Joe Rogan Experience #2134 - Paul Stamets

Joe Rogan podcast check it out The Joe. Rogan Experience Train by day Joe Rogan. podcast by night all. day what is going on my friend how are. you good to see you again good to see. you brother it's been a while it's been. a while and there's a lot of interesting. developments so this is the never-. Ending Story I Feel The Never Ending. Story of mushrooms yeah so this giant. one that you brought me explain this. again cuz you were telling me out there. I'm like let's save this for the show.

cuz this this is crazy sure this is um. the best gift that I can give from a my. colist to a friend this is a rare old. growth mushroom called a gacon only. grows in the old growth forest is now on. the red list of threatened species uh in. Europe this one was found on the ground. folks so it's important that people. don't pick these they're very rare. literally one out of a hundred times in. the old growth forest I'll find one so. this is a really important people.

understand how important biodiversity. micro diversity we're talking about. fungi a gacan was first ascribed by. diares over 2,000 years ago as elerium. ad longum vum wow the elixir of long. life is also revered by the Haida and. the clicket in the Northwest First. Nations as a mushroom very important for. their own. pharmacopia so 2,000 years history of. use other sides of the world and.

directly after 9911 I was approached by. the BIOS Shield uh biod defense. department and they ran over 2,200. assays the S the concern was uh. weaponize viruses so they saw an article. I wrote an herbalgram called novel. antivirals from mushrooms a whopping one. page long that's all there was in the. scientific literature so I knew in my. intuition this rare species could have. some properties of more than 2 million.

samples tested by the US defense. department us AMD US Army Research. Institute infectious uh diseases and NIH. and collaboration of more than two. million samples synthetics and natural. compounds we were in the top 10 of all. samples active against in this case pox. viruses and we were the only natural. product so the there's a vetted press. release that talks about this that came. out in. 2004 so I have dedicated my life you.

know I have a company and fortunately. I've put a lot of my resources I've. literally spent millions of dollars. collecting strains from the old growth. forest and I'm happy to announce that we. have more than. 107 strains of aaran isolated from. Northern California even Northern. Arizona British Columbia and in Europe I. have now the largest culture library of. agaron in the world and so people go why. is this important well it's not only. important because the old gr Forest.

are declining I mean there less than 1%. but I believe the old gr Forest are. cultural libraries that are be essential. for biod. defense and from the research that we. did with the BIOS Shield program in 2004. then I have a TED Talk in 2008 that. talks about this and that I'm very. thankful that we have completed a. covid-19 clinical trial the results of. rich was presented at the Georgetown. University of Medicine uh school of.

medicine on September 23rd. 2023 and what we looked at and my. colleagues and superb Physicians and. researchers led by a great team at the. crops Center for integrative medicine at. the University of California San Diego. and was a double blind Placebo. controlled study and in that study um. the idea was to look at vaccine. enhancement so before mRNA vaccines. there's just so much noise and confusion.

and you know since the dust hadn't. settled enough but the MRNA enhancement. vaccine which is called Mach. 19 they gave half the patients a placebo. which was melum grown on rice I'm sorry. just rice and a garon and turkey tail. combined that were grown on Rice so one. the control of PBO is just rice neutral. and the other one is a g on turkey tail.

that turkey tail is the most. well-studied medicinal Mushroom in the. world we populate a website for. physicians at mushroom references. comom. no branding just pure science people can. go to mushroom references. comom and see. this so double line placeo controlled. and they literally recruited people. directly out of the vaccination lines. were people getting fiser or madna. vaccines and said hey do you want to be. involved in a medicinal mushroom vaccine. study enhancement study and people. people then signed up and so they got hi.

uh they consumed a gacan turkey tail or. the placebo for four days and then they. measured. symptoms post vaccination and then six. months out and so I there are two slides. that I have that I sent along to you. that I'm allowed to show when when you. say symptoms post vaccination what do. you mean well it's not quite showing up. there James.

for some reason the chart both of them. you might have to do a PNG on the. snapshot which one do you want both at. the same time no just see if you can the. charts are not showing up for whatever. reason. um no worri so what happens I mean I've. got MRA vaccine you feel like you're hit. by a truck right two days later you're. you got the vaccine and some Physicians. say well that's your immune system uh. acting are.

reacting so there is 10 symptoms that. the CDC is identified Center for Disease. Control that are Adverse Events due to. vaccines there actually UCSD has 25. symptoms so the idea was to look at. whether a gon on turkey tail reduce the. adverse effects of vaccines and how. would they do that well they measure. they ask you would you get a headache. right but I mean how would the mushrooms. reduce the well this is this is very. this is a very good question we had to.

convince the FDA that these were safe. and so because we had sold hundreds of. thousands of a gacan and turkey tail. with no adverse offense we were able to. prove that so it went through these. called the institution of review boards. and the FDA for approval and they. approved it now the biggest concern they. had was if you stimulate the immune. system which is the the presumption of. how these mushrooms work you could. create a sakine. storm and so this is one of the chart. now this was written up in jamama um and.

the concern was a sodine storm uh poses. the greatest risk uh not the virus. itself and so when people took Aaron and. day one is where the vaccination. occurred with madna fizer mRNA and then. if you look at the black line that's the. placebo which is just the rice and fotv. is fomy Thompson fishal trimes vers. that's a gon and turkey tail combined. and you'll see that a day two and day.

three on the scale there there's almost. no adverse effects and whereas those. people who did not take a gacon and. turkey tail had a massive increase in. adverse symptoms now article just came. out this past year 30% of the people. avoid vaccinations because they fear the. adverse effects because they hear people. miss school missw work they feel. terrible they go I don't want to get a. vaccine not just that the the really. scary ones like myocarditis pericarditis. heart attack Strokes blood clots so the.

reason why the FDA approved this we be. make the argument is we found that these. M two mushrooms stimulated what's called. uh an anti-inflammatory sodin interlan 1. ra and interlan 10 now most of the when. you have an immune response many of. these inter lucans is part of your. natural immunity but they can Cascade. and they can then unthrottle create a. sakine storm so most people then die. from over stim imulation of the immune.

system inflammatory reaction we found. that with a gacan and turkey tail we. were able to reduce the adverse effects. which are inflammatory effects headache. sore throat insomnia muscle ache. soreness Mala Etc insomnia is also. included so this was a big surprise it. was double llya had no access to any any. of the data until it was unmask which is. normal so we found that and then.

something else very very surprising. occurred and as to credit to my. colleagues they came up with this idea. at the University of California the. crops Center for integrative medicine is. let's look at antibody extension the. idea with the vaccines you create an. antibodies to prevent the spike protein. from being docking on your cells and. gaining interest and infecting your. cells so they looked at people 6 months. later now 89 out of 90 people I think.

came back 6 months later tremendous. Conformity let's take your blood 6. months later and then Jamie if you can. pull up the next slide and this is what. we found that was so astonishing is six. months later with the short exposure to. a gon and turkeytail there was a carry. on where the antibody response was far. greater than that of the reservoir of. antibodies just from the. vaccine are these people that had. actually contracted CO as well these are.

what we call naive we want them we. didn't when you get covid then the. antibody response gets very cloudy and. then you have antibod response from your. natural immune system then you have the. the the vaccine itself so these are. called the vaccine naive group I mean. the the virus naive group we did not. want them to have the virus so we. tracked them to make sure that they did. not get the virus but this elevates you. into a state of immune Readiness and. this is the thing I did not know I. didn't not know if you're.

immunologically depressed you have. immunological lower activity due to. whatever whatever reason if you get a. vaccine your antibod response is not. that great your immune cell levels are. very low they're very not not very. active what's exciting about this to the. immunologists is that if you can. upregulate immunity and then get the. vaccine your immune cell population is. much more robust much more responsive. and so the an body response is much.

greater and this is what we found the. fact that extended out 6 months we. didn't go out a year we didn't go out. longer and this is just for a short. dosing short dosing of only four days. and this was the dosing that happened. right after the vaccine right. simultaneously in the same day the. vaccine for four days now this is where. this one of my favorite phrases by. voltero don't let the perfect be the. enemy of the good you can twist. yourselves into pretzels to to try to. explain how this works right but the. bottom line it does work and if you.

could upregulate Community immunity of. the. population the problem that I did not. realize is immunologically depressed. people when they get a vaccine their. antibody response is not only poor but. they become a breeding ground for. vaccine resistance so you have a lot. more virus replicating you want to stop. the viral replication early on in the. process so the more antibod response the. more robust your response is specific to.

this virus and other viruses and this is. what we're really wondering now wow how. does this carry over to other viruses. last time like how does it work like. what is what's the mechanism that's. causing this to to happen we think. there's an Entourage effect of multiple. mechanisms that are in play we know that. it increases cell immunity so daughter. cells when they're created don't pass on. the virus would be able to show that. which is extraordinary but it speaks to. host defensive immunity the immune cells.

the your immune cells are en a your. endogenous immune system is able to. prevent the virus from replicating and. that's what's what's so exciting we know. of the anti-inflammatory effects so we. have this as one person said you're. putting on the gas pedal and you're put. on the brakes at the same time you can. augment immunity and decrease. inflammation now that's that's what. these vaccine companies are spending. billions of dollars let's create a. vaccine without any adverse effects the. fact you can take a natural product. that's been used for thousands of years.

Das gardis is one of the father fathers. of medicine the fact it's been used for. by for so long we know it's safe and now. in this time we are finding we have 100. plus strains of Aaron so I think we have. a super strain in my library and that's. what I'm trying to discover what strain. in our library of 107 strains now that. we have we just used one strain and we. saw these these effects so if we can. boost Community immunity then we can.

amarate the spread you know of pandemics. obviously and when you're saying there's. all these different strains there's 107. strains we have 107 strains in our lber. the largest lber in the world there is. probably hundreds of thousands of. strains if there are hundreds of. thousands of mushrooms or millions of. mushrooms but there aren't this this. this species is rapidly on the brink of. um of becoming extremely threatened if. not extinct can it be. repopulated we can culture it in the. laboratory all we need is a tiny piece.

of tissue you can't reintroduce into. forests we have inoculated from snags. which have been. unsuccessful um the idea would be we'd. like to reintroduce into forest or we. can these forests are like Islands. genomic libraries of islands that we. need to protect and this is why I made. the statement my TED Talk we to save the. old growth forest as a matter of. National Defense that's not quite. correct it's for international defense. you know viruses don't care about bords. right and we've entered Joe we've.

entered into a period of viral storms. we're going to have viral storms. converging at us all the time now and. it's due to factory farming the. Collision of industrialization. suburbanization ecosystems on those. margins what we're facing now this. currently in the news is bird flu six. different uh herds of cattle have been. infected with bird flu first time in. history first time in history it's jump. from birds the large mammals cattle from.

Idaho and it's now uh got scientists on. high alert says b this is uh from nature. says bird flu outbreak in US cows why. scientists are concerned a virus has. killed hundreds of millions of birds is. now infected cattle in six US states but. the threat to humans is currently low. currently currently low because if it. jumps to pigs we already know the. viruses that infect pigs can infect very. likely humans. so cows and pigs are often times in the.

same farms and if it jumps to Pigs we're. in trouble yeah we're in big trouble. because that's that's just one species. way historically in. phology um swine viruses H1N1 is swine. flu we found High activity with at the. bow Shield program of a garan also. against H1N1 and h5n1 is it possible to. give this to cows don't know H don't. know um. so my concern and those of other.

theologists that I've been in contact. with for literally decades now is it's. strange that six herds of cattle from. Idaho to Oklahoma to. Texas would spontaneously get bird flu. it's not like the cattle made contact. with each other so there's more than one. epicenter when you have these epis. zootic zoonotic centers where the virus. can jump to larger mammals. then you have many many you know ground.

zeros you know for the virus to emerge. so if it jumps to swines or to to pigs. or. Hogs. the increaseed likelihood it jumps to. people so it's it's a very big concern. with wuhong okay it came out of one city. one location but this is showing. epidemiologically that the virus is. jumping to larger mammals simultaneously.

right now it doesn't have the mutation. and so there's very low risk let's be. very clear about that there's very low. risk but virologists are an extremely. high alert because of this unusual. pattern of sudden occurrence first time. ever it's jumped the seals and bears of. all things um and it's devastated. hundreds of millions of of uh of birds. around the world did they have any idea. where this so they it originated with. birds yes it's called bird flu and do. they think that it's just Birds.

traveling to these different herds. generally speaking that's the that's the. modality that most so they just fly. around give it to New they go to a pond. you know they're Co co-mingling the. virus and drinking water you know egrets. sit on top of cows and get bugs off the. backs of of of large mammals Etc so. migratory birds of course is the most. obvious Vector but when you have factory. farming of chickens and hundreds of. thousands of chicken chickens this past. year I think hundreds of millions of.

chickens if you look it up have been. euthanized in the past year because they. did get. h5n1 and so the chicken start sneezing. and they get sick and it's extremely. communicable so it spreads throughout. the chicken farms very quickly so the. USDA NIH everyone involved in the. biocurity is extremely concerned about. this new event which just happened in. the past few weeks and that that report. I showed you just showed up yesterday in. in nature as well so if it mutates you.

know it's a whole new pandemic threat. and it's much more severe the estimates. of from the from humans getting bird flu. h5n1 is up to 70%. mortality. 70% not 0.1% or 0 1% with covid is 70%. now it some people say 40% okay you. reduce it by 30% we do have vaccines.

already in the pipeline that are. anticipating this so that's a good news. the flu virus uh vome as it's called has. been very well. characterized um but the mutation rate. is what's of concern and there since. there's so many different localities. that are spontaneously infecting cows. this virus is on the move and that is. the concern that we all have and so by. boosting Community immunity we can then. have more immune cells cells to produce. antibodies that make the vaccines more.

effective and the idea is you can help. avoid vaccine evasion by having your. endogenous immune system uh at its Peak. Performance how does this how does this. stuff work without. vaccines um we have early evidence on. how it works uh without vaccines and I. want to be very respectful um but I also. have to be very professional I am not at. Liberty to discuss those results for a.

number of reasons one of which the data. as I mentioned is a little clouded. because the people that we were bringing. in to the first study we didn't have. them as well characterized but clearly a. gan on Turkey tale with the evidence. that was presented again September 23rd. 2023 at the Georgetown School uh. Georgetown University School of Medicine. these two charts I can present to you. because they were publicly presented we. do have a paper in process that's as. being submitted uh to a journal and has.

to go through the assd test to peer. review Etc but there's a team of us and. we're very excited about this research. results because it's not going to I'm. hoping it's not going to be the vaccine. of the month scene where you just are. constantly creating getting new vaccines. for every variant if you can have your. endogenous immune system you know on the. ready then it can then have an innate. response to these viral uh infection. ctions that will amarate their spread.

and that's the whole key idea is to keep. the viral loads as down as low as. possible so what is the mechanism that. these two together help strengthen your. immune system well that's a really good. question we know that with a turkey tail. we did a breast cancer clinical study. phase one uh that was also published uh. with breast cancer patients we see. augmentation of many immune cells. including cytotoxic tea cells macroasia. and natural killer cells statistically. significant it also was a phase one.

study and for people to know phase one. studies are pretty small there tend to. be safety studies you know there are. usually a few dozen people sometimes as. few as six our study we had n 90 people. the covid study the breast clinical. study I think had about 28 people but. also compared to bbo the melum grown and. rice this is so important it's not the. fruit bodies it's the melum that has. this effect of being able to up regulate. immunity and down regulate inflammation.

so with a breast cancer clinical study. it was shown to be safe it was shown to. augment augment several of the immune uh. cell responses by how much um well the. the the the there's two ways of three. ways of answering that there's the. amplitude of the immune cells which is I. think as I remember six six times you. know. Baseline um there is different immune. cells in terms of their activ ity and. how they increase but the sign.

significance value which is the P value. as people know it was I think less than. 0.1 it showed highly significant effects. which are outside of the realm of chance. and so we were able to show immune. regulation the breast cancer clinical. study did not measure um. anti-inflammatory sakin and so again we. have this incredibly complex immune. system that's developed over hundreds of.

millions of years and it's not this. magical bullet approach that many people. Integrative Medicine are focused on is. the Entourage effect and so when you. create a Entourage of of um enabling. stimuli that has the immune system react. a lot of us believe there's cross talk. between the receptors a receptor saying. okay this is this is helpful it awakens. other receptors and then you get this so. Cor response of the immune system at a.

higher state of Readiness without being. detrimental to the body that's created. the immune system so the cyto storm and. overreaction of inflammatory responses. is a huge concern with any imuno. stimulant so that's why in jamama that. we letter it was written up the concern. about the sakine storm uh I co-authored. an article with the University of. Arizona School of Medicine Physicians. also warning people be very careful. about imuno stimulation even with the.

medicine of mushrooms but we had this. evidence already that the mushroom melum. throttled back uh the inflammatory. consequences by upregulating interlukin. 1 ra and interlukin 10 and at medicinal. uh uh mushroom references. comom uh you. can see all these references right on. the very front of of the. website so all this stuff has been used. forever right been used for thousands of. years and what what do we know about.

what they used it for or how they found. out that it worked or or anything like. that uh that's a really great question. actually um it was used as an. anti-inflammatory as a pus uh to reduce. muscle aches and would they just use the. fruiting bodies the fruiting bodies. would be powdered um and the fruiting. bodies are not the the fruiting bodies. have may have anti-inflammatory actions. but we found the mycelium in in. increases the host defense it supports.

immunity urinate immunity so this is why. U you know it's been used for thousands. years as a pulus you know and ointments. you know Etc um and so it has a long you. know back in the day before we could. elocute the different aspects of what's. Happening medically in the human body. there's sort of like this very broad. umbrellas that were describing you know. um getting into homeostasis this is. typical take this with food or without. food either way it doesn't matter I I.

take them in the morning be eating them. why am I they're sitting here telling me. all these things I'm getting scared. don't be scared I mean this is not a. time for Widespread Panic but it is is. time for to be well I mean I the analogy. I make we all buy car insurance right. and the unlikely hood that we're going. to get on a car accident today or. tomorrow so why not preemptively invest. in your own immunological health by. being prepared. so should you get exposed you don't.

become a super spreader right and so. this is where I think we have a. potential breakthrough in integrative. medicine and and I want to give a shout. out to my colleagues at the University. of California San Diego the crops. Institute they're the ones that came up. with this idea of vaccine extension. because so many people are concerned. about how many vaccines do I take and. what happens when you take so many. vaccines um so the idea of having your. innate immune system them at a state of. Readiness so vaccines work better and.

you have to use them less I mean that's. the Holy Grail of the of of of. vaccinology and what does this but. that's back to my original question what. does it do for people that don't want to. take vaccines what what can it can it. help their immune system fight off. things we know um and I have to be very. careful how I say this right but we know. that these um these mycelium based. products of a garon and turkey tail. support the the immune system this is.

clear now the immune system has many. challenges from bacterial infections. viral infections cancer you know um just. cells getting old and dying not having. apoptosis apoptosis is important for you. to get rid of your disease and and aging. and dead cells so it's a very very broad. landscape so I'm not trying to be I'm. I'm not dancing around the definitions. I'm but I am very much restricted on. what I'm able to to say I understand. what you're saying yeah I can say that.

these a garon and turkey tail supports. the immune system we have very good. evidence for that I can say that in. combination based on the earlier. evidence and we need more studies but. this is a placebo double blind. controlled study we can show that we. reduce the adverse effects of the MRNA. vaccines for this population that we. studied of 90 people those who did not. take gon turkey tale had adverse.

consequences. significantly less than those people who. took a gon turkey tail did not have. adverse so it helps people not avoid. vaccines because of their vaccine. hesitancy um I have a dear friend and. their family's very conservative. Christians and they just refuse to get. vaccinations they isolated themselves. and at first I was on the other side of. the fence being wait a second why aren't. you getting vaccines I've come to. understand why the didn't want vaccines. I totally respect their op their opinion.

and what they did but they're very. interested and many people are in you. know not needing a vaccine how can I. have build innate. immunity when it comes to the the. pandemic storms the viral pandemics that. we Face we are in unprecedented. times what happens when we get multiple. viral variants not only from flu viruses. but from other.

viruses because of loss of. biodiversity because of factory farming. it spreads so. rapidly we are at the convergence. of. possibly multiple virus and viral. pandemics converging at the same time. that is not improbable at all so it's. really we need to get our act together. and everyone needs to work together and. what we think that we have and many.

other Physicians who are knowledgeable. about the subject who' studied this very. carefully who've looked at the data are. excited about it because it can help. innate immunity so whether we get a. vaccine or don't get a vaccine your your. immune system is supported at a higher. level of. Readiness so when you started doing this. and you said there's 107 strains you. guys have identified and isolated what. what are the differences in those. strains is is are some more potent than.

others or some have different effects. excellent question with the BIOS Shield. program I think I submitted six strains. of a gacon only three showed any any. activity in the Bios Shield program so. three showed nothing three showed. nothing um two of them were active. against uh flu viruses and uh one of. them was active against pox. viruses now that's weird because pox. viruses are DNA viruses flu viruses or. RNA viruses and so you think the.

modality would be different but it just. speaks the fact how little we know I met. um a Nobel p uh laurate in San Diego who. got the Nobel Prize in immunology and. I'm not going to mention his name but he. gave a great quote he goes I can't. believe I got the Nobel Prize because I. know about the immune system and. here's a Nobel. La he he just said it is so incredibly. complex every time we think we. understand understand it that we're. challenged with new ideas are contrary.

to our assumptions so it's really. important to keep an open mind the the. beauty of Aaron and turkey tal is a. multi- thousand year history of use. traditional Chinese medicine has been. advocating this for literally 2,000. years long history in Europe long. history in in North America with. indigenous first First Nations so this. is I mean I think so let me really put. this in the context Alexander Fleming. and most people know the story. 1929 he got a mold and his petri dish.

was growing staff bacteria and there was. a zone of inhibition the bacteria. stopped growing so he looked at that. margin of no growth and he thought well. that mold is excreting something it. turned out to be. penicillin so he published that and. there's a massive number of researchers. all over the world especially in London. and Europe started isolating molds to. see if they could find a highly potent. strain that produced. penicillin so but they couldn't.

industrialize it and in the Netherlands. and the Imperial College they did a lot. of work but they couldn't scale up the. production of penicillin uh during World. War II until a lab researcher by the. name of Mary Hunt working in Peoria. Illinois at a USDA laboratory went to a. farmers's market and found a moldy. cantaloupe The Moldy cantaloupe was. covered with a golden mold and so. Alexander Fleming discovered penicilium.

notatum she discovered that penicilium. chrysogenum chrysogenum means gold. golden color and then she isolated that. mold and it to turned out to produce six. times more penicillin at least of any. other strain here we discovered and the. advantage that we had in the United. States is that we had corn steep liquor. we grow corn and a corn you take corn. cobs you boil them in water you can make. corn steep liquor and that turned out to. be a perfect medium for the massive. production of penicillin wow the Germans.

they had a factory with making. penicillin it got bombed so they were. they were kicked out of the race the. Japanese ever developed it penicillin. literally saved hundreds of millions of. dollars because of Mary Hunt's cantalope. you mean lives yeah hundreds of millions. of lives sorry I just spoke worries. hundreds of millions of lives uh because. of her mul cantaloup that's wild and. just I think a gacan with 107 strands. when we start sequencing them we see. done whole genome sequencing on 95.

strains so far whole genomic sequencing. so with the entire genomic fingerprint. and to go back to your question we have. found four or so different clades these. are little subgenera uh sub genomic uh. associations lineages you might you call. them and in those lineages we are just. beginning to see early signal of what. lineages have greater potency um in as. an anti inflammatory and also for. supporting the immune system so it's.

this is my biggest contribution to. science I hope historically will be. because of this library and I've. literally spent millions of dollars I'm. not exaggerating millions of dollars on. a gacon to amass 107 strains and we're. accumulating more we're going to publish. this in the in in the Commons in the uh. large large genomic uh Library databases. so other people can see this. and so you said there's four strains.

that you identified that were particular. yeah that was that was it with the bile. Shield program and so so out of the 107. how many of them are viable well we. didn't have 107 back then I only had six. or seven strains back then at the B. Shield program in 2004 so in 2024 now we. have 107 we only had one choice for the. covid-19 clinical study so I OS the. strain of a gacon that was the most.

robust uh that we saw in our early inv. vitro tests with a bi Shield program and. out of these 107 strains you have. currently yes how many of them have you. tested. uh well in terms of um how many have we. tested for immune support yeah for. everything Clinic clinically only one. only one in vitro I think seven or eight. some of them are not active we are. currently involved with another.

University who is now testing multiple. strains in vitro and we have new signal. now and um I want to show you how big. these Aarons get so Jamie you before we. go any further when when you identify. ones that aren't active do you uh. bookmark them and see if you can try. them for other things that could be. beneficial to the human body or do you. just only look at the the immune system. and do you always assume that they only.

have one. mechanism um we the answer that question. is I'm a very small company I have 150. employees I you know own own the whole. company I'm I have eight or nine. full-time. researchers there are so many. applications potentially of this we have. to be very narrowly focused on that. which we can achieve if I was atce issue. I a resource issue if I was a part of. NIH or and I've made NIH applications. you know one out of eight you know has. made it through um but it's very very.

difficult for an independent researcher. like me to Advance the science without. collaboration with larger entities so. mostly univers seems like if there's if. we we're finding these benefits in these. mushrooms it seems like it's to anybody. to everyone's benefit if there was some. large scale funding of some research on. this because if you bookmark these ones. that don't have efficacy towards the. specific goal that you have is it. possible that we would be missing out on. some of the other uh additional benefits.

these mushrooms that we're not aware of. in these different strains as I. immunologist and our team said because. inflammation is ass the root cause of so. many illnesses the fact you can. upregulate immunity and downregulated. inflammation as has implications across. the medical field right but but they. don't all show this ability correct. that's correct and the ones that don't. show this ability what I'm saying is is. it possible that they have other effects. beneficial effects that we're not. measuring cuz we're only looking for. this absolutely have antifungal effects.

the weird thing about a gacan from my. experience it's the only mushroom that. grows on an old growth tree all these. other trees I find I found four five six. maybe 10 different species but when I. find agaran you know this is an example. this my good friend Scott Baker he. climbed 100 feet up to this agaron we. got a tiny piece of tissue the size of. your fingernail from the bottom of that. and we got it that culture four or five. years later a storm came through broke.

off that tree that that that gacan now. was not there so we saved it we've saved. it from fires gacan we've saved from. logging I've actually had some logger. buddies of mine who know about this look. at the size of that this is the biggest. one we've ever seen um and uh this one. is over a 100. pounds uh over a hundred years of age. and um it is uh crazy it looks like.

cement oh it is those are annual growth. rings basically basically they're annual. growth rings um I have to say this is. this is this is my kind of guy he's. known as Yus Sam and I do have. permission to show this so he looks. like7 yeah but this this guy I mean that. is a massive Aaron the biggest one I've. ever seen so think about the the grow in. the old growth forest subject to vast. weather changes Wind and Rain in snow. and they live for 100 years and they.

don't rot what is what is about this. fungus that allows it not to rot um so. it seems to have a host defense of. protection innately and since we're more. closely related to fungi than any other. Kingdom and the the anti-bacterial. antibi biotics that we've gotten mostly. have come from fungi but very few. antifungal antibiotics and so research. is also showing that the agaron and. other poly mushrooms are active against.

pathogenic fun fungi so it's an. interesting Nexus point that a garon's. in the center of antiviral antibacterial. and antifungal and yet has such a long. history of use and safety so we're. really at the threshold this is where. science can get ahead of itself and be. so reductionist but you know we are. whole systems of enormous. complexity um and science tries to DEC. complexify and disambiguate things so.

it's very narrowly focused so they have. a stimulus response they can measure. that's not way the human uh immune. system works you know it's a it's a. Entourage effect and a Synergy and. keeping that in balance is the key now. there's between two and 20 million. species of. fungi uh about 10% about. 140,000 species to 200,000 species or so. are mushroom forming fungi we've only. identified.

14,000 but there's another really. curious. phenomenon about 1% of mushrooms are. poisonous about 1% of them are edible in. choice about 1% of them are. psychoactive or psilocybin present the. other 97% they're just you know they. just don't taste good they're not. poisonous they're not of an interest but. what do you think is going on with the. amonita muscaria. because the Amon mcar is one where.

there's this historic use there's all. this mythology that's connected to Santa. Claus and shamans and elves and all. these different things but most of the. people that I know that have tried it. have not been able to experience like. extreme psychoactive. effects I have consumed am muscaria and. Amon pantherina um on multiple occasions. and and my emn M miseria but higher.

doses it's it's a somniferous it can put. you to sleep I get dog yellows and. Browns it's not a euphoric experience. dog yellows and Browns what do youan. dark the colors are not bright you know. it's not like you're flying saucer in. the background here everything is very. very diminished in terms of of the. colorama you know it tends to be muted. colors Reds and Browns but not blues and. you know fractals so you're talking. about what you see that is uh.

hallucination or are you talking about. like actual colors that you see look. differently actually colors I look uh. look at uh are different so it changes. the the visual Spectrum it changes the. visual Spectrum now amonita pantherina. see an mcer has musil muscarine and. ibotenic acid actually have very little. muscarine um but and the muscarinic. symptoms cause you to salivate. and you send up you know salivating and.

tearing and um lactating Etc so it's a. um so these shamans in Siberia by. consuming am muscaria they would remove. the muscarinic symptoms and then the. urine because they biofilter it through. their body it would be high in ibotenic. acid and and in mimo and these are the. the sense purifies it so I mean this is. a legend that's mixed up in fiction and. fact. and fables I will say in the field of.

micology from my experience now over 47. years studying this subject many of the. folklore has been validated only Lately. by science so before people are super. skeptic and think this is has no. relationship well with a Santa Claus. myth H okay the am mascaria grows. underneath you know trees Tre the fur. trees fur trees are Christmas trees. there's the. Berserkers and Legend is is that the. Berserkers are surrounded you know 10 to. one by an very powerful Army um these.

Norwegian Scandinavians were going to be. slaughtered the next day they made a. giant pot of am muscaria you know a brew. they drank it and then at dawn high as a. kite on the enemy moscara they took off. all their clothes and they just became. these mechanistic Warriors that attacked. the other side freaked them out and they. won the battle so that was the how the. word berserk came about from the. Berserkers they went berserk and so.

that's the origin of that and it is. amonita mcara that we're assuming they. took am muscaria but am pantherina does. not have uh muscarine in it so I ate am. muscaria several times I was with my. friend and I looked at him and he was. foaming with bubbles all over around his. mouth I said dude you look like you have. rabies he goes you should see what you. look like so we're both like and so um. and it put you to sleep the biggest. concern about am muscaria is hypothermia.

by most of us experts because you can. actually fall asleep in the snow and. then you could get hypothermia and die. um very people few people have if any. have ever died there's one potential. report has killed dogs um but there's a. repetitive motion syndrome that's very. very strange and I at am to. pantherina as well and I don't think I. told you this story about my pantherina. experience I don't want to be redundant. here but I had a heroic experience on.

amn pantherina and that one. was. very uh I had repetitive motion and. syndrome and I was living up in the. mountains I had freeze-dried amn. pantherina I knew it didn't have. muscarine I'd eaten muscaria I foamed a. lot it wasn't that much fun so I knew. pantherina was four to five times more. potent so I took the free dried. specimens from the herbarium from the. college I was working at I was living in.

underneath a volcano up in darington. Washington and I was with my friend Dave. and he had he smaller body weight so we. made an omelet let's try panthero and he. trusted me um note to self note to. others and so we ate the pantherina um. in an omelette and I cut the omelet. bigger for me because I'm bigger body. weight than him and we ate the mushrooms. like at 10:00 in the morning you know. and an omelette they're delicious and uh.

Dressed across the river was a Squire. Creek Creek Campground and it's where. the tourists come up and their wi bagos. and you know campers and their families. and stuff and we're long-haired hippies. and um I said you know just on the other. side there it's a hill that we can get. up on the Hills side it's an incredible. view of the valley the snow capap. volcano just a great Vista let's go. there so we for some reason is so close. but we drove my car like you know a.

th000 feet to this Campground went over. the bridge over this little river we. parked you know you know just on the. outside of the campground right where. all the campers are and so we walked. past you know all these tourists and her. families and we went up on the hill and. then we're sitting up on the hill and uh. waiting for the mushrooms to come on in. like an hour nothing no experience like. you know what's going on and this is. very typical by the way this is. characteristic em mcar and pantherina. take a long time before the onset of. first symptoms and then I we're up on.

the hill and I'm looking out the her. right beautiful view and. suddenly what was. that this look this sort of this this. wave came through our visual field like. this invisible wave and I said did you. feel that and he goes yeah I felt that. too and like whoa we're feeling the same. thing and. then. and our visual feel start getting. distorted and they start coming on so.

fast we're going holy we got to get. out of here you know this is coming on. too fast let's go back home and be it's. more intense so we walk back through and. I have a roll Flex camera 35 mimet been. a photographer all my life and uh and. they were walking through the backside. of the campground and there's all these. kids and families and window bagos and. camper vans and and then I remember this. this one Wago it like the longest Wago.

in the universe every time I was. walking it was a win Bago of no end I. couldn't get past this one wagel I kept. on. walking my friend and then finally we. got past this window Bago it seemed like. it took forever and there's my car and. for some fraking reason I locked the. door and I have my keys. and I looked at the key hole the door.

and I looked at my keys I. went miss that. one did it again miss that one just a me. and my friend goes everything okay Paul. because everything's fine just give me. some time and then you know after I. don't know how many times magically just. by the fact that I tried so many times I. think it just slipped into the lock and. unlocked the door and okay so I sit in. the car and now I have to put it in the.

ignition and I'm going boom Oh no boom. my friend goes maybe you shouldn't. drive yeah good advice maybe I shouldn't. drive so uh there's no way I couldn't it. was getting more and more intense it. we're not responsible to drive you know. so absolutely the right decision not to. drive so then I got out of the car and. the camera was on my lap and and then I. got out of my car and you know meanwhile. a group of people started Gathering cuz.

we were there for a long time trying to. get into the car and then trying to and. so these people got kind of curious and. Dave goes you know some people over. there are kind of gathering Paul looking. at us and oh God I didn't want to look. at them and so I I get out of the car. and my camera Falls and it hits the. ground I go oh my I just dropped my. riflex camera and then I picked up the. camera I'm going. wow I just dropped my RO Flex camera I.

drop it again oh no and I pick it up I. go did I just drop my camera dropped it. again repetitive motion syndrome I. picked up that camera and dropped it. dozens and dozens of times oh my God. meanwhile the the cluster of people got. larger parents were were holding their. children close to them say we don't know. what's going on here but it's getting. weird over there so pretty soon I had a. very large group these campers all. watching us came in their distance and I.

this repetitive motion syndrome of. dropping and dropping and dropping and. so finally you know we had the staccato. Pace the timeline of the day got broken. up so I had morning when we ate then I. had evening then I had early afternoon. and then I had early morning then I had. late afternoon then I had evening the. whole threat of time was disintegrated. like and scrambled and so then we walked. and uh and and I lost Dave you know Dave. I figured Dave you're on your own buddy.

I got enough to work deal with here and. so we walked over and we walked over. this bridge and we got to my place and I. got to my house and I had a combination. lock on the door I oh my God last thing. I need is another so I spun that. combination lock and I couldn't get it. open and and then I went into. convulsions and they felt good so I'm. convulsing on the ground spiking like. this and every time I convulsed right. afterwards it actually felt good and so. like you know I'm convulsing but it.

seems to be helping me so I convulsed. and you know thrashed in on the ground. don't know where happened to Dave and so. I go back to the lock and I spun it and. it's magically the lock opened up and. then I fell into bed and then I had this. amazing Rush of Einstein Ein Ein. steining thoughts the thoughts were just. so profound I go oh my gosh if I could. write these down these are just like so. important you know conclusions of great. Mysteries of the Universe I have this at. my hand and just before I came to the.

object of the. sentence I would have a prepositional uh. or adverbial phrase and then i' get a. tangent oh no and I saw death then has. been Perpetual tangents that never gave. you the satisfaction of having completed. thought so I went down this Rabbit Hole. of constantly Forks toi thinking and. then I blacked out and um and then at. the end of the day um you know the.

sunlight came through the 12-hour. experience this is a long experience and. so it was the summertime then at you. know the very end of the the day the. sunlight came through and flickered on. my eyelids and and and I woke up and uh. and my friend was convinced I was trying. to kill him because I was a mushroom. expert so um I had no idea this was be. be this intense where he where where was. he during this time um he ended up in. the in the cabin and safe but he was.

like like a statue you know he was just. there sitting when I got up just looking. straight forward um and we spoke a few. words the next day and for the next few. days and then um you know Dave uh went. on his life journey I think he's. convinced to this day that I knew what. would happen but this speaks to the. Berserkers the idea of repetitive motion. syndrome Andy wild who have you had on. this show he was at Cougar Hot Springs. and he was going to the trail to Cougar.

Hot Springs and somebody ran down the. trail said we need a doctor we a doctor. this this person up there's trying to. kill himself and and he's a doctor so he. goes up there and there's this big. hippie guy and he's on this log or on on. the bridge swinging his legs wildly. covered with blood and before Andy's. eyes this guy throws himself off the. bridge and right onto the rocks and the. creek down below you know 10 ft or more. below. smashes himself and gets stunned and.

looks around and walks back up and gets. on the bridge again and throws himself. off the bridge so this is why if. someone had killed somebody uh on M mcar. or pantherina I would testify as an. expert witness they're out of control. they have no control of their repetitive. motion syndrome if you wrote read watch. Tales from the Crypt or some witnessed. something violent because you went but. when you Reem you enact there's no. control of your memory and your action.

so pharmacologically that's must be. really interesting you know neuros. scientists have been studying this for a. long time we can't quite figure it out. but I think this underscores the point. that mushrooms are uh chemical Wizards. these are they are have enormous. potential for exotic molecules that. interface with human health and there's. a huge pharmacopia microf pharmacopia. inside of mushrooms that have not been. fully explored I think it's true with. the gacon I think it's true with the Sol.

cybin mushrooms uh certainly true with. am muscaria Etc so ironically amn. muscaria is legal there's no. restrictions you can possess a 100. pounds of it but you can't possess a. tenth of a gram of soloc cybin mushrooms. without breaking federal law schedule. one so how can a mushroom that makes you. happier less violent you know resolve. your PTSD depression Etc how could that. mushroom remain illegal and yet am mcer.

and pantherina are are legal so it's. just a the J position but for the record. no species should be illegal it's the. huus of humans to think that we can. dictate that a species is illegal that. is fundamentally wrong agreed um my. question was about the amonita muscaria. because you're talking about a gon and. how many different strains there are and. how different strains are effective at. different things one of the things that. McKenna believed was that because he had.

never really had a positive experience. with am muscara but there was so much. attached to it he thinks that it was. probably variably variable genetically. variable seasonally variable just so. much like a gon there's probably many. different strains of amonita so these. ones that they were attributing to like. the sacred Mushroom in the cross John. Marco allegro's book on um amonita mcar. and the Bible do you think that it's. possible that at one point in time there.

was psychoactive strains of Ammon. muscaria that vary from the ones that. people have that have these different. sort of more mundane effects absolutely. uh these are we call them phenotypes you. can call them strains or phenotypes it's. a variety within a species but. pharmacologically we already see that. with a sosop mushrooms some of them are. really high in soloc cybin very low in. sosin high in BOS nor BOS nor lower so. we see this not only cross species wise.

but inside of a species with the. phenotypes some phenotypes of solosy. evenses are extremely potent and other. ones are not so strains do matter and. this is why with the gacon I think. strains do matter the fact that we found. one strain of aacon that supports. immunity and looks like it helps extend. uh the efficacy of vaccines is a home. run you know what are the other strains. capable of doing right that's what I'm. was getting at it's like God we seem so. underfunded with something that has so.

much potential I'm funding it you know. I'm glad you are so I I spend enormous. amounts of my financial resources on. Research that's why I created my company. you know I started my company packing. boxes by myself you know I'm not ashamed. to admit that I laid in bed crying many. many nights I was bouncing checks my. suppliers were shutting me down no one. was there to help me I was by myself I.

packed 30,000 boxes before I had a. single employee I I got accepted the. five graduate schools and I couldn't. afford to go CU I didn't have a. scholarship and I had a young. family my my daughter I was very Adept. at catching my daughter from her. backpack as I leaned over the pack of. box cellophane tape will not stick at 35. degrees I can tell you that wow and I. actually I mean I I don't want to flood. the Airways but if you call uh. 36426.

8255 you'll get the public utility. district and why I know that number. ingrained is my lawyer said if you call. the utility company and telling me. you're sending a check they legally. cannot shut off your power so I thought. okay for 10 years at 8:01 in the morning. on the date of disconnection I would. call the public utility district to say. I'm sending in a check oh boy and after. a while I heard heard this noise and. then many years later I met some of the. people who goes you know you're a legend.

I go what do you mean he says we all. gathered around the phone at. 801 on disconnection day betting that. stamus would or not would not call and. everybody who bet that I would not call. loster bets and at the end everyone. would just cheer it's Paul and I hear I. think they're having a party in the. background no it's Paul calling it 801. that's hilarious I maximized my cash. flow wow and thankfully I had a local. bank and the local bank one of the. Border members said how much money did.

he pay in overdraft fees and there an. extraordinary number of you know $5,000. and he goes you're he's one of your best. customers man they should keep him so I. built this this business Blood Sweat and. Tears now I have 150 employees I own the. whole company I'm very grateful to them. it's we. call a Starship FP that's like your your. comedy clubs the mothership right so our. company is known as Starship funi. perfectti and uh people want to track us. down where at fungi.com fi.com I.

registered that myself for 28 bucks nice. when did you get that what year. 1992 oh yeah you early you had to be. super early to get that it's funny. people write it down and go it's a. kingdom you don't have to write it down. it's fungi.com so that's amazing that. you got that domain but um I used your. stuff I've I've had your stuff at my. house for a long time I think it's great. and I'm so happy that you're out there. really am I'm I'm happy that mean. there's not a lot of Paul stamets in the. world and there there are a lot of.

unsung heroes I I have I'm sure you're. so humble but my point is that it's like. we really need um research in this stuff. we need a lot a lot of research and the. research is becoming increasingly. credible it's the University of Arizona. medical school Andy wild Center program. for Integrative Medicine University of. California San Diego UCLA um Harvard. actually um and other institutions uh. they're very excited now because this. has been sort of like Weird Science you.

know yeah that's what I was going to get. at I was going to say there's the. there's this real reluctance to believe. that people in the past had answers that. we don't have today this is this this um. almost religious belief in modern. science and also this belief that the. the the transition of knowledge has been. fully complete from ancient people to. today and there's nothing has slipped. through the net that's that doesn't seem. to be the case and also for sure they. didn't they didn't have the ability to. document things at least and and.

preserve those documents to today like. we can today with the in in regards to. research in regards to what you could. find out and the modern Laboratories and. just what you're able to do to find out. which of these mycelium strains are. effective which of them are not at least. for the particular thing you're looking. for like all this you you've got to. assume at one point in time people had. some sort of knowledge about this stuff. that we just have lost we had to we were.

so dependent upon the environment yeah. we know what plants are edible from the. experiences of our ancestors who ate. them before us and it doesn't discredit. modern medicine to say that these people. had this extraordinary understanding of. what was beneficial absolutely and um. this is where the huus of science we. should be very careful right because uh. the importance of biodiversity cannot be. overstated um biodivers anywhere hubus. anywhere every single place it shows its. head it it up in everything even.

in martial arts guys that think that. they can't lose go in and get up. it happens all the time huus is terrible. it's just ter it's it's the the human. ego trying to keep itself from being. like just to to recognize its true place. which is just part of an infinite sea of. things that are happening simultaneously. and you're not really that important you. are important but every everything is. important and you're not more important. than anything it's all together I.

totally agree and it seems to be. unfortunately lopsided in favor of the. white chromosome so hubis and the white. chromosome yeah 100% we're we're the. fault of it all that's true that's 100%. true but that's also why we invent. everything it's just like we we are a. bizarre subset of the the humans that. causes so much chaos and so much good at. the same time well I have great hope for. the future I I think Sometimes some days. I do today is a good day today maybe cuz. you're here okay maybe have good I mean.

thank goodness that we live in these. times that we do with all the problems. that we face and look at the medical. advances that we've made I'm getting hip. surgery in two weeks I can were just. talking about that you know you also are. a martial artist and all the years of. throwing kicks you've worn one of your. hips out yep I have quite a few friends. have had that done my friend John Wayne. par who's still active's he's got a. fight coming up soon he had a hip. replacement fought after the hip. replacement at least once I think he. fought twice yeah my surgeon said.

besides cataract surgery this the the. best medical innovation has the greatest. difference in patients before and after. surgery than hip surgery yeah well I. told you about Graham hanock he had his. done and then six weeks later he's. walking around here my mom just had her. knee done uh and she's fine it's great I. was so nervous about it I just didn't. want her to do it I wanted her to get. stem cells I wanted her to try to treat. it and just the biggest concern we have. is Mera you know that's a big one. terrifying that's terrifying that's but.

I know quite a few people have gotten. that as well yeah so Jiu-Jitsu is a. breeding ground for that you get. scratches and scrapes and then they get. infected it happens all the time. specifically just staff specifically but. Mera exists too I know quite a few. people that back in the day we always. would we wiping up the mats of blood I. mean now now you can't you can't have. blood you know in the dojo or the dojang. you know yeah you know it's considered. to be a health hazard so it's so much.

more restricted now perhaps not in the. mixed Marsh shorts that you're involved. but well the thing about the grappling. is uh just the scrapes you're constantly. getting scraped up you can kickbox in. spats and you know rashguards and you. you're probably going to mitigate a lot. of the scratches and scrapes you know. with gloves on and foot gear and all. that Jaz but if you're grappling you're. you're constantly grinding things on. those mats and you're getting scratches. from fingernail and you're getting. accidental you know collisions that. cause little cuts and abrasions and they.

get infected Y and people that don't. like my friend Ari he had no idea he had. staff I had I gave him a year of. Jiu-Jitsu for Christmas and he and I. were at the pool hall and uh this still. scares me to this day because I think he. came close to dying he was walking. around with a limp and I go I go what's. wrong with your leg and he goes I got. bit by a spider bite I go let me see it. he pulls his knee up he's got a massive. staff infection on his knee I go dude. that's staff I go we got to go to the.

hospital right now he goes are you. serious I go right now and I broke my. queue down I go we got to go right now. you have to go to the hospital man you. have a bad staff infection and he was. up for a while from it he got. through it the antibiotics worked. thankfully it wasn't Mera it wasn't. medication resistance stas infections. and it was just horrific well this this. speaks to again innate immunity you know. if you're and nature is a numbers game. you know you have different coefficient. variables on one side of the equation. the other side of the equation is health. or disease MH and so how can you stack.

that to your favor right you have to be. robust you have to eat well you have to. take vitamins you have to get exercise. and you know it seems like mushrooms can. help you quite a bit I I'm a big fan of. lion's man I take Lions man every day. that's one of the big ones that I. take yeah you know but I I wanted to ask. you this like are there better ones to. take are there is is a tinure better. than capsules is capsules better than. tincture good questions um the extracts. allow you to activates directly to to.

the mosa so it gets into your. bloodstream but for instance turkey tail. linm and Aaron are very good as. prebiotics uh for the the uh microflora. in your stomach uh double blind Placebo. controlled study again go to mushroom. references. comom um with uh amoxicillin. patients where they might their. microbiome and they guts destroyed. because of this potent antibacterial. antibiotic and so they found when they. gave turkey tail mushroom melum again. double blind if placeo controlled and.

they looked at their microbiome the. those who took turkey tail melum uh. recovering with amoxicilin end up um. upregulating beneficial bacteria and. down down regulating staff and claustrum. Etc uh lactobacillus acidophilus uh and. uh ambo bacterium were upregulated these. are beneficial bacteria so there's an. example that also if you orally ingest.

then you could set up the microbiome to. a higher state of Readiness uh to help. whole stasis you know Health um and then. you absorb the components directly in so. it again it tends depends on what your. target is if it's General immunity. support than the oral. ingestion if you're concerned about the. Port of Entry you know like a of a. pathogen through the. mosa then obviously you know oral.

introduction in so far as it supports. immunity can Stave off the entry point. of the of those pathogens so would you. recommend both a tincture and capsules. so the tincture would Stave it off at. the source I I cannot respond to anyone. using the question recommend okay I can. say what I personally do is a. combination of both okay again Nature's. a num game I just ask you that from now. on what do you do so you know I don't. want to get you trapped in these.

conundrums yeah it's um so you you take. both tincture form and capsule form yeah. I take a a throat spray uh which has a. Gana turkey tail in it I I love it. that's what I use all the time when I go. to concerts and in crowds Etc Smart in. the morning I'm taking Lions man turkey. tail and and a gacon I'm 68 I know you. look great I well the talking about hus. I my partner is a medical doctor and. every time that I feel like I feel like.

I'm 30 I don't feel my age at all the. next day I fall off a ladder 12 Feet. Again hubris bam so I have to be careful. what I say now hubis is real it is and I. think Nature has a sense of humor to. whack you up on the side of the head to. teach the universe has a sense of humor. yeah there's there's certain aspects to. it that almost seem like it's playing. like very subtle jokes. we're at the beginning of just be uh. understanding the importance of the. biodiversity of the ecosystems that's.

given us birth right this is really a. it's it's a. Continuum um but I why I'm really. excited about the. Innovations of what's happening with. cilos ibin and cilos ibin and lions man. in particular something I'm very excited. about neurogenesis neurogeneration. neuroplastic neuro regeneration four. different things but they all segue into.

this concept of uh the neurological. systems being improved using components. within mushrooms and that's something. that I think has a lot of potential for. us especially as we age it really is. interesting how as we get old and as the. science all these things advances we. realize how shallow it really was just a. few decades ago and how little we knew. about the effects of these things just. various just including vitamins and. minerals and all the different. supplements that people take that have.

shown to be beneficial it's like this is. a very recent thing in terms of human. history of our current understanding. like our scientific understanding of. mechanisms of vitamins yep I'm um I'm. keen on it you know it's the absence of. vitamins that you see the delaris. effects so it's like you know research. by absence you know vitamin C know. scurvy Etc um but I'm very keen on um on. stacking you know in micro doing that's.

something that we've had a lot of. activity and I'd like to give you a huge. thank you and this is very sincere to. you and to the JRE audience and Jimmy. can we put up that sign the nature. article on micro. doing a. no worries and basically when I was here. last we were talking about micro doing.

and I came up with a stack of lion's man. and um a micro do of C cybin below the. threshold of feeling it and niin. nicotinic acid which is a a flushing. form and we did a call out for people to. join and download an app at micro do.me. is for iPhones and droids so they could. measure before and after effects of.

micro doing and what we found and we. published. this um this is the first article that. we published um and this was in. 2019 I believe oh 20. 2021s uh this is under motivations if we. go to the next. article well we can stop here for a. second but just look at the the tile. here adults who micro do psychedelics. report health related motivations and.

lower levels of anxiety and depression. compared to non-micro doers what does. that mean health related motivations why. are you micro doing because you are. don't feel creative because you're. depressed because you're have anxiety. this is the. extraordinary metric and this is. something you may not realize this. majority of this came from your audience. this audience right now but if you look. at that. 4,600 non-micro. doers and only 4,000 micro.

doers Joe do you have any idea we have. more citizen scientists who are. non-micro doers who jumped into this app. this is why the editors at nature like. this study because it was called so well. weighted so well weighted because there. the the non-micro doers exceeded in this. case fairly comparable but 4,000. 653 non-micro doers who downloaded the. microdose.me app to measure performance.

and how they felt so and Jamie if we. could go to the next the next let's be. clear here they they're non-micro doers. but they micro doed for the study nope. no nope they didn't all they did is got. these these challenge tests memory tests. so they took the the the app they. downloaded the app but they didn't do. anything to their Consciousness they. didn't do any micros thing at all okay. so and this is why they were and then. why do you think so many of them that.

don't micro do signed up for that we. have no fraking clue you you tell us wow. I I think it may have been citizen. scientists who wanted to get a baseline. first and then have you considered. people lying because they don't want you. to know that they micro do it's. Anonymous you know yeah but people are. scared the next one if you would with a. author correction psilocybin micro doers. demonstrate greater observed. improvements in mood and mental health. Heth at one month relative to non-micro. doing controls we had why did they had. to make a CR well let me show the next.

slide with a. graph if you can see it the um the. reason why is that there was a typo in. the original article oh and it's the one. with a bar graph if you can see. it and um email list I got it's a little. tough to find the links sorry no. worries how long have you had this. company host defense I've started the. that host defense brand about. 2004 is what I started I see them. everywhere now I see them in health food.

stores and we're the number one. mushroom based immune product line get. excited for you I see them pa okay this. is yeah we'll just go this is the this. is the app we can go through four slides. here that that'll be great so this is. the app micro. do.me I encourage everyone listening to. help us because now the app has been. improved it was a little bit laborious. before we want to go out to 3 months we. want non-micro doers and micro doers but.

please the non-micro doers we need your. input these are challenge tests and so. these are Acuity tasks. that actual app itself there's Vision. hearing. memory um there is um how do you feel. Etc so can I ask you before I forget y. who was the scientist that uh ran those. studies a long time ago where they. showed that uh psilocybin in low doses. uh increased uh Edge detection it.

increased your ability to see whether. two parallel lines one of them had gone. off of parallel I I do know of the. reference I do not remember foreign. scientists I I yeah you're you have a. good memory but better than mine I don't. remember the name of the of the. scientist but this is a long time ago. long time ago yeah this is probably in. in the 60s or something like that so um. and then if. we so these these tasks have they.

demonstrated that the people that are. taking the micro do have better results. in these absolutely are you filtering. out for you know healthy user bias IQs. occupations we we have there takes five. minutes to enter into the the data set. to create your profile it's Anonymous. you own your data uh it's gone through. institutional review boards at the. University of British Columbia right. it's all been carefully vetted you own.

your data nobody else gets to see what. you've done or your frequency it asks. you your age asks your income uh your. nationality or your your occupation to. not ask ask occupation education. education yes yeah whether we have a. college degree high school or whatever. um so we have a tremendous I mean we. have literally millions and millions of. data points. the the data FS so robust now we're. trying to narrow it to confirm what we.

saw in the first studies micro doing is. associated with a massive relief of. depression a relief of anxiety increase. in mood and now we have customized it. for more not so much subjective effects. but cognitive demonstratable skill. Improvement because is of course people. when the people feel better they feel. better um some people could say that's.

an expectancy or a placebo it's ironic. because it's like a patient coming into. a doctor saying I feel better and they. go no you don't you can't feel better. it's placeo but doctor use expectancy. all the time every time you go to a. doctor you expect they're going to have. a medicine and good medical advice you. want a kind and caring physician every. time you go to a five or four star. restaurant you expect the food is going. to be good so you can't we're humans. we're complex you can't divorce one's. motivation for getting a treatment away. from the expectancy effect on that.

treatment right so does the expectancy. enhance the medicine that's the question. uh if people are not depressed and not. less prone to suicide and you saved them. from suicide isn't that what Physicians. want to do they want to help their. patients be better so the the stacking. results though is what. we found to be most surprising and most. extraordinary do do you measure do do.

you ask the people to go through the. visual Acuity or the the different tasks. um sober first to get a Baseline and. then see if there's Improvement for. micro doing or do you just show that the. group that micro does has higher levels. of. proficiency you know I don't think we. ask them the question if they're sober. at the time they take the test but not. even so because we're talking about. micro. doing they but did you ask them they use.

marijuana does it measure does it. measure the difference between them. before micro doing and them after micro. doing yes it does it does so so you had. a baseline so before you ever micro do. I'd like you to take these tasks and do. these puzzles and whatever whatever what. kind of things you have visual well we. visual we have cognitive uh uh tests we. have Acuity test we have hearing hearing. yeah hearing are you using headphones or. you using just their tones off off the. phone so you be a whether you can hear. things as as a as an auditory uh.

challenge is it dependent upon the. volume of the phone you as that's you're. asking really really good questions. because the type of phone the type of. speaker iPhone 12 or iPhone 15 the newer. phones are much better it gets much more. complicated um than the other tests and. so we have a it's narrowed down now what. we really want is people to go for three. months so the signal that we got in 30. days was extremely strong but we need to. be able to repeat the results to confirm.

and then we want to extend the micro. doing window of testing to three months. now people only need to once they get. their Baseline they only need to report. once every two weeks or once a month so. it's a much less burdensome for the. people joining micro do.me to perform. the task they can see their results. compared to the average so there's a. dashboard that's present so they can see.

where they are relatively the average um. and eventually they will have access to. all their own data but it's all. anonymized it's all protected it's on. servers in British Columbia so it's all. you know tightly controlled so the. anonymity uh is is assured Jamie are you. able to find that that chart I don't. know be honest this go back to um next. slide if you could next. one next one it's a finger tapping test.

let me just okay this is the one I want. us to focus on this is is why there was. an author correction the P value of. significance here is. 0.4 that mean there's one chance in 250. that this this is a random result this. is published in nature scientific. reports went through peer review we. didn't see any increase the tap test is. how often you can tap tap your two. fingers together in 10 seconds for those. of who have traumatic brain injury and.

you probably know a number of these. people traditionally they do a tap test. Alzheimer's dementia Parkinson's they do. tap tests unfortunately there's a steady. decline but the tap tests has been. invalidated and just another article. came out this past week saying that uh. handheld devices are validated medically. now for patient reports so this is the. part that blew all of us away is that. the green line is people taking the.

stamina stack which is cilos census. approximately 1/10th of a dried gram 500. milligrams of Lies made melium and 50. milligrams of flushing niin those three. together now the non-micro doers you can. see over 30 days no significant increase. in the tap testing micro doers only with. cybin the Blue Line soloc cybin only not. statistically significant but those. people who were taking the stack went.

from tapping 48 TAPS in 10 seconds to 68. TAPS in one month wow think about that. think of you're on a computer you're a. guitar player you're a drummer think. about walking to the bathroom and not. falling yeah think about this this is. not subjective this is an affirmation of. an improvement in Psycho Motor. Performance wow now here you'll ask me. the question again yeah athletic. performance how does this work we don't.

know how it works we just know that it. does work wow so we want to extend this. out to 90 days we want to see maybe the. the micros with soul and blue only maybe. that starts to uptick maybe it's delayed. and then it increases we maybe this this. this green line with the stamina stock. maybe it ulates and and sens or maybe it. accelerates but I look this up and for. you to do the tap test involves six.

regions of your. brain you look at your fingers you I you. ideate you look at your fingers you. start your psychom motor Cadence you get. a feedback from touching the table and. that feeds you back and then you develop. a rhythm a rhythm and so we we let. people tap test for several days so they. go up the learning curve so we don't. include them in the first several days. and then then people that they practice.

but then we see this result so I think. we're on to something really exciting. here that value of p is 04 One Chance in. 250 it's very hard I mean you can't say. it's expectancy you can't say it's. Placebo it's a performance skill that's. being demonstrated so now I chose n. because Sal sabin's a Vas constrictor. nin of vasodilator I chose a flushing. form of nin because you tingle and I.

thought wow if we get the neurogen. neurogenic benefits of Soul syon that's. get it to the end points of the. peripheral nervous system neuropathies. often times present themselves the. deadening of the fingertips and the toes. so with Vaso dilation you get more blood. flow to where the neuropathy is. occurring um and then Li Lion Man well. demonstrated again mushroom references. comom you can you know many many. references up showing that l made. mycelium contains these compounds called. arines that rebuilds helps rebuild.

myelin on the accents of nerves to. enable signal trans transmission and. also stimulates ngfs nerve go factors. for the proliferation and the extension. of the neurites to further grow so I. stack those three together and again I. have I'm a co-author in the paper I had. no access to this data in fact they. called me up says we see a signal. we don't believe it we're taking we're. not going to take we're taking the data. set back and they attacked it three.

different ways with separate uh. statistical methods and the data held. true and so we know there's an increase. in psychom Motor Performance so there's. a lot of musicians now that are very. keen on taking the stock and they're. they're saying they bjo playing is. better yeah think if you're you've been. playing the guitar or teaching piano all. your life you're dependent upon this. digital dexterity to be able to have. your Acumen and your digital dexterity.

as you age helps you pass down knowledge. to the Next Generation I mean this is. really exciting um we need to. disambiguate it we need a big data set. and I'm calling out the Joe Rogan. experienced listeners especially you. non-micr doers we need you and then we. need everyone to go at least three. months at least populate the Baseline. and check in month one uh month two and. month three we need to see if this data. holds up cuz I was actually surprised I. thought cocy and microdosing by itself.

would have had greater liftoff on the. psycle motor performance than we saw I. suspect it will have liftoff more so if. we go to the month two or three but we. don't know let the data in the science. lead but the fact that we got the signal. and again how does it work why does it. work where does it work folks it works. right right you you get you don't see a. force for the trees because you're so. conflicted in trying to understand the. mechanism of action well I'd like to see.

it applied to other tests have you ever. seen those tests that they do where they. have like an electronic wall and there's. lights and the light when it goes off. you're supposed to tap it Y and so. there's a bunch of them like a lot of. boxers use them they use them to. heighten their reaction time we have. that on the on the app also oh nice we. flowers flowers there you go tap tap tap. tap tap tap and you have to do it again. but the thing about the the one that you. have to touch is you have to actually. move your body right so you're moving. your arms you're reaching down you're. going up you and they're all in front of.

you and you never know which one's going. to light up this is just the beginning. if that type of model that you just. described would to me would be much more. informative than the tap test have you. seen though you know what I'm talking. about right Jamie see if you can find a. video of those so you can show it to. them but I always wondered like why are. these guys doing that is like does that. really help fight does that help fight. performance I'm not sure I mean I think. sometimes like trainers get caught up in. technology and they have you doing. certain I think I I think your time. you're probably best spent using.

technique but I don't know I mean is. there a reason why that would like. lights going off would somehow or. another make you move better well see. you look how these things. work I mean what does that do into your. mind that is so. beneficial well that person is an. exceptional performer that's exceptional. that guy's on a dose right. now he's on the stam it stack oh this. girl's using her feet look at.

this interesting be faster but does it. actually make you faster I I think it. would you know I think it to a point you. know everybody plateaus when they. practice you know they end up practicing. to hitting 90% of the optimum of their. performance and then they hit sort of a. new Baseline and it's hard to get above. that right we hit that ceiling how do. you break break through that ceiling. right this I think is an opportunity to. break through that ceiling and it would. be really fascinating to see if it could. be applied to skills you know Sports and.

Athletics martial arts things along. those lines like it would be interesting. to see archery be interesting to see if. uh if it increases people's abilities is. um there are so many stories of. performance enhancement on low doses of. cybin yes um we've all heard them. assistant there's something there I've. experienced it with pool with pool yeah. the game becomes like 10% easier and see. this is why these observational studies. are important to Medicine clinical.

studies are based on early signals and. the clinical studies are trying to. refine reduce the variables to see a. cause and effect right but we only. clinical studies already started just. not out of the blue you know they have. to have a good theoretical basis. observational Studies by tens of. thousands of people create the signals. so the data set we have is so big we're. going to try to use AI to say what else. is hidden in this data the reason why we. T we went to the tap test is that so.

many of our beneficial outcomes were. depression anxiety mood these are all. subjective and so when I ask a physician. you know what is an objective test. that's not subjective she said oh we. have the top test you know so that's why. this is a demonstration of something. that is happening that performance. related that's outside of subjectivity. expectancy Etc this is performance.

measurement that's solid data and now. and think about this Joe they're getting. the soulside mushrooms in their. Underground Market you know we sell 50%. of the Lion's main products are out in. the market other people are selling. Lions main products they're getting. variable amounts of niin those are all. confounders that would reduce the. significance of that. data means that this data could be. understated if you standardize. everything to a standardized amount so.

we don't know how to where the how to. optimize you how far do you think we are. from some sort of a legalization of Sil. Sabin I think within five years yeah I. think it'll go from schedule one to. schedule three after the election or. schedule two for sure but cocy and I. mean s why why do you think after the. election specifically because everyone's. so worried about margins if you piss off. 5% of the people at least 5% of the vote. right no one wants to take a risk it. makes it look like they're weak on crime. or something like that yeah it's just.

something like but see this is the. beauty of the Sol Ian what I am very. encouraged by is law. enforcement I've met so many Law. Enforcement Officers now just let's. let's be real about this if you're a law. enforcement officer you have 100 100. arrest encounters are you going to be. perfect for the hund of them no if. you're a veteran and you have a hundred. Expeditions are you going to be perfect. with a 100 of them no if you're a doctor.

are you going to be perfect on 100 of. them no and you'll make a mistake. everyone has a really bad day do you. want that bad day to define the rest of. your life as a skeleton in your closet. or a monkey on your back where you do. did something that's fundamentally wrong. but you can't talk about it and then you. you then act out against other people. because you're in. turmoil there's so many law enforcement. people that have Jed CH churches there's.

one called the Define divine Assembly. Church in in Salt Lake City there's. another a church called The Church of. ambrosia in Oakland more than 100,000. people they're cloaking themselves. inside these churches for civil rights. protection but when they get together. with a community of other veterans and. law enforcement officers and they can. share their grief their sorrows mistakes. and not be condemned for it we lack. forgiveness in this Society we don't.

have enough people acknowledging their. mistakes without fear of Retribution and. saying I'm better than that one bad day. that's not going to Define my life and. so what's happening in Canada and the. United States to a degree is law. enforcement officers know that other. officers are benefiting from this so. they are deprioritizing Soul side been. decriminalizing it because they're. benefiting from it so these that's it's. a big thing among soldiers it's a big.

thing among soldiers I've met so many. yeah many many guys have had very very. beneficial experiences I I believe. humans are generally very good good. they're motivated by goodness but they. get hijacked because of a very bad day. or sequence of bad days because then. that becomes an inflammatory pathway. well sure this is the stress of the job. itself if you're in law enforcement. every day you could get shot every day. you might not come home to your family. every person you pull over with tinted. windows might blow you away before you.

get to the window can you imagine. walking up to a car with with Windows up. yeah you know of an unknown person and. you have one second to two seconds to. make a life in that decision I don't. want that responsib PTSD you're probably. already racked with anxiety because you. probably already experienced so many. things that most people could never. imagine that depression anxiety. frustration creates an inflammatory. response that depresses the immune. system that then can lead to diseases.

such as cancer vulnerability to viruses. you know and the anger issues emanate. outwards I all of us I think have been. infected affected by fentanyl you know. in my County Mason County Washington 17. people died in two weeks from fentanyl. 17 people a small County the fentol. crisis is killing some of the best of. our youth it's terrifying it's. terrifying it's terrifying because it's. it's unprecedented there's never been a. time where so many people are dying of.

overdoses and this accidental overdoses. from things and this should be the. priority of law enforcement does law. enforcement want to be on the wrong side. of History busting somebody for COC. Simon well that's going to go on their. resume and 10 15 20 years maybe five. years from now it'd be like busting. somebody for a marijuana where it's. legal in so many states right what do. what do you think that the the solution. to the fenal crisis is is it. legalization I mean this that's a tough. one right because legalization scares.

people because and and I would agree. with this that by for sure if hard drugs. are legal more people are going to try. them because they're more available. they're going to but you will at least. be trying the actual drug and not. getting like street valume that has. fentanyl in it or you or you have. criminal syndicates yeah that's the. other part of it the other part of it. and they have. basically addiction militias militias of. people who are addicts coming to them to.

give them money I'm not an expert on. drug policy there are other people that. are I would first take the step that all. natural products containing any schedule. one substance should be legal not. illegal COC cybin masculine you know you. could make the argument for LSD um I. think that you know that's the first. step is all natural products should be. legalized. decriminalization if you cannot get.

legalization and then having. decriminalization with. therapy I think um if we don't have. legal. constraints just like um speed limits on. the. highway do you really want anyone to. drive as fast as they can we do need. limits we have to throttle this down so. our structures are in place for us to be. able to make the best positive impact.

with the least amount of harm and that's. the Quagmire that we're in other. countries in the world and now Rick do. and Andy W can speak on this uh. eloquently um as many other people but I. want to stay in my Lane of mushrooms. when I think there's. over 200 species of cocy and. mushrooms 62 species in the genus. Salos and just recently I'm happy to say. I have a new species named after my me.

it's my colle just honored Me by naming. a new CS mushroom Salos stsi so I have. this I so this a new one that they. discovered they discovered in the. rainforest in Ecuador uh it's very rare. please don't pick it um but there's no. greater honor in myology didn't have a. species named after you you never name. it after yourself the field of medicine. you can do that with Parkinson's and all. MERS Etc uh but the field of micology. and botany you know it's an honor that's. bequeathed to you by other. scientists so the 162 species all over.

the world there's been over 5,000. collections of sside mushrooms since the. 1800s so they are bridges across. cultures across. centuries uh I would argue across. Millennia and any peoples living in that. ecosystem long enough would stumble upon. these C C mushrooms especially things. like. sensus which is a big golden mushroom. that's associated with cows you can't.

can't miss it right right you can see. sensas folks 200 feet away driving 55. miles an hour you know if you're tuned. in you can see them in the fields that. they're that glaringly obvious you pull. over and pick them um I I can't help. myself what do you uh for research for. research of course you're a research. you're actual myologist yeah um there. goes one what what is what's your take. on um Dennis McKenna's experience that. he had in the Amazon where the reality.

sort of broke down for a couple weeks um. Dennis is a dear friend of mine I love. that guy and Terrence is a dear was a. dear friend of mine Terren and I were. best buddies and I I love them both and. my brother John died he was my mentor. and Terrence dying also was with. Terrence to the end and um as Terren. always said Dennis is the real scientist. you know I'm a I'm a psychonaut. philosopher you know he the best command. of the English language of anyone I've.

ever met you know Terence and Dennis and. Terrence you know I think have made have. been courageous in their viewpoints of. pushing the envelope and this is where. it's really important again where is the. forgiveness in people you don't always. have to be. right the fact that you try and you fail. talking about some of ter terrence's. teror bizarre theories I mean the time. wave zero time wave zero is I. mean I'm sorry I challenged teren on.

this he had time wave zero explain that. to people that don't know what we're. talking about time wave zero is an. algorithm of historic events that steer. the course of humanity as best I. remember it and Terrence invented this. but the problem with time wave zero that. I pointed out to Terrence he said the. birth and death of Christ was not a. historically significant event. I said Terrence I know you're not. Christian but you can't deny that the. birth and death of Christ was not a.

historically significant event so it was. not in time wave zero well he was. skeptical of the existence of Christ as. an individual but even if Christ did not. exist the event of of of that period. would have be a significant event the. Crusades occurred all the stuff that. happened the creation of the Christian. religion the CH the creation of the. Christian religion was a historically. sck of an event that ramified throughout. history so terrence's time wave zero did. not recognize that from the best of my.

understanding I talked to Terren about. this lot and then he had the end of time. being the death on his birthday which. how convenient how convenient that's. what I said and so but then then but for. terrence's defense he had the best. answer I could ever have thought of. because I was saying I was vilifying. Terren this is and he. goes Paul it's an everchanging algorithm. I'll just keep on adjusting it and I. thought okay that was a good answer it's. a good answer but so the algorithm is. essentially based on taking historical.

events you know that that we know of. that are fact and putting them into this. database into a string that would then. predict other historical events that. will occur in the future and the but you. couldn't you couldn't predict the. specific event you would just predict. significant events that's my. understanding but I'm this is this is. was December 21st 2012 and nothing. really happened but did something happen. that maybe we were not.

aware there are many things happening of. which we're not. aware is it possible that a. significant change in the world happen. that we're not aware of well I mean. you're asking me to I mean the world. today is one thing if you did go back to. 2012 and looked at the world and then. looked at the world in 2024 it's. radically different it's pretty. wild and if you had to say like what. happened like historically when we look. back at the collapse of Western.

Civilization for SE let's say it all. goes sideways and we go into nuclear war. and this and that and the grid goes down. we're back to Stone Age. people if anybody survives if you go. back to you know that this time if a. thousand years from now people look back. in this time they'll they'll they'll be. looking at a sequence of events like. what happened caused all this what was. the what was the Catalyst was it social. media was it the the I mean December.

21st 2012 is a random number relatively. but just 12 2012 is a significant. beginning of the change of society in. terms of social media use yes I would. agree I think you had parse us out where. every single day as a historical event. of of greater or lesser significance. depending upon your point of view chat. GPT of course. when you look at things like that the. ubiquitous use of AI and the the fact. that it seems to be getting far more.

powerful far quicker than we could. predict yeah artificial intelligence I. think is misnamed I call it digital. intelligence it can be that but it's Al. ultimately natural intelligence you know. we have created artificial intelligence. you know we have given birth to this. technology it is from our natural. intelligence that we've created a subset. of artificial intelligence yeah 100. million microbes in a cubic inch of soil. you know 8 10 or more miles of melium.

cross talking all these organisms a. quorum that's in constant biomolecular. communication the infinite not infinite. but the enormous amount of complexity. that's under every footstep that we take. and we get so intoxicated by our new. invention that we think it's the. brightest object in the Christmas tree I. think AI is going to be fantastic for. medicine it's going to be fantastic so. many things but I don't think.

AI will be able to capture. intentionality or. generosity or the emotional indebtedness. we have when you find and find somebody. who's at a disadvantage who needs help. you reach out your hand in kindness It's. not a on toone transactional Exchange. the fact that you Joo helped somebody. else when you didn't need to and there's. no obligation circumstantially otherwise.

you voluntarily helped somebody you've. created a reciprocal debt of gratitude. that cannot fall into any metric I. believe that person's going to go Joe. helped me that guy is good I owe it to. myself and to him to pass it forward and. that's what I think is also happening. I'm going to like way back to Sol hbin. when you look at soloc iin a person's in. turmoil they're angry there's a great. example here in um um here in Austin.

with a police chief in the police force. there's one bad. actor and this in other law enforcement. officers were very worried this person. going to take that apartment down and he. was just should not be in law. enforcement he was angry he acted out. and they encourage him to go to a. weekend uh church and he recognized he. had problems he did a high dose of. solosy and he came back the next day. over the weekend on Monday and people.

did not recognize him he fundamentally. changed into a new person he lost his. anger issues he was polite considerate. he asked for. forgiveness think about that we don't. want to talk about negative things. because we're embarrassed and we share. the shame of a family member or but when. it's something positive of happens I'm. talking to you about it it's like a. pebble in the pond that emanates out. Echoes of goodness and good will yeah.

and that's where I don't think AI is. going to be able to cover and quantify. it might try to it might have higher. predictive outcomes based on the the. data sets but I just feel like you know. we need to train AI for our benefit we. need to learn from AI but the are. Humanity and who we are and our. intentionality and friendship and love. for each other I think will always be.

this super force that governs the. universe well that's a beautiful. sentiment uh I think our um our ability. to be kind to each other is very. important to us I don't know if it's. very important to the sun I I wonder if. what we are and the things that are so. valuable to us exist because it's sort. of motivates us and pushes Us in the. direction that we currently find. ourselves in where we're in a constant.

state of technological Evolution and and. Innovation and that this is all this is. what motivates us to do these things and. I wonder if these life forms that we are. creating and I think we are and I think. we're probably already we've probably. already done it and to a certain extent. that these don't have all of these same. values because they're not us but. they'll also be free of all the things. that do cause depression and do cause. anger and do cause.

irrationality and do cause harmful. thoughts and feelings and and and. painful memories and all those things. these are these are remnants of our. ancient primate DNA that is necessary to. us because we are trapped in it but. might not be necessary to whatever this. next stage of existence is yep I can see. that but you know families matter it. matters to the families they do but. they're finite these are experiences.

that we're having currently and it is. important currently it's important I so. I'm not diminishing it but I'm saying if. I had to take an overall perspective is. this the only way to do it no it's not. the only way to do it is our our our. emotions and our desires and needs the. things that have motivated us to get us. to this position that we're currently in. are those riddled with side effects like. war and murder and and and thievery and. all the things that we know that exist. in the world that are a part of the.

human condition if if you know if you. ask any rational person today what are. the odds we'll have no war in three. years zero zero humans have. always engaged in war. well what is that why is that well it's. because of the motivations they're all. the same they're the same motivations. that Napoleon had the same motivations I. think people who are abused with a child. have a tendency to become abusers when. they're. adults I think that psoc makes nicer. people I think so more more.

compassionate yeah and I'd like to. redefine the benefits in the theory of. evolution is not the survival of the. fittest but the extension of generosity. of surplus beyond your own needs to help. a neighbor or a friend I think we're. talking about different things because I. I agree with that wholeheartedly and I. think for human beings they're. extraordinarily beneficial and they have. been for me. my concern is that we are um we're like. Homo Sapien version one and that this. new thing that we become whether we.

integrate or whether we just die off is. is another thing I agree with you I. think we're at the crossroads uh the. crossroads one leads to an Extinction. path yeah and the other one is. sustainable because ultimately we cannot. continue and destroying the biosphere. and expect it to support us right yeah. and just our way of living is kind of. unsustainable long term it's uh the the. the the positive hope is that Ai and and.

science itself and technological. innovation will mitigate all the. negative side effects that we will. concentrate on using intelligence to. clean up the air and clean up the ocean. and do all the and sort of fix all the. problems that we've personally created. but I what I wonder is that we are so. attached to us to the idea of us with. all of our flaws are we any different. than Australia epicus if you told. Australia epicus hey buddy in the future.

everyone's going to have a phone in. their pocket and no one's going to need. all these muscles and hair all. over your face and back this is like. you're going to die off like you're not. going to be you anymore Australia picus. like get the out of here I got to. go gather food get away from me you're. an idiot I don't want to be you I want. to be me if if no more Australia picus. they all we all die off that would suck. because it's that's all you know mhm and. I I think that homo sapiens are not long. uh you asked very very good uh questions.

for which there's very few answers and. but I think the very Act of asking the. questions to stimulate the thought. creates the meu of creativity that will. come up with solutions to some of these. issues I hope so I would like to think. that we become an enlightened species I. think I would like to think that we get. our together psychedelics is the. best potential of Last Hope yeah really. is and it's funny that it's the most. undermined it's the most maligned. publicly the most dismissed as being. nonsense usually and almost entirely by.

people who haven't experienced it which. is really fascinating when you see. people that have not had psychedelic. experiences dismiss psychedelic. experiences that is a wild thing to do. like boy you are so silly and you don't. even know you're silly and you're the. majority which is wild yeah we represent. the less than the 1% of those who are. psychedelically experienced who. understand and many of the studies like. at John Hopkins what is what are the. numbers do we know like publicly like if. you have just the United States what. percentage of people have had like.

legitimate breakthrough psychedelic. experiences less than 1% less than one%. how many people have experimented with. psychedelics I think and depending on. the age group it actually is quite high. now you know it's up to 10. 20% but how do you explain the ineffable. how do you explain something that you. cannot put to words and this is where. it's just like oh you people are crazy. cuz you can't articulate it and then. every person that I know of who gone. through one of these heroic doses come. back and say oh my God I can't even. explain it exactly you know it's like we.

have a thin sliver of reality right now. Joe right we're look at you and and. Jamie we have such a thin sliver and. when you're under these experiences the. entire universe opens up and you see. that my my Consciousness has been so. limited and now I understand that I'm in. in relationship with everything in the. universe and it's also not just a. feeling this just intense visual. experience it's a feeling of being with. a capital B right and then you feel like.

oh my mortality that's okay you know my. birth that's a good part of the. Continuum I demize and I reassemble into. a different form or my molecules and. atoms reassemble you know I think this. is the Continuum of existence expands. the dawn of time to the end of time and. and even now Beyond I I think that it. gives me a great Solace from in my own. life to realize that I'm part of. something much larger I I want to sh I'm.

I want to share you my share with you my. Billy Graham story oh boy I've never. mentioned this. publicly I've taught over 3,000 students. um in vro propagation how to grow melium. edible mushrooms Gourmet mushrooms I did. these workshops for a long time and I. had this one very nice man came came in. young young 40s mid 40s he waited till. everybody was out of the room and this. is about 1995.

1996 and he waited and said Paul I I was. sent here oh boy and I go okay and I. said I said well who sent you said I'm. with a council of. 12 with Billy Graham the Charismatic. Christian. leader and he said many of the Council. of 12 have come to their Christian. beliefs through SOS hyen wow I have come. to thank you for all your work for.

helping us have a better relationship. with Jesus and our religious Faith wow. now I was I my mother was a Charismatic. Christian I grew up in that environment. I mean I was like of course Blown Away. what is a Charismatic Christian they. speak in tongues to do healings they're. they're you know they're they have their. own culture for sure. um but I've heard this now with Jewish. people Islamic people with the Buddhist. people it seems that psilocybin is.

doesn't create a conflict in religions. it supports you in your religious. beliefs of dedication to what you want. and hope to become as a religious. practitioner and follower but it's not. doesn't throw the other religions under. the bus it just makes you more dedicated. to your purpose to walk with kindness. and goodness and and. reciprocity uh to to be a better person.

do you think that silos sain was what. the host was made out of I don't know I. don't know have you heard that. speculation yes I have and um I think. that there's just this is so so rich in. history I just came back from Egypt a. few months ago and I went to 10 pyramids. on every pyramid we found mushroom. hieroglyphics every one of them now I. sent this through gram Hancock some of. these hieroglyphs and egyptologist said. no they're shovels and Jamie it' be a.

challenge for you to find this but you. you and one number one shovels will be. pointed down and it's a perfect example. well scientists don't look at Egypt in. the context of the ecosystem 4,000 years. ago right and the in Africa the plateau. of running Rivers the telan and jar. Plateau has fantastic the man figure. that Plateau was called the ri the. plateau of running Rivers there's no. Muslims growing there it's a desert same. with a Nile it was the Bread Basket of.

the world and the Greeks were the ucan. Mysteries you Caesar was a lover of. Cleopatra then Mark Anthony 20 years. younger than Caesar became a lover of. Cleopatra you would think that these. people the highest estata of society. would being lovers would share the most. Intimate Secrets and potions and all of. that I think think that happened so we. have now two other scientists have. published this before me that the the. hieroglyphs uh on these on these temples.

are of soulan mushrooms so so those look. like mushrooms that's one of them boy. they so look like mushrooms but there's. better ones okay now just pause on this. one so I want to give a shout out to. abdell aim uh he published this in. 2016 this is the goddess hathor the. dendura temple if you look this up it. gets less than one millimeter of rain a. year that's how dry it is those that's a.

vase there with these mushroom like. figures coming out and the lower part is. the Blue Lotus a water lily associated. with a mushroom now he published this in. 2016 I'm not the only one Stephen. Berlant in 2005 published this and a. fantastic individual African-American. who died from Co his name was uh Kiri um. and from Detroit he also believed from. his African ancestry uh that the African.

Egyptians use San mushrooms so that. image is. fascinating next one now what did they. what did they try to say that is you. can't say that's a bunch of shovels they. no but there's other ones so what what. is the conventional explanation for what. you're looking at they they said they. didn't know what it was. now how do they not know what it is this. is it hiding it's not hiding in but it's. not hiding they're Del hiding not. they're not willing to talk about is.

that what it is yes exactly this is. solos be census on the right mhm now as. a cultivator and many of your listeners. are cultivators they know what I'm going. to say is true you can pick up Cow. Patties with SLP census put it into a. vase just like that it collects you can. put water in it it limits evaporation. the melium seeks light and air. so it would pop out of these. orifices that is a taxonomically. correct image drawing of solos census.

and down below is the blue water lily. and their soloensis. the Egyptians royal colors were gold and. blue the blue Lily water lily the Blue. Lotus is blue Sosi census is golden it. bruises bluish. and Jamie if you could humor me with. just two more slides there's the Blue. Lotus there's another example of the.

mushrooms associated with the Falcon I. mean there's dozens of these images look. at that one on the left that's so. obviously mushrooms not a shovel no a. shovel would be upside down it's so. obviously mushrooms but it's also like. the way the cap is formed and the the. cusped cap the shape of this and and yet. and here is a painting on on papyrus for. the Temple of Osiris it also has very. similar and this next image I think is. the next image now there's bluing of. Solas census again and the next one I.

would have skip this on and okay I was. looking for blue juice I don't know if. we have blue juice on there that one's. wild what is those little figurines. these are mushroom Stones meso American. mushroom stones from Guatemala wow and. they persisted for 1500 BCE to 500 AD a. thousand years before the Conquistadors. came. and they were representative we think of. a mushroom cult um and they could have. been a family like AR uh you know.

heirlooms how silly is that the. conventional archaeologists won't. acknowledge that those are mushrooms. well we actually have a reward out and. this is great that I'm speaking about it. um is that we have a reward of $1,000. for anyone who can find solos census uh. DNA in the ruins and and um because we. can amplify the DNA we can prove that. they were either in the vases in the. ponds or near the ponds and doing core.

samples sort of like they've done with. the illinium Mysteries with um ergot. with the ergot yeah J can see the blue. the blue juice image I don't see it you. don't see it it's just a it's a hand. with a a vessel of blue liquid in it two. two. images. so more than one thing can be. true when you're looking at the ucan. Mysteries oh there we go so this is. something that blew me away have you.

seen Dune 2 I have not I heard it's. awesome amazing Frank Herbert was a. friend of mine who wrote dune Frank. Herbert lived in Port Towns in. Washington and Frank Herbert uh came to. visit me and um Frank told me he was. growing chantells in Christmas trees. that were just 5 years old I go that's. impossible I how are you doing that and. he goes well I take chantells and I put. them into water and I pour it to the. base of of the trees and it comes up so.

there's the blue. juice and so if you take Sloe. cubensis or any H and mushroom that's. potent you put it in the water you. create blue juice and this is in Dune 2. where they drink it and so I asked Frank. Frank the eyes are blue the Ben jessat. are these shamanic women who have this. High ascended cult is that based on.

Maria. Sabina I said and maggots grow through. mushrooms and I said everything the. spice seems like it spores and your blue. eyes and this blue juice and he goes. you're the first person that's noticed. this oh wow and he said he was tripping. on solosy and mushrooms he was laying on. his deck and he saw worms coming out of. the mushrooms that he ate soulside. mushrooms and that was the dawn of the. idea wow now I I'm this is absolutely.

true and I haven't met um you know Frank. Herbert's son I really want to meet him. to tell him this because he did say. something about I think he had two sons. I my memory is foggy on this but he said. I'm keeping this secret from my sons and. I said why he goes well they're illegal. and they're just at the age right now. that I don't want them to tell other. people about this oh no so um but it all. makes perfect sense the spices spores. the blue juice from the blue juice you.

saw that was made there yeah um it all. ties together and look at that beautiful. color okay so this is from the church of. Ambrosia uh I think David Hodges and and. this is SLO census on the right and this. is slby azures on the left and the cybin. is a pro drug for psilocin psilocin. degrades enzymatically into Indigo uh. the molecu the Indigo molecule complex. and it's actually reversible though I. don't haven't seen it happen but. theoretically it's reversible but this.

is the blue juice and so wow we. discovered this several people discover. this independently well would the. Egyptians Discover it yes you know would. the Mazo and the oex the Mayans discover. this yes this is very simple you powder. you put the mushrooms in the water and. and it elutes into the water the next. day and you end up with this potent blue. psilocybin packed.

Elixir and so this also speaks that you. know I think people all over the world. when they experimenting they're inspired. and they know this is a sacred substance. how do we preserve it how do we protect. it oh you put honey with it well honey. is. antibacterial and in the 1516 the. Bavarian beer act banned. mushrooms that's interesting they ban. mushrooms from beer because mushrooms. are being added along with henbane and. other plants to make these narcotic.

Elixir and you know Mees honey beer uh. beer so I you know don't underestimate. the creativity and innovation of any. people living long enough in their. ecosystem interacting experimenting. making mistakes making successes. building for thousands of years. thousands of years yeah you know we. should not be intellectually myopic. which I think is another problem of the. huis of science well it's also a problem.

with this whole drug schedule thing. because when it's schedule one even. talking about it openly opens you to. criticism and ridicule especially if. you've been involved in Academia for. decades right so you you started your. career and your mindset towards these. substances at a time where it was very. detrimental to your reputation to be. pursuing these things absolutely that's. why um as much criticism as Timothy liry.

and RAM doset and even Andy W they were. all incredibly courageous no one more. courageous however than Maria Sabina who. opened up the masch tradition and also. Valentina Watson our Gordon Watson's. wife was a Russian physician who was a. also a myologist the difference in the. con similarity and we owe a de a. gratitude to Maria Sabina and the masx. and to Valentina Watson who died in. 1958 um but she was grew up in Russia.

she knew how to identify mushrooms these. are not people just in taking sside. mushrooms they knew how to go out into. the fields they and and valentinaa. Watson she knew the Russian names um. they wrote a book mushrooms Russian. history was going to be a cookbook of. 500 recipes and it became this great. ethn ethnological um um you know. exploration but these courageous women. were not only medicine women they were.

field. mycologists who could go out into nature. and find them I I have a I I have a DEA. license now and I pass my background. checks. yay I guess they haven't listen to your. podcast I'm uh yeah well no I have I'm. very serious about this um I had one. also in the 70s and 80s and. my father at the end of his life asked. me to trip with him on sols. hien I turned him down Alexander Smith.

who wrote A monograph on the G solosy. the father of American micology one of. the greatest mycologists ever who's. published many new species of solide. mushrooms in. 1979 78 in Aspen. Colorado um it's actually snow Mouse he. asked me to trip with him on S side. Muslims here's like having your your. hero Elder saying I trust you I want a. journey I've read all about it will you.

trip with me both of them asked me and I. asked their wives the same question will. you Journey with me and with. him and both of their wives said. no and I said I can't I can't have this. experience with you in both cases I was. leaving leaving the next day what would. I I I abandon them would they have this. lifechanging experience they have all. these questions and I'm not there to.

talk through it and and and so I adopted. the policy and I'm very strict about. about this nature provides I don't I. mean I am very sh I don't feel it's. ethical for me to give a silicide. mushroom to somebody else I'm not a. therapist I'm not a psych I'm a. myologist I have my own deep personal. religious freedoms and I do believe that. these are sacraments and they are part. of my own personal religion I'll stand. on that I've published on that I believe. in that but I have no right to give it. to somebody else and I think this is.

really important that we need to be. adults about this these are very potent. medicines and the rituals of the mazat. and the Aztec and the Mayans and so many. first people and dis peoples they had. the structur set up they were honed over. the centuries to how to properly. administer these. sacraments we many of us from European. descent were orphans we're spiritual. orphans have been cast from our. religions our religious roots from my.

dramaic roots I named my son azurus he's. probably going to listen to this hi as. in Miss Latin uh masculine singular for. sky blue and I named the species called. sosop azur rescence because it turns. blue and also from my son um and when I. named my son azus my family gave me a. just tremendous criticism how could you. give this kid this name and then when. he's 5 years old we're at our my. grandmother's house and we're going.

through our family history and our coat. of arms were from the house of azure oh. wow and and then we're from the house of. Guilford in the within the house of of. Guilford then the subh house of azure. and um I looked it up and we're 30 miles. from my family's roots are 30 miles from. Stonehenge so September 22nd The Druids. have invited me to be in the center of. Stonehenge for a ceremony they are. rediscovering and they maintain they've.

used solide mushrooms throughout history. is called re indigenization with the. Egyptians Alchemists that I've recently. met they know their ancestors they. believe it spiritually they use solosy. mushrooms in combination with the blue. lotus it's called re indigenization. rediscovering your ancient roots of your. practices what is the psych active. compound the Blue Lotus very complex a. blue lotus is amazing I've only been. recently introduced to it I've had some. Elixir made of it it wakens up your.

receptors it gives you this hyper state. of of Consciousness it's not speedy it's. kind of an an alertness uh phenomenon. and so does it come with heightened uh. circular respiratory I you know the. pharmacology other people can speak of. because I'm you know again I stay in my. Lane of micology did you notice the. elevated heart rate no. no but but they shortness of breath. nothing like that nothing like a. stimulant no I I experienced super. alertness that's what I would say it was.

like I was super sensitive um so they're. they're combining now these Egyptian. Alchemists I met slos census golden. mushroom bruises blue with a blue lotus. the Blue Lotus opens the daytime closes. at night you know birth and death um and. now the with The Druids I say they've. always used Theos to be mushrooms. and so there's and so many other peoples. now are re indigenizing there you were. going on about the the what the blue. lotus does though the blue lotus in.

combination with solos census looks like. it's an Elixir that was practiced for a. very long time as eviden by the. hieroglyphs that we just saw and what is. in the blue lotus like what is the. actual compound I I am I cannot tell you. really yep interesting okay uh today the. blue L flower has been used primarily as. a sleep aid and anxiety reliever however. at higher doses achieved by inhalation. users can experience Euphoria and. hallucinations the psychoactive effects. of the flower are attributed to two a. how do you say that aporphine aporphine.

alkaloids apomorphine and. nuciferine H. interesting oh it's good for LTI. dysfunction Y no it may help muscle. control in those with conditions such as. Parkinson's disease and erectile. dysfunction dopamine Agonist that's. interesting. so much like some of the dopamine. agonists that have like weird psycho. side. effects um you know there's like a. pharmaceutical dopamine agonists like um.

excellent Jamie Bo um re-equip do you. know what that is no it's uh it's a. crazy case where a guy won a lawsuit. against galaxo Smith Klein because he. was on a dopamine Agonist and it turned. him into a gay sex and gambling addict. he was a heterosexual man who uh had. Park son had wife and kids and could not. stop like picking guys up and random. like chance encounters and he got raped.

he uh lost all of his money he like. gambled his entire life savings away was. hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. and got off the medication and the. symptoms all went away and he realized. that it was this dopamine Agonist that. he actually won in court and not a lot. of money not a lot of money that c that. cost effect sounds very complicated to. me so um yeah the dopamine Agonist thing. there have like if you Google um. pharmaceutical dopamine Agonist side.

effects they're pretty well documented. and one of them seems to be um a. lowering of inhibitions or a lack of. control over inhibitions which uh would. would lead to like they think gambling. problems you know just people did just. can't put it all on black let's go spin. that roulette like they just go crazy. and they just want to gamble which is. very strange well that seems like. creating of obsessive compulsive. disorder you know so something along. those lines but also like this guy was.

saying that he was completely. heterosexual until he started taking. these dope M agonists and then he wanted. to have a lot of like random dangerous. gay sex I've been immersed into a group. of psychiatrists um and my heart goes. out to them because it is such fuzzy. science it's just so complex um and you. know you become medical doctor first. then you go on for two to four more. years become a psychiatrist and it just. seems like it's really um it's really. shows that the Psychiatry is still at. the infancy of its science well there's.

so there's so many things like SSR and. now showing it's not a chemical. imbalance that's what the whole basis of. it was about what are the dopamine. Agonist known side. effects cuz uh some of them are pretty. crazy nausea vomiting orthostatic. hypotension headache dizziness and card. arhythmia among the most common side. effects of dopamine Agonist these. adverse effects are mostly dosage. dependent it's highly recommended to. start these medications at low dosage to.

reduce the risk of orthostatic. hypotension um delirium hallucination. seizure coma but some people have they. Google um re-equip. lawsuit it's like requip. requip. lawsuit. yeah Parkinson patient wins lawsuit over. gay sex addiction look at this so I. think this was in the.

UK click on one of. those okay fizer settles lawsuit tying. sex and gambling addictions to dopamine. meds so this was fizer this is a. different one this is a different. lawsuit there's more than one lawsuit. the confidential settlement with 100. settlement with 172 patients said to be. for millions of dollars was approved by. the judge and federal court in Australia. Financial review reports although the. payments were delayed until they were. assessed by independent review fiser. okay side effects of the drugs they were.

taking to treat Parkinson's disease or. restless leg syndrome yeah and so gay. sex and gamble causing them to gamble. away their life savings or become. obsessed with shopping or sex and so it. seems like an impulse control sounds. like Las Vegas to me it's Vegas like. imagine if they could sell that in Vegas. uh they occurred in at least 10% of the. patients but said they probably were. underreported due to patients were. ashamed to talk about what they had done.

wow interesting so the the one okay. re-equip okay FDA should require a. blackbox warning on labels of dopamine. Agonist a class that includes we equip. from galaxo Smith Klein ucb's new Pro. and mlex from Binger engelheim the. German company was sued by a New York. man some years back who said taken the. drugs and turned him into a pathological. gamble Gambler who ruined him uh as he. gambled away $3.

million. wild yeah I would be just a word of. caution when you read headline articles. like this you know there's probably a. lot more behind the story behind the. covers well also there's probably a lot. more if you're talking about the. difference between the blue lotus flower. some naturally occurring substance. probably also has a bunch of other. things in with it as well it's sort of. like when they had Marinol remember when. they tried to do like synthetic THC and. give it to people it was terrible you. know because they didn't want people.

smoking pot because there's a lot of. things that come with it right it's not. just this the individual compound right. it's like all the things inside of it. especially when it comes to cannabis the. other cannabinoids that work. synergistically with THC yeah yeah well. I think we're at the extraordinary time. of re-evaluation I hope that we have. greater respect for diverse points of. view I think a lot of these. observational studies and patient. reportings should steer medicine I think.

observational studies in general. populate databases for scientists to be. able to look at looking for signal I. think AI will be fantastic yeah I was. lucida you know signals that we can't. possibly see so I think there is a. convergence you know of psychedelic. science and artificial intelligence. but I hopefully is G Guided by a very. high ethical standard where we are. always you know trying to steer the.

course you know in a way that is. judicious and does not get away from us. and that's the biggest concern about AI. that I have that's why we have to give. psilocybin to everybody involved in AI. we have to give psilocybon to AI I just. don't know how to do. it yeah could that be programmed in I. don't know compassion psychedelic. experiences feeling of connectedness. what if they AI automatically knows all. these things because it's already. achieved some sort of state of. Enlightenment just by virtue of not. being attached to all the things that. hold us back huis ego you know all all.

the things that ruin Humanity maybe it. will automatically be enlightened. because it won't be connected to those. things but is AI singularity in and of. itself it's a diversified singularities. that are converging to a single you know. uh concept eventually As Time rolls out. well that might be a part of what. psychadelic plays in all of this that. might be that that might be our. parachute that might be the one thing. that can kind of help us make our way. through this and and keep some semblance.

of Sanity I I just think that the. advantage of Solin is anyone who can. grow it in their own. home it's democratizes. psychedelics it's easy to do it ties you. back with. nature you know I'm a Libertarian and. that the government has no business you. know when it uh when it. and crossing my threshold of my door. what I do with my family what I do with. my home Etc that's especially when it. comes to something that's not harming. anyone right yeah and especially to. something that like the ld50 is so high.

you'd have to have pounds and pounds of. it to get sick and die I think it's 38. pounds yeah that's which You' die from a. dehydration of absorbing the mushrooms. so you literally wouldn't be able to do. it you wouldn't be able to eat enough to. kill you yeah and I think it speaks to. the freedom of Consciousness you know. it's a basic human civil right we should. all have the Civil Right for our own our. rights to our own Consciousness we also. have to look at it in terms of the the. rights of individuals like an individual. does not have the right to tell you what.

you can and can't do that's not going to. harm someone else it's just wrong it's. wrong fundamentally for a person to have. that kind of power over another person. someone doing something in the privacy. of their own home where it's not harming. other people and it's not even dangerous. to themselves mhm maybe psych psych. maybe Psych actively dangerous I mean. maybe someone who's very vulnerable. maybe someone who has schizophrenia. maybe someone who is already. psychologically impaired maybe yes then. but the only way we find out about that.

is through studies the only way to do. that is to legalize it the only way to. do that is to change the way people. think about it and I think what you. spoke about with uh police officers my. experience with Soldiers with uh. veterans that have had very positive and. beneficial experiences and even people. that are like near death you know. they're they're in in hospice care have. had very powerful like well there's a. great organization called roots to. thrive is a Canadian. nonprofit uh they've taken I think 60. patients end of life anxiety most of.

them stage four diagnosis a few months. to live they have eight caregivers eight. patients they meet on Zoom they get. together they prepare for this they do. high doses of soloc cybin with a. Canadian government. approval at our first Nations uh health. care. facility and um a number of great people. are involved with roots to thrive I. highly recommend them and um this makes.

me want to tear up um is that in one of. the sessions one of the first sessions. there are eight patients they get. together and they prepare and they lay. down in this common room and when you do. a high dose of coc cybin as you know. effects come on pretty quickly 10 to 20. minutes but an hour to two hours was in. you're you're peing and just as they. were peeking the First Nation Elders on. the other side of the wall started.

drumming and everybody started crying. because they knew that they knew you. know how important that was and to have. first nation support with people who are. dying and the majority of those people. come out of that experience not fearing. fearing death and they become C to their. families saying it's okay I'm dying and. they changed the whole relationship with. leaving and interestingly and I just.

heard this number recently of the 58 or. 60 people only four of them have died. and they all had terminal illnesses. going back over three years now so you. think about wow mind over matter if you. don't have this anguish this. inflammatory pathway you now have. optimism about life and you're meaning. you're a caregiver you have purpose. right then isn't your immune system up. regulated it has to be we know that. emotionally depressed people do have a. depressed immune systems well people who. have found a new lease on life and.

purpose you know it would augment their. innate immunity I've always wondered. about that with CO as well the people. that were terrified of Co and once they. got Co they were just overwhelmed with. anxiety and fear and all that does is. crush your immune system yeah and all. the fear that was being propagated by. the media this constant like death bell. that was rang. all over the media just scared the. out of people and it probably weakened a. lot of people's immune systems and. probably cost a lot of lives there's no. doubt about it I think uh basically.

spreading wide Widespread Panic you know. increasing anxiety depresses the immune. system yeah there's a lot of factors. right there's there's companionship love. friendship happiness in your life. physical activity there's all the. different mitigating factors that can. alleviate some of your anxiety and if. you don't have those. all those things are going to compound. and it is a cascading effect well that's. why again I see life and death life and. disease health and disease has been a. it's a multifactorial equation how many.

coefficient variables can you get on. this side of the equation that on this. side of the equation results in a better. life a healthier life a better attitude. I think psychedelics in a particular. solos hybin is a very major coefficient. variable that can help tilt the balance. and moreover it's just not a linear. equation ation it becomes a matrix of. implications to everybody else around. you in your community your family your. community the city the nation the world. is that we need soloc hybin now for.

societal benefit more so than we have. ever needed it and it's time has come. and so I applaud all the researchers who. have struck out and my discussions with. law enforcement is really interesting um. they want to put their energy where they. can have the most positive impact to. protect the health of society and uh. fentanyl syndicates are a high priority. individual use of solbin is not and.

that's how it should be I mean we should. we really grow up about this stuff and. and if there were if there was a. widespread legalization at the very. least you could develop centers where. people could safely take it and they. would be treated by counselors and you'd. be have people who were experienced. Travelers that are registered and know. how to deal with people and handle. people and we could do it in like a. modern shamanic setting that that can be. done the U not that I love lawyers but. one of the best lawyer strategies I've.

ever seen in my life is the. decriminalization of solid cyan and. psychedelics to the lowest priority of. law enforcement so it is a violation of. the officer's duty to their their. oath uh to use public funds to. Prosecuting people people for. psychedelics so it is it is at the level. of jaywalking right it's basically it's. the lowest priority of law enforcement.

which means if a law enforcement officer. tries to bring a case forward it is a it. is malpractice of their eth of their. ethical duty to perform their job to. waste the court and the Public's money. focusing on psychedelic PR it should be. as it should be that's just one step. right it should be legal we should get. an understanding of it and how many. people it could benefit I think. decriminalization is the lowest hanging. fruit in in this long walk towards. legalization decriminalization I think.

is is I I think it should be legal I. mean I want to make sure everyone knows. that but I think from a practical point. of view lowering the penalties and. reducing it as a at the lowest priority. of law enforcement a lot of sense what. did you think about California's. decision to not Legalize It or Not. decriminalize it and it for um they. wanted to allow it for therapeutic use. but they wanted to set thresholds first. they said no thresholds were established. and no protocol or program was.

established and if they would they would. reconsider if that was done well right. now my understanding is that a council. of Physicians have blocked all research. on psilocybin and psychedelics in. California it's a total blockade they. will not allow any research there's a. governing board for schedule one. substances in California which Most. states don't have and that governing. board is a stop-go board for progress of. research on schedule ones and they have. dictated essentially no research on.

psychedelics in in finding issue no I. think it's a political science issue you. get Physicians or other people who are. not experienced with these substances. making decisions about these substances. it's ill-informed decisions from. inexperienced people for the most part. and so they have a distorted perception. of what these things do and they don't. don't feel that there's any value in. studies they haven't experienced them. it's like somebody who's never flown an. airplane who then thinks they know how. to fly fly an airplane telling you.

giving you advice on how and why you. should not fly an airplane because. they're just in experience they're out. of their out of their Ken of experiences. got it so but well that's not good. especially for a progressive state or. supposedly Progressive State well the. initiatives the public ballot. initiatives 70 80% in in Canada recently. a survey 80% of the citizens of Canada. want psychedelics approved for. therapeutic use and decriminalized 80%. so when the states that have ballots.

this is how these these these big. changes are occurring and then citizens. paid with public funds you know public. officers public. employees then have to follow the will. of the people and so I think the ballot. initiatives is gets politicians out of. the hot seat they have to say oh we have. to follow the will of the people I I did. not stick my neck out on that it's the. ballot ini the people have spoke so I. think this the people's Revolution. movement so I I think this is a.

revolution for the freedom of. Consciousness for the ground swelling. that's occurring not in the United. States and Canada but all over the world. it's so desperately needed well said. Paul stamis you're the man I. appreciate you very much thank you very. much for being here it's always a. pleasure to talk to you uh your company. that you sell these wonderful mushrooms. at is called host defense it's fungi.com. you get that and thank you for. everything you do my friend I really. really really appreciate it I want to. thank you Joe and I want to thank you. for having this opportunity I want to. thank all the JRE listeners for.

contributing to these observational. studies because you can help inform. scientists to make good decisions and. create validated studies that help lead. the Medical Science Community forward we. need all of you you know so here here. get at it freaks all right all right. thank you thank you bye everybody. [Applause]. [Music].