Joe Rogan Experience #1979 - Dr. Aseem Malhotra

Joe Rogan podcast check it out The Joe. Rogan Experience Train by day Joe Rogan. podcast by night all. day how are you good man welcome to. America it's great to be here like my. 25th time yeah 25th time recently um no. I mean I was last here in uh November. actually yeah I was here in November and. um but I have you know my closest Family.

outside my immediate family um. unfortunately have all passed away now. uh are in California so you know since I. was a kid I'd probably come over and. meet them and you know come over to San. Jose and like every other. year so for people who don't know what. who you are and what you do could you. please just tell us your credentials and. what your occupation is yeah so I'm a. consultant cardiologist um I qualified. from Edinburgh Medical School in. Scotland 2001 so I've been a practicing. physician now for well over 20 years my.

initial early career Joe is I. specialized in Interventional Cardiology. so in layman's terms that's keall heart. surgery stent if you like um and then. over the past few years for different. reasons which we'll probably get into um. I focused more of my uh work on. prevention and how did you become this. uh controversial covid character well. it's interesting my I think controversy. with me probably started a much uh many.

years ago um probably I became sort of I. I broke into the. mainstream uh around sort of 2011. initially because I wrote a article. which was a front page commentary in The. Observer newspaper which is part of the. Guardian group in the UK basically as. the cardiologist was saying you know why. are we serving junk food to my patients. in. hospitals uh and that was after I'd met. with Jamie Oliver who I'd written to so. that's I kind of started campaigning on. the issues around obesity at that point.

um and not shortly uh after not long. after that Joe I then um had sort of. went into a deep dive to try and. understand why we had an obesity. epidemic so what was driving that uh. what was the role of cholesterol in. heart disease overprescription of Statin. saturated fat and and essentially that. culminated me publishing a piece in the. British medical journal in 2013 October. basically which was title saturated fat. is not the major issue and suggesting we. should be focusing on sugar we got it. wrong on saturated fat we're over dting.

million people millions of people on. statins cholesterol is not that bad as a. risk factor for heart disease um and. that's really where I sort of broke into. the main and that was you know it the. bmj press released it it was front page. of three British newspapers it was I was. on Fox News Chicago CNN International. and that's really when I I started my. kind of activism and um to try and fight. back against medical misinformation and. and a kind of deep understanding that. what was driving poor health for many.

many people was biased and corrupted. information that was coming from two big. Industries um big food and big farmer. and that's fairly controversial still. today but backed up by data now like. that the the the talk about saturated. fat and the fact that sugar is terrible. for you and now that we know because the. New York Times excuse me New York New. York Times published U that uh expose of. those initial scientists that were. bribed I believe it was the 50s or the.

60s do you know you know the whole story. yeah of course you do um where they they. were basically given about $50,000 which. is not that much money to ruin. everyone's idea of what's good and bad. for you because they demonize saturated. fat in order to preserve sugar they they. they were paid off by the sugar industry. to do this yeah absolutely Joe that's. that's really the heart of the problem. it's it's I would describe it as the. corporate capture of medicine in public. health and it's been going on for.

decades yet I think only now and. certainly we'll get into it around the. covid vaccine stuff I think only now. more people are really becoming aware of. it and uh I think one of the things I. discovered when I looked into the whole. issue about saturated fat and sugar Etc. is um you know in the in the sort of 50s. 60s and 70s there were two scientists. who were really at War around what was. driving heart disease because heart. disease really started to increase in. the United States from 1920 and peaked. around 1960 7 in terms of death rates.

from from coronary arter disease and. Anil Keys was the American physiologist. who from Minnesota who said that. saturated fat was a culprit and then. there was John yudkin who was a British. uh endocrinologist nutrition scientist. who basically said that it's sugar but. because the sugar industry was so. powerful they were able to put all of. their resources in energy into. supporting anel Keys who did take money. from sugar industry later emerged and. silence John yudkin and for decades we.

were under this false belief that it was. saturated fat that was a big culprit in. heart disease and the other thing to add. into this which wasn't fully accepted or. known at the time was the uh now. acknowledgement that of the impact of. smoking so um you know it was it took. about 50 years between the first links. between smoking and lung cancer that. were published in the British medical. journal before we had any effective. regulation on Tobacco Control you know. Tobacco Control uh interventions.

government interventions and um uh and. and now we know that when you look at. the decline in death rates specifically. death rates from heart disease in the. last four or five decades almost half of. that Joe can be uh attributed to. reduction in smoking so so these are. these are things that weren't really. fully accepted and understood at the. time and the reason for that and this is. really interesting is the tobacco. industry adopted a corporate Playbook.

you know I call it a dirty tricks. corporate Playbook um of planting doubt. cigarettes were harmful confusing the. public denial and even buying the. Loyalty of bent scientists so when there. was a people doctors and public health. Advocates saying smoking is a problem. with the heart scientists were paid to. write articles in medical journals. saying it's not smoking it's stress. people who smoke are more stressed and. it's nothing to do with the cigarettes. so you know this is history repeating. itself in a way and denialism and this.

is another thing I find quite. fascinating I I I mentioned this in some. of my lectures as well as late on as. 1994 the CEOs of every major tobacco. firm went in front of US Congress and. swore under oath they did not believe. nicotine was addictive or smoking caused. lung. cancer right yeah so you know all of. that was thrown in so I once I kind of. as as a practicing cardiologist as a. regular Frontline jobbing Doctor Who was. seeing since I qualified more and more.

people getting sick more chronic disease. I started to think hold on is there. something we're doing wrong as a medical. profession are we giving the wrong. advice what's actually going on here and. when I did that deep dive and went into. the root cause of it I then realized. that you know the the system. unfortunately had become increasingly. corrupted um over many many years by um. these powerful commercial entities that. have whose only interest for legal. reasons is to produce profit for. shareholders not look not to look after.

your health yeah that's all they really. are responsible for when you did this. and you uh started to talk about diet. and health and the misconceptions or. misinformation about diet and health. what was the push back. like it was huge um I think you know for. me the so when I published a piece in. the British medical journal 2 so it was. October 23rd I never forget this.

2013 um it got a lot of attention at. this stage I'm what we call a specialist. regist in cardiology so uh I'm not a. consultant I'm not top of my grade yet. I'm still I'm finishing my training I'm. almost a a fully-fledged cardiologist. I'm doing intervention Key hall art. surgery and the first thing that. happened to me Joe which I haven't. really talk spoke about publicly before. is um imagine front page of three. British newspapers a lot of attention. and a lot of people were happy because. suddenly you know the the front page.

headline was butter is back cardiologist. says eating butter does not cause heart. disease right I know that brings a smile. to your face and I I I know why I mean. you know who doesn't like eating butter. but it was true it was what the facts. told us at the time so I I published. this stuff but I also what I did at the. time is uh in that 800-word editorial I. basically also went for one of the most. prescribed drugs in the history of. medicine which are statin drugs because. I had to make the link of everything so. if saturated fat doesn't cause heart. disease but we know saturated fat can.

raise. cholesterol that means cholesterol isn't. that important and if cholesterol isn't. that important why are we giving all. these people Statin so I was able to. scientifically and rationally put that. all that jigsaw together but and in that. piece one of the things I wrote is I. said that the side effects of statins. are um underrepresented in clinical. trials and the side effects usually are. things like muscle aches and fatigue and. this was also part of my clinical. experience as a cardiologist I was. seeing way more people.

anecdotally although you know I've. managed tens of thousands of people in. my career in terms of patients um I was. seeing way more people with side effects. from Statin I diagnosed than what what. was actually in the published literature. what was coming through in the medical. journals where doctors were being told. side effects are rare less than 1%. chance of of getting fatigue on muscle. symptoms I was seeing about 20% and. there was a a reference that I used in. my article which suggested uh a a recent. study in the community in the United. States which suggested that one in five. patients probably get side effects from.

statins now you know that is is um so we. put that in the p in in the can I stop. you for a second is it because those. those side effects fatigue muscle. soreness things like that were fairly. mild is that why they were under. reported great question so now we know. the reason so first and foremost when I. ask ask a patient patient complains. about side effects I ask them is this. interfering with your quality of life so. if they say yes by definition from their. perspective it's not my it's something. that's really just making them feel.

pretty part of my language shitty but. the reason um Joe that they were not. reported and that came out later on this. is something I didn't know as a medical. student as a qualified doctor as a. specialist is until then is a lot of the. clinical trials that are conducted that. drive guidelines these randomized trials. where you give patients you know one. group gets the um the Statin and one. group group gets a dummy pill and you. they don't know whether they're getting.

the dummy pill or the Statin and then. they're followed up and you see whether. they have less heart attacks and what. side effects they get is that there's. something called a pre-randomization. running period so before the trial. actually starts people are enrolled and. then um if you get side effects you are. taken out of the trial before it starts. so what happens is yeah so what oh wow. yeah so what happens is the the end. result of those trials is therefore. biased towards people who didn't get. side effects and then they and then even.

then they're you know under so there's a. big Under reporting issue now and they. have no responsibility to report the. people that were removed that also got. side effects well so what they do it's. very interesting they get around it it's. slightly um slightly sneaky they in one. of these trials called the heart. protection study 36,000 people were. removed from the trial before it began. one of the largest stattin trials and. what they did was they mentioned this. but they said they they used the word. non-compliant suggesting that the. patients didn't take the pills oh wow. but that doesn't make sense because if.

you're going to enroll into a trial Joe. you're probably going to be someone. who's enthusiastic to be part of this. trial so they use this broad umbrella to. non-compliance but and some of them may. well have been non-compliant you know. people you know what I'm going to start. I don't really want to take a pill. taking this for weeks now whatever but. actually later on when you look at real. world data you know uh certainly in the. United States a largest study called a. Statin survey done in the United States. basically reveals that within about a. year of people being prescribed statins. 75% of them will stop taking it and when.

you ask them why 62% of those 75% that. stopped taking it said they got my side. effects so there's a huge discrepancy. there so I was using my clinical. experience understanding how the trials. are run we wrote I wrote this piece and. what and this is really fascinating Joe. so uh I'll get on to the second part of. this in a second um at the same. time uh John Abramson who I know you've. interviewed he wrote a piece in the bmj. at the exactly the same time as me which.

was specifically about should we be. giving more people Statin so people what. we call low risk of heart disease which. would essentially mean because you know. there were mutterings from guideline. bodies saying you know maybe we should. give more people STS to prevent heart. attacks and what that would have meant. in reality Joe if it was taken up that. would mean practically everybody over. the age of 50 would suddenly be a risk. that they would deem required the use of. Staten drugs so John and his as a. prophylactic measure to prevent heart. attacks absolutely so John wrote this.

piece uh with two of his colleagues from. Harvard and it was an analysis of the. data proper rigorously you know and both. our pieces my P piece was peer-reviewed. so was his and um in his article he. basically said listen if you're low risk. of heart disease then your risk of the. benefit of statins is really really. negligible um about one in 140 chance of. it preventing you having a heart attack. or a non a non-fatal heart attack or. non-disabling stroke over 5 years based.

upon industry sponsored data still so. there's still a bias there but even when. you look at that it's still very. marginal it will not prolong your life. but he also referenced the same. reference I put in saying from a. community study actually one in five. people get disabling side effects I'm. going to come on to that story later. because it's really interesting. disabling is that the yeah disable. disabling or you know uh debilitating. maybe debilitating or serious enough for. them to feel not well let's put it that. way but yeah it's it's semantics but. yeah it depends how you define it but I. would say quality of life limiting I.

think is probably more accurate is that. how they defined it as non-compliant. because these people experience these. side effects and they're like I I want. to get out of the trial so that was. non-compliance yeah I mean they didn't. yes they didn't specifically say that. but that's clearly what probably what. happened most likely okay so he writes. this piece we both reference the same. side effect profile which is massively. more than all of what doctors have. accepted or been told as gospel truth. from all these big impact medical. journals but lots of things happened in. terms of push back so the first thing. that happened to me is the very next day.

after I'm in the news I get um well. actually I'll tell you something more. more interesting so I I go on CNN. International so I'm a junior doctor at. this point in the British National. Health Service and I'm in the green room. about to go live on air for CNN to. debate with a professor who I won't name. at Imperial College who is a very big. proponent of. statins and uh I'm about to go on air. and he basically he meets me there and. he's like super he's almost frothing at.

the mouth he's really angry I'm really. angry with what you did I was like I've. never met this guy before and he started. repeating this Mantra basically he. basically said for every one mill. lowering of LDL cholesterol which is. what STS do you have a 20% reduction in. heart attacks and he come said almost. like a religious man he kept saying the. same thing again and again and again and. he and I just I stayed calm and said. listen you know I think this merits. debate I think there's a big problem of. overprescription of statins I don't. think that um everybody should taking. statins I think it has a role in some.

people and he kind of calmed down we. went on air and the discussion really. focused on the fact that you know this. cardiologist here is saying it's okay to. have stake do you agree with him and you. know and the the discussion ended up. being quite reasonable um but I got a. little bit of a kind of like you know uh. I felt almost it was a veil threat you. know this guy's a very powerful guy um. you know in in the Cardiology community. in the scientific community in London. everybody kind of knows each other you. know this kind of person things could. happen where people like that could. potentially you know have conversations.

and W your career but I was you know for. me I'm just committed to the truth so I. kind of you know I didn't know what was. coming the very next day in my hospital. I get a phone call and I just started. working there a couple of weeks earlier. uh as what we call an Interventional. fellow so I was the main guy who was. being trained up to be the next um uh. what do we call Interventional. cardiologist so they choose people I was. selected in this University Hospital to. be the guy that essentially does the. procedures operations with supervision.

to become completely independent and I. was doing you know I started doing. stance and doing stuff independently and. I was I was good at it so I get a phone. call from the secretary of the medical. director and she says um you know uh Dr. so and so I won't name him um you know. would like to meet you and I just got a. feeling that it wouldn't be good and I. spoke to you know when I when I when I. published this piece because this it's. called Cen University Hospital went in. the news a lot of the staff were really. proud like I had you know the nurses and.

secretaries coming up to me and saying. thank you well done it's so so great to. see this in the news and we're really. proud of you and you represent our. hospital and this kind of stuff and I. said well the medical director wants to. see me I said oh no I'm sure he's wants. to congratulate you and I wasn't quite. sure so I go up to his office never met. this guy before he um opens the door he. doesn't check my hand he's literally red. in the face and he doesn't he says come. in sit.

down I sit down and he looks at me and. he says do you know your duties as a. doctor I've been speaking to the General. Medical Council about you now just for. the audience here General Medical. Council are the regulatory body that. control doctor's licenses to practice. they can remove your license to practice. right and I'm sitting there going okay. um he says what tell me what have you. done you know uh I've read this article. and this is a tweet here uh you know.

saying that statins are overprescribed. blah blah and I I talked him through it. and he goes are you telling me that our. nurses can tell our cardiac patients. that they can eat butter now it sounds. ridiculous Joe now right but he was. really serious about this so I um I. calmly just spoke said listen this isn't. I just this is a thing that got me I. said listen I've written this in the. British medical journal one of the. highest impact medical journals in the. world this was peer-reviewed and I think. there is a scientific case here and I.

just talked to him you know um without. getting emotional and uh it was really. interesting by the end of the. conversation he said to me he said I. very much hope that in 10 years from now. I can tell my. grandkids that I sat opposite the man. the cardiologist that busted the myth of. saturated fat causing heart disease wow. right so you turned him I did but but. unfor so I did I felt I did turn him I. thought okay okay you know this is a. power of the truth and you stand your.

ground and you and you talk respectfully. to people and you can potentially turn. them what happened over the next few. months though was something I never. could have predicted but really shaped. me in many ways to be the the person I. am. today I uh this story had legs so it. kept dragging on in terms of you know. there was a lot more stories now in. interest about butter and saturated fat. in fact there was a front page I don't. if you remember this time magazine um.

there was a 2014 there was a front page. story as butter back and it was. triggered by my article because a. journalist called me and spoke to me I. didn't I wasn't quoting the article in. the end but he said listen we we're. going to look into this and they got. lots of different nutritional scientists. and made the case that butter was fine. probably okay in terms of heart disease. but what happened after that was because. I'd also attacked statins you know um. and and of course a huge industry I. think well let's just try and give some. context here Joe uh the Staten industry. or the cholesterol loing industry I mean. it's a it's a trillion dollar industry.

there's a lot of money a lot of people. make money from the fear of cholesterol. and the prescription of statins in fact. there's estimates now that globally in. terms of prescriptions up to 1 billion. people are prescribed Staten drugs in. the United States it's at least 30. million people taking them probably more. so I had really said essentially that. most of those people don't need to take. the stand and and and more more than. that I said we should tell patients. honestly and break down the information. the way they can understand and say.

listen if you're low risk of heart. disease you haven't had a heart attack. your benefit of stating is 1% right and. and when you tell people that most. people Joe don't want to take the pill. anyway so I said this is about ethics. and evidence-based medicine so I kept. that discussion going and then one of. the cardiologists the lead cardiologists. in the department he came up to me one. day a couple of months later and said. listen uh I think I was on channel 4. news talking about it or something and. he said listen um you know uh I respect. your opinion blah blah blah however um. you can't keep saying this publicly um.

and if you do then there may be an issue. about your job here so I kind of thought. okay well and I'm not saying anything. wrong uh something else came up I was. quoted another article and then you know. I had had a job in this place Joe for. one year this is my Interventional. Fellowship you know being doing the. specialist training final stages to. being an Interventional. cardiologist and uh I then got a letter. out of the. blue um 4 months into the job saying. that we have decided to.

discontinue um you know your. fellowship and uh you've got two months. notice was there any reason no but it. was clearly because of because of they. don't have to give you a specific thing. that you violated or no there was no. reason because the thing is my you know. my uh and I don't say this to blow my. own trumpet I've always prided myself on. my clinical care in over 20 years which. is unusual and I'm sure some of it's. luck I've never received a single. complaint from a patient and I got get. get on with my colleagues and the staff. and everything so there was no reason.

but he basically said to me off the. record it was because of this and. clearly someone higher up had um had had. a conversation I suspect right um a. journalist who's a guardian journalist. who I knew also when I told him about. this at the beginning he said a seem you. know just be careful because you know. I've seen this happen before you know. the farmer companies are very powerful. and someone will just needs one phone. call to the CEO and they'll say shut. this guy up right and we'll get on to. other stuff later that's been quite. similar but yeah sorry go on but what.

can you please tell us like what is the. mechanism how does statins work and what. does it do to lower cholesterol yeah so. for many years there's been this. misconception that high cholesterol is. one of the. most single one of the most important. risk factors for development of heart. disease so I broke down the data and. I've published a lot on this stuff to. look at it properly and Joe this uh the. the association of uh cholesterol and. heart disease came from something called.

the Framingham study which was in. Massachusetts started in 1948 carried on. for several decades where they followed. up 5,000 people and many risk factors. for heart disease came from that. correlations which were then validated. like things like type 2 diabetes and. high blood pressure even smoking and. high. cholesterol now what's interesting about. framing him is when you look at the. associations of total cholesterol and. heart disease it was only there when you. your uh total cholesterol the.

significant Association was only there. if it was over 300 migs per deciliter. very few people have total cholesterol. that are high and we have to also. understand that most of your cholesterol. is genetic 80% of a cholesterol is. genetic 80% 80% since it's since I. because cholesterol is a really. important molecule in the body it's not. just it's you know important for. maintaining cell uh cell membranes uh. it's important role in the immune system. um hormones hormones vitamin D synthesis. all of that stuff right so it's genetic. you can alter it with your diet the. components of it something called.

triglycerides and HDL so called good. cholesterol right but so the total. cholesterol was not a very good. indicator so if it was very very high. there was Association but that's in. what's interesting about that is those. Mo almost all of those people had a. genetic condition which gave them very. very high levels of cholesterol it's. called familial hypolipidemia affects. one in 250 people right and then at the. very other end from framing him the very. low levels of cholesterol less than 150. migs of deser or 4 milles in in European. uh terminology there was almost no heart.

disease so again there's genetic factors. there and we so basically people with. genetically low cholesterol tend to not. develop premature heart disease another. interesting caveat most of that data on. the development of heart disease was. only up to people in who were 50 or 60. and what wasn't publicized is that once. you hit 50 as your cholesterol dropped. in Framingham your mortality rate. increased never really discussed so I. looked at all of this that's interesting. but I think the thing that really um.

sort of was a nail in the coffin for me. in understanding the association of. cholesterol and heart disease was very. weak was William castelli who is one of. the co-directors of framing I'm. cardiologist in 1996 did a full summary. of framing them and he said this he said. unless you cuz you know you're going to. talk about you may be thinking okay hold. on there's good cholesterol and bad. cholesterol so he specifically focused. on what we call LDL bad cholesterol and. he said unless your LDL cholesterol. is above 7.8 milles per liter which is.

something like um Joe it's probably a uh. yeah at least 300 pretty much three. around 300 milligrams per deciliter it. has no value in isolation in predicting. heart disease so what they determine. from framing was your risk of heart. disease as one of the risk factors was. something was your total cholesterol. divided by your HDL the good cholesterol. the. ratio so that's the first thing so the. association of of heart disease is quite. weak first and foremost the second.

question is when you try and prove that. there is a biomarker that is causal in. heart disease you want to show that if. you lower it then there is a difference. in heart attacks and strokes for example. and only in. 2019 more recently um I co-authored a. paper in bmj evidence-based medicine. with two other cardiologists and what we. did was we looked at all the drug trials. at lowering cholesterol to find out is. this true when you look at it in.

totality not Cherry Picked evidence is. there a correlation with lowering LDL. cholesterol and total cholesterol and. preventing heart attacks and strokes and. this is based upon randomized control. trial data so this is the most robust. evidence you can get Joe no clear. correlation it was BS the whole thing. was BS in that sense like it's very weak. if anything so that means so then the. next question is well hold on how does. statins work and that's the question you. asked me earlier and it's a great. question it's a really important one. statins do have have a a small benefit. but one of the properties of statins.

which isn't talked about is they have. anti-inflammatory and anticlotting. benefits so even though they lower LDL. cholesterol the real benefit in. preventing heart attacks and strokes is. through that mechanism but when you. break it down as I said before your risk. is you know the benefits are about 1% if. you're low risk of heart disease but if. you've had a heart attack and many. patients IC have had heart attacks and. they get automatically put on statins. and the cardiologists rarely even check. their cholesterol because in the. Cardiology Community we kind of knew. that I was like it doesn't matter what.

your cholesterol is let's put them on a. stat because the trials show there are. benefits but what are those benefits. when you break them down in absolute. terms this is really crucial and. important um and this isn't cherry pick. stuff this is what all the evidence. shows and it's being peer reviewed Etc. if you've had a heart attack patient. comes to me Doc should I carry on this. Statin or I've been put on this Statin. or I'm getting side effects I say to. them listen let's just let me just. explain to you the benefits first so. that you're not you don't have an. exaggerated fear of stopping a stattin. and you also don't go around with the. illusion of protection thinking that's.

the only thing I need to do. now over a 5-year period if you take. your stattin religiously and don't get. side effects right because remember the. trials took out people with side effects. so best case scenario your benefit of a. Statin is one in 83 for saving your. life right and one in 39 and preventing. a further heart attack now a lot of. people find that quite underwhelming. another way of looking at the statistics.

Joe and this is important for. populations looking at those trials and. when I when I what I'm about to tell you. when I talk at conferences to doctors. and general practitioners and there's. like a gasp from the audience right when. I tell them this and this is published. in the bmj so in the randomized trials. you look at an average how much well if. I ask you that question right you've had. a heart attack let's say for example and. statins are one of the most prescribed. drugs are the you know miracle cure. whatever the one of the most potent um. beneficial drugs in the history of.

medicine if you take those uh if you. take a Statin for 5 years having had a. heart attack in that 5-year period how. much would you think or hope it would. add to your life expectancy you you've. literally survived a heart attack right. and now you've been given this pill. which your doctor's telling you this is. you must never stop this is going to. save your life how much would you hope. it would add to your life expectancy. over a 5year period over that period you. know we can incrementally 25% 30% yeah. okay so a few years I L A few years. extra yeah you want the answer yes just.

over 4. days 4 days four. days maybe those are great days though. well no fair enough absolutely and you. know but but you know this is so and the. reason I'm mentioning that is when you. look back over the last few decades and. people talk about what has driven down. death rates from heart disease there's. this assumption it's been the mass. prescription of stands millions of. people saying stands. but the evidence suggests there's a.

separate analysis done they looked at. European countries high risk and lowrisk. people of heart disease over 12 years. was there a difference in was there a. reduction in heart disease death rates. because of statins and the answer was no. and that doesn't mean that the data is. fraudulent it's been misrepresented but. if you accept say it's the four a 4-day. increase right but these are in people. who didn't get side effects who were. adherent to statins and real world data. tells us Joe even people have had heart. attacks maybe 50% of them will stop. taking just within a few years mainly. because of side effects you can.

understand why that hasn't had an impact. on the population but think about that. this is one of the most. powerful lucrative drugs in the history. of medicine and this is. how. marginal let's be polite here how. marginal the benefits are now once this. information has been out there and it's. been published and you've had these. talks and people were aware of this what. has been the reaction and has there been.

any change in how it's. prescribed so I then so after this. publication the bmj initially um and. then I I you know I had to um get. another job right so I lost that job in. that in that hospital I then end up. working for free briefly in another NHS. Hospital Cardiology Department that I. worked for free doing one day a week um. because I had another role with health. policy which I'll come on to uh you know. that they were paying me some money and. I I didn't want to stop seeing patients. so I was working for free in one. hospital for a year in a Cardiology.

Department um I uh in sort of March. 2014 the uh I got a a phone call in fact. an email initially from the editor of. the British medical journal and she said. aim um you know let's come let's have a. meeting I think I went to meet her and. she said uh there is a man called. Professor sori Collins Professor uh Rory. Collins is probably considered in the. world the lead Statin researcher it's at. Oxford University he got his Knighthood.

from the queen because of his work on. statins he has said that you need to. retract Abramson and malhotra's papers. because there is a significant error on. the side effect issue and this is going. to cause harm people are going to stop. their statins and she said straight away. no I'm not going to retract it but we're. very happy if you would like to publish. you know send a critique in and we'll. publish it but for some reason he. decided he didn't want to do that so. this back and forth was going on and. then out of the blue he decides whether.

it was him or somebody else to go to the. Guardian newspaper and I get a phone. call from the guardian in the BBC which. again was headline news that what. Abramson and Mal Malhotra had done which. became a new story front page of the. Guardian was so damaging in terms of. their error on the Statin side effects. issue that people will die essentially. this is uh almost as bad as um they were. trying to make parallels with Andrew. Wakefield and the whole mons Rella issue. that happened many many years ago that.

was the scientist that lost his license. because he linked the MMR vaccine to. autism right so they were trying to. create that kind of frenzy and I'm like. whoa this is okay so I I went on BBC and. I I stood my ground and and and that I. think put the bmj under pressure and. then the next thing that happens is I. remember I was with my cousin in New. York I'll never forget this and I get an. email a press release from the bmj which. I knew was going to you know and this is. to be honest it's it's attack on one's. credibility but the bmj then decided.

they were going to send our articles for. an independent review U whether or not. they should be retracted and a Joe just. to put things in context here that's. potentially career destroying in the. sense that if my article got retracted. it got so much publicity and and I. genuinely believe what I said was. correct but it gets retracted then your. credibility is undermined pretty much. forever and your career's you know it it. would be career destroying for me I'm at. the beginning of my career so I was on. trial essentially for two months if you. like and uh you know that was it was.

tough it was very very tough um there. was a panel they convened they asked me. to you know send in responses and then. whatever else I didn't know what was. going to happen and then I think it was. August 2014 I remember it broke the news. and it was um you know I got an email. and basically uh the panel had come back. 60 unanimous in our favor wow there was. no call for attraction because John. Abramson went through a lot during that. period as well I know you interviewed. him yes and uh and we cked and whatever. else when that happened Joe there were.

two things I could have done one was wow. this is like too much I don't think I. can handle this I'm just going to you. know I'm going to hide away and just. keep a low profile but I thought no you. know what this is about ethical. evidence-based Medical Practice um there. were some corrections that needed to be. done some caveats that they added in to. to into the papers around the side. effects issue so I carried on this. campaign I carried on publishing other. journals kept talking about transparent. communication ethical evidence-based. medicine stat over prescription there. other things we can be doing in terms of. Lifestyle right which are going to be.

more powerful you know whether it's low. carb Mediterranean diet exercise why are. we not focusing our attention there. rather than just giving people all these. pills that they think is going to. protect them from heart attacks and in. most cases it doesn't and in that. journey and this went on for a few years. um this is where things got uh really. interesting so so there was to answer. your question yes it there was a lot of. backlash it was tough there was a bit of. smearing going on um but I realized then. you know as a public health Advocate.

that you've got to have a thick skin and. grow a rhinoceros hide and those those. are the words from a man called Simon. Chapman Simon Chapman is uh professor of. psychology in Australia he was. considered the lead campaigner in making. sure there was Tobacco Control in. Australia and he wrote a paper talking. about his 38y year career in public. health advocacy and gave 10 lessons and. one of those lessons is this. as soon as your work threatens an.

industry or an ideological cabal you. will be attacked sometimes unrelentingly. and viciously so grow a rhinoceros hide. and I thought you know what I'm up for. it I'm up for it so many more people. came out the woodwork to support me. other doctors said you're right you know. and I I thought this is about truth and. transparency and about um ethical. medicine and highlighting all the. corruption and the conflicts of interest. one of the things that Professor Collins. had it hadn't been made apparent is his.

Department had taken over2 200 million. at Oxford for doing research into. statins from the drug industry and they. also kept the data commercially. confidential so most of the Publications. and guidelines that were coming on. statens were coming from emanating from. that department where no one had been. able to independently verify the data. and he has quoted in the guardian saying. only problematic side effects from. statins affect one in 10,000 people. so I thought this there's something this.

doesn't this doesn't add up I think. these are biases conflicts of interest. I'm not saying that he was deliberately. malicious but I think there's a huge you. know conflict of interest there that is. clouding his judgment plus he's not a. clinician he doesn't see patients so. there's all of those things that I think. limit his ability to really look at the. evidence properly and. 2016 um you really couldn't make this up. 2016 so he's campaigning saying side. effects almost non-existent I get a. phone call from the Sunday Times. journalist guy called John God Thomas. great guy and uh he said a see you never.

you never believe you won't believe what. I found out cuz by two the reason this. came out in 2016 the they decided to. republish so what Colin said he says. there's a lot of discussion about. statens and side effects we're going to. reanalyze our own data again and look. into this so they published this piece. in the Lance in 2016 and they basically. said the same thing again side effects. statins of rare less than 1% maybe get. you know some mild muscle AES that kind. of thing a week later this journalist. calls me and he says. we found something I found something. really interesting what is it he said in.

the United States there is a genetic. test called Statin. smart which is uh the company uh Boston. Heart Diagnostics is a company that is. uh marketing this has a license to. Market this product and on their. website uh they oh the genetic test the. co- inventor of this genetic test is. Professor s. Collins and on their website they're. selling this test to basically try and. figure out who's likely to get side.

effects so you do this test and it tells. you whether or not your like to get side. effects from specific statens or not and. it says. 29% of all Statin users are likely to. get significant muscle symptoms or side. effects from stats whoa and he did a. freedom of information request to Oxford. University I published on this with John. Abramson actually we did this in one of. the paper we wrote later on and he and. and Oxford University came back and. basically said that he asked him how. much how many have you taken from. selling this device and it was something.

in the order of uh the university had re. received. 300,000 and Professor Collins's. Department had received about. £100,000 this you it doesn't make any. sense so in one sense he's saying side. effects are non-existent yeah he's. co-invented a test to try and detect. who's like to get side effects and on. the website it got taken down after that. interestingly you know we we published. it and we we highlighted this but it's. like hold on they're kind of making. money from both sides here and for me it.

it just highlighted you know um it was a. this was all really for me like a. symptom of of a system failure where you. know there are all these concealed. conflicts of interest people are being. selective with the information they put. out and ultimately uh the root of the. problem Joe is that these big powerful. pharmaceutical companies these. corporations have more and more control. and unchecked power over these. institutions or conflicts of interest. but people don't know about it right and. when you tell people that story when I.

give talks and lectures and I bring that. up it's just pin drop silence people are. just shocked some of them are angry they. feel they've been deceived like how is. this how is this acceptable yeah how is. it. acceptable what has been the response. after that um so I think there's been a. big shift uh I think more doctors are. aware now um something unprecedented. happened around that time our Health. Watchdog National Institute of clinical. Excellence had recommended that with all.

after all this publicity that we should. General Practitioners should be. financially incentivized to prescribe. statins for people at low risk of heart. disease even though we this data was. very clear and I'd been on the TV and. then carried on that campaign and. talking about this stuff and the union. of general practitioners the British. medical association's General. Practitioners committee actually. revolted this has never happened before. and they said no we're not going to. accept this and they had to make a. U-turn so that for me was a victory.

based upon this sort of campaigning that. i' had been part of but now more. recently with all these excess deaths. that are happening our chief medical. officer um a a few months ago came out. and suggested that one of the reasons. there's been these excess cardiac death. is because people aren't taking their. statins which was then refuted because. Carl henigan who's the director of. center of evidence based medicine Oxford. um he's non-conflicted they don't take. any from money from industry very. rigorous uh uh guy in terms of the way.

he does his analysis and his Department. showed that that wasn't the case and uh. you know I think that maybe was part of. a distraction but there is still now a. push again to get more people on statins. and I suspect a lot of it is because you. know if you think of the business model. of the drug industry it is to get as. many people taking as many drugs as. possible for as long as. possible uh 201 um 18 I asked to go to.

the Cambridge University Union by the. bmj to be part of a team to debate with. astroica and I end up debating with the. CEO of astroica and the motion put. forward which was debated in Cambridge. University was from them we need more. people taking more drugs that was their. motion and um it was just yeah so so. that's their business model Joe people. need to understand understand what we're. up against here but that isn't the. solution to good health in fact.

overmedicated population now is a big. it's a Public Health crisis even pre-. pandemic uh one estimate uh from Peter. goer who was a co-founder of the very. prestigious independent cocheran. collaboration in the bmj suggests that. the third most common cause of death now. globally after heart disease and and. cancer is prescribed. medications what your doctor prescribes. for you mainly because of avoidable side. effects and these are avoidable because. the decision- making and the.

prescription often doesn't involved. informed consent and when you tell. people the full benefits and harms in. absolute terms of drugs mostly they. they're more conservative they're less. lik to take the pills but also the. information that doctors are using to. make clinical decisions are based upon. these industry sponsored trials where. they keep their data commercially. confidential which ultimately means that. the safety and the benefits are grossly. exaggerated yeah John Abramson explained.

to me how peer review is done on trials. that are coming straight from. pharmaceutical drug companies that you. don't really get access to the data. itself you get access to the. pharmaceutical companies analysis of. that. data yes that's absolutely true so so. that sounds insane it is completely. insane completely insane that sounds so. obviously compromised it's not. scientific really it's not ethical. right right and I'm a I'm a Believer in.

true democracy is not Democratic you. know if I when I tell my patients I have. conversations with my patients about. this stuff all the time and just ask. them what they think and they just. they're shocked most doctors even I was. not aware of this um Joe until I really. looked into it properly you know I was. just the conventional doctor doing his. job who took the Publications in the. Lancet in the new Journal of Medicine. you know as gospel truth biblical gospel. truth never questioned it. and now you know I look to people like.

John aidis um who you may be familiar. with so he's a professor of medicine at. Stanford he's the most cited medical. researcher in the world you know he's. considered a medical genius very high in. scientific integrity and he wrote a. paper uh 2006 I think it was in plus one. which was entitled why most published. research findings are false and one of. the things he writes in there with his. own mathematical modeling of the. reliability of research and this is. fascinating he says the greater the.

financial interests in a given field the. less likely the research findings are to. be true. wow so in in your estimation is this. just a fundamental aspect of unchecked. power and influence where the industry. exists primarily to make money they. provide these drugs many of them are. beneficial but their overall goal is not.

Public Health their overall goal is. making exorbitant amounts of money they. have a responsibility to their. shareholders they have a responsibility. to the corporation and that. responsibility is to make more money and. they will do what it takes to do that. including compromising Physicians. compromising researchers compromising. journals. and that this is just you there's not a.

lot of recourse for the person like. yourself that steps out you stick your. neck out there and you get attacked and. fortunately for you you had all your. bases covered and the data was so. obvious that you were able to survive. this but for the most part most. Physicians most doctors most clinicians. they don't want to get involved in that. and so they to the line yeah I think you. knit the hit the nail in the head so.

let's give it some context here as well. um so yes legal responsibility to. provide profit for shareholders not to. give you the best treatment but the real. scandals are that those with a. responsibility Joe to Scientific. Integrity academic institutions Doctors. Medical. journals collude with industry for. financial. gain and the the quite often the and and. I know you discussed you know in detail. around the whole viak scandal with John.

but quite often the way that these big. corporations operate as legal entities. I'm not pointing fingers at people. within them you know I met Pascal soris. had dinner with him who's a CEO of. astrogenic you know um uh he even sent. me a book afterwards you know to my home. address he knows where I live so I. better be careful uh but he seemed like. a nice guy right but in their roles they. have they they are only responsible to. their sharehold holders but the problem. is and we see this.

historically is quite often and Dr. Robert hair is a forensic psychologist. who was behind the original. International we called DSM criteria for. psychopathy and he says that as these. legal entities quite often in the way. they conduct their business actually. fulfill the criteria for psychopath so. callous unconcern for the feelings of. others incapacity to experience guilt. deceitfulness conning others for profit. and we have precedent we have history of. that you know between.

200 uh 3 and. 2016 most of the top 10 um most of the. top 10 drug companies paid fines. totaling about $33 billion for illegal. marketing of drugs hiding data on harms. manipulation of results and you know uh. and when those crimes were committed in. most cases they end up making more. profit from sales of the drugs than they. do from the fin the fines like so. there's no incentive to stop doing what. they're doing and ultimately you know. the patients suffer but I don't want to.

throw the baby out with the bath water. here because someone might say well hold. on Dr mahotra but aren't the drug. industry responsible for all these. life-saving treatments and blah BL blah. and yes they are but the question is. what is the net effect of them so if you. look at um in the last 20 years so I'll. just take give you some examples here. between 2000 2008 of the 667 drugs. approved by the FDA only 70 75% of them. were found to be copies of old ones so. the drug companies will change a few.

molecules here and there on an old drug. Rebrand it rename it patent it make lots. of money and then they move on and they. move on to the next one right so this. huge waste only 11% of them were found. to be truly Innovative as in a. therapeutic clinical benefit over the. previous drug so there's all this waste. in France something similar between 201. 2011 of almost 1,000 drugs were approved. by their. regulator um again most of them are. copies of old ones. but about double the amount of drugs Joe.

15% of those drugs were approved were. found to be more harmful than beneficial. compared to about 8% of therapeutic. benefit so what does that mean when you. look at it its totality with the waste. and the harm the overall net effect of. the drug industry in my view on society. in the last two decades has been a. negative. one. wow that's hard to. swallow and and you know one of the. reasons it's hard to swallow there's. something sociocultural which we don't. talk enough about so a lot of people.

believe in medicine and think it's an. exact science but it's not an exact. science it's an applied science it's a. science of human beings it's a social. science it's a constantly evolving. science we're taught in medical school. 50% of what you. learn is going to turn out to be either. outdated or dead wrong within 5 years of. your graduation the trouble is nobody. can tell you which half so you have to. learn to learn on your own. and you have to stick your neck out. because you're going.

against whatever the narrative is you do. but that's you know um ultimately for me. everything I do is motivated by that. patient in front of me in the. consultation room you know that person. suffered unnecessarily who didn't need. to be there all of these external. factors that influence their health. whether it's an ultra processed food. environment whether it's a pill taking a. pill they don't need and um and and we. see that you know we now see that in the. world um you know United States have. you've lost two years off your life. expectancy in the last few years in the. in the UK since 2010 Joe we've had a.

leveling off a stalling of life. expectancy and an increase in people. living with chronic. disease so for me as a doctor I think to. myself hold on a minute you know fine. this is multifactorial but if we as a. profession collectively we're doing. everything right according to the best. available evidence why are our patients. getting sicker don't we have a. responsibility to understand why and. then do something about. it yeah I would imagine you do so that's.

for me that's that's that's what that's. what drives me um and you know one of. the things I was thinking about as well. if you I've come up with this new term. and it's a derivation of something. called commercial determents of Health. right so I like this definition. commercial determents of Health are this. strategies and approaches adopted by the. private sector to promote products. products and choices that are. detrimental to health right and that can. apply to to medications it can apply to. ultrapress food which is addictive for a.

lot of people right um but what I've. come up with when you think about the. drug industry and what Dr Robert hair. talks about Psychopathic is something. called the psychopathic determinance of. health and you know uh Richard Horton. who's the editor of Atlantic actually. came to one of my lectures in London. recently then he referenced me talking. about this in one of his pieces it. wasn't a completely positive piece on me. I'll be honest with a little bit of a. subtle Hatchet job um but he talked. about you know motra talks about the. psychopathic determins of Health if you. think conceptually Joe we talk about.

these very powerful entities that have a. big influence on our lives and if they. are. Psychopathic you know it doesn't take a. rocket scientist to figure out that's. going to have a downstream effect on. society that's going to be. negative culturally you know people. staying silent when they should be. speaking up um you know I I've been. contacted by doctors who agree with me. privately but say I wouldn't say that or. uh and uh and this is this is what what. we're having to deal with now and this.

is they've they've got more power than. they've ever had I think Joe over our. lives and influence and uh if a. psychopathic entity has so much power. and control over our lives of course. it's going to be negative and we need to. basically fight back so this sort of. established. your hesitancy to just believe whatever. the narrative that's being described by. the the industry by the medical industry.

so you had questions now coming into. covid did you have those initial fears. or questions about the. vaccine at the very beginning I had a. little bit of skepticism about the. efficacy of the vaccine because we know. traditionally vaccines for respiratory. viruses like influenza are not that. great but I didn't so with all of this.

knowledge and background knowledge I. honestly treated vaccines or the word. vaccine like Hoy Grail despite all of. this stuff around overmedicated. population all these pills people are. taking whether it's blood pressure pills. they don't need or statins or even. diabetes drugs that don't have much. benefit for them um and come with side. effects for me still within all of that. vaccines are amongst the safest so I. never conceived of the possibility at. all actually of a vaccine doing any harm. even knowing that this is a completely.

different vaccine that that has. nothing's ever been distributed like. this with these numbers so so I know. that now but at the time you know I. hadn't focused my attention specifically. on on the vaccines at all so you're what. you're saying makes sense but at the. very beginning you know um I I was I I. deferred to vaccine Specialists and. immunologists and people I thought that. you know didn't probably have conflicts. who were all saying this this is fine so. I hadn't looked at it in that much. detail and I just made the presumption.

that this was going to be safe don't. know how effective it was going to be. but it was going to be safe and as a. result um and some of it was also you. know so during the covid pandemic I was. very outspoken making the link between. obesity and poor covid outcomes uh in. fact to the point where you know I was. getting pretty mad that there wasn't. enough coverage on this like we've got. this pandemic that affects you know. disproportionately affects the elderly. there's no doubt about it the very. beginning it was particularly. devastating for older people but there. was like a thousandfold gradient.

difference in Risk if you were young. versus old like even now even early on. you know John ID's J bataria they did. these analysis essentially suggesting. that for younger people it was actually. less lethal than the flu but for older. people very old people it was it was it. was quite bad at the beginning so I I. noticed this link with obesity and I. said listen you know this is my work. over many years one of the things I also. advocate for is that to for people to. understand that if you change your diet. just within a few weeks. depending where you're starting from you. can potentially even send your type 2. diabetes into remission you can reverse.

the most important risk factors for. heart disease so I knew that if if. people were told that when this when. this virus was you know when the. pandemic started this was an opportunity. actually we already had this slow. pandemic of chronic disease which we. hadn't effectively curbed anyway this is. a great opportunity for government to. say listen guys now it's this is a time. to sort your diet out take vitamin D you. know really just optimize your immune. system and it wasn't happening so but in. all of that I looked at all of the risk.

as well and um it was clear that this. was you know not very risky for people. who were my age you know um 20 I'm 45. now so what I was what. 43 uh you know 42 43 when when the whole. vaccine roll out started my father who. was a um retired general practitioner. but vice president of British Medical. Association very prominent doctor in the. UK um he and this gets into the. emotional side a little bit cuz you know. I think this this is uh is relevant um.

he was very keen that I take the vaccine. and I think it was because he had an. exaggerated fear for me right like many. people had um we'd lost our mother just. a few years earlier I lost my brother. when I was young so I was his only. surviving immediate me family member and. he had this and he was see you need to. take the vaccine no please please please. I said dad you know I don't really need. it you know no no no take it take it. just went back and forth and said okay. fine I'll I'll have it but I I thought. anyway as a doctor I'm going to take it. I'm going to protect my patients you.

know let's see what happens so I took. the vaccine and then about a month later. a film director friend of mine ginda. Chad you might be familiar with some of. her work um bendit light Beckham it's a. movie she did Blinded By the Light which. is about brce Springsteen it did quite. well over here so she was sending me all. this stuff saying a see and watch about. the vaccine and it was kind of blogs and. it was stuff saying like you know. microchips depopulation agenda fertility. problems I said grinda to be honest I. was I said I don't think there's any any. real good evidence here I think this is. scare. mongering and I said you know I think.

you're high risk you're type 2 diabetic. you're overweight Etc I think you should. have it so she said great you know she. trusted me so she took the vaccine and. then she tweeted it out and the next. thing I'm on Good Morning Britain in. February 2021 asked to tackle vaccine. hesitancy which was higher amongst. people from ethnic minority backgrounds. I think it's probably similar in the. states as well one of the reasons for. that as well by the way Joe is that a. lot of people from the those those. backgrounds are from poorer background. and um understandably they have less. trust in government you know they're the.

neglected people in society in many ways. so you can see why they felt that way. and I went on Good Morning Britain I. didn't point fingers and said my God. these people are crazy whatever else I. said listen let's understand that there. are rational reasons why people don't. want to take the vaccine look at the. history of the drug industry for the. last several decades and amount of fraud. I think they wouldn't expecting me to. say this right I said think about all. the fraud they've committed um I. understand that but I said having said. that when you look at traditional. vaccines there are some of the safest. and that's kind of pretty much where I. left it at a time Joe when we were only.

in the. UK at that point there was only the. recommendation for the vaccine to be. given to people at high risk I never. expect even then like friends were. calling me and young I said no you don't. need to take it if you're under 50. you're fit and healthy no no even at. that time but this is just for high-risk. people so I took it U I swallowed the. pill and um and then yeah I mean things. changed very dramatically within a few. months did you have any adverse side. effects I. did I did um and again I didn't fully.

appreciate it at the time but now I know. the mechanism of harm uh it makes sense. so I actually within so I'm very much. into my fitness Joe I've been like you. know I captain sports teams at school. University I'm an obsessive exerciser. like every day you know I don't feel. good if I haven't gone to the gym and. done something you know almost every day. I started noticing within a few weeks. that my energy level started to get. depleted quite significantly my sleep. was Disturbed and and then I went into. clinical. depression I was diagnosed with clinical.

depression um didn't take any pills it. was probably mild to moderate over a few. months so when you say diagnosed with. clinical depression what's the. parameters like how is that defined yeah. so uh in so clinical depression you. usually have to have a number of. symptoms that are persistent for at. least two weeks so these are things like. something called early morning a. wakening low mood you know lack of of. energy um uh negative thoughts for the. future there's lots of different.

criteria and one of my one of my family. friends actually is a. psychiatrist um and I spoke to him about. it and you know he said yeah yeah this. is this is depression so yeah so I but. the one thing I noticed more than. anything else is my energy levels were I. I couldn't like I'm a very active. energetic guy and I just couldn't leave. the house I didn't I couldn't leave the. couch I was completely. depleted and what do you think you you. believe it's a side effect of the. vaccine but what what's the mechanism.

well we know now one of the problems of. the vaccine is that the spike protein. and there's different theories around. this from the vaccine that's injected. into the arm gets distributed throughout. the body and can be there for up to four. months um uh and what happens is it. causes either direct and this's. published data on this a direct Toxic. effect to the tissues or an autoimmune. reaction so we're talking about the. brain the heart the kidneys the liver. the ovaries and the. testes and that's probably the mechanism.

of action and in fact this is not you. know um interestingly you know one of. the side effects from a World Health. Organization endorsed list which I. reference in my peer-reviewed paper. which we'll talk about later actually. puts in there. psychosis as one of the side effects of. the vaccine and there are case reports. in people who went psychotic actually. because of it so a significant number um. well we don't know we don't know the. exact numbers but one of the the.

reanalysis of fisa's own trial by. independent researches published in. journal vaccine one of this in the. clinical trial itself one of the severe. adverse effects was in the clinical. trial was psychosis at least in one. patient so for you with your case how. long did you suffer from these. symptoms about three months I mean I I I. went to um I went to a psychologist I. had cogn I didn't want to take pills so. I went to psychologist I I I had. cognitive behavioral therapy I started.

to just focus on going back to the. basics getting good sleep resting Etc. and I came out of it you know I came out. of it slowly I start getting my energy. levels back took about 3 months 3 to. four months did you experience any. Cardiology issues was there there. anything with your heart rate was there. anything with your immune system no no I. didn't Joe I had two doses I didn't get. any of that stuff no I didn't um uh but. then what happened.

was just when I'm coming out of the. clinical depression I'm starting to feel. better and I told my dad about it you. know my dad was you know we were very. very close so he knew everything that. was happening um you know one of the. things by the way uh one of the you know. when people go into clinical depression. one of the symptoms is suicidal. ideation as in thoughts about committing. suicide that's actually one of the. symptoms and I remember going for a walk. with him I was feeling so low and uh you.

know i' went up to visit him in. Manchester and I just said to him I said. yeah I you know I'm having a thought of. just you know going and um jumping in. front of a car it was it was fleeting I. wasn't going to do it but that I knew. that I was that depressed that I was. even to have even that thought entering. your mind but anyway I you know I'm a. resilient tough guy I just I just wrote. I knew was going to get better I just. had hope and I got better slowly with. time and when I came out of it that's.

when you know I a real sort of tragedy. hit me again um uh because me and my dad. were still also mourning the loss of my. mom it had only been about two and a. half years since my mom died um and uh I. I get a it was I'll never forget this. July the 26th 5:00 p.m. 2021 my dad. calls me and he says as seem I've got. chest discomfort. and in medicine 80% of your if you're a. good doctor 80% of your diagnosis comes.

from the history if you listen to your. patient then you will get the diagnosis. just from that. discussion uh if you know you know from. symptoms you know you can usually and he. said and what he described sounded. cardiac which is typically he said I. seem he's a doctor but he was obviously. a little bit concerned I said tell me. about it he said I said how bad is it. out 10 he said like six out of 10. feeling a bit sweaty I've got an ache in. the center of my chest I said is it. going anywhere I said yeah to both. shoulders and for me I was like okay. didn't sound like an over massive heart. attack but it was concerning I said how.

long have you had it for he said I've. had it for probably at least 20 to 30. minutes I said okay I said Dad you need. to call an ambulance now I don't want to. scare him I said you need an ECG. straight away right you need an EKG to. see whether this an acute heart attack. but you need to call an ambulance and he. was reluctant um you know I don't know. why NHS was under pressure he didn't. want to just he thought you know he. thought that maybe he was you know it. was nothing major and I said no listen I. don't hopefully it's nothing major but. you need an ECG you need to call an.

ambulance 999 and he didn't want to do. it so it was a back and forth. conversation I call one of his best. friends who lives near him he was a. doctor as well I said listen you need to. go and see Dad and he was busy with. something but he said listen I'll call. him and in the end what he did was he. called um two of his neighbors who are. both doctors who happened to be home I. think they'd finished work and uh so I. get in the shower I said listen I'm. going to get on the train and come up I. get in the shower. come out of the shower um I call him. back you know cuz I was about to just I.

was just changing getting ready to get. on a train and there's no. answer I keep calling no. answer then one of uh his neighbors a. doctor she answered the phone and she's. hysterical and she says aim your. father's had a cardiac arrest and we're. doing. CPR now I went into kind of Cardiology. tried to take control of the situation. be as calm as possible mode and I said. tell me what happened said well we. walked in we saw him he was a little bit. sweaty my husband husband's in eest he.

was there he'd already called an. ambulance you know uh called 999 and was. on the phone and while he's on the phone. to the ambulance my dad just kills over. now Joe I've done a lot of work and even. published on out of Hospital cardiac. arrests and what determines survival and. if you are going to have a cardiac. arrest if you are unlucky enough to have. it you are super lucky if you it's. witnessed by two doctors who are going. to do CPR and an ambulance has already.

been called and we know the ambulance. response times in the UK have and I've. published on this stuff is almost within. 8 to 10 minutes in these sorts of calls. they will be there and your chances of. survival are high in that situation. right you've got cprs witnessed and they. usually get a defibrillator on you. within 10 minutes you've got probably. more than a 50% chance of. surviving ambulance didn't show for 30. minutes. and I remember just FaceTiming them and.

they put the cardiac monitor on and it. was a flat line and I said there's. nothing to do here Don't They carried on. I said no just stop you know I've LED. Cardiac Arrest team so I know there's no. point just jumping on his chest now. there's nothing that we can do here uh. and and it was it was shocking beyond. belief I couldn't I couldn't understand. it my dad was a very fit 73y old you. know he would out I mean I consider. myself quite athletic you know and he. would outwalk me when we were going for. walks during lockdown he was very active. mentally he was on TV talking about. lockdowns and whatever else and um it. didn't make any sense so I two things.

happened first and foremost I organized. a postmortem but they then also. investigated like how's this happened. why is it happen it's taking 30 minutes. to to to get there and this links back. to some of my earlier work in terms of. speaking out if you like being a. whistleblower so I get contacted about. two weeks later because I tweeted it out. you know my dad was a well-known doctor. it was big news storying the guardian. you know the mayor of Manchester who was. friends with him I mean my dad was a. wonderful human said you know we've lost. one of the kindest souls to ever walk. the earth I mean he was that kind of.

human he was that well loved and liked. by people and um I I got a phone call. from somebody senior in the health. department linked to the government. called NHS England and she was crying. she was a nurse senior nurse and she. knew my dad and said it seem is. something I've got to tell you I said. what is it she says the Department of. Health the government had known for at. least for several weeks throughout the. whole. country that um ambulances were not.

getting anywhere close to their targets. for treating people for heart attacks or. Cardiac Arrest but had made a decision. to deliberately withhold that. information and for me that you know. that that was um that was quite. upsetting because if I had known that if. we had known that I wouldn't have asked. him to call an ambulance you know the. neighbors could have the the nearest. hospital was like a 5minute drive Joe. they would have you know he would have. somebody would have taken him there even.

if he had a cardiac asteron route they. would have been able to get to differ. and he probably would have survived so I. thought this is you know I need to do. something about this people need to know. because it was still kept hidden so I I. with a a journalist in the in the UK. called Paul Gallagher with the ey I've. done a lot of work with him great. journalist he then started doing in. freedom information requests getting. information from the ambulance service. trying to find out what happened etc etc. and we determined that this was the case. that there was all these delay and it. been going for a long time and then I. wrote an article in the I newspaper it. became a BBC news.

story but just before I published it I. contacted a cardiologist who I consider. to be one of the good guys Joe and again. I won't name him it's I think it's. unfair to name him and I said Prof I. call him Prof I said I just want you to. know this is what's happened happening. you should be aware of this um and I'm. going to you know get it out to the. public people need to know you know this. is a big problem because it it might. change things a little bit it's not but. at least we highlight the problem and. try and find Solutions and people then. in these similar situations one of the.

interesting things is this nurse that. called me said to me that two weeks. earlier her own husband was playing. soccer and came back from soccer with. chest pain she didn't even bother. calling the ambulance is before my dad. had his Cardiac Arrest because she knew. it wasn't going to get there she got him. in the car drove down the the highway. the freeway to n's Hospital into the. accident emergency department and they. diagnosed an acute heart attack and took. him for emergency khole heart surgery. you know so so she knew this stuff and. did didn't you know obviously call an.

ambulance so I I told this to this. professor of Cardiology in a text. message and you know what he replied to. me I see I wouldn't publicize this if I. were you you're only going to make. yourself. enemies and I want to do whatever I can. to help you get a job back in the NHS. right because by this stage I wasn't. work working the NHS I was only doing. private care and I said Prof what about. our duty to the public and to patients. no answer why am I telling you this Joe. remember earlier on I talked about the. so-called Psychopathic determinance of. Health yes there is a cultural problem.

in our. profession where people are afraid to. speak out for their patients um even if. it's something that's important and true. so what does medicine become when. doctors can't even speak the truth but I. didn't care for me this was more. important than anything so I got this. out and it became a new story and I was. interviewed by the BBC and it was a big. you know and then and after that all. these stories start coming out you know. I made the so-call Injustice visible. through the mainstream. um but it still bugged me you know how. did my dad have a cardia arrest so his.

postmortem finding CES findings came. back and he two of his three major. arteres were severely narrowed right. critically narrowed 90% in what we call. the left anterior descending archery the. most important archery to the heart and. the right coronary archery and I thought. this is. weird I knew my dad's lifestyle inside. out I knew his cardiac history inside. out there was no cardiac history he had. something called a calcium score done. few years earlier he had blood flow to. his arteries were all normal this is a. guy that only two years earlier on a.

Badman I was Manchester Champion schools. champion in badminton right singles. badminton don't if you ever played it. but it's a very it's like playing. basketball for a card basket system it's. really heavy and for the first time in. God knows um probably about 30 years he. had he beat me in the first game 151 and. I was like my God how is my dad beating. me here you know we were very. competitive with each other I mean it. was we played for an hour and at theend. almost at the end of the hour Joe I got. back in it was like tied I ruptured my.

achilles right it was that bad and I was. about to tweet and just share I like I'm. really proud of my 73y old dad he. literally almost beat me in badminton. right he was that fit so it didn't make. any. sense. so severe narrowings and I'm just okay. what was it was he really stressed you. know stress by the way severe. psychological stress can can can cause. these sorts of issues with the heart but. again didn't didn't didn't buy it. and then October November. 2021 I get alerted from a cardiologist.

friend of mine who who's one of the. smartest cardiologists in the country I. think I mean he's a brilliant mind and. he sends me an abstract from uh. circulation Cardiology Journal done by. Steven gundry who's a cardiothoracic. surgeon I think based in New. York and I read this abstract and I'm. like wow and what he found was in he'd. been following up several hundred people. in their 50. with um a test that he does called the. pulse score which correlates the blood.

test and it measures markers of. inflammation in the blood Joe which have. been validated and correlated with heart. disease risk and heart attack risk and. what he found was that within 8 to 10. weeks of these patients taking the madna. or fisa vaccine mRNA vaccines those. markers of inflammation in the blood had. increased to a level where their risk of. a heart attack went from 11% at 5 years. just within two months to.

25% which is a huge J like to give it. context if I today decided I was going. to smoke 40 cigarettes a day eat junk. food you know hammer it all night not. sleep um stop exercising I couldn't even. get a close to increasing my risk that. much in two months now it's one bit of. data and of course in medicine which I. which we've talked about is not an exact. science you never rely just on one bit. of data you look at other bits of data. as well and and what kind of picture.

does all the information start. painting So at that point I was like. okay now I can understand there's. something now that fits with what. happened to my dad but if this is real. this is going to be a problem because I. know you're essentially for populations. of people who may not know they've got a. little bit a mile furing that isn't. going to cause them for 20 years. suddenly you're going to get an increase. in heart attacks much more quickly. then what happened was I got contacted. it all happened within a few weeks a. journalist I think it was from the.

telegraph or the times I can't remember. asked me to times asked me to comment on. the fact there had been an unexplained. increase about 25% increase in heart. attacks in Scotland in hospitals that. people can't explain so they said Dr mot. to what he thinks going on um and then. the third thing that happened was I was. um a whistleblower from a prestigious. University in the UK contacted me. cardiologist and he said to me he was. very upset he said said it seems. something I've got to tell you I don't. know what to do but I I need to tell you. this I said what is it he say This.

research group had accidentally found. with the use of coronary Imaging. techniques so this is specialized. high-tech scans of the arteries of the. heart that in the vaccinated there was. increased inflammation of the arteries. of the heart and it wasn't there in the. unvaccinated which again would increase. heart attack risk but they had a Clos. meeting and said we're not going to. publish these findings or talk about it. further because may affect our funding. from the drug.

industry and I at this stage Jo I was. like okay now I've got three bits of. data there's enough here for him to at. least ask the question so I go and one. of the more semi- mainstream news. channels in the UK is called GB news and. uh I went to them I said listen. something I want to talk about I said. you know I've done stuff with them. before uh and basically and they said. come on let's talk about it so I talked. about this on GB news and it went viral. you know and I didn't say stop the. vaccine or whatever I said listen. there's a signal here that needs to be. looked into we've got these unexplained.

heart attacks happening we've got this. evidence from circulation I've been told. by this. whistleblower let's look at this a bit. further and um what happened then was. just so bizarre uh it was almost around. the same time I don't know if it was. maybe it may have been just after that. showe our secretary state for health. sadja Javid gets up in Parliament and. says I've decided to pass we need to. pass. legislation to ensure that all.

healthcare. workers get vaccinated and if they don't. they lose their job now we've never done. that in this country I know you've had. maybe mandates for other things we never. mandate any medical intervention in the. UK we've never done that before I. thought this is odd I said right now. first and foremost by the stage Joe we. knew it wasn't stopping. transmission right it probably wasn't. going to stop infection either you know. the narrative kept changing we were told. it was going to stop infection now it's. going to prevent you having severe. disease you know it kept changing I said. this is should be an individual choice.

now there's no you know healthcare. workers are not protecting their. patients by being vaccinated they may be. protecting themselves we'll get we'll. get on that data shortly but they're not. protecting their patients therefore. there's no reason you know we shouldn't. mandate this so then I I literally. launched into this I I was still. interestingly at that point getting. mainstream media interviews because. people wanted to talk about what. happened to my dad in the ambulance. delays so I went on BBC News and I got. it in there I said by the way guys you. know you know cuz I said Dr Mar what's. behind our Healthcare crisis I said well.

you know we've been talking about this. for years we've not tackled prevention. we've gotten this obesity epidemic right. and and that's putting more and more. stress on the system and has been for a. long time without any more resources. we've got an overmedicated population. we've not dealt with that you know up to. one in five people over the age of 65. are hospitalized Joe because of side. effects right and I said but there's. something else we should talk about as. well we could lose 8 ,000 jobs in the. NHS if we mandate this vaccine and. people decide not to take it and that. will be a disaster but it's not.

scientific and it's not ethical and then. they would kind of cut me off at the end. and then I was on Sky News so I kept. doing this and then I thought you know. what I I'm don't just believe in public. health advocacy I'm somebody also that. does things behind the scenes I meet. politicians I've worked with people in. very senior positions in the Health. Service in health policy I've had roles. with those people I believe in dialogue. and conversations and giving people the. benefit of the doubt and understanding. they may be ignorant or have the. illusion of knowledge let's have a. conversation with them so I called up. the chair of the British Medical.

Association and uh I was in America at. the time i' I'd come because I live. alone now right so I lost all my family. and I and I my closest family are in. California and they said aim just come. and spend a couple of months with us so. I get to the states around end of. November 2021 and the first thing that. happens is I get an email from a very. prestigious medical body I'm associated. with I won't name them and they say Dr. mher we've received a number of. anonymous complaints from doctors that. you are spreading antiva. disinformation purely upon that.

interview on GB news where I said. there's a signal we need to look into it. that's all I did so I was like Jesus you. know really and it was obviously. stressful I had to respond and it took a. month and they left me with a warning at. that point but I realized something else. was going on here so I called up the. chair of the BMA his name's Chan. NP and I said Chan I need to talk to you. and he listened for 2 hours I talked him. through through every bit of data that. I'd come across and things about the. vaccine he said a seem he said I'll be. honest with you he said nobody I've.

spoken to in health policy my colleagues. appears to have critically apprais the. evidence as well as you. have most of them are getting their. information on the benefits and harms of. the vaccine from the. BBC wow now that is. replicated if you remember relle. wilinsky a former chair of the CDC she. said in an interview former director of. CDC that her optimism from the vaccine.

came from. CNN right and that CNN news report right. that she was referring to Joe was almost. verbatim a reproduction of fizer's own. press. release wow that's some great journalism. well it tells you something else I think. that we we shouldn't underes the impact. of the mainstream media in influencing. people's decision Mak even people who.

you think should have better information. or know better right right and and that. you know that's what it showed so he. said listen Okay Asim I'm with you uh. the medical or colleges and the BMA. anyway didn't support mandates they were. kind of Silent about it they weren't. proactive I was probably one of the. there was a few campaigning doctors in. the UK and an organization called. together declaration that got involved. in it and I went on the full offensive. you know through social media through. mainstream media and said we need to get. this overturned I had people nurses and. doctors who almost in tears contacted me. who were unvaccinated and I said listen. hold firm you know they passed this in.

Parliament most of the MPS voted for it. it was going to be in legislation and I. said hold fire this is not going to. happen do not get vaccinated if you. don't want to get vaccinated and. literally last minute like a week before. this was going to become come into. effect where people would lose their. jobs um the chair of the BMA was. speaking to saag Javid after speaking to. me I and and and all these people. campaign and we got it overturned wow. and you know for me one of the most. satisfying things I've been involved.

with is is helping to save in effect. these tens of thousands of jobs in the. NHS especially because it wasn't. scientific it wasn't ethical to do so. and because it wasn't scientific and. because there was now evidence that it. didn't stop transmission and it probably. wasn't going to stop. infection what was the narrative that. you were given as to why this should. still be. promoted well there wasn't really.

anything Joe it didn't make any sense to. me um the chief medical officer was. still saying the same thing though so he. was still Tweeting out even before they. decided they were going to you know and. even after they overturn this um uh. mandate decision for healthcare workers. he was tweeting out the best thing you. can do as a doctor to protect your. patients is get vaccinated with a covid. vaccine. yeah it didn't make any sense it was. almost like to be honest this was a kind.

the kind of narrative that was coming. out was essentially The Narrative of the. drug companies but coming through. so-called credible voices you know it. wasn't it wasn't in keeping with the. evidence it didn't make any sense um so. yes then then I decided at that point I. started to really critically appraise. the data properly and I thought there's. a big mountain to move here it's not an. easy one you know I've just gone on TV. and questioned about heart side effect. effect and suddenly one of these medical. bodies I'm affiliated with is you know. um coming after me so I thought you know.

what I'm going to do my best to what. what can I do here historically Joe over. the last 10 years I've published a lot. in different medical journals and I only. write stuff which I think's important. you know disseminating the truth some. something I believe is important for the. public and for patients and even for. doctors and almost all the every time. I've publish something and I kind of. became good at this as I've got it into. the mainstream news whether it's about. you know the harms of excess sugar or. the Statin thing or cholesterol or low. carb diets or whatever or or the the. harms potentially of vegan diets right.

I've done lots of these things and um I. thought let me try and you know publish. this in a medical journal I thought. carefully like it it wouldn't be easy to. publish something like this even if what. I'm saying is factually correct so I. went to a journal called the Journal of. in resistance it's not welln but it's a. credible journal and I spoke to the. editor often you you you just say listen. is this something you're interested in. what do you think they'll say no seem. just forget it and she was very open. right and she was very provax actually. at the time she was a bit shocked with. what I was telling her but she respects. me she knows my work over a number of.

years said listen you know seem let me. look at it and I can at least say that. I'll send it for a peer review right. there's no guarantees of anything but I. can send it for a peer review so tell me. what you've got so I spent several. months I wrote this piece Joe it was. 10,000 words that was the other thing. most journals wouldn't accept that many. words and I'd written that and it was in. two parts because I. thought people have been so. indoctrinated. with this narrative I need to walk them. through it as someone who was vaccinated. who went on Good Morning Britain right.

I'm one of you I'm not you know it'd be. less easy to attack me and to walk them. through my journey in understanding how. the data had new data had emerged that. made us think differently about what we. were told at the beginning and to break. it down in absolute terms what are the. benefits and what are the harms my dad's. story was included in that um and then. the part two was how we got it. wrong why we got it wrong and what are. the solutions moving.

forward and this journal also doesn't. take money from industry so that's why. it was non-conflicted it was open access. I wanted this to be free a lot of these. Journal articles are paywall you have to. subscribe Etc so I wanted it to be free. to everybody that's the reason I went to. this journal yeah I have a role people. have some somehow tacked me and saying. oh he's on the editorial board and stuff. like that yeah I have a role as a kind. of adviser this non-paid role whatever. it's kind of because I've done work on. this area like what kind of Articles. should we be looking at so you know they. don't normally accept articles from. people who are on the editorial board.

but they said listen you know we'll let. you do one as a one-off and uh but the. peer review process was very rigorous. I've never been threat through a. rigorous peer review back and forth lots. of changes etc etc so I published this. article uh September. 2022 and um you know I what was let me. just summarize it. Joe the reality is. this in my whole. career looking at all of the drugs and.

knowing about many different drugs that. are prescribed I've never seen something. when you look at the data which has such. poor. Effectiveness and such unprecedented. Harms in my career it's like nothing. I've ever seen before um I which was. simultaneously promoted heavily not just. promoted it coerced yeah. mandate so the the key bit of data right. people say oh lots of data cherry.

picking blah. blah just one bit of data alone should. be enough to people to to stop and think. oh my God this is just. unbelievable so in the summer towards. the end of last year second half of last. year the journal vaccine peer rreview. this is like the highest impact medical. journal for vaccines right they. published a reanalysis of fiser and MNA. original double blinded randomized. control trials so this is the level the. highest quality level of evidence okay.

with all the caveats drug and isy. sponsored all that stuff right but still. the what we call the highest quality. level of evidence done by independent. researchers Joseph freman uh from. Louisiana he's an ER doctor clinical. data scientist associate editor of the. bmj Peter doshy Robert Kaplan from. Stanford right some very eminent in. terms Eminence of Integrity right I'm. not for eminence-based medicine but and. for people who have Eminence of. Integrity right they publish this fre. analysis and what they found was this in.

the trials that led to the approval by. The Regulators we'll get on to. Regulators in a minute around the world. you are more likely to suffer a serious. adverse event from taking the vaccine. hospitalization disability life-changing. event then you were to be hospitalized. with. covid so what that means. is it's highly likely this vaccine mRNA. vaccine should never have been approved. for a single human in the first place. and that rate of serious Adverse Events.

Joe is one 800 and it's at least 1 in. 800 because that just covers the first. two months of the trial it um in general. what happens is drug companies design. trials where they choose people who are. less likely to get side effects so. they're generally healthier right and. then because it's the first two months. and I found a mechanism of harm with. accelerated heart disease like my dad. died 6 months after two dos of of the. vaccine and we have autopsy studies now. showing that that that's what's H that. can happen several months after um yeah.

it it's it's just it's it Beggars belief. and uh and that you know I I published. this information and then's been an. evolution so the question now I think. people what we want to do like we talk. about statins right same sort of thing. same sort of concept concept what is. your individual benefit in absolute. terms so there's a table actually I I. shared it with um with Jamie earlier I. don't know if we can bring it up cuz I. think it' be nice to see it so the UK. government only um earlier this year.

about two or 3 months ago I think this. the first country in the world to. publish that substantial data they. released information looking at per. million people vaccinated versus per. million people unvaccinated by age group. okay during the Omicron strain right so. this is UK government data so table for. it says numbers needed to vaccinate for. prevention of severe hospitalization. okay from two of fiser so if you look at. the First Column Joe if you're. 70 you have to vaccinate 2,500 people to. prevent one person being hospitalized.

with severe. covid if you're 60 5,700 you start. getting lower age groups 30 87,00 for. example if you're 20 to 29 over 100 well. over 100,000 people I mean this efficacy. level Effectiveness level is just it's. if it wasn't so serious it would be. laughable and this is just to prevent. severe hospitalization again it does not. stop infection it does not stop. transmission absolutely not and so there.

is some benefit of preventing severe. hospitalization well yes but the thing. is this is what we call non-randomized. data and remember earlier on I said to. you that if you were. unvaccinated in general you were higher. risk than people who were vaccinated. someone called healthy user bias right. right so Carl henan who's a director of. center of evidence-based medicine Oxford. and also general practice ier talked. about the fact that he had a couple of. patients who had terminal cancer for. example and didn't get vaccinated and.

then they end up dying of covid because. they were already sicker what what I'm. saying to you Joe is this is likely an. exaggerated. benefit right but when you balance that. against the harms which are consistent. of at least one in 800 after two doses. and there was some evidence that the. more doses you have the higher those. harms become it becomes a no-brainer I. mean if you ask it now if I was to ask a. and ask patients this even older is if I. give them that information in that Way. Joe most people would not take it so um. there's the informed consent issue but.

then there is the fact that you know we. consider vaccines to be completely safe. traditionally 1 1800 is a very very high. figure um we we've pulled other vaccines. for much less 1976 swine flu vaccine was. pulled because it was found to cause a. debilitating neurological condition. called GE and Barry syndrome in about. one in 100,000. people Rota virus vaccine pulled in 19. 99 suspended because it was found to. form uh cause a form of bowel. obstruction in kids in 1 in 10,000 this.

is at least 1 1800 I mean it's it's a. no-brainer so the question then is why. have we not paused it what's going on. here and I think the barrier that we've. got Joe to deal with with a lot of. people who are not enlightened or is. awake or familiar or understanding this. information it's a psychological barrier. it's not an intellectual. one right this is for. blindness you know a concept a. psychological phenomenon which we're all. capable of in different circumstances.

where human beings turn a blind eye to. the truth in order to feel safe avoid. conflict reduce anxiety and protect. Prestige and fragile egos so we've got. to deal with that right and we can see. this happening you know. um historically you know this has. happened uh in many different. circumstances um look at Hollywood and. Harvey Weinstein for example. right people kind of knew but they. didn't want to really talk about it or. they didn't want to you know but. eventually the truth comes out and then.

we have to deal with the Fallout of it. um you know the Catholic church and. child abuse pedophilia right for many so. many people knew but they buried their. heads in the sand we're dealing with a. very similar psychological phenomenon. but the other phenomenon we've got and I. think we shouldn't underestimate it is. the one of. fear right so just a few weeks ago. Isabelle oot who's a journalist in the. UK she had access to WhatsApp messages. between the secretary state for health. and other people in the cabinet and it.

was a front page of the Telegraph. newspaper at the beginning of the. pandemic and one of those messages. revealed. um we have to frighten the pants of the. public something along along those lines. right so they wanted to create this fear. and when you're under to force. compliance to force compliance and when. you're in a state of fear. psychologically Joe um two things happen. one is you're more lik to be controlled.

right and that's what they wanted but. also it inhibits your ability to engage. in critical thinking and many people are. still under fear and if you and I'm a. numbers guy I think numbers are. important I think when I have. conversations with patients I want to. break numbers down in a way that they. can understand so we all had a very. grossly exaggerated fear many people did. maybe not you Joo but many people did of. the virus at the very beginning I did at. the beginning yeah uh one survey in the. US suggested that 50% of uh American. adults thought that their risk of being.

hospitalized with covid was 50% 1 in two. when the real figure at that time was. about 1 in 100 in fact I I did a a. subsequent analysis in my paper because. a lot of my paper also focused on the. fact of lifestyle and obesity and all. those things we can do to you know. improve our immune system and at the. very early stages you know Wuhan strain. in the UK looking at middle-aged people. the risk of hospitalization if you were. an obese sedentary smoker from a poor.

background social economic background. class was about 1 in 350 something like. that if you were active not overweight. non-smoking you know healthy diet all. that kind of stuff your risk of. hospitalization was almost four to. fivefold less fivefold less so one in. 1500. wow yeah massive difference so again. that reinforces that not the way it was. described no not at all but those so.

those figures are important because. without understanding the numbers. involved the public and doctors are. vulnerable to. exploitation of their hopes and fears by. political and Commercial. interests and that's what. happened wow. what do you think history is going to. look back on this and learn how how is.

this going to be viewed do you think. that the full narrative is going to get. because this is an extraordinary time. because in this extraordinary time. there's options available like this. podcast where you can go on and you can. say these things and they'll be received. by millions of people and articles will. be written and different shows will take. clips from this and discuss it and it. can change. narratives do you think there is any.

hope that something like this which was. such an event where I don't know what. the full numbers of people worldwide who. were administered this do you know what. the numbers are I don't off the top of. my head Joe no but it's yeah billions. 100% billions of people. yeah when we look back back at this in. the future is this a cautionary tale is. this something that you think they would.

like to do again and again and again. because the profits have been. extraordinary like the profits from this. this has probably been the most. profitable thing the pharmaceutical drug. companies have ever been involved with. for if you talk about a time. duration hundred billion dollar fiser. have made from this vaccine which in my. view should never have been improved for. a single human not even old people not. not even like great question yeah great.

question. so I think there is a case to be made. Joe at the very beginning during the. original strain the Wuhan strain when it. was particularly terrible that the older. people over 70s and the. vulnerable may have had more benefit. than harm I think that there's a good. case to be made there okay so is this. all vulnerable people older people. plus obese people what about people with. immune systems that were compromised. already yeah so the only problem with.

the immune systems that are compromised. already is that that for the. effectiveness of a vaccine you already. you need to have a reasonably good. functioning immune system so people who. have compromised immune system it's a. very gray area about how much benefit. they get but let's just say let's just. for argument sake say yes that the. benefits outweigh the Harms in those. groups okay I think that becomes. irrelevant when you've got a serious. adverse event rate which is so high. which normally wouldn't irrespective. even if the benefits outweigh the harms. and also what about the informed consent. side so let's say for example we.

calculated that actually your benefit. from the from the vaccine in preventing. being hospitalized with covid was say. one in 200 right but then I said to you. Jo so your benefits about 1 in2 200 but. the harm seem to be at least early on so. the shortterm harms are 1 in 800 at. least now we can make an individual. choice but my guess is and my own. experience with p. even with that information where there. still you can argue the benefits. outweigh the harms the harms are so. significant in terms of numbers that.

most of those people Joe would choose. not to take the vaccine does that make. sense it does make sense and then also. there's this false narrative that was. repeated continuously continuously. during the beginning which was this was. going to stop the infection this was. going to stop you from getting others. sick you were going to do this for other. people and this was going to get us out. of this. everybody desperately wanted the. pandemic to be over it was a. psychological manipulation and there was.

also the emergency use authorization in. America where they were allowed to. distribute this vaccine. with no liability they didn't have to. worry at all about being sued for. adverse side effects and they. essentially silenced any talk of any. sort of alternative treatment because if. there is a treatment that's offered. there's an effective treatment then they. no longer can justify the emergency use. authorization is that correct absolutely.

you know but this thing even the limited. liability stuff it wasn't publicized it. wasn't on the mainstream it wasn't. discussion points in the CNN saying you. know just to let everybody know right if. you get injured by the vaccine fiser are. not liable why was that not discussed. right you the whole narrative that has. has been shaped by these corporate. interests it's very clear and well when. you've I'm sure you've seen the compil. videos the brought to you by fizer. videos where you see Anderson Cooper. brought to you by fizer and everyone. brought to you by fizer yeah yeah that's.

there's your answer yeah Absol well at. least you don't necessarily have that. the same way in the UK you have a more. of a socialized form of medicine and you. don't have advertising for. pharmaceutical drugs on television no we. don't we don't but I think it's more. behind the scenes it's like influencing. The Regulators and stuff so in effect. it's still pretty bad you know the. clinical decision- making is is is uh. more subtly driven by this commercial. interest well just with who controls.

grants and who who controls funding and. you know also being ostracized from the. community yeah you don't really have a. voice I think we're living I mean this. these times are unprecedented Joe I've. never seen anything like this and you. know to come back to your original. question about how are people going to. look at this I see this as an. opportunity you know as Einstein said. you know in every crisis lies. opportunity I think this is a time where. we are literally fighting for Humanity. we're fighting to free the world from. corporate tyranny and I think the way.

we've got here in some ways was. predictable because of that unchecked. power and I think because everybody has. been somehow affected by the vaccine. whether they took it or not if they took. it they may either have suffered a side. effect or known someone that suffered a. side effect or later on become familiar. with the fact that they were kind of. conned or duped and saying they were. going to protect other people or if they. didn't take the vaccine they were. gaslighted they couldn't travel people. lost their.

jobs and it's affected everybody pretty. much in the world so I think this truth. this ex expose if you like of this truth. will help people understand that. actually and this is what people like me. are doing and people like yourself and. is really to just highlight that this. this is a system failure you know this. is this is um. this we've got here by stealth we've got. here um because a lot of people don't.

understand these system failures that. they would not find acceptable for. example why does the FDA take 65% of its. funding from the pharmaceutical industry. why does the regulator in our country. which by the way the British Medical. Association chair didn't know until I. gave a lecture and was shocked when I. told him that 86% of the funding of the. MH in our country comes from farmer. people would find this unex acceptable. but that also means there are solutions. there are solutions moving forward where. people can feel more confident in the.

information they're getting even doctors. is likely to be clean or as clean as. possible and closer to the truth when it. comes to knowing the absolute benefits. and harms of medications so that. ultimately means uh you know changing. the lajo we've got here because of. unethical unjust unscientific laws if. you like um and when I look and Trace. the the roots of it all um this really. started the acceleration of this process. started from maybe well intentioned I.

think neoliberal economic policies. adopted by Ronald Reagan in the 80s and. Margaret Thatcher um in the UK uh. 1992 um I think it was George Busia that. then allowed uh the FDA to take money. from the drug industry before that that. it was essentially through Public. Funding um academic institutions most in. the UK now get most of their funding. from farmer when it comes to medical. research before in the 80s they didn't. so I think when people understand that.

you know uh John aidis also wrote this. great paper a few years ago called how. to survive the medical misinformation. mess and he talks about the fact in the. United States and you spend almost four. trillion more than $4 trillion dollars. on on Healthcare you know 18% of your. GDP he says that 20 to 50% of healthcare. activity in the United States um is in. appropriate wasteful and harms patients. fely gives no benefit and he said the. the re one of the reasons for what.

drives this is that the first thing is. most you know first thing is most. published research much if not most. published research is unreliable not. useful to policy makers and not good for. patients but the second bit is most. Health Care Professionals most doctors. are not aware of this they're not aware. of these system failures right don't. make the assumption that your doctor. knows about this and then then they lack. the critically critical appraisal skills. to understand the evidence and then. translate it into a way that patients. can understand and this is part of.

conditioning we're not conditioned in. medical school to think in these ways. right about informed consent about. understanding the data properly it's not. Rockets it's not difficult so there. needs to be a shift you know as well. culturally you know people need to. understand that good health in general. doesn't come out of a medicine bottle. you know what determines your health are. social conditions right the the. conditions in which we are born we grow. we live we age we work um understanding. the impact of of severe psychological. stress and how that can shorten your.

lifespan right so for example very good. paper published in nature in 2012 by. Elizabeth Blackburn Blackburn who was a. Nobel Prize winner and Lissa eel. psychologist in California was called. too toxic to ignore and they talked. about the impact of psychological stress. on genes that control the aging process. and disease and one of the things that. was really startling to me when I looked. at. is that if you are a mother of a. disabled. child the chronic stress associated with. that is the equivalent of 10 years of.

Aging wow if you're a victim of severe. psychological abuse as a child or sexual. abuse that can the extreme and knocked. knock off 20 years off your lifespan. because the disease process what happens. to the genes epigenetics manifests. itself later on I think these things are. important to discuss Joe as well because. it helps us also try and think about how. do we the conditions in society for. everybody where they have an. opportunity to be the best version of.

themselves and what do I mean by that is. have optimization of mental and physical. health now that brings me on to you know. what is health uh I'm not a big fan of. the World Health Organization these days. because I think they've been corrupted. by these commercial entities as well. right you know most of their funding now. comes with strings attached according to. Margaret Chan the former director uh. director General of the World Health. Organization you know second biggest. funer of the World Health Organization. you've talked about this before before. Bill Gates Right who's heavily invested.

in pharmaceutical industry stocks. McDonald's and. Coca-Cola so the World Health. Organization unfortunately not. independent however let's say something. positive about them they have this great. definition of. Health a state of complete. mental physical and social well-being. not merely the absence of disease or. infirmity so if we start from that place. of that definition and understand it and. also realize that you can't have optimal.

mental health without having optimal. physical health and you can't have. optimal physical health without having. optimal mental health because it's. interlined I think we then Branch out. and we think about how can we create. those conditions so that people have for. example you know the right wages you. know if you're in a low pay high demand. low Control job the impact on your. health is effectively a death sentence. you know these are the kind of. discussions we need to be having um you. know uh politically and in the medical.

establishment and with the public as. well one of the things you're doing now. um is you're helping people that may. have been injured by the vaccine and. what is available to people it's a great. question uh honest answer is it's a. moving space so. um my work has been traditionally in. looking at at how we combat chronic. disease through lifestyle many of the. people who are vulnerable to vaccine. injuries are the same people who are. vulnerable to covid right so people who.

have you know conditions or who are. obese for example or overweight so one. of the things I've been doing with. vaccine injuries patients myself is. actually implementing these Lifestyle. Changes like eat real food you know do. 30 minutes of moderate activity a day. let's really focus on your stress levels. and a lot of these people are getting. better because of that but there's a lot. of uncertainties what are there are. there any other drugs you know I know. that you know at the flcc conference. which I'm attending in Dallas and. speaking at uh you know at the moment um. there are doctors there that are.

producing protocols that seem to be. working observationally whether it's. vitamin infusions the lifestyle even the. use of ican apparently seems to be. helping some patients as well which is. really interesting what does it help. well it's it has some mechanism. apparently which seems to um alleviate. the damage from the spike protein I mean. that's the theoretical benefit of icin. theoretical theoretical but it's being. used and because it's extremely safe. it's one of the safest drugs we we have. I think there's you know it's not.

unreasonable in those people who are. resistant you know so I think we need to. think about that but the problem Joe as. well is that because the establishment. is ignoring what is now a pandemic of. vaccine ined people we can't devote as. much resources as we'd like into. research and into managing these people. because a lot of these people poor you. know these patients are being being. gaslighted still by their doctors yeah. and that's a big issue I mean even uh. last week there was um an interesting. case that was reported in the BBC where.

a young 32-year-old fit and healthy. psychologist in the NHS took the. astroica vaccine we use that initially. in the UK as well and within 10 days he. died of a of a severe. stroke and the death certificate the. wife fought for I mean kudos to her she. fought for him and for justice for him. and the death certificate said he died. of natural causes So It ultimately it. went to court and the coroner confirmed. that this was absolutely likely caused.

by the astrogenic vaccine you know I um. so this these sorts of discussions need. to keep you know we need to keep having. them uh why do you think at this point. there's still such an incredible. reluctance to blame anything on the. vaccine because people will with any. other medication people are any other. medication it seems like it wouldn't be. so easy to dismiss like when people got. Strokes with Vio people weren't saying.

oh come on you just had a regular stroke. the Vio didn't have anything to do with. it but with this you do see that. narrative like you know hey he had a. heart attack 7 days after he was. vaccinated while people have heart. attacks there's no consideration for a. novel treatment that has been. administered to hundreds of millions of. people in this country no consideration. to maybe that had a factor in fact they. actively try to ignore that as a.

possible factor and I have talked to so. many people that have had either similar. situations to yours or Worse where they. had an adverse effect from the vaccine. and these anecdotal stories of people. and their doctor's reluctance to admit. or to even consider that it had anything. to do with that is quite. shocking the indoctrination on vaccine. safety Joe is so so deep historically.

and with this that even educated people. think they're being. objective I think what's made this worse. is that many of these doctors and many. people themselves one they've had it. they bought into the. narrative and we have to also have we. have to think pathetically and. compassionately with them in the sense. that I think we have to have that. conversation and that understanding that.

changing one's mind in general is. actually for many people quite an. emotionally traumatic. experience but really if you think about. it and then you know we are strong. enough and mature enough to be able. to you know understand what's happened. here and to try and move forward. constructively but for most people. Paul the kind of discussion we're having. now about all of these system failures. and the corruption and people being. harmed and you know this this vaccine.

that almost certainly I think quite. likely these drug companies knew already. about the harms before they were rolled. out that's why they got immunity from. getting sued if people got vaccine. injured because they knew it's a lot to. take in Joe it's much easier to bury. your head in the sand and to ignore it. this willful blindness it's an easier. route to take than to confront these. truths. but we have to confront the facts. because if we don't it's only going to. keep happening but there's also other. people who are doing the work for the.

man and that's where it gets weird to me. when it comes to this and this is. something that I've never seen before. but I I I have seen with with the. vaccine is that there are people that. because of their own personal choices or. because of whatever positions they. initially. asserted initially Pro vaccine or you. know tried to tell people to get it or. tried to be. influential these people are so. reluctant to change course I'm not.

talking about medical health. professionals I'm talking about. journalists I'm talking about people in. the public eye I'm talking about. influencers and celebrities that have. initially stated that you should go do. this I'm doing this you should do this. those people are still carrying water. for the pharmaceutical Industries to. cover up their own either in correct. assumptions and assertions or what. whatever reason they want to do it. they're doing the work for them like. when you see if someone talks about.

having some sort of a vaccine adverse. side effect they're attacked I've seen. people get attacked I've seen people. talk about someone they know that got. sick or even died and they'll get. attacked it's very strange because it's. become much more of a medical issue. and it turned into a tribal issue and in. this country is a very separated in in. terms of ideological uh inclinations you.

have your Republicans and you have your. Democrats your right-wing people and. your leftwing people the right-wing. people are more reluctant to take it. they're more reluctant to believe they. were you know they were seeking. alternative treatment some of them were. ineffective and then you had and. unfortunately a lot of those people were. unhealthy to begin with and then you had. the leftwing people who were all in they. were getting fiser tattoos they were. showing photos of them getting. vaccinated they were posting their. little stickers got vaccinated they you. know they had their little uh hypodermic.

needle emoji and their their little bio. it's wild [ __ ] because it became a. tribal identity signifier it it was a. signal that you were sending out to. other people that you were on the right. side you've done the right thing yes I. think you're um there's an element for. sure for in this that those people who. are indoctrinated believe that they have. done a good thing for society they.

believe they have done the right thing. and I think they thought that when they. did it initially so that's why they're. reluctant to relinquish that and to say. they got duped yeah but you know it. takes there's a the school I went to. Manchester grammar school where uh you. know I think it shaped me I'm very proud. of the school I went to our motto it was. in Latin. sa dare to be wise it takes courage. to change one's mind and to admit that. you may have been wrong so it's not an. easy thing for people to do it's the. right thing to do it's about living.

virtuously as doctors we're also taught. if evidence changes we we need to change. with the evidence but not everybody. feels comfortable doing that Joe and I. think that there some of it is probably. fear of getting attacked I mean I I know. some celebrity figures that privately. you know I won't name them who are. completely you know I agree with you see. keep going we support you Etc thank you. and they send me all these but they. won't come out and speak out and I was. like you know if if you know even if. half a dozen well-known celebrity. figures Joe came out simultaneously and.

said we are very. concerned this vaccine is causing harm. please suspend it following an. investigation I think this issue would. probably end. overnight it it honestly doesn't take. that many people of prominence to really. speak out and um I don't know if you've. watched. um uh the movie she said which is around. what happened with Harvey Weinstein no. so and this is corroborated you know. obviously movies can sometimes be. fictional but this is this is very.

accurate and one of the things that. comes out in that film is that all these. women who had suffered um of the hands. of Harvey. Weinstein um when the journalists went. to them I think it was New York Times. originally that broke the story um they. were all very very scared of speaking. out on their own like they would get. attacked and you know he was so powerful. and all of that influence but what the. journalists did is that they got several. of these women and they basically were. honest with them saying listen so and so. is going to say it as well it's not.

you're not just going to be alone and. the line was when they jump they all. jump. together right so we haven't got I think. we we're getting there um we have to. just keep speaking the truth and and. sort of letting go of the outcome. because it's the right thing to do but I. you know if there are people out there. who have a voice who have a platform and. I know some of them by the way I'm. talking about some really bigname. celebrities who message me like very. very famous people who say thank you.

keep going and I've said to them will. you speak out and they just they scared. to speak I've had the exact same. experience yeah I've had it privately. I've had it through messages I've had it. through emails and texts a lot of it. privately a lot of people don't even. want to write it down they just want to. tell you and a lot of them have stories. and the amount of people that I know. that have come up to me privately to. tell me about their own vaccine industry. injury rather and about how they've been. either ignored or dismissed by their. physician how they've sought other.

doctors out and the reluctance of. admitting that this was somehow or. another connected they they want to. think of the vaccine as being an overall. absolute positive a miracle of science. this is what got us through this sure. there is always going to be some side. effects because you're administering to. a massive amount of people that's the. they get from their doctor yeah yeah and. and we shouldn't underestimate the scale. of what we're dealing with I recently um. went to South Africa uh on a bit of a.

speaking tour trying to engage with. politicians and speak to the media and. give lectures to doctors and the person. that invited me there Joe is a chap. called Jay Naidu now Jay uh was a trade. Union Leader he was considered as the. chief orchestrator of the release of. Nelson m. from prison he served in his first. cabinet and he contacted me a few months. ago and I was a bit overwhelmed cuz I. was like he's a South African Elder he's.

one of the most powerful voices in. Africa and he said listen as I F what. you've been doing you know thank you and. I was like wow you know I support you. and what can I do to help etc etc and. what he said to me and he also said this. recently uh on GB news he said aim what. we are dealing with here the scale of. the problem the battle we have is far. bigger than what we fought in uh in. terms of aparte and this is a guy at the. age of 36 who thought he was going to be. killed who had people with AK-47s.

looking for him because during that time. it was pretty horrific what happened to. you know U ethnic minority dissidents in. South Africa people were put in prison. and then they were murdered in prison I. mean that's what we're talking about. here that's how bad he said this is far. bigger wow well I mean just is by. numbers right cuz it's the world and. it's also this industry that is so. huge there's so much money involved in. this and there's so many people. particularly after it's already been. administered they don't want to harm the.

industry like this is already done the. last thing we want to do is decrease. profits even more yeah so let's figure. out a way to raise the profits up to a. similar level that they achieved over. the last few years and how do we do that. now and here's an interesting thing. that's com out recently in the United. States the original vaccine is now no. longer approved. right yes and why is that I don't know. it's a bit they've got this bent which. is a newer type it's the same thing. though Joe I think I don't know what.

what they're doing it's I don't fully. understand it to be perfectly honest. with you but I think what's going to. happen is they are still going to keep. using it in the winter like with the flu. vaccine they're just going to add it in. here's the covid vaccine for you which. is the same stuff so uh I don't think. it's an acceptance that you know we are. we've realized there's a problem we're. going to just slowly just introduce. something else I think it's the same. problem um I mean on that note though. Switzerland and even Germany now are. essentially stopping the the use of.

these vaccines um and uh I think what we. must be very aware of Joe is that we. shouldn't let them slowly phase out this. vaccine it may end up happening here as. well as if nothing ever happened and. they move on to the next thing um. because that's what they've done with. other drugs in the past you know I was. involved in a a case in the UK with a. drug that was used heavily here as well. it's called alterplay it's a clot. busting drug and it's used for strokes. Emer used for strokes and I got.

contacted by a whistleblower many years. ago who then published a letter in the. lanet who basically looked at the data. on which the drug was approved and said. it was flawed there was evidence of. potential fraud and eventually this went. up to the regulator it got publicized in. the laner I helped him get it on BBC. News and channel 4 news if it didn't get. there I don't think it would have got. the attention it needed and ultimately. the regulator got involved and I was. peripherally aware of the investigation. if you like into this drug and I was.

getting informed by people there that. they they didn't really know what to say. or what to do they couldn't really. answer the questions that the important. questions he asked them about the. regulatory approval and data which was. clearly obviously showing significant. harm and hardly any Ben benefits in. terms of causing brain bleeds and. probably several thousand people died. unnecessarily because of it and what. they did was it was one of the quality. markers in hospitals that the hospitals. would be re renumerated if they use this.

drug in a timely fashion they just. removed it one day from the website of. the you know of this being quality. marker of care it was removed and it. just stopped being used and then they. moved on to something else it never got. publicity that actually we likely. shouldn't have ever approved of this in. the first place and the information that. we used was potentially fraudulent or. flawed and therefore they just carry on. so I we we must be very careful we must.

be aware Joe that they potentially could. do this now it's already kind of. happened you didn't use this in the in. the US but in many European countries. one of the vaccines that was used at the. beginning for Co was. astroica by the summer of 2021 most. European countries had suspended the. astrogenic a vaccine they stopped using. it but no one really knew about it they. kind of heard there was a few cases. about rare blood clots or whatever right. reported in the news very very rare.

blood clots and then suddenly they. stopped using it wasn't well. publicized and then I found out only a. few months ago because I focused on the. MRNA fisa vaccine I didn't look at. astroica I got contacted by some people. in. India it was being used so it was. suspended in the European countries. because of these quite significant. common serious Adverse Events it was. used continued to be used even now in. India under a different name it's the. same vaccine it's called kovi. shield and when I saw that I was shocked.

so I went to India gave some lectures. over there engaged with mainstream. journalists over there who know me and. see me as a a credible voice in lots of. areas whether it's you know heart. disease or diet or heart stance or. whatever and uh I said I need to get. this into the mainstream media so I. basically gave a lecture and up until. the summer of 2020 there was a paper. published can't remember it was one of. the I think Immunology journals and it. basically said at that stage the. astrogenic vaccine was worse than fiser.

for cardiovascular effects worse than. fiser so I got this into the mainstream. into the times of India and what's. really interesting about this and it. links into something else in South. Africa I didn't know I went there just. because I wanted to help people I was. giving lectures but I had people coming. up to me after my lectures like widows. crying saying a n a nurse I remember. came he said my husband who was Fit and. Well had this and no one you know he he. basically dropped dead of a heart attack. two weeks later I know this is what it. was thank you for everything you're. doing I got it into the times of India.

and it got some publicity for the first. time in that country and I wasn't aware. when I didn't do it for this reason I. then met uh a very prominent lawyer in. in India who was involved in a case. where a young activist has accused um. one of the richest men in India who is. involved in the roll out of the covid. vaccine I wouldn't agree with what he. said I'm just going to tell you in a. second but he basically through social. media this young activist um said that.

this guy has committed mass murder so. this man is suing for like literally. millions of pounds this young guy who's. like a nutrition scientist who doesn't. have much money um this uh you know on. this saying that this is um you know. this is defamatory the vaccine is safe. and effective and you know the the. accusation from this young activist was. that this guy should have known or knew. and why did he support the use and made. a lot of money out of the astroica. vaccine so I meet this lawyer and the. case is ongoing and they weren't really.

getting. anywhere until he puts in front of the. judge an article in the times of India. where me the British cardiologist have. said this is a big problem and this was. suspended and he said it completely. turned the judge you could see that he. turned his eyes L up and he was. like the reason I'm saying this joke is. that even the Judiciary you know this is. the battle we face so many people have. been indoctrinated there are so many. biases here that one of the ways that we. combat this and I think your platform is.

is probably one of the most important. potentially in the world on this let's. not underestimate that is is. disseminating this truth traditionally. it's been through Legacy Media who are. failing the public at the moment right. they are acting in ways that. anti-democratic they're being economical. or the truth they are deliberately. suppressing information is you know what. we are trying to do here if we want to. revolutionize health care we want. patients and public to get a better deal. we want a better democracy is we make.

this Injustice visible that's what. Mahatma Gandhi said you know how did he. get the British colonialists out of. India you know how did he expose. everything they were doing was wrong. make the Injustice visible and the and. traditionally the most effective way to. do that is through the mainstream media. but the Legacy Media I think people are. losing trust. um even smears and attacks that have. happened to me after I went on the BBC. to talk about Statin and then you know. mentioned I don't know if you know about. this but it was a few months ago I.

mentioned the excess deaths could be. because of the vaccine got a lot of. views like 25 million views on on. Twitter um but there was a backlash. immediately where the Guardian newspaper. who I've written 19 opinion editorials. for over the years including three p. front page commentaries for the Observer. went for me and undermined my. credibility there was a quote from a. cardiologist saying he doesn't have a. Korean Cardiology it's just ridiculous. um the comment section in the guardian. initially and even the Times newspaper. that did something similar were largely. supportive of what I was doing so.

there's a disconnect here and I think. the Legacy Media are they're losing out. I think they're in big danger and I. think one of the things that you do Joe. is because you have these conversations. you're willing to hear different points. of view that's what people want Joe. that's what people really want and. people ultimately they want access to. the truth and they want to do the right. thing you know they hate to see. Injustice so we keep keep making the. Injustice visible and we will win this I. don't know if you're aware of this but. there was a uh a I believe it was a. Facebook post where I I don't remember.

what organiz organization put it up but. they it might have been a news. organization it was do you know anyone. that died from covid like what are your. stories people died from covid and then. underneath it people started posting all. their loved ones that died from the. vaccine and all their loved ones that. had debilitating debilitating injuries. from the vaccine and it was a massive. post it was thousands and thousands and. thousands of comments obviously.

unverified anecdotal you don't know what. I mean it could be all disinformation. who knows but the shock of seeing that. printed and this was early on this was. when people were still very much on the. narrative that the vaccine was getting. us out of this the vaccine was safe and. effective and Only Fools and conspiracy. theorists were willing to not to risk. their lives and not not participate and. it was it was pretty. stunning that feeling I get that that's.

the same I get from conversations with. people where they tell you about their. Uncle their friend their this their that. their brother their son they tell you. about these injuries and then they tell. you about the struggles of getting. people to connect them to the vaccine. they talk about how they've tried to get. it in the very V's report and the. unsuccessful attempts to do that even. though the vs report is quy pretty. extensive with vaccine injuries it's the.

whole thing seems like there's a lot of. people that don't want to talk about it. but have stories and feel very [ __ ]. over it's exactly the experience I've. been having you know uh wherever I go I. speak to I'm always curious about what. drives people and their health Etc and I. on this fact issue Joe whether it's a. cab driver or a shopkeeper when I was in. South Africa when I was in India over in. the states almost everybody has a story. Joe everybody has a story to tell that's.

important now you're right it we can't. always be definitive that it's you know. the vaccine but coming back to the. basics of what we learn in medicine 80%. of your diagnosis comes from the history. so listen to the patient and most of the. time they will give you the answer. something like this as you just. discussed was recently published in a. journal called BMC infectious diseases. high impact journal and it was a survey. conducted interesting analysis of. American people sample size wasn't. massive I think it was about 3,000 and. the calculations that were done.

suggested when they extrapolated up that. there may well be up to 1 million. serious Adverse Events uh effects from. the covid vaccines in the United States. in 2021 alone and. 278,000. fatalities right just from this survey. where people knew of somebody or that. had maybe had an injury who had died. it's still that's very telling it's. important information I think to to have. a discussion about now this paper only a. couple of weeks ago April the 11th was.

retracted because of they were you know. the the journal was put under pressure. not because they committed some fraud or. whatever else it the the there was no. real good reason given you know we are. not something around you can't draw. causal inference from this paper which. was in the paper anyway I mean the. people who wrote this saying of course. you can't say it's causal but it's still. important that this is the level there. could be they didn't say there was it. could be that high we need to have these.

discussions if and also if there's such. a disconnect Joe between how patients. and the public feel and they are now not. trusting or believing the medical. establishment that's not good for. medicine it's not good for democracy. it's not good for government um for. societies to. flourish constructively and. progressively. people need need to be able to trust. each other and you can only trust each. other if you believe people are telling. the truth so we are heading down a very.

dangerous path uh you know until we can. release the world from this corporate. tyranny this is the battle we face you. know the one of Truth Versus money. materialism and dare I say it in some. ways psychopathy and spiritualism right. and we need to go back to understanding. what does it actually mean to be human. what does it mean to be a good human. what does it mean to um what does it. mean to lead the good life and that is. underpinned by also basic values of. honesty Integrity you know empathy.

compassion courage this is what we need. to be teaching there's a cultural issue. here I think there's also that's what's. led us a little bit and is hindering us. to making progress because these people. as you know even your friends and. celebrities why don't they just be brave. enough to just come out and speak the. truth and speak because there's real. consequence and they could avoid those. consequences by just not talking and. they don't feel like they have that much. of a ability to change things they feel. like this machine is massive and.

dangerous and. scary I think we shouldn't underestimate. the power of speaking the truth I'm. somebody that has you know in the recent. in recent months I know you've had him. on your show a few times and it makes. sense to me why he says Jordan Peterson. right so you know we have to accept it's. not safe to speak the truth but it's. even less safe to not speak the truth. because problem isn't going to go away. it's only going to get worse it's it. isn't even about being virtuous or. courageous for me it's about being. rational it's about being rational so we. need to keep having these conversations.

and hopefully with time situation people. will you know I think more and more. people are speaking out more doctors are. speaking out certainly when I started. you know I was I was one of the lone. voices there are people like Peter. McCulla who's been brilliant on top of. this for a long time but more and more. doctors now more and more people. speaking out I I feel most for my my. profession I'm more worried about them. than anyone I mean of course I my. patients are being harmed but in terms. of the trust that has been. eroded you know it's going to take we. have to accept it the trust has been. eroded it's going to take time to regain.

that trust but the longer the medical. establishment ignore the fact that you. know they are. essentially. slaves to corporate tyranical and often. Psychopathic entities until that as long. as they continue to ignore that um. our patients are going to suffer more. and more you touched briefly on one. thing that's very disturbing that I. think we should probably talk some more.

about and it's an increase in overall. mortality the increase in overall. mortality is pretty unprecedented. correct yes so this has been going on uh. has been in the news or got getting some. attention certainly for the last several. months and um when you look at excess. deaths a significant proportion of those. if not most of them are usually. cardiovascular hard attack and strokes. obviously my area of.

Interest the question is what's causing. it and with heart disease of course and. cardiovasc it's a. multifactorial you know um. condition some of it for sure and I. actually predicted this interestingly. before the vaccine came onto the scene. in my mind I knew that because of. lockdowns and the psychological stress. associated with it and people's diets. getting worse and being sedent and stuff. I predicted that there probably would be. overtime in increas in heart attacks.

certainly more vulnerable people and I. think there is definitely a role to be. played there Joe in this also drinking. much more people drank during the. pandemic alcoholism increased y these. things will absolutely you know and. mental health obviously got worse so you. know there's going to be people I. haven't looked at this you know but I. suspect some of these are going to be. people with Ides have gone up that that. kind of thing I'm sure that's going to. probably be contributing factor lack of. screening and medical attention during. that time yeah a little bit of that not. so much because remember I said that you.

know modern medicine itself you know. only gives marginal benefits actually to. most people I think the Emergency Care. stuff for example people not getting you. know timely treatment in emergencies for. sure like people having Cardiac Arrest. Etc but then what's driving the increase. in cardiac arest which we've seen right. so that's the question. so what proportion of those excess. deaths are because of the. vaccine and there isn't much data out. there that's that's. reliable but Norman Professor Norman.

Fenton who's a professor of risk at. Queen Mary University ameritus professor. of risk very well published very um. respected mathematician you know. statistician professor of risk he did a. recent article online and his estimates. in the UK and you can extrapolate this. around the world if you like um in terms. of the you know excess deaths that have. occurred since say. 2021 He suggests that maybe half of.

those are because of the covid vaccines. now when we're talking about excess. deaths what are the numbers well in the. UK absolute numbers are about 120,000. excess deaths since. 2021 and he's was the percentage over a. normal year I can't tell you off the top. of my head Joe I can't uh I I can't. break down the percentage specifically. for you um I mean separately in my paper. one thing I looked at was the increase.

in outof hospital Cardiac Arrest that. happened in uh 2021 after the vaccine. rollout versus 2020 and that was in the. region of something like 14 to 20%. increase which was you know quite. significant and is it Universal or is it. uniform in all the states that rolled. out these vaccines this increase. in excess deaths yeah the the problem is. the data has not collated that you know. we we have to rely on what government.

government figures so certainly in the. UK it does seem to be pretty consistent. in most placate to places where there. was a very low number of vaccinated. people yeah so if you look at across. countries across the world the there is. definitely a. correlation with v you know highly. vaccinated ated countries and excess. deaths the one caveat though which is. interesting and I can explain that is. there hasn't been any significant. increase in excess deaths in Sweden and.

they're very highly vaccinated. now although the excess deaths are maybe. one of the lowest in the world they're. still probably higher than you would. expect after a pandemic when a lot of. vulnerable people would have died and. therefore your excess death rate should. be in the negative and they're not in. the negative so that means they are. still higher than you would expect and. I've been to Sweden a given lectures and. spoken to cardiologists and they are. seeing these vaccine injuries so why is. Sweden doing better as I said earlier a. lot of the vulnerabilities to vaccine.

injuries are people who had poorer. Baseline Health the same people were. vulnerable to covid um a lot of the. excess deaths are still also in the p in. the in the countries which had high. obesity rates so looking at covid uh and. let's not underestimate or forget about. this 90% of the deaths globally from. covid happened in countries where more. than half the population were overweight. abuse and when you understand the. mechanism of harm of the vaccine which. is basically increasing inflammation in. the body systemically for a number of.

months if you've already got a baseline. problem of a little bit of chronic. inflammation it's just going to make it. worse so it makes sense from a. biological perspective why people who. were also vulnerable to covid are also. more vulnerable to vaccine injuries and. Sweden's Baseline health is a lot. healthier you know they are a lot of. Scandinavian countries they are. generally healthier they have lower soci. uh social inequalities so something very. interesting is that the bigger the gap. between the rich and the poor in. countries that's a big risk factor for.

ill health as well as well because. there's something called status anxiety. Joe when you have a big gap between rich. and poor everybody is more is comparing. themselves to each other and uh in these. more eal and that causes stress chronic. stress it's an element it's a lot of dat. interesting research on this whereas in. the Scandinavian countries they're much. more equal societies socioeconomically. and that probably also makes them less. stressed and. healthier that makes sense clearly and.

also dietary choices Health choices the. stress drug abuse that often times comes. with impoverished people yes yeah. absolutely the whole thing is just so. extraordinary and it's so hard to gather. up the information and it really takes. having a conversation with someone like. yourself over hours to really just lay. out the landscape so that people can. understand that yeah I think that's also.

part of the problem with getting this. narrative out there that it requires. someone to commit to listening to. someone like yourself talk for a long. time to get a real understanding of what. are the mechanisms that could be causing. these problems what are what what are. the what are the vulnerabilities that. the system has that they would allow. this to take place in the first place. it's all very complex yeah um I mean so. again that goes to like what are some of. the solutions here so there's a very.

interesting um approach structure used. in Thailand called the triangle that. moves the mountain and the mountain is. considered like a social problem that is. thought to be very difficult to to move. or change so how can we simplify this. complex problem so we focus on the right. things to move forward rather than think. become apathetic or think oh my God this. is too big what you know where do we. focus our attention so the triangle that. moves a mountain has three components. one is the information clean clear.

evidence disseminating that information. the truthful information right then it's. the social movement empowering people. who are educated to to make noise and. and to educate each other about what's. what's going on and then the third one. maybe more challenging is political. involvement because ultimately the. politicians they have the power to over. laws over protecting the public in this. instance from the excesses and. manipulations of farmer right so that's.

how that mountain can be moved um and. that's something I have um almost done. intuitively over the years learning from. other activists but you know I if you. take the issue of sugar for example Joe. you know I was very prominent in in. highlighting the harms of excess sugar. suar doing my own investigation getting. it out through the mainstream media um. but also having that conversation. getting into you know politicians and. and getting into Parliament ultimately. you know the I was the first science.

director of this organization called. action on sugar got lots of scientists. together broke the mainstream news got. lots of media involved it became an ed. you know campaign we we basically the. front page of the Daily Mail when we. first launched our Campaign which for me. was a big win was sugar is a new tobacco. that was it that's all people need to. know front page Daily Mail 2014. boom right and then everything took off. from there where you know um the. secretary for health at the time Jeremy. Hunt I met him and what happened even. though that was a relatively right-wing.

government you wouldn't think this would. happen it resulted because of that media. tension and the dissemination of that. information that sugar was harmful and. we've been manipulated by the food. industry it resulted in us introducing. uh tax on sugary drinks in the UK which. was a big win and again why that's. important is we talked about big tobacco. earlier do you know what the. biggest Health Care breakthrough has. happened in the last 40 or 50. years in the Western World taxation of.

cigarettes really 50% of the decline in. smoking uh sorry in heart disease deaths. has happened because of smoking but it. only happened when there were. regulations imposed so um in public. health we call about addressing the um. affordability the. availability and the um um acceptability. of cigarettes so public health education. campaign affordability taxation of. cigarettes and availability of public. smoking banss but the impact of these. Public Health interventions uh Joe are.

huge so Helena Montana 2002 they. introduced a public smoking ban you. couldn't smoke in public places within 6. months 40% decline in admissions with. heart. attacks because passive smoking. increases pla activity and cloudability. of the blood so suddenly you remove that. from the environment passive smoking yes. what do you mean by passive SM as in. you're a non say you're smoking now and. I'm inhaling your fumes oh secondhand. smoking secondhand smoking you call it.

here we call it passive in the UK and. then increases within 30 minutes of that. the studies were done to show that it. increases platelet activity in terms of. your your blood becomes more cutable. just within 30 minutes of passive. smoking you yes you move out from the. environment and suddenly massive. reduction when the law was rescinded. because of the tobacco Lobby within a. few months the heart attack levels went. back to what they were um you know. beforehand so that shows you the impact. of it and eventually obviously we won. that battle same thing happened in. Scotland 177% decrease within one year. of out Hospital cardiac arrests after.

the smoking ban so these are the. important interventions like public. health now if we apply the same thing to. food you know we tax Ultra processed. food we make healthy food real food more. affordable knowing the science of. dietary changes on health you could. probably within the space of a few years. probably in the the right way. theoretically half the death rates from. heart disease so you know we need to. think in these terms and coming back to. what we said earlier about this. sociocultural phenomenon of the.

perception amongst people about modern. medicine being the. Savior from. 1850 to now to 2014 right in America. there's been an average increase in life. expectancy of 40. years when they did surveys of Public. Health students and asked them how much. of those 40 years was because of modern. medicine the response was they thought. 80% of those 40 years was because of. modern medicine and Healthcare so 32 of. those 40y year increase in life.

expectancy so average age was 40 of. death or whatever 18 50 and now it's. what. 79 do you know what the real figure was. for modern medicine about three and a. half to 5 years most of what increased. life expectancy in the last 150 years. whatever has been through Public Health. interventions Safe Drinking Water seat. belt in cars safer working environments. better sanitation smokefree buildings in. some ways better nutrition in some. senses because of all these nutritional.

deficiencies that kills people through. defective immune systems and that's a. conversation we need to start having. again you know most of what determines. your health happens outside the you know. the doctor's consultation room and uh. and that is a a sociocultural phenomenon. we have to also address because that. also would help policy makers know where. they should be devoting their resources. if they want to be improving Health but. a lot of them are bought into even Bill. Gates I suspect Bill Gates I know you. may have your own opinions on him I. think a lot of his issues is is one of.

ignorance and even the illusion of. knowledge he's equated advances in. technology through engineering or Tech. with medicine as well and what I tell. patients and what I tell doctors usually. if something's more expensive as a new. drug it's probably least likely to be. effective for you so we have to you know. we have to have those conversations with. with doctors and with the public that. there are big modern medicine has a role. but there are massive limitations and.

the way we are managing chronic disease. which is the big problem in American. Healthcare your diabetes your high blood. pressure heart disease all that kind of. stuff cancers is with pills that have. very marginal effects of benefit come. with side effects don't improve the. quality of your life and simultaneously. because of the illusion of benefit d. ract policy makers and individuals from. focusing on these more effective simple. lifestyle. changes and that's where we should be. focusing our.

attention so what do we do well we have. that conversation we disseminate the. information one of the things I again I. try through multiple media mechanisms. through lectures through you know. podcasts through mainstream Medias to. get that information out there and a few. years ago um I was lucky enough to. co-produce a documentary film call the. big fat fix and it covers a lot of stuff. we discussed about how we got it wrong. about saturated fat and uh how you know. and and and part of that story Joe I.

co-produced it with a a chap called. Donal O'Neal Who Um was a former. International athlete who got very. interested in the lifestyle stuff. because his dad suffered a heart attack. who was a soccer player and he's like. why did he have a heart attack and he. realized it was you know lowfat diet. high carbohydrate all that kind of stuff. and he made the movie called ccos so we. made this movie and what we did was we. went back to the um origins of where the. Mediterranean diet came from because a. lot of the problems with obesity now and. I know I know you've discussed this with. other people is because of floor dietry. guidelines low fat high carb ultrapress. food Etc lower cholesterol that's what.

we should be focusing on and it's driven. this obesity epidemic so we went back to. the original village where the. Mediterranean diet originally you know. came from it's called piopi not many. people know Southern Italian Village and. we went there to meet those people look. at how they live because they're average. and they're not a wealthy community. they're quite poor actually seaside. village. average life expectancy over 90 they're. not taking lots of pills like what. what's going on here and their diet was. devoid of tradition of ultr processed. food um very strong sense of community.

if you look at these blue zones around. the world where people live you know. have have healthy life expectancy not. just living with chronic a healthy life. long life and a healthy life you know. the common denominator Joe other than. the fact they didn't have alter. processed food and all that kind of. stuff they were active they were. Outdoors Etc they weren't pounding in. the gym they were just out walking in. the Hills right right was they had a. very strong sense of community they. looked after each other and that plays. into our greater understanding of the. impact of stress on health and that's.

something again which isn't being. addressed properly because uh it's now. well established that if you have. chronic stress it's equivalent as a risk. factor for heart disease as being a type. two diabetic or being a smoker or having. high blood pressure but it's not being. addressed and I manage a lot of patients. by addressing their stress and going to. the route most of them have severe. stress who've come with heart attacks. hasn't been dealt with and I don't want. to digress too much um so we made this.

documentary film just to get people to. understand that most of what you know. the lifestyle factors is what you know. what you need to do moving forward and. we crowdfunded it because initially we. went to the BBC they wanted editorial. control and started suggesting new. things and we said you know what we. don't want this to be influenced by any. entity that isn't going to be open to. telling the full truth about lifestyle. even if it means taking on and exposing. all of the sugar industry. manipulations um and uh you know we used. it to um it luckily for us New York.

Times covered it Men's Health gave it a. really positive review and we premiered. in the British Parliament and that had a. really powerful impact I had members of. parliament coming to me after it. congratulating me on it and one of them. we wrote a book as well called Tom. Watson former deputy leader of the labor. party at the time he was the opposition. it's like Democrat Party he was like the. deputy leader this guy he'll admit this. for most of his life when you see him is. massively obese like he was known as. like probably looked as one most obese. politicians you will see and about a.

year after he'd read the book and seen. this documentary film because it. premiered in Parliament and there were. MPS talking about it. Etc he calls me up I never I didn't know. him he messaged me in fact on Twitter. and he said listen I want to tell you. something he said I read your book and. I've actually I've struggled with. obesity all my life and I followed your. low carb Mediterranean diet right he. said I lost £100 in a year and I've. sustained it and I want to talk about. it and he then has been a poster boy and. he influenced other politicians and what. happened as a result of that Joe is that.

we then got the sugary drinks tax as. well so I think all these things you. know um don't underestimate the power of. your speech who you're speaking to and. the power of the truth and uh and now. we've now decided because of all of this. mess we're in this bubble needs to burst. of corporate tyranny movies and. documentaries can be very power ful to. you know in 60 minutes to really change. the way people think if you convey. information in the right way so we're. now about to um I'm announcing it here.

obviously with you the first time. because we've been discussions we're. doing a new documentary which we're. going to get crowdfunded because we want. to be free of commercial influence um. which really helps expose all of these. system failures of farmer regulatory. capture but also give people tools as. individuals about how they can improve. their health the questions they should. as said Doctor you know do I really need. this test or procedure what happens if I. do nothing are there any alternatives. anything simpler or safer options um and. it will educate doctors and hopefully.

within that 60 minutes we can have a. massive massive impact and I'm going to. you know we need obviously we're going. to get it crowdfunded to make it high. quality Etc we probably need about half. a million dollars um and I shared with. Jamie actually that we've done a little. 0. 90c uh promo kind of trailer video just. to get people uh understanding what. we're about to do uh and it and the. title is you ready for it first duno. Farm as a p h.

RM that's very catchy um I don't know if. uh we're able to just from the creators. of serial. killers in 1986 Ronald Reagan made it. easier for American Pharma companies to. make more money and in 1992. George Bush allowed them to spend some. of that to directly Finance the. FDA by 1999 drug giant Merc had. falsified their own research to Usher a.

new arthritis drug onto the. market Vio would kill an estimated. 55,000. Americans but that was just for. starters in the last two decades big. Pharma has been f tens of billions of. dollars but the deception. continues when they are free to deceive. who can you believe please give a very.

warm welcome to Dr Asim. mahra they paid fines that were. minuscule in comparison to the profit. that they made and nobody got fired and. the system just continues to do the same. thing nothing has changed to stop them. committing these crimes again top. Executives should be held personally. accountable so that they would need to. think of the risk of imprisonment when. they consider performing or acing in.

[Music]. crime that looks great um one of the. things that happened when vaccine. injuries first started being discussed. particularly. myocarditis um there was a lot of. confusion because particularly I was. confused because I was told by multiple.

sources including very credible people. that there was a high risk particularly. with young men of myocarditis because of. the vaccine then all this data came out. that said there's actually more. myocarditis from covid than there is of. the. vaccine what is what's the real story. there the real story is that during the. first year of the pandemic Joe and in. fact Israel looked at this a few million. people uh they published a paper which.

again I referenced as well which is the. best available evidence is there was no. significant increase in myocarditis from. the virus compared to other viruses so. why did they say there was and what was. the data that they used yeah I I think I. think what well there was an. overdiagnosis from my carditis so one of. the papers that was published in nature. and I know this because I know some of. the authors and I know somebody close to. one of the authors and I think I don't. think they did this deliberately I think. they were fed into this perception that.

they needed to highlight the harms of. covid and it was affecting the heart is. that they didn't they weren't strict. with their criteria of what myocarditis. is so for. example one of the thing one of the. markers of inflammation of the heart. muscle is something called troponin. troponin also goes up when you have a. heart attack it's used to diagnose heart. attack but you don't use a single marker. on its own to make a diagnosis it's. what's a history what are other tests. showing what is a likely. diagnosis if you are and this is.

something I've come across throughout my. whole career if you have any infection. in the body or you're under stress you. have pneumonia it's quite common that. your troponin which is a marker of. inflammation of the heart which doesn't. necessarily mean myocarditis by the way. will go. up what they did was if you in intensive. care in this study the way that they. they overdiagnose they basically just. use people's troponin to make a. diagnosis of myocarditis rather than. actually is this truly myocarditis so.

there was a massive. overdiagnosis of myocarditis that wasn't. myocarditis and that inflated the. numbers when people have looked. clinically at the criteria of what. myocarditis is with use of MRI scans and. Echoes and all that kind of stuff and. the history um it doesn't show any. significant increase compared to other. viruses and by the way there's I have a. personal story here my brother when I. was 11 years old I lost my older brother. he was 13 and he died because of varia. carditis so I know how devastating this. can be I'm not undermining the fact that.

this can be really devastating within a. week of having a a basically a stomach. infection he went into crashing heart. failure and died under cardiac arrest so. so it's something I have an interest in. and I know about and I've managed many. people with myocarditis so there isn't. any significant increase or if there is. it's minor when you you look at the data. on myocarditis after the vaccine. certainly in younger people under 40 one. of the recent Publications suggested it. probably is even maybe 28 times more.

frequent but let's give a caveat here. Joe I don't want to it can be in a way. comparing apples and oranges so the. vaccine myocarditis in general the. what's diagnosed when people are. admitted to hospital doesn't isn't the. same as viral myocarditis which. traditionally can about a third of those. people who get it will die when they get. viral myocarditis a third will have some. impairment of heart muscle pump function.

and a third will have you know some kind. of breathlessness not feel well go to. hospital and everything will normalize. within a space of a few weeks and. they'll live a normal long happy life. with the viral with the vaccine. myocarditis stuff it's a little bit more. um what concerns me more is that a lot. of people will get some mild initial. issue with the vaccine inflammation of. the heart muscle but probably through. other mechanisms of the vaccine later on. can suddenly have arhythmia and suddenly. drop dead and I suspect many of these.

athletes that unexpectedly dropping dead. have got some subclinical. myocarditis even if let's just say for. argument sake Joe even if viral Mark um. covid myocarditis is more common than. other viral myocarditis right May well. be true let's just say it's true for. argument sake. that doesn't mean that taking the. vaccine is going to protect you there's. no data saying it's going to protect you. from um covid myocarditis and actually. may be additive it may make things worse.

so if you've had covid and you have. natural. immunity one bit of research. revealed if you have the vaccine after. having natural immunity certainly within. the first three months you are almost. three times more likely to get side. effects. so there are two different discussions. going on here one is how common is covid. myocarditis fine let's establish that. the question is does the vaccine protect. you from it or make things worse and.

almost certainly with all we know now. when it comes to heart disease or the. issue about myocarditis or heart attacks. the vaccine is you know the Cure is. worse than the. disease you know how many people try to. get to get vaccinated after I got sick. it was stunning smart people people that. I knew very well including doctors. including sanj Gupta they were telling. me that it would give me initial.

protection and I remember. being so confused because I had known at. that point there was already studies. showing that natural immunity was very. disputed because it wasn't it was. against the narrative but that natural. immunity was several times better at. protecting you from additional. infection and my friend who's a. brilliant man who is very much a vaccine. proponent said yeah but you'll get more. protection and I said to him hey man I.

got over this in 3. days like what what are you what are you. saying I've been sick from the flu for. longer than that like I'm very fortunate. in that I have access to Good Health. Care and medicine and I'm very healthy. and I work out every day and I take a. lot of vitamins and I do a lot of other. things for my health sauna and cold. plunge all these different things I'm. very healthy I work at it all the. time so this thought that I'm going to.

take a chance on something that I didn't. take in the first place because the. vaccine that I was supposed to let me. tell you my story um the UFC had. allocated a uh certain number of doses. of the Johnson and Johnson vaccine for. all of their. employees um they had we were operating. during the pandemic In the Heat of the. pandemic and we would do these uh. audience less events so there would be. no audience it would just be the staff. everybody would be tested you would be.

tested before you got on your flight. you'd be tested again when you got there. they had an amazing bubble amazing covid. bubble and occasionally a crew member. would test positive they' shut. everything down or a a not a crew member. rather but um a corner member of like. one of the fighters groups that fighter. would no longer be able to compete even. if they tested negative so they were. really rigorous about this so they said. hey you know uh the vaccine's out and we. have a bunch of it uh do you want to.

take it they didn't mandate it they just. asked me I said sure I said I'm coming. in for the fights and we would do these. at the Apex Center which is a very small. Arena the UFC has constructed that they. do some of their smaller events at so I. go there I uh I call um this guy who's. the head of the thing and I said hey. uh uh I'm here can I get the vaccine. before the show and uh he said yeah let. me get right back to you we we'll set. that up so he calls me back says okay. there's an issue we have to do it at the.

clinic uh can you come back on Monday. and I said I can't I'm busy I have to go. back I go I got to go back to Texas but. there uh there's another event coming up. in the future I'll be back here again. I'll this time I'll come a day early and. I'll just get the vaccine during that. time period of me returning. two people I knew got strokes and they. pulled the vaccine so they pulled the. Johnson and Johnson vaccine and then I. went whoa so from all that I knew about.

Vio because I had a friend who had taken. Vio and gotten a stroke and I knew about. the Core case I hadn't had the. conversation with John Abramson yet but. I I was very aware of the deception and. very aware of how they hid the data and. that they knew about it in advance they. knew it was going to cause these. problems so I started getting nervous I. started get and then I started talking. to different Physicians and doctors who. would devise these immunity boosting. protocols and this is how you prevent.

viral infections and ionophores and zinc. and IV vitamins and this and that and I. was. like I don't know man I don't now I want. to ride this out so now now I'm now I'm. really concerned and confused and then I. had a few friends that had gotten it and. some friends that got it real bad and. then some friends that just had nothing. I mean nothing like one of my friends. she got she got tested because she had. to go somewhere for a wedding uh in I.

believe it was the Virgin Islands and so. she had to get tested to fly and oh my. God you're positive she's like what I'm. positive like yeah you your your your. PCR has tested you positive for and this. is the early days of the BCR where they. did multiple Cycles I think they were. doing what were they doing 40. originally um and then uh she got tested. again she was positive she never had a. single symptom and then I started. looking at how many asymptomatic people. there were and they were saying.

something in the neighborhood like 60%. of the people were asymptomatic I'm like. what is this is this going to kill. everybody or is this nothing like what. is this and then someone else would get. it and they'd get really sick and they'd. be [ __ ] up for a couple weeks so it. was very it was I was not committed one. way or the other I was still on the. fence about this But as time went on I. just sensed the [ __ ] I sensed the. propaganda it was just there were so. many people that were trying to coer you. celebrities like Arnold Schwarzenegger.

saying [ __ ] your freedom take it [ __ ]. your freedom everybody was telling you. to take it and I was like man this seems. like a cult this this seems like. something's going but I didn't want to. dismiss medicine I didn't want to. dismiss the whole thing what disturbs. the [ __ ] out of me is that after I got. better. CNN MSNBC all these mainstream news. things are mocking me for taking horse. medication they're say he took horse. medication he took horse dewormer like.

literally taking a drug that's on the. World Health organization's list of. essential medicines literally taking a. drug that's been prescribed billions of. times taking a drug from that was. invented by the guy who won the Nobel. Prize for inventing that. drug what has one of. best safety profiles of any known drug. but it's generic and it's cheap it was. real cheap and I didn't just take that I. listed a bunch of other things I took.

zpac uh monoclonal antibodies uh I had. IV vitamin infusions multiple days in a. row I got better quick nobody cared that. I get better quick all they cared was I. didn't get vaccinated what's the best. way to shame him let's point to this one. thing that he took and mock this person. for taking this foolish medication they. even changed the color of my face on CNN. they put my I put a video up of me. saying that I had to cancel shows Dave. Chappelle and I had a big concert coming. up that weekend and I said we have to.

postpone it because I have covid but I. in the video I was like I feel fine I. had Co three days ago I had one bad day. the second day I felt pretty good today. I feel great and all they wanted to talk. about like constantly every hour was me. taking horsey wormer it was in Rolling. Stone it was in all these things horsee. rolling stone had an article gunshot. victims are waiting in line to get to. the hospital because so many people are. overdosing from horse Dormer 100% hor.

[ __ ] printed in the Rolling Stone not. only that but they used an image this is. Oklahoma they used an image this is. supposedly in the summer that this was. happening they used an image of a bunch. of people waiting in line wearing winter. coats because that wasn't from them. that was from the I believe they were. waiting in line to get vaccinated for. the flu it was another stock photograph. that they used of people waiting in line. at the hospital it had nothing to do. with horse D wormer this was tweeted by.

Rachel mattow this was tweeted by many. online prominent influencers and. journalists like look at these fools. taking this horse. Dormer and it wasn't until I read uh. Robert Kennedy's Book the real Anthony. fouchy that I got a sense that this is a. Playbook. that they have used forever they offer. one solution this one solution is. patented this one solution is controlled. by these pharmaceutical companies and. it's very expensive and they make a.

fuckload of money from it whereas. anything that's off label anything. that's generic is dismissed they rig the. test to make it look like it like. they'll give you far more and like what. they did with hydroxy chloroquin me I. don't even want to go into this you. could read it in the book but my whole. journey on this is like first of all how. did I find myself in this right I'm a. comedian and a cage fighting commentator. how am I having these disc how how am I. on CNN all the time and all they're.

doing is mocking a medication that I. took very deceptively no out and out. lying not just deceptively just out and. out lying saying that I took veterinary. medicine it was so strange it was so. strange to be in the center of that and. also to be someone who got over it very. quickly where there was no discussion. there was no like Hey Joe Rogan got over. this really quickly what is he doing. differently than most people that that. had Co and had terrible outcomes there.

was none of that there was no real. concern like hey is he doing something. that we could all do maybe some people. like Aaron roders who is allergic to one. of the key uh components of the MRNA. vaccine he literally is allergic to it. if he takes it it could be bad for him. so isn't there something those people. can do there wasn't even that it was. just mockery and shame and it was also. uh a very distorted understanding of the.

actual landscape they thought they were. CNN and CNN was huge CNN is the news CNN. is a gigantic corporations they have big. building the whole deal giant sign they. didn't understand that this podcast is. 10 times larger than them and it was. exposed during that whole thing where. they just made this terrible chess move. they just ran out in the Middle with. their. King and that that's how I found myself. in the middle of all this that's how I. find myself having conversations with. Peter McCulla and Robert Malone and now.

you and and a lot of other people John. Abramson a lot of other very Brett. Weinstein a lot of very intelligent. people that weren't crazy they weren't. tinf foil hat conspiracy theorists or. qinon believers they were just. intelligent people that had looked at. all the data and said I think we're. being lied. to how do you feel about it now looking. back I'm so glad I didn't take it but in. terms of the backlash that you got Joe. it's great yeah it's great exposed them.

absolutely exposed everyone who did it. is gone now Brian stelter's. gone Rachel mad I she was. dogmatically in Evangelical way saying. that you're not going to get infected if. you get a vaccine I mean has she. accepted that she was wrong she has. buried her head in the sand well there. you go she has never said a word about. it you talk about the corporate Playbook. you know you're absolutely right this is. under you there's a framework of how big. corporations exert their power and part. of that obviously is the political.

environment and that's another issue. right why do politicians take so much. money from Big corporations why they. allowed to do that all political parties. certainly both Democrats and and the. Republicans take money from politician. uh from big big farmer that's. unacceptable capturing the preference. shaping capture of the media um you know. f iic organizations like Bill and. Melinda Gates Foundation capturing the. knowledge environment so funding medical. education sponsoring um uh doctors. conferences and you've got the limited. liability of the legal environment then. you've got something called opposition.

fragmentation so that be means. essentially attacking and smearing those. who are calling out their [ __ ] who. are questioning the narrative and you. were caught in that Joe but I'm sure you. know this take it as a backhanded. compliment because the fact that the. mainstream media went for you in that. way probably orchestrated by Farm I have. no doubt behind the scenes in some way. directly or indirectly meant that they. were worried about what you were saying. and the people that were hearing it and.

um and I also because I've been in the. space as an activist for a long time. with the whole stating stuff you know in. some ways people say to me aim how you. doing how you dealing with all of this. stuff coming out with a vaccine I had. colleagues saying to me you might lose. your medical license and I said well the. truth is more important but also. compared to what went through with. Statin Joe I don't undermine it this is. a walk in the park as soon as I got. attacked in the guardian in the times I. saw that as a sign of progress you know. because Gandhi said first they ignore.

you then they laugh at you then they. fight you then you. win so what you did was tremendous and. in fact it's interesting you um it. sounds like there was some your. intuition ultimately is what led you to. not have combined with obviously those. people that had Strokes it was something. that made you a little bit reluctant to. jump not initially initially I was I. called I was ready I I was remember the. phone call I was like Hey give it to me.

I'm here well I thought of it like a flu. shot I thought of it like everything. else I thought it you know I've always. been very Pro vaccin but people like. know and me too me too but people like. Sanjay gupter as well I honestly think a. lot of this is grounded in in ignorance. and the illusion of knowledge so what. happened was many doctors and the public. were then sold on this new phenomenon. called hybrid. immunity if you've had covid yeah and. you have the vaccine you have extra. immunity I think it was a way to get.

people to get vaccinated absolute. [ __ ] Joe honestly and and that was. published I think in the Lancet and that. makes me think about something else is. that you know I think if we start from a. position and it may sound quite extreme. but this comes from somebody I call the. Steven Hawking in medicine um John IIs. if we start from this position of most. published research findings are. false right and the greater the. financial interests the less likely the. the research findings are to be true if. we start from there then we get to B.

maybe you know have a better. understanding a more precise. understanding of what we should consider. reliable and the lanit what's the the. irony of all of this is this publication. about hybrid immunity was in the lanet. Richard Horton is the editor of the L. and for all intents and purposes I met. him a few times I think he's a good guy. he came to my talk in. London um he published a piece in 2015. you know just to highlight all these the. symptoms that you know we are suffering.

at the moment of the you know uh the. downstream effects of the psychopathic. determins of Health right he published a. paper in 2015 where he had. attended a meeting organized by the. welcome trust in the UK of some of the. top scientists in the world he said it. was chattam rule so he wasn't naming who. these people were but they say they were. very eminent medical scientists and in. this editorial you can look at up online. he said from this discussion one of the. lines was possibly half of the published.

medical literature May Simply Be. untrue and he concluded saying science. has taken a turn toward this is the. editor of the Lancet science has taken a. turn towards. Darkness but who's going to take the. first step to clean up the system. by this stage with the Statin Saga and. other things that were going on. I tried to Lobby I went to Parliament I. spoke to people I spoke to some very. prominent politicians I went to the.

European Parliament I said the situation. is so bad that we need an inquiry you. know honest doctors can no longer. practice honest. medicine and coming back to what we said. earlier I think the whole covid vaccine. Saga with all these ridiculous things. like you're more likely to get side. effects if you've got natural immunity. yet people were being told about hybrid. immunity um the fact that uh you know. there was a coersion there were mandates. the fact that um they've made so much. money out of something that it's so.

poorly efficacious yet has such big side. effects I think this is our moment Joe. honestly this is the moment that we we. expose the whole system and then we. rebuild well that would not be possible. if it wasn't for courageous people like. you so thank you thank you for sticking. your neck out for all that you done for. for being so eloquent and so articulate. about this and being so knowledgeable. and so and your your ability to recall. and express this in clear terms is is so.

it's so needed so powerful and uh I. really appreciate you very much no thank. you Joe and thank you for being a. warrior for the truth because you're not. afraid of having these conversations and. even. continuing to have these conversations. even after all of that debacle with. Spotify and Robert Malone and I remember. watching it and just thinking this is. just unbelievable you know uh the BBC. had a commentator on saying that Joe. Rogan interviewed uh known antivaxer.

Robert Malone and I thought what this. guy was in yeah he had the vaccine and. was involved in the original technology. that of the development of nine patents. on the creation of mRNA vaccine. technology and he was vaccinated and he. had a horrific side effect from the. vaccine and that's what yeah sort of. radicalized him thank you very much I. really appreciate you uh please tell. people your social media your website so. they can find more sure um on Twitter.

I'm Dr asotra my website's just Dr. as.com uh Instagram lifestyle medicine. doctor and um yeah that's about it and. you know if when people uh you know when. they see the podcast and they're. interested of course in um you know our. documentary film we're going to be. interviewing the likes of John Abramson. Rita redberg he's she's the editor of. John matal medicine as agree Jay bachara. some really big names uh in American. Healthcare very credible people um. really to do the most important I think.

the best documentary you can no HS B and. exposing all of this commercial. corruption but also giving people. Solutions well when it comes out we'll. be happy to promote it thank you very. much thank you bye everybody. [Music]. [Applause]. [Music].