Delta Force Legend Reveals What War Really Does to a Man - John McPhee | PBD Podcast #873

In beginning of war, I wanted to kill. everybody. Let's just kill them all. >> Did you have a reaction the first time? loved it. Are you kidding me? >> You loved it. So, on any given day, what could be the. high and low number of people you guys. took out? >> Who got time for all the counting? There's certain bad guys where like. however the night pans out, like I could. really care if this guy lived or died. the night. I was good at it. I could save lives. every day. When I would go out, I felt.

like guys less guys got hurt. Where else should I be? >> [cheering]. >> Who else needs me more? >> What's the closest call you ever had? >> I know what I can do. You guys didn't. have a chance to begin with. We dealt. with a lot of people, family, kids, like. you come get a man of the house, he's. got a family. You got to deal with them, too. >> Were they as bad as the stories we read. about? >> real, they needed to die. I don't feel. bad about them at all. Felt at ease, like I knew maybe this is what I was.

supposed to do. I don't know, but we. were decimating those guys. So, I I. stopped counting on my first day. >> This has never been talked about before, so I know a lot of people that follow. your stories closely. And you may get. upset at me for starting with this, but. I think it's very important for our. >> it. I doubt it. Let's go. >> You shouldn't get upset. I want you to. get angry at me. >> Okay. >> So, here's a guy.

that's. Delta Force, sergeant major, fully. decorated. I contacted my guy that was. former Delta Force. I asked him about. you. He says, "This guy is a full-on. badass." All these things about you that. scares the out of everybody, the. enemy, right? >> Yeah. >> And you come in today, your only request. from us is Pop-Tarts? >> Yeah. >> You asked for Pop-Tarts? >> Yeah, I like them. >> Pop-Tarts? >> Yeah. >> That We've never had a Pop-Tart request. >> Ah. >> How long has that been a thing with you? >> Man, uh uh.

well, I love them brown sugar Pop-Tarts. >> The brown sugar Pop-Tart. >> Yeah. Uh every time I talk about this, I'll. get a I got Pop-Tart underwear, socks. >> Li- literally? >> Uh seriously, right? Uh Pop-Tart. t-shirts, like people send me Pop-Tart. stuff, but the Pop-Tarts comes from um. when I went out alone, I I I flew my. pick. started out in a side of bed, and I told. my boss, I was like, "Hey, we don't got. no beef jerky, no noth- We, you know,

we're who we are. You know what I mean? I know wherever the main hub is, right, Bagram, I know they got this stuff, and. the other guys are just eating it up. while we're out here kind of like. eating vegetables. I don't even know. what they are and some goat, you know. what I mean? Like with some dude cooking. it who's sketchy also. So, I was like, he's like, "If you want You want POGI, you got to. get it yourself. Schedule everything. yourself. I'm not lifting a finger.". kind of deal. I'm like, "I'll do that. I.

mean, what what a good experience for. me." So, I scheduled the Chinook to come in, pick. me and my pickup truck up. We fly us at. night to Bagram, park at the chow hall, see my man in our squadron cook, like, "Yo, fill up the truck for the boys, you. know what I mean?" And then, um. so, uh that's when they asked me to go. on a solo mission. I was actually kind. of looting Pop-Tarts at the time, you. know what I mean? >> Do you Do you miss it? Like, do you tell.

When I When I watch you here telling. these stories, do you ever like. have you fully disconnected, or do you. still miss it and you're yearning? >> I don't know. I think I moved on on a. lot of stuff. I mean, uh when I retired, I was talking to a. friend, and then like, you know, you. know, he was in Ranger Battalion with. me, and we were kind of like. kind of like talking my highlight reel, cuz I hadn't talked to him in a long. time. What you been up to kind of deal, right? And I was just thinking like, man, what am I going to do now?

You know what I mean? Excuse me. How am. I going to be happy now? >> What year is this? >> It's like uh 11 when I retired. Like. right when I retired. Excuse me. So, right when I retired, right? And I was just thinking, what do. I do now? Like. you know, chasing after you chase Saddam. or done some of these things like what. do you do for happiness now? You know what I mean? Like so. uh. And uh he was like, wow. I feel sad for you. And like we started. laughing, right? And then I started.

thinking about it and I was like, he's. right. Like what am I going to do now? >> Was he a former guy with you like you. >> Uh he was in Ranger Battalion with me. He was a Ranger. >> And and. what what helped you adjust from that. life to civilian? Cuz cuz my buddy when. I talked to him I had to go visit him in. Madrid. He's like uh you know, we call. each other B. He says, "Yo, B. I can't. handle this." So, I go to Madrid. He's a. uh. ETSing after being in 20. He was also. Delta. I showed you his pictures. He. sent it to me. So, he was a B Squadron. guy. And um.

he says, "I don't know how to adjust.". >> Yeah. >> even know how to. So, what was your. mechanism of adjusting from that fast. life? >> Well, I think the big the big thing. [clears throat] for me was I was. I was working on the staff as an E9, you. know what I mean? I just came from. Baghdad and I got to work on the staff. like. what a smack in the face, you know what. I mean? So, in general, culture shock, you know what. I'm saying? I get I go from doing. whatever I want. You know what I mean?

Whatever I wanted to do, you know, 06-07 to then I was on the staff and I'm. And then like I never had a army. computer. Like I had a Blackberry, you. know what I mean? Like I don't even know. how to I don't even have a a phone. myself yet. I've never even had email. yet, you know? So, um yeah, so I'm on the staff and I'm. just overwhelmed every day. This is. incredible. Like, I go from a life of. being alone, going out, you know, being.

a leader, bringing out my guys, you. know, uh to like. desk. Um. and like I just hated my life. Every day. I was miserable. Guys would come in my. office. I'd be like, "State your. business. Uh uh too slow, get the. out. You know what I mean? I got to be. Well, when you can spit it out, I ain't. got time, you know what I mean?". And then like I just always mean. I. thumbed down. Like, we'd have new hires. and like you'd have to thumb up or thumb. down. I thumbed down everybody to their.

face, you know what I mean? Like. >> This is post. This is This is post you. no longer being. >> This is I still in the army. >> Yeah, but you're not working. headquarters. You're not working. operations. >> the staff. >> And how long did they put you on the. staff? When you. >> Uh I worked there for like my last like. 4 years. >> Holy So, for you it was harder transitioning. within. >> Yeah. >> from being deployed to working on the. staff. >> Yeah. Yes.

>> Okay, so then so then that means the. transition for you when you got out, you. were Did that kind of help you get ready. to leave or not really? >> so. Okay. This is what leads me. Um. one day I kind of had fun at work. And I was like, "Huh. I had fun today." I get home, you know. what I mean? And huh, I had fun today, right? And then um. you know, I was like, "Well, I wonder if. I could have fun tomorrow.". Right? Because all my other days.

suck, you know what I mean? Like. It's army strong, not army smart. Let's. just be real clear here, you know what I. mean? But. um so I was like, "Huh. I wonder if I. could have fun." So I woke up the next. morning and I told myself I was going to. smile and have fun no matter what. And I And I remembered I used to be fun. You know what I mean? Like, you know, like uh I'm a little brother. I talk. smack. You know what I mean? Like, uh I. was a ranger. They talk smack, right? Like, we have fun. We joke with each.

other, right? You know how guys are. >> Uh I realized I used to do this, but I hadn't been that person in a long. time. So, I told myself I was going to smile. and enjoy my day and be positive and try. to be positive. You know what I mean? >> And that was it? >> That was it. >> And so, from there, you know, by the. time it came out for you to get out, did. you try to go back and say, "Let me go. on one more tour. Let me get one more. thing." or no, you already knew that. they were kind of pushing you out? >> Yo, the.

the biggest the biggest thing you could. know about the Army is [snorts] to know. when to say when. >> Know when to say when. >> For yourself. >> And you knew it? >> It's time for me. I was burned out, you know, they burned. me out. They burned everybody out. And. that's why your buddy has a hard time. right now. He's burned He was burned. out. You got to recover from it. You. know what I mean? Risky behavior is from. burnout, you know, concussions causes. risky behavior. So, like, guys get out. of control. It's like, well, the guy's.

mentally suffering, but we can't. talk about that. Right? We can only talk about this guy's. out of control. So, I knew it was time. >> Did they knock on the door or did you? Did they come to you and say, "Hey, uh it. >> No, I was at 20. I was at 20. So, really. the way the way it went down is like I. had one of those days where I was over. it. So, I went to the retirement guy and. I was like, "Yo, if I retire right now, right?

How much money do I get at retirement?". And then, uh I think they wanted me to like stay. in and pull another job, another. Sergeant Major gig somewhere else. You. know, dangling the carrot over my head. with other fancy jobs you'll never get. You know what I mean? But. Um and then. you know, and then I was like, but you. know, they wanted me to stay in another. you know, I don't know. You know, well, you did the Sergeant Major Academy, so. you owe us time and you did. So, uh they were dangling.

>> E-9 though. What do you do after E-9? >> Uh other Well, you. >> Other E-9 job, you just You circulate. What was E-9 to like was there. >> You could be the Sergeant Major of the. Army. >> I'm saying. Was that in your mind? >> Mikey, who's now the Sergeant Major of. the Army, my old neighbor. >> Mikey? >> Yeah. >> Would you have wanted that job? >> No. >> I don't think you're that guy though. >> that guy. >> It's all operations. >> And then so, I went to the retirement. branch and I was like, you know, and the. guy is like, I was like, tell me if I. get out like, you know, I don't know, whatever they wanted, a.

year, two, right? Or if I get out now. And the guy was like, "Come [snorts] back after lunch, Sergeant Major." Like, I'm like, "Huh.". Man, the retirement guys are dicks. I. didn't know that. You know what I mean? But I guess it's You know, the army. doesn't want you to retire anyway, right? So, that's what I'm thinking. So, I go back after lunch and the guy like. prints me two pieces of paper and he. like slides them across the desk. You know what I mean? I'm like, "Okay, where's this going?" So, I look at one.

I set it down. I look at the other one. I look at them. They're identical. They're exactly the same. He's like, "There's no difference in the. money.". >> Staying or leaving? >> And that's when I was like, "I'm out.". >> Did you ever in your career get demoted. or no? >> No. >> What is it with some of the best. soldiers that are fighters. >> Yeah. >> tend to have a moment of their career. where they get demoted? E-5 to E-4 or. E-6 to E-5. >> Super common. Look, I would say this is. everyone. Okay.

Let's just say, you know, a million. people join the army, right? Okay, how. many people separate from the army under. bad terms? >> 5%. >> You think 5%? >> guessing. What what what is. >> I would say everyone who leaves the army. before 20 years is disillusioned about. the army in some way. So, everybody. leaves the army with a shitty story. You. were burned out, you You know what I. mean? Like it's the most common story. there is. >> It is what it is, you know. >> And guys always like It's like they were.

being bad or something, but everybody. has a limit. Most guys get in trouble for saying. what's right. >> [snorts]. >> That's not in trouble in my book. And. then so, I would say this for like. uh there's there is more I You know, look. Especially in the E-9 ranks, there's. more wrangling to put someone. down so you get the next job. Like so, it's the age-old thing. I'd say 90% of. the people I'd say 90% of the people who.

get out of the army have an iffy story. at best. You know, it's only the commanders that. leave that get to write their books. I. mean, think about Okay, let's let me let. me ask you the question another way. How. many people leave with a you know, the. high school quarterback, you know, prom. queen story that are great? How many people leave like that? What. would you say? >> How many after that? Like you're talking. about the album. >> the million, you said 5% have a bad. story. What do you think have a good.

story when they leave? >> Oh, no. That would be different for me. I think those guys a very high chance. have a bad story. >> Well, that's what I'm saying. Like when. you look at it good or bad stories, you'll see that most people have. >> Who's the most successful guy like that. you went with that after the life? And. I'm talking like tier one like you. >> Mikey Weimer, Sergeant Major of the. Army. >> That And he was Delta as well. >> Yeah. >> Wow, so he was a good. >> Major of the. >> So, what was what was different about. Mikey? What is Mikey. Was he as crazy as you? Like was he as. He was.

>> Yeah, Mikey's one of the guys. He's done. it all. >> So, so how. >> He's legit. >> So, how did Mikey transition from that. fast-paced to be able to handle the. office situation? >> It took years probably to get there, but. I mean and you got to want it. I mean. think about this. If you really want to. >> Weimer? >> Yeah, Mikey. >> You guys are the same age, yeah? >> Yeah. He's my next-door neighbor. >> Intere- So, if you were to say, "Okay, this was different about Mikey than me.". What would be different about his. personality? >> He wanted that. >> He wanted that.

Got it. >> You know what I mean? Think about. >> And you knew he wanted that early on? Like. >> No, he probably didn't even know he. wanted it. I mean, I don't know what He. maybe he knew Maybe he knew he was born. to be the star man. I don't know. I. don't know. Mikey could tell you that. I. can't answer for him. But what I could. say is like. it's easier to adjust if it's something. you want, ain't it? >> Mhm. >> It's not so easy to adjust when people. are forcing, you know, orders, stuff down your. throat. >> And that applies in every aspect of. life. >> 1 million percent. >> So, so I remember when I [clears throat].

was sharing the story off camera with. you is when my colonel came up to me and. and this E6 when I got the orders I. wanted from Vicenza from Virginia, comes. back. I wanted to go Vicenza, Italy, DLI, uh airborne, uh. special forces, 18 Delta, 5th Group. I. wanted to do all that stuff. And then, you know, last minute I'm like, "I'm. getting out." And I told my Colonel. Picazzo, "I'm going to get out." My. orders went to my buddy. He took the. orders. He [snorts] wanted to eventually. be Delta. 6 7 8 years later, I can't.

find him. I don't know where he's at. I. was telling the story earlier to you. And he goes in. And for about 5 6 7 8. years, we were not in touch with each. other. All the information I had, never. heard back from him. How. intentional can somebody be to be. selected versus because sometimes people. are like, "Well, there's a There's guys. that are in Delta and they don't even. know what the selection process is. What. is your impression of what the selection. process is to get into Delta? >> It's hard.

It's hard. >> What do they look for? What What do they. look for? >> Uh. um I had it explained to me like this. once from one of the shrinks. Um if every human being is on a scale. from like 1 to 100, right? Like they're. looking for guys at like 89.7. to 89.9. And you got to fit You got to fit in. that psychological number, and or you're. out. Like it's that simple.

You know what I mean? You have the. the mental whatever that is. I don't. know. I'm not a shrink or a doctor, but. whatever that is, you got to fit first. So, like guys that don't make it, I. don't think it's no harm, no foul. You. didn't fit the Maybe you were 89.91. >> Did you see a pattern amongst all the. guys that were being selected, and were. you ever in the process of selection, or. that you were not in that uh. >> Uh I never were I never did selection or. anything like that. >> does selection? Is it all ex-Delta guys. that do selection, or current Delta. guys? >> they run their own selection. They I.

mean, it's a it's a task. You'll do it. >> So, let's just say if I do Delta, and they may come to me and say, "Hey. Pat, we like the way you think. We want. to bring you to be part of the selection. process." Who gets that job? To select. >> Yeah, that's like the crown jewels. You. know what I mean? >> Really? >> Oh, yeah. >> So, it was Mike Parlay. >> secret in the army. >> Are you being serious right now? >> Yeah, I'm being serious. The only secret. in the army is the selection process. >> Why is it such a big secret? >> I don't know. Cuz, you know, it's.

uh you're dealing with human beings at. the highest level. I'd keep it secret so the Chinese. couldn't steal it from us. You know what I mean? [clears throat]. I mean, I don't know. Super soldier. Who the Who the Who the Who the. knows? >> So, when you went through the selection. process, who interviewed you? >> Uh well, the unit runs all their own. stuff. So, the army, you know, they have. shrinks, they have It's all internal. army. >> But is it a recommendation? Is it kind.

of like. we got this guy here, John McAfee. I. think you guys going to like him. You. guys got to talk to this guy. Does a. Does your E-9 or your first sergeant. make that recommendation? >> no one talking about it. First off, you. They screen your packet. And that allows. you to go to selection. And then you got. to walk. You got to do You got to do the whole. selection. So, you got to walk the walk first. >> How long is the selection process? >> Uh it's like a month. Something like that.

>> So, you went to Ranger School, you also. went to Special Forces School. And then. so is it like a school you go through? Or at that point they already know what. you're doing? >> It's a selection. Just like, you know, when you go through Rangers, I went. through RIP. Now they call it RASP. When. I went through Special Forces, they call. it the Q course. You know what I mean? Like our SF Was it SFAS back then? I. don't know what it's called now, right? So, it's its own selection course. >> Would Would you be able to speculate. what they look for? Like if you would. have say, "I'm speculating that they.

would look for this, this, this, and. that.". >> Yeah, I'm not a shrink, but I would tell. you this is what they're looking for. A. man. who won't drive himself is not worth. driving. They don't want that guy. A man. that'll drive himself into the ground, they want that guy. >> Tell me more. >> Well, that's like one of the things they. always say. You know, if a guy's not. worth driving, I'm not driving him. But if a guy's worth driving himself, and he's a true professional, and he'll. work hard, and he'll do stuff, that's.

the guy we want. So, it's not really I. don't You know, the You know, the world. these days, like I get all these. questions these days. What were you. thinking? I was thinking. survive. You know what I mean? Like so I. I don't think there was a. I don't think there's like a. Maybe from a psychologist there's some. like a psychologist could tell you deep. level stuff, but I I think it's simple. as like they're looking for guys who. want to be there, want to do. You know. what I mean? Like doers. That's what.

they're looking for. I always say this. is like every team I've ever been on, I'll take all you take kids out of. school, I'll take all the board. underachievers out of school that are. problem kids. I'll take every one of. them. >> Why is that? >> Because we'll make an army out of them. Cuz they're bored, cuz they're not. engaged. >> Okay, so that's one bored. >> Bored underachievers. There's tons of. them. That was me in school. You know, I. got like C's. I didn't want to be in. school. It's stupid.

You know what I mean? >> the reason why this is so interesting to. me because I have a lot of guys, John, that their their dream was to be Delta. And they did they were gun ho soldiers, ran 12 mile 2 mile, 12 minute 2 miles. They did the 82 push-ups, 82 sit-ups, and they did the correspondence classes. They did everything you asked them and. they were early, late. You know, they. did everything you wanted them to go. They had no problem going to the back 40. regularly. They would do all that stuff. And it was their gym. Now you want me to. get deployed to Camp Casey? Are you want.

me to go over here? Anything you said. they would do it. But they never got. selected. So it's not like they were not. doers. >> Yeah. >> So. you know, is there do they. >> They didn't fit between 87.7. and 89.1. You know what I mean? They. could have been one point off and they. don't get the. the nod, I guess. I don't know what the. army does. >> So when you went in, was it like a dream. or was it like, all right, it's a job. All right, this is. >> I had no idea. There was no internet. Like I didn't know what I was doing. >> You literally had no idea what Delta.

>> I mean like you hear rumors, but like no. one knew back then. You didn't know back. then. >> back then at all. >> Like no one knew. Like the internet has. changed the game dramatically, you know, but. I didn't know about I just. figured. I was in seventh group and like I don't. know. These guys but it wasn't the first. guys that came and talked to me about. selections, you know. There's other. selections in the army that guys that. like tried to recruit me for. >> Not not for Delta, for other things. >> Yes. >> What what would be other things? Would.

it. >> What what would they be? I don't know. I. didn't go. But that guy's kind of. recruiting pitch sucked, you know what I. mean? [laughter] Like. >> What was the second guy's recruiting. pitch? What. >> It was like it was like I was like, so. what would I do? And he was like. you would have great job satisfaction. I. was like. I mean, I could make brake parts and. like a brake factory and like that too, but it doesn't mean I want to do it, you. know what I mean? He was like, you would. have That's what he kept saying to me, great job. He had no answers. Like he.

couldn't even tell me. >> So what sold a guy like you with the. second time on the. >> Um man, these guys like said they kicked doors, you know what I mean? Like at least they. gave me an answer. You know, I felt like the other guy just. talked in a big circle. Who wants to. work for people like that? >> John, when that process happens and. you're being selected the second time, what does the unit say? Do they just. say, "Oh, John got you know, you know, he went to a different unit." What's the. language they speak at the unit? And do. they tell you? Like I I got a call. yesterday. A pretty big business event.

is taking place and this lady tells me, "Hey, you're going to be a part of this. if you accept it." I'm on a contract. with them. So but if you do this, you. can't talk about this, this, this, this, this and that. And she ran through the. entire thing with me. I said, "Okay, great.". It's like a secret high-level secret. clearance for business, okay? So do they tell you, "If we go through. this process, you can't talk to your. wife, you can't talk to your friends, you can't tell them this, you can't tell. them that. You're going to go and you're. going to disappear." What what happens.

next once you're selected? >> All that. Yeah, you disappear. You. already nailed it. >> Wife? >> I mean, yeah, your your wife knows. Uh, I never really told my mom cuz my mom. would have told everybody. You know what. I mean? So, I never really told my mom. But, she would come to my house and be. like, you know, I had a beard, you know. what I mean? I'm just trimming my beard. at my nipples with scissors, you know. what I mean? In a field and then like I. come home and she used to be like,

"You're in the army." I'd be like, "I'm. in the army." Like, "Here's my ID card, you know what I mean?" Like, she. "So, you're in the army. Your grandfather was in the army and he. was clean-shaven. You're in the army.". I'm like, "I am in the army, Mom.". But, that's really all I told her. >> So, you didn't want to tell Mom. Wife. knew. How do How do they know that. wife's not going to say anything? Do. they tell you you can tell your wife. >> Yeah, there's briefings. It's very. >> have a briefing with her or.

>> Oh, of course. >> Oh, seriously? >> Of course. >> So, first process is conversation with. you. Second meeting is with you and your. wife or. >> No, no, no, no, no. There were As you. are kind of like getting ingrained, there's like meetings and stuff, you. know, like. you know, and then I'm sure it's Look, I. was pre-social media. You know what I mean? Pre-cell phones, paper army. It was different back then. God only knows what they got to tell. people today.

I'm. >> You know what I mean? Like, God only. knows. Like, so so much simpler back in. my day. >> But, what what what How do they know. that a wife of a soldier that's about to. go Delta. is loyal to the secrets that you're. committing to? So, let's just say the. marriage doesn't work out. She's going. to go out and tell the world. >> Not my job. I don't know. And And. whoever's dealing with them wives, good. luck. I just want to go on the range and. blow up. I could care less. >> That's kind of how you looked at it. >> Oh, could care less. >> Got it. >> So, so I was skydiving. You know what I. mean? [laughter].

Like I was shooting every day. You know. what I mean? And then and then like. after we get done shooting it's like, "Hey Pat, you want to go do jujitsu? Let's go." You know what I. >> Was there Was there a personality. pattern with guys that were in Delta? Like were they Were they all fairly. charismatic, charming, entertaining? Cuz. even when I talked to my buddy, he says, "You can tell stories better than. anybody else he's met in his life." What. Was it kind of like. Cuz when I sit down with mobsters and I. sit down with guys that became. underboss, like Italian mafia when you. talk, one of the things all of them have. in common, they're all great.

storytellers. Yeah. They all know how to. tell a story. They all know how to kind. of walk you through what happened, why. they did it. Was there a. pattern with all of them having charisma. and charm and personality? >> Yeah, you know, look, it's 88.7, 88.9. Like it's. These guys are so similar. Like But I. will tell you this is like I always felt. like for me, I always felt like I had to work hard. every day to be where I was. And but I. did feel like those guys you talk about,

they're got their Boston Marathon. t-shirts. They got They do all the. push-ups. They do all the sit-ups. They're faster than any human being I've. ever seen. And like you see them and you. see these guys at selection it's like. super intimidating cuz like. Well, I'm just working hard to be here. You know what I mean? And like these. guys are doing all this and then. when you pass selection, I don't know. where they go, but a lot of those guys. go away. But there is, I'm telling you, genetic specimens there. These guys are.

just in. I can't say enough good about the guys. they select and the guys that are in the. squadrons. They're so good, so. talented. And I always felt like. there was stuff I was good at. And what I was not good at, I worked on. every day. So I didn't have any weak. points. You know what I mean? I did the. stuff that I sucked at, everything. >> Such as? >> Oh, man, now, okay. The obstacle course. Like, I never run an obstacle course in. my life, you know, what I mean? And the.

army has some, but it's more of a joke. than like, "Let's run the oath course.". You know, what I mean? It's more of a. joke than anything. They got legit ones with high ropes and. like, I didn't know how to do this. So, I came in like last and then my. counselor had to tell me like, "We've. never letting [clears throat] anyone go. for the old course before. You could be the first." Then like, I'm. like, "No, this ain't happening, right?". So, uh every weekend, Saturday, I'd come in.

and run it. And then, I sought out guys. that were like way better at it than me. Like, best guys in the building. And I. would just approach them in the hallway. "Hey, could you show me this?". And then like, I go run it. And I'd get like, and then what I. realized is my technique was. It It's not that I lacked the strength. or the cardio, you know, what I mean? It's just like, I didn't know where to. put my hand and how to swing from here. to here, like simple stuff, you know? And then by the end of it, I think it.

was raining and like, you know, like the. end of training, like it's competitive. like Jedi you know, what I mean? It's a tight window, like, you know, guys are mad You You lose a point, you're in third, you know, what I'm. saying? And like, I think I finished. like third. It was raining, guys had. like spun out of the track, you know, what I mean? Cuz it's wet, but I done it. so many times, so I just kind of. breathed through, right? So, I tried to. always work on what I was weak at.

>> I heard one of the When we did the air. assault, the last thing I had to do was. the the 50-mi ruck march that they do in. Kentucky, you know, Fort Campbell. >> Hardest 10 days in the army. >> You're so funny. Yeah. And they said, "Hey, you're a big guy. Let's give you. the saw." And I'm like, "All right, okay. Well, I I lift weights. I can bench three. plates. Give me the saw. I got it. Not a. problem." And I go through this, and at. the end of it the guy says, "Look, whatever you guys do, don't lay down. Just don't lay down. Don't lay down and.

go to your barracks." So, I'm like, my. body can handle it. I go lay down. My. body is literally frozen like this. They. had to come and put me in a warm water. to kind of loosen up. It took about 30. minutes, right? But, I heard one of the. things they did is. you know, maybe this is even special. forces, maybe this is not even selection. for Delta. The 40-miler, where they give. you, you know, 13 maps or 12 maps or. whatever it is. They What is that all. about? >> Yeah, that's what that's about. Like, you got like 13 maps. I don't know. I.

don't remember, but. yeah, uh it's something you got to do, and. it's a lot of maps. You know what I mean? And like, they'll. give you a point, and you're like, and you know how big the map sheets are. I'm not joking, and you're like, >> [snorts]. >> oh crap, I got to go two map sheets over. to this point, you know what I mean? And. I get the walking. >> states?

>> Yeah. >> It's in the states. >> Yeah. >> Uh okay, so then listen, you you're not. a dummy. I know sometimes guys are like, "Well, I'm just a regular guy." And. those are some of the most brilliant. guys in the world. The guys that try to. tell you how dumb they are, they're some. of the most brilliant guys that are high. EQ, you know, you're not going to choose. Delta guys who are "Duh, I'll just go. kill people." And that's all we're. looking for. There's no way in the world. they're selecting people like that. I'm. assuming you guys are some of the most. brilliant guys out there that uh have a. balance of EQ and a balance of IQ. Would.

you agree with a little bit of that? >> think you're right on that. >> Yeah, it's hard to find people like. that. >> Yeah. Yeah, that's what they're looking. for. That's that window, you know what I. mean? >> 88.7 to 88.9. >> Whatever whatever [laughter] it is, you. know what I mean? And I'm like, and I. could have got the numbers wrong. He. could have said different numbers, too. >> So, prior to being selected, did you did. you already have a highly decorated. career? >> No, I was just a. new guy, regular guy. You know, look, I. I've been through Ranger Battalion. I. did I did my 5 years. I did well, four.

and then like four and a half. Like, the. Sergeant Major was like, you got to go. work in the army somewhere. It's like, I. didn't want to leave being a Ranger. And. I didn't want to end up in Korea. Nothing against Korea, but I. had no want to go there, you know what I. mean? And that's where it seems like. they were sending people. Uh, cuz. that's where they send people, right? So, I had no desire. So, I was like, I'll try this special forces thing. And. then I've been on a team uh, special I. went through the Q course. I was on a.

special forces team like not even a year. and then. I was like, this looks cool and I went. >> They told me about it. >> like a new guy, you know what I mean? >> So, nothing like there was nothing in. the past that just goes I was a super. soldier. Let's go. >> No, nothing. I mean, I no. I had nothing. >> I remember they would say guys would. come back from Camp Casey. They would. say, "There's rumors in Camp Casey. If. you get a certain STD, they keep you. there for a year or 2 years until you. get cleaned up." I don't know if you've. ever heard the story or. >> No. >> They would say some stuff that would. scare the out of you. They're like, "Dude, you do not want to go to Korea,

you know? And if you go there, don't do. anything because some of the STDs they. don't have anywhere in the world. It's. like an epidemic. They don't want to. release it to the world." I'm like, "Oh. my god." You know, they would scare the. crap out of you. >> heard any of that. I heard it was cold. and I'm like, I don't want to go. somewhere Imagine being in outside where. it's cold all the time. Like, we did. that once in a while in Ranger. Battalion. It sucked, you know what I. mean? I didn't want to go nowhere cold. >> So, what what was the first mission you. went on. where you're like, I can actually do. this. I'm capable.

And people saw that. you know, John Shrek McAfee is. special when it comes out to the moments. like that. What was the first moment for. you? First one you got deployed on? >> Uh. man, I don't know. Um. I would. >> You've you've been on a lot of. interesting yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah, I would say this is um. like when you get out of training and. you get to your team, like I felt like I. was. personally capable, you know what I mean? Like I. you know, I could handle firearms, I.

could skydive, I could handle myself, right? But I didn't know how all of it. worked yet. Does that make sense? So, I. felt like I came really well prepared. from training, but I really didn't know. how to apply. >> to to a real-life situation. >> Yeah, to like any situation. >> Because speed accelerates or because. it's like. >> No, cuz like uh. you know, it's like look, I I bet for. you it's like college, right? You go to. marketing school, but when you get your.

first marketing job, this is where. rubber hits the road, right? And like. you might have to do stuff that works. that no one ever told you about, and you. might, you know, stuff they told you. about may or may not work, right? So, it's it's kind of like an experience. thing, you know what I mean? But I did feel like I came well prepared. from training. >> Got it. So, training ends and you're. selected, you're in. What happens next? Do they tell you, "John, you're going to XYZ?". >> Uh well, you go to a team, and then you.

got to make your own way. You know what I mean? You One thing you. got in this world and that's your name, and try not to it up, you know what. I mean? >> And and is it like, "Here's where you're. going?". Or you're waiting Are you waiting on a. call? Is a team. or you're just. >> you're on a team. It's yeah, you work. with these five guys, four guys, three, whatever, all the time. >> Are you here? Are you in the States? Are. you out somewhere, you know, on a mission all the time? >> Well, you're based out of the States. here. You know what I mean?

>> What percentage of time are you spending. here? What percentage are you. >> Um it's all cycles. The army does. cycles, you know, like and you know. this. It's quarterly or the government. cycle, you know what I mean? So, it's. all cyclical just like the army does. >> What's Is Is it a regular schedule or. you at a regular unit like going to PT. with everybody else? Are you. >> So, it's a regular job. There's a place. you go to work every day, you know what. I mean? And then uh kind of my. day-to-day was I would come in around. 6:00. I would do cardio till about 7:30.

I'd walk to the chow hall. I'd eat. breakfast. And then at 8:00, we'd shoot. till about 10:30, right? We'd be on the. range whether it's shooting, blowing. stuff up, just some type of training, mostly shooting. Uh and then 10:30 to 1:00, uh I would do jujitsu. I would sometimes. work out. And then I'd go to lunch. And. at 1:00, we shoot till like 3:00 or. 4:00. And then you could go back to the. gym. You could go for whatever. And then.

I did the old course once a week. generally. I got in the pool a couple. times a week. Um man, you know what I'm. saying? So, with my day-to-day schedule. was cardio in the morning, shooting, then jujitsu and weights, lunch, and. then shooting, and then I'd go home or. do something else. >> Is that all all of you or that was your. schedule? >> Um well, that's pretty much the. schedule. I mean, you could do whatever. you want. You could just show up at. 8:00, right? But I would That's kind of. my personal.

>> Okay, got it. So, it's not like it's a. Is it fairly an independent. decentralized without somebody holding. you accountable? Hey, John, get off your. Where were you at 6:00 a.m.? >> You are accountable at all times. There. is no not accountable in a job like. that. >> And And then Is it a well-known military. base you're at or are you on a. >> I live in North Carolina. >> Fort Bragg? >> Yeah. >> Got it. >> Yeah. >> And are you going and eating with other. guys from different units and just. regular like you're going to regular. chow halls and stuff, yeah? >> I uh ate breakfast and lunch in the chow.

hall generally cuz you're right there. Uh dinner you usually get somewhere. else. >> And when other people ask you, "So, what. do you do for a living? What's your. MOS?" What do you say? >> Dirt farmer. >> Dirt farmer. >> Yeah, I used that for a long time. >> [laughter]. >> But then if you're talking to a couple. of the guys, do they know or nobody. knows? >> Um. I mean, you know. pre-beards day, you know, like no before. guys started having beards when I had a. beard, like nobody knew. Like.

even my mom didn't believe I was in the. army. You know, after Afghanistan when. everyone has a beard, like you could. pick these guys out you amongst. paratroopers for sure, you know. >> Got it. So, now now. So, then so then it's not like the army. is trying to hide it as much as they. claim. It's like this elite organization. that nobody knows about. Like it's not. like the fight club wink wink if you're. in it, don't tell anybody, you know, it's just between us boys. >> The internet ruined it. >> The internet ruined it. >> I think so. The internet ruined. everything. You can't keep a secret.

Seriously, you think there's real. secrets with the internet and. >> Was it the internet or was it that one. Delta guy that wrote a book about it, like what it is to be uh uh I don't know. what the name of the book was. You know. who I'm talking about that. >> No, I don't read them type of books. You. know what I mean? >> and then and then guys were upset. They're like, "Why would he write this. book? Why would he tell our story?". There was some controversy type behind. it. >> Look. I look at it this way. Um. my brother, my own family, like once.

they found out what I did, they have a. million questions for me. Right? There's nothing I would say to. them that I wouldn't say to you. You. know, there's nothing. I'm not divulging secrets. I'm just. telling you about my life. And you know, the officers can write their books, but. yet the guys can't talk about it? That seems ridiculous, too, doesn't it? So, um I just look at it this way, man. I. just try to tell my stories. I would. want my kids to hear this, you know? I. would I would hope that like.

my [clears throat] stories and loving. the army, I hope I'm spawning a whole. generation. to join. Matter of fact, the army should. be paying me for recruiting. Where's. this Where's these army dollars at? You. know what I mean? Like that's how much I. love the army. So, like why shouldn't I. talk about it? You know what I mean? And. then look, you know, I was. I would thank everybody I ever served. with. I'm so grateful in so many ways, but you know, like look, if I can't talk. about it, who should?

You know what I mean? Because there's so. many guys like your buddy who Well, they're not well adjusted yet, you know? Like you know, there's I hear there's I. don't know where this is, but I hear. there's veterans that don't like. fireworks. Uh. I used to get mortared and rocketed. Boy, I will buy a thousand dollars worth. of fireworks from South Carolina where. the good fireworks are and we're going. to have a good time, you know? Like. But like look, I hear there's guys that. that, you know, that have those things and it's like.

it's not all bad, you know what I mean? So, if if I can't tell my stories, well, who should? Who do you want talking? >> Do they tell you don't talk or no? Do. you get calls and say, "Hey, stop. talking. You're talking too much.". >> No, no. I've never They've never messed. with me at all. >> it was this book, Inside the Delta Force. by a guy named Eric Haney. Uh '02, so I don't know when Facebook. and YouTube came out, but some of the. guys. you talk to, they'll say, "Hey, you. should never talk about what's going on. in you know, there was some criticism. behind. the unit skirmish.". I'm trying to see it Was this guy Can.

you go up a little bit? Go up the other way? Yeah, if you can. Key operations. Haney shares a. first-hand book of grueling, highly. selective training versus al-Qaeda and. also. He recounts several major deployments. and stuff. Yeah, so when I when I talk. like at least at that time, it was like why would this guy talk. about it? So, okay, so you're at a. regular unit, you're going. >> But but the commanders and generals can. write about it and that's okay. It seems like a double standard which. the Army says it doesn't do. >> Was he a commander or general or. >> Uh no, he was uh enlisted guy, wasn't.

he? What's this thing say? Like I don't. even. >> For special force operations. more commonly known as Alpha Force. In. recent years, he has been writing on. terrorism and stuff. Go a little bit lower to see his. military career. Uh Haney joined the Army in 1970. >> B Squadron. >> B Squadron? >> We found the problem. Look no further, friend. >> B Squadron? So, what's the difference? Tell me about what is there anything to. it or no? Like what is B Squadron to be. a part of? >> Oh, A Squadron. >> A Squadron. Got it. >> I mean, it's the first letter of the.

alphabet. [laughter]. A number one. You know what I mean? I. mean, come on, you know what I mean? >> It and is that a. >> want to get B's in school or would you. rather had an A, you know what I mean? >> But is is it is it like uh joining the. Navy SEAL versus being SEAL Team Six? Is. that kind of look A and B? >> Take those words out of your mouth. I'm. not even going there. There's no. comparison. >> Between Delta and Navy SEAL? >> No comparison. >> Tell me why. >> Well, any day of the week I I say this. all the time. Any day of the week a Navy.

SEAL could go to unit selection and. become a unit guy. And if you've crossed. over, talk to them. They'll tell you. And plus, I'm an Army guy. I should be giving the Navy SEALs. you know what I mean? It's my job as an. Army guy. And it's their job as Navy. guys to give it back to me, you know. what I mean? Like that's the way I see. it. So, uh yeah, I would It's not a. comparison. >> Come on. >> In what way though? In what way is it. not a comparison? >> Oh, it's not a comparison. And they'll even tell you. Like read.

their books, you know what I mean? They'll even tell you. >> Be specific though. Like what Tell me. because you guys are more capable in you. guys show up better in. >> The unit was made to be. self-sustaining. They need nothing. The SEALs were not. And this kind of weak it's them because. they need. augmentees to do odd jobs where we have. all our We talked about this. The. engineers, the prime power. We have all.

these people. It's the way the army's. made. You know what I mean? It's the way it. was designed. It's the charter. There's. a charter. It's all written down. If someone cared to read it, which I had. to as a sergeant major, they would have. figured all this out, but. I hate to burst anyone's bubble here. You know what I mean? Like. >> [laughter]. >> Were [clears throat] there any Navy SEAL. guys that came through to Delta and you. were like, all right, good respect? >> All of them. All of them respect. Yeah, all of them has crossed over. And.

look, you make it to the unit, you get. my respect right now, man. I love them. guys, you know what I mean? >> Did anybody do the opposite? Did anybody. go from Delta to Navy SEAL? >> do that. >> Why can't you? >> You tell me. This is what I've been talking about. >> The charter? >> The charter. Yeah, so it's just the way it is. It's. the way it was built. Like it's not my. fault. Man, I'm just telling you how it was. written. >> What. What What is the history of like Delta?

When when did it happen and how did it. happen? Was it something that. >> probably read it in that book. >> You can't tell me you don't know how it. happened. Like you Did Did it. >> Come on. >> Come on, John. They didn't tell you. >> Uh. I wasn't around then. >> Okay. But do they tell you the history. like this it got started because of. >> desert desert eagle. Desert. Basically, uh when they went to go save. the hostages in Iran during Reagan, right, the aviation a helicopter hit an. airplane and like burned to the ground.

or something. Uh and this is what spawned uh we needed. a more professional force. Right? Um and the unit had been training. for that, but that's where. like it all starts to come together. Now, the unit had been created for. counter terror stuff. You know, SF teams. were doing it, the unit was doing it. I. don't know. I don't know how it even got. there to be honest. It's way before my. time. Uh I probably was told to read. about this and forgot. So, you're. probably putting me on the spot, you.

know what I mean? But I probably should. know, but um you know, it was it was. made somewhere in the '70s or something, you know? I mean, I used to look at all the old. pictures of the guys who made it. You. know, a lot of bad hair and mustaches. through the '70s, you know? And I mean, I had a mullet in the '80s, so I had bad. hair, too, but uh. a lot of cool pictures, a lot of cool. >> Can you spot a Delta Force? Can you spot. a Delta guy? >> No. >> So, it's like if you. >> But hey, but I could spot every Navy. SEAL. >> [laughter]. >> You know what I mean? Navy SEALs,

CrossFitters, and vegans, you know what. I mean? They'll tell you. Come on. >> Vegans, Navy SEALs, vegans. >> [laughter]. >> And CrossFitters. >> Yeah. That's right. CrossFitters. Uh okay, so. walk walk me through, maybe share with. the audience the story of what happened. with Saddam Hussein. Were you out there. looking for him and you you got a bunch. of things. You even had, I think, one of. the hats that that he had. >> Yeah, so there's a picture where he's. like shooting a Mauser in the air. Uh I had that hat. I gave it to Zack. Bagans at the Haunted Museum. Yeah, that's the. Yeah, where he's holding the thing up.

Um yeah. Saddam, um. you know, one of my day jobs was to. coordinate intelligence. um between the government and us. cuz we just The war requires bodies, you. know what I mean? I I This is something. no one really understands is the war. requires a lot of bodies. I mean, look, I know I talk about my stuff and what I. did, but for me to re- even roll out the. door, you know how many people it takes?

I mean, you know the army, right? There's intelligence, the engineers how. to build the place for me to stay, the. the intelligence needs to lead me to a. target, right? So, so many people, but. um. I had to read all these reports and kind. of figure out, you know, who's what. Um. we ended up getting like his tailor, his. bodyguards, his bodyguards, the deck of. cards. We got a ton of them. The other. squadrons got a ton of them. Uh. unit kind of cleaned the deck, I think.

And then, um you know, I always thought. the Saddam capture was really on a. timeline. >> [clears throat]. >> You know what I mean? And the timeline. was for Junior, I think, more than. anything else. >> Who day? >> Huh? No, no, Junior, Bush Junior. >> Oh, Bush Junior, got it. >> Right? Because. if you start a war, but you don't get. the guy you're after in your term, that. don't look good. So, I always figured. like.

we had to finish this for him. You know. what I mean? Now, I I I'd have done. anything for the guy, but I always felt. like that was kind of like the deal. You know, there's a timeline on this. You know what I'm saying? >> And and timeline meaning like if the. next administration comes, it may have. shut down and the mission wouldn't have. been accomplished. >> Shut it all down. >> Legacy and all this stuff. >> Yeah, we're almost there and they shut. it all down like they do so many times. >> How do you see the court comparison with. the, you know, Saddam and maybe what's. going on right now with Iran and how.

they took out, you know, the supreme. leader and they took out all the. leaders, the mom, the dad, the, you. know, everybody. Do you see a. correlation? >> Come on. I don't believe taking out Saddam. Hussein made this world a better place. I loved being in Iraq. I had the time of. my life. I say it's all the time. However, I don't believe strategically. time would test the time. It wasn't a. great idea. You know what I mean? So, I uh the test.

of time will show how we this up, but I don't always believe we make great. decisions. I we do our best as No one's. got bad intent, you know what I mean? But at the same time, still gets. up. So, um. I don't know, you know, I don't know how. Iran's going to pan out. I don't think. anyone does, you know what I mean? But I. will say this is um. the capture Saddam I do believe was. always the timeline, some type of. timeline. And then at the same time, you had.

emerging threats. You had Zarqawi. growing and in the background and you. know, other stuff going on, the. insurgency in Iraq. So, there was other. stuff bubbling in the background at the. same time, you know, we had a focus and. capture Saddam. >> And would you guys get briefings and. say, "Here's what you need to know about. this. Here's what we need to know about. this." Or was it kind of like, "Hey, this is what we need you to do." Was. there a briefing of like. >> explaining who the enemy was? >> No. Look, I s-. There was no intelligence. There was no.

human intelligence. No intelligence. agency had intelligence agents in Iraq. There was no intel at all. >> Seriously? >> Seriously. We did operations to gain. intel, which is backwards in special. operations. And we used to have I used. to think about this. We used to talk. about this like, "So, you want us to go. out there and and get this guy?" So, we. find something out. And then that's just. how it works. And then we. Look, man hunting is like uh.

a sweater. You're wearing a sweater. If I was to pull the right thread or the. perfect thread off your sweater, the arm. might fall off. I'm looking for that one. thread, but how many threads are in this. sweater? >> Thousands. >> And then, you know, so the intelligence. agencies might say sources are worthless. and we're not doing it. We're in the. army, we're running every thread to. ground, period. >> So, a form of Delta is also playing.

intel? Are you also playing a role? >> got to have your own intel. I mean, >> Are you reporting it up? >> Always. There's There's no It's This is all. 1,000%. oversight at the highest levels. No one. wants to No one wants unit guys running. around not being checked. >> How did you guys view the CIA? Who was. the CIA to you? I mean, you all. obviously have strong opinions about the. Navy SEAL. What did you guys think about. the CIA? >> I don't work there.

That should tell you something. I thought I wanted to work there at one. time, and I thought that would be my. future as I just work for them the rest. of my life and then and then. I won't work for the government again. >> For the government or specifically CIA? >> Any part of the government. >> Why is that? >> Cuz I seen them in action in war. You know what I mean? I just know too. much about how this works. So, uh I wasn't impressed, obviously, and uh.

um. I felt like all forms of government I. also feel like not just the intel piece, but the the nation-building piece. I. feel like the State Department failed. Iraq also. It's not the army's job to. reorganize everything. You know what I mean? So, I feel like. there's a lot of failures. >> Okay. So, let's go there, because what. happens, you know, we say we have the. greatest military in the world. >> We do. >> What do we do.

if guys like you don't want to serve? Because a guy may listen to this and be. discouraged to want to serve cuz like, I. don't ever want to work for the. government. If If John Shrek McAfee is. doing saying this McAfee is saying this, what am I going to be doing, right? So. >> Everybody's got dreams. Maybe someone. was born to want to join the FBI. I. would tell you get in there right now. Go be the best. Whatever you could, I would never. discourage anybody, but at the same. time, I don't want to do it. Just like I. don't watch TV. I don't watch the news.

You know what I mean? [clears throat]. It's just what I. >> Even till today, you don't watch TV or. the news? >> I stopped watching the news and the. Warriors. They were wrong so much. I. just turned it off and never looked. back. >> It's funny, my friend said the same. thing. The guy I'm talking to, he said. he says we would we would watch the news. and we're like, "No, they're lying. That's not happening. We're here right. now. That's not taking place.". >> I just woke up and this is what you're. baby milk factory? I wouldn't call that. green sludge baby milk. You know what I. mean? Like and our our chemical guy. couldn't even figure out what the. it was. So, it definitely wasn't baby.

milk. You know what I mean? And I'm. like, that's it, man. You guys are. wrong. It's fear-based. I turned it off. >> What when's when's the first moment you. had where you're like, these guys are. full of Who was it? Do you. remember it like. >> Man, there was. uh. We raided this place. It had this green. sludge. We left, gave it to the army. I was. We've been out all night. It's morning. time. And then like my boss says, "Hey, we got to turn around and go back.".

And I'm like. uh-uh, we're going to bed. Uh-uh. And he. just starts laughing. He's like, "Turn. around." So, I turned the vehicle. around. And there's a mushroom cloud in Baghdad. Place blew up somehow. I don't think. baby milk is volatile at all. You know. what I mean? Do you Have you ever seen. baby milk blow up in a microwave maybe? I don't know. >> Who reported that? Who reported that it was baby milk. blowing up? >> The news. Like CNN It had to be CNN cuz. it's the only real news back then.

>> So, they're reporting this. You guys are. At that time, were you guys coming home. and watching the news to see what's. going on to see what what's being. reported or not? You are? >> Yeah. >> Cuz you're you're doing this. So, let's. see what they're going to say. They play. it, operations. >> center. They're playing the news at all. times. You know what I mean? >> At the operations center. So, people are. and why are they doing that? Are they. just trying to. >> Everybody like CNN was on all the time. back then. You know that. Everyone just. watched CNN especially in the army. >> [laughter]. >> You think the army is going to tell you. what's going on? We're watching CNN.

>> No. >> But I realized they were just they're. just lies. >> Did you ever have an experience with the. CIA where you're like I I can't trust. these guys? >> Yes. >> What what happened? >> Stuff. So much stuff. I don't even remember, but yes. >> And and that's what led you to not. trusting those guys? >> Mhm. >> The energy I'm getting from you is there. was there there is a. level of frustration or not even. frustration lack of trust for them. that's slightly above everybody else.

Would you agree with that or not? >> I don't trust them. >> Why? >> You know what I mean? Well, first off. like a lot of them are. through the war years they're just. college kids. They were recruiting kids. right out of college. You know what I. mean? And you know, the [clears throat]. next thing is I thought. um. beginning Afghanistan. I think these like. mid-level guys or station chiefs or you. know, whatever, right? Uh just a little above case officers. I. think they thought Afghanistan and Iraq.

was going to be like France after World. War II. They were going to be in. chateaus in their best clothes and. they're going to be cheers in and you. know, down with whatever they I don't. know what the people would even say. at a party like that. You wouldn't get. me in those clothes, but uh that's what. they thought. And then here we are. getting rocketed every night. You know. what I mean? Like mortared rocket. especially in the beginning Afghanistan. Like they come they're rocketing you. every night mortaring you every.

So, [snorts]. they didn't get what they bargained for. and a lot of them were just kids. Like I. mean, how do you blame? I don't blame. anybody, you know, everyone had good. intent, but like, you know, some. 23-year-old girl they recruit out of. college, now she's in Baghdad trying to. run sources counter to Zarqawi, who's. just going to kill you if they even get. with they you talked to somebody. Yeah, come on. It's ridiculous, right? So, it's. I don't think there's anyone has bad. intent, but it's several layers of kind. of I don't think they really had a good.

plan. And you'd think like, well, who. would have the good plan? Well, if they don't got a good plan, who's got a good plan? And then you realize like, well, we're. the only ones like kind of. doing what we say. >> What were some of the unconventional. ways you got intel? >> Uh I don't even know what that means. >> Meaning, like, if you if I go in, find. somebody that is like I remember you. told a story about uh Saddam had this. one girl that he liked a lot and she.

wasn't that pretty, so he went to the. husband and you know, you got So, what. was unconventional ways you got intel? >> Uh yeah, wives, the the tailor, his. butlers, like. I don't know if there is an. unconventional way. It I mean, I. I don't even know what that means, you. know, like. >> way to get it. >> Any way to get it. >> And the reason I said uncon-. >> and if they got beef, if someone's. husband wants to sleep with someone's. wife and you're going to tell on these.

guys, like okay, where are they at? I. don't care. how we get these guys. They're on our. list, we need to go get them. If that makes sense. >> Mhm. >> So, it's always a never-ending we're. getting these guys to answer these. questions. It's a it's a puzzle piece. You know what I mean? And we're just. filling in these puzzle pieces one guy. at a time. And then, I would say this is. like everyone thinks like you need these. these guys got these massive secrets. No.

I just need to know who who owned the. truck you were in cuz we already know. most of the story. Who owned the truck? All these questions, what we're looking. for is like they're just silly benign. questions. You're not going to die for. that. Ahmed owned the truck. Like I I don't. know. You know what I mean? Like so. you know, these people think there's. this like you really got to get like. answers out of these people. Most of. them will just tell you if you write the. answer to the right questions cuz.

you know, they think you're going to. a lot of times. people think like you're going to kill. them or they're being robbed. Like you. know, how many I can't tell you how many. nights we raided houses in Baghdad and. the family was relieved we weren't. Iraqis because Iraqis will also rob you. So, they're just relieved to deal with. Americans. You know, and the questions. we ask, you know, who owned the truck? You know what I mean? Who did you meet. with yesterday?

Right? Like these are nothing questions. So, when framed correctly, the guy will. just tell you. I'll tell you that I used to do this all. the time. You know how to get a guy to. tell you who he is? I'd walk up to the. guy and I'd hold my little pictures up. to him. and give him a really stern look and I'd. be like, "Fucking Saddam.". And you know what the guy is going to. say? "No Saddam. No Saddam. Muhammad.". I'd be like, "Mhm, he's on the list. Get. him out of here. Next guy.". "Saddam." "No Saddam." Right? Like the.

best way to do it is accuse him of being. someone you know they're going to put to. death. They'll tell you who they are, but if you ask them their name, they're. going to lie to you. I used to do that all the time. >> So, so the reason why I ask these. questions about the unconventional way. of getting intel is because CIA is not. capable of doing what you guys are. capable of doing. To to get the intel, one must fear for their lives to. eventually give the information. Would. you agree, like some of the higher level. intel?

>> Um. >> Hand made [music] in Portugal. Where craftsmanship is a way of life. For those who move through life. differently. From sunlit decks to nights that never. need an occasion. Every detail is considered. Every [music] step effortless. Crafted from fine suede and built with. [music] builder technology. Designed to. move with you. Because true luxury isn't about being. noticed. >> [music]. >> It's about how you feel when you arrive.

The FLB icon loafer. [music]. Made for the life you've earned. >> I mean, you know, if you're going to. play that game, you know what I mean, you better play it to the end as a. terrorist. You know what I'm saying? >> If you're going to If you're going to. play If If they. >> No, they have to play that game. They're. playing the terror game. They know we're. coming after them. You better play your. part to the end, you know what I mean?

>> John, what's a 101 face-off you had with. a guy, an enemy, that. he was sizing you up that you're like, I. don't think this guy is scared. I got to. make a statement. Did you have a lot of. those moments? >> Never once. >> Never once. >> You ain't sizing me up. I'd already put. you down. What are you talking about? Why would I let it get this far? >> Really? >> It's how you survive. Why would you let anyone square up on. you? Such a bad idea. I'd already. stopped this. >> At At what point? But if you're trying. to get information out of me, you kill. me, you didn't get anything out of me.

>> A guy squares up on me, I'm going to put. him down. I could care less what he. knows right now. >> up, you're putting him down. >> Yeah. You know. Let people threaten you during war? It's a It's a risk you and your guys. can't take, especially in small teams. I wouldn't even let that happen. Or if a. guy wanted to square up on me, I'd. already be gone. If I I alone. I wouldn't even allow it to happen. So, why even get there? >> What's the closest call you ever had? I. know you you probably had. >> Lots. I'll tell you the worst thing is. the mortars.

Cuz you could hear them coming in and. they're coming crump. And they get. louder, crump. Crump. You know what I mean? And then. And then, you know, they'll land them in. the camp sometimes, you know? Guy rained. I One night, I think a ranger was. injured trying to pee and mortar round. came in and. shrapneled his. and his man parts. You know what. >> Stop. You know what I'm saying? >> That's rough. >> Um but look, uh I think that's the worst. stuff is you're just, you know, and I. got to the point where like guys will be. like, "What are we going to do?" I'll be.

like, "I'm staying in my bunk. If it. hits me and disintegrates me, I'll never. know anyway. I'm going to sleep.". It's all you can do. So, I would say [clears throat] the. mortars and rockets are like the worst. You know what I mean? >> The mortars and rockets. >> Yeah. And when you say small team, how. big were the teams? Three, four, five? What Yeah, I mean, it depends. Like. [clears throat] you know, war requires. bodies. You know what I mean? We could. be down to two waiting for people. Like. we could have however many, you know? So, always small teams. I went out alone.

a lot. I worked with uh I would go out. with other guys, you know? But. um generally speaking, you know, like. very small teams, couple guys here or. there. >> You prefer going alone or with a team? >> Yeah, I'd rather go alone. >> Why why is that? >> Um. because this is going to go my way. You know what I mean? When you're with a. group, uh I think you end up having a group. dynamic and I think you overlook a lot. of things that you would look.

where you would look at very critically. when you were alone. Like when I was. alone, I learned a hundred to one over. when I would go out with like a dozen. guys and we're going to raid houses. Like. who wants to oppose us? You'd be stupid, right? But you know, when you're alone, you can't be taking those risks. So, it's always it's always different. switching of gears for me anyway. You. know, and when I was with a group of. guys, like. there's two of us. I know what I can do. You guys didn't have a chance to begin.

with. >> Yeah. Uh do you remember the first time you. took somebody out, took one of the. enemies out? >> Uh man, the Battle of Tora Bora. Like I. don't know how many people. I mean, you. can probably Google how many people we. killed the first day, but it was a like. too many to count for sure. Like. >> Is that Is that your first ever? >> Yeah. Yeah, my first time in battle was. the Battle of Tora Bora. >> Did you have a reaction the first time? loved it. Are you kidding me? >> You loved it. >> It was great. I mean, I didn't know.

Honestly, I didn't know if it was. incoming or outgoing. I was getting. mortared. I didn't know I mean, another. guy, but uh I thought it was great, man. I I kind of like. I don't know. I felt at ease. Like I. knew. maybe this is what I was supposed to do. I don't know, but. uh yeah. And then like yeah, we we were. decimating those guys. So, I I stopped counting on my first. day. >> And this is still a with a small team. that you're taking a bunch of people. out. >> Yeah.

>> like you're dealing with a big team. >> Yeah. >> So, on any given day, what could be the. high-low number on people you guys took. out? >> There was hundreds. >> There's hundreds. >> On any given. >> What's it say on this thing? Hundreds. Like I don't even know. I didn't count. Like. I'm going to tell you. all these guys counting, I don't even. know where the this comes from cuz. like. who got time for all the counting? You. know what I [clears throat] mean? Like I. don't think uh guys that count have seen. it. Like.

much bigger, many more bodies, mass. casualties. I don't think they've seen. those things. You know what I mean? Um but like so many, it's not even. funny. >> Did you you see like Are there different. ways people react to it or is it pretty. much all the same? >> Um okay. I think if this goes right for you, I. think you'll never have a problem with. it. And I try to do this when a guy. when one of my guys shot somebody.

in the moment, I tell him this is. exactly what I expect of you. This is. good work, right? You need to hear that. on the spot. Okay, next. I would try to, if I had time, cut off. the shirt and look at the shot placement. cuz as the. as the boss. >> the shirt? >> Yeah, I'm in charge of the marksmanship, you know what I mean? We need to see if. these rounds are where they should have. been, you know? So I would check the. marksmanship on guys and I would show. him these shots are perfect. Keep doing.

what you're doing. Couldn't have done. better. And then when we get back, I'd. make everybody drink and the guy that. don't drink, grab a cup. I give a little. a little drink to everybody. And we. toast. That guy will never have a problem after. that. >> [laughter]. >> You know, but look. I'm telling you, it works. You don't. Anyone that's worked for me, you don't. see them complaining about PTSD. You. don't see me screaming about it. You know what I mean? Now, I've had. every symptom. and one. And like here I am. I live on. bonus points, you know what I mean? So.

uh but uh you know, I don't think it's a. huge deal. I think it's a human. condition and there's a way to deal with. it and deal with it correctly so we can. all move on. >> Is there a Is there a positive natural. high where you want more of it or no? >> Man, I tell people this all the time. You might have to do stuff sometimes you. don't like. And then other times, that same stuff, you might like it. Right? It's the times you like it that. you should be concerned with. >> It's the times you would like it that. you should. >> Yeah, there's certain guys I could have.

really cared less what happened to this. guy on certain nights, you know You know. I mean? >> One of your guys? >> Uh, mostly bad guys. >> Okay. >> You know what I mean? Like there's. certain bad guys where like however the. night pans out like I could really care. if this guy lived or died the night. You. know what I mean? And there's other. times where like man, you feel for. people and you know, you got to think. like it was we dealt with a lot of. people, family, kids, like you know, you. you you you come get the man of the. house, he's got a family.

You got to deal with them, too. You know what I mean? >> What was that like? If you just took. somebody out, the wife is sitting there, the kids are sitting there, how do you. handle. that? >> you know, it depends on how it's going. down. Some of them wives go nuts. Like. they know without this man in the house. their life is over. You know what I. mean? Just culturally. So like that didn't always go great. >> W- what what what what could that look. like when you say some of them went. >> ton of screaming, trying to scratch up. your face. Like. I mean, you don't understand what. they're saying, but you kind of know.

what they're going through. >> Did they ever take out guns themselves. and come after you? >> Uh, yeah, I seen a lady with out an AK. once. It didn't go well for her. You. know what I mean? >> I'm assuming she's no longer with us. >> Uh, no, no, we didn't we just lumped her. up a little bit. You know what I mean? We didn't have to shoot her. >> So most of the time you guys didn't take. out the wives. >> Nah. Nah, we're not messing with them at. all. You know what I mean? Or the kids. You know, but you got to come get this. dude out of this house. We got questions for this dude.

You know, and a lot of times these these. guys would bring their families to gun. fights. Bring them out on the streets. and like. you know what I mean? Like. >> What? What for? >> Cowards. >> Yeah, shields, cowards. I don't know. Crazy what you'd see it all the time. >> So when you hear stories about them. using their own family as shields, there's credibility behind that. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Kids, including kids? >> Yeah. >> How did you guys handle that? >> Oh, it yeah, you work around it.

I mean do they grab rifles? Are they. combatants or not? >> Say the kids grab rifles. >> Well, that's their choice. You voted. you've chose poorly. >> Got it. So, if it if a 9-year-old kid. picks up a rifle. >> and he wants to shoot you, you're not. going to shoot him back. >> What movie was it that was in one of the. scenes Americans I don't know which. American Sniper was where there's a. scene where that happens with the kid. and. um. >> Okay, first off, if a kid had an AK and. I was 300 yd away on a roof, like.

I wouldn't shoot him. You know what I'm saying? >> It's only if you. >> a threat. It's only if you're a threat. Cuz everyone carries an AK. And? Every adult male should have an AK in. Afghanistan and Iraq. They're not really. civilized places, you know what I mean? And the policy was even even these, you. know, these generals who now say America. shouldn't have guns, even those guys as. policy was you had to leave one AK per. house per male.

They got to defend themselves. >> Did Did moments where you had a young. kid that have a, you know, AK with them. that try to defend the family like, "Listen, if you're going to take me out, I'm going to take you out." Did those. land with soldiers in a different way or. the same? No, you you're trying to kill. me, I'm going to kill you. >> I mean, everyone takes it differently. I. look at it this way, you pick up a gun. and you point it at me and you're about.

to shoot, you already voted against me, I'm going to vote against you. >> Got it. >> It's that simple. I mean, what what else. do you do? You want to just stand there and die? Watch it happen? You want to just watch. all the way till the bullet hits you, you know? I don't. >> Would guys ask you this question what to. do in those moments or it's instinct? >> Um uh a little of both, it depends. Are. we just sitting here waiting for this to. happen or did this just happen in front. of us, you know? >> So so.

there's this side of you on the podcast. side, right? Where people watch you and. you're extremely entertaining, right? >> Yeah. >> But the guys that you talk to who were. with you. >> Yeah. >> when you were. in the game. demanding. pushing, challenging, high expectations. How different is the John today from the. John at 30 years old and if I'm in your. unit? >> Uh man, uh I was just peachy. Are you. kidding me? You know what I mean?

>> time believing that. >> Yeah, I I was the best ever in my mind. Just ask me. I don't know. Um yeah, I. was. Wherever I lost my smile is when I. became an and I was an. for years, you know what I mean? I tell. people all the time I lived at rock. bottom for years, you know what I mean? I thought it was my normal. Uh yeah, it's so uh I would say like uh. I was an for years. I was. And.

but you know, I mean think of this You. know, what I I I think what happens is. you always want to do right. and then happens, maybe right, maybe wrong. I don't know. No one's got. bad intent. gets up, right? But the army will convince you that you. were the bad guy here. And you know what? Sometimes that's not. true. >> Right. And. >> Sometimes like sometimes you are the bad. guy. So I was an for years. Um.

you know, I drank. I hated my life. Loved war. Hated coming home. Pretty simple. If they would have just. left me in Baghdad, I'd have been fine. the whole time. >> Oh, So. >> I didn't want to come home like. >> At that time were you married with kids. or no? >> Yeah. Yeah. I had little kids. I was. married, about divorced. My personal life was a show. So I. just engulfed myself in work. >> How'd you manage that look? How did you. manage the scene for you forget about. the wife, the kids. How did you manage. the relationship with the kids?

>> What you mean war? >> No, no. Like while you're. >> You mean war? >> Yeah. >> How did I manage my relationship with. war? I just stayed there. >> Missing the kids. Was there any like did. you. in your mind like was there thoughts of. your own kids? >> mind. if I don't go to war today, we're not. going to win this war. What else matters to me right now? Anyone else going to do this? Anyone. else raising their hand to do this?

So, the guys that raised their hands are. very few. We're busy. >> You ever seen a movie A Few Good Men? >> Uh is that that lawyer movie? You. ordered the code red. Yeah. >> Have you seen it? >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. Long time ago. >> Good. Well, do you do you remember like. he's saying you don't know what this. life is like. You go around to an office. and all this other stuff. You don't know. what men like me do and da da da the. speech. I'm not going to get into the. speech. Do you agree with him? Like there are. certain things that the average. >> I mean at times, I mean.

you know. >> I'm not talking about the code red part. I'm talking about like. >> Yeah, for sure. Look. I look at everything as right and wrong. There's always a right thing to do. You. know what I mean? Try to do that. You know, and then I would also say this. is in beginning of war, I wanted to kill. everybody. Let's just kill them all. Get it over with. >> How old were you at that time? That you. wanted to kill everybody. 26, 27? >> Yeah, let's see. 2001, I'd have been 31. >> 31? >> 30, 31. >> And you just want to kill everybody.

>> Everybody. >> So, your. >> Let's not even play games. >> Your eyes go two different places. >> Yeah. >> One eye you have is just a fun guy. chill. One eye you go to like you're. locked in. Right? The level of intensity. I can see it sitting in front of you. >> Yeah. >> Was it the level of intensity 24/7 with. you when you were at 31 at that phase. the first time? >> for sure. Always level 10. >> How much were you drinking at that time? Like. >> Oh, a man. Yeah, I drank about two. bottles of Crown a night and then.

>> A night? >> Yeah. And then I go hit the strip clubs. >> Every [laughter] night? >> Uh, yeah. Most nights, yeah. >> In in in in in Baghdad? >> Oh, no, when I was home. >> Oh, when you were home? >> Yeah. >> And this is you're living with your. wife, but you're going and hitting the. >> Uh, yeah, I was kind of divorced and. single then, yeah. >> Got it. >> Yeah. >> So two bottles of Crown a night and. you're hitting the strip club. >> Yeah. >> And then you're at the. >> I did a few Ambien, too. >> [laughter]. >> Yeah. >> And then you're coming to the to to do. cardio at 6:00 a.m.

>> Uh, generally I'd like Well, I sometimes. I'd I'd I'd drink a bottle, take my. Ambien, and then I just wake up at the. strip club, and then it'd be time for me. to go in and do cardio. I quit drinking. for a little bit, and my god, the guys. who work for me were like, "We need you. going back to drinking because morning. fitness is worse when you're sober.". I was like, "Yeah, tough shit.". But, >> [laughter]. >> you know what I mean? But, uh, yeah, I used to drink a lot.

Um, when I was deployed, you know, I. didn't drink as much. I'd probably only. drink like. I don't know. Maybe a half a bottle a night. Maybe not every night. Cuz like I was the guy to go out alone, so I'd go get all the booze for. everybody. I just go down to the Christian. district, buy cases of booze, bring it. back to the house. Right, rule number one, not supposed to. drink. Dumbest rule ever. Someone's got. to blow off steam in here, otherwise.

you end up having trouble down the line. >> Oh, yeah. >> more. >> Well, I mean, if you got I mean, think. about it. If if you just if if there's a. major battle, the army had a major Think. about this, like a hundred years ago, they'd have a major battle. Right? After the battle, they're all. going to get hammered, high five, talk. about their stories with each other. This is called therapy in my book. And. then and then the next day they move on. Like the army allows for no venting. You. can't tell someone you're burned out.

You can't tell someone you I the army. accounts for none of that. They don't. care about you. Keep your mouth shut, do your job. >> Okay, so while you're out there, what. are you doing with girls? I mean, if. you're Were there Were there any girls. or you finding nothing, right? So. >> Who cares? No. No girls. Who needs. girls? It's ridiculous. There's a war. going on. You could kill people today. You're. worried about girls? >> You know, but you're drinking. If you're. drinking, like guys get you get drunk or.

trying to find a girl. Were guys trying. to go find girls or no? >> Overseas? >> Yeah. >> No. I don't. What Why would you want one of those. girls? That doesn't even make sense to me. >> Tell me why. I mean, guys would go to anywhere and. they would want to get a girl. >> Dirty? Besides, they need shoes. Like. [laughter]. I mean, that's just a couple factors off. the top. Not that I'm a germophobe, but. like. you know, that's the first thing, you. know what I mean? And then look,

I always felt like it was surreal. Like. we'd go with these towns, like. Afghanistan or Iraq. It was surreal. We. don't live like this. We don't We don't. live nothing like this. So it was It was. always so surreal. I kind of almost. I don't know. It's like. almost was like it's. some type of narrative play, you know. what I mean? Like. It was surreal. Like whatever that. Whatever happens to these people has. nothing to do with my life, who I am,

you know, my family, my. You know what I mean? So it was like. surreal to me at all a lot of times, like I was just indifferent, maybe. >> Yeah, to to to stay in that state, you. know, 31 years old, specifically that. John, where you're like you were an. and all this stuff. What was it working. with you? Like are you. hard charging throughout the day and. then chill at night? Is it like two. personalities? Is it three. personalities? Who am I dealing with? >> I don't think there's any chill, you. know what I mean?

>> 24/7? >> Yeah, I don't think I could chill at. all. Matter of fact, I didn't sleep either. I'd probably sleep like 4 hours, 3 hours a day. Why sleep? More time for drinking, you. know what I mean? >> You're not joking. You're actually being. dead serious, right? >> used to do this all the time. All the. time. I tell people this all the time. I mean, I should get that Crown Royal. >> [laughter]. >> Yeah, today's sponsored, brought to you. by. >> hey, and if they sponsored me, >> That'd be such a fun. >> need like a 10-year contract to get my.

money back out of them, you know what I. mean? >> Do you still drink today or no? >> Uh I do drink, man. Uh I stopped. drinking for a while. Um years I stopped. drinking, and I didn't do no alcohol, and then like here's where I see it, booze wasn't my problem. So, like I like socially to have a. drink, you know what I mean? But like. when I'm at home or anything, I don't. really drink that much. But if I go out, where socially we go get lunch, I'd love. to like get done with jujitsu, I call it. stink and drink, and like go get some.

lunch and have a cocktail right after. jujitsu with nothing in my stomach. You know what I mean? So, I love the. stink and drink. >> Right afterwards? >> Yeah. Yeah, stink and drink, I love it. >> Stink and drinking. So so going back to uh. um. if I came to your unit and I'm working. with you, your unit, you're my guy. What's your expectation from me every. day? How are you treating me? >> Oh man, >> I'm on your guys. >> Yeah, first off, you're going to get. treated the best you've been treated. Like I don't believe in stupidity and.

leadership. I don't believe in bad. timing. I don't believe in emergencies. Like, let's just kind of smooth out the. playing field and we got to do what we. got to do when we got to do it. That simple. I I don't with nobody. I ain't. micromanaging you. Now, if you're a performer, the more you. perform for me, the more slack I'll give. you. And what does performance mean? Performance. kind of works this way. Uh credibility equals freedom to.

maneuver. That's what guys used to say. >> Credibility equals. >> freedom to maneuver. >> Got it. So, if I'm if I'm doing a good. job for you, I have a little bit more. flexibility. >> Yeah. Yeah. You could be late. You could miss. a day of work. All you have to do is. tell me, "Yeah, go do your Get out. of here.". However, you habitually show up, like, I. will have some solutions for you that. are going to be cruel and unusual to. you. The army says if it looks stupid.

and it works, it's not stupid. You know. what I mean? But, like, uh yeah, a guy. couldn't pull a pin on a fast rope and. he blamed it on the glove his gloves and. made him wear his gloves like 9:00 to. 5:00 for a week. I don't care if you got to pick your. nose, wipe your butt. These gloves will never be a problem for. you again. And they weren't. You know what I mean? >> It did uh I I I read a story about Tim. Kennedy. If you want to play this clip. here, Tim is telling the story about who.

you were. I don't know if you've seen. this or not. Uh go for it. >> John McFee, former Delta Force operator, amazing war fighter, a storied career at. the unit. He was my boss. John was a. force. [music] He's one of those guys in. Garrison. He is not a fun human to work. for. He's definitely not one that you. want as your personal [music] mentor. about how to be a good human, but you. put John McFee in a case in glass that. says break case of war violence, [music]. and you break that, he is one of the. greatest war fighters to like walk on G.

lot. We were a hammer in that first. deployment. John. >> You've never seen that? >> Uh I think I seen some of it, but I. never seen this clip before. Um I told you I was an Oh, you. know what I mean? Uh and then yeah, and then I was good at. my job. I you know, like look, my. I came from like kind of up. childhood, you know what I mean? So like. not No one ever showed me how to have. good relationships, right? So. as soon as war started and my I would.

say this, if you had a good marriage, you're lucky. your marriage survives the war. I mean, cuz think about it. It's like going to. prison. You can call home, but you ain't going. anytime soon. You know what I mean? And. then think about what you're doing on. the other end, right? And guys say this. all the time, right? Like then they come. home and they got to sit at soccer games. and it's like, "Well, I didn't want to. do any of that. I just wanted to go back. to war.". You know what I mean? I'm not going to. sit here and lie and say like, "Oh, I'm. a great I was a great father. I went to.

those soccer games." No dude. wants to sit at those soccer games. Let's be honest, A, and then B, I just. wanted war. I was good at it. I could save lives. every day. When I would go out, I felt. like God less guys got hurt. Where else should I be? Who else needs me more? You know what I mean? And I think people. don't realize the focus that it takes, you know? And but I'm not the only one. to have that kind of focus. Look at. these CEOs of these big companies. Some.

of these, you know, I don't know, like. that's all they do, you know? And their. kids will say they weren't a great. father. You know what I mean? So I'm not going. to sit here and, you know, say I was a. great father and, you know, lacked the. responsibility of my focus, my thoughts, my everything was about war. And And I. wasn't there, who was? And if I'm not. there helping people, who's going to. help people? Right? And that's where my thoughts. were. >> Did Did Did everybody need to know how.

to fight? Was everybody fairly a. fighter? >> No. War requires bodies. I mean, we only. need a couple fighters. You know what I mean? And we need a. couple smart guys, and we need a couple. mechanically inclined guys, and we need. a couple, you know what I mean? I mean, this is a team sport. Truly is. >> Got it. So, it's not like like Tim. Kennedy was in the UFC at one point, you. know, he was fighting. There's stories. about he was going around telling. everybody I can beat you up. I can beat. you up. Is that a true story? >> Yeah.

Yeah. It didn't go well. >> What happened? >> Um yeah, he's like. I don't know. One night, um like one of. the helicopters got bumped, right? And. like, you know, we have packages, you. know, certain teams always ride on the. same helicopters. You build these. habitual relationships. So, the. helicopter pilot feels like he cares. about you enough to come get you in bad. situations. So, like we build these kind. of packages and like have these habitual. kind of you ride on this helicopter.

Helicopter goes down for the night. I. tell him to stay back. Right? And I was like, "Hey, get the gun. trucks ready. Just kind of in case we. need you, you're going to have to roll. in trucks and come save us, right?" And. but he wasn't the only one. There's a. bunch of. like his whole the whole helicopter, you. know what I mean? So, we lost like. however many guys riding in the. helicopter for the night, right? So, we. had to do do more with less on an. evening, right? So, he had to stay back. And then when I get back, you know, he's. kind of like kicking rocks. And he's. just a young kid, you know.

Um I would say this, at that point in my. career, I hadn't dealt with any like. younger kids in the army. To this point, I'd been surrounded by what we called. lifers. The guys are just "This is my. life. This is what I do. I'm good at it. You know what I mean? Uh and the lifers aren't really hip to. new guys, especially younger new guys, when you're more senior force. So, uh you know, I mean, I don't mind these. guys. He's a young kid, right? And uh.

like he's really mad about it. And I was. like, "Man, you want to kick my butt?". And he was like, "Yeah." And I was like, "Well, you meet me in the dojo tonight. at like whatever whenever we get done.". And he's like, "Okay.". And then, you know, so he comes in the. dojo And then what I did is like I knew. he would do this and I knew he would. accept the challenge. So, before I even. asked him, I was like, "Hey, who wants. to kick his ass?" And everyone raised. their hand. And I said, "Be in the dojo. this time.". >> Everyone literally wants to kick his. ass? >> Yeah, yeah. >> Cuz cuz why? He was being obnoxious?

>> Yeah, just kind of like kind of. >> [sighs]. >> I don't know. Just a little immature. then, you know what I mean? >> your ass. I'm tougher than all you guys. Like that kind of a mentality? >> Well, no. Just kind of like complaining. about having to stay back. Like, you. know, immaturity is really what we're. talking about. Uh so, uh he comes in the dojo and like. 15 people are standing in there. And I. said, "We're going to fight in order of. rank." And like he handled a few guys, like the first few guys, handled them successfully, you know what.

I mean? But the lesson [snorts] was you can't. beat us all and this is a team sport. >> What a great lesson. >> then by the time it got to me, I put him. in the sand and he's bleeding. And I. just whispered in his ear, "I hope we. don't got to have this talk again, you. know what I mean?" And then me and the. guys walked out and left him in there, you know what I mean? >> Was he the best fighter out of. everybody? Cuz I mean. >> Oh, for sure. By far. >> So, you guys. >> Yeah. >> So, he is better fighter than all the. guys in the room. >> Everybody.

But he's not better than 15 guys at. once. >> great lesson. >> Yeah. >> What a great lesson. >> Yeah, it makes sense. You need a team to. do something big in your life. >> For real. Can't do it alone. >> And then what happened? What was his. attitude afterwards? With everybody? Did. he also earn his respect from others? Or. you like. >> Uh. Yeah. Yeah. He He earned respect and he. got better after that and he's grown and. like I talked to him now. He's. He's great. Um but yeah, back then it. was like my thing was this is a team. sport.

You know what I mean? Not one of us can. do this alone. Not one of us. >> Yeah, he's [clears throat] a he's also. Was he also Delta? >> No, he was just uh I It's when I was in. uh 7th Special Forces. >> Oh, okay. So, he was Special Forces. He. wasn't Delta. >> 7th Yeah, we were in 7th Group. >> Would a personality like him ever been. uh selected into Delta? >> Yeah, maybe if he would have tried out, he could have been there, but. he didn't. So, we'll never know. And maybe he's not a 87.7, you know what.

I mean? I don't [laughter] know. We. don't know. I'm not a shrink, not a. doctor. >> But by the way, you know what when uh we. all woke up one day. This was I don't. know, sometime last year. Oh, you know, we we officially have Maduro and he's. going to New York and ta-da da-da da-da. Well, you US did this operation and they. went in and we heard about all these. different things and how they did it, right? >> Yeah. Uh. First off, way to go, boys. You know. what I mean? I couldn't be prouder. >> Literally. >> Oh, hell yeah. >> And was it your guy Was it Was it Was it.

Delta? >> Well, I don't know who it was, but. whoever it was, you know what I mean? Way to go, boys. This is the Super Bowl, you know what I mean? >> Yeah, because when I when I read this. stuff, it says Delta was involved. Two. Delta Force squadrons. >> Yeah. >> had been moved into the region ahead of. a raid. One of them in the Middle East, not the one in South America. Okay, and. they were flown in by the 160th Special. Operations Aviation Regiment, the. Nightstalkers. And of course, we we hear. the stories, but but. a project like this. that is that successful.

and then all of a sudden he's getting. all this oil and the deals and stuff. that he's doing. I'm talking about. Trump. Then you have Iran. The right thing you do. How different are those two missions for. somebody that spent a lot of time in the. Middle East? >> Oh, well, I would say this, one is in our. hemisphere and one is not. That's the way I look at it, right? Like. look, we should be working this hemisphere, we. should have we should be better friends. with everyone in South America, we.

should be better friends with Canada, we. all live on this side of the world, we. should all pull the rope together more. so than sending halfway around the. world, right? And then geographically. they got their own issues, so. uh I see it as a geographical. issue and a maybe a where to stand in. the world of helping your neighbors more. so than helping people that don't live. in your neighborhood. That's kind of the way I see it.

>> Okay, so. you know, let's just say somebody comes. in and a president comes in and say. we're shutting down all our military. bases outside of the Western Hemisphere, is that a good move? >> No. >> Why? >> Uh yeah, I don't know, you know what I. mean? I would say this, we should have. never gave up Balad in Iraq, we should. have never gave up Bagram in Afghanistan. cuz think about this, we would have a. major army base on both sides of Iran. right now.

>> But that's the mindset of an. >> And and I had to throw mines around it. and told the locals mess with us and we. will just you'll just get blown up. walking through the minefield. We won't. even have to shoot you. We save bullets, you know? Uh. and then just have these bases full at. all times. Why are we giving this. property back? We took it. Why are we giving it back? And think. about this, if we would have kept the. base in Iraq, you think ISIS would have. took it?

Think ISIS would have took Iraq if we. had a base there? You know what I mean? You think the. Taliban. would be. as adverse friends to us I cuz I know. we're friends now air quotes. But. you know, why couldn't we keep a base in. both one of these countries? We took. that ground and think about. strategically where we'd be now. I think we make a ton of mistakes. And I think our political cycle is way. too short for most of these guys to make.

good decisions which goes back to the. Saddam conversation of there was a. timeline on it cuz of politics. And we should be playing a much longer. game. >> It's it's not possible because. presidents change. You got eight years. max. Then typically we go like this and the. next guy that comes in is like a. complete different philosophy. >> Oh. >> You go back and forth. So. >> Correct. >> unfortunately that's. how the constitution's been created. >> Correct. >> We change that there's a lot of.

amendments that you need I don't know if. it's two-thirds or not but. >> Well, I don't think that needs to be. changed. I just think. someone should have a long-term strategy. and we should be following that somehow. We got all these smart people in. government yet we ain't making greater. decisions, you know? >> So are you are you in the mindset cuz. you're saying let's just focus on. Western Hemisphere? That was part of. your first you know, but then you're. like hey we should have had one on each. side of Iran, put mines and come mess. with us you're going to blow up we're. going to kill you it's done. So go ahead.

if you want to do anything, right? We. should have never given up the bases. okay. Would you consider yourself a. non-interventionist or. a person that protects the country and. we need to intervene at times? >> I'm a realist. And the. the truth is if the fight's going to. come to you you want to fight it in your. yard or someone else's yard? It's that simple. >> But the way they fight is different than. the way we fight. They'll come in you know, like the way. China fights is they'll send spies to. work in companies to get intel from us.

and you know, >> a different type of war, you know what I. mean? Now you're But this is another. long-term plan I don't feel we have a. good strategy on. You know, and China is a separate issue. from Iran, but I would tell you this. >> Stay on Iran. Let's stay on Iran. >> I would tell you I personally think and. like I'm not a I'm not a anybody. This. is just I'm not a doctor. This is just. my opinion. Iran's in the perfect place to get a. never-ending supply of guns and money.

from Russia and China. They got Saudi boxed in. Right? Always have. Which means the Israelis are boxed in. When we took out Saddam, we took out the. only opposition to Iran. So, uh having said that, right? It's it's. it's a it's a show. And until something changes, it'll. continue to be a show.

And then the culture, you know what I. mean? Come on, they've been charting, you know, saying death to America for. years. You know what I mean? That's generations. of hate. You know, and I hope these kids today. with the internet start to see that this. is all This is people playing. you for power. It's not about religion, it's about money and power. Don't don't. ever forget that, you know? It's not. about religion, it's about power. >> You know that's not going to change. That that depth hatred, animosity, you.

killed my dad, I'm going to seek. vengeance. When you're not paying. attention, I'm going to send my kids to. your country. They're true believers. When you're not looking, I'm going to. blow your up and kill everybody in. your family and I'm going to go to. heaven and meet my 72 virgins and meet. my That's That's the mindset. >> Yeah. >> You're going against that kind of an. ideology. >> Yeah. >> So, are you are you. are you in the school of thought with. Iran where if we don't do something to. them now long-term.

we going to. face severe consequences where they'll. do something to us or are you like, "No, leave them alone. Let them do their. thing. IRGC, whatever they got going. on.". >> Obviously, you can't leave them alone. cuz they got their fingers in a lot of. stuff. And that's the game they play. And if. that's the game they're playing, well, they want to play whack-a-mole, you might get hit on the head with the. hammer. You know what I'm saying? We Look, I don't know what the right answer is. I'm not a scholar, not an expert, but I.

would say this is it's uh. it's not going to end until you can. somehow cut off all the guns and money. that come to Iran, the support they get. from these other countries. Until then, it's on. You know what I mean? And they know it. Right? Because it's uh And then, you. know, the next thing is is like the. religious part of the world. You got the. Sunnis versus the Shia. You know? So, I don't know how to win. Iran. I don't know what the best answer.

is. Uh I would tell you I think one of. the things we should have done already. is look, two Russian guys in Adidas. tracksuits and a Range Rover are going. to drive in Iran with a bucket loader. and try to dig up that nuclear material. Why ain't we seized that. Let's get that off the playing field. So, it ain't, you know, 20 years from. now someone dug it up and they now have. the fuel. Now they just need rockets or something.

I would have secured any nuclear. material. as soon as possible. >> Doesn't sound like we succeeded the last. time when they said we shot all the. things down and, you know, be uh. you know, all the stories of Yeah, we. they're never going to have nuclear. weapons again, but we're back at it. again. So, probably that mission wasn't. a successful mission. >> I don't know. As long as that material's. out there, it's it's. it's for grabs, isn't it? I think. >> So, are you. >> Look, they can hate us all they want,

you all right? Fly your drones, shoot at. the navy ships, like. it's all nuisance stuff. That nuclear. material that's going to be a. problem if it don't get fixed now. >> At your peak at your peak, like I'm. talking about 31, 32, 33 years old, that. the John McAfee. If you had a team to go in there, what. what do you think you guys could. accomplish? >> We go get that nuclear material. >> You would get the nuclear material? >> I look, I I think the whole reason they.

hate us is cuz we've been around. there for years, right? Like. you know, uh if you read some older. books, game and nations, stuff like. that, like. we were messing around with Syria, all. them post World War II, and I think. we've kind of done it to ourselves. And that's why I'm a big fan of leaving. them alone. If it's not a problem. >> Even now? >> Yeah, leave them alone. >> Leave Leave Iran or you see alone? >> Well, okay, you mess with our ships,

shoot their ship down. Your plane flies. near our plane, shoot that plane down. Mess with it at all, it's going to cost. you. However, let them go. Seize the. nuclear material and let them go back to. doing whatever they're doing. >> But seizing nuclear material is a big. mission. >> Okay, how many people are in the army. right now with nothing to do? We're paying them right now, aren't we? >> put ground. troops on the ground. You're for that.

>> I'm for getting that nuclear material. If that means putting troops on the. ground to dig it up, to seize the. material, I say yes. >> think the president is afraid of doing. that because he promised no troops on. the ground? >> know what that guy does. I. I don't do politics. I could care less. >> But it's military though. This is this. is. >> Yeah, but this is decisions he has to. make and that's political. >> Got it. So it's. But if you But if you were there, you. would say, "Let's get that nuclear out.

and then leave them alone.". >> I mean, think about this. If they had no. fuel for this nuclear rocket and we. destroyed their whole program, what's our beef now? >> If you're claiming that Russia would. provide it to them, wouldn't Russia be. able to provide them whatever they want? >> I don't know. >> Even if you got them. It's like if if. you have Russia wants Iran to be. stronger because they're a good ally and. they're selling them the Chevy drones. and all that. >> Well, if if they were going to sell them. they'd have done it before now, I'm thinking.

And that hasn't happened. So whatever. stopped them before is stopping them. now. Here's the deal. That the material. is the problem. Right? Cuz you could build a rocket. Knowing I don't think anyone in the. world cares. You know, most governments. have rockets, right? I mean, I don't own. any. You own any rockets? But. most governments have rockets, right? So. that's not a big deal. The problem was. the nuclear thing. Okay, let's take that off the table. Now. what's our beef? The reality is we're we.

just going to fight indefinitely? I. mean, come on, man. Since I was a kid, we argue about the same Iran, the. border, health care, the VA. sucks. All these things have never. changed in our lifetime. We've never. fixed anything like. shouldn't we start to like maybe look at. these things and go, "How do we fix. them?". How do we fix this You know what I. mean? If the beef was the nuclear. material, well, then let's get that. If the beef's something else, well, then.

what is the beef? What are we going after? What's the goal. here? >> If Saddam would have stayed, you think they would have neutralized. the the IRGC? What do you think would. have happened if Saddam would have. stayed? >> I mean, I would have empowered Saddam. to. do whatever he wanted to do. >> Why is that? >> Cuz he kept them in check. As long as. they were fighting Saddam, they didn't. have the bodies, the manpower, the money. to to bring the fight around the world. like they have. They're now they're. unchecked. They can just do whatever.

they like. >> I I I lived in Iran when he was. attacking. and everybody in Iran was worried about. Saddam, especially after the Shah was. gone. He is like saw massive. opportunity. Khomeini does not a ruler. nation, let alone his military. He's not. a military leader. Let's go. And he was on uh offense mode for I. don't know how many years. Like. back-to-back-to-back. This is in the. middle of '80s. when this was taking place. And and you. said that Saddam had a lot of Christians. around him. Why why is that? What was. the story about him? >> Martyrs martyr stuff.

>> What do you mean? >> Uh well, as a Muslim, if I martyred. myself and you, I go to heaven. Christian kills himself and you, Christian goes to hell. Who's less. likely to kill you? A Christian. So, he was like his butler, his tailor, his If you touched him in any way, clothed him, fed him, those were all. Christians. >> Cuz he trusted Christians.

>> Yeah. And uh you know, during his time, there. was a massive Christian district. downtown Baghdad. They've always been there. >> I mean, Assyrians are old country, which. you know. >> Yeah. >> Um now, I doubt how many are left after. ISIS, but uh they probably didn't do. well then, but. >> Did you cuz you you said what? They they. you guys captured him 9 days after you. left the Iraq or something like that? >> Yeah, 9 days after I went home for. Christmas. The uh yeah, the other. squadron got him. >> Did you ever deal with Uday, his son, or.

no? >> Uh I only seen his body dead. >> You only saw his body dead? >> Mhm, the guys that uh. killed them brought I had to watch his. bodies in the hanger, him and uh Qusay. >> Were they as bad as the stories we read. about? >> real, they needed to die. >> I heard a story about. >> feel bad about them at all. Matter fact, the planet is way better without these. two. >> So, they were more brutal than their. father? >> For sure. >> How did that happen? >> Those they're psychopaths. They just you.

know, uh man, they would just snatch girls off. the street and like have them in the. perfume palace. Like I talked to a girl. that when the Americans like came in. Iraq, they freed her and she was like 18. She. had been there since she was like 12. >> Wow. >> You know what I mean? Uh, so they would just rape and murder. and whatever the they wanted. >> And is that because they felt empowered. by the dad? That they can get away with. anything?

>> I don't know what these psychos are. thinking. Don't be Don't be getting me. inside their head. These guys are. sickos. I don't know what they think, you know? >> about a story about in a Syrian wedding. in Iraq and the the wife, the bride was. the hottest girl in town. And so Uday. shows up with his crew to the wedding, shows his guns. He says, "I need to take. the bride for one night and you guys. will get her tomorrow.". The. groom, the husband jumps in. Boom, kills him right there at the. wedding, takes the girl. Next they. brought the girl back.

>> These are the types of stories you hear. about this guy. >> Yeah, that's what they did, man. Like I. don't I don't know what those guys. thought, but they were bad news. They're. bad news. The. Mhm, no one needs to be treating people. like that. You know what I mean? >> And Saddam wasn't like that? >> Um. I don't know. I don't think Saddam was. like. I would consider them like psychopaths. where I would consider. Saddam a dictator. You know, like he killed for control, I.

think. These guys sport and pleasure, you know what I mean? >> Did you ever see this. >> And I believe they were drug addicts. also. >> These guys? >> Yeah, like white powder, whether it's. meth or cocaine or whatever. >> It was a movie they made about him. I. don't know if you've seen the you. watched the movie about Uday. Can you. type in Uday Hussein movie? And it's. actually by by pretty legit actors. A. phenomenal movie I watched uh I don't. know how many years ago. Um go a little. bit lower to see Yeah, that's that one. right there. The Devil's Double. >> What a good name. >> Yeah, The Devil's Double. There's a. biography on him.

Yeah, the military commander Uday. Hussein and his body double. I. interviewed the double, by the way, like. 8 years ago, 7 years ago. Very. interesting story. >> to his body double? What did that guy. have to say? >> it was it was some like. um. >> I mean, I was sure that guy was scared. of him also, you know what I mean? >> Scared. >> Everybody's scared of this man. >> It was a. um. Yeah, it was a very uh interesting. conversation. What year is this? How. long ago was this? Uh. 5 years ago. Okay, 5 years ago. Talking.

to him and what role he had to play and. how it it would use him versus the other. one, but. um. Yeah, I mean, Uday those guys So, you. saw them by the time you saw their body, they were dead. They were already. killed. And your guys killed them? You're. A or B? >> A. >> A. >> [laughter]. >> Okay, so warfare. How much of warfare. changing do you sit there and like the. strategies for you guys would change? Everything right now you hear is drone, drone, drone. Ukraine is supposed to be. destroyed by Russia. And I know.

they got the best drones in order for a. couple thousand dollars. Iran, they got. these drones for a couple thousand. dollars. >> Yeah. >> Is it changing like dramatically? >> Yeah, I think warfare like I experienced. is going to be different in the future, for sure. >> Do you think Delta Force will still be. needed with the way they're doing it? Or. you guys will adjust? >> 100% yes. >> Tell me why. >> Um man, I mean, until you can do get robots that. can I mean, I think the goal with. warfare is robots, right? Like why lose.

people? We could We could then war. indefinitely, no one gets hurt, and we. could all make money on war, right? Cuz. war is a money-making business. I'm not. dumb. Um, so I think it's the way of the. future. But I always think there's going to be, you know, the need for a unit to be able to pull. stuff off that no one thinks is. possible. >> And so you guys would just simply adjust. with the weapons to use and and whatever. the Have you heard about these new.

dragon drones? >> No. >> Get this in about dragon drones. Watch. this. >> I love the sparks. >> So it just comes in. >> Yeah. This is genius. >> Maybe play the one I sent you, cuz the. other one gives a. uh, explains what it's capable of doing. and how different it is the ones. Russians make. versus I just texted it to you. You. should have it somewhere there. >> So dangerous, right? >> Did you guys have to deal with this back. in the days or not really? Yeah.

>> Man, we had them airplanes, they. crashed. No one could fly them, right? We crashed them all the time. Like, uh, we had kind of similar small stuff, but nothing like as effective as AR. today. Like nothing like this. This came after. my time. >> Hit the audio. >> dragon drones to ignite Russian. positions. Thermite burns at up to. 4,000°. Causing severe burns and. spreading fear among enemy troops. It. can penetrate 4 mm of armor in seconds. with each unit costing only $10.

Nighttime footage shows these drones. setting tree lines ablaze, a tactic. [music] used in regions like. Zaporizhzhia, Donetsk, and Kursk. Russia. has also developed similar drones, but. initial footage suggests theirs are less. effective. Ukrainian forces are. deploying thermite-equipped dragon. drones. >> I mean, this is some kind of cool kind. of right? >> I'm telling you. >> Do you look at this and say this is cool. Are you like. >> Hell yeah, it's cool as. >> Really? >> Hell yeah. >> [laughter]. >> The average person may look at this and. say dude, war- warfare is changing. >> Well, okay.

I think the Russians are still fighting. at World War II style war in the sense. that they don't give a if they lose. 20 million people. And I think that's how they think. So, I think their warfare is different. than the way we see warfare. You know, we're very objective focused where, you. know, we take this, we take that, right? We're moving, we're on the move, right? Uh I think the Russians are are, you. know, Stalingrad. If you take all the. World War II examples, they're they're.

their kind of military doctrine is throw. bodies at the problem. Lots of bodies. >> Yeah, it's like he doesn't care right. now. He even said all the rules are are. uh. I think Zelenskyy said yesterday or 2. days ago that the way Putin's leading. all the rules in war are off uh. off the books now. Do whatever you want. to do. They just surrendered 250 Russian. soldiers just surrendered and said a. bunch of things and how do you think. this one's going to end? Obviously, this. is very different than Iran. How do you.

think this is going to end? >> [sighs]. >> Uh well, Putin's probably, honestly, like look, ever since they found, what is it, 15. trillion dollars of oil and gas under. Ukraine, they went from zero on the oil. charts to fourth in the world in. potential. I think he wants to carve off. a slice of that for Russia and he needs. like warm water ports and and he needs. pipelines and And if he had the. Donbass, he would have a.

some of that, right? So, I think he's. looking for a negotiation to carve out, you know, a couple trillion dollars off. the top for himself. >> For himself? >> Well, for Russia, whatever. You know. what I mean? You know what all goes to. his pocket. I mean, that's why he's the. richest man in Europe now, him and. Zelenskyy, right? Two richest guys in. Europe. >> You hear people saying that, but who. knows if it's true or not. Who do you trust more? You trust him or. you trust Zelenskyy more? >> Man, I don't trust either one of them.

It's a fool's game trusting these dudes. Are you kidding me? You know what I mean? I mean, I'm not. saying we shouldn't have allies and be. good to people, but like. >> Doing it with them. >> I'm saying trust, but verify. Always, you know what I mean? Period, end of discussion. >> [clears throat and cough]. >> Yeah, it'll be it'll be interesting on. what what happens. uh you know, with these guys and how it. ends up ending between the two because. the days of Do you think like in the.

next 5, 10, 15, 20 years. possibility of maybe even the next 6 to. 12 months, any possibilities of somebody. using a nuclear warhead? >> I think that's always a possibility. >> about like the way that it happened. like, you know, Truman eventually called. the shots and. we did what we did. Do you think the tensions are at a level. right now where Putin may sit there and. say, "You guys want to play this? No problem. NATO wants to expand to the. east? You guys didn't keep your promises? I'm. going to show you what I got." You think.

it'll get to that point in our lifetime? >> Not with Putin. Putin's smarter than that. That's a. no-win. That's a no-sum [clears throat]. game. That's not how to get. That's not how to get, you know, half of. $15 trillion. That's how you get zero. of that money, right? So, I don't think. Putin would do that, but I do believe. any one of these rogue states uh. warring anywhere in the Middle East. would love to detonate a nuke anywhere. they could.

You know what I mean? So, I think it's a. very Look, I I think the world. I think the world now is crazier than. the world in the '70s, in the '80s, in. the '90s. Like, there's so much going on. these days and it's going so fast. because of the internet truth, you know, all of it. So, I think the next 5 years. are going to look very different, you. know? I would say this is like, look, I also think we need to have good.

friends in this world. You know what I. mean? Like, good friends. And we have. the biggest economy in the world. It's. the biggest weapon this world's ever. seen. Let's pay the people that like us to do. nice for us. And let's have friends. and the people that don't like us, don't. give them no money and ignore. them. End of discussion. Right? But, we keep giving everybody. money and we know you give Iran money, where's that money going? It's not going to the people. They're.

not buying, you know, blankets for. babies. They're going to buy weapons and. they're going to go to China and get. more AKs so they can get them in the. Yemen because they're trying to box the. Saudis from every angle, right? So, it's. a never-ending and it's a geography. problem, I think. >> Second Amendment is. coming up lately where guys are saying, you know, originally when the Founding Fathers. came up with the Second Amendment was. for you to be able to defend yourself. against a tyrannical government, right?

>> Yeah. >> You're not going to do today with. an M-16, you know, against the. government that if they become. tyrannical, right? Do you agree that maybe we need to. extend the Second Amendment? Some people. want to take away your guns. Some people. want to take away anything you got. >> Yeah. >> Some are saying maybe civilians need to. be able to have a little bit more than. just. M-16s and, you know, good weapons. Where. do you stand with that? >> It's America, freedom of choice. It. should all be legal. >> Even if I want to have bombs and nuclear. or any of that. >> Well, maybe not nukes, you know what I. mean? Or maybe.

maybe you need to give like fingerprints. and like a background check for the. nuke. I don't know, but I think look, this is America. Everything should be. legal. I don't think anything should be. illegal. We're going into the future. This is freedom of choice. You know what. I mean? Uh I don't think anything should be. illegal. And I think the government should be. traditionally in the business of like. doing stuff like this to make money more. so than whatever the. the taxes, you know what I mean?

>> Have you seen what this guy Palmer Lucky. is doing with drones? Are you following. that or no? >> No. >> Palmer Lucky is is a billionaire who all. of a sudden got into it said Andrew. uh uh. you know, $2.9 billion. Navy submarine shipyard contract. days after. Lucky Palmer Lucky joins Pentagon weapon. group. So, he's creating a company. that's building weapons now. >> Oh, is this the guy that's got like this. helmet that can see dudes in the next. room? Yo, I want that. >> I think this is the guy. And you pull.

that. >> Palmer Lucky, send send me one of these. >> [laughter]. >> Yo, I need this. I've heard of this. thing, but I didn't know who he was. >> Yeah, so some of the stuff that he's. doing, if you uh. uh. the one Andrew specifically put the. uh. Go go up a little bit. Go up a little. bit and see if it's that one. Go up one. more. Is this the one or is it the design that. says No, no, that was not it, but he.

>> Yeah, it's like Eagle Vision or. something, right? I forget what it was. called. Yeah, this helmet. >> Eagle uh. uh. Eagle Eye helmet. >> Eagle Eye helmet. I need this Eagle Eye. helmet. >> You're going to notice a drone picks up. a guy behind that container over there. And what's going to happen is when he. walks behind that container, I'm able to. continue to see where he is.

and what he's doing. So, here's Ghost X. is the drone that's watching. So, just. watch for a moment. So, the blue force. is my friendlies. So, see that little thing right hand. corner where it sees behind the. containers? >> Uh-huh. >> They're tracking where the bad guy is. They're tracking where my guys are. And. then watch when they go behind the. container. So, I can actually see through it and. watch. Now, they're engaging the guy. over there and he's down. So, um. this is a system that allows everybody. to basically be operating as one.

>> this guy? Can you help me out with the. >> You really You really want to. >> Hell, yeah. I got. >> Yeah, of course. We. >> I'd be wearing this around the. neighborhood walking my dog. You know. what I [laughter] mean? Like, come and. get me. >> If you had this in while you were out. there, how different would it have been. for you guys? >> Oh, you know how great it would be if. like. you put on like your night vision for. lack of a better term or whatever it is, and like you see like bodies, where. people are, even through buildings or. behind dumpsters or whatever, right? And.

but think about this, what if all 10. guys have the same view? Like, this is incredible. This is like. Star Wars in my book. >> And I feel like this is. competitive advantage at the highest. level against your enemy. >> Well, you know, okay. You're in the. army, right? I tell people this all the. time. You know what an op order is? >> No. >> Organized cheating. >> [laughter]. >> Right? So, when guys used to say, "You. gamed the out of this." You know. how guys be like, "You gamed it." That's.

the way you did this, you gamed it. Like, an op order is organized cheating. I.e. gaming. Like, it's the way the army. does best. Get used to it. You know, it's the way of the world. >> Yeah, I mean, this guy. this 34-year-old entrepreneur. billionaire who came up with the product. Oculus is now using the Oculus VR is now. using this to create military weapons. for the US government. >> Love it. >> And you this is going to be one of the. biggest players. So, if you see him. right, that's a bad picture. Wikipedia. could have chosen a better picture for. him than that one. >> Yeah.

>> Um. >> For sure. >> For sure. Can somebody update that. picture? >> Yeah. >> Uh. but uh yeah, if he's watching, you know, >> Yeah. >> that that let's uh let's get one of. those um one of those goggles for you. Uh last but not least today with you, you know, you have kids, you have. family. Are you in touch? Do you have a. relationship? So, >> Yeah. >> how did that happen? How did that. relationship with dad was doing that and. now it's good? How did how did you do. that? >> Um man, it just takes time, you know? I. mean, it's not as great as I'd like it. to be, but maybe one day, you know,

we'll be we'll be good, you know? Um it. is what it is. I'm I'm re. I'm always positive. I always try to be. positive. If if I if you call me, I'm. going to be positive. You know what I. mean? So, it's like uh. uh the way I see my children is lead by. example, you know what I mean? And but. this is the way I see life in general is. like, you know, the. kind of you know, living a better life.

is, you know, the best thing you can do, right? Cuz people all the time like your. enemies, right? They really want you. know, we want revenge, we want this. >> [snorts]. >> Cool. I'm living a better life, you know. what I mean? I just flew here from. Tuscany, you know what I mean? I had the. best time of my life. So, it's like I'm. living the better life. You can be mad. at me for it. And then since I've been. living a better life and people see. that, uh you know, a lot of people, you.

know, I'm positive. They want to talk to me, you know? I'm. we'll have fun, you know? So, when it. comes to my kids, like they know I'm. here for them. They call me, you know? I. get them cute pics from them, you know. what I mean? I'm happy. But they're also. of the age where they're adults and like. they're in the middle of their lives. You know what I'm saying? >> Are you a grandpa yet or not? >> Yeah, I'm a grandpa. Yeah, I got two. grandkids. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Cute. That's why I say I get. to have cute pics, you know what I mean? >> Yeah, that's cool.

That's a. It's interesting going through the. process. You know, we have one of the. guys out there, you met him, you spoke. to him. Um tatted guy on the neck. He. one time one of his daughters, she was. 16 or 17, she's like, "Look, don't call me again if you're going to. get deployed again.". And he was like, "Shit." You know, he's. always out there, right? Don't call me. again cuz if we have to go through again. of you know. as a kid worried about. >> [clears throat]. >> what to do and all this stuff. If somebody if when somebody would get.

into Delta and let's just say the guy. wasn't married, would you encourage. marriage or would you tell him to put it. off until he's done with Delta? What was. your position on that? It really doesn't matter. That's what. they'll tell you. Most guys are married, right? You go through a divorce, they do. not like that. cuz that could get messy and that's a. reflection on them, right? But. I would tell a guy don't get married. I would tell most kids these days don't. get married.

You know what I mean? >> In the military? >> Any kid. >> Any kid? >> Any kid. >> Seriously? >> Yeah, tell me why. Um. you know, for a man, what are the. benefits? You know, someone's going to take half. half of nothing and whatever you got. later, like. it's ridiculous. >> Have a solid pre-nup in place. >> There you go. >> So with a pre-nup you would do it? >> No. >> You still wouldn't do it? >> No, it's a waste of time. There's no there's no reason today in my.

book to get married for anyone. It's just where the world is. You know, cuz you live together, they're. still going to take half your. You know what I mean? And the way I see. anything in life is. I choose to be here. I choose to stand. next to the people I want to stand next. to, right? And I'm ride or die. Like I. will stand next to you, you know. I think you know people say they're ride. or die. Like.

I've had people tell it to me and I was. like not happy to hear it from people. because on the ride or die spectrum I've. chose death a couple times. You know. what I mean? So I know what ride or die. means and I know people say it and don't. mean it. Right? So. um. I would tell people marriage what for? What for? You know what I mean? Or wait till. you're older. Wait till you're. you know, like. No one really understands the level of.

focus. Like and I'm not the only one. I. mean I'm not I'm not the only one but. guys like me, the level of focus. I mean. imagine you find that one thing you're. good at. And you think lives are based off of you. being at work or not. We're playing a. game of life or death here. This ain't. like I have to pay the IRS more money or. any whatever, right? This is life or. death. And when it comes to that game, like.

you know, I would say. once you've played that game, everything. else is kind of We don't have. to take it so seriously, right? And. having said that, there's there's no. advantage in these situations to being. married for a younger guy who's so. focused and and so ingrained and. believes so much in what he does. Go do that. Don't distract yourself with. something else. You know what I mean?

Stay focused. Do your. >> You're 54 years old right now. If when. you. >> 56. >> 56, I'm sorry. 56 years old right now. What's your greatest accomplishment? >> Me? >> Yeah. What do you think? >> Man, I just came from Tuscany. I keep. saying this. It was bucket list, man. I. had the best time, yeah. I stayed at. this villa. Uh it was the papal hunting grounds for. hundreds of years. Napoleon rode his. horse from one end of the property to. the other. Uh it was just absolutely incredible.

So, man, uh. I've been just trying to check off this. bucket list little by little every day, you know, like don't wait till the end. of your life. Pro tip, don't wait till. the end of the life for the bucket list. Do it now while you got a chance, you. know? So, I'm bucket listing. yearly, man. I I tell you I tell people. I live on bonus points, you know, but. it's a it's a choice I made years ago to. either smile and have a good day or I. can frown and be an.

>> You're still young, you're 56 is young. >> I know, man. I can't wait. >> 56 is a lot of living still. A lot of. living to do. >> You know that I got to become a world. champion in this jiu-jitsu, you know? >> Is that really your goal? >> Yeah. Yeah, I've been trying for years, you know what I mean? I ain't got there. yet. Well, last year I got disqualified. cuz I'm too bad for jiu-jitsu. But uh. this year maybe I win, maybe I won't, you know what I mean? >> You got disqualified last year? >> Yeah. >> What did you do? >> Uh pretty much nothing, but like. >> [laughter]. >> the guy like rolled over. He soccer.

faked it. He was like, "Oh, my back.". And then I'm like, "Well, this guy's. injured. I'm moving on, you know? Like. I'm healthy." And like I got. disqualified. But uh this year maybe I get it, you. know? But it's the journey for me, you. know, the I love jiu-jitsu. I love. I say this all the time. I think guys forget about things they. love and they focus on reliving their. pain. Right? Like there's a time in your life.

where you were a low point and this song. meant something to you, right? Don't. listen to that song anymore and. remind yourself of the low point. Find. new songs. Find a new high point. Don't. relive your pain. And I'm not a reliving. my pain guy. I'm moving on, right? So, uh. kids, you know, you could play peekaboo. with a kid 200 times and they think it's. funny every time. Right? Are we so different than kids. that there is stuff that'll make us. laugh over and over?

Cuz whatever that is, find it and go do. it. Jiu-Jitsu makes me happy. I do it. all the time. I hunt. I do Jiu-Jitsu. I. do bucket list stuff. I was just at this. villa, you know what I mean? Uh so, there's. so much good, you know what I mean? That. uh like I'm just I tell people I'm. living so much good. I'm living on bonus. points. >> Are you Are you a. How do you make money right now? Is it. just a retirement, the pension that. comes in? >> Uh I get army retirement uh and I teach. people to shoot. >> Oh, that's right. That was in that. documentary where you were listening to.

the heavy metal uh. >> Oh. >> song in the car and. >> I made that heavy metal song on an app, you know what I mean? I made a whole. workout with death and destruction. I. listen to it when I work out. >> Seriously? >> Yeah, I made my Yeah. >> It's Yeah, I mean, it's not. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's called Green Eyed. Devils. It's killer. [laughter]. >> Yeah, you were singing along. You knew. the lyrics, all of it. >> I'm I'm I had uh AI make it for me. >> sense. Yeah, that makes. >> Yeah. So, I made a Okay, I made a I made. a ton of songs. Uh I think this is. pretty cool. Cuz like, okay, all things.

being equal, these songs are almost as. good as anything I grew up on the radio. with. But, it's the words I like, you. know? Like, you know, like helicopters. coming in, snipers, night vision, guns. >> Is that Like, you're literally making. your own playlist? >> Yeah. That's Like, it's not like, "Hey, this is my playlist." No, this is your. playlist. Yeah, I think there's like 17. metal songs. It's an app called Suno, I. >> No, no, >> know. Trust me. Like, we were one time. in a car and my dad was freaking out. Vinnie uh makes a song and my 5-year-old.

uh he writes the song. He says, "Bro-. Brooklyn, it's like, "Oh my god.". >> Hey, can you. search green eyed devils? Maybe it'll. pop up. >> on YouTube or no? >> No, I don't think It's just on this app. I just kind of I tell people to go to my. thing on the app and listen to it if. they want. But. >> Did you upload it on YouTube or no? Maybe you need to do that. >> I don't know. Maybe. But uh yeah, I made all my own songs, right? Let's see if I can find it.

I'm like John Shrek McFee on Suno. Oh, that's it. Wait. That's it. >> I found it. So, let me send it to you. That's sick. If you go on YouTube and you type in. green eyed devil, you'll find it. >> Yeah. But uh yeah, and there's a whole. playlist of like I call it death and. destruction, but it's like workout. music. Like, you know, like kind of like. '90s metal-ish, you know, 2000s metal.

>> Play the No, no. Top left. It's a short. Yeah, there you go. >> [music]. >> That's the best part. Yeah, that's my jam. Uh. I love this song. >> The enemy called you guys green eyed. devils. >> Yeah. [music] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, that's the best part. >> you green eyed devils. >> Yeah, the bad guys call us green eyed. devils cuz like when you got your night. vision on, you see the green glow on the.

face. So, the uh. >> So, the song is called green eyed. devils. >> Yeah, green eyed devils. >> cool. That is so cool. And so, >> [clears throat]. >> do you do anything? Do you write? Are. you Do people follow your Substack? Is. there a podcast? Are you doing anything. or nothing right now? >> Um man, I mean, no, not doing nothing. right now. >> Any plans? >> I I wrote a book. uh a while ago. It's at a finishing. editor right now. But I wrote a book. It's a fiction book. It's about It's.

kind of about my first deployment of how. I went out alone and stuff like that. I made it a fiction book. And. it's kind of got like a subplot, but I. wanted to write a fiction book about. every deployment with like a. a bigger so what to it. You know what I. mean? But I would like to write some. books maybe, but. >> Due to the amount of stories that you. have where you can turn into all the. stories. >> Well, I've had book meetings with a lot. of these book guys. I had I think 37.

total. And like. I didn't find anybody I wanted to talk. to. You know what I mean? >> you to somebody. >> Okay. >> I'll introduce you to a guy. Talk to. him. He's a. business guy, very successful, probably. worth 50 million, and he knows everybody. in Hollywood agency and I think you're. going to like the guy. And you know, he. knows all the agents and all that stuff, all the managers, all the publishers, and see where it takes you. And he's the. kind of guy you would like talking to. >> Yeah, let's do that. >> Yeah, I'm introducing him to you. Brother, this was amazing. Really.

enjoyed it. >> Yeah. >> And for the audience watching this, >> [clears throat]. >> stay tuned because I think there's going. to be more stuff coming out with uh. John here. But your story's fascinating. This was amazing. >> Thank you. >> Yes. Thank you, everybody. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. >> Handcrafted [music] across five Italian. factories. With builder technology underfoot, it may be [music] the most comfortable.

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