come to third round, you. start breaking down, and they're not. breaking down at all. They're breaking. you down. It's a terrifying place to be. when you know you're not all in and the. other person's all in. So, anybody, if. that was my son, he's like, I'm thinking. about quitting. Like, good. Quit. That's. what I'd say. Quit. Find something else.

you love. Find what you love. You don't. have to do this. But if you're going to. do this, you got to you got to only do. this. This has to be your [ __ ] life, right? Your [ __ ] life. I mean, I. don't want you to be a rock star and a. fighter. Shut the [ __ ] up. You can't be. both. It's not possible. If you want to. do that thing, that thing is your whole. life. There's a I don't have any uh. tattoos, but if I did, Kind of amazing. you got this far without no tattoos. Now. if I did it it's I have a um there's a.

quote it's from Nietze and I wouldn't. normally quote from Nietze you know I'm. not that interested in Nichze but I he's. done he's written some some some. apherisms that I like and whatever. but in our summer. place where we go to there's a little. trail called the Nietze trail and it's. he apparently came up with this mind. which is for anything truly great to. take place there requires and this would.

be my tattoo a long obedience in the. same direction. Oo that's good. So so that's so and I. think of edge when I think of that. I. don't think of me. I'm I'm sort of I'm. just. I'm I'm I just my in I'm just my. curiosity just takes me into place I. shouldn't be. But that long obedience in.

the same direction that's that's what. you're talking about. Yes. Um does it. reply to people to tickling? I always. wonder would it be great if you're I. think the biggest fighter ever and just. little tickle and um it's like maybe. that's that's I don't think that would. work. I think people would have already. tried that totally unaffected. Got to do. it. You're so filled with adrenaline. field tackles. Yeah, you're sparked out. Do you know there was a comedian called.

Ken Dodd I remember from Liverpool when. I was a kid growing up. He had he had a. he had a a feather. He used to just. tickle. people. I'll get the tattoo. You get the. you get the the feather. The feather is. awesome. Oh, it is a funny thing. It. that quote is so accurate. It's it's one. of the greatest quotes of all time. I. think it's a strong quote and and it's. you know it's a person who was he was. pushing. away higher the even the concept of.

higher consciousness for a lot of his. life and yet he managing to bump into. it. There's a quote of his I swear I I. had read but when we were doing the book. we couldn't find it anywhere so I might. have made it up but he was he was. because that's the history of that in. our family. Jamie will find it. Um, well, it's not it's it's a Jamie, it's. it's it's about friendship and I don't. think.

it's I don't think so. But it's the idea. is. that friendship. is it is is deeper kind of wider. It's. less dramatic. um than you know romantic love, but it. is it's it's. somehow the essence of great. relationships is is actually friendship. I think that's niche, but we couldn't.

find it. So, I I may have just made it. up. Got though love be deeper, friendship is more wide from like. Chronicles of Narnia. Oh, I'll take. that, too. Something like that. Thank. you, Jamie. I'll take it. My dad was. funny. Um, he he used to quote this. playright, Irish playright called Sing. You say about because he was suspicious. of nationalism because in Ireland, you. know, you would be because there was a. country was nearly at civil war and.

along sectarian lines. So he used to say. Ireland what is Ireland but the land. that keeps my feet from getting wet. I. thought that's a great quote of sings. So when we did the book surrender book. was. on. So they went off they couldn't find. it anywhere. They couldn't find the. quote anywhere cuz he made it up. Wow. And and it's a great quote and I think. it's okay if you say something three. times it's yours. Right. Yeah. So I'll but you know I'm in a.

band. with my friends and that friendship is. pulled and pushed. and it's difficult and at some point one. of us is usually trying to break up the. band but it's a very deep bond. Can I. say something about that I thought was. really great about the film as well. We. went into the fact that it's a true. democracy in your band. Yeah. It's. annoying, isn't it? But it's but I would.

expect nothing less from you when when. you said that and I wasn't aware of. that. I was like, of course, of course. that's how you would set it up. Well, we. well it's fine to be a democracy, but we. share things. also e the economics. Yes. That's where. you find exactly and and we had a. manager Paul McInness for most of our. life and it was one of these things he. said just don't ever be fighting about. whose song it is and cuz in the.

background it's like I want my song on. the album or I've got two just get rid. of that. Yeah. Just share everything and. make sure that you all feel a stake in. each other. Yes. And and so the arguments in you. two are never about well this is my idea. so you're really stepping on my toes. We've developed I would call a sort of. band. ego bigger than individual egos. Even an. ego as big as mine it this is bigger.

This is even bigger. And uh it's the. quiet ones. But um yeah, I think we. we've learned to just the great we don't. we don't argue about what's very. good. Sorry, we do argue about what's. very good. We don't argue about what's. great. So if we're talking about is that. good that chorus? Nah, that guitar. N. you. But it's all for a purpose. We're. all just talking about it. We never But.

when it's great, people just back off. We just know. It's like greatness has. its own what's the word has its. own brings with it a certain. acquiescence to that thing and then you. learn that very good is the enemy of. greatness. It's not even nextdoor. neighbors like we we used to be with you. two we were really crap or great but. then we got very good very dangerous.

being very good is not helpful because. there's a chasm chasm between what is. very good and great greatness what you. were talking about there back on on. Jimmy Fallon that's a. moment of greatness it it's it's it's. Not which is different from saying we. were great. It was great and and very. good could be just sitting there playing. the song good. It's it's a very fine.

song and these are very fine players but. that could just be very good. It didn't. make that moment that that resonated so. deeply with me that I brought it up. We. we played it multiple times on this. podcast over the years. I I'm I'm really. happy you did. And and that's what the. my friend I forget his name or my friend. that I just met for the first time at. the kitchen table uh who was who had you. know had the guts to say he so.

disappointed because this the recording. of that song was just very good. That's. really what he was saying. Yes. Yes. you. hadn't captured like but I think that. unique moment of the way you guys did it. is what made it so special is cuz you. know Jimmy Fallon's sitting there and. Will Smith is sitting there and you're. just on these chairs and you're singing. on the chair and so you're moving on the. chair and then eventually everything. picks up and you're standing up and.

dancing and the whole crowd like felt. it. It was like this buildup to it. It. all flowed together, but it just I. haven't seen that back, by the way. So, really? No, no, I haven't seen it. I. probably saw it on the night or the next. day. Wow. So, I haven't um uh I sent. that to everybody. Yeah, I sent that to. all my friends when as soon as it came. out online. I was like, you got to see. this. This is Thank you um for for that. But there might be something to do with. the fact that the.

four members of that. band feel equally involved in that song. M there might be and that the the. democracy which is such a pain in the. hole. um is actually one of the reasons that. when you two walks onto a stage people. tell me even if they're. not bands you know they just come along. as guests the hairs come up in the back.

of their neck and I explain actually. that happens to us too it's a strange. thing when we walk out. And it seems to. me, I haven't figured this out, that the the whole the universe. conspires. to break up great relationships, right? You fall in love, it's romantic. It's. because this this is families now. This. doesn't have to be your partner in life,

your wife, your husband, your but. families, kids, everything. It's it's. just the whole world is just seems set. against it them surviving you know all. the it just pulls at it's like gravity. itself you're. resisting and so when you manage to get. through. it and you're standing there in the. forest and there's something going on.

that feels like you've. resisted gravity or whatever forces that. pull you apart. There's something about. it and some nights it's really not easy. and but I mean not the music but the the. friendship and but we we we've we're. through it right now and you you feel it. in these recordings and you'll feel.

us in a way rediscovering each other. That's amazing. I haven't been playing. for that. We just played in London. acoustically at the Ivor Nollas Award. was the first time in five years the. four of us played together because Larry. had a back injury and. um so but yeah, there's something in the. chemistry. Well, there's also the fact. that you guys continue to create because. one of the things that happens to great. bands is they become a prisoner to their. old songs. Yeah. We got to be bit.

careful there. Yeah. a lot of bands like. Ordinary Love. That's what's so. beautiful because that's in the. last is that that's like 10 years old or. something. Something along those lines. Yeah. Which is a mere a mere a minute if. you've been around for we'll be around I. think the first time we met in Larry's. kitchen is it will be 50 years next. fall. Wow. In the kitchen. Wow. Oh, drummer wants musicians, whatever. We.

got We're literally and in the in the. film, you know, we've got the the uh. kitchen table. We got the chairs, you. know, cuz I'm on the road with, you. know, 250 Mac trucks and a space station. and whatever else with you, too. But. here, you could put everything into a. station wagon. It's like a literally a. table and chairs. And the chairs are. Edge, Adam, and Larry. and and I've got. to, you know, I use the the kitchen.

table as operating theater. So, it. starts with the s heart surgery. It's. the it's the um hospital bed where I my. father says goodbye with the to me with. the exploitive and um and it's and it's. the kitchen table where all operas. really begin in the kitchen, don't they? It's like you're sitting there and in. our case it would be me, my father, my. brother, mother's passed and we're just.

it's just male rage in its different. shapes and forms. So I get to to be on. the. road with a table and chairs, but then I. get to bring out the chair. There's. Larry. Uh yeah, there's. Edge. There's Adam. I introduced them as. chairs and it was it was amazing for me. to have. that experience of of doing things and.

telling their story. If their memoirs. come out, I'm [ __ ] But but no, I. really am. But it's over. [Music]. and I'm done with the past. I'm not sure. the past is done with me, but I'm doing. my very best to deal with the past in. order to get to the. present to make this the sound of the. future. So the songs on the next.

album when you. are or whomever you're with or your kids. or whatever are. out the Joshua Tree or whatever it is. park or at the lake here in Austin, Texas and you're listening to our new. album that we will take you somewhere. because it has to be these songs have to.

be they have to be everything or what's. the point, right? What is the creative. process for you when you are when you. have a concept for a song, when you have. an idea like how does it work? Do you do. ideas just come to you? Do you sit until. they come to you? Do you sit in front of. a a pad and write them down? Is it that. has never been an issue? like Edge and. Myself are the sort of song. starters and and I mean he has I think.

we were counting them up the last time. he like 526. uh he said qu 526 songs I have here I. said Edge they're not songs they're. ideas and he goes this one's a song and. I go oh yeah that might be and and I. will have and have stuffed in my phone. and in paper and Air India sick bags and. whatever else I've. written my life and the glimpses that.

you. get and I don't write out of misery. which is great because I know some. people have to be really miserable. before they write I write out of joy a. lot of the time. sometimes I'm I'm writing my way out of. a situation. but but most times I'm writing my way. into. something and. and especially with this next album, I.

just think the world. needs it needs some needs some Yeah. some wild guitar music, but it also does. not need the blues, right? We're in the. blues right now. Yeah. And um Well, we're in danger. We're in danger. But. you you did say on one of your recent. podcasts you were saying hold on a. second still more people got access to. water and heat and or air conditioning.

than have in the history of the planet. So we got got to keep we just don't want. to lose that perspective and we don't. want to you know this. incredible thing in in 20 years if you. think about it. I mean maternal. mortality halved more than halfd and. people coming out of extreme poverty. some of this is China some of this is. capitalism some of this is that but it's. I do I don't want to.

lose the sense of the next chapter could. be our best. and and that's going to need vision. Yeah. And I'm not talking about you. two's new album, but but that is part of. it because art changes the collective. consciousness of a civilization and. songs that really deeply resonate with. young people that have a that that are. great songs that also have a message and. carry with them conversations that.

people have about the songs and about. what's going on in the world. It shifts. consciousness. It shifts consciousness. in a positive way. Those young people. may grow up to become people that aren't. corrupt politicians, that aren't corrupt. congress, that that don't give in to the. lobbyists and the special interest. groups, but really look out for their. constituents and they they get into it. for the right reasons because. everybody's going to be co-opted if you. don't. But you're. right. Yeah, we better be good then. Um,

and you and I, for me, the go-to group. was the Beatles. And Mhm. And I I had. this moment. where Paul McCartney. um picked me up at John Lennon Airport. He was driving the car and brought me. and kind of showed me where the. different neighborhoods of the Beatles. and which was an amazing experience. And. he'd stop and he'd say, "Oh, this is. where this happened and that's and he. said, "Do you mind me telling you this?". And I'm like, "Are you kidding me?" And.

and then he stopped at the traffic. lights and he said, "Oh yeah, that's. where I had like our first real kind of. conversation, you know, with with me and. John." I said, "Hold on a second. I'm a. bit of a Beatle student. Didn't you have. that when you were in the Quarry Men and. such?" He says, "No, no, no, no. It was. different. level." He bought a bar of chocolate and. after the war, you know, chocolate was. really hard to come by. you know, it was. kind of a real luxury. And and he bought.

the bar of chocolate and he didn't give. me a. square. He broke it. Cadbury's milk. chocolate. Broke it in half. And I said, "Oh, so you're into sharing, too?" He. said, "Yeah." And he said, "I don't know. why I'm telling you that." And he drove. on. And I just thought, "Oh, I know why. you're telling me that." Greatest. collaboration. Not just in music, in the. history of music, maybe the greatest.

collaboration in the history of culture. started with half. Wow. They shared, they gave it my mate. Gogi, who I just spoke about the who. knows all about you and knows all about. your your your sport. He taught me everything he had and and. they came you know it was tough at times. as I told you in their house and he just. gave me half of it. Every he got just.

half. So when I were in you two and our. manager McInness says you should share. everything. I was like yeah I've been. sharing. everything. I've been sharing everything. anyway and it's and even now age and. myself we're sitting in our house in our. we we share this place in the south of. France. We've been there for 30 years. All our families kind of grown up there. French are too into themselves to bother. us which is really the way we like it. And um and we sit there and we think the.

real owners are going to come, right? You know what I mean? because we still. we still don't really believe this has. happened to us. And you know what? I. think that's probably right because we. don't really own this stuff. You you you. you get it for a short period and then. you hand it on. I think it I think. something about the four and the way we. share is in the sound of our music. I.

think is that too No, no, no. I think. you're dead. I think that when you you. know and I was just standing there with. a little tambourine Jimmy found and he's. but it's him playing the tambourine. and and yeah there's something again. there's not much scholarship about this. type of stuff that you can read up on. but it resonates right you can feel yeah. I believe it I think there's something. to it it's it's. a you've got you've made decisions that.

have sort of affirmed this. commitment to a higher goal. It's not a. hierarchy of, you know, who's who's the. lead singer, who's this, who's that. It's not who's the big star. It's just. we're all together to do this thing. I'm. in a band where every member of the band. thinks they're the leader. And I think. that's every band. And uh I mean that. and I voted for this. Yeah. and and it's. sort of great and I think it's worked.

out you know and you guys are still. together you know which is also a giant. win you know I mean that's most. difficult run out of road any minute but. but whilst whilst we're whilst we're. running down the road it's it's a it's a. it's a thrill I think that's also what. makes it great is the same feeling that. some the real owners are going to come. like like you never really buy into it. even though it's you And that's that's. real that I think we all should have.

that. And I think if you lose that, you're in trouble. By the way, I think. we should all have that. I I think that. that's right. I call this. uh I'm going to learn some of this from. my wife. He used to say, "Don't, you. know, look up to me. Don't look down at. me as a woman. Look across to me. That's. where I am." Okay? And there was a. lesson in that. about. horizontal relationships rather than.

vertical ones. I I don't have a boss. I. don't want to be a boss. Yes. I'm in I I. have that relationship with the band. that is equal. I have it with my mates. And it's just I it's just the way I I. know it to be the most. efficient. And you know, the boss is the boss. I. mean, Bruce, it's an amazing thing what. he does. And it's it's his vision and.

he's found a team around him to help him. realize his vision. It's like you going. out on on the boards, you write your own. material. It's your point of view. That's not I'm I'm part of I think isn't. there two stories they say in the. cinema? There's the the gang and the man. against stranger comes to town I think. is one.

that's and then there's the stranger. goes off in the Odyssey but usually. there's a gang that's that's a different. story that's a third story maybe I'm in. the gang. Yeah, comedians are in a gang, too. Uh, we're in a gang at a club. We're in. a gang together. Like, we all convene. together. And I mean, I I mean a gang in. terms of like a collaborative gang, too. We work together. We work on ideas. together. We talk about bits together, you know, especially at my place at the. Comedy Mothership. It's set up like.

that. The whole club was set up entirely. for comedians. Completely different pay. structure than any other club. Pays way. more than other clubs do. The comedians. get most of the money. We get most of. the most of the we get the money from. liquor essentially. Liquor and a small. percentage of the ticket sales, but most. of it goes to the comics. And the the. the vibe of the place is not that it's. my place. The vibe is that this is our. place. I I paid the bill, but I.

shouldn't have had that much money in. the first place. It's ridiculous. Like. the whole thing is crazy. Like that you. could do something like this. And if you. could do something like this, you're. supposed to. If you're the person that. for whatever reason the universe has. blessed you with a lot of zeros, throw. it at something fun, let's do it. And so. it's ours. And so there's there's that. in comedy, too. Yeah. You can't Well, it. sounds glib actually as I say it, but. you know, I've live we live. You can't. outgive God. No, it's like, you know, you just the more you the more you. that's and that's what I was saying also.

about the blessing on America. You know, one of the things I do like about some. some of these churches is not the ones. that put pressure on you, but you know, people will give some cash every week to. help with what's going. on, you know, in far away places or. whatever, and they tithe. I think they. call it tithing. And and. it's it's just part of the blessing of. America. It's this Okay. So it's it's.

it's it's. it's less than 1%. It's half of 1% of. the government budget to keep all these. people alive all over the world. They. love America because they love America. They're not going to be a problem for. America. They don't love it. Takes them. away from terrorism. Takes them away. from. anti-Americanism. It takes them puts. points them in direction of freedom. That's a blessing. So if you count your. zeros and you say that's mine, that's.

ours. We're not sharing that with those. people. The definition of neighbor is, oh, it's just next door, right? Be. careful. because because there is a bigger. blessing out there. There's just a. bigger blessing and and it most. certainly is and you it sounds like. you're in it and and and and it is in. the bit, by the way, it is in the. business where you'll see it because. people have have a a great mouth on.

them. I have a big [ __ ] mouth. But. it's not about what you're talking. about. It's what you're doing. It's how. you're living. It's how you It's That's. the YouTube thing is not just about the. songs. It's the It's the way. You did. you use the word way a minute ago? You. said it's the way when you're fighting. Yeah. The anything that takes you away. Sure. What is What did you mean by that? There's a great quote by Miiamoto. Mousashi. This is the guy I actually. have tattooed on my right arm. It's once.

you understand the way broadly, you can. see it in all things. Beautiful. Yeah. And the the concept is. he was the greatest samurai that ever. lived. He killed 60 men in one-on-one. combat with swords. He got to the point. where he was killing people problem. He. was killing people so easily he decided. to stop using swords and he would like. fashion a wooden sword out of an ore. from a boat on the way over to go kill a. guy. So like googie he he was an.

extraordinary human being but he wrote a. book on strategy called the book of five. rings. Yeah. And go read no show the. book of five rings. And it's this book. is all about where is he from? Japan. All about how you from the 1400s. You. you had to be balanced in everything to. be a great warrior. You had to be great. at calligraphy. You could you had to be. great at poetry. You had to be an. artist. You you had to be able to. meditate. You you had to be balanced. You had to know the way. And don't let.

any [ __ ] This is the modern. interpretation. Don't let your ego Don't. let other people's perceptions. Don't. let insecurities in. Don't let any of. these things in. Stay on the way. And. the way is like this way of thought that. once you how you know everybody says how. you do anything is how you do. everything. This was his earliest. version of it. Wonderful. Once you. understand the way broadly you will see. it in all things. It's that nichi this. path to greatness. Once. you realize what that is, like, oh, this.

is this is this intense focus and. dedication to something that could be. applied to anything. You could be apply. you could apply it to being a better. father. You could apply it being to. being someone who writes books. You. could you could apply it to music. You. could apply it to anything. But it's. that's what it is. It's like finding. what the thing is and throwing the. essence of you at that thing. Like. really doing it. And to do that. correctly, you can't have, you know, macho issues. You can't have insecurity.

pro things that you're compensating for. You you have to be pure. You have to. find and it's a constant struggle. It's. a stunning stunning insights in my path. or I suppose or whatever you call them. my practice. I have this I am the way, the truth and the life. this what I. learned from Jesus become a bumper. sticker probably taken the the the. meaning of it away but it's but it's the.

same thing I've got to because when I. focus on this this kind of this this. radical idea to serve you know you know. to rather than to lead to to be no. greater love and all all this stuff. Unfortunately, this language has been. ruined for you guys. I'm so sorry. Kind. of. But no, we can get past that. It's. powerful. Yeah, it's real. And it's and.

and this this Jesus is a long way. from the one that you you meet on these. kind of sales programs and but it's it's. it is humility and it. is it is it is service and it is. discipline and it is not my will thy. will. It is indeed surrender and anyone. wherever they are in the world, Japan in.

1400s or the 15th century wherevery uh. anyone scientists you know the pursuit. of truth it just. gathers there's. um yeah there's there's the there's. there's something about I trying to. think of the word the sort of gathering. where you you you we we will all end up. in the same place if we're. really tr and I'm not talking about life.

after death as like you have to you know. enter a competition but we all we're. we're in the same consilience I think is. the word I think it was I think it was I. don't know who wrote I wrote a book. called consilience but it's the idea. that all disciplines all art forms. everything comes together on a point a. kind of convergence but the word is. consilian. And if it isn't, I just made up a great. word. It's a great word.

Go, Jamie. Well, that that those moments. that were That's the book where great. art hits that peak. Oh, really good. Thank you. That's really good. Jamie's. the best. How did you not off? How long. have I been talking? I mean, three hours. because I this I mean I don't know why. you this my family at this point will be. gone to bed. It' be just the two of us. at the fire. Jamie's locked in. Jamie's. locked in. Like, see you later, dude. That thing though is like what we all. It's what we we know how hard it is to.

reach, too. Like ordinary love. Like. when you guys were doing that, we know. that that's not a first take, you know? That's not like you just wrote the song. and you guys are out there jamming. No, that's that's a polished song. And the. fact that you're doing this and you're. you're you're you're doing it acoustic. right there sitting on a chair like. everything is off, right? Like you're. not on the stage. There's not a. spotlight on you. There's no mist. There's no lights. Like all the. theatrics are removed. You're in a. brightly lit studio sitting down with a.

bunch of people beside you, which is. like the most un rock and roll thing of. all time, right? It's corporate almost. Like no one does that corporate haircut. And yet you [ __ ] nailed it. And it. that moment it took everybody to a. better place. That's what we're all. hoping for in in everything that we're. hoping for that for our from our. leaders. We're hoping for that one. speech, that one JFK speech where you.

just go, "Oh my god." Yes. That's that's. that's the prayer. We don't want to be. Clinton when he was young, he had some. bangers. Obama when he was young, they. had these speeches that made us feel. better about human as human beings, better about the country. That's the. danger of the conflicted times that. we're in is that people don't feel good. even about America. There's people that. think that the American flag is a symbol. of injustice. It's like it's that's a. crazy thought. Like America is you too. It's not just you too, the band, but.

it's all it's it's us. It's all of us. human beings regardless of your. political ideology. And we got to think. of that first. We're a community. We're. a neighborhood. you know, we we should. think of ourselves as a giant. neighborhood, and we don't. We we think. of ourselves as opposing tribes that are. in in this battle to stay in control of. whatever the direction of the country. is. And it's being orchestrated by. artificial intelligence bots that are.

constantly battling with people online. and state actors and intelligence. agencies and money and all this [ __ ] is. together and it's all confusing. everybody as to what is the purpose of. being a human being that's alive with. other human beings. The per the purpose. is community communing. We're supposed. to be a United States. We're supposed to. be a community and all the differences. that we have, the political differences. in the idea, they should be so [ __ ].

secondary that it should be uh a small. part of the elections. A small part of. the election should be policy because we. should just all agree that we should. figure out you want to have a good use. of AI, figure out what's the objective. best use of resources to support the. collective whole and how does that get. accomplished? How does that get. accomplished without fraud and waste? And what's the best way to to navigate. where it doesn't have fraud? That should. be done whether it's Democrats or. Republicans. It should be like, what are.

we looking for? We're looking to clean. up the lakes. We're looking to stop. pollution. We're looking for clean. energy sources. We're looking for. education. We're looking for healthcare. We're looking for housing. We're looking. to get people off the streets that have. mental health issues. And get them help. And don't just give them fentinel and. give them money for needles. That's. stupid. Don't let them camp on the. street. That's stupid. Also stupid. ignoring them, right? That's stupid, too. So, some real resources. And once. we do that, we can all do better. The.

whole country can do better. We'll be. less at each other's throats. There'll. be less anxiety. It could be. accomplished. But we have to address the. the primary factor in this. country for crime and horrible behavior. It's completely disenfranchised. neighborhoods. It's areas that have been. [ __ ] since the 1940s and they're no. they're not doing anything to change. them and no one's pouring any resources. to try there's no plans to try to.

revitalize these communities and elevate. these people out of like dire poverty. and gang violence and and and drug use. There's there's a way to do it. It's not. impossible, but there's no resources put. out it at all. That should be another. thing. That shouldn't be a Republican. thing or a Democrat thing. And why. should we spend money on them? But it. shouldn't be. It should be community. Look, the people who who voted for. Donald Trump, who I'm not a fan of, and. I know you have respect for him, and I I.

respect that. But the people who voted. for him, I have immense respect for them. and their sense that they felt left out. of the American dream. a lot of people. and in so many ways when you know the. world got globalized and a lot of people. did very well out of that particularly. in the global south but everyone in. America I think you.

know a lot of people a lot of. communities paid the price for that and. I don't know what the pie was grown for. NAFTA I think was supposed to be a. trillion dollars it ended up being the. pie was was I think it was one and a. half trillion So there was enough money. to reinvest in communities, but it never. happened. And so people were pissed off. if. if and and I'm and I think we should be. with those people. I'm not sure this is.

going to be the answer that they're. looking for. And if it's not, I would. encourage people, yes, I'm not American. I can I I don't vote. I'm Irish. just. you'll know the I I trust in the wisdom. of crowds. I really do. I mean I mean. you too and I you. know Americans will know and they and. they and they must I I can see where. they're going right now. They're trying. out this new version of themsel and.

where it's where we're where where we're. not interested in the wider world as. much. We're trying to fix our own. problems. I would say they are bound up. in each other and I would say there's a. higher purpose for America than the one. that's being offered presently. But I. don't want to get into the politics. I. think it's an overcorrection. Yeah. I think I just don't you know I I. really hope so because we really really. really need you. the world. We need.

America and this this European project. we we have a land war on the outskirts. of. Europe. It is the most astonishing thing. and and it and we don't know what's. next. Poland, have you ever you know the. Polish people have two million. Ukrainians staying with them and never. complain these are the most remarkable. people you'll ever meet. There's all. that money that was invested in by guess.

who? George C. Marshall, a an an. American general who became Secretary of. State who had the cleverness to say. after the the war the second world war. and I think it was like 4% of the GDP. where it's invested in in the rebuilding. of Europe and the idea was we have to. make Europe. succeed and that's how we will defeat. communism. And so when Ronald Reagan,

you know, pronounced a death sentence on. this the Soviet Union and the. reason Mikuel. Gorbachoff threw his hands up and and. said we've got to this project is over. is because he knew that people could see. it was dysfunctional. He knew that was a. better life across the wall, the other. side of the Iron Curtain. And sometimes. it takes putting your money where your.

mouth is to show what freedom is. America did that. We owe America. And. and we need you. That's all I want to. say. We we need we we need you. And and. together. Wow. There's 450 million. people in Europe. It's like, you know, we don't be fighting with the Canadians, the Mexicans here, right? You put all. this together, this is. formidable. And these.

boring people who are listening to your. probably tuning in now what they. think. They said something about the. goods. country like it. And and he hit the. mushroom. It's like you wouldn't know. You've never been lifted by music, sir. You know, you know, you wouldn't know. You send people to death. build some. baloney up the bum. This is like come. on. It's like you come in. Your time's.

up. And I, you know, I know we want to. rewrite history and all the rest of it, but but you can't do that. We are free. people. And it is great to be free. And. I I I don't want to stop singing songs. about freedom. I want to be it. And. that's what we talked about earlier. That's I think as human beings there's a. constant struggle. I think there's a.

constant struggle to find the path and I. think we go through a series of. overcorrections and a series of going. really far left and really far right and. you know order disorder reorder. That's. a Richard Roars thing. It's part of the. battle of good and evil. There's there's. a thing that's Well, do you believe. there's good and evil? I do. I do. I I. believe it. But I I think it's naive to. think that if evil acts occur, there is. no true evil. I think it's naive and. evil acts are undisputable and the.

concept of evil has always existed. I I. I think there's and we can become part. of it. You've seen it outside a pub when. people the somebody's down, kid goes. down, people are just kicking. You've. seen it at a football match. Well, probably in American football you you. don't, but in in Europe, in football, in. soccer, you see mad violence and it's. like a spirit. You can watch it in a. crowd. Yeah. And and it's we've, you. know, look, we've we've all been part of. it. None, it's not like we're separate.

from it. We can It's an entanglement, right? But rarely is evil so obvious. this great um there's a great book by by. Bulgakov called The Master in the. Margarita. Have you heard about this? No. So, the devil appears in the. rooftops of Moscow and he goes, "Oh, this is going to be fun. Nobody believes. I exist." It's one of the great The. Stone Sympathy for the Devil. I think. that's inspired by him. But this it's.

some it's insidious. Sometimes evil is. harder to spot. But I think we know we. we kind of know it when we when we see. it at full force. We just can't be. afraid of sounding foolish. No. And when. you say that e I think evil is a real. thing. You you can you can't measure it. You can't prove it exists. But you know. that's what I say. You know but science. you know science we we need science. We.

don't need science to prove that evil. exists. We we need religion to suggest. it that it exists and how we might deal. with it and in ourselves first I would. suggest you were talking about fighting. the biggest opponent you it would appear. is your is indeed yourself. You're up. against yourself. I've got to that place. and I'm not a sportsman competent but. just in my own walk I really is wow all.

these people I thought I was you know I. was up against you know in my head it's. it's yourself yes I love this thing of. the way I'm going to remember that and I. love the truth and and I. love I love I love I love being alive I. love the life I'm going And I'm I'm. going to hold on to that. Please do. And. keep doing whatever you're doing, man. I. appreciate you very much. Thank you. Thank you for coming here. It was a lot.

of fun. Absolutely. Loved it. And. absolutely. I enjoyed it. [Applause]. [Music].