Joe Rogan Experience #1546 - Evan Hafer & Mat Best

Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY. NIGHT. ALL DAY. HELLO, GENTLEMEN. We're rolling. We're rolling. Holy [ __ ]. Evan and Matt. Well, I've known you guys. for a long time and I've enjoyed your. coffee for a long time. So, I'm happy. you guys could come on here and talk. some [ __ ] Appreciate it, man. I love it. I love being on shows. with Matt, especially with you. This is. [ __ ] incredible, dude. Your ridiculous setup that you put.

in the kitchen with all the the coffee. and the espresso. I videotaped it so. people could see, but the measuring of. the weight of the grams of the espresso. when I know you got into it be you were. into coffee before you were in the. military, right? Yeah. And then you started bringing. coffee and a roaster and a whole setup. with you overseas. But like were you. this like measuring it and the the exact. temperature of the water and all that. jazz? Oh yeah. I I think like way back in late.

90s I guess is probably where it all. began. And I always say this where you. know every good story starts with a with. a with a good chick basically. and I met. this barista back in the late 90s and. she turned me on to espresso. So I. started really going down the rabbit. hole on coffee. So she was just like really into. espresso. She wasn't she was just she was hot and. she was she was a barista. So but that.

was the the the gateway to this entire. thing. And uh then as I continued to. kind of evolve my my coffee nerd, you. know, sense of me, I I uh I I kind of. was like, well, you know what? This. Green Beret thing sounds pretty cool. I. would love to be able to do that. Jump. out of planes, maybe overthrow some. countries. That's that sounds pretty. rad. Um but it never left. And so I was. still way into coffee. I was roasting.

coffee on fires and on my stove and. getting a different weird espresso. machines. And the funny thing is back in. when I was an SF guy, people would make. fun of me all the time. Like, you. hipster douchebag. What are you doing? If we weren't together, I would have. made fun of you a lot. Be like, "Sweet. 30 minutes to make a cup of coffee. What. are you [ __ ] doing? What are you doing?". Well, that's why it's a funny contrast. between this badass special forces guy. and someone who's like really meticulous. with their coffee. No cream, don't you.

dare. You mean Jack Carr kind of makes. fun of it in his books where he talks. about like putting honey in his black. rifle coffee and half of it is just to. kind of mock the fact that people who. really love coffee won't put anything in. it. It's a travesty. They won't. And Jack is one of my. friends. So when he when he came out to. the house, he was doing research for his. book. I was making him a cup of coffee. and he was like, "Dude, this is [ __ ]. insane. Like how long is this going to. take? I was I was like, man, it it takes. as long as it takes. So that entire.

setup that we just put in your studio, I. had that in my coffee lab in my house, that entire thing. Wow. And I'm out here and I was roasting. coffee on my stove and going going way. down the rabbit hole with with Jack and. he's taking notes, you know, for his. book and and he's a former SEAL, you. know, so we're talking [ __ ] and he's. like, "You must have just been picked on. in the teams, right?" And I was like, "Yeah, maybe. Yeah, I guess." That's. why, you know, I was like, if you just. have to run fast, because if if you're.

going to do something weird like this, you got to be able to run really fast, do a lot of [ __ ] pull-ups and. push-ups, and shoot really well. I think. that was one of the things where I was. like, man, I got to be really good at. all these things because it's got to. offset all my debaggery over here. with coffee. We have to respect you even though. you're so balls deep in a coffee. He It's an interesting story. He uh when. we both had similar professions. postmilitary as contractors and I was in. this FOB and I'm sitting there I'm like.

why the [ __ ] is there this like $50,000. espresso machine for a very small base. in the middle of nowhere? Well, come to. find three hour 3 years later I'm. chatting with Ev and I'm like yeah dude. I don't know the agency bought some. stupid ass espresso. He's like yep that. that was me. I could put So he convinced. the supplier Etsio or whoever to officer. to buy this super intricate freaking. espresso machine in the middle of. nowhere. I'm like, "Of course it was. you. Of course it was you.". Yeah. I So I And that's the exactly so. the entire story. So I'm working at the. agency then. So fast forward a few years.

later and my the the the logistics. person came to me and he or she was. like, "Hey, what what kind of espresso. machine or coffee machine should we. buy?" And I was like, "Oh, don't worry. I'll send you the links to it." And it. was like $30,000 espresso machine from. from I imported it from Italy and had it. flown in through some other logistics. situation. And she's like, "So this is. it?" I'm like, "Yeah, but we still need. a grinder, too, right?" And uh that was.

something that kind of lived in in not. only like infamy that I'd gotten the the. entire logistic system to buy me this. espresso machine from. there. There was no oversight. like no. one was like looking at the accounts and. going what the [ __ ] is. contrary to popular belief you know. congressional oversight and budgets at. times is a little bit hazy when you're. in war they just kind of say here's lump. sum you know here you go here's. here's $23 million as long as you can. justify it maybe we'll be okay uh.

well you know how the government works. too at the end of a fiscal year they're. like we've got some money to spend or we. don't get this budget next year. and honestly in Iraq early on it it was. like a a dumpster fire with cash. Just. the tax dollars that were just burnt in. that place on just dumb [ __ ] You. couldn't even imagine if when I look. back on it now as a guy that's very. vested in what's happening to my tax. dollars. I'm like, what the [ __ ] were. these idiots doing? Like, this is so. dumb. This is so dumb.

Like, what was besides espresso. machines? What was the other ridiculous. [ __ ] that the money was being spent on? Oh, well, I here's a great example. So, uh, and I've got a myriad of them, but, uh, we had a field of uparmored vehicles. that were really [ __ ] expensive, like. $500,000. a pop, give or take. We couldn't take. them anywhere because. they were so obvious that it was a. uparmored vehicle that you just drive.

around and people would want to take pot. shots at at you for the fun of it. So. you have these beautiful half a million. to a million dollar cars that you can't. use. So you got to go when when we're. working in the low viz capacity means. like you're just trying to blend in. Just not get shot, man. Like don't pick. a fight. Like let's just blend in, do. our job, get the [ __ ] out of here. But. if you have a really expensive looking. like G5 or something that's just really. a G5 in the middle of [ __ ] Baghdad in. a war zone, people are going to want to. take pressure washed and all that.

Mercedes that big Mercedes Wagon. Yeah, a Gwag G Wagons like a bulletproof. Gwagon. Really? Yeah, dude. A G Wagon. All of this stuff is uparmored. So when. you look at this, like any vehicle you. want, you can get a level of armor to. it. But if you buy the most ridiculous. and expensive vehicle in the middle of. [ __ ] wartorrm country X, you're going. to stick out like a sore thumb. And the. whole intent of the mission is to blend. in. So to my point, you'll have fields.

of [ __ ] that you can't use because some. dumbass is pulling the trigger on your. government tax dollars going, "This. looks good to me. Might as well just see. how that looks.". Yeah. Yeah. Why don't they take like an old Chevy. Blazer and then retrofit it? Well, there's that, too. You can do. that. Do they do that? Oh, yeah. You can when you look go down. the go down the rabbit hole in armored. vehicles, and it obviously you probably. wouldn't, but if if you wanted an. armored vehicle of any kind, you can get.

it. Now, there are there are different. armored vehicles from different. companies. So, for instance, Mercedes. builds their armored vehicle from ground. up. It's It's one of the the best, if. not the best armored vehicle in the. world. Uh it's built from ground up. Jamie has it right there. Yeah. Yeah. The G-Class originally was a military. vehicle. Yeah. That's why it's so durable. Like my wife. has one of those. It's like the the door. is like [ __ ] kachunk. It's not like. any other car. It's so thick. Like the.

gauge steel. They don't they don't make. cars like it. No. and that that it's so boxy and it's. got such good angles to it that I think. that it really fits well because there. is they look [ __ ] incredible. Do you remember the weight on like a. level seven? Like how those things are. so [ __ ] heavy. It it it offset the gravity of the. earth. It was so [ __ ] heavy. Like. those things are so heavy and so. topheavy. It that was the other issue. too. You're not going anywhere fast in. those things. So if you need to get.

It's armored up, right? So you must have. like steel plates at the bottom of it. It's all built from ground up. So, it's. not as if you have a steel plate that. you can remove or something or that's. been retro welded in. It's built on the. factory line, right? For it to be an armored vehicle. So, all. this. Do they make them for military guys or. do they make them for like dictators? No, they make them for for. for really rich pricks. or dictator X or military or whoever it. is. who doesn't want to get blown up. Yeah. And you can take I think it's.

something like uh three rounds of AK-47. So 762 by 39 and a 3in square. and that's through the entire vehicle. So when you're getting when you're. getting lit up in one of those it's it's. a one it's a it's an interesting. experience that you're never going to. forget. Uh and then two you're feeling. pretty good especially if they're. shooting at you with AK or just like. whatever I'm going to have a snack. You. guys keep doing whatever you're doing. Have you been inside one while it's. under attack? Oh gosh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

What is it? What is it like? Just tink. dink tink tink tink. Yeah. Some tinks. Um and obviously, you. know, your your job is not to stick. around and kind of absorb the rounds, but uh the the a level seven is what. it's called. And so when you're an 111. armored vehicle that's getting shot at. by either 762 by 39 or, you know, increase the the caliber of of rifle or. beltfed, it will absorb a certain amount. of rounds. Sometimes it'll be loud and.

sometimes it'll be really muted and. quiet depending on just. where it strikes. Yeah. Where it strikes, how it strikes. So if it's striking at an angle, if it's. perpendicular to the round, where is it. hitting? Uh you know, so how close are. you to the shooter? uh how perpendicular. you are to the round. How big is the. round? So, it'll kind of it'll sound. different depending on where you're at. And you can kind of gauge like where's. that coming from? How much weight does it add to the. overall truck? Oh gosh, a [ __ ] ton. Those doors, if you were to. put your finger in one of those level. seven doors by hand, it's just going to.

You get it trimmed off. You'll get it. trimmed off. And that's a really weird factoid about. level sevens is you never want to roll. down the windows and you really can't on. a lot of them. So if one of your. teammates farts in the [ __ ] vehicle, it's the worst cuz you can't open the. door, roll down the window. You're like, "Really, dude?". Yeah. You can't go through Chick-fil-A. drive-thru in one of those things. No, you can. You can get I think you get. the window down about this far, give or. take. But it'll also take a it'll also. take a finger off. if you had to roll up the window. The. window is going to be 3 and 12 to 4 in.

thick. That's how big it is. And it's not. glass. It's it's a it's a plastic. essentially or some type of plastic. that you can see through and uh you can. see through it looks somewhat like glass. if you get close to an armored vehicle. How many [ __ ] are listening to this. right now going, "I need that in my. life.". Oh man, I need one of those. There's actually a lot of companies that. do that. They take like Tacomaomas or. Tundras and they outfit them with level. sevens. I mean, I think that's just kind. of badass. One day I want one. Doesn't that uh Devolo company do that?

Do you know that? Do you know that. company? Dev Rolo? Oh, yeah. That that's what I was talking. about. Yeah, they they do the that plastic. coating on the outside. What's that [ __ ]. called? the the hard plastic coating on. the outside. You know, they uh. it's like synthetic Kevlar or something. like that. Yeah, it's like this hard plastic the. it's like I forget what it's called. There's a usually they use it for. undercoating some cars, but these a lot. of cars they do it on the outside as. well and then they'll do the whole. bulletproof treatment of them and then. they. What are those? Those things are like.

$500,000 too. I think they're pretty. expensive. Expensive. Jamie, go to Dev Rolo. It's um they'll. do a a 700 horsepower engine option and. all kinds of crazy [ __ ]. Well, like when you look at the we we'll. call it the Mercedes and it is you'll. have sometimes you'll have a V12 twin. turbo V12 and a Mercedes that's got to. be 6 700 wheel. That's got to be go to. their uh just their model range where. the model range is. Yeah. And then go to.

the Predator. Volo limousine. Look at that thing. Yeah, they make a limo, but the the. Predator, I think, is their top of the. line. Oh, that's that's that's their F-150. They do an F-150 and they also do a. Tundra, but that's there's that line that [ __ ]. on the outside. Linux. Is that what it's. called? Yeah. Is that what it's called? Yeah, that's Linux. Yeah. Yeah. So, it's this really durable plastic. that you can't scratch or dent. So, now that you're in Texas, is that. going to be your Texas truck? I think I might have to Dev X. Oh, they.

call it Dev X. So, it's like a version. of Linx, I'm sure. Right. I think it used to be called Linux. Yeah, those things are mean looking. I like. it. Yeah, that's dope. Also, okay, so it. does they do it for Jeeps, too. There. Oh, they do it with everything. Yeah, it's Linux cuz they've been Mercedes. Ew. What are you doing? Yeah, it's disgusting. Unscratchable, but it looks like [ __ ]. They look okay, I guess. It's kind of. like a a matte looking, but the texture. Yeah, I've seen people do that with. Jeeps and [ __ ]. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

I think Dudley did it to one of his, right? Did he? Yeah. I think his Jeep was just at the. office. I think he's got some kind of. Lionax or something. I don't know. I just saw it. I just saw. it in Utah. I didn't notice that. I'm probably just imagining. I might I might have not been paying. attention though. We were looking at so. many different things when we were up. there. Yeah. But that So, this company does. that, but it's like I think that was. like there's a lot a lot of like rich. Russian guys that drive around those. things. Yeah. Yeah. That's kind of a rich Russian. thing to do, right? It's like.

number one ballisted car in USA. Yeah. If you're a rich Russian, chances. are someone wants to kill you. I would say that's a really high. It's a high possibility. It's a high. possibility. So, so when you got out of the military, how long was it before you started Black. Rifle? It was started basically at the same. time. Is there coffee in this thing right. here? Yeah. Yeah, there's still coffee in. there. Uh. what is this? What kind of coffee is. this? That is that Cinnabon that I I. roasted special for this for this place.

That Ethiopian [ __ ] that you said. Yeah. What' you think of Ethopity, man? I love it. I love I I was turned on. to Ethiopian coffee. I had this guy. Peter Giuliano. He's a coffee expert. back in the day. I had him on the. podcast like a few years back. I was. just interested. I was like, "What? Like. what is it like these people that are. really into coffee?" I started reading. about people who are really into coffee. I'm like, "I want to know what the [ __ ]. is going on. Like what is happening?". like these real heavy coffee nerds cuz I. would just get coffee and pour cream in. it and then I was into like MCT oil and.

grass-fed butter and coffee for a while. But the problem with that is people in. the podcast got so annoyed with me going. every 30 seconds cuz you've got all this. grass-fed butter and MCT oil in your. throat, right? just like coats you when. you um so I got this guy Peter Giuliano. come on and he just explained to me the. whole thing how all coffee came from. Ethiopia and then and then the. difference between uh wet processing and. dry processing and and coffee rust and.

all these different things like what we. went down the rabbit hole for like 3. hours. the best analogy I have for coffee it's. so similar to wine right you have the. wine connoisseurs that can taste all the. tasting notes and all that then you have. the average consumer that goes and buys. bought a box just to get drunk or just. for the caffeine it's very similar where. if you go down the rabbit hole like Evan. specifically I mean. with everything cigars with everything. there's just dorks that take it to the. next level. Well and I think that the for every one. of those whether it's wine or cigars or. coffee or whatever it is right and which.

is a side total sidebar story about as. well which is I went and had dinner with. uh Crowder one night and we went to this. cigar bar and he's he's a hardcore cigar. aicionado like he is it really? Yeah. And so he was taking me down, you know, cigar street with whatever he's doing. and I was taking him down Coffee Street. And so the geekiest conversation. in in America was taking place between. Stephen and me as we're trying to eat.

steak in this this bar in Dallas, not. too far from his office. But I think for. every one of those like you actually. find a niche subculture of people that. are also share you know your your same. passion for just obscure details and. things. So when you're talking about. wine or coffee, you do have some type of. common kinship, I guess. Uh because I I. I get it. I I totally get why people are. into this one little thing and they want.

to go as deep and as interesting as they. can. I I totally get it because I'm I'm. like that with coffee. I never get bored. of it if I go to Panama or Guatemala or. Costa Rica. Coffee is so fascinating from every. aspect. Whether we're looking at it from. a historical the the international. historical consequences of this entire. commodity, whether it's commodities. trading, whether it's growing and. processing the future of coffee, where. is it headed? How are we, you know, optimizing the growing process so we.

don't run out of it? Whether you're. looking at it from a roasting or a. drinking, all of that you can go as deep. and as detailed as you want and it. doesn't get [ __ ] boring. I could. spend the rest of my life. Have you ever thought about farming in. Is it possible to do in America? Like, can you do it in Texas? No. Um, the climate's just not correct. No, it's. We only have Kona out of Hawaii. That's. about it, which is [ __ ] fantastic. I love Kona. coffee. Yeah, it's. there's some really amazing flavors that.

come out of the Big Island for whatever. reason, right? It's a soil. Is that what it is? Yeah, it's a soil. So, when you have uh. the high lava uh or. But let's be honest, that's not America. No, Hawaii is not America. It's crazy. I. mean, I love I love Hawaii, don't get me. wrong, but they should be they should. allow be allowed to be their own [ __ ]. country. They're they're they're an. island in the middle of the ocean. It's. 5 hours by plane from America. How the. [ __ ] is that America? I think they. should be protected by America. Don't. get me wrong. I mean, but.

the idea that that's regular America, like, come on, man. Hawaii, you there's. a specific look Hawaiians have. Like, oh, that dude looks Hawaiian. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. What? There's a guy from Iowa. Oh, that guy looks Ian. No. No. Highlanders. That's not the way that it works, right? Man, this is [ __ ] crazy that that's. America. Yeah. Plus, you kind of don't want. America to [ __ ] it up. So, either, right? So, it's like keep it out there. So, like none of the American. politicians can [ __ ] that thing up to.

the point where we can't go out there. and at least enjoy it in in a peaceful. in a in a in a way that's beneficial for. everybody. I mean, they we've done they've done an. amazing job of not [ __ ] it up, thinking about how many people come. there, you know, like every year people. are constantly going to Hawaii and. they've somehow or another managed to. keep it together. Well, I think it's. pretty much America's like vacation spot. where we're like, we'll take that island. so you know, we have bachelorette. parties, we can just roll out there and. sit on Kawaii for a couple days and.

drink, you know, margaritas. The the. thing that I was thinking about when I. was flying out there, which is really. kind of a morbid thought in some ways, where I was thinking about all the fat. that has flown across the ocean so they. can go eat more fat on the island of. Hawaii in the sense of like just people. and the obesity of just generally flying. seven hours, landing on an island, and. then essentially sitting and eating at a. buffet and then flying back. And I was. thinking about the fuel that's being. utilized to cart just general fat back.

and forth from Hawaii. That's what I was. thinking about when I was flying to. Hawaii in January. And uh. fat and booze. Yeah, fat and booze. So much booze gets consumed there. So much. And with me, too. When I go. there, I just immediately start. drinking. I I don't drink during the day. here. Like very rarely. But when I go to. Hawaii, like the moment I land, [ __ ]. yeah. There's something about the island vibe. that you're like, "It's 11:00 a.m. Mimosas. Why not?". Give me something with an umbrella.

Something with a pineapple slice in it. Let's party. Yeah. I [ __ ] love it there. And it's my. favorite hunting destination. Oh, mine too. Because it's a great place to go to get. tuned up for like elk hunting because. you get so many opportunities when you. go to LAI and. for axis, right? Yeah. And like ethically like they have. to kill those things. Like there's no if. ends or buts about it. They bring in. snipers on a weekly basis. They They. have 30 They have 30,000 deer, plus or minus, you know? They don't. really know. They're doing overhead.

surveys and [ __ ]. on an island with 3,000 people. And it's tiny. Have you been? No, I haven't. Bro, it's bonkers. When you're there at. night time and you hit the flashlight or. hit the headlights and you just see. thousands of eyes, you're like, "Whoa, this is crazy.". Well, axes breed like hogs, as you know, and I think a lot of people don't know. in like Texas with the exotics here. What happened over the last, you know, whatever hundred years is the rains and. storms wash out the high fences and then. you get the axis that escape and now. they're like rampid where I live in Hill.

Country just an hour away. I mean, they're they're [ __ ] everywhere. There's almost more than that like wild. white tail and. white saw an axis near our house. We were driving right next to my house. on the way here. We saw about a 34 in. axis and about I don't know 30 females. out there in the field on the way. Wow. And the crazy thing with Texas is. they're considered exotics. So, as long. as you have a hunting license, there's. not the regulations like there are in. the season with whitetails. So, you can. It's They're walking groceries, which is. awesome cuz they're like, I need to eat. So delicious. Delicious. They're so delicious. They consider elk.

exotics. here. Yeah. Which is so weird because elk used. to be native. They used to be native here, but they. they were, you know, extrapated. And. then now that they're back again, they're because they're not standard for. Texas. They're now considered exotics. So there's no like hunting season for. elk out here. Have you immersed yourself in all in. like the Texas hunting culture yet at. all? I've only been here for a month. Okay. It's wild, man. Cuz you go to. I haven't even said y'all yet. Y'all? You haven't? I've tried it. It It's an It's an.

ill-fitting shoe for me in my. vocabulary. I can't use it. I'm like a cultural mut. I'm like, "What's up, bro?" from SoCal, y'all. And. it's like, "Wait, what the [ __ ] is this. guy?" He said, "Bro, shred the nar." And then y'all, yeah, shred the nar, y'all. But the. hunting out here is crazy cuz like some. of the high fence ranches I we're. talking tens of thousands of acres and. you know if you ask them like can you. shoot a giraffe they're like. everything's got a price tag old boy and. I mean anything goes but. I'm not shooting a giraffe. No no no I but. No, but apparently they're I have a.

friend who shot a gira giraffe and he. says they're [ __ ] delicious. Really? Yeah. They had to shoot one giraffe. Right. So. here's the thing about giraffes. They. are like every other animal. They want. to control breeding, right? So every. other male large male wants to control. breeding. And when you have a large male. giraffe that [ __ ] up all the other male. giraffes, you're like, "Okay, we got a. real problem with this guy.". And so they had to take out this. giraffe. So he was in Africa at the. time. And they shot this giraffe and. they ate it. And he said it was. unbelievably delicious.

Did they reference what it tasted like? I would imagine it's giraffe. I would. imag It's got to be in the deer family, right? Like something like it. Dinosaur. I would What? Yeah. What family is. giraffe in? I have no. Here's my thing on it, though. I'm not. eating anything that is so friendly. When you go to the zoo, a baby can feed. it, right? Like my daughter I have video of my. daughter when she's two. I was holding. her and the giraffe comes with this. crazy tongue and takes the lettuce from. her hands and she's laughing. I mean, they're just too chill, man. And they're.

the only animal that I have no problem. with at the zoo, too. I used to have a. bit about it because every other animal. at the zoo, you're like, "Let him go. What the [ __ ] is this?" The giraffes. have no problem with that fence. They're. like another day with no lions and they. just stroll on over to where the lettuce. is. I feel like that's how they talk. Very. proper. Yeah, that's how I think. Relatives. Okapi. Yeah, I got a couple of those just. hanging. Do you have a okapi? No, I'm just joking. I'm sure they have them. We do have a zdon at our uh at our. ranch. What a pretty animal though. The okapi.

Wow, that's beautiful. Have you Have you seen the zdonss here? Is it a zebra donkey hybrid? Yeah, they they crosspollinate and it's. got zebra legs and then a donkey body. It's super weird looking. Oh, Jamie. Yeah, because a lot of those animals if. they get out like a zdon crossover, then. you have like, you know, red stag and. elk can actually mate together and make. a hybrid crossbreed. Seriously? Yeah. That's why they'll. never keep on the same. Look at that. Yeah. Cool, huh? But that's a infertile animal, right? Yeah, I believe so. Most hybrids are like that. I kind of want it as a pet.

Wow. What a beautiful thing. What is. that [ __ ] thing with a giant Yeah, look at that [ __ ]. That's. the size of those. I think that's a watusu. I think you can. Google that. Watch. How what the [ __ ] kind of neck. does it have to carry that around? Look. at that headgear. Actually Florida Florida airboats. That's just a Florida that's a Florida. airboat. That's a That's a Watusu. It's like it's. very similar to a Texas Longhorn, but. they got these really thick horns on. them and they actually. That's like a sprinter's car.

There's a Y in there. Yeah. Right there. Right. Wow. It's a Y in there. It's like W a YTSU or. something. Hm. Don't ask me. I can't. Wild ass looking animal. Well, Texas has. I did a bit about Texas tigers. There's. more tigers in captivity in Texas than. all the wild of the world, right? One state more tigers than all of the. planet and they're all in dudes yards. Riddle me this. Do you think after Joe. Exotic that the the increase of Texas. ownership? Yeah.

That [ __ ] Holy [ __ ] Look at. the That's If you saw showed me that, I'd be like, "Oh, that's Avatar. That's. fake. That's in a movie. It's real. Wow. I wonder that what that thing. tastes like. It tastes just like cow. I've had it. I like how that's your first. Oh, look at that one. What the [ __ ]. man? What does it taste like? I I like how that's a Joe's first. question. Huh. I wonder what that tastes. like. It's like cruising through. Well, everything doesn't taste the same. I've had people that have never had elk. before and I serve it to them and. they're like, "Holy shit." I'm like,

"Yeah, yeah. This is the real thing." You feel. different when you eat it. You're like, "Woo!" You like, you feel pumped up cuz. it's so filled with nutrients and just. vitamins and everything, you know? Feels like Alpha Brain for your body. Yeah, there's something to it. There's. definitely something to it. There's a. reason why they're running away from. Mountain Lions all the time. That's I don't know if you ever tried. it, but I've been taking um like beef. like grass-fed organic beef like liver. pills and stuff. Yeah, I do that. You do it? Yeah. I had a company hook me up and. man, I take that and about 30 minutes.

after I eat, I'm like supercharged. if I. just took like a B12 shot. It's the. weirdest thing and I think you had to. like work your way up in dosage. Yeah, that guy uh Paul Salino uh. carnivore MD. Yeah, he sell I think it's. heart and soil supplements. He sells uh grassfed. uh beef liver, beef heart, trachea, collagen. I take all that [ __ ]. Yeah, Trevor does all that. The Trevor. Thompson, he he takes all that [ __ ]. right? Yeah, Trevor super health. consscious.

Yeah, I I believe in that 100%. I mean, human beings are supposed to be eating. organs. When wolves kill, the first. thing the the alpha does is eat the. liver. The other wolves stand by and. wait, and the alpha eats the liver. It's. the most nutrient-dense part of the. body. Do you keep it? Do you keep your liver. when you. I love liver. Yeah. I think it's I buy. liver at the store, too. I buy calves. liver like when I run out of elk liver. or I love heart, too. Heart's delicious. Deer heart is my favorite. My brother. like chops it up and like sears it in. oil like almost fried a little bit. It's delicious. And an elk liver is like.

as as big as this [ __ ] table. It's so. big. It's an enormous enormous organ. Yeah. And I've always looked at the last. couple years. It's interesting because. people will go, "Why are you keeping. that?" It's funny because I'm, you know, pulling my knife out going through, you. know, as I'm field dressing it. I'm. like, "Ah, we need to keep the heart and. liver." And it's funny because people, some people don't like it. Some people are like, "What the [ __ ] are. you doing?" I'm like, "Man, it's really. good. I want to one day shoot a bison. and then cut the liver out and squirt.

bile on it and eat it raw cuz that's. what the Native Americans did. apparently. It was like their favorite. thing to do. Really? Yeah. They would cut the liver out and. cut slices of liver and squirt bile on. on the liver and eat it raw. I want I. want to taste that. I want to know what. does the bile do? Why? Just. it's like salty, I guess. Huh. Yeah. I mean they had all sorts of you. know ways to get nutrition that were. sort of not just natural but like. instinctive you know like like the liver. like today we don't necessarily eat.

liver like most if you like gave a. survey of how many people eat liver on a. daily basis it's like probably not even. onetenth of 1% right but back then it. was like really important for nutrients. because. you know especially if you're living on. the planes in the winter and there's. there's no vegetables you're not getting. any vegetables you know you're like The. Comanche basically lived off bison, right? And when they would shoot a bison, the. one of the first things they would do is. cut the liver up and eat eat it raw with. bile on it. I want to know what it tastes like. That's my favorite part about living in.

Texas is I live a bunch next to the. hillbillies. And I mean that in a. complimentary sense, but like my. neighbor, I don't know, two months ago. was like, "Hey man, I just killed a. bison on this ranch. I got like extra. meat. and he gave me like 150 lbs of, you know, organic bison that I mean I. love it cuz everybody's killing [ __ ]. around here and you eat so good. Well, at my studio in LA, I had three. commercial freezers. So when when dudes. would come over, I'd give everybody. meat. I gave meat to people that you would, you know, never think would be out there. eating elk.

Just never put your freezer on a GFI. switch. I learned the hard way in my in. my uh garage. The GFI switch went off. and I didn't check my freezer for like 4. days. Ruined three axis and one at white tail. So. I would think the 3 days it would still. be frozen. Not in the Texas summer in the garage. But if is it a good seal like a really. high-end freezer? Probably not. I think I bought a cheap. one that first time. when my um the my neighborhood caught. fire a couple years back and I had a uh. freezer commercial freezer in my garage.

We had evacuated, but my friend Bud. stayed by. when the firefighters were in the area, I said, "Hey, man." I go, "Go into the. freezer." I go, "That meat is still. going to be good." And pull it out and. serve it to the firefighters. So, we they felt they fed like [ __ ]. 100 firefighters. You kidding me? Yeah. It was awesome. I had hundreds of pounds. of meat in there. And it was But it was still frozen. It was still good. That's crazy. Yeah. A good seal for like a Yeti. cooler. Those [ __ ] Yeti coolers, man,

they are the [ __ ] You can take one of. those coolers, fill it with ice, leave. it in 100° sun for 5 days. You open that. [ __ ] up, there's ice in there. It's. crazy. It doesn't make any sense. Well, it does make sense, but it's just. shocking. When we were when we were I I would row. down this the middle fork of the salmon. in in um in Idaho. So, we do like five, six day trips, and I would pack shitty. coolers with dry ice and ice. and they. would last 5 days. So even with a Yeti.

cooler, a little bit of shade, you can. stretch that out for I don't know, man, you could get a week at least out of. that stuff. But the funny thing is with. like just meat in general as far as like. one of the questions that I was I was. trying to ask you earlier was when. you're on that carnivore diet and you. were eating nothing but meat, were you. eating wild meat or were you also eating. some, you know, beef and some other. things in there? I was eating both. I was eating the I. was eating like a lot of elk, which I. always do, but elk is very lean. There's.

no fat in that. So, I would also I would. cook it in tallow, okay? First of all, so I had a lot of beef. fat. I would take scoops of tallow and. just eat it. I would eat scoops of beef tallow, grass-fed beef tallow, and then I would. also cook it in bacon. I would eat. bacon. Like, I'd have like four or five. pieces of bacon. You have to get fat, otherwise you'll get that rabbit. starvation [ __ ] going on, you know? Like, so I was just trying different. ways to get fat in my diet. And then you did that for a month. Yeah. A whole month. And. lost 12 pounds. And uh I got real.

aggressive. Seriously? Yes. Yes. It gets too aggressive. Like I. I don't know. Yeah. I think so for sure. But also I think it's just there's. something about your body thinking all. it does is eat meat, right? I mean I think like one of the things. that my friends have said that have. turned vegan is like it makes them more. peaceful and calm. It makes sense. You're grazing. You're [ __ ] you're. you're a herbivore now. Like you're just. out there eating grass and rice all day. Like of course like it seems like your. body would be calm. But on the other side of it, if you're.

eating meat all the time, your body's. like, "We got to kill.". Yeah. Like it's it's I think there's something. to that. I really do. Cuz I wasn't. trying to be aggressive, right? But I I would find myself like saying. things that were a little too aggressive. or like. it was weird. It's like the world's worst [ __ ]. excuse. You're like, "God, you're kind. of an [ __ ] today, Joe. I've just been. eating meat, man. I wasn't being a dick, but I was like a. little quick to judge things. Like a. little [ __ ] him. Like it was just a. little too much. And then it's just.

there was something I think there's. something to that. There's And I had a. lot of energy, man. That was the other. thing that was interesting. Oh, yeah. All day long. That was what was weird. It's like there was no crash. There was. no crashing during the day. It was like. I had extra energy. It was crazy. It. felt weird, you know? It's like there was no I was. eating no sugar, right? What about eggs? Yeah, fish. Eggs, fish, fish, all that. Anything that's an animal. I was. anything that's an animal. The only thing that kept me from eating. that way was I got bored. So I I love. pasta. I love food. I love going to a.

restaurant and they make you a nice crab. cake or something. I love like when I. love when chefs create things. Like I. don't want to say, "Hey, I don't eat. meat." Like like it's just I like sushi. I like it with the rice and the I like. it. It tastes good. It's one of the. things that I enjoy. So for that it's like I I could do it. longer if I want. I could keep doing I. could eat like that forever. But I I. enjoy food too much, I think. Right. But. it's the only reason I'm motivated in.

life to be pretty good at business is so. I can buy pretty good whiskey and be a. fat [ __ ] anytime I go to a restaurant. and buy the lobster roll that's $37. And. I'm like, it's cool, man. Yeah, there's there's some logic to. that. not worrying about what food costs. and just it just there's something about. I feel like when you go to a restaurant. you're going to like an art gallery some. it's like this guy's an artist or this. woman's an artist she creates these. dishes and then you're experience their. art you know I don't want to just eat.

meat all the time so when I go to. restaurants I eat whatever the [ __ ] I. want. but I think 80% of my diet's meat. probably around 80%. I' I've been trying like I strictly. uh essentially vegetables and meat for. probably the last six months just to see. kind of what's going on. And honestly, I. felt really good and then I shifted just. to meat five or six days ago. So, I'm. I'm running just meat now. Yeah.

Uh so, I'm interested in in what you did. and I guess, you know, I should probably. do a little bit more research, but. Trevor talk about it. Uh well, I'm using grass-fed a lot of. grass-fed butter. Uh, I kept all the. bones. So, I'm using all the bone marrow. and things like that out of my elk. That's I love bone marrow. And for for the most part, you know, the. elk that I shot um a couple weeks ago, that thing was really fat. It had a. really healthy layer of fat on it. Uh, which is more it was a lot more fat than. I thought that we would get from those,

especially in the rut. I know. Yeah, mine was pretty fat, too. It was pretty impressive. Uh, but I'm. trying. You know what I mean? where. it's, you know, I've talked to Trevor a. lot over the last several months on how. are you feeling? Are you crashing at. this time? How are we? He stopped it, right? He he did it for a. while, but then he got off of it. He. said his hormones kind of plateaued. Well, he was doing something crazy, too. He was doing carnivore and he was only. eating for like 30 seconds during the.

day or something where he would gorge. himself. What? It was crazy. Yeah. He. was he was he was fasting till like 4:00. in the afternoon and then so he's doing. intermittent fasting. He's doing it. every day till 4:00 or 5 in the. afternoon and he give himself a feed. window of 2 hours or something like. that. And he's he was prepping for his. uh he's he's doing a couple races plus. he's doing some guiding up in Alaska. So, he's doing all of these kind of. mental exercises plus the fact that he's.

optimizing his diet, doing exercise, physical exercise. He's got this really. interesting way of kind of looking at. life, but he's only giving himself maybe. an hour of a feeding window a day for a. while. I like how you called it a feeding. window. That's how they call it. That's like, yeah, it's weird. That intermittent. fasting thing is a weird sort of torture. cult. They're like torturing themselves. and just like there's benefits to it for. sure. There's real benefits to not. eating all the time because you give. your body a break and you let your body.

digest food and and there's benefits to. going into ketosis and your body goes. into ketosis when it doesn't have. glycogen anymore and it starts eating. fat and burning off the fat. There's a. lot there's a host of benefits. I'm not. the guy to tell tell you about them, but. there's also a thing where guys do where. they want to see how long they can go. Yeah. You know, like marathon runners, they there just something to it. Like. they want to see how far they can push. it. And so there's a thing where you're. hungry, but you're like, "Nope, not. until 6. I don't eat until 6.". Yeah, that's super aggressive.

Intermittent fasting is weird to me when. they eat for like 2 hours a day. I get. it if it's like 12, but like 18 20. hours, that's that's too much for me. We would be up in the mountains uh. cruising around. We were going shed. hunting and it's, you know, 4:30, 5:00, and he's like, "I can't eat yet." Like. you haven't eaten all day. You just want. a little something. No, I'm not eating. till Thursday. I don't [ __ ] around with that [ __ ] when. I'm in the mountains. If I'm hunting, I. eat all the time. I eat constantly. I'm. I'm not doing any intermittent fasting.

when I'm walking 10 miles a day in the. mountains. That's crazy. when you have to. I I never know when. the real work is going to begin. Right. Right. And I don't want to be. in that position. And I I found myself. in that position the last couple years. where it's time to turn it on. And. [ __ ] man. I I was on a stock uh a few. weeks ago and it took me over an hour to. move 30 yards just trying to move on. this big bull as slow as I could. There.

were cows everywhere, so I had eyes. everywhere looking for me. It's amazing. if you don't move fast and you have the. right camo what you can get away with. You can get away. And I didn't know what. I could get away with or I couldn't get. away with. And I feel like I'm doing. Tai Chi or something, you know, just. moving as slow as you can. Uh, and then. you never know when how long is that. stock going to be? And then. how long is the postwork? If I if I. shoot this animal, how long am I going.

to have to track it? M. where is all the work in this going to. start and end? So, I'm the same way. I. have to eat throughout the day. I have. to keep putting fuel in my body because. I'm always expecting shit's going to get. real like 10 minutes from now. Yeah. And those hunting situations like. you just don't know. You don't know if. you're going to have to pack out in an. hour. Like you should be fueled up cuz. if you get really tired and you just. feel weak and woozy, you could push. through it in a regular day. Sure. But.

if you're out there in the mountains and. you're at 8,000 feet and then you have a. hundred pounds of elk on your back and. you have to walk over this ridge and. it's going to take you two miles to get. to the truck, good [ __ ] luck. Yeah, you should have prepared. Better be gassed up a little bit more. Yeah, I eat, man. You got to eat. But I. think there's real benefits to, you. know, occasionally fasting and then that. intermittent fasting. I think human. beings probably eat too much generally. If you look at Americans in particular, we're fat as [ __ ]. Yeah. Well, the wrong stuff, too. I mean, I've. always made that joke when people are.

like having a donut and they're just. like, I have no energy and they're. chugging coffee. I'm like, eat some. [ __ ] good carbs and some meat and. you're going to feel great. It's just. Yeah. The diet in America is very. interesting to me. Especially when we. travel and we're with some of the other. guys that don't have the same dietary. habits as us. And I'm like, that's you. ate gas station burritos and a hot dog. and that's that's what you had today. And I'm like, and I don't and I'm not. like discrediting it. It's your life. Do. what you want. But it's it's weird. And. then they feel like [ __ ] all day and. you're like, "Well, no wonder you had. Yeah. It's just too available.".

Yeah. It's It's too There's too much all. the time. And I think that's where the. the intermittent fasting, at least, you. know, for a lot of guys, it's it it can. really help because it's ultimately. saying, "I'm not going to take part in. just the ease of all the food that's. available all the time, and I'm going to. take part in it, you know, two or three. hours a day or whatever it is.". Just give yourself some discipline. Yeah. Give yourself some discipline. Now, when you're you're eating this all. meat diet, how much of what you're. eating is is the elk and and wild game.

and how what what are you what are you. using? I'm using right now I'm only using wild. fish, so salmon for the most part. Um. and elk. So, I'm. That's it. That's it. So, I brought. What about other fat sources? Uh well, I mean, outside of that little. little on it nugget that you gave me. earlier, those protein bites. Yeah. Yeah. Those are so [ __ ]. addictive. So good. So good. Uh, but I I think for MCT, I. use a lot of MCT. And I'm not saying.

it's good whatsoever. I just want to see. what the [ __ ] happens to my body when I. do nothing but. good when I say when I say nonprocessed. fats, wild meat all the way through. And. then stick to it for two, three, four. weeks and see how I'm feeling. Just make sure you get enough fat. Yeah. That's the real problem with. people when they get really tired. because your body is most certainly. going to go into ketosis at certain. points in time. But there's also. something that happens when you eat so.

much protein. Your body converts that. protein into glucose, right? It's I think it's called gluccogenesis. or something like that. And you you'll. experience that too, but you're going to. need fat. If you don't, you're going to. get fatigued. It's it'll start [ __ ]. with you. And that's one of the reasons. why I got really into tallow and really. started eating a lot of bacon and things. like Why do you think there's such like. a national misconception that fat's bad. for your body? Because I hear that from. a lot of people like, "I don't want to. eat it. It's fat.". Well, they were told that for the. longest time. They were Well, first of. all, there's real evidence that sugar.

and and these companies that made sugar, paid scientists to [ __ ] with data to put. heart disease and all these uh problems. that people are having with clogged. arteries to push that off on saturated. fat, right? And to take that away from. from sugar, right? And sugar, sugar is terrible for you. Sugar in that form is so unnatural, right? Fat in the form of meat is very natural. It's what human beings have been eating. since the beginning of time.

Yeah. Monossaturated, polyunsaturated, saturated fats, all pretty good for you. Just like stay away from trans fat, but. unsaturated fats that come from. vegetable oils, like I think it's called. lenolic acid, is [ __ ] terrible for. you. Not only is it terrible for you, there's real evidence that it makes you. hungry. that like you're you're eating. it and there's no nutrients in it, so. your body gets hungrier. Look, throughout human history, there's never. been a time until recently where people. got oils directly from plants in large. quantities like that. You know, if you.

got oil from plants, it was like oil. from avocados, like natural. or you got your oil from, you know, beef. fat or chicken fat or things that's. natural for human beings. these. saturated fats that are natural. Um, your body knows what to do with them. Your body doesn't know what the [ __ ] to. do with canola oil. What is it? Your body's like, "What the. [ __ ] is this?". Right? Your body gets a hold of like. some raw honey. Your body knows exactly. what to do with it, but your body gets a. hold of like [ __ ] corn syrup and that.

that kind of [ __ ] It's like, "What is. this? It just doesn't make sense to your. body." And I think we've gotten into. this processed food thing and processed. food is almost entirely like if if you. it's first of all it's a human it's a. new human creation. Yeah. And it's uh it's it should never be your. first choice. Your first choice should. be natural foods. You know your first. choice should be sh look apple steak all. that. That's normal. You can eat that.

That's easy. Your body knows what the. [ __ ] to do with that. But, you know, you. get into like seed oils and all these. like really heavily processed seed oils. Like, there's real evidence that that is. a a giant part of what's wrong with the. health of Americans today is these. ultrarocessed vegetable oils. They're. [ __ ] terrible for you. But it it doesn't seem to me like that's. a stretch in logic, right? So, for just the American diet in general, for us to look at the traditional food. pyramid and say, "Well, that's.

bullshit." Ultimately, you know, if. grains and ultim and processed foods sit. at the the cornerstone of your entire. diet, you're going to have some issues. You can kind of look around. You don't. even have to be a rocket surgeon to. figure that out, right? It's like, holy. [ __ ] obesity is an epidemic in the. United States. We're eating a ton of. processed food and all the guys that I. know that are healthy are eating whole. foods for the most part. And it's not. because you have more discipline or. because you have more access or wealth. I know a ton of guys that are not very.

wealthy that eat whole foods and they're. feeding in certain windows and they're. still in the military, still doing. [ __ ] incredibly difficult missions. and they're really healthy. So when I. look around, I say, "Well, okay, if you. stick to whole foods and you limit your. amount of caloric intake, we're not. dealing in a high, you know, high. intellect thought process here. It. should be pretty easy." But I think what. people want. is they want their easy button, right?

Hungry. You see Jack in the Box, you. pull in, you get a burger, you're like, "Oh, now I feel better." But meanwhile, you just force some [ __ ] into your. system. Your system's got to burn off. all this [ __ ] that you poured in. there. But there's even foods that. people think are healthy that are not. really good for you. Like for instance, white rice is better than brown rice. Yes. Like people think white rice like, "Oh, I'll have brown rice. I'm being healthy. I have a brown rice. Got to be one of. the biggest misconceptions out there. That [ __ ] stuff. There's arsenic in. that. But it's brown.

Yeah. It's not good. It looks like grains. But this all I eat is white rice. That [ __ ] is terrible for you. Like. there's a reason why Asian cultures for. a long time have been getting rid of. that outside that husk. The Japanese got it right with food. I'm. telling you. Sushi, white rice, seaweed, just all day. Favorite. Yeah. Well, there's a lot of countries. that figured it out. We're just not one. of them. Yeah. We're like ultrarocessed seed oils, sugar, corn syrup. Yeah. Preservatives.

[ __ ] gallons of preservatives, glyphosate on all our plants. Yeah. There's also evidence that like animals, and I've been getting into this lately, animals that eat uh these uh. ultrarocessed foods, then you eat them. Like animals that eat like ultrarocessed. corn and then you eat that animal. like. you're getting some of the [ __ ] from. the corn and some of the [ __ ] from. that. All these seed oil acids, you're. getting these things in your body, too. But that that makes sense to me. It it.

makes complete sense to me when we look. at what they're eating. and then you're eating them. For sure. Like there's really not a direct or. you're not stretching and connecting a. lot of complex thought there in the. sense of when people are trying to sell. me on the idea like no it's great, don't. worry about it. It's like, "No, man. Like, those chickens are eating arsenic. and they're packed in, you know, right. on top of each other, [ __ ] on each. other everywhere. Like, I'd rather have. a free freerange egg. I'd rather have that. I'd rather have.

freerange chicken. It's no offense to. however you want to eat, but it's just a. preference of eating. It's pretty easy. I think that the the argument comes from. maybe corporate impact in marketing. where they'll just Americans will. consume it without thinking and go, "Well, it's good because Jack in the Box. told me that it's organic.". Well, I think if there's any one thing. in this country where there is a a. massive. lack of understanding in terms of like.

the the the way people perceive what's. good and what's bad, it's nutrition. Because there's so few doctors that. really know what the [ __ ] they're. talking about. There's doctors out there. that'll tell you you don't need. supplements. You don't need supplements. You need a healthy balanced diet. And. then you look at them, they got a gut. They look bloated. They look like. they're dying. Like the [ __ ] is going on. there? I just typed in brown rice versus white. rice just to see what would pop up. And. like the all five, six articles that. come up say the opposite of what you. guys just said. that it's good for you. That brown rice has a better advantage.

over. white rice. Advantage. What's the advantage? says. that there's uh nutrients and. antioxidants and white rice is empty. calories. Yeah, white articles about rice is. basically just carbohydrates. It is just. carb It's just calories. But the the. shell of the brown rice is not good for. you. But what Google what do Google this. brown r the negative consequences of. brown rice. Yeah. I don't I think it's not. necessarily a nutritional thing. There's. something in there. And you get a lot of vegan propaganda.

and these articles that are written by. these people like. Well, the one I went to was a a company. I've I get food from sometimes. Not to. like I'm paid by them, but I look. Do me a favor. Google Google the. negative. Well, that's. what did I say? The negative um impact. of brown rice. Negative health. consequences of brown rice. But that's got to be across the board. with food. I was actually just listening. to a doctor discuss this. brown rice.

Brown rice is the brand and germ attack. Both of which are responsible for giving. it the high five with the brand germ. Also irritate the digestive tract. leading to digestive problems, bloating, diarrhea, constipation, leaky gut. syndrome. I would skip that source usually. Times of India is bad. but they eat a lot of rice over there. I get all my facts from Wikipedia man. Usually not the best source that we. would start with I would say. Well, that's the problem. Like, where do you. get? That's what I was trying to say. So, I. just typed. WebMD is usually pretty good. I just typed in brown rice. The problem with brown rice. Go that.

Invictus Fitness. What is that? Here we go. The problem with brown rice. diet often insists that people should. eat brown rice. D majority of your. protein. Brown rice has also been. reported high levels of inorganic. arsenic which I what I said which is a. toxin known to potentially cause liver, lung, kidney and bladder cancer. Some. arsenic is just naturally occurring. mineral but the inorganic kind comes. from chemicals and pesticides. A. researcher named Allan Aragon helped run.

two he's a very highly respected fellow. read his [ __ ] online. Uh run two. different research projects comparing. the effects of white rice and brown rice. on the body. See the findings below. White rice actually has an equal or. better nutritional yield and also has a. better nitrogen retentive effect uh than. brown rice. This is also because fiber. and fi what's that word? Fitate phitate. Fiber and fitate content of brown rice. act as an anti-nutrient reducing the. bioavailability of the micronutrients it.

contains. Since no one is reading the. [ __ ] link, I'll just lay things out. here for you. Yeah. So, the problem with things that. are posted online is that there's a lot. of people that want to get you to eat a. certain way, and they'd like you to eat. whole foods, they'd like you to eat. plant-based foods, they'd like you to. eat carnivore, they'd like you to eat. keto, and they'll try to spell things. out with user bias or with uh, you know,

confirmation bias. They try to like only. like if you've talked to people that are. carnivore based people, they'll just. tell you like this is the only way you. should eat and this is why. You talk to. people that are vegans, this is the only. way you should eat and this is why. And. more now than ever before, people think. that plant-based is the way to go. So. often times when you Google like brown. rice or white rice or vegetables or. whatever, you'll only find the the. positive consequences. Like it's very. rare to find the negative consequences. of eating leafy green vegetables, but.

they they exist. The negative con first. of all oxalates. Like um what Miley. Cyrus's old boyfriend, her ex-husband, he had to get [ __ ] surgery because he. was getting these kidney stones because. he was eating so much leafy green. vegetables. Are you kidding me? Yeah. You get oxalates. Yeah. Yeah. Just another reason why I shouldn't eat. greens. But then there's other people. that will tell you that greens are super. healthy for you and there's all these. benefits to eating greens and that a. certain level of I think a certain.

amount of eating greens there's like an. there's there's an a hermetic effect. where your body is like. like certain plants have chemicals that. they release to try to discourage. predation, right? So they'll release. these chemicals and these chemicals that. will they'll discourage animals from. from eating them. In fact, when it goes. back to giraffes, there's certain. giraffes that have actually starved. because, and this is really crazy, when. the giraffes upwind were eating certain.

plants, the g the the leaves downwind. caught the fact that they were being pre. they were being eaten and they changed. their taste profile. So, they release a. certain chemical that makes the the. giraffes discouraged from eating them. And so, these giraffes hated eating this. [ __ ] It's it's really crazy. Nature's. crazy. Yeah. Chemicals that plants. release, they don't plants don't want to. be [ __ ] eaten, right? You know, like. and they have to figure out how to. survive. So, nature has all these. strategies for survival. And one of the.

strategies that plants have is they. release these chemicals in order to make. themselves taste like [ __ ] or even be. poisonous. Well, and I've I've been hearing more. and more of this. And it's interesting. because when I look at what's going on. with your gut, right? And I was just. having this conversation earlier with a. with a retired special forces guy, good. friend of mine, and we were talking about their our life. in the military and what's happening in. our gut biome, right? what's happening. with the balance of your ecosystem down.

here. And we were we've we've we've. lived this life of going overseas and. and overseas repetitively on on a on a. on a yearly sometimes more annual cycle. in these developing world countries and. combat zones. We're nuking our gut every. time we go over there on antimmalarials, anti-inflammatories, all of the different things. We're just. just dropping bombs in our gut. And then. we're eating high preservative foods. So.

meals ready to eat and you're eating. MREs. You're not sleeping. You're nuking. your gut with antibiotics, burning tires and burn pits. And so now, how much is happening down. here? And when when we're talking about. plant-based or carnivore or paleo or any. of these other things, how much is it. really dependent on the individual and. whether or not they were breastfed as. kids, how many anti-inflammatories have. they taken? What type of lifestyle do. they have? Where your ancestors come from? Yeah. Where your ancestors come from. I.

think anytime we try to templatize. system or some type of system, it's just. like, oh, that's going to work for. everybody, right? It's [ __ ] might not. work for anybody. That's what's super complicated about. diet. There there's some people that. they're they eat a vegan diet and it's. perfect for them. They have no problem. with it. And there's other people that. get really sick and there's other people. that eat a carnivore diet and they feel. like dog [ __ ] They feel terrible. They. feel lethargic. And I don't know if. they're doing it right or wrong, but. there's some people that eat it and they. feel great. You got to find what works. for you.

But the thing is people are so dogmatic. about about diet there. It it becomes an. ideology. It becomes like a religion. Yeah. You know, especially like vegans and. carnivores. The vegan people and the. carnivore people are like they're like. the right and the left wing of America. They're like the Antifa and the Proud. Boys. They're like [ __ ] They really. are. They [ __ ] believe 100% in their. way of life only. This is the only way. Yeah. Yeah. And and you know and they'll. tell you based on their own anecdotal. evidence. The thing you need to know though about.

vegans is there's a number I think it's. more there's a giant number of them that. that eat meat when they're drunk. Oh yeah. There's a huge percentage, right? Yeah. I'm not I'm not even going to call. those guys out, but it was interesting. My wife posted holding up like six. fillets like a year or so ago and man a. vegan she got posted on some vegan page. and they just went after her like I hope. you effing die you this, you that. And I. was like damn, she's just having a filt. man. But I think with anything on like the. diet side and fitness, it's super. individualized for success because not.

everything that works for you would work. for me. And I think too a lot of people. are too lazy to figure out and do the. actual effort to see what the best diet. for them. work routine, what requires. work. It's easier just to say, "Eh, I'll. be lazy today.". It's hard to figure out what works for. you. You got to be real honest about it. And you know, so many people they like, like here's the argument for like if you. get drunk and you wind up eating meat, you also get drunk, you eat donuts, right? You also get drunk, you eat like. they were talking about this on Meat. Eater. Uh there's a podcast out right. now with that uh Paul Salino guy that I.

was just talking about. they got into. this and it's uh human beings like. things that taste good but are bad for. you, right? So, if you're going to analyze your diet. and you're going to really do it right, you got to be disciplined. So, like if. you're going to do it, you should really. do blood work. You should really. exercise and and write down your. routines and write down how you feel. after you exercised and then try to. figure out what you're doing right and. what you're doing wrong. And that's one. of the reasons why people like the. carnivore diet is because it's one of. the best elimination diets. basically.

everything except meat. And then you. kind of find out, hey, you know, my body. doesn't react well to this or my, you. know, my body has a real problem with. that. Or some people it's caffeine and. some people it's just [ __ ] whatever. it is. It's like you got to find out. what what's [ __ ] with you. And most. people don't. Most people just, you. know, they go to a doctor, the doctor. prescribes medication, they keep eating. the same old [ __ ] but now they have. chemicals in here that are supposed to. offset whatever negative stuff that they. have in their diet. Well, it's an interesting segue on that,

too, because that's like in part some of. the nonprofit stuff I do on this side is. is solely based on that, the. individualized treatment for veterans. specifically in law enforcement because. you see a lot with the the military, DoD, the VA. It like you're saying, you. show up, don't feel good, and it's a. blanket treatment, right? Here's some. anti-depressants, here's all that, but. unless it's, you know, it's a band-aid. for a bullet hole. And if you're not. actually figuring out what the cause is. and you're treating symptoms, then the. third and fourth order effects of those. treatments are going to make that. individual worse. You know, some of the.

issues they have, like I think I have. PTSD, if that that's a guy saying. they're PTS, they go through and they. find out they have TBI and 40% memory. function, short-term memory function. And so now you go to cognitive therapy. and you get the like guys or gals. working through it that way. But the. only way to figure that out is through. brain scans and blood work and actually. focusing on the individual rather than. being lazy and say, "Hey, here's some. anti-depressants." When the whole time. the issue was something completely. different. And then you have budget problems, right? So the veterans hospitals don't. have enough money to send you through.

all these different scans and all these. different doctors and specialists and. try to fine-tune what's wrong with you. Well, I think that that's, you know, one. of the things that we talk about a lot. is the our our politicians will say our. leadership, they they love to go to war. They love it. Like, you know, hey, how. many times can we send more guys to war? How many countries, you know, and I'm. I'm a participant in that endeavor, by. the way, right? I've invaded Iraq. I've.

spent a lot of my adult life in in war, uh, specifically in both Iraq and. Afghanistan. But the thing that I've. noticed in my adult life is that. politicians love it. They love to send, you know, 18 to 26 year old men and. women. They love to send them to war. What they hate is paying the [ __ ]. bill, right? That's what they hate. They hate paying. for the after effects. They hate. standing by their word in the sense of, "Hey, we're going to take care of you, your all your health problems, your. education. We're going to start really.

uh fixing the VA system." So, there's. long-term care. What most veterans that. I know, what they have to do is they. have to continue to lobby the government. over and over and over for them to prove. that what's happened to their body is. connected to their service. But the. issue that I I continue to see is that. this is a lack of of one, it's a lack of. experience from our politicians. They. don't quite understand what war is and.

the long-term effects on individual. soldiers. uh after decades of service and I think. you know hundreds of my friends every. one of every one of us has some type of. long-term effect from their service. every one of us in the sense of do you. have sleep issues do you have you know. gut issues do you have inflam you know. inflammation are you missing a limb and. really it's it's disgusting the amount. of. uh emphasis there is on going.

and then the lack of emphasis. on care. It really it saddens me as a. society when we have to rely on. nonprofits. to pay for the care of veterans. because the the military or the DoD and. the tax the taxpayers essentially and I. think if they understood this if they. knew they weren't paying for the. long-term care of our service members to. the degree that they needed they would. absolutely have no issues stepping up.

and saying hey we have to do something. about this. Uh, and it's it's really. when we look at the entire system and. how it's it's put together, there's no. way that a person, this is a good story. from my friend Clint, he's missing both. his legs recently from last year during. COVID. What was happening is that his. leg was changing as far as the shape of. it because he was growing an addition. additional layer of bone where his leg. was blown off.

and he needed a new leg but he couldn't. get in to get a new leg. So he was. confined to his wheelchair for almost 6. months during this process and he. couldn't get an appointment. There's no reason why that should. happen. There's literally zero reason. We can't have the largest transfer of. wealth from our taxpayer into the. military-industrial complex in modern. history without zero ethical argument as. far as our entire political system and. then not continue to care for our.

veterans. There's just no way that we. can do that as a society because I think. ultimately that defines us and who we. are collectively and it's not a good. grade. Well, there's a long history of the. United States doing that. Remember when. people were coming back from the first. Gulf War and they were having all these. issues with radiation because they used. that. what what is depleted uranium rounds and. they kind of denied first of all that. they use them. They denied that this. effect was related to that and then. birth defects and all sorts of like re. weird radiation sickness issues that.

people were having. They were calling it. Gulf War syndrome. But they did their. very best to not take care of these. people. Exactly. Well, you look like from Agent. Orange in Vietnam and the long-term. effects of that and and all the studies. and research that's coming out right now. with the burn pits. Yes. And and the carcinogens and how much. cancer, but then they're like, ah, you. can't really draw the conclusion that it. came from burning [ __ ] for 6 months, you. know, and and to Evan's point as well, it's it's it's tragic to be honest that. there's tens of thousands of nonprofits. that are having to do the leg work.

without government grants or funding. The money is coming from people that are. being, you know, participating in. philanthropy saying, "I want to do. something good for these guys and gals. that have real issues." Like to Clint, he's missing his legs and you're going. to make him be in a wheelchair for. months because of. For me, that's just absolutely. unacceptable and there has to be change. What about the story you were telling. right before the show about your friend. who lost her arms? Explain that. uh one. of her good friends, Mary, she's a EOD. tech, um had both of her arms um blown.

off when she tried to uh catch some. ordinance that they were uh going to. dispose of. And uh essentially, she has. a full-time caregiver and she went to go. see her family for I believe it was a. month. And during that time, she didn't. have the caregiver because she was with. her husband and family and they were. taking care of her. Well, the VA. determined after that stint that she. doesn't need a full-time caregiver. because she obviously was fine that. month she was away. And and this is uh a. young lady who amazing person like just. nubs there there's you know she calls.

herself wonder nubs bless her heart. she's [ __ ] hilarious but she she. can't do things that come so easily to. us like grab things use the toilet like. and she has a really funny Twitter about. you know wiping her ass I believe she. said but um the fact that that's. happening and someone in the VA wasn't. like oh that's [ __ ] stupid here you. go full-time caregiver like that I mean. they're just trying to find a way to cut. money left and Right. And it's just. numbers on a piece of paper. Yeah. It's numbers on a piece of paper. And.

it's I I don't think people want to be. reminded, right? One, it's these are bad. decisions as as as as we look back on. history and we look at Iraq in. particular and we look at, you know, the. the the tens of thousands of service. members that served in Iraq to include. myself. I don't know if they want to be. reminded of that that section of our. history on a regular basis either. And. so when we have amputees and we have. health issues with the burn pits that. really I think is is our cause of that.

that we need to talk about as our agent. orange is you know I think John Stewart. just recently brought it up and we're. active in uh the Hunter 7 Foundation. which does a lot of research in this but. there's zero reason why the government. is not funding to the tune of millions. of dollars of research to figure out. what's happening to the service members. with they're directly related, you know, lung and health issues from burn pits. There's zero reason because the only.

reason is because if they acknowledge. that it's a problem, they're going to. have to pay for it. Can you explain burn pits to people? Yeah. Um, it's a it was essentially a. big pit where you would put all of your. garbage, everything. Everything. So, that's batteries, that's. all the plastics, it's anything and. everything. that is required. Yeah. It's fecal matter. It's tires. It's anything that is directly. associated with. uh your living condition in a war that.

you need to to get rid of. And you would. shove it all into a pit and then it. would burn 24 hours a day, 365 days a. year. Whoa. And yes, there you go. And how close is this to where you guys. were living? Uh, in every one of the fire bases I was. at, uh, four and a half years is how. much time I have on the ground. in Iraq. on every one of my fire bases there was. a burn pit. And not only that, you're going to have. young privates out there with sticks.

rolling it over in the smoke with. probably some, you know, knitted fake. mask that they're wearing that they got. and they're the ones in there actually. rotating the trash to burn it through. completely. So, they're completely. subjected to that environment from a. very long time. Whose [ __ ] idea was that? Uh really smart, really, really smart. uh you know officers and contractors, the same guys that decided that you know. the invasion was going to be a really. good idea of Iraq. They're the same. people making those types of decisions. in the way that you know obviously.

when when we look at this now and we. look back on it and we go that's dumb as. [ __ ] There was somebody in a series of. people at that point in time in 2003 to. 2009 in Iraq that were saying this is a. good idea. And that type of mentality I. think is the same type of mentality. today that says this is a good idea for. not for us not to fund the research to. figure out what the [ __ ] is going on so. we can do something about it. And when.

we talk about it, right, our voices are. only so big. But I think if people knew. what was happening with our generation. of veterans, because you know, I'm 43, you're 33, 34, 34. You got all these guys that are coming. up with strange. cancers, like weird. One of the Jaco's. friends and our friends, he just died of. cancer. He's a Medal of Honor recipient. Had a strange heart organ cancer or some.

kind of cancer in his back and he died. six months down the road. And what's. happening and when we talk about the. other foundations and people that are d. diving into some of this research that's. incredibly underfunded, they're starting to have this direct. connection between the burn pits. themselves and the chemicals that. ultimately were exposed to or were. exposed to and a lot of the cancers that. guys are coming when I say that they're. they're developing I guess. obviously. Yeah. I mean it has to be. There's no [ __ ].

way that's good for you. There's no [ __ ] way. And that's in. the same camp. Yeah. Right there in the fog. where you would have to put I I would I. would take a towel and I would wet it. and then I would put it down underneath. my my my my door going into this little. container, little shipping container, and I would put another one on the top. just so I could just so I could sleep. the rest of the evening because the. smoke was so bad from the burn pits as. it would move in. You couldn't sleep. because you couldn't sleep without.

coughing. And it was going that was. every day depending on your on your. firebase. That was every day. So it. wasn't the fact that hey man I got all. my fingers and toes right. you know I survived seven years. I feel. like a counterargument to that would be. like well whatever idiots you signed up. for it. But if I. that's not an argument. I know someone say that but I I think. that if you're willing. find those people. Yeah. Exactly. If you're willing to. spend $100,000 to a million dollars on a. guy or a gal to train them up to do a.

specific job because you look at how. much it costs to put them through. training and school after school after. school and then they get out and we're. just like have fun. Especially guys and. gals like we're talking tier one units. I have friends that have done 16, 17, 18. deployments and it it's an injustice. because they're willing to sacrifice. their life, limit, body, and eyesight. for, you know, I guess the politicians. as to war, but then it's it's it's a. moral obligation as our society that we. have to look out for them when they come. back and it's not happening. It's insane that this is prevalent that.

they have these burn pits at every base. That's [ __ ] insane. And to the for. the most part, most people don't. What is this, Jamie? In Afghanistan at. its peak, more than 400 tons of waste. was disposed using burn pits daily. Jesus Christ. Yeah, but then the question is like, what else do you do? Like San Francisco. fog. One soldier described the smoke as. thick as San Francisco fog. Another. called it like pollen dust. The color of.

smoke could be blue and black or yellow. and orange. however, was mostly black. Everyone inhaled and ingested it. It was. absorbed by their skin. [ __ ]. Which is which is interesting because, you know, I think a lot of people that. have deployed, if you said, "Hey, we got. to get this trash burnt, you know, we. got to do it." Like, well, we signed up. for it. We got it. But then you got to. give them the research and the medical. clinicians that understand this going. forward and after the fact to actually. hopefully not die like this from cancer.

No, no, no, no, no. You got to not do. that. No, I agree. But I'm saying, but. there's no way you would say, "Hey, let's let these guys breathe in this. [ __ ] and then take care of them." No, you should not burn that [ __ ] They've. got to figure out another way to get rid. of it. Agreed. I mean, but even landfills are [ __ ]. terrible. One of the things they're. finding out in these when they're doing. these satellite overviews is that. methane, like me, like they're trying to. find like the largest sources of methane. and what's contributing to greenhouse. gases, it's [ __ ] landfills, right? landfills where you take all your food, they pour it into the ground, they just.

cover it up with dirt, and it's just. leaking methane into the atmosphere. It's [ __ ] terrible. Like, I don't. know what the solution is, but the. solution is definitely not burn it right. where the soldiers are sleeping. No. And I think that. now that as we continue to to evolve. hopefully as a society and we look at. the way that we deploy service members. overseas, we've at least identified this. as a problem. But the the big thing that. I see is we have to continue to to look.

at the problem, fund the research, and. look at the direct connection between. these types of activities, meaning burn. pits. We're we're looking at burn pit. and I'm saying that's burn pit, but it's. also, you know, I know Tim obviously. he's been on the podcast. He's SF guy. I'm I'm an SF guy. But when we look at. the long-term effects of we'll call it. the the special operations community. because I'm I'm I'm obviously from that. subculture. But sleep deprivation, anti-inflammatories,

you know, antimmalarials, burn pits, multiple rotations, PTS, this is a holistic health issue for the. most of these guys returning. if they. don't have direct or visible combat. wounds, they have some type of residual. uh they've been affected by the war in a. long-term residual way. And I think what. happens is as the VA. continues to evolve at least past these. wars, we have to look to look look at it. as a collective and say how do we make.

turn everybody's attention within the VA. system to directly take care of these. guys in a very positive and impactful. way so we don't have people like Mary D. that. get denied a full-time service giver uh. caregiver because. how's that stand now? Is it still the. way it is right now? That was like five. days ago. I haven't talked to her since. I'm actually going to call her after. But yeah, at least give the resources. and the funding necessary because I'm. sure VA as an organization wants to do. good and wants to do great things. I.

think that when people just say the VA. sucks, it's the wrong way to look at us. It's the way it's a how do we critically. think and solve the problem and put in. process in a plan to go here's the. resources you need so we can fix the. issues that are right in front of her. face. Yeah. I couldn't imagine being a VA bean. counter or being someone who works for a. VA bean counter who gets the call that. you have to like cut the budget by X. amount. So figure out where you going to. slash. these benefits like and then you have to. look at these people that you're talking.

to either on the phone or through email. You can't even look at them as a human. You got to look at them as a number on a. ledger. Yeah. It's crazy. It's crazy. And then you. have, you know, incredible giving nation. that backfills that need through, you. know, nonprofit organizations. Yeah. I I. I I guess my only intent in that. conversation is I think the government. needs to do a much better job of leading. the conversation than than being towed. around by the entire conversation. They. need to get out in front of it. They. have to take responsibility for it. And.

I think that's the big one which is. taking responsibility for you know war. just in general and then taking. responsibility for the after effects the. individual soldiers sailors marines post. war that just seems to me the thing to. do and I think most people if they. realize these things were happening I. think the last time I tried to schedule. a VA appointment it was going to take me. 200 plus days to get in to see uh a. physician you know about a a shoulder.

injury. Really? Yeah. 200 days. 200 days to get on the list. And. I I'm I'm nobody special. I'm not I'm. not, you know, missing anything, right? But there are a lot of people that have. been directly affected by this that need. care. And now we have the ability, I. think, and based on the the current. administration to go see a primary care. provider outside of the VA, which I. think was a huge step. Uh but there's. still a lot to do, right? And there's, you know, for us.

having this company and what we're doing. with it, you know, it's a big it's a big. part of the mission of how we run the. company, what we're doing with the. company. It is a huge part of our. mission just in general. It's something. we do every day. It. and it's awesome and I think that's one. of the reasons why people love you guys. so much. I mean, it's uh the amount of. support that you guys have out there in. the public. I think did I send you that. picture when I was in Italy and that guy. was in front of me in line? Yeah. Guy in front of me in line with a Black. Rifle coffee t-shirt on. I'm like, "All. right, man." It's it's there's something.

to what you guys are doing that. resonates with people that it's not just. a coffee brand, but it's a coffee brand. that supports first responders, military. veterans, and it it means a lot to. people, I think, because of that. Yeah. I think something I'm really proud. of with the company, too, is giving a. more like visceral understanding and. perspective of the veteran experience. Because before the company and kind of. the the commercials and stuff we did, I. think there was a very singular. perspective of what a veteran was. It. was kind of the chest beating, you know, chiseled Navy Seal and. tattooed, bearded.

Yeah. And while that exists, I think. that it's it's good to shed light on. Wait a minute, you're tattooed and. bearded. I know, right? I didn't go full Navy Seal and gel my. hair today. Sorry. Um, but like bringing light to the community. that there's so many creative people and. veterans are humans. we're just we're. just Americans and and a lot of a lot of. these guys and gals have other. professions and they're talented, they're artists, they're and I and I. think humanizing that a little bit. allows people not to look at veterans. like the two ways that I've seen a lot. throughout the years or you're their. Captain America or you're a pill popping.

depressed veteran that, you know, goes. to bed every night beating your wife and. you're like I 90% of us are in the. middle of just people that wanted to do. hopefully normal people trying to do. some extraordinary things in the name of. a free society. I think there's it's just a cool thing. that people like supporting companies. like yours that that do have a great. message and that do do good things. It's. a it's a nice aspect that that you guys. can put that message out there and. people understand what you're about and.

and that this is a company that was. really started by two guys who are. veterans. I mean, it's a big company. now, but really just came down to you. guys and your love of coffee and just. deciding to do this and then start doing. good with the money. And people love. that, man. They really do. It resonates. with people a lot, you know. I mean, I've had Black Rifle T-shirts on before. and people talk to me about it. It means. a lot to them. Well, I mean, we're thankful that it. means a lot to him because we wouldn't. be in the position we are to kind of. focus on the things that we think are. matter and support the organizations. that we do. And I mean, I mean, I think.

that's both of us is end user and end. user experience is exactly what we want. to have a great quality product and. something that motivates people to wake. up in the morning and kick ass. And if. they didn't purchase it, we wouldn't be. here doing what we're trying to do. There's also a thing about with you. that's like with you Evan, you you're so. it's so obviously authentic. Like. there's a video of you roasting coffee. with a frying pan over a fire. Like you. you're such a dork with this stuff. It's. so obvious that it's real. I mean, I.

love people that geek out on [ __ ] I. just [ __ ] love it. Even if it's. something that and I love coffee, but. even if it's something that I don't even. love. I just love when people are really. into [ __ ] It's very contagious. Well, and it it's it's super fun as as I was. talking earlier, right? It's I'm I'm. really fortunate just as as a you know, an adult in America right now, so many. different ways. But I get to I get to do. this coffee when I say I'm in coffee. every day and I get to I get to explore.

any piece of the entire aspect of coffee. anytime I want and get as detailed into. it as as much as I want. But the thing. that I've found. that is just as interesting, if not more. interesting than coffee is as the. company gets bigger, you know, developing our ecosystem as a company. We have 400 employees now, right? It's. it's a it's a bigger company, 50 plus. percent of them are veterans. And as I. look at our ecosystem and how we support.

different nonprofits and what we're. doing on the company, it's it's it's an. incredible high, it sounds like. commercial, but I love seeing this. incredible high quality product because. I love going to these countries in. Central and South America, working. directly with the farmers and then. pulling it back through and then uniting. the customer and the company as one in. this really [ __ ] cool ecosystem. And.

it wasn't something that I started out. necessarily thinking about where, you. know, I wanted to be in charge of a. company of 400 people. That's not what I. started out to do. I literally was. roasting coffee in my garage because I. was trying to find something else to do. when the CIA told me that I couldn't. work for him anymore. Right. Like, [ __ ]. Like, why' they tell you you couldn't work for. him anymore? Oh, man. Hey, you know, a wide variety of reasons. You know, I. worked there for nine years. Um, I.

deployed probably seven out of those. nine years. I was angry, you know, and I'm and I. don't want to say that um it, you know, it was directly my fault, but the. organization that I started with in Iraq. and kind of went from Iraq to. Afghanistan. and left later, uh I was I was tired and burned out and. I was [ __ ] angry. And honestly, they. had probably every right to tell me to. hit the road. Uh. and I'm glad that they did. At the end.

of the day, it was a wakeup call. Wide. variety of reasons. Um, I was callous. I. was emotionally unavailable. There was a. [ __ ] laundry list of things that were. broken. And. how did you get past all that? Um, you know, I met my wife in Denver and we. got pregnant. And. I hate when guys say that. We. we she got pregnant. No, I I I [ __ ] my. wife and she got pregnant. Yeah, there.

you go. Word. Yeah. And. I I really thought about it. and it was it was hard for me to think. about it, but I was most fearful of not. being able to love my daughter because I. didn't have the emotional capacity to do. that. And it was eye opening. It was. actually very scary um because that's. not the kind of person that I wanted to. be. And. and we've all seen examples of people.

who are that and then realize it later. in life. It's the saddest thing in the. world is when you see uh a parent and. then they have a grown kid that they. [ __ ] up. Yeah. You know, because they weren't because. they did have all these other problems. they never dealt with and then it's too. late. And then you have this angry child who. you were never there for and then you're. like, "Fuck." Exactly. I looked at it. um and I knew in order to be a a loving. father, uh a good husband and a good.

man, I I had to change a lot of [ __ ]. Like I really had to have a very. difficult series of conversations with. myself and give myself a lot of [ __ ]. tough love. And starting a business was. one of the things that I needed to do. because it gave me I couldn't work for. anyone else after that. I was kind of. done with um working for other people. Uh I was not necessarily searching for.

purpose but I knew that I really wanted. to do something with coffee and you know. wide variety of reasons that I love. coffee. black rifle was an homage to my. service rifle. Uh, and I found myself. wanting to teach myself a new skill. And. then what I wrote was a mission. statement. And my mission statement was. just a mission statement for my life in. general, which was to transition out of. government service and live a happy and. fulfilling life. Had nothing to do with.

money, you know, running a company or. hiring people. I just wanted to find how. to be happy and fulfill myself outside. of being a commando or a CIA guy, whatever that that definition for myself. was. But more importantly, as I've I've. continued to develop myself, and I'm not. saying I'm even close to being a a a. template for anyone. uh it's it's a.

constant. um it's a constant state of evolution to. be a a better man. And I also knew that. all the lies that I had told myself up. to that point of, you know, I'm a Green. Beret, so you know, I'm I'm less than a. 1 percentile and I'm a [ __ ] badass. and I'm this and I'm that. All of that. would have been a lie if I would have. been a bad father. All of that would. have been meaningless. Would have been.

garbage. It's just propaganda. Every one of my combat rotations, every. one of my friends that is has been. killed or maimed in this war, it would. have been a complete unjustifiable lie. to myself to say if I don't be the best. man that I possibly can be and work on. it now, then all of that is for not. It's all [ __ ]. So. I I I literally after my first year in.

business, I was sitting in my garage. and I had sold everything that I had. owned. Um, you know, and I was chips in. on this entire thing and I didn't have. anything left to sell. I didn't have I. was living this shitty rental. My wife. was, you know, packing boxes and. roasting coffee and I was getting kind. of down on myself and I I was like. crying on this Pelican case in my.

garage. And I I it was a distinct turning point. in my life where I said, "Get up, stop making excuses, stop being. a [ __ ] [ __ ] and do something about. your life." And when I say that, like. that's the conversation. That's the. exact conversation I had with my at. myself. And I've had that conversation. almost every day in the last several. years about just how can I continue to.

develop this ecosystem that meets my. mission statement for my company that. quite literally has nothing to do with. money. But how do I continue to be. positive impact in my environment versus. negative taking away or you know. contributing to toxicity which is man I. I I I don't want to have anything to do. with that life anymore. There's a lot of people that have um. they have a problem with the way they. are. and they they make a decision to change.

but they fall back into their old. patterns because it's comfortable and. because they're they're used to that. So, how did you avoid doing that? Like, how did you how did you make real. change? Um, well, one, it's recognizing it, right? It's it's kind of recognizing that you. have an addiction. when you have an. addiction um. uh you know when you have emotional or. anger issues and you're you know you're.

you're just angry or whatever it is for. for for no real reason. Uh, I think one. you have to recognize you have a. problem. And I think, you know, I've. continued to recognize that I have a. problem. And it it it's it's like. quitting a habit or anything that that. that you're doing, whether it's quitting. smoking or, you know, um, working. through a a very disciplined diet. it it. it's every minute you have the ability. sometimes every second you have the.

ability to make a decision and have a. conscious effort to focus on improvement. and when I feel myself because there are. times when I feel myself sliding. backwards a little bit into more of uh. negative Evan. uh and we do it all the time and and. this is one thing I will say about the. guys that we have together is it's not. just myself it's you know my friends and. and in the military they're called it. sounds so ridiculous but it is it's like.

we have our battle buddies for a lack of. a better term but Matt and Jared our. other partner um we we formed a team and. the other people within our company that. formed a team. we can talk to each other in a way. that's very candid we can emotionally. expose and the other thing is This is. Matt and I will do it all the time. If. we're talking and we're talking about. negative and we're grinding ourselves.

into a negative hole, we're like, "Stop. Stop right now. We got better [ __ ] to. talk about. Pull ourselves out. Dust. ourselves off." And. you can't if if you're by yourself, it's. much more difficult. I think when you. have really good friends and for for us, we're business partners. uh I can be that guy for him and he can. be that guy for me and Jared can be the. guy for all of us and we have really. good friends. We have good business. partners. We have good people in the.

company that. they help. They really do. And leaving. one culture, one subculture of, you. know, really tight-knit special. operations group of guys starting a. business by yourself is difficult. enough, right? It's a very I would. imagine it's a it's a extremely. difficult endeavor. doing it without your friends and people. you can trust and people you can rely. on. I can't even imagine because the. things that we've had to go through in.

the last several years and the reminders. like Matt won't let me be a ship. It's. just not possible. He won't if if I. start being a um a. he went to Desire for like a week and I. was like you going to hunt or [ __ ]. work, bro. I'm just kidding. But it's true. He won't he won't let me. be a [ __ ] and I won't let him be a. [ __ ] either in the sense of if I see. him dragging if there's something going. on what I call him like what's going on.

how are you doing what what can I talk. to you about so I think one it's. focusing on yourself identifying you. have a problem looking at every minute. and every second at times depending on. when it is uh on how to be better and. then building an building a supportive. team around you that understands what's. going on and how they can continue to. get you up. And we've had to do this for. a lot. We we've had to cut a lot of. toxic people out of out of our lives. Like we've had to cut some toxic people.

out of our lives because they they're. just negative weight. They'll hold you. back. That's probably been the most. challenging thing for for me over the. years has been there's always going to. be extraneous influences that impact. you. But I've had to change environments. about five different times and find the. right team for me. and that you know my. core competencies work with theirs. Um. but because a lot of people have asked. this over the years like how did you get. the team like well you went through. seven different teams you know toxic. relationships or ones that just didn't. mesh well together and the hardest part. of that is just taking that leap of.

faith and saying well this is going to. be really weird but I'm packing my rucks. sack. It's what I did. I had a good. life. I was making a lot of money in my. business at the time and you know I I. didn't like the direction things were. going and Evan called me and was like do. you want to do you want to jump into. Utah and let's go and I packed up moved. out of my house broke up with my. girlfriend at the time drove to Utah in. my Tundra and one bag and said well time. to start over at 26 7 years old and I. completely started over. where I live in. an Airbnb for 6 months and I think at.

face value that was terrifying. But the. second I landed in Utah and got in that. Airbnb and I was like, "Fuck, all I got. to worry about is the the one bag of. clothes I have and going to work. tomorrow, something that I'm passionate. about and that I love and the rent's. paid so we're good." And and from there. on like I've just chased that feeling. and then all the toxicity that kind of. has impacted my life with relationships. just get out. It's also got to help that. you're doing a business with friends as. opposed to doing a business with a bunch. of corporate dorks. Yeah. You know, I I I see people that are.

involved in business and I see the. conversations they have and it's almost. like they're speaking some strange. language, some fake language. They all. get together and and talk corporate talk. and then they get out of there and they. take these big they take this big deep. breath and they have a drink or they. drive home because they're they're. living [ __ ] They're living a lie. all day long. They're pretending to be. someone they're not. I I I call that the ivory tower. syndrome. You know, it's they just blow. hot air and and don't do anything and. and they don't believe in their mission.

And I think that's been the most. impactful thing for us is we believe in. it and it's easy to be authentic and or. communication style between the team and. and again the hardest part is probably. maintaining that cultural ecosystem in. the company especially as you scale it. because you want people to be open, candid, radical transparency. Obviously, we're not saying, you know, making fun. of people, but we we want to be able to. say, "Fuck, let's get this done instead. of. and and that's why I think we've done so. well so far is because we just stick to.

the mission and grind it out." I mean, we're all kind of bunch of knuckle. draggers or dumb, but we just outwork. our intelligence. Intelligence. Yeah. And I think to to your point, you. know, maintaining mission focus, you. know, all of these things that we. learned in the military, write mission, write your mission statements, maintain. your mission focus, uh radical. transparency, you know, I I'm a zealot at the end of. the day. I love coffee. I love the. company. I love the ecosystem. Um, and it's easy for me. I can go in.

and high-five everybody and and we can. joke around in the company. Uh, we have. an incredible. atmosphere as far as the ecosystem of. the company. I love going to work there. I would hate to go to work in a really. um in a corporate environment. I. actually hate the word corporate. Yeah. Because it's it to me it just says this. is stodgy spreadsheetdriven [ __ ]. where you've got a bunch of people that. pontificate about uh things that they.

have no idea what they're talking about. And what they want to do is they want to. run a company only for the profit versus. the pursuit of authenticity under a real. mission. Uh I there's a huge difference. I've stepped into corporate um. environments a lot and especially like. finance guys are some of the worst. [ __ ] people ever in the sense of you. know they're not funny. They have no. sense of humor. I I've told bankers to. get the [ __ ] out of my office when. they're like 15 minutes late just to get.

some like payback. and how many times. that they've screwed good people over. Um, so the the the company itself in the. sense of any company and how you kind of. create that environment, I don't like the standard corporate. templatized system that people work. through. It's it's really it's confusing. to me as well because you know when. people are fake. Yeah. You know, when you're having a.

conversation with some executive and. he's like, "Oh, yeah, Susie, you're an. incredible asset to the company and it's. like you don't know who that person is, they it's it's inauthentic. It's fake.". And I would hate to go to work in a. place like that every day. And most people do. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's a giant problem with. human beings today is that most people. don't have a purpose. They don't feel. good about what they're doing. You know, um it's that thorough quote, uh most men live lives of quiet. desperation. And that that is real, man.

That that's really what a lot of people. are going through every day. Just not. having any real real connection to what. they're doing where they feel good about. it. They feel like they have a purpose. They feel like it makes like they they. matter. Like they really do matter, you know. And then when a lot of these. people when they wind up getting fired. by their company, uh, you know, after 30 years of working. there and they realize that they didn't. they were nothing, they they didn't mean. anything. It wasn't important. It's. devastating. I think a lot of people like kind of. succumb to like that social construct.

and and like this is what you have to do. the nineto-5 kind of thing, but not to. be a fatalist, but something like my. positive mindset like we're all born. terminal. The second we come out of the. womb, we're going to [ __ ] die. And I've always wanted to be super proud. cuz, you know, I think there's certain. aspects of the former jobs I had, you. have to kind of agree and be comfortable. with the fact that there's a high. probability of dying and or. life-changing events. And I think once. you realize that it's not a matter of uh.

if it's going to happen, it's when. Whether that's when I'm 60 and have a. heart attack or I live to be 90 or I die. tomorrow. And that drives me every. single day because I look back and go, I. don't want to miss out in this [ __ ]. crazy thing called life. You know, it it. you have one chance to like live this. cool [ __ ] experience whether or not. you believe in after life or not. But. we're all going to die. And it's it's. very bizarre for me that people don't. take leaps of faith because they get so. trepidacious in everything that they do. and they're like, "Whoa, what if?" And. they hate that uncomfortable feeling.

You just [ __ ] punch it in the face. and go get it. But the problem is roots. You know, people they grow roots before they know. what they actually want to do. And what. I mean by that is look, you go to. college, right? And then you have. student debt. So these are roots, right? Now you you have to pay off that student. debt. So you have these obligations. Then you get a job and maybe you lease a. car, maybe you get an apartment. Now you. have roots. You have you have bills you. have to pay. You have obligations that. you can't sherk. So you may might maybe. you try to save. So you save a little. Maybe you save 10% of your your income.

every week. So you're putting it away. You're putting it away and you realize. how quickly that goes away. You have. taxes and and then you find yourself. five, six, seven years in. You're like, I want to make a change. But you have. all this [ __ ] that you're paying for. And then you reward yourself for this. terrible job that you hate by getting a. new car or maybe you you buy a [ __ ]. boat or what what you know that's what. people do. And then you're 38 and you're. like, "God damn it, I [ __ ] hate my. life." But now maybe you have a child, maybe you're married, maybe your wife. doesn't work anymore because you know.

she's pregnant and you're like, "Fuck, like what am I going to do with my. life?" And then you find yourself stuck. and you you you take pills, you take. anti-depressants, you do something. And. this is this is the story of the. American life that is untold. And this. is a lot of people's existence. They. find themselves in this meaningless path. and then they they they hear about guys. like you and they get excited. They're. like, "Maybe I can figure this out." And. some of them do, and some of them start. a business in their garage. And some of. them get together with their friends and.

say, "Let's let's partner up. Let's do. something. And let's take a chance. Like, let's plan, and two years from. now, we we'll we'll make the leap. Let's. start it online. Let's do something.". And that's the that's the real American. dream is finding independence, being. your own boss, finding something that. you really love instead of just doing a. job, finding a job that actually means. something to you. Yeah. It's like finding the excuse to do. it. And I think there's two avenues. there. You can always find an excuse not. to do something, but if you look for the.

excuse of why you should, your output's. going to be so much better. And and I've. had that conversation with people where. they say, "I just don't have the time.". You can always find time to work out. Like you want to be your fitness goals, find a [ __ ] retention band and a. kettle bell and we'll [ __ ] you up. Trust. me. Give me 30 minutes. And I think. that's applicable to anything and. everything. If you wanted to get into. music, you can find 20 minutes in the. day or get 20 minutes less of sleep to. practice your guitar or learn graphic. design. I mean, the opportunity is out. there. Spec especially with the. technological era. Like everything's.

free right now. You can go on YouTube. and become a master in any any technical. skill for the most part. You might not. have the accreditation of a degree, but. it's there. The information's there. The. only inhibitor is you. These I don't have the time. People. don't know what the [ __ ] they're talking. about. I hate that. I could find you some folks. I can find. you some like my friend Cam Haynes. That. that [ __ ] works a full-time job, eight hours a day and often runs a. marathon a day, right? And then he goes at home and then he. shoots his bow for hours and then he. lifts weights. So shut the [ __ ] up.

There's people that find time. That's like over and over and over, you. know? It's Cam. Like I I love following. Cam because guess what? It's nothing but. positivity comes out of his mouth. He's. freaking a rock star when it comes to. all of the things that you just. mentioned. Guys like that exist. You. don't have to be, you know, a Gogggins. or a Hannes or a Dudley or any of these. guys. It's a matter of, hey man, you. want to make some changes. You're going. to have to also risk a little bit, too. And that's one thing.

You're going to have to experience. discomfort. You're going you're going to have to. suck it up. Yeah, it's going to hurt a little bit, if you want to have stronger legs, you. know, squats aren't the best [ __ ]. thing in the world to do, you know, twice a week or once a week because they. don't feel good. That's the way your legs get strong. That's the way you get stronger. You don't grow from being comfortable. No, it doesn't work that way. You got to. experience that awful feeling. And. that's why most people don't grow. Most people don't grow because they. gravitate towards comfort. Well, and. that's one thing I will say about this. is, you know, combat to me taught me so.

many different things about myself, but. the one thing that it taught me was that. life is finite. And in order to live, in order to live, you got to risk, you. got to risk it and you got to suck a. little bit. you know, for the payoff at. the end, you know, that that last minute. of light that you have in this in this. world. You don't want to be sitting. there doing an audit of all the things. you should have done. That would be the. [ __ ] worst. That's I really the only thing I truly.

truly fear in life is to be on a. deathbed and go, I should have done. this. I mean, I'm sure there'll be small. things, but that that change that that's. the driving force in everything of my. life is I don't want the regrets. Yeah. Not even a letter. like I you know those. are the things where it's like I want to. jump out of planes. I want to you know. experience a foreign language. I want to. I want to go to war. When you look at. those things a younger when I looked at. them as as a younger man and I look at. them now I'm not going to be you know.

whatever age it is thinking back going. man I really wish I would have been. tried to be a commando like I've already. got that. Uh now I can focus I think a. lot more of my energy on how do we you. know become a better father, how to. become a better business owner, a better. friend. But I I didn't leave anything on. the table. in the previous 20 years. I didn't leave. any of that [ __ ] on the table going, man, I really wish I would have done. that. No, man. Like I. I pushed it as hard as I could with is.

is with whatever was given to me. Like I. did the best that I could with what I. got. And and honestly, I'm probably. about I'm I'm operating I think at about. 150% right now. I'm overextending what. capacity I have up here to try to put it. all together. Like it's honest like I'm. just trying to [ __ ] run it as hard as. I can because the machine. that I was given is like I'm very. fortunate. I understand that. But I got. to run this thing way past its. capability to get the most out of it. Now, there's some guys that, you know,

maybe they're phenoms and they're much. more intelligent than I am. That would. be, you know, one of the things I I joke. around I say is like, "Man, I'd love to. be an astrophysicist. Unfortunately, I'm. just not that bright, so I'm going to. have to settle for what the [ __ ] I'm. doing.". But would you? Yeah. Theoretical physicist would be. [ __ ] awesome. I'd love to do that. I don't know, man. No. No. I think you found the right spot. That's I think people find the right. spot. If you if you put enough attention. into what you're doing and you gravitate. towards what you love, you find the. right spot. Yeah, you do. You do. I used.

to think that I was a giant loser. because I couldn't work a job cuz I was. like, I'm just too lazy. I'm just too. undisiplined. I really used to think. that. And then I realized like, oh no, I'm not lazy. I just hate things that. suck. Right. You're probably a creative. It's pretty. much the same as me. Yeah. But once I figured out like things that. I loved, I'm like, "Oh, look. All of a. sudden, I'm not lazy anymore. Now I'm. obsessed. And I used to think I used to think that. was a weakness that like, oh, I'm not. disciplined. I'm just obsessed. I'm just.

a crazy person. So if I find something that I like, I. can get really good at it because I'm. crazy. Right. And then I realized like, oh, but all. that [ __ ] that they tell you about like. ADHD and being hyperactive and not being. to pay attention, that's actually you. have energy. Yeah. Right. You don't want to sit in a. [ __ ] chair when you're 10 years old. while some person who doesn't give a. [ __ ] about you or what they're teaching. is just rambling on in front of you and. you're just going crazy. You can't wait. to get out of there and the you know and. the doctor's like, "This man needs to be. on some medication. This young man has. problems paying attention." Well, he.

should. He should. Well, he's got a goddamn. chance cuz he can maybe he could [ __ ]. rock it out of this system. Maybe he's. got enough energy to get away from the. gravity of this [ __ ] that you're. teaching them every day. So instead of. saying like, "Oh, this this girl needs. to be on medication." Maybe that girl. has a goddamn chance of escaping the. hell that you live in, right? I I couldn't I can't agree more with. that. I think all of us have this like. ball of [ __ ] energy and it zaps. everything around us. And if you try to. point it in a direction where it doesn't. work, like I could never be a finance. guy, could never be a numbers guy, not a.

any of that. I am too [ __ ] ADHD. But. what that allows me to do is think in. the clouds and be super creative and. write and build content and music and. all these things. And we had a really. cool exercise in the business. We did. kind of like um remember when uh the. creative problem? Yeah, creative problem solving. And we. all had to take this like pretty. intricate test and it was the best one. I've ever done. But it pretty much kind. of tells you where you live as far as if. you're like an ideator, a developer, um. and and all these characteristics of. your brain and that's kind of how you. build a team. Cuz Evan's like an.

implement. He's like, "Get this [ __ ]. [ __ ] done." And I'm more of like a. ideiator where I come up and develop. ideas, but then I don't have the the. follow through, at least on like the. business side. And so learning about. yourself, just because you live in the. clouds doesn't mean that, you know, you. have ADHD and you need to take anti-. freaking whatever. I just think we have this terrible idea. of how to how to develop human beings. There's not a kid in the world that. wants to sit at a desk eight hours a. day. There's not a kid in the world. No, it's not normal. But those that do, great. There's a big.

system for you, right? But even them, but even them, they probably like like. it doesn't mean that you can't be an. accountant or an astrophysicist like but. you need activity and children are. deprived of activity most of the day. I and I should have been out like. portaging boats on like really nasty. out, you know, in in in British Columbia. somewhere by some [ __ ] dude that was, you know, here's 10 minutes worth of. work. now you're just gonna work you.

into the ground to and when I say that. it's that's the that's the level of I. guess patience that I had for any of it. in the sense of you can't sit a kid at a. desk at least kids like me for six or. eight hours a day. or anybody in this room. anybody my daughters are my daughter's. six years old now we were just having. this conversation about school is VTC. because of you know co. Mhm. Man, she's six years old and you. want her to sit in front of a laptop for.

six hours a day. You should watch those classes. I sat in. while my 10-year-old was at school and I. watched how the teachers talk and I I I. watched like what was going on. I'm. like, "Holy shit." And she looked at me, she goes, "It's so boring.". Yeah. She just looked up. It's so boring. Are they just talking monotone the whole. time? Well, in Texas, they let him go to. school, right? She's in school here. She goes to actual. school, you know, and uh my 12-year-old. goes to school next week. She was doing. video for the first couple weeks and. then they're easing them back into. school. Look, this is this is a. travesty. These kids are they're getting.

a a especially kids in public school. systems, especially kids that have. working parents, this is [ __ ]. devastating to them. Devastating. And. it's going to [ __ ] up their development. for years to come because like if you if. you like if you took 6 months and didn't. learn anything for 6 months, that [ __ ]. your development. Well, guess what? That's what happened. That's what. happened with a lot of these kids. They're not learning [ __ ] when they're. sitting in front of their laptop. They're barely paying attention. Yeah. You can't expect kids to sit in. front of a laptop. Like terrible. It's a.

terrible idea and it's a terrible way to. experiment on kids, which is you're. you're pulling this out of your, you. know, you're pulling this out of your. ass. Yes, I think this is going to work. Let's put them in front of a laptop and. we're going to sit them there for six or. eight hours a day or whatever it is. We're going to give them a lunch break. So having this conversation with my. wife, I'm like, "This is a horrible idea. that they're experimenting with kids.". Just ultimately, you have to give them. some type of pre-existing assignments, but you can't sit them in front of a.

laptop. The other thing is, I don't want. to teach my kids how to sit in front of. a laptop for 6 hours a day to give them. the discipline to do that. They were telling my daughter she had to. eat lunch in front of the laptop. It's the same thing. Yeah. You have to eat lunch in front of. the laptop. Yes. They have to see you eat lunch. I go, "No, you don't.". I go, "Let me talk to the teacher. Get. the [ __ ] out of here." You don't have to. eat lunch in front of the laptop. Come. sit at the kitchen table. Let's talk. What's like the desired outcome in that. form of education? They're [ __ ] They don't know what. the [ __ ] they're doing. This is all.

making it up on the go. Yeah. The I if. they could justify in some way that a. kid should eat lunch in front of a. laptop instead of eat lunch at their. kitchen table. Like why? Why? So you could see them eat lunch. Get the. [ __ ] out of here. Yeah. And why why would you ever think. that that's acceptable to do this? And. well, it's also the teachers don't have. any oversight either. And some of these. teachers are so bored. They're so bored and boring. And and. I've watched them talk rude to the kids. I'm like, this is gross. This is it's so bad for them.

Well, and and at least now. the the one shining star I will say to. this is that hopefully we come out of. this with the ability of some type of. homeschooling system that actually. works. Because the one thing about. homeschooling for, you know, the nation. is, you know, what's the one stereotype. of homeschooled kids that's we've all. kind of worked? Religious psychos. Yeah. They're weirdos, right? Weird. But now, but now we're we're at least. living in a time where.

hopefully this catches up and we can. educate children from our home and maybe. a a balance between the home and the. school. Yeah. That that gives them some form of. adjustment that works for them. That's. the one thing I will say about this. where I'm like, God, this has been a. good thing for from from a perspective. of from in my life, which is I don't. travel as much. I've chopped a bunch of. travel out of my schedule. Uh my wife. stays home with the kids. I've been home.

with the kids way more than I have in. the last five years. And it's it it's. it's forced us to look inside the family. a lot more than, you know, on the go, constantly driving outside of the. family, doing things outside of the. family. It's really forced us to be, I. think, a much tighter family unit with. the with the four of us. And I'm always. trying to find the positive in it. regardless. Like, I'm not I'm there's. plenty of negative out there. We've all.

talked about it and hear it on the. [ __ ] news every day. I will say the. forcing function in all of this has made. my family I think tighter much tighter. and I I hope it has for a lot of other. people but I know it's been very. detrimental to a lot of family units too. because they have a lot of financial. they have a lot of financial issues they. have you know domestic violence issues. but for my family it it's really forced. us to look inside and really work on us.

and so I can say we're going to try to. come out of this much better family. Well, it's like all struggles, right? Some struggles make a better person, some struggles destroy you. Yeah. And it. really it depends on what the struggle. is and where you're at when you come. into it. And I think for a lot of. people, this is a real eye opener about. your health. I mean, and that's what I'm. hoping that more people pay attention to. your your body. There's a direct. correlation between your health and your. ability to overcome diseases. And I I. really really hope that that message.

gets out there and that more people. understand that if you are obese, if you. are obese, if you you do have a bad. diet, these are things that you can. handle. You can do something about this. and this is the wakeup call. Please like. [ __ ] take care of yourself because. it may be the difference between. catching this [ __ ] and living through it. and it maybe in some cases breezing. right through it. Like I I have a bunch. of friends that caught it and like yeah, I had a cough for a day. what the [ __ ]. is going on? Like quite a few friends. that had a cough for a day and felt like.

[ __ ] for two or three days afterwards. and then we're done with it and we're. working out five days later. Most all my healthy friends is that way. too. They're athletic. It's like I. coughed a little bit, kind of felt sick. one day and the next day I was fine. Like. Paul Rodriguez, okay, who's a friend of. mine who's a comedian. He's I mean. Paul's got to be in his 60s, right? He. was famous in the [ __ ] 70s. Paul Paul. I I tested everybody and uh we we did. this comedy store documentary and I. tested Paul. He was the only one who. tested positive uh for the antibodies. and I go when do you think he got it and.

he goes I don't know. He goes he goes I. think I had a cold in February. He's. like he had a cold for a couple days and. he was he does you know he [ __ ]. parties and he's in his you know he's. he's not out there eating wheat grass. and [ __ ] doing squats. He's he's he's. he's having fun. That's. he's a comic, you know. He's a real old. school comic. Getting down, partying, fine. Walked it off, you know? I mean, what the [ __ ] is going on? But for. people that are unhealthy, I just really.

hope that this is this is the wakeup. call. Take care of your goddamn body. Take care of your health. Take some vitamin D and zinc and C and. and just make that a priority. Make it a. priority to whereas if you got sick, you're not worried. It's interesting, too, because a lot of things that people. rely on as far as substances will. absolutely go away if you follow a. healthy diet and exercise routine. I. mean, the euphoria and like what how I. feel post-workout is one of the most. amazing feelings I've ever heard. So,

it's not only like a bodily function, it's more it's a cognitive one as well. Just. all the endorphins you get and you're. like, I'm ready for the day and then you. feel accomplished. I mean, it's like. incremental success makes great success. and those little wins throughout the. day. And I think working out is one of. them. More people need that feeling of. [ __ ] I feel good. Yep. Food is probably the most overused. tool to deal with anxiety and exercise. is the most underused tool to deal with. depression. And you those two things like food will. [ __ ] you up if you just eat to to cool.

calm yourself. Yeah. And exercise will help you in a gigantic. way if you use it to to deal with. depression and anxiety and everything. else. So, let me let me ask the question. though because I've heard you talk about. it on the show, which why is it that we. can't have that national conversation? Why why do you think our I mean, we just. had the presidential debates last night, but why. those were not debates? That was [ __ ] I I put on my my. Instagram. I'm like, we don't need me.

You need big John McCarthy. John McCarthy. Yeah. Get the UFC ref in. here. Let's go. But he's the the he's. like the most authoritative UFC referee. cuz he was a cop for years. He's one of. those STAND OVER THERE. STAND OVER. THERE. LIKE HE HE [ __ ] controls the. situation, you know? He would have. controlled that, man. Yeah. Why can't we have the. conversation? Because you can't be mean. can't say, "Hey, stop shoving sugar and. [ __ ] saturated [ __ ] and [ __ ]. oils and and vegetable grease and all.

the crap and [ __ ] all the nonsense. that people stuff in their face. Stop. Stop doing that. You're fat. IT'S [ __ ] YOU UP.". YEAH. There's a [ __ ] picture, man, from. like the 19 early 1900s of a guy at a. carnival and he's the the fat guy at a a. sideh show, right? And he's a normal fat. guy for today, right? If you looked at this picture and like. you know bearded lady, he was an. exhibit. He was so he was so fat that.

people are like, "Holy [ __ ] look at. this guy." You could see when Disneyland. was open, you could see a hundred of. those guys rolling around on scooters. He's a normal person today. Like a. normal overweight person. Because people. didn't have the access to [ __ ] back. then. Like to get that fat was hard, right? When you don't have that kind of. sugar in your diet, you don't have that. the the amount of gluten and grains and. [ __ ] nonsense that people eat today, it's so easy to get that fat. But back. then it was really hard. See if you can. find that picture, Jamie.

I typed it in and I found a lot of giant. fat guys. from back then. But see, but find the. one that was the guy was he was in a. side. I don't That's what I typed in. I don't. know how to find that particular one. Harold Huge alive 712 pounds. Well, go. to the one in the upper leftand corner. Look at that guy. That guy you could. find anywhere today. Yeah. Yeah. You you can you can cruise down to the. super. That was a sideshow guy. That's a. sideshow guy back then. Harold. Huge. But that's a drawing. unfortunately. The Harold. Look at that.

guy up there. Go to that guy above that. Go to that guy right there. That guy's. [ __ ] right down the street. You go to. the barbecue store. Yeah. Barbecue store restaurant. That guy's. waiting in line for more bread. Texas. But how do you change that? Right. where if you say something like. that, you'll have people that are. heavier and say you're fat shaming. I am. and yeah, that's what I'm doing. Yeah, that's how. you feel bad. You feel bad if someone. fat shames you and then you make. decisions that you can't fat comfort. that that's the thing. That's nothing.

Four fat men at the circus. Jesus. Christ. Like the. That's Jared Taylor right there. the. subculture that we grew up in, right? In. our 20s, when we were 18 to 20, 30, whatever it was, like, man, we'd have we. would have guys slapping food out of. your hands and going fatty cuz in the. mill it back in the back in the day, and. I'm not saying back in the day, right? I. guess it sound makes me sound a little. old, but. I'm washed up enough to say that now. Yeah, we're washed up enough, dude. You. could fat shame the [ __ ] out of people. And that's just the way it worked, which.

was, hey fatty, and if you weren't. meeting a task or, you know, task. condition standard, you would have guys. in in NCOs's, non-commissioned officers. in your child line selecting your food. for you going, "Dude, you're going to. eat this, you're not going to eat this.". And then people would go to eat. something and literally slap it out of. your face and go, "You're you're you're. not eating that." Now there's these open. discussions and and you you read it and. all of a sudden.

we're bad people because we want people. to be healthy or if we if we say hey. that person's obese or that's fat and. that's unhealthy. How did it how did how did this turn to. people? people are trying to be nice cuz. to people that's all it is is they think. it's good to be nice and it is good to. be nice but the the reality is when. you're mean to someone about certain. things that you actually can change like. it's one thing it's like you say to. someone you got a stupid [ __ ] nose. man like well you can't do anything. about your nose but if you say to. someone like bro you're fat as [ __ ] and.

then they have to feel that like oh my. god I hate being fat make a choice make. a choice do something well is it better. to be nice to someone about that yes, most certainly. Is it better if you have. a friend and I've had friends that I. pulled aside and said, "Listen, man, you. got to lose weight. You got to do something to lose weight.". You know how many of them have done. that? Zero. Yeah. They don't listen. Like the only time it. ever works is when the person decides. that they want to make a change. And. often time that comes from pain and.

often time that comes from being mocked. And yeah, it's not nice. It's not nice. to f shame someone. not nice is dying of. diabetes. Especially if it's coming from. an empathetic empathetic position where. you're like, I'm saying this because I. want you to live, which means I like. you. But the thing is people are lazy. And. when you tell them that they're fat, all. people like to consider is like you are. shaming a person because of their body. shape and that's terrible and that's. awful. That's true. But if you also say.

to that person like, "Hey, I love you. I. care about you, but I'm going to be. honest with you. you're fat as [ __ ] and. you need to lose weight. That's also fat. shaming. Well, but this is there's very few ways. to get through to someone. If someone's. drunk, if they're a [ __ ] alcoholic. and they get drunk every night, and you pull them aside and go, "Hey, man. You are a [ __ ] drunk and you need to. stop. You need to get your [ __ ]. together." And they they feel bad. because they love you like, "Wow, Evan. says I'm a drunk. I respect Evan. [ __ ].

What am I doing? God damn it. I got to. get my life together." Somehow or. another, that's okay. But telling. someone that they're a fat [ __ ] is not. okay because you're fat shaming. Well, because you're making them feel. bad because of their addiction to food. versus their addiction to alcohol. Like, what if you see someone smoking every. day go, "Hey, man, those [ __ ] things. are going to kill you." Are you. cigarette shaming? Like, what what are. we doing here? It's true. Evan told me I was drinking a. little too much whiskey at one point and. I said, "You're you're offending me. It's you're being you're shaming alcohol. shaming me.". Yeah. He actually told me that he. identified with as somebody that doesn't.

drink at all. Like, I identify as a. non-drinker now. Fine. This this whiskey identifies as water. So your argument is invalid, Evan. Do you know that they're using. genderneutral language in the seals now? Yeah. Did you see that? I. It's got It made it all the way to the. seals. I sent it to Jaco and I sent it. to Gogggins and I was like, "What the. [ __ ] is this shit?". I was the same. I I uh I was I was. texting or talking to Jaco this morning. because they did you did you read it. where they. genderneutral?

uh you can't identify as him or her. It's there. They've changed this entire. uh I think it's a the. How did that get in there? How did that. get all the way to the seals? How did. someone not say, "Hey, [ __ ] you.". Uh I think that it's the same way that. uh most of these policies kind of they. bypass logic. They go through some type. of uh bureaucratic mechanism where. somebody thinks it's a good idea. And. typically, this is going to be an. officer that's looking to be promoted.

off of some merit where they're going to. go, I'm going to change this. This is going to be a good thing for my. career because this is where I'm going. to hang my hat on this. I'm going to look progressive. I'm going to look progressive. I'm going. to look really good for the rest of the. community. This is going to resonate with the rest. of the culture that we're living in. right now. People going to go, "Ooh, even the SEALs are being progressive.". Exactly. And that and I think that's how. it happens. When you gun down the bad guys, were you. a they or a them? What were you? The [ __ ].

That's the ridiculousness of it. I mean, these are like trained war fighters. doing one of the most difficult jobs on. the planet and we're going to bring, you. know, bureaucratic like weird [ __ ]. [ __ ] into it. It's like, no, we are. training them to do. the world's worst act, which is kill. another human being in in hopefulness. that it's saving more human lives. I. mean, this is not a PC job. You're. getting trained with hand grenades, rocket launchers, guns to put night. vision on and sneak into houses and. shoot [ __ ] in the face.

If you do make it politically correct, you're going to cost US service members. lives. That's the problem. And then if you. bring all this [ __ ] into it, then. you're decreasing the survivability and. the training that these guys and gals. need to succeed and be a high. functioning unit to live. This is not a. game of like sensitivity. This is a game. of life and death. And people say, "Oh, you're exaggerating. It's not going to. cause people lives to be polite and use. non-gendered language." No, this is one. step on a [ __ ] greased uphill. Yeah. And this is what happens if you.

let that [ __ ] get in there. It's going. to be like people used to say like, "Why. does anyone care about what goes on in. college campuses? This is not happen in. the real world. Stop worrying about like. leftist ideology that's permeating in. school." Well, look at what happened in. Seattle. Look what's going on in. Portland. that [ __ ] bleeds out into real. life. And if that [ __ ] bleeds out into. the seals, you got real problems. Well, I I think that's a really good. point from the entire war fighter. When.

we look at the entire war fighter across. America, we have a very small subsection. of of guys that carry the the lion share. of the war fighting and you know, the. special operations community, the. infantry, and the combat arms. So when. we look at that, that's a really small. number of guys. And to Matt's point, it's the most politically incorrect. profession. in the United States, quite possibly in. the world, because what you're doing is. you're taking human life. You can't have.

these two things. You can't be. politically correct and shoot people in. the face. You can't have both. I'm. sorry, America. You can't have the two. You have to have your war fighters that. are out there. Especially when you're. America, you have to have the guys that. are trained to go out at night and do. this every [ __ ] night and take it to. every terrorist, every bad guy. internationally to protect you in your. sleeping beds. You have to do that. You.

can't have a politically correct war. fighter. Knock-k knockock. I'm sorry. you identify as a as a as a you know. politically correct non-violent. terrorist. I guess we'll move on to the. next house. That doesn't work. It's completely illogical. You can't. fight wars with a politically correct. attorney. And guess what? They're not politically. correct. The people that you're. opposing, these these [ __ ] dictators. and these all these different terrorist.

organizations, they're not playing by. those rules. If you play by those rules, you're handicapping yourself. It's and. it's just it's just nonsense. It's nonsense. Yeah. And th those types of people have. no regard for human life, you know, and. and I've seen it personally when. politics get involved in wars. It kills. people. I mean, I have a few instances. where there were, you know, you can't. drop ordinance on guys. You just got. ambushed by because the local village. said you can't use, you know, bombs from. planes. And you're like, we, one of our.

guys just got shot. You know, we killed. the three that ran out the front door, but the six that ran out the back door, I'm just supposed to let them go live. from an ethical perspective. They're. going to go do this again, and I hope. they don't go plant bombs and blow up a. whole, you know, engineer vehicle and. kill six Americans. Like, where's the. ethicacy in that? Because you didn't. want to offend somebody. Politics don't. work in war. Obviously, you need rules. and regulations and roe and things that. you know, but that's where the training. comes in. You're acting on ethical basis. on the ground. But again, I don't think.

anybody understands, if you haven't been. there, how dynamic and complex some of. these situations when it's completely. dark, you're under night vision and a. laser and you're having to make moments, seconds, milliseconds to make a decision. whether you survive or you don't. It. it's there's no black and white with. that. It it's very complicated. And that. goes back to the whole thing why you got. to look out for veterans and in post. service because they're put in some very. very very difficult situations. Yeah. When you're yelling at someone and. giving out orders, you can't ask them.

what pronouns they use. And and they're going to lie and. deceive. I mean, you know, I I my my. teamler and Squiler both got killed. because of that. We did a call out and. they said no one was in the building. They they they swore to a law and all. this stuff and we went in there and we. got hemmed up really really bad. So, you. know, there is no there's no moral like. decision-m on their side as far as, well, better tell the Americans we're we. are harpointed in this building with. AK-47s and suicide vests. No, they're.

going to lie their balls off because. they're trying to [ __ ] kill us. Well, and I think that when the expectation. for. the the overall, you know, the the. warrior class really what it is for them. to kind of adapt to this politically. correct culture, it's it's we've seen it, I think, and. I've seen it especially when we look at. some of the other countries that we. actually have fought with. Um, some of. these guys have to come to the United. States, for instance, to get really good.

weapons training because weapons are. illegal in places like the UK. So, you'll have British soldiers that'll. come over here, especially their special. forces. They'll come over and train with. us because they have restrictions on how. often they can use firearms in the UK. So, a great that that's a great plan. Let's make all firearms illegal. And. then, oh, by the way, our special. operations have a hard time training. with them. And there's a very distinct. and huge difference between the. proficiency and the way that they're. utilizing their weapons and the way that.

we do it because of our culture. So our. warrior class as a society, we we really. have to look at it and say, how do we. protect them, you know, and in if we're. going to continue to maintain, you know, uh our sovereignty and security of the. nation, we really have to create a place. where these guys are not affected by the. [ __ ] that goes on in the United. States as far as, you know, woke cancer. culture [ __ ] We've got to protect.

them from this and we've also got to. just decide that these guys are trained. at a high proficiency level to do. something exceedingly difficult and we. want to keep them we want to keep them. over there like they they are a break. glass in case of war and now wars of. just perpetual essentially. So keep them. separate from the rest of this because. we really want those guys to be. proficient so we can go to bed every. night and kind of rest easy. You know. what I mean? One of the things you. talked about about where this probably. came from, it's a reoccurring theme in.

Jack Carr's books as well, is that. there's these officers that are career. politicians really that are also in the. military and they're really just trying. to advance their career. And it's it's. one of those uh archetypes that. resonates like you go, "Oh, I bet that. guy's real." Like it makes sense. It. makes sense as like sort of an evil sort. of uh [ __ ] artist that happens to be. an officer and claims responsibility for. all the good things and doesn't take.

responsibility for the bad things, winds. up getting people killed or winds up. being corrupt. How often is that really. the case? It's it's often and. we run into it and I've described it a. lot as you have a group of and it can be. non-commissioned officers or officers. and you have a group of guys. non-commissioned officers are guys that. have enlisted in the military and they. they either went to college or didn't go. to college but they've enlisted and. they've worked their way up through the.

ranks. officers have gone to college. They've gone to either ROC or the. academy. And there's very two distinctly. different rank ranking systems. So. enlisted, I just go down, raise your. hand, join the military, work your way. up. Uh the officers are typically in. charge of the NCOs's. That's most of the. time. There are some special operations. unit where units where that's a little. bit more fluid. Um, but in any. government bureaucracy, uh, specifically in the military and I.

think even in the intelligence. community, you have you have personality. types just like you do in any. organization. You have the mission first. guys, people that are like, I'm ready to. [ __ ] do whatever it is I need to do. in order to accomplish the mission. They're the they're the bread and butter. of what's happening overseas. And. there's a ton of those guys. And then. you have a minority of Mi's. And the Miis are the guys that are I'm. here to elevate and rank. I'm here to.

sherk responsibility and make sure that. I take responsibility for others for. other people's actions. And I'm here to. be a careerist essentially. And I'll do. anything to get promoted to include what. they call throwing our guys under the. bus. So Andy Stump's a good example. He. was an officer, but he he you would. never know that, right? He would never. throw his guys under the bus. Jo was a. great example. He'd never throw his guys.

under the bus. You know, good leaders. eat last. They're not careerists. They're not trying to do anything or say. anything in order to get promoted. They're mission first, very capable and. driven people that ultimately don't care. if they get credit for what happens. And. most of the time, those guys sacrifice. their career and their promotions. because they're going to always default. to what's right. The Miis are always. going to default to what's best for me.

Yeah. And what happens is those Miis start to. get a they move up much faster and more. effectively than the mission guys. And. the subsequent effect of that which you. see is you have the MI guys that are. moving up in ranks and then it is a. massive you know downside to the guys. that are mission first because they want. to focus on their team and getting what. they need to get done done and then they. pretty much get out of the military. because they're like ah I I don't like.

this political crap I. hear that I hear that all the time from. guys. Yeah, it it's a big the retention. on a a lot of the really great guys and. gals that serve I think is directly. correlated to to the me people because. they're essentially all about. professional progression rather than how. do we do the best mission and then give. the team everything's a team effort in. life you can't accomplish [ __ ] in your. own really just like a podcast you need. the producer you need the book like it's. a team effort and sure you have the. leader but when you have the officer. types and even at some NCOs's that are.

it's I did it you know and they put a. lot of the guys at risk where they'll do. dumb [ __ ] on target or I it happened to. me where it was like we did like land. sea and air movement for the sake of. doing it and I was the route in I'm like. hey why why aren't we landing on the X. or the Y like we're good to go like 160. said we're in like shut up best this is. what we're doing and it was essentially. because an officer wanted to use his. Rangers by Lancer for whatever no write. up that he might get a bronze star for.

when the only thing that happened was. risking the lives of American and. special operation guys because you just. made them move x amount of clicks. farther on that movement to target which. you know IEDs. isn't there checks and balances to. eliminate those guys or to make sure. that those guys get exposed because I. would I would imagine that for the the. enlisted men and for the NCOs's and for. all the people that have the right. thoughts in mind and and and the right. intentions in mind they would not want.

that to be there and I would imagine. that that's the majority ity of the. people. Yes and no. I think that that's why the. special operations community has such a. high rate of volunteer because they're. escaping the conventional military where. there's more careerism in the. conventional military. And when you go. to the special operations world, there's less of that. You're more of. it's more of a peer system. It's driven. on the individual capabilities in the. sense of this is my team. everything. that I do is going to be evaluated by my.

team. And ultimately, if I'm an officer. that's that's messed up, I can be fired, right? My team can fire me. There's less of. that in the conventional military system. because there's a hierarchy of. tradition. Uh now I think the. conventional military can definitely. take a page out of the special. operations community book and ultimately. make really good decisions on how they. select officers and leaders just in. general because leadership is one it's a.

it's a it's a dying art in in I think. just it's a dying art in general because. of. accountable. Yeah. Uh the military has an incredible. institution of knowledge on how to. really curate good leaders. They do. Um. in the special operations community, I'm. of course I'm biased, but they create. incredible leaders. They re they they. know how to really curate people's.

talent and put the right people in the. right positions and then develop. leaders. Um, well, that's why Jaco does so well. bringing that knowledge to. to business. and and doing all these speeches or he's. so well sought after because they they. want to hear a real leader. They do. in the with the highest stakes in the. world, combat, and talking about what. leadership entails. Absolutely. And and for my my example. that I made earlier, that was a one-off. I mean, the the leadership that came out. of Ranger Battalion, I mean, that I I.

couldn't have been more thankful to be a. part of that unit. You see a lot of. those those guys that work their way up. through the ranks of range of battalion. move on to tier one units and do have. extraordinary heroic careers and it is. you can definitely tell the cultural. differences from a special operations. leadership to the conventional armor and. that's not a knock in the conventional. because I think if you raise your right. hand you're epic but I think there's. some some knots to be untied with some. of the leadership and the career career. um officers because there's a certain. point probably when you pin a star. you're no longer an officer you're.

you're a politician. you're a politician and They're. appointed by politicians. So once you. move up past a certain rank, you're. essentially appointed by politicians. And which now every four to eight years. obviously there's a rotation in how. you're selected, who is selected for. what. So you'll start to see different. aspects of the officer course shift. based on administration because it's. it's it's led by the administration. And. then it takes a few years and then.

ultimately it goes back and forth and. back and forth. Um, but you know to go. back to your original question is how do. you continue to develop that? I think. the checks and balances are. it's a it's a it's a very traditionally. based organization, right? The military. is is is incredible at a lot of. different things. And one thing that. there has to be is there has to be. somewhat of a firewall from what's. happening and the newest trend and you.

know the the newest trend in social. science and how it affects our military. I think there really has to be a big. wall as far as what's affecting it and. what isn't. Um, and I think that as far. as how we get the right people in the. right places in the military, boy, that that's a that's probably a. three-hour podcast in itself as far as. just unpacking that. Uh there's some. incredible and and not to take away from.

anything that's happening, but that. there are some incredible people that. continue to serve in the most uh. honorable capacity in the United States. military day in and day out. They're. mission first people that we never hear. about uh that go through 20, you know, 30 years of a career. They retire and. they move in next door and you'd never. know what they did. Yeah. And. those are the guys that, you know, when.

we when we look at the community, when. we look at what we're doing just in. general, uh those are those are the guys. that I I really respect in the sense of. uh you know, we have our subculture and. our friends, but you know, the the. people are trying to earn our respect. for are the guys that we know have. always served in silence that are the. silent professionals that continue to do. the work day in and day out. And if we. have their respect and we can continue. to promote and different aspects of what.

they're doing in their mission, we do. that all the time. And when we do that, what I mean by that is, you know, we. whether it's donating money or time or. all the things that we try to do, we've. we've we've shipped hundreds of. thousands of bags of coffee overseas to. guys that are serving the country to our. friends that are in command driven units. that are doing really difficult work. And our little our little sacrifice that.

we make, and it's really not a. sacrifice, our little commitment to them. is ship them coffee. How do we dedicate. more time and money and encourage the. the good people that serve the country. day in and day out that are really. they're the heroes, right? When when we. look at this, when I when I look at the SEAL team. memo, for instance, and I say there's a. guy up there that made some change. because he wants to, you know, get a get. a a promotion, but that's not really. going to change the teams. You know, the. teams are going to stay the same. Those.

guys are going to go to work every day. just like they have. They're going to be. silent professionals doing very. difficult work day in and day out. Doesn't matter if I you identify them as. lamp or their or them or who's or. whatever it is, they're going to still. do the mission. Thank Thank goodness. they're doing that mission. So, you. know, how do we just keep promoting it? Well, that's the fear that I have of. people that don't have an understanding. of this that are involved in policy. You. know, when you talk about people. defunding the military and you when I. talked to Tim Kennedy and he talked to.

me about the stark difference between. the previous administration and when. Trump took over and one thing you could. say good things or bad things about. Trump all day long, but one good thing. you can say is he gave the military the. money that they needed and he he let. them off the leash. He he didn't politicize it. He just gave. them the money that they needed and they. stopped ISIS in a year. Yeah. And he talked about it in in great. detail. He's like the difference was so. stark between the previous. administration and when Trump took over. and having the resources to do what they.

needed to do and get the green light. And he's like we stopped ISIS in a year. There was knowing ISIS camps that they. wouldn't air strike because of politics. And then when they transitioned over to. kind of the ground force command level. and said, "What do we got to do to wipe. ISIS?" They go, "Here's the plan. Go. dead. Done. That's the way it needs to be in. my opinion. That's the way it needs to be if you. want to stay safe. Yeah. Yeah. And not just us, but other parts of the. world when you have radical. fundamentalists like that that are doing. wild [ __ ] man. And you could watch the.

videos that do get leaked. I mean, it's [ __ ] horrific. And the. idea that that somehow another this. these policies are dictated by people. who don't understand what's happening. there and not by military people, not by. people that are on the ground. That's. crazy. I I don't know exactly what the answer. is to that, which is when you have. professional politicians and especially. career politicians, uh that really they're fundamentally.

corrupted by ultimately the the military. lobbying aspects of of of our country. They're going to be. driven left or right in any one of these. countries. And and when I say that, you. know, Afghanistan is a really good. example. Uh how many days did it take us. to overthrow Afghanistan or the Taliban. and Afghanistan? What 150 days? That was. back in 2000 September, October, November of 2001, right? So roughly 90.

days after the towers went down, we in. invaded Afghanistan to overthrow the. Taliban. took us less than 6 months to. essentially go from north to south in. that country with a small contingent of. special operations and CIA guys roughly. give or take. And then you have a. long-term war of occupation which has. lasted almost 20 years now. And we have. the special operations units that. essentially invaded, overthrew the. Taliban, and then we have a long-term.

war of occupation. And we have several. different administrations that have. continued to increase troop size. To. what reason? Why? And then Trump, like. him or not, is saying, "Well, let's. let's downsize our troop involvement in. Central Asia or Afghanistan." The I. think the only bipartisan agreement that. they've had in the Senate and the. Congress in the last six months was to. maintain troop levels in Afghanistan. Right. For to what reason? Right. Right.

Exactly. Why? And when Trump talks about it, this is. where it gets creepy. He says there is a. militaryindustrial complex that wants to. go to war. They want to keep war going. They want that money. Endless war, a lot of money. No one even brings it up. They He says. it and it it doesn't become a big issue. He brought it up in an interview on Fox. News and that was it. That was it. And no one know everyone's like, "No, it wasn't a giant deal." Like, "Wait a minute. You're saying we're we. have a large contingent of soldiers over.

there just for money. Is that what. you're saying? Like what are you saying? I think uh you know I and I think. personally yes. I think largecale wars. of occupation are about the transference. of wealth from the taxpayer to the. military-industrial complex because I've. seen it a small scale uh special. operations contingent as far as uh we'll. use Afghanistan as the template. uh. you can do a lot with a force multiplier. and it's by with and through your local.

national your local nationals uh and I. think it's it typically a more mature. soldier uh that's already has a mature. and developed brain too by the way you. know past the age of 24 typically. special operations guys are a little bit. older um and then you have a force. multiplying effect and ultimately you. don't have a large large scale war of. occupation, which now you have. 18-year-old kids that are driving around. in tanks that are flying around in, you.

know, big robust, you know, C5, you. know, logistics, but it's less uh it's. more cost-effective to do that. And it's. also not as I I think it's also not as. politically advantageous for. politicians. So people love to support. and celebrate the previous. administration for all the great things. that Obama did. Okay, but he increased. troop levels in both Afghanistan and. they say, "Well, he withdrew from Iraq.".

But no, we we had another surge in Iraq. after that and we surged in Afghanistan. after that. Well, there's really not a a. coherent and logical argument that I can. hear or that I've heard in the last 10. years that that you know I've either. been in Afghanistan or Iraq for a. large-scale military occupational force. in either one of those countries. So, when you have a president that's saying, "I think we should downsize our. footprint.

and you don't have and you don't have. the left or the right supporting that.". It seems [ __ ] crazy to me. It it it. seems one it seems crazy and two where. where are our media outlets and where. are the other people saying maybe we. should break this down and look like and. and look at it from the second and third. order effects of a of a troop downsize. Can we still maintain the sovereignty. and the security of the United States at. a more cost effective rate? Meaning less.

blood, less treasure. Can we do that? My. answer to that is absolutely we should. be able to do that. Absolutely. But you. know why we can't? Because it's more coste effective. for us to have a special operations. smaller contingent. And it's it's less. it's more costly to move big logistics, you know, tanks and airplanes and fuel. and everything else. That's where. taxpayers.

you you're you as a taxpayer are. essentially paying to fund all of that. And that's that's my that's my two cents. on it at least. It's crazy. It's it's crazy that that's. both Democrats and Republicans and that. there's no one step stepping up and. saying this is nonsense. We need to stop. doing this. And I don't understand. I don't exactly understand why either. I. really don't because I keep waiting. I. keep waiting for the congressmen and the.

senators and a few of these other people. to step up and say, "Wait a minute. Can we can we decrease our footprint in. these countries and still maintain. security and and and ultimately protect. the sovereignty of the United States? I. think we can. But nobody is stepping in. to the shoot after Trump and essentially. backing him and saying, "Yes, I think. this is a good idea." Whereas. the left should be all over this. They should be, "Hey, less war, right? I. mean, this is the hippie movement. Like,

less war is good." No, you had the left. fighting him over his his uh Syrian. troop withdrawal, which is insane to me. that you had media outlets that were. defending the increase of troop levels. in Syria. So, but what I don't. understand like why is it just the sheer. amount of money? So, are they. influencing the politicians and the. politicians all uniformly agree to go. along with this? I'd say probably a large part is. government contracts, right? Bullets, oil, you know, that all cost money.

missiles and and and a lot of those are. government contracts ran by private. entities and the cash flow that goes to. the government they have to subsidize. and go to other companies to get what. they need and and there's a lot I mean. hundreds of millions of dollars I mean. trillions. trillions trillions of dollars. on overall scope. Senate rejects Paul proposal withdrawing. troops from Afghanistan. wow that's today. no July I'm sorry. yeah and and what was the vote on that I. forget I know. I Yeah. So where they agree so you know.

we can where they agree is we need to. maintain uh or increase or maintain. troop levels in Afghanistan. That's. where we can get everybody to agree that. that sounds that that's completely. rational and. what is their argument for it? What is. their argue? I mean I don't know what. like especially coming from the left. I have heard the argument and it's to. maintain stability because they don't. want the the state to ultimately. collapse and cause a failed state which.

then puts us back into the previous. circumstance where it where the Taliban. can continue to increase and in increase. their power ultimately developing a new. terrorist organization or harboring. terrorist organizations. And my answer. to that is you don't need tanks on the. ground to do that. You need a bunch of. commandos and and and a few CIA guys. There's 23 provinces in that country. It's really not that big. You have.

Pakistan obviously a few of these. bordering countries, but you don't need. a large scale occupational force to do. what you're talking about. So what s what b what does the largecale. occupational force serve? Uh from my. perspective, it serves uh it serves the. transference of taxpayer dollars from. the taxpayer into the. military-industrial complex. That's what. it serves. Now, the argument is is that. they need all of this in order to. maintain stability within Afghanistan.

That's the argument. They need all of. it. That's not a good argument. Uh I don't think so because I I think. that they've proven that they can they. can if the mission or the end state and. that's the other issue. What's your. success criteria? So, lay out the. success criteria for Afghanistan. Have. you ever heard the the United States. government's success criteria for for. Afghanistan? No. Right. And that's because there really. isn't one. And which is a [ __ ]. problem. When our leaders go to war. without success criteria, it's really.

easy to maintain a military footprint. for an endless amount of time because. you're always chasing a new definition. for what it means to succeed. There's no. definition of when. There's no end to. it. So why is there not minimum success. criteria is something that you need to. have on anything. What do I need in. order for this organization to deem. itself a success? The expectation for our our our.

politicians and our leaders is they have. to publish minimum success criteria for. any war they ever go into. And then once. we meet that, there needs to be a post. effect plan as to how the hell do we get. out. So do you think that essentially. what happens is the military-industrial. complex or the lobbyists or the special. interest groups they do they make. agreements with politicians? Do they. communicate with politicians and tell. them what their goals are and here's. here's where we're going to help you.

This is what we want you to do. Like how. do they get them all to agree on this? I I think that they have a very complex. way of organizing and funding think. tanks. the way that people think about. war, the way they think about stability. Uh I think that they have access, right? So when you have access and uh most of. these companies if you go to DC uh you. know drive around look at what companies. are inside the beltway look at what. companies are are publicly traded um.

publicly traded large companies within. this this type of industry and they have. access. and their entire monetization strategy. and how they make money is requires war. So how they continue to grow their. company and profit directly is related. to how much war is being conducted. So. if they have close relationships with. all of the politicians within DC and. their entire monetization strategy is.

built on on increased war, do do you. think they're working for the taxpayer. to kind of withdraw troops? When I say. that, it's like it's a it's it's it's. directly contradictory to what I think. the majority of the public would like to. see. I think the majority of the public. would like to see a decreased footprint, decreased war, uh especially large-scale. occupational wars, and they don't. financially benefit from that. They It's. It's contradictory.

Wouldn't you like to hear Trump talk. about this? Oh my gosh, I would love for any. politician to keep talking about this. But it seems like he's at least the only. president in our recent lifetime that's. actually brought up the fact the. military-industrial complex is actually. influencing these decisions. I I would love to have any politician, especially Trump or the the president, talk about the military-industrial. complex and how how affected DC politics. is and how effective we we are in the. DoD as as a nation in funding overseas.

wars. and say what you want. Uh, and. when I say that as far as the the. proTrump, anti-Trump, but uh, you know, a lot of the left, they they continue to. to kind of parade around about what all. the great things that Obama did. He. increased our war capacity overseas. He. didn't decrease it. Did he shut down. Gibbo? Did he do any of these things. that he said that he was going to do? For a group of people that claim that.

they're so anti-war, the one thing that they should be. saying, gosh, this guy might have a. point. We might want to decrease our. footprint overseas. They don't. But to contradict what we were saying. earlier, the benefit of Trump was that. he added funding to the military, right? He gave them the green light. He let. them off their leash. Like, where do you draw the line? I think it's a more cost-effective way, too. So if you if you have minimum. success criteria, for instance, in the.

case of uh ISIS in Iraq, you have. success criteria that that are clearly. laid out, which is defeat uh and destroy. ISIS and eliminate um any stronghold. essentially any any occupied land that. they have. Um you go to work and you. take it all away from them and then. you're done. You leave. That's what you do. And. that's what they did essentially. And. now granted, we still have force uh. forces in Iraq, but not to the degree. that we did when we were increasing to.

push ISIS out. So with success criteria. and ultimately clearly defined goals and. objectives directly associated to any. war, that is a absolute expectation that. we should have for any politician voting. yes. And we should hold our politicians. accountable for strict adherence to the. success criteria of any war. The problem. is is they keep changing. every 2 to four years. They keep. changing the success criteria. Well,

that's endless war. And he's right about. that. These guys want endless war. And. both sides. So both sides want it. Democrats and Republicans. Why? Why do. we want endless war in these places? That doesn't make sense to me. It really. doesn't. And the only thing that makes. sense to me in this in this capacity is. that. these guys all have a direct benefit or. they're all being persuaded by the same. organizations.

to keep the troops and keep the. transference of wealth from the taxpayer. into the military-industrial complex. That's [ __ ] terrifying. Absolutely it is. Like it is absolutely. terrifying. And we as a nation should be. we should be having that conversation. That's the conversation that I want us. to have as a nation versus the. conversation that we're having about, you know, like crazy [ __ ]. Like crazy unimportant [ __ ] that's. really it's honestly boring.

And I think it's a I think it's a. distraction and a sideshow to what's. really happening. But it's just crazy that you're not. hearing this conversation anywhere. Like. this conversation is happening on this. podcast and it's reaching millions of. people. Why is this unique? That's that's what's nuts. This what's. nuts is that this isn't on CBS or NBC or. Vice or any of these places. This is not. in this long form. You're not getting. this conversation. You're not getting it. spelled out the way you just spelled it. out.

No. And I think that there's a. maybe Vice Maybe Vice has had some. pieces that I missed. I'm sure they. have. And I'm sure there are a lot of. people that would love to debate me over. what's actually happening. You'd be. hardressed to find people that with two. guys sitting across the table that have. more experience specifically in these. countries working in these countries. I. have seven and a half years in Iraq and. Afghanistan in my life. Seven and a half. years in both military and as an agency. contractor. And uh when I look at what.

we do in in those in those in those. countries and I'm I'm not thinking about. it in theory, right? I'm not thinking. about in theory. I'm looking at it. saying this is what I saw. uh this is my. firsthand experience and this is what. I've kind of looked and being able to. reflect on it for the last five six. years since I've you know since I left. the military in the government been able. to reflect on it and really ask a lot of. complex questions as to why do we keep.

doing the same thing over and over and. over again and it's frustrating because. I understand what it takes to stabilize. these countries I see it and I also. understand what doesn't work and we're. doing a lot of [ __ ] that doesn't work. Well, and the hard part with that, I. think, is there's been such a diversion. away from the wars that uh no one's. actively thinking about how many US. soldiers, men and women in the military. are currently deployed. It's it it. there's so much going on in the nation. that that conversation's not even.

happening. I'd venture to say most. people like, "Oh, we still got people in. Afghanistan and they're going out on. missions and stuff and and it's yeah, it's like an injustice to not have those. conversations about what's the end goal, what is the success criteria for. Afghanistan because I'm sure they want. to go out and and do their job and. they're willing to risk their lives for. it, but what's the job?" And and I and. you don't really see any of that coming. out of what what what that mission what. the end goal looks like. And if there is. an end goal, why are we there kind of. thing? And and I'm not I haven't heard.

it like not even from friends that are. on the ground. I'm like. they they they have a um they have our. international strategic counterterrorist. objectives which is deny sanctuary for. any terrorist organization. and I'm sure that we could pull it up. but at the end of the day we're. occupying a foreign country with our. military. We should be talking about this on a. national level as to what what are our. goals? What are our objectives? What are. our what are our success criteria? And.

when the [ __ ] do we get out of this. place? Like we should be having that. conversation on a regular cycle because. guys are still dying. You know, we're. still spending a lot of money and we're. still spending a lot of our time and. lives with the men and women of that. serve our country. These people are still getting wounded. and killed in places like Afghanistan. And we're not having a national complex. conversation about it. And it's it's. crazy to me. It seems certifiable like. as a country it's like man you guys are.

crazy. You need to have this. conversation. It almost seems like it's too. uncomfortable for people to discuss. and and particularly because it's going. on for so long since it's happened since. 2001. It's so long. It almost seems like. people just it's too much. They don't. Why is this I I don't know. They just. keep moving. You know, it almost seems. like that. And then obviously someone's. taking advantage of that. and profiting off of it. It's a hard conversation. You're going to have kids that are going. to Afghanistan.

that were from the from the first wave. of soldiers that were fighting in. Afghanistan. You're you're having. children. They're children to. Yes. after September 11th and now they're. there. Now they're there. to to me as a guy. that's served in both of those countries. and to me as a guy that loves our. country, we really need to have that national. conversation with everybody and say, "Is. this a this is a generational war, everyone? Is this something we really.

want to continue to pay for with our. blood and our treasure? Is this. something we really want to do?" And. I I think when I obviously, you know, I'm biased, but I think these are the. important issues that we should be. discussing, right? So, how much more do. we really have do we really have the the. patience for? Not necessarily the. patience, but how much war is really. acceptable? uh and how do we elevate and have these.

complex conversations. without the interference of people that. ultimately profit from war too which is. that I think that's that's the. conversation we have to we have to take. that out and have this as a society and. they don't want to have it. the interference of people who profit. from war and that is something that's. happening and it's happening behind. closed doors it's not happening in a. transparent way we can clearly see where. the decisions are being made. It's. happening by the influence of the. politicians that are being influenced.

behind closed doors. Absolutely. And if they're being. influenced behind closed doors, they're. also being influenced overtly through uh. I would say they're overtly being. influenced by, you know, think tanks. and, you know, studies that are funded. by, you know, large institutions that. are geared to profit from this. So. instead of the government spending its. time really investigating and looking at. complex war plans and how we pull out of.

these places, you know, we're we're. trying to figure out, you know, how we. can change memos so we don't offend. anybody. It's [ __ ] crazy. Yeah, it's crazy. I never expected this. conversation to go down this road, but. uh it makes sense. Yeah. I mean, I didn't either, actually. We started. No, I didn't either. I was just chilling. here and I was like, I'm just gonna. listen for the next [ __ ] 20 minutes. We started talking about coffee and.

eating the right foods and [ __ ] [ __ ]. That's the uh beauty of podcast, right? Yeah. It's crazy. When you just get a chance to talk, um. let's wrap it up with that. I mean, is. there anything else you could say to. people? Is there anything people can do. about this? Is there anything that um. you think people should be aware of that. they're not other than what you just. said? I think uh you know honestly I don't. know I and I don't want to be a defeist. I think that it's one of those things. and you've talked a lot about it in your. podcast. I think the expectation for us.

to. expect more out of our our politicians. I think in in sourcing different. different types of information from a. wide variety of people. Uh I I I think. for us this is white noise, right? When. you look at all the white noise issues. that are out there, we have big issues, you know, we have big issues. How the [ __ ] do we. get off this rock if there's a bigger. rock coming towards us? That's a big. one. Holy [ __ ] Do you think we should might. figure that one out? I don't know. But.

these are complex conversations that I. think we should hold our our our leaders. accountable for sticking to the hard. problems and having those conversations. versus these ridiculous sideshow white. noise conversations that ultimately are. just a distraction from from what we as. a nation should be making our our. government. uh do for us. It's just such a complex. wave, such a complex web rather. So.

there's just so much there's there's so. much to think of. It's almost impossible. for a human being to look at the whole. picture from from above and see all. these different factors that are playing. against each other. Oh, absolutely. I think we're. it's mind-numbing when you start to. critically think about one thing and. then the bajillion things that are going. on in society. It's. well that's how you need this, right? Yeah. And and and good leaders who are. not financially motivated, which is.

almost impossible. Possible. That's the thing. It's like getting the. money out of politics because if if they. look at this and they go, "Well, it's. futile already. Might as well just. profit from it.". Right. Well, that's the worst thing ever is. when politics stop becoming a service to. your country. It became political gain. and monetary gain because you can get. paid. But when you find out that politicians. that they they make $100,000 a year, but. they're worth a hundred million bucks. Yeah. How. the [ __ ]. How is that possible? Yeah. And everybody's like, no one's. Yeah. Nobody's. no one says, "Hey, get in front of us.

and tell us exactly where you got that. money.". Yeah. Break it down. Tell us why is your. husband worth this much or why is your. wife worth this much? I understand. you're only worth that much, but your. wife's worth $50 million. Uh and your kids are all worth 50. million a piece or whatever it is. How does that happen? Yeah. Yeah. And. and why is like why are we just like. whistling and like looking around and. pretending this stuff doesn't exist? What a noble cause. He works for. $100,000 and you're like he paid $1.3. million in his tax filings. Uh [ __ ].

going on here, man. [ __ ] is going on, man? Thank you. Thank you a lot. I. really appreciate it. Thanks for everything, man. Thanks for. the way you guys run your company. Thanks for the ethics and the just the. way you guys carry yourselves. I I. appreciate you guys very much. Well, thank you. Appreciate the. opportunity. That's awesome. All right. Bye. everybody. Bye. [Applause]. [Music]. [Applause].

[Music].