Joe Rogan Experience #1955 - Cliff Gray

[Music]. by night. [Music]. what's up man nice to meet you in first. you too we've been chatting back and. forth online for quite a while now. yeah man you know it's funny I was. looking at it I think it's been like. five or six years since their first like. interaction. how did you get involved uh being a.

hunting guide what was your what's your. path to that. Yeah man so it's a I guess it's a a long. story you know I I grew up in a rural. area my dad my dad was a cattle rancher. and then he did a little outfitting when. I was a kid and then well it's kind of a. long story man because. I thought this was normal when I was a. kid but. when I was when my dad was an adult he. was a cattle rancher and then he went. back to vet school and so he actually. left outfitting and cattle ranching and. pursued that and that was when he was.

like in his 40s you know and so that was. my first exposure to you know being an. Outfitter or guiding was through my. father and then honestly man like. growing up I hunted all the time I've. been I've been obsessed with you know. hunting since I was 10 12 years old and. then. I went and kind of did a more. traditional I guess lifestyle I went to. school went to undergrad went to. business school and then I worked in.

finance for a few years and I mean we. could we can get deep into like why that. didn't last you know I maybe you can. help us explain why the banks are. failing right now. no no man it's been so long since I've. I've been in that world what a what a. different contrast though the contrast. between that world and the world that. you live in now dude it's crazy it's. crazy to think about because I still. know people that you know are Finance. guys my brother's a finance guy does he. live in hell yeah well you can't be.

happy yeah yeah he he's he's doing all. right because he doesn't you know he. doesn't uh um all this the investment. strategies that he's due for the most. part like hedge type of strategies but. uh but he's doing okay but yeah it's a. different it's a different world man. it's definitely a different world yeah. yeah and I always I always look back on. my path and I think like well did I. Choose You know did I choose the right. thing. I don't know but I'm happy so I guess if. you if you're happy you chose the right.

thing but no one there's no right thing. there's just like life life and. decisions this idea that you're gonna. like oh I wish I could do it differently. well you definitely can't so don't wish. that there's no way you can do it. differently right unless you have a. [ __ ] time machine and even if you. have a time machine you will already. have the knowledge of what happens if. you do it wrong so if you go back and. try to do it right who knows how you're. gonna [ __ ] that up yeah sure like it's. not life that's imagine living your life.

knowing what's going to happen if you do. it certain ways like that would be a. terrible way to live like you'd be just. you would never be in the moment you. would be constantly filled with that. this anxiety of making sure that you. don't do the thing that you have already. done right so that you could live your. life in a different way I mean I can. imagine if like you know you run a red. light and crash into a car and like go. oh my God how could I stop that from. happening again I have to to make sure I. don't do that again sure things like. that yeah that makes sense yeah but like.

a whole life path yeah like change your. whole life yeah I wish I did it a. different way well you definitely didn't. so keep going right well hey man life's. so light like life's so path dependent. you know and that you get you know you. choose certain things and there's. probably like a million different ways. it could go and you know that was like. for me there's a point in my life when I. was doing Finance I was I was a Trader. when I was a young guy and at you know. there's just kind of a moment where I'm. like man dude I I just want to do.

something else and then you start down. that path and it just it leads you in. Wild places man yeah well literally for. you yeah yeah sure did look at me right. here where I'm at right now like you. would have never I would have never. imagined this in the my wildest dreams. that's funny but I'm at Wild places like. the wild like oh yeah yeah yeah yeah. that too both things both things are. kind of wild yeah yeah yeah so what did. how did you make this choice to like get. off the path because for a lot of people. I think one of the problems with the.

path is. um you get married you get a house you. have kids you have responsibilities and. then you're stuck because you really. can't change careers because you have so. many dependents there's so many people. depending upon you you have so many. responsibilities you have to kind of. just suck it up and keep doing this. thing that you don't enjoy for your. family. yeah so to answer that question man I I. think I have to be a little a little. humble about a joke because. I came from a family in including my.

wife when I when I when I met my wife. and like I was a guy that was well. educated and looked like a guy that was. going to be on like a traditional path. to you know to you know to great success. as a finance guy and that's when I met. my wife and then I like I tricked her. man because I switched it up on her you. know but she stayed with me the whole. time and so I got I gotta give her that. but also my family too man like you can. imagine like you know my my parents you.

know wanted me to get a great education. I mean they my my family man like. basically lived the American dream like. none of them they didn't grow up wealthy. you know nor did I but they kept me. comfortable and then. you know they got great success and they. wanted they wanted or they got you know. they got Success Through hard work and. they wanted to see me you know have a. path of like you know go go to Wall. Street go be an attorney go do something. like that because that seemed like the. easy path I think in their mind and.

seemed to make sense and they were. giving me that opportunity but when I. decided not to do that man not one time. have my parents or my brothers for that. part said like dude you're doing you're. being an idiot you know what I mean like. when I told him like Hey I'm gonna buy. so essentially I bought an outfitting. business that had been you know. pretty much run into the dirt you know. and it was just it was just Federal. permitting where I could expand into a. bigger you know guiding business in in. Colorado when I told them I was going to.

do that like I was quitting my job at. the time and I was work I was I had. transitioned working to working for a. wealthy family who treated me awesome. but um when I said hey man I'm gonna I'm. gonna go be an Outfitter. my parents were like I mean my my dad. was like sounds awesome you know my. brother is like sounds awesome I can't. and I don't think that everybody grows. up in a family that's that supportive of. it so I don't want to say that like. I you know did it all like I'm just a.

guy that just said hey I'm gonna do. something cool and independent it was. what I wanted to do and I had support. man so I can't I can't well that's very. fortunate yeah yeah that's very. fortunate so what how did you so if. you're in the middle of this world this. financial world how did you make that. transition like what were the steps. involved in making the transition did. you just immediately up and quit and. just figure out how to get a job as an. Outfitter or were you already doing some. outfitting yeah so so I've been in I.

mean all through my childhood you know. and then even when I was an undergrad in. school I hunted all the time and I had. done a bunch of guiding and I was. exposed to the other thing for my type. of outfitting and guiding I had been. exposed to livestock and horses and. mules my whole my whole life and that's. a big part of like Wilderness outfitting. is you got to be familiar with you know. how to pack mules how to pack horses how. to ride horses you know up in the. mountains because that's a huge.

proportion of what I what I did just to. get into remote areas so you know not. not to dive like into the depth of my. childhood but I was exposed to that you. know the first 20 years of my life where. you know I had that skill set so that's. that's the first part of it and then. um you know how I actually mechanically. did it I mean so. the just to give you some context me and. my brother start when I was young out of. business school me and my brother.

started a financial company and it. changed changed in a bunch of different. ways and he still operates it but when I. was I think I want to say like 22 23 I. started working for our biggest client. and he was a phenomenal guy and I was. doing more like family wealth management. for him and literally Joe I was I was. just kind of struggling day to day with. being I always wanted to be in the. outdoors and I wanted to go do something. else and I literally just walked into. his office and I was like Bob like I. love I love you man but I gotta I gotta.

go like I gotta go do something else and. I kind of had a plan to get to go back. to Colorado I was born in the area you. know where where I did most my outfit. and guiding and it was funny because he. looked at me and he kind of he kind of. laughed because I think he knew it was. coming like he he knew he he uh I mean. he came from a different world like he'd. grown in a grown you know growing up in. you know doing business deals and all. that and I grew up from somewhere else I. think that's why he kind of enjoyed. having me around because we would talk.

about you know our you know different. backgrounds and stuff but he was just. like well the first thing he said is. like Cliff can I'm just going to ask you. one time man can I give you more money. I'm like Bob we shouldn't even talk. about it man he's like all right dude go. for it. well that's great so literally like a. week later me me and my wife we moved to. Colorado and I had a what a supportive. wife yeah dude that's awesome yeah I uh. she she's been epic the the whole the. whole way so how did you go about.

starting and getting clients so if. you're starting an outfitting business. you're a young guy you're leaving the. financial sector and you're going and. starting and getting clients how do you. uh go about making that happen yeah so. so part of the part of how that how that. process worked for me is when I got to. Colorado I started doing some packing. and guiding this is I mean this is after. I worked in finance so I took like you. know kind of a most people would say a. step back in my career.

you know so one day I was like looking. at Financial models and and trading and. that sort of thing and then three weeks. later I was like helping guys pack you. know elk out of the Wilderness on meals. you know that sort of thing so so I. started getting exposed to it that way. again. um and then what uh what what I did was. I started just looking for a business to. buy and so you have to there's when. you're operating in the wilderness areas. you've got to have Federal perming so I.

got all that figured out I bought a. business and then it's just like hand to. hand combat man like you I mean the. first year that I was guiding an. outfitting I think I had you know maybe. like a dozen clients or something like. that the last year that that I that I. outfitted I had like north of 200. clients you know so it's just it's just. hand to hand comment and then you know. as you learn an area. and we can get into the nitty-gritty. details of it but these Wilderness areas.

there's no roads in them man so you know. you're talking about hundreds of. thousands of acres and you're talking. about elk that are pretty heavily. pressured I mean it takes years just the. grind of like learning the area and so. over time just like just you know step. by step man and then I started to get. good guides working for me over the. years and we you know we all just got. where we learned the area you know. along the way and then I mean the. reality is the last three or four years.

it was never it was never a problem. booking people we were always booked you. know and that's how that world that's. how that world is in a lot of ways like. once you get established and you keep. people happy and it's like sort of Word. of Mouth yeah I went with Cliff it was. great yeah yeah he knows how to get. there yeah what you do is fascinating to. me because it's such a it's one of the. more interest kinds of hunting. where you go really deep in uh with.

animals you know you bring in mules or. horses yeah and you go very very deep in. to find these animals and um I you know. I think uh most people on the outside. that think about hunting they don't. really understand how grueling it is how. unbelievably difficult it is to get you. know 15 20 miles in yeah and then if you. do shoot an animal to get that animal. out is an unbelievable struggle yeah and.

if you're talking about public land it's. really one of the best ways to find elk. or to find really good elk right. yeah yeah no I mean you have to in a lot. of these areas I mean people think about. Colorado Joe and they think so I I. hunted what technically would have been. the lar they they say the White River. Elkhart is the largest elker in the in. the in the world right. so you have that perception that oh okay.

well you go there you go into the flat. tops or you go into the surrounding. Forest you know Forest Service property. and you just put your backpack on get. off the road and there's going to be elk. everywhere well I mean it's a it's a ton. of habitat and the thing about a lot of. that country is. all the habitat's good you know you can. go other places and they've got elk but. you you know the. only ten percent of the actual habitat. is gonna hold elk right well the flat. tops or you know these big chunks of.

space in Colorado I mean it's all good. elk habitat you know until until you get. massive amount of snow that limits the. feed for Elk I mean elk could be. everywhere so what I'm getting to is. they get they get crazy dispersed and so. and the only way to get into a lot of. these areas is either backpacking you. know on your foot hiking uh on your feet. hiking or um you know you've got to pack. in with horses and mules do you guys go. in and set up a wall tent like yeah and.

then are you there for weeks or months. at a time like how do you how do you do. it yeah so if if we're talking so all. the if if we're talking elk the elk is a. species almost all of that was out of. wall tank camps and we packed those in. now now I had I did a fair amount of. sheep and goat guide into most of that. we did out of backpacks just because the. out like a lot of the the habitat that. mountain goat it's in in sheep live in. it's not really conducive to packing. with horses just because you end up.

getting above Timberline and there's. just some logistical reasons a lot of. times it's better to backpack on them. um but on elk it's almost always you're. so you're packing your camp with horses. and mules and then you're coming back in. sometimes you'll hunt off foot you know. if if the Camp's in a in a situation. where you can cover ground on foot and. Hunt then you'll do it that way but a. lot of times you'll actually bring. horses back in and horseback too and. that's like a whole people don't I mean.

you know taking care of horses you know. if you've got 15 horses and mules in. Camp like you know 12 miles back in the. wilderness like it's you know it feels. like going back in time man yeah you. know I mean that's why that's why I mean. honestly Joe by the time I sold so I. sold my main business like 18 months ago. by the time I sold it the majority of my. crew is Amish. really yeah Amish yeah how did you find. these guys do they just so I because. they don't use electricity right so yeah.

yeah so we could get them online. wait do they cheat so yeah yeah so. dude I I got some Amish buddies that I I. love man and I don't so I don't I don't. want to like uh like Mark if you're. listening man and you probably shouldn't. be listening because you're Amish but. but no to answer your question man is it. just depends on you know what church. they're from and the rules you know the. rules that they have established you.

know and what they're doing so if it's. for business a lot of them can use email. they can really yeah oh what a hack yeah. that's ridiculous then you're not yeah. that's the whole thing you can't use. [ __ ] email here's the deal so yeah so. they I you know I I'm not an expert at. them but I became very good friends with. with some of them you know because I. mean I had some of them work for me for. four or five years and man there's some. things about them that are absolutely.

amazing you know what I mean like. hard-working people hard working is that. understatement man and the other thing. that's wild about him is I had a lot of. very young Amish guys come work for me. and and we can get into the details of. that technically they hadn't like. committed to the Amish church so they. weren't technically Amish yet oh was it. the rum Springer thing yeah they would. be kind of in that in that process. people don't know they have like a time. period of an indefinite time period. where they're allowed to just run around. and party and do drugs and and yeah and.

sleep around and then they have to come. back to the church if they want to right. and when they came out to my place they. didn't do any of that stuff other than. work. you know but. but anyways they they uh they would come. out and um what I noticed man is if you. take an 18 year old Amish guy. and you're just doing stuff around like. Ranch because we you know we were. outfitting and guiding a lot of time but. we also had to manage the livestock and. we had kind of a ranch that we had to.

take care of those guys at 18 they know. a ton because they already been they've. already been working for seven years you. know I mean they know how to frame a. door you know they you know they they. could show up to my place Joe and like. they'll be they'll they're wearing. sandals and shorts and you're thinking. like this guy's never been around. livestock and you'd be like hey man go. grab that mule and saddle it every. single one of them knew how to do it. because they grow up they grow up. catching horses and you know putting.

them on a buggy every day you know so. it's pretty it's just it's just wild. that they learn all these skill sets. that you know really early on so in some. ways like I don't. you know from an education standpoint. none of them had a hard time. communicating with me or you know we. always could get through all that you. know maybe they didn't have as good as. spelling or they didn't have as good. like algebra skills or something because. they missed out on some of that. education maybe but I can tell you from. a work ethic and like a like a Hands-On.

skill set they're amazing man yeah. that's an education too it's it's. interesting because we only want to. think about education in terms of like. things you can use in the corporate. world or right you can use in the. business world but the reality of. education is you're learning things and. they learn so many things I'm sure that. the average person who works in an. office is never going to understand. right take an average guy who works over. at Google and say hey man go go put a. saddle on that mule yeah and they're.

like what the [ __ ] are you talking about. right yeah that's a learned skill and. yeah it's a learned skill that has a. diminished value in our world but in. your world in the world of Outfitters is. a very high value yeah yeah I mean yes. and the thing about their education too. it's like the homeschooling I'm sure it. varies wildly yeah yeah and that's why I. don't mean to make a judgment you know. I'm sure some of them are like really. yeah homeschooling their kids and some. of them it's just like regular. homeschooling you know I've read I've. met some homeschooled kids that are. phenomenal they're like really.

interesting kids but the parents did a. great job of giving them a very nuanced. education and then sure also committing. them to activities so they interacted. with a lot of kids on a regular basis. they just didn't go to school during the. day with kids and it's like if you have. that kind of time and that kind of. commitment and you you know maybe you're. just not very happy with the regular. school system it's not. people used to think that it was a bad. idea to homeschool your kids but during. covet I think a lot of people kind of. opened their eyes first of all a how.

difficult it is but also that there's a. value to being there while your. children's children are learning things. you can kind of communicate with them. and go through especially if you have an. expertise in something right like if. like I used to uh my youngest daughters. used to do uh martial arts and. was kind of like a mixed martial arts. class and I would go with them to mixed. martial arts class and sit on the. sideline and then a couple of times some. stuff came up and I said to the.

instructor I said actually shouldn't. really do it that way yeah because like. they weren't you know as a black belt in. Jiu Jitsu I'm like yeah you're actually. exposed you're gonna get your back taken. if you teach people this path right like. this is a very vulnerable path like let. me show you the difference and so I'd go. on the mat with them and show them the. next thing I know I'm doing it with my. daughter and I'm having her do it and. working with little kids it's really. exciting it's fun to be able to teach. your kids something and they they love. that you know something that they can. learn and it's like it gives them Pride. so like these people that are learning.

from their families and from their. Community it's a completely different. way of life but it's probably a more. healthy way of life than the average. person experiences just going to a. regular Monday Dane sort of you know. very regimented Traditional School. System yeah no I I think I think that's. for sure the case I'm not the. electricity thing is ridiculous.

well you know it's it's funny yeah I'll. I'll tell you about a conversation I had. I had with one guy that I considered a. pretty good friend and and I'll be. honest with you the Amish from what my. observations they don't make a a real. strong effort to have like close. relationships with people outside of the. community at least I I always felt that. way but one one individual I would say. is a very good friend of mine and I. asked him like well dude like what it. seems like so it seems like like where.

do you where do you stop the technology. where do you start. and he actually had a rational rational. explanation he said look man like we. make these judgments and I think a big. part of it is we're just trying to judge. like we we know the value of having a. certain pace of life and these. technology judgments are based on that. we want to be able to still you know. succeed feed our families because they. still got to deal with like the. realities of you know they got to buy. land to have their Farms all that stuff.

but he's like look it's all about pace. of life for us so if we look at a. technology and it's going to change that. Dynamic then you know certain churches. may choose not to do that so I'm with. you man like there's there's odd things. that they do but I kind of get that. explanation too I kind of get it but. it's just weird that they have that. electric electricity loophole yeah male. loophole what does it say word processor. a new word processor with more memory. and more speed May specifically for the. plain people by the plane people is that.

what they used to call themselves I. don't know this is what it comes up in a. few advertisements for this it's called. the classic seals series but is it the. advertising is for Amish because it's. calling the plain people it's I mean. it's being sold in yeah look at that. look for Jake or Jonah Shippensburg. Pennsylvania hold on so what it what is. it here it's a it's a word processor but. it's non-electrical oh this one it does. yeah oh that's a but the last one that.

looked like it was just it was it looked. like what is that I mean like what is. powering that [ __ ] thing. it's got USB floppy what no modem no. phone Port internet nothing fancy not. just a locked computer no modem no phone. Port no internet connection no outside. programs no sound no photographs no. games and no gimmicks nothing fancy just. a Workhorse for your business high-end. word processing typing tutor auto spell. check Auto word film what year is this.

from 2008 I think oh wow yeah yeah they. have a lot of this kind of stuff where. they kind of work around like kind of. work around the yeah the limitations. that they're that's funny look at the. [ __ ] horse and buggy on the street. there Jamie. that [ __ ] is so annoying if you're ever. in rural Pennsylvania and you get stuck. behind one of those guys like oh crap I. found this and said that their uh cell. phone usage though is kind of common yes. that's uh [ __ ] cheating move I I.

think I think that's dare you with for. business in particular man I think. that's pretty much like standard now. well I guess they'd have to have a phone. phone line if you're gonna have a phone. line why would you have a internet line. yeah or a cell phone line rather yeah my. friend my parents used to work in uh. used to live in Harrisburg so okay I see. those folks yeah when you drive to them. you also drive through the [ __ ] um. the areas where they raise cattle it was. the worst smell. you know where the Amish were it only.

was Amish no that didn't have anything. to an Amish that was just cattle raising. okay I think that was like. I don't know whether it's factory. farming what kind of farming it might. have been like the I know they uh they. feed a lot of silage you know like like. you know process feed feed that's been. basically fermenting and that's what. that smells all the time oh really yeah. that makes sense because it wouldn't be. the cow itself yeah and you know it's. like you know it's silent you know what. silage smells like no I don't know so a.

lot of times when you're driving you'll. see like uh you'll see like tarps you. see like there'll be cattle there you. see it by dairies a lot of time there'll. be cattle there and then you'll see like. these these tarps laying out and what. that is is they've got hay underneath it. and they ferment it and it's silage and. then they feed it to the cattle and is. the fermenting on purpose to give them. more. um probiotics yeah I think so I'm not an. expert about on it on it Joe but um I. think part of it is it just makes it.

more palatable so they can I think just. consume enough calories interesting and. then there I'm sure there's some. nutritional aspect to it too I'm I'm. just I just don't know the details of it. that makes sense that it's that's why it. would stink so bad because I thought it. was just death yeah in the time when I. was driving to see my folks I think it. was the 90s. pretty sure it was the 90s so like I. wasn't that hip to that stuff anyway I. just thought it was just a stinky yeah. dead area sure where they've raised cows.

yeah yeah no I hear you but Christ it. stunk I couldn't imagine living there. because the problem with uh all Factory. senses is you only detect changes in. smells oh yeah so you just get. accustomed to your neighborhood stinking. yeah yeah well it was really weird it's. hilarious you say that because you get. you like I got so used to the smell of. horseshit over when I was outfitting. like you get so used to it you don't. even know it's around man right but you. know if you're in a wall tent camp and. you're hunting elk for like seven or. eight days and you know it's like half.

snowing it's or it's half snow and then. it melts so it's like muddy you got all. these horses tied up I mean horseshits. everywhere man it's in every lead rope. it's in everything and you don't realize. you know you're out there you know out. there feeding the horses in the dark and. then you go into the the cook tent and. you know you start eating and you you. don't really you know you got horseshit. on your you just get you get used to the. this well it's not a scary [ __ ] that's. not really yeah it's like it's processed. hay yeah it's just hay that's. biologically you know it's sort of gone.

through the system yeah it's not like. dog [ __ ]. isn't that funny because all like. Predator [ __ ] is kind of like gross. off-putting yeah yeah because it's raw. meat yeah dude yeah you see like Lion. [ __ ] or or like when you see deer [ __ ]. you pick deer [ __ ] up yeah no big deal. little balls yeah it's nothing yeah like. my little my little boy if he picks up. he picks up an elk turd or whatever it's. like oh like why that's you know that's. that's an elk turd but man if he tried. to pick up like a bear [ __ ] or something.

like that right well you would also. worry about parasites yeah yeah I think. that might be I mean don't you think. that's maybe why we're so prone to not. like like be a little like off-putting. off put by it more perhaps right the. smell because it's interesting how. animals approach the smell like I have a. Golden Retriever and when he finds I. have a fox that lives in my neighborhood. and he comes into my yard it's pretty. cool I got a video of him blocking. barking in my yard he's such a weird. animal they have such a weird noise.

um anyway shit's in my yard and my dog. finds his [ __ ] and rolls in it every. time like for him it's [ __ ] perfume. so he he gets it like all over his neck. and stuff yeah like obviously it's not. off-putting for him right like I think. for him I don't know what it is that. dogs are doing if they're disguising. their smell with this [ __ ] like I don't. know what they're doing they do the same. thing with dead stuff yeah what do they. find dead I have no idea man I don't. know why that why that is it's weird.

because they all do it and when they do. it you notice like they're like gleeful. when they do it oh yeah. loving it yeah yeah love it he comes in. with just [ __ ] smeared over his neck I'm. like dude yeah yeah you know so. obviously it's not off-putting for them. but humans don't roll around in it no. yeah not the average yeah yeah. that's that's an enigma man you'll have. to get an expert on yeah in that regard. I don't even know what it was how they'd. figure it out there's no exact known. cause of this oh wolves do it too oh.

interesting I think wolves do it to. disguise themselves from prey but that. that's his best answer I found well then. it makes sense that dogs do it because. dogs are just [ __ ] ass Wolves yeah. exactly. um yeah that makes sense yeah you know. they like you know they're trying to. like put get their scent. um covered or something yeah so if an. animal's downwind it's just like I smell. [ __ ] yeah it's not like oh my God I. smell a wolf yeah yeah sure it would. overwhelm the smell yeah well what do. you think about they're bringing wolves.

to Colorado do you have an opinion on. that. yeah man I uh yeah I got lots of. opinions about it I mean so it's gonna. happen for sure you know. um. oh man we could we could dive deep into. this one it's an interesting thing. yeah so I feel like as a person who has. spent some time in the woods not nearly. as much as you but I've spent enough. time that I understand what the woods. are I understand what the wild is and I. don't think most people do I don't I.

think people have a very goofy idea of. what the wild is right like animals. living in a way that they've lived for. thousands of years and you just happen. to be there and if you weren't there it. would take place exactly as you witness. it right without you being there it's. like you have almost no influence on it. they are they are wild they're living in. the woods and wolves are dominant. intelligent calculating Predators yeah.

that they eradicated from the West for a. reason yeah. Yeah man so I think you hit on a bunch. of things that would like bring me back. to my opinion on it and that's that. a lot of this stuff when you when so I. know they they've basically described. two different areas in Colorado where. they're going to put the two or the uh. the two first sets of transplants and. one of them is like right in where. you're not I mean.

I rode that country with a horse like. all over the place in the circle of. where they're gonna put those wolves is. right there so I know where they're. gonna put those you know one of the. spots I know the spot intimately I know. the wildlife they're intimately how many. wolves are they gonna put in so my. understanding is off the bat the first. year and I and I I believe their goal is. by December of this year. um it's going to be like between 15 and. 30 I believe is the first bunch and.

they're going to have them in two. different two different spots but in. that you're in that Veil Veil quarter. Corridor you know up to the flat tops in. there uh you know so they're probably. gonna put 15 to 20 wolves in there the. thing the thing that you hit on Joe that. I think kind of forms my opinion is I. mean these areas when you go in a man. they seem so wild right like you know I. could the flat tops I could get on a. horse and I could ride for 15 15 hours. and not see a road you know or 10 hours.

and not see a road and they seem so wild. even to me being there but I don't think. that people realize how much how much. humans have already affected that. landscape and how it doesn't matter like. the this myth that putting wolves back. in the land that landscape is going to. turn it back to some ecosystem that was. here you know 300 years ago I I I think.

it's I think it's a figment of their. imagination man and and the reason I say. that is because. I've also spent a fair amount of time in. British Columbia that seemed so much. more wild to me and let me kind of like. give you context of why that is you know. you've have you ever been to Vail. Colorado no yeah okay oh I I have but. not not outside okay so like if you look. at if you look at the dynamic of that. area there's a huge Highway that goes.

from Highway 70 that goes from Denver on. the Front Range up you know past all the. ski resorts into Vail into eagle and. then it kind of goes down through a big. the canyon Glenwood Canyon and kicks. back into to Aspen. that all the winter range there is split. by this massive Highway and then that. Highway has a an eight-foot game fence. along the whole whole thing and then you. know along that Veil Valley where. they're wanting to put put these or. where they are going to put these wolves.

you know there's you know 50 000. full-time residents and you know there's. probably double that in the High season. ski season stuff unless you got these. huge ski resorts I guess what I'm. getting at. is when somebody tells me that the. low-hanging fruit to kind of rewild that. areas is wolves it's just [ __ ] you. know what I mean how is it getting past. though well it got passed by a ballot. initiative you know that the ballot.

initiative is how wolves got you know. got to the situation they are now and. basically what the ballot initiative did. is it forced the CPW to take on this. goal of transplanting the the Wolves so. it wasn't the cpw's choice and they and. they you know there's a I don't know the. exact laws uh Joe but this the CPW and. that's the Colorado's Park the Colorado. Parks and Wildlife they're in charge of. managing the wildlife in Colorado how.

can they put something like. the transplanting of wolves a very. complex. biological problem I mean it's you're. dealing with Biology and Wildlife how. can they put that as a ballot initiative. like how can they put that in the hands. of people other than. Wildlife Conservation experts Wildlife. biologists. well I mean the realities are laws our. laws allow that you know yeah but it.

doesn't make rational sense no you know. but it's a it's a decision that for. people that are just like yeah that'd be. amazing let's put the Wolves out there. like people are gonna lose their dogs. like sure you're gonna your dogs are. gonna get eaten like it's going to. affect anyone who has livestock you're. gonna have a problem whether that. problems in three years or in five years. those problems are coming yeah dogs are. 100 gonna get eaten right if you have. acute golden retriever like mine you.

leave them outside like guess what that. dog's dead sure they're gonna team up on. that dog and tear it apart yeah and if. you're cool with going outside and. seeing wolves eat your dog like well. then you've made the right choice but if. you if you're not like if you don't. think they're going to go after. low-hanging fruit if you don't you don't. think they're going to go after easy. prey sure you don't understand wolves. talk to people that live in Alaska yeah. like you know anybody who lives in like. British Columbia like they have real. [ __ ] wolf problems up there right and. these are of problems that we used to. have in the west but they eradicated.

them right I mean I don't think it's. good to eradicate them I'm not saying. that what they did was right when they. poisoned horses and left dead horses. filled with strychnine and you know and. the Wolves all died off but. they did it for a [ __ ] reason yeah. yeah what and that's the thing that's. that's so crazy about you know back to. the the process of how it happened. everybody who who wants wolves in. Colorado and we can get into you know. the depth they want them because that's.

not really clear you know they they just. went through this whole uh you know. setting up the plan for the CPW and it. it became very clear in my mind watching. that process that they they don't really. want there to be any you know uh. management of wolves in Colorado either. it's gonna ever but no yeah so basically. well that's crazy yeah and so that that. week I think you know anybody rational. is going to be like look like we gotta. have like a top to the population. there's no management at all well so.

here's the deal is they're not they have. a draft plan you know for to manage the. Wolves what happened is when the CPW did. that draft plan it included some. discussion of wolves being lethally. managed at all different stages you know. what I mean Joe like even now if they. you know a real problem with livestock. you know could they be lethally managed. but down the road once they had. once they had hit certain population.

objectives could they be hunted right. like that was discussed well it turns. out the ballot initiative basically says. that wolves are a non-game species and. that was in the language of the ballot. initiative so they can't really they. can't really now say the CPW can't. really say that they're going to someday. be 100 a hundred species in Colorado I. personally think and I you know. everything's like 2020 hindsight but. even when the ballot initiative.

originally you know was out there and I. always thought it was going to pass by a. landslide that's what's so crazy because. it just barely passed but. um I always thought like the problem. with Colorado is it's different than. these other Western States you know. Idaho Montana and Wyoming because. they're gonna They're Gonna Keep the. population in line through hunting or. other you know other methods but in. Colorado I don't think the politics are. you know all that man I think it's just.

going to be like who knows what the top. is on you know how many there is how. much they affect the ungulate population. you know who who knows you know but what. I was going to say is what's crazy about. this ballot initiative and the Bummer. part about it is everybody that's going. to deal with the negative consequences. they're they're people that voted no in. but they're in the areas where the. wolves are going to be transplanted. everybody that voted for it they don't. have to deal with the downside they're. living in Boulder yeah dude and unlike.

you man they're cool like I've been. around them in Canada they're way cool. but the. the problem is is every person that that. I've interacted with in British Columbia. you know or even in the western states. that have a fair amount of wolves every. person is just trying to make a living. on the landscape you know he's a guide. an Outfitter a logger a cattle ranch or. whatever like he's out there living He. or she's out there living with them and. dealing with them they're all just like. when you ask about wolves they're like.

it's just like oh you know what I mean. because they got to deal with the. negative consequences all the time. they're a totally different kind of. animal than any other animal because. they act as a pack and right they have. some sort of Intelligent Communication. they're they're badass they're amazing. yeah they're cunning and crafty and. they're efficient ruthless Killers yeah. and they also Surplus kill you know I'm. sure they find them like I think it was. Wyoming recently but they found just. like [ __ ] giant pile of elk that they.

yeah had trapped in high snow and just. tore to Pieces yeah yeah and I don't. know like the stats on how common it is. but you know other other predators do. that too yeah cats do that yeah yeah but. it's a bit you know the difference. between them is that they act as a group. yeah they're the only one of those. predators that acts as a large group. yeah no one in the in their their effect. I mean they're they're effective I mean. even when you talk to I know I know uh a. guy in British Columbia that's I mean.

his whole world's his whole world is. focused on trapping them and I've sat. and talked to him just about like the. details you know like boiling and snares. you know how he goes in and puts his. snares in you know how he goes in and. checks them like all that man on a snare. sleeve no sense yeah yeah yeah yeah. because they just pick up on that that. stuff you know they're they're just so. smart it's and they know that they're. being [ __ ] with too oh yeah yeah yeah. yeah which you know it's funny because. the first thing you said is they're a.

dog and that I mean you you have dogs. you know how it is like they get it. figured out yeah they know things yeah. yeah for sure I mean I talked to my dog. like he understands certain things right. I'm like come on dude let's go outside. and it just starts going towards the. door yeah oh yeah. for sure I can I don't have to say it. like want to go outside yeah do you want. to go outside I can just say hey come on. man let's go outside yeah he's like oh. yeah let's go outside yeah are you. hungry and he's like [ __ ] I'm hungry.

I'm like okay let's eat like he knows. what that means yeah oh yes he knows. some aspects of language sure and you. know what he is is like a really tame. docile version of a wolf yeah a wolf is. like like have you ever been around a. Belgian Malinois yeah I I don't think. I'm those are the dogs they use in war. and police dogs okay they're [ __ ]. scary little meat missiles I got you and. they look at you like this yeah they're.

always thinking and you can't just keep. one of those [ __ ] in your yard. they're too smart they're working dogs. first of all they climb fences yeah like. a chimpanzee they just go right up the. fence and over it I mean have you ever. seen like videos of Belgian Malinois. working I don't think I have Joe dude. I'm trying to put it's wild they can do. [ __ ] where they leap through the air. like you can't [ __ ] believe they. really can jump that high right like. soaring through the air I'm talking like. 12 feet in the air they run jump off a.

guy's back and then leap through the air. like climb over walls that are like 10. feet tall just by running up the wall. yeah it's it's insane that's that's a. wolf yeah this is a this is a Belgium oh. yeah I've seen it man look at this. I mean that's insane it is nuts how's. that dog doing that look at him running. up the [ __ ] wall he's he's basically. a monkey got it figured out look he's. running up a [ __ ] tree to get to a.

mint and then he's hanging on it crazy. man you know the diversity amongst dogs. is wild it is wild but these dogs in. particular are bred and look how smart. they are look you can walk across a type. robe look at that and then saying I mean. that's [ __ ] insane dude they're so. intelligent but that's closer to a wolf. yeah way closer to look look at his ears. I mean they're they're basically an. athlete wolf yeah you know have you ever.

seen these uh these Great Pyrenees dogs. that they run with the Sheep yes yeah. they're they're well they're cool in a. much different way yeah they basically. think they're sheep yeah you know pull. up a Great Pyrenees dogs yeah they're. interesting it's it's so wild that they. all came from wolves and you have so. many different styles of like the way. they look dude these dogs so so there's. big big domestic sheep permits where I. used to outfit so guys running you know.

big bands of sheep periodically in the. wilderness areas and and they keep these. dogs with them and uh these dogs are. something else to run into you know in. the night up in the mountains or. whatever and they're they're just you. know they just protect those sheep just. you know you see these big bands of. sheep like this and. so do they keep wolves off of them yeah. so so I've heard mixed things in this. would be interesting because right where. they're going to put some of these. wolves in Colorado there's some pretty. big domestic sheep guys that run these. Pyrenees dogs oh Jesus and they actually.

so. so sheep in the wilderness are one of. the few animals that are still guarded. by humans you know they usually have a. herder with them yeah and a lot of them. are guys from nowadays it seems to be. that most of them are from Peru I. believe and I used to run into the guys. because they've been out there living. with these Sheep Man for like weeks at a. time so yeah even though there's a. language barrier like when they see you. up there like they wanna they wanna hang. out you know say hi whatever just happy. to see people yeah they'll have like. they'll have a horse with them you know.

maybe I don't know probably five six. hundred cheap and they'll have a couple. of those dogs wow you know but back to. your original question is I've heard. mixed things about these dogs ability to. to deal with Wolves you know and and it. has to do with the fact that well. there's more than you know there's a. group of wolves so if they can draw one. of these dogs off you know the Wolves. can wolves can kill them I know I I've. heard and I'm not an expert at it but I.

know that some people in Wolf country. what they'll do is on the Great Pyrenees. they'll put they'll put spike collars on. them so the you know the Wolves can't. get a hold of them because these dogs. are big like they're a lot bigger than a. wool than most wolves how big are these. dogs these these Great Pyrenees dogs. well they lie about dude I'm thinking. Jamie might have to look this up but I. think they're yeah yeah 150 160 that's. what I was thinking and that's a big dog. yeah you know. um but I don't know how well they'll do. with the wolves and man there's stories.

of wolves getting into these domestic. sheep and killing like a hundred. you know just you know yeah [ __ ] yeah I. don't know I don't know how that's all. gonna work it's not gonna work well. nah I mean this idea that that it's. always good when you reintroduce. Predators like it says who like yeah the. balance right now is pretty goddamn good. like I don't know what they're thinking. they just have this idea that wolves are. amazing well guess what wolves are.

eventually making their way into. Colorado anyway right I mean it's it's a. natural thing that's happening yeah and. at least the way it's happening it'll. probably be more sustainable than just. dropping off a patch of them in an area. that has domestic animals right man I. Joe I don't know why there's I mean I do. understand why there's an obsession with. them they're beautiful and they're cool. oh yeah but I I almost feel like are you. familiar with the uh it I believe the.

the name of the YouTube video is why. wolves change Rivers yeah yeah I've seen. that yeah but that guy do you know the. guy who made that he's a fan of Wilding. and he wants to bring like lions to the. UK yeah like he's [ __ ] insane yeah. like like there's no limit to this logic. of this like trophic Cascade idea yes. yeah well what's crazy to me man is like. so if you watch that that that video and. it's got like 50 million views on.

YouTube or something like that it's. narrated by a guy I mean it's it's. really well done yeah it's just cool to. watch but you watch it I mean if you. listen to The First 90 seconds there's. like a and the reason I bring this video. up is because I actually think that this. video was the start of what happened in. Colorado was a lot of people watch this. and they're like yeah it makes sense you. get this predator in here it fixes all. the problems you know with the rain. balances things yeah it brings. everything everything back but in that.

video a man in the first 90 seconds. there's a bald-faced lie they say I. don't know what it is do you want to. play it should we play yeah yeah let's. let's play it how wolves change Rivers. yeah yeah it's um the guy behind it is. is very controversial I mean I think. it's interesting I think it's. interesting that he has such a passion. towards these animals but this guy. legitimately thinks that Wilding and. rewilding is the way to go for. everything let's play right. [Music].

and plus the guy's accent you'll see man. it draws you in. [Music]. they're cool they're [ __ ] cool. beautiful. [Music]. one of the most exciting scientific. findings of the past half century has. been the discovery of widespread trophic. Cascades a trophic Cascade is an. ecological process which starts at the.

top of the food chain and tumbles all. the way down to the bottom and the. classic example is what happened in the. Yellowstone National Park in the United. States when wolves were reintroduced in. 1995. now we we all know that wolves. kill various species of animals but. perhaps we're slightly less aware. that they give life to many others. before the Wolves turned up they'd been.

absent for 70 years that the numbers of. deer because there was nothing to hunt. them had built up and built up in the. Yellowstone Park and despite efforts by. humans to control them so they'd managed. to reduce money so that's the LIE right. there despite efforts to be controlled. by humans in Yellowstone that that is. just factually incorrect Joe yeah it's. not true at all no it's not true at all. in Yellowstone so the history of. Yellowstone actually you know until the. until like the 60s.

there's two things going on in the park. when they had excess elk which which. they do which makes sense because what. people don't realize I mean. they were killing Predators before the. 60s in Yellowstone like they were. suppressing lions in addition to the. fact that they had already killed the. Wolves you know so there was Predator. suppression going on even in the park. before the 60s well in the 60s well in. the in the late 50s and 60s and that. might be roughly off on these dates but.

the park was actually uh capturing elk. and they are transporting into all the. other states that needed elk you know. because I think that's where they got. them in California Ranch yeah yeah that. might that might be man because most the. all the big transplants in Colorado. Idaho like you know outside of the park. they were they were Yellowstone genetics. you know and I actually even know I know. that some of the. um you know some of the elk that ended. up down on the Indian reservations and.

stuff they were originally can I ask you. about that before we move on. someone I was uh hunting with this guy. in Utah and he was telling me there's. there's literally two different kinds of. and the reason why these elk like in the. The Gila mountain range and the the elk. and Tejon Ranch and they're so big is. because these are Yellowstone elk and. that the Yellowstone elk have wider. bases more mass they're they're larger. animals he was like it's like like you.

know you have a rooseveltal you have a. Tulio elk you have a yeah Rocky Mountain. elk he's like you have a Yellowstone elk. he's like it's a different elk yeah so I. don't know specifically related to. Yellowstone elk but I actually I. actually do know some people who had. original Yellowstone the original so. they had original Yellowstone genetic. elk on their place and then it's a it's. a big high fence place owned by owned by. the natives in uh in New Mexico and they.

actually started to bring in genetics. out of Alberta and those elk out of. Alberta are way bigger than the yellows. that's interesting so what you're saying. I imagine is true Joe I just don't know. exactly but what I have seen is there's. huge difference man like I saw a cow on. this particular place I'm talking about. and it is bigger than any bull I had. ever had a client kill in the fight is.

that like when they when we were like it. was the the cow popped up in the you. know in the brush there probably like. 500 yards from us and I didn't I hadn't. picked up my binoculars yet there is no. way you could have convinced me that was. a cow because it was probably you know. it's probably it was probably like a 750. pound cow what yeah so there I've never. even heard of such a thing oh yeah. they're they're physically they're you. know they're they're physically way. bigger but is that normal for I mean. you're saying this is this is Alberta.

genetics so is that that thing what is. that there's a um. um a thing that happens with animals. when they're in cold climate. where mammals grow larger yeah there's. it's like the same thing between like. Southern BC moose and Yukon moose yeah. yeah and it's also a deer right yeah. like you know you have Coos deer the. little tiny suckers and then you get all. the way to Saskatchewan there's 350. pound white tails yeah sure yeah yeah. even is that it that's what it says it's.

named after it's a royal I think that's. a biology established concept called. bergman's real estate creatures yes yes. tend to be larger to conserve heat the. rules named after Carl Bergman and 19th. century biologist who first described. the pattern in 1847. yeah it totally. makes sense like Texas deer are so tiny. oh yeah it's really interesting yeah. like if you compared like a South Texas. Whitetail to like an Alberta Whitetail. we're in Idaho yeah oh yeah yeah yeah. yeah it's way [ __ ] giant up there. yeah or Iowa yeah and then and it's not.

all feed related part of it is obviously. yeah this this Lolly that makes sense so. I've never even heard of a cow elk being. that big oh yeah man there it there's a. there's for sure a regional I mean part. of that's probably like genetics you. know or like you know selective. breathing of elk two over time which you. know that does exist there's an industry. that does that so that might be part of. it too it could be that these animal too. like much like what we're talking about.

with California with Tejon Ranch you. have these animals that are used to. living in Montana say with the. California the home Ranch and then all. of a sudden they're living in you know. the Tehachapi Mountains and they have no. winter to speak of right where they're. deprived of food they have food all year. round now and so they have this body. that's designed to consume as much food. as possible because Winter's coming. right and the winter never comes yeah so. they just get giant yeah yeah yeah yeah. and that would make sense too I mean I.

was you know elker funny John I'm sure. you've heard the stories like you hear. people talking about killing wild elk. like oh I killed a bull he had to weigh. like 900 pounds like dude I've I mean. I've put a quartered up a ton of bulls. in my life in a big wild bull is you. know 650 pounds 700 pounds be a big one. you know they don't get as big as people. a lot of people say you know what I mean. but if you go to Tejon Ranch yeah they. probably are yeah you're probably right.

no I've seen an 1100 1200 pound elk yeah. so that's you know that's. 60 bigger than the Bulls that I was. exposed to in Colorado yeah they're. extraordinarily large yeah but then you. see a moose and you're like oh my God. yeah yeah I mean first time I saw a. moose live on the hoof walking around. was in BC yeah and it was like that. scene in Jurassic Park we pulled over. the truck we were driving on the road. and we pulled over a truck and I stuck. my head out the window like what yeah.

[ __ ] was so big isn't it goofy because. they're like uh that whole depiction of. them in cartoons like Bullwinkle it kind. of It kind of fits them yeah they're. just like. but [ __ ] dangerous oh yeah the thing. about them that scares me more than any. other they'll they'll come for you. they'll go after you yeah whereas like. no other deer species like goes oh you. want to start some [ __ ] and they'll come. over and stomp you yeah I remember you. know it's funny like when you're riding. in the mountains with you know you're.

riding a horse and maybe you've got like. three or four mules with you a lot of. times you'll pick up off of them that. they sent something before you see it. you know those because they smell. something and usually they'll start like. puffing their nostrils and a lot of. times it would be moose you know you. they start you you can I can hear them. huffing those those mules and horses. that they're what they're trying to do. is they're trying to get more scent in. so they can they can be like they know. exactly what it is right and a lot of. times like as you're going around to. switch back or something you can hear.

them huffing and sure enough you come. around the corner and there'll just be. like a bull you know Bull Moose standing. there in the trail not give a [ __ ] he. like I mean what do you want to do yeah. yeah like you know you didn't you seem. like you're you know you'd seem like. you'd be kind of like a you know uh you. know a big you know intimidating yeah. intimidating exactly yeah and they just. like look at you like you're gonna have. to go around you know so several moose. like I literally like drug a string of. meals like up the hill like through the. Aspens and crashing through a bunch of.

crap just so so the Moose can stand. there on the trail. I've never seen a Yukon moose on the. hoof I would love to I haven't either. but you see these guys that kill them. and holy smokes man watch some of those. gym Shockey videos oh yeah yeah he goes. up there and they have antlers that are. size of this table yeah you just see. them when they glass them up and it. paddles on them like it's insane they're. so big it's hard to believe that they're. that much bigger but I guess that's that. bergman's rule yeah yeah sure yeah yeah.

because it's cold as [ __ ] up there yeah. and just genetics and everything else. but Moose like Colorado's starting to. get some huge moose man in my when I are. they Cyrus moved yeah they're shires but. I mean a 50-inch moose is not uncommon. you know you know oh wow yeah in the in. the areas that uh that I was guiding and. outfitting in and it was cool you know. Joe because early on when I started we. rarely saw a moose man like almost never. like if you saw a cow moose that was. like major day you know by the time I.

you know 10 years later we always saw. moose in big ones you know did you know. Adam Greentree I don't know him. personally I know of them Adam filmed a. grizzly bear in the San Juans. yeah which is which is possible man do. you know the history of the last uh. grizzly bear that they that they saw on. there no oh man I don't want to get the. dates and stuff messed up but. it was weird it and I it's just to tie. on to your story I they said they were.

extinct they weren't around and then a. bow hunter went in there I want to say. like 15 years after they said they were. extinct and he went in there and he got. mauled by one and he came out and he's. like look I just killed a grizzly bear. you're I mean I'm telling you I did and. they said no no way you didn't and they. went back in there with them and sure. enough he had I got you'd have to look. up the exact story because I'm sure I. kind of butchered it here it is in 1979. Ed Wiseman a Colorado hunting guide.

crossed paths the grizzly bear during. exhibition uh Expedition rather near the. headwaters of the Navajo River Wiseman. was attacked and mauled. what what happened uh but while he was. down he managed to fit. [ __ ] is this like what is up with this. website it's loading the picture and. it's changing oh it's just a shitty. website. um but while he was down he managed to. fatally wound the Bear by hand using an. arrow wild a [ __ ] Arrow but look man.

so there they they said they'd been. extinct for like 20 or 30 years already. and what the [ __ ] do they know here's. the thing like that kind of talk is so. wild like oh are you do are you out. there with cameras in every [ __ ] acre. of that land shut up you don't know like. you should really take the word of the. people that find these things out there. because those people are actually there. right how deep did the biologists go I. mean how often are they there how many.

boots on the ground Wildlife surveyors. do you have that are telling you exactly. what you know how many bears there are. yeah yeah how could you know yeah who. knows and I'm so cocky and like on the. on Adam's deal in the San Juans I don't. I don't know oh he filmed it yeah all. right and I've I've seen I've seen the. videos and I you know personally I I. don't know that I could say a hundred. percent either way but I do know that. people for sure who have seen them in. Northern Colorado like across the border.

or seen tracks something like that of. course I mean the neighboring states. they're next to Wyoming yeah yeah. Wyoming has them they move yeah they. move the idea that a Grizzly is not. going to move from Wyoming to Colorado. he knows this is not his Turf yeah well. dude the thing about him is they can. people don't understand they can roam. there's something that gets in you know. Bears heads where they will well not. just bears like I mean yeah cats A. Little Bighorn Ram who he's just tired. of getting the [ __ ] beat out of them. from this band of rams he's been hanging.

out all of a sudden he just starts. moving man he's just gonna go find like. a new place to live and they'll travel. like crazy distances there's a there's a. cool bear study and man I wish I knew. knew the gal's name that did it where. they collared a bunch of bears uh and it. was done I believe in New Mexico and it. was it's crazy to see how far these. Bears will move like they'll they'll go. to like where they'll go where they're. dinning. and they'll travel I want to say like. two 300 miles hit up an elk calving.

ground and then they'll go another 100. miles you know for somewhere else that. they like to hang out in the fall to hit. you know acorns or something so this. bear is doing an insane trip wow it's. wild you know so yeah it's pot it's for. sure possible of course and it's likely. it means yeah I mean I trust Adam he's. just he's so good he knows yeah I got. you like he wouldn't say like he would. just say oh my God look at that black. bear yeah yeah he would say it was a. giant black bear sure but he's like.

that's a [ __ ] grizzly bear yeah he. was filming it through his uh his his. um and he's got like that he's got his. gun out in the whole deal right oh. that's a different one okay this is one. that he filmed okay so look at the size. of that look at just look at what it. looks like sure. so this is uh I believe he's got film. footage. no it's okay so that is just uh but just. even those photos that looks exactly.

like a brown bear I mean that doesn't. look like a black bear to me yeah they. get that blonde they get that blonde. kind of kind of shine to them yeah that. looks like a [ __ ] brown bear man I. mean it could be look it could be a. massive color face Bear right right it. could be yeah yeah but the odds are not. that good yeah when they get that go I. can't remember the the term that uh that. people use for but they get that golden. kind of like blondness at the end of. their at the end of the hair and I've. seen it I've you know we used to have a. bunch of black bears in my area that. have like Mohawks you ever seen like red.

red mountains okay this is no this is. one this is 100 of grizzly bear but I. believe this was in Idaho. was that where it was or Montana started. in Colorado he's now in Montana well. that was that was because he was hunting. for 28 days straight solo but he he. actually drove to Montana and then he. had an encounter with a female by the. way he had an he he lives in.

um Australia where pistols are you know. you can't even get a [ __ ] pistol oh. so someone gave him a pistol to borrow. while he was out there what he didn't. know is that the rounds were the wrong. round for the pistol he had so his gun. was not going to work so here he is. pointing this gun thank you grizzly bear. and if you see the video it's [ __ ]. crazy yeah the Bear runs up on him. let's give her some volume.

so I drew my handgun at something that. you carry especially when you're by. yourself how about a handgun that works. [ __ ] you live in a shitty country it'll. teach you about guns over there turned. off at about 20 yards so it was just. like a bluff charge I stayed dead still. just with the pistol drawn kind of. find it actually see look at this gun. see oh yeah you see it like it's already. it's like it's jammed look how the the. front is sticking out like the slide.

yeah so look at the slide like the. entrance on the right hand side that gun. is not doing jack [ __ ] yeah. which is really funny because he doesn't. even know he had false he's a bow hunter. that is kind of funny it's funny that he. was like he's pointing a magic wand at a. grizzly bear yeah yeah be gone. well the thing is man is like uh it's. not like I mean. I've been around Grizzlies a fair amount. I've never had like a threatening type. of you know interaction with him but. I've had I've actually had like a few. little things with black bears and M.

every time I guided a black bear hunt. Joe and like I walked up to a black bear. you know with a hunter it's not like. they're not scary you know you look at. their claws and you're like well man. dude it's like oh they're [ __ ] scared. slapped you isn't it also true that more. black bears attack people to try to eat. them than Grizzlies that I think that's. like when black bears attack you in. general it's like a predatory thing. right and there's like these Grizzlies. get surprised and there's these scary.

black bear encounters or black bear. things you hear about where the Bears. are habituated like campgrounds and. stuff and they attack people in their. tense and some and I don't know that and. it is scary I was listening to it uh. somebody talked about it recently I. can't remember who it was but there's. something about when you get attacked in. a tent and they think that in general if. it's Grizzly or black bear that is more. of like a like predatory I'm gonna eat. you type of thing yes maybe because it's. at night you know I mean like they they. do some of their hunting at night also I.

think it's like a burrito yeah. you're not gonna tear it open yeah yeah. it's like it's a wrap you know yeah yeah. it's crazy it's like how is this stupid. animal stuck inside this cloth bag yeah. perfect for me to just tear through and. eat it yeah yeah because for them the. smell must be amazing it must be like. bacon in you know like with an open. window like you know that's what a. camper smells like it doesn't smell like. bacon they probably smelled fantastic.

yeah I do know that it seems to me that. most of the. um the uh the attacks from black bears. had been bears that are habituated yeah. I mean they don't make sense they're. used to people one of the ones there was. recently there was a Montana a woman who. was mauled who was killed in her tent. she was on a bike trip and she was. making her way and she had actually. chased this bear off earlier and then. she decided well he's gone and she went. to bed and he's like no I'm not sure.

back up and then he came and ate her. yeah it's scary yeah I mean I've had him. you know they uh have you ever have you. ever been around black bears when. they're when they're they kind of we. call it jacking their jaws but they Jack. their jaws it's a real it's got you you. can you know exactly even if you never. heard it before if you hear it you know. exactly what they mean yeah I mean like. you need to get get out of here what's. weird is their sound like they sound. like a monkey they they sound like an. ape yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah when they. do that it's like wow that's weird yeah. dude one I gotta tell you.

you know they do that yeah yeah very. strange it's it's wild you know it's. funny because they also make I mean the. you know a Sal will talk to their Cub. quite Cubs quite a bit too have you ever. heard that it's kind of like I don't. know what this it's almost like a like a. little mewing sound I mean I call it a. Mew like an elk Mew but it's kind of. that same tonal structure but it sounds. a little bit a little bit different and. I hadn't heard it before but you know. I'll tell you this story real quick just. kind of kind of a wild deal I was I was.

guiding a hunter and we were watching. these bears and they were they were in. oak brush they're they're basically. stripping acorns off this oak brush and. a lot of times what these black birds. will do the cells will kick their. they'll kick their cubs up in the oak. like this oak brush could be as high as. this room man you know and what will. happen is they'll kick their cubs up in. the oak brush and when you're glassing. the oak brush. you'll be looking in the oak brush and. you'll just see the little furry cub and. he'll be just hanging in the tree you.

know and then you don't see the sow. because the canopy of the oak brushes. covering her you know but you so a lot. of times when I was guiding bear hunters. I always would look for that you know. because you can't you don't you you know. obviously just from like nobody wants to. kill the mom of two little baby cubs but. it's also illegal to do that you know so. you're always looking you don't want to. make a mistake so I would always be. glass in the oak brush for for Cubs and. so we were watching this this Hillside. and I saw a couple Cubs and then I could.

see their mom kind of cruising. underneath them you know every once in a. while she'd pop out and then so we were. we were kind of paying attention or just. they're cool to watch we're watching. them and then a boar black bear came up. the hill right in front of us it may. have it was probably like 200 yard. difference or something and we watched. him in the hunter wanted to shoot him. but we didn't have a clear shot so we. just kind of kept watching them and the. Bears kind of started mingling together. yeah. and it was getting maybe the last like. 30 40 minutes of light and finally this.

bear got out and I actually remember. because he was he got a hold of like. something that had been dead forever. like and it was in the ground like an. old winter kill or something this this. board blackberry and he was just trying. to tear it up you know and he's he's. digging on it but that gave the hunter. the shot and so he shot the bear and I. saw the bear start rolling down this. Canyon and so I was like all right. you're good to go like he goes down he. lands on a tree like you know off to his. left a little bit just kind of came down. the Topography of the mountain I'm like. you're good but we should get over there.

while we got light just to maneuver. around the canyon so I get over there. and we get above the bear and not you. know it's pretty steep and I'm looking. down I see him against the tree and then. I hear a cub up in the tree like you. know up in the canopy and I'm like. what is going on like I know for a fact. that that's not you know that's how yeah. I know that's not a Sal and and but it. but it like made my heart bump like oh. [ __ ] did we make some sort of like. horrible mistake so I I Trot down there.

and I remember grabbing this Bear's back. leg and I I pick his leg up and I see. his balls and I'm like [ __ ] yeah you. know what I mean like. I don't want to make like that I feel. shitty you know I'd feel horrible so I'm. like dude okay that Cub that's up those. trees is is not you know this isn't the. mom so good deal but I'm thinking myself. like where's this Cub so I look Joe in. the same tree that this bear rolled down. into that Cub was in it he was in the.

same tree that this just random yeah. randomly man so the sound was around. there somewhere yeah dude so that's the. problem like immediately when I realized. this I start hearing that just Jaws oh. yeah so she's nearby and she's really. vocal and she's trying to call to the. Cub you know so what do you do do you. back out so I'm thinking we have to. right yeah so we got to just back up so. we get up we get we back up the hill and. we just watch you know it's like well. this is the deal and it was crazy Joe.

like literally it's felt like forever. but it couldn't have been more for more. than 30 or 40 minutes because it's. getting dark but this Cub would come. down he'd come down the tree I'd to. watch him you know get down halfway and. then he looked down he'd see the boar. and he'd go back up you know I was like. oh this is going to last forever and. finally man I wish I I wish I had the. foresight to video it but he just kept. working down as his mom was calling to. him and then right at the right like. right at the end before he came out he. he was like maybe three feet above the.

the Dead bear at the at the base of the. tree and he jumped out of the tree and. he landed on the on the dead boar bear. and he kind of just like looked around. and then he ran off to his mom like. awesome but those side those kind of. situations man anytime I got between you. know near Cubs or like where the Sal. didn't have visual to the Cubs that. would freak me out regardless if it was. Grizz or or black bear you know yeah. Mama bears don't [ __ ] around yeah that's. why yeah you know they call Mama humans.

yeah dude well they could be it can it. could be like an 80 pound black bear. yeah and you're still like man dude I. don't wanna you don't want any of that. you know no yeah my God an 80 pound dog. coming after you imagine that yeah yeah. and that's way scarier than a dog. it's so funny because like black bears. we think of as being sort of innocuous. like what are you talking about there's. a 300 pound wild Predator yeah dude and. you pick up their paws and it's like. yeah you get slapped with it oh yeah. yeah it's not good you're not doing well.

yeah do you still hunt them yeah yeah I. have it in years but uh I used to go up. to uh with uh my friends John and Jen up. in uh Alberta oh okay sure cam goes up. there every year yeah. cam hands uh it's uh they have a very. bare Rich environment up there oh by the. way up there you get wolf tags over the. counter yeah I mean that's how much of a. wolf problem they have there yeah you go. to the gas station to buy a bear tag you. pick up a wolf tag I think it's like. forty dollars sure you know.

yeah and uh you probably haven't met a. whole bunch of Canadians up there that. are huge huge Bowl fans none yeah they. don't like them at all I know it's so. interesting right go to Boulder and talk. to people about wolves like wolves are. amazing that's my spirit animal yeah but. there's just the difference between like. people who have to deal with the. negative consequence and I'm like you. man like I don't want them to be like I. love them I don't want them to be. eradicated off off the Earth but I do. realize that like they have negative.

consequences for some folks and it I. mean you have to be you have to look at. him and it's like well everybody you. know you got all these people have to. deal with the problems they don't you. know other people are voting in for them. to basically have to deal with exactly. exactly it's like someone saying defund. the police in a city they don't live in. yeah exactly yeah it's like yeah defund. the police yeah. it's like I look I don't know why people. get value out of out of that it's it's.

an enigma to me man well you know the. beautiful thing about this country is. that everyone can vote the horrible. thing about this country is that. everything everyone can vote yeah that's. right dude part of the same thing but. it's a fellow like you you understand. what you know you understand the. ecosystem you understand these animals. and you spent so much time with them. it's like those are the people that. really should be making that assessment. it's like if you want to vote on certain. things and you do not have an.

understanding of that thing that you're. voting on you really shouldn't vote on. it it's like right you know it's like. you can't if you don't have an educated. perspective on it then this is crazy. just allowing people to just guess. whether or not it'd be good to bring. back wolves and of course these these. Pro animal. animal rights groups that want these. animals and look they love these [ __ ]. animals and I get it and it's not that. they're bad people it's just they're. also misguided because people who love.

these animals aren't hunting them. they're not out there you're not you're. not entrenched in the day-to-day. existence of what it means to be a wild. animal right it means to be a predator. and a prey what it means to be an. undulit what it means to be a cat if. you've never locked eyes to eyes with a. mountain lion in the wild you don't know. what the [ __ ] you're talking about. you're just these are these are all. these like weird things that you're. picking up off of Instagram videos you. know like you have your virtue signaling. yeah yeah well and I got your I got your.

episode you did with uh there is Derek. wolf right yes yeah yeah that line was. huge man [ __ ] huge would they say it. Wade 170 plus pounds dressed you know if. if it weren't for the fact that um I I. don't know uh the the guide he was with. I don't know him personally but we're. you know we're acquainted we you know he. worked in a different part of Colorado. and he has very good reputation if they. weren't for the fact that that I knew. that he was with him I would say that.

that's that that's [ __ ] because I. never heard of a lion being 180 pounds. yeah this is uh buddy Alex. I'm sorry did I what did I say and you. didn't say oh okay yeah I'm sorry he was. here too but he was hanging out with him. oh okay you met him yeah he's very well. respected I I some of my guides work for. him and stuff he's on the cover of Bow. Hunting magazine now pull up the photo. it's um Derek Wolfe's Instagram but he's. such a [ __ ] good guy but 180 pound. Lion Man like that's that's huge yeah.

well it was he said it was 200 pounds he. said like if you take away the guts and. the blood oh that's right. 170 plus look at this now if you don't. know how big Derek is when you're in. front of Derek Derek's goddamn yeah yeah. he's a viking I mean it's like 100. Viking jeans he's enormous big guy. enormous not big so if you put me home. building up that cat it would be [ __ ]. crazy yeah yeah the cat's bigger than me. for sure it's it basically weighed what. I weigh I weigh 200 pounds so imagine a.

[ __ ] Mountain line that's 200 pounds. I saw one. in um in Utah uh a big one yeah under a. tree but it was you know I mean I. guessed like someone's like how big I. was like it looked like 170 pound cat. yeah [ __ ] huge yeah it was really big. it was me and my friend Colton they were. driving and as we were driving uh he he. stopped it was like at dusk it stops the. truck he was looking at that tree it's a.

[ __ ] cat and I look and I I catch the. eyes glowing from the low light you know. you see the light and then I put my. binos on them so I'm inside we're 30. yards away from this cat I put the bino. on him I just see this big pumpkin head. yeah this [ __ ] demon cat eyes I'm. like oh my God he's so big his forearms. were just jacked yeah yeah they were so. big it's funny you say the forearm thing. I've skinned a ton of lions and every. time I skin one Joe when you look at.

their forearm on a lion it's not like. any other it's like an arm wrestler yeah. dude it's crazy like you know how a deer. an elk if you just if you just go with. your knife and you just get through the. hide like Circle The Joint you know. maybe you Nick the tendons a little bit. I got you know most guys if they hit it. right they can just snap it right no way. with a lion man no way because they. they're like the tendons and just the. structure right here is just totally. different do you know that one line that. was living in uh California in the. Hollywood Hills yeah we have that photo.

yeah see the forearm man yeah that's. exactly right we have that photo that. exact photo we have a giant version of. it outside in the studio yeah dude that. with a collar on it that's so crazy. that's an awesome photo but it shows. that forearm thing dude so massive and. they have a dew claw they got a dew claw. down low you know like a floating. dewclaw just something to crab onto when. they're wrestling well you know what. they do with it because I've seen them. swatting at dogs with it and what they.

want to do because I I used to watch. them and I'm like what are they doing. and so what I realized is that they're. trying to hook like they want to reach. out and hook you hook the dog with that. and bring the dog to their mouth because. they want the dog in their mouth you. know that's how they get a hold of you. know they they what I notice about them. just my observation so I might be. talking in my ass a little bit but it. sure seems like if they can do it they. want to hold stuff with their mouth and. they're using their hands to bring it. you know to bring it to their that.

picture to me can you put that picture. up again that picture to me it I love. that picture and one of the reasons why. first of all it looks like it's staged. but it's just a camera trap that's way. cool and the fact that it's wearing a. collar and the fact that it's with the. Hollywood sign in the background so this. thing is in the middle of. an incredibly dense heavily populated. area and it's just murdering dogs oh.

yeah murdering dogs. I mean you know how many dogs go missing. in that area a [ __ ] load there's no deer. you can't find a goddamn deer up there. good luck sure you very rarely see deer. in the Hollywood Hills and that's why. because you have a monster you have 150. pound monster just cruising around with. Jack Popeye forearms yeah. dude they're they're lions are crazy man. the craziest thing about them to me is. that if if you're not actively hunting.

them you you don't realize how how many. are around like in all my years of. guiding man I think I've glassed up like. maybe three or four and then and then. all my other experience with them is you. know hunting them but uh I can only. imagine like the dozens and dozens that. have just been sitting up on a rock or. something as I cruise by and I never. knew about it they're stealthy yeah yeah. I saw one in um Montecito in Santa. Barbara I was driving oh that one on. someone's lawn or someone's [ __ ].

porch That's in Los Feliz oh my god. really I think it was that one they're. not sure well that that cat was sick by. the end of its life they think it had. gotten hit by a car and I think they. euthanized it that looks terrible it. looks smaller than that it does look but. it might be starving yeah. not the same day I think P22 or whatever. it was yeah it's p22s they call them I. think when he died uh he was very ill I. think they wound up euthanizing I'm.

pretty sure he got hit by a car some. something happened that really [ __ ]. him up and and kept him from being able. to hunt which is probably why he's. hitting on people's porches yeah he's. hoping they have a poodle he can eat. figure out something something easy dude. they're they're uh they're cool man I. I've uh I've personally killed a couple. of them I don't um it's funny Joe like I. love hunting them man like I love like. they're they're really fun to hunt I. don't I don't have the urge to ever kill. another one but I would love to go with.

continue what did they taste like Derek. said they tasted delicious yeah dude. they're good they're like um they're. like lean pork and they look like lean. pork that's how I would describe it I. bet you if if I uh if I fed it to you. you'd think like this is like lean pork. that maybe is like a little to tastes. like a little overcooked or something. vanilla said it's better than pork he. said yeah I I he sent me a photo of some. stuff that he cooked how was it he goes. it was superb yeah yeah that's what he. said he goes so amazing I uh.

I I the the meat man is um it's I'll. show it to you because it looks like. it it looks like pork too man no I've. definitely seen it online. um I never uh never had a chance to try. it though in person I gotta take a leak. man yeah so let's pause for a bit we'll. come back this is new hydrated Joe has a. real problem I used to be able to go. three hours we had a half an hour longer. than the other day so the other day yeah. the other day was bad but uh I've been.

uh really uh amping up my hydration yeah. I got blood work I found on those. dehydrated now I'm drinking water all. day but it's a [ __ ] problem like. before I go on stage I have to make sure. I pee before I go on stage because I'm. on stage for an hour like I can't have. to piss while I'm doing stairs all right. let's pause for a bit let's talk about. it. so while we were peeing Jamie was. Googling the new chat GPT which just got. released is it 4.0 is that what it is. I guess yes they were on 3.5 would be.

the highest I think it was and is. everybody freaking out is it scary. well they're showing and I can't I mean. uh let me see if this if I can see I can. skip ahead of something literally right. now they're doing the demonstration of. it live for everybody to see they've. just showed some of the like I'll show. you the test scores. uh uh on their website right after they. announced this this afternoon they. showed some exam scores they put it up. against against like GPT 3.5. down here it's like passing AP Calculus. which I guess the blue would have been.

gpt3 green is uh the new one some of the. ones that have passed I think oh that. was those were not as good but it did. pass like the the bar exam I believe. it's translating stuff from into. different languages now at a very high. rate thing I thought was crazy is it. understands memes. so it can read this picture it's. breaking down that it's in three panels. it tells you what's in each panel and. then what the humor is about that wow.

and there's different examples of that. um I don't know exactly scroll back up. scroll back up it says the humor come. from this image comes from the absurdity. of plugging a large outdated VGA. connector into a small modern smartphone. charging port. oh it's just yeah I mean it's not that. it's funny on its own but it's just uh. it can understand that interesting. um and then I'm waiting to find out some. of this other stuff that is in it and. this is one day right it's just one day. of chat I even saw already there's like.

a robocall company that's going to make. it so that if you get a call from a like. a scammer you hit a button on your phone. or and I'm not even sure where you hit. it it instantly creates a thousand word. lawsuit to go against them using what. they just called you with oh my God GP. 23.5 could not do that very well and. they're saying 4.0 is really good at it. already today oh my God and I don't know. how far where this goes. or what happened we're going to be. completely entangled with this world of. artificial intelligence.

crazy man is I don't want to have. anything to do with it you shouldn't. well especially considering what you. have been doing for all these years as a. as a guide and Outfitter it's like the. last thing it's like as as far removed. from that world as possible this may. sound like Soul asinine Joe but I I just. look at them like I. I already feel like I'm playing the. coolest video game right yeah like the. real video game man yeah you know like. there's there's so many different like.

outdoor stuff even beyond what I've done. like I mean over the last couple months. I've become obsessed with with tarpon. fishing and go fishing with my kids. every day and I'm like dude there's. there's like a million different little. like Outdoor Adventures that I can take. and I can learn about the gear and learn. about the skill set like I don't want to. have anything to do with the metaverse. man I'm ripping fishing must be fun. those things are but you can't eat them. right yeah you can't you can't eat them. at all I mean I I think I think you can.

smoke them recycling I think you can't. well so I I don't know uh what they. taste like or what the deals I mean. obviously you you could eat them well. it's Google why can't you eat Tarpon the. reason the main reason they're not eaten. is just because of their like their. value as a Sports Fit oh you know sport. fish that's it but what about New. Orleans because people eat Marlin yeah. but even even billfish like Marlin. sailfish and stuff a lot of the times. they don't eat them because you know. they want to re-catch them so it says.

Tarpon are rarely eaten because their. flesh is filled with small hard to clean. bones the United States the tarpon. usually is caught for sport and then. released as a bony strong smelling. saltwater fish it may be more troubled. than pleasure to eat yeah and I've heard. that they they're like very bony have. you ever seen them Joe no not in the. flesh. do you have like a like a prehistoric. look man the tarpon can be harvested. only for those Anglers that are seeking. the State of Florida record for tarpon.

fishing is it are they only in Florida. is it the only state that has them no. the Caribbean has them lots of places in. the United States and is Florida the. only state that has them in the United. States I don't. I don't think so it says a special stamp. must be acquired uh along with the. saltwater fishing license to harvest the. tarpon of any size yeah interesting so. if you want to get a trophy you have to. have a stamp in advance like imagine if. you're just tarpon fishing and you get a. world record like hey I'm not a stamp.

you have to just let it go yeah you know. most a lot of times now with fish uh. like that you know when people get them. mounted they're replicas anyways yeah. you know most Bill fish that's a weird. thing isn't it it is kind of fun I've. seen I went over a guy's house and he. had a a real trout and I was like oh. nice this is a real one yeah yeah. because there's so many like for people. that don't know like say if a guy. catches like one of my neighbors is a. big time bass fisherman and he just sent.

me I'll pull it up for you because uh. he's uh he's pretty hardcore and he just. caught this uh shout out to my friend. Alan he just caught this uh 13 pound. bass well that's huge man yeah that's. pretty nice right there oh yeah so what. he'll do is he gets all the measurements. and the photos of that and then he. brings it to a company that basically. makes him a plastic fish yeah it's like. my feeling is I would rather just have. that photo frame the picture frame that.

picture on your wall man because he's a. catch and release guy so he lets the. fish go yeah but like come on man why. you have a plastic fake fish it's like. if you had your kids instead of a photo. of your kid you had a plastic version. your kid with [ __ ] goofy fake eyes. that's so stupid well did you do that. yeah I don't know man right to be honest. I've even on uh you know uh other you. know the species we're talking about. hunting I'm kind of over Taxidermy on. that too I you saw what I yeah.

learned that from renella rinella was my. first Mentor yeah and he's like I just. do not like the the eyeballs the whole. thing the plastic it's like yeah like. when I look at a mount like a shoulder. Mount I'm looking at this thing that's. like not really the animal and sometimes. it's not even the real Cape it's someone. else's Cape yeah like because I when I. hunt a lot of people know that I don't I. use European mounts so they'll say oh.

would you like to donate your cape I'm. like sure. preserve the cape so if someone needs a. cape because like sometimes a hunter. will [ __ ] the cape up or they'll fall. down a mountain or something like that. yeah but I just don't get it it looks. it's a it's a statue that's not the. animal I shot yeah I get it like where. you're you're recreating this image in. your mind like that's what he looked. like when he's coming through the trees. but don't you have a photo in your head. yeah no I'm with you on it man and it's. crazy because I do like some of these.

taxes are us are pretty they're so good. amazing they do it's an art form of you. know they do a phenomenal job. you know I just don't wanna I just don't. want to maintain them anymore you know. what I mean like maintain them and drag. them around when I move right and then. my kids when they inherit them they're. just gonna throw them in the you know. the dump or something right right so. it's kind of that that is a weird like. some people have trophy rooms oh yeah. where the entire room is filled with.

these animals like a sheep that's on. fake rocks yeah looking around yeah. dude and I'll admit when I when when if. I go somewhere and somebody has one of. those I like walking around it with them. until they tell me all the stories about. all the Hunts I just don't want one I. just don't wanna yeah I'm not interested. in that I'm not interested in that but I. think it's kind of dope but yeah it's. just like when you're you're not a hide. guy no you don't no no bear hides or. anything yeah yeah they're just not here.

they're at my house they're actually at. my house in California. um I uh if I did ever shoot a brown bear. I'd Mount that [ __ ] oh yeah yeah. especially was a big one like a Kodiak. bear yeah yeah I would want that mounted. because that's like come on man yeah. yeah my brother's got one in his like. financial office which nowadays is like. totally like you're not not politically. correct but when you walk in there. they're gonna be they get a big interior. BC well you want it easily yeah but. fight off the bear Market yeah yeah.

that's right yeah it's uh it's. and it's very controversial but it's you. know it's controversial with people that. don't understand it yeah that's really. what it is and it's controversial with. people that don't understand ecosystems. they don't understand I mean a lot of. them eat actually eat meat this is. that's the craziest thing that the. people that don't eat meat that don't. like hunting or that excuse me that eat. meat rather and don't like hunting yeah. that's that's that's strange you know it.

is it's very strange to me and well I. think a lot of the topics we're talking. about Joe it's just a reflection of like. this distance between the reality of. being a human and the distance that. we've put in in between yeah I was. having this discussion you know you. could go. if you go behind any any fancy. Steakhouse like you go behind Gibson's. in Chicago's or in or excuse me Gibson's. in Chicago one of these like fancy. steakhouses or you know somewhere in.

Manhattan and you went if you went. through the dumpster you know you would. find like a bunch of half steaks you. know like you'd find you know three. quarters of a steak half a steak and to. me it's like it's crazy to think about. that probably a lot of people that are. eating in that restaurant. they're they're probably like against. hunting but they're willing to take you. know half a steak and throw it away yeah. I I don't know to me that seems so like. wild to think. um because it's like it's just ignorance.

I mean they're against hunting but they. don't know what it is they've never. experienced it yeah or they have this. version of it from movies yeah which is. weird because the movie version of. hunters is like from the movie Wolverine. like the hunters are always the [ __ ]. yeah he has to kick their ass yeah dude. that's still the case in like in in any. you know show that that you know a kid's. show there's a hunter shows up he's like. the dick isn't that weird that that's. the case but it's not the case with.

fishermen yeah when someone's fishing. it's always a happy thing hi fishing. just casting the fish isn't it. interesting I don't know why that is man. especially fly fishing that's a. gentleman like you never think of like a. fly fisherman being an [ __ ] what's. all catch and release that's their. argument I guess but it isn't always no. you know I mean it's only catch and. release in certain places yeah certain. The Catch and Release thing is odd I. don't really enjoy it yeah I mean I've. done it but I'm always like what are we. doing we're just [ __ ] with these fish.

we're just [ __ ] with these fish and. we're trying to get like this weird. little charge yeah out of catching them. you know it's wild man because I since I. sold my business Joe like I've been. I literally go fishing with my kids. almost every other day so are you. retired now nah well dude I don't I'm. I'm taking them some time yeah I'm. working on well I'm taking some time off. but I've actually been trying to crank. on the YouTube deal you know I didn't. really really get that you put up some.

good really good content and very. informative yeah no I appreciate it it's. really good stuff so that's kind of like. my focus and I got some ideas that I'm. gonna continue to work on on that front. but there's more coffee I know I'm good. man I'm good matter of fact I need to. work on this a little bit probably cold. as [ __ ] by now well the thing is I was I. was my wife actually warned me before. come on here she said don't drink a. bunch of coffee because you talk too. fast oh really oh that's funny she's. giving you advice that's so funny it was. good advice so I'll take it I'll take it.

from her exactly but um but anyways man. I lost my oh yeah I was telling you. informative YouTube stuff well yes I'm. the the YouTube stuff is one of my. focuses but this kind of period of time. is giving me some time to you know go. fishing I go fishing with my kids like. every other morning where are you living. these days I'm living well so I've been. I've been in Puerto Rico the last four. or five months I got a brother who lives. there so I've been I've been down there. you know working on my stuff but doing. Puerto Rico huh yeah yeah wow yeah yeah.

I've uh I know some people that live. down there it's uh uh it's a good place. to avoid taxes for some for some folks. but but it's also you know my time. Spencer Joe it actually Puerto Rico is. an interesting place like the whole like. legal structure of the place is. interesting but actually from like an. Outdoorsman perspective it has like all. this to me at least like all this. untapped stuff but the problem is I'm.

like uh I'm like that from that one. kid's cartoon like where the dog like. sees a squirrel it's like squirrel with. outdoor stuff I'm like that man so I'm. like oh Tarpon fishes and then a spear. fish inside I tend to get like you know. drawn everywhere but when I'm there I'm. like dude there's. cool outdoor stuff to go to to do there. I mean I have a home there but we were. only going to stay there a couple months. we homeschool our kids and now we've. been there for like six months you know. but anyways back to the the fishing part. of it man I didn't mean to get.

sidetracked is what's crazy with the. Catch and Release thing like my little. boy he he cannot believe that we would. release anything. like he's probably because it's not. normal yeah he's like he like yeah yeah. he looks at like your reaction to. people's his reaction too like I mean a. lot of times and we keep a lot of them. you know little Snappers and stuff they. they cook them they like to do the whole. process but he cannot believe man like. I'm like all right we got to turn this. one back and he's like. why you know what are you talking about.

Dad he's good and then he tries to. negotiate with me and he's like like. right before I put it back he'll be like. Dad can we use it for bait that's. hilarious that's hilarious well I think. it's just normal human instincts right. yeah yeah yeah it's like well we're. doing this we're doing what is the point. yeah what are we out here for you just. [ __ ] with these fish yeah which is. basically what fly fishermen are doing. right the barbless hooks they're just. out there [ __ ] with fish dude there. I've heard you talk about it on this.

podcast man they're all after that. feeling you know like there's that that. like Primal feeling yeah you go from a. fish man but if you could sneak up on. people and shoot them with a suction cup. people would do it probably yeah if you. knew you could just like I got you [ __ ]. yeah yeah no one gets hurt it's what. people like do you feel like you get. that from that like a you think do you. feel like the feeling like when a bull. comes in when you're archery hunting or. you make a good archery shot on a bull. elk do you feel like you get a similar.

feeling than you do like when you're. like a related feeling when you're. fishing and like yeah it's a very minor. version of the bull elk feeling when. you're fishing yeah and when you're. fishing you get a whoo assistant oh I. got one I got one I got one got a good. one it's fun it's very exciting I love. fishing with my kids because I love that. they can catch something and then they. can cook it and you know we can we can. eat something that they got like my. daughter caught a wahoo when we were in.

Hawaii was like one of the first time. she ever caught like a really good sized. fish she's caught like at the time this. was like quite a few years back when she. was. um I guess she was probably like five or. six she had caught like a couple of like. little Snappers and stuff like that like. deep sea fishing just dropping a line. down way low but this was the first like. really good sized fishy cut she was so. proud and so when we were eating you. know we're like thank you for catching. this she caught our dinner she's like. all you people are eating because of.

meat it was it was fun you know it's. like it's exciting yeah of course you. get that little charge out of catching a. fish but a bull elk is that times 10. times 100 times a thousand it's it's not. even Derek Wolfe said it best he was. talking about sack and Tom Brady he's. like he's not even close yeah yeah he's. like sacking Tom Brady's fun yeah don't. get me wrong yeah but it's not even. close to shooting a bull elk and I'm. like that's I'm so glad he said that. because that's how I feel about when.

people say you know they ask me a guy. you do so many exciting things you do. stand up up you host the UFC you know. all these different things you've done. in your life you used to fight what's. the most exciting I'm like bow hunting. elk is about as heart pounding yeah as. exciting as possible when you're hiding. behind a tree and you're at full draw. and you see the tips of those antlers. moving through the brush and you know. he's about to make it into the opening. yeah are you like holy [ __ ] you're at.

full draw just sitting there and then he. comes in there and then the arrow. releases and you want I use a Luminox so. you see it's nocturnal you see that. green knock just sending it right. through the Golden Triangle like oh yeah. it's the greatest feeling in the world. yeah yeah and knowing that you're gonna. eat that thing. in the smell of the [ __ ] burning wood. and the Searing mean. it's the best food in the world too I.

mean I I prefer it over everything I. mean yeah elk is my favorite I really. like Neil guy I shot a Neil Guy recently. is very good very good but. um elk is the best I think it's the best. um access is pretty goddamn good too. axis yeah have you had access yeah you. know I had it uh oh. the Maui yeah venison guys they say that. to me was it called Maui Nui not Maui. yeah was that yeah I think Maui Nui.

venison something I'm sorry if I'm. butchering it. um but uh actually Peter at T is one of. the owners of that we should probably. say the name of it right. is that what it's right is it Maui Nui. what is it that's a great system that. they have so you can buy wild actual. Wild game from Maui and it actually. helps there it is Maui Nui it actually. they've sent me a bunch of it they have. really good bone broth too but the. beautiful thing about it is that it's. they need to get rid of these they're.

it's an invasive invasive species and. they have so many of them yeah so you're. you it helps it helps everybody it helps. the environment of Maui sure and it's. fantastic food I I interviewed um I. believe his name's Jake who runs it I I. interviewed him on Jay Scott's podcast. actually and uh dude it's amazing to. hear the rundown of like the process of. how they kill them you know because they. have like a they have like um I don't. mean I don't want to get in like the the. depths of it because I'll butcher it but. if I recall you know they essentially go.

in the field and they have a mobile like. you know USDA approved system that they. they put it through it's pretty crazy. man like I talked to him about just like. the the Marksmanship component that went. into it because they have to kill them. all by hitting them in the skull cap. even though they're wild deer you know. but part of the whole the whole. Arrangement yeah instantly yeah they. have to die instantly and it's it's. pretty amazing what round are they using.

dude I want to say I want to say you. said 308. okay and so were they. um are they shooting them at night yeah. so. they shoot them at night and they use. they use thermals but my understanding. is they cannot use uh they can't use. suppressors. because because of Hawaii gun laws I. believe oh God that's so tough which is. like wild man it's so dumb yeah it. doesn't make any the suppressor thing is. so dumb it's like people watch too many. James Bond movies I know.

because there are I mean their. professors are great they protect your. [ __ ] ears yeah you know it's the. round's still just as lethal yeah and as. long as you zero it in right it's still. this is accurate I loved him I loved him. as a guide because you know muzzle. breaks became so popular in the last. like 15 years and they do they they take. out so much recoil but but man dude if. you get if you get a guy if you don't if. you forget one time to have ears ears. covered yeah buddy of mine lost his. hearing because he the the hunter threw.

the rifle up to take an offhand shot and. he was he's up by the muzzle yeah he was. off to the side of it and he lost his. hearing yeah he's hearing aids now yeah. it takes one time yeah crazy yeah it is. interesting how it works though isn't it. you know that this just having that that. compensator at the end of the rifle. barrel sure releases all the gases out. the sides and all the sound and actually. kicks less oh yeah and it takes a ton I. mean a lot of these big difference yeah. yeah particularly these like light. rifles guys are shooting on the he's you.

know up doing these Mountain hunts and. stuff I mean you can't hardly. you can't hardly shoot them accurately. over time unless you suck a bunch of The. Recoil out of them yeah because you just. get so people get so you know they just. train themselves so well yeah yeah but. you know can you get some of that out. with like good training yeah I think. like like the guy you talked to Joel. Turner yeah I think I think guys if they. really Embrace that system yeah that.

system and and go through the. nitty-gritty of it they could they can. like when you were guiding was like. archery hunting was that like the most. sketchy like hey man like let me see you. shoot you know because there's so many. people I think that pick up their bow. like two weeks before elk season yeah. and shoot it 20 yards a few times like. oh we're good yeah dude you know I mean. outside of I I don't want to just pick. on archery in this respect I mean I. think it goes for all hunting is I think.

if you're not exposed to you know I. guess you know hunting slash like death. death a lot you don't realize that uh. how messy it can get you know what I. mean and that goes for guns and and. archery equipment and uh yeah if I was. being honest. I I I would rather guide a guy with a. gun you know just because just because. the all the situations over and you know. I mean I've guided a lot I had a lot of.

guides working for me so it's a it's a. lot of numbers it's not like everyday. occurrence but you get into those. situations where something gets hurt and. I'm talking like you know you can you. can be following stuff for days you know. trying to get it killed and you know and. it's uh once you're exposed to that. enough enough you become like you just. you just want it you want everything to. be right you know what I mean and the. reality is it keeps if you've as a. hunter it keeps you from taking sketchy.

shots yeah yeah where people just hope. it works out yeah it's one thing Joel. Turner talks about it's like you should. never hope a shot works no you should be. sure like when you are releasing that. Arrow like he's so precise in his. language right when you're releasing the. narrow you you absolutely know that. Arrow's going to hit Mark yeah because. you've trained for it. the the thing about. all of it is that until you experience. it you really don't know it's it's one.

of those things where people think they. can keep it together I I kind of equate. it to like a fight because a lot of. people think like oh man if I get in a. fight don't worry about me bro I know. how to fight but the reality is like in. in an actual physical confrontation if. you don't have any experience in it. you're gonna freak out you get your. heart rate's going to go through your. heart rate is going to go through the. roots you're going to gas out almost. instantly you're gonna full Panic you're. gonna have tunnel vision. it's like you need to experience that.

just to understand what it is and to say. that you can be calm in that situation. yeah and like you were talking about the. heart the heart thump in these. situations like I mean it'll feel like. your heart's gonna blow out your chest. yeah and I I've I've guided people who. you know the you know adults you know. they're you know they seem like. competent competent guys and there's so. much pressure around a shot opportunity. or at least they're manifesting it. around them like you you know you've.

been in the mountains you've been you. know you're on a backpack you know sheep. hunt or something for six seven days and. if there's a bunch of money involved a. bunch of time involved and then the guy. gets a shot opportunity and it's there's. so much pressure and there's like at. that moment and then boom the gun goes. off and and I always the first question. I always ask because it tells me a whole. lot about you know what probably. happened I always ask a hundred how did. it feel you know that's my first. question to 100 hours because that'll. tell me a lot about you know what what's.

going on and I can several times I've. had a guy go. I wish I wouldn't have shot and I'm like. why like why did you shoot and the only. thing I can anxiety yeah it's just Panic. get it over there yeah and it's crazy. it's like dude why did you shoot well do. you ever have a conversation with them. before that about that and don't tell. them like do not shoot unless you're. ready there's going to be a thing and. you do you have to oh yeah yeah yeah. because because my deal is like and this. is a very basic way to look at it and.

I'm sure Joel would have a more. sophisticated way for people who have. time to go through the process but I. always tell guys with rifle hunting if. you don't we're the first the primary. thing you have to do is you have to get. a good rest in the mountain yeah you. know with right that's like key that's. the beauty of rifle hunting over bow. hunting yeah is that with a good rest. and if you're prone in particular like. God I'm reasonably certain I'm gonna. [ __ ] hit that animal every time yeah. and that's that's what I like in the.

discussion I have is like look first. thing we're gonna do is gonna get a good. rest and then if you cannot keep the. crosshairs within a defined vital area. that we're talking about you tell me and. we're gonna move your ass to get you a. better rest adjust your rest maybe go. from your pack back to your bipod. something like that or we're going to. get closer but please do not shoot and a. lot of some of that's practical you know. what I mean you're like I don't want to. track my ass around looking for those. those Rams now that they're hauling ass.

over you know you know it's awesome for. the experience yeah the person that. you're doing it with right but it's also. but it's also I don't want one to get. hurt in it to go you know it to become. you know a negative experience for. everybody you know the animal sheep. hunting to me is a fascinating thing. because it's these weird Rich guys that. spend so much money into people for. people that don't know I was trying to. explain this to someone the other day. and they they were incredulent they're. like what.

I go it's hundreds of thousands of. dollars yes Governor tax they'll go shut. the [ __ ] up yeah hundreds of thousands. of dollars people spend to go and just. hunt a bighorn sheep yeah. I mean my take on it you know I've. guided quite a few of the Hunts and it. so one thing about it is actually fairly. it's actually fairly small community uh. like sheep Hunters there's actually not. that many of them. um but the thing about it is as a as a. wildlife resource they're also not all.

that abundant so I think. if I was being totally honest I would. say that part of the whole you know the. whole like Chic of the whole thing is. just that it's scarce not everybody can. have a tag because you know uh uh cheap. hunt. a Rocky Mountain bighorn Hunt is not. that different than a High Country mule. deer hunt in a lot of ways you know but. this the and obviously just there's a. species difference right well the Alaska. ones are pretty wild though yeah like.

the adult the dog yeah yeah people are. literally risking their lives oh yeah. sure that's the species where people die. the most right they fall off cliffs so. it might be by volume in terms of my. experience mountain goat hunting is the. worst by far same kind of a situation. though yeah but the thing is you know. Joe mountain goats they they where the. Sheep stop mountain goats start you know. what I mean dude I cannot tell you how. many times I've sat on goats just and.

been like we're not there's no way we're. going to kill them there because there's. no way we'll get them you know what I. mean and then and then. in has actually talking to one of my. guides about a week ago about it and. he's like Cliff you know there's like. there's three times that I felt like. there was a chance of me dying in my. lifetime and two of them when I was. guiding mountain goats for you. dude it's just they they live in the. steepest [ __ ] you can imagine man yeah. and I love them dude they're cool they. are cool way they can move off on.

insanely steep uh Legends blow your mind. I just like do they they have like. flexible hooves like yeah so they have a. grip yeah their foot it's a it's wider. there they go look at them. look at this [ __ ] yeah these are. these I believe that's not I think. that's a type of a type of Ibex Ibex. yeah but same stuff look at that yeah I. mean what in the [ __ ] is happening here. like if I saw a man doing that I'd be.

like dude get down please don't do this. don't [ __ ] do it like this thing just. knows how to do it. yeah but why is it not scared of heights. like what what has genetic. yeah there's that's another book. mountain goats are beautiful dude. they're stunning they're so beautiful. that that look at that that guy's like. holding it with his face that's so crazy. that they do that yeah they literally. walk up the side of a [ __ ] that looks. like a like a damn. that one might be okay how are you doing.

what's going on just chilling over here. um see if you can find the white. mountain goats yeah there's a bunch of. people yeah they're so beautiful man. like look at that photo go back to that. photo you just had look at that photo. that's so beautiful oh yeah they're way. cool man. how delicious are they good. uh they're not my favorite game meat but. they're they're pretty good that's where. I'm out yeah yeah I'm only interested in. hunting things that I really want to eat. yeah yeah the primary a shout out.

javelina recently and I had it converted. into chorizo I was gonna try it this. morning but I got up late I never tried. it but I haven't heard great things man. well the guys at the at the ranch that. I'm at say if you turn it into chorizo. it's actually very good it's pretty good. yeah well so we're gonna find out. tomorrow because it's supposed to be my. breakfast this morning but I got up late. oh I got you yeah but no mountain goats. are I mean they're they're I wouldn't I. just they're not gonna rank up with like. elk to me you know yeah so that's why. I'm out yeah.

they run out of elk well which may. happen in Colorado yeah yeah who knows. yeah well Colorado has more more uh. excuse me more elk than I think any. other state. right yeah yeah yeah by by quite a bit. and in terms of hunting opportunity you. know because they have so much. over-the-counter stuff which is starting. to change a little bit. um it's way more than other than other. states for now yeah exactly dude. actually back.

back to what we were talking about on. that man because I I didn't I I don't. think I did a great job of explaining. myself the Yellowstone deal in that. video what I was getting at Joe is that. people don't realize that when. Yellowstone originally had a problem. with the elk they were sending all these. elk out as transplants so that was a way. to actually control the population in. Yellowstone I see and then the the. Rangers in the 60s they were actually. shooting them too they you know they. were shooting them to suppress the.

population and uh they actually uh what. happened in the early 60s they had like. massive controversy on the park and this. is all documented I'm a nerd so I've. read the history of it but. um they wanted to have a hunt on the. park to to do exactly what this video. claims the Wolves did in the 90s there. was a lot of discussion in the 60s of. having you know you know like a draw or. whatever and getting a bunch of 100 on.

the park to solve the range issue. because see what happened was they quit. transplanting the elk off of it because. everywhere you know they didn't need to. nobody wanted the elk so the elk started. to. to do some damage to the range there so. one of the pro one of the proposals was. to have a hunt on any Yellowstone you. know maybe just a temporary one Whatever. to dissipate the elk and one of the main. reasons it didn't happen is that the. park officials and then I I know there's. some uh push from Washington is they.

didn't want the elk to not be habituated. to people they in the 60s it's. documented that one of the reasons they. didn't have hunters in there is they. wanted the elk to be comfortable with. people. so to me and if people listening may not. find this interesting but to me it's. like a total bastardization of History. right it's like look you're saying that. the Wolves did what they did in. Yellowstone and yeah they probably you. know they did help because there was way. too many wolves or way too many elk.

particularly in those valleys and stuff. and they were hurting the range but. saying that that it was attempted to do. it with human intervention and it failed. as a total lie man well also there's. there's a lot of value in taking those. elk from there and like moving them to. Kentucky and Pennsylvania and all those. places where they've repopulated elk. because elk used to be in basically. every state right right which is all in. the plains and there's a lot of there's.

what do you think about that American. Prairie Reserve situation I'm not you. know I'm not super familiar with. familiar with it but my understanding is. it's basically trying to to are they are. they directly buying up a bunch of. private lands they're doing block. Management on it they're they're buying. up all this land and they they want it. converted into this watt but they're. going to allow hunting on it yeah I mean. they're going to turn into this wild. area with bison and you know Pronghorn. and everything and it's like they they.

have this design to sort of rewild that. but in a way with you know angelits yeah. I mean I think all that all that stuff. to me is a good idea as long as that re. we rewire held it and it makes sense in. in a way that you know hunters or people. can still uh utilize it you know yes I. don't think it's so weird joke because I. don't I think sometimes we forget that. um it's not like we're maybe who knows. but it's not like we're aliens like.

we're part of the ecosystem too man you. know we are and but we don't think of. ourselves as we're so far removed we're. so smart we want we want to pretend that. right we're different yeah yeah that we. shouldn't kill we won't kill every day. that's the exactly. that thing like it's taking the garbage. yeah but like everybody thinks that oh. cause Joe Rogan here's there's a picture. of him with a dead elk that somehow. that's different than somebody who. indirectly still just lives their life.

and consumes right yeah it's just. ignorance it's all it is it's like I I I. would tell those people. um hey come hunting with me but I don't. want them to. imagine if like you're at full draw and. they're like get away yeah. yeah that's a year worth of meat to me. you [ __ ] idiot not be good yeah but. it's it's just a lack of understanding. and it's so difficult to truly.

understand unless you've experienced it. you know I'm very grateful that Steve. rinella took me out the first time you. know I did it with my friend Brian Cowan. from meat eater we went mule deer. hunting yeah and it was um. so much harder than I ever thought it. was going to be and it was so much more. interesting than I thought it was going. to be and then the also there's a thing. that ignites inside of you very similar. to the fishing thing where you catch a. fish like oh there's a thing when you're. stalking an animal that your your brain.

goes oh yeah I know what this is yeah. we've done this before like this is. there's like a pathway in the mind that. exists for that like this is how you. acquire meat and there's an excitement. to it because you're going to be able to. feed your family right so when I brought. that meat back home and I was cooking it. and I fed my family with this deer that. I met that I ate well I decided that day. like I remember I was cooking with uh. ranella we were eating the mule deer. like over the fire and uh and we were.

talking about I said I'm doing this. forever yeah I'm doing this now sure. this is my new thing yeah I'm like I'm. doing and he was laughing yeah yeah he. loved it he loved it that he converted. me because Cowan never really got. converted he kind of he'll hunt with me. and Hunt occasionally but I [ __ ]. block off time yeah you got it I'm. hunting yeah and it's like that's a. primary part of my diet I eat deer meat. all the time when I did the UFC uh last. weekend when Jon Jones fought uh Daniel.

Cormier who's uh my uh he's a. commentator next to me and he's a good. friend of mine I I always would bring. him snacks because I could bring him. like there's this company called um. uh carnivore snacks and they make these. like delicious okay so I'll bring them. beef jerky and this time I brought him. deer sausage yeah and he's like man I. can't eat deer because I I ate bad deer. once and I eat deer I get sucker just. try a little piece of summer sausage. just try he's like oh [ __ ] this is good.

so he started talking about it on the. air he's like Joe's got me eating deer. sausage so in the middle of one of the. fights he's talking about like me. feeding him deer sausage sure well dude. I can tell you in my business Joe you I. mean I'm sure you know this but you're. talking about your little Inner Circle. you actually created like a mate like a. like a trend within hunting I I could so. I would have guys call me you know like. three four years ago and it would always.

be kind of the same story like their new. they're they're 35 years old and they're. into you know maybe they're Jiu Jitsu. guys or something and and just talking. to them having a conversation with them. but they want to come do their first elk. hunt and I like I like and I would. always ask like dude like what got you. into it is always you man like you. started like this Mega Trend it was kind. of like I could almost identify my. clients I was like oh yeah like I know. that those guys they probably got like. their influence or their motivation from. you so it was it's it's pretty wild to.

see you know well I feel like the more. people to get into it there's a lot of. people that don't like that they don't. like that the trailheads are full they. don't like there's a lot of people out. there wandering around but you can't. think like that you can't think of that. we those are allies you need those. people you need more people that. understand what it is right and to think. differently I think is very selfish and. very stupid and foolhardy I think you. have to think about the small amount of. people that hunt I don't even know what. it what is the percentage of uh.

Americans who hunt regularly oh that's. small yes I want to say it's three. percent I don't even think it's three. I'm I'm gonna guess it's less than three. who hunt regularly I mean I don't know. regularly yeah it's probably different. metrics that we could apply but uh it's. very small yeah and um I I do understand. here. 15 million hunting licenses were issued. U.S population that year so 4.6 percent.

yeah but you're probably right Joe I bet. you that less than half of them really. hunt regularly you know what I mean. regularly but that's still okay 4.6 of. the US population was issued a hunting. license that year. that's 20 20. I think I'm responsible. for one percent yeah I bet you are man. now I can tell you this from individuals. that started hunting that are that are. you know older than 25 and didn't have. like a father that hunted or a family. that hunted you're responsible for way.

more than one percent. but listen if those people can do it and. be successful they'll experience what. I've experienced oh yeah I know there's. also the argument like oh you know. you're wealthy you can experience things. differently you get to go places other. people can go yeah that's true so I. don't know what to tell you what do you. want to not be wealthy like shut the. [ __ ] up just stop making excuses it's. not really relevant you know what I mean. it's not relevant and also there's. plenty of opportunities for people that. aren't wealthy well that's the thing man.

if you're in the U.S on from a hunting. perspective regardless of like your. economic situation. you you got the best opportunities on. the hunting front there's nothing like. it yeah there's nothing like in the rest. of the world I mean the new zealanders. got some some great opportunities too. it's just a little bit different but. here it's like I mean it's like you said. like you know it's probably the most. economical hunting situation I think. there is in the world if you're an. American Texas is not the best Texas is.

um it's great if you have money because. there's all these private ranches but. Texas is like 90 something percent. private land right. and neighborhoods with deer yeah if. you're a jackass it's like I keep an eye. on the deer in my neighborhood the case. [ __ ] goes down oh yeah cause there's so. many of them they're [ __ ] everywhere. man they're everywhere because the. mountain lions out here are basically. like coyotes you see an outline you just. shoot it right which is interesting yeah. it's coming from California where you. you go to jail Yeah a different way they.

different where they manage them this is. better yeah do you have any interest in. hunting Lions I do yeah I'd like to eat. one of them dude they're they're uh you. talk about like the heart the the heart. thump oh yeah oh man sure when I got. into hunting them Joe like when you know. you know dogs got dogs have one treat or. in a cave or something like that and. you're and you're making your way up. there and you it'll make your heart. it'll make your heart blow out of your I. could imagine and even you know I I love. going and just taking pictures of them.

like I got a bunch of pictures on my. phone of just me me like selfies just me. being a jackass with a lion up here in. the tree you know or whatever the the uh. the thing that's interesting to me is. also the pushback on the dogs and I get. that I really do get especially as. someone who loves dogs because sometimes. the dogs die yeah. um but the fairness aspect of it is. which is interesting and that's where um. I think education is very important and. people understanding especially from. someone who's being honest and objective.

about it like I could absolutely. understand why someone would say it is. not fair to hunt mountain lions with. dogs but I will tell you that if you. want to shoot a mountain lion you're not. going to unless you use dogs yeah or. unless you hunt over a dead animal that. they've killed you could find it and. locate it if you think you're going to. stalk a mountain lion you're gonna go. find them and stalk them your odds of. success are so low right like you could.

do it for years and never see one right. yeah no that's that I mean it's just an. Effectiveness thing right the dogs are. the they in in terms of managing them. yes you have to have you have to have. dogs now I I have known a few people and. I actually would love to try it one day. and well I have tried it a few times. with without Effectiveness there are a. few people That'll Walk tracks walk. tracks out the lions like in the snow. you know they'll only they're just.

trying to find really Fresh Tracks and. then they'll walk them out and I know a. couple guys who have killed lions that. way but you know you're talking this is. that's a very small subset of yeah it's. not the best way to manage their. population right yeah yeah well that's. what's bizarre about California is they. don't manage their populations with. Hunters they bring in Mercenaries yeah. it's so crazy people don't understand. like they kill the same amount of lions. every year you know it's so foolish it's. a it's a wild thing it seems like such a. waste well first of all people let's.

let's explain it to people because of. the Pittman Robertson Act you there's a. certain percentage of hunting licenses. ammunition all that stuff is like what. is it what percentage of is it 10 I. can't remember what the tax is it goes. to Wildlife Conservation it goes to. Habitat preservation goes to taking care. like Rangers it's like it takes care of. right it's a beautiful situation it's. one of the best situations in terms of. like the way it's managed it's it's. really beautiful if you have a state.

like California that doesn't allow. mountain lion hunting you go oh well. that's good we need to preserve the. mountain lion population incorrect they. kill the same amount of mountain lions. right they killed them though with. mercenaries so they bring in some guy. who's a mountain lion hunter and he uses. dogs and he finds these mountain lions. that are troubled mountain lions and. they wind up killing the same number of. them yeah yeah but now the state pays. this guy to go do it instead of you. paying the state right so instead of the.

Pittman Robertson act applying where you. know all this money now out where all. these people apply for tags all these. people get tags they go mountain lion. hunting and that all that goes towards. conservation yeah so you're talking. about the direct tag Revenue yeah in. Pittman Pitt and Robertson is the tax on. like uh guns yeah guns but all that. stuff yeah all that stuff goes in and. that's and it's and it's crazy like and. the thing is this has come up in this. wolf thing in Colorado a ton like I've. seen public comment public comments well.

well we don't we need to have if there. is ever lethal control it needs to be. done by like professionals right. hilarious and it's like what are you. talking about yeah like who are these. professionals are you gonna yeah by the. way are there any yeah what have they. been doing all these years that's Pro. wolf Hunters where you can't hunt wolves. that's the thing that's so funny I. guarantee you that the the guys doing. the lion the lion you know dealing with. you know lions that are trouble in.

California they're hounds guys they're. just they're guys that grew up lion. hunting yeah and they're like well I'm. just obsessed with this the only way I. can do it is if I'm working for the. state I know a guy does it yeah and I'm. sure he's a he's just like in the line. and here's what's the [ __ ] up part. when there was a recent thing in uh the. bay area where they did an analysis of. the contents of their stomach yeah it's. 50 domestic pets yeah it doesn't. surprise me once they figure it out half. of their diet is your dog I I talked to.

you know I talked to a guy well his I. talked to a guy's son who was involved. in a very long-term study of lions and. what he and he was a hounds man and he. followed like the same Toms year after. year Tom's just a male the term for a. male uh lion and what they found is that. what what he found and observed is what. whatever that Lion's mom taught him to. kill is usually what they would focus on. so in it which is wild to think about. and I think some of these you know when.

lions are pushed up against human. populations their mom moms start to it's. like passed down generationally like. we're gonna kill pets or whatever but as. it applies to you know in more normal. situations he told me that that he would. follow a Tom that they treat and call. her like year after year and that Tom. would only kill bull elk like he would. he would walk through you know tons of. mule deer and only kill bull elk like. just kill after kill you know for years.

would just be a Bullock and he might you. know whatever and then there'd be weird. ones he said like they'd be fallen lions. and they'd find a uh you know a cat that. only killed coyotes you know or you know. and maybe maybe made some exceptions. sometimes but generally knew how to kill. it and you know they'd figure that out. kind of makes sense though yeah yeah. they're just Mom just shows him shows. him the deal because man they're they're. moms I mean I have pictures from from. outfitting from cameras and and stuff. like that where you'd see these uh.

female lions with two kittens and if I. showed them to your like dude that's not. that's not those aren't baby lions it's. like a proud amount a pride of mountain. lions because they keep them with them. you know they keep they keep their. kittens with them for a couple years. sometimes where they're big wow so I. think they learn from their mom or. whatever but dude they're fascinating. they're amazing freaking cool man I feel. the same way I feel about wolves I'm so. glad they exist oh yeah but I don't want. to be surrounded by them yeah. well dude and the thing is is like I I.

get what a lot of people are gonna say. about the Wolves saying they're like and. be like well Cliff Joe you guys are. being dicks because really what you want. is you just want more animals to hunt. and you want to suppress the wolf. population because of that and yeah part. of it is that at least talk speaking for. myself part of it is yeah every Hunter. would say that yeah party want more. opportunities you know but there's the. other point the other point too man that. that you said Joe with just if you're. being rational about the economics and. you just and you assume like take. Colorado you just assume hey.

this ecosystem there's a lot of people. living here there's a lot of you know. other activities that affect the. ecosystem we have to have a rational you. know economic approach of how we're. going to take care of these animals and. manage them the wolf deal like I just. did the rough math in my brain and you. take a wolf and a wolf's gonna kill 10. to I think it's like I think the. estimate's like 12 to 18 out per per. wolf per year right and so I was doing. the math like your elk hunting in.

Colorado is basically the success rate. on most the units is you know 10 to 15. it's fairly low it's tough you know in. these in the in in there I call them. over-the-counter units and just so your. listeners know that just means you can. go buy a tag you don't have to put yeah. you just go to a sport yeah good store. it's not ration just put attack so. anyways you got 15 you got uh 15 success. rate so that means if one wolf. just what he eats per year he's going to. kill 15 elk that takes a hundred tags.

that they can't sell right because if. you if you calculate in this you know. the success rate right so 100 tags I. mean I'm guessing roughly you know Joe. like the the state's getting probably. 300 bucks a tag right between like you. know non-residents pay more than. residents whatever but it's like 300. bucks a tag that means that that wolf is. eating 30 grand a year worth of State. worth of CPW right one wolf yeah you.

know and that it's wild man it's wildest. thing about it that way about Revenue. you know but it's also to think the. thing that gets me more than that even. is the domestic animals. is cattle cheap oh the lifestyle these. people that are that are running. livestock like they're [ __ ] yeah well. you're gonna you're gonna have to deal. with a whole new situation yeah it's. going to be a massive pain in their ass. now they are they are going to get.

compensated you know they will get. compensated uh to the extent that they. can prove it and there's a whole system. that's being worked out so they'll get. compensated for you know livestock that. is killed by wolves right photo. Jamie see if you can find. um. that photo that I put up on Instagram. when I was hunting with my friend Mike. hawkridge and Ben O'Brien up in BC. where these wolves we had uh found this.

moose calf. right after these wolves had torn into. shreds yeah and it was it was amazing. because there was hair everywhere oh. yeah that was the thing that I didn't. anticipate I was like oh wow this is. weird yeah it's [ __ ] hair everywhere. I thought you'd just see like bones and. the they would chew the meat off oh yeah. yeah I was like oh I didn't even think. about that they tear like Tufts of it. off yeah yeah oh yeah and it's just like. just hair scattered everywhere and then.

these bones that were just stripped yeah. oh yeah and we had gotten there just. very shortly after it had happened maybe. you know maybe it happened the morning. of yeah or the night before yeah and. they just get after and just clean it. and they do that every [ __ ] day yeah. man every day they're constantly doing. and they love it yeah and it's exciting. and they're [ __ ] mean to each other. too that's the other thing all you Tree. Huggers you have to know you need to. watch what they do to the beta males oh.

yeah yeah they tear them up party a. rough rough existence being a guy down. the totem pole a little bit in one of. those packs yeah you're starving Plus. getting that your ass kicked every time. they're [ __ ] tearing apart your. hamstrings yeah it's like they're. ruthless animals man that's a literal. doggy dog world survivors man but. imagine how good they get at it and you. know they they have all these they have. these tactics and stuff I don't know how. much how much of it's true or proven but. I've been with guys in British Columbia.

did they say they use the roads the. Wolves use the roads to kill moose you. know like they'll because you know you. get in areas in British Columbia that. used to be real remote and then they put. in logging and they're logging you know. there's a bunch of logging. infrastructure yeah and in the Snowman. no can't find it I want to say it's from. who else was it were you with sorry Mike. well it's Mike Hawk ridge's uh. outfitting. shout out to Mike. um in British Columbia that was the. first time and actually the only time.

I've ever hunted moose. that's uh that's a cool picture right. there yeah. eat what you kill yeah. the Moose yeah oh yeah that's the moose. that yeah that's um that's. um but there's a. um an image of the. that was on my Instagram of the the. Moose calf that we found just covered in. hair it's pretty [ __ ] cool yeah I. could probably find it on my phone if we.

can't find it. but it's I know what you're talking. about though where they get the the it I. we're like the Tufts of hair everywhere. it's just you just don't until you see. it you're like oh this is happening. constantly yeah like they're just a. cleanup crew just burning through the. forest trying to find these animals like. scanning oh yeah there's one let's move. circle around you guys get in front. we'll get to the side yeah cut them off. well that's what I was talking about so. and I don't know for sure this is proven.

or true or whatever but the guys say. that the tracks are like this these. wolves will get on the Logging Road and. like the main pack will work the Logging. Road because it's easier in the snow you. know there's no you know downfall and. stuff so they'll work the road and then. they'll basically cycle a couple wolves. off the road you know often to you know. they'll go out into the trees and try to. pick up you know moose or whatever out. there and then and then that wolf will. get tired and he'll come back to the. Logging Road and another one will go out. yeah pretty wild huh I wonder how they.

coordinate that and I wonder how they. pick who does what yeah probably. instinct or I you know I don't know like. because they're they're dogs they're not. like you know they're not capable of. like communicating with each other I. wonder if they're communicating with. pheromones or something maybe there's. some way that we don't understand where. they just. it could be just instincts bred off of. doing that so many times yeah just an. unspoken language what's crazy Smith. fish do it too like you're talking about. Tarpon you know they do the same thing.

like you you'll see them they'll they'll. get around mullet and they hurt them up. you know into into a bait ball and I. even notice in like marinas and stuff. they'll they'll herd bait like back in a. corner you know like you see them in. Marinas which is crazy these yeah you. ever seen the there's uh videos of. people dunking their hand in the water. yeah. they're getting habituated defeating so. so they'll come they'll come to like. filet tables where they're fed or you.

know places where they where they get. they get fed you know that's so crazy. yeah but huge Tarpon oh yeah biting. people's arms yeah yeah pretty wild. it's nuts man but they do the same thing. like those those tactics and you know. what I've learned to do yeah I mean I'm. gonna sound like a total dork here uh. but I've gotten really into throwing a. cast net to catch bait okay you know. yeah like this is like I I guess that's. cool I get infatuated with these things. so me and my little boy like every. morning at Sunrise like we're gonna go.

catch bait to go fishing you know so. what you realize is you I get up at I. call them like my little glass endpoints. but they're literally like I mean my. house is in a country club there dude so. I'm like cruising down on my golf cart. with my cast man like I'm the only guy. in the country club that does this kind. of [ __ ] you know but anyways. um if you go to my little like little. glass spots where we can look you know. down the marina we can we can look on. the ocean for birds or whatever working. bait but a lot of times how we find the. bait is you can see the tarpon like kind.

of pushing them around you know really. yeah well and then they'll get them. again see look they'll get that bait. like over on the side somewhere where I. can throw a net on it yeah you know. because if it's out there it's dispersed. like I'm uh you know it's hard for me to. net it but I went fishing in Mexico once. and uh there was uh I think they were. jack crevalle that were they had like. this swarm of them yeah that were uh. attacking Bait fish and I'm telling you. it was like half a football field yeah. he just cast into there and immediately.

yeah but they but they had the bait like. balled up yeah yeah yeah yeah. they think they ball the bait up and. they just yeah they just whack them yeah. yeah you just cast into that chaos oh. yeah and you were pulling fish out yeah. yeah yeah no it is it's cool how I I. guess I didn't mean to get off uh track. Joe but I don't how are they. communicating me right because like they. are right yeah you know but I maybe it. has to you see the you know the bait. fish do that too like they're somehow.

known to turn and yeah well that's like. birds yeah like how are they doing that. we don't we don't really understand how. they don't slam into each other yeah. like people bumping each other in the. street right like how do birds flying in. the sky yeah yeah without any verbal. communication amazing it's so. fascinating it's like. what we don't know about nature could. fill volumes yeah dude that's that's why. that's why I have no interest in the. miniverse ah well you're not alone.

apparently it's uh. dim really sell. I thought that was an interesting moment. in you know technological history. because you know when you got a guy. who's as influential as Mark Zuckerberg. and with a giant company like Facebook. they literally changed their name to. meta yeah and then. pump these Oculus headsets out and like. this is the next level thing and you. know Mark came here and he gave us a. demonstration this stuff we did some. things like we did a fencing game and oh.

they're amazing amazing yeah amazing you. know what's the most incredible dude is. the boxing game okay boxing games are so. fun it's a great workout yeah because. you put the headphones on it you know. that the the headset rather the headset. is Wireless right so it's just the thing. that sets up to your head and then you. have these things in your hand this is. the Oculus yeah so you start the game. and you you're you're in there with a. guy and you hit them and you're like you. see his face snaps back sure and he hits.

you and you see like a white flash it's. crazy and it's a really good workout oh. yeah it's really good workout and you. can actually work on your skills you can. actually oh it applies it is yeah okay I. mean you're not hitting anything so it's. not like hitting a bag or hitting a. minute yeah but it's you're bobbing and. weaving you're seeing punches coming. your away You're shifting and then. countering there's all the stuff that. you do that is fantastic for cardio it's. all right and it's fun it's like you're. playing a game but like we had it at the.

old studio and I I did a couple of. rounds like dude I am exhausted and more. importantly like my feet hurt it was. like oh yeah sure because oh yeah you're. flexing in your toes in a weird way. because we were doing it on concrete you. know sure it's like this is wild this is. a great workout I've played the uh um. the climbing game have you played it no. dude the climbing game when you fall so. you're you're doing all these crazy like. Yosemite climbs or whatever with the. thing my brother has that game when you.

fall it's like oh. oh my God [ __ ] that you should do it man. it'll take your breath away like oh well. they had one that we did where you're. walking across a balance beam oh it's. getting two buildings probably similar. yeah yeah yeah yeah. yeah I mean but yeah the regular wild is. way more interesting yeah man there's. just as much Adventure out there but you. have to be willing to actually go there. whereas you can just [ __ ] put that.

headset on and all of a sudden you're on. the mountain what do you think what do. you think I always contemplate this man. like what do you think stops people from. from doing it like just going yeah time. lack of understanding no mentors you. know just don't have the opportunity. sure then I think I think hunting in. particular is like that too man like the. the learning curve is I don't think. steep's like the right term it's just. intimidating you know with all the. regulations and all that stuff it's hard.

for I think it's deep. oh yeah Steep and and then there's also. like understanding the wind like oh yeah. there's so many things that aren't. intuitive. um uh like where do you start in terms. of like buying glass yeah like I mean. how many [ __ ] podcasts are there like. Aaron Snyder has like five of them yeah. we're just breaking down the difference. in the glass quality on binos edge to. edge detection and like [ __ ] sure man. dude in in the in the technology and. hunting in like just the whole the whole.

gear component of hunting has grown so. much in it in a positive way in the. sense that you know gear to go out and. do a backpack hunt or something like. that and you know pretty rough. conditions where it's cold at night and. all that so much easier now there's. lightweight tan oh yeah there's great. layers like this stuff's phenomenal. phenomenal but at the same time there's. part of me and I and I. I guess for some reason this kind of. theme has come out in my YouTube channel. I think the whole gear infatuation about.

it it kind of it it intimidates people. and it shouldn't like I hate that to be. a barrier right like you don't need to. spend thousands of dollars you know or. you know or more than that to go on your. first elk hunt right you know what I. mean you can go do it it might not be. quite as comfortable or whatever but uh. you don't have to have all the stuff I. think what's one of the most. intimidating thing is getting into. archery oh yeah because like yeah you. can't just buy a bow and practice like.

you have to go get it sized you have to. put the peep in the right place right. you have to get arrows that match the. bow you have to get a scale that matches. the rest that matches the site like all. of that is crazy like how do you do that. on your own oh just run Archer's. Advantage software like what yeah what. are you talking about like how many. grains are your arrows I don't [ __ ]. know yeah like imagine the average. person just with zero so. help yeah. not everywhere has a like a like here in.

Texas you guys are spoiled because you. got good archery shops oh we have a. great one in Austin shout out to Archery. Country it's [ __ ] phenomenal like guy. like folks in there that know what. they're doing I used to send my [ __ ] up. to the bow rack okay you know uh in in. Oregon Springfield Oregon yeah because. it's like such a good place and that's. where Cam's from I was like well they'll. just send my bow there and they'll send. it to me it was easy and they get you. set yeah or Dudley I would send it to. Dudley and Dudley would take care of. stuff yeah it's like it's for the.

average person like that's not an option. so what do you do it's like you have to. go somewhere they have to measure your. draw length you have to find out what. the p-pight is. you know and then you have to practice. and so you need a place to practice and. a lot of people live in apartments so. how the [ __ ] am I going to practice. right yeah like where do you go there's. a lot a lot yeah I mean I guess that's. um that answers the question Joe is like. it's you almost have to in a lot of ways. if you get really into it you almost. have to like shift your lifestyle yeah. you know what I mean why most certainly.

change my lifestyle. when I got into it I I just decided like. that was going to be something I'm doing. every year yeah so okay now I have this. new thing that is. but for me it's an amazing reset like. there's my life is filled with so much. pressure and stress of a different. variety that's odd that that's the most. pressure the most stress but it's also. the most relaxing yeah and the most it. is like just being in the woods no cell.

phone service no nothing just stalking. and and just hiking the Mounds and also. knowing that I have to be an amazing. cardio shape sure like when I'm working. out in [ __ ]. February I'm literally thinking while. I'm working on February the more I push. the less tired I'm going to be in. September yeah sure it's crazy yeah no. that's cool man it I mean it's cool and. like you know a hobby basically can. change change somebody's life you know.

what I mean yeah obsess with it and and. there's other things that that do that I. think it enriches your life I really do. because I think uh complex. difficult things that are very rewarding. and I don't think I don't think there's. very many things that are as rewarding. as hunting because you're actually. getting food from it and actually feed. family and friends and you feed yourself. and it's so nutritious and so much. better for you than any other kind of. food that I think that it's it's one of. the most rewarding difficult things and.

I think the more difficult things that a. person does on purpose that are. rewarding you know I'm not talking about. like life struggle I'm talking like. choosing to do things whether it's. workouts or tasks or problems you're. trying to solve on purpose those are. very valuable to your overall resiliency. as a person right and I think that that. is uh something that I've really gotten. from hunting sure like every time you do. another one it becomes easier to take. yes and there's lessons that I learn.

from each individual hunt you know. there's things like uh as I went hunting. with ronella a couple months ago and. it's the first time that I'd ever. rattled in Bucks which was wild yeah we. were in South Texas sure and literally. we would set up and he would start clock. clock. and also you hear some sound and you've. got to get the full draw like right away. because these [ __ ] are just running. in yeah because you're rattling in thick. cover yes South Texas.

yeah so it was uh very exciting dude. I've never done it but I I've I know. some folks that have really got into. rattling oh my God in but more in Open. Country like you know where they can see. a little bit and you see like Whitetail. coming from you know way far away yeah. you guys rifle it's crazy how well it. works at the right time like when when. they're down to [ __ ] yeah it's like it's. going down yeah like that's you're just. catching them when they think that.

there's a brawl going down over some. ladies yeah it's like oh it must be some. hot ladies in that area so they just. start running isn't it funny and I don't. know why this is but I don't think I'm. the anomaly here isn't it funny how. there's like there's kind of an there's. kind of enjoyment in manipulating them. oh yeah yeah I don't like with elk it's. the same way oh it's the best you know I. mean I used to do a fair amount of. that's it you found it oh yeah he found. it 14. okay yeah that makes sense yeah. so that was back when I was still rifle.

hunting. oh yeah look at that look at all the. hair all that stuff on the ground is. hair. which for people uh at home this is uh. November 11 2014. and it was just hair everywhere and that. was a moose calf that they'd got and. they just tear it up you know look at. that like everything's gone the tongue's. gone the esophagus is gone all the. organs are gone the rib cage still. stands but all the organs have been. eaten out of it. I mean all the skin off of all the the.

the you know the hindquarters is gone. except for the lower lower parts. it's funny man because they're they're. kind of a. shout out to my cockroach yeah my man uh. dogs or uh you know coyots are kind of. like that too they're kind of dirty. eaters but but Lions man they're like. tidy you know because they they don't. you know they they'll store their kills. you know it's kind of wild have you ever. seen a lion kill where one's got piled. up or whatever I'm sure I got some.

pictures on my phone but it's pretty. it's pretty neat like how they'll cover. it up and it'll be tidy and they'll come. back you know come back and they'll peel. it back and you know I don't think. hunting's for everybody but I think it's. for a lot of people. you know I just think they don't know it. yeah dude I agree yeah yeah yeah but I. mean believe me one of the things about. Texas there's a lot of opportunities for. invasive pigs and uh my friend Jesse. Griffis who is the the head chef and.

owner of die do a restaurant okay in um. in Texas he what is it uh he has an. organization that. uh trains people teaches people how to. hunt takes them out hunting shows them. how to hunt how to. um butcher the pig what is it called. of traditional traditional New School of. traditional cookery yeah this is. Jessie's the best and Jesse is an. amazing Chef if you're ever in Austin. die do a restaurant is the [ __ ] [ __ ].

I love going there I go there all the. time oh can he has like a little school. yes and he's doing it with uh with wild. yes click on that full bore just so you. can see some of it we don't have to play. the the music the the volume rather but. this is so this is his restaurant and so. in in the restaurant he's actually uh. prepping some of these uh wild boars and. showing people how to cook it and he was. with us in South Texas by the way okay.

he cooked for us while we're there he. was hunting ducks and he cooked some. ducks oh yeah I saw like something on. Instagram yeah yeah yeah I put it up on. Instagram where he was so he teaches. people how to uh how to hunt how to how. to you know how to shoot these animals. where to hit them like the whole deal he. takes them through this whole whole. process and you know he does a very. small group of people at a time shows. them how to make sausage.

yeah and I'm telling you man his his. cooking is so good he took diver ducks. and made the most delicious [ __ ] you've. ever had in your life oh nice you know. most most people call it diver duck [ __ ]. Ducks oh they were so good though the. way he cooked it but as you can see in. here he really knows what he's doing and. it was it was it was just such a treat. to have that guy cook for us while we're. down there it was it was amazing yeah. well man in cooking cooking game it. matters so much oh yeah there's so many. species that people have told me like oh.

dude you can't eat those and then if the. right guy Cooks he's like yeah that's. why I'm looking for this this javelina. chorizo yeah yeah but tomorrow morning. well Cliff thank you very much for being. here man I'm glad we did this I was. thinking about doing this for a while so. I'm glad we got dude I I. forever grateful for having me on man my. pleasure my pleasure to tell everybody. what your Instagram is so they can find. you or whatever social media you use. your YouTube page as well yes so yeah my. my gry it's Cliff gray but it's Cliff. g-r-y yeah don't ask me why why don't.

you have an egg. because the other Cliff gray already got. it okay so you're cliff g-r-y on. Instagram yep and then your YouTube. channel is uh oh you have Pursuit with. cliff.com yeah so Pursuit with cliff.com. I got a newsletter and that sort of. thing people can go on that website and. sign up and then my YouTube is just my. name Cliff gray all right and so that's. easy to find too beautiful but uh yeah I. look forward to you know follow along. thanks for having me on my pleasure.

brother very very fun all right bye. everybody. [Music]. [Applause]. [Music]. laughs.