Joe Rogan Experience #2166 - Enhanced Games

Joe Rogan podcast check it out The Joe. Rogan Experience Train by day Joe Rogan. podcast by night all. day gentlemen good to see you good to. see you please introduce. yourselves uh I'm Dr Aon dusza president. of the enhanced games and I'm Christian. angaya co-founder of the enhanced games. and uh this is a very exciting idea and. how did this come about what what was. the impetus behind this I've been.

studying the Olympics and the Olympic. movement my entire life you know I'm 39. years old when I was a undergraduate at. University it was just after the Sydney. Olympics and you know it was always. something that inspired me and I thought. to myself you know I I learned some key. statistics 44% of Olympians admit to. using ban performance-enhancing drugs. within the last year according to. research commissioned by the world anti. 44% 44% and the other you know probably. lying are losing yeah exactly.

and and so you know and then I learned. that the average American Olympian only. earns $30,000 a year and I thought to. myself there's something really wrong in. the system and instead of you know. trying to reform it let's take a blank s. slate of paper and invent the third. Olympiad from scratch well the Olympics. is kind of a scam because it generates. billions of dollars in revenue and the. people that are there to perform make. almost none of that that's correct they.

actually the international Olympic. Committee doesn't pay any of the. athletes uh incidentally they may get. some money in sponsorship or from their. National Olympic Committee But. ultimately the billions in dollar. billions of dollars in Revenue come into. the Olympics and none of that goes to. the athletes it gets wasted building. stadiums it gets wasted paying officials. and we thought there's a way to do a. better more honest model that inspires. us to believe in the future of Science. and Technology in the 21st century and. you could do it a politically too if you.

chose to you know are are you guys doing. it by Nation or are you doing it just. like human beings human beings uh I yeah. I think the era of nationalism is is. over right look at the Eurovision Song. competition. recently um what is that oh it was when. you know Israel was performing and there. were huge protests out front of the. competition very it's a very European. thing it's called European song contest. I me contest a song contest every.

country every year makes a very cheesy. song God I actually like. it let's not go there I'm kind of a fan. um being German um it's a big thing in. Europe but unfortunately it's it was. super fun and campy there's actually a. Netflix movie about it like not a. documentary but a fun movie about it is. this it right here Jimmy uh well that is. one recent winners of the year year. she's amazing she's amazing it's Len she.

amazing okay yeah it's very catchy songs. I don't know what your song She's. crawling around with her butt up in the. air well it's very campy I guess but but. there is even a cool Netflix movie about. but long story short unfortunately this. was the first year where it became. really political which I think music. shouldn't be yeah uh and which was sad. yeah but we will not be political that's. the short version we're not going to go. per country yeah it's the best human. being the fastest one highest jumper. whatever yeah yeah it's just so many.

countries use it as a political tool you. know and they get they cheat like I'm. sure you guys have seen Icarus right oh. yeah I was with Brian FAL a couple days. ago he's great and that documentary is. amazing and the what I mean what. incredible like circumstances like the. way it all played out where he's in the. middle of doing this documentary about. doing a race naturally and then doing a. race enhanced and the guy he contacts in. the middle of all the Sochi Olympics.

that guy winds up fleeing the country. spilling the beans and now he's hiding. witness protection yeah yeah still in. this country hiding from Russian. Killers yeah and that's right and I. think you know the reality is that. performance enhancements are everywhere. uh 6.3% of men um in the western world. have used anabolic steroids at some. point in their life 75% of men who. regularly go to the gym are interested. in using steroids and so instead of. doing it.

underground in secret let's do it out in. the open with clinical supervision and. and and safety but what is what are the. legal ramifications of this because uh. we were talking about this in the we. were talking about the different drug. schedules on the podcast yesterday and. steroids are scheduled right it's like. schedule three it's a yeah it's a. schedule three substance in the United. States there are 23 countries where. steroids anabolics are legal including. in the United Kingdom for personal use.

and so let's first distinguish between. what is legal and what is banned so in. Olympic competition they always say oh. these drugs are illegal but actually. they're they're banned in Olympic. competition so because there's a lot of. things that are you know like peptides. and things along those lines that are. illegal in the Olympics that are banned. in the Olympics but they're not they're. not because that means the Olympics. decided as a as a sort of private. organization we don't want that you can. take it right yeah so legally you can.

take it so like trt for example is a. perfectly legal substance it's FDA. approved it's delivered under clinical. supervision but if you used it you would. be banned from Olympic competition right. right so the vast majority of compounds. that are banned by the world anti-doping. agency are actually perfectly legal you. know the UFC had a guy that accidentally. took something that had DHEA in it a. real highlevel guy khil rry and he was. supposed to be fighting Jamal Hill uh in. in 3 weeks and he found out that there.

was DHEA in it he informed the UFC told. them and DHEA isn't even performance. enhancing and they banned him for two. months so you got a two month so we. missed out on like the biggest. opportunity of his career so if you go. into your local GNC 25% of the goods. will contain substances that are banned. by the world anti-doping agency 25% yeah. so these are just off the shelf you know. this is not Black Market this is what. you can buy in your local shopping and. then of course there's tainted. supplements which is a real problem.

because a lot of these supplements they. use uh another party that puts them. together for them generally in other. countries and a lot of them in China and. these people are also making different. things with these Vats they don't clean. them properly and then they mix the new. stuff in it and you easily get C. contamination happens all the time. exactly and well that's the excuse that. the Chinese government used about the 23. swimmers are you aware of this situation. what's what's this so 23 Chinese. swimmers tested positive TMZ which is a. heart medication and they claimed that.

this was because of a when was this how. long ago oh uh just 6 weeks ago it was. oh really came out six weeks ago that. incident was was earlier yeah so 2021. but yeah the New York Times reported. ited no sanctions 13 athletes won on the. New Year's Olympic Games in Tokyo won. six medals three of them gold huh well. they they definitely did something. during Beijing too yeah well the the the. Chinese clearly were doing this. intentionally and the world anti-doping.

Authority because of pressure from the. Chinese State covered it all up and. that's not my accusation that's the. accusation made by Travis Tigard who's. the CEO of the US anti-doping agency. okay so the premise is let's cut the. yeah you guys are there's been. people that doing it's like the argument. for tour def France right like tour def. France when they stripped Lance. Armstrong the next person that had not. ever tested positive was 18th Place yeah. and if you look at the. the the 100 meter time so the fastest.

man in the world seven of the top 10. fastest 100 meter runners in history. have had a doping. violation and the only one that's not in. the top five is usin bold wow so it's. just a scam it's a scam yeah and we've. been hearing that for years about. sprinters particularly sprinters in. other countries that they're they're. enhanced and especially if you're like. your national pride is involved and they. know that there's ways that you can kind. of finagle things and get around them.

and you hire doctors to test people and. use masking agents or whatever the hell. you do MH in the UFC they don't even let. them rehydrate with um IVs anymore yeah. same thing in cycling so if You' take. more than 100 milliliters of IV within. 12 hours that's considered a band. substance you can't to any IVs in the. UFC really yeah they won't let you. because just because of the fear of. masking uh performance-enhancing drugs. because you could flush your system mhm. but the the problem with that is like. like IVs are good for you like this is.

really stupid like if if you can make. sure that a person is just doing IV. vitamins I mean if your random testing. is effective you should just do that. like don't stop someone from doing. something that's going to make them. healthier while they're in a business. that's about as dangerous as you can get. without people shooting at you yeah and. so the solution is not to do um drug. testing it's to do Health testing like. we want to make sure that our athletes. are healthy and safe to compete so we do. cardiac screenings MRIs blood work um to.

measure their biomarkers to ensure that. they're within healthy ranges and that's. the core difference right the drug. testing apparatus at the Olympics is. about fairness and competition it's not. about the health and safety of athletes. here's the question if you open up the. gates and say you're allowed to take. whatever substances you want at whatever. levels you want in order to compete at. your very best how close to redlining. does a person get you know especially if.

you're involved in something that. requires strength and explosive energy. like we've had f one of the things the. UFC at one point in time had uh. testosterone use exemptions and you were. allowed to get those if your. testosterone was at a low enough level. the problem with that is that was not. thought out at all you can you can beat. that test in hary just stay up all night. stay up all night eat 15 cheeseburgers. and jerk off three times and you're. good you know you're going to be you're.

going to be at like. 200 oh my God you're sick Bob like but. it's also there's another problem is. that people that have a history of. anabolic steroid use generally they've. wrecked their endocrine system and. particularly back in the day the early. days of MMA was all enhanced and if you. go and watch Pride for instance like. Pride which was the Big Show in Japan it. was this enormous organization in Japan.

that kind of fell apart because the. Yakuza was involved with it and they. went bankrupt a lot a lot of craziness. involved but at one point in time they. were selling out like these 990,000 seat. Arenas in Tokyo it was nuts and. everybody looked like a superhero I mean. just Jack just giant Jack guys. beating the out of each other and. everybody who went over there will tell. you like the contract literally. specifically stated in capital letters. we do not test Force steroids they will.

encourage you to do steroids over there. they want you to look good they want you. to fight at your best like we don't care. what you take just go over there and go. ham but it comes down to a fundamental. philosophical question shouldn't an. individual with free and informed. consent an adult be able to make choices. about their own body they should but the. question is when is it not fair right. it's the epitome of fairness if it's. very transparent what is unfair think. about it like you winning silver in the.

current Olympics and I talked to so many. athletes they kind of know who's. cheating or not because if you are very. like into sports you know what is kind. of let's call it unnatural or enhanced. right so but they cannot say it there is. a lot of politics as you say whatever so. you win silver you stand next to the. person who won Gold and you have a deep. hunch that this person is enhanced that. is the worst because you're betrayed of. your performance uh because the people. on the screen cannot contextualize it.

what we are saying is like by way we're. also not anti Olympics we're like the. Olympics should be really clean then. it's interesting because then I have a a. framework I can judge performance but in. our case people will know that people. take enhancements we actually will. endorse people to even say what they're. doing because it's completely open and. then again you can contextualize so both. is about either zero or completely free. slate in the medical framework is the is. the real definition of. and and from 1896 until 1992 the.

Olympics banned professional athletes. from competing and so the Olympics were. amateur and there were professional. sports leagues elsewhere and I think the. same thing is going to happen in the. 21st century the Olympics are going to. be the natural Sports competition where. we're going to see what the best of a. human 1.0 can do and at the enhanced. games there will be what can the best. Unleashed human superum can do but. here's the question if you guys are. successful.

what what athlete would want if you guys. are successful and it becomes a huge. household name and people watch it and. it becomes exciting what and you make. money what athletes are going to want to. do the Olympics for free and get a. microscope up your ass and people. constantly testing you for this and that. and knowing that other countries are. probably pulling off some Shenanigans. like China allegedly did not our problem. but I agree with I agree with you like. by the way the same question is it's a.

good answer not our problem problem like. but I don't want to I don't want to not. wish them well like it's just like I. think we're going to do better and and. the other thing is by the way what I. deeply believe humans are wired we want. the best and we want to also watch the. best yes you're not going to watch. something where the best natural player. no you want to see the best absolute. player even if this player or person is. enhanced like but again the future will. tell and the consumer will tell but we. are super but it's like the the rise of. the UFC so the UFC was unbridled by the.

traditional rules of boxing and other. Combat Sports and you know the simple. premise that roron Gracie had was how do. we find the very best fighter right and. that's just a very simple question and. at the enhanced games is how can we find. the fastest human being or what is the. total. potentiality of the human spirit and and. all of humanity so how do you get. there's a lot of factors right you need. people that have already competed you. know you know you don't want to get. someone just starting out at a sport.

right so you have people that have a a. deep history in the sport where they. want to and they can they're capable of. competing at an elite level and then if. they're going to do your games they have. to kind of make this decision because. they're never going to be able in the. Olympics again after that right well. they actually could go back to the. Olympic system but they would get so. tested and if they do I mean if they do. start taking testosterone do start. taking a bunch of other things it's. going to inhibit their natural ability.

to produce hormones technically most. likely comes back but I would say it's a. decision of the Olympics and other. sports leagues how they want to handle. athletes who also at a certain time have. participated in our games maybe they say. there is a cooling off period so I it's. not that we will exclude them going back. it might be that other sports leagues. say look once if you're in the enhanced. games you can't come back to us and it's. fundamentally an economic question too. so your average Olympian is earning. $30,000 a year. you know the best performing Trek and.

field athletes might be making a couple. hundred thousand bucks a year um and you. know we're offering a million dollar. prize for to break significant world. records and Bas so it's a million. dollars just to break the world records. yeah a million bucks to break the 100. meter world record on the track a. million bucks break the 50 meter. freestyle world record in the pool so. the the question is like how can you. ensure that you're going to get Elite. level athletes that are capable of. performing at like an Olympic. level and they're going to they they'll.

be risking it's a big it's a significant. risk to them because they'll be openly. admitting they're a part of the enhanced. games they're openly admitting that. they're taking these substances in order. to compete at this level and they don't. know if you guys are going to be around. like well so number one you don't have. to take enhancements to be at the. enhanced game so you just be a regular. person gen yeah yeah you can say hey I'm. I'm I won the genetic Lottery right and. I think I can beat all the enhanced. athletes they make for great television.

yeah that's fun too right yeah and so. you know if you if if you've believe. you've won the genetic Lottery and you. think you can show up and break a world. record and get a million bucks they. they'll come and do it right and do it. naturally uh and then some athl say you. know I did not win the genic Lottery and. I want the chance to be the Neil. Armstrong of Our Generation to to to to. you know but this how I think of it I. think we're we're building the Apollo. mission for the 21st century you know. what did the Apollo Mission do it showed. us that we were so much more capable as.

a human species right we we had a new. threshold going to the Moon using. Science and Technology to overcome our. limits this is exactly what the enhanced. games is. about sort of you're not going the moon. let's be serious it's going to be cool. like you're just getting a bunch of guys. Juiced up running really fast big. difference but uh still history still I. would say breaking a world record is is. a thing maybe not going to the moon but. like it's a it's something people aspire.

to do well it it is it's also we'll know. for sure that these people are doing. something whereas before we just suspect. it you know I remember when Ben Johnson. got popped and everybody's like oh I. can't believe he cheated but then you. find out that Carl Lewis was taking. stuff too I think everyone on the. starting line in the 1988 100 meter. final was uh they probably all were you. know Bruce Jenner took him famous I he. talked about it like taking him when he. wanted to. and by the way one thing is that we.

don't even need to speculate if athletes. want to do it because we did a So-Cal. casting call so we're doing a. documentary about the way to the. enhanced games together with Ridley. Scott so we made a big casting call and. we have more than thousand professional. athletes many of them who are in the. Summer Olympics who applied to be in. that documentary and hence in the. enhanced games so the question if this. is an appealing proposition is answered. so more than thousand what about the.

pressure from countries like different. countries that have Elite athletes that. compete and sprinting and and whatever. boxing I spoke to two head of States. about it one is a very close friend and. he texed me every week he's like I can't. wait for this to happen he's one of our. early fans like uh so they're in too. well at least the ones I spoke to I. don't think there will be a lot of. pressure because again what do countries. want what is sports for them is a way to. show their National pride and if you.

have national pride you want your person. to be the fastest person in the world. right if that's with enhancements like. right so weird and it's also a point of. national pride it will be a point of. national pride to be the most. technologically and scientifically. Advanced Society yes that has the. engineering and intellectual capability. right to develop and manufacture and. clinically supervise these products it's. actually what is interesting like when. we teamed up um Aon had the idea talked. early uh I have my own investment firm.

so I'm both the investor and uh and his. co-founder we both were actually. calculating with much more negativity in. actually a good way because it's driving. our recognition so but I'm always. jokingly saying it's almost going too. smooth because people love it like the. only people who don't love it is the. Olympics but like like the the feedback. we getting from my 14-year-old godson to. a head of state is like that's. awesome like uh well it's also everybody.

knows that athletes are taking things. they've been doing it forever you know. before usada came into the UFC there's. it's There's an actual um a lot of. people studied the difference between. certain Fighters that were competing at. an incredibly high level before usada. came and then they their their physiques. melted I mean you could see the the. difference it's a giant difference but. they were all passing drug tests before. but they're passing drug tests by the.

athletic commissions on the day of the. fight which by all accounts is an. intelligence test it's just whether or. not you're taking the proper steps to. cover Your Tracks yeah you just got to. know the half lives of the products that. you're taking and and everybody knew. that that was the case yeah and so. instead of going your way they went the. way of just crawling up everybody's ass. with a microscope and they do it you saw. it was doing it in a very intrusive way. where they were waking up fighters on. the day of a weigh-in early in the. morning cuz they they they'll show up at.

6:00 in the morning but and it's because. usada is not accountable to anyone the. international Olympic Committee is not. accountable to anyone you know it's like. it's a really important question about. how the structure of sports. internationally Works do you know who. appoints the members of the. international Olympic Committee no right. so logically it should be like member. countries like the UN or maybe the. athletes should elect the members of the. ioc no the ioc is a club. of European Aristocrats that was formed.

in 1896 that just elects itself and so. it has no external accountability it's. not regulated by anyone it's not. accountable to any governments and so. that means that they can just set the. rules however they want and this is how. they've gotten away with not paying. athletes for over a 100 years yeah that. makes sense um what are the sports that. you guys are going to Showcase and will. you have Combat Sports yeah so there are. five key Sports. track swimming combat gymnastics and.

strength and for Combat Sports you can. have boxing wrestling what are you going. to have so boxing and MMA are definitely. in MMA yeah really yeah H that's. interesting so MMA. um if you're going to have people being. enhanced in MMA that will severely limit. their ability to compete in other. organizations. so how are you going to get highle.

Fighters that are not going to compete. in Bellator or not going to compete in. the UFC or how are you going to do that. well I think the entire MMA Community is. clearly moving away from the the. traditional drug tating apparata so look. at what UFC has done moving away from no. no they just moved to drug-free sport. which is just a better organization does. the exact same thing they're doing the. exact same things the exact same things. are banned including peptides like bpc. 157 in which people argued like this is.

ridiculous this shouldn't be illegal but. what they said is the problem is State. athletic commissions test for bpc157 and. as long as they test some of them do at. least as long as they deem it illegal we. have to make it illegal even though yeah. I mean soft tissue injuries it's really. great for Recovery yeah and so you know. in terms of athlete recruitment there's. such a wide pipeline you know the. difference in terms of um with uh MMA. and Combat Sports is there's no OB. jective World Records so you know the.

it's solving for a Fame question not a. performance question right it's to be. one of the people that does it. so have you talked to athletes about. that Combat Sports athletes we've had uh. in in the casting call that we did we. had uh maybe about 15% of the athletes. were in the uh combat disciplines really. including X UFC athletes yeah ex UFC. athlet so guys at the end of their run. yeah you know that's that's where. performance-enhancing drugs are very. appealing right you know you've you've.

been in your career you know you're sort. of 30 35 years old and people say you. know you're out of it you should be. retired and they're saying this isn't. now with the emotional maturity that you. have in your 30s right to regain the. body in your 20s and to come back to. compete at a high level it's also the. wisdom it's it's not just emotional. maturity it's like accumulated time. sparring accumulated time in different. scenarios where you just you know what's. coming next it's you don't have to think. about it's programmed into your.

system um so they're all kind of well. that is interesting cuz like I don't. know how much you guys follow MMA but. one of the the great errors of MMA was. VOR Belford when they let him take. testosterone M so do you know about this. okay it's legendary in MMA because he is. the best example of a veteran a guy who. is was an older guy first fought in the. UFC at 19 years old in. 1997 and and in the 2000s I was like.

2004 or five that's when they allowed. the testosterone use exemptions and VOR. looked like an alien he would come Luke. rockold saw him and like at the. weigh-ins and he was like my first. thought was what the is this guy on. cuz he just look he had a mohawk and he. just looked insanely jacked and he was. knocking everybody out I mean Fearless. but um because of the testosterone use. exemptions and then there was some. controversy about it they had tested him. one time when he he lives in Brazil and.

they had tested him one time when he was. in the United States and he was off the. charts like you're not supposed to have. that much testosterone your system this. is insane and so then it started. this controversy and then ultimately. they got rid of testosterone use. exemptions but he was the perfect. example of a really Elite fighter who. you know is getting older his body was. kind of failing him and just he did a. lot of steroids when he was younger. allegedly and so his physique looked. kind of soft and then all the sudden he.

looked like a freak just a real. freak and he was just wheel kicking. people and knocking everybody out and it. was like he went on a run for a few. years where he was just Unstoppable it. was terrifying and everybody knew he was. enhanced you'd look at him just like. good Lord so then he gets off of it. 20066 17 rather is him off of it so 2012. is vtor high on the sauce I mean look at. him. and then 2017 it doesn't even look like.

the same person it doesn't all of his. muscle went away and all of his. endurance went away his endocrine system. was shot from years of doing trt and you. know and just whatever else he was doing. and and what I would caution about that. is having the highest quality clinical. and scientific supervision so the. problem about the current environment is. that it's largely done underground very. few athletes have access to highquality. doctors most of the information is what. I call Bros science on bodybuilding.com.

forums or gym guys that tell you I got. you bro yeah someone on Instagram so you. know what we're trying to do is a very. rigorous scientific uh and medical. process to ensure that we gather. highquality clinical data and we share. it we're going to publish it in the top. journals and we have a scientific. Advisory Board we have doctors from you. know previously at FIFA um you know the. chairman of genetics at Harvard. Professor George church is on our. Advisory Board and we really built up a. serious scientific and medical.

establishment to make the enhanced games. a very serious Endeavor and when you do. this so you're going to have Combat. Sports so you'll have MMA you'll have. wrestling not sure not sure about. wrestling but you know we're we're still. open to ideas in terms of the pool of. athletes that we can recruit wrestling. is you know increasingly a niche sport. um the participation numbers are down. the television numbers are down you know. so it's an an economic decision because. one of the core challenges of the. Olympic Games is they expanded to so.

many sports it's so much content so. expensive to run and so in our analysis. of sports it's always what can be. delivered with the highest television. and social media impact with the lowest. infrastructural cost H but you're having. sprinting and all these other games too. right they don't you think that. wrestling is like I mean wasn't it the. original game in the Olympic Games it. was the original sport yeah but you know. the we are inspired in some ways by the.

Olympic Games but we don't want to be. held back in history like the ioc is. right they're they're like oh it must be. every four years right we must have. these certain Sports in um our games are. going to be every year because that. gives an athlete athletes greater. opportunities to monetize and engage. with their fans um and we believe that. we are the Olympics not of Reinventing. agent Greece but of the future so have. boxing boxing certainly.

H the only worry that I think people. would have is that giving. someone sub substances would allow them. to hurt someone more it's like it's. different and I I know what you're. saying like the other person gets them. too so but it's a discussion right if. someone runs faster because you gave. them something like no one's getting. hurt there you know maybe reputation's. getting hurt whatever but if if you give. someone something and allow someone to.

beat someone more you know but isn't. that the wrong World discussion because. then we shouldn't pull up to that mic. then we isn't that the wrong discussion. because we shouldn't then do boxing if. we don't want allow people to hurt other. that's the real discussion right that's. real exactly but I think a lot of. discussions are always pseudo. discussions where we can have a real. discussion should we have boxing but. like right it's the same ethical yeah. Power slap right but don't get me. started oh my God and then but the other.

one is that maybe it's actually safer. for the. athletes if they're enhanced because. maybe they can recover better maybe they. can take more punishment you know maybe. if you know they do get hurt in a fight. they'll recover better from the fight. than they would naturally there's a good. argument there as well yeah the. certainly what is appealing particularly. to older athletes is reducing recovery. time yes oh yeah I mean it's a. significant thing for guys just in as. they get into their 30s if they're still.

competing as a professional they realize. like I don't recover as well 34 even. though I'm still in my athletic Prime in. terms of ability to perform their. ability to put in work in the gym is not. quite the same and the way they feel the. next day is not quite the same I can. tell you I started the whole process. like I always when I start a company I. want to feel it myself what is really. what I'm talking about it's not just. like so I'm going through the. enhancement process of an athlete myself. um and it's unbelievable like you feel.

20 years younger in like recovery I can. train every day I wake up in the morning. and don't feel stiff anymore I'm like oh. this is how it felt when I was in. my 20s yeah it's really strange that. that's looked down upon yeah I can't. really understand it no I can't really. understand it it's like I think it's a. natural right like you want to be at. your best at any time in your life and. it should be your decision by the way. what is your best I'm not saying that. people should be jacked that this is.

aspirational it should be every single. person decision yes what makes you happy. what is aspirational for you but what. whatever you define you should be. allowed to do if you're a grown-up and. if you do it that is always my sort of. not limiting factor but I'm really. adamant I I also I don't know if you. know where I'm also working on bringing. psychedelics back that's the same sort. of discussion into the medical world. it's always you have to do it with a. doctor in a sort of informed environment. but then it should be up to you the same.

with performance enhancement yeah I. could agree more and I think another. aspect of this whole thing is what you. said initially we all know that the. Olympics are dirty we all know that we. we anyone who's seen Icarus and if you. haven't seen I really recommend it it's. amazing this these state funded state. sponsored programs have existed forever. and they've just been doing weasly. things to try to avoid detection and. they get caught all the time and it's. not as simple as like everyone just.

really wants to find out who the best is. and they're on the honor System and. everybody is Honorable no it's like. they're taking things everyone's taking. things they're all hiding things but but. imagine the scientific potential of all. of that research if it came out into the. open in terms of anti-aging in. particular the same compounds that allow. uh individual athletes to run faster and. jump higher are the ones that will allow. us to be younger faster and stronger for.

longer and and you know I think that's a. very admirable um aspiration you know. look at Robert F Kennedy Jr you know. he's doing pull-ups when Joe Biden and. Donald Trump can hardly walk up a flight. of stairs yeah and he is very openly. enhanced yeah openly enhanced and works. out with jeans on which is odd right. jeans thing is so weird like what are. you doing man but also about it's an. important point I think some a lot. people always put enhancements into just.

the vanity pocket yeah which is by the. way and I think is a very legit pocket. because for example I'm doing it more. for vanity but like if you look at older. people like sarcopenia like a rapid. muscle loss whatever is a problem for. many people and we take it as normal. we're like oh it is normal that you're. losing muscle mass and I was like no we. can do something and the life of a 70. 80y old will would be completely changed. if they have a functioning muscles. system which is by the way easy to. produce but like we're shying away.

because it all got. comingled in that 80s 90s doping debate. there are extremely good anabolic. steroids with a very good medical use. case take anavar yeah or these kind of. compounds like they are very good for. older people with muscle loss with. osteoporosis what we don't give it to. them so I spoke to so many doctors it. they still there but the doctors's like. oh like I have these reputational risks. giving an 80-year-old an anabolic.

steroid because the word became so bad. despite they all agree this would make. the life of millions of older people. much more livable by the way small doses. but like yes any so I'm very passionate. not just about like enhanced games we. hope will be a a crystallization factor. for a whole societal change on how we. look at body autonomy how we give how we. give the decision back to people again.

what they want to be with their body. with their mind and all of that and with. the current state-ofthe-art science too. it's like what is the point of having. all this knowledge and functional ways. there's there's absolute ways to enhance. the way your mind performs your body. performs and to chalk it off to vanity. is so crazy like well what about fashion. should we get rid of that. too you talking about that's vanity do. you know what the legal definition of. medicine is no I do not so it's a. fascinating thing I only learned it a. couple weeks ago so in the 1920s the.

carnegi foundation commissioned a. sociologist from uh John Hopkins. University Professor Albert flexner to. go and study medical education and so it. used to be back then that anyone could. call themselves a doctor right really. yeah yeah anyone could call damn I. missed the boat yeah anyone could just. read some books and you call yourself a. doctor and then after the flexner. report it was uh decided by state. legislatures that we had to regulate. what it meant to be a doctor and what um.

medical education was required and the. definition of medicine as a result of. that is that medicine is about the. treatment and cure of disease it's. making sick people less sick right and. if you walk into your doctor and you say. I'm a healthy 39y old but I'd like to be. extraordinary he would say I'm. sorry medicine legally cannot help you. well wasn't this the reason why um Prov. viil and new vigil when they first came.

up with those I believe they came up. with them with the idea of them being a. performance-enhancing substance but then. they didn't have a way to prescribe them. so they used narcolepsy yeah you mean. there's yeah yeah it's interesting stuff. right because it doesn't make you speed. no it's like I think it's like by the. way I always tell that at universities. when I give a speak that's the real mind. or intellectual enhancement drugs. because it doesn't make you chidry.

whatever by way you stack it uh with. neut. Tropics yes we I do a lot of things yes. but he's the one that's more enhanced. ask him about a stack but like I think. again but but it's a good example like. why do we say for students or whatever. oh it's bad if you try to be the best. like and why is a is a substance modil. which is by the way wildly studied which. is there since decades every single. neuroscientist in my team in my biotech.

sector I talk to is like this can be. taken safely in moderate amounts like. and all of that why are we like shying. away to discussing that this is a good. thing like I don't even understand it. like is there a large body of research. on long-term use of mapol yeah enormous. like I really trust me because I take it. yeah I I looked at it you want it right. now yes how do you feel great like but. it's like uh so but. um but really like because like we have.

this whole So the lucky thing in my life. is I have these resources like and we're. one of We're the largest investor one of. the largest in Neuroscience globally so. I have all these colleagues at hand and. I went to everybody because I'm people. always mix it up they're like when they. hear me talking like oh my God Christian. is so adventurous like I'm actually a. huge hypochondriac and I'm always. worried I do the wrong thing so meaning. I put in a lot of effort before I take. something so I went to some of the. biggest neuroscientists in the world. and discussed Mel and everybody just had.

good things to say every really minute. like I'm not only Mel I'm not doing a. marketing session about it but it it's a. good example where I really don't. understand how we could not at least. give people the choice again some people. might not want to do it yeah right they. should have the choice just like they. have the choice to drink alcohol and. smoke cigarettes by the way which is way. worse you might he might have even been. on the show like a good friend is. Professor David not do you know the name. uh where's he from uh from from the UK. and if we can pull it up like he made he.

wrote a whole book that's my favorite. sort of take on how of our. society is in terms of drugs he wrote a. whole book about the risk of drugs the. because the interesting thing is we all. throwing around the word risk without. definition when I sit at dinner and talk. with people about modan for example or. psychedelics then they're zipping a. glass of wine look at me and like oh. this is very risky and then like tell me. what do you mean what is risk and people. don't have an answer for that so what.

David did he defined what actually risk. is he made a real risk score simplified. said can you die when you take it can. you die when you take too much can you. become disabled can you have long-term. damages can you become addicted all of. that so he for the very first time. defined a proper by the way never tested. Undisputed risk score for substances you. can take and then he applied this risk. score to most he forgot sugar but like. most legal and illegal drugs from.

alcohol to heroin to psychedelics so the. outcome is that in a comprehensive risk. assessment the most risk risky riskful. drug of all the number one is alcohol. full stop and by the way it was never. sort of disputed the number two is. heroin wow and then comes everything. else that's per user so they just they a. total societal risk analysis so the. paper is that published in the Lancet.

which is the top medical journal and if. Jamie you want to pull it up it's called. drug harm in the UK a multier criteria. decision analysis published in the Lance. in 2010 by Professor David nut and it. has this amazing chart which I'm looking. at on by the way I like your little logo. It's pretty dope oh thank you um and and. yes on the one side on the most. extreme um with the highest individual. in Social risk as alcohol and heroin and. on the other side psychedelics so by the. way I urge every every listener because.

that's a little bit my passion is like. to make people at least aware and then. you can decide by the way that you drink. alcohol I'm not saying I would ban. alcohol but I think people should be. aware isn't it crazy what they doing tot. it's all about education and awareness. look at the drop between alcohol and. heroin yeah heroin's way less bad for. you than alcohol so by the way but I. want to be careful because that actually. what got him in political trouble. because one magazine wrote which is by. the way the wrong takeaway he said oh. the drug advisor of the UK government.

said uh heroin take heroin on alcohol. whatever heroin is the second worst so. mushrooms so and by way that chart has a. very emotional emotional thing for me. because I was presented that chart in. 2013 and guess it or not I have never. drank alcohol in my whole life really. I'm from Bavaria and I decided when I. was 14 I'm never going to touch it ever. wow uh for societal reasons because I. was gay and village where it was not. cool to be gay and I was like if I get. drunk I'm going to spill it and my life.

is r and then I stayed on that track but. like so friends in 2013 showed me the. chart uh and we talked a lot about it. and the outcome of it was like you. should try mushrooms and I was like. you're completely insane like it's an. schedule one drug whatever and then it. took me a year when I was reading up and. by the way this was a different time. like people didn't talk about. psychedelics and all of that so um I was. reading up all about psychedelics from. 2013 to 14 and then had my first. psychedelic trip in.

2014 which was hands down the single. most meaningful and important thing I've. ever done in my whole life nothing comes. close and I was always a very happy. happy lucky person so I didn't think. it's doing that much to me so I came out. of this trip and there was the point. when I decided that psychedelics in. generally should be medically available. again and then sort of restarted the. whole psychedelic Renaissance well I'm. glad that that's something that we've. been been disgusting forever it's I mean. it's something that got squashed in 1970.

by the sweeping psychedelics act and it. didn't make any sense I think it was the. biggest crime one of the biggest crime. that government back then did because if. you think about it like all the data we. producing it has the potential to heal. really I'm using the word healing with. deliberately um to heal mental health. issues like depression anxiety addiction. so if you think about it that a. government scam in 1917 which was a pure. political scam to discredit the hippie.

Community because they were going. against the Vietnam War um that that. took away one of the most potent groups. of drugs medical drugs for mental health. issues and and you look at our time how. prevalent mental health issues are they. are actually as a whole you could say. the number one problem we have from from. opioid addiction to depression to use. suicidality uh and it's all was taken. away for no reason these drugs as you. saw on the chart and by the way what we. showing with my two companies compass.

and at Tha um they don't they have a. little downside meaning everything has a. downside but like there is no big. downside if taken properly with a. therapist together but the the data. we're producing shows an enormous upside. again to cure and and alleviate mental. health issues and I think one of the. best um paths that Maps has put forth is. helping uh soldiers helping solders with. PTSD and that's been a a great way to.

get through the door because you know. the veteran Community has been dealing. with it for a long time and I think it's. shifted the perspective from a lot of. these people that are more conservative. that would normally think of drugs as. being for losers and bad for society and. they have a different perspective on it. now like you're you're calling it drugs. it's the wrong word no it's a medication. yeah well it's it's really and the ogens. yes you know what they are is when you. when you experience it anybody who. experiences it would not want it to be.

illegal the people that are the problem. is the people that are adamant about it. it being illegal or the ones who aren't. experiencing it it's it's really. ridiculous I agree and you might have. seen that was one of the problem of The. Advisory board meeting of the FDA some. days ago when Maps presented their data. I don't know if you followed it like I. did not unfortunately it was a very sad. moment the it's not a decision yet. because the FDA is going to decide on. August the 11th on MDMA but the advisory. committee hearing which was public.

recommended not to approve MDMA for. posttraumatic stress disorder it was a. big outcry but the reason is also I want. to be a little bit self-critic like for. the Psychedelic industry because I'm a. huge believer like you're sitting next. to maybe the biggest believer in. psychedelics but I also realize that 95%. I would guess because we live in our. bubble you have met a lot of people who. take psychedelics I always very open. like in a country where it's legal I do. my psychedelic therapy sort of Life.

enhancing thing twice a year like I'm. very open with that but like I also. realized we are a bubble like and 95% or. whatever like a vast majority of of. people have not done psychedelics yet. and are unfortunately we can like it or. not and we can blame the Nixon. government or not but like are stuck in. this misinformation so the only way to. this was sort of what some people say. I'm too conservative because they're. like oh my God you taking it like you. should like be more like be liberal. whatever but my decision was the only.

way to move psychedelics back into the. medical world is to do it like I would. do it and we have a biotech portfolio 50. biotech companies like I do it with. every other medical substance I'm. producing clinical data in a very. rigorous very scientific way um to show. and prove it what I personally believe. but we have to prove it and that was a. little bit the weakness of the maps data. because you know Maps was uh a nonprofit. so they never had a huge funding so all.

the data was actually always done with. the minimum effort not because they. wanted it but like was kind of limited. in terms of funding give you an example. like Maps did 200 people in the phase. three pdst study uh in our treatment. resistant depression study with. psilocybin the active ingredient in. magic mushrooms we treated around 800. people why people said that we it's a. lot you need to spend all that money. because cost hundreds of millions but I. was like people will try to poke holes.

in it because it's magic mushrooms yeah. so because I'm dealing with psychedelics. and because I have this personal. conviction but I cannot take my personal. conviction and say oh everybody should. just follow me because like I know I. need to be especially rigorous and need. to do it sort of very scientific very. broad so so yeah long story short I. think psychedelics are coming back yeah. I think we're going to deliver really. good data over the next year years and. uh I also think I I still hope that the. FDA will actually still approve MDMA.

because they can so they don't need to. follow that Advisory Board. recommendation and I think the political. pressure of the veterans is there so I. really hope but if not it's also not. lost because the Advisory Board didn't. push back on MDMA per se they push back. on that specific data set and said okay. there are holes we can poke into it so. yeah nothing lost nothing lost um the. what's going on with marijuana is. interesting in this country because at.

this point 24 state is it 24 24 States. we talked about it yesterday 24 states. have it legal for recreational use it's. literally half the country and then you. have more that have it available for. medical use yet the government still has. it as a schedule one they've made moves. to turn it to a schedule three but as of. this discussion it's a schedule one drug. which is you have 24 you have half the. country literally in states that are. saying you can take it here you can buy. it here you can sell it here we'll tax.

it and the federal government is still. not on board with that and then the move. next would be siloc cybin so some states. have decriminalized that right like. Portland kind of Portland OR Oregon I. think has done a reverse they've they've. made like I think they've hit the. breakes because yes I I want to make a. big sort of plea that psybin or in. general psychedelics and cannabis should. not be mixed together people. instinctively do that because it's kind. of the same history it's it's so-called.

illegal drugs which now becoming in one. way or the other legally but if I look. at it I have a very sort of strong. opinion psychedelics are very strong. substances in a very good way so they. have a very good outcome but if I look. at human history and you had Brian here. murar rescu who I love yeah so if you. look at Brian's work he has shown that. over 10,000 years humans have used. psychedelics in a very actually rigid. setting if you think about the cult of.

deer thean Mysteries or the cult of. Osiris yeah all of these psychedelic. Cults they all actually said you can. just do psychedelics once or twice a. year with a shaman together it was. actually forbidden by death to take the. cukon the drink which we believe was. Urgot the natural version of LSD in the. El Mysteries outside of the very strong. framework of thean mysteries so.

psychedelics were. never consumer drugs they were always. there for enlightenment and for becoming. a better human being but the people. understood that it has to be done in a. certain framework to really unfold their. power okay so that's what I wanted so. that's why I'm really have I mean my. personal opinion is so psychedelic. should be medically used but they should. be limited it's not consumer drugs they. should be limited to be used with a. therapist together who also sort of.

gives you a sort of a full sort of. therapy session around it and that's how. they can unfold I understand I. understand where you're coming from but. here's where I would say about that. first of all two things one you can take. psychedelics in micro does and it's very. effective it's very helpful and to limit. people from having the ability to do. that I don't think makes any sense. there's great benefits to micro doing. psilocybin a lot of people have had. great benefits micro doing LSD like. tremendous benefits and they talk about. it very openly and I think if we are.

going to act under the idea of body. autonomy that falls under that also to. say that marijuana is not a psychedelic. all that would say to me is you haven't. taken enough or you haven't taken. Edibles cuz are you aware of the process. of what happens when you eat um cannabis. you know the difference what do you mean. to compared to psychedelics or no the. difference between THC and 11 hydroxy. metabolite no okay when you eat.

marijuana it doesn't it's it produces a. completely different chemical when it. gets processed by your liver your liver. and it's called 11 hydroxy metabolite 11. hydroxy metabol is five times more. psychoactive than THC and I used to do a. joke about it where I said and it lets. you talk to dolphins because it's very. psychedelic edible pot like in high. doses is extremely psychedelic. especially if you close your eyes like. if you lie somewhere in silent darkness.

and close your eyes on edible marijuana. it it Rivals a lot of different drugs it. Rivals psilocybin a lot of them. especially in the tank that I showed you. guys this psychedelic drugs you know. mushrooms like there's a great history. of people using them in those tanks we. talked about John Lily who would take. ketamine but I know a lot of people who. do high levels of Edibles and they get. in the tank and they have crazy. psychedelic experiences I don't think.

it's that I think that's also part of. the problem with people recreationally. taking Edibles is you really probably. shouldn't do that all the time. especially at high doses because I think. it causes schizophrenia and I I think it. has in some people I think it it causes. fragile Minds to shatter and especially. if you have some underlying conditions. or propensity or family history of. schizophrenia it's probably not a good. idea for you but I don't think we should. just like dismiss marijuana as being.

different than the other drugs it's just. a drug that is more likely to be. consumed micro. doed okay so I just want to be mindful. that we're not mixing so I didn't want. to oppose Mariana I'm just. saying it's something you were talking. about it the same way you you were. opposed to talking about it the way you. talking about mushrooms because. mushrooms are I it's technically a. different mechanism of action so so it's. it might have same or similar feelings.

but I think it's it's a different. mechanism of action if you by the way. pull up the the chart again of of David. nut so the amazing thing with mushrooms. is that the only risk which you saw with. the small pinkish sort of thing is that. you fall down the stairs and hurt. yourself while you take it otherwise. psybin has no toxicity cannabis has yeah. as you said like it could Tri yeah but. that that's Canabis is way less than Al. want to say it's just I think but I know. people that have blown their brains out.

like with psilocybin and with LSD as. well I cannot imagine like we have a. whole team which is following up that. sentence if somebody says that and. literally for like since when are we. doing that since 2018 every single. person we could find online in chat. boards whatever whom we contacted who. said oh I have any side effects our. first question is always what have you. taken and 100% of the people who had. negative things said oh oh I've taken. mushrooms and I drank a lot of alcohol I. took a lot of cocaine can already stop.

there never mix these things because we. don't know what I'm arguing for by the. way the same going back to micro doing. we need to find or we need to create the. scientific basis for all of that there. will never be a scientific study which. tells you you can happily mix alcohol. pying and cannabis I really don't know. what's happening in your brain yeah so. don't do it but I can give you a lot of. studies what is happening Standalone. when you take cocy I can give you a lot. of studies what is happening when you. take cannabis yeah so I always tell.

people why mix that is one of my first. recommendations because I'm remember I'm. a hypochondriac I just want to do things. what I really know what's happening in. my body because life is awesome I think. I'm very okay up there I'm happy like. why should I risk it so I so micro doing. is my favorite example to um push back a. bit because you said it actually you. said they are people who say they were. helped by micro doing yeah that is not.

how science works because like I can. give you a lot of people who have one. experience but like science is take. thousand of them and see if there is a. real statistic significance in whatever. we want to prove there are not from us. because I think micro doing will always. be not a commercial Endeavor but there. are a few really good studies from I. don't want to say you can look at I. think it was the University of of. Chicago but I don't know about micro. doing and they could not reproduce the.

positive factors individual people were. saying on a large scale second um what. positive factors were they searching for. increasing concentration increasing. creativity like all sort of the. anecdotal evidence did they try skills. games study of LSD mic microdosing. doesn't show a therapeutic. effect yeah but who wrote look how's. this performed what I'm saying is like. we need more work I'm just. saying I want I want to hang out with.

these people but I give you the positive. I give you the positive anything you. going to like but like what I'm saying. is like by the way think about again. Brian's work people never micro do. psychedelics people macro do. psychedelics right but it doesn't mean. that there's not a benefit to micro. doing yeah but I would say micro do do. your one trip a year you get all the. benefits by the way because there we. know you get neuroplasticity there we. know you get all the positive effects. out of it but second what you need to be. just mindful is like there was a study. some days ago um if we can pull it up if.

you look uh micro doing and hard so the. all these psychedelic stock uh at the. five h2a receptor but also have an. effect on your heart so hopefully I'm. I'm not using the technically right. terms but I always describe it to my. friends is like psychedelics are a. little bit poking your heart so if you. do that once a year we've shown it zero. problem zero we don't know what.

psychedelics micro doing does to Your. Heart Right but isn't the poking the. heart effect due to the large doses of. stunning experiences that you're having. when you're really tripping on the we. don't know we don't know don't have the. and the only thing I'm putting out there. is that we everything I'm saying is like. what is really important and I'm saying. that as as really like one of the most. passionate people about psychedelic. that we cannot or we shouldn't abandon.

the um M chocolate bars no stop that is. I know that study that study is about um. a polluted chocolate bar which is. another thing there was a brand which. put in stuff which is not what they say. micro do are chocolate bar well which is. also a really important point about all. drug use right it's a wonderful book by. Professor Carl Hart from Columbia. University drug use for grownups yeah we. were talking about them yesterday yeah. and it's like you know America's drug. problem is a dosage and adulteration.

problem right and so we want to think. about the issues that we have at hand in. our society it is almost always about. adulteration like no one goes out to. seek out fentanyl right right it's. adulterated into other products and in. the correct dosage and with high quality. products in most circumstances most. products can be used safely. um the the I swear there was something.

about psych psoc and micro doing and. skills the LSD thing it says that they. were not told what drug they were on and. then here's the result said no. performance on cognitive test that's for. micro doing yeah this is the micro doing. either during drug sessions or did they. use uh like some sort of IQ test puzzles. would they do says cognitive test I mean. yeah I'm just wondering what they did I. wondering what they did for cognitive. test there were also some. neurobiological reasons to Su LSD might.

might improve mood because LSD acts. through serotonin receptors where. traditional anti-depressants are known. to. act um the main thing I'm saying is. about so micros could be the only plea I. make is like let's treat psychedelics. with the same sort of rigorous. scientific lens like we treat anything. else by the way that's my whole like how. I marry my libertarian view and sort of. my scientific view is let's just prove. things science is awesome like we have. learned over the last hundreds of years.

how to prove things or dismiss things. let's prove it and that's by the way how. we we I mean here in the room because we. all love s Alex like how we convince the. 95% how we convince those people who. were sitting on the advisory panel and. said no to MD may it was very clear when. they were talking that none of them had. tried it so but the answer can't be come. on try MDMA and then please approve it. the answer must be I I put in front of. you a data set where it doesn't matter. that it's called MDMA and it doesn't.

matter that it has a history because the. data speaks for itself right yeah it's. just it's body autonomy is what we're. really talking about once we have proven. it exactly but you want body autonomy. yes what you want to have people the. data to decide on body autonomy sure so. I always make the point that individuals. with free and informed consents adults. should be able to make decisions for. themselves but that free and informed. form consent comes from data and like a. good example I assume you've used. creatine at some point in your life just.

like virtually all athletes have when. creatine was first came out of the scene. after the 1992 Barcelona Olympics like. you should read the headlines it was. like new super steroid infecting our. sports like headline from The. Independent Newspaper creatine is. cheating no matter how you look at it. what year was this 1992 wow right now we. take it all now you yeah I I take. gummies I take creatine gummies every. day yeah and and and it was banned in. the Irish and French rugby federations.

it it was seen as um cheating it was it. worse than cheating it was morally. reprehensible like think of the children. you might encourage children to use. creatine wow and and the headlines were. just unbelievable that's crazy that was. just 30 plus years ago yeah nuts and and. thankfully creatine didn't fall into the. black Zone like steroids or psychedelics. right where moralizing got in the way of.

scientific data now let's talk about the. enhanced games in terms of long-term. plans like how are you guys funded and. how long can you stay open like if do. you have a long-term strategy yes we've. raised millions of dollars in the. world's top venture capitalist Christian. included Peter teal BAGI. shavasan and let's you know we're. Reinventing the Olympic Games not just. in terms of adding uh performance.

enhancements adding payments to athlete. but we're also removing the core waste. so the core problem of the Olympics is. that they built a dozen stadiums and. then they throw them away after two. weeks it is literally the most. financially wasteful exercise in human. history you know. um you know between 30 and hundred. billion doar a cost to put on an Olympic. games and it is just disastrous for the. host City so so by reducing the number. of sports and focusing on the ones that. have the highest television and social.

media impact we can have the very very. low infrastructural cost and operate the. whole thing. profitably right but how do you have a. plan as to like how long to do it oh. this is a century long project for us so. so it's not a popup event like it's. going to be forever I understand but. what if it's not successful like what if. the first one comes out of the gate like. how are you going to make the money are. you going to use sponsorships are you. going going to charge pay-per-view how. are you going to do it you going to sell. it to a network so uh number one we will.

raise enough equity Capital so that we. can run the games for at least three. years without any uh media rights. corporate sponsorship or ticket sales of. course we will grab all those Revenue. drivers and that will make us a. profitable Endeavor but fundamentally we. have enough equity Capital to make sure. this thing really works and is delivered. for a long period of time so for three. years you can just until the brakes fall. off even if we don't so but what I can. tell you what I was actually a little. bit surprised positively is like we got.

inbounded by big Brands we were actually. calculating in the early days we said ah. it's going to be. controversial um we don't think a big. whatever outdoor brand or whatever Big. sportsware Brand will sponsor out in the. first year so we really as Aon said we. planned we're going to be we are Venture. funded and we can do it three years. without those major revenues which we. obviously someone want to have but then. surprisingly Major Brands inbounded us.

and said can we work with you early. which again showed us like we sort of. Hit the sight Guist a bit uh with the. thing yeah so in terms of brand. sponsorship so Nike their core mythology. is that the fastest people in the world. wear their shoes I like how you say. their core mythology yeah the core. mythology right and then this is very. simple eventually the fastest people in. the world will be at the enhanced game. and then and if and if they're not. wearing Nike shoes that can undermind.

that hundred billion. brand and so if you're a challenger shoe. company out there you say I'm sponsor. this enhanced games thing right we can. capture Nike's core Mo a brand is just a. myth H it's an interesting way to phrase. it a core. mythology now when you guys when when is. going to be the first enhanced games at. the. we're targeting for the end of. 2025 and do you know where you going to.

do it so this is a question journalists. always ask me you need to do it at the. sphere uh is the sphere is uh uh come on. yeah not an uneducated gift not an. uneducated guest oh really I like it so. the journalists always ask well where is. the enhanced games going to be because. they think of it like the Olympic Games. they think oh you need a host City where. you have 12 stadiums and there are very. few cities like that. but we live in the era of television and. social media we don't need all of our.

infrastructure in the same place the. swimming could be in Sydney the track. and field could be in Los Angeles the. weightlifting could be in Las Vegas. right interesting and all united through. the magic of Television therefore we are. not dependent on infrastructure in one. city we're not dep dependent on having. 10,000 hotel rooms available and this is. really the technological Innovation that. we're bringing to the design of the. Olympic Games was like why do the. Olympics need to be in one city right.

why does the Paris Metro System need to. be upgraded for just two weeks at the. cost of billions and billions of dollars. no we live in a world where 99.9% of. sports is consumed either on television. or on our phones has the Olympics have. they responded to you guys yes what did. they say I can't wait to hear this oh uh. so so uh you know they it's it's. interesting so publicly they don't like.

us obviously um but uh the fact that we. are paying the athletes has really. changed the Dynamics of Olympic sports. so Lord Sebastian Co who is the. president of world Athletics came out. and said that Athletics will pay. $50,000 for gold medal at the Paris. Olympics and read the coverage. journalists all attribute this because. of the pressure we put on because we're. offering payment for athletes obviously. we're offering a million for a gold. medal offering 50 Grand so gold medals. the enhanced games are a million. breaking a world record is an additional.

million no no no the world records are. uh a million and the uh you know. there'll be base compensation negotiated. with each athlete probably around 100. Grand but you just said gold medals a. million no no no award record is a. million at the enhanced games a gold. medal in track and field at the Olympics. is 50,000 right you you I think I think. pretty sure you said it you I think you. just scrambled it um so so what is first. place in like box in uh to be determined. uh determined figure out so you're going. to negotiate it with different athletes.

yeah it depends you know if someone has. a big social media following someone's. famous yeah yeah and and LeBron wants to. play basketball for you guys exactly. exactly so um and some sports are uh. more compelling uh because of of larger. viewership or that they. have um you know multiple disciplines so. are you planning do you have a plan as. to how to stream it are you guys going. to do YouTube are you gonna have your. own platform so we have been approached.

by every major broadcaster in the world. uh and and and the overarching message. is they're like this is going to be. exciting television so the three most. watched sports event in the world number. one is the FIFA World Cup final number. two is the UEFA Champions League final. and number three is the Olympic 100. meter final and if you think about it. the first enhanced Games should be a lot. more interesting than an Olympic 100. meter. final right well it's it's definitely I.

mean if you guys can really come out of. the gate guns blazing and put on a. tremendous show and Captivate people I. think you're in yeah and you know that's. why we've raised millions and millions. of dollars from the world's top Venture. Capital funds so we can deliver an. amazing broadcast experience um recruit. the best athletes and ensure that you. know we make a television package that's. really really compelling um and for the. networks they they want to buy a five 10.

year deal because they're effectively. taking a bad the Olympic television. rights are worth four billion per games. wow and and we live in the era of peak. television rights right now you know. like Amazon ABC DNT they're all you know. bidding for the NBA rights and you know. two NBA games on Christmas Day are worth. a billion. dollars right and and and this is an. absolute sweet spot right and you see. this with college football and college. basketball the N rights you know 18year. olds in college are now driving.

Lamborghinis yet Olympic athletes have. been so screwed financially yeah um and. that we're just going to deliver a. better economic system uh that is a more. compelling television package because of. enhancements and then. ultimately uh television rights are. about what commercials can be sold and. traditional Sports markets three things. processed food food alcohol and gambling. yet the enhanced games opens up.

broadcast Partnerships um commercial. sponsorships in a whole new way because. we present a scientifically and. technologically optimistic view of the. world right we believe that science. helps us overcome our limits and what. Pharma company wouldn't want to be. putting ads against. that it's good well I mean it's really. interesting because if it does take off. it might legitimately change the way. Pharma companies interface with these.

particular substances if they realize. they're going to be extremely popular. once they see how well people do. especially if you get athletes that are. in their 30s that may be washed out of. MMA organizations and they start. competing at an elite level again if you. start seeing people breaking the world. records and. sprinting they might go hey let should. revisit this yeah and and and think. about it like um the whole world is was. talking about artificial intelligence. the total value of all the generative AI. startups including open AI is $200.

billion OIC and the jp1 drugs have added. $1 trillion dollar to the market. capitalization of Nova Nordisk and Eli. Lily so one enhancement drug is worth 5x. all of artificial intelligence and it's. a dumb one it's but it's a it's a. progress by the way I use that always as. a the same example like uh I think. farmer and that's my core industry by. and farmer is going through a. fundamental change because of gp1s.

because they realized that enhancement. they're not using that word but they all. thinking about it because like if you. look by the way the data so you know. like take monjaro they are technically. not I'm taking it so but they are not. yeah but they're not why you taking it. because it's outsourced discipline. that's it yeah it's like I eating a. little bit less I don't need to think. about it that much yeah U because of all. the other stuff but but the consequences. the negative side effects I I've had.

good friends that have had very bad side. effects gastrointestinal issues I don't. have it by the way that is again my. answer is always like everything has. side effects the coffee you just gave me. has side effects the diet coke the. whatever actually always come back. psychedelics have made the least like. but like we need it's all about an. educated so I can look at OIC yeah there. is a whole list of side effects and I. can look at myself by the way I'm also. is very important to measure yourself. like from the the basic stuff like have.

an Ur what but that's already more. complicated but like or more advanced. but like take an Ur ring like I do a. blood test every two weeks because I'm. obviously at the moment going through. enhancement process and because people. react different on different stuff like. there might be people who say look I. don't like OIC then don't take it or. like it they have so but like it worked. for me which is great so but it's. Outsource discipline but I'm not the. person which it was made for because it. was obviously originally made for. diabetes and then for clinically obese.

people and and you know that asmic and. the gp1s are prescribed in the United. States off label 83% of the time yeah so. so 83% of all people don't take it for. the original use they take it for vanity. whatsoever and that really changed the. way farmer CEOs are looking at. medications it's exactly coming back to. what what Aeron said it's we we are in. these in these side Guist shift where. suddenly the whole industry looks at.

Health by the way I think looks at. Health how we should look at Health not. like how we just give people something. once the damage is there but how we can. keep and keep people more healthy for. longer and help them to enhance. themselves if they want to yes I. couldn't agree more yeah and I come from. The View that aging is a disease that we. should be able to treat cure and. eventually solve and and but that's not. what medicine is about so legally aging. is not a disease so a doctor cannot.

prescribe you. medication uh against the clinical. indicator of Aging aging is a normal. biological process and is just accepted. by the field of medicine and it wasn't. until 1997 that osteoporosis was. considered a disease it was prior to. that just considered a natural part of. the aging process and so I think we need. a revolution here where we say medicine. is not about making just the sick people.

less sick it's about fundamentally. improving the quality of all human life. so that we can become superum and at the. time in which you know we live an era of. artificial intelligence where the. machines are upgrading we need to. upgrade our own biology to be. competitive well I think then in that. case I mean especially looking at OIC. and these these drugs that are used off. label the fact that they're they're. incredibly profitable and the fact that. they are being used mostly for people.

that just want to lose some weight look. better that's really probably a good. sign for the future of how these. substances are are at least allowed to. be used and and and at the first enhan. games athletes will break World Records. you think so I think so and I'll I'll. park that up for a second but the when. when that happens everyone's going to. say what is he on and how do I get it. yeah because it's no longer going to be.

scary it's no longer going to be unknown. right it's like if Lance Armstrong after. coming back from cancer and winning the. tour to France went out and said you. know what I'd like to thank my sponsor. EPO EPO made it possible for me to go. from being a cancer patient to the best. cyclist in the world everyone in the. world would go talk to their doctor. about EPO yeah right but he didn't do. that no he didn't no also everybody. shouldn't be on EPO no not every a. dangerous one no but but talk to your. doctor about it talk to your doctor and.

and so why will will records get broken. at the enhanced games it's actually. pretty simple. okay uh according to my scientific team. they believe that enhancements will add. about 5% to the performance of any. athlete however most of the existing. world records are enhanced in some way. or another the same BS world record Etc. might be and so it's actually like kind. of hard but actually doing a full open. enhancement that's not trying to beat. the drug test probably has about.

5% but it also goes back to the. economics of being an Olympic Athlete. most Olympians are stacking boxes at. Home Depot or flipping burgers at. McDonald's so by being able to pay the. athletes and create a fair economic. Arrangement allows them to focus on. their training right and then a third. dimension it's actually a really simple. one have you ever been to the have you. ever been to the Olympics no okay go to. the athletes Village it's a dump right. they had these like cardboard beds these. paper thin walls it's noisy everyone's. having sex all the time if you just put.

up the athletes at the Four Seasons give. them a nice bed to sleep in they'll be. more focused they'll have a good night's. sleep before before the Big Race and. they'll perform better interesting so I. didn't know that so they make the. athletes day at the athletes Village and. it's just real loud and crazy and. they're partying yeah that's right. because the vast majority of athletes. who go to the Olympics have no chance of. medling right they're for the they're. just they they for the party. and you have all these beautiful young. people what do you think's going to. happen right they're all athletes. they're all horny as hell they did they.

did literally oppress release some days. ago where they said they're just going. to do single bads in order to avoid. people having sex that was like whenever. in university life has a single bad. avoided that people have sex it was one. of the most dumbest ideas like hilarious. that's just that's like just say no. that's such a dumb idea single people. have sex in the woods the are you. talking about Paris Olympics lifts. intimacy ban for athletes and is. stocking up on 300,000 condoms they went.

the other way no there was there was. then two conflicting news the other one. was more hilarious with the single bed. realized it's a stupid idea but and then. there were all these headlines I saw. some days ago that uh a before. Sports is actually increasing your. testosterone really so yes Google it. like I was like why specifically a. I don't know but I was like I. take it I take it it's like it's good. wait giving getting getting okay but why. would that I don't understand why that. particular kind of sex would do it I ran.

with it I was like I like the I like I. shut the laptop when I read a good. headline exactly take it let's not be. too scientific on that. one yeah why around made a. screenshot using it in every day yeah. that's it start arguing so now um we. have uh what how many sports so five. sports five sports so track swimming. combat weightlifting gymnastics those.

are the five core sports that we've. identified that have the highest. television and social media impact with. the lowest infrastructural cost we don't. need to build specialist stadiums so you. know like I love Vel drum cycling it's a. sport that I did myself you need to. build a $300 million facility for it and. there's what is vome cycling uh track. cycling oh it's like around yeah that. like you know a few thousand people in. the whole world participate in it's a. pretty pretty pretty Niche sport most. sports at the Olympic Games the total. number of SE professional. semi-professional participants is very.

small um so you know things like rock. climbing skateboard you there aren't. huge participation numbers for these. things so people going to be heartbroken. that synchronized swimming is out yeah. har you know curling Bob SLE you know. curling is one of the silliest ones of. all time yeah and curling is. participating by less than a thousand. people. worldwide interesting question though. would if people on psychedelics are. would be better at synchronized swimming. because it's like o right synchronized.

BR you in this exactly yeah interesting. but we we save that for later are you. familiar with beta blockers yes so do. you know that classical musicians use. beta blockers about 75% of professional. orchestral musicians have used beta. blockers no right so beta blockers are a. Bann substance under the world. anti-doping code they would not be. allowed to compete at the Olympic Games. but it's used on mass by professional. orchestral musicians that's interesting.

wonder why professional Orchestra. musicians would find that helpful it. allows them to to focus and I think the. hand gets more stable and it's my guess. I'm not a musician but interesting. because I wouldn't think that they would. be especially in a large group of them. they've been working together they. practice I wouldn't think they'd be that. anxious I don't know have you ever. performed on stage at Carnegie Hall I. performed on stage in Mass Square Garden. W. yeah I mean once you're out there you're.

out there musicians use beta blockers as. performance enabling. drugs video game players also oh that. makes sense yeah calm the down in a. stressful. situation yeah some yeah interesting I. know they're illegal in archery events. yeah they test for them in archery. events and and and here we go you know. there's a the concert Master of the. Chattanooga Orchestra right there she's. openly talking about using interesting a. band performance enhancing drug yeah I.

want to try. them that's how it works that's how it. works you read an article you're like hm. what's the side effect of beta blockers. after consultation with your doctor. that's the talk to my doctor doctor. Feelgood hey. buddy hook me up with some beta I'm. gonna go do something dangerous to see. how I feel and have an unadulterated. Supply you need good quality. manufacturing from the pharmacy because. that's what when you take I mean this is. the conversation that I had yesterday I. had Freeway Ricky Ross on the podcast. yesterday I don't know if you know who.

he is but he was a drug dealer that was. illiterate that was at one point in time. selling as much as $3 million worth of. cocaine in a day and he was supplying it. was all done through the CIA allegedly. to supply uh the contas versus the. sandinistas in Nicaragua in the 1980s he. went to jail for it learned how to read. in jail became a lawyer figured out his. case was tried and prosecuted wrong got. off wow yeah incredible guy and uh you.

know we talked. about the problem is you're never going. to get away from the the demand the. demand in the United States is immense. so you're fueling drug empires in Mexico. so you're fueling illegal organized. crime because you won't come to terms. with the fact that body autonomy. and the the rights of an individual to. choose to do whatever they want. especially in light of what is legal.

that is incredibly damaging like alcohol. and that if you just made it. legal I mean you would have a real. problem you'd have a lot of people. getting addicted you have a lot of. people trying it that wouldn't try it. but eventually the dust would settle and. the concept would be you would have to. mitigate all these potential future. problems with counseling with treatment. and with education but you would. severely limit the amount of adulterated.

drugs M you would you would change a lot. of that if you made sure that the supply. was was clean and you're getting it from. pharmaceutical drug companies and. pharmaceutical drug companies could. profit off of it and you would just have. a percentage of that profit that would. tax tax tax tax the externality and. exactly and and in that discussion about. um the social externality and addictive. substances you know we never talk about. the two most addictive substances. processed food and sugar right which.

have done so much damage to our society. and do you know who team USA's top. Olympic sponsors are Kelloggs McDonald's. and Coca-Cola oh okay I thought it was. weedies. yeah read the read the social history of. the Olympic movement and of McDonald's. and Coca-Cola both of them built their. brands on Sports Marketing right selling. so ironic the the most dangerous most. addictive most damaging drug ever.

developed to. children it's funny that we don't look. at it that way isn't it also I always. say like when you when you remember the. chart we looked at where heroin is worse. sorry alcohol is worse than heroin next. time you go to an airport and you see. all these shops which say alcohol and. tobacco or whatever just think for a. second it would say heroin how messed up. is that and like and it's not just for. adults like it's also children like we. just bringing them up in the world where. like the most dangerous substances are.

stuffed into them and like marketed to. them and whatever I think it's really. up it is up yeah we're. we're very silly there's a lot of things. that we've got wrong and there's a lot. of perceptions that people have that are. just locked into their minds and they. don't want to move on these ideas at all. they they don't want to readjust with. new data they don't want to change their. their feelings about things how how do. you think. is the best way to change perceptions. conversations over a long periods of.

time it's not a quick fix nothing's. going to fix nothing's going to change. things but young people coming up and I. think a lot of podcasts are doing that. because these conversations are. available for the first time and not. just available but available to millions. and millions of people in a way that you. know it used to be mainstream media was. and these conversations get shared and. then people they put Clips on Instagram. and YouTube and they start passing them. around and people listen more and then.

they you know I used to think this but. now that and the more conversations you. have with intelligent educated people. that really understand what's going on. and can give you the data and give it. and explain it in a logical way you. realize well this is an intelligent. person that has an informed perspective. on this and it'll allow people to just. sort of. re-evaluate and I think. faith in institutions is at an all-time. low and faith in institutions that give. out Health advice is at an all-time low.

because we now know about the sugar. industry that bribed uh scientists in. order to lie about the dangers of. saturated fat we know about drug. companies that lie about the side. effects of their drugs and high data we. know about all that now so we're a. little. less likely to believe the mainstream. narrative on a lot of things that we. just accepted as facts. that's right and I think we live in this. era of disruption and social media is. such a powerful force and both positive.

and negative ways and two years ago it. was basically impossible for athletes to. talk about performance enhancing drugs. yeah right like you were just be. cancelled. immediately and you know we launched and. you know started to have a conversation. and pulled the Overton window open and. now so many eminent scientists and. doctors come and say you know if you. actually look at the data look at. Professor nut study it's not that. dangerous yeah it's worth having a. conversation about how will this affect. our society how will this you know build.

a better future right and this is only. possible because of the era of. information distribution which we have. which is not guarded by traditional. media institutions right but way you. might have missed it but like um. anabolic steroids were also on the chart. of not and it's almost where. psychedelics are like very low risk it's. like can you put that chart up again. Jamie please. the one of the things that was. interesting in that chart is just. like the what I would like to know like.

percentage of people who use these. things like what kind of data scroll up. right there what first of all what is. that one at the bottom. Bine I always borine yeah I always want. to look it up and did um how many people. are using that we can look it up. together what is that Stu there it is uh. synthetic opioid oh interesting used to. treat pain and opioid use disorders okay. so is from the poppy FL okay.

interesting okay clear an FDA approved. substance by that I also saw a methadone. was on that which I thought was. interesting oh equally as effective as. moderate doses of methadone however. because. buprenorphine is unlikely to be as. effective as more optimal dose methodone. it may not be the treat of choice for. patients with high levels of physical. dependency okay so it's to treat people. that are physically dependent was katum.

on that list no interesting C is which. is we did a lot of research on Katon. yeah butane butane like lighters people. are sniffing lighters cannabis is in. there Jesus Christ cannabis is really. high it's not without risk yeah but. lower than what kind of risk you got in. there here's the risk and then like. they're weighted based off I'm guessing. that drug spe mortality let me see. scroll up again so I can see what it. says for drugs is there anything in. cannabis you have to go by the color and. then the size of the thing there's no.

drug specific mortality okay. International Dam oh that's I like how. it's all colorcoded yeah so the way the. survey works alol is that it looks at. the overall harm and it's broken up into. two sections one to the user and that's. physical psychological and social and. and to others the physical and. psychological and the social damage. caused so drug rated mortality drug. specific damage they're all colorcoded.

injury crime I like see crime and weed. oh that's connected is that just people. that are high that do things it's that. gr box right here yeah but they're like. what does that mean like did you test. them were they High when they committed. the crime or are they just testing. positive for marijuana which stays in. your systems for weeks no no no no no. it's it's really like do you commit a. crime I guess to get it or is it is it. some crime associated with taking it. Oh I thought they me are you doing. crimes while you're on it no no no it's. like are you robbing a a gas station to.

pay for your cannabis addiction clearly. no one is robbing a gas station to pay. for their an a lot of criminals take. marijuana it's like it's funny it's I. don't know if you could like put that in. that that same thing it's interesting. cocaine and tobacco are like neck and. neck and. then amphetamines are below that which. is interesting not a lot below but yes. it's below tobacco by three points yeah. but cannabis is only below amphetamines.

by three points and and just emphasize. that this is a really highquality. credible study published in the Lancet. which is one one of the top medical. journals in the entire world very very. interesting. study we need more of that y you know I. mean we need to be informed and we we. need data and I I firmly believe in. personal autonomy and I just think again. a lot I just don't think adults should. be able to tell other adults what to do. and not to do if they're informed if. they're educated if they know what.

they're doing you should be able to do. whatever you want to do just like you. can go bull riding I don't encourage you. to go bull riding but if you want to go. bull riding you're allowed to go bull. riding so tell me why you can go bull. riding but you can't smoke a joint it. makes zero sense well I I think about. this in the context of space exploration. right going into space has a one in a 19. chance of fatality Jesus Jamie we're not. going on that space not yet yet it's. going to be better that let go. that one and 19 one and 19 5% yeah. that but but does that mean we% chance.

of going to space if we don't yeah but. like you know think about the Apollo. program Apollo one burnt down on the the. launch pad kill three astronauts did we. stop the Apollo program should we have. not gone to the Moon right and what we. have lost in our contemporary Society in. so many ways is the propensity to take. risk thoughtful intelligent positive. risk and this has always been something. that I've been so deeply passionate. about is the people who succeed in life.

the people who push Society to a new. level the people who improve themselves. their families and their communities are. willing to take positive risk yet our. society is so dominated by a safetyism. and safety is culture that we're. increasingly unwilling to take any risk. we're also we we've as we've highlighted. our desire for safety is not it's not. accurate we're not like really targeting. the things that are actually dangerous. for us we're not being honest about it. but what we know about food and what we.

know about certain certain substances. that people are using and taking in. their food and just the the what happens. when you have a bad diet it's like one. of the primary factors for all cause. mortality is a shitty diet yeah. absolutely arguably the number one. factor with diet and exercise right and. and and and you know I I live in London. and just coming here to the United. States and just. consuming the available food makes me. feel ill right what are you. consuming you can eat good here too dude.

you can eat good here yeah it's not. that's I don't think you can blame it on. America that you came over here and ate. McDonald's oh well you know just the the. prevalence of sugar in American food you. look at a like a Chobani yogurt in you. just buy in the grocery store and Whole. Foods in London versus in in New York. the one in New York has more sugar in it. exact we want it to be delicious yeah w. just don't eat it every day man the the. the idea is I look I'm all for all those.

things existing I I don't like the. marketing I don't like the marketing for. kids like the the thing drives me crazy. is like uh sugary cereals which when I. was a child we just thought gave you. cavities we didn't know it was going to. up your health no one knew that. sugary C cereals were actually really. bad for you but I like them I don't take. them I don't eat them but if you know I. don't think you should stop someone from. having Captain Crunch they want to have. it f delicious I I don't think we should. stop anyone just like I don't think you. should stop someone from having TI massu.

at a restaurant yeah I but I think it's. about accurate disclosure yes right and. and and and informed disclosure like the. the food pyramid right clearly written. by special interest yeah right and and. guided you know dietary decisions for. Americans for 50 years in completely the. wrong direction yes and to many people. to this day it's still gospel and which. it's really crazy it's very bizarre how. few people actually know how you should.

really eat and what is actually bad for. you and just the ubiquitous use of seed. oils like seed oils are crazy MH. the fact that that's not something that. someone's clamoring to get off the. shelves you know they don't put the. brakes on that industry well you know my. theory of social change is very simple. change only happens when someone puts a. suit on and goes to work every day. trying to solve a problem. until I decided to rent a little office. in West London hire a few people and say. you know we're going to normalize.

performance enhancement we're going to. celebrate performance enhancements there. was no one dedicated full-time to doing. it I doubt that there's anyone dedicated. full-time in a really professional. manner to stopping seed oils well. there's a giant industry that's. profiting off of them that would get in. the way of that I'm sure but now we. would need a business model I think. that's the power of capitalism we're not. doing it as an activist like we're doing. it because we believe believe we're. going to build a multibillion dollar. sports franchise with the enhanced games. but additionally I think we're going to.

positively influence Society so we would. need to find a business model where a. team could say. bu whatever educating a c dolls like. people would make money that's always. the hard thing I I deeply believe like. capitalism and for-profit models are the. best driver for positive change. absolutely or neutrally said they're the. best driver for change unfortunately. sometimes also operations did negative. change yeah but like we can combat it. with positive change also as long as.

people have access to accurate. information the problem is when. capitalism also works to try to subvert. accurate information and try to distort. things in order to increase their. profits which is also it's a giant issue. but today I think that's more difficult. to do than ever before just because of. New Media just because people have the. internet they have access to information. as long as that information is not being. curated which is also a problem you know. it's a problem what is allowed and not. allowed to be distributed and I think. that's why the podcasting industry is.

actually so powerful as compared to. consuming written content which is so. easily manipulatable and and and doesn't. have that trust Dimension you know as I. I read the New York Times I don't. actually think about the person who. wrote the article right versus I listen. to a podcast and say oh I know Joe I. listen to him every day I've built an. emotional relationship with the. presenter and if they do something to. break that trust I'm not going to tune. in again right right versus the New York.

Times can they Li all the time they can. lie you still go well what the is. going on in the world the New York Times. will sort of tell me yeah with a Twist. and you just come back time and time. again and and but some when you won't. come back that's I think it's changing. are you guys how are you going to deal. with transgender. athletes great. question I think that the. reality is there are I I have not yet um. engaged with a transgender athlete who.

has the potential to break a world. record if such a in a female sport in a. female Sport and I I if there is such a. person who wishes to compete at the. enhanced games please write to me and. I'm going to set up a meeting with every. athlete you propose to compete against. and create a fair and a balanced. framework but is it fair and balanced if. you're allowing a biological male ever. to compete with biological feemale. females especially in light of the. enhanced games proposal of allowing. people to take performance-enhancing.

drugs because because you'd have to make. a very clear definition of like what is. a transitioned athlete like how long. would you have to wait and what are they. allowed to take if you're going to limit. a biological male's ability to take. testosterone or force them to take some. sort of an uh testosterone blocker in. order to achieve a certain requirement. that kind of goes against the ethics or. the ethos of this enhanced games in the.

first place well so I think you're. actually uh viewing it in in the inverse. way that I would because the actual. question to ask is so and I'm gay myself. so let me use my language very precisely. here because I know it really matters to. member of the transgender. Community the standard argument is that. a um a person born a man who transitions. to being a. woman particularly after puberty has an. insurmountable biological advantage over.

a natural born woman and I accept that. argument however Sports you me Sports. yeah and and what has yet to be proven. is does an enhanced woman have an. ability to compete on a Level Playing. Field with a biological male yeah that. is also allowed to enhance themselves a. biological male that's. transgender so you're taking a. biological male for lack of a bit of.

term lack of being politically correct. and you're allowing them compete with. biological women and you're allowing. them to take performance-enhancing drugs. then you're allowing a man to compete. against a woman like full stop yeah. that's what it is then why not just say. you have to be biologically female to. compete in the female division. biologically male could be in the male. division yeah so one one version that. one of our investors has proposed to us. is that we we have a xx and an XY. category right and say because the. reality about gender transition at the.

moment it's still very not even beta. stage technology it's Alpha stage. technology it doesn't really change. anyone on a chromosomal level it changes. people on a surface level and so let's. uh assign athletes based on chromosomal. status right without having the labels. of male and female which are very. precious to some people or man and woman. and that language has been manipulated. by both sides politically and just say. it's actually a scientific question are. you XX or are you XY right well that.

would work I mean you could do that with. everything no I think it's like but one. other I I also think that's a good idea. like but also like it's interesting I. think the point Aon wanted to make. earlier is that in all the more than. thousand people we had there was no. person identifying as transgender so I. also think that it might be a little bit. the whole headlines blown out of. proportion on a very professional level. yes there are there are some activists. on both sides who I think try to make a.

point almost in sports but these are not. the people who compete on an Olympic. level right so we also think for us it. might not even be a big issue that's why. Aon was saying like we really welcome a. discussion and that's the great thing of. inventing a new sports we can think. about things with a very clean slate. without any Prejudice in one or the. other direction yeah so that's why if. somebody is really feeling or is if. somebody is transgender and really is on. a level though they. can compete in the enhanced game which.

is an Olympic level talk to us and we. want to hear that perspective and we. want to sort of but like hasn't happened. yet yeah and then we already thinking. about you're still dealing with a. biological male that you're allowing to. enhance themselves so they can perform. to the highest level of their ability. physically so if you're taking a. biological male who's transitioned to. being a woman but now you're allowing. them to take EPO testosterone you know. fill in the blanks igf-1 whatever you're. going to give them you're you're not.

that's a biological male full stop I'm. not I'm not push only thing I'm saying. is like how many of those description. you just had are in the really high. level Olympian Community I just thinking. it's it's much less. Thomas do as Leah Thomas in world record. contention I don't believe so well as a. woman and I don't think as a man no as a. woman as a woman or as a man not a man. not even close as a man but as a woman. yes was the number one in the country.

Jamie do you want to pull up Le thas one. point in time has won major. events I don't believe Leah Thomas is. close to world record contention okay. but correct me if I'm wrong James. College athlete NCAA NCAA division. women's events has one women's events. but right now I want you to imagine Le. Thomas on testosterone. EPO all sorts of performance-enhancing. substances and this is where peptides.

and then allowing this person to compete. as a woman yeah but so does her. competition yeah but it's not a. biological man the competitions are. biological females and you would have to. change the structure of their body the. hip structure you'd have to change the. size of their lungs the size of their. heart different cardiovascular capacity. everything is different and especially. if you're allowing leot Tom the whole. idea about a transgender athlete. competing with biological females is. that they're supposed to be it's. supposed to be even because this person.

is on testosterone blockers and on. estrogen and they've lost all their. muscle mass and they're basically a. woman this is the argument that the. activists use yeah but the problem with. that is the structure of the body is. different reaction time is different. lung capacity is different heart size is. different there's a giant difference. between males to females when it comes. to athletic performance and and I think. that's why the xxxy categorization yes. makes it a lot simpler and is a. resolution to the issue but this is. where the entire Global Sports apparatus.

is unable to adjust to Scientific change. and this is just the beginning right so. we're talking about things like uh. crisper Gene editing is going to be on. the cards right so think of this from uh. you know an intellectual mind Fu right. there there are children who are being. born today who are being crisper edited. by their parents so they it is a one-way. Street they can never reverse.

it they never consented to this. procedure and they are in theory. enhanced human beings and there's no way. they can stop it they've never consented. to it right should that person be banned. from the Olympics well it's a good. question yeah I don't think they should. but I think that that's going to be the. likelihood in the future is that most. children at least in like First World. countries are going to be edited yeah. and so then you know and then you're. going to get gigachad yeah you're GNA. get. gig I mean that's what it is yeah I mean.

when they can do that to fully grown. adults it's going to be very strange. yeah and then if we think about like. where Olympic competition goes where in. the rich countries right the rich people. are enhancing themselves their children. from birth take a look at that that's. the future bro yeah. yeah and and and and and and the the. transgenderism issue is actually just. the the Vanguard of this whole. transhumanism issue right where.

eventually we're going to have BCI. implants in our brain we're going to. have Gene editing we're going to have. the most amazing technology right and. you know if the Olympics are stuck in. this ancient Greek Corinthian values. modality um then they're not going to. adjust to Modern technological and. social changes right yeah no so we want. to be like that's actually the vision. Beyond like just what we're thinking now. about performance enhancement is like. that we're going to be the continuous.

sort. of role model or the continuous showcase. where human enhancement can go over the. next 20 years and we we talking now. about performance-enhancing medications. but like maybe in 10 years we're going. to have the first people with a chip in. their brain maybe like it's going to be. there's going to be a continuous sort of. pushing the boundaries in a good way we. want to showcase what science can really. do positively for humans by the way fun. fact because we always reference back to. the ancient Olympics they did allow.

performance enhancements very openly you. can go to all the ancient documents so. what did they have back then so they. didn't have a lot that's the point they. actually did a lot of stuff which was. pain numbing so that they could sort of. run harder and whatever because pain was. a big thing they actually believed. interesting in Eating bull testicles. weirdly so weirdly exactly so weirdly. there are some documents who mention. psychedelics which I'm not fully sure.

why it would be performance arm but they. mention it like sort of if you go into. all these documents like and potions and. again it was very very archaic but like. the notion was do everything is possible. to win and and actually the transgender. the transgender issue goes back to the. ancient Olympics really who said. hermaphrodites well and so do you know. why they competed naked so you could. know you could know yeah ah and so. there's a so you know a historian told. me and um you need to verified.

independently that they originally wore. clothes and then you know a woman. pretended to be a man to compete at the. Olympic Games and then that this was. found out so then they just made it all. naked it was not well it was not because. she thought she could win it was more. like because it was for men and it was a. it was um the story is it was a. revolution Point ah I see like women. voting yes yeah interesting um another. problem would be when you add.

testosterone to females you. fundamentally change them so you don't. just change their ability to perform you. change the way their voice sounds you. change that you could make them sterile. it it has when you're adding exogenous. testosterone to women at a very high. level it has pretty profound permanent. changes as adding testosterone to. right sort of but they're still men yeah. right and it's thought of as being a. positive thing you know I'm sure you're.

aware of the Eastern block uh women in I. mean some of the records still to this. day haven't been broken and these women. were just to the tits no pun. intended because they were trying to win. and so they you know when you've there's. been some interviews of these women that. were forced to do this these communist. countries and you know it devastated. them they they became infertile they you. know developed all sorts of problems. ovarian cysts and all sorts of things. that were connected to the use of. exogenous testosterone at very high.

levels yeah and and one of which is a a. lack of scci proper scientific research. to develop compounds that are. performance-enhancing specifically for. women right but you wouldn't stop them. from taking testosterone. right uh well there's right so like. let's let's talk about Combat Sports. athletes for for example if you had a. female Combat Sports athlete and you. that female to compete with other women. but allow that person to get Juiced to. the hilt and go in there look.

crazy voice and and looking like like. vanderlay Silva in those pictures that. were or rather vtor belr in those. pictures that we saw I mean that's you. know then you're saying to these women. in order to compete you have to stop. being a woman you have to essentially. transition which is what happens to. trans men when you take a woman and you. give them a tote of testost they. start growing beards they become trans. men right that's part of the process. it's what's happening that's not. reversible and when you do that to women.

competing with women those women are. going to be more effective they're going. to be stronger for in weightlifting. competition there's going to be no. comparison you if you have uh Combat. Sports you're going to have much more. power much more speed more violence it's. just you're you're adding you're turning. them into men essentially you're turning. them into trans men and just to to. compete it's a little bit different. right because we look I mean maybe it's. a society standard maybe it's not though. if you look it in terms of like when.

someone looks at like gigachad you know. guys look at that guys who like to work. out like wow I'd like to be built like. that guy no very few women look at like. a female bodybuilder who's got a 5:00. shadow and say that's the ideal physique. but isn't that an individual Choice it. is an individual choice but all women in. the enhanced games will have to make. that choice then to become men. uh I I actually think there's also an. economic rationale here right so if. you're um an an athlete particularly in.

the era of nil rights and in the era nil. name image license what's happened in. the NCAA right selling your brand. right for an athlete male or female. their physique and their brand are. attached to each other and so if a. female athlete says you know what I'm. gonna take tons and tons of testosterone. she may also be compromising her her. economic ability to earn um by uh not.

building a a visual brand that is um. amendable to to the market but even even. easier like we forgot to mention one. thing at the beginning so we have. actually three and by way we're still. mapping out and and sort of phrasing the. details but we have three essential. rules rule number one which we said at. the beginning it has to be FDA or any. other agency globally a approved. medications because again we discussed. it at length it's all about data knowing. what you take what's the risk whatever. second you have to have a doctor which.

we will require to be public who is your. doctor think about a Formula One team. where you say who's my chief engineer. right so this doctor will have a public. pressure to not go too far because. people will know you're the doctor of. that person right but we're talking. about percentage points in order to win. you just have to go a little bit further. than everybody else and you an advantage. wait third one but just still it's still. a limitating factor you need to find a. Doctor Who's publicly your doctor who's. not hiding in the shadows and who's like.

I'm responsible for whatever this. athlete is taking it's just it's just. thinking through safet measures or how. do we sort of make it in a way that. people are sort of doing rational. decisions but the third one is important. anything by the way in life which you. take too much of has side effects and. has bad ones if you take 20 vodka shots. you're going to be dead most likely or. 30 there's a number of alcohol if you. take it you're dead so it has alcohol. has a lethal toxicity at a certain.

amount so what we going to do the same. is like for many of the things we just. discussing is like if you take too much. of it even if you think you get one. point more out of it you're going to put. damage on your body there is always for. anything for testosterone for human. growth hormones for anabolic steroids. where how we regulate it is we're going. to do a full health check which the. Olympics don't it's very simple you. should do it we do it onsite with our. own doctors so that you can't cheat one.

of the most important thing is an MRI of. the heart because for example a lot of. anabolic steroid if you abuse them so if. you take too much to squeeze out the. last Point you're going to have a heart. damage someone and then you're going to. get disqualified we will not let any. person on the field who has a health. damage that that's going to be. interesting data so and that is and that. is the limit Factor so if you're a woman. and everything you described I hear you. but I can tell you I'm not a doctor now. I can tell you the exact answer but if.

you describe me a woman is taking that. much testosterone that she grows a beard. and whatever she's going to have damage. to her body and her heart and she's not. going to then and that is then the then. they don't do it because then they would. do it for nothing they would arrive and. would be disqualified what are the. what's the testing involved in the. CrossFit. Games I believe the CrossFit Games does. not have testing that makes sense cuz. you seen some of them gals yeah and some. some those guys yeah but some of the. gals are like giant six backs and.

huge shoulders and vast majority. of bodybuilding comps don't have any. drug testing they can't yeah they really. can't it's not even possible without it. all athletes registered in any CrossFit. Games competition are subject to drug. testing at any time during the year but. we don't do it including I I'm just here. including directed unannounced out of. competition testing for any reason. CrossFit Games drug testing policy aims. to prevent the use of 2002 look at it. asked the question before 2002 that's 22. Yeah 2022 yeah it's just two years ago.

yeah. um um what drugs are banned stimulants. anabolic agents beta blockers in. competitions streat drugs diuretics. peptides peptides interesting. anti-estrogens beta 2 Agonist. interesting wait wait don't so hold on. permitted with prescription use and. therapeutic exemption through inhalation. only okay we haven't talked about Tu. yeah oh we need to talk about Tu.

so this is the primary abuse that's. going on in the Olympic system. therapeutic use exemptions yes this is. we're going to get all lawyerly and. Technical for a minute. here and double check my statistics. Jamie I believe 2% of all people are. asthmatic no no double digit of all. swimmers are asmatic it's insane yeah. sorry sorry 2% in real life yeah 2% of. the population is asmatic but double. digits maybe a third of all swimmers.

more claim to be asmatic so that they. can use high powerered steroidal. inhalers right so is there an epidemic. of asthma among swimmers or are they. faking. asthma they're faking asthma yeah yeah. right I had a guess yeah and and and. these theraputic use exemptions are just. abused left right and Center look up a. case of um with bre wickens the British. cyclist I believe who had a therapeutic. use exemption for asthma and then you. know for ever hid this from his even his.

own teammates ah yeah okay H so how do. they diagnose. asthma that's a great question I'm not. not not not a physician my guess is that. it well you mean in real life or like. the doctor just says you has as like I. think they just find a Doctor Who's yeah. I think their team doctor just says they. have asthma oh so they just say. yeah um was athletes with asthma. required to show proof of Airway. obstruction with clinical test 25% their.

inhaled medications which are otherwise. prohibited during competition is there. anything that they can take to obstruct. their Airway or can they just what does. that mean is it like how you blow on. things I think what could you like fake. it I think it's quite easy to F I think. what is in generally happening with a. lot of our new colleagues as we hired um. Chief cardiologist of uh. FIFA right yeah uh and colleages said. that is like one of the the ways to. cheat in the Olympics is that they let. people do tests these kind of stuff in.

their home country well also look look. at how it's described here a long-term. study would help distinguish but now in. quotes between athletes with asthma who. self- select to swimming and those who. have asthma as a result of exposure to. endurance training. practices that's interesting so like. that the idea is that you could. limit your your cardiovascular system. from extreme training intensity of. swimmer training long hour spent water.

May exposed swimmers to more chlorine. byproducts whoa yeah so one compared to. divers or other AD who spend less time. breathing oh so that can cause asthma so. it could also it could be that swimmers. really have more asthma because like. their sort of training environment or. living environment is is fostering it. but it also could be that they of most. likely it's both well that is one thing. that I did consider because like. chlorine is bad for you and you're. probably getting a bunch of it in your. mouth you know and if you're yeah and if. you're swimming in it you're also.

absorbing it through your skin like I. always think that when I get out of a. pool like this can't be good you know. it's what came first the chicken or the. egg right right well listen gentlemen. this is all very very exciting and uh I. I love the idea of it I love the. potential and I think it really is going. to change the conversation about what. these substance are these substances are. and what the benefits of them are and. you're you're frankly exposing the lid.

on so-called amateur Athletics and what. the real big scam is with the Olympic. system it's just like a a giant money. grab and these poor athletes aren't. getting any of it and they're dedicating. their entire life hoping that they. become famous meanwhile you know NBC. makes how much you know the billions. yeah and the ioc makes how much the. whole thing is uh it's not a good system. and I think your system is far better. and I really really hope this works I. really hope you succeed when it comes.

out I'll tweet about it I'll tell people. I still say tweet I'm not going I don't. even know how to say it I think we all. say tweet have tweet yeah I think Elon. probably even says it but um best of. luck I'm really excited and let me know. when when it happens come back on again. right before it happens and we'll talk. some more and we'll find out like where. you went with all these ideas cool would. love to thank you very much appreciate. it all right oh if anybody wants to know. more where should they go what's the. best place to enhanced. org or enhan. games on Instagram okay beautiful or I'm.

on Instagram I'm on Twitter yeah. so okay so tell everybody your uh handle. if they want to follow C for Christian. uncore angaya my last main a NG g r m a. y r and you I'm not on Twitter somewhere. good for you follow me on Instagram okay. what's your Instagram Aon ping dza okay. beautiful all right thank you guys bye. thank you bye everybody. [Applause]. [Music].