Joe Rogan Experience #2129 - David Holthouse

Joe Rogan podcast check it out The Joe. Rogan Experience Train by day Joe Rogan. podcast by night all. day how are you man good to see you. again good thanks for having me back man. my pleasure you made another awesome one. man this uh the krishna's one oh my. God there is something about these cult. documentaries right it's just. right that one's heavy.

do you remember the har Krishna devotees. in the airports cuz you're like me like. you're old enough of that generation. that you might remember the white robe. like remember they have the flowers and. they'd be selling books and [ __ ] in the. airports I don't remember know if I. remember them at the airports I remember. them in some places I def have seen them. you know yeah but um yeah I just always. thought they were just Cooks you know. it's just it's it's interesting you know. knowing what I know now about the 60s. and you know what what was done to.

of to kind of uh crush the hippie. movement right you know it's interesting. to see that this. was connected to you know the Beatles. and peace and love and then you see this. sect that this this what was his name. again K Nanda was the guru that went. right way wrong yeah went way wrong yeah. but it it is uh well let's just get into. from the beginning how did you get. involved in this particular subject so. there's a production company marware. Junction and they had actually sold this.

show to Peacock and they uh were looking. for a director so this is the first show. that I've made or help to make that I. haven't been involved in the sort of. conception of the story for the jump so. they had developed the story and sold it. to Peacock and they were shopping for a. director and they liked my work and so. they hired me to make it and so did you. have any experience with the christnas. before this no no and I had a l you know. like a lot of people had a lot of. misconceptions about them like I thought. that there was a that the Hari Krishna. movement was invented in America in the.

1960s I just had it associated with sort. of the hippie movement you know that's. not the that's not the truth of it is at. all it's like actually a spiritual. tradition that you know dates back. thousands of years like far predates uh. Christianity it's based in these ancient. spiritual texts called the vdas that you. know the the written version is like at. least 3,500 years old and the oral. tradition goes back thousands of years. beyond that so um I learned a lot about.

uh you know chrishna Consciousness and. the making of this and the show is about. a particularly dark chapter in the. history of the movement in the 70s and. 80s that I don't think is uh. representative of the movement like. today like I think it's it's a force for. for good in the world today actually. yeah I think the principles behind it if. you pay attention to the main Guru was. the older. ger yeah my friend Duncan loves that guy.

yeah and what the whole concept behind. it sounds beautiful you know it's all. just love and you know relinquishing. your possessions and the hold that they. have on you and just living this very. peaceful loving life and not just. forgiving your enemies but letting them. into your home and all of it sounds. great but all it takes is one psycho y. one psycho well pra he took a risk I. mean so pra pod was a guru so several.

gurus Krishna Consciousness gurus had. come over from India to the UK or to the. US you know in the 1800s even and then. through the first half of the 20th. century and had no luck because their. timing wasn't right or they weren't the. right person or both but prup pod was. the right dude at the right time he. showed up in Greenwich Village New York. City. 1965 and started preaching chrishna. Consciousness and it's just like you. know took off like. wildfire and you know like Alan Ginsburg. got down with it wasn't maybe a full. skill devote but like he was hanging out.

with them and but paod was already an. old dude when he showed up in the US and. so in 1977 he died so that's 12 years. and by that time Krishna Consciousness. there were like Krishna temples all over. the country and in the UK because George. Harrison had converted right that was. one of his like Strokes of Brilliance. braod is he like sent a group of. devotees to go camp out outside the. Apple Records Office and just like chant. and dance until they basically got a.

meeting with the. Beatles And he was literally like let's. see if we can make the Beatles you know. Christi and uh with Harrison it took you. know and that song My Sweet Lord I mean. that's that's what it's about that's. about Christian Consciousness yeah so. but when Pupa died in 1977 you know he. hadn't had a lot of time to build up. successors and most of the most of the. leaders of the movement were young or. most of the members of the movement were. young so he took a risk and I don't. think he had a choice and he appointed. 11 of his his closest longest time.

devotees all men to be the gurus that. would carry the movement. forward and while you could say that it. worked and that chrishna Consciousness. is still around is bigger than. ever uh a few of those you these are. dudes these are like dudes in their 20s. okay that suddenly are being worshiped. as direct conduits to the Divine in. other words treated as Gods on Earth. yeah and some of them were not. spiritually prepared for that would be a.

kind way to put it and some of them went. wrong and one of them particular K Nanda. whose you know government name was Keith. ham went really wrong I like the term. government name. yeah well that is a thing that they. always do right they give them spiritual. names yeah you relinquish your you know. yeah your original existence yeah you. take a Christian name there's a a place. out here you know I I built a comedy. club and um before I got the spot that I. have now on six Street Street I bought a.

place called The One World Theater and. the One World Theater was owned by a. cult and um I it's a beautiful theater. and I had heard about it from my friend. Ron White cuz we would I was telling him. you know I think we should open up a. comedy club and he said you should buy. that theater it was owned by a cult and. I was like that would be hilarious buy a. theater that was owned by a cult and. there's a documentary on them called. holy hell okay and it's the same sort of. deal yeah I know that I know that doc. yeah yeah so they start off it seems. wonderful the beginning everyone's doing.

yoga they're hanging out together. cooking meals together and dancing and. and like it seems like all cults it goes. sideways yeah it in the beginning looks. like a wonderful idea like society sucks. the way you know the modern world the. the way it's set up materialism it's all. foolish and and spiritually vacant. there's a way to do this and the way to. live and this is the way and everybody. joins and and then Waco comes along and. the cult awareness Network starts.

investigating this guy and so he changes. his name for the third time his name is. haime Gomez he was a gay porn star and a. hypnotist. so he led a rich life yeah so he was uh. he was already uh on a certain path and. then starts this play he changed his. name again and uh he changed his name to. like I forget there's two different. names one was Michelle and then I forget. what the other one was so he changes. name again moves to Austin and starts.

this cult and has his followers build. him this theater so he can dance in. front of them and that was the place. that I bought but it was all [ __ ] up. and we wind up getting out of the deal. and because there was like a lot of. problems and didn't a lot of issues that. had to be resolved with the property and. uh they didn't disclose that so I got. out of it and then got this place on. Sixth Street but. I you know in the process I really. started investigating the cult and I. didn't in investigated unfortunately.

before I signed contracts and uh I had. gotten a call from my friend Adam like. hey man did you watch the documentary on. the cult I was like oh no whatever there. a documentary and a cult it's generally. a cult that went bad right and this one. went bad and but it was the same sort of. deal they all got names they were all. given you know spiritual names and they. were told that you're reborn reborn in. this this new persona well even in the. 60s and 70s I don't think it's it' be. fair to call Krishna Consciousness ult.

but the way that this so this guy kir. Ananda one of the 11 you know disciples. that prad appointed to carry on the. movement he already had a commune uh up. in the hills of West Virginia that's. still there that's called new reavan. because the city of reavan in India is. the sort of mythical birthplace in that. that cult that compound is still there. still there yeah but it's not a cult. it's not a cult and it's like right and. I've been there twice and like today. again it's like it's a really like. positive place with a great spiritual. Vibe but when Kiran was in charge the 7s. and ' 80s like some really dark [ __ ].

went on down how did they turn it around. well like well they finally like his. followers turned on him you know and and. iscon which is the international Society. for chrishna Consciousness which is sort. of the formal name for the heart. christnas what we call the har krishnas. they actually like you know kicked the. new vavan out of the movement um for a. few years half a decade or so and then. like kind of gradually brought that that. compound that Comm it's not compound. that.

back in but they had this [ __ ] Temple. there the Palace of Gold the prob pod's. Palace of Gold that they were originally. building for p prup pod to to live in. but then he died before it was completed. but it's like this it's like this Taj. Mahal esque structure that's in yeah. yeah that's in that's in the kind of the. middle of nowhere in the in the hills of. West Virginia I mean there's just you. know it's like couple couple hours from. Pittsburgh basically and up in the. mountains and so God that's beautiful.

look at the images and these are like. untrained uh you know. disciples making this just based on like. ancient text that they studied they just. figured out how to do all this. artisanship that's amazing yeah it. really is it's it's worth visiting for. sure it's a it's it's mind-blowing I. like there's a big box of cash there and. so and so but this place I mean even. even now it's like it's it's it's.

well for sure in the 60s for sure in the. 70s it was cut off from the rest of the. world I mean these young kids would join. the har Krishan movement and basically a. lot of the fuckups in the movement would. get sent to Kiran Nanda at newand Davin. because he'd put them to work building. the Temple right so if you like joined. and you were like you know not fitting. in for some reason a lot of times they'd. buy you a one-way bus ticket to like. Morgantown or Pittsburgh Pennsylvania. and you'd wind up up there you know in. the Hills under kanda's tutelage right.

which is which is and that and it went. it went sideways in a hurry especially. after prad died he was already running. newand Davin like PAAD had visited it. and approved of it and actually Kiran. had gotten booted out of the Krishna. movement because he kind of tried to. take it over yeah and at a certain point. like prup pod you know kicked him out. and and Keith ham Kiron andand like mind. [ __ ] this this local sort of like. philosopher dude that that owned uh the.

land into into into signing it over. promising to be like a. non-denominational spiritual movement. that that's what he was doing and as the. guy put it we interviewed his daughter. and he said you know as soon as the. lease was signed they put on bed sheets. and started chanting right and so now. you got the har Krishna as as your. neighbors right yeah yeah um it's the. documentary is really well done thanks. it's like just like Squatch I mean you. you do some awesome stuff but it's it. it's so fascinating to watch these uh.

alternative sort of. movements get coopted and how that can. happen by the wrong sort of. charismatic psycho right and that's this. how do you say his name kand k k kand. Yeah kand kand kand It's Tricky man dud. dealing with all these Christian names. and making this documentary it was like. you know did how much research did you. have to do about the movement and.

getting into it quite a bit you know. before you sit down and start doing. interviews with devotees like you want. to know at least a little bit about what. you're talking about you know and I went. to um we filmed in vavan in India that's. how the project that's how I started the. project like I signed on I signed on to. the director gig and like two weeks. later I was in India um wow what was. that like hey Jamie can we get the. coffee in here well one thing about. vavan India is the [ __ ] monkeys okay. they're these monkeys that will steal. your [ __ ] and it's a whole racket right.

the monkeys something back yeah and of. course we're like we're like knocking. around with bags full of lenses and. camera gear and audio gear and stuff and. so we're a Target Rich you know posy for. these monkeys but they'll get your. sunglasses your phone whatever if you're. not careful and then they like sort of. skitter up a drain pipe or a tree and. you got to buy these like frozen mango. packs from the street vendors and like. throw them up to the monkeys and the. monkeys will drop your [ __ ] back down to. you I'm convinced that the street. vendors are in on it right it's like. probably are thank you yeah so they.

probably are yeah well at the very least. it's it's so strange that the monkeys. know that you can barter yeah they. learned yeah that you can make a deal. yeah the legend is is that hundreds of. years ago uh this guy that was like he. brought a circus to reavan and the. monkeys came with him and they were. trained to be pickpockets and then they. just kind of stayed behind but I don't. know if that's true or not but that's. the local Legend is that but there. there's hundreds of them thousands of. them man I mean they are everywhere and. you got to you got to watch you got to. be constantly have your head on a swivel.

because they are so quick and what do. they live off of do they just live off. of what the people give them I don't. know they probably scavenge but also. like they do get a lot of like you know. mango treats from staling ship because. balaram mandere which is like the the. Head har Krishna Temple is is in VAV in. India and so devotees from all over the. world go there like as spiritual. tourists basically and so you know. monkeys steal [ __ ] from them or any. other you know the there's a lot of. Krishna devotees from all over India too.

that aren't necessarily quote unquote. Hari krishnas but like follow the Hindu. deity Krishna so they come to it's it's. like a you know there's a lot of. spiritual pilgrims to this city all. right there's a lot of spiritual tourism. there and so the monkeys have a lot of. targets and so when they steal your. stuff you have to throw it to them you. got to buy something and then throw it. up to them they and they and then they. will relinquish it sometimes they'll be. like oh nope nope that's that's a cell. phone that's a three mango pack deal. dude you got they won't you know they'll.

be like oh thanks and they'll like go. like they're going to drop it too. they'll be like oh how about I drop it. in the sewer oh you don't want that. mango pack so point the mangoes yes yes. yes So eventually you you throw them. enough treats and they'll like and and. there these kids too that if they see. that a monkey has stolen something. they'll come over and they'll be like. for a few Ro basically it's like for a. few rupees I'll handle this deal for you. and then they they climb up the tree or. the drain po and they do a direct hand.

toand exchange wow so we learn the hard. way that's that's the thing to do if the. monkey steals the whatever hire the kid. he goes and Brokers the deal with the. mango juice guy you know and makes it. all happen for you yeah so do other. monkeys realize this is happening and. try to steal the mangoes before you give. it it's brutal but they also they also. cooperate too like they'll run like um. you know distraction operations like one. monkey will come at you from an angle. and kind of like Bluff charge and then. you're paying attention to that one and. then Boom the other one like grabs your.

sunglasses off your head wow yeah yeah. um but we were there to um to film. there's there's this this. ceremony uh these two these two brothers. whose father his um name was chakari his. his Christian name his uh government. name was Charles St Dennis he Al known. as Chaka in the movement and his sons. were doing this really ancient ritual to. sort of release the soul of someone. who's been murdered and so they had.

their father's ashes which he was. murdered you know decades ago at neavin. by on orders from Kiran andand because. he was challenging Kiran nanda's. Authority re so Kiran Nanda had people. murdered too more than one yeah I think. there's probably quite a few bodies up. in the hills don't know yeah yeah wow. yeah one of the one of the principal. sources for the um for the documentary. is a guy's retired homicide cop named. thas Westfall who was a local just a.

local cop uh in West Virginia when the. when the Krishna setup shop at the. neavin commune and so he started keeping. a close eye on them early and sort of. Saw Kiran Nanda rise to power and uh you. know he believes that there's at least a. handful more victims up there whose. bodies haven't been. found because it's really remote country. I mean I don't want to stress that it's. really cold in the winter there's a lot. of snow you know to this day it's it's.

sort of it's it's a difficult place to. get to and so this guy when he first. started running this Temple this this. area when did it go how long did it take. before it went sideways well I think it. was the question with kir toand or Keith. ham is always like was he bent before. you know he became a Krishna or was it. like did the power get to him and I. think it's both you know I think I think. he had a psychological disposition I. towards being a desperate if you will.

and then once paod was gone and he and. kir Tanda along with 10 of his. compatriots was appointed a guru you. know um and had that sort of power I. think at that point it's and combined. with like all the money I mean he. was he was um he had this guy that was a. he was a Kiran was a genius at running. schemes and scams to make money he would. dispatch like the hottest young female.

Christian devotees to like stock car. races and rock concerts and stuff to. like raise money for whatever they just. make it up The Starving Children of. India or they just make up Charities and. they'd flirt with dudes you know. especially at rock concerts guys that. are like high and get them to give them. cash a dollar here five bucks here 10. bucks there they work at airports too. but um and they just brought in. literally like garbage bags full of cash. you know every week wow and they and and. and he trained them to to deposit it in.

$9,900 increments so it doesn't to avoid. the reporting right yeah yeah wow so he. was he looks crazy that's what's. interesting isn't it interesting that. like crazy people look crazy and I. always I always try to say okay is this. because you know he's crazy or do you. see something it's hard to tell but he. doesn't. seem enlightened like you look at him he. he looks like a guy who's a little.

unhinged and I've met people like that. unhinged and I've met people like that. in like the psychedelics movement and. there's there's a few of these movements. that are so open and basically anybody. can become a part of it you know the. concept behind it is you know we're all. seeking Enlightenment we're all but then. you'll see someone who gets in there and. you're like what is this guy's. schizophrenic or something like there's. something going on here especially you. look at photos of Kanda over the de. decades like he just gets more and more.

and more demented looking right and that. has to probably be the power right. they're washing his feet and worshiping. yeah he was molesting kids there you. know he was he was a total pedophile. right [ __ ] that started that he was. always a pedophile I think pedophiles. are always pedophiles you know but again. once he had like access to as as the. movement went on yeah more and more. Krishna couples had kids so he had. access to more and more and more. children up there you know in those.

Hills right and that was one of the. things that you highlight is that it. wasn't just about releasing the. possessions it was also like not having. your CH not having control of your. children either yeah yeah although I. think they they um especially at at. newand davan at the place that Kanda ran. they kind of took that belief you know. that that yes children are a material. attachment right um but he took it to an. extreme and just basically just cut off. you know kids from their parents like.

entirely and that was not unique to. newava and that happened uh in a lot of. temples around the country in the US but. but is pedophilia happened in these. temples well did but I will say again to. isan's credit that unlike the Catholic. Church once the evidence started to. emerge that there had been I think it's. fair to say systemic you know raping of. kids uh at their religious facilities. they addressed the issue head-on uh and. for the most part I think have done an.

excellent job of you know weeding out. the pedos and what happened to the kids. because it's not just that it it it. seems like it wasn't isolated it was all. the kids at new vavin yeah mean this is. what you're kind of mostly boys I think. mostly boys yeah yeah they are they have. um communities online and there's a lot. of um there's a lot of bitterness you. know it it varies it varies you can't. totally General I but you know the kids.

that grew up in Newan Davin U you know. they have online communities where. there's a lot of like for obvious. reasons like resentment and bitterness. and anger yeah obv still at the. leadership of of of the Hari Krishna. movement for not in their opinion you. know fully atoning for the sins that. occurred there wow what could they do. all right well there there was a. settlement there was some lawsuits there. was some settlements but I mean you know. fix anything no doesn't fix anything it. acknowledges that something happen but. you're ruining a child for Life yeah.

yeah and you're doing it in the most. evil way cuz you're supposed to be a. part of this peace and love movement. that's like the optimal way to live life. right yeah well and that's why this guy. Charles St Dennis Chaka was was murdered. is he he was calling out Kiran for his. hypocrisy now I don't know if he called. him out for the you know raping kids but. like kando was having. like uh gay sexual relationships with.

some with some uh laborers that had been. hired to come help build the temple that. weren't necessarily devotees and it was. like an Open Secret you know in the. commune and he called him out for it and. also called him out for the materialism. for like driving around in a limousine. for having like you know they would buy. him a new you know fancy SUV every year. or whatever you know and Charles St. Dennis called him on his [ __ ]. publicly and that's what got him killed. wow. yeah [ __ ] man it's uh I I know quite a.

few people that grew up in Cults you. know in stand-up comedy you deal with a. lot of like lost people like Wayward. folks that just didn't fit in anywhere. in society and a couple of my friends. one of my good friends grew up at. Jehovah's Witness and you know it's just. you you live in this world that is this. very. strange s sort of I mean it just doesn't.

make any sense it's illogical it's crazy. it doesn't fit and once you start. questioning things you you find like. you're not allowed to and. it's it's just very bizarre how many of. these like I was having a conversation. with Mark Andre you know the venture. capitalist guy and he was like. California still has a lot of active. Cults right now I was like really he. goes oh yeah there's a lot so like. there's ones you don't hear about where. they kind of keep it together right so I. guess there's like have to go completely.

like holy hell sideways before you get a. documentary right some of them they. figure out how to kind of keep everybody. together it's probably harder to to keep. [ __ ] under wraps these days than it was. for K Nanda in the 70s and 80s with the. internet for sure everybody's got a. phone and yeah it's all it's also like. people are much more aware of what a. cult is now I bet in the 1960s it just. seemed like a beautiful alternative to. you know I mean you're dealing with the. Civil Rights Movement Jim Crow anti-war.

movement Vietnam is happening you've got. Richard Nixon's the president there's. all this chaos they don't people don't. want the world that's in front of them. right now and they're searching for some. alternative then it comes along What. About Love what about this yeah that's. what I want right and then the next. thing you know you're wrapped up in this. thing yeah you know I talking about the. pedophilia stuff uh I'm going to take. this on a detour because there's. something I wanted to say last time I. was on your show which is that I am. convinced that you saved at least one.

kid's life was something that you said. the last time I was on which is that we. were talking about my own experiences as. a survivor of childhood sexual assault. and you told a story about how when you. were a kid you were in a library and. this like sick [ __ ] pedophile guy like. was trying to get you out of the library. yeah and a librarian stepped in and. basically saved you from this guy do I. have that do I have that correct yeah. absolutely Okay the reason that I think. you saved at least one kid's life is. this because. and again speaking from firsthand.

experience as a male Survivor especially. of childhood sexual assault you you. think like how could I have let that. happen to me why didn't I defend myself. why didn't I fight the guy off you know. even though intellectually you look at a. seven eight nine year old boy you're. like you got no chance against a grown. man right but for you know Joe Rogan to. say like a Liberian saved me from this. happening to me right because you're a. tough guy okay you're perceived is a. tough guy I think rightly so now now.

right now seven or eight or right right. right but but but I I I hope I'm. articulating my point which is that it. can yeah yeah yeah and and and for a guy. that's like suffering that and thinking. like why didn't you know it just helps. when when somebody in in a position like. yourself you know says like he you know. could have happened to me easily it. almost did I mean I was on my way out. the door right yeah it could have if. that librarian hadn't called out my name.

I think about that all the time you know. what what would happened to me how would. who I would have become you. know it's um it's one of the the darkest. forces in in the world like this and I. don't understand why it's so prevalent I. just like and I think you know I've. equated it to vampires that it seems. like one of the things that happen. happens to some of the people that get. molested as they wind up doing it to.

others yeah and that is a harsh truth I. mean I try and do what I can to dispel. the The Stereotype because um you know. that was one of the things that you know. scared the [ __ ] out of me when I was a. teenager is is the idea that I was going. to become a pedophile myself right right. um but yeah that's unfortunate you know. it's that hurt people hurt people cliche. right there's truth behind it it is with. violence it is with everything with with. some when something Happ filia which. let's just call what it is raping kids.

is just an incredibly destructive force. in our culture and in all C cultures and. I just like it's the one kind of. criminal I think that I just have. absolutely no sympathy for none nor do I. None no most people feel the same way I. mean when you talk about like um one of. my daughters is very much against the. death penalty and I think for a good. reason and because we've had. conversations about people that are. unjustly accused and she knows that I've. had many people on my podcast that spent. a long time in jail for crimes that they.

didn't commit and and some of them were. on death row and they they could have. been executed and I said and we were. talking about it we said in a perfect. scenario when you absolutely know that. the law has got the right person and. that this person has done something and. then they have killed people whether. it's a serial killer or whatever it is. yeah maybe the death penalty makes sense. but we don't have a perfect legal system. right but and then the the subject of. child molesters came up and they were.

like oh no kill them all like every. everybody's you know it's it's almost. like it's an instinctual reaction yeah. it's especially my my wife mothers you. know they they hear that and it's just. like that's the one like you you have to. kill them cuz they never [ __ ] stop no. they don't stop it's a weird sickness. it's a it's a it's just so strange that. it's not a very very rare uncommon thing. you know that like exists like in a. handful of places in the world.

occasionally yeah but then when you hear. about something like the Catholic Church. you know there was um uh Pope Benedict. when he got kicked out um there was uh a. lot of uh people that didn't understand. what was going on and I was uh looking. into it and I I you you you find out. what that guy did and one of the things. that he did that's so evil is he would. move people so he would take a a priest. that was molesting kids and just move. them to another unsuspecting place and.

um he went on to molest one one of these. guys that they caught went on to molest. a hundred deaf kids at least a hundred. that they that they're aware of and you. just go like and he knew that this guy. was a pedophile and and it just the. Catholic church in particular is just so. like I went to Catholic school and. nothing happened to me and but things. did happen to people that I know that. did go to Catholic school and it's just. like is there another religion that is.

more connected like when you hear the. term Catholic priest right pedophile is. right like if you if you were playing a. game like Catholic P pedophile you know. like you would say that you know if. you're what is that charades what's that. game when you know like you say uh you. know uh uh tough uh big runs fast. football player yes you know like you. would say uh Catholic priest pedophile. like you know what I'm saying it's right. right and it was an Open Secret for so. long too you know yeah it's crazy I.

think a lot of the priests were probably. drawn to the church for the access to. kids I mean k Chanda Anand Davin built. himself a little pedophile Heaven up. there you know once he had the power so. how did they have you did you talk to. anybody from there that kind of reformed. that place like how did they once they. got rid of him well first of all he. finally went to prison for murder uh for. com you know murder For Hire basically. along with racketeering and like he was.

he was selling like counterfeit you know. football hats and [ __ ] Ian is he still. in jail or is no he's dead he's dead but. he still has like within not within. iscon but within the larger sort of. Krishna Consciousness movement he still. has um he still has a falling and I went. I went to his tomb that's in vavan India. and uh I had you know like a translator. kind of fixer with me and I had one. camera guy and we sort of [ __ ] way. in and it was this creepy [ __ ] place.

man it was like this um this sort of. like almost Soviet block looking. apartment it was all half finished like. there was his tomb and there were. flowers and incense and photos of him. and stuff and it was basically after he. he got out of prison eventually as an. old man and he went to India and. Pakistan and like drew a following of. like Pakistani and boys basically that. are now men and their 20s and 30s and. they occupy this sort of compound around.

his. tomb and the one that we sort of. [ __ ] away past was starting to get. like a little suspicious of what we were. doing and of and of our story which is. like that we were just tourists. basically that had sort of wondered by. this place and were interested by it and. all these dudes just started coming out. of these they look like vacant buildings. but they clearly weren't you know all. these like followers were cend on them. the translator's like it's time to go. now time to go now time to go now time. to go now and so you know we Boogie out.

of there wow yeah but he still has like. followers and frankly even within iscon. he still has sort of quiet supporters. Jesus yeah yeah in um holy hell they. talk about this guy that they kicked out. he's he's still on the loose and they. they flew him to Hawaii and he started a. called in Hawaii and in the documentary. they show him in Hawaii with his devote. just taking them around opening the door.

for him the whole deal. right it's so strange the cult thing is. so bizarre because it's so it's so. common and it's it just seems like. there's so many people that want to be. led by someone who has the answers cuz. most people are like you and I they like. try to do our best live our life [ __ ] up. make mistakes try to figure out what. makes you happy like what's this all. about what is life you know what what. are we doing here. yeah and for some when someone comes.

along and says I have the answers you're. like oh this guy's got the answers I. need the [ __ ] answers like what are. the answers and yeah I will say you know. I've spent a lot of time with with Hari. Krishna or with Krishna Consciousness. devotees you know they making that show. and generally speaking they are positive. peaceful Souls they seem at peace with. their place in the world in a way that. you know I I frankly found sort of. compelling and attractive you know so.

it's easy to see and maybe they do have. the answers maybe this ancient like. spiritual tradition is at least part of. the answer right well it certainly can. be an answer for some people if you are. of the right mindset and if you're truly. trying to be on that path but the. problem is it's so easy to be. subverted it's like someone can come. along and slowly kind of take over and. and twist it true with any religion yeah.

yeah I mean look at tell evangelists. right right I mean there's real. Christians out there that are really. great wonderful people that want to live. by the teachings of Christ and and live. a better more just and holy life and. they really do want to live like that. and then there's psychos who want. private jets and a giant Arena to have. all their followers and they want. mansions and yeah yeah those guys are. real and they they they Thrive they're. everywhere well one of K kanda's.

enforcer and Hitman was this guy named. Thomas dresser uh whose Christian name. was Tita and he like drove the bus there. was a school bus it would not he wasn't. it wasn't driving kids around but they. they bought a school bus to kind of take. people from one part of the you know. commune to another whatever but really. why he was there and he was one of the. dudes that like joined the he he was in. Vietnam Vietnam combat. vet um I think it's saw hardcore combat. Vietnam came back bent in the head mhm.

was trying to find the answers trying to. find help probably for PTSD found the. har Krishna joined but the first temple. or two that he was at they were like. something a little off about this guy so. let's send him to Kanda kand met this. dude was like oh I got a purpose for you. brother you know you're now enforcer. number one and so if you [ __ ] up if. like you weren't supposed to have a. television or if you broke the rules or. you defied kand in any way if you if you. got some money from your family you. didn't kick it to him. Tia came and paid you a visit okay wow.

and when and when K when kand started. whacking dudes basically it was TI that. did it oh you know he. just just shoot you and yeah yeah he was. he was he was smart he he buried uh. Charles St Dennis's body he diverted a. little creek and by damning it up and. then buried the body and then took away. the dam so the whole so the the the the. homicide cop Thomas Westfall he was like. I was looking for that body everywhere. and never thought to look under the The. Little River you know did they bring.

Kadabra dogs to try to search for it I. don't think they brought dogs eventually. like what happened was and the reason. that Kiran why they finally got him is. that Tita flipped on him they now they. arrested Tita Thomas dresser for murder. because there was another devote that. got killed in Los Angeles that was also. sort of outing Kiran andand and his you. know corruption whatnot and um so they. got dresser and once he was in prison. like kand held the ceremony and like.

appointed him to this like high status. within Krishna Consciousness and of. course that was like a way to try and. keep him quiet right and he remained a. Believer but then there was this. incident known as the winnabago incident. where Kanda there's this was writing in. a winnabago with this like I think it. was a little boy from like Pakistan or. India and the like curtains jostled open. and he was seen in full view by multiple. Witnesses like sodomizing this kid. and like too many people saw it to cover.

it up right and word got to Thomas. dresser in prison that this had happened. and he heard from enough people who he. trusted and believed that it this was. true that he immediately flipped on. Kirin Ananda and said like yep he paid. me and ordered me to kill these guys and. here's where you can find the BX so he. didn't know that K he didn't believe it. he didn't believe it he was a True. Believer you know he didn't want to. believe it so it was only when he was. you know he didn't firsthand witness it. himself but it's only when he was faced.

with like multiple people who he trusted. who were telling him we saw this it's. true you know and then to his credit I. think he he uh he immediately flipped. you know we tried to we tried to do an. interview with him but um he uh we. couldn't get into the prison to get him. to go on camera so we do in the show we. do have audio interview excerts with. dresser wow. the one of the saddest things about holy.

hell is they talked to some of the. devotees that had left and now they're. lost because they had. essentially they they had left 20 years. of their life with this guy and and now. here they were 50 and like this one lady. was like a dog walker now right she had. just kind of lost no real purpose in. life didn't you know her whole thing was. [ __ ] her whole life was [ __ ]. yeah and some of the kids that grew up. at newand davan under kinanda when it.

was it was legitimately a cult by any. definition um you know some of them are. still followers of Krishna Consciousness. some of them you know have left it way. behind right yeah and have nothing good. to say about that but some of them are. still like followers of prad's teachings. you know and they believe that Kiran was. an aberration I think that's probably. right I think that's probably right too. I mean my friend who's really into the. har krishnas he's a very peaceful guy. and the way he looks at it is like you.

know this is this is a way to to live. this is a possible way to live for some. people that if done correctly and done. with the right Spirit and the the right. mindset like really can be a beautiful. Blissful way of existing right and I. just I I like not only like I I I I buy. into the idea of karma reincarnation. that that reads is true that feels true. to me in reincarnation yeah yeah really. what what what reads is true what part. reads is.

true um. well uh then we get into DMT right all. right I I tried DMT uh when did you do. that it was in. 2013 and I'm a oneand done DMT guy don't. need to do it again okay so here's my my. DMT story is that in 1999 I was super in. the Rave scene and I was in London at. this 3-day Rave called The Warp and it. was the kind of party where it's was. like someone ask you the time you'd be. like it's 9:30 and they'd be like a.m.

or p.m. you know and it was a great. party right 3 days near the Tower of. London literally underground an. underground party literally underground. they had DJ rooms and dance rooms but. they also had these uh live performance. rooms and I saw this performance artist. called The technopagan Octopus. Messiah okay and he was he was. describing his DMT experience and I. hadn't heard about DMT and and and by. the way his stuff is fantastic I think. he's he's the he's come the closest of.

anybody except Terence McKenna and. actually like capturing what the DMT. experience is as a writer outside his uh. performance where the room where he's. performing there's this tent that just. said deep deep meditation therapy I was. like oh now I know what that means right. and I watched people doing DMT and I was. like uh I was already rolling on three. or four hits of MDMA so I was like well. not tonight but if it ever comes my way. I'm going to do it I made myself a. promise that night I'm not going to seek. this out but if it ever comes my way and. then it did and um in 2014 I just went.

to see a buddy mine in Brooklyn I was. working on a documentary out there and. he was like you want to try this I was. like okay before I change my mind let's. do this and 15 minutes later I believed. in. reincarnation I believed in karma and. reincarnation. so I felt a lot better about death yeah. I felt a lot better about death too. after I did it. well with my experience was that I got.

you know a short Glimpse that's sort of. a user manual for the cosmos and in. there was the knowledge that. reincarnation is real that the Buddhists. have it right that after you die you go. to the BAU for 49 days your soul is out. there you get a chance to kind of like. assess the last life you led uh before. you take another spin on the. carousel learn what you can get rewarded. for your good Deeds suffer for your sins. and then go back and I believe it but I.

also just like it you know I just like. it it it it feels true to me in a way. that like the the uh evangelist or. fundamentalist Christian idea of like. you can just do a bunch of bad [ __ ] and. then you know promise yourself to Jesus. and have a clean slate [ __ ] that I'm not. buying that you know you know Karma and. reincarnation I'm buying it there's. something there I mean it just it it's. fascinating that that concept has. existed for so long you know and even.

the concept of Heaven that existed for. so long right and and angels and souls. and and all those things um I think we. have a very limited ability to grasp. reality and I think that limited ability. is biological it's it's it's kind of. based upon our our primate Origins and. what we are as a as a thing as a. biological entity we only we have. essentially the tools that we need in. order to survive and those tools are the.

ability to recognize danger and. communicate. and establish community and purpose and. and all these different things. but when you have like real breakthrough. psychedelic experiences to me it seems. like it's allowing. you a vision into all that exists not. just what you're physically capable. seeing as a human being but this.

chemical Gateway or whatever it is that. that psychedelics give you allows you to. see that these. things what I got out of it is that. everything is connected every action. every thought your thoughts your life. your words your your your Deeds the the. way you approach things the way you. respond to things that they're all. connected in some very strange way. and the living my.

life the the more I follow that as. thinking that everything is all. connected the more my life has been more. beautiful right the more my life has. been more rewarding and Rich and more. more pleasing more filled with love and. community and it's something that I kind. of need to like remind myself all the. time because I think the biological. entity. has certain like human reward systems.

that are built into it try to acquire. resources to try to uh you know to try. to establish dominance to try to uh. succeed there's all these different. things that as a human you know people. are they want success they want all. these different things and that those. things can kind of because you could see. the physical manifestation of that work. that that can. sort of uh.

overcome the idea that everything is. connected and so that's I think why. people cheat on their taxes or Insider. trade or do all these different things. [ __ ] people over in business deals and. they don't think that they're going to. experience any negative consequences of. it right but I don't think I don't think. anybody gets away free again that's why. I like the idea of kmen reincarnation. you don't get away with there's. something to it there's something to and. again going back to the vadas like. oldest spiritual you know organized. system of spiritual beliefs known you.

know for our species that's core to it. well we have reincarnation the most. complicated organism we are the most. complicated organism that we're. currently aware of in terms of our. ability to manipulate our environment. our ability to communicate our ability. to create things yeah but we don't have. an operator's manual right which is. crazy so we're essentially running on. this primate software that was really.

established it's almost like we have. Doss or Windows 95 and we just keep. refreshing it right you know we don't. there's no real new operating system and. it's so filled with flaws the the human. operating system is designed to ward off. predators and to fight off neighboring. tribes and and try to avoid starvation. and to try to make sure that your genes. pass on and that your enemy's genes. don't. and to to you know to exist in 2024 and.

modern Western World with all of our. technology and all of our knowledge and. all the information that we have. available with this ancient primate. software yeah is so problematic it's so. fraught with Peril there's so so many. things that can go wrong and so many. people that go sideways with drug. addiction and gambling addiction and sex. addiction and this addiction and that. addiction and and so much chaos and you.

know thievery and violence and you know. and deception and fraud and there's just. so many things that exist that are. negative but are tied to this concept of. achieving and getting. more which is you know this this famine. based mentality this resource acquiring. mentality that really is like the monkey. stealing your sunglasses so it can get. mangoes it's really you know no totally. agree and uh I felt like with DMT I got. like a very short it was like I felt.

like there was this sensient generally. benevolent Force out there in the cosmos. that was like okay look I'm going to. give you a lot of information you're not. going to be able to retain most of it. right but you're ready here we go yeah. and one of the things that I brought. back that I still believe a decade later. is that reincarnation is real that's how. it works karma is real that's how it. works what you do in this life affects. your next one so and that also gives you. like kind of that the user's guide. you're talking about about how to be a. better person how to be a better species.

yeah I didn't get a reincarnation Vibe. um I'm not opposed to the idea of. reincarnation but I got to vibe that. there's other things and there's other. dimensions there's other there's other. experiences and there may be levels of. existence and that this existence that. we're experiencing right now as human. beings is just very strange. confusing almost like. a puzzle that you are on this planet.

trying to solve and you can get. distracted yeah yeah you can get. distracted by all sorts of things in. this life but the things that bring you. happiness and love you have to kind of. like sort those out and and choose those. amongst the different options that the. puzzle gives you yeah you know this. podcast psychedelic Salon yeah okay sure. I had that guy on Lorenzo yeah Lorenzo. Lor Lorenzo he he great is I I recently. got to know him and he asked me to give. you a message because I guess two or.

three months ago you were musing about. whether or not you was still alive. because he hadn't posted any new. episodes recently he is still alive. that's his message Lorenzo's message and. after he heard that you'd raised that. question he's been posting oh that's. great yeah you connect me to him yeah. absolutely so Lorenzo Lorenzo and I in. the aforementioned technopagan octopus. massiah are in the process of. collaborating with some uh AI animation. artists on a documentary about the. stoned ape Theory I think is going to be.

dope have you seen Dennis McKenna's uh. assessment of it yeah he broke it down. on the podcast where he was explaining. to me the the actual mechanisms that. would be involved in Sil ayin. accelerating the the the human mind and. you know the ability to formate form. language and Concepts and creativity and. all the different things that that Mech. that parents talked about but you know. Dennis is like hardcore like fact-based.

scientist guy yeah you've had SE several. great guests on there talking about that. theory but I've been like there's about. to be already there's it's it's showing. signs but there's about to be just a. glut of AI animation movies espe even in. documentaries like I think AI animation. is going to replace you know Recreations. you know where they hire actors to. recreate stuff we did it in christas. right we we we recreated you know murder. scenes using actors in firearms and. stuff Firearms but I think but so I've. been approached with I don't even know.

how many ideas for like do AI animation. docks i' just been like gimmick gimmick. gimmick but this one really felt right. like a I think that Terrence McKenna. would have loved the idea of using AI. animation to like you know show the. evolution of of our species you know as. they pick the mushrooms out of the cow. [ __ ] and stuff and also one idea that. we're toying with I think we'll go. forward with now that we've actually you. know I think we've got the technology. actually dialed in. um where we' built this AI world this. Terren McKenna AI world where we can.

give it ideas and it'll spit back. imagery to us that feels right is. building some sort of like AI Avatar of. Terence McKenna so the idea is that the. do the spine of the documentary will be. any time where because Lorenzo has. incredible Archives of Terence McKenna. you know stuff that nobody else has yeah. he has everything and anytime you're. hearing Terence McKenna's voice. describing the stone ape Theory will. take people through it step by step. you'll be seeing AI animation of what.

he's describing so you're hearing. Terence McKenna's voice but seeing AI so. for people that don't know what the. stone ape theory is we should probably. explain it to them for people who' have. never heard it before and the concept is. that at one point in evolution um there. was climate change and that these. rainforest tropical rainforest had. receded into grasslands and that these. primates had started to experimenting. with different food sources by flipping. over Cow Patties and looking for grubs.

and all these different things and one. of the things that they would do is. probably test the mushrooms that were. growing in the Cow Patties right and in. many places where psilocybin exists. these things are extremely prevalent. like uh my friend Duncan who grew up in. Asheville North Carolina told me that. mushrooms were so prevalent that the. local ranchers had they started putting. feed in with the the cattle feed some. sort of. anti-fungal thing to keep fungus from.

growing and cow it because so many kids. were going on to the field picking the. mushrooms and picking psilocybin. mushrooms he's like they were everywhere. they were everywhere you know and um so. the the concept is that low doses of. psilocybin increase visual Acuity um. make people more Amorous so it probably. heightened sexual arousal made people. more likely to breed and made people uh. more Curious probably because of the.

increasing visual Acuity made people. better Hunters right better you know. there's there's studies that have been. done I forget what the scientist did was. a hardcore you know non psychedelic. scientist who did studies on edge. detection with uh patients right you. know these things and it showed that. people under the influence of psilocybin. can detect deviant like so if you have. two parallel lines and one slightly. deviates from parallel the people on. cocy can predict it much quicker can see. it much quicker than the people not on. Soul side which is fascinating then.

you'd be a much better Hunter much. better Hunter and yeah much better at. surviving being hunted and also just be. more tuned into things you're you're. more aware of like I know a lot of. people that use psilocybin when they. play certain Sports and they think that. psilocybin low doses like low do yeah. yeah low doses for playing pool and. things like that you just have a better. understanding of what's happening I I. attach to a low micro does for chess.

chess huh yeah yeah does it help you. really I think it does actually I can. demonstrate that it does you know in my. game ratings really absolutely. interesting now I don't know if I buy. the stone date theory in the same way. that I that I fully buy into you know. the concept of the BAU and reincarnation. Karma and all that but it's sure [ __ ]. fun to think about man well doesn't it I. mean it mimics DMT like psilocybin and. dimethyl trp are very closely related. yeah you know I. think I think when it's broken down I.

think I'm going to [ __ ] this up I think. it's n N4 faroy and and dimethyl. tryptamine it's like it's very close to. what dimethyl tryptamine is and you know. we also know that dimethyl tryptamine is. endogenously produced you know it's. produced in the human brain we don't we. don't even understand why and you know. that's all Rick stman who wrote that. book DMT the spirit molecules talked. about that and they've done a lot of. great research at the Cottonwood. research Foundation trying to try to. determine like where it's produced why.

it's produced they used to think it was. just produced by the pineal gland now. they think I believe it's produced by. the whole brain and that this this thing. that these these primates were finding. was giving them that and giving them. more of an understanding of the world. around them and expanding the brain and. the other thing about the human um the. the concept of the stone date theory is. this bizarre fact. in the history of humans that in the.

entire spe like the record of species. one of the biggest mysteries is the. doubling of the human brain size over a. period of two million years and McKenna. says that that coincides with this exact. same time period where the tropical. rainforests were receding into. grasslands and then they believe that. these primates were experimenting on new. food sources so there's all these things. that sort of line up with it and it. makes it a fact fascinating idea but if. you think about like if they found out. that this thing gives them this feeling.

and they were you know they're. repeatedly using it over and over and. over again and then their their. offspring did it and their offspring did. it and and and you're you know playing. this out over a couple million years you. could see how this would happen yeah. also the development of language yes. right yes the glossia. yeah yeah thank you um you know like. high doses right activates The Language. Center so like I said I'm not sure I buy. it but you know should be a fun movie to.

make something happened yeah it's very. obvious it's something happened that. separated us from all the other primates. like in a radical way we don't look. anything like them right we have. abilities. and we have so many attributes that are. far beyond any other primate and it kind. of makes sense yeah and also there's you. know there's people that can achieve. those states without psychedelics which. is fascinating and I've gone pretty. close with uh with some breathing.

exercises and um especially breathing. exercises in sensory deprivation you can. you can achieve some definite. psychedelic States I haven't had the. full visual effects that that are. available with DMT but boy you. definitely get to some bizarre place. where if it was a drug it would be a. very popular drug well back to the. Christians that's what paod was. preaching in a lot of his early devot. were people that had taken a lot of acid. or mesculin right or peyote yeah and.

felt like they were getting glimpses of. something but they couldn't like. understand it and he's like let me show. you how to get there right without the. drugs right right and what was pra pod. using to try to get there meditation. yeah yeah just deep meditation yeah I. think I think there's chanting chanting. of like ancient sacred mantras and. meditation yeah well that's the other. thing that happens with DMT rituals that. they play EOS these uh ancient South. American songs that sort of you know.

enhance the experience like when you do. DMT with ecos playing the DMT dances to. the sound and it's very strange to watch. it's beautiful. bizarre and you know it's overwhelming. like you can't it's hard to believe that. it's really happening while it's. happening and you know you got to kind. of let go and just like let it happen. and experience it because you're so. blown away by it all it's hard to just.

not just go what the [ __ ] like every 5. Seconds yeah you got to kind of just. take it in and accept it yeah I tried to. get my dad to try DMT my dad died. recently and about six months ago I. tried to get him to try DMT I was like. listen you know until I tried this dad. you know I was like same as you like. basically Spock like cold logic reason. right you know like that's my dad super. smart like math medical genius was my. dad and uh he was like well it sounds.

interesting but I guess if you're right. I'll find out on my own cuz I was like. this is kind of like the trailer for the. movie dad interesting I'll find out on. my own yeah interesting so yeah he he uh. he died like two weeks ago while I was. in Ukraine oh wow yeah what were you. doing in Ukraine I was uh reporting I. was working I wasn't filming but I was. uh doing some research and I was in a I. was in a war zone I mean the whole. [ __ ] country is a war zone but I was. in a war zone where like Communications. were dicey at best and I got a text.

message from my wife on Signal it was. like your dad's heart valve is failing. rapidly he's in the hospital he's. probably got like 48 hours to live and. the airspace over Ukraine's closed so. there's no way that I could get from. where I was in Ukraine to Anchorage. Alaska to be with him and so I was just. sending like text messages on Signal to. the nurses that were and they were. reading them to him wow yeah yeah and. then I was able to record one voice memo. like right as he was going cu the last.

sense uh to go when you're dying is. sense of hearing and they they they. played him like a like a message from me. wow so but to answer your question but. what was I doing in Ukraine. um looking it I'm looking into a. possible documentary that that' be set. against the backdrop of the current War. but that would be more about like what. is actually the true nature of. corruption in Ukraine and what has it. been and when what was it in the 90s you. know yeah and what is it today and like.

how has the US state department kind of. [ __ ] up again in the same way that we. did in Vietnam and every war like. Vietnam Afghanistan Iraq by backing the. wrong horses you know well we've never. not [ __ ] up yeah there's never been. one well whether it's Libya or. Afghanistan Iraq there's not one what. you could point to like we nailed that. one right there's not one right there's. not one right and uh you know when there. was so much resistance to the concept. that Ukraine was corrupt when we first.

started backing them you know that was. what was fascinating to me because it. was always talked about how corrupt. Ukraine was it was always talked about. then all a sudden this was there was. this was a forboding topic like no. Russia is the aggressor and The Invader. and Ukraine are their angels and they're. like wa wait a minute you know there's. this is not that's not reality like well. was also that we would the US government. would be like okay we would we would. sort of designate who is corrupt and who.

wasn't I mean look the US went through. its own sort of oligarchy like Robber. Baron phase you know in the late 1800s. that was like after we've been a. democracy for a hundred years it's not. unfortunately it's kind of a step on the. evolution of Dem free democracies to. have this phase where you're like you. know things are super corrupt like I I. uh I I spent some time at a at a. Orthodox uh Monastery in Ukraine last. month and I asked the sort of head of. the monastery like what would you have. to do to get rid of corruption in this. country he's like well I'm a man of God.

you know he's speaking through an. interpreter he's like I'm a man of God. so I'm not advocating this but what you. could do is you could take because the. main problem Ukraine right now as I. understand is the judicial system they. have what they they call telephone law. which is basically like before a judge. makes a ruling he gets a phone call. telling him which way to rule oh Jesus. you know and so he's the this the head. of this Monastery was like you could. line up every uh every judge and shoot. him and then and then and then all the. judges or all the like government. officials that come to their funerals.

shoot them and do that two or three. times and then we might be able to start. over like he was saying that's how. systemic this is but Jesus I mean man of. God's telling you this that's a guy. who's like reached the limits yeah yeah. oh my God but I tell you my time in in. in Ukraine really changed my perspective. on that war and I came back a real sort. of Hawk thinking that we should fully. support Ukraine really War yeah why is. that um part of it was just being with. the people who the Ukraine I just like.

the ukrainians you know in a way that. I've been to other former Soviet block. countries and it's kind of like I won't. name any of them but I just feel like ah. I'm not sure you guys are really down. with the freedom and democracy thing you. know um it seems like you've been you. were subjugated for a while and and you. don't it just didn't get the same Vibe. like I think that ukrainians are. legitimately Freedom loving people okay. that have been like under the thumb of. corrupt leadership for decades now yeah.

but um to just part of it was it was. something very enthralling about being. in a place where everyone was so unified. like this country under attack being. invaded by a hostile Force now these are. the ukrainians that have stayed behind. Okay but there's still a lot of them I. mean and um just that in coming from. America where everything is so. splintered and divided now and to be in. a place where everyone is so on the same. page there is something very attractive.

about that well that is what happens. when you get invaded do you remember. what it was like in America after 9/11. right after 911 yeah it was the most. United this country has ever been and. it's a horrible thing to say right. because it's not what you ever want to. happen again to wake everybody up but it. was the thing that was required to make. people put American flags on their cars. and it was in a lot of way I mean it was. a hard horrible tragedy but in a lot of. ways the reaction to it was very. beautiful there was so many people that.

were so I was in New York City like just. a few weeks or a few months after 911. and everybody was friendly was crazy it. was like everybody was just so blown. away by the experience of being attacked. and so just shaken out of it and so. aware of how fortunate they were to not. be one of those people who died and that. we are legitimately all all together and. that there are forces out there that are. evil and that we have to stay United and.

I hate to think that that's what's. required to wake people up from this. division but I always wonder like I. wonder if maybe the division that we. have in this country is because of the. fact that we're never attacked and. because of the fact that we we we only. experienced a few of the Pearl Harbor. 911 there's only a few of these moments. where we've had to wake up yeah yeah the. uian islands actually Alaska were were. were attacked and occupied by Japanese. forces in World War II little known fact.

yes that's actually American territory I. didn't know that um but but I mean we we. [ __ ] man I mean the ukrainians they. they had nuclear weapons and in 1994 the. quote unquote West the US and the UK. basically convinced them you know to. give up their nukes in exchange for a. guarantee that we would help them. protect their Sovereign territory right. you know yeah yeah that was right after. the fall. of the Soviet Union yeah yeah yeah there. there's so many factors right there's.

the NATO encroaching on Russia's. territory I mean 2004 like NATO started. handing out membership cards like. [ __ ] crackerjack prizes right Putin. gets reelected in 2004 20 years ago and. all of a sudden like all these former. Soviet you know small territories are. now NATO countries yeah hey you want to. be NATO oh well great now now we're like. sign up for a mutual defense treaty with. Lithuania you know nothing against. lithuanians but [ __ ] man you know this. is this is getting serious it's very. serious what happens if he if he invades.

a NATO country like what are we going to. do right you know because China's. watching and I'll tell you you know been. like under Fire would be over dramatic. but I have I've had quite a few Iranian. [ __ ] Shahid drones launched in my. general direction recently it gives you. another perspective on like you know. Russia's support for Iran and vice versa. mhm you know like Mutual enemy of ours. like those are Iranian [ __ ] drones.

being shot at us and I don't know you. know Russia recently had Hamas like had. a delegation from Hamas visit the. Kremlin I mean the [ __ ] man really yeah. you know so anyway this is a [ __ ]. sketchy time it really is I mean it's to. you know to say like oh like World War. III is emminent it sounds Dooms but it. feels like it could go that way and. China you know they're they're looking.

at that's the problem if we if we sort. of like showed our ass and back down you. know if if if Putin keeps going um is. then China may just test that red. linew with Taiwan yeah well I think. they're preparing for that yeah at least. when I've talked to people that. understand you know I just I mean I. think that the war in Ukraine could have. been prevented I think that there was. this false dichotomy where there were. forces in the US government and this is. part of the documentary I want I want to.

make is about that forced you there was. like you either have to be you know a. puppet of Russia or our puppet you have. to either have to be NATO or going. there's no middle ground when when in. fact I think that Ukraine could have. been a bridge a peaceful bridge between. Russia and the quote unquote West where. maybe it could have join the European. Union economically free trade but not. joined NATO right what Putin was so. adamant against and you understand I. mean I think he's a war criminal [ __ ].

power mad you know [ __ ] right but you. can sort of see from his perspective if. you look at a map and you start to see. all these NATO countries around Russia. you kind of see you know what what. motivates him well that's the people in. the state department had always said. that was his Red Line his red line was. Ukraine yeah yeah and then when they're. trying to get Ukraine to join NATO it's. like what are we doing right what are we. doing we bringing about World War III. and why and how much money is being. spent right and where's that money going.

right yeah and who's who's got a vested. interest in keeping that money flowing. yeah that's where it gets scary right. that's that's what I'm looking into and. I don't want to tip tip my hand too much. but I think I've got pretty convincing. evidence that the US Department of. Justice has been used by the US state. department to further US foreign policy. interests in Ukraine in ways that aren't. really like right like bringing either. bringing criminal charges against people. you in the US but like ukrainians like.

charging them with crimes in the US. including some people that have never. even set foot in the United States. charging with crimes or getting them out. of trouble like dropping criminal. charges against them to sort of like and. again it goes back to like our. designating you're you're a good guy. you're a bad guy you know you're corrupt. you're not even they're both just. grabbing you know billions with both. hands so it's so [ __ ] scary time man. it really is it's wild to me that zinsky. is the president too that you have.

essentially a comedian who played the. president on a television show and. they're like we like you if they hel if. they held an election today he he would. not he would not be reelected no no no. but then they support him it's. interesting it's like you ask them do. you support the president they say yes. like we're at War would you vote for him. no why what was their. opposition I think he's mismanaging the. war you know and also I think they. suspect that he's corrupt yeah and I.

think he probably is but but that. doesn't but the fact that look the fact. that 50 cents of every dollar that we. send there you know this isn't actually. how it goes down but even if that was. the case is going into somebody's pocket. doesn't mean that we can just turn. Ukraine over to Russia in my opinion I. think that we should be backing them. full on militarily not with US troops. but giving them what they need to fight. because you know I talked to a lot of. Special Forces guys over there they were. like basically like those Russian human.

waves attacks were just like mowing. these guys it's not even really combat. we're just mowing these guys down until. we run out of bullets and then we have. to retreat you know those are the. battles that's what Putin's able to. do um because he's got so many guys and. he's also letting people out of jail. yeah yeah letting people out of jail and. giving them you you serve and your time. is your sentence is rescinded well so. people think of Russia and they think of. Moscow and St Petersburg but you look at. that country on a map it's [ __ ]. massive hug there's so much territory.

east of the ear mountains there just a. bunch of villages what we call fly over. country right well he's off Putin is. offering deals like sign up where it's. like you know more money than they make. in a year per month a and then B if. you're killed your family's set up for. life they can buy a house you know. whatever yeah so it's very attractive. offers for these really poor people from. rural Russia and then they're using them. as just human cannon f 100%. 100% it's a it's just I I just can't.

remember a time in my life where things. that just seemed so. unhinged no no I I asked my parents. about that too my dad before he passed. they were like no we don't remember even. like Watergate Vietnam era you know they. weren't really old enough to remember. the Great Depression but even that was. just sort of limited to the US I mean I. know there global you know uh effects of. that Ricochet of that but um yeah. it's it feels it feels like it could.

like it could go sideways on us in a in. a hurry yeah yeah it does and then what. does that look like that's what's. terrifying what's terrifying. is if you're willing to do like let's. say what Israel is doing in Gaza if. you're willing to almost eliminate a. city just bomb the [ __ ] out of a city. and kill. who knows how many Innocents what is. what are the numbers it's a 30,000 I. don't know what the numbers are what.

what's what's the line that keeps you. from dropping a nuke that kills. 300,000 what's the line like when at. what when you know why why are. we why do we have this idea that it. won't accelerate to that when it has in. the past it's just because it only did. we only did it once right in Japan in. 1945 is that that what it is I agree. with I mean I agree with your assessment. that danger 100% that's another reason. why I think that we have to help Ukraine.

stop Putin now because if he keeps going. into Ukraine and then he he he he. invades a NATO country and we decide. that we've got to go up against him is. there any evidence that he would do that. that he would invade a NATO country I. don't think he'll stop I think dude he's. been in power for a long time for a. leader of Russia I think that he I mean. I watched that Tucker Carlson interview. right yeah and that history lesson that. that he delivered at the beginning that. everyone was like what the [ __ ] is he. talking about and Tucker just looked. baffled I was I I got it I actually.

thought him getting an insight into. Putin's motivations and the way that he. sees himself which is is a historic. figure he sees himself as someone who's. going to restore a Russian Empire he. like spends all day in the halls of the. Kremlin with like you know portraits of. Ivan the Terrible and Katherine the. Great right and I think that he's seeing. himself as not the leader of a you know. a free country certainly but it's. someone who's going to restore a Russian. Empire so no I absolutely do not think.

he will stop with Ukraine no way so then. if he doesn't and then he invades a NATO. country and we go up against him man. those documents leaked recently from. Russia that were showing what their. lines were for when they would start. using quote unquote tactical nukes and. you know I think he'd do it I think he'd. do it I don't think he will what are the. lines well they were whatever if they. started to a certain percentage of. troops I I can't recall the specifics. but they were like. shockingly um shockingly uh liberal on.

when they would start to use tactical. nukes in on on the battlefield in Europe. you know Jesus um like if they started. to have certain percentages of. Battlefield losses not in the current. situation but like as as they go further. into into Ukraine or or in you know or. in a war that came into Russian. territory so I just think you know we. should stop this [ __ ] now this [ __ ]. being Putin is it possible. I think it is possible I think it's. possible. to uh.

essentially let him have what's this jam. oh yeah criteria for a potential nuclear. response range from an enemy incursion. on Russian territory to more specific. triggers such as destruction of 20% of. Russia's strategic ballistic missile sub. missile submarines this is the first. time we've seen documents like this. reported in the public domain said. Alexander gab how' you say that gabo. your guess is W director of Carnegie. Russia Eurasia Center in Berlin they. show that the operational threshold for.

using nuclear weapons is pretty low if. the desired result can't be achieved. through conventional means Russia's. tactical nuclear weapons which can be. delivered by land or sea launched. missiles from or from an aircraft are. designed for limited Battlefield use in. Europe and Asia as opposed to the larger. strategic weapons intended to Target us. modern tactical Warheads can still. release significantly more energy than. the weapons dropped on Nagasaki and.

Hiroshima in. 1945 although the files date back 10. years or more experts claim they remain. relevant to current Russian military. Doctrine the documents were shown to the. Ft by Western. sources so to answer your question I. think that you know the territory that. that that Putin has taken you know and. again also we like just like we didn't. back come up after the security uh. assurances that we gave we the US uh. gave Ukraine in 1994 2014 right there.

was that revolution in Ukraine and um in. response Putin invaded Crimea with the. little green men the guys that didn't. have an Insignia and the US state. department went to and and Ukraine was. going to fight and the US state. department went to Kei was like whoa. whoa whoa whoa chill out chill out chill. out just let him have Crimea we'll make. sure he stops there let's not escalate. things okay so we gave him our word. second time and then we broke it so to. answer your question I think that that. territory that that that Putin has.

seized my impression from talking with a. lot of ukrainians in recent weeks has. been that that they feel like Ukraine. could still be Ukraine without that. territory like the people like basically. like you could have like a three-week. period where people could either move. there if they want to be Russians or. they can leave if they want to be. ukrainians and then you could have a. kind of a North Korea South Korea DMZ. kind of situation I think that's. probably the best possible outcome right. now but even to do that again we've got. to properly arm the ukrainians so they.

can stop Putin from moving further into. their country and and actually taking. territory that they could not live. without so do you think ultimately he. plans on taking all of Ukraine yes 100%. I think he's 100% I mean he already he. it was it was when I was in keev and I. went to how close the fighting actually. got to the capitol city it was shocking. how close it was like that town bua. where there was all those atrocities. committed I mean there's this one I saw. this one Auto this this like massive.

graveyards of like Automobiles and what. happened was people were trying to get. out of this town as the Russian troops. the Russian because they invaded from. bellus from the north they came in and. they're trying to go like lightning. strike on. keev and they got within I think 10 12. kilometers of the city and then they got. stopped because the guys started blowing. Bridges Special Forces started blowing. Bridges and hitting them with javelins. and stuff and they actually stopped them. like incredibly Brave fighting um but. there was this one just like I came. across this just pile of just hundreds.

of blown up cars and I asked the locals. about it and some of them have been like. painted now with you know sunflowers and. you know Slava ukia glory glor to. Ukraine and and artists are trying to. make this less sort of maab um but what. it was was when the Russians invaded two. years ago like hundreds of families. piled in their cars and there was one. rode out of town but it was a trap and. the Russians cut it off on both sides. and then methodically using tanks blew.

up these cars full of. civilians just brutal [ __ ] and I know. there's like brutal [ __ ] on all sides in. all wars yeah but to see it firsthand. like that you know to talk to people. that saw that happen was it's tough so. yeah what is it like going over there. like leaving America and going over. there to try I mean what was the. craziest thing was you just you can just. walk in it was like it was like it's. harder to go into Tijana than it is to.

go to Ukraine like you just like like I. went in through it's I came yeah I came. out yes that's it wow I went in um I. came out through Poland and I went in. through Ro Romania Jes and I just like. all those cars. yeah oh my God oh my God so I flew to. Bucharest and then drove about 10 hours. to the border and then just like walked. across with my duffel bag and US. Passport it's really easy to get in just.

walked across yeah just walked right. across it was like five minutes did you. have it set up already to talk to people. I did I had set had set up security I. had really good security um these guys. were like Special Forces guys a tank. hunting team actually that had just. rotated off the front after fighting for. 2 years and we're you know so basically. like keeping me alive as a vacation. for them but they were really and I got. to be really good friends with this one. dude especially the guy that was like. cuz they worked in different ways it was.

a team but like there was one guy that. was like attached to my hip he was just. with me. 247 uh whose name was Andre and I got to. be really good buddies with this guy. just using like Google translate you. know oh wow even when The Interpreter. wasn't around just like really click. with this guy anyway um but yeah I did. have it set up where I had an. interpreter you know a driver and. security and then I had you know. conversations that I'd lined up but a. lot of them was people had documents or. people had information that the only way. I was going to get these documents or.

have them tell me this information was. to go to Ukraine that the only way they. were going to you know trust it trust. me how much different was it than what. you expected well it's it's it's I. really back to my new love for the. Ukrainian people um in keev like or laiv. which is which is a fantastic City it's. in eastern Ukraine near the Polish. border um. you know it's like you wouldn't until. until the Rockets and the Iranian. Iranian drones start flying into the.

city you wouldn't know anything was. going on people are out dressed nicely. going to dinner going to bars going to. clubs like they're out and about you. know and then all of a sudden the air. raid sirens go off and and then and. there's this there's this app that I. that I like jokingly texted my wife I. was like this is the worst video game. ever because it's this app that that. shows you what's incoming like what kind. of missiles and how many and what kind. of drones and how many and then as the. air defense systems shoot them down they.

like blip off the screen you know so you. can like see like the shit's coming your. way and like how many are they shooting. down it's like the worst version of. Missile Command because you can't. actually do anything right but yet. you're watching it wow and um in real. time yeah yeah yeah. God so and this just an app you can get. for your phone yeah yeah well the. security guys had it I don't know if. anybody everybody has an app on their. phone that alerts them when there's. incoming missiles or drones right and.

how do they know that that app has not. been compromised how do they know great. question I don't know great question is. this an app that's uh is it Windows and. Android you could yes you could get it. on your phone right now it's a matter of. fact before I went to ukra Ukraine I I. downloaded it and installed it I and I. thought it'd be Geo fenced but it was. like the middle of the night in New. Mexico and all of a sudden it's like air. raid air raid missiles incoming you know. like seek shelter so it's if if anybody. wants to experience what it's like to be. a Ukrainian right now you can download. this app what is it called uh let's take. a.

look is it available for all pH anybody. yes anybody can get it um I may have. taken it off actually but I'm sure if. you just like Google like Ukrainian you. know air raid app did you take it off. because you're tired of seeing Air Raids. yes yeah I didn't want that to I didn't. want it to sound anymore so I mean you. can you can pick which parts of the. country you wanted to alert you to but. yeah I mean it was. uh it was there was one day where the. the security guys were like it's not. safe to drive from where we were to keev. tomorrow so that's the bad news because.

every night we would have a go no go. kind of meeting for the next day and um. that was the one time that they were. like no go no go too much shit's going. on it's not safe to drive you know eight. hours to ke good news is it's snowing in. the Carpathian Mountains so we're going. to go skiing and I was like what and so. the next day we did we like drove five. hours of the mountains and there's this. fullon Ski Resort and there's just. people like the hundreds of families out. skiing and there's the [ __ ] war going.

on and it's and it's like a day of a. nation wide rate alert Red Alert which. means that like missiles were hitting. all over and so people are watching this. app on their phone and you can see the. stuff that's coming you know to to the. oblast which is like the state you know. that we're in and as the stuff is being. shot down like people are like cheering. from the chair lifts oh my God yeah oh. my God I mean it's just like that that. [ __ ] [ __ ] hug spirit that they have. is I think. impressive wow yeah yeah um I have a.

friend from Israel and uh uh I had he's. a kickboxing coach my friend Shuki and. when he was living in America he lives. in Israel now but when he was living in. America uh I went over his house for. dinner and him and his wife they' be. playing the Bongos and dancing and and. and I'm like you guys are like you have. so much Spirit like you're so filled. with fun yeah and he's like like my. friend when you live in Israel he goes. every day like you could die every day. is party party have a good time enjoy.

your life yeah and it's like the same. kind of thing unfortunately like post. 911 like you need something horrible to. happen for you to appreciate the good. and appreciate peace and appreciate. Joy yeah and that's what's that's a. crazy thought is that the thing that's. going to cure what fails us is conflict. and getting together and banding. together to fight a common evil which is.

just so bizarre or if we had like a War. of the Worlds kind of thing where like a. hostile like alien race attacked Earth. you remember when Ronald Reagan said. that to the UN yeah yeah it's like the. UFO fanatic's favorite speech when. Ronald Reagan said if we were faced with. a a hostile threat from an alien world. how quickly we would put aside our. differences yeah it's true I mean that's. one of the things that astronauts always. talk about when they go to the space. station so you look down on the earth. and you go my God what are we doing how. are we in conflict with each other over.

lines in the dirt. imaginary lines in the dirt that we. create for what like who's doing this. and why are we doing this we should all. be together we're we're we're this one. species that can communicate with each. other attach this ball that's hurling. through infinity and yet our territorial. primate instincts have us engaged in. this insane conflict that no one thinks. is ever going to end if you asked anyone.

today can you achieve in our lifetime no. war most people will say that's not. possible which is so strange and tragic. well it's also so crazy because it's a. function of human beings in large. numbers right because like if we were in. this room together and he said could you. imagine all three of us get along of. course easily I couldn't imagine us not. getting along we can talk we we'll. figure things out we have resources yeah. we'll be. fine make it 3 million people make it 30.

million make it 300 million and now you. got problems right and it's just and it. seems to be always the same thing that. you see when you have a cult you have. leaders and the leaders don't. necessarily have the best intentions for. everyone they have the best intentions. for themselves and for the people that. are providing them with money. and this is this is the Trap that we're. all stuck. in everyone on Earth all of us being led.

by groups that decide that they're in. control of these massive numbers of. people and they want control of the. resources of these other territories and. they want to do something to those. people and they'll have people convinced. this is your enemy you have to go kill. them people that you've never met you. have no issue with you don't know. anything about them youve you literally. never seen them before you might not. ever see them even when you're killing. them and this is a thing that we don't.

believe could ever be stopped in our. lifetime which is insane if you if you. really start to think about it that way. it sounds so insane like if you if you. were approached by an alien life form. that said what is the source of all this. murder and killing and destruction like. what is this it's like oh we're we're. being led we're we're we're a group and. we're being led by the the people that. are in charge of this group that are. very secretive and that are being. influenced by massive amounts of money.

and the military-industrial complex and. they've got everyone convinced that you. have to Res divert all of our resources. into attacking this other group that is. opposed to our way of life they hate us. for our freedom whatever the [ __ ] it is. and that this is what we have to do now. they would be like what is wrong with. you [ __ ] people like what what a. bizarre are wounded tainted species that. you think like this and not not just. think like this but think it's.

impossible to imagine this not existing. this the most. insane Venture that human beings can. ever engage in and you think it's. impossible for that to not be the case. yeah but almost all logical people if. you ask them is could you imagine no war. in your. lifetime no not now no not now I mean I. you know I just turned 50 three and I. think that like when I was a young man I. had a lot more optimism right and I. don't think it was just a function of.

like we growing being young in the 90s I. think was like the best it was like the. time of peace and prosperity yeah and it. seemed like we could get to Star Trek. right it seemed like we could maybe get. there right even Star Trek fight. Klingons yeah well you know you got to. fight somebody is that why it seems so. crazy I wonder if I mean this is we're. going to get really weird but I wonder. if that's where AI is leading us I re I. really genuinely do I wonder if the.

limitations of our primate. architecture will not allow us to escape. this NeverEnding cycle of war and that. maybe the only thing that will would be. an intelligence that far exceeds our own. and doesn't have the same limitations. motivations human reward systems all the. things that hold up. in these patterns and that an artificial. intelligence that is far superior to.

what we're capable of generating with. our monkey Minds be the only thing that. prevents us well back to DMT I think. that intelligence is already out there. we don't have to build it with computers. and AI here on Earth you know and DMT is. one conduit to it yeah mushrooms are. another meditation is another it's just. a a willingness. to set aside the petty [ __ ] which is. also why a lot of people believe those. things are illegal you know 100% I mean. if you have everybody realizing that.

we're all one United would kind of make. there's no money in that yeah there's no. money in. that well maybe the problem is money in. general like the concept of money you. know and I'm not a proponent of. socialism because socialism always leads. to Communism which leads to military. dictatorships that are dictating whether. or not you can do this or that and. there's always groups of people that. have massive resources. and they keep everybody else subjugated. and that's it's anybody that thinks that. socialism and communism is the.

future show me where it works ever it's. still human beings it's just like. whether it's Cults or militaries or. anything so it's there's human beings. that have immense power that is. unimaginable to the common person right. dictating what the common people can and. can't do and the only way to enforce. that is with force and with with killing. that's the only way with jailing people. killing people fear it's the only way to. get people to listen to you and to do.

what you want them to. do and I wonder if what we're doing with. artificial intelligence is. creating I think we're I think we're. going to merge that's what I think is. going to happen you know I'm sure you've. already seen this guy who they um the. first neuralink patient have you seen. this yeah so this first guy who's. paralyzed um with neuralink he's now. able to use a computer and he can move. cursors around with his mind and he can. play video games with his mind and he's.

been doing this and he talks about it. and it's like this is incredible this is. amazing and this is essentially the. Model T of you know this sort of human. computer interface biological interface. something that goes into your mind into. the brain itself and and and connects. with it and allows you to use things I. get why that would help a dude like in. his situation but do you have any. concerns about that like large scale of. course yeah yeah have concerns with.

everything that involves human beings. because I don't think there's ever been. a thing that involves human beings that. doesn't get co-opted and. corrupted there's always something. someone comes along that that uses it. and and has power and that's the. scariest thing about someone. achieving some sort of artificial. general intelligence some sort of super. intelligence especially something that's. cient and can figure out what we're. doing wrong and also figure out what was. done wrong to code it and make a better.

version of itself and I think I think. it's going it's going to lead to a new. life form I'm I'm almost positive of. that that that's what all this stuff is. doing it's going to achieve I mean have. you ever seen the the the head of Google. where he was talking about how their AI. has done things that they didn't expect. like it it learned a language like. instantaneously that it wasn't. programmed in and can translate that. language now and commun in that language. and they don't know how it did it well.

hey guys hit the [ __ ] breakes like. what you you don't know you don't know. what it's doing and you're just going to. keep feeding it okay where do you think. that goes it's going to be better than. us at everything and it's going to. realize that we're the cause of. pollution we're the cause of War we're. the cause of theft and rape and fraud. and destruction and the control of. resources it's all human beings like we. are the problem that we're trying to. solve and if we're trying to solve that.

problem by creating something that won't. have those. problems it just logically seems to me. that that thing is going to realize that. we're the. issue part of me shares that fear part. of me feels like a drowning man like you. know and maybe AI is the life preserver. and part of me thinks that it's just. going to be like the metaverse or the. Google Glasses or whatever it's just. going to be like a passing fad but oh I. don't think that I don't think that at. all I think it's inevitable I think we. are I've compared us to a caterpillar.

that we're a caterpillar that's building. a cocoon we don't even know why. caterpillars they don't know I'm going. to become a butterfly it's going to be. awesome no they don't we don't know why. we're we're doing all this why are we so. thirsty for Innovation why why are we so. attached to wanting the newest latest. greatest technology it almost seems like. that motivation is tied into the. creation of artificial intelligence that. if you looked at us I always say that if. you looked at us from above if you were. some other species that came and you.

were looking at human beings you would. say well what does this thing do like. what does this species do well the the. main thing it does if you you know you. look at all the there's all the. wonderful things the art the music all. the the wonderful things that it does. for itself food and culture and all. these interesting things but what is the. species over all do well it creates. things and it creates better things. constantly it's it's in a cycle of.

constant. Innovation and a lot of that Innovation. almost all of it is tied to technology. and artificial intelligence and so where. does that go well that goes to another. life form it creates a thing it creates. an artificially intelligent and. artificial is not a good word either. because I think it's digital. intelligence I don't think it's. artificial intelligence I think it's a a. Computing based intell Ence that's far. superior to the biological based. intelligence and so my hope for us.

because I am one of us my hope is that. we merge my fear is that it supersedes. us my my fear is that it surpasses Us in. every way and that it just gives us. something that plates us that it. controls us yeah gives us something well. instead of killing us off all you'd have. to do is stop us from breeding that's. not hard to do we're kind of doing that. to ourselves I mean population level in. terms of like viability they've dropped. substantially over the last few decades.

whether it's because of microplastics in. our food that have uh diminished our. reproductive cycles and if you look at. the um number of births like in in. developing countries like what what. happens how how many women are having. miscarriages how many women are. infertile the numbers keep going up and. up and up it seems like there's a. there's a current Trend because of what. we have done with our environment what. we have done with our food supply what. we have done with medicine and.

pharmaceutical drugs that's leading us. to be less and less viable and all you'd. have to do is step in and provide human. beings with something that gives them an. incentive to no longer breed especially. if it makes it very attractive to no. longer bre and keep them entertained. keep them entertained no longer breed. provide them with robot sex dolls that. are far superior to human beings you. know someone who really gets them this. person this really gets them or you just. have a biological woman who yells at you.

I mean it's it's you could clearly see. how if you were a super intelligent. species a super intelligent thing that. looked at us and say well what's the. best way other than mass destruction of. stopping these things from ruining the. world well just stop them from breeding. just make make these the last ones. M just severely limit the amount of. reproduction that takes place that would.

do it that drowning man looking for a. life preserver side of me kind of hopes. that artificial intelligence or digital. intelligence I like that by the way yeah. I think that's what it is um digital. intelligence you know that that that it. could. be that that again back to back to DMT I. felt that that that that sensient Force. God whatever you want to call it was. benign was basically on my side I'd like. to think that perhaps that technology is. being provided to us that there is a.

bigger plan that we're just not dialed. into or that maybe it's a way to try and. dial into that plan I just want us to. get to Star Trek man I just want to be I. I think I think that the the the goal I. think the intent for our species is to. get off the Rock and explore space in. peace together that would certainly be. wonderful yeah yeah um that would be. certainly preferable to destroying. ourselves. what do you think is happening with all. this UFO UAP stuff do you ever think. about that yeah I've looked into looked. into a dock on that like several times.

could never quite you know get Beyond. what's already publicly available um I. just think it's I the government's. covering something up for sure for sure. you know what do you do you think. they're covering up things that they've. invented I think that's probably the. most again I I would like to believe. that what they're covering what want to. believe in the same way that I want to. believe in the stoned ape Theory because. I think it's [ __ ] cool is I want to. believe that they're covering up contact. with you know species from outer space.

yeah other other intelligent life what I. suspect is really going on is that. they're covering up [ __ ] that they're. making that maybe has slipped the leash. you know or or that they or that for. whatever reason they're just trying to. like keep completely secret the stuff. that has maneuverability that can't be. explained yeah that's my thought too I. think both things though I think we're. probably being visited as well and I. think we might be being visited by. something that is us from the. future I think and might not even be us.

from the future but being what happens. when a species like us gets involved in. digital intelligence and create. something that transcends the biological. limitations and then you have these. things like to me one of one of the. things is very bizarre is the archetype. the archetype GR alien which is this. bigheaded thing with no muscle no. genitals and it's seems very humanoid in.

a way which doesn't necessarily make. sense if you you're you're dealing with. different environments and we think. about the massive variety of species. that exist on the planet that we're. aware of there's only one human there's. only one bipedal hominid that's it it's. us right why is this thing so much like. us this shitty design of walking around. on two people why can't it fly like why. why does you know why does it have these.

spindly bodies well human beings as. we're evolving one of the things that's. very clear is that we're becoming less. physical we we we're weaker and softer. than previous generations of humans that. we can observe you look at our. testosterone levels compared to men from. the 1950s were far lower on average and. if you go way back and you look at. Australia epicus and even Neanderthal I. mean the these are super powerful. physical specimens they they were.

different like Neanderthal was like this. 5'7 200 lb Behemoth of a creature that. was you know if you have a neanderthal. competing in the UFC it would smash. everybody there their bones are bigger. they're far more. powerful if you keep going in that. direction what do you get to you get to. this thing that has almost no muscle. this thing that like it just has need. the ability to move around and it's. probably communicating telepathically. it's probably using its telepathic.

energy to control those devices those. those ships that's one of the things. that Bob Lazar said when and again the. Bob Lazar story is who knows right I. love to believe the Bob Lazar story I. had him on the podcast I talked to him. for three hours I had dinner with him he. doesn't seem like a guy who's lying. right and one of the more bizarre. aspects of his story was how many of the. things that he talked about now we know. are true you know in terms of the the. technology in terms of what people have.

seen 3D printing there's all these. different things like this the ship that. he went into there's no seams he's like. it's all like as if it's made out of one. piece of something which is 3D printing. I mean that's what we're doing now and. that there's no instrumentation and that. somehow or another these things are. integrated somehow with mind or with. something with where it's allowing them. to Pilot these things without digital. instrumentation and buttons and switches.

they're using some other method to. control these things and that's what he. was supposedly brought in to try to back. engineer try to say what is this how. does it work and he talked about the. limitations of having science try to be. practiced in a vacuum and he was like. the metallurgist did not have contact. with propulsions experts the propulsion. experts did not have contact with other. groups that were studying these things. everybody was very secretive and. everybody was very isolated and he's.

like that's not how science works and. it's one of the reasons why they can. never figure out how these things work. that you you need to open this up to the. global scientific community and have. everybody examine these things and look. at it but the problem is the military. applications like if you have some thing. that can essentially use some new. element and use this new element that's. bombarded with radiation that allows you. to manipulate gravity and move at insane. speeds almost instantaneously to.

anywhere in the the universe you can't. give that to the Chinese you can't have. someone else get a hold of it before us. you can't have someone steal the these. techniques or the these these. Technologies so what do you do you if. you have this thing if this thing has. really been donated which is like what a. lot of these people that work on them. they call them donations if you really. have these things. what do you do how do you how do you. figure that out I don't know but if we. have been doing this since the 1980s. which is Lazar said it's been around far.

longer than that but when he was working. on them was the. 1980s you could imagine that by now we. might have figured out a way to get a. drone going that uses these Technologies. and that these drones can appear and. disappear they can fly and insan rates. of speed they can hover stationary at. 120 knot winds like they've observed. you can imagine that that's ours I I saw. the Phoenix Lights you did you really. you were there yeah I saw that different.

people saw different things what I saw. was something the size of like an. Imperial Star Destroyer from Star Wars. that was like at a relatively low. altitude moving over Phoenix my like. housemate was like this I mean this is. before we had phones right before we had. cameras this is like had a flip phone of. anything and he was like dude you got to. get out here and I like came out the. front yard of our house Tempe and we. just watched this thing move across the. sky it was like what the [ __ ] man like I. mean I believe I believe in.

reincarnation because I came back from. DMT thinking that I had a firsthand. experience I believe that there was. something inexplicable in the sky over. Phenix that night because I [ __ ] saw. it okay and it was massive and it was. quiet and then it was just gone so what. did it look like it looked like a. massive Craft um um not shaped like an. Imperial Star Destroyer but of that. scale that was more sort of like tubular.

shaped uh and you could see yeah more. like yeah more like yeah like a tube um. and you but you could see variations in. it it wasn't like totally smooth you. know and you could see by the way that. it was like blocking out the the stars. that you could see that there were like. apparatus on it of some kind and and I. always thought that it was just it was a. military it was a military aircraft. where they had they thought they had a. cloaking device see now that's what. other people saw was was these smaller. things on the same night that were. explained away as being some sort of.

military flares or weather balloons or. some [ __ ] that's that's not what I saw. uh on the same night but I'm not the. only one that saw this larger scale. craft so I always thought like man that. could be a military ship they thought. they had some sort of cloaking device. that [ __ ] up it fritzed out because. that's kind of what it looked like I. could see it and then I couldn't you. know so so it looked like a tube and did. it and how big were were you talking. about like several football fields yes.

yes yeah I me how many football fields I. would say like the size of a battleship. okay huge not an aircraft carrier but. the size of a battleship like I would. say three what's bigger aircraft carrier. battleship Battleship I think is bigger. it's a destroyer whatever's smaller than. an aircraft carrier whatever the ship. whatever the ship is that that's smaller. than aircraft carrier so not as big as. an aircraft Carri not as big as an. aircraft carer what is a battleship like. either Battleship or Destroyer whatever. that next one is I would say three. football fields at least it was huge you.

could not miss it and how high do you. think it was above. you no more than thousand feet. whoa yeah no was low altitude it was. like right over right over 10p I'm not. the only one that I'm not the only one. that saw no many many people saw it yeah. yeah yeah I actually like went on the. record with the newspaper I worked for. you know right away cuz they were like. me dismissing those smaller lights that. we just saw as like you know whatever. whatever the explanation was yeah and I. was like H there was something else you. know in the sky that night too so I I I.

love to gamble if I had to make a bet I. would still say it's human military. technology that fritzed out you wow many. people said they saw something that. looked like a. triangle no this was not a triangle yeah. so maybe there was more than one of. these things well toally. possible yeah you remember when the. governor did that press conference and. came out with a guy in an alien suit and.

made a mock the whole thing which is. what their tactic has been you know but. then that same Governor came back after. he left office and talked about it yeah. and said that he saw something and and. admitted it yeah what was the governor's. name f Simington F Simington see if you. could find a audio of a video of f. Simington saying what he actually saw on. witnessing the pH Phoenix Lights I think. later he talked about it well unlike. five Simonson I was stoned but I still.

know what I saw. okay I still know what I saw and you. what's interesting is he's when he's. trying to describe the shape and he puts. it at a bigger size than I than I have. it in my memory I I I do remember. talking with my you know friend like it. was hard to describe what we just saw. it's like we didn't have a reference. it's it's just like we're we're trying. to let me see if articulate this we're. trying to find reference points right. for something that really doesn't have. one right I guess like you kind of. estimate the size but it just it it had.

it was it was unlike anything I'd ever. seen before have you ever heard uh. people describe what the Native. Americans must have seen when those. boats started showing up no that they. had never seen anything that large that. it probably blew them away you know you. see the Pinta and the Santa Maria and. these massive boats from Europe that you. know they were like what the [ __ ] is. that well let's hope that let's hope. that the that the beings aboard the.

craft is that's what they are have. better intentions than the people aboard. those boats yeah right yeah yeah that's. crazy that you actually saw it yeah wow. and you said it just disappeared yes it. wasn't like whoop or anything there was. no noise it was just it was there and. there were some lights like he said I. remember there was there was some lights. that were not stars that were part of. this craft could you describe what those. lights looked like no they were they. were not colored they were you know.

white or off-white um because I remember. thinking like are those Stars I was I. was trying to like actually see what is. the shape and what is Stars that's how I. was gauging how big it was and I was. like no those are attached to this thing. and then it was just I just couldn't see. anymore it was like you like it was it. was like the Northern Lights so I'm from. Alaska right so it's like the Northern. Lights they're there and then they're. not there there's just like this ghost. thing and then then then they're gone. and it was like that there's it was. there it was moving at a slow speed you. know from my left to right and then it.

was just I couldn't see it anymore and. but it was like 20 seconds at least it. wasn't like a glimpse of this thing it. was yeah and how many. lights half a dozen yeah somewhere. around there yeah wow yeah I know people. said that they that they that they saw. triangle so then for a while they were. saying that's why he was probably. talking about the you know the B2 bomber. the stealth bomber cuz they're kind of. triangular um it was way bigger than one. of those and it was not it was it was. not that shape at all you know I.

struggle to come up with what shape it. was because it's a shape that I haven't. really seen before yeah so wow and what. was your initial thought that that's an. alien spacecraft no my initial thought. was not an alien spacecraft it was. basically initial thought was just like. what the [ __ ] is that and then once I. talked about it it's that same sort of. like want to believe actually believe. thing we talked about several times. times today I want to believe it was an. alien spacecraft I believe it was. probably you know US military technology. going to Ry really ex yeah do you think.

they had the capability to do that in. the 1990s CU what was when was the. Phoenix Lights that it was 19 it was mid. mid. 1990s I think it was 96 might have been. 97 not sure um as more time has gone on. though you were asking me what I thought. in the moment yeah as more time has gone. on I've I've like the needles moved. towards maybe that was was actually an. extraterrestrial craft yeah because. there so much has come out like. especially in the last 5 years as you. know as you've talked about here you. know yeah so it's just so strange that.

it all occurred in this one area in this. one night. right that has to be a real Paradigm. shifting moment for you wasn't well yeah. well I think I I was I I got so caught. up in the like the government's trying. to cover up its own [ __ ] you know like. they're putting up and then there was. the like there was the smaller lights. thing and the weather balloon you know. but I did I went on the record with the. Phoenix New Times I got there's a guy.

named T Tony Ortega there that wrote a. piece about it right away and I went on. the record because I was like maybe one. of the last you know I wasn't that UFO. enthusist type right like in the. community I was a fairly well-known. writer in the greater Phoenix Metro at. that time and not someone that would be. normally associated with like being a. quote unquote UFO crazy so I went on the. record with the article he was writing. it like yes I saw this no [ __ ] way it. was a weather balloon or a flare or. whatever they're saying it was massive.

so. man what I would give to see something. like that but you know to your point. about like look at how people about the. technology maybe it's being kept quiet. because of the military applications. like look at how people freaked out when. that leaked about this new Russian space. weapon right a couple weeks back or. three weeks back whatever uh it's like. an ability to disrupt like satellite. Communications in space like Russia. somehow it leaked maybe deliberately out. of Russia that they've got this Tech far. more advanced technology than we thought.

they had to a weapon that would be in. space that could disrupt like. Communications and satellites and really. [ __ ] us up okay and uh like it was it. was it leaked and then there was this. one Congressman that like went public. with it was like there we have a real. problem right this is like three it. while I was in Ukraine so it was maybe. three weeks ago but imagine if it was. something like on the scale of like a. ship the the weaponized ship that could. be cloaked like that or some of the. technology or if we did have as you said.

this donated technology that's from an. extraterrestrial intelligence that the. US has been figuring out applications. for you'd have to keep that on loock. because what if that leaked right now. what do you think Putin would do you. know who the [ __ ] knows what he would do. if all of a sudden it leaked that we had. these you know military capabilities. that are far beyond what he thinks we. have that's that's my thought about. these these things that they keep seeing. because they always see them in areas. where they do military tests right the.

Tic Tac was off the coast of San Diego. which is where all the military bases. are and the the things that Ryan long. had seen were all off the co the east. coast in restricted airspace right in. space where they run you know fighter. jet jet training and and he said when. they upgraded their technology in 2014. they upgraded their sensors and he said. that's when we started seeing these. things constantly all the time and then. they were getting visuals they were. seeing visual versions of these things.

and that it was uh a square with it was. a sphere in a square or a square in a. sphere do you remember square and sphere. square and a sphere so there's like this. circular sphere and this black square. that exists in this thing and it's. hovering and it's hovering in in very. high speed winds and it just stay. stationary motionless and that these. things are able to move with just. bizarre rates of speed with no. indication of a traditional propulsion.

system yeah no heat signature that shows. that you know you know rocket propulsion. nothing nothing that we can explain and. if they had a drone that could do that. that's where they would test those. things and what better way to test. whether or not people could see them. than to run them out there when people. are using new jets with new capabilities. like can you see them okay they see them. and the fact that you know the Tic Tac.

when uh Commander David fraver uh. brought this information and reported it. and they showed the videos to these. Admirals and they they were non plused. they were like mhm okay they just left. the room right like like do they [ __ ]. know how are they not are they just like. Stone Cold dudes who can just keep it. together and the face of some alien. technology they know that we were being. visited or is this and the other thing. is that when he when fraver communicated.

this stuff these guys who are running. these these sensors they were running. the detection systems were saying we're. seeing these things all the time every. couple weeks we're seeing them all all. over the place well what the [ __ ] is. that and this is also 2004 did they have. the ability of 2004 or something to go. from above 50,000 ft above SE level to. 50 ft in less than a second what is that. like what the [ __ ] is that and people. try.

to you know argue it away or explain it. away by saying oh it's a failure of the. detection systems and the the glitch and. the yeah but visuals they have more than. one fighter jet has seen it they have. video of this thing moving at a speed. that would turn human beings into jelly. like if there's a biological entity. inside that thing and experiences that. gForce you're talking about some [ __ ]. insane gForce like, 1300 times what a. human being can tolerate and just gone.

silent no visual means of propulsion no. no windows no what is that is that a. drone what is that and the witnesses. have been reliable too like I've yeah. I've often suspected that like in the. last 20 years especially in the last. five it feels like the witnesses the. guys coming forward saying look I know. what I saw more the ones that are. associated with the government even. commercial airline pilots that be on FAA. but especially military Pilots you know. they're being allowed to speak that it.

feels like the waters are being tested. by the government for some reason like. we're going to let this out a little bit. we're going to let the people that. actually people may actually believe. right like attest to what they they saw. and see how the public reacts that's why. things going on well that would be what. I would do if I was running the. government if I wanted to hide the fact. that we have these things I would say. that these are off-world crafts. that's what I would say I would say look. these things are behaving in a way that. we can't explain well I guess we're. being. visited and then go right back to.

whatever Black Ops thing that you guys. are doing some Ron project I mean I. don't know what it. is but um I go back and forth all the. time whether I think it's from another. planet another galaxy another dimension. or whether I not I think it's us or many. people think that they've always been. here you know when you talked about the. vas in the vas they talk about these. things they talk about that I mean it's. in the Baba it's in there's it's in the.

ancient Hindu text they talk about these. these vimanas these crafts that whatever. these beings. operate so in that case are we just. getting better at detecting them or are. they showing themselves more often for. some reason well in unique circumstances. if someone sees something like this like. you so you see this in 1990 whatever it. is in Phoenix if you lived 5,000 years. ago and you see this like what does that. what does that sound like what does that. sound like to everybody sounds like.

you're out of your [ __ ] mind and a. small handful of people say it they they. tell stories people write it down just. goes away unique experiences are very. difficult to classify you know if you. have an experience with a ghost if a. ghost shows up in this room and we all. see it and it doesn't show up on camera. and we swear we saw an apparition of. [ __ ] Forest Gump standing there. you're like what the [ __ ] is that well. you're just left with a story you know. if you can't measure it you can't write. it down you can't even a video of it.

like what are you seeing you seeing. grainy footage of some thing you know. you see I'm sure you've seen these. supposedly leaked images that fighter. pilots have taken with cell phones from. their aircrafts like what what are they. saying what is that thing what is that. weird blurry looking metallic looking. thing is that a myar balloon that. they're mistaking for a spacecraft that. doesn't seem likely seems like they're a. lot [ __ ] smarter than that they're. not gonna think a a child's birthday.

balloon that's floating around at 20,000. ft is an aircraft they they're probably. going to realize it's a balloon they. probably seen balloons you know yeah I. don't know in those videos too it's the. commentary that kind of sells it like. look at that thing move or what it like. the go fast video like look at it Go. Jesus Christ and these guys are trained. pilots they're used to seeing things and. they're seeing something that rotates. this is the other thing about the craft. that coincides with what Bob Lazar said. it's moving like this and it turns.

sideways and Lazar said that's what it. did that it would direct its generator. whatever that gravity generator is it. would direct that towards the way that. it wanted to go so it would literally. turn sideways to move forward I mean. Kenneth Arnold was talking about these. things in the 1950s right so for sure in. the 1950s we didn't have the cap cap. ability to make something like that. something with no visible means of. repulsion that's shaped like a saucer. that flies silently through the air and. you know moves at a speed and has.

capabilities in terms of maneuverability. that far exceeds a jet that we had back. then what does that mean what is that I. mean they they were seeing these things. when they had we had propeller planes. you know like what is that I don't know. but part of me feels stupid for even. talking about it like you know what I. mean it's like why you wasting all your. energy you have so many things you have. to do it's fascinating it is fascinating. but it's also it makes you feel like a. fool and I think that's part of the. strategy of all this stuff well.

ridiculing people that have talked about. UFOs has been part of the government. strategy from the jump right for sure. that's Project Blue Book that's been doc. right so but the thing on the military. insulations of course the two theories. are one is that there's some sort of. extr terrestrial intelligence that's. drawn to our military activity but what. seems like the more rational explanation. is as you said that that's where they. test this [ __ ] sure or you know if I was. an intelligent species that's willing to. donate these crafts like they they claim.

that they kind of let these things land. or crash and then they'll do it in a. very strategic way where they know that. the military will be able to cordon off. the area and you know isolate and you. know stop people from talking about it. and the idea that people in the military. aren't able to keep secrets well that's. nonsense they're really good at keeping. secrets you know they're they can keep. secrets especially highlevel people look. if I had access like if uh if not Joe. Biden he's he's too far gone but if.

Obama called me in like during his his. administration you want to see some [ __ ]. I'd be like I want to see some [ __ ] and. he said don't tell anybody like I won't. tell anybody maybe I'd tell my wife. maybe I'd tell one of my friends but I. wouldn't [ __ ] go public and tell. everybody if they're willing to show me. this [ __ ] like that look no one's going. to believe me anyway right and so I'm. like what good does it do if I make. myself look like a [ __ ] a b i now I. can't have access to it anymore cuz I.

told them CU I told people about it. because now they can't trust me I'd shut. the [ __ ] up especially if I was in the. military I would shut the [ __ ] up show. me you know you ever heard the story. this a it's a widely disputed story but. that Jackie gleon and Nixon were. drinking one day and Nixon was like you. want to see some [ __ ] and Nixon took. Jackie GLE. uh to one of the Air Force bases and. showed him this. UFO um and Jackie gleon was a UFO ftic I.

don't know if you know this but Jackie. gleon actually had a home built in. Upstate New York that looked like a UFO. and he had this home built after the. supposed experience no [ __ ] yeah show. show the the images of the the home this. is the home that Jackie gleon had. built I mean what the [ __ ] look at the. outside it though not not that one that. one's kind of just a cool circular one. but that that image like what what the. [ __ ] are you doing Jackie why you make.

it a UFO house in Upstate New York it. seems a little odd take that image like. look at that I mean come on man what the. [ __ ] is that it looks kind of like a. sci-fi movie prop though you know it. looks like like a cliche of a UFO right. but that's apparently this is the. folklore yeah is that that's what he saw. and so he's like I want to build a. [ __ ] house look like that you know. it's fun it's fun but it also has this. feeling of futility just like.

futile thing like why are we even. talking about it it's nonsense it's. fascinating but it just seems like it's. almost seems like you're never going to. know you know I think we talk about it. cuz it gives us hope frankly yeah we. want to believe it's true well we. certainly want to believe the stories. that they hover over military bases and. shut down nuclear weapons and you know. my my comedy club is called uh the. comedy Mothership and and you walk into.

the comedy club there's a a. gigantic um artificial UFO that we had. built so when you walk into it like as. you walk in the front door there's this. big construction of a UFO that has a. beam that comes down and we use it as a. projector to show who's coming soon on. the on the big screen but I named the. the rooms Batman and little boy because. those are the bombs that we dropped and. right after we dropped those bombs. that's when all the UFO activity. happened mhm that's like there's a giant.

uptick in UFO activity after. 1945 and in the UFO folklore it's like. they realized that we have the ability. to drop nukes and so then they started. visiting and then they started shutting. down nuclear weapons at bases and making. their presence known to at these. military bases say hey keep it together. [ __ ] like we're watching we don't. want you to Nuke this whole planet and. ruin our little program and then our. program is an accelerated engineering.

program that we've accelerated the. evolution of human beings through some. sort of intervention and that this is. why we're so different this is it's not. the stoned ape Theory it's the humans. are engineered by some Superior life. form to try to accelerate our our. Evolution and bring us to this place and. that they've helped us along the way but. we're autonomous and we're allowed to do. what we want to do and so we do. disgusting crazy [ __ ] like Drop nuclear. bombs from propeller planes by the way.

right propeller planes on cities and. that once they did that they're like. okay slow the [ __ ] down we're. here now whether they've always been. here like in you know the the viic texts. or I mean even in the Bible in ezekiel's. description of the wheel within a wheel. and have you read that description pull. up ezekiel's description of what he saw. this is one of the favorite descriptions.

from the Bible from the Old Testament. about UFOs that people love to to bring. up because Ezekiel has this thing that. he describes and it's it's the most. bizarre. depiction I looked I saw an immense dust. storm come from the north and an immense. cloud with lightning flashing from it a. huge ball of fire glowing like bronze. within the fire were what looked like. four creatures vibrant with life each.

had the form of a human being but each. also had four faces and four wings their. legs were as sturdy and straight As. columns but their feet were hooved like. those of a calf and sparkled with the. fire like burnished bronze on all four. sides under their wings they had human. hands all four had faces and wings and. the wings touching one another they. turned neither one way nor the other. they went straight forward their faces. looked like this in front of a human. face on the right side the face of a. lion on the left the face of an ox and.

in the back the face of an eagle so much. for the faces the wings were spread out. with the tips of one pair touching the. creature on either side the other pair. of wings covered its body each creature. went straight ahead wherever the spirit. went they went they didn't turn as they. want the four creatures looked like. blazing fire or fire y torches tongues. of fire shot back and forth between the. creatures and out of the fire bolts of. lightning the creatures flashed back and. forth like strikes of lightning as I.

watched the four creatures I saw. something that looked like a wheel on. the ground beside each of the four-faced. creatures this is what the wheels looked. like they were identical Wheels. sparkling like diamonds in the sun they. looked like they were Wheels within. Wheels like a gyroscope they went in any. of the four Direction They faced but. straight not veering off the rims were. immense circled with eyes when the. living creatures went the wheels went. when the living creatures lifted off the. wheels lifted off wherever the spirit.

went they went the wheels sticking right. with them for the spirit of the living. creature creatures was in the wheels. when the creatures went the wheels went. when the creatures stopped the Wheels. stopped when the creatures lifted off. the wheels lifted off because the spirit. of the living creatures was in the. wheels over the heads of the living. creatures was something like a dome. shimmering like the light Like A Sky. Full of cut glass vaulted over their. heads under the dome one set of wings.

was extended towards the other with. another set of wings covering their. bodies when they moved I heard their. wings it was like the Roar of a great. waterfall like the voice of the strong. God like the noise of a battlefield when. they stopped they folded their wings and. then as they stood with folded Ling. Wings there was a voice above the Dome. over their heads above the Dome there. was something that looked like a throne. sky blue like a sapphire with a. humanlike figure towering above the. throne from what I could see from the.

waist up he looked like burnished bronze. and from the waist down like a blazing. fire brightness everywhere the way a. Rainbow Springs out of a sky on a rainy. day that's what it was like it turned. out to be the glory of. God like what the [ __ ]. man I mean to anybody that's done DM or. iasa really tripped on psychedelics. though you read that and it feels sort. of familiar yeah yeah right yeah yeah. yeah glory of God yeah the glory of God.

these visions of these yeah beings and. the the fact that these things are like. constantly changing their appearance. yeah like that's the thing about the DMT. experience is like it's not a stationary. static experience it's like constantly. changing and moving in front of you and. to see something like that in the sky. and the fact that it's so notth worthy. that they wrote it down in the [ __ ]. Bible. Bible maybe he found some of those. mushrooms you know in the CIT well you. know that's there was a um a university.

in Israel I think it's a University of. Jerusalem that theorized that the Moses. experience of The Burning Bush was a DMT. experience and that what what this is. like when you say Moses saw the burning. bush well what what kind of bush would. burn that would give you a psychedelic. experience well the occas tree the. acacia tree which is very common to that. area is Rich with DMT and how do you how. do you psycho actively acquire DMT you.

smoke it MH so you're smoking this tree. this Burning Bush and you're seeing God. and God has brought you Ten Commandments. of how to live life which sounds like a. lot of what you experience in the DMT. experience when when you have that and. you have these contact with the entities. they kind of give you guidelines of how. to live yeah it felt to me like a. massive amount of information being. downloaded but that but that it was. guiding in nature yeah but very. difficult to to hold on to like you're.

like what is it so like it's probably. something you'd want to write down yeah. yeah like the Ten Commandments yeah yeah. well again back to the Christians and. prup pod that was his thing it was like. you you can't hold on to it with. psychedelics alone and you don't need. psychedelics to get a hold of it in the. first place was what he was preaching. and he probably recognized that. the thing of the the problem with taking. psychedelics is that it's so accessible. you just take it I mean it's the. beautiful thing about it but all you. also could say without that could be a.

problem because then a bunch of people. with no discipline would just start. popping these things and having these. experiences and having no sort of. framework no moral framework no ethical. framework no understanding of what what. are you experiencing and what to do with. this stuff no discipline right but if. you acquire it biologically if you. acquire endogenously through discipline. then you you are on a path and through. that path you can achieve this thing and. you realize this is a very difficult.

thing to achieve and that you have to. stay on this path in order to get this. Enlightenment I could see how someone. would say no listen that's not the way. this is the way that you can do it with. the own with your own mind you don't. need these things you know Terence. McKenna's thought on that though very. funny thought he said It reminds me of. uh an ancient story of um uh this monk. had uh acquired a city of levitation and. practiced this and it said to the Buddha.

when the Buddha came to town you know. I've spent 20 years uh acquiring this. city of levitation and I can I could. walk across the water and the Buddha. said yeah but the fair's only a. nickel so that was McKenna's take on it. it's like why would you do all that. stuff when you could just take the. mushrooms but McKenna was you know. McKenna was a brilliant man he wasn't. some stoned hippie in the middle of. Upstate New York just tripping balls on.

mushrooms I think it has some you know. it's helpful to have some sort of like. processing after the experience right. and not just keep like repeating it. trying to like get back to that space. yeah also McKenna was you know he was a. proponent of taking psychedelic drugs so. he probably would want people to think. that his way is the way you know he's. only human right yeah I don't know man. but it's all look just the fact that the. the Psychedelic experience is a real.

thing and when you do take that and you. do have those experiences and you. realize that it's a real thing and like. how did I not know about this how is the. most profound thing that's ever happened. to me something that is a schedule one. drug that's illegal for whatever reason. that no one's explained to me. accurately where no one's ever explained. it in a way that makes sense why is a. thing that doesn't kill anybody that. exists in the human mind that was the. other thing that McKenna said about DMT. it's illegal but everybody's holding.

right because everybody has it you know. if you want to test people for DMT Well. everybody's guilty everybody the most. staunch conservative anti-drug person is. right now has DMT in their body all of. them do everybody does it's literally. like testing people for blood yeah you. have blood of course you're alive yeah. you have DMT you're alive yeah but it's. illegal what it doesn't make any sense. it sounds so insane and also the fact. that it's naturally occurring not.

naturally just naturally occurring in. the human mind but naturally occurring. in nature and that there seems to be. some sort of a mitigation strategy by. the human body in order to keep you from. tripping balls by consuming all the. different plants that have DMT in it and. that's monoamine oxidase so mono oxidase. breaks it down in the gut so if you. consume like grasses like FIS grass it's. very rich in DMT if a human being. consumed that you're not going to trip.

because the monoamine oxidase in the gut. breaks it down so the strategy that they. came up with with iasa was to combine. these psychedelic plants these plants. that contain dimethyl tryptamine with. other plants that contain harine which. is a monoamine oxidase inhibitor and. that the two of these together will. allow an orally active version of. dimethyl tryptamine which is what it. is you know with me I really felt like. once was enough I know you have a.

different. approach but I may everybody's different. I mean once is enough because it's so. [ __ ] scary you don't want to do it. again I get it but every time I've ever. been troubled and I've done it I feel. way better I'm like DMT specifically. yeah yeah I'm talking about you know DMT. specifically yeah every time I've ever. done it I'm like oh the god the things I. concentrate on are so stupid yeah the. things that worry me are so foolish I. find that with MDMA I find MDMA to be. very sort of useful as a reset sure.

button yeah yeah yeah it also makes you. realize like how insecure you are and. how insecure most people are with. interactions with each other and when. those barriers are down how Wild the. experience is of just not having any. fear of human interaction yeah that's. something I only did once and the the. problem that I had with it was after it. was over I felt so drained but I didn't. have any strategy for like taking um you. know some sort of a serotonin booster.

like uh 5htp which is what people take. that are like really know what they're. doing with that stuff they take 5 HTTP. to boost up their serotonin while. they're doing it so that after it's over. they're not just crashed MH cuz the next. day I was useless I remember I was in a. coffee shop the next day and I was. trying to read a magazine mhm and I. couldn't read I couldn't concentrate I I. literally couldn't read this magazine I. was like oh my God I'm so dumb my brain. feels like a I felt the way I described. it was like I had a dry sponge for a.

brain and normally it's wet and filled. with now it's just like this this Dopey. dry sponge and was it worth it maybe but. I had stuff to do that day right I had a. show that night and this was after doing. what MDMA yeah you an eard righted to. call it 90s you're an eard. yeah that's what the experience you do. need to do the serotonin booster that. that is the key move but I just think. it's it's bordering you know it's not. bordering on criminal it is [ __ ]. criminal that the government has kept.

MDMA therapy from like especially guys. coming back from these [ __ ] wars in. the Middle East you know they're all. [ __ ] up with PTSD because I'm as. somebody who has PTSD not from combat. but from childhood trauma MDMA is just. it's just like a godsend literally from. the gods a godsend and that it's that. that that [ __ ] is been kept from I mean. in maps that organization Maps has been. doing fantastic research with it and it. seems like that you know it's it's it's. on the path to legalization now finally. you know yeah but there are so many guys.

that needed that so badly and including. the people that are making it illegal. unfortunately that's the problem it is. it is it's it's an experience that's. being kept from us by people that. haven't done it right right yeah that. was a there was another quote that was. attributed to McKenna McKenna tried to. attribute it to somebody else but they. said he didn't didn't say it but it was. that LSD is something that. causes uh severe psychotic experiences. and people who haven't taken.

it nice I might have paraphrased that I. think it did but it's something along. those lines that and you know we know. for a fact that all that stuff was made. illegal during the sweeping psychedelics. Act of 1970 that was designed to subvert. the war movement and to subvert the. Civil Right movement and to go after the. Black Panthers and all these different. people that were disrupting the the. government's control over society and. that the best way to do that is to make.

all drugs illegal and then go after. those people and just throw water on the. whole party and it worked it worked for. decades and it like severely impacted. art specifically music if you look at. the music from the 60s all the way up to. 1970 and then there's this confusion. period of 1970 and then you look at the. music of the0 like what the [ __ ]. happened everybody what happened how do. you go how do you go from Hendrick yeah. you know to [ __ ] whatever you know I. don't want to make fun of any 80s bands.

but hair bands you know like what. happened there what the [ __ ] happened. how did it get so. dumb everybody stopped tripping and. started doing coke yeah exactly that's. exactly what happened yeah and they just. lost the plot for a little while it. seems like the plot's come back and I. think the plot has come back and I think. you could kind of credit Lorenzo from. the Psychedelic Salon with the. distribution of all those old recordings. of Alan Watts and McKenna and all those.

different psychedelic BS that were. talking about these things that got. people more Curious and interested in. them and then you know people realizing. that we needed to do something for these. soldiers that are coming back with PTSD. and Sil cybin ceremonies and iasa and. MDMA which is being used by maps maps is. done aning amazing job they they really. have and they they've done it the right. way where they're you know really. promoting uh legalization and in a very. structured way yeah it just feels like.

it's taken so long but that's like what. the government that's the only way that. the government was going to accept yeah. there like multiple research trials and. just you know and even then I mean it. really takes people leaving office and. dying off it takes the old people going. away the corrupt politicians that are in. charge of deciding what is and is not. legal they have to vanish and they. slowly get phased out generation after. generation and then the new people. coming into play some of them have.

military experience some of them know. people that have been really helped by. MDMA therapy or IAS or many the ibigan. people that have like severe addictions. to Pills and all sorts of different. opiates ibigan is like one of the. greatest things that's ever been. discovered to help heal people from. these problems yeah. yeah we're in a so many weird competing. factors are all happening all together. and they're all in this wild chaos that.

is the age of information the age of. information and Technology that's. allowing people to have access to these. things but also realize how crazy the. world we live in is and then you know. you have Tik Tok where people are you. know just being distracted all day long. and being confused that's it's Terri. terrifying it's crack I know I feel more. hopeful now Joe once we started talking. about psychedelics again than I was when. we were talking about. war well psychedelics might be the only. thing that prevents War it might be the.

only thing that helps people I mean if. you can get large scale use of. psychedelics sanctioned and not just in. America but worldwide I think it will. have a tremendous impact on the way. people view this experience because this. is a small. tiny finite experience that we're going. through it seems like it takes forever. but it I mean you're 53 I'm 56 it's like. Jesus man we're we're more than halfway. to the finish line and it's like it just. happened it's like a blip and you're.

still we're all everyone me included. we're all just trying to figure it out. as we go along and hopefully you're. better than you were yesterday at it. yeah and sometimes you're not sometimes. you fall down sometimes you get back up. and you climb a little higher this time. and now you're now you're better than. you were a year ago but boy it's [ __ ]. confusing you know I went to I went to. college and University of California. Santa Cruz it's no secret that Santa. Cruz for a long time has been a center. for psychedelics and there's a guy there. who even I think even if I could. remember his name I'm not going to drop. it but he he got busted for making acid.

and I think it was around 911 he had got. this massive underground LSD lab like. out in the middle of the country and it. it was a story that never really got. picked up because everyone was. distracted by that was the missile silo. guy yeah I think so and and and his. whole thing was like he was trying to. make what do you call a planetary dose. that was his thing I have to make enough. acid for everyone on Earth to take acid. it's the only thing that's going to save. Humanity wow and I kind of get it yeah. at least I get the thinking I get the.

thinking too especially if you're really. tripping yeah I know yeah just get. everybody [ __ ] up yeah there is people. that had this theory that if you could. just dose the water supply in major. cities that people would be forced to. trip but you know like what dose I don't. think that's probably a good idea no. it's a terrible idea no the the the. correct idea is. legalization and um centers that are set. up by ethical experts who really have.

experience in these things that can. provide both counseling and medical. services and allow people to do the. correct dose safely under supervision. and then counseling that gives them some. sort of a framework as to what to do. with this what what has happened what. this means and and how you can apply. this to your life and if we could figure. out how to do that in a structured way. we probably could help an enormous. amount of people absolutely the.

integration after the trip right yeah. and that's taking it back to Christian. is right because that's the series I. have out but but legitimately there's a. legitimate comment which is that that's. what prup pod and that's what Krishna. Consciousness in in a sense was offering. was integration of the Psychedelic. experience here's a framework for. integrating everything you've been. experiencing on acid and masculine right. you know whatever whatever else the. hippie kids were into yeah and they they. were TR I mean I think proa pod and the. people that were legit were really.

trying to do that and they were really. trying to spread this message and if you. think. about what they were able to do during. the 60s you know with the help of George. Harrison I mean they they opened up a. lot of people's minds to these ideas and. probably changed a lot of lives and the. directions of a lot of people's lives. yeah for the better for the better yeah. yeah listen man um I really appreciate. your work you know Sasquatch is. incredible and this chrishna documentar. is incredible too you're really awesome.

thanks brother appreciate appreciate you. and uh if you do this Ukraine thing or. if you ever do a UFO thing whatever you. do come back love to have you again. thank you very much oh so tell everybody. it's available it's on peacock. chrish on peacock it's awesome thank you. brother appreciate it bye everybody. [Music]. [Applause]. [Music].