Joe Rogan Experience #1970 - Bill Ottman

[Music]. by night. hello Billy good to see you buddy what's. going on. we're here man. you are here everything's going wild how. was your uh site going. it's going we're decentralizing as fast. as possible getting it out of our hands. so that we need to protect ourselves.

from ourselves how do you do that. tell everybody it's Maps mines mines. rather sorry mines.com m-i-n-d-s just. had uh Rick Dobrev psychedelics on the. brain I sense kinship with maps yeah. um yeah mines and Maps the two of them. should go together perfectly they. probably should work seamlessly Yeah so. basically. there's protocols and there's platforms. so. you know Twitter Minds other social.

networks these are platforms they're. kind of built in the traditional social. media Style. which is on servers that are you know. live in huge Cloud centers. um and but there's also protocols the. one that we're working with now is. called Noster which stands for notes and. other stuff transmitted by relay so. there's no company owns this protocol. the founder is anonymous sort of similar. to bitcoin. and what it is.

is it's all about crypto key Pairs and. signing stuff so. with Noster this is all happening in the. background on mines every user has a. cryptographic key pair which you can. download your settings you're the only. one who gets the private key. that's your identity your content your. followers all that is tied to your. identity so when you post something when. you follow somebody. that is creating a signature on this.

decentralized network of relay nodes so. we run a relay. thousands of other people run relays. snowden's on Noster now it's like. getting serious. endorsement. and it's because it doesn't have a. company you know because companies are. choke points. that can you know we saw would have on. Napster for instance. what happened with amster Napster just. got rocked by the music industry and. they basically died I mean they still. sort of exist but they pretty much got.

taken down because there was that entity. to go after I see so if they were. decentral but there was no real. decentralization back then was there. well torrents are descendants right. torrents actually and Noster is there's. work that we're involved with now on. integrating Noster with Torrance so that. more heavy Files video and rich media. can be shared over the network right now. it's it's text and links essentially. what is your opinion when it comes to. copyright protection and stuff like that.

well like if someone has copyrighted. material like say if like NBC has a show. and then someone uploads it. I mean that's illegal. right but if it's on torrents it's like. how do you get it down you don't you. don't you don't so it's just even though. it's illegal yeah I mean and that that's. why like so we have moderation I mean if. if a copyrighted video gets reported on. mines then you know we will take it down. from our interface but it still exists.

on the decentralized network so you. really can't stop people from sharing it. no no no so you know I think I kind of. have a nuanced view on copyright like. I think that people's work should be. protected and you know not stolen and. monetized but at the same time it's just. like the nature of information yeah is. not compatible with copyright right. right just because information wants to. do what it wants to do that's one of the. weirder things about what's happening.

with the Internet is that essentially as. time goes on it becomes more and more. difficult to control what was what's. just ones and zeros like as they're out. there the bottlenecks between people and. information they're getting broader it's. getting more and more difficult to stop. things and I think as time goes on it. would be impossible I don't think. there'll be any stuff I think. in the future like anything I have a.

feeling that we'll we'll have zero. privacy in the future I have a feeling. that. all of this. encryption and all this stuff I think. it's all going to be invalid once. Quantum Computing is. ubiquitous I think I just have a feeling. that there's no way you can stop. information. when when. technology. moves past where it is now to some place. where basically anybody could get access.

to anything at any time and then the. problem becomes how do you control money. when that happens because money. in a lot of. I mean a lot of it is just ones and. zeros and the only thing that stops you. from being able to steal it or transfer. it is encryption when when you don't. have any more encryption and anyone kind. of has access to anything that's online. so yeah I hear you it does seem like. over time technology is working against.

privacy and yeah. that's a better way to put it so but you. know encryption hasn't been broke some. encryption has been broken but. encryption is still good it still works. and as as Quantum Computing advances. encryption protocols will advance too so. it is it's a race and there are people. trying to trying to break it but I I. heard the other day you were mentioning. the whole thing with signal and Tucker. yeah and so yeah to clarify that so. based on my understanding signal has not.

been compromised the Pegasus program. that you were referring to. does have the ability to hack people and. get into their device but once you get. into the someone's it's actually easier. to get into someone's machine or phone. than it is to hack the encryption. protocol so if you can get into. someone's phone then you can you. probably can get into their messages so. that's different that's different than. signal being irrelevant right it's not. that signals are relevant but it's just.

that the government right now has the. ability to get into things no matter. what all you according to Gavin debecker. is a Securities expert he said all they. need is your phone number Signal one. excuse me Pegasus one was you needed a. link so someone would have to that's the. whole Jeff Bezos story someone sent him. a link on WhatsApp he clicked on that. link bang all of a sudden they have. access to his phone right and you have. to be super sophisticated to lock. yourself down to avoid that like I'm.

sure that there are people who well I. know there are people who are probably. less victim to something like Pegasus. sure probably less victim but I mean I. guess with a guy like Jeff Bezos he. probably has someone scan his phone all. the time but I wonder if they could even. detect Pegasus at this point yeah and if. we know about Pegasus too how do we know. if there's a pegasus three like whatever. sort of workarounds they've found I'm. I'm sure we're not going to be privy to. it until it's too late yeah I mean the.

layers of surveillance kind of keep. zooming out and. you know I think this whole this whole. intelligence world is. is getting out of control I mean because. you got you've got artificial. intelligence you've got we have what we. know is the state of human intelligence. we then have what is speculated to be. potential non-human intelligences have. you heard about this Arrow office that. just came out no so. Arrow all domain anomaly research office.

that in the ndaa recently. um there's all these UFO. pieces of language and so and. Christopher Mellon who you've had on is. kind of really knowledgeable about this. I learned a lot of this from him. um and anyway the reason I'm talking. about this is I think that intelligence. and like secret information like as it. transcends through the corporate world. in the government world like it's all. kind of interconnected and like the the.

same types of models are used so but. anyway arrow is the ndaa that recently. passed now gives all these whistleblower. protections to people to come forward. which is an absolute Game Changer and. um arrow is this new office that's like. decently funded I think like 11 million. a year or something like that and. they're doing an audit basically of the. government on these issues and I think. that it it correlates to surveillance to.

me at least in a speculate uh you know. in in speculation. because like what is this system like. right if they're here which I don't know. but that is surveillance. and you know. it's just all compartmentalized and we. don't know what's going on so that's why. it's great that this office exists. so like if someone wants to get a hold. of what. I feel like. with with think when you have something. like Pegasus all you have to do is have.

access to it and you can get a hold of. anything and someone wouldn't even know. if you obviously Tucker didn't know I. don't know what kind of security. protocols Tucker's company or what you. know what he uses but obviously he. didn't know that they had access to his. phone. right yeah I don't know all the. specifics of Pegasus but you know we. also know everything from Snowden and. the prism program which you know maybe. was wine was winded down a little bit I.

remember I hear heard some of of that. stuff got rolled back but realistically. no no no no. it's probably expanded and for sure yeah. yeah I mean I I'd imagine they could do. what I imagine they could just get all. the access to anyone who's in in any. room just zoom in on that room know. where all the the you know phone numbers. are and just bam. yeah but the Paradox of. having all these back doors is that it.

makes everybody less safe it makes all. of the government people less safe to. have these back doors I mean right in. the in some of the Twitter files you. know we found that these War these uh. chat rooms that they had were they were. using signal yeah the government uses. signal very heavily yeah and you know. the Twitter rooms where they had people. from you know the social media industry. and. um. they they use that so to advocate for.

back doors into encryption is just like. self-mutilation. um. it's bizarre it's bizarre but it's one. of those things where they want to use. it on other people even if it could be. used against them they probably feel. like a lot of the people they're. checking in on don't have access to that. like you're like a standard journalist. like they want to like zoom in on Matt. taibi's phone I'm sure he doesn't have. access to that so it's like he can't use. it on them but they could use it on him. yeah I just feel like we're living in.

sort of a. petri dish a little bit I I just like. the the type of information that like. the level of discourse on this planet. right now is very like tampered down. compared to what's really going I mean. that's just an undeniable fact. yeah I mean there's uh and this is this. is. um verified I I actually I'm a [ __ ]. dork I read the whole Wikipedia article. but just about top secret information. and like all the levels and.

the US government produces more. classified information than. non-classified information. so even if like there's an audit they. could redact everything. yeah and it's just all these different. uh divisions and departments and they. all have their own protocols so just. getting a handle on it is I mean that's. the first thing that has to get done we. have to but not not that we're even. gonna get the real information from.

there right but um but then there's also. the National Security aspect of it it's. like you know you have to have some. things redacted because you know of. China and Russia like you need to say. that and then yeah that is the phrase. that gets used sure so because they have. a full like clamp down on their. population I mean they they limit the. access to the internet they're they're. in it is essentially like China based. like you vpns are illegal it's like and. they're trying to do that here in.

America it's all backwards yeah with the. restrict act that is why it's getting. it's getting nasty 20 years if you use a. VPN which is hilarious and it's it's. managed by the Commerce Department. unelected bureaucrats are the ones see. tick tock's actually not named in that. act right they're just letting the. Secretary of Commerce decide which apps. yeah that's insane it's insane so. um yeah Dan Crenshaw posted about it he.

he. he thinks it's not that big a deal. because he thinks that you know there's. a lot of Acts that get pushed and then. they never get passed through but what's. disturbing is just the idea the desire. to do this and the fact that imagine if. it did get passed I mean it's just a. [ __ ] full-on assault on Free Speech. yeah I mean it seems to be. getting a toxic stigma connected to did.

you see Jesse Waters Grill Lindsey. Graham about it no I didn't oh. he didn't read it but he endorsed it oh. Jesus and it was and he just got. completely called out it was it was. really funny like that should be illegal. if you should not even be able to sign. right something that you haven't read. and they can't read it it's too it's too. long right there's not enough time. there's not enough time that's a lot of. these acts right. oh and they slip a bunch of [ __ ] in. there that's like wait a minute what. about page 485 like what the [ __ ] is.

going on there and then like oh. I'm gonna read that. yeah I mean well it's just like because. it changed discourse in this country. it's going to change what people have. you know the the access that people have. to free speech and communication and I. mean I think a lot of people endorsed it. righteously being concerned about Tick. Tock you know. that's what was so sneaky is you know. they they enrage you to then support. This Disaster yeah um and it's just like.

we we can all agree that there's a. problem with Tick Tock and that there's. you know the Chinese government having. access to all of this data is is. problematic. but like we there should be an encrypt. act like. encrypt everything but you can't go. around Banning apps it just doesn't work. it's irrelevant people are going to use. uh vpns I I think this this uh act needs. I don't think it's going to make it. I I hope you're right yeah because more.

people are talking about a Tulsi gabbard. posted a big thing about it there's a. lot of people that are up in arms but my. concern is if it wasn't for social media. that act which was kind of ironic right. if it wasn't for social media and people. sharing this and becoming outraged and. people discussing this it would have. slipped right through like the Patriot. active the Patriot Act existed in a time. where there wasn't social media and. people weren't really aware of what they. were pushing through until it was too. late. yeah I think there's much better.

Solutions I mean. did you watch any of the tick tock CEO. getting grilled yes I did okay so yeah. you know that was interesting because. you know he's a pretty he seemed like a. sober guy. um but in his point was well you have to. have consistent standards for other. social media companies too I mean right. face like how do we know that Facebook. and Google just because they're us-based. doesn't mean that they're not giving. data to China we have no idea we have no. idea so that's really the issue we need.

to understand what specifically are all. of these apps doing they should be. labeled very specifically. um you know and we're starting to see. some of that happen but the thing is you. can't know with these proprietary apps. because they're just not sharing. anything I think one of the problems. that people have with uh whether any. kind of decentralized. um app like yours or any other d. decentralized uh social media network is.

that people immediately go Oh what do I. have to do to do this like Mastodon when. people started using Mastodon and you. get on it you're like what is this. there's so many servers and how do I. know what to join and what what's going. on here like yeah so well mines is. different mines is actually not fully. decentralized we're a hybrid so we run a. centralized infrastructure but we. interface through. delegation delegated cryptographic. events signing we we that's happening in. the background but like our app feels.

like. a normal social media app it's different. masted on the way that that works is. Federated instances so there's all of. these different instances with different. URLs and there's like 20 people on each. one and you know but there is sort of. some interoperability between the. instances because the you can subscribe. to somebody on another instance from. your instance but it's not fully. decentralized it's Federated and the. problem is that you don't own your.

identity so if if one of those instances. goes down you're screwed your your stuff. is is gone with in in Noster which is. like an architecturally different setup. and there's other protocols similar to. Noster but it doesn't matter if if the. website goes down you just pop over to. another one upload your your key and all. your stuff is there so and that's why we. like it because it keeps us in check. because our users could can now. basically if we [ __ ] around.

they'll bounce and they can take their. stuff. and that's you know the because the F. the social graph specifically is the key. because you spend a decade bill you know. getting all these followers. people spend their lives doing this and. then to be able to just get taken out by. YouTube is so devastating and unethical. it's really creepy too because many of. the things they took people out for have. turned out to be true like there was a. lot of things that they were labeling as.

disinformation or misinformation which. are 100 proven fact now and people lost. their accounts and there's no recourse. they're not going to reinstate you and. that was a problem also with Twitter. that for the longest time if you said. anything that was contrary to whatever. the narrative was what whether the. government was pushing it or the CDC was. pushing it like anything contrary to. that narrative he would get [ __ ]. they're not back though I will I think.

Twitter's making way more progress than. everyone else and I'm look I'm. ultimately a neon fan I'm rooting for. him I think it's vastly improved but. there's chaos currently underway at. Twitter oh sure and and those people. have not all been let back on and I. don't really understand the people that. we don't know the people whose random. Joe schmoe posting a covid study like. has he been LED back on all the. thousands of people that got banned like. well I think he essentially let back on. everyone who didn't do anything illegal.

so not Alex not Alex yeah that's true. why yeah well that's a personal opinion. of elons which I don't agree with at all. yeah because they let Andrew Tate on. right you know it's like that doesn't. mean that he's endorsing Alex to let him. back on right it doesn't I mean because. there's a lot of people that are back on. that are you know. they didn't make that one specific. mistake that Alex made but they've said. some but the mistake that the reason.

Alex was banned was because he confront. it was actually for something he did off. Twitter so he confronted this journalist. Oliver Darcy in a line at some event and. he was you know being Alex Jones sort of. ranting at him yeah and then Twitter. said oh you're bullying this guy. and this is like not acceptable behavior. so yeah so you're gonna leave but then. when I remember you know the exchange. with Elon and whoever it was that was. asking asking it was that he hadn't been. let on because of the Sandy Hook stuff.

yeah which is not the same that's not. even why he was banned right so. you know it's not easy I I understand. you know the politics of it and he. probably has Tim Cook being like. you know we're not going to advertise if. you have Alex Jones but I don't know. what's going on but it doesn't seem to. me because he could he could win the. argument if he would just let him back. on right and and did you see this crazy. clip of uh of Elon and the BBC guy I did.

I posted it today oh you did it was. amazing amazing it was amazing it was. amazing yeah because I kept trying to. change subjects and let's move on like. no no no no no no no no no no no no what. the [ __ ] are you talking about because. that guy thought he could just say the. narrative without specific examples like. give me an example and the guy had no. examples that's most people who are. concerned about this wow this is like a. lot of people that I know that are. famous that like publicly announced they. were leaving Twitter and you know one of.

them I really love and I was like why. are you doing I didn't even say anything. to her but I'm like why are you doing. this this is so dumb like you you're. just doing this because this is the. thing that everyone feels like they're. supposed to do hey well Twitter's kind. of [ __ ] now so bye no it was [ __ ]. before it it's less [ __ ] now yeah. there are there people that are going to. say things like what I showed you. earlier today which is hilarious and. someone posted to Kamala Harris after. she said something about the assault. band that shit's important it's. important to have people mock people. like I'm sorry if it hurts someone's.

feelings but that shit's important yeah. and I I think the way that Elon handled. that was great because obviously you. need a specific example to back up an. argument however I sort of think the. whole premise of the conversation is. wrong this idea this war that Twitter is. at with all the think tanks and I think. it was the institute for strategic. discourse that had actually compiled the. information that the BBC guy was talking. about and there is information there. there is data showing you know hate. speech XYZ has has increased however.

this is the wrong conversation it's not. the existence or even rise of hate in. the the presence of that content on an. app is not. you're not just trying to ban hate. Banning hate does not stop hate and this. is what the peer-reviewed research shows. so so trying to bully Elon and Twitter. for look even if there was a bump of. hate speech since it became a little bit.

more free I mean it seems like that's a. potentially. understandable. intermediary effect to happen while. things reorient like we open up free. speech we open up the valve a little bit. okay because we think that this is going. to be healthy for Society Long Term. so let it bump a little bit we need that. we need to see what we hate or what. other people hate you need to like what. is it. um free speech let us lets us know who.

the idiots are like you you need to. identify them yes yeah yeah the the best. response to whatever it is bad speech is. better speech there's better arguments. and that's you literally have a debate. platform which is what Twitter. essentially is. yeah that is the purpose yeah it's the. purpose yeah yeah and not to mention. that the hate isn't defined so it's only. one type of hate that these people are. typically referring to right wing hate.

right wing hey yeah right that's that's. okay and so actually so uh we're we're. suing California we just filed this law. because the uh this uh complaint. they are trying to pass this social. media law called ab587 which. requires it's a censorship law they're. they require these policies on. disinformation misinformation hate. speech and then they use the undefined. use the words extremism and.

radicalization there's no definitions. they don't require you to have a a child. exploitation material policy but they do. require you to have a policy on hate. which isn't defined right and so we're. suing them with uh with the Babylon B. and and Temple when did they start this. uh when when they start trying to pass. us. it just went into effect in January so. it's now it's now it's in so if you live. in California what's the repercussions.

so it is it's it's targeted at social. media companies okay so basically. mandating that social media companies. um have the submit these policies so we. would have to we would they would force. us to write a policy on hate speech. and submit it to them and then. additionally we would have to on like a. biannual basis submit analytics about. all of our moderation data which. honestly we're already transparent about. our moderation data so that's that's.

largely public anyway we have a jury. system. um and and we have in-house moderators. but the it's it's just it's a huge. burden like it's crazy that they would. expect. companies to submit all that and then. have these arbitrarily well actually not. arbitrarily specifically chosen. categories for policies that are clearly. politically charged and knew some like. when he came out and announced this law. it was very you know we have to stop. hate on social media and misinformation.

and disinformation protect. Society protect democracy no you know. you're not protecting democracy by. stopping free speech that is there's no. there's no checks and balances in place. if something turns out to be accurate. where then whoever put out that. disinformation initially. like if someone like someone posts. something like say Mass don't work and. they get banned off of Twitter and say. oh this is in response to the cdc's but.

if it turns out that mass actually don't. work the CDC doesn't get punished which. is kind of [ __ ] crazy because if. they're the ones that are setting these. guidelines and these guidelines turn out. to be inaccurate and people get banned. off of social media for arguing with. these out these these guidelines there's. no repercussions there's nothing you. know that just these people are [ __ ]. and there's no recourse right actually. that's the policy that we do need we. need the policy for social social. networks and media companies to you know.

apologize and and fix their wrongs yeah. well and also like why wouldn't the CDC. be punished then or shouldn't they be. banned or shouldn't they be like have a. strike against them but they're not it's. like. it's it's really frustrating because. you're dealing with narratives that are. oftentimes 100 propaganda and they're. not backed by science they're not bad. it's just like some things that people. say like Rachel Maddow was on on.

television telling everybody that this. vaccine stops the virus in its tracks if. you get vaccinated the virus can no. longer affect you it can't affect anyone. else it stops and we can get out of this. thing well that's not [ __ ] true at. all and that person there was no. repercussion other than public mockery. which continues this day where you know. whenever she posts something people post. that video what about this stupid and. you know there's nothing other than that. I know they're not even inviting. um the other side on to correct the.

issues they're certainly not you know. correcting their errors and you know. it's just not that hard to have to I. mean you're wrong I don't know maybe it. is hard for but people get into their. own Egos and they just can't handle it. well there's people that are Beyond. approach and that's the problem or. organizations that you know like one of. the things that's fascinating about. Twitter now is they fact check the Biden. Administration so the bond. Administration put out some tweets that. were 100 horseshit and then underneath. it Twitter fact checked them so they.

deleted the tweets which is glorious. like that that's that's amazing and. that's never happened before yep. Community notes is my favorite feature. on Twitter by far it keeps everybody in. check it has a process for kind of. vetting information surfacing it to the. top you know. showing the better idea to the bad idea. and actually their uh their Community. note stuff is all open source it was a. little bit disappointing though when. they open source the algorithm the other. day. open source the algorithm. um which step in the right direction I'm.

not trying to. um not trying to attack but. you know what we learned basically is. that it's not the live algorithm. it's an algorithm what do you mean so. what does that mean so it's not the. production algorithm at least from what. we can tell because you saw what. happened with sub stack so has that been. reversed. um I think it has yeah I I don't I would. need to confirm I I think that the the. ability to engage with those posts got. changed back but then like taibi's post. you can even search them and but the.

point being is that and I. submitted a comment on their GitHub. where this algorithm exists it's like. well if this is the algorithm why wasn't. the sub stack blocking showing up in the. algorithm the other day I mean it wasn't. it wasn't there so clearly there's some. sort of a link Blacklist. um and you know Twitter did say that. this isn't the whole algorithm and. they're going to be releasing more over.

time but the problem is we should have. seen something change. in that when all the sub stack blocking. went down. so how many users does mines have now. um we are 5 million oh that's great we. actually had to take a little haircut. because we. um you know and we're trying to be as. honest as possible because oh basically. we had been counting that people who you. know fail data is hard.

and so people who had like tried to sign. up were in our data showing as signed up. so you know. back backed it up a little bit but the. point being we don't use any closed. Source proprietary analytics tools so. like the temptation. when you're running a startup. trying to create an app is to just go to. the you know Silicon Valley. display case of Google analytics and. customer.io and all of these.

surveillance tools there and analytics. tools that are very powerful and can. give you very precise data about what's. going on but but we have refused to use. any of those tools because you when you. you put Google analytics on your website. you are becoming Google you are now part. of Google's tentacles and you're. basically handing over all your that. user data to Google and we just like our.

whole Foundation has been. fully open source and just don't take. shortcuts and so we're gonna like our. growth path is is healthy it's happening. we're continually growing but we're I'm. not gonna I I don't care about the pace. of growth as much as the quality. and so you know we built a whole day. like we do machine learning we we're. starting to do AI but we're doing it in. an open source way so like in the AI.

Wars right now you have like open quote. unquote open AI which isn't you know. it's barely open they don't share much. of what's going on and they shroud that. in some sort of like oh we're you know. we need to protect you and we need to. not let this get out of control which. maybe there's an element of Truth to. that but then there's a whole other part. of the AI world like with stable. diffusion and instability and. we're all it's all open source and it's. being done in the open and everybody has. access. because.

you know do you. as you see all this AI stuff coming. about you do you think that. you should how do you feel about that do. you think that you should be. compensating away do you have any like. you mentioned copyright do you have any. issues with it no I mean it is what it. is there's no stopping that and um I saw. it a long time ago because uh what this. company from Canada was the first one to. take uh all of. um I mean they they essentially got a.

database of all my uh audio recordings. which is [ __ ] thousands of them so. there's so many hours of me talking that. they could easily have me saying a bunch. of things and so they uh put together. like uh just this recording of me saying. a bunch of things that I've never said. and me talking about some subjects and. doing these things and it was a. conversation that I never had and then. they did one with me doing a podcast.

with Steve Jobs which is wild and then. now there's a new one with me doing a. podcast with Sam Altman. and uh it's a full listen to the. beginning of that one I think they did. it Tastefully because they made it very. clear that it's not you yes yeah it's a. proof of concept it's like they're. showing that this is something that can. be done and there's no flavor to it. which is interesting like there's no. like if you and I are having a. conversation it's there's fun there's. like there's laughing there's you know. there's like there's human interaction.

this was just like question answer yeah. and you would be like oh well that's. interesting yeah and that just kept. happening you can tell right yeah yeah. you can kind of tell but for now for now. I mean they'll be able to sort of code. your personality in the future and sort. of gauge yours and maybe even have some. you know some weird interactions that. are just silly that you could sort of. program in that make it look like.

personality and make it and you can do. that now you can uh prompt more like. casual attitude yeah but I think that. okay so maybe you don't care and that's. because I don't care it's just that it. is what it is right would I rather it. not exist of course of course I mean I. just I'm getting sent these things where. I'm doing these ads for products oh geez. that I've never used and I've never. talked about and you know these.

companies and we tried to chase one of. them down it was like I think it was. like a testosterone booster or something. like that but you when you do go down. this Rabbit Hole legally when you sick a. lawyer on it they're like Jesus Christ. like there's a web like there's there's. shell company companies shell. corporations it's very difficult to find. it's all overseas very difficult to find. who's is actually making this and how. they would profit off of it. yeah when we talk about AI like. displacing work you know on a mass scale.

I think that we do have to have a. conversation about these companies and. you know where they're getting all their. data and you know who's getting. compensated yeah so I actually prompted. chat GPT and asked it you know do you. have the rights to the data that you're. using and it said it's it they said no. it said that we we do not have access or. rights to all of the data that we're. using. and that you know that could become more. of a concern over time I posted this and.

so what does that mean you know because. what are they doing they're scraping the. the world's use of language they're all. the data all the imagery everything and. so. when we talk about open AI becoming you. know uh worth hundreds of billions of. dollars probably that's it's fastest. growing app in the history of the world. right it got to 100 million fashion like. way faster than everybody doing massive. you know 10 billion dollar deal with. with Microsoft they're profiting off of.

the world's data right so I'm not saying. that that's not okay at all but I mean. if something that I created that I. didn't give them permission to use is. get you know if they're profiting off of. that basically I think there's a world. where the some type of Ubi that but the. companies. pay people so like we we split Revenue. with our users. we we do like crazy rev share programs.

because our whole thing is like if you. bring energy to this network like get. paid so how does that work like when you. say Revenue like what kind of Revenue. we're talking about and like where's. Revenue coming from so we have mines. plus mine's Pro similar to in. functionality to like Twitter blue but. we do uh you get more reach more. exposure uh verified and more video. upload HD you pay monthly yeah you pay. monthly yeah you know.

um mine's plus is like seven bucks. mine's Pros more but mine's first 50 a. month. 50. yeah that's like dude I'm I'm I. think people want to support platforms. that they care about what do you get. here's a tip you just get a lot more. videos dude video is so expensive right. because you have to put it up. transcoding and you have to transcode it. into like every version in its mother we. have we have free users who are actually. costing us like I shouldn't even say. this because but.

because they're just uploading video all. day and it's getting no traffic so it's. like they're costing us lots of money. but it's okay that's that we want free. video upload but like you know YouTube. for like the amount that they're paying. like they were losing money forever. because of that right so the video is is. killer but you know basically and then. we also have uh non-surveillance Native. ad Network where you can boost your. posts and so you can people can pay for. that but what we do is that well so one. if you serve boost on your page we give.

you we split it with you and we may even. go deeper and give people more than half. for that for the ads that they're. serving and then additionally if you get. someone to buy a membership you get half. is anyone that's cool forever is anyone. making a living off of Mines there are. some yes really yeah so they that's. their job as they post on mines yep wow. how much money well one of them I mean. you know they're you know they're making. thousands of dollars a month so you know. it's it's money it's real money yeah. yeah um but that you know if.

thing if you're doing it in a. traditional business way like we're. going to build a sales force. um and bring on a bunch of sales reps. and send them out into the world and. help sell our product and give them a. commission you know maybe typically a. company if they're trying to do a a. sales a sales force you know they make. 20 commission maybe 10 to 20 commission. if you sell something. we're just like well I don't really want. to manually. hire everybody like why wouldn't we just.

offer this crazy commission to our whole. Community yeah and then. because we are. Community owned so our code is owned by. everybody everybody owns their content. we're actually we we just reopened our. uh stocks you can buy our stock on. refunder right now. um we want to be owned by the world so. um. yeah so it's like a distributed sales. force but you know because like not.

everybody's a big Creator so you know. only some people can make a ton of money. serving ads on their page there's only a. certain type of people that that that's. relevant to you know a couple a normal. person on social media might be able to. make you know a dollar a couple dollars. a month they get a few views. um but the reason the commission program. matters is because everybody has a. network everybody has friends everybody. um every everybody can be a you know. have boots on the ground and go off and.

do work and and and sell stuff so you. know if you sell a thousand dollar ad. deal on mines take 500. like and and that's real incentive we. want to like really like go far beyond. so you know here's a tip for Elon and. Elon you know would love to to. collaborate with you but he should have. like a thousand dollar a month option. people would pay. people want Twitter to win and what.

would you get for a thousand bucks a. month dude people what's worth 12 Grand. a year. I mean if you got you could bake in. advertising you could bake in a lot of. advertising so you're you get a lot more. reach you could get. um access to the Twitter team you know. there's stuff that people will pay for. people want to grow on social media. because you know reach is influence. right but wouldn't that be a problem. then you're you're only allowing that.

reach for people that have a lot of. money no it's afford a thousand bucks a. month yeah but they're already selling. ads. you can already do that. what's the difference if you just bake. it into a subscription so how does it. work because I've never bought an ad on. those things like just click add give a. credit card say how many you know how. much you want to spend per day how long. you want it to go and it just shows up. in people's feeds yep. because I always wonder like why why is. this in my feed because for a long time. it wasn't and then now you do see these.

like paid ads yeah the promoted post and. you know it's we the people who who do. it on minds are much less like annoying. advertisers and more so just artists and. people trying to get the word out about. their stuff yeah. and so what's your typical user base. like how are you how are you attracting. people other than like coming on a. podcast and talking about it people just. find us organically looking for. alternatives to Big Tech I mean people.

are sick of this [ __ ] this is insane. everything has gotten totally out of. hand and it's just Unapologetic like. with Facebook and Google you know. they're just not. they're not leveling with everybody like. Okay so. we understand that there's horrible. content on the internet like let's deal. with this and not erode freedom of. speech and like I would love to see you. know Sundar prashai or or Zuckerberg or. you know Tim Cook like have more of a.

balanced conversation about this but it. just seems like whenever they talk about. it it's like they're it's like they're. posturing it doesn't feel real and like. they're really acknowledging. even like the the academic conversation. with regards to censorship because the. academics are saying that censorship. causes increased radicalization. so what's going on here. yeah.

what. what are the what other things could be. done to sort of level the playing field. I mean. open sourcing is. Foundation number one like everyone's. afraid you know look they're companies. will say oh we couldn't share our secret. our secret sauce you know that's what. that's what makes us competitive but.

you it's just it's just really not true. like you can use software licenses as. well that restrict people so you can. still be transparent like for instance. there's this there's this really cool. app called uniswap which is a. decentralized uh protocol for crypto so. you can swap tokens with the there's no. intermediary and they used a time. delayed GPL GPL is general public. license one of the most famous free. software licenses but they basically.

said look we want we need to be. transparent no one takes anything in. crypto seriously unless it's transparent. and audited. um so we're gonna make it so that we're. showing you all the code you can make. sure we're not spying on you doing. anything sketchy but if you're a. commercial entity you cannot Fork our. code and compete with us for the next. two years so they basically were giving. themselves a head start the license that. we use is the GPL V3 which says that. anyone can do whatever they can and. people do there are other versions of.

Minds around the world people running it. and having their own social network. but if they make changes they have to. share those changes with the world so. it's referred to as copy left in kind of. the copyright world it's basically that. yeah we're you you have to it's sort of. a Pay It Forward I borrowed from you I'm. going to use that to build my business. yeah I'm gonna sell it I'm gonna make a. ton of money but you know the. development that I did I also have to. share.

and there's many others I mean there's. even licenses that are way more. restrictive but still provide the. transparency there's ones that are just. read only like listen you can read read. this and see it but you cannot touch it. you know that would be a step in the. right direction for Facebook but and the. thing is that they know about this power. dynamic because they do create tons of. Open Source tools like. react and Facebook created react which. is like one of the most popular. JavaScript Frameworks and you know.

angular was made by Google and tons of. databases and back-end tools. these big tech companies do contribute a. ton to open source but they only do it. on the stuff that. you know are Developer tools because. they know that the developers will only. use their stuff if it's open source. developers are are never gonna use. something that they don't have control. over so it's like this very intentional. game that they're playing their main. apps they do not they're not transparent.

about at all but they know that they. need the developer energy so. you know I think that they should just. do it and the the great thing even. though the Twitter algorithm is not you. know there yet I think that Elon is when. I saw that happening I would just like. finally you know it's like one of the. big guys dipped their toe in the water. but it really has to be someone like. Elon who's eccentric and insanely. wealthy who's willing to go out on a.

limb for 44 billion dollars in overpay. for a company and then sort of like. [ __ ] throw it upside down. but it's you know it's it's working it's. working and it's you know besides all. the people that like publicly decry that. they were done like that's not real like. the the reality is like that's not. really that important the real important. stuff is the mass amounts of humans that. are constantly sharing information and. that seems to have gone up.

yeah I think that Elon also just. change the way that. the billionaires act like. before him you know who's another. billionaire that [ __ ] posts memes nobody. I mean just but that don't underestimate. and I know you don't but the fact that. he did that I think it sort of paves the. way for other people up on his level to. start being more real do you think so I.

hope so I I think most of them are. cowards and they just don't have the. courage to like be that wild. and just really post things they think. are funny like when he for me my. favorite one ever was the Bill Gates one. when he posted the photo of Bill Gates. next to a pregnant man emoji and it's. like if you ever want to lose a boner. real fast. and he has a specific uh beef with Bill. Gates because he's shorting Tesla stock. yeah but yeah exactly I mean they should.

it's good for people like real things. people don't like fake things like they. should even if they were being uh. sketchy and like manipulative about it. like they should be acting real because. that's what people like I saw Bezos uh. tweeting Bezos I I think he wants to. come out of his shell he was tweeting. some like a Barry Weiss article which. was weird interesting you know because. Amazon we we just ditched Amazon we. moved our whole operation. over to Oracle because they're more.

committed to free speech. um and you know does Amazon censor I. mean they ban parlor oh did they yeah. interesting yeah and they have much. worse terms which like kind of. spell out what was their justification. for Banning parlor did they make a. statement. it was all around the Gen 6 stuff and. you know uh extremism type reasons and. meanwhile all that content is on.

Facebook and on other certainly on other. platforms that were on AWS so do you. think that that's just a sort of uh like. a PR move to band parlor. partially I don't know all the specifics. of. you know the back and forth between them. and I you know it's. I don't know if they were War given. warning or the ability right but the. thing is even if they were it's like. what Amazon would have been at you know. take down this content or you're gonna.

or you're gonna have to leave. um you know that would be violating what. they were trying to do with with free. speech was you know because there's. there's a group of companies now that. are like pro-free speech platforms which. is are gaining dominance it's awesome. you know you got Rumble you've got. um parlor you've got mines you've got. you know there's there's a bunch of them. and. but unfortunately the the waters get. muddied because you know. Rumble uses Google analytics they are.

totally closed Source they don't so so. they're they're doing this some some of. the speech stuff right which is. absolutely essential and so again it's a. huge step in the right direction I. actually had a back and forth with um. with Chris the their CEO and he said. that he would be open to some some open. source stuff except he's been icing me. on a couple emails recently so. um it's probably busy though no oh he's. very busy. um but I think that this open source. issue like needs to be honed on we can't. we can't just let the next wave of free.

speech companies be doing all the same. [ __ ] that big Tech was doing on the. technological end we can't just let them. keep doing the surveillance keep doing. the secrecy it's not we're not moving. forward if that is where we ultimately. end up so. but what I'm hoping so we we're core. developers at well we contributed a a. um what's called a nip which is a Noster.

Improvement proposal which is the. framework which could enable a site like. Twitter or rumble or any of them to. integrate Noster like we do so you don't. have to be fully decentralized but you. can imp you can integrate nip 26 which. is delegated event signing so that your. users have an escape hatch. and. that that's really all people want. people are going to keep using Twitter. just because of fully decentralized. option exists doesn't mean people are.

going to stop using Twitter and I feel. like that's kind of what Elon has in his. head because he even Noster was on the. remember when. um. like a couple months ago Twitter came. out with this policy like we're Banning. links to Instagram Facebook and Mastodon. and then they they rolled it back do you. remember that I don't so they did do. that. um and people were bugging out like of. course and and so they they rolled back. the policy they said okay we're not. going to do that Noster was actually on. that list so so they're aware of of this.

system but I think that they're they're. thinking about it the wrong way because. the fully decent like there's a um a. fully pure Noster client called Damas. which is super nice. um and it is it's a great option but. you know fully decentralized options. don't have a ton of functionality you. know they don't have the notifications. they don't have a lot of the. discoverability of stuff there's there's. serious limitations with fully. decentralized stuff that's never going.

to be able to compete with more of like. a centralized option where you can do. all this fancy. uh data processing and whatnot so I. think that this like this idea that we. need to push out to decentralized. competitors is really just like the. wrong State like if Elon repeatedly says. like we need to maximize public Trust. and I do believe that he believes that. and wants that and that's why he's. trying to be more transparent. but maximizing public trust is about you.

know give people their own keys and then. you know that's going to hold the. company accountable and then if you know. Twitter messes around they can go pop. over someone else but they don't lose. all their stuff. but how would you possibly move. Twitter stuff to some other network. though. because if they give you how like say. let's let's say if someone did something. like that and you had all your posts on. Twitter you've been on Twitter since. 2009. and you know Minds gives you the.

ability to Port your [ __ ] over to there. how the [ __ ] would you ever wind up. doing that. I mean if if it gets integrated then all. the posts can just be. signed and then if it gets integrated. yeah that seems like they'll be very. beneficial to minds but not very. beneficial to Twitter because the end of. the day Twitter is still a company but. but think about the we're a company I. mean right but it would be beneficial to. you you're far smaller right how many.

users does Twitter have oh of course. hundreds of millions right right but. we actually there were people on our. team who asked the same question to our. team why would we. um give people the ability you know why. would we let people you know they're. just gonna go take their mind stuff and. go somewhere else so it's not like. just us it's not right so you're a very. small company relatively speaking like. when you first came on the podcast I.

think you had two million is that what. it was somewhere around there yeah that. sounds right and now you're more than. double that you're five million but. relatively speaking when people start. talking about social media networks. mines does not get into the conversation. it's a mass you know distributor of. information right and you know now. Rumble is yeah and you know why there's. been a lot of money oh God they've spent. so they came to me with a [ __ ] [ __ ]. same thing happening with sub stack. they're spending millions of dollars.

bringing over top talent it's not. sustainable so but now I wonder about it. I hope I mean it's just I'm like how. much are you guys spend it's a lot of. [ __ ] money right and they have. Stephen Crowder on there they have. Russell Brand they have all these people. that I know they had to Fork up some. serious cash. yeah I don't I don't know I mean I think. that they're they're well bankrolled. that's for sure yeah and it's also seems. to be working in terms of like just.

generating more publicity and and users. and I know there was something that was. on Rumble recently I forget what the. video was but it was over two million. views I was like that's significant yeah. I know it's great I mean it's great for. these options it's very validating. regardless see I'm in it for the actual. speech I want them to succeed I want. that to happen so. um you know I I just. just while it's in my head because I I.

forgot to bring it up before about sub. stack so Elon actually accused them of. stealing Twitter data. and that was part of his justification. for. um blocking them how do they steal. Twitter data so I mean that's a very. strong word that he used and I don't. know the D all the details but but what. what I know is that so substack is. largely powered by Twitter's API which. means you know API application. programming interface it's basically a. you know a developer tool set so that.

websites can integrate with API Twitter. AP you know you see login with Facebook. log in with Twitter you have tweets. embedded in in sub stack like the the. API is how you facilitate that and. Twitter you know has been uh locking. down its API because. it's been quite frankly probably costing. them millions of dollars because you. know when when sub stack makes an API. call to Twitter that costs Twitter money. so elon's perspective is okay we're.

hemorrhaging money I'm I'm speculating I. don't want to speak put words into his. mouth but I think that he's locking down. the API because. it's costing them so much money to be. supporting all these websites that. aren't paying them right so you know sub. stack the authentication and sign up. uses Twitter the social graph and. recommendations uses Twitter so elon's. tweet said that you know they've been. trying they've basically been abusing. our API to bootstrap their own social. network and because subsack just came. out with a social feed called notes.

right and how does that work it's Pro. it's just a news can you show me that I. want to see what it looks like. What substack notes. because I just heard about this and I. don't I don't want to stay in this table. I just oh it's good to stay in it it's. good it gives it life. this is a relatively new table the old. one we have the old studio is covered in. stains uh introducing sub stack notes. unliking the unlocking the power of the. subscription Network and so.

what is this. so there's a screenshot down there yeah. you have to sign in no just do continue. yeah there it is okay so it's just a. news feed so it looks exactly like. Twitter right literally it has a heart. it has comments and it has uh some sort. of a repost but it's not a square it's a. circle. um it's basically a copy of Twitter. just like uh the truth social network is. right yeah and so so to to dig into that. a little deeper like so you know Mark.

Andreessen. brilliant guy I love that dude I mean. he's super yeah he's he's one of the. most legendary tech investors of all. time and he's so smart and so he is a he. owns I I don't know what percentage of. sub stack but Andreessen Horowitz is one. of sub Stack's primary funders okay. um and Andreas and Horowitz also put. hundreds of million into the Twitter. deal. so there's a an Elon and Andresen are. are probably super tight and so what's.

happening in. um in another tweet Elon had someone had. said you should buy substack and Elon. responded. yeah maybe I will and this was like two. months ago and so they've been pursuing. it seems as though they've been in. negotiation for Twitter to actually buy. Sub stack I mean Elon said it and he's. also super tight with Mark Andreessen. and so. probably. subset thinks it has a certain valuation.

Elon wants to get it for less and was. trying to say listen you are reliant on. us right you're helping you grow and. then I'm thinking about buying and I'm. thinking about buying yourself to me. more money the more time that you're. doing this so what I'm gonna do is cut. off your API access and show you who's. daddy oh. right so I mean who knows because I. don't think they're just speculation I. don't think that he want like without. this to censor and unfortunately Elon. has successfully enraged both mainstream.

and now independent journalists which is. not I don't think he intended for that. to happen but that's what happened I. mean these all the sub stack Journal you. know that's one of the best places for. independent journalism yeah and now. they're all pissed because you know. there was a period of time where their. businesses were screwed well not only. that it was the very people that were. using Twitter to put out these Twitter. these Twitter pages so there were all. the emails that showed the collusion. between the intelligence agencies and.

the former heads of Twitter you know. like this was the same guys and they. were publishing this yeah and like they. all thought they were friends yeah well. as soon as the bunny got involved you. know that's where things get weird right. yeah and so I think it kind of is a a. corporate. um. negotiation. byproduct it seems like that's kind of. what happened because I I don't think. that he intentionally wants to to hurt. those what I like about Elon is he will.

change course. if he doesn't if people respond in a. negative way they don't like it they get. upset he's like okay we won't do that. and he's publicly said that he would do. that and I like that he does do that he. just he's flexible in that regard and. he's not he's not completely dogmatic. about these ideas yeah he's like doing. it live yeah he really is [ __ ] it we'll. do it live yeah yeah he really is which. is kind of interesting and it's also. part of the fun of the chaos of Twitter. under him you know that you've got this.

one incredibly intelligent super. eccentric guy who happens to be one of. the richest people on the Earth and he. decided to take over the and he did it. very specifically because he thinks it's. a threat to democracy that having the. censorship and having this. this control over the access to. information and the narrative which is. what you're previously you were getting. and it's like we see it with YouTube we. see it with these other social media.

networks where someone has a problematic. opinion they get Shadow banned and. ghosted and they their algorithm gets. [ __ ] up their access to new. subscribers gets [ __ ] up and it's. There's real world consequences there's. also demonetization right YouTube's got. this really sneaky thing that they do or. they just demonetize things and so you. self-censor because you don't want to. get demonetized. and you know that's that's not good for. anybody it is an existential threat. having social media platforms censored I. mean that is how humanity is is.

educating itself right but it's also a. new thing right because these things. didn't exist two decades ago so now all. of a sudden we have this new platform. that really should be considered like a. utility and I think your access to it. should really be just like your access. to the internet like if if we just. decide that someone was problematic and. you can't you can't have the internet. anymore holy [ __ ] that would freak. people the [ __ ] out well it should freak. you the [ __ ] out if you don't have. access to YouTube it should freak you.

out because that is the primary way. where people share video and post video. and post their opinions on things. yeah it gets hairy too because Twitter's. still playing this game. with other countries. which we've we've basically said and. actually we're dealing with this right. now. I'll just call them out Germany Germany. has this horrible piece of legislation. called the network Enforcement Act which. is similar to the California thing I was. mentioning and.

you know they want you to take down. stuff at their request and we're just. not going to do that so so we've made. that decision and Twitter's doing that. Twitter's doing that yeah Twitter so if. you're only doing it with India. so if India posts something negative. about the government the government. could say take this down and Twitter. Twitter has these interstitials like so. like kind of different content policies. on different states and with so Pakistan. you know there's basically a different. Twitter in all of these different. countries is that because it's the only. way they can be on I mean that's the.

argument is in in that but it's the same. argument that you know Google goes. through when they're like should we go. to China we want to go to China we have. this dragonfly project are we going to. you know let's work on them what is. dragonfly it's like Google's a I I don't. know all the details but it's their kind. of China. uh project their their project to get. Google accessible in China. and have it be okay with the government. I was uh friends with someone who was an. executive at Google back in the day and.

what she described to me was that if. they didn't and they were in negotiation. and doing business with China and she. said if we don't do this they're just. going to copy it they're basically just. going to rip off Google and so we're in. this battle to either appease them with. their rules and and have it go over. there and have you know some things like. Tiananmen Square be censored where you. can't access information about Tiananmen. Square and it's just like well it seems. to be a situation where we kind of have.

to do that or they're just going to copy. Google. yeah I don't think that that's just a. game that we're not interested in. playing I think that we're just gonna. stick to. the laws that we're required to obey and. if other countries are going I mean. we've been banned in China we've been. banned in Vietnam we had a huge wave of. like this was one of our largest we got. like half a million users in like two. days from Vietnam because there was a.

revolving door between their government. and Facebook and. you know the the journalists of Vietnam. found out and we got this huge wave and. then short shortly after Vietnam banned. us. um and but you know they people still. can use vpns at their own risk there I. just feel like it's a losing battle. constantly catering to all of these. different countries and their censorship. laws it feels like just sort of a waste. of time and you can we can bypass all.

that with decentralized protocols and so. you know but I I get it it's it's not. easy especially when you know a company. could go bankrupt and if you you know if. if you lose all your German users you. know if Twitter gets banned in India. like that's a major Pro we're not. dependent on those users so I appreciate. that you're not independent I think what. you do is very important and I'm glad. you're out there I really am and I'm. glad there's this option. and I'm glad you guys have these like. Rock Solid ethics in regards to that.

it's just it's very important and it's I. wonder like at scale if it's like if. Minds if we come back and do another. podcast in two years and mines now has. 50 million or 100 million let's make. that happen yeah like what happens then. and is my I I have to be honest I only. got on Minds a couple times after you. gave me uh you know what's funny you. know you're you're first time sharing. Minds no. it was in like.

2009 or no maybe like 2011. and you. shared this viral video that was going. on in minds of this. like quantum levitation disc I don't. know if you've ever seen that it's like. if you look on if you just search like. Quantum you know superconducting. levitation and you had just seen that. and you know this was way before we knew. each other and you had just shared that. so he sure it's me I'm almost positive. I'm yeah no I had friends message me.

they're like dude Rogan. really yeah I bet it's a fake me no I. think you got duped really let's go look. at it can we find it on your Twitter how. is it how would it be me no because you. just shared a link to a video you didn't. know you just thought you just shared it. on Twitter you shared on Twitter okay. that makes sense yeah no no you weren't. on you weren't a user right yeah okay. yeah. um but that makes sense yeah I think so.

I shared this thing and the Shing this. thing originated on mines and then it. boosted Minds. yeah it was just like one of those like. crazy levitation videos where it's just. like what the hell is going on like this. magnet is just levitating right right. right that sounds like something I would. post yeah. um so like what is like what's do you. have like the number one post ever on. Minds like how many people does it reach. um I mean we yeah we have we have posts.

that have hit. oh probably over a million views and is. it because someone's sharing it on other. social media networks like I did. yep for sure yeah and that's what's so. malicious about these algorithms getting. clamped down is that you know everyone's. in in survival mode right and even. Twitter doesn't what we learn from the. algorithm is that the link you know. links are punished all links so you post. a link on Twitter it's get it it's not.

getting elevated in the algorithm and. that is because they want to keep people. on Twitter really yeah and we always. speculated this because you can just. tell you post in the reach of of posts. with links is is way down and so we have. historically have obviously used that I. mean. the problem is that for the way that big. Tech emerged there was nothing else. there was nothing to throttle them right. so now they can just throttle. competition by not allowing links to. outside sites to be.

um elevated they have I'm not saying. they don't have the right to do it but I. think that it's just it's just not. helpful for the open web I think that. people need to be able to post links and. not get punished for it. yeah for sure I didn't know that that. was even a thing yep that's one of the. things we learned you know obviously. they're they're favoring native video. native content they're favoring Twitter. blue which is again. some of it's some of it makes sense but. you know don't don't piss off the. journalists no it doesn't make sense.

it's not smart but the link thing is. really weird so I could understand. encouraging people to post links but how. would you do that and then I I don't I. mean not encouraging people to post. links but posting it native I can. understand that that you'd want like. just put the whole article on Twitter or. just put this on Twitter yeah and it is. a better experience typically to use the. native functions of the app it's. smoother it looks better but it's so. easy to just uh you know like if I find.

something interesting on YouTube uh. oftentimes I would just say oh that's a. fascinating video let me just post that. real quick and then the problem with. that sometimes is it posts it with the. click bait headline you know and then. people think it's yours that you're. saying that you know Libs get owned you. know like that kind of [ __ ] yeah one. word two two of the words in caps yeah. so now I'm like ah [ __ ] well maybe I. should like post it but put my own thing. on it instead of right but like you.

don't want to have if you want to share. a video from YouTube well you don't want. to have to download the video and then. upload it like first of all you can't do. that you're not supposed to do that. right so the only way to do that is to. screen capture it yeah or get an app. that the Ripper downloads yeah. yeah so that all the sites do that I. mean we we when we were first starting. we because we have like over a million. followers on our Facebook pages and we. would drive crazy traffic back in the. day just posting viral videos and cool.

articles and you know we had journalists. on and we would post their stuff and we. would so much traffic like you know. millions and millions of of users a. month hitting the site and then Facebook. was just like all right and then boom. and you know but we always knew that we. didn't want to be you know it was a nice. to have thing right so we the reason we. do what we do is because we didn't want. to be relying on them. but it just goes to show how much power. they have I mean they can literally wipe. out jobs and people's livelihoods and.

companies just overnight yeah that's. what happens yeah you know if you're not. favored and you don't play the algorithm. game it's just me it's so sickening and. like worrying about the algorithm it's. like people are just worship this thing. and you kind of have to for survival. because you're trying to succeed but. then you know what are you really. spending your time doing it's an. interesting uh discussion in the. stand-up comedy community because a lot. of comics are trying to game the.

algorithm and you hear these discussions. like I was talking to a friend of mine. that was telling me about these Comics. at the cellar that we're having this. conversation where they were trying to. figure out like this is what you do to. get the algorithm this is what you do to. go viral this is what you do and this. comic who's like an established Comics. like this is [ __ ] gross I don't want. to have any part of this like why just. just make the best [ __ ] you can make. like don't do this and so then you see. people that become sort of captured by.

this idea like you see there's some guys. that do it where it's like it's an art. form like Mr Beast he's figured out how. to do it in a way that's like really. kind of fascinating because he really. knows what words to use what images to. use like and that there's a there's an. actual science to it oh yeah he is a. weird and interesting guy like watching. his interview with Lex the way that his. brain works it's like everything is. being processed through how does this.

play to the algorithm yeah and it was it. it's slightly unnerved me a little bit I. think that you know I he just seemed. like. I I got this sense he and he seems like. a great guy and like super smart and you. know obviously but. it seems like he felt like oh I don't. even necessarily know if this is worth. my time to even be doing this interview. right now because I don't know how many. views it's gonna get and I don't know. like how it's gonna play to the out.

because his time is so he knows how much. he can make every second of the day. depending on a video and like so if he's. gonna go do an interview with another. smaller YouTuber like that's impacting. his. his rap right and. I just I think that's dangerous to to. let that control the content that you. create it's backwards like you're like. the comic was saying it's like you do. the thing that you do as as best as you.

can possibly do it don't make the. algorithm like I guess you could if the. algorithm is your thing if that's what. you want to be the passion of your like. I guess maybe some people do love it but. yeah it seems a little bit inverted it's. a little bit inverted but that's also. I mean he does so much good and it's so. interesting to watch him do the thing I. mean I I get it because like his content. is fantastic so what he's trying to do. is maximize the reach of his content and.

so it's just just clever oh yeah the the. blind carrying the blind people I mean. that was that we need more of that. what's Wild is he got hate for that. right but what was the hate specifically. who gives a [ __ ] but it's just funny. because you cannot do anything that. won't piss someone off because people. are engaged in recreational outrage and. that's what they're doing and they're. trying to figure out an angle oh this. rich guy is doing this thing and really.

shouldn't even be rich no one should be. rich. oh you're just trying to do this to make. yourself look good there's all these. angles that people will take on things. which is their prerogative and in a. world of free speech the the beauty of. what you know is the nature of the first. amendment is that you should be able to. express yourself and so I fully support. those [ __ ] to rag on him how many blind. people have you cared I mean I mean.

they're allowed to have their. perspective on it and yeah I mean. obviously that's the take like you're. not doing anything so shut the [ __ ] up. but people who aren't doing anything are. also allowed to chime in on stuff yeah. and they can look Petty and they can. look foolish or they can have really. good points you know and that makes you. but that's the beauty of what we have. today there's so much dumb [ __ ] involved. in social media and there's so much. bickering and hate and there's so many. people that are addicted to it it's. elevated their anxiety level and they're.

all on medication now because they're. [ __ ] tweeting 12 hours a day there's. a lot of that going on but if you can. figure out how to manage yourself and. manage it now we have access to. information at an unprecedented level. where like something like the restrict. act gets picked apart by brilliant. people on Twitter on Facebook on. Instagram on everything and that's so. valuable so we have to figure out a way.

to preserve that and it's it's to have. this kind of thing today. it has never existed in human history. never not one time has there been a time. in human history where a person. could tweet about a thing and it could. be shared by millions of people and all. of a sudden the conversation about this. subject changes so you have a public. narrative that's being pushed out forth. by these propagandists and then someone. comes along and says actually this is.

what's really going on and Twitter will. fact check and then people chime in and. this is a beautiful thing I mean it's. really an amazing thing so with all the. bad that comes with social media and all. the the weird [ __ ] that it's doing to. kids it's just not good but yeah the the. government is now using it for you know. propaganda purposes as well and. everyone's playing the game now the. government's in it yeah I mean the. Twitter files by uh lee Fang.

um exposed how the government was you. know pushing propaganda so it's not only. about taking down but also pushing out. yeah so you know they're in it and. they're in it not just that way I. guarantee you they're in it the same way. Russia's in it and these Eastern Bloc. countries that have troll Farms is the. idea of the United States is not engaged. in something like that seems to me be. pretty ridiculous I'm sure they are oh. yeah they are they are I mean we it it's. it's on record now and when you see like.

someone will post something and then. you'll see someone has a very specific. response and then if you take that. specific response and Google it you'll. see hundreds of verbatim exact responses. from people that look like real people. you go to their site there's a picture. of them smiling there might even be a. picture of them with some [ __ ] AI. generated kids it's really weird when. you you look at someone's feet like I've. I've looked at someone posting something. controversial and then look at someone.

who has what seems to be like well this. is a suspicious take and then I'll go to. their page and it's all suspicious takes. like that is and occasionally the. retweets and the retweets of things that. go along with the narrative that they're. posting but it seems like very. calculated and then you realize like. this this person has 30 followers this. is not even a real person yeah human. detection is is so key now because. there's going to be you know armies of. bots AI Bots fully autonomous are coming. they're mostly here and we just you know.

they're not going away I mean there's. there's going to be and there's gonna be. Mastermind sort of Engineers who have. these armies that they control and. they're it's actually entertaining like. there's gonna. the AI JRE you know that's getting. hundreds of thousands of views I mean. that that's like sure they're blowing up. so like that's a whole thing for that. person and. there's going to be value and there's. going to be negative stuff that comes. from it but you know I just I just love.

being able to watch it play out and just. everyone's at War mainstream media at. war with independent journalists I mean. where do you think it goes have you ever. like tried to extrapolate do you ever. try to like look at it like from where. we're standing now with the the chat GPT. influence the AI influence all this. different stuff all the Deep fakes do. you ever wonder like where how does this. play out. I think that it's. it's similar to what you were saying. before just like the transparency is.

just increasing so so drastic even just. thinking about how transparent. everything is now compared to 20 years. ago and what we're seeing play out real. time and we're seeing. Seymour Hersh. who's a Pulitzer prize-winning. journalist at war with the New York. Times over Nordstrom right now and. that's just happening in front of us. like the the US government is denying. that we did nordstream. Seymour Hersh thinks otherwise and you.

know that is just what does the New York. Times take on oh man if we can if we can. bring this up. um I don't I don't want to uh abuse. Jamie's Powers but um they're they on. Easter. their post of the Nordstrom situation. was so egregious they said. it may be best that the truth is not. revealed about this like it's why I mean. because. they probably think nuclear warfare is.

on the table if I mean it would be a. false flag look at this. suspicions multiply as nordstring. sabotage remains unsolved intelligence. leaks surrounding the sabotage of the. pipelines have provided more questions. than answers it may be in no one's. interest to reveal more. why. why that's wild I mean you literally are. in the business of revealing more. I mean that's what you're supposed to be. doing if if the United States government.

is engaging in something that is. potentially dangerous to the human. civilization because we can start a. [ __ ] nuclear war because this. you if you don't report on that that's. going to allow more of that [ __ ] to take. place. I just I can't believe those words were. printed and they're still there like how. how can that be where we're at I you. know in terms of where it's going like. honestly I I think that we are on the.

precipice of. a whole new paradigm and level of access. to information that is just gonna be. like a a total shift in in humanity I. think we're getting closer and I and I. mean that with regards to classified. information coming out corporate secret. information coming out it's it's. happening I mean it's happened the. Twitter what we're seeing from the. Twitter files which Elon just just did. he became a whistleblower on himself. yeah and I mean the amount of.

information that that gave us and the in. they were denying it for years and. gaslighting everybody. it's so egregious and dark it's so dark. and they don't have any punishment on. the table which is really crazy you know. when you saw vidja like testifying and. she had to kind of admit things that. they've said in the past that were not. true it's really fascinating to watch. that because the ramifications of that.

they're so it's so dangerous it's so. dangerous to limit the truth and deny. the truth and when you're something like. a social media Network that is basically. the Town Square for the world and you're. doing that and you're doing that based. on your ideology and you're doing that. based on input from intelligence. communities. it's it's social engineering yeah that's. what it is it is their guide they want. to guide us in this particular way yeah. and because they they don't think we can.

handle it right which maybe we can't I. don't know I mean if if the truth about. all of the deep corruption. came out to the extent that is real I I. mean it could cause it could cause Wars. it could but but at the same time I I. actually don't think that I think that. ultimately you know the best thing for. you know America is for transparency to. kind of happen and for us to fix it the. problem is the idea is that we're in. competition with China and China does.

not allow that so we will hinder. ourselves and our ability to compete. with them that's the argument and it's. not a good argument right because. this country has a very. robust belief in free speech it's one of. the reasons why you know dissent is. tolerated it's one of the reasons why we. can get away with what we get away with. it's like we have protection in this. country and it's really the only country. that has that and the idea that in order.

to compete with China we have to become. China is [ __ ] gross it's not true I. don't think I don't think it is I think. the the competition that we have because. of free enterprise free speech like the. reason we have the best businesses in. the world is because of that it wouldn't. be allowed to happen in other countries. they just scoop them up and then you. know distort the the vision so which. stifles it's a national security risk to. not be transparent with the American. people you know this all this Banning.

crypto restrict act all of this stuff is. is devastating for Innovation I mean. that that's the that's the edge of of. innovation so right I mean yeah these. these lawmakers don't understand the. technology it's hard to understand it's. hard to understand they don't even care. to understand it they're not even. reading the stuff they're just saying. whatever they think their constituents. want to hear or whatever the public. narrative is or whatever the government. is pushing and they just sort of like.

pylon and and repeat the propaganda. I mean. rather than Banning Bitcoin the US. government should be stockpiling Bitcoin. right now it is a national security risk. to not do that because what if all of. the other countries do that they're all. moving dedolarization is occurring you. know Russia China they're all starting. to trade you know outside of the Petro. dollar yeah and if in in Bitcoin.

adoption is occurring in these other. countries I mean so even as a hedge we. you know our country should be. stockpiling what if all these other. countries and it blows up and it becomes. the global Reserve currency and then the. US is just out of luck because we didn't. participate because we were trying to be. you know too heavy-handed with it yeah. it doesn't mean that like the Bitcoin. Bitcoin and the dollar can can co-exist. and should coexist like it's not it's. not necessarily one or the other but I.

mean. yeah we just we we just need a new wave. of of politicians who who are gonna oh. boy open up is that gonna happen. I doubt it um I have to take a leak. let's come back. so this has been a while Jeremy Corbell. just sent me this he said uh he has the. project manager for the government's. largest UFO program if our government. has in possession down flying saucers. said for the first time being. interviewed on camera about this he.

answered publicly and the answer was yes. what are we back yeah we're back here we. go what does that mean. I just sent it to you Jamie let's watch. it just see what you thought your take. on this because I I'm I know that you're. fascinated by the subject too. in in this is a bizarre subject when it. comes to disclosure. let's hear those. I don't hear anything.

maybe it's nothing you know but what. what do you know about the phenomenon. about UFOs what can you say for sure. maybe it's nothing you know but what do. we know about UFOs and where does this. go as I said what we know is what we. gleaned from all of the data that has. been discussed and you know that the. UFOs are real we well I mean tell me yes. you UFOs are technologically.

sophisticated they have uh performance. characteristics that are you know the. the five observables are are sort of. well documented but they also have a. very profound uh effects on some people. or they have superficial effects on. other people but they do have effects on. people so going forward. um is is to combine both of those is to. study UFO performance and and you know.

the hope is that out of you UFO. performance can come theoretical physics. which will eventually translate into. engineering does our government have. downed UFOs from Unknown Origin that. they've been trying and are trying to. reverse engineer and exploit those. Technologies understand the physics and. understand that technology do we have. that to work with. I can't talk about that but the answer. is yes.

so this is from weaponized uh Jeremy. Corbell and George Knapp's podcast. just that answer alone so who is comb. that was who is he well of course he is. according to Jeremy. he is a program manager for the. government's largest UFO program. which is that Arrow I don't know it. might be. um Jamie could find that out. yeah I mean. and I the type of whistleblower.

protections that are available like I. hope we can expand that so it's not just. for UFO related stuff but also for. surveillance yeah to protect the. snowden's and assangeas of the world. like we need we need that and that's why. I think that this uh office is going to. be successful it's because like you. can't the people who are doing the the. black projects need to have reassurance. that they're not going to be screwed. after coming forward.

and so you know this this type of. legislation is is so key um I had an. exchange with with melon recently and he. actually told me to uh to mention this. so he was saying that Lazar should come. forward through Arrow because no sorry. I'm sorry oh. um so because why not I mean if he was. involved then. he could participate yeah in that. organization and and put it through.

because that's the channel that we have. now. the idea that someone is going to come. out and say we have downed UFOs. but we can't talk about it. like what does that mean do you have. something that was unidentified that is. from some other state some other. government that you found and it's it's. unidentified. or are you saying you have something. from another planet there's two there's. two very different answers right because. the the Chinese balloons included in.

this as well so if that gets downed you. know that's that constitutes crash. materials right like what is it you it's. unidentified what does that mean but are. you saying that you have something that. you re you're back engineering from. another country or you're saying you. have something that is of. some completely Unknown Origin like. outside of this world. well I mean based on the testimony from. you know whether you're talking about. Roswell or particularly the one that.

I've been just loving deep in the rabbit. hole is the Virginia Incident That's in. Brazil yeah I mean that is completely. mind-blowing James Fox did an epic. documentary about it moment of contact. and you know the there are military. whistleblowers in his documentary which. say that the U.S flew in and transported. can't believe I'm about to say this but. bodies and materials like in this. documentary.

there's aliens running around all over. Virginia Brazil and these three these. two sisters and their friends saw it. um the the doctor saw it they did x-rays. on it like they talked to these doctors. and is it x-rays on the bottom they did. x-rays on the bodies and they had to. demolish the whole wing of the hospital. where it occurred because the smell was. so bad that and this is this was. reported independently from the guy who. saw the crash everyone said that it.

smelled like ammonia and sulfur just. like and it couldn't get out of their. system for weeks and so you know there's. there's record of the hospital. you know doing this like this uh. renovation and. I don't know the the speculation was. saying that's like maybe like a skunk or. something like a skunk type smell yeah. well no but that's like a skunk you know. animals have reactions when they're in a. a scary environment and that maybe these.

aliens have a similar reaction to like a. skunk. that's what everyone said that the smell. was so so horrible that they couldn't. get it off their bodies they had to. demolish the whole wing of the of the. hospital and like the weird thing about. this so Virginia is very similar to. Roswell and that like when you go to. Roswell it's like UFOs you know it's a. tourist attraction right so you go to. Virginia there's like huge UFOs. everywhere it's like the culture at this. point because the whole city was.

basically locked down they had like. hundreds of people all over the city. that saw military checkpoints or know. somebody who was directly involved and. like you know I approached obviously. agnostic on. what is happening but it's it's like you. don't have hundreds of people. saying exactly the same thing just out. of nowhere I mean it yeah it could be. some sort of government but it was like.

the mayor of our did you see moment of. contact no oh dude it's so wild it's so. good it's so well done he's such a great. filmmaker is there any evidence. um yeah there's there's lots of evidence. like. so. all of the I mean they're they're. hospital records there are. um. there you mean like in terms of physical. well James says that there is and that.

he's you know on top of it to try to. find it but I mean. evidence is a spectrum so you know. physical evidence. you know people died. um so this guy. um Cherise so so they confronted this. guy Eric Lopes who with this other this. guy charisi Carl I think Carlos ruizi. they basically were police who like. captured apparently allegedly one of.

these things and this this they talked. to this guy's sister. who died like a week after grabbing this. thing and you know she has the death. certificate and like the cause of death. was unknown he had this like super weird. infection. and so you know I would consider a death. certificate you know based and you know. he was who he was a he was a state. worker and he died for super bizarre.

reasons so he touched he grabbed it and. then apparently there was like he got a. cut or something infection and he died. they they confront the other guy who's. driving the car Eric Lopez and he. threatened to kill them when they go on. his property. it's so crazy. um but but it's more so like it seeps. into the when something seeps into the. culture that deeply like it did in. Roswell and you know like it's in Brazil. I just I tend to feel like there there's.

something there. because of just how overwhelming you. know so many people saw the craft so. many people. we're involved it's just it it it's. either the most ridiculous hoax of all. time which why would you even like who. who would do that and why and so it's. like when you're when you talk about. Occam's razor you know the simplest is. the most likely answer. I I feel like Occam's razor in both.

cases of Roswell and Virginia are. that something actually did happen I. mean yeah Roswell has some weird stories. about bodies you know bodies and little. caskets and stuff like that but it's. just like there's so much attention to. these things and there's so much hype. that I always wonder like how much of. this is just people feeding off of The. Narrative and the stories and the fact. that this is like an exciting thing to. talk about and how much of it is that.

they want it to be real. I don't think any of these people want. it to be real I mean half of the. witnesses will only. um go on video with you know voice. modulation and isn't that from possibly. because of ridicule yeah but but why but. they they don't even yeah because they. don't want to but they don't want to do. it they're just not interested in coming. forward so I feel like if that was I. mean that certainly is the reason for a.

lot of people in the UFO world that they. can just milk it and they get speaking. gigs and they were contacted and right. you know it's a life there's a lot of. that obviously and that's something that. whenever there's other club. speculative phenomenon like that it just. seems like you're always going to get a. bunch of [ __ ] artists but you know. the types of specific evidence that I'm. interested in seeing more of is like. okay so if the military witness claims.

that you know U.S Air Force came and. transported something like there are. probably records somewhere of these. flights so like that's but that's the. type of thing that's just inaccessible. to us yeah so but. you know it probably exists somewhere. and you just need a mechanism to dig. that up. and so hopefully hopefully Arrow can get. down to it but it's this guy Sean. Sean Kirkpatrick I want to say is is. running it but you know uh Kirsten.

gillibrand uh was grilling the. uh some military officials over the lack. of funding they had requested that. it gets far more funding it's only it's. getting like 11 million a year right now. which I think for government Ops is you. know that's some it's somewhat modest. for the magnitude of of what this really. needs to be. but you know yeah there's clips of you. know people in Congress want this what. do you think is going on.

I think it's happening. I do I. you know I also want it to be happening. and I that's my I recognize that urge in. myself but I mean I've been. I'm I'm I have no interest in falling. for [ __ ] I I I I don't I mean I'm. looking for holes I want holes I don't. want to you know be. yeah that would just be embarrassed it's.

just there's so many different cases. and there's some and it's becoming. legitimized now I mean they change the. whole word to UAP because of the stigma. so we're seeing official acknowledgment. and. progress like government is. investigating this now they're compiling. the information we have the best you. know who you've had on the best military. Witnesses Air Force pilots like these. guys are not [ __ ] around. they're just not do youth I mean I'm.

certainly you don't think that Ryan. graves are. Commander fraver are are full of it no I. don't think they are Ryan Graves doesn't. have like a physical interaction with. them he basically what he said was they. upgraded their equipment and then. immediately they started seeing things. that are defying what they understand to. be the laws of physics and what a. currently known uh methods of propulsion. and the way these things are able to. operate and stay stationary in 120 mile.

an hour winds and things along those. lines he he was pretty convinced that. this is something outside of our realm. of understanding. and then there's the commander fraver. instance which is very bizarre because. multiple Witnesses video evidence. um the the equipment that they use to. detect it all of it rings true and so. it's all it all works correctly and that. this thing was able to go from 50 000.

plus feet above sea level to 50 feet in. less than a second. they don't know what the [ __ ] it is they. don't know why it behaved the way it. behaved the fact that it was blocking. their radar systems the fact that this. thing they knew where they were going to. go yeah I went to their cat point which. is uh they they're a predetermined. location where they were supposed to. meet up later went immediately to that. the fact that this thing operates with. no visual visible method of propulsion. and that it moves at these insane speeds.

that would turn human beings into jelly. if they were inside of it it was a it. was a biological entity inside of that. so which makes you think like okay are. these drones are these like super. sophisticated drones it's some Black Ops. projects been working on for a long time. melon thinks that it's a post biological. probe and that the gray you know the. traditional kind of gray because that's. what they were describes almost exactly. in Virginia. um the drawings of it the Renditions of.

of what the wind saw looks just like the. gray except it was brown with red eyes. um which is a little bit strange but. um you also have to think like why would. we assume that there's only one version. of this thing if we you know look at the. cosmos. that this gray alien with the black eyes. is the only one that exists like. wouldn't there be some sort of parallel. Evolution and. I mean my take on where human beings are. headed. seems that we're headed into some sort.

of an integration with technology it's. already integrated into our lives to the. point where it's inescapable. and then what if it becomes physically. integrated and what if when we're. looking at declining in. um. uh sperm counts the the the human beings. are becoming more feeble and weaker and. there's all this weirdness with gender. like the in in our culture and as. technology advances this obsession with.

gender and the lack of gender and gender. being a social construct and the. decrease in testosterone and penis sizes. and actually I've done this in penis. sizes are growing up isn't it kind of. weird that the transhuman you kind of. have the transhuman movement but then. also the transgender yeah it's like both. Tran it's like both sort of this. Divergence well one of my concern is. that it's just like a decaying of. biological relevancy and that we're.

eventually going to succumb to this. thing and we're going to become a part. of it and that's what we're seeing when. we see these essentially genderless. muscleless creatures with enormous heads. that that becomes what all prime mates. eventually evolve to and that we're. thinking of Technology like it's not. life and that maybe it is life and maybe. it's just a different kind of life and. we're creating this kind of life and we. will eventually be that kind of Life.

yeah I think that within the transhuman. path there's multiple branches so it's. not as if it's all sort of. this degradation. um though I I typically like I'm in no. rush to integrate you know neural link. but. if I had Alzheimer's and I was faced. with that see that's everyone can be a. skeptic and say I would never put that. in my body until the moment that you.

know some incurable disease is suddenly. fixed by it yeah well yeah paralysis so. that's going to be a big one people that. can't use their limbs and also now they. can and then the thing is it's gonna if. if it does do what Elon thinks it's. going to be able to do which is. radically Alter your access to. information and change your ability to. process information and it's going to. give the people that adopted a. significant Advantage not just a. significant Advantage but it almost.

insurmountable Advantage without it and. then everyone's going to do it just like. how everyone wears clothes someone. invented clothes because it's way better. you can survive outside you know with. the [ __ ] down parka on and and wool. undergarments and you could you could. live in a way that you could never live. without it so it's much more sustainable. to use clothes so everybody eventually. put on clothes I mean clothes are a form. of Technology we've we were all wearing.

them you can't go anywhere without. seeing people in clothes and that. sort of you like it is an invention and. we don't think of it that way we just. think of it as clothes but it's a method. that we have devised in order to walk on. Sharp surfaces and and in inclement. weather and we protect ourselves. physically and biologically from that if. that is just one step in the human's. invention that sort of removes us from.

the biological limitations that we. currently have that's going to keep. going and it's going to keep going and. the end point seems to be integration. yeah close as technology like that's so. important for people to recognize. because you just you we we don't. consider them the same right for the. most part and like so do you know the. first use of the word computer. guess.

um what year what year. I'm gonna go crazy let's say 1500. pretty good 16 13. and it was to refer. to a human who conducts computations. so we called computer a human was the. first use of a word computer somebody. who's like just doing math and then it. just. escaped from there. yeah so we are.

and you know there's going to be a fork. in the road where see like I just would. neurolink needs to be open source I. don't know how like putting something in. my brain that can just like switch me. off that I can at least unleash some. computer scientists on to audit it make. sure like okay. is this gonna. do anything to me I mean. that that's the thought process that I. go through when I ask like would I. integrate.

um I would probably only do it if I had. to but I I mean do you think there's. going to come a time when you have to. or someone of your generation will have. to or uh better not be have to well I. don't I want to say like even physically. forced but in order to compete and to. exist like phones. you don't have to have a phone you don't. have to have a phone you could be that. dude who lives in the woods and you know. chops down trees but do you think that. that. is going to be the same decision I I.

feel like a lot more people are going to. resist biological integration. even though phones you know they're on. our bodies they are biological. extensions sort of but you know they're. actually having biological impact you. know your foot your leg vibrates like. there's definitely energy exchange but I. I don't know I mean I I don't envision. myself just like buckling to some. cultural Trend I don't think it's. necessarily just a cultural trend.

I mean you really if you want to compete. in the workforce and you don't have a. smartphone. you're at a significant disadvantage. but you don't have to. physically integrate to get access to. that ah yeah you probably do to a. certain degree if you're going to be. able to do the stuff that neurlings. potentially capable of but like. yeah I mean but are you saying that you. would because of that competition I'm. not saying that I would I'm saying that.

everybody would I think if it gets to a. certain point look it took a while. before cell phones became basically. Universal and across all cultures I mean. sure you can go to some hunter-gatherer. tribes and they don't have cell phones. but. you don't want to live like that but. it's so much easier to make the decision. to get a cell phone than get an. operation yeah but what if it becomes a. thing that becomes very easy to acquire. but the other thing is it's also there's. there's a haves and have-not aspect to.

it because the people that are early. adopters if it is effective and it does. work you will have a massive advantage. over everyone else if it really does. change the way your mind is able to. access information and the way your mind. is able to process things and it you. know imagine. having the computational power and the. access to information the chat GPT has. but instantaneously in your mind. that seems to me where it's all headed.

and it just doesn't seem like it's going. to stop it seems like everything keeps. moving in this general direction of. integration agreed yeah I don't think. it's stoppable at all and it's more so. how do we guide it so that it isn't just. total dystopia because there are. different versions of this technology. and similar to this whole issue with. like. you know Freedom based social media. versus you know big Tech like it's the. same.

dichotomy you know there will be. super Advanced. um transhuman technology that where the. creators of it actually want to be as. ethical as possible there's already. those AI camps that exist and so if the. AI is getting integrated with the. hardware that's coming in then you know. we just need to be cognizant of of that. distinction because there's no we don't. want to stop it I mean it's that it's. it's amazing what's happened like there. was a instance with Chachi PT where a.

dog this guy his dog was dying and he. was like what what am I going to do the. doctor's telling me there's nothing we. can do he takes the blood test from the. doctor he's like give me the blood. results. feeds the specific results into chat GPT. and asks it some questions about like. what could possibly be going wrong here. you know give me some give me something. to work with it it gives him a couple of. options he then takes that back to the. doctor. and they found it and the dog's fine the.

dog was gonna die the dog was a it was. anemic so what was wrong. I don't remember all of all of the. specifics but it was it was a and he was. in the dog was anemic and there was some. something but he he successfully used it. to help the doctor. diagnose and and it actually fixed the. dog so you know at this point I mean. specifically with uh Medical. applications. so here it is started dogging the proper.

treatment she's made almost a full. recovery now note that both of these. diseases are very common. uh babe seosis is the number one. tick-borne disease I was a tick-borne. disease and imha is common complication. of it especially for this breed so that. looks like an Australian Shepherd I. think I think I'm not sure. um says I don't know why the first vet. couldn't make the correct diagnosis. either incompetence or poor management.

GPT 3.5 couldn't place the proper. diagnosis but gpt4 was smart enough to. do it I can't imagine what medical. Diagnostics will look like. 20 years from now wow. will you say that pull that a little bit. a little higher up there the most. impressive part was how well it read. interpreted the blood test results it. simply transcribed the CBC test values. from a piece of paper and it gave. step-by-step explanation and. interpretation along with the reference.

ranges which I confirmed all correct wow. that's pretty wild. so even as a supplemental tool for. doctors to be referring to when they're. coming up with their own yeah you know. it's a helper well the question is like. were you are you going to need doctors. because it seems like you're going to. need surgeons but are you going to need. General Practitioners that can. disseminate information based on test. results when they're not even that good.

at it and they they have like 15 people. coming through their office and. everybody's got five minutes and. you know and then they have student. loans to pay and you know eyeballs they. have human eyeballs and also also all. they have is their what they've absorbed. in terms of the amount of research and. information they have and that varies. widely between the doctors because some. doctors are more studied and some aren't. and some are Specialists and some aren't. and some have you know done an.

incredible amount of work on certain. subjects and some of them are completely. ignorant of it you ever tried to talk to. a general practitioner about vitamins. they don't they oh you don't need. vitamins just need a well-balanced diet. and you look at this fat guy is telling. you that's like the [ __ ] do you know you. don't you don't I mean you're literally. talking to a person that hasn't had an. education in nutrition and they're. they're telling people I've had. conversations with doctors like that and. I'm like well that's pretty ridiculous. what you're saying is we're patently. untrue. yeah I mean it's gonna potentially.

become a liability for to go with the. human because you know how if you're if. you're stuck if you're studying an MRI. or something just with your human. eyeballs you know AI can find the most. minute. little trace of something that you could. so easily Miss yeah and so that's just I. mean that's going to be a revolution for. the for uh lifespan is chat gbt4 now. available to anyone you have to pay you.

have to pay but you can pay and get. access to 20 bucks a month good for. anyone yep oh wow they did remove some. abilities features upgrades recently it. got too busy oh I see I don't know what. that means and how they can do that or. processing turning it on and off how. many people are using it you do have I. mean there's occasional just like total. garbage and it's so confidently. spit out which you just really it's why. it's not ready for for prime time but.

what kind. it will like I don't know I I asked it. about me just to see what it would come. up with and it just came up with this. like right wing piece of [ __ ]. problematic anti-American I mean. communist it said that I was like. founder of it it said a lot of 90. correct but then it said that I was with. this other company that I just never. even heard of is that because it's. getting the information from websites. that are incorrectly saying these things. we don't know so the system could be. gamed in that way you could put up some.

sort of like factchecker dot org. [ __ ] website when you put out a. bunch of propaganda and it sucks that. information off the web and uses it at. least to flavor an answer. yeah that's a great point to be honest I. wouldn't be surprised if that becomes. much more of a problem and that's why we. need to know what are the data sets that. these tools are scooping from it's like. what what. are so you're scanning the whole web for. all the world's data and images and and.

use of language but like. you're pulling in from you know. misinformation.com like what right why. are you using that and we don't know. what they're using right so well that's. probably going to be better with chat. gbt 4.5. right so what you're dealing with is. like a constant Improvement upon this. resource that has in a relatively short. period of time revolutionized the way. people get access to answers.

so the word that is an interesting word. which is going to become more. talked about is alignment have you heard. this no so alignment is the phrase used. in in AI research to kind of understand. how aligned this technology is with. Humanity so. um. you know and it's going to be abused. for the same you know the same way that. we see Chad gbt becoming biased already. I mean you can ask it to make a joke.

about I took the screenshot off of chat. GPT ad for. safer and more alarm. yeah it's all about alignment announcing. chat gbd4 a large multimodal model with. our best ever results on capabilities. and alignment. yeah what is it so it sounds very. similar to like you know creating I I. think there there's validity to it we we.

need to be concerned about alignment we. need to be concerned you know how is. this technology. um you know helping or or hurting. Humanity however the problem is that. different people have very different. perceptions of what is good and what is. bad for Humanity so you know the people. at open AI are telling it not to make a. joke about Biden but make a joke about. Trump. um. yeah they're already kind of creating. these rule sets of like what is. acceptable and what's not acceptable you.

know Elon comes out you know we need. truth GPT the fully uncensored version. which is going to come out and then. that's going to be chaos because you. know you'll be able to how do I um you. know create this virus and how do you. want to make a bomb yeah yeah granted. you can already do that and. searching so you know ultimately. models are going to become more. personalized you would hope that you. would have the ability to control that. yourself you know how how censored of a. version do I want do I do I want the.

the safer version but you know I I and. then uh The Tech max tag Mark and uh his. his Institute and Elon signed it came. out with this whole thing to pause. AI do you see that yes which is. surprising but also you know they're. they're concerned rightfully we don't. know because it's becoming more. autonomous and it's it's potentially. um.

yeah so here's something that Jamie just. pulled up Elon Musk reportedly purchases. thousands of gpus for generative AI. project at Twitter Reports say it's a. commitment to AI despite signing. cautionary AI pause letter. wow. I don't know exactly what that means. like Yeah so basically they're pursuing. their own because this so so there's. some drama involved with Elon and open. AI because he he put 100 million into. the original.

and then so they were a non-profit in in. their uh First Years. and then they realize okay we need more. money this is we need super computers so. you know this is not going to be a cheap. Endeavor we need you know billions of. dollars and so they now they have a uh. sort of hybrid model where there's a. for-profit entity and a non-profit and. they sort of help each other and I think. there was a semaphore article on elon's. uh trying to take over open AI which I.

I'm not going to say that it's like the. the full truth of it I think we don't. know but so Altman and Elon were working. together early on and then Elon I think. tried to like take not not I don't even. know if it was a hostile takeover but. try wanted to lead the effort and it. didn't work people didn't want it to. happen and so. you know they went off and did their. thing and then Elon left and I think. that you know that must be frustrating. to him he put a hundred million in and.

they to to do open AI which you would. assume means it's going to be open. source and ethical yeah and then they. keep going going they become the biggest. app in the world and you know the. original investors are kind of like. okay. right. um you know that's not cool and so you. know I'm Elon should Twitter should. start their own ad they have the some of. the best training data in the world it's. just the the most accurate real-time. language use in humanity so they're.

probably going to come out with. something cool and then you've got a. bunch of other photos there's a um open. alternative chat GPT called colossal. which is decent but they they're still. reliant on some small parts of. of chat GPT but yeah I mean. it's you know with with what we're. seeing there's there's more than meets. there's a lot of business drama. happening behind the scenes you know. with the subset stuff with the open AI. stuff and yeah you know I think that.

I I just don't buy into the whole. secrecy is going to save us mentality. and I don't I don't see open AI like. saying okay at this point we now believe. this to be safe enough to release I just. think that they're gonna keep hoarding. and when when really they should give us. a path to when it's if we're going to be. relying on them they're getting so. powerful so fast yeah they need to give. us a path to when it's going to be. transparent and also why are you doing. all this bias and I I think there should.

be rev share baked in for Humanity. because like why not have rather than. have the government fund Ubi why not. have the you know billion dollar tech. companies that are taking everybody's. data give everybody a little a little. rev share on it if they're using your. data and it's actually being processed. and used on a regular basis give. everybody a little bit you can still be. rich you can still you know become a. huge company i i i i in my eyes your.

mindset yeah but to be honest it's you. it's not it's not just me like that is. what is going to be smart for them like. Elon even uh is doing monetization on. Twitter they're working on it they're. trying to do encrypted messages. apparently. you know ultimately what's best for the. the community is I think better for the. corporation long term unless they want. to fight this war which they're going to. and maybe they do but fight this war.

this war for you know to be the top AI. yeah I'm sure that's what they're doing. yeah I mean it kind of makes sense but. it's a very good point like where are. you getting the data that's allowing you. to do this it's it's basically. everyone's data it's everyone's data. yeah it's just the internet yeah and who. owns the internet no one Because The. Internet Is An Open Source decentralized. protocol but it seems to me like these. this is the first Rumblings of cyborgs. this is the the first steps that is.

going to force our integration because. if this does become something you can. access instantaneously in your mind with. some thing that you put on your head or. something you put in your head. I just I don't see people not taking. that. what does that look like in your in your. visual system so you so you integrate. neural link and it's it's in there and. because we kind of have like. you know our internal. I mine's eye I don't know what it is.

what what we whatever it is what we see. when we dream yeah something our eyes. aren't open but we're seeing right so. what but what would that even feel like. to ha to search the internet through. your brain like are you seeing some like. do you feel it I think there's probably. gonna be multiple versions of it it's. going to get better and better which is. why you a don't want to be in an early. early adopter but maybe you do because. that's those are the people that are. going to be able to get access to the.

second version of this and the third and. it's going to be become progressively. more and more powerful I really wonder. like when we're talking about aliens. we're talking about these creatures. maybe that's a natural course of. progression for intelligent life that. intelligent life eventually realizes. there's limits to biological evolution. but technology allows you to jump start. and pass bypass all those limitations. radically quickly where the the versions.

that are created by human beings once AI. is able to take over and make better. versions of it it's going to make a. better version of itself it's going to. continue to evolve to the point where. I mean you you really become something. that's completely different than a human. being. yeah and it's a question of you know do. I want to live. you know that that's the question that. we're going to get faced with like do. you want to keep living or do you want. to die and you gotta pick if you're.

going to integrate or not if you want to. live because our our bodies just can't. handle it do you want to be in a Norman. Rockwell painting or do you want to be. in a Stanley Kubrick movie. yeah how do you want to live and like. for what you were saying about you know. what. what will where is the disclosure. process taking us like. I think that. there will there is real possibility for. social unrest because and and the the.

global economy. this is most likely the reason that. they're taking their time letting. information out because religion. the global energy economy I mean if. these things are real. and they're powered by some you know. propulsion system with a new form of. energy that is you know near Limitless. or whatever it is then what does that do. for the economy suddenly oil all the top. largest energy companies in the world. are just irrelevant right.

um. and then the religion the religious. stuff is like a whole other level of the. equation but like people. people will have concern and they should. and they should because we might not be. people very much longer. but there's a cool book uh called A.D. after disclosure where which kind of. does a thought experiment about what. would happen so it's a fiction book. about what happens if you know the. government comes out and has an official.

press conference and. tells us what's going on and it's uh. it's cool it's by a really smart uh. researcher how does it play out. um. I didn't read it. but I love Richard Dolan who wrote it. and I've watched like uh hundreds of. hours of his of his podcast he's he's a. great researcher I need to read it I'm. uh maybe I'll listen to it yeah. if you had to speculate as to like.

imagine if there is some large worldwide. wholesale disclosure of information like. if Invasion and is is imminent or some. sort of. um undeniable event takes place. how do you think that plays out. the weird thing is is that if. Virginia happened. if you're living there and you're seeing. that like this is it Robert that's a. crash. right what if it's a landing.

right like on the White House lawn yeah. yeah I mean. they have buzzed the White House yeah in. the 50s yeah yeah and so but yeah. there's something going on where they're. um you know in some senses being bold. but they're not being bold enough. that it for some reason is able to take. hold in just the all of human society. says okay. we can't not talk about this anymore. because what will happen now is there'll.

be all these CR you know New York Times. article Pentagon leaks and it's like. whoa can we like stop and talk about. that for five minutes before we just go. back to life right and we just keep. going back to life and forgetting about. that well don't you think there's like. an information Overlord over rule um. overwhelming aspect to this that it's. just overload of data and you you just. constantly inundated by new stories and. new things and there's so much to talk.

about and think about that it's very. difficult for one thing to stick unless. it's like a nonsense thing that people. get excited about you know like. like this Bud Light nonsense like you. know Dylan Mulvaney's and the the. spokesperson for Bud Light now people. are shooting Bud Light and I'm you know. my take on it has been like yeah I think. that person's a silly person and a. tension [ __ ] and a a [ __ ] weird. person to be a cultural light lightning. rod they're obviously just a narcissist. but.

why aren't you freaking out about. all these other things that are. happening why why are you not freaking. out about the restrict act why are you. not freaking out about what's happening. with chat GPT why why is everybody. freaking out about this dumb thing with. Bud Light yeah there I mean there has to. be room for paying attention to just. silly crazy drama and we're always gonna. that it's it's good to a degree why is. that primary I don't know if do you. think it's primary yeah. yeah I do I think there's way more.

people concerned with Bud Light than. they are with uh the restrict act you. have to like force that into people's. minds I think there's a certain a. certain percentage of our population. where their minds just gloss over. like when you start talking about uh. open source and you start to exactly. it's a lot of people just like. like they don't have the whatever it is. the software to handle that. yeah. I don't know I I I think it's it's. coming and we just need to we need to.

stay on it I mean we. what else matters like I don't want to. die without. knowing because you think like if that. information exists right and we're. living in a world right now where there. are. people in you know DC or you know elite. figures in the government who do it's. basically multiple civilizations. coexisting there's people with accent. because when you digest certain new.

breakthrough information which you know. Humanity has done repeatedly that I. think that changes who we are it changes. how we interface with the world it. changes all of the decisions that that. we make and so if this is we know that. we're living in this almost like. information caste system where there are. people with access and people without. right and so that does exist whether. that includes you know actual uh aliens.

I don't know but it it exists for all. kinds of issues that absolutely matter. to our existence could be dealing with. energy technology could be dealing with. um corruption you know major. geopolitical events that would totally. change the trajectory trajectory of the. world so I'm just like not comfortable. not knowing and having these people that.

I don't know who they are and why do. they get to know right it's not cool. no it's not but it's kind of that's. always been the story that that that has. taken place like that was the I'm sure. aware of. um The Jackie Gleason story. right the Jackie Gleason was friends. with Nixon been drinking and Nixon says. hey you want to see some [ __ ] crazy. [ __ ] and he takes him to uh whatever Air. Force Base where they have a downed UFO.

and uh that he has access to to see this. and he sees alien bodies that this is. something that the government has always. had and they've had this thing and. Gleason. you know there's speculation as to. whether or not he really did have that. conversation with Nixon but there's no. speculation to the fact that he built a. [ __ ] house that looked like a UFO. after that happened and that houses. you'd look at it looks like a flying. saucer house. yeah and we just.

don't I mean the laws that we need are. our laws for more information what do. you think would happen if human beings. absolutely knew that we do have UFOs. from another world that we're back. engineering we're trying to figure it. out that we have been contact with alien. civilizations we are being monitored you. know the UFO folklore is of course that. once we drop the bombs that all of a. sudden they start showing up which. totally makes sense like okay there's a.

detection that these people uh these. these beings on this planet they've. entered into this new phase of. understanding of technology and they can. harness the atom and they use it to do. of course they use it as a bomb. now they're using it as nuclear power. they're using it in all these different. ways and we have to make sure that they. safely transition to the next stage of. evolution without complete total. Destruction which would send them back. to at the very least the Stone Age and.

then you're dealing with a you know tens. of thousands of years of you know. Reinventing everything and getting back. to the state where they were at now and. give them another shot at doing it again. so maybe that's why they showed up and. maybe that's why they're monitoring us. and that's why they're here that's a. bridge. they're just here to make sure we don't. [ __ ] everything up so that this is a. very delicate and precarious process. that exists with all intelligent life.

forms in all throughout the Universe and. that we're at a stage just like um you. know there's there's speculation and. there's people openly discussing that. some primates lower primates have. entered into the Stone Age they're using. tools they're using things and this is. very similar to what they think happen. to human beings and that over the course. of millions of years they'll eventually. become like us. than that this is just a natural process.

that exists where intelligent life forms. learn things slowly at first and then. eventually incredibly rapidly which is. what we're seeing now with AI. it's totally logical I I think that. totally logical and in the way that we. interface with species below us is you. know some sometimes we're fascinated by. them and want to learn about them but. there are other times we're like a. squirrel okay right and so it's kind of. both of those things like you know. people polarize the the conversation. they say oh they'd never be interested.

in us that's stupid of course they. wouldn't yeah just like we are yeah in. everything of course and but at the same. time like they probably also have. other cooler things to pay attention to. maybe there's other way cooler species. than us to pay attention to or I'm sure. there are but but this is the transition. so if if I was an alien life form it's. Superior intelligence from some other. Galaxy or some other part of the. Universe I would 100 be concentrating on.

integrating this new species into the. galactic network if there is one you. know and then you know helping them get. to this next stage because maybe. I mean maybe life is fairly rare maybe. intelligent life is much more rare and. maybe this thing that we're we're seeing. is like these rare nuggets of some very. precious thing that exists in the. universe and so they they seek it out.

and they recognize that this is the. thing that brings them to the ultimate. next stage. yeah it's rare but also potentially. fundamental and right so so basically. Consciousness as the core right of all. things yeah all matter you know that. that guy you had on uh I actually um. connected with at one point uh Philip. goth he's really interesting he he's a. pan psychist yes and those you know.

actually Annika Harris Sam Harris's wife. wrote a cool book which I also haven't. read but I know about it. um. uh it's uh it's called conscious and. it's all about pants psychism which is. cool coming from her because she. obviously is like rigorous you know if. you're going to be married to Sam Harris. you probably need to not be full of woo. um and so she kind of explored. um and I listened to some podcasts with. her explaining it and so this is a real. thing that's that's getting taken.

seriously science it's not necessarily. like in um physically provable but like. it's you can't actually deny AI that. it's a possibility that Consciousness is. sort of the engine of everything so you. know philosophically when you're arguing. against like materialism versus. fundamental Consciousness like the. materialists are they kind of. arbitrarily try to point to when. Consciousness emerges it's like.

it but how can you pick that point like. because if all matter is evolving and. like eventually becoming complex enough. to you know have conscious properties. but still it show me the exact time when. you consider something conscious because. there's there's plants there's all kinds. of you know microbes like right you just. keep going back is it when it's. reactionary to its environment and and. trying to preserve its own life or is it.

when it's interactive and conscious to. the point where it's communicating is. that when we decide that it's conscious. is it when it's able to manipulate its. environment like we are I mean do we we. obviously prioritize our Consciousness. above orcas because we we what we're. doing orcas is [ __ ] horrific and. accepted in some strange way that you. know you can go to Sea World and watch. something that might be as smart as us. do tricks for fish.

you know like why are we willing to do. that. that's clearly a conscious thing that. has a language and yet we're like yeah. yeah stay in the pool [ __ ] you know. it's it's weird what we do and what we. prioritize as Consciousness we we seem. to have like a caste system of our own. where we decide that we only favor. things that are able to manipulate their. environment. yeah I mean I you but that's Way Beyond. I think you know Orca is like that's so.

maybe maybe to other people they don't. consider orcas conscious but I feel like. that's like a certain type of person. that really hasn't looked into this yeah. at all they're clearly conscious and. then I mean but going back to microbe I. mean I I would say that a micro was like. obviously conscious I mean like but. that's just where I'm at in the. conversation maybe viruses are conscious. as well. right I mean there's obviously evolution. in viruses it's all just it's a very. rapid you know look look what we saw in.

terms of variance from covid like the. these vaccine resistant variants that. popped up like almost instantaneously. you know that these viruses recognize. where immunity is and they figure out a. way to move around that immunity and. become more contagious. there's also a div you know the words we. use matter like life. unconscious are a little bit different. you know because something would be. considered alive.

probably earlier than most people would. consider conscious. um so some of the pansekists like to. um. talk about experience you know is is the. matter having any sort of an experience. and sometimes that's a little bit more. digestible for people wasn't that just. an evolved level of Consciousness you. know we have single-celled organisms we. consider them alive yeah but they're not. multicellular organisms.

I mean I I tend to lean towards it being. fundamental just because. I can't. place a spot on the emerging Continuum. like it's just too ran I'm not gonna. pick you're not gonna make me pick right. there's not like a switch that gets hit. or a you know a turkey tester that pops. up boink you know like oh it's ready. right yeah and it's the same thing when. we look at you know a human uh the um. being born and like being in the womb.

like you know people arbitrarily saying. oh this moment stop right how do you. know don't don't we're not going to play. this like number of days game right like. when does the soul enter into the fetus. but that and that's why uh Chris Rock. and uh and Louis also has a great bit. about that where it's just like oh you. know. you're you should be able to kill. you know be like kill it but you're. killing right you know yeah yeah Bill.

Burr has a great bit about that as well. like I support you right but I also. think you're killing a baby and that's. you would think that if that just feels. like a more healthy place to be having. the conversation well it's just very. uncomfortable for people and especially. people that support a woman's right to. choose they don't want to think of it. that way but it's undeniable. you know I had a conversation with. someone online once a long time where. Richard Dawkins was saying that there's. no difference between a a human fetus.

and a pig fetus at a certain I'm like. what are you talking about that's a. ridiculous way to look at it because a. human fetus has the potential to become. a human being that could be your. neighbor it could be your best friend. it's gonna it's gonna turn into a person. if someone doesn't intervene or if it. doesn't die it's going to become a. person Pig fetus is going to become a. pig they're very different things you. could argue that a pig is intelligent. because they are they're calculated they. do things they're smart they're smarter. than dogs you know is your dog conscious.

I think my dog's conscious I have. conversations with them he knows when. it's time to eat you know he knows what. I'm saying when I ask him if he wants to. play he knows he's he's [ __ ]. conscious he's just not at the level. that a human being is but that's also. because he doesn't have the hardware. yeah I mean with the pro like the. pro-life. um pro-choice debate it just feels so. shallow similar to the climate change. debate where it's like obviously human. life is precious and we should preserve.

it as much as is humanly possible and. guess what yes if you choose to have an. abortion yeah it's killing some you're. killing something yeah you know whether. or not people should have the legal. right to do that in certain. circumstances I I'm not someone to. answer that but like it would be so much. more of a healthy conversation if if we. could agree at least on what we're. talking about right which seems that. people are trying to deny that it's life. which is not reality it's in with. climate change it's like. who cares if it's you know global.

warming blah blah blah do you do you. think pollution is good right right if. if pollution if we all agree pollution. is bad right then we're getting the. outcome that we want. Which is less pollution yes but we're. not worrying about is that like based on. you know millions of years like who. knows like right. so it's like I feel like some of these. debates are just arguing about the wrong. things and it's just we need to reset. some of these conversations to just find.

the place where we can agree on one. thing and then make progress from there. because I think that a lot of people who. are who are pro-abortion like like Louie. and Chris Rock who made those bits which. are you know kind of crude bits but. they're at least. honestly acknowledging what's going on. yes yeah but that's the purpose that. humor does serve in those ways is it. makes you laugh at something that is. kind of like you leave there going how's. this kind of [ __ ] good point it was. funny but there's actually there's some.

truth in that and if if it didn't have. truth in it no one would be laughing and. that's the test of it all it's like it. does it resonate with that part of your. mind that recognizes these. inconsistencies and there's a there's. also another problem. with both the pro-life pro-choice and. also the climate argument that they. become embedded in ideologies so they. become these dogmatic things that you. cannot question if you're a part of this. group and you want to be accepted by.

this group this is essentially two. groups there's one group that believes. in guns but also believes that babies. are sacred it's like very strange you. know they're they're in general. pro-military and pro-killing bad people. but also they think all life is precious. protect babies with guns it's [ __ ]. it's wild but it's also you know if you. don't give up your gun people with guns. will take your guns and they'll have all. the guns to make sure that you don't. have guns and it's like Jesus no it is.

it is a a thought virus cult to think. that you have to have your identity sort. of. align with this cluster of beliefs this. is everything intersects and so like I. need to do that that I feel I honestly. feel bad for people who find themselves. in in that spot well it's it's brilliant. people this is a problem like Thomas. Soule had a great point about that that. intellectuals will oftentimes. compartmentalize and ignore evidence in.

in like we're talking about brilliant. people that we rely on to be the voice. of reason or the voice of of uh of. intelligence and fact when it comes to. certain particular arguments that. they'll they'll align with only the. facts that support their case or support. their position and if it doesn't support. their position they'll conveniently. ignore it and you know we see that with. almost everything we saw that very. clearly with uh the the discussion about.

covid and whether or not metabolic. health is important and whether or not. other treatments are important or. whether or not you should accept the. narrative that there's one binary. argument and that there's one answer and. that this is the only answer to solve. this problem and clearly that's not the. case and not true it was is represented. across like so many different. demographics some somebody so many. people that were similar but did. different things had better outcomes so. there's all there's also this weird.

thing that human beings or. almost automatically do. is they try to find the most convenient. answer and then answer that supports. their pre-existing conditions or their. pre-existing positions rather. yeah it's weird how covid seems. far away now but like for history books. are going to look at that as you know. the the largest scale psychological.

experiment on Humanity that's ever. occurred I'm sure literally billions of. people behaving I mean you know it used. to be like Stanford Prison Experiment. you know the elevator experiment you. know that one where like people everyone. in the elevator is turned the opposite. way of the door and then people who walk. in just turn and face the other wall. just because everybody else in the. elevator is doing it. I mean billions of people doing that. type of Behavior now.

yeah it's it's a problem with human. beings that we we're tribal and we want. the respect and the acceptance of our. tribe and if our tribe is even if it's. illogical is heavily leaning towards one. position we feel absolutely compelled to. do what the tribe is doing. and we we support each other we talk. about it we discuss it and we find. rationalizations. it's hard though because you can't know. everything and you want to be able to. trust experts and like defer to.

Scientific consensus which isn't even. really shouldn't be a thing well no. that's not even scientific consensus. it's scientific consensus along people. that are willing to accept the the. proposed narrative by these very corrupt. organizations that you could follow a. very clear paper trail of money and. influence that led them to these. decisions like the lab League hypothesis. is one of the best examples of that. where there's literal email actual. emails that show people thinking that it.

came from a lab and then there is. discussion with other people that don't. think it came from the lab and then. there's money that gets exchanged where. they get these grants and they've. changed their position. and it's very weird and no one is. discussing it in any mainstream Source. where they're saying hey we've got a. real [ __ ] problem with this and this. is the problem this is how to happen it. takes independent journalists and people. that are very brave that that get. censored they get removed from YouTube.

they get banned from Twitter and these. are the people that came out and had a. problem with this and a lot of them have. Rock Solid credentials a lot of them are. established doctors and and scientists. and they're saying here's the problems. and why aren't we addressing these. problems and these people are getting. you know these pejoratives labeled on. them like they're anti-vaxxers they're. conspiracy theorists they're fools. you know it's it's very strange. but we did we did watch it we did.

witness it and some people learned from. it and some people developed a new. healthy sense of skepticism about public. narratives and other people just they're. still they have their heels dug in why. don't you believe in science like what. what science are you what are you. talking about science is data I don't. believe in data are you looking at all. the data because I bet you aren't let's. discuss some of that data and then when. you see the Panic on their face when. they they're forced to discuss this data. and they're forced to discuss like these. inconvenient realities it's [ __ ].

fascinating yeah and it's just another. example of the lack of access to. information because China is just you. know keeping it all super tight you know. because obviously if if the pandemic. spawned from them that's going to have. geopolitical consequences yeah. but it's a perfect example like that. just ripped through this planet and we. don't know what happened and there are. people who know more than we know yeah.

about what happened and we're you know. but but they you know probably national. security reasons from all governments on. lock we gotta we can't let this out. because you know it could cause unrest. or well how about that [ __ ] New York. Times article about Nordstrom it's the. same attitude like maybe it's best that. we don't know did you see the clip of. Biden saying that oh we will put an end. in Nordstrom. I did not oh my God so this is in the. original Seymour Hersh article you know.

basically how the US destroyed. nordstream and there's a clip of Biden. pre-nored stream. saying. it will be you know we're gonna put an. end to Nordstrom that guy must be such a. [ __ ] nightmare to those people. because he's so compromised you know. wait his mind the way a nightmare to his. his team yeah to the people that don't. want that out there oh right because. he's just he's so mentally compromised.

like he he right you can't trust him he. gets in front of a microphone let's hear. what he says like. Russia invades that means tanks or. troops crossing the uh the the border of. Ukraine again then uh there will be uh. we there will be no longer a Norse team. too we we will bring an end to it Jesus. Christ. how would you how will you do that.

exactly. since the project and control of the. project is within Germany's control. we will I promise you we'll be able to. do it oh my God. what a [ __ ] nightmare he must be and. it you know for from The New York Times. end of things like they're scared people. are scared because if it I mean that is. an act of War yeah but it seems like. what Seymour Hurst said seems to be true. I mean he is all the documentation he.

knows what happened when it happened who. did it yep and if he's he's Seymour her. she's not a [ __ ] [ __ ] he's not just. some random person he's in he's 20 plus. year old Pulitzer prize-winning. journalist he's one of the best. journalists that's ever existed. exactly and for for this I mean. it's basically the most recent false. flag that yeah has occurred if it's true. right and be because.

you know that that was providing energy. to Europe right I mean people's that had. serious effects on how much people were. paying yeah for energy serious effects. serious effects yeah. so it's scary is it completely destroyed. yeah. so it's no longer providing right. that was the second pipeline I think. right there was another one that still. does then what I heard recently was that. Saudi Arabia is buying Russia soil then. Distributing it to Europe.

oh great so they bypassed it right. right smart of Saudi Arabia. I mean when you have a president that's. saying something like that and then it. actually happens and he's like we don't. have anything but this is actually one. of the things that makes me not believe. in aliens. um is that. unless the current Administration is. just so in the dark about what is going. on on our planet like I would think that. if the government was actually in on. this and aware they wouldn't be going.

around blowing up pipelines like. wouldn't the wouldn't uh government. relationships with aliens mean that like. they have some semblance of. understanding of. um how to. how to behave but do you think that. that's the level of understanding and. information exchange they have or do you. think it's more like. chimpanzees in the Congo being aware of. researchers watching them. because I would imagine it's more like. that but even still that is so imp if.

they know I doubt Biden has been you. know clued in if it is real but about. UFO about UFOs well it seems that. Clinton and at least Obama that was and. and Trump even Trump talked about it. they tried but it seems like they failed. um based on yeah I I think I Trump said. that he knows some things but he can't. talk about them yeah and then famously. like Obama and you know this is the one.

thing that is still funny about Jimmy. Kimmel which you know his level of. findiness has. has degraded but he he will still he. grilled Obama and Hillary Clinton about. UFOs which is just a great thing to do. which we can all agree on but don't you. think that that was previously discussed. because when you do one of those shows. they break down what you're going to. talk about. yeah but I mean why would they agree to. it because they have a patented way of. dismissing it and an answer but Obama. said like I cannot reveal right I don't.

know I I think that there where it seems. based on their behavior it seems they're. aware and interested in the subject you. know you've got you've got Hillary. walking around holding the UFO book. which we have on on camera. um. uh there was one there she was. photographed holding a a well-known book. about UFOs and you know because podesta. also has a an interest in it but I mean. yeah but to get back to would Biden. engage would we be engaging in all this.

Warfare if we knew aliens were kind of. observing us right it just seems it. doesn't make sense I I mean not that it. needs to make sense but if I were in. office and I knew that you know there. were these crafts that like were. watching us we didn't really know what. was going on like I would be focused. sing on that and trying to like clean up. you know make nukes safer clean up the. planet like do things that and even go.

talk to Putin and G about what's going. on yeah but it doesn't seem like you're. ever gonna stop this control of natural. resources and this this grasp of power. that human beings have and if you're. engaged in that and that's a gigantic. part of the economy of international. relations why wouldn't they continue. business as usual even in with the. knowledge that UFOs exist I think I feel. like it's a risk it would be a risk to. our relationship with the ETS what if we.

don't have a real relationship well but. even if we don't if we if the behavior. that we're exhibiting is just Reckless. blowing each other up destroying the. planet that's gonna not make us look. good to them in which case maybe they. would start messing with us I don't know. it just seems like it doesn't if there's. a higher level of like beings that are. higher than us. I would not be risking playing these. Earthly games right but how do you stop.

this if you if the whole purpose of this. like this war machine is this constant. try attempt to control resources and. consolidation of power which it seems to. be. they this is the game that they're. playing no matter what and there's a lot. of money involved in this game and. there's a lot of influence in this game. this is this is the game that the United. States plays but no matter what they're. gonna stop playing this game because. there's a space daddy out there watching. us I think that it's the the space daddy.

is potentially the one thing that could. make us stop. right which makes me think that there is. no space Daddy I it makes me think they. don't have a relationship with space. Daddy. this is what I think I think they're. just doing what they've always done and. maybe in relation they're just watching. all this [ __ ] go on and they don't have. real answers I think they're they're. risking our our planet by. you know if they if aliens were gonna.

get hostile I feel like they would much. more likely get hostile to humans who. could potentially fly out into the. universe with nukes and you know spread. our Devastation but that's very far in. the future we don't really have that. that capability right now I would. imagine that if they're watching and. they're observing that this is business. as usual for the human race they would. if they were going to intervene and step. in they would step in if we employed. nuclear weapons and we were really at. the risk of destroying ourselves this is.

like a little slap in the face on the. schoolyard this is not as horrific as. Hiroshima and Nagasaki. but imagine you're in office and you you. get verification you know you get the. physical proof that you need to know and. it's super classified would that not. complete I mean would that not change. your whole reality and run the world. what do you do with that do you go to. the military industrial complex do you. go to the pharmaceutical industry to go.

to all these people say all these people. that are polluting rivers and all the. the [ __ ] the East Palestine thing do. you you say hey this can never happen. again because UFOs are watching well I. think that you at least hit up world. leaders on private channels and start. having the conversation like hey guys. like can we talk about this for a second. because. we're seeing these craft and it's. occurring and we want to be on the same.

page because. probably a good idea to do that yeah but. there's no evidence that it's a good. idea to do that there's no evidence that. they're doing anything other than. watching us well but. wouldn't it be a good idea for us to. coordinate other players in the earth to. understand our strategy sure it would if. if it got to that but it hasn't gotten. to that right now it's gotten to the oh. there's this thing that flies really. fast and goes into the water and doesn't. make a splash the [ __ ] is that I don't.

know but uh it's a lot of [ __ ] oil. and we got to get that oil and there's a. lot of resources we've got to control. those resources because if we don't. China will if we don't Putin will if we. don't this and that and you know we have. to maintain our control and we're the. world's leader and we're this and that. and you know it's just business as usual. while this is all happening in this very. weird way where the Pentagon discusses. it but not very specifically and not. gives you all the information and just.

says I can't talk about it but yeah we. do have a crashed UFO and we have more. video that we haven't shared which we. know melon said that yeah that they have. higher res stuff yeah they're. specifically not sharing mind-blowing. stuff of I mean just the fact when I. first heard that that they have higher. res like in my brain I feel like I. changed. because that felt like another level of. validation for this being more of a real.

thing not that I believed in that moment. but I feel like it's it's it changed who. I was a little bit because I it felt. more real my my concern is it's a. distraction and that this is all Black. Ops stuff and these are drones and these. are some things that we have uh the the. capabilities of of utilizing and that. we've created and that the United States. citizens don't need to know about the. world citizens don't need to know about. and this is a massive. advantage that the people that are in.

control of these technologies have over. everyone else wouldn't it be better to. say these are from another world and we. don't have any idea I mean to be honest. like I sort of lean towards that option. given how they're behaving because. they're behaving more in a military. application mode yeah of of this stuff. they're not they're not behaving like in. a human way whenever they say it's. something I'm like why are you telling. me that well you're telling me that.

because you want me to believe it's. something like why would I believe you. when you lie about basically everything. if they lie about Nordstrom they lie. about the Gulf of Tonkin they lie about. you know all the different things. they've lied about why would they tell. the truth about this all of a sudden. right and and this the whole thing like. oh well they wouldn't be messing with. our own pilots and restricted airspace. well maybe they would right do that. because that is how you create confusion. yeah so but that being said I don't know.

I I it's just like a bobble head I'm I'm. just going back and forth every day well. I think yeah we're basically just. mentally masturbating until there's some. real information well there is but there. is but there is so there we're back. again. but there's so little there's so little. and so it's so inconclusive and there's. so many you know statements like maybe. we can teach AI to like go and get the. information for us I wonder what chat. GPT says about UFOs. yeah and but now that it's becoming.

autonomous like I mean you want to give. it a run what would you like okay. typically ask it let's say our to your. knowledge are we being visited by beings. or crafts from another world. how about that okay yeah visited by. beings or crafts from another world. it'll probably provide a bullet list of.

cases that's what I'm guessing. here it goes as an AI language model I. didn't have personal beliefs or opinions. but I can provide you with information. based on the topic of extraterrestrial. visitation as my knowledge the cutoff. date of 2021 there's no conclusive. evidence that definitely provides proves. the existence of extraterrestrial life. or that we are being visited by beings. or crafts From Another World while there. have been many claims of sightings. abductions and encounters these have. often been attributed to. misinterpretations of natural phenomenon. hoaxes or psychological phenomenon.

however some scientists and researchers. continue to explore the possibility of. extraterrestrial life and the potential. for Interstellar travel the search for. extraterrestrial intelligence seti is an. ongoing scientific effort to detect. signs of intelligent life elsewhere in. the universe while initiatives such as. breakthrough star shot aim to develop. technology for Interstellar travel and. similar in summary. while there is no concrete evidence of. extraterrestrial visitation the search.

for extraterrestrial life and the. possibility of interstellar travel. remain topics of scientific interest in. investigation. oh that's so weak yeah I mean they're. not they're not even aware of the the. most recent Advan advances in the US. government for how it's being looked. into you know they're talking about as. of 20 oh 2021 yeah so it's why is it. giving you information from two years. ago when all this stuff really kind of. broke it broke in 2017 that was the New. York Times article that claimed at the.

Pentagon right so that should be there. yeah. yeah I mean yeah man no I love it all. all of these issues are. are so much fun to talk about whatever. the most fun yeah UFO is the most fun to. talk about and it's just like we're. I'm just focused on trying to have more. civil conversations about it because it. just seems like everybody just wants to. jump on their team's side and just have.

shallow conversations like be able to. pursue possibilities from the other side. Steel Man the other side like Steel Man. Steel Man Steel Man constantly that's. what like that needs I didn't why isn't. that being taught in school right I've. never heard that until it was like 35. right right what the [ __ ]. that's so true yeah it's so important to. be able to do that with every argument I. try to do that with the things that I'm. opposed to I'll try to steal man things.

it's it's important to really not know. why you think about things. that's that should be taught. it's not. you know it's accept the narrative. there's um these Pentagon files are the. same thing the New York Times is doing. with. um the nordstream stuff that so there's. basically been a media blackout over. these Pentagon files like the it's being. called the the biggest US Government. League since Snowden this happened in. like the last couple weeks and Fox News. even made a statement We're Not Gonna.

cover this. we're not going to show the documents. because like serious blueprints for. Ukraine were were leaked and do you hear. about these yes so explain that to. people I I'm not I'm definitely not an. expert on this but it seems like a. blueprint for setting up this war. yes you know like very sensitive. document I mean Kirby one of the. John Kirby he's like Biden spokesperson. he's the guy who lied about the.

Nordstrom thing you know in The Press. Room and he came out and said to he. specifically. told media don't cover this. leak which is just a shocking thing to. hear from you know uh government. official telling the Press not to cover. a leak did he give a reason. I mean uh National Security and like. screwing up the whole Ukraine situation. with the truth.

yeah. yeah I mean it's a huge strategic don't. come to the truth guys. you're with us yeah meanwhile we've been. [ __ ] you for decades. yeah yeah that money doesn't listen to. us. so these leaks are the leaks are. escalating which you know obviously you. don't want it to be. um and this is why the government should. start the process of like. an actual disclosure you know opening up.

foia Freedom of Information Act much. further making a much. setting us on a path to get the. information because otherwise we're. going to get these keep getting these. leaks and it's going to be worse for. them yeah because it's going to come out. willy-nilly and it's going to cause a. lot more problems it's going to. completely erode trust right yeah yes so. like let's you know we can probably all. get on board for a path to getting there. yeah so well listen man.

um I appreciate you and I really. appreciate what you're doing and your. thought process behind all this and that. you're just. stuck to these ethics you've stuck to. them from the very beginning when you've. formulated this country this company and. you're you're still doing it thanks so. much appreciate it very much tell people. it's minds.org minds.com or mines.com. both. um or you can get it on the App Store. just search mines m-i-n-d-s or if you. want to support us we funder.com Minds. trying to be Community owned and yeah my.

pleasure brother thank you very much bye. everybody. [Music].