Joe Rogan Experience #2235 - Mike Rowe

Joe Rogan podcast check it out The Joe. Rogan Experience Train by day Joe Rogan. podcast by night all. day we got scars we got coffee we got. Mike R we Carl's over there. snoring so what were you doing on. QVC what were you selling that was the. greatest line from Blazing Saddles by. the way when Jean Hackman which line he. he says cigars remember Peter Bole is.

coming he had just left and Jean Hackman. is there after getting the soup spilled. in his lap and he's basically saying I. had cigars as the creature Stomps off in. Frankenstein I don't remember. that it's been too long since I've seen. that. movie best uh he's a little bit of a. [ __ ] distraction can he uh calm down. I don't hear him on the TR him I don't. hear him at all oh we hear him we don't.

have our headphones on maybe should put. our headphones on I thought you were. talking about me no Carl for an awful. moment like we we wore him out Jamie was. throwing the toy for Carl and now. he's he's such a great dog he's got I. mean he's adorable I mean it's it's such. a personality thing at that for me with. dogs and pets in general you know like. you know right away if this thing has a. personality oh he's got a lot of Carl's. got a lot of Personality yeah there's no. doubt about that yeah and a little kid.

and a person name which I think is super. interesting mine's Freddy he's a terrier. but I like a dog with a person name yeah. me too like pho what the [ __ ] is a phto. no one knows unless well actually oh no. that's Pho I was thinking of Clint. Eastwood and Every Which Way but Loose. he was Pho Betto could also be Pho. Farnsworth who created the television. for real yeah did only one guy do it or. was it one of those like light buob type. deals where like a bunch of people were. scrambling for it and what call that.

like a like a hive. mentality right yeah right right like. that happened with the integrated. circuit right when uh Kilby at Radio. Shack was doing the same basic work I. think that uh Robert noise was doing for. Intel MH and one was here in Texas and. the other was in California and they had. never met and they had never compared. notes but the work on the circuitry was. so close that they wound up sharing the.

Nobel Prize oh that's interesting super. super strange but that you know I don't. know that's a common thing with human. beings and and it's this concept of uh. morphic residence have you ever heard of. that concept uh Rupert sheld Drake he. wrote about this and the idea is and. it's based on some actual facts too. about there's um some real statistics. about rats like if you teach a rat how. to run a maze in on the east Coast a rat.

on the west coast will run it. faster it's like they learn the pattern. somehow or another it's very bizarre. there's like information that's. apparently shared across species and the. idea is that somehow or another they're. quantumly entangled like that the entire. group of these specific types of animals. are quantumly entangled or entangled in. some way that we don't understand so. it's a kind of I mean I would think. biological Evolution might might flirt.

with that I read a paper a guy wrote. name was Patrick house he this was his. PhD and he was talking about Toxoplasma. gandi and histoplasmosis and it was a. crazy paper his his real premise was. trying to understand the phenomenon of. the cat lady and why like why why why. every culture like this isn't unique to. America in in every culture you can find. a woman who you know two cats three cats.

maybe but like went all the way to 38. right and just was like this perfectly. normal so his paper was what happens to. a person's brain to tell it it's normal. to have 38 cats and then it gets super. complicated because he identifies a. Gandhi ey that lives in the cat's gut. and and basically breeds there and what. he learned was when the cats were uh. crapping the the gandi ey would would.

come out and then the rats and the mice. that ate the cat crap something was. happening to their brains on a. neurological level this Gandhi ey. basically disabled the part of the brain. that would tell an otherwise sensient. rat to run from the cat but suddenly. they weren't running they became prey. and they became docile and the cats. started obliterating the mice and rat. population because this thing that was.

breeding in its ass was effectively. making its prey easier to catch so Dr. House thought well you know we've all. heard about why pregnant women should. stay away from cats cuz that that can. have an effect and a rat's brain and a. human brain have a surprising number of. of parallels so he basically postulated. that you know Doris the cat lady was. living fairly normal life until she got.

just a little bit of cat [ __ ] on on her. fingers and and ate it and the gandi ey. disabled the part of her brain that said. hey maybe two cats is. enough it's worse than that it actually. makes the rats sexually attracted to the. smell of cat urine exactly right yeah it. actually makes them aroused yeah yeah. now I don't know if Doris went that far. have you ever seen them like run up to. cats the toxo infected rats it's bizarre. y run right up to them the cat's like.

what the [ __ ] is going on the cats like. bounce away from the rat no it's like. it's like watching The Beatles at the Ed. Sullivan Theater you know the people. like what are you what's wrong with you. people why what's happening M psychosis. yeah yeah that's super interesting you. know there's also a disproportionate. number of motorcycle victims that test. positive for toxo they not yeah it makes. people more impulsive it makes them more. uh Reckless and impulsive and um. countries that have high rates of. Toxoplasma have more successful soccer. teams.

I read and I think this I got more of. these too look I don't want to compete. I'm going to lose but you'll love this. and you probably already know it um. homeostatic risk and risk equilibrium. and the unintended consequences. especially with motorcycle riders that. emanate from safety protocols gone too. far really yeah so like every like if. you. study the way you drive your motorcycle. like you measure every decision that you.

make in terms of cornering and speed and. breaking and all that stuff uh and then. you measure the same things with all the. safety gear employed including a helmet. especially a helmet you drive faster you. Corner tighter you take more chances. because the risk equilibrium that we all. have in our brain is different from one. person to the next but what's the same. is our design.

to compensate for the environment around. us so compensatory risk and the. subconscious decisions that we might. make behind the wheel when we're buckled. up versus not buckled up when we have. abs breakes as opposed to not having. them they did a big survey in Berlin. years ago where they took half of the. taxis and they put in state-of-the-art. braking systems and half of them and. left the others the same and then they.

hooked up the the cars to monitor every. driver decision and in and in virtually. every case the drivers with the better. safety gear took more chances because. their brain is subconsciously. compensating oh right it's it's the same. sense it's yeah I mean it's it's. controversial but I I understand it it's. it's why the most dangerous. intersections have signs that tell you. when to walk and when not to walk and. have cross because you it the little man.

is walking it says go so you step off. and there's the big blue bus and then. and then you're spattered so yeah the. unintended consequences of following. traditional safety protocols you know is. has always really been interesting this. episode is brought to you by zip. recruiter it takes a lot of hard work to. put this show together which is why I'm. grateful for the small circle of people. that work behind the scenes a team. effort is what makes this show. successful just like it takes a solid. team to make make any business.

successful if you're hiring and you want. to know how do you find the best person. for your team I think the answer is zi. recruiter and right now you can try it. for free at ziprecruiter.com Rogan. ZipRecruiter is the hiring site that. employers prefer the most based on G2. you'll immediately get your job posting. in front of qualified candidates and. then you can invite top candidates to. apply see why so many business owners.

and hiring managers are thankful for zip. recruiter four out of five employers who. post on zip recruiter get a quality. candidate within the first day go to. this exclusive web address right now to. try zip recruiter for free ZIP. recruiter.com Rogan again that's. ziprecruiter.com. zip recruiter the smartest way to hire. well it completely makes sense if you. have a vehicle that's more able capable.

you're going to probably drive it faster. and you're probably going to take more. risks cuz it can do stuff like I used to. think I I used to have a Lexus SUV this. big boat Lex and you know what I loved. about it I drove slow in it I was just. like real cuz it doesn't stop that good. it's not that fast but it's just it's. big and comfortable and it just chilled. me out and then I had an M3 I had two. cars at the time and my M3 was a zippy. little thing and I was flying around. that thing I was like why do I drive. different in this [ __ ] car than I do. in the big car the big car would just.

chill me out I just get in that big old. boat and I. just sure the world was like quiet out. there was nice and relaxed I think it's. a I I think it's a slightly different. analysis like if if if you're going to. adjust your behavior consciously to. adapt to the uh to the externality right. like you know you're going to drive. faster if you have a fast car because. you know that's why the guy built the. thing and it would almost be rude right.

it would be rude to drive a hot rod like. a boat you know it's the unconscious. things that you do uh when you assume or. mitigate risk as a result of employing. an externality that I think is is just. super interesting CU it is interesting. well cuz if it's right Joe if it's right. what it does is it turns all the safety. first.

protocols not necessarily on their head. but this happened in Dirty Jobs I did a. whole special called safety. third because because safety isn't. really first not really ever and cuz if. it was you would never get a lot of. things done well you'd never get out of. the studio you would definitely never do. construction heck no no you wouldn't do. anything yeah you you wouldn't do. anything it's uh you know like how you. gonna move steel gerss if safety's first. you'd be like first thing we should do. is not move this [ __ ] gerder that's. right this thing's too big that's right.

look I mean for me it was really a it it. took two years to kind of puzzle it. through because on dirty jobs for the. first two years nobody got hurt you know. we were and and we sat. through probably 50 mandatory safety. briefings whether it's mines or confined. spaces or high spaces or you know lock. out tagout all those protocols and. procedures were you know super intense.

and we were really really focused on. coming home alive and in one piece so we. like really paid attention but after two. years of these mandatory compulsory. meetings and all of these. procedures um we all started getting. hurt I mean not nothing serious but. broken fingers and you know a cracked. rib and singed off my eyebrows and my. eyelashes and and Mild concussions and. things like that I was like what the. hell's happened happening what was.

happening is the the safety experts in. all of these mandatory meetings started. to sound like remember Charlie Brown's. teacher yeah Mrs. Oar we were just falling asleep right so. it was like holy crap we're in. compliance but we are not out of danger. got it and so that begs the question. what you know what happens to a normal. person who actually comes to believe.

either on the job site or or just in. life that somebody else cares more about. their well-being than they do and it's. like that's when complacency rears its. ugly head so on Dirty Jobs we just it. was just shorthand among the crew but it. was always safety third which meant. heads up man keep your head on a swivel. you can be in you can be as compliant as. you want but in the end if you don't. want to fall off the bridge that's it's.

kind of on you is there also a factor. when you have a a person who's the. safety officer who's kind of annoying. and they're like really like super. interested and maybe you kind of like. Pawn off the the safety aspect to them. and then you don't think about it as. much because someone's supposedly. looking out for you how much do you. think about proper driving technique. when you're sitting in the back on your. laptop or even up front next to depends. on who's driving for sure if my if I was. driving and my wife was in the back seat.

she'd be paying attention a lot uh shout. out to your your guy uh what was his. name Ashton who picked me up this. morning excellent driver man oh I'm glad. you're happy with it just so you know I. mean I know he drives a lot of your. guests and I this is a feedback I want. to pass along he was uh you know very. frosty but yeah look I think any time. anytime that we abdicate responsibility. yeah yeah there's going to be it's like. whack-a-mole it's going to pop up. someplace else and and and it's probably. not going to be in your interest well.

your show like sort of illuminated a lot. of really crazy jobs that people. probably weren't aware of that you go oh. yeah if this guy didn't do this we'd. kind of be [ __ ] yeah and you don't. even think about it yeah it's just a. thing that's going on behind the scenes. or you know out of your radar yeah that. was it man it was how did you get. started in that like what who came up. with the concept well I mean technically. I guess I did but I mean I honestly.

there are no no ideas this I stole this. from George. plon uh studs turkle a little bit. Charles caralt some uh Paul Harvey a. little bit you know that that kind of. Storytelling was always kind of. interesting to me and um I I freelanced. for years probably 20 years in the. entertainment business uh working. pretty much whenever I wanted on shows.

that I didn't care about at all and I. was uh I was taking my retirement in. early installments and really happy with. the model you know I'd been fired a few. times from QVC and hired back and it was. 1993 when I finally left and I had a. decent toolbox I was great in auditions. so I could get. cast but I didn't I didn't really much. care about the nature of the work and. and uh had a pretty good balanced life.

really and then I was in uh San. Francisco working for a CBS on a show. called evening magazine you know the. show it comes on after sure like the. local news and I was a host and I would. go um every day this is a cushy gig. nobody watched the show but it was fun. to work on it was um you go to museums. you go to Wineries and then you throw to. these wrapped packages right it's all. just it's if there's a three-legged dog.

in Marin overcoming a heart tugging case. of canine kidney failure you know that. that was like an evening magazine story. we did these all the time um and my mom. called me and I was in my cubicle at CBS. and she says Michael your your. grandfather will be 90 years old. tomorrow and not my granddad by the way. seventh grade education uh electrical. contractor by trade but also a plumber.

and a steam fitter pipe he fabricate fix. anything he had that that chip you know. and he I grew up next to him on this. little Farmstead north of Baltimore and. I I knew I was going to follow in his. footsteps I knew it but the handy Gene. is recessive right I didn't get that and. it was my pop who got me he he basically. said dude just get a different you you. can be a Tradesman I know you're. enamored of being a Tradesman just get a. different toolbox. so that's what got me into entertainment.

and 20 years later I I had completely. run a muck I had sung in the Opera IID. sold stuff on QVC you s Opera eight. years man did you were you classically. trained not really how did you get how. did you get involved in opera scene well. it's a weird. look sidebar you go to the rosale public. library and you ask the librarian for. the shortest ARA they have like ever. written which happened to be by jakamo.

Pini is an Arya a song an Arya is a song. it's the they're in an opera most of the. big moments are Aras right and and most. of the Aras are you know I mean they're. they're sung by the main characters and. there are lots of ones that you would. recognize and in German they're in. Italian for the most part uh this one. was Italian it was uh from. laboom which is just another version of. rent essentially but uh it was called.

the coat Arya and uh it was only 2. minutes long and it was in Italian so I. walked around. Baltimore with you remember the Sony. Walkman yeah I remember I had one of. those I had one too and I listen to a. guy named Samuel Ry singing the coat. Arya about 2 minutes and 40 seconds and. the words didn't mean anything to me but. the sounds did and I can carry a tune so. I just memorized the sounds. and then I crashed an audition for the.

Baltimore. Opera in 19 no classic training at all. just a. Walkman and a. cassette yeah I had had a music teacher. prior to that like a like a Mr Holland. type of guy who actually changed my life. he kind of fixed a a stammer that I had. and then he forced me to audition for. plays that I didn't really want to be in. and then the craziest thing ever this.

guy his name was Fred King he was known. as king of the barber Shoppers he was. like a legend in this weird world of. Acappella. singing and he put me in a barber shop. quartet when I was in high school and. opened up like this very weird world of. Music written long before I was born. that I found super interesting and so my. best friends and I uh we. we just started learning these ancient.

songs and singing for people usually. unsolicited from nursing what kind of. [ __ ] dudes are you hanging out with. that were interested in doing this with. you dude well one of them is basically. my producer guy called Chuck clus Meer. who I went to high school with produces. my podcast that and we still write we. we'll write unauthorized Jingles for our. sponsors and sing them in four-part. harmony I'm not saying it's cool I'm. just saying it's a thing that I did when. I was young and I never really shook it.

cuz like wey leads on to wey right so. you knew how to sing I could carry it. too so you had some experience singing. kind of yeah and then you decided you. were going to learn how to sing opera. well what really happened was I decided. that my toolbox wasn't going to let me. work in the construction trades or do. anything my pop could do and he really. was a magician and I really took his. advice seriously so I wanted to be in. entertainment I didn't want to be in the. Opera I wanted to be on TV but I I.

needed an agent and I couldn't get an. agent unless I had my Screen Actor Guild. card and I couldn't get my sag card. unless I had an agent so I couldn't. audition for things that I wanted to do. unless I found a way around this weird. tautology and a friend of mine guy. called Mike gell told me he said hey so. there's the Screen Actor Guild there at. the time there was aftera and I'm sure. you were part of both yeah. the thing you didn't know about was.

agma the American Guild of musical. artists is a sister Union to the Screen. Actors Guild and to Afra who have since. combined and the rule back then was if. you could if you could get into any of. them you could simply pay your dues to. the other and then you you were in ah so. for me it was easier to kind of fake my. way into the Opera than it was onto a.

sitcom so my. plan this is all diabolical well I mean. it's a great plan I mean it's like that. kind of strategic thinking is very valid. you should be in the Navy or something. well um look I was just I was just. trying to get a job I know but it's. clever well there's always a stage door. right I mean there there there's always. a back way in right and so I thought you. know I I memorized the Arya I uh I. auditioned I was stoed halfway through. it by the musical director guy named.

Billy yutti who's like uh Mr row you uh. you have no idea what you're saying at. all do. you cuz you saying the words wrong you. were just repeating the sounds I was. singing it loud and I was singing it. like I like I understood what I was. saying right all I really understood was. the reparatory company was desperate for. young men with low voices I I knew that. and so I kind of looked the part so. whatever I got into it and my plan was.

to do uh one production or one season. like they would do three shows in a. season and I had some friends who were. in the chorus and I was just a chorus. member you I'm just holding a spear and. just singing along with the rest of the. course and my plan was to do one or two. of those get my card and then buy my sag. card and then go about the business of. being a famous TV star right simple well. The Music Man the the music was so much. better than I than I imagined it might.

be and like when you get up in the. catwalks of like a real theater you know. I mean you've done shows in these. theaters it's just nothing magically. different about them but when there's a. full. orchestra playing the hell out of verity. or rock monov and and and and you're. looking down on the scene and you're. looking out at the audience and the. sound is just just amazing and the. girls so like there I there there were.

uh 80 80 people I guess in the rep. company more or less 45 women 35. guys 30 of the guys had zero interest in. 100% of the women and of the remaining. five straight dudes three were married. and the only other single guy had a had. a mold the size of your thumb on his. eyelid with thick black hair like. growing out of it it was just I was the. really the only straight dude you were.

the bell of the ball and I'm dressed. like a. viking or a. pirate and I'm going on stage and I'm. I'm a fake I mean I admit it I I I I. barely learned the language enough to. kind of keep up and people in the in the. chorus took pity on me you know and it. was a world really it it was a world. that I didn't know existed and. once I saw it I didn't fall in love with.

it but I fell in love with the idea that. there were worlds out there that I. didn't know anything about and that were. maybe more interesting than I thought. and so I stayed for eight years wow yeah. I mean I never got out of the chorus I. never had like a you know a featured. role had a couple lines here and there. but the Baltimore Opera was a big deal. looking back at it and that was for me. 80 83 to to.

90 wow yeah and then Christ since we're. talking. well it was a Sunday and during the. intermission of something I think it was. during this nyal Lon this giant. Vagner epic torturous thing and the the. chorus didn't have to be this is the one. you saw it on bug's bunny killed the. webbit killed a it's that one right. right um so there's an intermission and.

I'm I I'm not needed on stage for like. 40 minutes after the intermission so I. go across the street to the Mount Royal. Tavern uh to drink a beer and watch the. football game dressed as a viking which. I which I recommend by the way would you. like would you walk in a bar with the. horns and the. spear the bartender knew me everybody. laughed and I I sat down but the game. wasn't on the bartender was watching. watching a fat guy in a shiny suit.

selling pots and pans and it was the. early days of the QVC cable shopping. channel I'm like Rick why are we why are. we watching this and he says because I'm. auditioning for that guy's job tomorrow. morning QVC was doing a national talent. search anyway uh we had a conversation. about the end of Western civilization. and what it meant for polite Society to. have a 24-hour infomercial that just. never went away and whether or not you.

know there was any honor at all in. auditioning for such a thing and at that. point I thought it'd be great to have. some money you know I hadn't had any. before and and I'm sitting there. drinking this beer dressed as a viking. thinking I I could probably do that job. if I had to so I went with him the next. day and. auditioned and got hired wow was he mad. the bartender yeah that you got the G. you know cuz you didn't even know about.

it well it's a good question I I I don't. know what became of him um we had a. friend we got a [ __ ] voodoo doll Mike. Row got a bunch of pins in it we had a. wager I said look I don't know if I'll. get the job but I but I bet I'll get a. call back he was like you're not going. to get a call back for this thing you. know we were just actors at the time or. like people pretending to be actors. trying to find you know he was nice. enough he sang in the Opera with me too. actually he also tended bar he just he. just wasn't in that one but um yeah it.

it was a very strange thing man to that. that was my first job in TV like I've. done some minor local commercial stuff. but I talked about a pencil for8. minutes that was the audition it was so. strange in those days they didn't have a. u like there's no Playbook to see who. can sell stuff on TV you know do you. have a script or you kind of like you.

have this facts about the pencil no. nothing here's what happens it again. it's it's probably changed today I think. QVC did 8 billion last year back in 1989. 1990 it was nothing like that and if. they hired a Salesman that didn't mean. you had anybody who understood really. how to behave on TV and If you hired a. TV person that didn't really mean you. look at you oh Jesus that's the cat sack. right there dude that's a sack for your.

cat what are you selling let me hear. this a sack for your cat what the [ __ ]. just crazy they just love it that's why. this is a cat. toy so the cats play with it yeah they. crawl inside it and they just go nutty. cuz it makes a lot of noise cost 25. bucks it that's 25. bucks roll around and sort of wrestle. with the. bag and just really so this is like sort. of just personality [ __ ].

around having fun with the toy and. selling it well that's what I did I look. remember that's what you did was that. novel that you were doing it that way. yeah yeah and in relative terms like. that was actually one of the great one. of the one of the true great life. lessons you know you you don't have to. be um outrageous to stand out you just. have to be relatively. outrageous so QVC was a steady diet of.

of men and women right doing the same. exact thing all the time right and then. at midnight or 3:00 a.m. I showed up and. put a cat bag over my head or busted. open a lava lamp so you're like a. morning. DJ kind of except right because they. they're kind of fun and that was. different than the regular radio guy you. know I would I mean for me I thought of. it more like uh. um like my favorite comedians and by the.

way I I saw one last night thank you uh. Ron White was over at the Mother Ship. he's there tonight too I stopped by last. night are you around tonight no I got to. get back tonight something about. Thanksgiving but I watched his set last. night he's awesome he was he was great. and the thing he's never been funnier. he's he's in top form right now it's. amazing he's gone he's gone full Messiah. dude he's I mean I didn't recognize him. oh with the look he said hello and I'm. like hey how are you I mean. you're back Jesus good to see you um he.

was great and and as I watched him do. his thing um it it reminded me like my. favorite. comedians I I never get the sense that. they're trying to make me laugh I get. the sense that they're trying to amuse. themselves right and I and and that's. what makes it comfortable for me to be. in the audience to see somebody who you. know hey if I laugh that's just a happy. symptom of whatever ever it is you're. going to do anyway it makes me.

comfortable and then that that's why. he's fun to watch you know that that's. why this podcast is fun to listen to. same reason I I couldn't have. articulated that um 35 years ago sitting. there selling a cat sack you intuitively. knew something I knew in the middle of. the like. everything that I that it turned out. that I needed to know about this crazy. business I learned in the middle of the. night on the QVC cable shopping channel.

over a 3-year period trying to make. sense sh so 3 hours at a time usually. over the course of 24 hours so call it. so you would be on three hours at a time. would you come back again or would you. only do three hours I do three hours and. I go home and I mean have you done. overnights before no so I guarantee you. there are a lot of people listening who. have worked an overnight shift in their. trade in their vocation it it changes.

you just as surely as Doris the cat. lady's brain was scrambled by the gandi. ey and and and the toxo it it does. something your circadian rhythm yeah. it's not just that it is that but it's. it's something Primal even more Primal. than that it just messes with you and it. it it forces you for me it like changed. colors it it changed taste it changed. yeah cuz I I had never I mean I was.

upside down after I talked about a. pencil for8 minutes I was on the air 48. hours later at 3: in the. morning trying to make sense of the. health Team infrared pain reliever and. the amcore negative ion generator like. what the hell like and did they give you. a rundown of what these products were at. all it was up to you if you came in a. couple hours early and you took the time. to to look through like there was a. table like this with all of the stuff on.

it that you were going to be selling and. you could take the time to prepare but. there was no Google back then it's not. like you could just watch a YouTube. video that would explain what this thing. did no what you got was a blue card. usually from the manufacturer that said. a couple of sentences about what the. thing was you had an item number you had. the price the retail price the QVC price. and maybe some easy payment terms all. all the stuff right but it was just a. blue card and then you would kind of go.

off and think about how you would make. sense out of this skull uh and where it. came from and why it's interesting and. you it's feature benefit selling you. know and if you understand that you can. talk about anything for as long as you. need to you know you never talk about a. feature without talking about its. benefit and so that's kind of how that. world worked so you don't say it's a. pencil for 99 cents you say it's a it's. a yellow number two.

pencil um with an eraser that is of the. exact proportion necessary to last for. the life of the pencil so when this. thing is down to a nub you'll still have. enough eraser left it's really a. monument to efficiency and Ingenuity and. it's not just yellow it's yellow because. you're a busy professional and when you. need a pencil Joe and you open up your. drawer you don't have time to root. around for some vaguely beige colored. writing Implement you want that can. yellow to pop and you can pick it up.

right and it's not it's a number two. pencil it's not three with that thin. wispy line that you can't read or or. that thick disappointing skid mark of a. number one right so you just like train. yourself to fill dead air with nonsense. while you're [ __ ] up your Cadian. Rhythm yeah what while you're wondering. like when your next meal is and who. you're going to have it with and you. wind up making friends and essentially.

hanging with with other people who live. in that same weird like Shadowland yeah. Shadowland that's a good way to put it I. have kind of an experience with. overnight but it's not the same uh I. delivered newspapers and so uh at least. one day a week on Sunday I would. basically show up Saturday night at 3:00. in the morning right cuz you would I. would deliver Sunday papers and the. Sunday papers were it was a a huge under. you flip the top flip oh I forgot to.

flip the top flip the top and then hit. the button there you go hit it there you. go um and so I was all [ __ ] up from. that I would get up every day at 5:00 in. the. morning uh normally to deliver papers. cuz I had a large route yeah it was my. way to make money without having to do a. job where I had to listen to anybody. it's also a perfect example of a kind of. job where you always know how you're. doing while you're doing it like lots. and lots of little visual undeniable.

cues right you got a your bags or your. baskets full of paper or your car or. whatever you were doing was in a car. you're tossing them out one at a time y. you know you're making progress you know. the progress you're making as you make. it right you know it's you know you only. have 120 houses to go that's right and. then it's 110 and then it's like go to. Dunkin Donuts get yourself a nice donut. at a coffee reward yourself day is.

over yeah my day would be done workwise. by you know 8:00 a.m. 9:00 a.m. on a. Sunday 9 9 was rough yeah occasionally. they would make enormous Sunday papers. they have like and that' be a real. problem because you'd have to make. multiple trips then I bought a van so I. had a big cargo van and I drove that. around to deliver newspapers for a while. that made it a lot easier because I. could stack 350 Sunday papers in the. back of that van but see you remember. and you knew 350 that's an interesting.

number that's I had bigger routes but. 350 was manageable how old how old were. you I started when I was just driving so. I was in high school still so I think I. started delivering papers when I was 17. or 18 whatever legal age they allow you. to do it so it was probably 17 or 18 I. started driving and I drove till I was. 22. two I just started doing stand-up comedy.

I I drove all throughout my competitive. martial arts career I drove in the. morning it was good because it gave me. discipline because I had to do it seven. days a week 365 days a year you did not. take any days off it didn't matter if it. snowed or rained or [ __ ] frozen rain. on the streets black ice didn't matter. you got to deliver newspapers and if it. if they did delay it you would just it. would delay your delivery of the paper. so you'd have to call the depot you know. hey are we delivering yet yet cuz they. didn't want to be responsible if it was. a blizzard for people dying and get.

lawsuits so they they didn't make you. deliver papers if it was unbelievably. bad out but for the most part you drove. every day so you had a you had a sense. of consequence to yes like you you. discipline consequence didn't deliver. the papers you didn't get paid it was. very simple it was a very simple job you. would show I don't even remember how. they trained us I think maybe they. trained us for like one day you were. taught how to fold the paper one two. stuff it in the bag yet had plastic bags.

were great cuz you could chuck them out. the window and it never damaged the. paper rubber bands were a real pain in. the ass CU you could hit a corner on the. concrete it would rip the corner of the. paper and then the customer would. complain because they're trying to read. about what's going on in Syria and then. there's this [ __ ] broken piece of. paper I delivered the New York Times. only because it was cool like I. delivered the Boston Globe because that. was the biggest distribution like I. could get the biggest route and then the. Boston Herald cuz I wanted more papers. to deliver so I would do two papers and. then New York Times but New York Times.

is a pain in the ass cuz it would be. like one every 10 blocks you'd have an. enormous route if you had 150 New York. Times that's an all day Excursion did. you start to equate the type of home you. were delivering the type of paper too oh. yes the New York Times people took. themselves very seriously they were very. serious people they would ask me what. I'm doing with my life I remember this. lady I was uh I was taking courses at. Boston University just so people.

wouldn't think I was a loser that was. literally the only reason why I was. going to college and uh you know she's. asking me I what are you what are you. gonna what are you planning on doing. with your career I'm like I have no idea. like and she didn't like it she didn't. like that I had no. idea yeah it makes people uncomfortable. she liked me but she didn't like that I. had no idea she was like very motherly. to me I guess it's funny we had the uh. the The Baltimore Sun which was the. paper of record and then we had the news. American which was sort of like the up. start and I never thought too much about. the difference between the two uh until.

summertime and crabs like maryn blue. crabs are a big thing they're big thing. in my family big thing where I grew up. and everybody who eats crabs in the. summer eat them outside on a picnic. table and you lay the newspaper out but. which one Joe oh which one it matters I. I don't know why it does so is it. disrespectful to use the paper of note. no no better no no it's it's I think. it's a mark of respect it's like oh.

we're having crabs get the news American. oh that's so silly get get the news. americ because you know it's all spread. out in front of you and you got the crab. guts and the Old Bay and the Jo number. two and the National Bohemian beer and. maybe you can glance down and get get. informed as you isn't it interesting. that there are newspapers like that. right like there's the New York Post you. want a fun headline you know you want. all the crazy [ __ ] like what happened. who got pregn PRN you know what's going. on with this what's going on with that.

and then you have the New York Times. where you know it's important to put. tampons in the boys room it's like have. youever what is happening have you ever. walked through the the offices of the. post no any chance oh my dude it's. amazing it's amazing I had a u old. girlfriend whose sister worked there. worked for um page six oh boy yeah. that's the fun one yeah so much fun so. that's like all the gossip and the. craziness and this person's getting.

arrested and right right drunk driving. and Bookers and they have a hallway it's. like this place in the sense there's so. much on the walls but it's all front. pages and it's the best headlines ah so. it's the best ones they've ever come up. with the best ones ever starting with. the classic um headless body found in. topless bar which is still tough to beat. that's great but so many of them I'd. love the post I've love the post I love. the uh just the fun nature of the news.

that was like the working person's. newspaper this is the point I was trying. to make about the comedian who. entertains himself first and the schmuck. on QVC who tries to keep himself awake. right before he sells the thing that's. how I felt reading the post it was like. these guys somehow I'm imagining a me. they're laughing They're laughing. they're cigars and they're all in on the. joke. like yeah we're going to report the news.

but you know it's a lot of sharp elbows. out there and it's a very competitive. world so what can we do to maybe get the. stick a little you know out of our asses. just a little bit you know how can we be. different that's what fascinates me yeah. you know how could whether you're. publishing a paper or eating a blue crab. right you know or writing a book or a. song you know how can you how can you in. relative terms. distinguish yourself not from these. other worlds and other categories but.

from their from your friends from that's. the that's the trick man yeah that is. the trick and then there's people that. want to be that person that is taken. seriously that's reading the New York. Times you want to be that person with. their legs crossed reading the New York. Times like very serious very serious. people very very smart people keep up to. date yeah I said to uh Ashton you're. very excellent driver who brought me. here uh I said uh you know it's been fun.

um watching Joe do this thing over the. last five or six years and then I kind. of stopped myself in the middle and I. said actually no I take it back what's. been fun is watching uh watching the. world catch up to it like watching the. headlines catch up to you or. whoever you really haven't changed and. man it's so. interesting to to watch people realize.

oh we're we're going to do it this way. now you know we're going to do it this. way now and and and that's been whether. it's comedy or whether it's music you. know it's when culture changes it feels. like there's some instigator some Jagged. Little Pill who's pushing it forward and. I guess maybe that's that's true but I. also think there's this this larger Hive. mentality in the audience and they start. to realize oh there's a there's another.

way to deliver a paper there's another. way to do a thing and it feels new but. it's it's probably what you've been. doing for the last 12 years yeah it's. definitely the same way I've always done. it it's just having conversations with. people I like talking to people it's fun. yeah but you make I enjoy it good I'm. I'm a curious person and I like talking. to people that's it's real simple yeah. but it's just cuz it's simple right you. make it sound like a parenthetical oh.

it's just a conversation yeah that's. only just the hardest thing there is to. do but it's not really it's not then why. don't more people do it because they. don't enjoy it they don't enjoy it like. I enjoy it like some people genuinely. don't like talking to people you know. why because they're interested in. themselves you have to be interested in. other people I think we're all connected. I really firmly believe this in a non-. hippie way I think it's like a scienti. ific reality I mean if I think if we. could figure out a way to study it we.

would recognize that we we're. psychically all connected in some. strange way and I I am curious as to how. someone from with a a different biology. uh different life experiences different. geographic location in which they were. raised like how are they navigating the. world and why are they interested in. Opera like why what is it why what got. you to be a beekeeper why why are you so. fascinated with painting what what what.

made you start writing music like I'm. interested yeah I like talking to people. so for me it is easy it really is it's. just talking to people like I would talk. to people like you and I could have the. same exact conversation if we were. having dinner somewhere for sure same. conversation yeah but again it makes. perfect sense and it's not that it's. difficult it's just that very few people. do it and if your explanation is because. very few people genuinely enjoy.

it I can't disprove it you're probably. right I think that's what it is I just. got lucky I think I just got lucky and I. found a job that I would be doing anyway. well here's what I don't understand and. maybe this is not even relevant but we. did 350 Dirty Jobs probably 60 some of. this thing called somebody's got to do. it I don't even know returning the favor. I think we did 100 episodes of that. I don't even I couldn't tell you how. many things I've narrated hundreds if.

there's a wilderbeast trying to get. across the vast reaches of the baron SAR. and Getty right right like if I could. remember every episode of How the. Universe Works 10 years of this stuff if. if if I could remember half of what I. narrated um that would be something um I. can remember a chunk but my sense is. that like I can't even remember the last. 20 guests I had on my podcast and and. the reason isn't because I'm not curious.

and it's not because I'm not because I. lack the requisite intelligence to. remember for me it's just it's so much. there's been no time to think about what. I'm going to do next and even less time. to think about what I just did right so. you just talk to Josh Brolin MH and then. you talk to the musician guy St yeah. right Scott yeah Scott Storch and then. before that our friend Evan was in right. so like I have a better it's easier for.

me to remember what you've done in the. last two months than it is for me and. that freaks me out and I wonder if. sometimes you get over your skis to the. point where you where you've started to. forget what you've done yourself oh yeah. there's no way to keep it all um uh I. have a bucket that's. overflowing with information it's. overflowing my my hard drive is not. capable of retaining all of it it's not.

possible I retain a lot though a lot. more than I ever would know I got an. unexpected education doing this show for. sure like I never anticipated it is it. conscious like can you. choose to be interested in a thing. enough to know that you're not going to. forget it or does the interest just kind. of Bubble Up and certain things stick to. you the interest bubbles up and they. stick yeah.

totally yeah like my my daughter asked. me a question the other day I don't even. remember what the question about but. it's a very technical thing and I said. no that's not exactly it it seems like. that but this is the reason why and they. figured this out because of this and I. started rattling off and she's like how. the [ __ ] do you know this she was. laughing and I was like I don't know. everything I forget things I forget my. own birthday but I do. remember things that are fascinating I. remember most things that are. fascinating to me I have a unusual. recall but I've always had an unusual.

recall it's like I think it's a genetic. thing yeah yeah I think it let me get. really good at things too CU I can. remember like technical like it was. really good for martial arts because I. can remember technical details like. really like like I don't forget things. see you to me are the are the deeper end. of the pool I'm more the the shallow end. not I don't mean the for that to sound. comparative so much but like with. martial arts I'm interested in martial.

arts I'm interested in Ultimate Fighting. I narrated The Ultimate Fighter right I. did yeah with 10 seasons of it but like. that's sort of the extent like I I don't. I don't go very deep I've seen a couple. but I but it's like well there's a the. big giant difference between um being uh. a former competitor and and also like. dedicated Decades of my life to martial. arts it's not as simp le as like I go. and I do commentary like I started doing.

martial arts when I was 15 and it. changed my life it it gave me discipline. and a will to overcome uncomfort. discomfort and to push myself and to. overcome fears and to do something. that's very scary and to compete and. that was like it formulated me as a. teenager so I started competing. competitively like serious [ __ ] when I. was like 15 years old and so we were. traveling all over the country and so my. social life from like 15 to 21 was. completely [ __ ] it was like [ __ ].

as in slowed down like the the real term. and it was mostly just training and. competing that's all I did and when the. downtime I was tired so I would just. sleep a lot I was like eating sleeping. working and competing and then I started. teaching so then that I was making my. living off of teaching but not enough. money so I was still delivering. newspapers so I delivered newspapers in. the morning and then I would teach teach. and I was teaching at Boston University. I was teaching I had my own school by.

the time I was 20 Taekwondo yeah so this. is my point you take a deep dive when. you get interested in a thing yeah you. go into the thing comedy wasn't a hobby. it became I think as important becomes. everything it becomes everything almost. nothing I do becomes everything nothing. almost nothing but what are the things. what becomes everything I'm not sure yet. let me think about it is there one thing. that if you have like free time you.

super look forward to. doing like you have a hobby do you play. golf no nothing I don't have hobbies and. I don't collect things no no Hobbies I. don't collect things I don't I I I own. very little I never have I wish I had a. hundred lives to live simultaneously I. would have I would do a hundred. different things this is the difference. you're insatiable in that way you you. you you get a thing and you're gonna can. nail it to the wall man you're gonna. nail my late great friend Anthony. Bourdain his uh headline uh his bio on.

Twitter it said Enthusiast and I really. wish that I'd come up with that because. that's what I am I'm an Enthusiast I. would I wouldn't say it now because I'd. rip him off and also now my bio says. Dragon believer cuz congratulations on. that the ladies they said I believe in. dragons she triple checked she triple. checked Mike got to be true but I'm an. Enthusiast that's what what I am I am a. person who uh is very fortunate and that.

I have a love of a lot of things well. you and Tony were similar obviously in. that way um he took big bites he took. big swings we became good friends when. he really got into Jiu-Jitsu yeah cuz I. kind of got him into it and then his. wife really got him into it but he. started going to the UFC uh his wife was. training in Jiu-Jitsu and she got really. into it she was really loving it and. then she was like let's go to the UFC. he's like this is [ __ ] great and then. you know he came to one of my comedy. shows we became friends started going.

going to dinner by the way with Anthony. Bourdain is the coolest [ __ ] thing in. the world because you go to dinner with. him and all the chefs freak out and so. they just want to feed you you know they. just want to like don't touch the menu. we got you and then come over and bring. food and you know I wrote uh a eulogy. for him that crashed my website oh wow. um it's really funny I only I met him. twice and uh each time it was fairly. brief but there was a time when he was.

doing No. Reservations Dirty Jobs was early on I. bet you Fear Factor was still in. production then too yeah Fear Factor was. no maybe it was probably at the Fear. Factor stopped in 2007 and No. Reservations I think was around that. time yeah he was on in six mhm for sure. Dirty Jobs went on in '. 03 yeah and then the CNN show which was. I think like CNN's highlight of their. time and I think he really changed that.

Network because all of the sudden that. network was this [ __ ] cool show where. this guy had this brilliant narration. and he had this. wonderlust but but Al also with this. like real fascination with people and. cultures and just really loved it he. just loved going to Vietnam he loved. going wherever he could go he loved to. eat their street food he loved to talk. to them he really wanted to know what.

these people were all about you know. I've never with the PO this will sound. vain glorious and I don't mean it to but. with the possible exception of of me on. Discovery in. 2010 narrating half their shows and. hosting Dirty Jobs which was a thing you. know I felt really triangulated then but. then when I met Tony and I had a show on. CNN at the same time actually it was a. companion show what was your show it was.

called somebody's got to do it oh that's. right that's right it followed Dirty. Jobs and Jeff zooker wanted something. with Tony so he was like well let's kind. of do a version of this and I said yeah. okay but all the trouble in the world. man every crisis whether it's Haiti or. whether it's a riot you know the show. got preempted constantly they didn't. preempt Tony but they preempted me a lot. and I was uh commiserating with Tony. about this once and and that's when we.

had the conversation where I said look I. just got to tell you man I I have never. in my life seen anybody doing the right. show for them at the right time on the. right Network for them yeah I've never. seen that like that before I mean and. and never mind the award yeah PE it was. the peab bodies that got me actually I. don't who cares about the Emmys they're. easy but gez he was just one PE body. award after the next yeah and it wasn't.

a Hu the audience wasn't as big as. people think but they were engaged well. that's what's important I mean the. audience if they're really there for you. rather than if they're just flipping. channels you know because there's a lot. of shows that just get people that are. flipping channels sure we used to when I. was on news radio everybody wanted the. shot the spot after Seinfeld cuz there. was sein there was Seinfeld and friends. were on the same night and was just this. murderous Thursday night lineup it was. an unbelievable lineup and if you got.

lucky you were sex in the city or the. single guy and what Paul Sims the. producer of uh news radio would call a. [ __ ] sandwich because you had your. brilliant show and then your terrible. show and then another brilliant show and. then another terrible show but if you. got in those time spots oh boy you got a. good spot because people are going to. just keep tuning in they didn't tune in. for news radio news radio wasn't really. successful after it was off the air you. were in the slipstream yeah you you you. were in the orbit we weren't owned by. NBC so it was a different production. company it was brilin gray so they.

didn't have a vested interest in us. being successful. so the the writers would show up my. friend Lou would wear a T-shirt and he. would write the number that we were when. we would do the table reads and one day. it was 88 and I was like for real he's. like yeah I was like oh. no with a bullet we thought we were. going to get canceled literally every. year except the year we got canceled. the year we got canceled I was shocked. because that was like the year after.

Phil died and then John Lovitz took his. place for a season and then they cancel. it after that and like in the perfect. thing for our show we never even hit the. 100 episodes for syndication they had a. sell it at like 98 episodes that was. like our show it's like we were always. like barely hanging on you know it was. just we it was a funny show it was a. really good show with talented people. love that show the people I was super. lucky to work on and it ruined me. because I could never work got another. show after that what what did you learn. what was the. big lesson from news radio if there was.

one for you well it was just Fortune the. the lesson is that you could just be. fortunate you know cuz I was not a. trained actor at all I uh did a a set on. MTV half hour Comedy Hour they had this. uh comedy show I did a set and then MTV. offered me a development deal and then. my manager said this is terrible money. money they're going to lock you up for. like 3 years for like $500 or it was. like crazy ridiculous bad money uh he.

said I'm going to take your tape and. tell all these other production. companies that MTV wants to sign a deal. with you and it'll start a bidding war. and and he was brilliant and he did it. and that's exactly what happened and the. next thing you know uh I couldn't answer. my phone cuz my phone was just calling. agents and people would just call me. yeah like some guy called me from. Universal I was like what like what the. [ __ ] is going this shitty apartment on. my way out the door to play pool and. this guy is telling me he wants me to. get on a flight that night we have a. flight at 10 p.m. leaving out of.

LaGuardia I was like what are you. talking about and so then I called my. manager this guy just [ __ ] called me. from me he goes don't answer your phone. he's like go play pool get out of here. I'll I'll take care of it next thing you. know I was in Hollywood it was like that. quick and I was on a show called hard. ball it went six episodes and the only. reason why I stayed in California I. wanted to go back to New York I hated it. I hated actors I just couldn't deal with. being around these weirdos they were. these weird phony people would say good. to see you because they couldn't. remember if they met you so instead of.

saying nice to meet you and [ __ ] up. and go I'm sorry I met you I'm sorry I. [ __ ] up they didn't want to be real so. they everyone said good to see you. everyone was good and it was super uninc. I was like this is so weird yeah it was. just super uncomfortable experience and. it was the worst experience on a show. because the people that ran the show. Jeff Martin and Kevin Curran super funny. talented guys who'd worked on Married. with Children in The Simpsons brilliant. but the studio didn't think that they. were good enough to run a show so they. brought in this hack and this guy comes. in and just butchers all the the scripts.

it was horrible so that gets cancelled. the only reason why I stayed is cuz I. had a lease so I I got a nice apartment. I'm like the first apartment I ever had. I was like I thought I was going to be. on TV forever like this is going to be. easy and now [ __ ] I got to get out of. here I was I wanted to go back to New. York I thought about breaking my lease. but then um NBC contacted me and they. said we have the show uh it's called. news radio and we're recasting one of. the one of the roles do you want to come. in so I came in an audition for it the. next thing you know I'm working with. Phil Hartman it was bizarre no.

aspirations whatsoever to be an actor. never wanted to be on TV and then I'm. working with Andy Dick and Phil Hartman. and Mora TIY and Candy Alexander Vicky. Lewis and Dave Foley like this is crazy. from the kids from Second City gez yeah. he was brilliant Dave Foley by the way. was the secret producer of news radio. because he would they would give him. full autonomy so he' completely rewrite. scenes like on the spot come up with. punch lines for everybody we all did. that for everybody like we would all. come up like maybe you should say this. maybe you should say that it was like.

super collaborative so just Fortune. complete utter Good Fortune cuz I had. friends that were on terrible sitcoms. and they were living in hell and we'd. hang out at the comedy store and you. know they were living in hell and I was. like look I'm on a show that nobody. watches but it's fun as [ __ ] and I can't. believe I'm on TV this is nuts yeah. you're in on the joke yeah it was fun it. was really fun but it was just fortunate. I could have easily. never never done any of those things.

easily I thought for years that really a. sitcom had to be the best gig in the. world to to have to do a basically to do. a play every week if it's a good sitcom. if it's a good sit but if it's a bad. sitcom it's hell sure those guys who do. a lot of coke and buy nice cars those. are all they're on bad shows they just. want to give themselves something to. reward themselves for this [ __ ] slave. not I wouldn't say slave work I should. say like you're a slave to money it's.

not you're you're compromising who you. are for money you don't really want to. do that show but you're on it and it. sucks and you have to repeat these. terrible lines that's what I'm getting. at see the it's the for me it came down. to that I finally got a chance to do one. um I played Tim Allen's younger brother. on Last Man Standing for a turn I never. saw that show that was a weird one right. cuz they got mad at him because he was. Ring yeah yeah that's so crazy didn't.

they cancel it was their number one show. they canceled then Fox picked it up. that's so nuts they cancelled it because. they didn't like his politics yeah wow. dude that mean that's that basically. happened to Dirty Jobs too really oh. yeah yeah it's it's mindboggling but but. the point was I finally got a chance to. I don't want to gloss over that I want. to come back to that I want to hear that. all right yeah yeah now that's a great. one you'll you'll love this but but to. Tim is great by the way and we became. friends and and chemistry on camera.

everybody loved it and when it was over. I was like well you know do an honest. inventory Mike like what what did you. love what what didn't you love and. really the only thing I loved was was. seeing people who loved each other and. being welcomed into their little world. that's it yeah everything like the idea. that somebody else is writing lines for. me I know that sounds. impossibly arrogant but I was so used to.

nobody writes for me dirty jobs is truly. unscripted everything I ever did there. were never any lines and I so that's an. alien experience for you yeah I mean I'd. done plenty of plays as a kid and stuff. but that's different you know that's a. that's different the once you're in. Hollywood and once you're sort of in the. machine it it still lingers I mean. that's the whole reason I crashed the. audition for the Opera I was just trying. to find a s at some point somewhere and. then when I when I finally got it you.

know I realized just how lucky I'd been. prior to that and how here you want this. and and. how crap man you know a thing can live. in your mind so much bigger than it is. in in reality and so while I love doing. it for that week I said to my business. partner over it that this thing that I. used to think of as the single most. efficient way to make a living was so. wildly inefficient are you it takes four. days to rehearse for a half hour thing.

you got to be kidding me I could do five. one hour shows right in the same period. of time yeah yeah yeah yeah completely. different experience in that way it's a. collaborative fun time and you do become. like a little bit of a strange family. you know we all hung out together and. drunk together and that's important you. know oh yeah yeah it is important it's. it was like we you know it was a lot of. fun man you know and meeting people like. step root who you know went on to do a.

million different things brilliant. brilliant guy you get to see people that. are like really good at like he was a. character he was the only one of us that. wasn't really himself like he was this. one guy who was like a super sweet guy. when you meet him in real life and then. he was Jimmy James my stapler yeah he. becomes did you see what was that one. Cohen Brothers had some Netflix thing a. wild west Netflix thing he played on. that he was [ __ ] genius wasn't he an. O Brother did yeah he was in I think he. was in no brother he's been in. everything he's in a million different. things but just being with these people.

that you know like I said I had no. aspirations to act I I just want I was. just a comic I just wanted to make a. living doing comedy and then somebody. offered me more money than I made in a. year for a week and I was like this is. crazy and then all a sudden I'm on a. show it's was like just Fortune I I. auditioned for two shows ever and I got. both of them those are the only two. shows I ever auditioned for what was the. other one Hardball the the first one. that I went for that was terrible yeah. that was the baseball show that got. canceled and then I auditioned for news.

radio so it was it was nuts it was just. I was just stepping in [ __ ] every step. of the way didn't make any sense so I. never had an agent except for a very. brief period when I did and uh it was. you know Shawn Perry over at Endeavor. you guys ever crossed paths I know he is. his uh his former assistant turned out. to be his wife later uh how's that work. Nicole Taylor that's man they're they're. living great they live up in the hills. somewhere he I mean how's it how's it. work with your former assistant how work.

that that that's none of my business but. that's a dangerous undertaking she. called me one day and I was in my in my. full-on freelance world I hadn't had a. job since since QVC so this is like 1999. and she says I just want to I just want. to send you out for for something cuz I. know you're going to book it and I said. well actually yeah I could use a gig so. she sends me out uh in the same week she. says you should read for uh Craig pigan. over at uh Pilgrim Films he's doing. something called worst case scenario and.

he's looking for a host and so I. auditioned for that and then later that. week uh she says this guy from uh. Nashville Michael Orin was his name who. I had worked with years earlier not. Nashville. Memphis uh he was hosting or uh the EP. on that evening magazine thing that I. mentioned and he's ready to hire you. based off your blooper tape and never. had a tape either I just my whole. audition reel in those days was a.

compilation of every moment that went. off the rails at QVC all the things that. led to my eventual firings as well as. the cat sack and all the other crap. that's it was I I dare you to hire me I. got hired for both jobs that week both. jobs and so suddenly I'm working for TBS. hosting worst case scenario which lived. up to its name and then I'm up in San. Francisco hosting even Magazine and. there was no conflict of interest there. like you you totally negotiated both of.

them at the same time wow that's cool. yeah and then um Nicole switched. agencies and I and I and I never really. had an agent you know prior to that. that's fortunate or since super. fortunate financially it's great you. know what's fortunate man remember okay. so my mother calls me I'm at evening. magazine sitting in my cubicle my dad's. my granddad's 90 years old remember this. I didn't I didn't close the loop on this. uh but that's to answer your first.

question what happened was my mom called. me and said your grandfather's going to. be 90. tomorrow and before he dies wouldn't it. be great if he could turn on the TV and. see you doing something that looked like. work whoa yeah my mother's a Savage. Jesus she just finished her fourth book. by the way wow yeah she's written three. bests sellers after 80 that's incredible. she's out of control that's incredible. so she was like she wanted you to do.

something impressive my mother wrote. every day for 60 years wow no agent no. got published in like the news americ. and the Baltimore Sun you know local. stuff some horse magazines we were horse. people kind of growing up and uh and her. her dream was to write she finally got a. book deal when she was 80 went to a uh. number four bestseller wow and. everything she's written so far so. that's recently back in whatever it was. 2001 she was just a pain in my ass and.

she called me to say you know wouldn't. it be great if your granddad this guy. whose Shadow I grew up in you know could. see you doing something cuz like my pop. had he'd seen the Opera he'd seen QVC. he'd seen every godforsaken infomercial. he'd seen you know di done a lot of. things probably 200 jobs in the whole. freelance world and so I was 40 two and. I took my cameraman from evening. magazine into the sewer of San Francisco.

the next day to host the show from a. sewer and what happened in the sewer. joke was I mean it Chang it's I wrote a. book about it it changed my whole life. um the roaches are the size of your. thumbs there millions of them and they. crawl all over you the [ __ ] comes at you. in a chocolate tide of unending. disappointment and and it's filled not. just with all the stuff that comes out. of your body it's filled with stuff that. comes out of your medicine cabinet.

Plastic Products and rubber Pro condoms. stuck to your rubber suit you know it's. unspeakably vile you can barely. breathe and what and what happened to me. down there is I uh I completely failed. to like host the show all the standups. went wrong laterals exploded we were all. getting hit in the head with it's like a. shooting gallery there was a rat the.

size of a loaf of bread that crawled up. my I lost my footing fell into I was I. was. baptized I was baptized in a river of. crap and at the. end my cameraman threw up at one. point an enormous puke and I'm I'm. squatting in the filth you know looking. at the camera trying to open the show. and when you see when you see your.

cameraman vomit float past. you as as you're trying to articulate a. thought oh my God and meanwhile the guy. who was like my minder was an actual. sewer inspector and he's in the. background trying to do his job which is. to hammer out the old bricks that are. rotting and replace them with new ones. now it's it's 105 degrees it's is it's. the seventh level of hell it's clear I.

can't do my job so I I go over to this. guy his name was Jean Cruz and I say hey. um what are you doing he's like I'm. putting bricks in I said you need a hand. so I start mixing the mortar and we. start talking just like people you know. not like a hosty thing but like what. what you were saying just what would. happen if you had an honest conversation. totally unscripted with a guy who didn't. really know he was going to be on camera. but what if you film it and put it on TV.

anyway what would. happen well what happened a week later. when this thing finally aired was um I. was. fired cuz people sitting down to hear. their heart- tugging story of the. three-legged dog up in Marin overcoming. can9 kidney failure and it's me a. smartass 42-year-old crawling through a. river of crap I mean they're they're. trying to eat their meatloaf you know it. it was it was the wrong segment for that. for that show.

but talk about fortunate the male that. came in as a. result some people said it was funny and. they liked it some people were repulsed. but but the the letters that changed my. life were the ones that said you think. that was. dirty oh wa do you see what my brother. does what do you see my cousin does my. mom my sister my uncle right and I'm. like oh my God there's I mean if if the. Bay Area is any kind of a a microcosm.

for the country and I'm not saying it is. but from a TV standpoint I was like this. is new no I I've never seen feedback. like this C I've never seen curiosity. among the viewership like this and so. that's that's where the idea came from. ah I was like what what if the viewer. programs the show a and what if B the.

host of the show is the person that I. meet who welcomes me into their [ __ ]. hole or wherever they work and what if. what if I'm not a host after all after. 20 years of impersonating a. host what if I'm a guest or an. apprentice or a or an avatar or a cipher. right like like what if I just think. about s differently than this guy who. hits the mark and looks at the camera. and tells you the cat sack is 29 I mean.

right right right like what if you just. let all that. go and uh you know I I don't know that I. would have thought of it like that at at. 20 at 22 certainly not not even at 32. but at 42 I was entering a more. introspective kind of. phase and so I I was really just curious. to see what would happen if I. if I thought of myself as something. different well if we think about the. history of just media it's it's very.

recent right you have radio which is. like when when did people start. listening to radio was the. 1800s okay and then you have television. that kicks on in the 50s and everyone's. a presenter ladies and Gentlemen The. Beatles right everyone's Ed Sullivan. everyone's Jack car jack par like. there's these type of people that do. this job it's like you ever you go to a.

you ever do a morning radio show oh yeah. sure you have morning DJ voice hey 5. o'clock on the hour let's go with Bon. Joy there's a voice that they have a. strip club DJ similar there's a voice. Anchor Man anchor man but now yes the. news especially local news they have a. very specific thing that they're doing. it's Cadence yeah well it's fake it's. not a person it's no people act like. that if you had a guy like that over. your house for dinner You' be like what. the [ __ ] is wrong with Bob Bob's a. psycho the guy's got people buried in.

his [ __ ] basement who talks like that. right and so I think the internet opened. up a lot of room for unprofessional. people to thrive that's me so like I'm I. can't do theost but that's what it is. you're not unprofessional but it's like. I mean in that regard like I'm not so I. wasn't trying to do something that had. already existed I was just doing like I.

was doing like a guest on Opie and. Anthony show that's what it was like. like when you're a guest on Opie and. Anthony that's how you talk everybody. would just hang out and talk that's a. fun show it was anyway that opened my. eyes up to podcasting and then you know. Anthony kumia had his own show that he. did in his basement live at the compound. where he sing karaoke holding a machine. gun that [ __ ] maniac and then um the. other big one was uh doing the Tom Green. Show cuz Tom Green had his own sort of. Internet talk show that he did out of.

his house sure I remember that yeah that. was huge so that also helped too and I. actually was in negotiation with the. people that were doing his show and I. was thinking about doing something my. own but then I was like I can't work. with anybody I I got to do this on my. own quick sidebar I don't know if this. is of interest and Jamie forgive me. because I I don't know if I'm supposed. to ask you to do things but I sold the. first karaoke machine ever in this. country yeah on QVC yeah oh let's see. that it's it's out there it's out I'm. not proud of it you should be proud of. that that's a statistic it was like.

12:15 in the morning you know and they. they sent me one of these things to my. apartment and I'm like what what is this. is this even like look they're. everywhere now obviously we we we've. gone through the kind of crazy though. that you're like the Godfather of. karaoke well I'm among them let me see. so what year is this what are we talking. look at you 91 this is 9192 wow. [Music]. [Laughter].

99955 yeah yeah it's hard to see it's so. blurry isn't it interesting like how bad. television looked back then in. comparison to now like just a re. resolution yeah but you know what. there's something um there's something. more trustworthy about rudimentary. production value right you can't like. yeah I was talking to your guy Bruce. about this earlier um he was saying how. much he loves uh like a Antique Road.

Show and This Old House you know and I. said why I Still Love This Old House I. still I I was on This Old House were you. yeah man they invited me on they wanted. to raise money uh for the to. reinvigorate the trades they had a very. similar cause as as I do today and um. and they got all these advertisers lined. up and then and then the guy in charge. said well Mike's doing the same basic.

thing let's call him and maybe we should. just give him the money and let his. foundation give it away it'll be simpler. than starting a new thing and they. called and I said yeah I'll do that sure. but I'd like to be on your show and they. like that'd be great so they invited me. on and it was awesome but my point is. part of the charm of those. shows is the almost remedial simplicity. of the production it's it's old it's. like there's an entrance there's an exit.

there what's the last time you saw it. dissolve right right like all that stuff. and and I used to make fun of it I used. to make fun of QVC I still do but but in. reality man that there was something. strangely comforting about that kind of. production value and everything I. learned that turned out to be useful you. know I learned in the middle of the. night someoke Mach thing about something. that's overproduced that kind of. dissolves some of its authenticity. because there's too much thought put.

into each and Ed every shot everything. about there's too much coordination it's. almost like you lose a comfor like I'm I. might be entertained by it it might be. fascinating like like Keeping Up with. the Kardashians you ever notied like. they change scenes every 5 Seconds just. like keep you like yeah yeah keep you. tuned in there's something smart about. that because it does keep you engaged. but it doesn't feel as authentic as if. it was just like one person following. them around in real time with no edits.

at all just one camera on them here's. here's a thesis um at least in the world. of non-fiction this doesn't apply to. scripted uh but. production is by definition the enemy of. authenticity right it's the enemy of it. um you need it in order to have a. finished product but when you get in. your own way then you get in the. viewer's way right and one of the one of. the things that kept dir jobs on the air.

for 20 years early on I kind of realized. that and and I wasn't sure what to do. about it but I thought maybe maybe we. need to think of the show like a. documentary so we got a behind the. scenes camera that never stopped rolling. and so if my if my mic pack went out or. if a plane flew over or if somebody. screwed something up or if we had to. stop for whatever reason I always knew. there was a truth cam that's what I.

called it and I could always look to it. and I could say all right well what. happened here blah blah blah right and. so it was those moments where I think. the viewer realized oh oh he's not he's. not trying to sell me anything at least. not here you know he's letting us see. the sausage yeah and that was new in in. non-fiction you know that was a whole. new way to think about authenticity bake. ramas Swami was the only um the only.

candidate I invited onto my podcast. because he I read somewhere that he said. if he was nominated he vowed to never. use a. teleprompter to deliver a speech well he. can pull it off I whether you can pull. it off or not I just thought that was so. interesting and I and I wanted to talk. to him about that specific. and then it's funny a year later you. know I think I think the teleprompter is.

probably the best example of one forced. error after the next like when you when. you think about the anchor who just. wants to be believed the spokesman who. just wants to be seen as credible the. politician who just wants to be just. wants it just so it's like they they. want to be. authentic and yet they do the single. most inauthentic thing you can possibly. do which is pretend to not read a thing.

that everyone can see you're reading. right and so like the cognitive. dissonance is Rich you know and I just. think we've entered into this world. where like the the least persuasive. thing you can. do is say trust me or take it from me. you know people have just been burned so. much right that they're going to need we. need a truth cam we need it in The. Newsroom not just in a sewer I mean it.

worked there but we we need it. everywhere [ __ ] it we'll do it live Bill. O'Reilly of all people I'll do it live. that's the real bill yeah that's it. that's the real bill that's it yeah. that's what's interesting about um. social media and social media like it's. there's this giant resistance right now. to the idea that X is the the new source. of the world they're the mainstream it. is they're the mainstream it's it's the. new source of the world you and these.

people that want to cling to Authority. and say no you're not you're godamn it. you're not the [ __ ] you're not a. journalist you're not this you guys. [ __ ] us too many times and we don't. believe you anymore and so the only way. for us to find out what's real and. what's not real is someone posts it. online and then everybody looks at it. and then you get the Community notes and. that's way better than the New York. Times telling me that the Froot Loops in. Canada are exactly the same as the Froot.

Loops in America except for a bunch of. [ __ ] that's banned and that's the whole. point of the whole [ __ ] thing but. meanwhile they're factchecking RFK Jr so. now I don't trust you anymore either you. can't um so it's like that's what's. going on you can't gloss over the. community notes you can't that's it it's. it that that's the truth cam it's a. solution on Twitter it's the solution to. this thing that we're trying to figure. out how we know what's true and what's. not true you get a consensus there's. enough people that actually can read. scientific papers there's enough people.

that know the the field that's being. discussed or you're going to get out of. the hundreds of millions of people on X. you're going to get an expert who's. going to say this is why this is. incorrect and this is how you're. supposed to read it and then everybody. goes oh okay this is wrong and now you. know and if you can just do a little. research and go through that paper or go. through that thread you'll you'll if. you're on objective person you probably. get a good sense of who's right and. who's wrong it's a weird dichotomy. though right like skepticism like we.

have to be skeptical yes but part of the. reason we have to be as skeptical as we. are is because so much of the media has. abdicated on skepticism and they've. become something else you know something. else and so you know you can't you can't. really blame people for you know cons. considering what we used to dismiss as a. conspiracy. theory when the theories start to get.

borne out and when there's such a level. of eroded trust in in once's credible. institutions like well that's also the. whole reason for the disdain for. conspiracy theorists in the first place. is that no you're not an expert I'm the. expert and you're wrong but then when. they're wrong there's no repercussions. they never want to say you know we were. wrong about all this yeah we're sorry we. were wrong about masking we wrong about. social distancing we were wrong about. all of it buit where's the humility man. yeah no humility because because they're.

not humans and that's why you don't. believe them because you know they're. just people reading off [ __ ] off a. teleprompter that's it that's it that's. all it is and nobody wants that anymore. you don't have to have that anymore and. that's why X is emerged and substack and. all these different things as like the. place where people go to get actual. information and that's why they like. podcasts cuz it's just the three of us. in this room that's it the The Who. whoever is the numbers of people and. Carl Carl's out cold now but the numbers. of people that are listening it's like.

it's just this crazy number that are all. just listening to three people so. there's no producer there's no all that. [ __ ] that gets in the way of things is. been removed it's actually for people. when you think about it that way like if. the audience becomes its own amalgam I. think of it like that you know I I I. think the audience gets short drifted a. lot you know I thought of it last night. in your Club it's like the audience is I.

mean without the audience what are you. doing you know he just building. certainly at a club yeah at a club it's. everything it's everything but why is it. different well because you can't think. about it that way because the best way. to do it in my opinion the be for me the. best way I've found to do it is to never. think about the audience I all I'm. interested in I think about it in terms. of like if I'm bored they must be bored. like let me pick this up a little bit. let me move this around a little bit let. me figure out a way to you got to move a. conversation like sometimes I've talked. to like very old Scholars like very old.

and it's like sometimes like okay we got. to focus you here like we got to get you. on this like Trump a little bit in the. beginning when he was like telling me. the story with Lincoln's bedroom I was. at the bed was he was a long man he was. at T very tall very tall so I was like. okay we got to figure out a way to. what's it like to be the [ __ ]. president what is that feeling like how. crazy is it on the first day that's what. I really wanted to know so it's like you. got to kind of move people around but. that is for me like as an audience.

member I'm not thinking about the. audience because I feel like the best. way to do it is for me to actually 100%. be engaged and interested in what this. person's talking about but don't you. think that that's you you are the proxy. for the audience when you're at your. best yeah for sure in my view when I'm. listening to you when I like high five. virtually it's when you asked the. question I was. thinking and I I really tried to do that. in the sewer I really tried to do that.

on Dirty Jobs I really tried I think you. did I think that's why it resonated so. much with people well I hope so but no. for sure because you didn't ever seem. like a fake guy doing a thing you seem. like a fun guy like a regular guy who's. doing this thing where you're. interacting with people like what how do. you do this like what is this so yes. thanks but then all of a sudden I look. up and Donald Trump's in the sewer with. me oh [ __ ] and there's an election in a. week. oh the stakes around me right all of a.

sudden have changed so it's so. interesting that he was sitting right. where I'm sitting and you feel the need. to kind of put some sides on this thing. because you understand first and. foremost that as an audience member. right as somebody who's just listening. to this as a fly on the wall I'm getting. a little lost yeah yeah I'm a little. bored let's move it along right right so. I mean you can say that hey that's Joe. being a good host or that's Joe being.

super honest in a conversation where. he's starting to to drift a little bit. I'm I'm most certainly aware that people. are going to listen to it don't get me. wrong but I don't think like the. questions like maybe the audience would. want to know this I do do this one thing. even if I know that some I know how this. a thing works I will ask a person how a. thing works works so that the audience. can hear it from them rather than from. me I don't want to be Mr Smarty Pants I. don't have to be but that's one thing.

that I do where I'm aware that people. probably don't know what we're talking. about so let's could you explain where. this came from or why this because. sometimes people especially if they have. an area of expertise they just assume. that people know what they're talking. about when they're talking about. specific techniques or ways they do. things so that in that way I do think. about the audience but most of the time. that's just like I'm just doing my job. but mostly all trying to do is be 100%. locked in yeah just locked and I feel. like if I'm locked in and I'm just real.

honest and just try to like be really. curious and really just try to get the. most out of this person that's going to. be good for the. audience what was more. consequential him coming. on or her not coming on him coming on. why do you say that well because. realistically like okay my thought about. her coming on was I just I was going to. be very nice I was I want to have fun. with her I wanted to just be able to. talk to her and ask her qu I want to get.

a sense of her as a human being and if. it's policy talk that bothered them like. there was a few things they didn't want. to talk marijuana legalization they. initially didn't want to talk about. internet censorship and then they. changed their tune and then they wanted. to talk about internet censorship I was. great internet censorship is important. let's talk about it but whatever she. wanted to talk about [ __ ] riding. bikes I don't give a [ __ ] I don't give a. [ __ ] what she want to talk about want to. talk about cooking rock climbing I just. want to just get a sense of her as a. human being that's just as a human being.

what is it like like does it freak you. out when people get mad at you does it. freak you out when you [ __ ] up a a. sentence and you ramble and you know I. know what it's like you know when you. don't you know the people are listening. and you're like I got to [ __ ] bring. this home and I don't know how to and. you sort of repeat these key lines or. this maybe there some new word you. become enamored with you know you over. and over again when you realize you're. in the of a sentence with with no. obvious ending yes that's a that's QVC. in a nutshell okay that's what it is.

right and when the teleprompter breaks. that's when you get to know the person. right and so and so that's why I'm. asking I I don't I wonder you know I. mean I I listen to the interview and and. and I ask myself well is anybody going. to vote differently as a result I don't. think so are some people going to vote. who otherwise might not have voted Maybe. but for me when you started to talk very. casually about the fact that that the.

that her campaign had stipulations they. had I think there was a lot of people. that were she had made some a bunch of. blunders and there was a lot of concern. that she was going to make blunders here. this is what I was going to get to she. might have it might have been a mess. yeah I might have asked her about. immigration we might have had a. conversation about like what is the goal. like what why hasn't this been this. doesn't if we can you know launch. rockets and land them at the same time. as we can't control a border that seems.

not real that doesn't seem real one. seems way harder and that's happening. he's [ __ ] catching Rockets with robot. arms yeah okay if that's happening how. come this can't be fixed because this. didn't used to be like this so why is it. like this now why does the Red Cross. have these stations set up where they. giving people maps and instructions why. does China have these places in Mexico. where they only have Chinese menus. Chinese writing Chinese everything and. these people are coming from China. specifically to the spot and then making. it across the country like what's the.

purpose of this is anybody ever examined. what these people are up to why they're. doing this how is it so organized like. what is that about maybe that would have. been a disaster because that that's. something that I felt like if if she. didn't want to talk about the marijuana. and didn't want to talk about internet. censorship immigration's an interesting. one right it's very interesting cuz like. first of all I am Pro immigration I am. am the grandson of immigrants my. grandparents came over here during the. Depression uh if they didn't do it I. wouldn't be here the entire country.

other than the Native Americans are. immigrants that's all of us every is we. are a country of immigrants so we should. have some stipulations though about who. gets in and how you get in and where you. coming from and what do what is your. past like are you a murderer are you a. gangbanger have you been selling fenel. for the last 20 years like what you. doing with your life Bob inquiring minds. want to know we want to know and I think. that's reasonable do you see a. difference.

between an immigrant and a. settler well it all is the timeline. right it's a timeline thing yeah not. only that you're an Invader like if. you're one of those people that comes. over in 1820 and you're making your way. across the Plains and you encounter the. commanche you're the piece of [ __ ]. you're not supposed to be there that's. where they live you're in their yard. you're some [ __ ] weird scruffy. American looking for gold right you know. what are you doing here bro you're the. problem you know and now all of a sudden.

that's Texas right that's where we are. we live here now this is my land [ __ ]. this is where I live shut the [ __ ] up I. got this now you know it's weird we're. all Invaders in one at one point in time. every human being that's a nomadic. person that's made their way across the. country you've probably entered a place. where people were before every freedom. fighter is a terrorist yes right it. depends on who wins history stood aside. all that sure if we didn't actually if. the founding fathers didn't pull it off. you know we would be these wild Renegade.

English people that decided to come over. here and just [ __ ] create Havoc so. yeah man there are a lot of ways to go. with all this but I'll I'll just come. back to the teleprompter and say I if. that's an essential part of how. you uh communicate and if that's an. exent if that's part of your image. right you know then you you can't be on. this show right right right you you you. can't you you you can't join me in the.

sewer either there's there's no room for. the contrivance there's just no room. there's just no time I just wonder if. that's what they make them do like if. you make me do that I'll suck too you. know I can't read off a teleprompter I'm. not I'm not interested in doing that. it's not my thing but if you make a. person do that like if if you're going. to be a politician right okay and you. were a senator and which is you know you. don't get that that kind of exposure. that you get if you you're a vice. president or you're running for. president initially right like that's a.

totally different scene and there's. probably a bunch of people that coach. you how to do it right and you don't. know what the [ __ ] you're doing and if. you're not a powerful person like a a. big personality like Donald Trump who. could just do it but also coming from a. world of entertainment for most of his. life he's been in the public eye and. hosting The Apprentice for 14 years like. he's he's used to being in front of the. camera it's a normal experience for him. he has a massive advantage that's what I. meant by production becomes the enemy of.

authenticity yes when you rely upon it. to the point where you can't function in. the midst or in the wake of a glitch. well in a world of glitches you're in. trouble right you know and I and I think. the audience not just yours but the. country I just think they're just. exhausted by by people who have been. managed and focus grouped and we made. and measured and tested and then put out. there I think it's also the evolution of. culture in general because if you just.

go back to we're talking about media go. back and watch a film from. 1950 versus a film from 2024 the way. people communicate now is much more. realistic there was a way of talking. like Hannah what did you do you know. there was a weird performative aspect to. it because they didn't know how to do it. right in sitcoms too. Father Knows Best all that stuff all. that stuff and then as time moved on it. changed like All in the Family was all.

of a sudden this realistic portrayal of. of a family where you got a racist dad. and the son is a you know the the Mead. the son-in-law and the the daughter's a. hippie and the the mom just came for. what are you doing what are you it's a. [ __ ] amazing show oh watch it was an. amazing show s and son sanfred and son. is another one you know it was a comedy. but people talk like people would talk. in real life and then as culture moves. on songs change books change everything.

sort of like moves into the there's a. much greater understanding if you had a. show and you try to do Father Knows Best. today it would almost be like you were. putting on like a parody like it would. it would be weird you would be it would. be like a weird Tim and Eric type thing. like you're doing something weird on. purpose right right and that's not. acceptable any more so the culture's. moved on so for sure but it moves on in. fits and starts and it's not a line.

right right it's yeah yeah just like the. climate right right so like the even the. look the changes in podcasting like it's. happening right now right in front of us. you can see so many different types of. podcasts you see so many different kinds. of uh scripted dramas I mean oh my god. look can you imagine Breaking Bad right. right 30 years ago right right right. impossible right a whole lot of things. had to happen in front of that for for. that thing to The Sopranos had to happen. that's right and something had to happen.

before that yeah well in my world and in. the world you're. describing that was the age of authority. that's when Eric seide could talk to you. like this that's when yeah like like. Discovery is a is a good example you. asked about it and I'll I'll tell you. first of all John Hendricks a friend of. mine who created that channel you would. love he did this in his garage basically. I mean the story is incredible how he. talked Malone into getting some.

transponder space or maybe his westing. house and and Le mortgaged his house to. buy some documentaries from Australia. and started beaming all that stuff down. I asked him years ago I'm like what was. the like what was the guiding principle. behind this this business model and of. course you know Discovery is since. purchased Warner Brothers you know. they're the biggest entertainment. company in the world today and it. started with John Hendrick saying one.

goal to satisfy. curiosity that's. it Discovery everything I do must line. up with a traditional definition of what. a discovery is it's the it's the. satisfying of curiosity yeah and so when. I pitched Dirty Jobs I was coming in on. the heels of what you're talking about.

there was still in non-fiction it was. Richard attenburrow it was Jac kusto it. was Jane Goodall it was you know the. discovery brand was very much a. reflection of some of the the greatest. naturalists and historians and uh you. know astrophysicists in the world they. they deferred to experts and then they. hired guys like me to narrate shows and. we could sound even more official and so. you you had this dance this production.

dance where you had a credible sounding. voice uh and an expert at the center of. the thing Dirty Jobs was not that dirty. jobs was what if the expert is a septic. tank technician or a welder what if the. expert is a skull cleaner or a golf ball. retriev it's a job or sheep castrator an. oral sheep castrator which we can get. into if you want um like what if they. become your source of credible.

information and what if the host somehow. morphs from this. authoritarian expert into a guest with a. bunch of. questions so this conversation happened. between me and some of the guys over. there in in. 2003 and they bought it they didn't buy. dirt didn't like dirty jobs they took it. really to shut me up they wanted three. episodes and and out the deal I made. with these guys was rooted in this.

Paradigm of me saying send me out into. the world to go on adventures and and. don't ask me to know more than I know. but just let me look under the Rock and. let's learn together yeah and so they. said okay we're going to you know you'll. go to the Titanic with James Cameron. you'll climb kilamanjaro you went to the. Titanic no and I'll very nearly it was. canceled a month before because Dirty. Jobs finally hit but prior to that I.

went to Egypt I was exploring uh tombs. with zahi hawas I was at the pyramids I. was in the some of the greatest the. largest undiscovered graveyard in bwiti. the Sands of the Dead where they found. the mummies with the golden masks and. nobody knew who the hell they were. because it wasn't attached to any. Dynasty and who are all these people. with golden masks on their faces and so. Discovery would send me to do these. these shows and they were great.

meanwhile this this hot mess that looked. like a German porno called Dirty Jobs. whes up on the. air and it rates like through the roof. but the problem in. 2004 was that and this is a kind of. cognitive dissonance that always is. super interesting right when a when a. big company or a brand or a political. party or really anybody realizes that.

the thing Their audience wants is not. the thing they want them to want that's. amazing right and it happens all the. time and sure and most of the time when. it happens you know the the. uh you just walk it behind the barn and. shoot it and you and you never hear. about it but Dirty Jobs actually got on. the air before it was shelved for a year. and it was during that year that I went.

on a series of Adventures for the. network doing this other thing why was. it sheld it was sheld because it was. deemed offbrand it was sheld because I. was biting the testicles off of lambs. with ranchers and that's how they. castrate their lambs and they have for. hundreds of years it was not not that. specific episode that that got me in. trouble later but it it was sh because. it was an. unscripted random romp we never did a. second take on the show it didn't look.

like everything else on the network it. didn't look like anything else on the. network it was just a Jagged Little Pill. but they liked me and and and they like. this idea of of a more unscripted look. at the world and so we reached this kind. of daytont and I started narrating all. their tent pole shows and then I went to. Alaska to host Deadliest. Catch which is a whole another story. that crab fishing show yeah that's 21. years now right and up there people died.

you know um that's a crazy job people. died and I I went to six funerals in 6. weeks wow and when they when we looked. at the footage of that and somebody up. the food chain eventually decided okay. this is a world we have to get into but. Mike you're not you're not hosting two. shows at the same time so pick one so. dirty jobs came back went into full. production late in 2004 and Deadliest.

Catch went in full production about the. same time but I just narrated moral of. the story is everything that happened. after that and around that I'm not. saying because of it but but right. around that same time I think the media. World in non-fiction. anyhow began this migration from the age. of uh uh. Authority into the age of. authenticity and ever since um. non-fiction has been has been grappling.

with that just as surely as every other. vertical. because people want to see something. that feels like the truth and that's. that's a sliding scale. yeah that's interesting and that is what. people are gravitating towards more. today and it's that's I mean I think. that's the whole thing we were talking. about why like mainstream news is. failing but independ you know when you.

see exceeding yeah you know it when you. see it yeah you could tell the. difference oh Bourdain yeah. okay. uh I think for me the moment that. crystallizes all of this and he and I. were on Parallel paths I think he was. dealing with his Network the Travel. Channel at the time the same way I was. dealing with Discovery we were we were. constantly at each other's throats.

trying to navigate this this weird line. of reality and authenticity and there's. a there's a scene in Parts Unknown I. think he's in um might be Sardinia he's. diving oh yeah and they're throwing the. fake octopuses in it's one of the single. greatest moments in the history of of. nonfiction exactly how the sausage is. being made but it's also like now you. can trust him because you know he's kind. of sabotaging The Narrative that they've. created for his own show his.

authenticity I would do that for a scene. maybe even for an act maybe even for a. whole segment maybe if I got a like a. like a bee in my Bonnet and I really. just couldn't you know I got angry every. now and then and I you know but. Tony dude he went out and got drunk. drunk I mean drunk drunk and shot the. whole show. smashed and he made them cut it in and.

you can see him he's he's so disgusted. just so you're just so the audience. understands right they're supposed to be. spear fishing for. octopi and the local Handler wasn't sure. that they were going to find any so he. bought some at the. market but they were frozen and dead and. so Tony's down there with his spear gun. with some other diver and these these.

Frozen squid right just start to come by. him and in narration this is where he. really owned it cuz he he owned that. show like he could yeah nobody's going. to tell him what to say so his real rant. happens months later in the vo Booth. when he's just describing the. heartbreaking insincerity don't don't. they know who I am what did they think I. was going to do so it's like he says. something like in the face of this kind.

of wanting deception a reasonable man. can turn to nothing but the elixir of. distilled. alcohol and he just drinks for the rest. of the. show and it airs yeah it airs on CNN. yeah and I think it won a Peabody was. that the CNN one or was that No. Reservations that was CN in was it yeah. it was Parts Unknown I'm I'm look I'm. pretty sure it was Parts Unknown I'm. pretty sure I could be wrong but he I.

think you might be right yeah and God I. just I mean that's what I that's what I. wrote about when he. died it was that yeah Parts Unknown yeah. yeah cuz I've man I've been sitting on a. zodiac I've done that I've been in these. in this world where you're nervous. you've got a lot of stuff to worry about. and then somebody just comes along and. tries to produce a moment yeah you try. to produce a moment well also these guys.

they probably didn't know these Italian. guys like these [ __ ] guys aren't. going to find the octopus we've killed. them all probably right but I got to. think there's somebody there in his crew. somebody over from 0.0 the production. company somebody must have you know who. knows who knows man who knows but look. the fact that that happened is is. wonderful the fact that he was able to. insist that it air that was important. yeah that was important.

yeah well certainly important for how. you trust him and you had to trust him I. mean he that was his whole thing you. know you're coming with me this is. actually me here we go fly on the wall. yeah yeah that was a very unique show. too because it taught me that food is. Art I really learned that from No. Reservations but it followed over. through Parts Unknown food is Art I I. didn't think of it as art until I saw. his show and then I was like oh okay. that's right because I just thought of. art as being like a thing that people.

make that you look at or touch I never. thought it would be a thing you make. that or you hear right I never thought. it would be a thing you make where you. eat and then I saw I'm like oh these are. artists these are artists all these. people they've discovered these. different ways to make things delicious. and okay their medium's different yeah. it's just different it's a different. kind but they then hanging out with them. it's like yeah they're all artists they. they talk like artists they're they. covered in tattoos they're [ __ ]. weirdos they like to do drugs they're. all listening to crazy music you know.

they're also Craftsmen MH like I mean to. me yeah food is Art it sure can be and. it can also be fuel yeah you know it's. it's it's actually both It's Kind of. Perfect yeah you could have both it. could be art and fuel you just got to. pick what you eat. is hunting. art.

um it's a. discipline um it's a primal discipline. it's a discipline that connects you with. life and death in a very unique way that. I don't think anything else does where. you it's very if you do it correctly. right I'm talking about like Mountain. hunting like Mountain elk hunting in. particular which is my favorite it's. very hard to do I train for it like I. have to get in really good shape I. practice so I practice so much I [ __ ] my.

back up because I I was get developing. like tendonitis in my lower back and I. just ignored it yeah shut up yeah yeah. we got we got work to do and so it's. it's it's a discipline more than it is. anything but it's like. um I don't know some people call it a. sport I find that wrong it's not the. right it does take like physical and you. have to be in shape to do it you have to. be in great Fitness but it's not sport. it's a it's a it's a discipline it's a. discipline that's very very very Primal.

it Taps into something you didn't even. know was there it it's like there people. who've ever gone fishing there's a thing. that happens when you catch a fish. there's an excitement that you're not. prepared for it's a weird excitement. that excitement is you're going to feed. your family and stay alive that's what. that excitement is because that. excitement is like hardwired in your. human reward systems and you don't know. it's there until you go fishing and then. you're. like oh here he is get him get him in. the net get him in the oh we got him.

yeah and uh hunting is that times a 100. hunting is that hunting is way different. CU you're you're defying their. protective senses you have to make sure. the wind is going in the right direction. you have to go all the way around if. it's not you got to figure out a way to. move through the trees you got to move. very slowly only move when their heads. down I think that's art. I don't know man I mean it's a shot is. Art I'll tell you that archery is art a. good archery shot on an animal I watch. it like it's art because it's hard to do.

it's very hard to do when I see someone. just hit a perfect 50 yard shot in the. vitals and that Broadhead sinks in I. know that animal is going to die very. quickly it's a quick Humane death and. that's what you practice for you know. Josh Josh Smith over at Montana knife by. any chance sure very well he sent me a. video the other day he went on a big. hunt with his boy moose hunt yeah yeah. yeah his boy got wanted about at a few. hundred yards huge moose Big Moose man. [ __ ] huge for a first moose that's so.

crazy that kid hit the jackpot but the. excitement on the video oh yeah that he. sent me and Josh Primal yeah and bow. hunting is even more Primal than that. bow hunting is that times 100 so it's uh. regular hunting is fishing times 100. then bow hunting is regular hunting. times 100 I just think you know if. you're. whatever canvas you're in front of. whether you're painting or whether. you're cooking or whether you're. stalking like you can like the Muse like.

like does the Muse come to you when. you're stalking does it come to you you. know I don't have an answer for it but I. but but I know that people talk about it. like some people say well you're in the. zone you know sometimes when I. write uh I'm surprised like I just the. other day I started I started writing. something on the tarmac of SFO and when. I looked up I was I was at JFK it was. like that yeah you got into it yeah.

airplanes are great for that oh my. they're the best they force you into. that seat they're the best you can't get. up cuz there's a guy next to you you get. that laptop open and it just comes out. of you and I like a. little look I go I I I wrote a book on a. plane I believe it I I really did and. and I did it mostly in moments that I. don't really remember when when time. gets. compressed and I and I think that that. can happen when you're fabricating. something when you're hunting something.

when you're painting something maybe in. the middle of a set maybe in the middle. of a fight yeah you know I talk to. boxers who say that that it's it's so. odd the way things will sometimes almost. feel like they're in slow motion MH even. though they're happening so fast some. Fighters it's art well I think martial. arts are art for people that understand. it if you watch it it's beautiful but. there's some Fighters that are just so. artist you you you know who Emanuel. Augustus is yeah okay that guy is an. artist that guy's an artist what makes.

him an artist because he's first of all. completely unique okay doing a thing in. this beautiful deceptive way he's. dancing but he's also he has an. understanding of distance that's. fantastic so he's really good at. avoiding punches his head head movement. even with this unorthodox dancing style. is fantastic he's stalking he's doing. something. like here's here's Emanuel like look. look how he moves I mean imagine you're. fighting a guy who's moving like this. it's so crazy he was so hard Floyd.

Mayweather said he was the most look he. just punched him with two hands at the. same time Floyd Mayweather said he was. the most uh skilled opponent he ever. fought wow he and his record didn't. indicate his actual physical ability his. abilities were incredible but it's just. like it was such a wild style so unusual. it's like boxing a bobblehead right like. Prince Nasim ham Med had a kind of a. similar thing going on when he was in. his prime Nasim hammed was uh very very. unorthodox see see here's here's.

fighting Floyd he gave Floyd a hard. [ __ ] time because he's so difficult. to fight like look how do you deal with. that and when you're a guy like Floyd. and you're getting clowned here he's. he's fighting Mickey Ward when you're a. guy like Floyd and you're you know the. cream of the crop olympion I mean a. [ __ ] phenomenal boxer just a. fantastic boxer and then you're fighting. this guy who dancing in front of you. like what the [ __ ] but also really good. he it wasn't just that like you rarely. get a guy who's clowning like that but.

also like those kind of that kind of. head movement skill phenomenal movement. but also can dance in front of you and. land [ __ ] that you don't see coming cuz. it's coming at those weird angles who. was this trainer oh man I don't think. anybody trains you to do that I don't. either do like what does custom a say to. that never wouldn't allow it no he you. know he but maybe maybe if the guy. started winning like that he would. change his tune so maybe people change. their tune when they see something. extraordinary oh yeah when they see.

something weird you know they change. their tune they go well maybe [ __ ] I. don't know because you don't know. sometimes you don't there's there's guys. that come along in fighting in. particular that have styles that are so. weird and so unique you go wait wait a. minute how come nobody else is doing it. like this is this going to work like do. you know who Sean Strickland is I he was. UFC middleweight champion stands. straight up puts his hand like one hand. like this one hand down here and beats. the [ __ ] out of everybody stands. straight up everybody else is down. everybody else is moving sea Sean.

straight up moving towards you. phenomenal head movement awesome timing. and walks people down in a weird style. there's a bunch of guys that fight weird. but they're really good at it well think. baseball too I mean it's everything Lou. tion remember the pitcher I don't freely. file baseball you'll love this Jamie I. know almost nothing about sports believe. it or not you know I mean you will one. day you're going to look at a baseball. game and go hey you know what I need to. do I need to play professional baseball.

and then five years later you're we're. going to be reading about it CU you're. going to go crazy with it the same way. for that but but this Lou tion what did. he do differently Louis ton was a. pitcher and his windup was such that it. looked sort of traditional but then he. turned his back to the batter without. leaving the rubber right so. this guy would spin all the way around. before he. threw and he'd go further than that.

sometimes is that really unusual yeah. yeah it's. unusual that's unusual oh so it freaks. people out a little bit well so yeah. yeah because he just breaks he stops. looking at you look his his back look at. his ankle that's crazy ex that's exactly. it so it's like all you know if you're a. batter you're like all right there are a. lot of different pctures and I'll get. used to this and I'll get used to that. and then this guy comes along that that. dude has flexible knees flexible.

everything cuz look at the the angle his. knee is in before he turns that's crazy. yeah yeah you would actually I'm I'm. surprised you're not into the baseball. because I can't it's it's I don't have. any room I know the bucket's overflowing. that's it yeah it 100% is you know like. uh I watch football now my wife's into. football but I I can't I can only pay. attention so much my my head is filled. with Combat Sports there's I have to. follow jiujitsu Muay Thai MMA in the UFC.

MMA in the pfl Bellator one FC there's I. have I have to keep track of a thousand. Fighters like literally a thousand. Fighters maybe casually some of them. like some of the glory kickboxers. casually I'm watching you know oh B har. is fighting oh you know this guy's. fighting that guy's fighting I know who. these people are I watch them fight I. I'm watching. fights just hours and hours in a day I.

might watch I might watch fights two. hours every day is it work or fun it's. fun yeah it's only fun but I do feel. obligated to pay attention like uh. there's guys that are coming up in other. organizations I see guys have like a. specific skill set That's Unique like I. contacted Conor McGregor in like 2013. he was uh fighting in cage Warriors and. I reached out I said dude you're [ __ ]. super talented I I hope uh I get to see. in the UFC someday and then there's like.

you know kickboxers like Alex Pereira I. follow him in glory and then finally he. comes over to the UFC and I was like you. got to see this guy this guy's [ __ ]. insane it's like you have to have some. sort of an understanding of what's. coming you know and also you have to. like kind of be tuned into the. state-ofthe-art because the state state. of the-art is very different in 2024. than it was in 97 when I first started. working for the UFC the state-ofthe-art. is Elite now you're getting these.

18-year-old kids that can do everything. at like a super high level and they're. like these phenomenal athletes that. instead of going into baseball or. instead of going into football now. they're just they're only focused on. becoming a UFC champion and this is. their goal in life and they're they're. 18 and you get to see them in amateur. organizations you get to see them in. foreign organizations you get to see. them uh travel overseas compete in Japan. you know so to me it's like I don't have. any room I don't have room for baseball.

it's interesting man you've had a front. row seat to to watching that sport. become as dominant as it is at the same. time you're watching the podcast World. blow up well. the first so I was a fan of the UFC in. the very very beginning and it got me. Jiu-Jitsu so ' 96 I started taking. Jiu-Jitsu 94 I found out about the UFC I. i' you know kept it in my head for a. little bit I was still kickboxing at the.

time just not fighting anymore but just. training I was training at a bunch of. different places in North Hollywood this. place called The Jet Center in Van eyes. before that went under so I was just. interested in martial arts always and. then the UFC came along and I was super. interested in it but I didn't really. have a lot of I was on News Radio at the. time it was very difficult to have the. time to start train then '96 I started. training and so I started working for. the UFC in '97 and that was when it was. banned from cable you could only get it. on Direct TV and uh we had to do these.

shows in like Dothan Alabama where you. took a propeller plane it was [ __ ]. hell it was no money. 977 and is Dana bar knuckled and Dana. was not involved yet when did Dana get. involved 2001 so uh I'm on Fear Factor. at the time and uh one of the things me. and my friend Eddie Bravo who was also a. big fan from back in the day and he. taught me Jiu-Jitsu when we were uh. first really into it when we would go to. like Louisiana this there was the only.

places that would sanction these fights. they were bare knuckle people wore shoes. he could grab their shorts it was like. crazy rules yeah and uh we said you know. what it would take these billionaires. who love the sport and dump a t ton of. money into it that's what it would take. like someone would have to dump a ton of. money and then Along Comes Lorenzo and. Frank f 2001 these billionaires that. happen to get in love with the sport and. so they buy the UFC and then um they. start putting these shows together and. then I meet Dana and then I started.

asking Dana like have you ever heard. about this guy did you ever see this guy. fight in Japan you you ever heard this. this Russian dude and and I started. asking him about Fighters like you. should try to get these guys and then. he's like do you want to do commentary. and then next thing no I'm a commentator. for the UFC okay this is just very weird. triangulating but they didn't even have. any money at the time because they were. hammering money so I did the first 13. shows for free and back to the art thing.

you must be willing to give it away. whatever it is you love you must be. willing to give it away for a time at. least well for me money has always been. fun coupons and so I was on Fear Factor. so I had plenty of fun coupons so my. thought was like oh I have money I don't. have to worry about money right now like. I I'll just do this yeah this would be. fun to do nevertheless you know I mean. it was the same thing with dirty jobs. once that thing lit up I had to be. willing to to sign a contract that was. probably illegal I mean it was such a. ridiculous contract the way they own you.

soost is crazy it's like no money but. but if it's a hit if it sticks we have. you for 10 years yeah or you renegotiate. my Ace in the Hole with dirty jobs was. technically I was the host and I can. host that show without doing the thing. in the show that made people watch which. actually do the work there's no contract. that can force you to bite the ball off. of sheep right right you you have to be. willing to do that and so I I was able.

to fix that but Dana I'm trying to. remember what year this would have been. when did The Ultimate Fighter 2005 okay. so in. 2004 uh Dirty Jobs was on the air it was. in that weird space where we didn't know. if it was going to be a hit or what but. I was Nar ating all kinds of stuff for. this guy Craig. pogian and I walked into Craig's office. in Hollywood and Dana was sitting in.

there I had no idea who he was I just. walked in to say hi and uh and Dana kind. of knew me or recognized me and Craig. said uh hey this guy Mike he's narrating. American Chopper American Hot Rod he's. Nar he just goes down the list and and. Dana says say something and I and I said. and I said previously on The Ultimate. Fighter and he said fine you'll be great. I did I did 10.

seasons that sounds like Dana he said. say something yeah that's hilarious was. great yeah that's hilarious. yeah that's interesting how things. happen like that you know well you were. going to you know you wouldn't be. sitting here now if your lease wasn't up. or whatever yeah I probably wouldn't I. would have gone back to New York I think. the art thing we should. not be done with that yet there's. something I'm thinking about the clips. you were playing what do they call.

boxing the sweet science mhm yeah so. like Art and Science I think I think. anybody who's passionate about what they. do can approach what they do uh like a. scientist or like an artist or maybe. both or maybe both I think both so you. know I I've got this uh this Foundation. that evolved out of Dirty Jobs it's. called microworks and we award these uh.

scholarships to people who don't want to. go to a four-year school but who want to. learn a trade right we've been doing it. for 16 years and uh I started doing it. um in part for my granddad but but. mostly uh because there are what 8. million jobs now that don't require. four-year degree. and there's $1.7 trillion in student. loans on the books right that is just. bananas and we've got these huge.

shortages in in the skilled trades so I. spent a lot of time talking about how. that happened and and what might be done. to to fix it but regarding art it's like. you're old enough to remember wood shop. and metal shop and sure you know. before it was shop it was it wasn't just. votch it turned into votek but before it. was votch it was the vocational Arts.

that's what they called it and so we. didn't just get rid of the vocational. Arts we we started with the language and. and we took art out of it and that's. when it became votc and then there were. a bunch of other acronyms and. abbreviations and hyphenations and so. well there's also a weird distortion. Society where we have decided that we. place a higher value on someone spending. an enormous amount on education for a. job that doesn't pay nearly as much as.

the education cost where you're burdened. with debt doing a job where you have to. work your way up a corporate ladder that. might be hell over becoming a carpenter. yeah over building a house everybody. needs a [ __ ] house over being a. plumber and if if you're a guy who can. figure out how to do good carpentry if. you understand how to use tools you're. taught properly you have a good. apprenticeship you can make an. incredible living it's very satisfying. it's skilled it's it's it's a job that.

is creative it's skillful and when. you're done you bring satisfaction to. other people that live in that house. like you there's a great benefit to it. but our society has got this distorted. view of Tradesmen and it's a really dumb. thing because it [ __ ] you up because if. you're a kid kid and you go through the. university system you get a degree. that's kind of useless but then you get. a job and you're making $60,000 a year. and you're like oh my God I have. $200,000 in student loans and I'm doing.

a job that's not very satisfying and I'm. kind of stuck I'm working my way up but. it's going to take a long time before I. make enough money where I'm not burdened. by this yeah or you could have a. successful Construction Company by then. I mean you could you could get a small. business loan and you could you could. start. like hiring other people you could have. trucks with your name on it like I know. people have done that they live very. well and you know it doesn't mean you're.

dumb like a lot of these people that. live very well are very self-educated. they read books they watch documentaries. they're interesting people and they're. entrepreneurial we've got this bizarre. thing in our head that if you didn't go. to a school and get a degree you must be. a dumb person it's weird and it's not. smart it's it's not good for for anybody. to think that way well you know I I very. rarely play The Devil's Advocate in this. argument but but I I do think I know why.

it happened or at least how and I was in. high school in the late 70s and there. was a very concerted push for what we. call higher ed which by the way already. sets the table right yeah if it's higher. ed over here I guess we have lower Ed. over here you guys are the language is. is is awful but the but the pr I and to. be fair in the ' 50s 60s '70s we we. needed more doctors we needed more. Engineers we needed more people. matriculating through you know fouryear.

schools but what happens with PR at. least from what I've seen is that it. always goes too far and it wasn't enough. just to make a persuasive case for that. path we had to do it at the expense of. the jobs you're talking about so if if. you don't go this way you're going to. wind up turn in a wrench with a giant. plumber's butt crack and some other. ridiculous Trope so it's a lot of. stereotypes and stigmas and myths and. misperceptions that started to swirl.

around the trades and that you know I I. don't know when it happened but I. especially where you grow up like you. know if you grow up in a place that's. Highly Educated like Massachusetts where. I was Boston very very educated place so. if you were person that pursued the. trades you were you know probably a. failure something this is like all you. could do cuz you couldn't make it in. school and yet you loved This Old House. yeah which is a love letter to the Trad. it really is every single one I love.

watching people make things yeah even. dumb things like there's a there was a. guy I think it was a PBS show where he. would um make tools and like do like. stuff the way people did like way back. in the day like he'd make his own planer. and you know yeah yeah oh yeah and he. would make furniture and [ __ ] yeah I. didn't have any desire to make furniture. but I loved watching this guy because he. was really into making Furniture it was. his art he yeah he was an artist yeah. and he was authentic he actually loved.

it you could tell it wasn't like this is. like his scam like I know what I'll do. I'll make [ __ ] take ancient tools and. figure out no this guy really was into. it well what's happened there for me. anyway is that I I mean after 16 years. of it I can tell a a pretty good story. anecdotally but now I'm able to go back. and talk to people who we helped what 5. six years ago uh with like maybe a. welding. certification and it's amazing when you.

say hey how's it going and they say. how's it going I'll tell you how it's. going 210 Grand a year I bought a van I. hired my buddy who's a welder then I. hired a plumber then I got two HVAC guys. and an electrician we're doing three and. a half million a year got no. debt and so like my job is to is to talk. to that guy and and I do that a lot on. my podcast it's just like I just want to. hear your I want to hear stories of. people who prospered as a result of.

mastering a skill that's in demand right. and then maybe applied some level of. either Artistry or entrepreneurship or. the willingness to move that's a big one. too you know will you go where the work. is or you know and so it's it's really. become it's why Bobby Kennedy called me. back in February you know he was like. hey man this micro Works thing you want. to make it macro works and I said yeah. sure what do you have in mind and that's. I don't know I don't know if you knew.

this but we had this whole conversation. about like running together you know. really oh yeah yeah he he asked if I. wanted to be vice president oh geez. Louise what' you say. dude I was in. Munich I was in Munich in in January and. he he had called me earlier just to talk. really um generally about um about the. middle class cuz he's like look what. you've done with the foundation this my.

campaign is a lot about that and uh and. I'd love to talk to you more about it so. I I kind of put him in the category of. elected officials politicians who might. who might be useful you know I I'm not. I'm not that guy but I said yeah look. man I i' I'd be happy to chat well he. called back and and you know Gavin to. Becker right yeah so um they did a dive. dude they this was very strange for me.

uh they did a deep dive and when I got. back to the Bay Area um he invited me. down to his home to meet you know the. cats they were all there and we talked. for like 3 hours and I I'm looking over. my shoulder honestly like I'm being. punked like like which one of my crazy. friends right put you up to. this but he was serious and and I was. weirdly um flattered maybe like I knew I.

couldn't say yes but I was so. interested in what his thinking was. right and we spoke for a few hours and. then we stayed in touch for like the. better part of the next month and I. actually really for the first time ever. just tried to try it on you know M and. it didn't fit you know it I'm I I would. never do well in an office or in a. bureaucracy he called me up once to ask.

me who I thought would be like good vice. president I was terrified he was going. to ask me oh yeah I was terrified I was. like please don't ask that I my because. I know he asked uh well he asked Aaron. Rogers yeah which is crazy yeah I I. literally heard the sound of my. sphincter slaming shut like what the. [ __ ] man like I just tensed up and I was. like who wants that job who wants that. [ __ ] job that's job's insanity but. man I I'll tell you B.

he it was a really um he was very. gracious and very direct and I I tried. to be too and I told him I'm like look. the Infectious Disease thing I get that. the middle class thing I totally get. that the forever Wars I get all that and. then he he's like Mike do you do you. understand. 77% of the youth today wouldn't wouldn't. qualify to get into the Armed Forces do.

you. understand what the crisis is we face. right now never mind health health is. its own thing and I've got lots of. things to say about it but Fitness just. basic Fitness you know his uncle was. starring in commercials 45 years ago. that were literally we'd call it fat. shaming today you know challenging you I. just talked to him uh the day before. yesterday and he said you know Google.

any photo of Yankee Stadium sold out. from the 60s or or even the. 7s and try and find the fat. people they're not there and if they are. they're hard to find do it today they're. impossible to miss something. colossally horrible Hasen happened. anyway he was very passionate about all. that yeah and I said but it's an. important message it is an important. message and it gets lost in this idea of. being a compassionate person that allows.

people to just be their authentic self. you know and there's nothing wrong with. being fat there's nothing wrong with. being big you're being lied to okay. you're robbing your life of Vitality. it's just that's just the way it is and. I'm I'm sorry if you're already there. but it doesn't help anybody to pretend. that you're not there and the only way. we get out of this is we try to figure. out what happened between 1960 and 2024. what happened in the well we can figure. it out it's not Columbo this is a.

[ __ ] this is like the evidence is all. there we know what the ingredients are. that are bad for you we know we've done. the food supply we know we've done it's. real it's readily available it's what. you eat when you say we though I mean. human beings Collective the collective. intelligence what percentage of this. country do you think what percent. this is part of the problem and this is. why it benefits to have like that in. office most people aren't aware of it. you know I've had a lot of conversations. with people they have the this really. distorted idea of nutrition what's.

important and what you need and but what. what's good to thrive what's Optimum. versus what is just going to keep you. alive these people that think oh you. just need a balanced diet no you need to. take vitamins if you do not take. vitamins you will not have full. optimization of your body what do I want. to take with d by the way is it. magnesium you want to take magnesium and. you want to take K2 you want to take. vitamin K. magnesium and you know there's some. arguments some other stuff too that that.

would also enhance it but you you. definitely need Vitamin D almost. everybody does and and if you live in a. cold climate in the winter time you know. a buddy of mine uh did his residency in. um I think it was Boston and he was. saying people would come in and they'd. have undetectable levels of vitamin D. because they were just never in the Sun. and they they didn't supplement at all. all and you know there's some vitamin D. in in in milk when they enrich it with. vitamin D but the reality is you need. Vitamin D and you need quite a bit of it. and if you want an optimal immune system.

that's really healthy it's imperative. it's it's really important and there's a. lot of other things that are really. important vitamin C is really important. you know the vitamin B is very important. bunch of different bees um you need. essential fatty acids they're very. important you need all these things if. you don't have these things your body. won't function right do you think that. the basic fear and conversation around. skin. cancer um. and the lotions and the coverings and. the sunscreens and I mean to what extent.

do you think people are not getting. vitamin D because they've been scared. out of the sun there's a lot of that for. sure I mean the best way to get vitamin. D most certainly is from the Sun that's. the way your body is naturally designed. to get vitamin D you're supposed to be. outside all the time and it'll make you. healthier physically it's good for you. it's it's actually a hormone that your. body produces when it's in the vitamin D. is a hormone it's or a precursor to a. hormone I guess you take it orally but.

what what it's doing to your body like. George St Pierre when he was fighting. would tan and he would tan specifically. not to look good because it's actually. better for your health and fitness to. you get more vitamin D that way yeah. yeah and there's there's a reality to. that that's why people are really. [ __ ] depressed when they live in the. Pacific Northwest cuz it's raining all. the time time you're not getting enough. vitamin D it's actually bad for your. psyche it's bad for your mind it's bad. for your health your your again overall. Vitality if you want to have strong.

Vitality you need to eat nutritious food. and take vitamins and you need to. exercise there's no ifans or butts about. it you need those three things 100% no. shortcuts no shortcuts I don't know that. probably not many Silver Linings to the. lockdown but I did I started walking I. I've always been active. but I kind of backed off of the gym as I. got older and started walking every. morning for 8 Miles and then you know. Mike Easter um he became a friend uh the.

Comfort crisis and I started uh rucking. yeah and so oh that's great yeah Mike's. a big proponent of that big time yeah in. fact when Bobby called it was funny he's. hard to understand sometimes and I was. impossible to understand cuz I was. gasping for breath I got 65 lbs on my. back walking 8 Miles every morning he's. like what are you doing I'm like dude. I'm dying I'm dying I'm rucking but um.

yeah I just I think it I think there's. really something important in that book. that that Easter wrote and and and I. think our um it's not the specifics of. what we can do this idea of a what do. the Japanese call it a m a. Mogi uh a quest. or a challenge of sorts that you should. well you should challenge yourself to do. every so often yeah and one of the uh. one of the Criterion is you should have.

a 50% chance of. failure right so you it's a it's a real. push into uncertainty and. discomfort and that that's why I Ruck. it's UNC it's. uncomfortable yeah I think that is an ex. exercise for that part of your mind the. same way cardiovascular exercise works. for your cardiovascular system I think. the discomfort exercise is a real thing. and you know Andrew hubman has talked.

about this there's actually a specific. area of the brain when you um enact. voluntary discomfort and do things you. don't want to do all the time it. actually grows remember what that is. remember what he called that part of the. brain but uh you know he speaks about it. of course he's a neuroscientist much. more eloquently but I think that's real. and I think um it also makes regular. life a lot easier that was one of my. favorite things of Jiu-Jitsu when I. found out it makes regular life easy. because it's regular life is not. anterior mid singulate cortex that's.

what it is uh engaging in challenging. activities can stimulate and grow this. region which is crucial for learning or. excuse me leaning into and overcoming. difficulties yeah and if your life is. super easy and anything that comes up is. a nightmare it's probably be because you. lack enough voluntary adversity to. overcome uncomfortable moments so. uncomfortable moments are rare and when. you encounter rare things generally. people like kind of have anxious moments.

encountering rare things well anxiety is. a form of discomfort yes and it's not. just pain it's not you know that's I. think most people equate discomfort or. uncomfortableness with like physical. pain but the way Easter talks about it. it's it's also boredom like being board. makes people super uncomfortable because. we're so not used to especially today. especially today you could pick this. damn thing up and you know instant. access to 99% of you're robbing yourself.

of a lot of possible ideas sure yeah. because the best ideas come where you. bored when you're bored I used to have. some of my best ideas when I had no. radio um in my car uh because I would. just be driving and my best ideas would. come all I driving so instead of being. entertained I would just be like. thinking like you're constantly thinking. yeah you know and when you're involved. in you know an ordinary activity like. driving where you're just so sort of. like plugged in like hit your blinkers. change lanes you're so plugged in so.

you're in like this weird mindset and. then if there's no nothing entertaining. you your mind just starts thinking about. things right because sometimes you come. up with great ideas your your. mind your brain will find whatever you. send it out to look for yeah it'll just. search and search until it finds it and. if you don't give it anything then it'll. look inward right it'll find something. you know cold plunges not comfortable. yeah but you know if you can find a way.

to to like it I don't like it I don't. like it at all I do it every day I hate. it yeah but I love it when I get out I. the moment before I get in I'm always. like can I talk myself out of doing this. I don't want to do this it's [ __ ]. cold outside it's 40° outside I'm. climbing this 34° water. but but but because I do it I know that. I've already done something way more. difficult than most of my day I think. there's a difference in in knowing what.

the benefits are of a cold plunge which. would require you to do some research. and do some reading and do some thinking. and and so forth versus just saying okay. I know there's some benefit I don't. actually need to know specifically what. it is I just need to know that there's a. an overarching benefit in embracing the. yeah I need you know and if I do that a. couple of times a day I think I'm going. to be better for it and and that that's. useful that's been useful to me that's.

useful but it also is beneficial. physically so it's both things and I. think that's the case with exercise too. that's also the case with sauna. difficult things that are also very. beneficial physically they seem to go. hand inand because it's the hormetic. effect your body is freaking out because. of the cold and that's why it produces. all these um cold shock proteins and. that's why uh it produces all these. anti-inflammatories your body just feels. better when you get out the endorphin. rush you get you know the um.

norepinephrine this this this flood of. these chemicals that last for hours. wraps up your dopamine by like 200% and. it lasts for hours like you genuinely. feel better so there's all that it's. also good for Recovery muscle soreness. and just general inflammation there's a. lot of like Ben benefits but that's the. same with exercise right it's difficult. to do it's hard to do but if you can do. it man you'll be stronger healthier you. feel better it's like it's like you've. got to go through that suck to get those.

benefits and people don't like that and. so they come up with a bunch of reasons. why you don't need that that's just a. fat that's just a this they all look. like [ __ ] everybody says that they all. look like [ __ ] they all talk like. [ __ ] they're all just they're cowards. they're afraid to get in there they. don't like getting in there they don't. like that other people get in there. every day and they don't get in there. every day so they come up with a reason. why getting in there is not really worth. it yeah it's all it's all a bunch of. hogwash it's the latest fat it's the. this it's the that and yet look at the. stadium 50 years ago and look at it.

today yeah the evidence demands a. verdict something something awful has. happened yeah it's like it's like the. difference. between uh being hungry and feeling. hungry mhm you know that's something. else I I think about a lot I mean how. often do we say maybe you don't but how. often do you here God I'm starving I'm. [ __ ] I'm famished like no you're not. you're really you're really not you. can't possibly be yeah talk to a fighter. that's trying to make weight those guys. are famished those guys are they have no.

water in their body yeah for the week. before they're living in hell they live. in hell some of those guys they start. their cut like four or five days out. it's crazy they that that's starving. you're that's only your voluntary. voluntarily starving you know it's not. real starving real starving is like you. might not be able to eat you might not. be able to Fe feed your kids you're just. using willpower to starve that's so. different than at any other time in. history it's a different feeling you. know like if you're a person that's.

making your way across the country and. uh you're the Wag The Wagon breaks part. and now you're yeah and that's real. starving real starving did you ever read. was a book by Nathaniel filbrick it's. called in the heart of the sea no oh. man this is the true story of the. sinking of a whale ship called uh called. the Essex right and the sinking of this. ship uh inspired Herman Melville to.

write Moby Dick and what happened was in. I think it was 1821 The Wailing industry. in Nantucket is so fascinating this. Nantucket back then was basically run by. women because the men would go out for. two sometimes three years at a time. Jesus hunting right whales which are. just sperm whales they called years. years yeah they were called right whales. cuz they were the right whales to kill. right and in that time uh it was a great.

source of energy for the country all the. lamp lights burned on whale oil imagine. how many whales there were before they. started doing this they were like. schools there were so many we this book. will I mean it's it's rich in a in a lot. of different ways it's where they got. the expression Steely Dan actually it. was U cuz it was just the women and it. was a a device used for pleasuring. themselves cuz the the the men were all.

out to see oh my God so they'd use a. Steely Dan oh you want to talk about. hard lives the the business whatever it. takes to shoot the elk and get it down. from the mountain I get it that that's a. thing but when you read through the real. process. of getting a sperm whale out of the. ocean alongside the ship and then onto. the ship and The Cutting of the blubber.

and the cauldrons that burn 24/7 on the. deck and the blubber that's put into the. cauldrons and so they're just making. this rendered fat they're rendering the. fat in the oil in real time oh wow and. and cuz they have to or it'll rot that's. right and so they just load up the boat. wow so what happens and this is not. really are they eating the whales too no. no no what are they eating oh they've. got their they got their hard Tac.

mostly hard Tac is just kind of like. crackers biscuits with no real um taste. at all it was the oh they're sick it was. the currency get used to anything. probably got scurvy you know I mean but. they would these guys would go all. around the world and this boat the. was a couple thousand miles off the. coast of. Venezuela and um what happens is it's. it's it's the ship is the main ship with. the guys on it and then when you see a.

whale right you basically put the whale. boats in the water and these are smaller. maybe 22 ft long and Men row them right. and so you Harpoon the whale and then. you hang on and go for what they called. a u a Nantucket Sleigh Ride Jes whale. would just drag the what if the whale. goes under it can't go under much. further it can't pull two boats down and. it doesn't they they tend to swim in a. in a straight line after they've been. harpooned so you just you just hang on.

and then when it tires itself out you. row it and you back to the whale ship do. they kill it first uh well no no it's. killed back at the at the ship typically. you don't want to kill it when it's when. you're a mile from the ship cuz you got. to drag it back they didn't know how. smart whes were back then either we. didn't know anything but on isn't that. crazy that that's only a couple hundred. years ago 1821 isn't that nuts well. couple hundred years ago the ocean. filled with whales filled with them and.

like that cuzz if you look now they're. hard to find and nothing hunts them no I. never even really thought about it they. were everywhere I mean I knew about it. but I never thought about it I never I. mean we've talked a lot about the um the. decimation of the fish population in the. about like 90 plus% of all the big fish. are gone which is really nuts but I. never really thought about it that way. when it comes to Wales well you can make. a really good and really controversial.

case they made a movie Ron Howard made a. movie yeah yeah Ron Howard made a movie. on this yeah it's amazing look I mean. they they were everywhere wow so these. guys Harpoon one that's so crazy from. from the whaleboat then they get tugged. along look at all these whales and then. while they're out maybe a mile from the. ship the mate of the mail of the whale. that was.

harpooned starts ramming the ship Rams. it three times oh no sinks it oh no now. you got a couple dozen guys in whale. boats 2,000 miles off the coast of South. America with no supplies. so man what happens and this is all in. the in the preface but the story. basically starts. when one of the whaleboats is discovered.

not far from I think it's Venezuela and. the guys look over the the gunnel of of. their boat and in the whaleboat it's. just like a giant carcass it's just. bleached. bones all in it except for two quasi. humans one in the stern and one in the. bow each skeletons huddled up staring. each other with wild eyes just waiting. to see who would die next so they could.

eat him yeah and there were rules there. were almost like. cookbooks that were very common how many. people were on these boats double check. me Jamie but I I think there were. probably a dozen on each one many family. members it was a boy named John coffin I. remember and and there were I mean a lot. of these guys were related you know and. and they they were dear friends and. family they lived together on Nantucket.

they ate each other they ate each other. man how long was it before they. discovered them they were at Sea a drift. I think for the better part of three. months went to the ntion that's him Nate. Philbrook. fantastic in 1820 the whal ship essics. was rammed and sunk by an angry sperm. whale leaving the desperate crew to. drift for more than 90 days in three. tiny boats when did this movie come out. 2015 for the movie The manuscript was.

found in 1960 verified in 1980 oh my. 84 dude you want to take a deep dive go. to the like the whaling museum up in New. England this stuff is this I mean in the. day there were strict protocols on how. to eat your friend how to prepare your. friend for them on the spot or did they. have them prepared they devis on the. spot there was a what the rules no no.

they were written it was it it was like. a maritime code so they kind of knew. that this was a possibility they knew it. was a certainty they just didn't know. for whom oh this was. common this to find yourself with a. group of people hopelessly Marooned. whether you're on a boat or an island. with nothing to eat at all there there. were protocols pretty strict protocols. on how to draw lots to decide who would.

go first how to kill the person who. would go first oh boy who not to eat. based on the degree of your relation oh. boy so like brothers are definitely. off but cousins not. optimal so like people were being being. prepared for consumption raw uh I mean I. I can't imagine how you would make a. fire out there oh my God. unable oh my God oh my God that's.

interesting Owen Chase right the men. spent over three months to se and had to. resort to cannibalism in order to. survive Captain Pard and Charles. ramsdale were discovered gnawing on the. bones of their Shipmates in one boat. Owen Chase Lawrence and Nickerson also. survived to tell the Tale in all seven. saers were. consumed wo dude boy see this is why. non-fiction is the best. o I know it's nauseating but I mean that.

book at a point in time you got to go. what I might wind up in Hell before I. starve to death because I've eaten. everyone. else right when you're knowing you're. starving to death and you've already. eaten everyone. else that's oh my God cuz there's going. to be one last person's and then there. was one oh. gr God I know I know reality is so. terrifying in that regard that we we.

have you know we we're so fortunate that. there's so much food available the. poorest amongst us are. fat but the reality is if that cut off. it would be real desperate real quick. most people get really hungry after 5. hours you know they feel real hungry I. found description if you'd like to read. no no okay that's not that bad. okay the crew according to chase. separated limbs from his body and cut. all the flesh from the bones after which.

we opened the body took out the heart. and then closed it again sewed it up as. decently as we could and committed it to. the. Sea they then ate the man's organs soon. they began to draw lots to see who would. be shot and eaten next a custom of. maroon Sailors dating back to the 17th. century three men one boat survived and. two in another the three men who. remained behind on Henderson Island were. also rescued after surviving on eggs and. crabs for nearly four. months Boy and this is why we have Moby.

Dick wow this is why the greatest. American novel arguably of all time was. written because Melville came from that. part of the world and he understood the. stakes of hunting whales and he. understood the absolute imperative need. to get energy you can make a really. interesting and controversial case. around how the fossil fuel industry. saved the whales yeah I've heard this.

before because had had that not happened. in Pennsylvania in Titusville yeah not. long after this we'd have hunted them. into absolute Oblivion well we almost. did that to mammals North America yeah. Market hunting um there used to be elk. in every state in the country there used. to be deer everywhere um and we. basically hunted them into Oblivion the. Buffalo is the best example of that of. course the hell is the matter with us. man oh we're [ __ ] up and we can't we.

don't see consequences we see what's in. front of us right now and what we need. to do and back then they didn't really. have a a real understanding of what. would happen that had never been done. before no one had just showed up at a. continent filled with mammals and just. start decimating them there wasn't like. a history of that it was also the invent. of the firearm was fairly recent so it. was a lot easier to get these animals. you know and then they had the Henry. rifle so they had long range rifles so. they were able to shoot Buffalo from a. distance and and then they you know for. a lot of them they only used their. tongues they pickled their tongues and.

sent them back East bananas I was in a. kuster uh couple of weeks ago for a. buffalo Roundup oh wow man this was a. kick this is um so this is Western South. Dakota not far from Crazy Horse and um. Rushmore M you know we worked on a Crazy. Horse for Dirty Jobs we did an episode. mean the sculpture yeah sculpture is. weird because there's no real drawing or. painting or anything no photographs of.

Crazy Horse no nobody knows really what. he looked like well they're working from. a a model that seems to have been. blessed by all the appropriate parties. but this they started working on this. thing 50 years ago and it's going to. take another 40 before they're done I. worked on the fingernail of Crazy Horse. with a whole crew what does it look like. now I haven't seen it in a long time. you'll love this J it's it's it's so. mind but you you can take all of. Rushmore all foreheads and put it on the.

forehead of Crazy Horse wow that's how. big this thing is and is it wasn't it. like one family's undertaking yeah uh. gor go to that last picture that you. just had that one right there so that. shows before and after it shows where it. was a while back and where it is now. look at look at his finger in the lower. right that's what you worked on yeah and. I scaled down his uh forehead to do. basically some Tiding up of his nostrils. and whatnot when we were there it's.

that's crazy how big that is it's. massive it's absolutely massive and yeah. this there was one guy uh quak was his. name and he was an immigrant and he. loved the Indian people and that's. that's the model there at the right yeah. that's what it's going to look like. that's what we're shooting for Wow and. it's it's it's going to take another. half a century probably but wow that's. incredible you know what's funny man. it's very controversial amongst Native.

American communities though right I. don't know it is you know I think. there's there's a part of it is the. thing that crazy horse didn't want to be. photographed yeah you know he really. believed that cameras were like Ste yeah. that that was a a belief back then which. is I mean. well you have this novel thing where no. one's ever seen it before and you take. an image of someone like. that diminishes you yeah also human. beings at that point in time were so.

horrible to each other and these. settlers had done essentially demonic. things yeah to the population just with. diseases just bringing diseases yeah so. of course they would say what do they. doing now oh this is the [ __ ] Cuda gr. they're going to steal our soul with. this [ __ ] box. thing goes off you got to stand still. this guy corack he was so brilliant on. so many levels yeah I think he had 13. kids and that they were basically his.

Workforce he built into the Rock the. staircases that they needed to take to. get to this space the like the work. ethic is mindboggling what they did and. he was a he was a real friend uh to the. Native Americans and he and this was a. love letter for them and to them and and. who was uh crazy horses was it sitting. bear maybe I forget but you know he he. had all of the he had enough blessings.

of the requisite players to to embark on. this thing well I think anything anytime. you have some enormous thing you're. going to have. controversy well you're going to people. that don't like it that do like it you. know there for sure what you do but the. difference I mean for me I called when. we brought um. we brought Dirty Jobs back during the. lockdowns because I just felt like I. wanted to be I wanted to be the first. show back on the TV you know that was. that was shooting and this was one of.

the first things that that we did but I. started by calling. Rushmore and I'm I'm not telling you the. story to make anybody sound bad but it. really just was kind of appalling you. know I said look I I I want to bring my. crew and and I I'm really I want to tend. to this statue this statuary this. monument at the time you know the. headlines were filled with statues being. pulled down and being disrespected for.

any number of reasons right right I'm. like look I think the I think the park. service does an amazing Duty and I and. and I I want to meet the car takers of. our statuary and I would love you know. to work on this with the people who work. on it and and they not only said no they. were like are you are you crazy we would. never we would never permit anything. like that like I think they thought it. was exploitative somehow and I'm like I.

want America to to learn the story of. Rushmore I want them to learn something. about the people memorialized on it I I. want them to meet the people who care. for it it's it's just a love letter to. one of our monuments but it was a hard. no and I really wanted to go to that. part of the country and so we I I knew. Crazy Horse was nearby and the answer. was oh yeah come on out anytime man and. the difference of course was Crazy Horse. isn't being built with a penny of. federal. money it has no federal oversight it's.

very personal to this family and the. people who are still in charge of it are. true custodians of it it's really. interesting when you when you talk to. people who are in charge of a thing that. that means a lot to other people. Monumental in reality Monumental. monuments yeah yeah I mean it's a some. some people I think see it as a burden. some as a challenge some as an.

obligation but for me I you know the. vast majority of Americans are never. going to see either one of those. monuments in person so to to show. them more people will have just seen. what jimie put up here as a result of. this probably then we'll then we'll. visit in person and that's amazing dude. yeah that is amazing when you think. about a couple of guys smoking cigars. and sipping a coffee and just passing. the time and all of a sudden you're able. to learn about the way they drew lots.

and the way we where we got our energy. from just a little while ago this. Buffalo Roundup I was telling you about. I mean it's there were only a couple. thousand of them and when you think. about the accounts of the of the day day. when where the where the Buffalo Rome. was as far as you could see just thick. do you know um Dan Flores do you know. who he is tell me he wrote uh American.

coyote and he wrote what is it uh. Buffalo diplomacy Buffalo ecology is. that what it was I for I forget but the. Buffalo premise is very fascinating cuz. the numbers of Buffalo he believes but. they were in such large numbers because. so many Native Americans died out. because of diseases so the Native. Americans would follow the buffalo hunt. them and kill them takes a long time for. gestation for a buffalo so when the. buffalo have new Buffalo it take it's a.

long time to repopulate but if the. Native Americans 90% of them are wiped. out by disease when the settlers came. here so there's no one hunting them for. a long time and so the populations grew. immense and so that this was not. something that was reported when the. first settlers got here when the first. people came to the first Europeans came. to North America and made their way. across the country never did they. describe massive herds of Buffalo it. wasn't a thing it wasn't a thing until. after the Native American population had.

been decimated by disease and then the. Buffalo flourished and became. overpopulated in a sense and unnatural. po because they didn't have to worry. about wolves they didn't have to worry. so when they first were here right. Buffalo existed far back for the ex the. there was a mass extinction of like 65%. of uh North American mammals that. coincided with the end of the Ice Age. and probably had to do with the younger. drias impact which is a theory about the.

Cambrian thing or was it it's a 11 well. there's two different time periods that. they attribute to um there's a there's a. shower an asteroid shower that we go if. you really want to get into this you. should really um look up younger D. impact Theory online and then a guy. named Randle Carlson who's like kind of. dedicated his life. to showing that this is probably what. ended the Ice Age there's a bunch of. science behind it in terms of like core. samples and stuff they do that shows.

that there's asteroid impacts that. happened all over the world during this. particular time period and he thinks. that coincided with the extinction of. the woolly mammal the a the American. lion a lot of different animals that. just died off 65% of North American. mammals died off during this time period. and. you got to think like when the Buffalo. existed back then they existed with the. North American lion which was bigger. than the African Lion it's the biggest. lion ever so they're getting jacked by.

these massive predators and then you. have this Extinction event and then you. have humans start hunting them and so. humans now horses have been reintroduced. to North America by Europeans humans are. on these horses and then they're hunting. these animals reintroduced by the way. cuz horses originated in North America. including zebras all horse species came. from here but that was the north the. bearing land bridge and things moved. around and when they the mass extinction. event happened it killed off all the.

horses here but then there was horses. over there that they kind of extrait. from America brought them back in and. now Native Americans have horses and so. they are really effective at hunting. Buffalo they get the numbers down to a. number where when people are making. their way across the country they're not. seeing them everywhere and then you have. this Mass event where 90% of Native. Americans die then you have millions of. Buffalo this is what Dan Flores writes. about it's really interesting.

1830 40 you'd have to go to whatever 18. 1850 is what it's yeah I here's the. tragedy for me um I narrated a special. about all. that I can't remember it man really I. mean I I I remember enough of it to know. that I narrated it that's what I would. told you three hours ago I'm is that the. Ken Burns one is that what you could. have. been could have been I know if it was. Ken Burns he he always hires a Peter.

Coyote oh Peter does all pet Coyote's. great yeah but I um that's what I meant. earlier when I'm like I I I. feel I don't think there's anything. wrong with me yet but my my bucket's. full too and it's so annoying like I was. talking to a friend of mine just. yesterday about how the universe works. which is a show I've been narrating for. the Science Channel literally for 10. years. mhm and um you know he he he he knows.

all of the information in the show but. he thinks because he heard me tell it to. him that I know it too but I don't I'm. just adjacent to it right I know I know. just enough to you know to keep a. conversation on its feet but it's like. it's this constant thing man I'm I'm. older than I've ever been and it's just. nagging at me now cuz it's like God damn. I should know I I should remember more. of the I I should I should have.

remembered more about Phil brick I. should have remembered more about um I. don't think where's a designed for it I. don't and I think humans like yourself. is this is kind of a new thing like in. terms of human history people that are. exposed to so many different things so. many different topics so many different. experts so many different timelines and. stories that you're dealing with that's. it's essentially a new thing with human. H human beings you know what dunbar's. number is no dunbar's number is the. number of people that you can keep like.

in your mind memor in in your memory. right that's essentially born out of. necessity and tribal life right so we we. essentially have the same brains and the. same capacity same hard drive as people. who lived in tribes 10,000 years ago did. and but we're still. stuck with this hard drive with this. world that has an endless supply of. information and it's consistently. bombarding you with new facts I read. that like Bill Clinton's number is way.

high like certain people's numbers oh. who they can keep in their head like the. number of people you can you can keep it. probably expands just like the part of. your brand expands when you do difficult. things it probably expans there's a. podcast as you. know dedicated to what happened on your. podcast I didn't know that yeah there's. a podcast out there basically called. experi I don't know what it's called. experiencing The Joe Rogan Experience or. something because because there's too. much information on your show right. right there's just too much and people.

who love it get anxious because they. can't process all of it and so like. there's an ecosystem in other words. there's a dosent to bring it back to Art. this is what we need I think more than. anything today we need somebody like if. you're going to go to an art museum you. need somebody to lead you through I do. anyway somebody who can it helps it. helps man if you're going to go see if. you're if you're going to go see a.

martial arts fight for the first time if. you're going to go to the Octagon it'd. be better to sit next to you than than. me right sure so everybody you'd be. annoying I'd have to say you don't. okay how much do you know why that. hurts here let me let me show you can. you can you feel that I I'm just saying. that I think more than ever. before people need a guide they need. somebody to make sense out of all the.

information CU I don't think there's any. there's not much new information it's. just accessible in ways we ever seen. there's new information too How can. there be because it's information is. acquired upon the consumption of all the. other information like it's all. exponential piles on top of each other. it's it's not just now we know because. of the new information because of the. information that we've acquired now we. have a new understanding so that's new. information you know nutrition con.

there's constantly new information. nutrition how's that possible people. have been eating forever because now we. know more about it so it is new. information well it's there's no such. thing is an old joke if you hear it for. the first time right so if I just learn. that vitam D is important but better. assimilated with magnesium and K2 I. might say that's some new information. but you would go no dude that's old. information you're just learning it. right but it's fairly new anyway because.

nutritional science has really only been. around for What 100 plus years and the. understanding of it today is far greater. than at any other time in our life. because of guys like huberman because of. these different scientists that have. dedicated themselves to educating people. about nutrition the process that your. body goes through and it absorbs. nutrients like and what what enhances. that what you know enzymes different. things you eat let me say it this way. then there's a body of information that. exists that I don't know and then.

there's a body of new information that I. also don't know because it's new right. and the body of the stuff that I don't. know yet that's been around forever is. massive massive the new stuff is new and. I don't know how big it is but it's not. as big no this incredible repository of. stuff like when I walk in a library and. look I mean just look at all that stuff. man look at this cured thing here in my. hand it's like oh my God if I have an. internet connection I have access to 98%.

of everything that we've ever known yeah. now that either makes you intensely. curious or intensely uneasy because now. you know both maybe but you have it now. you like like if if you're not like what. are you doing like you're sitting on the. toilet are you are you reing are you Tik. tocking like how are you spending the. one truly finite resource you have your. time what are you doing with it man a. lot of us getting distracted Jesus yeah. but there's stories they're Buffalo.

stories and whale stories that are out. there I think that's why people like. your shows you know I think that's why. people like podcasts I think that's why. people are interested in documentaries. there's still people out there that are. interested in being curious for sure. yeah that's how we make a living Mike. yes yes Joe it is that's what we've done. it's a pleasant living listen man it's. been awesome talking to you I really. appreciate it it was a lot of fun you. know what three hours just [ __ ] flew. by I'm just I mean full disclosure I'm. I'm kind of relieved I know I mean I was.

getting so annoyed with friends of mine. who were like hey man why haven't you. been on the show what's I'm like I maybe. my mother said maybe he's not that into. you you know it's just a time thing he. he'll call you one day there's a lot of. people out there but I but I really did. want to talk to you. can I show you a truck before we go sure. sure CU I know you're a car guy yeah so. this company called Sugar Creek up in. Ohio made me a truck ooh all right what.

kind well it it started as a 1964 Dodge. Power. Wagon it ended up as this dude I've seen. that online that's yours that's mine Ah. that's crazy I love those old Power. Wagons dude that thing looks incredible. great job they did on that it's it's. unbelievable 27 it's about 9,000 manh. hours oh my God that thing looks a. [ __ ] incredible oh you got a. hellephant engine in it 1100 horsepower. oh my goodness look at that so it's got.

a TRX Hood it's it's wow you will that's. that's [ __ ] great I know oh do you. drive that uh Barrett Jackson is going. to auction it off no in January why why. keep it because my Foundation needs. money and right so it's it's going to. get a I don't know what it'll go for he. says a bunch but oh that'll go for a lot. of money man yeah that's probably going.

to go for half a million dollars at. least no he says two 2 million $2. million probably cost half a million to. make wow beats me you know this is. another one of those worlds maybe. auctions are crazy because a bunch of. Rich guys get in there and go I want it. and then they start feeding off each. other look at this [ __ ] thing that's. incredible $2 million Jesus Christ who. knows but I I I went up to Columbus to. see the garage where they make this. thing and you need to put this on your. list of stuff to do when your bucket's.

not overflowing cuz a guy called John. Richardson who owns the biggest bacon. Factory in the country Sugar Creek is. crazy Automotive freak he built this. giant garage he hired 27 Savant and all. they do is take classic cars from his. sort of Quasi junkyard and turn them. into these gems oh wow so he built this. for me and Barrett Jackson said yeah. we'll auction it off so I went up there. with my crew just to look at it dude.

these guys man it's what we're it's I. would have never be able to let that. thing go it's the art we were talking. about it's it's that's Artistry that's. art yeah oh 100% that's art yeah yeah. Mike I appreciate you very much man. thank you thank you for being here was a. lot of fun all right bye everybody see. you he. [Applause]. [Music].