Joe Rogan Experience #2065 - David Grusch

Joe Rogan podcast check it out The Joe. Rogan Experience Train by day Joe Rogan. podcast by night all. day what's up how are you man hey good. good thanks for coming here appreciate. it yeah yeah no it's it's a pleasure. you've been on a whirlwind sort of. tour um I guess we should start from the. beginning yeah so first of all lay out. to people what your job was with the.

military and how this all started for. you yeah yeah so I was a Intel officer. in the Air Force for 14 years seven. active seven Reserve uh then I kind of. had like a parallel tract in the. civilian Intel world when I became a. reservist um uh and ultimately I got. brought back in in Civil Service in a. government way at the national GE. spatial intelligence agency couple years. ago um at a senior level uh so I was a. major in the Air Force and a gs15 at NGA.

which is like a full bird colonel. equivalent civilian employee uh you know. I'm very humbled that I was able to kind. of get that kind of job but uh my career. mostly I didn't even really think about. this topic UFOs were not on my radar I. wasn't really a Believer I was agnostic. about it uh most of my career I did a. lot of uh you know behind the door. special access program uh technical type.

activities I was kind of a space. intelligence expert a cyber Intel. expert. and like I said this was not on my radar. at all you know like I would joke with. my buddies because I used to handle um. the presidential Daily Brief for the. national reconnaissance office director. in my my military capacity as a. reservist and I was well clear to. hundreds and hundreds of compartment at. programs and you know the joke was like. when are we going to get the readon for. the crazy [ __ ] and that never happened.

uh and I do remember the the day that I. really can remember that I was like huh. what's with this UFO stuff I was uh. briefing a senior. person uh at the CIA into a couple. hundred special access programs uh so I. was at the headquarters at the agency. and you know after the indoctrination I. was giving to the senior. person this person um who worked with. Lou alzando uh previously was like yeah. have Dave have you ever heard of this.

guy Lou alzando he's running some UFO. program at the Pentagon um we all think. he's crazy and I'm like I I don't know. who this guy Lou Alando is and I don't. know of any kind of UFO program so that. sounds nuts to me but lo and behold and. that was like early. 2017 and lo and beholds in December 2017. that New York Times article came up with. the uh that named the a tip program and. the assap program so Advan Aerospace. space weapon systems application program.

and the Vance AOS space threat. identification program being the other. acronym and I was like holy [ __ ] wait. that's that guy Lou alzando that I heard. about ah you know what I think I have. heard of ASAP when I was a lieutenant I. used to read these. reports from the defense Intelligence. Agency on black holes and stuff and I. was like oh that's like stupid why is. the. diaa um looking into black holes time. warps it just didn't make any sense to. me back in like' 0809 when I was a.

lieutenant and all of a sudden I'm like. well maybe there's something to this UFO. thing I'm not saying I was like a. Believer either way on the subject but. this is this was a topic of concern. apparently for the. Pentagon and in. 2018 I started doing kind of my what I. call my open source literature review. like let me spin myself up on this topic. watching Chris melon Louis Lando Leslie. Keane all these people talk about the. subject and then you know just trying to.

understand so what is this with UFOs has. this been going on for a while the. answer is yes like Foo Fighters. sightings of weird stuff and Antiquity. Etc which you know we can get into later. but uh and so early 2019 comes along and. my boss at the national reconnaissance. office in kind of my Air Force Major. capacity forwarded me an email from the. what became a uh stood up in like I. guess it was 2018 which was the. unidentified well was aerial now an.

anomalous phom task force UAP task force. so the UAP task force director sent my. boss an email saying hey we're looking. for a rep to the task force and as like. any good officer I was like well I'll. put it on my performance report hey I. was on a task force and you know that. would look good and I had being well. cleared and also a bachelor's degree in. physics uh Masters in intelligence. analysis I'm like you know what I'll. figure out what the [ __ ] is it's either. going to be weather [ __ ] maybe it's an. aviser program maybe it's like uh a US.

program people are misidentifying on. rare. occasions so [ __ ] it I'll I'll go see. where the data takes me and you know. early 2019 or so I joined the UAP task. force um and. then I started you know interviewing. Pilots um uh flag officers you know. General officer equivalent type Navy. folks and you know they were seeing some. really crazy [ __ ].

and like a you know event that I talked. about previously publicly in a YouTube. video on uh the yes Theory Channel you. know I there was this one 30-year senior. Navy officer that you know he was going. to work sober no predisposition for. Fantasy all that kind of stuff because I. interviewed the individual for a couple. hours and he saw. this you know crazy triangle hover over. his car going to work at a certain Naval. facility and it like blew his mind he. was serious.

um the paint on his car turned milky. white after the incident so that's to me. that sounds like ionizing radiation so. like ultraviolet just like how your your. headlights get all foggy over time if. you park your car out in the sun same. phenomenon just happened you know within. 24-hour period and I'm like whoa if this. is true and the the oral testimony and. you know crazy radar data that I saw. when I was on the task force you know. stuff making turns that didn't make any.

sense well holy [ __ ] what is this stuff. then this um anomaly with his paint is. this documented is it photographs or yes. I saw photographs it was documented yeah. and uh what is there a conventional. explanation I mean based on what he. described something to rapidly ionize. his paint like that within a a day I. don't I can't think of anything off the. top of my head in terms of some. conventional Aeros based technology and.

and this was a certain facility in the. continental US this was not overseas so. it's not like our adversaries flying. some spooky thing um in US airspace so. this thing hovered over his car for how. long couple minutes while he was. traveling at about 60 M an hour so it. was pacing how far away from his. vehicle it's probably a couple hundred. feet in altitude it was less than a. th000 feet which is also bad because.

from an airspace perspective Pilots. would know this anything under a th000. feet no unless you get special clearance. and you only do that over controlled. airspace like a military test ranges. right people fly low and that kind of. thing so is is he on what kind of a. highway is he on a conventional civilian. Highway civilian high so anyone could. have been on it yes it just happened to. be this guy mhm um did he have any other. experiences with this thing no they was. this was like a once in a lifetime thing.

um he kept it to himself for a couple. years but then he. umce was his name uh I don't what he's. that individual's still on call him Bob. but did anybody say to him hey Bob what. the [ __ ] happened to your car you know. that's a good question I don't remember. if uh people asked him about his car so. he took pride in his car so it actually. was probably more upsetting to him. personally what kind of car was it it. was like a Toyota or something so okay. yeah so all of a sudden it's Toyota.

[ __ ] okay and um so did he have to. report this is this something that he. did not report it to my knowledge to. anybody it wasn't until he reported it. to us about five years later that it uh. happened. so are th these kind of experiences. something that a lot of these Pilots are. embarrassed about discussing or have. apprehension about discussing because. they could be ridiculed MH yeah a lot of. people that are on flight status they. don't want to be sent to the psych right.

you know there's a whole Aerospace. physiology kind of empire in the. military uh that you know if you're an. operator or you know a guy missile. missile key Turner you're on what's they. call personal reliability program if. you're taking like you know Tylenol you. got to report it if you have a fever you. got to report it because you're you know. in control nuclear weapons when you're. on duty so right yeah and so this idea. of uh being predisposed to Fantasy. that's also something that they uh.

sort of talk to these people about or. try to get a gauge of yeah yeah these. are people that are very sober minded I. mean this individual was early in the. morning going to work not under the. influence of anything and uh that person. had a you know similar clearan as mine. you know tssci so you know we've gone. through Ts that top secret you know s. Department of information clearance and. you know just like myself I've been. through multiple polygraphs in my career. so did this individuals so um does he.

have any idea or any uh theories about. why this thing was following him no. that's what freaked him out the most. because it he didn't have any experience. in his life like this it like totally. blew his mind when he looked out his. moon roof and then looked out the side. of his uh car door and saw this 300 foot. triangle uh it was like pre-dawn sky but. it was darker than the preon sky and it. had this like plasma edges like it was. like purplish glowing edges and these.

three lights that had like these. omnidirectional like almost like pool. lights you know how there's you can't. really tell where the light source is. and it was totally trippy and that and. that's just one example of many. anecdotal with some evidence you know. pilot stories uh and that's what made me. dig deeper and I started you know. cultivating my network like has the. government studied this before this. wasn't just assap and a tip and blue. book and all this [ __ ] in the past right. there's this seems serious so like.

certainly the government has looked at. this and you know I went to search for. that program and that's what I ended up. whistleblowing on right so when you what. was how did you initially discover this. program and like what was your first. encounter with the information a very. senior individual in the Intel Community. came to me when uh I guess I was asking. a lot of questions because I'm a very. inquisitive guy and it was like hey we I. need to introduce you to.

somebody uh you know he listed that. certain person's academic credentials. which were Beyond reproach you know PhD. level education. clearance resume was insane I'm like. well okay sure I'll I'll talk to this. person and and I ended up meeting that. person in a you know uh a top secret. facility and you know he started the. discussing like hey there was a. program I was on it and you know we were. reverse engineering crash material that.

we've recovered over the decades you. know and he's like I'm not joking you. know and you know you know we're telling. you because you you have you guys have. to report to the deputy secretary of. defense in Congress on this matter right. and we were we were actively briefing. like uh secretary esper deputy secretary. norquist you know um other cabinet level. folks right and like there's a there you. know there must there's an oversight. issue because you're the UAP task force.

you should be read into this stuff. because like why spend the taxpayers you. know dollars looking at stuff that we. already have data on right so that's and. that spooked to me and that was like. fall of. 2019 and you know I don't take a guy's. word for it I'm like you know what. myself and my trusted colleagues that. had a lot of lot of special accesses. like me you know we cultivated our. Network and we ultimately interviewed.

about 40 people or so all the way up to. multistar. generals directors of agencies mid-level. guys that literally touched it worked. inside of it all the the stuff they. brought Intel reports for me to look at. you know. documents and and a lot of that I could. cross verify with other oral sources. that my high level colleagues or I talk. to and um you know it checked out. especially when I had enough information.

on and I know who specifically to ask. like hey well I want red into this like. I'm on the UAP task force and we went to. those I'll call them Gatekeepers for the. lack of a better term and they basically. said [ __ ] you to me and my colleagues H. so why were these other people willing. to discuss this with. you well they determined I didn't need. to know I was. already cleared at such a high level. handling presidential material and.

everything it's like Dave needs to know. and they felt that coming to us it was a. form of a protected disclosure they felt. that they weren't really violating. anything because you know we were the. I'll call it the investigatory body uh. for the Department of Defense and the. intelligence community and and con. Congress at the time and they you know. you are allowed to you know disclose to. a government official in an official.

capacity and I you know did that and of. course I protected those people and and. do know I took those people a lot of. them and and they brought them to the. intelligence Community Inspector General. when I filed my complaint because I. don't want people to you know hear it. from a secondhand Source you know people. call here say whatever though I have. some firsthand knowledge I eventually. talk about Someday I'm trying to get it. cleared but through through security. processes um uh so they could hear it. and hear the details like you know who.

what when where why where the [ __ ] is. who's in control of it what are the. cover programs etc etc etc so uh and. that's what deemed my my complaint. credible and Urgent in July. 2022 uh which is a so the my complaint. yes was about reprisal too I filed that. separately eventually to the the. Department of Defense Inspector General. that's an ongoing investigation but my. it was my congressional. oversight uh UAP crash retrieval.

allegations that was deemed uh credible. and Urgent it was sent to the Director. of National Intelligence and then it was. sent to the Congressional intelligence. committees around that time July of 2022. and I eventually went to Congress in. December of 2022 and it's a crazy story. why I took so long it's [ __ ] nuts um. but I provided total about 11 and a half. to 12 hours of uh you know classified. testimony to the Congressional staffers. and their lawyers. for both the house and the Senate and I.

I went you know full open kimono I mean. I told them as much as I could within my. time slot if you will so. so this is obviously very. compartmentalized where there's only a. few people that know about this. information and they're not allowed to. discuss it with other people when did. this all start I mean is this out of. Roswell is it predate that like when. when did they first realize that there.

are things that cannot be explained or. can't be explained through conventional. means yeah I mean the program goes back. ways the. precise beginning of it can't talk about. but I did because security stuff but I. did talk about uh publicly the 1933. retrieval and I did that uh tactically. and I ran that through the security. approval office because I wanted to show. that this is much older and it's. International it's not like a us thing I.

mean this stuff is landing or crashing. around the world and unexpected. countries have had this happen and. that's why I picked that because I. thought that was a interesting case and. then of course the you know Pope pus the. 12 and the Vatican were involved back. channeling it through the OSS which. became the CIA later to FDR and that's. how the US knew something weird happened. in Italy during well right before World. War II but so this is 33 was the first. like.

documented uh that is the earliest one I. can talk about yeah there something that. predates that might you could infer that. you could infer that yeah so this 331. you said was in Italy yeah magenta so. it's a I'm bad at geography I think. that's like Lombardi region it's like. Northern Northwest Italy and what's the. story behind it so um basically it it it. looked like it crashed right it the. original shape most likely was like a.

lenticular disc like craft you know with. like a two dinner plates what does. lenticular mean so like two dinner. plates you know smooshed together right. the hump and there's like a you know. like a bubble on topic classic like like. that like that okay but it looks like. when it hits the edges broke off so it. became this like Bell or. Acorn shaped thing um and there was. nothing in it it was like just an. artifact you know was no biological.

remnants if you will um so it's so funny. because the Italians were so confused. they actually called up the Germans and. they were like is this one yunda like. what the hell just crashed in Northern. Italy musolini um and this is all. publicly available information because. some Italian. researchers um found all these original. documents that some people were sitting. on for years in Italy uh you know they. put a gag gag order on the Press Etc and. yeah melini asked the Germans to come.

down and of course the Germans came down. and they were like uh that is not ours. but let's look at it together so that's. kind of uh perhaps a tertiary reason the. kind of access powers got together I'm. not saying that's like the reason but I. think the Italians and the Germans were. so intrigued with what they found from. like an artifact perspective there was. at least some scientific and Military uh. collaboration during the war the details. of which uh I'm not I'm not sure of but.

I know people that know that specific. event that are currently still Intel. officers within this program uh in. detail but yeah so was there witnesses. to the crash or some sort of an. understanding that something had crash. landed and then they discovered it yeah. I I forget the precise. Discovery uh I don't know if it was like. uh local police officers or local. farmers found in the field something. like that I I don't want to speak I'm I.

assume some of the Italian researchers. might have some fact witnesses that can. orally say oh yeah my my. great-grandfather found it or something. like that but I don't remember what was. the scale of this vehicle uh it was. probably like like 20 ft by 10 ft. something like that not super huge but. kind of big do they think that this was. a drone do they think that this was. occupied there was nothing in it so if. it if it was uh piloted if you will by. some sentience I mean your guess is as. good as mine so H so what happened to.

that. vehicle so we knew where it was being. stored at a a particular location um. after the crash and then the military. came in and we we grabbed it towards the. end of the war you know 1944 1945. because like I said pop Pi the 12th. already kind. of let uh FDR know why did the Pope get. involved because it's Italy well. interesting ly enough there's like a. whole history of human intelligence.

prior to World War II and uh old money. the Vatican the Italian mob um kind of. the old country boys did a lot of. informal intelligence collection uh for. the US and and there's probably some. books you can read on it but it's really. interesting you know human intelligence. collection wasn't really formalized. until the offic office of strategic. Services the OSS which became the CIA in. 1947. um you had um you know Paul melon and.

all these other affluent guys of all. these old money families that basically. created the CIA so that's probably the. reason why so this thing that was. recovered this was the first documented. one that the United States had access to. I can't get into if it was a first or. not but okay it was an early one very. early yeah so it's almost hundred years. ago yes and so they take this thing and. then they bring it.

where yeah I can't I can't get into. those can't get into okay so they bring. it somewhere in the United States and uh. was the attempt to try to back engineer. this thing was the attempt to try to. understand what it was yeah I mean first. of it obviously it's understanding the. situation right what do we have our. hands on and and like I've said in some. other videos and stuff you know that we. took the Manhattan Project secrecy and. overlaid it on this issue because that. secrecy worked well for atomic bomb.

developments and whatnot and and. certainly this whole program in a. nutshell if I were to like summarize the. 90 plus years of History it is a reverse. engineering program to Garner some kind. of insight uh and of course not a lot of. the things that we've learned from it. are like. directly you know ripped off the. technology we found but it has inspired. other innovations that made its way into.

other us classified programs over the. year for National Defense reasons you. know and it's a myriad of different. things so the the UFO folklore is that. this is where fiber optics were. discovered first yeah I'm not going to. break the seal on anything we've. discovered or anything like that and. yeah it's place I can't go how limited. are you in what you can discuss and what. you can't discuss and why why do they. let you discuss any of this yeah so. anything sensitive that I want say as it. relates to like US Government activity.

whether it be intelligence stuff. military Stuff Etc I have to submit it. through what they call doser Dod office. of pre-publication and Security review. that is something anybody who's been an. Intel officer anybody with like a. clearance has to submit that kind of. stuff now obviously if you're writing a. book about gardening you don't have to. but if you're going to talk about. anything military and intelligence. related you have to submit so it's kind. of a catch 22 for this office right. their own only looking at it from a. security perspective they're not.

vouching for it or anything like that. and that's like any author right they. could write a a book about Navy Seals. and they're not vouching for the story. they're vouching that you didn't say any. nasty code words you didn't burn a. specific ongoing classified program and. for them I mean I'm not in their udal. Loop but certainly it's a catch 22 for. them where if they want to redact and. they propose a redaction they're like. hey Dave you can't say these sentences. you can rewrite it and resubmit you know.

we can't necessarily tell you uh what. agency said to redact it but you're not. allowed to say. this uh they would be basically. self-certifying there's a there there so. in my opinion probably the policy is. like if it has to deal with the subject. we're not saying anything we're not. proposing any redactions as as long as. he's not burning a conventional. program uh we kind of have to allow him. to exercise his first amendment rights.

and I so I think it's like a catch 22. for that office is kind of the long or. the short of the long answer so so this. is essentially one of the very early. ones 1933 M how many crash. retrieval incidents have there been it. is double digit uh the specific numbers. I do know however I can't discuss that I. know it sounds like oh I'm being koi or. whatever but you know this show any. other interviews I do right you know.

foreign intelligence services are. watching and it's like I'm not here to. help Russia and China calibrate their. intelligence collection like oh Dave. said it's this number we missed a couple. [ __ ] let's put it out for the KGB svr. and Gru are now going to hit the streets. to try to figure out which ones they. miss so I'm I'm here to protect National. Security and I'm just trying to put all. the general topics out there for public. conversation the our government. accountable really so because I'm I'm.

here as a fact witness because we have a. you know a constitutional oversight. issue because this. program has not. been you know reported to Congress in. the appropriate way you know and I can. get into a senator I talked to that has. died recently so I can you know explain. to you why I'm so sure besides what I. read which we can get into the what. Intel Port reports I read I did get some.

stuff cleared um so during my. investigation I'm like you know what I. need to talk to somebody at the highest. levels right so and this will give you. an idea of the kind of people we talk to. and this is the only one I'm going to. talk about using their name because they. died two years ago so in Spring 2021 I. actually flew with a couple colleagues. of mine to Las Vegas and I met with. Senator Harry. Reid about N9 months before he died and.

of course he's a private citizen now and. I wanted to brief him. on the topic and I wanted to get his. kind of thought leadership on it because. you know he was a gang of eight member. right you know which is the top most. cleared senators and Congressman he was. the majority leader for God's sakes of. the Senate and I knew you know he helped. sponsor the assap program that I. mentioned and where they looked at. Skinwalker Ranch and some other things. and I wanted to understand like what. does Harry Reid actually know like why.

did he you know give $21 million to DIA. and Bigalow Aerospace for this so I'm. sitting there in Harry Reid's living. room you know right next to him with. some other witnesses that were there. with me and he straight up says he's. like yeah I knew we had UFO material I. was denied access for decades I tried to. get access and then he explains some of. his efforts during AET app uh and I was.

like holy [ __ ] did the former Majority. Leader just say did he just confirm this. to me as well you know I was already. talking to these amazing highlevel. people but I have Harry Reid literally. saying yes we have material and you know. he knew it was non-human did Harry Reid. have personal experience with this I. don't know if he's had any personal. stuff in his personal life I mean did he. see it did he witness in terms of seeing. the m material himself he said he was.

denied access for years or decades was. his term and he actually told me on. behalf of me he was going so he had like. a weekly call with President Joe Biden. at the time and he straight up said to. me he was gonna talk to President Biden. about this issue. literally and then uh what he was. telling me about. assap um I was like holy [ __ ] I have. like 20 other people that told me this.

dude so the real history what [ __ ]. assap was because I think there's a lot. of people out there that think they were. looking at ghosts Skinwalker Ranch yes. they went to the ranch as a secondary. and tertiary objective but the. real uh reason so like there's a. document that came out a couple years. ago through Foya from the defense. intelligence agency there was this. special Access program request that. Harry Reid you might have seen this I. think like George nap and Company have.

reported on this that he sent to the. deputy secretary defense William Lynn. and it was asking for one of the most. serious saps you can ask for what they. call a bigoted waved special Access. program so waved means it's limited. Congressional reporting um that is a. class of special access programs and. bigoted means it's like by name and it's. like it was like you could read the foa. document it was like you know Harry Reid. James in Hoff uh Lando Etc I'm like why.

are you asking for the most serious sap. to be created for a program that. ostensibly is looking at Skinwalker. Ranch and stuff and it doesn't make any. sense so what really happened there and. uh you know Harry me Harry Reid God. bless his soul made this. disclosure um a couple weeks after we. met uh in the New Yorker and you can. look this up I think it was like a May. 200 21 New Yorker story where he says I.

knew for decades and he made this. disclosure not me so I'm going to say. the name of the contractor Harry Reed. said this uh you know we knew that. lockie Martin had this material for. decades I tried to get access and I was. denied and specifically with the locki. Martin stuff he was talking about during. the assap program and for the people who. are on this program I submitted this. [ __ ] to doser got this cleared so don't. freak out but I'm telling the truth. here um so lockie Martin wanted to. divest itself from this material at a.

specific facility that's known to me. that I provided to the Inspector. General um like street address all that. [ __ ] right and the idea was if they made. a catcher mitt a security catchers mitt. for this [ __ ] at you know most serious. sa possible the contractor and the other. government customer which was the. Central Intelligence Agency um for that. specific locked material and it was [ __ ]. that they recovered from like the 50s. and stuff and it was like bits and.

pieces of of of of like Hall structure. [ __ ] like that. and um uh so they were going to Tech. transfer it and the 21 or 22 million was. actually for Bigalow Aerospace to build. out you know facilities in Las Vegas and. material analysis equipment and I've SE. I have I saw the staff meeting slides I. saw the paperwork like there's a. paperwork Trail I've seen on this [ __ ]. and I talked to the people involved in.

this program and you know even Jim laty. who ran the program who retired Dia. officer PhD in engineering even made. this disclosure in his book skinwalkers. at the Pentagon uh page 152 to 153 and. he also made a disclosure a couple weeks. ago I think it was on weaponized podcast. with Jeremy Corbell and George knp where. he's like yeah we had a whole craft and. we broke into the hall and we gained.

access and he ran that through the same. you know security process as I did and. so Jim. latsky who ran this program is also. going on the record that he is aware uh. personally aware of intact vehicles and. everything but uh so they gained access. what does that mean by what method did. they gain access the way he wrote it in. his book I can only infer it sounded. Force forcible so through some kind of. you know means I don't know if it was. like CO2 laser or something I don't.

actually know how they gained access but. imagine it was uh not permissive access. they like broke into the damn thing so. this thing is essentially uh. sealed and it's some sort of uh what was. the shape of this thing uh he thei. didn't disclose the shape on this. particular vehicle as far as I the. dimensions I don't believe he did in his. book uh but I think it's like chapter 11. in his new book or something I glanced. at it but he did make that disclosure on. video as well and I do.

encourage both the arrow office which is. the dod's UAP task force successor and. Congress to ask Dr James latsky to come. in for classified testimony because the. disclosure in his one book that he wrote. with colum kellerer George knap and in. the second book well the guy saying he. has close personal knowledge he needs to. go to Congress so I you know I don't. know James latsky but do encourage him. to be a fact witness uh but going back.

to that transfer with locki long story. short can't get in all the Nuance. details but basically the. CIA uh said [ __ ] you to DIA and locked. and it was totally killed so Harry. Reid's request to get the material. transferred to the assap program was. totally killed because of bureaucracy. and kind of fom stuff so they use that. money and then they you know you know. they wrote those defense intelligence.

reference documents the dirds as a lot. of people who's familiar with it. listening will know about and then they. did look at Skinwalker Ranch. because they thought that studying kind. of the more woow woo phenomenon aspects. of this and I've never been to the ranch. so I've never experienced the ranch for. myself but you know obviously I think we. both know a bunch of people that have. been to the ranch and have seen some. trippy stuff or at least alleged that. um they thought that they would be able.

to gain currency with the with the. program you know in in this case CIA to. unlock the key for the locked Martin. stuff uh which actually I'll tell you. right now it's like so weird to say that. but I I ran that [ __ ] through security. um you to me it's like an out of body. experience to talk about that kind of uh. detailed sensitivity uh stuff like that. but but basically they studied the ranch. to gain favor to be like hey look at all. this stuff for figuring out this. paranormal stuff that's somehow.

connected to the phenomenon on the ranch. but ultimately they never gained favor. with the government customer and then. the program kind of died a slow death. because of a lot of politics in the. Pentagon so that's kind of the long but. short of it with the assap program that. you know I wanted to make sure the. public knew it's not what you think it. was there was some other stuff behind. the scenes that you know I wanted to. speak truth to power on so this. particular vehicle that they had. recovered from the 1950s what what was.

the source of it where did they find it. uh those. details uh I did not get cleared so yeah. so they have in possession this thing. they gain access to this thing and what. do they report once they've gained. access to it oh those details I I do not. know that's a that's probably a question. for Dr. latsky um I presume he knows those. details I don't know so this thing is. housed.

somewhere it is yes. currently it may still be in the same. location that I know about yes and how. many people have access to this and how. did they prevent this information from. being released I mean you know it goes. back to the compartmentation and kind of. the ecosystem of secrecy in this. community right you know only a limited. amount of people you know at least at. the time you know on locked Martin's. side and and locked Martin was.

complaining basically like look like the. secrecy is ridiculous we can't even. bring the right Engineers like imagine. you're like a hot engineer hot engineer. no hot shot engineer you might be hot. too I don't know but that you know. you're fresh out of grad school maybe. you're like the best PhD electrical. engineer you want to do cool [ __ ] you. want to publish an i e you want to like. you know climb the ladder corporately. you know and that kind of thing. a Loy Martin executive comes to you yeah.

dude uh you're gonna I can reach into. something really crazy but you're never. going to publish papers on it you're. never going to be able to tell people. what you worked on and it's probably not. the most career enhancing but if you. want to work on something cool but I. can't tell you because it's. unacknowledged until you sign this piece. of paper non-disclosure. agreement. um uh uh you know sorry but here's the. Raw Deal and you know a lot of people.

are like [ __ ] you no and and it's not. like locked Martin could broadcast this. to universities like come work for us. you'll work on crazy [ __ ] and but that. is very akin to a lot of other black. programs in the government that are on. ackn knowledge in nature you don't know. what you're signing them for until you. get bred in and I've you know I've been. brief to a lot of that kind of. conventional stuff in my career so what. that's one of the the problems that Bob. Lazar and I'd love to get your take on. Bob Lazar one of one of the things that.

he talked about was that science can't. really operate in a vacuum when you. separate the metallurgists from the. propulsions experts from the biological. experts like and they're not allowed to. communicate with each other and they're. not allowed to bring in other experts to. have different well that was the. frustration that um I had some friends. that I've known my entire career like. almost 14 years right I literally know. them personally um I had a relationship. with them but they ended up you know. spilling the beans where you know look.

we're we're on the program I'm an. engineer for X Y and Z we can't even. cross talk across like the cubicles for. God's sakes like I can't I'm looking at. Material X doing some um x-ray. defraction testing on it which is like. shooting a stream of electrons and. seeing how how it bends and looking at. the atomic Arrangements I can't even. like cross talk that with another aspect. of the program this is like ridiculous. and and that's kind of their.

frustration um yeah I knew you're. probably going to ask me about B Bazar I. know I fig I figured as much um why did. they do that though if everybody was. already sworn to secrecy everybody. already has ndas it seems the most. effective way of reverse engineering or. at least gaining an understanding of how. these things are structured well that's. exactly how Manhattan was right people. working on the fuses for the bomb didn't. necessarily know it was going to a. nuclear weapon and so and I've seen this. kind of compartmentation is up secrecy. in other programs and it is debilitating.

for progress and honestly as a fidu. former fiduciary of the taxpayer dollars. it's not the best modus operandus to do. it that. way and very few people kind of had that. top down could look across the silos and. see what was going on it just became. very dysfunctional and they were afraid. of people being too cross briefed into. the different silos for counter. Espionage Counter Intelligence that you. know they were got to remember a bulk of. this program was done during the Cold.

War and you know we were afraid of. Russian spies Soviet moles and so we. made it Ultra locked down but to the. detriment of National Security and that. was one of the crazy things that got me. that I wanted to whistleblow on because. I'm like this is so stupid like we. should be making more progress on this. were there any breaches that you're. aware of we foreign agents were able to. gain access to materials or an. understanding of what we know. so I'll tell you about some Intel.

documents I read that kind of obliquely. answers that question so uh there were. sens of human derve foreign intelligence. that I read um so I had access to kind. of the atip assap uh classified archives. and I was like thumbing through. everything and there's some other people. were bringing me documents to. evaluate and I'll never forget I had um. what it say stolen by the US in. assessment from a certain foreign. adversary discussing the US reverse.

engineering program and I was like and. that was actually another like what the. [ __ ] and and so I had an adversary also. confirm this program literally because. of exfiltrated. intelligence and so they certainly had a. limited knowledge at least fact of that. the US had a program like this a. particular adversary and actually. I was like well I want more like it I.

know who wrote this literally or who got. it right uh on behalf of the United. States government so I went to that. certain agency through the approved and. official way and this is kind of part of. the myus reprisals against me uh the. agency was like oh yes we have what. you're looking for Dave um you're going. to need to sign a one-time reading to. something you know come visit us to you. know go to the Vault and read it right. you know hard copy M uh but yes we have. what you're looking for and.

ultimately uh from what I was told by. friends in higher places my request kind. of went up the flag pole at that. agency and all of a sudden the agency. ghosted my boss and I for like two. months and then when I really press them. hard to gain access because I'm like I. have a need to know I need to evaluate. this intelligence for [ __ ]. Congress and they debriefed me. uh from all my accesses over in that.

other sister agency and made up some. bogus excuse like I shouldn't have been. briefed to anything in the first place. literally and basically gave me an. administrative M middle finger like. person non gra don't ever [ __ ] ask us. about that [ __ ] again I and I I I'm sure. the person who made the oops that told. me they had what I was looking for. probably got admonished and slapped on. the wrist cuz I never heard from that. person again even though was somebody I. actually used to work on occasion with.

so uh that was also another way I knew. um I was uh you know there was a lot of. smoke and fire because I you know had. stuff like that happen to me. so. this but knowing that our adversaries. were aware of this reverse engineering. program are we aware of their reverse. engineering programs yeah how which uh. countries uh you could you could.

probably guess and you wouldn't be uh it. won't be too shocking okay but I won't. acknowledge what the US may know right. so are we aware of numbers in terms of. like at least a rough estimate of how. many are available to these other yeah. how many uh I can't that's like super. there's more than one yeah you could. read into that you could read into that. and has anyone made any progress. yeah I can't get into if we've made.

progress if they've made progress. because that's like straight up some. national security stuff but like I want. the just to be clear I want the US. populace to learn a lot of this and this. is why you know another reason why I. went public is like I need to call. everybody out I'm not here to admonish. the entire government mind you but there. is an element of the US government and. its clear defense contractor base that. you know we have a three branch of. government oversight issue like going.

back to Harry Reid Harry Reid didn't. even get access I [ __ ] talked to him. myself to confirm that and he said he. was going to go talk to Biden um because. I think there needs to be a disclosure. plan this goes back to what's currently. in legislation right now that's super. [ __ ] important um because 90 some 90. some odd percent of this should should. be open for public discovery public um. analysis and Academia this should be.

like at very least true nuclear programs. such as Nuclear Physics you study in a. university nuclear weapons classified. because that makes people in the pink. misted that's really sensitive we don't. need everybody to know how to do that so. I think the stuff that is like legit. weapons related stuff that's like. straight up national superiority stuff. sure reasonably classifi that but but. this these programs we need a change and.

that's why you saw the Schumer Amendment. right and I think you might have read. that on air or something in a previous. episode I remember correctly you know. Chuck Schumer and I knew about the. amendment a couple months before I went. public and that's kind of another reason. why I did what I did I'm like [ __ ] I'm. like the only guy that kind of has the. opportunity to do this I know what's in. the shoot so to speak that Chuck Schumer. and his staff had with the Schumer M. which is 67 pages of literal we want to.

disclose and I'm like I have to spike. the football by going public because you. know I can read the tea leaves on the. hill and I think that they were hesitant. to do. anything uh without being able to point. to something publicly and I'm like I'll. be that [ __ ] guy and just send it. um and and then of course a month after. I went public I guess I pushed Chuck. Schumer over the ledge and I do know he. talked to the White House about the.

amendment too because not like Chuck. Schumer is going to propose. groundbreaking legislation like that. without talking to the National Security. adviser or president like I imagine he. did so and you know so you have the 67. page amendments right it's called the. UAP disclosure Act of. 2023 known as the Schumer Amendment. co-sponsors were young Gill brand. Rubio uh rounds yeah and Young. and you know kudos for those Senators. for stepping up to the plate because.

they know this is real I know what. meetings that they've had with certain. other individuals that are you know even. more credible than myself and so this. this act which is like super important. is currently in conference as we speak. in Capitol Hill so the amendment is. wrapped in something called the fiscal. year. 2024 National Defense authorization act. so that is the act that funds the mil. military basically every year right so. it's an amendment within this.

bill and uh the ACT is really long but. the main meat of it is about halfway. through the act it talks about a. presidential panel or agency which is. nine person and a controlled UAP. disclosure plan that's six years in. length conceivably from 2024 to 20130. and this panel and you can read this. this is public law anybody can read this. they want a scientist a ists you know. you know sociologists Etc it's kind of.

like who you would want to help craft. the plan for the president and this. whole bill was actually built off the. JFK records act which I know like. they're like well they never released. all the records well we put some teeth. in the bill some eminent domains some. other stuff to you know kind of force. the issue now granted the chief. executive the president has the final. say the panel can't compel the executive. to do it but like I hope the president. does and I support that but so the.

Senate already passed it they're chill. with this this is like we're we're good. to go and and but there's push back in. the house right now that is you know. pardon my language [ __ ] ridiculous so. they're saying for one it's duplicating. the dod Arrow's office activities. they're doing good things they're. looking at UAP reports trying to figure. out what's balloons and air trash and. what's weird stuff and of course they. are doing an historical review to try to.

understand the US's history on this too. but the problem is with that. agency it it's within the dodn I not. above so you have an issue reaching into. Department of energy other you know. cabinet level agencies so you need a. presidential level panel that can. declassify stuff reach into other. agencies and tell you know certain. secretaries we're coming in we want your. stuff. under presidential Authority so what's. happening in the.

house from what I'm told from people on. the hill that are working the issue. right now you have the the chair of the. house Intel committee Mike Turner who's. blocking this uh from Ohio Dayton Ohio. area right Pat. weird and right Pat meaning right. Patterson Air Force yeah and uh Mike. Rogers which I'm kind of surprised uh. from Alabama who's the chair of the. house armed services committee so I have. a problem with Mike and Mike right now. so Mike Turner now remember I went to.

his Committee in December last year he. wasn't there but his staff and lawyers. were and of course he goes on Fox. Business after the hearing doesn't use. my names like this whistleblower he has. no idea what he's talking about I'm like. really tell me Mike have you ever been. an Intel officer or served in the. military oh wait you've been the a mayor. the mayor of Dayton Ohio you were voted. most corrupt person in Congress a couple. uh years ago and uh pull up his pack.

donors who are his biggest donors locked. Ron. Boeing okay so uh and first of all if. you thought that you needed more. information or wanted to talk to me. personally why didn't you call me back. when I reported to your committee so uh. and furthermore besides blocking the. bill I'm sure you're familiar with like. representative Tim bersett of Alabama. and he's been very outspoken on the. issue we may not agree with everything. Tim says about conventional stuff that's.

you know here no there but you know he's. been a champion on the oversight. committee and he was you know one of the. members that I testified in public under. oath regarding this so like uh and Mike. Turner is looking to fund according to. staffers I've talked to last two weeks. an opposition candidate for Tim's. re-election in 2024 so why is Mike. Turner going out of his way to destroy. the career of a courageous Tennessee.

representative on the oversight. committee and why are you blocking a. bill and it's not going to cost much. couple million a year Max you know for. the panel which is like vaporware in US. Government speak right um uh if there's. nothing to see here why are Mike Rogers. and Mike Turner in the house blocking. this bill that is in my opinion the most. important legislation for in transpar. parency in American history if there's. nothing to see here if I'm [ __ ] crazy.

multistar generals I talk to are crazy. the Intel docs that I read are incorrect. they're [ __ ] forgeries or passage. material or something like. that good friends of mine that worked on. the program are bullshitting me in some. consorted uh operation against me and my. colleagues that it would be totally. crazy to even conduct that because I. took precautions then why don't we just. pass this and see what happens. and why what do you think the answer to. that is special interests want to keep.

the genie in the bottle even though the. toothpaste is coming out of the tube and. I think it's like a death rattle in this. industrial complex that doesn't want. change and I'm not here to be some total. adversary I I think there needs to be a. Truth and Reconciliation process on this. issue I'm not here to throw people in. jail I'm not here for big contractors. involved to lose money I think this is. would be a Boon and I think the. leadership in these companies need to. think about this where if we're more.

open with this you can hire people you. can push the subject into undergraduate. graduates and. post-doctoral programs of uh you know. research to study this in an. unclassified just like nuclear physics. and this answers a fundamental. question uh you know for Humanity are we. alone or you know what happens when we. die well I don't know about that but are. we alone well the answer is we're not. alone and I know that with 100%.

certainty which as an Intel officer you. never say 100%. but all things pointed. towards uh based on the people I talked. to like Harry Reid and I use him as an. example but I talk to the highest of the. high people you could possibly talk to. if you catch my drift so. MH unless all them are lying and they're. covering up something else which I don't. even know what it would be at this point. because the. phenomenon is real it's been going on.

for thousands of years people been. seeing strange things and not. everybody's Mass hallucinating so that's. kind of my long diet tribe about what's. happening what do they think these. things are the people that you talk to. so they specifically the people on the. program that handled the material that. were in executive level briefings with. Intel Community leaders and other folks. over the years last years or so they did. use the term extraterrestrial ET or.

whatever okay that isn't a possible. origin but the Schumer Amendment if you. read it it specifically uses non-human. intelligence NH hii very deliberately. because we want to catch everything. because what if some of this stuff is. not ET and they're going to use as an. escape Clause like well this stuff that. we don't even know if it's. extraterrestrial so this doesn't apply. so that's why we wanted to be as broad. as possible possible I mean besides ET I. mean a lot of it would be my.

own uh personal opinion I think we have. a couple conceivable buckets and I'm. using the work of jacqu. valet other people that have thought. deeply on the issue on how the. phenomenon has changed since an. Antiquity it showed it showed itself in. a different way like a good example is. like witches sitting on your chest. phenomenon with you know paralysis and. medieval and Enlightenment area you know.

era became this alien abduction. phenomenon uh in the modern area era. excuse me and is it is it the the. recipient and their analytical overlay. cognitively seeing the phenomenon based. on a Moder interpretation you know. inside out or is the phenomenon this is. like jacqu Val's book passport to mag. Magnolia Magnolia I can never pronounce. it right 19 1969 where he talks about. the phenomenon seems to like masquerade.

itself as different stuff over the years. but you know we've seen roughly the same. stuff if you look at the Foo Fighters of. World War II uh there are Declassified. Air Force OSI reports from the 50s. people can Google that talk about flying. butane tanks with the same measurements. approximately what we saw in the 2004. Tic Tac incident but they called it. flying propane or you know butane tanks. in the 50s so uh from a morphology or in.

the Air Force Intel we call it vrei. visual reconnaissance like they. basically look the same and we can back. asouth that you know decades if not. hundreds of years in the past you know. wheels of Ezekiel right they're seeing. these like disc type objects right and. unless Ezekiel is uh tripping or this is. an allegory or fable in the in the Bible. you know let's say the event happens. just like the in the viic text you have. the battles the blue people and the uh.

battles in the sky that sound like. nuclear and directed energy weapons like. what's going on there I mean maybe. that's a Graham Hancock or Randall. Carlson type thing they could they know. more than I so there is a real. phenomenon that uh origin undetermined. but it it's trippy and sometimes it. presents itself in like a non-corporeal. form too you know orbs balls of. uh you know they don't appear as like. some kind of bipedal hominid like some.

people have espoused so I think that. might. be call it interdimensional call it. Shadow biome crypto terrest I mean. there's a lot of different theories what. are the primary the the primary theories. are from another planet or From Another. Dimension I think those are the primary. I mean there's. certainly Origins that we probably can't. conceptualize as humans but because. we're just our meat is stuck in 3D and. we don't understand and our IQs are only.

so high so there might be some Origins. that we don't understand in terms of. like interdimensional travel yeah I mean. obviously you know if you talk to. mainstream physicists they say like. Crossing Dimensions physically is kind. of a. Trope of sci-fi and you know I that's. why I used an example and I know some. physicists don't like me talking about. this Theory but it is a theory you know. like so the holographic principle which. was. originally conceived to explain how.

information is encoded on an event. horizon of a black hole which is a. distance away from the singularity of a. black hole where if you cross it you're. [ __ ] because you're going to get rip. the shreds or you're not coming back and. uh that principle talks about how. information basically from higher. dimensional space can be. encoded in lower dimensional space and. the easiest example is like us casting a. shadow on a sidewalk right.

three-dimensional object 2D shadow on a. sidewalk if you lived in two-dimensional. space flat land you'd be tripped out. what the [ __ ] am I seeing but they just. don't know that it's really just a. person in higher dimensional space so is. some of the I mean obviously we have. physical material that's in. three-dimensional space that we've. recovered but at least maybe some of the. phenomenon is really operating in higher. spatial dimension ions but is either. being projected or quasi projected into.

our 3D plus time space which is really. trippy to think about but we literally. do it on a day-to-day basis like casting. Shadows so and that might be some of. what we're seeing too but I mean I. presume we know more the people I talked. to did not uhouse they had full. knowledge either like I said the the. normal cism was to say ET or. extraterrestrial could you dumb down. this concept of. interdimensional like yeah. what I know in physics they have.

theorized that there are multiple. Dimensions other than those that we can. currently detect yeah and a lot of that. is based off of like L this is my. bachelor's degree talking I know there's. going to be like some physicists who has. a PHD is like oh da if you [ __ ] that up. but right but basically you know from. high energy particle collisions and. based on the the flection Angles and all. the stuff what happens when the. particles collide. you know uh you know confirm certain.

theoretical Frameworks about extras. spatial dimensions and you know I can't. speak uh with any real Authority on you. know precisely how that works but a lot. of um whether it be String Theory or. quantum mechanics are based off of. higher spatial dimensions and um you. know so that is a mainstream physics uh. theoretical framework that's not like. wacky or Looney or anything like that. so but that's basically uh a possibility.

but like I said like we don't really. have a good theory if you if you work if. you lived in like 5D space for example. it's almost like um remember the ending. of the movie Interstellar right where. where he's pushing the books he's like. in a tesseract you know which is like a. four to 5D structure but he's trying to. interact with 3D space and of course he. like leaves that space to come back to. his daughter many years later at the end. of ending of the movie great movie. but um so uh that's a way to. conceptualize it in something you may.

have watched in film it's kind of like. the ending of inter Interstellar oh yeah. yeah there you go. yeah which is based on what like what. theory so the physicist Kip Thorne was. the very famous guy he was a big black. hole and Wormhole guy I think it's. Caltech or somewhere in California Kip. Thorne actually did all the physics. equations and everything for Christopher. Nolan to make sure that they were.

conceptualizing and. visualizing uh black holes and wormholes. and all that stuff correctly in the. movie where you saw like the the halo. around the Black Hole uh when they were. coming in with the ship and everything. that's actually based off of real. physics models that uh Kip Thorne did. the calculations for which is pretty. cool actually that Christopher Nolan. took it to that level you know so this. idea that these beings or whatever you. want to call them exist in some other. dimension do we.

have I mean I don't know what you can. say about this do we have an. understanding do we have any sort of. communication with these beings that. give us some sort of an understanding or. a map of this yeah the interaction stuff. uh it's a sensitive. area um there were multiple very senior. people that were concerned about talking. about that kind of stuff with me uh I. mean that is. certainly as nuts as it sounds that was. a real subject of conversation even it.

sounds like something out of like Star. Trek first Contact but it doesn't if you. have vehicles yeah so it's it's like. once you realize the phenomenon's. real then you realize we've recovered. artifacts and you know biologics or you. know dead Pilots if you will even though. it's you know kind of creepy to even. think about that in your. worldview you don't think they were ever. you know alive sometimes too right and I. you know I'll leave it at that only.

because that you know that is something. you know the the president in his. cabinet needed to disclose this in a. controlled manner going back to that. Amendment you know I'm not. here to uh you know push the subject in. an. improper way and that sounds like why. don't you just do it Dave like there's a. lot of secondary and tertiary. ramifications so economically. theologically. um our relationship geopolitically with. our allies and adversaries this is not.

uh rip off the Band-Aid and it's simple. there there's there's a lot of complex. stuff behind the scenes that need to. happen and that's why I'm I'm laying out. all the general stuff that needs to be. talked about during the disclosure. process but I should not be the one. disclosing and it would be highly. inappropriate because I care about the. health of the United States and its. people and National Security for me to. do so so I know there's people that are. like oh why doesn't Dave say X Y and Z. it's like this is serious this is not.

like haha let me tell you a good story. I'm a serious guy I ruined my [ __ ]. career doing this I was going to make. lieutenant colonel in the Air Force in. this winter I was on track to be you. know a flag officer equivalent civilian. uh in my career uh I spent 18 years in. uniform uh if you count the cadet time. right uh my whole adult life was serving. as an Intel officer but I wanted to see. and I'm 36 right older Millennial I. wanted to see change so I'm throwing the.

flag out and I'm here to hold the. government accountable to do the right. thing in a manner that is mature and. thorough because I don't begin to say. that I know everything all the different. ramifications of saying certain things. publicly I don't know all the answers to. that and that's why I have to be careful. cuz I don't even know I'll call it you. know collateral damage effects to use. kind of a military term what may happen. of certain things in detail that are.

revealed that I might not know the. ramifications thereof because there's. something that I'm not privy to so this. is like a serious this is not like a fun. situation this is like a Humanity. changing hopefully in a good way but. this is like you. know uh quite serious and I you know. risked my personal and professional life. and I personal life because things have. happened to. me uh to be public like this and and you.

know I swore an oath but you know myself. and my generation you know want to see. it change can you discuss the things. that have happened to you personally. yeah so uh a lot of the stuff I have to. be purposely vague because there's an. open Inspector General reprisal. investigation on my behalf and I'm not. here to compromise the investigation by. tipping off my antibodies that may be. watching right now. but you know when I really started. looking into this I mean they came after. me so hard to try to revoke my.

clearance um ruined my career kicked me. out of my agency and they accused me of. everything you could possibly think of. with like no evidence uh for. example at first they they wanted to say. oh Dave uh you have mental health stuff. you didn't report to us we're concerned. cuz we we think you might have have an. ongoing mental health issue I'm like. what are you talking about I reported.

that I had PTSD from. Afghanistan in my military service. several years ago and I sought help for. that like I I'm not ashamed of that you. know I'm high functioning autistic and. and I didn't know that until my early. 30s and and how I processed trauma I. didn't really uh understand until many. years later and you know I sought help. for that and they were trying to say. that like I had some Secret mental. health problem that I haven't been. reporting to so I had to go through this.

whole process three agencies at the same. time investigated me for that which I. don't even know if that's like legal. they tried to say that I like mishandled. classifi all this other stuff it was. insane. apparently I was under criminal. investigation for a couple months and I. didn't even know that and nor did they. interview me but they made a uh finding. with no evidence they tried to use. against me that I had to spend money to. basically litigate and maintain my. employment my clearance which I did for.

the record I maintained my clearance I. resigned with full accesses you know I'm. just debriefed now but I maintained my. top secret. eligibility and I left with my own. accord and and so and of course uh they. ruined one of my boss's careers in. another agency they walked him out of. the building and revoked his clearance. and terminated him as a show of force. after they were going after me and um I. feel sorry for that certain.

individual and they came after. co-workers of mine I can't get into who. what when where and why to protect their. identities and their own process but so. that's what happened to me. professionally and. then what happened to me personally. was very. disturbing um so I have to be very vague. about this because ongoing investigation. but I think you'll understand what I'm. saying. is uh they showed my wife and I they can.

touch me at any time two. times and it was very disturbing it was. in conjunction with some other people. getting a message like that that are to. say publicly wellknown some that aren't. publicly wellknown. and of course I immediately reported. that to you know Counter Intelligence. federal law enforcement local to me. because it you know wasn't Criminal but. it was like a [ __ ] you to me like. and this was right before I filed my. whistleblower complaint now I don't know.

who did this you know and entity who did. X Y and Z to my wife and I identity. unknown but it [ __ ] happens and I you. know provided that documentation to a. couple special. agents and I just knew that it was. getting. serious and you know. as first of all I'm the kind of person. I'm I'm from Pittsburgh you know like. steel toown I don't take [ __ ] from. people and I decided [ __ ] it I'm going.

to file an inspector general complaint. to protect myself I don't I'm in fear. for my safety you know my wife's an Air. Force veteran too and you know very. strong individual but you know as a man. you don't want to put your family at. risk and you know did certain other. measures which I won't talk about to. protect myself uh you know physically. and I could not believe. that that was happening to me no kidding. and I.

knew I needed to do something internally. and then when I saw the writing on the. wall uh earlier this year and of course. I knew about the Schumer Amendment like. I mentioned earlier and I knew I'm like. you know I I got to do this for my own. protection because me leaving the. federal service because I resigned my. Air Force commission I totally threw. that career away um to do what I thought. was the right and patriotic thing to. whistleblow on this you know and I you. know swore my oath 18 years ago and that. sounds hokey but I believe you know.

Integrity first service for self and. Excellence all we do that's the Air. Force motto and I'm like I this is not. going to help me personally like love. talking to you um I like spreading this. message because it's the right and. ethical thing to do but this is a. nightmare for me I don't want to be. public I've served the country in. clandestine and covert operations for 14. years I've done technical intelligence. for some of the most high-profile. takedowns in US history I shouldn't even.

be here but I am because I want to see. change I saw something unethical and. unmoral I want to make sure I hold that. element of the government. accountable and it was the right [ __ ]. thing to do and and I get kind of. emotional about that because you know my. career's been service and sacrifice and. you know I had two friends of mine die. and I've talked about this. publicly before and I you know I'm. segueing a little bit but the the.

suffering of the American intelligence. officer is something that for their. service of their country and we're not. talking about this subject obviously. people don't realize the kind of. trauma uh Intel professionals go through. so first of all I had a friend six. months after I got back from Afghanistan. his name is Captain Dave lion there's a. park in Peterson space for bace named. after him. I remember see us cough and come off the. plane stuff so um you know I saw him die.

that that [ __ ] me up for a number of. years and that's what you know gave me a. lot of my my problems that I ended up. dealing with but then I had um I. remarried uh and then my best man uh. Captain Ben heiney Air Force. intelligence officer Air Force Special. Operations Command I've known him for. years he's my closest friend you know. best man at my wedding and then 28 Days. Later. uh unfortunately he suffered from. depression and it was you know as his. best friend he didn't even confide in me.

you know I remember chitchatting him to. chatting with him on the phone one day. about 28 days after he was my best man. and I he didn't tell me anything was. wrong with him and a few hours later he. walked in his backyard and shot himself. and you know I gave his eulogy um at his. at his. um at his funeral and that really uh you. know really affected me in in and with. what Ben. experienced uh which I can't get into. all the stuff he did obviously but.

imagine uh being the guy that decides. that that. person is bad fire the. haire that person is now pink Mist. they're dead you just played god let's. go back to you know the wife and kids at. the end of your shift and a lot of that. I you know I did the same kind of thing. I did a lot of stuff overseas involved. interrogation. and you know Ops that where you had to. decide if a Target is bad enough where.

you're going to affect their life. forever and their family's life forever. and uh and that's the silent suffering. of Intel professionals especially during. the global war and Terror which was you. know 21 years or so and um you. know the the trauma and the mental. health problems that. people get from being an Intel. professional in operational environment. people think like special oper ators. Pilots Etc you know army marines Ground. Pounders and they certainly have their.

own trauma but it's this weird. Insidious am I in a video game is this. real trauma that intelligence. professionals and I just wanted to. highlight that during this show because. that was just a near and dear to myself. uh so people are aware of the service of. military intelligence and civilian. intelligence professionals. that have to make really tough decision. for the country that um affect people's. lives on the receiving end you know so.

was there a concern while you're going. through all this that if you didn't come. out with this that we would be stuck in. the same sort of. loop for a long long period of time and. no one would ever have access to this. stuff that they would continue yep yeah. and that you nailed it on the head is. you know I think my generation once it. changed the under 40 generation their. parents went to war their old Brothers. went to war we're fighting two dangerous. proxy wars right now which is.

extremely. um stupid I know the better way of. saying it be quite Frank and you I give. you my own assessment on that if you. want but I like we're in this loop we're. not progressing in a healthy way uh as a. civilization you know it's becoming more. divisive whether you're on the left or. the right you know people aren't even. looking up all they care about is Tik. Tok you know we're creating potentially. dangerous artificial intelligence you. know I even saw that in my government.

service and I think humanity is kind of. stuck right now and we need to change. and this subject is like one of the. only. unifying ontologically shocking but I. would think generally unifying topics. where where if announced by you know the. Us and other you know major powers that. have knowledge in a in a controlled. manner that this could change Humanity. for the better. make us look inside ourselves become. less divisive and Care maybe a little.

less about superficial things so uh so. that's kind of my philosophical. motivation uh to do what I did and uh. and you're confronted with one of the. biggest mysteries in in human history. yeah which is are we alone and it seems. like at least some people have the. answer to that 100% I mean the people I. talked to certainly did and they had. close personal knowledge and the Intel. reports I read you know literally.

indicated that as well like I talked. about. earlier uh and it just so it's like this. cast system I call it dudes with seci. clearances do not have an embargo on. reality so it's a cast system of you. know people in government and outside of. government in the industrial complex. that run this stuff under little. oversight and you know I remember some. of the people who denied access they. were like you know you know I don't know. what you're talking about but if I did.

why would you have a need to know and. I'm like well why did you have a need to. know you're just some multistar. general right you're a human being. you're a human being you're not better. than me I mean who determines need to. know on a humanistic. question um it's like basic fact of life. why do you why are we classifying fact. of life uh at this day and age in 23. it's insane and the answer to that would. be National Security yeah it's obtuse.

National Security right so like why we. classify stuff it's called executive. order. 13526 right. section 1.4 sections E and F are why we. classify science stuff why we classify. nuclear stuff it's like a oneliner it's. very vague and and you saying this is. these basic facts should be classif ifed. are you saying that this fits in this. bill and you know and and you notice the. Schumer Amendment if anybody reads it.

awkwardly calls out the atomic energy. act in 1954 right and they're basically. treating this as nuclear secrets because. it gives. off you know nuclear radiation because. if you look at the ultra vague. definition of special nuclear material. which is section 51 the atomic energy. act in 1954 it says anything that gives. off a sizable amount of atomic energy.

literally that's what it says well. what's sizable and what legal gymnastics. are you saying this stuff which is. obviously not a well who knows maybe it. is nuclear weapon and you're saying this. is a US nuclear secret you're trans. classifying it into a nuclear secret. which I understand maybe at first why. they did that and not admonishing the. hard decisions that presidents and other. folks did many years ago when this was.

more of an enigma and we wanted to like. lock it down figure it out and then see. what we're going to do but there's never. been a disclosure plan I always ask that. like to these super senior people I've. talked to was there a plan any kind of. plan at all and they're like no never we. tried the muddy to Waters back in there. you know tried to put it out there and. test the populace but. um you know there was never any cachent. plan I mean people think the government.

is like this fine oiled machine they. have plans for everything well I guess. sort of but like it's not I mean look at. the war on terrorism we left uh. Afghanistan no General officer Mattis. Petraeus uh mistal I call them the. failed generals people loud them but. really themselves and the Obama. Administration Bush Administration ex. you know Trump whatever um nobody had a. cogent plan for success and we were. fighting people who are much less of an.

adversary than like our one of our peers. or de peers and we couldn't even win. that war like what the [ __ ] are we doing. but these protracted endless. Wars let's be real it's good for the. industrial complex right so and and I'm. not like admonishing the whole. industrial complex for the record you. know we need National lethality we need. weapons to kill bad guys because there's. evil people in the world but you got to. control. you know some of it though well that's a. part of the problem with people that. have secrets it's like once you have.

secrets and part of your identity is the. holder of those secrets and part of the. culture of. these these industries is that they they. are the ones that have the access to. that yeah and I saw that in conventional. really black programs I was a part of in. my career it was almost like um you got. that secret Society Vibe where it's like. if you're a career government. servant uh your salary is not that great.

but knowledge is your currency and what. makes you special what rice bow do you. control and I remember getting read into. some stuff that like it was like the. president and very limited number of. people getting read into and I was one. of them because I was operating a. certain thing for a certain op and oh. you're part of the club you know like. only 30 people are cleared or whatever. and I'm like. the f I don't get off on this [ __ ] it's. so weird but like these like lifers and.

I I hate to you know talk so matter of. fact about it but like it just it's kind. of disgusting to me because it's like. this like uh it's weird it's just like a. weird like nostic cultish thing and you. know I Liv that Community for 14 years. of my career and people really do enjoy. having information that other people. don't have access to I was like I got a. secret and like that's why I whistleblow. okay so I know this it's real I know. they we're not alone we have stuff no. [ __ ] am I going to sit on my ass for 30.

40 years I'm an old man I look back like. ah I had that secret I knew about it but. I didn't do anything I didn't CH so I. couldn't just keep that secret because I. thought it was just perverse and wrong. that the people don't even at least get. to know the basics it's insane so when. it comes to these I'm going to bring it. back to these these actual entities yeah. do we know or we do have an. understanding of how many of them we're.

talking about and the variety of them. well yeah there is a variety and we have. a certain number of of different things. um but the like total numbers of like. what's interacting with us on Earth I. mean nobody knows that and I mean but. there's an understanding of some that. they do believe are interacting with us. and there's a variety in terms of. there's there's variables yeah I I. talked to people who are familiar with. uh the biological analysis and. everything so we have some idea not a.

complete picture because it's like you. know you know you're looking at it it's. like well I don't even understand the. physio physiology at all it's like what. the heck it's like way different right. so um we have at least description of. this. physiology yeah no I was in I was in the. room. when. uh I got be careful I don't want to uh I. was in Washington DC with a very uh. number of senior people that work for.

members of Congress put it that. way um when I was still in government. and I brought the people who worked on. that stuff to the hill I mean this is. why the members were so confident to put. out the Schumer Amendment and stuff and. and I was like please explain and um. they went into all those details and. stuff and I remember you know some some. of the professional staff members were. like whoa like like they were like in.

g-lock right because I mean it like a. total World. bubble um got burst right there for a. lot of people and so we we have some. idea it's not a complete picture I mean. it's just like but you're not even. bringing in the right the right people. like I think about my friend and. colleague uh Dr Gary Nolan which I. started the um Soul Foundation nonprofit. with I mean he's like. you know Nobel level biologist. virologist like he's the guy that you. would want on it but he's not on it so I.

think we can make a lot of progress in. our understanding once again if if this. is more broadly studied um in an open. environment you aware of the Nix and. Jackie gleon story vaguely uh I I stayed. away from euphology because I had these. contemporary people that were inside I. could check all their credentials where. they worked. Etc um but I I'm Vaguely Familiar where.

what was it like Nixon brought Jackie. gleon to some facility and showed him. some stuff or something like that yeah. supposedly that's the story and it's. very it's very hard to determine the. origin of the story or whether or not. it's real it came from there's a story. about one article that was supposedly. published was it Vanity Fair something. like that and uh you can't find the. story but Jackie gleon by all accounts. was obsessed with UFOs and uh even built. a home in Upstate New York that looked.

like a flying saucer oh really yeah this. this is the house he had this house. constructed supposedly after he had this. uh meeting with uh Nixon so Nixon. supposedly they were. drinking Jackie gleon and ni Nixon are. tying one on and Nixon's like you want. to see some [ __ ] and uh they fly uh to. wherever this base is and he shows them. these Frozen biological entities and. this retrieved vehicle and then Jackie.

gleon becomes a fanatic obviously that's. crazy yeah I I mean not crazy but but uh. that's interesting that a president. would do that to like an uncleared. celebrity friend of his like oh let me. just show you the most sensitive [ __ ]. our country has just I don't know it's. kind of crazy to me people are obsessed. with celebrity you know there's even. world leaders you know. kings and queens of you know they've. always been obsessed with famous people. and Jackie gleon at the time was.

incredibly famous and also beloved right. yeah so this is my pal and uh I'm. drunk you want to see some [ __ ] you know. I get it I want to hang out with Nixon. if that's how he was like mans is. probably wild I bet he was like that in. a lot of ways you know I mean Hunters. Thompson famously recalled his uh yeah. there's the two of them meeting together. uh famously called uh sitting in the. backseat of a limo with Nixon talking. about football and he was like God if I.

didn't think he was a piece of [ __ ] I. actually kind of like them oh that's. funny we're just talking football yeah. you know um look nobody in that job. nobody as a president is going to be. loved by everyone and I'm sure Nixon has. positive qualities and you know if. Jackie gleon liked him I'm a giant. Jackie gleon fan he's probably probably. fun to hang out with yeah and if you're. drunk and you know you're the president. and also so we're talking about the. 1970s right so this is a different world. you know like even if you tell anybody.

who the [ __ ] going to believe you you. don't have you can't get on Tik Tok like. what are you gonna do how you gonna get. this information out well exactly and. that's kind of how you know my personal. opinion you know how the program was. protected right make make it crazy right. so if anybody leaks anything um or you. know has unauthorized disclosure yeah. people are going to think you're [ __ ]. nuts of course yeah yeah um but there. are actual reports that we have.

biological. remains yes oh yes yes how. many it's up there uh as well just like. with the they vary there's different. kinds do we have an understanding you. don't have to answer where of where they. came. from nobody I talked to exposed any. specific origin to me we may know that. but I'm not aware of anything so I don't. know are there reports of some kind of.

interaction with these things where. they're giving information or discussing. the the problems of humanity and. possible solutions or explaining why. they're. here interactions was a sensitive. subject that. my uh interview subjects did not want to. get into. uh I suppose that there's probably. detailed documentation of those. interactions that goes into a lot of the.

stuff you're asking I truly don't even. know the answer to a lot of that so but. is there discussions amongst these. people that there have been these sort. of there was water cooler talk with some. people I talked to on the program I love. water cooler talk yeah they're like hey. bro guess what I overheard in some weird. meeting you know right and but that is. the problem with that is it's like. secondary information. anet. unless it like cool well you're coming.

to the Inspector General or I'm going to. at least give them your name uh because. that's what you told me and then. obviously I did that so those people who. physically were there were on the. program did the thing I brought to the. Inspector General um is are there. discussions of interactions with live. beings uh there was some water cooler. talk about that kind of thing but but. you know I I don't even want to get into. it because it's like uh there were some. details provided to me but it's like.

it's secondary and I I don't know if. that's like the telephone game and I. don't know if it was hyperbolized in any. way um you know in the break room so to. speak so I just I'm so anal about making. sure what I say is accurate I don't you. know I don't know so yeah do we have an. understand I mean if if there have been. these discussions do we have. understanding of when they first took. place yeah some specific events were. mentioned to me and I provided that.

information in a classified setting yeah. and how far back did they. go pretty far back it's pretty weird. yeah so well one of the stories from. Roswell that's fascinating to me is that. Eisenhower had the wreckage flown to. rright Patterson Air Force Base in two. separate jets in case one of them. crashed there has been some public. testimony. um so General debose there were some. oldtimers that at least uh you know did.

some videos in like the 90s like I'm I'm. briger General Exxon here's what I heard. whatever I mean that's out there in the. the open source so yeah yeah and there. was always that discussion of Hangar. 18 right you ever heard Hanger 18. there's a lot of hangers but that's the. what for whatever reason I think it was. maybe a movie was there a movie well you. know you know what's funny speaking of. uh Senators being denied there's a video. in the late 80s of Senator Barry.

Goldwater of Goldwater nickol act famed. right he was a two star general in the. Air Force Reserve and uh like literally. this video is like on YouTube it's like. hard to find though but um uh Jesse. Michaels on American Alchemy put. together I think a short video yesterday. and there's like a section in there. where he actually has that Goldwater. interview but General Goldwater is like. yeah one day I called Curtis lame who's. a very famous Air Force General and was. like General I heard that there's this. room that you you know have UFO material.

and uh Barry Goldwater exposes in this. interview like yeah and lame got matter. matter than hell at me and told me never. to [ __ ] ask ask about that again I. might have added the f word in there. just for um for fun for fun but uh yeah. it's bad was in the military too long um. my wife tells me to be careful with my. language all the time around my. nephew but but even Barry Goldwater knew. that we had UFO material he asked.

General lame when he was in the Air. Force and general lame basically told. him to [ __ ] off and that is a literal. interview you can Google so a lot of. this like. people um disclosing fact of has really. been out in the vernacular for a long. time but nobody really cared cuz well. everybody was just kind of like. desensitized from the whole subject and. thought it was wacky and I'm not the. first former government official to. confirm that you have Goldwater and all.

all these other Harry Reid who made the. same disclosure to the New Yorker a. month after I talked to him in personel. yeah melon has said stuff uh Lou alzando. said uh you know he believes we have. material on I think it was Tucker. Carlson a couple years ago um so there's. certainly been other officials now I'm. just trying to spike the football and. take it all the way to the end zone here. and and luckily we have a congress. that's mostly motivated minus Mike.

Rogers and Mike Turner you're on you're. getting cool in your stockings I'm gonna. make sure your office gets cool and. um uh you know they they want change too. and they realize it's time for a change. and uh presumably you know Chuck. Schumer's talked to you know Jake. Sullivan and president uh Biden and you. know who's in the white house right now. is John. podesta he is the uh green energies are. or something like that in the white.

house but you know John. podesta uh um shout out to John podesta. in the white house he has an ax to grind. on this issue too because remember he. tweeted at the end of Obama's second. term you know my biggest failure was not. to have. Obama release the UFO file and made the. same kind of statement with Clinton so. certainly if Mr pesta is listening and. the White House you know I'm here to. help I you know I hope that you're. championing this within the Executive. Office of the President and um you know.

the other speaking of people like. Goldwater who who've made some weird non. Seer kind of admissions there's. a John stasel interview of Mike Pompeo. the former CIA. director about two years ago or so you. can find it online where Pompeo talks. about the JFK file and like dismisses it. or something about like there's no. Boogeyman here but then he he quickly. says oh I've seen the UFO file to and we.

have bigger problems but for at least. the way it was edited John stel didn't. even follow up uh at least the way the. Final Cut was I'm like dude if I was. John stel i' been like what does that. mean what do you mean Mike Pompeo you've. seen the UFO file and we have bigger. problems and UFO file the way I. interpret that is a uh long. existing file or briefing document or. something that he had access to so I.

think I think the former CIA director. Mike Pompeo should probably clarify what. he said two years ago next uh if anybody. interviews him next ask Mike that. question what did he mean yeah yeah we. have bigger problems well we certainly. have bigger problems in terms of our. current existence specifically with what. you were talking about earli the proxy. wars and collapse of society as we know. it which it seems. yeah I mean the I mean I feel for the. Ukrainian and the Israeli people you. know I'm not taking any particular side.

uh but. certainly people forget us Aid in these. wars what's the like most expensive. thing if you studied phases of conflict. it's the Reconstruction cost after the. conflict so are we in it for. like triple digit billions like the war. and Terror um I mean certainly the. Israeli conflict is a great distraction. because you know like Russia is very. tight with Iran right and personal. opinion you know this just my own. personal opinion but I you know I'm sure.

they commiserated and was like can you. start a two-front war because we would. like to win in Ukraine and uh this will. distract the us because Israel is a. longtime you know Middle East Ally so. it's brilliant it's brilliant public. opinion I mean the the The Virtue. signalers on social media have. essentially completely forgotten about. Ukraine you it's it's all about Israel. and Palestine yeah you don't even see it. and um and I understand you know what.

the National Security Council. determination was that they've discussed. publicly where there's kind of like. trying to drain the Russia's you know. military capability. and annexation of Ukrainian territory. because they don't want Russia spheres. sphere of influence to further enter. that caucus region and stuff but yeah. it's funny like you said it's like you. don't even talk about Ukraine it's all. about Israel now and the which is a. horrible conflict on both sides like. it's just it's unfortunate so without a.

doubt yeah um it's that was a very. interesting statement though that we. have bigger problems so even if we do. this seems to be like a. a this is such a human question because. it's one of the biggest mysteries. obviously you know there's the fmy. Paradox where are they right if you you. look out and if you look out into the. cosmos you've ever gone a clear night. and you look out and you realize those. are all stars and those stars are all. surrounded by planets and there's.

literally hundreds of billions of them. the Drake equation you can calculate. what probable sentient life and I've. been an amateur astronomer since I've. been a kid and I've. never uh crazy enough I've never seen. anything remarkable I've seen some stuff. that could have been ball lightning and. some satellite passes that weren't. registered uh on line um when you can. you could actually check to see if. there's going to be like an aridium. flare or something like that and that. maybe that was a satellite pass maybe.

not but I've never seen in my personal. life never seen anything weird uh and. it's funny you mentioned the fmy Paradox. and it's like well where are they and. okay well you know if you're sentient. life you're certainly going to have. sophisticated cover concealment and. deception techniques it goes back to. like what jacqu Val's work is where you. know the phenomenon presenting itself in. different ways but also I live in the. mountains of Colorado right so there is. a mountain lion Den about 10 miles from.

my house uh in Colorado literally um you. know I am there are lower predatory. sentients I'm higher PR predatory. sentience and I'm using this as a device. or an analogy for nhi and. us well I don't on a day-to-day basis I. don't care what a mountain line is doing. I may hike in that area area to. explore but dayto day I'm afraid of it. and I don't care and think about what.

humans might be unfortunately to some of. these higher sentients where this monkey. has a nuke holy [ __ ] keep them in the. cage we don't want to go anywhere near. them and so people think that there. would be some kind of open contact with. some higher sentient it is either. visiting Earth or From Another Dimension. or whatever the origin is but they. probably don't. care they're probably neutral at best. and maybe actually fearful of us in some.

sense or were the progyny of you know. personal opinion progyny of some. experiment in the it's almost like. living in the Matrix but it's not like. an actual simulation it's like we want. the simulation to go we don't want to. intercede because we want to see what. you know Homo sapiens sapien 2.0 is. going to do after the great flood or. something like that right yeah yeah. that's one of the more fascinating uh. ideas is that we're some sort of a. product of genetic engineering I.

honestly would not be. surprised I don't know that to be true. but we're so different than everything. else is here so different so beyond. different I mean there's not another. primate that is even reasonably close I. mean if you you there's um speculation. amongst primatologists and there's a not. even speculation they believe that. chimpanzees in particular have entered. into the Stone Age so that they're at. the beginning of the Stone Age they're.

using tools you know and there's. obviously some learn Behavior like. there's some footage of orangutans using. Spears to hunt fish with oh interesting. yeah have you ever seen that no I'm not. it's cool as [ __ ] there's a Rutan that's. hanging on a branch over a river or a. body of water and he's stabbing at fish. with a spear huh which is incredible I. mean they're using tools I mean we know. they use tools to extract um um you know.

termites and the like look at that I. mean oh that's crazy how crazy is that I. mean he's clearly hunting MH I mean he's. going fishing in Borneo I mean that that. is you know at the very least a distant. cousin of us some you know intelligent. primate that is figur out a way to use. tools how long would it take an. orangutan to become a human being how. many millions of years are we talking. about of evolution but it seems to be.

that process has started interesting but. why are we so [ __ ] different than. everything else yeah like are we a. product of darwinian evolution or what. is it punctuated equilibrium is. obviously another theory and I'm not a. anthropologist by any means you know. watched some Netflix episodes but yeah. me too lot of YouTube but yeah we we. seem to be oddly advanced advanced and. we seem to just possess other skills I. mean it goes back to like the Stargate. program right you know with the.

Declassified by Clinton and sensibly. canceled I guess in. 96 you know where you had people trained. in remote viewing and and like there was. feedback loops to confirm what they saw. was real and um you either satellite. imagery or human sources where they. sketched out a room of where there's. hostages and the they got a hostage out. and they're like and this is a real. story actually and they're and they're. like did you have a source in that room. how do you know where all the corridors. were and everything I was like no. actually uh Pat price uh remote viewed.

you and he like what the [ __ ] so there's. something going on there and and that's. like uh Gary Nolan you know has studied. a lot of this stuff very famously he's. pointed out the cod8 panum in the brain. right it's this horseshoe shaped thing. in the middle of your brain that if uh. he's done MRIs and CAT scans and I'm. hope I'm not butchering his work Gary. might you know slap me later. but uh it lights up people who have. those kind of skills they have like an.

overactive CTI panum in the brain and. it's like okay well is it a transceiver. of some sort I'm guessing that's the. case is it an emerging property of human. beings as we have all exactly and we're. seeing just a few human beings that have. this stuff and then if if it is a. transceiver where's the information is. it in a higher spatial Dimension or how. are they extracting how are they able to. basically. be um uh non-locality right they're able. to like project themselves somehow their.

Consciousness to a and this is a. Declassified example from Stargate a. Russian missile. base sketch the crane and the where the. silos are what the status is you know. satellite comes over takes a picture and. it's exactly the way they sketched it. how' they do that like it's certainly. real real because there is a feedback. loop now there's a lot of charlatans in. the psychic space and all that but like. at least that government program and. I've talked to you know HOV and people.

who actually ran that program at SRI for. the CIA then Dia in the Army and that. seems to men who's uh staring at Goats. right the George Clooney movies the. famous movie based on the Stargate. program seems to be legit as far as we. can measure from a feedback perspective. what was the explanation for the. discontinuation of that program oh gosh. I'm not a scholar on that that something. Russell tar or halav or one of those.

guys could explain if it was just like. got caught up in the bureaucracy or or. what I don't. remember yeah yeah so the idea of that. being an emergent property of uh of. human beings as we evolve is always been. fascinating to me because there's. there's certainly something that goes on. with human communication other than um. we make sounds that represent objects. and physical things and that the other.

person interprets those sounds and. understands it there's communication. between human beings that's oh acoustic. communication like the symbol rate if. you will is really slow like if you were. able to consciously communicate you know. AKA You Know The Hokey term like. telepathy. right um and it's funny because that's. uh what a lot of people spouse that have. had you know alleged contacts right a. lot of the people that Dr John Mack at. Harvard studied over the years where.

they felt like they were getting hit. with like a QR code it was like instant. knowledge or they heard like somebody. speaking to them nonverbally in some way. that they couldn't even conceptualize. through you know acoustic communication. uh or talk if you will and it's the same. thing like um book Proof of Heaven by Dr. eban Alexander MD I remember reading. when I was in Afghanistan and I was like. this is a crazy experience this medical. doctor has necrotizing fat fasciitis of. the brain is a near-death experience and.

he gets this like crazy like the. feelings of love other stuff it's a. really interesting book it's like a. scientific take on a doctor's own. near-death experience but when he came. back and somehow the fasciitis didn't. eat away his brain and he was. cognitively normal he tried to write. down what information or facts of the. universe he learned during his nde and. uh he couldn't even put it in English it. was like crazy he didn't know how to.

translate it into our language it was. just there was no like adjectives if you. were adverbs Etc that could describe the. knowledge that he knew like natively. when he had that near-death experience. it's a really fascinating book um and he. talks about the disease he had and his. uh physiological condition at the time. really interesting what was he able to. discern learn from that like what was. what was the overall message yeah it was. like this like the you know there's the. message of Love which that's positive.

but it was like this interconnectedness. everybody is kind of connected in a way. that. um they don't really realize I mean you. think about this is get really trippy uh. lot of thoughts with people who are. smarter than me I like to talk to them. about this kind of stuff where if you're. say a m you know a higher dimensional. sentience right the Act of Creation so. Act of Creation for 3D beings is having. a baby right it's producing another. three-dimensional object well if you're.

in five-dimensional space or even I. guess four-dimensional physical space. what if Act of Creation is creating. other conscious realities in other. universes and the Act of Creation is. creating the universe. where you me Jamie whatever we might be. connected to the same. um I'll call it Universal Consciousness. or a higher. dimensional sentient life force or life.

form I know that sounds like really out. there but when you think about it um. there's a lot of other theologies out. there that basically espouse that I have. a very good friend of mine who's um PhD. level kind of higher up in the Mormon. church and basically the Mormon. theology is kind of like that the. Mormons say you were once with God or. like God but then you were sent down to. like a lower plane of existence and. that's literally what I'm talking about. right now but just in a secular. sense so.

maybe uh yeah we're all created beings. from and this you know this doesn't like. hurt Christian theology whatever it's. actually kind of enforcing the fact. there's a Creator and we're literally. created in the image of a Creator. literally and that's kind of what life. really is it's like think about it's. like a weird 3D plus time temporal. sensory EXP exp erience for a higher. dimensional sentience you're here to. experience time in this weird linear. fashion and to.

experience yourself divorc from yourself. to gain knowledge and to report back is. maybe what life is and that's just kind. of my own personal. theology uh as a summation of just uh. during Co I was really bored and that's. what I was looking at well I I. extrapolate that to the the creation of. AI and I think if you think about human. beings as something that creates things. um I think ultimately we create a new.

life well exactly what if higher. sentience is creating some kind of. artificial intelligence you know call it. like a commander data from Star Trek. NextGen right MH not even really it's. made in the image of the Creator in some. sense but it's not even and that's what. might get sent into these like uh long. endurance you know missions and of. course you know people are like well why. would they you know come here so far uh. to crash Etc or are they crashing on.

purpose do you know that for a fact or. are they crashing by accident and what. if they're like um like Von noyman. replicating probes right you can Google. that but you know what if they're just. throwaway which vanum and pro probes are. just like throwaway spacecraft like yeah. they're just we send it out we don't. really care what the mission success is. or they're seeding us or as Jack valet. says it's like you know here's the key. can you unlock the cage kind of thing. right yeah so and it seems that it would.

be a long I mean if you think about. biological evolution so long lengthy. process and if ultimately that led us to. the creation of a technology that's far. superior in terms of its capabilities of. understanding and thinking that seems to. be what's happening and that's one of. the reasons why so many people are. concerned about the term artificial. intelligence is a very strange term. because it's not artificial it's. intelligence it's silicon based that a.

carbon based right yeah it's just it. doesn't have Blood and Tissue and cells. but it has something that's Superior it. also has something that's much more. scalable right we're we have a very. obvious biological limitation in terms. of evolution you know if you look at. Evolution we turn back to the arang tans. that are fishing they're obviously. learning new things and those new. properties from those these things we. assume will be encoded in their genetics. and in past to their children do you. have children no I have three dogs we.

went the fluffy I'm a fluffy dad the. problem is dogs don't learn from well. they do but one of the most bizarre. things about children is that they have. properties that are clearly. uh it's hard to say right um because my. children obviously have the example of. my wife and myself and they obviously. see a lot of how we live our life and. you know uh discipline and hard work and. creativity and all those things but.

there's also they seem to have gifts. that are they seem to be clearly genetic. yeah and uh artistic gifts that just. seem extraordinary that are unusual that. I had when I was younger that I was an. illustrator I have a a young daughter. that's just extraordinarily good at art. really you used to illustrate yeah yeah. that's what I wanted to do I wanted to. be a comic book illustrator oh. interesting interesting yeah um but then. I have this other daughter that's super.

gifted athletically like she can learn. things really quickly it's extraordinary. it's and it's weird and and also this. drive that she has I had a drive from. poverty and from you know a lot of like. stuff that was wrong with my childhood. that seemed to be I had this need to. prove myself she doesn't have any of. those problems but she also has this. insane drive that it's weird it's a. weird discipline it's extraordinary that.

seems to be very different than most. kids and I I just think that's an. emerging genetic I think there's. something encoded in whatever you are as. a human that as you replicate and as you. have children they have that they have. some of that yeah you know and I think. that is this process this biological. evolutionary process with humans but. it's there's so much chaos there's so. much I mean you could breed with a dumb.

person you can find a a hot dumb person. and have a baby with them now your kids. [ __ ] and then we see that like this. obviously some people are just born with. brains that just don't work that well. it's just like I'm sure you've met some. dull-minded people and you try to talk. to them about things and there's no one. there right so okay good luck and good. luck with whatever children you have and. whatever what what what are they going. to have well gen yeah we're genetically. encoding artificial intelligence now. kind of I think that's where you were. going yeah what I'm going with like.

these biological limitations that we. have it's it's very clear that we're. essentially dealing with a Model T as. opposed to a Tesla which is just. insanely Superior to these ancient. Vehicles yeah we we create technology. I've always said this if you looked at. the human race if you were some sort of. an outside Observer and you stumbled. upon this this thing that occupies this. planet this this apex predator of this. planet he would say what is this thing. doing well it's making technology all.

the other things that it does it does. all these other things it do all but. what do these things generally Mo. motivate what do they move towards they. move towards the advancement of. technology and Innovation that is a. constant aspect of human beings if you. trace us back to the earliest. civilizations to what we have today. things constantly prove unless something. goes horribly wrong unless there's some. sort of a natural disaster or some sort. of a you know genocide if something.

doesn't happen to these creatures what. do they do they consistently make better. things well that if you extrapolate if. you follow that to its natural. progression well what is that going to. get to well once they've invented. computers and once they've invented. devices and once they've invented things. that enhance their personal. understanding of the world around them. which we already have now with phones we. already have with the internet we. already have with our ability to. communicate with each other we the the. newest latest uh Android phones that are. coming out will translate natively on.

your phone in real time in conversation. so you could be speaking Portuguese to. me I would hear it in English on a phone. call which is [ __ ] wild it's crazy. that's like Universal translator Star. Trek literally yes literally literally. well that that is a real thing now. without having to use Google Translate. it's native to the latest Android. operating. system you you could Auto if you just. sit down and said well where's that.

going well it's going to something way. more sophisticated and way more capable. than we are biologically with our. limitations the LI our monkey bodies we. are the ancestors or the the the the the. people that emerged from that distant. cousin that orangutan that's using a. stick to hunt fish we're we're going. this direction what would be the most. logical way we would completely. accelerate that we create something that. does what we do but does it way better.

yeah it's almost like to permanently. Harbor our Consciousness eventually. right right and that kind of makes sense. it does make sense and there's a sort of. understanding of that that leads to this. fear of our demise that everyone you. know elon's openly discussed this this. Sam Alman and I were talking about it. what open AI is doing what chat GPT 4. versus chat GPT 5 which is going to be. insanely Superior well what is chat GPT. 15 going to do you know is that going to.

be the president of the world you know. like what are we going to bypass. government and just say you know it's. it's obviously like this Administration. is incredibly corrupt and flawed and. influenced by the military-industrial. complex it's not good for the world it's. not good for the environment we need. something that is far superior that. doesn't have all these motivations what. would that be that would be artificial. intelligent creator that we or or. creation rather that we use to govern. life yeah I mean that sounds nuts but I.

think that's probably a better solution. than humans with all of our [ __ ]. flaws and issues and greed and envy and. all the things that we have that would. be a better version of it but what are. we saying then are we saying that we're. we're programming like empathy into it. though you know like probably not. probably not which is terrifying. but we will become Obsolete and or we. will merge and if we merge it will. completely change what we are MH and I.

think that's very likely what's going to. take place I think the initial stages. will be some sort of a merging with. technology and then from that merging it. will essentially will realize well why. are we even [ __ ] around like this. this new thing is so Superior and it. doesn't have all the pitfalls it doesn't. have all the problems it's not. shortsighted it's not going to drain the. ocean of fish so that we we can make. sushi it's going to do something it's. going to be far more far more aware of.

all of the different effects of each. individual act and how we affect. everything around us and what is net. positive and what is net negative and. how to avoid all these things I I I. really firmly believe that we are this. biological cat pillar that is making a. cocoon to create the electronic. butterfly and we don't even know what. we're doing while we're doing it we're. just doing it and I think materialism is.

also baked into that one of the main. problems with human beings in terms of. like the Ridiculousness of our actions. we're so materialistic and people are. constantly wanting to get the newest. latest greatest thing what's the. motivation behind that other than social. status well the motivation is that. that's what that's what fuels Innovation. if you do like if we all just stopped. right now it's hey you know what iPhone. 15 is pretty [ __ ] dope we don't need. to make new iPhones let's just keep. fixing those and just like exist the way.

we are right now and let's clean up the. air let's clean up the ocean let's clean. up the sea and clean up the rivers and. clean up the the forest like let's just. fix the Earth and then no we don't do. that no I want iPhone 16 you know when. when is the iPhone going to be able to. communicate completely just with. satellites we don't have to worry about. cell phone sign it's almost like a drug. addiction right they did studies where. people receiving in text messages is the. dope Rush too so it's like it's almost. like an. artificial drug addiction you're fueling. because you want the more responsive.

Tech more integrating with your make. easier so you can get your fix quicker. and more efficiently or something like. that I don't know right and why well I. mean why would [ __ ] staring at a. stupid cell phone give you a dopamine. Rush well it does it does yeah I'm not a. biologist you get addicted to your. goddamn phones and then why would it be. that we would innovate and create things. like uh Instagram and Tik Tok that are. insanely addictive to the point where. you look down and you've spent three.

hours staring at nothing nonsense like. what what why is that well that it. ensures continual use of this device. until it lures you into this ultimate. integration well it's right well they. there's people at well meta I guess now. or Facebook you know where they actually. have a whole team of scientists on how. to make their apps more addictive right. so. demons yeah [ __ ] demons yeah I don't. I don't use social media I have never. tweeted in my life really that's amazing. I mean I have like a I used Facebook.

back in the day when it first it first. came out when I was going to college um. but I yeah I don't don't have Instagram. I've never tweeted in my life I I don't. intend to because you don't want to get. sucked into that mind virus which is. like uh people responding you and you. have to feel like you have to respond. back I don't even I don't even touch it. I'm very aware of those traps so I don't. I don't do that I don't I used to but. many years ago I stopped interacting. with people cuz I just realized like.

overall it's negative yeah like there's. positive aspects to it it's great for. people that like you and that are fans. it's great to that you're you're an. actual human that you interact. occasionally I comment on a post like. that's really awesome congratulations. that kind of stuff but then I get the. [ __ ] out of there and I don't read any. responses and I found that that's the. very best way to mitigate all the. negative aspects of social media but. then you're also dealing with algorithms. you're dealing with things that. recognize what makes you more likely to. engage and so those things are.

constantly showing you the things that. you engage and uh you know it's not. necessarily even positive it's just it's. just whatever you engage with that's. what's coming your way whether it could. be cool stuff like maybe you're just. like really into muscle cars and it. shows you a lot of muscle cars or it. could be like murder like I see a lot of. murder on Instagram it's [ __ ] crazy. yeah I'm a car guy so like my feed is. like oh do you ever think about this mod. for your Ford Bronco oh those lights. look nice I'm going to wire that [ __ ] up. next week you know so I get those too.

yeah it's bad yeah I have a problem with. that I have a a car problem yeah my wife. doesn't allow me to have the good stuff. anymore so I have to you know keep it. under a certain price well that's good. that's good I I'm more actually. interested in old stuff than I am in new. stuff you like a like rat rod stuff. right well I like muscle cars like very. specifically 1960s muscle cars those are. my favorite because what they are to me. is it's a toy that you could drive yeah. it's like a ride that gives me immense. pleasure to just drive around and it's.

really fun I don't even have to go fast. it's just going around in a 1970 chevel. just driving it it just it it's hard to. describe for someone who has never. experienced it but it's just uh it just. so engaging and it's like you're on this. drug yeah he. like it's like everything you feel all. of it and you're. engaging all of these senses yeah it's. very tactile very mechanical I yeah I.

totally understand that I mean the only. kind of old cars I like are like the. black Lincoln Lincoln Continental. suicide doors from The Matrix I remember. seeing that when I was like teen when. the Matrix came out I'm like that car is. badass it's like totally I want like to. have whatever Morpheus drove you know. they art they're essentially art it's. it's it's it's functional art like you. could it's a piece of art that you could. actually drive around and yeah and it. gives you this very bizarre sensation. but the point is that like that's not. most people most people want the newest.

latest greatest thing and this there's a. motivation to get the newest latest. greatest thing that I think if you just. follow that up to its logical conclusion. it's going to create life it's going to. create I mean how many films have been. made about this you know exmachina and. all all these different films that. that's right. that's what we're going to do we're. going to I mean there's no way we're not. going to do that it's it's if if I had a. bet on one thing if the human race.

doesn't get wiped out by a meteor or a. nuclear war we're gonna [ __ ] do that. we're going to make a life form 100% And. it's going to be almost instantaneously. able to figure out all the flaws in its. own personal programming and make a much. better version of itself if it if it's. sensient if it has the ability to make. decisions well I think we're close I. mean I think I saw some stuff there's. like a open AI Fiasco going on right now. and there's rumor that they might have. cracked artificial general intelligence. right AGI and that's oh Jesus that's.

frightening I mean there's like was it. um Sam ultman I think we were talking. about I think there's like a the board. of open AI there's some Shuffle I was. just yeah they just removed him brought. him right back well they removed him but. then apparently the shareholders like. what the [ __ ] are you doing and there. was so much outrage that they're trying. to bring him back like instantly so but. but Elon had a very good point like what. was the motivation behind that and when. you think about the implications for. Humanity as a whole cuz this is such an. emerging technology that's so.

overwhelmingly powerful what happened. like what's going on like I think this. is one of those things where like we. need to know like what was the. motivation behind your decision and if. it was that he was holding back. information about the actual creation of. artificial general intelligence that. it's already it's already happened and. that he's like hesitant because he's a. little Cy in how he talks about stuff. when I was talking to him about you. could tell it's like a little bit like.

he kind of knows yeah that he is at the. Forefront of this technology. that worst case scenario replaces. us yeah and you know going back to is a. program with any kind of empathy Etc. depending on if it handles critical I. guess the thing I saw in the government. cuz I did a lot of cyber stuff in my. career as as AI gets more advanced you. you know you create say offensive cyber.

tools that literally have a mind of. their own and if say theoretically you. release that on some Target and you. might not be able to touch that Target. again say it's a one time whoop you put. it in there well how do you control it. it's almost like Skynet in The. Terminator I hate to use that analogy. but like that was my fear when I was. working at certain agencies working on. offensive cyber tools I'm like oh my God. this is not good and then of course with. cyber right it's the attribution actor.

attribution is the biggest thing um how. do you know it was you know. hypothetically Russia that used the. Cyber weapon to attack you it could have. been another actor masquerading as that. fore power using tactics techniques. procedures uh IP proxy operations to. hide where it was coming from so it's. like you have uh non-kinetic. fires that can potentially create. mutually assured destruction because you. could take out critical infrastructure.

blow blow up the power grid Etc no. radiation but potentially no attribution. or con you know confuse the attribution. in such that you don't even know who to. go to war with it's like really scary to. me so it is scary yeah that's just my. own it's already happening with social. media I mean think about how many troll. Farms there are on social media that are. just stirring up discontent I mean and. it's an active program that we know that. Russia uses that is trying to undermine.

democracy and try to keep people. fighting with each other and it's been. very effective and if you look at social. media it's just [ __ ] chaos it's just. people yelling each other particularly. Twitter or X you know that's and. Facebook it's like a lot of what's going. on one of the studies showed that out of. the top 20 Christian sites that are on. Facebook 19 of them are run by Russian. Trump Farms so if we know that that on a. like relatively rudimentary scale scale. if you look at the uh impact of social.

media versus the impact of artificial. intelligence they're already doing that. they're already hiding who's responsible. and what's the what's the goal and how. to manipulate Consciousness and how to. manipulate uh influence and how people. think about things and what what the. public opinion on things are it's. already very effective. um you would imagine that a creation of. artificial intelligence would radically. accelerate that oh 100% then I remember.

the Deep fake stuff was a real problem. for my old Community because we're like. holy [ __ ] you could really fake some. stuff and you got to develop algorithms. to make sure you can analyze oh hey that. that is fake because you've seen some of. the deep fakes where it's like Obama or. Arnold Schwarzenegger yes the Tom Cruz. guy holy [ __ ] that is crazy like you're. going to be able to bring actors from. the dead back at this point you're going. to have like Carrie Grant uh you know. doing a musical or whatever you know. whatever you know Bruce Willis who has.

uh some sort of a degenerate. degenerative neurological condition sold. his likeness for the ability to make. commercials and all sorts of other. things like he's essentially saying he's. fading unfortunately and now he will. give this thing which is this property. which is Bruce Willis. famous and they will be able to create. versions of him starring in films oh and. certainly if you train an AI model just. like chat GPT you could actually get.

almost like what they would normally say. what their knowledge 100% And it's. almost like a having a permanent. historian too you could like you know if. you want to talk to Clint Eastwood about. his films in the 60s after Clint. Eastwood you know passes you know may he. live forever but like that would be it'd. be crazy it be really interesting but I. mean he might actually be able to give. you advice he might be your personal. adviser I know that' be cool I mean. that's probably one of the things that's. going to come out of this but when we. think about empathy we we also think.

about just human beings and the way we. communicate and interact with each other. empathy is very important and also. compassion and forgiveness all these. things are very important qualities. because we recognize that we're very. flawed but when you create something. that is not flawed yeah then the need. for empathy the need for all these. things that we attach to human emotions. and human reward systems they will. they'll no longer be a significant issue. because you're going to be dealing with.

something that operates on a higher. plane it might be the answer to all that. ails us which is so terrifying for us. because we recognize that what we derive. the joy that we derive from Love from. companionship from Friendship from. Community it's like a key component to. life on Earth for us but it's also. because we recognize that without that. we are the Mongols without that we're. Nazi Germany without that you know we're. Hamas we're whatever the [ __ ] we are.

that's that we recognize as being like. evil or dangerous or horrible about. humans the when we think about the worst. case scenario for human beings we always. think about things like the Holocaust we. think about what is the worst the worst. acts that human beings are capable of. with our current programming and our. biological flaws like what are the worst. things we could do terrible awful things. well if we don't have those problems if. we no longer have Envy we no longer have. greed we no longer have evil if we don't.

have any of those properties they don't. they don't exist anymore we just have. this new form of Consciousness that's. far superior that's an interesting. parallel because you have you know. you're no longer maybe Apex sentience if. you have artificial intelligence you. know governing certain things right. and I think that's also kind of this uh. psychological issue with this UAP issue. where we might not be the apex predator.

we have we may be that mountain lion and. uh and we're going to have to be. comfortable knowing that we're going to. be vulnerable there's people far. superior that may have malevolent. intentions maybe not I don't know and uh. almost be humbled the fact that like. sorry we're not the smartest of God's. creation and and that might be really. hard for a lot of people to process and. I think that's probably. certainly I would imagine one of the. deliberations they must have done years.

ago like oh we can't disclose because. you know people are not going to feel. comfortable in that world view 100% And. they're not and then I wonder if these. things that we're experiencing are the. natural progression of what happens when. you do Seed Life on planet or you do. accelerate biological life you do have. some sort of a genetic intervention. where you take this thing that has. emerging intelligence and you accelerate. it and that that thing will in turn with.

all of its desire for Innovation and. creativity and also all of its desire to. control resources and and have power and. have influence that it will eventually. lead to the creation of what we're. seeing that these things are the next. stage of this process and that maybe. we're dealing with one form of that next. stage but there's another stage that's a. million years more advanced than that.

that's far superior that doesn't even. have a biological limitation in terms of. physical space that it exists completely. in some other undetectable realm that is. not no longer no longer thinks about. biological limitations of life and death. and and communication it exists. completely in some other. that's what these are and always wonder. when there's aash or when there's a body. or when there's this that like and.

people saying well what if they're so. Advanced why are they crashing well hold. on what what are which which version are. we looking at we're we're not saying. there's one thing that's visiting us if. there's one thing that's visiting us and. we know where this one thing is we could. say oh well that thing it deals with a. completely different solar system that's. not as vulnerable it doesn't have. asteroid clouds it doesn't have all. these different things where it's like. it doesn't have a a planet that has. super volcanoes maybe life evolved in a. more stable environment and it allowed. it to get to a far greater technological.

level but not the ultimate yeah we might. be testing the extent of their. adaptability and like I said are they. crashing by accident right Mission. failure or on purpose right so and then. of course with the far distances and. everything I mean if they're traveling. here through some kind of space FaceTime. metric engineering construct you know um. uh the distances are not as vast as you. think right they could be going through. some kind of you know traversible. Wormhole or something like that where.

it's like a walk down the street for. them it's not you know a thousand Lighty. years well just think about. communication just are communication. used to be you had to get in front of. someone and you had to talk to them so. you had to know their language you had. to either non-verbal or verbal. communication you had to figure out a. way to say things to them that's no. longer the case obviously with this new. Android operating system it translates. but also the fact that you could have a. [ __ ] FaceTime call with someone in. Japan right now and you instantaneously.

can communicate back and forth which is. insane that's a vast distance but for us. it's like stupid it's like yeah easy. vast distance and instantaneous yeah I. mean uh I was just in Scotland and I was. FaceTiming my daughter back home yeah. [ __ ] crazy you're 9 hours by plane. and you're having instantaneous. communication which is wild [ __ ] but. that's just that's. [ __ ] that that that's like pong you. know that's uh that's a morse code.

that's like it's very primitive in terms. of what if you physically can be in. these places instantaneous yeah and why. why would we assume that that's not. eventually going to be on the menu yeah. it's just like the conventional. propulsion stuff for not using an Elon. Musk Starship to get here it's like they. doing something else you talked to. someone from the 1800s and you said. you're going to go to Nevada Jesus. Christ you know how far that is on a. wagon you know that's months man but no. you fly to Vegas it's two hours it's.

[ __ ] easy you know like we know that. now so why would we assume that there's. a limitation to that advancement I don't. think there is yeah and of course A. friend of mine Eric Weinstein. certainly spouses we don't even have the. right theoretical Frameworks right now. you know he get he he has own geometric. Unity Theory and he's way smarter than I. he's too smart but uh he's confusing. yeah he starts talking to you like it's. so funny if he calls me I'm like you got.

to call me in the morning after my 24. ounce Monster Energy drink or or I can't. even keep up man it's like uh yeah he's. he's on another level he has some his. he's got some unique theories himself. about where all this stuff is coming. from and uh it's it's all very very very. interesting and intriguing but also. makes sense all of it makes sense. including being visited you know I had. this conversation with Neil degrass. Tyson he's like why would they be. interested in us I'm like what the [ __ ]. are you talking about we're super.

interested yeah Neil I mean obviously. he's a fine science Communicator kind of. the success of successor of kind of. the uh Carl s kind of I think Carl was a. little bit more openminded yeah I like. Carl better by I'm more of a fan wish he. was still alive I love to smoke weed. with that guy he was really into weed oh. really yeah really really into I. remember my my aunt gave me Cosmos by. Carl Sean when I was in Middle School. and it was that book was from the 80s. but that book tripped me out and I was. like I want to study science and I read.

it was Brief History of Time by Stephen. Hawking and I read those two books when. I was like an eth grade and I was like. this is trippy I want to study astronomy. this is insane but I ultimately used. kind of my technical background to be a. spook you know for the government but uh. I still observe I have a big telescope. and I live like super dark skies in. Colorado and it's still that Boyhood. fascination of the cosmos now uh. ironically I found out about something. else that kind of confirms that the.

cosmos is uh not lifeless and you know. God paints with a broad brush as like. the Vatican has exposed a couple years. ago when they said this is okay with. their theology I have a theory that the. universe itself is. God I think that's like what I was. talking about with the you know. multi-dimensional Creator creating. universes yeah I think we have a very. limited idea of when we say God when God. created the heavens and like right right. but what is what what are we saying I. think it's the universe itself I think.

it's one thing and that this one thing. it seeks to create these things that. continually push the envelopes and may. be Gods themselves eventually I think if. you extrapolate from our ability versus. the ability of an amoeba and you. continue to move that along what does. that do well it's going to be able to. create universes there's already been. like theoretical papers that have been. written about the creation of other.

things like black holes other things. like a universe other like what what is. involved in the creation of a universe. what is involved in the Big Bang can. that be replicated well not now but if. AI becomes sensient and AI eventually. makes far greater versions of itself if. it keeps doing that like what what what. are the limits of its potential create. creates The Matrix L create yeah. literally literally creates a simulated.

environment that's indect IND. discernible you you can't tell the. difference between that and regular life. well maybe because there is no. difference maybe that is what I mean. that's the theory of simulation theater. yeah simulation Theory yeah familiar and. that that is a possibility cuz uh the. universe seems like a little too perfect. it's a little strange very created to me. so just like we're in the goldilock zone. perfect. temperature like it's how about the Big.

Bang itself like what what happened. something smaller than the head of a pin. for for no known reason becomes. everything yeah okay and what's the. universe expanding into it's like a. quantum foam or whatever the heck the. latest theory is that's like Beyond me. and then it perhaps just retracts back. down to that infinitely small thing and. then expands again and that this is an. endless cycle and that we're just so. limited because of our biological. limitations or our our life and death is.

such a a small little tiny blip it's so. minuscule in terms of just the overall. known life of the universe and then you. have the James Webb Telescope that's you. know there's people that question the. actual length of time that occurred. between the Big Bang now that maybe it. might be far longer and there's people. like Brian keing that say that's not. that's not correct it's just a a lack of. understanding of what we understand. currently about the creation of galaxies.

and these things yeah because I mean. obviously the length of the the age of. the universe keeps on getting older and. older and a lot of that's because of the. the Doppler fit Doppler shift right the. red shift as the galaxies are. accelerating. away um you know we can calculate what. the what what their origin Point. probably was and how long it took for. them to speed up like that right and. only based on our current understanding. yes which is obviously at least fairly. Limited in terms of what's its potential. is well yeah like we still don't quite.

understand the origin of the Moon the. Moon is at the right location that. causes solar and lunar eclipses it's. like the right apparent uh size to block. out the sun it's like super weird same. thing with like Mars we're not sure like. what happened there where Mars you know. had some probable life on it either a. protoplanet hit or there was some kind. of impact that vaporized stuff and like. who knows yeah who knows and this is. just this little tiny neighborhood that. we're looking at it's like we are in our.

backyard looking for evidence of like. life in. Africa you know I mean like you're not. going to figure it out here there's so. there's just we're just looking at such. a small scale in terms of what we could. potentially discover or potentially. observe yeah yeah I I often wonder you. know when we're seeing especially with. the idea of uaps UFO crafts if we're. we're seeing a version of what we will. become or something like us becomes if.

given enough time well that that is I. mean there's like a Dr Mike Masters at. Montana State he literally postulates. you know he says Time Travelers uh we. could debate time travel but like he. thinks it might be like a advanced form. of homo sapien is what we're seeing. coming back yeah like a breakaway. civilization we coming back to see an. older version of our that was left on. Earth or something like well the way we. would visit like North Sentinel Island. and and visit those people that are. trapped on that island that are.

uncontacted yeah yeah exactly and then a. lot of uh you know there's also like. cargo cult religions and stuff you know. the South Pacific in World War II they. they worshiped the P-51 and stuff like. they thought those were UFOs but really. they were just us you know so and I. think we were probably alien to them I. mean comes I mean just look at how. Cortez looked uh to the the people that. you know had no idea that people could. ride horses like what the [ __ ] is going. on this guys are riding horses yeah like.

these are Gods these white guys coming. in what the insane they come on a ship. in the ocean and they ride horses yeah. yeah exactly um yeah it's all based on. our limited understanding and for. someone whether it's the federal. government or whether it's military. contractors for someone to have key. elements that could give us a better. understanding of this whole. picture it's it's really inexcusable to.

not relay that to all of humanity so. this is too much information to be. secret it's too important if it is real. it's too important for someone to have. access to just because they have power. and money and influence yeah it seems. insane I mean that's the whole primer. for what I did I mean it's I I you know. I think I'm a pretty [ __ ] ethical. person I just could not live with myself. if I didn't try to like make a. difference even though it was very.

uncomfortable personal privacy and then. you know professional and personal. health was at risk you know so it's just. it also seems like the public. understanding and appreciation of these. things particularly after the 2017. article in New York Times has changed. there's been a shift whereas before if. you would talk about UFOs or the idea of. extra life you are automatically lumped. into this group of people that believes. in Bigfoot you know it's like you're in. you're in the lock Nest monster you're. kind of a loon who likes Fringe things.

cuz probably got problems in your own. life you're not addressing and so you're. distracted it's like a a gambler or. something like that you're just like. distracting yourself with this craziness. in order to ignore the the reality of. existence itself which is so complicated. and difficult to manage and then I think. that if we had a better understanding of. the. the overall scale of the potential of. life in the universe based on what we. know like physical evidence undeniable. physical evidence that shows us that.

we're not alone that would be a massive. change in just the overall shift of. Consciousness on Earth if we could. understand that these territorial. disputes that we have which are almost. always over resources or over land or. over religion and ideologies if we could. understand that these are nonsense in. the vast scope of the universe itself. and this is the uh the what is that.

effect that the people that get into the. space station have and. astronauts overview effect overview. effect yes William Shatner had that when. he went up in the uh blue origin yeah. thing I'm sure I'm sure everybody has it. I mean I'm sure it's just like you go. like oh my God like what are we doing. like this is one and that's how I felt I. mean like after I found all this stuff I. could have continued my career you know. made lieutenant colonel here this winter. made Senior executive service in a year. or two did National Security stuff but. I'm like sitting in my office and I'm.

like there's better things for me to. care about than Russian troop movements. like we're not alone right this is. insane like I I have to like blow the. whistle on this this is insane cuz. certainly the people we talk to are not. lying and the documents side. meticulously went through they were not. forgeries they were not deception. material so it's just like I have to do. something I'm sure you've seen those uh. Freedom of Information Act disclosure uh.

papers from the CIA from God it was like. the 1950s where they're detailing all. the various forms of life and that that. we know are currently that currently. exist and you remember that Jamie we. pulled up that document do you think you. can find it Jamie will find it but this. like 1950 something where they were. discussing these things interesting yeah. I'm not sure which ones you're talking. about I'd have to see them so it's. pretty weird stuff because like if they. knew about this in the 1950s like how do.

they know well there was like CIA docks. about Consciousness and like weird. remote viewing stuff I mean besides the. Stargate program uh that were released. in the foyer reading room on cia's. website too that are pretty trippy where. like wow CIA is looking into some really. interesting stuff I mean they're. hardcore Intel agency. what's going on there but it makes sense. that they would kind of have to find out. if that's [ __ ] or not like you can't. ignore that if you're really doing your. job if your job is intelligence like.

okay like let's look at this or it's an. aspect of the phenomenon because it's. like a reach out from the crash. retrieval program like hey I need you to. look into some weird stuff because it. might be the key unlock for something. that we got in a warehouse you know so. whoa yeah yeah so as it stands right now. what what's the future for this stuff. what's the future for these disclosures. and and what what are the bottlenecks. well I mean certainly from the. governmental process you know as long as.

the house doesn't kill this Schumer. Amendment and I'm you know that's why. I'm discussing it here with you because. if they they don't pass it it's going to. be the greatest setback to humankind in. US history. literally that so the presidential panel. gets impanel about 90 days or so after. the passage of the bill so by by. Christmas as long as it doesn't get. killed we be in the National Defense. authorization act panel will be formed.

um say February March then they have a. 300 day process to develop a initial. plan for the president and I don't know. if uh Chuck Schumer and his staff are. being kind of uh crafty or whatever but. the 300 days if you actually do it out. it's like the election so so I don't. know if they want to make it an election. issue which certainly if this act. doesn't pass I think it needs to be an. election issue because the senior. executive needs to rule on this if. Congress can't get their [ __ ] together.

to be quite honest and we have a a plan. out to 2030 where this stuff starts. getting rolled out Knock on Wood Perfect. Storm things could get delayed but then. in parallel and that's kind of why I. helped found the soul foundation with. Gary Nolan and Dr Peter skafish who's an. anthropologist uh as well is we wanted. to figure out the stem Outreach we. wanted to figure out the public policy. National policy to advise the US and its. allies on this issue you know and we're.

happy like I said I'm not here to slap. the government in its entirety and. admonish everybody like I think there. needs to be a Truth and Reconciliation. process but I think our foundation we. want to be like okay well bring us in as. a think tank if you know based on my. experience and experience of my. colleagues like you have an issue with X. well let's figure out how to. roll this out and how to you know. incentivize the National Science. Foundation to look in this make this. like you know it's dual use right you. might um uh develop uh a unique uh.

scientific uh process that actually. works well with nanobiology or something. like that but also has dual use with. UAP so there's parallel tracks I mean. there's public Discovery there's like. the Galileo project with Avy lobe right. that they're trying to uh on their own. collect techno signatures uh which is I. applaud that I mean obviously the. government knows a lot about that but we. don't want to obviously rely on the US. government to do all the work for us and.

also to be honest so I think having a. parallel track and you know Galileo. project Soul Foundation Ryan Graves has. his own uh Foundation as well for pilots. and people who have seen unique things. to provide that data to people so I. think you got to have those dual tracks. and you know hopefully. we can create a tsunami event where the. US government its allies and maybe our. adversaries uh but really if the US. government doesn't get their uh house in. order here I mean you could have a.

uncontrolled disclosure events such that. either maybe the non-human intelligence. is like yeah let's do it or what if one. of our adversaries decides to disclose. and they become the Messiah figure on. this and we lose sovereignty or national. Supremacy in in that regard. from an open and honest Civil Society. perspective so I but I think the. governments were getting close I think. um as longly closer than we've ever been. before just the fact that they brought.

you in to have these. conversations yeah no I'm I'm still. advising the US government on this and. and and I'm trying to carefully message. this put all the broad things on the. table and I'm not trying to be koi I'm. not trying to be Conceal anything but. it's like there real National Security. and collateral damage uh with just. releasing this willy-nilly and I'm just. trying to get the government to get a. plan together here and and just be open. and honest with the people of the world.

really so and there's still the. bottleneck with these military. contractors that allegedly have access. to these things yeah and like to to. those guys and I know some of them um. and the individuals that hold the. keys like this is a boon like this is. don't look at it like um you're going to. lose money you this is a recruiting. opportunity yes you're going to have to. let other people in the cookie jar. that's how a fair and free Society works. and they should be able to compete for. work and because that was one of the.

main I talked to some individuals that. were in an informal session for a. previous administration on should we. disclose or not for a c former president. and um really insightful what they told. me and and one of the biggest impasses. to disclosure wasn't the ontological. shock from a socieconomic or theological. perspective it was well there's some. white color crime we violated the. federal acquisition regulations we Soul. sourced this work to some big companies. for decades contractors are going to.

litigate this to the Supreme Court. saying they lost billions of projected. income because they didn't get the bid. on the work and it's going to be this. like liability disaster for the US. government and and the problem with that. is is like I understand that but like. that's why you need to have a Truth and. Reconciliation process it's almost like. a. The Truth and Reconciliation Commission. and postapartheid South Africa where. people who committed like murder came in. and was like this is what happened here. you go and you know they don't get.

convicted of those crimes and I'm not. say I mean people who've committed. murder as it relates to the subject okay. we should probably hold them accountable. but for some of this stuff there needs. to be a process where we kind of. mitigate some of those uh unfortunate. legal issues but that was one of the. main issues a certain group for a. reasonably recent. Administration came up with and advised. that President hey look there's going to. be a lot of supreme court stuff let's. not be that be that guy so it's like the.

like that's the barrier that's the. reason come on well so ridiculous it. makes sense though that they would think. that way because I do believe that. lawsuits would emerge from something. like that oh certainly and it it's and. also it's like uh the government. admitting that we can't protect its. citizenry you know uh you know these non. human intelligence you know want to do. something to you sorry we don't have any. countermeasures to that you know it's. like this you know there's a social. contract between the citizens and the. government we can protect you Etc and.

like in this case it's like it's an. enigma but I think this is almost like. uh you remember like after 911 I was in. high school and 911 happened and you. know people were afraid of dirty bombs. terrorists we didn't we didn't know what. was going to happen next we lived in. fear but like you know we banded. together in the presence of fear and. hension and unknowing what the world was. going to be and we made made it through. it now I mean that's a course analogy to. this but. I uh people just have to think in that.

mindset like it's going to be a little. scary it's not going to be like Kumbaya. let's let's uh move the [ __ ] to the. masoni and check it out it's going to be. there's some you know awkward and uh. things we're going to have to address. sociologically I guess are you. optimistic about how all this lays. out I am I mean it's kind of like when I. was testifying in the public hearing. oddly bipartisan in a good way I had AOC. and Matt Gates like agreeing on. something and they were like smiling at. each other like okay crazy this is crazy.

you know I'm like look at there's AOC. there's Matt Gates there's Timber shett. I mean there's like people uh Garcia. like people that wouldn't see eye to eye. on most subject it's such a human issue. because they they want to know the truth. too and I don't think the the leaders in. Congress want to be told that they're. second class citizens I mean a lot of. presid presidents weren't brief to. everything some presidents knew a lot. more than others and I have a pretty. good beat on that and it's like wait the. chief executive that also forms foreign. policy you don't tell them about a.

ostensibly a foreign element so how do. they as chief of state how do they form. foreign policy when you don't fully. brief them on a foreign element it's. like classifying the existence of. Russia right right so you're. actually you know non-constitutional by. not allowing our commander-in-chief all. information sometimes you know and I. don't know what Harry Reid talked to Joe. Biden I mean it was certainly the. substance that I I mentioned here uh and.

I I hope that Joe Biden has been briefed. on the program so to speak uh at least. I'm I'm giving him an oral unclassified. briefing right now I guess if he hasn't. been in you know I'm happy to you know. talk to Jake Sullivan or ail Haynes and. ail Haynes if she's not briefed like. she's supposed to be briefed all. intelligence in the country it's 50 US. code section 3024 you the director now. National Intelligence has allowed. everything from all federal agencies. that's Intel related Well ma'am if you.

don't know what I'm talking about we. have a problem because you're not being. briefed by CIA director and some other. agencies. so well listen David I really appreciate. what you've done um I think you've done. a great service to humanity just by. taking a stand and and communicating. these ideas and and letting people know. how much of this is real and you know.

you've opened up a world of discourse. that probably would not have existed if. you hadn't done that thanks yeah I mean. this was not easy I'm sure so I. appreciate it thank you very much for. being here and uh good luck in the. future thank you thank you all right bye. everybody. [Music]. [Applause]. [Music].