Joe Rogan Experience #2263 - Gad Saad

Joe Rogan podcast check it out The Joe. Rogan Experience Train by day Joe Rogan. podcast by night all. day Jo see you again you're gorgeous you. are too You Beautiful Bastard come on. can I read you something oh okay you. want to read me something this is from. my son just before I came on the show hi. Daddy I was wondering if the show will. be live anywhere and tell Joe that I say.

hello and I love his show oh you just. made his life how old is he well last. week was his bar mitzvah oh so he's 13. 13 and it was that's about the age you. shouldn't be listening to my show. yet you used to disturb me uh when I. would meet my youngest daughter's. friends when they were uh before high. school yeah and they would say they love. my podcast I was like geez this is. really not for you like some of these. subjects not for you but the kids today.

they're not 12-year-olds when I was a. 12-year-old yeah these kids have a far. more advanced understanding of the world. for good or for bad yeah probably I mean. I don't know if it's good or bad because. I mean I think our childhood we were. more exposed to things than our parents. were I don't necessarily think that's. bad so why would I think it's bad for. kids today I think the explosion though. is you could go on and see porn that you. and I don't even know they exist yeah it.

is an issue yeah that that most. certainly is a problem but I don't know. um if it's worse or better yeah you know. what I'm saying like I would rather have. the loss of Innocence that I had as a. 14-year-old than the loss of Innocence. my parents had I think they just lived. in a more ignorant time and with. knowledge you're also going to get all. the bad stuff like I see a lot of. assassination videos okay you know it's.

funny you say a the Age of Innocence. because I've always said that the two. things that protect me in life were my. Belgian Shepherds whom I love and I I. saw by the way that you were talking. recently about Belgian malinoa yeah so. my we've my kids have grown up with by. by the way the Belgian malinoa is one of. four types of Belgian Shepherds the only. difference across the four types is that. the Belgian malinoa has short hair. whereas the ones that we had have long. hair they even look more wolfish more. intimidating scary dogs and so anyways. so always said that the two things that.

protect me when I sort of enter the the. sanctity of my home was the love of my. family my Belgian Shepherds and the. innocence of my children because you. know the world out there is ugly and. then you go back home true and so once. that becomes polluted because they just. know more I feel like I'm losing part of. them that's interesting um I don't think. you should think that way I think. they're human beings and should want.

them to know things it's just that we. enjoy the position of being the person. that has all the deep dark knowledge of. the world and dealing with this innocent. child that wants to watch Dora The. Explorer you know Dora you like Peppa. Pig Yeah Peppa Pig all those kind of. shows and there's you know there's. something beautiful in watching a little. person learned stuff about the world and. and shocking when they find out about. like murders and danger and scary things.

and you know and then their their realm. of knowledge expands to you know what. amazes me is seeing my children get a. political Awakening so my son who's. really precocious he's 13 my daughter is. 16 she wasn't as into it but during the. last us elections maybe because of the. Tik Tok stuff and so on she became she. sort of woke up to it and she would come. to me and say you know wh why do we like. Trump why don't we like and so m i saw.

an Awakening in her that my son already. had I mean he literally will sit with me. watch I mean Tucker is no longer on but. he would watch Tucker with me and have. conversations with me when he was 11 12. my daughter came a bit later into the. game but it's so rewarding to see them. wake up to these things and have. meaningful conversations with me on. these topics it was beautiful God I. didn't know anything about politics. blissfully blissfully unaware when I was. 13 is that right right but I did worry. about um Russia when I was in high.

school everybody was terrified before. the fall of Soviet Union we were. terrified that we were going to go to. war with Russia it was like a thing that. was hovering over our head every day. yeah that was kind of all I knew about. politics like Russia bad United States. good Russia bad wants to kill United. States like that's what we were. basically told all the movies like Red. Dawn you know Russia invades America can. I incorporate some professorial elements. to what you just said do so one of my. intellectual Heroes is John.

vanman who was a Hungarian Jewish. polymath he was a mathematician he was a. game theorist and one of the things that. he did he was one of the pioneers of. using Game Theory do you do you know. what game theory is yes in economics. yeah okay yes do you want me to explain. it far please so a classic example of a. of of a game theory context would be the. prisoners dilemma right you you capture. two prisoners you take them apart as the. cops do each of them can either squeal.

confess or not and depending on whether. so there are four possibilities both can. confess one confess the other one so. it's a 2 by two Matrix and there are. different payoffs in each of these. matrices and then the question is what. is the optimal Behavior so that's called. Game Theory because you you use game. theoretic you know framework to model. what should be some optimal Behavior. well in the context of the Cold War. that's when game theory was first being. applied the the Russians can or the. Soviets can can nuke us or or not we can.

nuke them or not and so there were all. these models that were developed so for. example mutually assured destruction is. a outshoot of understanding Game Theory. and so for the ones who are watching the. show John Van Newman is the definition. of how I think an intellectual should be. very broad thinker he can both discuss. mathematics or economics or Game Theory. uh he died I think too young but he got. his PhD at the age of 23 check him out.

John vman wow 23 23 years old from. Hungary incredible W people like that. just make you feel like such a dummy I. mean I was impressed with myself because. I got my PhD at my in my late 20s that's. still pretty good well he beat me by. many many years so I'm a little ant. compared to him it's bizarre when you. see like young teenagers that are in. college already because they've gone. through their entire High School course. by the time they're 14 15 years old yeah.

now 16 they're in college yeah so. strange of course as you know the danger. of that is that you're not at the right. social developmental phase so yes you. can solve calculus really easily but you. can't speak with people who are four. years older than you so you end up being. isn't that crazy yeah so it's it's so. I'm not I'm not sure if I I support this. kind of FASTT tracking because there's. there's an element of just being with. the right people at the right age that. is true but also when you have an. extraordinary mind you you want to give.

that extraordinary mind fuel you you. have someone who caught lightning in a. bottle yeah you know and you you want to. help that yeah I mean maybe there's a. way to do it where the parents come with. the kid to school or something like that. but isn't it strange though that you and. I at our age the idea of talking to. someone four years older than us is like. so what like what's the big deal isn't. it weird like the accelerated learning. that you have as a child is so rapid and. so profound that a four-year age Gap is. nuts well speaking of accelerated. learning uh. my biggest regret I may have discussed.

this with you before or not but uh my. parental regret is that we never taught. our children all of the languages that. we speak at home so so I speak my mother. tongue is Arabic and I also learned. French because from Lebanon and then. moving to Montreal then I learned. English and I also speak Hebrew and then. my wife because she's Lebanese Armenian. she speaks Armenian so between between. the two of us we speak five languages.

but here's the here's the the rub if I. speak to them in Arabic or Hebrew my. wife won't understand if she speaks to. them in Armenian I won't understand so. we just settled on French and English so. rather than them now being these super. exotic you know five language speaking. kids they only speak the very vanilla. French and English yeah but it's still. two well % of to Americans I agree they. don't even Master one language who. barely know English separate versions of.

English you know actually I was slangs. and dialects I was uh I I posted on on X. that I well I was coming to Texas I'm. also soon going to South Carolina to. Georgia to Florida to Mississippi and so. I said if I'm going to fit in in the. South since I'm doing this big what are. some absolute must Expressions that I. must have so the ones I came up with and. you'll add to that I'm fixing to leave. bless your heart bless your heart y'all. y'all all y'all all y'all that's that's.

all I got yeah don't use any of those no. no why no because too cliche they're. going to know you're faking. it they're going to know I'm faking it. because I'm not tall enough to be a. Texan oh there's some short Texans. Fitness isn't just about what you do in. the gym it's also about your nutrition. but even with the best diet some. nutrients can be hard to get and ag1 can. help fill those gaps ag1 delivers. optimal amounts of nutrients in forms. that help your body perform ag1 makes. makes foundational nutrition easy.

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people are like get out of here with. that it's just a weird one and not that. the accent here is so dense like the the. Texas accent is probably much stronger. in the rural areas yeah or in small. cities and stuff like that Austin is. pretty mixed with a bunch of people from. all over the place so I think the just. the even the general Texas accent here. is fairly muted do you agree with that. Jamie does that make sense I mean. there's definitely y'alls are thrown.

around but that's about it right but. it's not a it's not a Texas accent like. you here in other parts of the state. there's other parts of the state you. talk to people like that's a. [ __ ] Texas accent you know what. I'm saying like there's a very specific. way that they talk that's pretty cool. but it's um it's very distinct you know. like makes you know where you're at like. New Yorkers like if you're in New York. and you go to an an Italian deli and. you're talking to this [ __ ] guy and. he's making you a sandwich you know like. my friend Giovani uh like it's this like.

it's fun it's like they're talking the. way they talk it's like it's it's a very. specific way of talking it's cool I was. going to say that you're going to get me. in trouble because I think I mentioned. to you last time that the biggest. trouble I ever faced was two shows ago. when I was here and I made a joke about. the French Canadian accent yes you did. they get very upet at you I am hereby. stating that in nature the most. beautiful auditory orgasm is to listen. to the French Canadian but now they. think you're lying because now you're. learn you're a flip.

fler flip flopper is a weird one to me. cuz it's like wait a minute what do you. do when you encounter new information. that's right don't you change your mind. like this idea that someone who's. running for office especially right it's. always like presidential candidates and. Senate cand that you should never you. should always be consistent yeah which. is so crazy like shouldn't you learn. from new information so in in in. behavioral decision- making and. psychology of decision- making there's a. whole field that studies what are the. types of cognitive traps that people.

succumb to precisely to not alter their. original position and Leon festinger I. don't know if you know he's the he's the. Pioneer who developed the theory of. cognitive dissonance uh and so he has an. amazing quote which I use in one of my. earlier books uh in the parasitic mind. where he basically says the types of. mental machinations that the average. human being will engage in to make sure. that there's cogn nitive consistency in.

his mind because incoming information. that contradicts my anchored position. makes me feel icky so what are the kinds. of mental gymnastics I'm going to go. through to make sure that everything. stays consistent in my mind which as you. might imagine is a is a big obstacle for. me because I'm in the business of. administering mind vaccines to people. right getting them to think properly but. if the reality is that the architecture. of the human mind is not built to change. their positions then I'm up shits Creek.

well if you pay attention to X you will. see you are up shits. Creek especially liberal people on X. like Super Hyper liberal people that are. unwilling to look at any positive. aspects of any sort of Republican ideas. or policies or yeah it's like that's. what they're doing they're doing that. 100% albeit there are a few people that. have come around let's say to Trump no. don't you think oh yeah yeah a lot of. people have but it's like they had see.

you know four years of an awful. Administration to go oh okay wait a. minute I think I think these people are. bullshitting me I think these people are. fully incompetent I don't think that. guy's really the president I think. there's like a bunch of financial. institutions and deep state operatives. that are involved in this whole thing. like and that's when did you see that um. interview with Mike Johnson when uh he. was talking about uh conversations that. he had with Biden about liquid natural. gas I don't think so Biden had signed an. executive order and it limited liquid.

natural oh and then he said I didn't do. that he said didn't do right right and. so he couldn't get a meeting with Biden. they wouldn't let him have a meeting it. took a year before he got a meeting and. there was a bunch of people in the room. in that meeting and he wanted to be. alone with Biden but Biden kicked. everybody out so they had to listen so. when Biden kicked everybody out then he. was talking to him and then he found out. that Biden didn't even read these. executive orders he was gone man we knew. he was gone I said he was gone in 2020. yeah the presidency ages you faster than.

radiation whatever the [ __ ] happens when. you're in that when you have all that. information and all that pressure and. like the whole world's watching you and. then there's [ __ ] chaos everywhere. and a probably a bunch of terrifying. [ __ ] that most people don't have. information on but you do and all a. sudden you have this crazy position like. you age like crazy so he was already. gone four years ago so four years of. getting cooked by being the president. like that poor guy so I tell you. background story uh because we're.

talking about Trump and of course he. came on your show I was speaking to one. of his senior advisers prior to him. agreeing to come on your show and I was. saying you know hey I would love to have. President Trump for a chat and so on he. goes oh that's that's fantastic what. would you like to talk about what what. angle would you like to do uh to pursue. and I said well you know I think that a. lot of people have this wrong impression. of President Trump if if he was given a. long format uh setting where we can just. chat people would see that he's funny.

and he's not this ogre and of course he. came on your show there's no point. coming on my show Once he's been on your. show and I think you did exactly that. with him so that a lot of people several. people that I know who hated Trump after. they sort of watched him on your show. they're like he's kind of cool and so I. that was exactly what I was hoping to do. had I had the privilege of having him. chat with me and of course you pulled it. off yeah that's the only way to talk to. people and I wanted to do that with. Harris too I wanted to be able to talk. to as a human just have a a conversation.

with I know there's a human in there I. know this the whole system's [ __ ] but. I I've talked about this before but. there's this one interview that she does. where she talks about meeting her mother. and father-in-law for the first time and. it's so funny when she talks about her. mother-in-law grabbing her face and goes. oh look at you you she's laughing but. she's laughing genuine it's not that. weird performative laugh that she does. sometimes it's really funny I like. there's a human in there like that would. be fun to just talk to a person do you I.

mean obviously you've spoken to. thousands of people for three-hour. chunks do you think had you had the. opportunity you would have been able to. pull out 3 hours of worthwhile. conversation with her I don't know you. you don't know until you do it you know. it's you don't know also based on. people's conversations with other people. because people are different to some. people they go into conversations like. it's an interview right and so they. don't they don't they can't establish a. flow. right conversation like where you and I.

are having is a dance exactly we're both. moving we're moving we have to like I. actually call it a Tango like literally. it is a Tango it's a Tango it's it's. it's a dance and you have to know that. and some people literally are having. these things and don't know it's a Tango. yeah they think that it's an opportunity. for them to. expose people's flaws or catch people in. viral moments or an opportunity to flex. your intellect it's there's a bunch of.

thing so it [ __ ] with the flow because. as a person listening I want I want to. feel a genuine conversation that's what. I want yeah right and you can get that. out of almost anybody if they're willing. to do it but that you have to be. skillful in how you negotiate it and how. you do it you have to think about it. like it's like a dance so I'm going to. maybe be a bit more un less charitable. than you I I don't think she's cap AP of. doing it because it takes a couple of.

things to be able to do what you just. said number one it takes vulnerability. in that you're laying yourself out there. right now I'm speaking straight without. any script and I might say something. stupid that's going to be caught by. millions of people but I'm willing to. take that chance for the joy of sitting. and chatting with you but if you're. tight and you can't let yourself go if. you don't have the self assuredness to. be able to be vulnerable then you can't. that's why she could only speak in those. little chunks perhaps but it's also. perhaps who is she talking to do they.

have the um the ability to do they have. the personality do they have whatever it. is that allows people to be comfortable. and have a conversation because all. these conversations is just like the way. I talk about like these rambling. speeches that she does which she kind of. rambles on it's because she's I know. what it's like she's trying to Dismount. she doesn't know how to Dismount so it's. pressure right but how is she verbally. when there's no pressure I she's a lot. better everybody is so that's the goal.

the goal is to talk to her like a human. like there was a few things they didn't. want to talk about I said I don't care. we could talk about [ __ ] groceries I. don't give a [ __ ] we talk about flowers. I don't or don't give a [ __ ] I just want. to talk like let's talk you don't want. to talk anybody who doesn't want to talk. about something I don't need to talk to. them about that right you know if you. don't if you've had a UFO experience you. don't want to talk about it like okay. let's talk about ghosts what what do you. think about big I'll find out what. you're about we did you and I talked.

about Bigfoot last time when you. explained to me how you got off the. Bigfoot train yeah I want to believe. that's the problem the problem with. Bigfoot is the same problem that I have. with no I don't believe but it's the. same problem that I have with UFOs the. problem is I am very biased look there's. a [ __ ] UFO right behind me very very. biased I there's a UFO on the desk look. that's the the sport model from um Bob. Lazar what he found in the area S4 Area. 51 okay I I am um I'm a romantic in that.

way I want to believe in stupid [ __ ]. right right I do I so I have to be. careful I have to be careful in what do. I actually believe versus what do I want. to believe like what is the data show me. and the data shows me especially what I. know now from being a hunter for 12. years and spending a lot of time in the. woods and knowing how many people are. out there and how many people have. phones and cameras and how many trail. cameras there are and how many we we.

have like real accurate there's only two. Jaguars that we know of that are in. North America and they know exactly. where they are like you telling me just. telling me this [ __ ] giant ape has. wandered around Seattle without anybody. seeing them right it's just not likely. also there's a bunch of Al reasonable. explanations first of all have you ever. been the Pacific Northwest you've been. up I've been to Seattle uh the woods up. there are fascinating because it's.

essentially a rainforest so there's so. much rain that the forest is dense like. these fingers right like it's like a box. of Q-tips that's what I always describe. it as like there's no spaces it's just. trees everywhere there it's just there's. no like big Open Spaces where you you. know if like you go to Montana you go to. the woods you know there's mountains and. there's trees but there's like space in. between the trees it's expansive there's. no [ __ ] space up there it's a. rainforest it's like this you know see. [ __ ] and bears are known commonly to.

walk on two legs they do it all the time. I've seen Bears personally with my own. eyes I've seen bears in the woods walk. on two legs right they do it all the. time so if you're looking in between all. these trees and. something 100 yards away is going in. between trees and standing up tall you. just saw Bigfoot right meanwhile you saw. a black bear yeah exactly normal. everyday average black bear standing on. its back legs they do it all time and. they could easily be 7t tall so you know.

earlier we were talking about how would. you change your opinion once you have a. position that's anchored yeah so and now. you're saying you know I'd love to. believe in this stuff but then incoming. information comes in and then I kind of. have to accept the fact that I can't. believe this stuff well that in a sense. was the exact topic of my doctoral. dissertation 30 I actually celebrated 30. years in uh 2024 what examples did you. use so I brought in uh subjects into the. lab so let me tell you what the okay.

topic was and then I'll tell you how I. we ran how I ran it so the idea was to. study what are called stopping. strategies which means when is it that a. person has acquired enough information. to stop and make a choice now why is. that important because classical. economic theory argues that if you're. going to maximize your utility when. you're making a decision you should look. at all of the available information you.

can't choose the card that maximizes. your utility if you leave some un. information unturned so that's called a. normative theory meaning that's how you. ought to behave normatively if you want. to be a perfect decision maker rational. decisionmaker but objectively speaking. that's not what we do right like you and. I every decision that we make every day. we don't sample all of the relevant and. available information before we make a. choice we sample until we have. sufficiently sufficient ly. differentiated between the choices that.

you say there's no point in sampling. more information I now have enough. information to vote for Trump I have. enough information to marry this girl to. choose this employee so that's called a. stopping strategy so I was studying the. cognitive strategies that people use. when they're making the stopping. decision and so what I did so to answer. your question of how I went about doing. it I brought in people into the lab and. I made them make sequential binary. choices binary choices means it's a.

choice between two Alternatives. sequential means that they acquire one. piece of information at a time on these. two Alternatives this was done on a. computer and it's called a process. tracing algorithm meaning that it keeps. track of every single behavior that the. decision maker is making it does that in. the background and so what I was looking. at they could acquire up to 25. attributes let's say choosing between. apartments and I was tracking the. cognitive processes that they were using. and deciding when to start stop and. choose Apartment A or choose Apartment B.

and then later I applied that to other. types of decisions for example mate. choice right so you could apply for. anything you could apply choosing. between uh Fitness instructors choosing. between political candidates to to vote. for for anything right the reason why. it's binary it's because it only. operates once you're down to two final. Alternatives you might have used another. process to go from 10 Alternatives like. let's say the primaries in the US system. we first go through. Republican primary then we choose one.

final one and then we go through. Democratic uh primary we choose one and. then the final two go head-to-head. that's when my model comes in and so my. model really explains how we make. decisions across a bewildering number of. cases specifically how we stop and say. I'm marrying her I'm hiring him I'm. voting for him so it was a big a big. deal so a a Tipping Point of information. like when you have enough information to. make uh. rational quality decision exactly so.

what you do actually is you set I mean. if if I could show it to you on a curve. it would really be cool it's you set you. set a what's called a differentiation a. differentiation threshold which. basically says that I have now. sufficiently teased apart the Mazda and. the Toyota that I've hit that threshold. that I'm sufficiently convinced that. that decision would never be overturned. even if I sampled all of the remaining. information that's a good example a good. example because when people are looking.

at cars and they're trying to figure it. out like you and you start going over. especially today start going over all. the details and different things they do. and then you get online like what's more. reliable you know yeah and some some. people use What's called the core. attributes Uris which basically is. there's only there might be 60. attributes that I might look at in a car. but I really care only about four. attributes I will sample those four. whichever car is ahead after those for. I'll buy that car and so I studied all.

of those decision rule strategies what. about emotions though doesn't that play. in there I great question so later once. I had gotten my PhD I started. incorporating various types of emotional. states to see where people shift those. stopping thresholds so one thing I did. it never got published and we can talk. about that so I look I wanted to look at. what happens to those stopping. thresholds for this for do you know what. dysphoric mean like gender dysphoria no.

not gender dysphoric emotion so. dysphoria is like a mild state of a. clinical depression it's not I'm going. to kill myself but my wife left me my. dog died life sucks so that's called. disphoria it's the opposite of euphoria. so there is a psychometric scale that. you could administer to people to. measure their dysphoria scores and so I. wanted to see whether non dysphorics. people who don't suffer from dysphoria. would make their stopping decisions in a.

different way than dysphoric and I. didn't have any ariary. hypothesis why because the literature. was very confused some theories said. that this Forex by virtue of them being. helpess and apathetic life sucks will. actually acquire less information before. they commit to a choice then there was. another school of thought that thought. no this foric are so helpless that one. of the ways that they can gain control. over their lives is to look at more.

information so because I couldn't come. up with any ariary hypothesis and being. an honest scientist I said I'm not going. to posit any hypothesis I'm just going. to run it and see what I get so I think. I had 18 different measures that were. comparing the D maybe maybe 17 measures. that were comparing the dysphoric to the. non-dysphoric on of which on 16 out of. the 17 I Got No Effects right now that. to me was worthy of publishing mean. meaning that in this particular task.

dysphoria doesn't seem to moderate the. behavior I send it to the stop Journal. actually called cognition and emotion. you asking about emotion the editor. writes back to me G gorgeous study. beautiful design beautiful unfortunately. given the number of null effects you got. I can't publish it now this is literally. called in science the null effects bias. or the drawer which means what you only. end up publishing findings that give you.

an effect and you put into The. Disappearance bin all of the findings. that didn't get any effects so when you. then run a metaanalysis do you know what. a meta analysis when you run a meta. analysis it's not an actual accurate. depiction of the totality of findings. because all of those null effect studies. were never published and so I tried to. tell the the psychologist in question. who by the way several years later he. was at USC and was hounding me because.

he's a super wster I couldn't believe. how much he fell in my esteem but. anyways that's a separate separate I. won't even mention his name although. he's worthy of being shamed on The Joe. Rogan show and I wrote to him I said but. I really think that you know you're. succumbing to the null effects bias. because I really it's worthy to publish. this this was I think in 1998 it's. information it's information that is. worthy of the the certainly the. scientific Community should know about. it. well I probably one of the first times.

I've ever discussed it was on the show. so hopefully at least it gets that. attention but it's not in the record. what a shame that is a shame this. episode is brought to you by zip. recruiter it's that time again where we. all look ahead and plan out what we want. to accomplish in the new year there's. the usual resolutions like wanting to. travel more get a promotion or get. healthier which I think is a good thing. to do any time of the year if your goal. is to hire more talented people for your. business though you've got it pretty.

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candidate within the first day see for. yourself go to this exclusive web. address to try zi recruiter for free go. to ziprecruiter.com Rogan again that Zip. recruiter.com. oan Zip recruiter the smartest way to. hire it's interesting that one of our. biggest hurdles is the human ego does. not want us to ever be wrong right it's.

a giant hurdle and human beings for. whatever reason I guess it's part of the. motivation of acquiring information and. of advancing your ideas we attach. ourselves to. ideas and one of the things that I. always tell young people like if you. want to if you want to do better in life. and not get tricked by your own [ __ ]. don't be married to your ideas ideas are. just ideas you are not your your ideas. ideas are some things that you [ __ ].

around with in your head and you explore. and you talk about with friends but you. have to always be honest about them and. never be attached to them yeah the. problem with ideas is that ideas are. just like everything else human beings. grab them and they're stingy and they're. like mine and I want my idea to win and. you'll lie so your idea wins and it'll. Advance your career if your idea wins. and if you can even if you can unfairly. dis miss or you you can be you can be.

unethical and how you're ignoring. certain aspects of data for your. opposing ideas like people do that and. succeed because of that because. Academia uh rewards them the media. rewards them especially you know if they. can publish in a the New York Times or. something like that like if they can. make a story like you get rewarded for. lying yeah so I can tell you at million. I mean this is my 31st year as a. Professor I can read a paper and I can.

just by looking at how clean their. presentation of the data is tell you. that they cheated because the the the. structure of the reality of data is. never as clean as how it is presented in. many of these journal and then by the. way not not to sort of tap myself on the. shoulder but some of the top people that. I'm that I know who ended up getting. caught for fabrication of data I was in.

private circles saying I bet you 80% of. this guy's research is [ __ ] and then. it comes out to be the case because I. I'll give you I'll give you an. example so I did a study and speaking. about being wetted to your ideas so I. had a graduate student that worked with. me on a really really cool project which. we ended up publishing in 2009 gorgeous. paper on testosterone and so on really. beautiful paper I noticed that as we. were getting ready to run these. studies there was always a delay where.

he wasn't yet ready to kind of cast the. die and so one day we had gone for. coffee I said you know what I think I. think that maybe you're afraid that if. right now in the rarified world of us. having just posited the hypothesis but. not run the study we live in a world. where we it hasn't been falsified yet so. you're we're you're wetted to the idea. but you I think you're scared that if we. run the studies and the data doesn't. come out in support then the but guess.

what it doesn't matter because we're. going to reap some benefit from that. well true and he looked at me and he was. like actually you're exactly right. Professor I'm afraid to find out whether. we're correct or not I said just let's. do it it was actually a study on uh so. there was two parts of the study and I'm. not sure if I've ever discussed it with. you so I wanted to look at what happens. to men's testosterone levels when they. engage in Acts of conspicuous.

consumption and what happens to men's. testosterone when they see other men. engaging in Acts of conspicuous. consumption and the general story as you. might imagine is when I engage in an act. of conspicuous consumption my. testosterone goes up because I I I had a. social win and when I see you who's a. competitor to me getting into your fancy. Maserati then my tail goes between my. leg so you feel bad so my testosterone. goes down so we designed two gorgeous. studies we ran them it was gorgeous it.

was beautiful by the way I always joke. that for study one we actually had. people drive a Porsche that we rented. and a beaten up old uh sedan and after. each driving condition we took salivary. assays so that we could measure the. testosterone and I always joke try to. get from a granting agency research. funds so that you could rent a Porsche. now only when you can do you're a good. scientist anyways and so we ran the.

studies and several of the hypotheses. that we. posited turned out to be vertical but. several were falsified but to the credit. of the editor unlike the other guy he. found value in even the the findings. that were contrary to what we had. expected because we had an post Haw. explanation for why it didn't work out. and so listen to everybody who's an. aspiring scientist always be honest. don't fudge the data don't go back and.

pretend that you had hypothesized the. stuff after you see what the data. results are oh is that what they do oh. tons tons as a matter of fact I human. ego human well that's that's I told this. whole story to your point exactly yeah. it's awful it's awful because we rely on. Experts yeah and a lot of times experts. are just like everybody else they're. competing with these other experts and. they're trying to get ahead and they're. willing to [ __ ] and also there's. Financial reward and [ __ ]. there's people that would like them to. [ __ ] a little bit it make it a lot.

easier for us to pass this thing that. we're trying to do you do a little. bullshitting exactly yeah I I I'll add. something else actually I'm going to I'm. giving a talk at one of the universities. here in Austin as part of this trip and. I'm going to talk about the so I'm old. enough at this point of all I'd like to. think that I'm still have many years. left but uh that I can sort of look back. at you know what are some of the great. things that I've faced as a professor. what are some of the things that that. I'm disappointed and probably the number. one thing that most disappoints me in my.

fellow academics and I don't mean that. as a hottie thing is how. non-intellectual most of them are most. of them are just playing a game I mean. obviously they're intelligent they're in. the sense that they've gotten a PhD. they've gotten a professorship they they. they are staying your lane professors. they know their little methodology but. you can't sit with them at a party and. talk about things that is not within. their areas of specialty they're not. these big polymaths they're not Leonardo.

da Vinci and so that has disappointed me. because sort of my fantasy of becoming. an academic was that every Friday for. Shabbat dinner I'd be inviting all of. these intellectual colleagues of mine. and my children will be growing up. hearing the art historian and the. mathematician and the and and and my. children and I are immersed in an. endless orgy of ideas all day whereas. most most professors are just sort of. mundane publish or perish get tenure.

game the system and so that left me with. a very and that's why I do my thing. because I I don't play those games and. so that's been disappointing well that. competition it creeps into Medical. Science as well and the really scary. thing I was see reading about this case. where this doctor was treating people. for cancer that didn't have cancer he. was giving chemotherapy to all these. people that didn't have cancer and um. and when they confronted him one one of. the things that he said is you have to.

eat what you kill in this business wow. so it was essentially he was saying in. order to thrive as a cancer doctor he. had to diagnose more people with cancer. than actually had cancer and he was in. some way just and if not justifying. explaining the thought process that led. him to do this which is so crazy to. think unbel but that's the reality of. being a person it's like you're your ego. and your mind and the justifications.

that you can make for doing certain. things I mean this is why we have War. right this this is what war is the. ultimate expression of that. justification of the most horrific. things yeah because you believe it's the. right thing to do exactly or because it. benefits you or because if you don't. something's going to happen you know and. well I I always say and you you might. have seen me post it often on X I always. say the most d ous force in nature our.

parasitized minds yeah right it it's I. mean the tsunami is is devastating but. it's a one bleep well what's interesting. about you and your work is you predicted. essentially the entire. covid reaction and and the freak out and. the woke mob the the whole the whole. left freak out way before it was going. on you caught like the first sounds of. the drums in the far distance you're. like guys we got to get the [ __ ] out of. here and everybody's like relax I don't.

hear any drums and you're like dude I. heard drums I heard Viking drums that is. literally my autobiography yeah well. that's what you did you really did do. that you you you were way ahead of it. and you were widely criticized by a. bunch of those people who turned out to. be these woke [ __ ] they eventually. fell into the trans and they all you. know put their [ __ ] bios and their. gender bios and their Twitter trans t r. a n c yeah the but they fell into the. trans of trans t t r ANS well trans was.

just the ultimate expression of this. Preposterous idea yeah this inclusion. like this idea that the more suppressed. you are or the more maligned you are the. more social credit we have to give you. and this is in the name of equity so we. bump a biological male who thinks he's a. woman ahead of actual biological women. to the point where it's like literally. victimizing women and we ignore it we. try to pretend it doesn't happen whether.

it's in schools or it's like in the. workplace and that's that's the ultimate. expression of this ability to completely. ignore reality because it doesn't align. with your ideology well so I have some. good news not phenomenal news but in the. same way that there's now this. cataclysmic change that's happening. because of trump and so on you know Dei. is out and so on I'm definitely seeing a. well certainly a gr number of. Institutions that are reaching out to me.

who are suddenly very interested and. keen on speaking with me well that's. good yeah so that's wonderful and and. not in a in a gleeful sense of hey I was. right but in the sense that well hey you. were right first you were right no but. we're we're we're redirecting the ship. people are waking up so it's not just. about me and uh you know so like this. year I'm I'm a visiting professor and. Global Ambassador at Northwood. University I took a leave from my home. University iiv because I couldn't stand. the Hamas crazies and so on and you know.

if you go to that school you'll be hard. blessed to see one parasitic idea that's. great there are you know University of. Austin here is trying to do big things. there are several other schools how's. that going it's it's coming along uh. there are I mean it it it had hit a bit. of a couple of obstacles but I think. things are uh moving on track now now is. the idea behind the University of Austin. I only peripherally know what going on I. know they brought in a lot of very. interesting people that are going to be.

a part of it and Barry Weiss is a big. part of it yeah she's on the board of so. but but what are they trying to do are. they trying to have a real University. like every other university where you. get accredited completely real. University actually they're now I think. they just uh admitted their first class. of 2028 fully fully accredited and the. idea is to return to Broad classical. liberal not in Liberal in the political. sense but like you you read the ancient. Greek. stories you you know you read Homer you.

read uh you read Socrates and Aristotle. like real basic education without any of. the parasitic stuff but I don't it's not. just an anti-woke school it's a return. to that broad education I mean you know. I was reading some of the stuff that the. founding fathers write and not no. disrespect to Kamala Harris or Joe Biden. when you read stuff that Thomas. Jefferson and George Washington and. James Madison wrote those were men of.

letters MH right right I mean they they. can they can quote Cicero and you know. and so on well I think what university. of Austin I I haven't gone to visit yet. but from my understanding is they're. they're trying to create students who. are really well read well you know have. critical thinking abilities so it's not. just a correction to the woke stuff but. let's let's return to meaningful. well-grounded all-encompassing education. and if they pull it off what a great.

thing yeah education is not supposed to. be just indoctrination it's supposed to. be giving you a broad perspective on a. bunch of different ways that people look. at the world and what we know about the. world that's a fact yeah and you're. supposed to be able to form your own. conclusions the way you're supposed to. be able to do that you're supposed to. see people of different ideologies. debate and have conversations about. things you're not supposed to pull fire. alarms and and shut people off because. you don't like what they're saying. you're supposed to have someone from. your side who can calmly and reasonably.

and you. know in a in a way that's encouraging to. other people to think the way they're. thinking yeah like you you have to be. persuasive there has to be something. about what they're saying that go wow. that guy's making some really good. points or wow she just shut all that. down now I'm thinking about it. differently like you don't that's like a. beautiful part of education is that you. might have some like there how many. people there like wasn't Ronald Reagan. at one point in time I think Ronald. Reagan was like he was he was so.

left-wing that he was investigated by. the. government see if that's true I think I. think I've read this that Ronald Reagan. at one point in time was like a hardcore. lefty well he certainly was Lefty I. don't know how hardcore but yeah I think. he was a hardcore Lefty and I think he. was I think during the McCarthy era I. think somewhere around then I think he. was even investigated yeah okay I think. I think that's true not not sure if that. that it was during the McCarthy era but.

he was a really hardcore leftwing he. changed his mind people and how do you. change your mind you change your mind by. evidence by interacting with people that. have different opinions that you didn't. consider before and now you do and you. have to be honest about your ideas and. mold them over in your head and figure. out why do I think this way now so one. one thing about uh sort of this broad. education I was mentioning earlier John. Van Newman who's this kind of polymath. he's an expert in so many things he's a. generalist you Joe many of the biggest U. scientific Innovations have happened at.

the intersection of interdisciplinarity. because many of the biggest scientific. problems necessitate expertise in many. different domains so the mapping of the. human genome could not come from only. one discipline it took biostatisticians. and biologists and geneticists and bio. all kinds of different expertise to put. it all together right and so one of the. things that I've been trying I mean. certainly in my own research I you know. I publish in medicine and in marketing.

and in Psychology and in Behavioral. Science and evolution uh I I've lived my. life as an interd disciplinarian but we. don't train our students to be this way. right you are a accounting major you are. my stay in your lane stay in your lane. you you stay in your Silo as a matter of. fact our universities are. architecturally designed so that we. never speak to people who are if you in. the psychology department you never talk. to someone from the finance department. but what if we were to speak to each. other to study the psychology of.

personal finance and now we've just. created a Synergy that we never thought. of before right so one of the things. that I'm hoping to do with some of the. universities that are now interested in. you know making me an offer is to build. something that I've long dreamt of which. I call the The consilience Institute. consilience have we ever talked about. consilience on the show I don't know. okay so even if we have let me repeat it. uh so consilience is a term that was. sort of reintroduced into the vernacular.

by EO Wilson who's a he recently passed. away a Harvard anthologist he studied. social ants in the late 90s Joe he wrote. a book called consilience colon Unity of. knowledge so consilience refers to are. you able to create links between. different disciplines can you create an. organized tree of knowledge so he was. arguing as I believe as well that. evolutionary theory is the meta. consilient framework that can link many.

different disciplines so for example you. could study literature using. evolutionary theory and this field is. called darwinian literary criticism and. can you guess what that might mean or. you want me to just jump jum okay so. darwinian literary criticism means when. you study certain literature narratives. that have stood the test of time the. reason why they tickle our fancy is. because at their base they have certain.

Universal themes that map onto key. evolutionary right paternity uncertainty. sibling rivalry romantic jealousy so in. other words there are six seven eight. key evolutionary templates that drive. much of the great literature whether it. be Arabic literature whether it be. ancient Greek literature whether it be. Japanese literature there's always that. same template and that's why they they. cater to our sent that's why I could.

understand what an ancient Greek poet. had wrote 2,500 years ago and I I get. what how he's feeling jealousy because. you and I are running on the same. softwares that that guy did and so that. would be called darwinian literary. criticism you could apply evolutionary. theory to architecture okay so I'm. trying to give examples that you. wouldn't have thought of so Architects. usually are trained in how to design. buildings to minimize cost and maximize. the speed with which you can build a.

thing they're not trained to design. buildings that are consistent with our. biophilic nature biophilic means love of. nature so there are certain. architectural designs that actually make. us be more productive here's a simple. example just having more windows. increases productivity as a matter of. fact there's a great study that was. published in maybe nature or science one. of those two journals in 1984 I think. where the researcher did only the. following experimental experimental. manipulation half the people who had.

just done a surgery were placed in a. room with a window and the other half. were placed in a wind in a room without. a window everything else is controlled. it's the same surgery everything else. was controlled the one that was in a. room with a window had many better. outcomes different metrics just that one. manipulation being able to see the light. right so so there are all so by the way. there's a field called biof. architecture which tries to incorporate. our innate love of nature in the design.

of architectural you know buildings or. interior spaces and so on so that would. be another example of using evolutionary. theory in a completely different field. you can use evolutionary theory in. medicine you could use evolutionary. theory in consumer behavior and so I. argue that we can build an Institute. called The consilience Institute where. filmmakers from from Hollywood can come. to this institute and do a six months.

stage studying about how to develop cool. scripts that adhere to evolutionary. principles and uh evolutionary computer. scientists can also come in what's. unifying all of us is an understanding. of the importance of evolutionary theory. in these very dis desparate disciplines. that's fascinating pretty cool stuff huh. it's very very cool stuff because it's. it's always so interesting to think of. what what are the motivations of human. thinking and.

how where where where do we trip on. ourself where do we trip on our own just. our own programming essentially I we're. essentially operating with a A system. that was in place back when we were. Hunter and gatherers we have the same. system and that's by the way called in. evolutionary medicine what you the exact. word you just said it's called the. mismatch hypothesis the argument is that. many of and I know you're very. interested in health so I think you like. this this is uh this is not my research.

this is from other evolutionary medical. guys I think the top nine. killers in health are related to the. mismatch hypothesis which means that. something that could have been perfectly. adaptive a hundred years ago in the. modern world becomes maladaptive so for. example and hence the mismatch so. whether it be colon cancer or diabetes I. abetes or heart disease or so on what. ends up happening with each of these.

diseases is that misalignment between. what was evolutionary adaptive back then. and evolutionary maladaptive now creates. that health condition let me give you a. concrete example we've evolve the taste. buds the gustatory preferences to prefer. fatty. foods whether because of caloric. uncertainty caloric scarcity that makes. perfect evolutionary sense when as a. hunter gatherer I have to spend 30,000. calories to go out and hunt and I may.

not return with game but then when I do. get the the the game then I I gorge on. that meat because I don't know when I'm. going to eat next right in today's. environment of plentitude I don't face. caloric uncertainty and caloric uh. scarcity I become fat I overeat because. that mechanism of gorging on fatty foods. still is in me so we still have that. mechanism but it becomes maladaptive and. so. incorporating an evolutionary lens into.

medicine often ends up with completely. different medical interventions than. that which the typical physician who's. not trained in evolutionary medicine. would have come up. with that makes sense yeah well. unfortunately so many doctors don't even. take into account so many factors in. health yeah and this thing that you're. talking about this uh desire for fatty. foods is uh that's a great example and. you know one of the best ways that.

people have found to sort of mitigate. the effects of that is to only eat. protein when you go on one of those. carnivore diets one of the things that's. so interesting about it is you naturally. limit the amount you eat yeah your body. achieves sort of a homeostasis with your. food because you're not consuming like I. I can sit down and eat a steak a steak. alone and I'll be fine but if there's. mashed potatoes sitting right there with. gravy or there's some pasta or there's a.

piece of bread with some butter like. I'll go in I'll go in but if I'm only. eating steak I don't feel the need to. eat anything else yeah I'm fully. satisfied I'm not starving and know like. oh my God I need more food it's like. I've had plenty of food but ooh that. looks good and that is just the trick. that's the trick but if you can get past. that trick and just be disciplined with. your diet and eat as much as you want of. eggs and fish and meat and you will lose. weight like in a shocking way and you'll. feel a lot better and it's kind of kind.

of disturbing so are you are you on an. all protein diet right now I'm I'm like. 90 plus per only meat 90 plus percent. every now and then I'll eat a cookie. like I'm not ridiculous I'll have tacos. if they you know I love tacos good solid. Mexican taco right but it's like I know. the reality of what food is dessert is. just fun it's just mouth fun it's just. mouth pleasure so it's like oh this is. so good good tiasu is delicious I love. it but that's just because I enjoy life.

I like I like going to a restaurant and. a great chef Cooks you a great meal I. don't think oh my God there's gluten in. it I'm not doing that for nutrition I'm. doing that for enjoyment this is for. passion and love and a glass of wine and. you know good conversation with friends. and you know eating delicious food. you're just enjoy you're taking part in. a pleasurable experience that's. essentially art that was created by a. chef right so that's to me but when it. comes to food like what what do I use to.

to fuel my body it's mostly meat mostly. Wild game meat and and ribeye steaks. yeah that's what I eat I had a riye. yesterday at my hotel I need fat I need. a lot of protein and then I'm good and. if I just eat that my brain operates. better my body feels better less. inflammation the brain fog's the. craziest one when I went back to the. carnivore di I took a lot of time off. and then I went back to it I was telling. Jamie I was like dude I feel like I have. like a whole another gear like. intellectually like iing I'm not I don't.

search for thoughts as much when I'm. eating only like that it's palpable you. feelable yeah well for me it's it's. because I have so many conversations. with people I know when I'm off I know. when I'm like oh I'm slow like if I just. flew in from [ __ ] Italy or something. like that I'm tired yeah and I'm jet. lagged it's a little harder to get the. gears turning you I don't feel like I'm. at my best and I always notice the. difference when I'm eating well always. right what are your thoughts on uh and I.

know very little about this so I'm. really asking you cuz I I don't know. anything about it all that OIC stuff are. you are you for it are you against it. what's I think if you're morbidly obese. it's probably a good idea to do. something that helps you get going. because even if the side effects are bad. it's better than you're going to die bro. you're dying if you're 500 lb you're. [ __ ] dying you have all the. comorbidities you probably have diabetes. you probably have all sorts of [ __ ]. wrong with you you can't be that big and. if the if you just don't know what to do. and you don't know where to turn and. your habits are so deeply ingrained in.

your psyche that you can't pass up ring. dings and you can't stop eating sugary. cereal or whatever the [ __ ] it is that's. your thing ozempic is probably a good. way to get going uh you know I wish. people would just get going with. discipline and they would just get going. with food choices I I would like that. but godamn that's hard especially if. you're so far down the road cuz it takes. a long time you know when someone you. know says like how do you stay in shape. I'm like because I stay in shape yeah so.

that's the thing right I'm 57 years old. but I worked out like this when I was 17. yeah so like I don't do anything. different I keep this thing going I keep. the party rolling and I never let it get. fat because I I've gotten fat before but. never out of shape I just gotten fat. because I ate too much food right I've. never gotten to the point where I wasn't. fit I wasn't exercising I don't think. you should ever let yourself get there. because it's too [ __ ] hard to get. back now if you've gone 39 years of your. life doing nothing and just eating. potato chips and drinking Mountain Dew.

and now you're 500 lb you don't know. what to do you're looking at a long. journey you're looking at a long journey. to getting healthy again it's a long. road and it's hard to do a long journey. because you're not going to see it every. day you're not going to see any results. you're going to look in the mirror. you're still see your all this extra. meat and fat you're going to be. disgusted with yourself you want to look. like the guys at the gym it's going to. take forever well I wonder I mean I. guess we can calculate that but for. every amount of weight that you put on. or lose what's the ratio of the speed.

meaning it it only takes me 3 weeks to. put on 10 pounds if I eat badly that's. supposed that that number were three. weeks what's the number the temporal. number the time number of how long it. would take me to lose 10 pounds it's. probably three four five times that so. that there's well it depends on what. you're doing okay so it depends on how. you're losing the weight and it depends. on are you doing are you do you have. multiple things going on simultaneously. like have you started exercising have.

you stopped uh drinking sugary sodas. have you changed your diet completely. are you getting enough sleep right all. those things factor in getting enough. sleep is a giant Factor one of the times. that people make the worst food choices. is when they're tired yes I know that. for a fact if I come home from the. comedy club and it's like 1:00 in the. morning and I'm hungry I'll [ __ ] eat. everything that's there I eat everything. D I'll eat cookies I'll eat whatever the. [ __ ] I want cuz I'm like I want to eat. what I want to eat right now I'm good. most of the time tonight we're having. spaghetti you know I'll cook a pot of.

spaghetti but the tired is one but it's. like what are you what are you doing to. mitigate this and have you changed your. mindset and if you haven't if you're. kind of dabbling and losing the weight. how long is it going to take it might. take a long ass time you might not ever. lose it you can't you have to like get. into calorie deficit calorie deficit is. hard so here's the thing though you. can't start yourself cuz some people do. it the wrong way they go too extreme and. they [ __ ] starve themselves and which.

is [ __ ] dangerous it's dangerous it's. dangerous for your heart it's dangerous. for your mind it's dangerous for your. body your body starts to eat itself you. know there's a a process what is it. called autosis what it called I forget. what the process is called um where your. body starts eating its own tissue to. stay alive and uh that's what people are. doing when they're on OIC unfortunately. and this this is the thing where people. that are just a little overweight that. get on it disturb the [ __ ] out of me. like you lazy [ __ ] just go to the.

goddamn gym you lazy [ __ ] you're 10. pounds overweight and you're going to. get on OIC that's so crazy autop that's. what I thought that's what I thought you. were talking about yeah wait go go back. to that again body breaks down its own. tissu survive it's called l i I never. heard that word before maram Mar Maris. marasmus marasmus or muscle atrophy can. happen when your body's PR nutrients or. oxygen or when cells are damaged so here. listen so remember earli I was saying.

how you can incorporate evolutionary. thinking into all kinds of areas so. there's this these great studies that. were done looking at how the human mind. can be tricked because of its desire for. variety seeking and then I of course I. offer an evolutionary explanation for it. but let me tell you the two studies that. I have in mind I think because when you. mentioned spaghetti it it triggered that. in my head so in one set of studies they. took I think it was M&M's and you know. M&M's can you could make you could. create a bowl with only one color M&M's.

or you can create a bowl with many. colored M&M's that colorant objectively. speaking doesn't alter the taste it. doesn't alter the smell so it is only. perceptually it affects it in that your. eyes see a different color but it. doesn't alter the gustatory experience. and it turns out that when you offer. people the multi colored Bowl they eat. more they eat more I wonder if um people.

that are color blind make better food. choices you just there there's your. there's your research project it's kind. of interesting right that's kind of cool. that's but some things that are brightly. Co are really good for you you know like. Peppers yeah like bell peppers you know. like pretty bright red and they're. pretty you know apples sure oranges. although there are some cases where and. I want to talk about another variety you. can study in a second but there are some. cases where colors and nature are called. this was actually in my first book in. 2007 I talked about aposematic coloring.

do you know what that means sure that's. to warn you from exactly so then you you. and then I use it to explain the the. hair coloring of all the wers I say that. that's a form of aposematic hair. coloring so so check this out so the the. Amazonian frog that lives in a very. dangerous neighborhood you'd think that. it would evolve camouflaging and yet you. could see it from a satellite it's so. bright yellow or red because it's saying. hey idiot if you could see me you want.

to sort of stay wide of me I'm not even. trying to hide that's how dangerous I am. here's the beauty of nature another. species will co-opt that coloring scheme. and it will evolve it but it's. completely harmless but people but the. Predator doesn't know which is which do. you get it ah yes right so I I I use. that mechanism when I'm talking about. deceptive signaling and I use it in the. context of deceptive branding where.

people Canal Street in New York City is. all about you going and buying a Prada. bag that should be $5,000 but hopefully. if they faked it well I can buy it for. $50 and so so that's how I take all of. these biological examples and try to. apply them in economic or consumer. decision-making but let me go back to. variety seeking please do so you. mentioned earlier spaghetti so they did. another study where they took the exact. same pasta and they either gave it to.

you in a plate of one shaped pasta or in. a plate of multi-shape but it's the same. pasta so it it doesn't change anything. but I can give it to you whatever it's. called fella or this and I guess you can. guess what they they ate more when it's. the multiform pasta even though interes. Isn't that cool you know what's. interesting too you just brought up. Brands like brands are interesting it's. really fascinating how brands have. status attached to them and people are. so attached to acquiring these brands.

that they'll have fake ones of course. and the fake bag thing to me is the. nuttiest one because it's just a bag. it's not a fake Ferrari like if you if. you buy a fake Ferrari you're going to. notice the moment you start D this. thing's a piece of [ __ ] right it's not. going to handle well it's going to sound. terrible won't be fast a real F it's. like the re what you're buying you're. you're paying for the engineering of. this magnific piece of technology well. most most people are buying the show off. so they're doing that too but rich.

people aren't stupid all right the. reason why Ferraris are so expensive and. they sell so many of them is because you. buy them you go holy [ __ ] it's worth it. the reason why it developed this brand. status is because they win races right. that's why Lewis Hamilton drives for. Ferrari that's why they that's why they. sell Ferraris cuz Ferraris are the [ __ ]. you know but also I wouldn't you know by. the way wouldn't recommend a long. tripping one uh do do you know that the. upper uppers usually and you've met many.

of them uh don't drive super. ostentatious cars they downplay it they. get like a regular Porsche 911 not even. the turbo not even that maybe but do you. know you know why do you know do you. know why from an evolutionary because. they have to hide they're hiding a. little bit they're Cameo they're like. the frog that pretends to look like the. leaf perhaps but it's because when I'm n. I just entered that thing I want to. demonstrate to everybody that I'm the.

real deal right and for many other. people who are in my circle they may not. be able to afford the ostentatious. $350,000 Ferrari but when I am an upper. upper in the billionaire class then me. driving a $350,000 car is not a costly. signal in a biological sense of my worth. because every single member of my. billionaire friend group could match. that signal therefore the way I can then.

compete with my billionaire friends is. if I can spend my money in a. lavish uh wasteful way such that I buy. an art piece that a monkey could have. come up with and I pay $180 million of. it right right that makes me big dog. because you don't have enough money Joel. to be able to buy what a monkey and I. paid 180 million. both of us can buy the Maserati and so. that's where I use the principle of.

costly signaling from biology to explain. ostentatious behaviors in consumer. Behavior God that's the dumbest Flex. isn't it especially the modern art Flex. I can't stand that [ __ ] I used to go to. LACMA the LA Modern Art Museum and I. would get angry like Angry like I just. I've done the same thing just like like. just furious because you're you're. feeling that they're cheating you from. the experience of seeing real art this. is not art there's one of them is.

literally a plexiglass box that's. sitting on the ground I'm like you dumb. [ __ ] you dumb [ __ ]. meanwhile if you go on Instagram you. find amazing art there's so many artists. out there like legitimate incredible. artists like what you're doing is. [ __ ] like one of them was a video of. people playing catch that was their art. like [ __ ] you that's postmodernism by. the way right there are no objective. aesthetic standards yeah so anything. goes so in the parasitic mind I have a. section where I talk about so like you.

it so you mention where was it it was an. an LA Museum okay so I had gone to visit. I think it was in 1996 couple years. after my PhD one of my fellow phds from. my school had gotten a job as a. professor in Carnegie melon in. Pittsburgh so I went to visit him and so. he was busy teaching or something so I. said oh you know I'll go to the Carnegie. Museum and hang out and see stuff so. exactly like like the experience you had. there was an empty canvas so I went.

looked for someone who was working there. I said can I see the curator please well. how can we help you sir I said well I'd. like to discuss the this this art piece. so then this other woman comes to me. says how can I help you sir super you. know I said you know what is this. [ __ ] so she goes did you say. [ __ ] well maybe not [ __ ] but. like what what is this can you explain. this to me I I paid an entrance fee to. see this right and what do you think she. said I don't know well is look it it. triggered a a reaction in you isn't that.

what art art is all about I'm like okay. I went to see Yoko Ono's uh exhibit once. of course she did she had an exhibit at. uh in Boston when I was living in Boston. and one of the pieces was a block of. wood with a box of nails and a hammer. and she encouraged people to take a nail. and knock it into the piece of wood she. encouraged people to participate that's. right they're cre the art with her it's. collaborative process this was the art. was Nails on a piece of wood do you.

think that when she does that she. believes it or she knows in the Deep. recesses of her mind that she's a. charlatan I would have to talk to her I. don't know so forget about her just in. general when the way she separated John. Lennon from the Beatles the way you know. like everybody like if if you're in a. band and one of the band members has a. girlfriend the girlfriend now gets get. involved in the band and starts talking. about like you know you need to Tre. treat him better that's Yoko Ono.

everybody calls her Yoko Ono like that's. like a standard thing that people do. because they think that Yoko Ono was a. wedge that dri drove so a person who can. do that with an intelligent guy like. John Lennon like John Lennon was very. smart right very smart guy so a person. who could like serve as and he wanted to. spend all of his time with her that's. probably a master Persuader that's. probably someone who's like really good. at playing you really good at pulling. your strings how about playing herself.

because remember the best way to tell a. li is to First believe it yourself did. you ever see when um she appeared with. John Lennon and they played on. television with Chuck Barry no and she. starts singing into the microphone and. Chuck Barry freaks out because she sucks. she's screaming she just starts. screaming into the microphone while. they're playing so this they're playing. Johnny Be Good oh my God you never saw. it no the best version of it is Bill. Burr cuz Bill Burr talks over it he like. explains what's happening you know in.

his uh inimitable billur way he's just. getting angry watching Yoko Ono just. scream like a banshee and you see the. look on on on uh their faces when. they're looking you know it's just it's. one of those things where if you see you. can't believe it's real you know that my. a friend of mine recently told me he was. actually a former student of mine who's. a good friend now he told me that that. that famous San that they had happened. in Montreal did you know that I did not. know yeah I did not know that it was.

like 1969 at the I think Queen Elizabeth. maybe Jamie will pull it off a lot of. crazy things happened in Montreal. sugaray Leonard versus Roberto Durant. that is true that's right how well I. guess I would expect you to know that. yeah yeah that was like 81 ' 80s. somewhere in the 80s right cuz he won a. gold medal in the 76 Olympics and by. then he was a world champion yeah some. in the ' 80s so yeah yeah yeah so do. have you you've met all these guys I. I've never really met Sugar Ray I saw.

him in a UFC I did meet Roberto Duran. though it was amazing what did you think. I mean that's what I love about our. conversation just goes anywhere uh what. did you think about the Mike Tyson thing. that just uh with the Jack Paul and so. on uh Jake Paul I'm happy they made. money I'll leave it at that that's what. I think yeah okay okay I think it looked. like sparring to me yeah looked like. sparring it didn't look like anybody was. trying to hurt anybody really okay yeah. which is good and you know.

whatever draw your own conclusions I. have no facts you've met you've met. Tyson I paid for it yes I love Tyson. I've met Jake Paul too he's a cool guy. I'm happy they made money I've I paid. for it I don't care right yeah I was. hoping it was going to be a real fight. but I was like okay I see what's going. on right like if you and I sparred we. could put on the gloves and we could go. back into the gym and we could spar and. it would look almost like we're really. fighting no because you'd punch me once. and i' be dead I wouldn't I would do it.

like at your speed oh I would do it at. your speed I just bring myself to your. speed and just move around with you. that's that's kind of what can I tell. you something I would actually be. interested in doing that okay we could. do it it's fine but I'm G to suck so. badly no I won't suck the thing about. doing that with someone who's going to. be nice to you is that you can actually. learn how to do it because you don't. worry about getting hit so like the the. best sparring that I ever got ever was. uh when I learned to spar with people. who had the same intentions as me just.

getting better and not we're not trying. to kill each other right so my early. days of sparring when I was a young man. um I I trained at a very hard gym and we. in kickboxing we try to kill each other. and so there was wars in the gym. essentially every day you were fighting. whenever you sparred you were. essentially fighting you weren't pulling. punches you were hitting each other as. hard as you could it's a really dumb way. to do it but that's how you make a tough. guy right like that's the idea back then. um now I think people are much more. concerned with uh CTE brain damage the.

longevity of a Fighter's career that. they would have people fight smart and. so the thing is like training Partners. especially in Jiu-Jitsu you learn to. really value your training partners. because your training Partners help you. get better and you have to trust them. like if somebody gets me any heel hook I. have to trust them that they're not just. going to rip my knee apart and they're. going to let me tap they got me give me. a second let me tap when I know I can't. get out let me tap don't rip it apart. and then let go as soon as the person. Taps this is like a if you don't do that. in Jiu-Jitsu you won't have people to.

train with you and you get kicked out of. schools and people have been kicked out. of schools because they don't let go of. TAPS they don't they don't let go go of. submissions so like you develop this. understanding that you both could get. hurt really easily I trust you I know. you're going to go hard and I'm going to. go hard but I know that we we're going. to be safe with each other we're not. going to do anything to each other that. we know it's going to hurt each other. right so this is what you do in. kickboxing too but you have to trust. that the person is going to do this. they're not going to hit you hard like. A's going to hit me in the body he's. going to hit me in the body like this. where we're both okay we know he could.

have really hurt me but he just touched. me so he so he's getting his timing he's. getting his movement and we're both. moving fast but we're both really good. so we have the ability to control so. instead of blasting through someone and. punching him you punch him like that you. literally punch him like that where you. just touching yeah 100% you you're not. even going 50% right you're just. touching you you you know you're going. fast you and occasionally unfortunately. sometimes you hit someone harder than. you mean to because they move into. something or you both hit each other at.

the same time it's occasionally but you. mitigate a whole lot of impact and and. then you also develop your timing better. because you're not worried about getting. hit so the best way to learn boxing is. first of all before you do any kind of. sparring is learn technique technique is. everything it's everything mechanics are. everything learning getting it. ingrained in your your your body's. system where you know that if you're. going to throw a punch you're going to. lean your body into it you're going to.

keep your hand up when you throw a right. hand you're going to do this when you. throw the left hook you're going to. cover up with your right hand you're you. you learn these things so they're. ingrained in your movement patterns and. then you do them on pads and the the pad. Holder will like throw things at you so. that you cover up and you learn distance. and you learn how to pull away and. counter and you learn all these things. and then slowly you start incorporating. moving targets you start incorporating a. person and the best way to do that is. not get two people try to kill each.

other CU that's what we used to do you. don't learn anything the best way to do. it is have someone gently move around. with you and they're like hands up hands. up and you move around and like you go. through a whole round where you're not. even allowed to punch just do defense. and iect I just want you I just want you. covering I just want you moving good I. want head movement I want you to be an. elusive Target and when punches come at. you I want you to be able to move away. cuz I I was going to say that when when. I was a soccer player the the type of. trainings we do because you have to do a. lot of Sprints is very different than. the type of Fitness that I do now which.

is usually I just get on the treadmill. and I do a bit of interval training but. I just kind of either run or fast walk. uphill without these kinds of anerobic. right and so I'm kind of looking at. although I just turned 60 by the way uh. in October congratulations thank you so. I'm looking to do something that raises. my heart level in a way that is akin to. what I suppose would happen if you got. into a ring how your heart rate would. kind of go up in ways that I'm probably. not testing my heart currently because I.

just get on the tread mill and I just. jog yeah I mean there's a whole bunch of. workouts you could just do online you. could find online on YouTube there's. hundreds of different people that put. out free workouts and you know you could. do them with two 10B dumbbells that's. true and you know they'll take you. through all this different stuff like. pistol squats do this do that you know. overhead press do this do that and then. they'll work you through the Reps you. all you have to do is follow along have. you ever seen the training Regiment of. Alvin CRA no who's that Alvin CRA is uh.

I mean recently he's kind of had a. couple of off years but he he's sort of. the feature back running back of the uh. New Orleans Saints uh he's an allpurpose. bag meaning that he both runs but he. also catches the ball a lot right so. he's really he does he's a generalist. he's a polymath and I've always loved. the way he moves he moves very very. elegantly like almost like a so he's. both power but also if you remember how. Barry Sanders was in the late 90s do you.

remember who that was he was a Detroit. Lions running back and so I thought this. guy runs unique in a unique way that's. different from all the other players and. I I oh I know who I was thinking I had. Dean Kane on my show do you know who. Dean Kane is sure Superman Superman and. who used to be a football player right. and so we were discussing our favorite. football players and I was telling him. oh this was about three four years ago I. said oh my favorite player is Alvin. kamarra so then he tells me go on. YouTube and watch the types of trainings.

he does to uh develop those movements. and as a big Fitness guy just go watch. it is a lot of Plyometrics a lot of. Plyometrics a lot of stuff where you. know they they throw a ball and he and. he he's standing on a bounce on a u. balancing ball what is that called the. platform and he's trying to catch balls. that he that they're throwing I mean I. would have a hard time just staying on. that damn thing there you go oh. yeah that's.

crazy it what that's exactly his trainer. you have to see what this guy makes him. do it's unbelievable he's like a. ballerina well that makes sense that. that he would be so agile and mobile. because he's doing all these you can't. just like do squats you know if you want. to be an amazing athlete you have to do. a bunch of different things oh this is. cool oh a lot of explosions left and. right oh he un look at this wow. that's crazy hopping back and forth on. ball to ball with balance on one leg. isn't that unbelievable yeah it is oh.

I'm so glad you brought thank you Jamie. it does make sense though that you you. know you need to develop all this stuff. if you want to look at that he's got. that's look at his Stu look at his stuff. crazy he's got to stick with the right. ball standing on one foot I bet he has. insane balance look look at those legs. that balance is insane that thing is so. hard to stand on anyway yeah especially. with one leg I'm so I'm it's exciting. that I shared something thing with you. who's like this huge Fitness expert that. you didn't know cool yeah I've seen. people do similar types of workouts but.

that's very impressive yeah that that. kind of I mean it just makes sense that. if you want to separate yourself from. everybody else like what do you need to. do to separate yourself like Elite. balance Elite there's this guy Arman. sarian who was supposed to be fighting. um Islam makev for the world lightweight. UFC title but he HT his back literally. like the day before the the. weigh-ins it's probably because of the. weight cut they cut he cuts a lot of. weight he's very muscular but one of the. things that this guy does that's really. extraordinary they put out his workout.

he does these incredible Mobility. exercises like he's insanely flexible. he's like jacked like super muscular but. like ridiculously mobile and pliable wow. and he's doing see if you can find his. uh workout routine he does all these uh. crazy exercises where they're like. twisting them in weird positions and. it's very unusual for a guy that's that. strong to to be that agile and mobile. are are you do you have a lot of.

flexibility yeah but that's just because. I started when I was a really young kid. I started in martial arts and I was. stretching from the time I was. developing I genuinely believe that my. muscles are made of glass no that's all. horseshit see if you can find this is. yeah this he does a lot of this stuff. like look at these twisting motions he. does a lot of like weird Mobility stuff. like hip mobility like look at all this. wow it's all very so he's pulling on a. cable machine and like look how flexible.

he is wow it's. nuts and this is like a core part of his. training that is very different than a. lot of other people's training like look. oh my goodness his ability to stand on. his head like that and move his whole. body around in a circle what the hell. incredibly agile so this is not. something that every person no that's. this is super unusual I mean there's. some wrestlers that do this kind of. stuff is pretty common I do these but. he's like got a it's a core part of his. training is his physicality his.

physicality is very this is him with. Hamza chamv who's one of the top. middleweight contenders one of the. absolute best fighters in the world and. you know he's giving him a run for it. wow they're really good I mean watching. him roll like hzza rolls through. everybody and he's having a hard time. controlling this guy and this guy fights. two weight classes below him that's how. good he is the blue guy is the smaller. guy the blue guy is much smaller so. humza is uh he's 185lb guy and at one. point he fought at 170 but he was.

cutting a shitload of weight but even at. 185 he's next in line for the title and. this kid kiss kid's fighting at 155. right so he's quite a bit smaller and. still giving them you know it's he's not. allowing Hamot to run him over which is. very impressive wow so what what's the. trajectory of MMA next is it all turn it. into an Olympic sport what what are I. hope so I hope MMA becomes an Olympic. sport it should is that on the on the. agenda I don't I mean I know they've. pushed for it okay it should be you know. I know there's Combat Sports obviously.

in the Olympics boxing in Judo. particular in Taekwondo now as well and. you've got the Australian breakdown here. too that one was amazing do you think. that was a troller was real I think that. was Hubris I think that was a person who. didn't think they were going to get. scrutinized yeah who uh use their. position of influence to acquire a PhD. in this stuff she has yeah but also. there's like legit break dancers in. Australia if you well Google Australian. break dancers there's people that are.

legit I love break dancing I love. watching it it's so impressive like the. Locking and all that stuff no the. physical moves all the the when they do. a flip and land on one leg and then flip. back the other way there's a couple guys. uh Richie and Gio um Martinez that are. black belts under 10th plan at Jiu-Jitsu. and they started out their career as. break dancing and they were so hard to. hold on to and they were so m Mile and. so agile that Eddie started. incorporating like break dancing into. his training like learning break dance.

techniques because it's just basically. kind of gymnastics right you know and a. lot of these guys they can stand on one. arm and spin around in a circle with. their feet in like a Lotus position like. it's bananas Brazilian self-defense or. an Israeli self yeah cap yeah capera but. capera was like a dance that the slaves. had created that they were disguising a. martial art and a. dance allegedly I'm not not an expert in. capera but a lot of the capera moves. they they dance but they're dancing into.

wheel kicks they're dancing into like. tornado kicks like it's these are. weapons right like they're techniques. but you could pretend that it's just a. dance right but it's kind of oh that's. so the origin is a slavery thing okay I. might be wrong about that I don't think. I am I think that's one of the things. that they did was they hid it they hid. their martial art in dance one of these. left W left turns we take through our. connections of conversation I recently. had a guest on my show uh who's an. expert on Frederick Douglas do you know.

who that is sure uh regrettably not. enough Americans not enough of anybody. knows who he is and of course he was in. the era of you know when slavery was. being abolished and have you ever seen. his face yes doesn't he look as though. he's like a Nubian King the way how. Regal he looks let's see a photo of. Frederick douas and I told to the. scholar and he goes you're exactly right. look at that look at. that imagine that guy teaching your. classes oh my.

God I'm getting warm and I'm a. heterosexual. male and also Imagine to be intellectual. and a black man in that day and age and. he didn't know how to read and learned. it later and if you read his stuff it's. unbelievable like the the eloquence that. he had it's not as though he learned how. to read the way a typical child learns. at 3 4 5 that that happened later in his.

life and then you see the production of. quality he prod it's unbelievable so I. really recommend everybody certainly. Americans as part of your history read. about fedck Douglas he's unbelievable. how old was he when he learned how to. read so I don't want to misspeak I'm not. sure but let's go probably Jamie can. pull it off but probably 12. 133 connection between literacy and. freedom not allowed to attend school he. taught him to read and write the streets. of Baltimore at 12 he bought a b there. you go that's exactly what I said so 123.

um do you know who Rick Ross is no not. the rapper but Freeway Ricky Ross no I. don't think Rick Ross was a cocaine. dealer in the 1980s that didn't know at. the time but he was a part of the whole. Oliver North thing where they were. selling cocaine in the LA streets and. they were using the money to. uhuh okay that you know the that the. United States so this is like pretty.

established they sold cocaine in the LA. ghettos to fund the contous versus the. Sistas in Nicaragua right and this guy. was the guy who is funneling all the. cocaine through he was making millions. of dollars couldn't read Goes to Jail. goes to jail for selling cocaine for the. government for the government in jail. learns how to read and then becomes a. lawyer and then re tries his own case. and gets out because they they tried him. on the three strikes rule This Is How. They convicted him on three strikes but.

it was three strikes from one incident. it's supposed to be three strikes. separate things exactly and so he got. out so he's out now wow yeah so he's. been on my podcast a few times he oh so. I'll check it out so brilliant guy he so. he learned how to read jail in jail yeah. amazing could not read amazing yeah so. one of the biggest stressors I face when. I travel speaking about reading is I've. got a very very big personal library of. books many of which I've yet to read and.

I wake up every day worried that am I am. I going to run out of time in life and. not read these books so whenever I. travel and I'm going to bring a book to. read on that trip I sit there the guy. who studies psychology of decision-. making I have complete decision. paralysis because I would usually my. wife will tell me you're leaving in 24. hours why don't you now go and anguish. get in anguish for the next six hours as. you know my hair is pick a book yeah so. I'm like oh this one no this one and I'm. literally sitting there interesting yeah. interesting you you I think you listen.

to books you don't read them right I do. read occasionally but like 90% of them I. listen to yeah I I I need that tactile. thing I can't do the the tactile thing. is great but for me it's a time thing I. can get listening in when I'm in my car. and when I'm in the sauna so those are. so and you feel you you pretty much. retain as much or or not as as it's hard. to say because it's kind of the only way. I'm accessing information these days but. I retain a lot of it okay it depends on. what it always depends on whether or not.

I'm excited about the information always. if I'm very excited about it I retain. most of it if I'm just like forcing. myself to pay attention and then my mind. drifts off into something else then. comes back and like that's a little bit. of a problem like if things become rep. like I've lately I have been uh. listening to a lot of UFO stuff okay a. lot of UFO abductions stories a lot of. UFO I'm go going through jacqu vet's. stuff because he's coming on the podcast.

again and so I've been going through all. of his books he's got several books and. he's got a very nuanced perspective on. this whole UFO thing that is uh I didn't. know and I wish I knew the first time I. had him on because the first time I had. him on I knew that he was the guy who. was uh in he inspired the French. scientist in the Steven Spielberg movie. Clos Encounters of the Third Kind okay. did you see that movie I did see it. this is 1977 right yes so there's a. French scientist in that film that is uh.

coordinating all these uh people that. are trying to contact this UFO and. they're they're working this out like. how to do it it's based on jacqu F and. jacqu valet has been involved in the. research of these experiences that. people had had or allegedly had with. being abducted with sightings with crash. sites and all these different things. he's been involved with it for a long. time where are you on the Zero I. absolutely don't believe any of this 100.

I fully believe in this what's your. score I the more time goes on the more I. think it's way weirder than we think I I. don't dismiss the idea that something. from another planet can come here and. visit us I have a feeling it's weirder I. have a feeling there may be that and. then also other things I have a feeling. it's way more complicated I have a. feeling it's like life like if you told.

me that if you go to Earth you can find. life okay well what kind of Life are you. talking about you talking about like. fish are you talking about Raptors are. you talking about dogs like what kind of. life there's so much life there's so. much different life I have a feeling. that alien contact intelligent beings. from somewhere other than here is like. that I think it's probably more complex. than we can imagine and probably there's. an interdimensional aspect to it there's. probably a non-physical aspect to it.

that seems physical too there's probably. an area of this phenomenon that plays on. human consciousness and dreams and our. interactions with the unknown because I. think there's more to life than we can. perceive I think there's more to the. existence this this this conscious. existence in this moment in the universe. there's more to it than we're picking up. on I think we have limited senses and I. think that this is what things like the. telepathy tapes and all these different.

people that are studying paranormal. phenomenon I think that's what this. stuff is all about I think it's part of. an emerging aspect of human. consciousness that we're developing. stronger and stronger senses in regards. to things that aren't they're not. something that you can just put on a. scale they're not something that you. could take a rule or two they's not. something that you can quantify but they. probably exist and if you I don't know. if you've listened to the telepathy. tapes I haven't but I just started. watching I think three days ago a.

Netflix series so you'll know this. better because I don't remember what. it's called it's supposedly a New York. case in the late 1980s that's the most. famous UFO Abduction case is this. ringing the bell I don't know about the. 1980 the most famous Cas is like Betty. and Barney Hill and they were in the. 1950s that's and then the other one is. Travis Walton he's this guy right here. oh they made a movie out of it called. Fire in the Sky but maybe I don't know. if Jamie can pull out it's it's a. Netflix series that just it's a.

documentry series that just start that I. think came out this year or this past. year there is kind of a guy I don't. think he's a professor or something but. he's a guy who's like the investigator. who who. Cates what's it called the man Al. abduction that's the one thank you thank. you Jamie this is is that oh you don't. know this one no I'm not all they sold. it as the most famous most you know. documented case of UFO abductions it.

might be okay I mean I don't know what. to think of those things I've read John. Mack's book John Mack was a uh uh. psychiatrist at Harvard and he or a. psychologist I forget which one um he uh. wrote a book called abduction that was. all about hypnotic regression therapy. that he did with all these different. people that had these abduction. experiences and they were all really. similar like eerily similar and there's. no way that they could have no they they. weren't communicating with each other. they didn't know about it they were they. were ashamed of these stories they. didn't want to tell other people they.

were telling them to their shrink but. they weren't telling them to other. people it's a it's a weird thing man I. and but here's the thing they all come. back like no one gets abducted and gets. kidnapped like what's going on are you. really leaving or is this in your mind. in your mind did you leave like what. happened to your body were you if I had. a camera in your room were you in that. bed the whole time is this experience. all happening inside your mind and is it. still real like just because some things. I think there's Dimensions that we don't. have access to that exist around us and.

these guys that pretend to understand. quantum theory and all that stuff when. they start talking to you about it. talking about multiple Dimensions it. leaves room for the possibility of these. things I actually had so I've had a lot. of amazing guests on my show you know. top professors of all kinds arguably the. best conversation I've had which is. saying a lot with a guest on my show is. one of the pioneers of Quantum Computing. and and not to serve as his publicist. but I think you know he'd be a great guy.

for you to have I'd love to talk to him. what's his name his name is David Deutch. he's a physicist by uh training he wrote. two uh best-selling books I think one of. them is called the edge of infinity and. we tried to discuss you know what is. what is quantum physics what is how do. you apply that principle to Quantum. Computing and uh remember I said that. there are too many professors who are. not intellectuals yes well he's exactly. an intellectual because we could sit.

down and have a conversation where at. the end of it you were so. hedonistically you know tickled in your. brain that it's as if you just had sex. but with you get excited you get excited. and so we had two conversations I'd urge. you to listen to our conversations it. was not too long ago maybe three four. months ago amazing guy okay very I'll. try to have him on yeah that'd be great. I'm fascinated by Quantum Computing Mark. andreon was explaining the the. experiments that they've done where they.

did a calculation that if you turn the. entire universe into a computer every. molecule every atom of the universe was. a computer it would take so much time to. solve this equation that the Universe. would die of heat death first but you do. it in Quantum Computing it does it four. seconds yeah quickly is that amazing. couple minutes is that amazing yeah it's. bananas like what is happening and he. said it's proof of the multi diverse. because somehow or another this computer. is contacting other quantum computers in.

an infinite number of universes and. using all the computing power and. solving it instantaneously forgive me. for being eager to jump uh on what. you're saying I think if I'm not. mistaken David Deutch is one of the. pioneers of the Multiverse Theory well. it it kind of is the only Theory at. least it's as it's been explained to me. that could work with quantum computer. exactly they I was like but they don't. know what's happening yeah it's like. these guys are making magic do did you. do you remember the famous quote do you. know who Richard fan is yes yeah so. there's a quote I might get it off the.

quantum Compu yeah yeah where he says if. you think you understand quantum physics. you don't understand quantum physics and. that's pretty much how I feel when I try. to understand I'm like what is this [ __ ]. I don't understand any of it's so. bizarre just what's measurable about it. is so bizarre like articles in super. position so they're they're moving and. they're still at the same time what. they're quantumly entangled photons what. are you talking what yeah what does this. even mean like where is this stuff like. what is this I I first was exposed to. because you were just saying about the.

computational power that would would be. required that you could reduce with cont. Computing when I was first exposed to AI. so I you know my my undergrad was in. mathematics computer science and so I. had taken an AI course before AI was the. the [ __ ] right this was 1985 and the. professor who taught me was his name is. I can't believe I remember his name mon. newborn he was part of the deep blue. team that was de developed do you. remember that stuff sure that's the.

computer that beat Gary Caspar at chess. exactly exactly and so actually for one. of our assignments in that course we had. to develop in a on a game it do have to. be chess but it could be some other game. what what's called Alpha Beta pruning. which is if you blow out the decision. tree of a typical game let's say like. chest you would need 10 to the 100 nodes. if I'm not mistaken which is more nodes.

than there are particles in the universe. I think in the universe there's 10 to. the 80 so there are more nodes in a. chess game than there are particles or. atoms in the universe so it would take. you infin so what Alpha Beta pruning. does so right you're pruning so what. it's basically doing is it starts. testing going down the tree and if it. seems like no good outcome from here you. you prune that tree so what you're doing. is you're reducing the computational. complexity of the tree so that you can.

arrive to a final solution much quicker. and so that was the. original time that I was exposed to Ai. and and at the time I thought wow AI is. going to take over the world and then AI. went through a winter where it kind of. died out and it's only in the last three. four five years that really has exploded. but I want to tell you a few uh. assignments that I had back then and I. would challenge someone to solve them on. your show and post the answers I still. remember them okay I was an A+ student.

so here's. one uh if you take a string of ones and. zeros right any string so it could be. one one one0 one01 0 or it could be 1. million long it could be okay you and I. will play a game we start I let's say I. start I have to either take out the end. digit from this side or the end digit. from that side then when it's your turn.

you take out the end digit from this. side or that side we keep going until we. get to one digit remaining whomever is. left with that digit if it's a one they. win if it's a zero they lose do do you. follow the game so far yes so what. Professor newborn had asked us to do as. an assignment 1985 40 years ago is. can you tell us this is called a. deterministic game meaning that there is. a way to a prior know who would win the.

game before we even play just by looking. at some characteristic of any string so. you understand what I'm saying yeah yeah. so then my question to your and don't. cheat and go check it on Google or even. I have it on my YouTube channel. somewhere so the the thing is what are. the characteristics of any string that. would allow us to deterministically know.

before we begin playing whether Gad or. Joe will win so that's game one okay and. let's see if anybody's gonna post it on. you I know you don't read the comments. but whatever what would be a. characteristic that you would take into. consideration okay so this is not a. correct one but it's too bad that I'm. saying it because you can go down that. path for 5 hours before you realize it's. not correct so I'm saying giv a lot of. people Alpha Beta uh is it a ratio of. how many ones and zeros that any string.

has so for example is it if it's 2: one. ratio and I start then I will win or is. it you understand got it could so I. could look at a string that's four. million digits long or five digits long. and I will know ahead of time Jesus it's. it's unbelievable so that's I can't even. possibly guess okay. uh and I I could give you the answer or. not no okay don't give it number two let. people simmer in it you know what I. would love I would love for Professor.

newborn if he's still alive to watch. this show and say my God I must have. trained the student well that he can. pull this out of his butt 40 years later. yeah right yeah so anyway so game two or. problem two and imagine now you have to. go off it's due next Tuesday and I'll. try to solve this damn thing that's why. I always tell people just study math and. computer science whatever you end up. becoming it doesn't matter you're never. going to get as good a training as being. a math and computer science undergrad. anyways second game you have 12.

coins this one I I think is a bit easier. you have 12 coins of which one is. counterfeit it's counterfeit in that. it's either heavier or lighter you don't. know okay what is the minimal sequence. of weighing me that if I had a scale. that I can place these on so that I can. unequivocally identify which is the.

faulty the counterfeit coin and whether. it's too heavy or too light is this. based on. odds so because if it's you have 12. coins yeah so I could say 12 because you. might [ __ ] it up until the end right no. but then I asked you for the minimal. number ofs well I could you get lucky on. the first two and the second one could. be heavier and then you do the third one. the third one's lighter and you go okay. so it's the heavier one okay but then.

that depends on what the outcome of the. weighing was right is there what is the. minimal number of sequence of weighings. that will invariably converge to the. right counterfeit coin irrespective of. what happens in the weighing okay and. tells me whether it's too heavy or too. light it's mind-blowing [ __ ] tell me. what it is I. so I I okay so I I don't remember the. sequence right but I if I'm not mistaken. I hope I'm not wrong I'm sure Jimmy.

could pull it off I believe that there. is a sequence of three steps that could. invariably identify which coin is. counterfeit and if it's too light or too. heavy so it's not as simple as just. weighing them there's it is as simple as. weighing but which ones is it you weigh. is it you you take any two and you so. let's say I take four right and I put. two and two and the balance weighs then. I know that those four could not have. been the counterfeit because it didn't.

tip one way or the other because they're. the same weight so in that case by. taking any random four putting them on. I've only eliminated those four right. but you can do that three times you have. 12 just try it yeah but if you do that. three times you'll be able to figure it. out really quickly if so if now you got. rid of those four right so I don't. remember what sequences so we could try. to work it out now but I don't think. it's as simple as just us doing it if I. take another four mhm and I put them out.

and that comes out as even I get rid of. those four I've now done two weighings. now I still have four right if I take. two and. two now if it does do one or the. other I'll I won't know which one it is. yet and I won't know if it's it's too. light or too heavy correct right so that. means your strategy of I just take four. three times will not converge me to the.

optimal solution of three well so you. have to do it in three steps you have to. do it in three steps but by the way he. doesn't tell you and at the assignment. what is the number of Step wouldn't you. just do six and six then if you no. because then you wouldn't have any to. base it on no if you get six and six you. you you're sure you're going to get this. unbalanced and you don't know anything. gave you it just confirmed that there's. a counterfactual I mean a counterfeit. one so you do four and four if you got.

lucky you could catch it on the second. one but you wouldn't know then because. you wouldn't know it was it was if you. did what you just said that means it's. dependent on the outcome of that. singular time that you did it what I'm. saying is irrespective of what you do. here is the strategy that will always. get you what you so I don't remember. what the thing God damn it you leave me. suspense no but I didn't tell you the. other one I didn't tell you the the. digit one right well the digit one I. don't want you to tell people it will. blow your I could give a singular hint.

okay that would almost make everybody. get it but I don't want to give it. because no I'll tell you why because it. is almost a mystical process I mean. we're sitting there we're all you know. just give just tell us what it is you. want me to yeah yeah yeah okay so before. I do so let me give you the hint to see. if you'll get it and you don't think I'm. putting on the spot. okay what. does this is so cool what does any.

string whether it's a million strings or. 20 strings always have architecturally. speaking do you understand what I'm. asking yes a number a finite number. no it always has a. it starts with. m. Jamie what are you saying it has a.

middle a middle okay if you have a do. you see where I'm going with this okay. so meaning if both you and I know the. deterministic rule right it doesn't. matter how big the string is right if I. look at the middle of the string I mean. I'm getting Goosebump saying it okay if. if you look at the middle of this like. look if this if the middle is 111 just. bear with me okay if the middle is 111.

this the string is an odd. number okay because whether it's odd. number or even right it doesn't matter. got it if it's an odd. number and I. start and the middle is one one1 I know. that I'm going to win why theid has to. be a one because one or zero yeah well. no because if if the middle is 111 right. so when we're left with 111 I take a one.

from this side mhm you take any other. one and I'll be left with one and I win. therefore if we both know the. deterministic rule of the game I will. always make sure so when you take out. from this side I will counterbalance by. taking out from this side and then you. take out from this side I'll. counterbalance with this side to make. sure that we converge to the middle 111. which I know because it's an odd string. and I started the game I'm always going.

to get to it got it do you get it yeah. and so the entire algorithm is based on. is the string odd or. even that will determine if it's the. middle three or middle four and do I. start or do you start knowing that. information the string could be 73. billion digits long. or it could be six digits long it's a. deterministic game I know who will win. as long as we both know that rule if we.

both don't if I know it and you don't. then there's asymmetry then I can always. make sure to win by but if we both know. it we don't have to play the game I just. look at the middle and I go you're. starting or you win we don't need to. play Isn't that cool it is cool but I. wish we hadn't done it because I would. have loved to see people's attempts. because you learn from how people are. thinking how do you understand this. Quantum. Computing this Multiverse explanation.

all I mean not I don't want to say. nothing but certainly not enough to. offer any insights in this conversation. it seems so strange and there's no real. applications for it yet which is even. stranger is that they have this. computing power but they're not using it. to do things well but here's where it. does so I guess maybe I was being too. humble and when I said I don't I don't. know anything about it. when so here's a mind-blowing thing MH. so you know what prime numbers are yes. okay it's an incredibly easy property to.

Define we know how the number line. operates yet you know that one of the. open problems in pure mathematics pure. mathematics is basically number Theory. it's the purest most theoretical form of. math which is saying a lot pure. mathematicians don't don't have a. formula that allows them to generate. what is the next prime right so usually.

right now what you do is you have these. incredible supercomputers and through. Brute Force someone comes out with we. now found the largest prime number ever. but it was done through algorithmic. brutish Force so I can see how a Quantum. Computing approach will allow us to. through Brute Force calculate much. further prime numbers that today we. don't have the computational power to do.

so I don't know what the application. would be but that would be an example of. using the the raw computational power of. quantum Computing to solve these. problems what I was getting at was we. don't have an application for it where. it's being used and it's eventually. going to be what I was getting at is. that we're looking at this astounding. computation ability that's baffling and. what happens when that gets applied to. something this is what my point was like. my my point is always what happens when.

that gets applied to sentient AI when it. gets applied to some large language. model that's. untethered that's that's where it's. really crazy because the the computing. power look the one of the big problems. with artificial intelligence is the. incredible need for power right this is. why these like Google's doing this AI. thing where they want to develop three. nuclear power plants to power their AI. yeah amazing like this is nuts so like. what what happens when this insane thing.

that we have developed called artificial. intelligence meets this other insane. thing that we have developed called. Quantum. Computing so I I don't know about that. but what what I can say is that any type. of problem that requires massive. computational power because of the. burdensome. search you can use that for right right. so imagine although I don't think you. need Quantum Computing for this but say.

in medical Diagnostics where you use an. AI system why isn't it that we don't why. do we even go to a physician and provide. him or her with our symptoms when it. should be so trivially easy to put that. into an AI Medical Diagnostic system and. it can look up rare case in 1827 in. Zambia that exactly map on to exactly. the symptoms the unique symptoms that. I'm facing because I went on a safari in.

Zambia no physician even if he's. training infectious diseases has. probably seen that case from 1827 Zambia. so I would expect that in problems that. require huge computational power to. search through huge engines is where. Quantum but I don't know anything else. yeah well it's it's going to have. applications is the point and it's. it's right now it's this insane. technology that is so above and beyond. anything that's even imaginable if you. just said that to someone 20 years ago.

you're going to have a computer that if. you took the whole universe and turned. it into a computer it would die of heat. death before this thing could figure it. out and this thing could do in a couple. of minutes unbel you would go that's. what what are you even saying yeah you. go what does the world look like when. this thing becomes real the world looks. like we're in some sort of Terminator. movie we're we're in some sort of space. movie Star Trek type deal like it's it's. not going to be like a normal world but. it is a normal world and this technology. exists my wife just before I came on the. show she called me up and she goes oh. did you did you see this deep AI stuff.

with the Chinese I said sweetie I'm. about to head off to speak to Joe why. are you having a deep conversation with. me now she goes oh because maybe Joe's. gonna bring up something about Ai and. you might want to know about de so. anyway so let me give her do you know. anything about this I do I do there. there's a lot going on um and what's. what's bizarre is that China is dumping. insane amounts of money I think I think. the the estimation in the American.

dollar is a quarter of a trillion. dollars uh into their AI program their. their AI program is uh also allegedly. involves a little bit of Espionage so it. involves a little bit of uh stealing. some of the data from open Ai and some. of these other places and um one of the. things that does happen happen of course. with these sort of enormous technology. breakthroughs is that you're going to. have uh certain foreign governments that.

are trying to infiltrate these research. centers yeah they're trying to get. access to this information and the. speculation is that they have done that. and that they are more advanced because. of it than we are even aware of and that. they're dumping untold amounts of. resources sort of unchecked the response. to this is probably what uh the. government just recently announced what. the Trump Administration the 500 billion. thing right this is probably in response. to that okay that there there's an AI.

arms race that's going on right now and. whoever gets to the front of the line. first is going to be an insane position. of power and in a sense it's similar to. the Space Race but this one is probably. more consequential probably more. consequential because essentially when. you're dealing with Quantum Computing. and Ai and you put the two of those. together which they haven't done yet but. once they do what are what is that that. sounds like a god yeah it does it sounds. like something that can do things that. doesn't even make sense it's going to. have the kind of understanding of the. universe that we would only dream of.

right now right and it's probably a week. away or a month away or a year away or. whatever it is so and it's going to. happen quick in a in a much less sort of. grand context yesterday I had this. morning I was telling you I was having. uh breakfast with a colleague from UT. Austin I actually also met him yesterday. he came over over to the hotel and we. went out he has a Tesla and he said that. over the past month or so I don't. remember the exact time the AI abilities.

of the self-driving part of his Tesla. he's noticed a huge Improvement like a. really discreet jump and so we were. driving we were going to a coffee shop. uh and he wasn't he wasn't looking at. the road and he wasn't using his hands. and the car car was driving oh yeah I. have one but okay so for you it doesn't. seem perceptually and I was looking it's. no it's bananas when you use it's. bananas the auto driving feature is nuts.

it stops at red lights it turns left and. right it changes Lanes the whole thing. and so this was the first time I I was. fully immersed in a self-driving car and. I was telling him hey Richard are are. you are you sure that this is okay and. he's like oh yeah no it's fine I my. children come in and it was like. mind-blowing experience it's. mind-blowing yeah and what is that. compared to what it's going to be yeah. exactly there was uh I bought my first. one I guess uh seven years ago something. like that and uh I made a video of me.

driving on Sunset Boulevard without my. hands I had my hands over the steering. wheel I led Zepp and was playing I was. like this is so crazy it was driving. down the street and have you how much. have you noticed it's much better okay. oh yeah much much much much much 500%. better it's way better yeah it's like. like I said now what specifically it it. makes decisions it's now it changes. Lanes to avoid obstructions it it it. puts its blinker on it makes turns it. stops at red lights and stop signs it.

just does everything it drives like a. person I mean it still feels weird I. don't like to let it drive I like to. drive okay I like driving right I like I. like it's fun it's fun and it's a fun. car to drive because it's so. Preposterous it's like it moves like. like a time machine yeah just it just. goes places it doesn't make any noise. it's real weird so I like driving but. the autod driving feature that exists. now is just the beginning it's going to. it's going to get to the point where. it's going to be stupid to let people. drive you know it's funny because uh.

linking it back to my area research in. Psychology decision-making there was a. psychologist who has now passed away a. very famous psychologist named Paul me. ml who in the. 1950s was already doing studies looking. at what's called Actuarial versus. clinical judgments what does that mean. let's suppose I were to tell you that. when it comes to making decisions for. your admissions to University using an. Actuarial model meaning putting in all.

of your admissions data and allowing a. model to decide yes or no is a much. better uh mechanism than to allow humans. to make that choice because humans can. be hungry at 11:45 and they're pissed. off because their blood sugar is low and. if they're depending on whether the. blood sugar is low or not they may make. a different decision on the exact same. file so that he tried to argue that. Actuarial decisions for certain.

structured decisions will end up having. much better fairer outcomes for. University applicants and people were. still reticent to allow the machine to. make decisions they wanted to be in the. hands of humans and so I think when the. reason I thought of this example is. because when you said I don't like the. ma the machine to be driving I want to. be in control what that to me suggests. is that no matter how much Actuarial.

evidence you might provide to people. telling them on average you're much less. likely to get into an accident if the. self-driving car drives most people are. going to have the bias of saying no I. can't relinquish control do do you agree. with that yeah I think there's that's. definitely a factor um also you wonder. if the car is paying attention to things. that you can see but it can't see right. so what I like to look at when I'm. driving one of the reasons why I like.

driving my truck I have a raptor and. it's it's above the rest of the traffic. so I could see people doing stupid. things way up ahead so I could see. someone slamming on their brakes and I. know all these other people are going to. have to slam on their brakes too cuz. somebody just cut in front of that guy. and stopped dead I can change lanes. right the car is not going to know that. it's not going to see that it's not. going to be paying attention because. it's not high enough right well the it's. not paying attention to anything other. than the car in front of it or the car. to the right and to the left it's not. looking at cars like way down the road. I'm looking at things like hundreds of.

yards ahead of me but couldn't a couple. of code lines fix what you just said it. might not be able to see it okay it does. it's not going to see it like I see it. it would have to have like sensors up. where my eyeballs are okay right and. especially like I'll move to the left. lane a little bit to see what's going on. over there and I'll move back you know. I'll move slightly to the left so that I. could see past this line when you're. taking into account other people's. stupidity the thing is once we get to a. point where automated cars are. ubiquitous then the argument for.

self-driving or driving yourself rather. is going to be kind of shitty because. it's going to be so much better than. driving right like you're it's so much. safer if you're not going to worry about. ever being distracted by your phone. you're not going to ever worry about you. know dropping your drink in your lap and. changing lanes and colliding with. someone you're not going to think about. all those things cuz the car is going to. be doing everything. and as good as it is now it's way better. than it used to be and it's going to be. way better in a few years from now right. it's like I do love driving though I.

love the pleasure of driving a car it's. not that I want to be in control and I'm. we I enjoy it it's like a ride when I. was a little kid I remember thinking boy. one day I'm going to be able to drive a. car that's like going to Disneyland. every day cuz Disneyland you know you're. on a ride like you know there some of. these little race car rides in. Disneyland they're silly you compared to. a car so you're you're on a ride well I. remember uh in. 1983 I had gone to help my brother move. he had he had moved to Toronto for a. year and then he ended up moving to.

Southern California and I was going with. him to help him move and he took a. U-Haul truck and I took his den I think. it was called an RX7 Mazda one of those. do you remember those oh yeah okay and. it had the cruise control on it which. was the earliest manifestation so I did. it a bit on the highway cuz we have to. drive from Montreal to Toronto yeah you. just lay back but I didn't I I wanted to. be in control of I didn't like being. constrained by it's on 110 kilm right I.

want to be able to adjust right and so I. played with it for about 50 kilometers. and then I turned it off and I never. used it again well now they have ones. that judge the speed based on the. distance between the car in front of you. and you can change it so it's like radar. laser I think it uses laser so the laser. determines how far ahead of you the car. is and slows down so that you have an. appropriate amount of stopping distance. right they pretty incredible now do you.

do you do you foresee have you heard of. those U kind of uh flying taxis that. they're thinking is is this kind of uh. Jefferson stuff or is I think once we. get really good at automating cars why. wouldn't you have automated flying. vehicles the real concern with flying. vehicles is people getting in accidents. in the sky falling on people's houses. which would happen I mean think about. how Street takeovers where people drive. like [ __ ] in the street imagine that. happening in the sky you're walking your.

dog and you're dead yeah you're walk in. your dog and boom a car falls on you. that could happen so is that an. intractable problem that ends the. project right there or can you. automation automation changes all that. so with automation you have a 3D. perspective of everything around it. everything around it has a 3D. perspective of everything around it and. they're all moving in sync so they all. share information you're going to know. where one is at every time but you're. not going to be in control you not you. can't just dive bomb onto your. ex-girlfriend's house right you know.

[ __ ] you [ __ ] I'm G to die you can't. you know it's like the worry about. humans is human error or you know doing. it on purpose which which is an error. but you know as someone who used to code. in my computer science days sometimes. you forget the semicolon and the syntax. of the programming language you do but. it's going to be coded by AI it won't be. coded by people that's true there's. already like people that are coding. right now will tell you don't go to. school for coding cuz it's a great thing. to learn learn to code is now obsolete.

yeah isn't that funny like learn to code. what was the learn to code thing would. get you in trouble when PE because. someone had said it in regards to people. losing menial jobs was like I think in. the coal. industry that you're going to have to. learn to code which is such a crazy. thing to say but it became a thing where. it would get you kicked off of Twitter. that's how suppressed people don't. understand how suppressive Twitter was. you get in trouble for writing learn to. code like you couldn't mock people by. saying that ridiculous thing that.

someone had said about coal miners so. can I take credit for having uh. reintroduced the word into the Lexicon. did you I think you are looking at the. one who made the use of the word [ __ ]. cool. again let me listen no no I'm not going. to never let it go I never let it go I. ret tter yeah but everybody did Twitter. retards in in quiet circles has always.

existed it's like a a smoldering Ember. that re because now there's a skit that. I do whenever I see somebody posting. something they are two levels I retweet. it and then I go are you [ __ ] or if. I'm really pissed are you [ __ ]. [ __ ] and so now people are creating. like memes t-shirts with me and are you. [ __ ] some people have said my next. book after my current one suicidal. empathy will be are you are you [ __ ]. so I feel as though give me a bit of. credit I don't give you any credit it's. been it's been going around it's never.

died in comedian circles we've we've. kept it alive forever it's just too good. of a word and also it doesn't have. anything to do with Down Syndrome it has. to do with a specific way of thinking. and just because some people you know oh. you're an ableist that's not what it's. about yeah I would never use that term. if I was talking about someone who had. Down syndrome that's not you use it you. use it when you're talking about someone. who thinks the World is Flat right. comedy special yeah instead of saying. extremity yeah you yeah there's a time.

and a place for certain words that's why. they exist you don't eliminate words. that make the world a better place are. there any words that you've never used. and I've got one go no that you've never. used like I've never I mean obviously. there's a million words in the Lexicon. that I haven't used just because I mean. words that we know that we find too. objectionable to use can you guess what. mine would be what is it it's the. CW I've never used it and I don't like. you hang out in England more I know. that's I was going to say they throw. that around like a beach ball at a con.

you're it's m and yeah Australia he's a. good [ __ ] exactly I don't like it I get. it do you do you feel it do do you see. there's a lot of power in that word but. the the less you use it the more power. it has it's like the old Lenny Bruce bit. yeah yeah um I think that is going to be. a thing of the past too I think. technology is going to bring us to a. point where we're going to be able to. telepathically exchange ideas and it's. going to be thought-based it's not going. to be based on language and the the you.

know the problem with language of course. you have objectable words words that are. used out of context words that you see. in print you're lacking the sarcastic. tone that the person said it in so you. read it you could reinterpret it as. being a serious statement there's a lot. of weird stuff with language because. what we're really trying to do is. communicate yeah it's a crude form of. communication that only exists because. telepathy is not good you feel that. we're going to one day be able to just.

our conversation will just be we're. looking at each other in the eyes yeah. yeah I think so what would be the M. material means by which that gets. instantiated how would we do that well I. think initially it' be technology but. what I think is it's an emerging aspect. of human consciousness anyway right I. think we're getting better at it I think. that ironically the thing that keeps us. from it is technology because what is. the the worst way to communicate with. someone where you're not exactly sure. what they're saying is text right like. people misinterpret things in text.

messages all the time where one person. is joking and the other person takes. them seriously or one person doesn't. understand that this person doesn't know. about something else and they wrote. something so there is and I may have. mentioned this before on the show I. can't remember there is something to. what you're saying not quite. telepathically but so you know brain. Imaging. fmri right so in fmri I I put you. through the the machine and I'm able to. look at which areas of your brain are. getting more activated either through.

blood flow or oxygenation or whatever. right so if I'm studying the psychology. of fear-based appeals or advertising. well I expect your amydala to light up. more because that's an emotional Center. where you expect fear to be processed. right got it so there is some. researchers I think out of UCLA that. took I I can't remember if it's like a. sentence so let's say eight different. sentences I'm getting the methodology. wrong but the the general idea is valid.

and based on the activation pattern that. they see they're able to tell you which. sentence would have been said by looking. at the brain image you understand what. I'm saying yeah because each of those. enunciated sentences or things that I. thought about. will necessitate a. different invoking of a particular. region in my brain right and therefore. so I can't be to the point where I'm.

able to read your mind in the way that. if you and I were having a telepathic. conversation would happen but at least. I'm able to know if you just thought. about something fearful or you thought. about a house or and so now they're. already doing that so I think the. analogy would be like this is the first. grunt that ient man right developed to. recognize particular things and to point. out things before they developed a. written language that was eloquent like.

Thomas Jefferson right yes like as it. advances yeah exactly so I I so I've. written two papers I mean academic. papers on um the brain Imaging Paradigm. and I used a term that I first learned. of from my doctoral Professor I in I did. one of my minors in my PhD was studies. studies of the brain and his name is. Frank Kyle he's now a professor at Yale. University uh he called it the illusion.

of explanatory profundity he was. applying it to something else but I. apply it to brain Imaging let me explain. what I mean by that there are studies. that show that if you take the exact. same paper and in one version you. actually put an image of a brain Imaging. thing and in the other version of the. paper you don't do that and and you ask. people to judge what it's the exact same. paper right but you put the one with the. image people go o this one is more.

scientific right right of course. packaging matters because it just. showing the brain which looks cool in. sciencey with all kinds of activation. pattern is sciencey right this other. paper which is exactly the same paper. doesn't have it it's not as sciencey so. hence illusion of explanatory profundity. you you're thinking that you're. explaining something very profound but. it really is you don't know what the. hell you're talking about so I think. brain Imaging so far has been very. powerful as a diagnostic tool because.

you could see things in Vivo you could. actually see certain things that before. you had to do an invasive surgery to see. but to be able to fully like now there. are neuromarketing firms that tell you. that sell you based on the activation. patterns of your consumers we can help. you design better marketing campaigns. [ __ ] right so they're. overexaggerating the capabilities this. is a this is a problem when Lites sort.

of interpret what science is capable of. and then try it based on that exactly do. you know the story of uh I think it was. in India there was a woman who was. convicted of murder because through fmri. functional magnetic residence imagery. they uh she had a functional me she had. a functional memory of the crime somehow. or another and the problem with I talked. to neuroscientists about that and they. said the problem is like she could have. had that memory based on the evidence.

that was given to her when she was being. tried you would imagine that that would. have a profound effect if someone told. you that you're being tried for murder. and they showed you photos of the crime. scene you might develop a functional. memory of this crime scene we trying to. think like who the [ __ ] did this why am. I being blamed it doesn't and we don't. really have the capability of it another. one is there was these Italian. scientists that were actually tried and. convicted uh because they were liable of. not telling people about an earthquake. that took place because the people that.

were trying them did not understand that. the science involved in predicting. earthquakes is not exact it's not it's. not like I know an earthquake is going. to happen Tuesday at noon or I know an. earthquake is definitely even going to. happen you don't know it's just and. because the fact that these people who. didn't understand the science were. trying them they wanted to pretend that. these people were responsible for not. alerting all these and they they were. try I think they tried them for. manslaughter and they were convicted and.

I think they won on appeal wow yeah see. if you can find that story interesting. it's a crazy story because actual people. who are geologists are like what the. [ __ ] are you doing yeah seven-year legal. Saga ends as Italian official is cleared. of manslaughter and earthquake trial. verdict files conviction of Deputy for. advice given ahead of laquila earthquake. wow yeah crazy crazy CU you have a bunch. of [ __ ] that say you should have. known we're going to take you to court. and like hey you [ __ ] idiot you don't. even know how this technology works and.

they don't have to know well even on a. much more basic level eyewitness. testimony has been shown to be. unbelievably unreliable unbelievably. unreliable the pioneer of that research. I'm I I give so many shout outs to. people who become famous after hearing. about me on the show Elizabeth. lus who's a venerable psychologist at. University of California Irvine where I. was for a few years uh she is the.

Pioneer of having studied the inaccuracy. of eyewitness testimony and once you see. her research you shudder to think how. many people have gone to the gas. chamber uh you know because someone said. of course I I absolutely saw him it was. him oh well yeah I mean I've worked with. Josh Dubin multiple times on the show to. help people get out of jail this is. Innocence Project he was with the. Innocence Project and now he does his. thing with Ike P Pearl mutter and he's.

very involved in helping these people. that have and there's a lot of them that. are in jail either through eyewitness. ter testimony or corrupt prosecutors or. you know evidence was withheld or you. know there's there's a ton of those. cases are you a consumer of all the. crime shows no not not at all no I don't. why cuz it's bad vibes oh okay I don't I. don't need that in my life I'm aware of.

it enough I mean I've paid attention to. enough of them I've read enough books. I've I've read enough books on serial. killers I've I've get I get it you know. what I'm as a psychologist what. interests me is and you see it almost in. every show I I like I don't know if you. know the show it's called interrogation. raw where the the whole our series is. there's a case and now they bring in the. guy and they're actually filming. interrogation that's happening and.

invariably in almost every case that. I've watched it's the same Dynamic the. guy who eventually is convicted always. thinks that he's smarter than these hick. hillbilly cops that don't know anything. and seeing how the cops play them how. they really are amazing psychologists. themselves to know how good cop bad cop. the whole thing and so I love watching. that interaction because the guy comes.

in and does his whole song and dance and. he truly because he's gotten away with. it for much of his life and then you. know I'm just a Shuck's a stupid country. boy who doesn't know what I'm talking. about we talked about this the other day. too that I think there's something going. on as well that people that lie all the. time they don't recognize that people. can tell that they're lying because. they're not good at reading lying they. lie all the time so they're not good at. reading people because they live in this. [ __ ] world of blinders where they're. just trying to be charismatic and push.

forth some fake story like I can't like. I I watched this one where this woman um. hired uh an undercover police officer to. kill her husband I know this case and. she goes into histrionics yes and they. all know that she did it they're allware. ma'am your husband was oh I can't. believe and she hugs the officer it's. like wow this is crazy to watch how how. uh rewarding must it be to be that cop. oh my God it's probably hilarious you're. like this crazy [ __ ] yeah yeah.

especially fortunately if you're dealing. with a murder that didn't actually take. place here's an incredible story about. serendipity and that relates to serial. killers so in 1989 I'm then with a. girlfriend we're going to the Sho region. which is in Northern Quebec it's about 5. 6 hours North of Montreal by car where. it's very famous because the beluga. whales come there to me the the white St. Lawrence whales I don't know if you know. them but they're these beautiful very.

rare whales they're all white oh wow and. so we had gone up there and we're we end. up at this Inn uh in the middle of you. know Quebec Countryside and I walk in. there there's this tall American. Greeting me I'm I'm surprised like speak. English he he's speaking English to me. and I so I put a book that's crazy. enough up there right absolutely and so. I have a book with me that I'm reading. at the time I was thinking you know.

maybe I'll go into maybe forensic. psychiatry which would mean I would go. to med school or I'd go into forensic. psychology because I was very interested. in criminology but then I decided I. think rightly so that it's too dark for. me also as a career yeah and so I was. reading a book titled alone with the. devil which you could probably pull it. off pull it up which is a book that was. written by a forensic. psychiatrist out of LA. County system where he was the forensic.

psychiatrist who would interview many of. the most famous serial killers that were. running through LA County back then the. the Angelo Bueno the hill stride. stranglers the the the the nightstalker. the all those insane ones in Southern. California and so hence alone with the. devil meaning him sitting with yeah okay. and as I put the book down as I'm he's. this is the the guy who's checking me. into this uh kind of bed and breakfast. place uh he looks at it and he goes oh I.

know I know the author and I'm thinking. how does this american guy who's in. Northern Quebec know this author who's a. forensic psychiatrist in in La he goes. oh I used to be a public defender in the. LA County system then he met a woman who. was a quebecer and then they moved there. together and uh I I used to work with. this psychiatrist and as we started. talking he goes all I could tell you so. this is 1989 so I'm like a 23 24 year. old guy with long hair and he goes all I.

and I was telling him that I have a. brother who's in Southern California so. I always go see him and he goes all I. can tell you is don't ever ever do. something that gets you to go to LA. County jail for even a night because if. you piss off the cops they'll throw you. in there and they just scream fresh fish. out of water and then the guys will have. their way with you and so I made sure to. never drink and drive in LA county. because I don't think I would have.

losted 14 seconds so anyways let's hold. on let me okay fast forward to. 2013 I am in lck Texas I've been invited. to speak at the life sciences and. politics conference I'm the plenary. speaker and the political scientists who. invited me there takes me out for a. Texan. barbecue and as we're chatting he goes. you know I know you're from Quebec you. know my my father lives in uh in Quebec.

I said your father you're you're okay. can I just take a guess who your father. might be and you and I I said was your. dad a public defender in the LA County. system he looks at me as though I'm like. an. oracle he goes yes that's my dad so. imagine I meet a guy in. 1989 based on this book and he knows. that guy fast forward many many years.

later I meet his son who just tells me. oh my dad lives in Quebec I take a shot. at throwing and it was that guy that I. met in 1989 how is that for the. metaphysics of Life nut that's nuts it's. a small world that's that's weird that's. weird there's there's certain things. that are like okay what are we dealing. with here yeah like is this is this a. simulation like what is this right have. you seen the the thing about the book. from 1950 theory that talks about Elon. wanting to go to Mars like a Warner Von.

braa no have you seen this where's my. phone saw yeah Elon tweeted it you could. find it see like there's certain things. where you go come on the just even the. name Elon and elon's going to take us to. Mars like sorry you mean in in there's a. character so here it is this is in a. warneron bron book so Elon is the. elected leader of the Martian government. serving a five-year term Elon and their. cabin administrator have. enacted have laws enacted by two houses.

of Parliament Elon in Project Mars a. technical tale is the name of the. Martian leader and the connection. between the character and Elon Musk led. to speculation about Warner Von Bron's. influence on musk space exploration okay. so this is a book from I think it's 1953. okay you ready right is that when you. wrote it Jamie hold on 4 49 see if you. can find the um the the tweet that. elon's tweet cuz elon's tweet is. hilarious cuz like how's this possible. cuz he's like like this doesn't even.

make sense this is so crazy I do have. one non sexy explanation that can. explain this okay one of his parents was. a huge fan of that author read that book. and in honor of that character actually. called Elon Musk Elon sure that's great. great but what are the odds that guy's. going to develop Rockets that's true. what are the odds that your little baby. boy who you're naming when he was one. day old is going to develop 1953 book.

Mars project by Warner Bon Bron says the. leader of Mars Shall be Called Elon. someone pulled the original gernan. manuscript out of the archives debunk. this myth only to confirm that Von Bron. did indeed predict he'd be called Elon. and Elon writes how can this be real. it's it's kind of crazy it's kind of. crazy because the guys literally. obsessed with Mars and has created. rockets that you can. catch rockets that have you have you. seen when Trump explains that yeah it's. hilarious so amazing it's amazing what.

he can do with these Rockets it's it's. nuts man we're we're living in a very. very strange time what is this this is. elon's Dad says elon's father named him. after reading the book it's common. knowled amazing he after read okay so. amazing so I got that part still what. are the other still what are the odds. there's 8 billion people on this [ __ ]. planet what are the odds that your kid. who you named Elon because you read a. book becomes the guy and Elon didn't.

even know about it wow what about the. thing with Baron Trump have you heard. that that's nuts too wild find that one. that one's nuts too that one's. completely bizarre Baron the young kid. yeah what is it well he'll pull it up I. don't want to [ __ ] it up but there. there's a few of those that make you. wonder where like. is this a simulation is this real I feel. like there's aspects of it that are real. trying to find the year there's a series. of books from like I think it's the late. 1800s or something yeah about yeah it.

says 1900 here but it's like a a person. named Baron Trump goes on these. Adventures gets a like a guy from. Manhattan to be his like guide it's it's. very strange and very similar to like. what see if you can find what the. synopsis like what what connects it bar. trump it seems real weird it's almost. like like the telepathy thing like. someone in the past says I think. something's going to happen one day I. just get this feeling this Elon.

[ __ ] you know what I mean like. there's some I think there's some weird. things about the potential Futures and. that might be also what we're seeing. with this alien stuff I think this alien. stuff might be the future have you how. many times have you had Elon on the show. oh a bunch of times the book was called. the last president oh ad blocker the. last president. that's kind of crazy because if the [ __ ]. hits the fan in the aliens land he is. the last president n in 1889 novel. called Baron Trump's marvelous.

underground Journey was written by ingel. Saul Lockwood he would go on to write. another book called the last president. in. 1900 mystery which involves a trump. family Nicola Tesla time travel and dark. Forces. wow in a castle called Castle Trump so. he's a follows the adventures of a young. aristocat Aristocrat named Baron Trump. living in a castle named Castle Trump. which is [ __ ] crazy the characters. describ as intelligent curious and. somewhat arrogant Guided by his mentor.

Dawn his mentor. Dawn Baron embarks on a Fantastical. Journeys including one to discover a. magical portal in. Russia uhoh Putin connections confirm. Jesus Christ it's like is this [ __ ]. is life [ __ ] is life real wow I. think life's mostly real but you know. this is the problem with the whole idea. of simulation theory is that if uh if. it's true if there is a simulation and.

the simulation if we we develop. technology where the simulation becomes. IND discernable from reality itself how. will we know maybe we'll know from goofy. Clues like that like like silly coating. Easter eggs that God leaves behind I. would love to know what was the. mechanism by which for each of those. stories that that you came up with who. came up with like is is was it just a. fan of one of those books who said wait. a minute and right well the weird one is. why is wer Von Bron writing fiction when.

he's a [ __ ] Nazi why in Nazi running. NASA and before that he was writing. fiction like what How's he have time. how's he have time to write fiction when. this guy's in the middle of developing. rockets for the Germans yeah wow amazing. amazing story so what what. how what are some of the things that you. know you take away when you interact. with Elon because I've I've gotten I've. been fortunate enough to get to know him. a bit better now and so on and I'm just. amazed by what what an amazing guy he is. what what are some of you your views. well he's just a fascinating human being.

like if we didn't live in a time of Elon. Musk and you were studying him in. history you'd be like Jesus Christ what. was that guy like that guy must have. been insane this guy's running five. different companies simultaneously unb. trying to develop Department of. government efficiency at the same time. and like he's a very unique human being. exists once every who knows how many. generations and and to if and to think. that there are so like when this Nazi. salute thing came out and of course you.

know I I debunked it and there's some. way to it because I happen to be Jewish. and I know him but do you really need me. to come out with my impr premature to. say no no no people don't really believe. he made a Nazi salute they want to. believe so they say they believe because. you can get him on that and he's on the. defensive it's an an attack Vector okay. so you don't you don't you don't think. anybody who think he's a [ __ ] Nazi he. literally wears a thing around his neck. that says bring them all home yeah about. the hostages or did you see when he said. I think I don't know if it was after Ben.

Shapiro when he went with him to to I. think it was aitz or something and he. said I am Jewish. yes yeah he's you know he's a. fascinating human being and all. fascinating human beings especially all. people that are in incredible positions. of power and wealth which is what he is. is you're going to get attacked and you. get attacked by a lot of bad faith. arguments and this is one of them well. the last time I was in uh in. Austin you know we we had we had met up.

in person and uh but it was delayed our. meeting because he ended up having to go. to all sorts of depositions and so he. would be texting me and saying oh I'm in. this I'm in this hellish deposition and. then later when we met he kind of told. me a bit about it I mean I won't share. some of the stuff but I'm thinking you. know if at my level I get people coming. after me mhm it's unimaginable to even. think at what level right for me it's a.

troll coming after me or an annoying. academic or an islamist who sends me a. death threat okay fine but I mean he's. getting government's attacking him he's. getting so it's but yet he just keeps. Trucking along it's unbelievable well I. mean it really helps have $400. billion that does help that helps a lot. but you know if he didn't buy Twitter I. think the world would be a a far more. [ __ ] up place right now I think we. would be far more confused far less free. to express ourselves and the narrative.

the cultural narrative shifted because. of people's ability to freely Express. themselves now on social media in front. of everybody where you you just didn't. have that before well I I I mean. literally within few days of it being. maybe even the same day of it being. announced that he was buying it I had. put out a clip on my channel where I. said of all things that Elon Musk has. ever done or will ever do none will ever. count as much as him having bought.

Twitter if it if it didn't happen you. would have a complete cult likee. takeover of all public discourse all. public discourse would be controlled by. this ridiculous ideology this woke. ideology this what you call mind virus. yeah and that mind virus would have been. used by. corporations and it has been and used by. government and it has been used in order.

to enact more control over its citizens. under the guise of protecting. marginalized people and protecting ideas. it seems like they're doing the right. thing and it seems like opposing that is. doing the wrong thing but it's just a. wolf and sheep's clothing that's all it. is it's just control it's it's just the. the government was they don't give a. [ __ ] about Dei all they give a [ __ ]. about is votes and power and control and. if they can use Dei to get their way and.

if they can use whatever green energy. [ __ ] they're pushing whatever. they're doing they're not doing it. because they're trying to save you. that's nonsense if you look at it from. the perspective of this is to gain more. power more influence and make more money. then you'll see things more clearly so. I've I've been asked by in on many in. many different contexts do you think. that this is it this is the end of all. the parasitic stuff and I keep imploring. people to not be complacent and that be. complacent exactly because sure Donald.

Trump is a huge door stop to all the. insanity but here's the analogy I like. to draw so you know how there's the. evolution of the Super Bug that comes. about because of the. misapplication of the antibiotic. regiment so what happens basically I. mean it literally is a natural. right so yeah so because I'm supposed to. take the antibiotics for 5 days but I. only take it for two days and I. immediately feel a lot better I sto.

taking it but what that has created is. that the weak bacteria have died off. whereas the ones that have survived. until that point have only become. stronger and through the misapplication. of the prescription for antibiotics I. then contribute to the evolution of the. superbug. so I argue so I'm analogizing now with. the w m. virus it's if you don't completely do. the antibiotic regiment fully which in.

this case means eradicating all those. parasitic ideas everywhere right because. it took 50 to 100 years for those bad. ideas to originally be spawned and. flourish in the University ecosystem. right so you're not going to get rid of. them in a four-year term with Donald. Trump and we never see them again so it. has to be a continuous cultural War to. eradicate those now you'd like to think. that it won't take 50 to 100 years to. eradicate them but it's not going to.

start and end with Trump I'm thinking. you agree with that yes no I definitely. do agree with that and I think that it's. also you have to take into consideration. although Trump won and Trump is. controlling the cabinet and all these. different people going to be able to do. his agenda he's still have almost half. the country that didn't vote for him so. and all and people are always tribal and. so they're going to be opposed to. everything even the good things that. he's doing they're going to find fault. in it did you see the CBS uh interview. with JD Vance Just One Clip [ __ ]. amazing oh so I should watch the whole.

thing oh my God it's a master class he. just yeah he is he is impressive so good. he is really good you have has he been. on your show yeah he's great that thank. God for that guy he he's so good at. dismantling those Dopey people yeah and. just breaking down like she was like. this is a country built on immigrants. he's like yes that doesn't mean that 240. years later we have to have the dumbest. immigration policy possible well and so. actually in my forthcoming book that I'm. trying to wrap up now suicidal empathy I. have a section where I talk about these.

kinds of immigration arguments and I use. something from cognitive psychology it's. called categorization Theory how do you. categorize something so when people say. you're such a hypocrite Gad you're an. immigrant why are you railing against. immigrants your buddy Elon Musk is an. immigrant and so then I usually give. them the following uh analogy satirical. analogy but a valid one I say Pho the. house cat is a feline so is the male. lion in the African jungle they're both.

called feline therefore I'm just as. likely to want to snuggle when I go on a. safari in Namibia next to the feline. called the house uh the the male lion no. I recognize that even though they're. both called feline there is a. distinction between two I don't. categorize them as an Exemplar of the. same identity whereas what these people. play is you're an immigrant why do you. rail against immigrants so isn't it.

astonishing that you could have such. shoddy thinking that you're unable to. recognize what I just said it is but. it's again it goes back to this tribal. thing is that people don't want to admit. that having an open border is going to. let in terrorists yeah because the. previous administration which was. Democratic had essentially an open. border policy and it was based on this. concept of empathy and you have. Sanctuary cities like New York and then. as soon as the mayor opposes it well.

guess what he gets indicted like it's. all so transparent it's so crazy it's. right in front of your face and so I I I. don't understand what they're doing and. you know there's a lot of arguments. they're doing it for cheap labor they're. doing it to get votes they're doing it. whatever they're doing you're making. things less safe and to oppose getting. rid of cartel members and gang members. and criminals pedophiles and serial. killers to oppose getting rid of them. and deporting them is just nuts well the. do make any sense the perfect example of. this kind of parasitic idea and suicidal.

empathy is that Bishop that just spoke. that kind of Le Trump right they're your. dishwashers they're but nobody's. questioning that there might be lovely. people that doesn't take away from the. fact that you shouldn't have an open. border policy but she's so committed to. empathy that she views any position. contrary to complete capitulation of. your border as non-empathetic right and. that is the perspective of the extreme. leftists yeah and that's a it's a it's a. cult-like perspective it doesn't hold up.

to scrutiny it doesn't make sense what. it's not empathetic certainly not. empathetic to the people that are victim. to those people right exactly well it's. not it's not empathetic to the I think. 900 biological women who lost medals did. you see that study yeah right so but. what you're every like it's just a small. amount a small number well is 900 small. what would be a big number here's the. big thing there was not 900 10 years ago. right okay so what happened in 10 years. and what happens 10 years from now are.

are we willing to have all female sports. dominated by men right who believe that. they're women that's crazy right that. doesn't make any sense right well in. Canada there was a 50-year-old man who. identified with a as a teenage girl so. he's competing in swimming events I. believe he was a professor as well I. sazed this in the parasitic mind where I. said that through trans gravity I. identify as much smaller weight than I. really am and through trans agism I am.

an eight-year-old boy so I'm competing. in the under eight Judo competition. isn't it nuts and then that actually. turned out to be true where people. that's ridiculous I remember watched. Dennis Prager on Bill Mar show a long. time ago and he was talking about how. men can menstrate next thing you're. going to be saying men can menstrate and. the whole place goes nuts and screams. you're like what are you saying cuz this. was quite a while ago and now it's. common placeon Place common place to say. Ben commen in fact tampon Tim Tim wals. the guy was he was putting tampons in.

the men's room so at Concordia which is. my home University right I'm now at. Northwood but my home. University had last May a one-day. Symposium on menstrual Equity because. menstruation is a human right what the. [ __ ] does that mean like what does that. mean menstrual Equity how can you get. men to menr I'll I'll I'll I'll send you. privately like literally human right. it's a human right like until that. Symposium women had been stopped from.

menstruating in Canada does that mean. what does it mean it's so crazy well. unfortunately for us in Canada unlike. you guys have the Savior Trump yes. Trudeau is resigned officially or you. know won't be running won't be running. the country for much longer but we're. much further down the the woke Abyss. than you guys are so it's cautionary. tale yeah exactly so I think yes Pier. Pierre PV will be an obvious massive.

improvement over is that how you say it. I mean if you say it with the proper. French actually yeah it's p how other. people say it differently what's the. wrong way to say it every other way that. an American or English Canadian would. say it so I I even heard people say like. poette no no it's. PV PV yeah Pier PV. he's a very logical guy it was one of. the things that was interesting reporter. questioned him on whether or not he. aligns with Donald Trump in that there. are two genders and he said well if. there's other genders I'd like you to. tell me what they are that's I'm open to.

tell me what they are that one was great. but of course the classic one the Apple. yeah when he was eating an apple great. that was like straight out of a. spaghetti western well it seems like. that's what your country needs and I I. hope it happens I I hope he wins yeah I. hope there's some sort of a a. recognition that if if America changes. course and course corrects and America. starts to thrive and do better which I. think it will yeah and gets the violent. crime down and a lot of the issues down. and prices down and if all that stuff.

happens I hope Canada comes to its. census and and wakes up from this woke. trance I mean I think it will but it'll. be a longer autocorrection yeah unless. you become the 51st state come on join. up by the way do you know that I posted. a a post on on Twitter on X where I. tagged Trump I said dear Donald Trump. look can you invade Canada it won't take. more it won't take more than four to six. committed Marines or something like that. like like really to show how wimpy we.

are and if you saw the tagging of. Concordia that I got on X because people. were saying you have a Canadian. Professor who is being treasonous and. get How could a human being be so. lacking the same thing as the Hitler. thing with with Elon it's like you're. pretend so they don't really believe it. no it's an attack Vector they're just. looking at it's like I can go after him. now and this is what this is one of the.

major problems with social media is that. it's like it's really good for that yeah. it's really good for people to be shitty. and to you know what we talked about. it's like it's the least connected form. of discourse between human beings it's. so it's so much shittier than verbal. communication and what is eventually. going to be telepathic communication is. going to fored that to the point where. you're not going to have to wonder what. a person thinks you're going to know. what they think you you almost I don't. think I I've seen you in many years ever. engage anyone on X right no I mean.

occasionally I I wanted to get Peter. hotz to debate with Bobby Kennedy. because and he was calling me a Neo. fascist it's a Neo fascist leanings like. and I was like this is so ridiculous. like I'll I'll give a a bunch of money. to the charity of you're choosing oh yes. I remember that I said I'll donate. $100,000. you pick a charity debate him here. explain what's going on if you're so. smart and you're so correct come debate. him and nobody you know he didn't want. to do it it's just the whole thing is.

just like I don't like to do that. because I don't like it's going to sound. very hippie I don't like negativity I. don't want to argue with anybody I I. don't even want to argue with people. that I disagree with if I disagree with. someone I'd like to have a discussion. with them I'd like to have a calm civil. discussion with the I don't think things. should be I think should avoid personal. attacks and all that stuff whenever. possible I think it's bad for you is. this something that you adhere to even. in your personal relationships okay yeah.

I don't argue people I'm not interested. I don't I don't like bad vibes I can. disagree with someone and I that's I'll. have people on the podcast I disagree. with them I'm never mean to them I never. call them names and I don't I don't. think it's good for you I don't think. it's good even if I'm look I'm good at. it okay I'm a professional [ __ ] talker I. could talk a lot of [ __ ] right if I want. to make fun of someone I can make fun of. someone pretty easily I don't want to I. don't want to not interested I mean I. make fun in jokes I do stand up I make. fun on podcasts we [ __ ] around and joke. around but in real life or in in actual.

communication with another person I. don't want it I don't think it's. necessary for you to have a full rich. life I think it's uh junk food I think. it's it's essentially like you don't. need to eat chips don't eat chips chips. are killing you and Mountain Dew's. killing you don't eat Mountain Dew right. I think negativity is bad for everyone I. think it's bad for the person who pushes. it out it's bad for the person that. receives it it's the reason why people. don't like being canceled all these. people are dumping on you it's all this. negativity and like oh and you feel.

terrible and they know you feel terrible. so they keep piling on they I think it's. bad for them I think it's bad for your. soul I think it's bad for your. self-respect for how you view yourself. as an evolved human being like that you. want to do that to a person and go after. them like that I mean the only. exceptions are if someone's a criminal. someone's doing something like you know. if you're the head of a pharmaceutical. drug company that's pushing stuff on. people that's killing people and you. know it is and you're hiding it if. you're a person who's involved in the.

trafficking of you know underage sex. workers or whatever what whatever it is. it's evil if you want to go after pure. evil in the world okay I get it but most. of what people do when they're really. shitty to each other is like political. disagreements or IDE logical. disagreements and it just it shows your. weakness as a person well so I think it. was Henry Kissinger who said this he to. your point he said never are the battles. so Fierce as when the stakes are so low.

so I think it's us to your point right. so people get all animated and I think. it's also a lot of people that don't. understand real conflict right the the. high I think people have a certain. amount of um anticipation just being a. human being again with old operating. system that we have yeah there's a. certain amount of anticipation of an. enemy and of a threat and of a thing. that you have to defeat yeah I think. it's just a naturally built it's. naturally built into us to the point.

where people become illogical especially. when they get super Tribble they're on a. team we're on a team so we have to. defeat the people on the other team so. you say horrible things about people on. the other team on Twitter and then. people retweet it and post it you and. you feed off of it I think it's a stupid. way to communicate I think it's a stupid. way for human beings to think and behave. and I think it goes back to what I said. before about ideas that you're not your. ideas you you cannot be your ideas if. you want to talk about ideas just talk. about what the ideas and what you think.

things should be and what this is what. you think is going on and have and have. respectful conversations with people. that disagree and that's that's the best. way to communicate that's just too hard. to find so I had one negative. interaction that sat very badly with me. after the fact. and I think we've now cleared it so to. to your point about not going after. someone I mean usually you know I'm a. very affable guy and warm and the whole. thing but sometimes if somebody pisses.

me off I just kind of call him a [ __ ]. [ __ ] call him a [ __ ] [ __ ] but. usually not someone that I know it's. just it's but even if it's a person that. you don't know there's a person on the. other end of that that's true but. usually if I call you a retards because. you've been kind of doing stuff. endlessly after me right so you don't. punch a guy if he just slap you one time. but if he slaps you 18 times you're. probably going to no you should punch. him if he slaps you once there you go. cuz slaps usually lead to something else. there you go can't let a gota get away. with us slot so I you know I we're in. Austin so there was a point where Lex.

fredman was doing all the Love Will. Conquer everything stuff and it was. pissing me off because it was in the. context of let's say the Middle East. where I come from where I know that love. doesn't conquer all and so that stick. was getting me angry and so I kind of. went after him not like in a mean way. calling him names but I said you know. it's kind of infantile to think that. love conquers everywhere or something. and then he he got upset and then had. blocked me and that never sat well with.

me not because he had blocked me but. because I don't like to have can you. know uh maintaining a bad Vibe with. someone right right you kind of maintain. it if you're still blocked if I'm still. blocked and are you still blocked now I. don't know if I'm still blocked I bet. you're stilled blocked I don't maybe I. don't think he unblocked people I. thought you can't block people now well. you can block people still you just can. still still so you can to his credit and. I think mine we kind of kissed and made.

up and he said oh you know if you ever. come to Austin uh you know I I'm always. happy to talk to you and I'd love to and. I'm a fan of your work and we haven't. been able to connect connect thank you. I'll con you yeah but that makes so to. your point that made me feel better. because was like this negativity even. though I never met him and I don't know. him I don't like that there's a guy that. exists that is in any way upset at. something that I said about him right. he's not a Nazi he's not a islamist.

terrorist I I don't want that and so I. take your point and and I'm glad we. patched uh we cleared up haven't cleared. it up yet with the our mutual oh yeah. that guy the the Malibu. meditator well you know he's on his own. Journey but. even I've I've really toyed with just. sending him an email and it doesn't. matter like it's not like he's in my. close personal circle of friends but I. don't like having so I want to say hey.

hey buddy you know there's no hard. feelings between you think I should do. it yeah why not yeah exactly yeah it's. not going to hurt I had a conversation. with him on the phone uh I think you. know life is short life is short goes by. very quickly and like I said I think. that stuff engaging in that stuff is. just like like eating junk food I I. don't think you should do it yeah don't. think it's smart but less less enjoyable. than junk food of all the wonderful. conversations we've had one of the. pieces of advice that always rings in my.

head from Joe Rogan is you read your. effing comments are you insane or. something like that you had said to me. because one time I was we were chatting. and you said and I was upset yeah and so. every time I almost feel like I'm. falling into that trap where I'm. starting to scroll I go Joe Rogan and. then I so there's also a thing too where. if someone writes something for some. reason it seems more real than if they. just say it to their friend yes you know. people talk [ __ ] all the time they say. things and then they say I shouldn't.

have said that you know but when it's. written down it's out there forever on. the internet right which is really weird. yeah you know which is it's another. aspect of it that's very strange earlier. you were talking about uh uh standup. Comics something I can't remember. exactly what you're saying but I and I. thought I have to tell him this guy the. funniest bit I've ever seen of course. you will know it the bit with Bobby Lee. and Brian Callen and another guy I don't.

know what his name is where he's telling. them that he was molested by a Downs guy. yes Brendan sha yeah so I've probably. watched that 10 times and there hasn't. been a tedium in my laughter like. usually if you see a joke the fourth. time is less funny so every time I go. back to it and I watch it I laugh as. much as the previous time I watch it's. very ridiculous yeah but that's the. beauty of podcast it's like you could. never have something that ridiculous on. like Saturday Night Live or on the Jimmy.

Kimmel show or any late night talk show. he it's like the only place that's No. Holds Barred like that is podcast oh he. that guy's really funny Bob's very funny. he's very funny I I kind of got I first. learned of him I saw him uh on Curb Your. Enthusiasm where he was do you know do. you know that he was on that I didn't. know he was on that yeah he he's like a. Korean bookie to Larry David or. something and whatever some funny and. he's speaking with a Korean accent so on.

and I thought oh who's this guy and then. I discovered him and so I watched some. of his standup I mean some of it is a. bit harsh but but he is he is funny he's. very he's a good dude too I saw him in. uh with Bill Mah. recently and I'm sorry no disrespect for. Bill Mah but I think Bobby Lee is a lot. funnier than Bill Mah but what do I know. I'm not a professional comedian they're. purely he's purely funny whereas Bill. Mah is very political and opinionated. and right you know he he has that sort.

of antagonistic personal style of. politics and yeah it's never just about. idea it's complete mockery of everything. it's like a comedic bent on everything. right which everybody likes different. things you know some people like that. you you've had them on the show yeah. yeah I've had them on yeah a couple. times I like them just just like I don't. talk to people like that though and this. is like as I've gotten older and wiser. and had more experiences in life and. thought about things more and more and. more I've decided to engage in as little. of that [ __ ] as possible so it's.

interesting because you're interested in. a sport that's all about combat and. fighting and yet you live by the motto. of the exact opposite of that which I. wonder if many fighters might have that. because they a lot of Fighters have that. because they realize that their. physicality is actually quite ominous I. want to live exactly the opposite of. that in my personal engagements with. people they also realize like all that. is extra energy it's all just energy. that you're giving out to conversations. online arguing with people online just.

bad energy right it's not it's not a. good use of energy I should say it's. it's a improper use of energy it's a. waste this is what I described people. and I'm sorry if I've heard if you've. heard this before I say think of your. mind as your mind has units of thought. you have aund units that you can use and. you're using 30 of them on social media. arguing about St now you've deprived. yourself of your music or your poetry or. your art whatever you do that you really.

like to do you've deprived yourself of. your access to your your units of. thought that can focus on this positive. thing because you're spending time. arguing about whatever the [ __ ] it is. whatever it is online yeah whatever it. is whatever you just why why so let's. say forgive me for asking intrusive. question are you able to stick true to. that motto as a fight is brewing with. your wife yeah I don't argue with like. that I don't ever like I don't get mean.

ever never I don't I don't we don't even. yell we'll talk about stuff we we we'll. disagree on stuff but it never gets. shitty I don't think you should talk to. people like that that are your friends I. don't think you should talk to your. loved ones like that yeah I mean. sometimes you have to tell your friend. hey dude you're being a [ __ ] idiot. like you got to stop doing that you're. going to ruin your life well you're. doing it for their benefit and sometimes. you have to speak in harsh language just. to let them know how you actually feel. about what's happening but for the most. part I don't think it's I don't think.

it's good in any way shape or form and. if you're in one of those relationships. where you yell at each other and throw. things at each other and call each other. the worst things possible and then make. up like well December 5th I just. celebrated 25 years congratulations sir. thank you sir how long have you how how. long 15 15 yeah look it's it's beautiful. to be happy it's beautiful to be in a. good relationship but like all things. like online communication like P. interpersonal communication it takes. work yeah and you have to have you know. a thought like this is what I don't want.

out of my life I don't want conflict I. don't want [ __ ] and I don't want to. be the cause of conflict so you have to. have your own [ __ ] together too some. people they don't want conflict but they. create it all the time by stupid. decisions and bad behavior and you got. to learn that too but so how do you are. you able to completely do this when. people are coming after I don't people. come after me all the time I mean troll. I mean like people I know come after me. all the time I ignore it you right and I.

don't engage okay I'm good luck you can. have your opinions about me good luck. it's okay have fun enjoy your life I I I. self assess all the time I self audit my. own behavior I'm My Own Worst critic. right so things that other people that. are saying about me with they especially. if they're inaccurate it doesn't work it. doesn't affect me I don't care right I'm. happy you are a model to live by Sir. well I try but it's hard work it's not. like this is an it's an easy thing to.

like to try to stay at peace all the. time do you ever do you ever foresee. deciding I've spoken to all the. interesting people I could you do yeah. there could be a point in time I don't. want to do this anymore but I think it'. be more related to not want to be public. at anymore not not interested in like. having your thoughts out there in the. world okay it might be come a point in. time where I want to enter a different. phase of my life where I don't think. about expressing myself publicly anymore.

okay that could be I could see that. where I'm just thinking about just. living my life doing the things that I'm. interested in because I'm interested in. a lot of things and I don't want to. limit the amount of things that I'm. exposed to that I'm interested in what. are some of the things that uh you're. taking you know the ramics course that. you've. always you know whatever you know what. what are some of the things that are oh. between like I'm full of stuff between. martial arts and comedy and archery and.

playing pool and all the different. things that I enjoy doing I when people. tell me they're bored I just don't. understand I don't understand how you. can be bored the world is so interesting. there's so many different things to. learn but by the way what you just said. is exactly why your podcast has been so. successful UC F because you. exude in French you say right a joy for. living and that Curiosity that you know. insatiable love of life that makes you.

open to all these other people who sit. in deceit that you say give it to me and. if you didn't have that quality you. could have had all the other qualities. if you didn't have that quality I don't. think your show would have been. successful you're probably. right so you're no but it's true yeah no. I'm sure because I mean a lot of people. will tell you know they'll ask me oh you. know you know Joe what you know what's. his secret I say there's no secret he's. a cool guy who wants to have cool. conversations I mean it really is I. think the secret is numbers too it's.

putting in the numbers like I I do a lot. more podcasts than most people so and. five days a week right four mostly four. sometimes three sometimes five okay more. threes than FES but a bunch of fives um. but the most important thing is just for. 15 16 years it's like I just I've done. it forever and so in doing it for that. long over the course of that immense. amount of time talking to people you. just get better at talking to people. it's like everything else you get better. at it the more you do it and then you.

understand what sucks about what you're. doing what percentage I'm not asking you. to give names or. anything what percentage of guests that. come on your show the first time you've. come to the realization that they're not. good enough enough conversationalist to. ever invite again is it it happens yeah. it happens I I don't want to give a. number but I mean it definitely happens. it's like you don't know until you talk. to someone and some people you can tell. some people are bullshitting you and.

some people are pushing an agenda and. some people just aren't that good at. talking and they're not compelling and. you can't drag anything out of them and. you know well this would be a one-time. conversation right yeah it happens but. thankfully for you know you and I what. is this this our number 11 11 wow I was. going to say 10 wow and I'll just say. this uh I think my first time was 2014. wow we're 2025 so that means we are on. one one show a year well we just bang. down another good for many more years. thank you sir thank you sir it's always.

a pleasure such always a pleasure. appreciate you very much thank all right. bye everybody. [Applause]. [Music].