Why Young Men Are Struggling Right Now with Oprah & Scott Galloway

Just to be raw about this, would you. have sex with you? Can't believe I just said that on Oprah. >> Yeah. [Music]. Hi everybody. Thanks for joining me here. on the Oprah podcast. I am just. delighted to be on the road in New York. City with this fantastic audience. Thank. you so much. If you're watching us on. YouTube, you'll notice that we have more. men than usual in our audience. That's.

because we invited them here because. we're talking about the alarming. statistics that show that many men, especially young men, are not okay. And. actually, in what some people believe is. a dire crisis. Before I introduce my. guest today, uh I want to just hear from. some of you here. So, what's on your. mind? What's your reaction to all of the. headlines? You all have been seeing the. headlines yourselves. And how is that.

impacting or reflecting on your life? So, Max, what do you want to say? First. off, thank you both so much. You know, I. think this is such an important. conversation. I'm 23. I'm a senior at. NYU. And I think I am speaking for all. of my friends when I say that we feel. lonely. You know, young men, anger is. really the only societally acceptable. emotion that we can express. We're. confused. And we kind of need a voice in. this wilderness. And and you are that.

And that's why this conversation is so. important. So, >> Wow. Do you Do you Do Can I just ask you. this, Max? Do your friends say that to. each other? Or how is that expressed? This is something that we text each. other late at night. You know, this is. not something we talk about out in the. open. These are conversations that we. have, you know, over the safety of a. digital wall. And this is something that. is really hard for us to talk to each. other about face-to-face out in the. open. And what are you all actually.

saying? Because the the use of the word. lonely, I mean, I've never heard, you. know, young men say, "I am lonely." So, are people texting each other saying, "I'm lonely" or are they saying what? I mean, you've mentioned that it took. you forever to cry. You know, I I. remember the last time one of my male. friends texted me, "I just cried for the. first time in years." And it's out of. It's out of desperation. Yes, it's I'm. lonely. It's I don't know what I'm doing. with my life. >> Huh. It's It's desperation. Okay. Thank. you so much. Alfer.

Hello. Hi. I think something that really. is something that I would focus on. pertaining to this issue is a need for. role models um and within our. communities. I grew up in. Bedford-Stuyvesant, Brooklyn. And uh. there was an absence at the time of role. models um within my neighborhood. Um of. course, I grew up uh in a single-parent. household, but I did have a relationship. with my father. But. extended role models to look to and to.

glean from, this it was a dig. It was a. dig. And you speak a lot about it, uh. you know, because sometimes it's really, really hard to see what you can't go a. certain place if you don't see it. And. you want to see. You want to be able to. see where you can go. So, I think role. models are uh is a really important part. of growing up and doing well and finding. your place in the community. Thanks, Alfer. Well, my guest that you're. referring to has been sounding the alarm.

about young men in America. As a father. of two sons, he speaks. And he says he. grapples with his this thought, "How do. I figure out a way to raise confident, decent young men?" And I'm sure a lot of. you've had that thought for yourselves. That question became the guiding force. for his newest book. And let me tell. you, it's a an amazingly. really profound, thoughtful book. And if. you are a man, you're going to want to. read it. And if you're a woman, you want.

to send it to every man you know. It's. called Notes on Being a Man. Fantastic. title, by the way. >> Thank you. Welcome, entrepreneur, best-selling author, NYU professor, and. podcaster extraordinaire, Scott. Galloway. Scott. Thank you. Thank you. You say that what's happening to men is. a five-alarm. fire for men in the United States. Tell. us what's going on, as you see it.

>> Well, the statistics are pretty stark. If you walk into a morgue and there's. five people who died by suicide, four. are men. Uh three times as likely We don't I. mean, we have a homeless problem and an. opiate problem, but what we really have. is a male homeless and a male opiate. problem. Three times as likely to be. addicted, three times as likely to be. homeless, 12 times as likely to be. incarcerated. More single women own. homes than single men. And women in. urban areas are making more money. And. let me be clear, we should do nothing to. get in the way of that. But if we don't have If our young men.

continue to flail, our country and women. aren't going to continue to flourish. And just a couple of things you brought. up, loneliness and then role models. One out of four men can't name a best. friend. One out of seven men. uh don't have a single friend. And what. I would say is there's a lot of factors. around this, but something to be. cognizant of is that. >> stop you for a second? Is that unusual? Is that new? It's getting worse. And typically, when. a man isn't in. Women are relationally more invested or.

more talented establishing. relationships. And typically, they use. their friends as a means of gaining. confidence to enter into a romantic. relationship. Whereas a man, if he. doesn't have a relationship by the time. he's 30, there's a one in three chance he'll be a. substance abuser. And also, there's a. cartoon Oprah of the poor woman in her. 30s that didn't find romantic love. And. she's in a big sweater looking out on a. rainy day listening to sad music. What a. tragedy.

That's a cartoon. The reality is men. need relationships much more than women. Widows are happier after their husband. dies. Widowers, it's true. Widowers are. less happy. Women live longer in. relationships. They live two to four. years longer. Men live four to seven. years longer. So, men actually need. relationships more. What I would argue. or what I would be cognizant of the fact. when you're talking about loneliness, is. you're up against the deepest-pocketed, most talented companies in the world.

with god-like technology who are trying. to do one thing. And that is sequester. you. from your other relationships. They're. either trying to get you to glued to the. phone. And one of the ways they glue you. to the phone is by enraging you. Elevating content that makes you angry. at your neighbor. Elevate content that. makes you start blaming the other gender. or blaming immigrants for your problems. >> is being done on purpose. Well, they didn't start out as. malicious, but I'm in marketing. We used. to think that it was sex that sells. Then the algorithms found something that.

sells even more in terms of gluing you. to a screen. And that is rage. So, I'm. not suggesting we censor these folks, but they will elevate content. They will. figure out your political leanings, your. fears, and then start elevating content. that enrages you cuz enragement equals. engagement equals shareholder value. So, keep in mind, the amount of time you. spend on a screen as a young man, and. biologically, your prefrontal cortex. isn't as developed as a woman. It. doesn't catch up until you're 25. The. executive function, the need for dopa,

it's much more dangerous in a young man. Keep in mind that you will find they are. trying to essentially convince you you. can have a reasonable facsimile of life. on a screen. So, keep in mind, you are. up against a foe that is trying to. separate you from the outside world. And. very simply, mathematically, the more. time you spend on a screen, the less likely you are to have loving. relationships, the less money you're. going to make, the more likely you are. going to be to engage in self-harm, the. more likely you are going to blame other. people. In sum, the worse your life gets.

based on how much time you spend on a. screen. We are mammals. We are meant to. be outside and in the company of others. And we have for-profit companies trying. to convince you to go the other way. So, you're up against some very significant. foes. On the idea of role models, the single point of failure, if you. reversed engineered a boy coming off the. tracks, is when he loses a male role. model through either death, divorce, or. abandonment. We have more single-parent homes than.

any nation in the world other than. Sweden. And what's interesting is that girls in. single-parent homes have the same. outcomes, same rates of college. attendance, same income as dual-parent. homes. A boy, when he loses a male role. model, at that moment is more likely to. be incarcerated than graduate from. college. What it ends up is that while. boys are physically stronger, they're. emotionally and mentally much weaker. And what we need, quite frankly, is we. need more men to step up and fill the.

void. There are three times as many. women applying to be big sisters in New. York as there are men applying to be big. brothers. So, we have an obligation to. get involved in a young man's life, right? And it's Just to summarize here, if we want better men, we have to be. better men. Well, I have to say I think of this this. book, Notes on Being a Man, as a as a. guidebook. And from your personal. perspective for how men can.

uh begin to show up in the world, you. talk about that. Everything from fitness. to nutrition to money to work and how to. meet women. The thing that struck me was. that eight men 18 to 25, 45% of men 18. to 25 have not engaged personally um. asking a woman out for a date or. I I I find that to be shocking. Almost half of young men have never. asked a woman out in person. Wow. And there's a bunch of factors around.

that. One, it's difficult. I mean, it's just not. easy. One of the key skills I think a. man has to treat or try and give his son. is to how to express romantic interest. while making that person feel safe. And I This is only anecdotal evidence. When I go out and I'm in social. situations, I'll have women approach me. and say, "I'm here. I'm single and I'm ready to mingle. I. look amazing and a man hasn't approached. me in 3 months, right?" And 80% of women. still expect the man to make that.

initial approach. And also to a certain extent, men's. interest in romantic and sexual. relationships has been pathologized. Like there's something wrong if you want. to meet women and ultimately have sex. And I think we need to start celebrating. it. Because a man's desire to be in a. relationship and quite frankly to have. physical encounters is fire. And that is. it can be destructive. You spend too. much time with porn, you start. objectifying women, it can lead to. misogynist or dangerous places. But that.

fire can also be captured in an engine. and create tremendous progress. Wanting. to have sex, if channeled correctly, which it is for most men, makes you want. to dress better, smell better, have a. kindness practice, have your act. together, develop the resilience and the. confidence to approach someone and maybe. they're not interested and guess what? You're both going to be fine. These are. key attributes. We need to celebrate men. wanting to have relationships and making. an approach. And if you don't develop.

those skills and that resilience and. those calluses from rejection, you're. going to struggle in other parts of your. life. So the most rewarding thing in. life. is relationships, full stop. And I think. the most rewarding relationship is. building a life with someone and having. kids. I'm not saying you have to have. that to be happy. And quite frankly, just to be raw about this, when I saw my partner who I've had kids. with, I wasn't thinking I'd really like. lower rates on auto insurance. I was. thinking, just to be blunt, I would.

really like to have sex with her. And that forced me to be a better. person, to try to have a kindness. practice, to demonstrate excellence. And. 18 months later, we had our first son. So let's stop demonizing men for wanting. to procreate. It's a wonderful thing as. long as you channel it into wanting to. be a better man. The only thing I can. guarantee you is that anything wonderful. in your life is going to have a lot of. no's. Full stop. And unfortunately, men. aren't getting to know cuz they're. afraid to or they have what they think.

is a cheap substitute for these. relationships online. So let's talk for a moment about your. younger years, your parents and what. happened between them and your life. after their divorce. That was all a. huge, huge influence on you. How How did. your mother and father shape who you are. as a man? I was raised by single immigrant mother. living and dying of secretary light of. my life, right? And my father, like a. lot of us, um was a very handsome.

Scotsman, not very sophisticated, left. at the age of 13. And just to be crude, he was a handsome man with a Scottish. accent in 70s California, which meant he. could not only think with his dick, he. could listen to it. He was married and. divorced. I can't believe I just said. that on Oprah. >> Yeah. He was. He was married and divorced. >> I I can see how you can think with it. I'm just trying to understand how he. listens to it. But anyway, okay. >> Married and divorced four times. Started his third marriage while he was. still married to my mom. My father was.

not an especially high character person. in terms of how he treated women and how. he treated my mom. And so not having a. male role model around, he moved away. Uh I think took a. quite frankly a toll on me, but what was. the worst part about it was he wasn't. very good to my mom. He wasn't nice. And. the lesson I carry forward as a father, I do think the best thing you can do to. raise good men, quite frankly, is just. to be a very loving, supportive partner. You want good men who are more secure.

and better in relationships, they will. model you. You can tell them whatever. you want, they're just going to watch. what you're doing. The first rule as a. man is you need to be very good to their. mother. Even if you end up going through. divorce, the more generous you are, the. kinder you are, I think your sons are. going to notice that and going to model. it. My mom was, you know, every day, when you get older, you get more thoughtful. That's the good. news. The bad news is you get more. thoughtful and you start thinking about. how did I get on Oprah, right? >> Yeah. And the way I got on Oprah was. one, I'm a product of big government,

the generosity and vision of California. taxpayers and the Regents of UC. I got. to go to UCLA and Berkeley for almost no. money. Had a 74% admissions rate when I. applied, this year was 9%. But also also. just the irrational passion for my. well-being and my mother. Every day, I. remember going to lunch with my mom. I. was teenager, I was 5'10 with terrible. acne, 110 lb. And she would literally. stop and go, "You are so handsome. I. can't get over it." And she would sit.

there. and stare at me. Anyway, if you believe. if if if you say to a kid every day in, you know, explicit and implicit ways, "You're wonderful." I just don't I I. think at some point they start to. believe that. Yeah. So that confidence. is still with. >> That's really one of the first things I. underlined on page 28 when you said, "This is something for us all to. remember. Having a good person express. how wonderful you are hundreds of times. changes everything. I was tethered." And. I thought it I'd never thought of it.

that way before. Having a person express. how wonderful you are hundreds of times. actually tethers you. in a way that that nothing else can. Yeah. Yeah, I was I was grounded and. and the thing is and this goes back to. mentorship and there's a lot of men in. this audience and by virtue of the fact. you're here, you probably have your act. together more than you realize. >> Yeah. And there's a fear that you need. to be a CEO or a baller or an adolescent. psychiatrist to get involved in a young. man's life. It is so easy to add value. What I would.

suggest is masculinity is taking care of. yourself, taking care of your community, taking care of your country. But I think. the ultimate expression of masculinity. is to get involved um in a young man's. life. And the place to start is with. single mothers in your workplace. Do you want to come over and watch a. ball game? Would you like to hang out? I'm washing my car this weekend, would. you like to come over? But that really. is the single point and even just saying. that boys need good men a few years ago. was seen as triggering. What? Women. can't raise men? Of course they can. But.

the research is clear. Boys need men and. there's an absence of them in our. society right now. Yeah, I remember. years ago doing a show and a lot of. women, single mothers, getting offended. when the experts said at that time that. you can be a great mother, but you can't. be a father cuz a lot of mothers think. that they are also the fathers. But men. need male role models, period. That's. what you're saying. 100%. And also, to. be clear, I think that masculine We talk. in the book about masculine and feminine. energy. That masculine energy can be.

brought in a household headed by two. women. That feminine energy can be brought, that mix I think the mix of masculine. and feminine energy is the greatest. alliance in history. The genders have done a great job of. convincing themselves that it's the. other gender's fault. And I hold on to. that the greatest alliance in history is. a mix of the wonderful kind of healing, nurturing, gracefulness of femininity. and the more risk-aggressive, more what I'll call protective instincts. of masculine energy. But I want to be. clear, neither of those attributes are.

sequestered to people born as men or. women. My closest male friends tend to be more. feminine in nature. I'm drawn to men who. are more caring. But I do think. masculinity comes easier to people born. as males. And that if they need a code, they can lean into an aspirational form. of masculinity. I think that we all need. a code and I think young men are. desperate for some sort of guardrails. >> Okay. On page 137, you say every man. needs to develop a code, a series of.

adjectives or behaviors that guide and. define his everyday behavior. So how do. young men develop a code. amidst so much, you know, divisiveness. and distractions? How do you get a code? Well, people get it from different. places. They can get it from their. religion. They can get it from the. military. They can get it from their. family. I got my first code, I would argue, from. my workplace. There was just a way you. approached work and other people and I. started to that was very helpful to me.

But what I put forward in the book is I. think masculinity can serve as a code, but an aspirational vision of it. Specifically, uh be a provider. I think every man at. the outset of his career should assume. at some point he might to have to take. economic responsibility for his. household. >> Because you believe that's one of the. tenets of being a man. Well, I think in a capitalist society, men are. disproportionately evaluated on their. economic viability and also the way men. evaluate themselves. And if you're not. economically viable, I think you're.

going to have a tough time having the. self-esteem, having society respect you. and quite frankly, attracting mates. And. we don't like to say this out loud, but. 75% of women say economic viability is. key to a mate, only 25% of men say this. about women. So the reality is as much as we'd like. to think it doesn't matter, when the woman starts making more money. than the man in a household, the. likelihood of divorce doubles. The use. of erectile dysfunction drugs triples. cuz the man feels worse about himself. I. am not suggesting that we do anything to.

get in the way of women's ascent. economically. It's wonderful, we need. it. Quite frankly, it won World War II. because we put women in factories and it. has saved our economy that women are. killing it. It's an amazing thing, but. as a man, you should assume at the beginning you. need to find the certification and. demonstrate the the discipline and the. will to be economically viable. And. sometimes that means getting out of the. way of your partner and being more sup-. supportive of her because she happens to. be better at that money thing than you.

That is also a form of masculinity, but. I hold on to the fact if you are not. economically viable as a man in this. economy and this society, not saying it. should be this way but it is, you are. going to struggle. You're going to. struggle in terms of what society thinks. of you, what you think of yourself, and. quite frankly, what a lot of women think. of you. Economic being a provider, too, protector. The whole point of. prosperity, the whole shooting match, is. such that you can move to being a. protector. Think about the most. masculine jobs: fireman, cop, military.

The end of the day, they protect. And. then the ultimate expression of. masculinity, planting trees the shade of. which you will never sit under. You want. to be a provider, you want to be a. protector, and you want to be a. procreator. And I think that vision of. masculinity as a code can serve as. really wonderful guardrails for a young. man. Uh in the introduction, you say you. heard from a lot of moms who say. something like, "I have a daughter who. lives in Chicago, works in PR, and. another daughter who's at Penn. My son. lives in our basement, vapes, and plays.

video games." You believe that a lot of. mothers are also the ones who are. sounding the alarms on what's going on. with young men. The dialogue, Oprah, has. gotten so much more productive. 5 years. ago when I saw the data and I started. talking about it, the reaction was. pretty much a gag reflex cuz the reality. is people. who look and smell and feel like me have. had a 3,000-year head start. From 1945. to 2000, America registered a third of. all economic growth with just 5% of the.

population. So, we had six times the. prosperity in America. And then all of. that prosperity was essentially shoved. into a third of the population that was. white, male, and heterosexual. So, I. have had gale-force hurricane winds in. my sails. I have had unfair advantage. The problem is is that we are holding. 19-year-old men accountable for my. privilege. They do not They do not. benefit from the same unfair advantage. that I had, and that's probably a good.

thing. But we are holding them. accountable. Young men are on any metric. really struggling, and the alliance. between men and women needs to be. restored such that we can be the. afterburners for their success and their. ascent as women, but also I do think. women play a role in not falling into. this trap of thinking, "Well, you've had. a 3,000-year head start. I don't feel. sorry for you." You know who wants more. economically and emotionally viable. young men? Women.

So, let's bring in more of the men in. our audience. Let's take a look at this. video that Brandon posted on Instagram. I don't know if I'll ever. be a husband. or a father. And that really really hurts me. Because that's all I've wanted. since I was a kid. And it eats at you.

And you wonder if you're ever going to. get. what everyone else has. If you're good enough, if you deserve. it, if it's. something that's meant for you. And I've had to come to terms with maybe. it's not. And what that brings tears to my eyes. and makes me. as sad as someone could be, you just got to trust God's plan. But I can still dream.

Mhm. Brandon, why do you think you feel. that way? What's behind it? I've. struggled with that alone feeling my. entire life. Um I got to live my dream. job as a sports reporter on TV, and. people would see me on NFL sidelines. interviewing the biggest stars, but. behind the scenes I was struggling with. that alone feeling. I thought I met my. wife, woman I was going to have kids. with, and unfortunately it was a really. toxic relationship and breakup, and it. put me in a spot where I was suicidal. and didn't want to live anymore. And so, I had to check into a hospital, get.

help, and I realized for the first time. that I wasn't alone. And I took that. moment and I decided to, similar to what. you're doing, be hopefully a vulnerable. man that can help others. And so, I. created The Mental Game. I interview. athletes and celebrities like Terry. Crews, Nate Burleson, Kevin Gates, these. men who you think might not have any. problems in the world, and they struggle. with the same things as me and other men. in this room. And I also go all over the. country and try to speak. We've been to. 46 states, spoken to over 250,000. kids, adults, men, women, just trying to.

show that, "Look, it's okay to be alone. and to be vulnerable as men, but you. have to show those emotions." You know, I watched my dad my entire life hold it. all in, and it wasn't until the night. that I called him and said, "Hey, I'm. going to take my own life," that we ever. talked about mental health. Mhm. So, is all that talking and speaking. about it, has it helped you resolve your. own? Yeah, I mean I was emotional. watching that video. We locked eyes as. soon as it started playing because I. posted that 3 weeks ago on a Friday. night not thinking it would do anything, and it had 5 million views when I woke. up. Cuz I think a lot of other men felt.

just like me. So, it is like therapy. Um. I go to therapy. I spent 2 weeks in the. hospital. This has become my purpose to. help myself and others. But I think what. I've learned traveling the country and. working with these athletes and. celebrities and just anyone that's. struggling with their mental health, specifically men, is a lot of us feel. the same way as I did in that video, and. that's why it went viral. But we're. scared of what our peers, other men in. the room, women will think of us. I. mean, I gave up on dating. I want to get. married. I want to have kids one day.

But since, you know, I lost to I thought. was going to be my wife and and the. mother to my children, um I kind of put. all that energy in me. And so, I'm not. on dating apps. I don't The rejection. thing, that's the biggest thing I'm. scared of. I would never go up to. someone at a bar and say, "Hey, you're. beautiful. Let me buy you a cup of. coffee." I don't drink anymore. I'm. sober. I struggle with addiction. Um I. mean, maybe in my younger days in. college, I'm cool. All right, you get. no, great. Go to the next one. Now, as. being someone that's 32, >> Scott said here earlier about rejection, how did that land with you? I mean, it. hit hard because like it's funny, my.

professional life, I took all of the. risk I could possibly do, leaving a job. as an NFL reporter and starting my own. thing. Personal life, I have no interest in. that. Just because of that fear. And so, rather than risk that, I'd rather pour. that energy into myself, going to the. gym, working on my business, working on. my mental health. Yeah. I think loving. yourself, I didn't love myself until. like a year and a half ago. And it took. me a long time to get to that point. Okay, what's your your question for. Scott? I think for me it bounces off.

that of. how can you balance loving yourself but. also trying to find that person to love? I feel like for the first time, like I. said, I do love myself, and I'm ready to date. I want to get. married one day and be a father and have. kids. But it's like how do you balance. the two? Can you do both at the same. time? So, I just feel like I need to disclose. I have no domain expertise or training. in psychiatry. And so, when you talk. about mental health issues, I can talk. to you about my own mental health. issues, but I don't ever want to.

supplant the notion that you should talk. to professionals and get real advice. I'm speaking to you as someone who's. been through a lot of what you've been. through, but my advice is anecdotal. So, just that that asterisk. Uh I coach a lot of young men, and I'm. I have enough respect for you not to. PG-13 or whitewash my con- my content. When men usually say, young men, the. young men I work with usually want to. move out of the parents' house. They. want to start making some money. And. then ultimately what they end up is like.

when they start trusting me, "I'd really. like a girlfriend." And I go through a. series of exercises. And the first thing. I ask them is like, "Would you have sex. with you?". What do you look like? Do you take your. appearance seriously? Do you have a. plan? Do you have a kindness practice? How do you demonstrate excellence? Right? The basis of that. >> the way you talk about you emphasize. kindness so much in Notes on Being a. Man. There are three reasons women are. attracted to men sexually, and there's a. ton of research here. Number one, and we.

don't like to talk about this, is the. man's ability to signal resources. All. right? We don't like to admit that. It's. important. Number two. is intellect. Because instinctively, people who make. good decisions for the tribe, the tribe. lives longer. So, women are drawn to. intellect. The fastest way to. communicate in intellect is humor. And just so I can offend everybody, it's a joke, but we're we can be funny. about this. This is my impersonation of. a woman. I'm laughing, I'm laughing, I'm.

naked. If you can make a woman laugh, the only dates I ever got were people I. could make laugh. If you can make a. woman laugh, she will likely have a. coffee with you. And then the third. thing, and this is the most. under-leveraged secret weapon in mating, kindness. Because women instinctively know there. might be periods in their life with. their gestation or because they are. smaller physically that they need. someone who baseline is kind, right? So, a kindness practice. I I don't I'm not.

proud of this. >> were not always kind? >> proud of this. I was not born with the. kindness gene. And when I had kids, I realized that. they were going to model me. So, I. believe like anything, you can develop a. practice. And every day I tried to do. something that demonstrated some sort of. generosity towards someone with no. reciprocal expectation. >> When did you realize you were not a kind. person? Professionally, when I realized. that I could have been so much nicer, I.

could have. Were you unkind? Were you an. >> Never mean, never unkind, but what you. realize is that you have. Everyone has capital. When you're young, you have more time than money. When. you're older, you have some money. I got. some early success. I It would have been. so easy for me to lift young people up. I was never mean, but it would have been. so easy for me me to say, "You were just. outstanding in that meeting." Or I've. been watching you. I I I think you're. going to do great. This is where I think. you can improve. I just It's so easy and.

you don't have to be a baller. I now. stop I saw an old couple I'm virtue. signaling right now, but it's true. I. saw an old couple on the street. They. looked amazing. It was one of those New. York couples and I stopped them and I. said, "You guys just look amazing.". And I could tell it made them feel good. and it made me feel better about myself. And now after doing this for 20 years, it's uh it's common practice. But these. are basic reasons why women are drawn uh. to men. What I would say to you is it. sounds like you've worked a lot on. yourself and you're ready.

Boss, there's no free lunch. If you want. to make real money, if you want to hang. out with someone higher character than. you and better looking than you quite. frankly, get ready to eat cuz it. involves rejection over and over and. over. Nothing wonderful will happen to. you without taking an uncomfortable. risk. And a lot of it is just practice. Get used to no. And when I tell these. men I mentor, church group, sports league, whatever it. might be, and then you got to express. friendship or romantic interest, and. this is what's going to happen. You're.

probably going to get to no, and then. you're going to call me the next day. I'm going to say, "Are you all right?". And that person's going to say, "Yes.". I'm going to say, "Okay, now the next. time it's two approaches.". You just got to build some calluses. There's no easy way around it. No is the. path to wonderful yeses. Got that, Brandon? I got it. I'm going. to try my best. I I The humor part. helps. Thank you. I applaud you, Brandon, too. for being so allowing yourself to be so. vulnerable on that tape. That's why you. got 5 million responses cuz people.

respond to your heart. Mhm. Jermaine is. 25 and first here's a quick look at one. of his TikToks. America, I'm not going. to lie. I really think that the like us. as men the male population we are. literally having a a crisis that nobody. is talking about. There is so many men. that I know that are struggling with. like mental health and depression. especially in these times where the. economy and like. uh money and jobs more men don't have.

jobs right now. More men are going. through financial struggles. More men uh. my age who got degrees, who went to. college, who did all the right things. cannot find jobs and nobody's really. talking about it. And yet we're seeing. these stats that say like oh uh less men. are having kids, less men are getting. married. Do y'all think that's by. choice? That is not by choice. This is not our. fathers and our grandfathers economy. Why would I sit here and put myself in a. bigger bind of trying to get married, have a kid, and buy a house if I can't. even survive on my own? And I feel like.

nobody is talking about this and. eventually this has to become a part of. the public conversation as society is. moving forward. Okay, we are having that conversation. right now. >> We are. We are. Uh so asking is given. So what's your. question? Yeah, I think my question and. relating back to the video is that I. think we're having a conversation about. men who are just, you know, in the. basement and just unsure where life has. taken them. What we're not having the. conversation about is men like me who. did all the right things. You know, you. go to college, you have the right job, you don't really struggle necessarily.

with relationships or women or whatever, but you do have this kind of fear of I'm. doing all the right things right now at. 25. How do I stay on track with the the. way the political climate is going, the. way the economy is going? This is a. whole new era that we're in and so my. question is just what do you say to men. who are 25, who are on the right path, doing the right things to stay focused. and stay ahead of the curve for the. future when it looks very unpredictable. here in the United States? You just wish. as you got older you could you could. wrap your arms around people and give.

them the confidence they deserve. You know, if I had your looks, I'd be. the leading candidate for the Democratic. presidential nomination right now. Look, th- there's there's pivots to. solutions, but the reality is. my generation and old people have. figured out a way to continue vote. themselves more money. People over the age of 60 or 72%. wealthier than 60-year-olds 40 years. ago. People under the age of 40 are 24%. less wealthy. Marriage is a new luxury item. If you're. in the top quintile of income earning.

homes, there's a four in five chance. you'll get married. If you're a man in. the bottom quintile, there's a one in. five chance you'll get married. Unfortunately, income as it relates to college, certification, confidence, the ability. to put yourself in environments for. mating, it's really unfortunate. It's now. related to the income of your parents. So what I would suggest is the. following. Realize that a lot of this is not your. fault and forgive yourself. And two, as.

citizens, there are common sense. solutions, but they're not that romantic. or don't make for good TikToks. We need $25 an hour minimum wage. We. need You know what would be the best. thing for young men right now? Universal. child care. Where a man is at the greatest risk of. self-harm is in the year after he gets. divorced. He loses his primary relationship. One. out of three men no longer have contact. with their children 6 years after. divorce. That is the zone of suicide.

And why do young people get divorced? Is. it a lack of shared values? No. Is it an. infidelity? No. It's financial strain. So if we want healthier loving. households, it's pretty damn easy. My generation. needs to stop hoarding so much wealth. with economic policies that benefit us. For the first time in our nation's. history in 275 years, a 30-year-old. isn't doing as well as his or her. parents were at the age of 30. National.

service, tax credits for third places, $25 an hour minimum wage, more. vocational training, universal child. care, Pell grants. When I got went to. UCLA, the admissions rate was 74%. This. year it'll be 9%. I went for $7,000. total tuition. My first house in San. Francisco cost $280,000, which I bought when I was 28. But now my. generation has weaponized college and. housing. Once I get a degree and a.

house, I want the admissions rates to go. down and all of a sudden I become. concerned with traffic and I don't like. any more housing permits. This is pretty. damn simple. We got to put more money in. everyone's pocket here. I I got to stop buttressing my own. wealth with your credit card deficit. spending that elevates my wealth and. robs economic opportunity from you. The. greatest thing we could do about the. loneliness crisis and the mating crisis, pretty damn simple. Put more money in. your pockets, full stop.

Make sense? Make sense. Make sense. Thank you. Thank you, Jermaine. Let's. talk about the term toxic masculinity. Yeah. Now you say that this elicits all. sorts of reactions and you call that. phrase the emperor of all oxymorons. What's your take? Well, I don't think there's any such. thing as toxic masculinity. I think. there's cruelty, there's abuse of power, there's violence. But masculinity is supposed to get in. the way of those things. Women need to. cross the street when they see men cuz.

they feel safer. Right? It breaks my heart and then you. hear in the in New York women are afraid. to get on subways and they'll say. because there's too many men. Yep. So from a very young age, we have to. teach our boys. you're a protector. That's how you. demonstrate masculinity. And it's not. just physical. Real men break up fights. at bars. They don't start them. Your. default operating system as a man should. be to weigh in and protect. That's why. we're here. We have denser bone.

structure, better double twitch muscle, and this amazing thing called. testosterone. And the whole reason we're. given that is such that we can protect. people. Move to that. Okay, so some. women heard we were talking to men today. and wanted to be here. Marie Claire, what do you want to say? I just want to say you're a household. name in my apartment of three. 25-year-old women. So. I'm very and. really anytime I hear this conversation.

being advanced, it. brings me a lot of joy and and hope to. see thought leaders just stepping in. wanting to protect and. honestly redeem and restore my. generation because. I mean, I'm heartbroken by what's going. on and I'm heartbroken for everyone in. this room. I'm heartbroken for myself. What breaks your heart the most? The desperation. It breaks my heart from. from me and like my girlfriends that I. talk to that. any hope and desire that will be married.

with kids is like faith-driven because. if you look at the facts, there's no. reason to it. You know, like. why would I hope that someone would like. want to say I do to me. a bunch of times throughout my life if. like they can't even use the word date. And it's heartbreaking. It's not anger. because I know that it's a systematic. problem, but I think that's a very very. profound distinction that it's. heartbreak and not anger. >> anger. It's heartbreak. And.

I mean, I could talk all day about how I. think Big Tech is the enemy of community. and fruitful relationships and social. media almost ruined my life and and I'm. and and I can only speak for myself when. I say that, but it really almost did. And I and I think it is ruining some. lives and I think it will continue to do. so if we don't do something about it, but I guess my question for you. is something a little bit more abstract. and loftier. In the midst of this crisis, how.

can we love each other well in this. generation? How can we show up for each. other? And. what What of encouragement do men to. hear from their peers? Um. I just something there's any getting. around it. I think we have. robbed prosperity and opportunity. from your generation to transfer to. mine. The D in democracy is working too. well. Old people have figured out a way.

to vote themselves more money. I would suggest as in terms of how we. show up for each other, I think big tech. is part of the problem. I think. synthetic relationships for people under. the age of 18 should be outlawed. I think social media there should be no. social media under the age of 16, no. phones in schools. My colleague at NYU. Jonathan Haidt's done a lot of great. work around this. But what I would suggest is that. getting out, saying yes a lot, yes to invitations. I.

think young people do have more agency. than they recognize. And that the key to happiness, I think, is almost entirely correlated with how. much time you spend out of the house. And so, what I would say to any young. person is try to say yes to as much many. things as are out of the house. And also, I feel like young people. through Instagram and online dating have. developed a series of red flags where. they immediately say, "Oh, he's not over. 6 ft." or she doesn't have a certain.

color hair and they. they write off each other. So, this is a reality of human. sexuality. Men feel Men are much less choosy. Yeah, we're much more promiscuous. The reality is men need venues to. demonstrate excellence. And when if you. talk to people who've been married. longer than 30 years, almost always one. was more interested in the other and it. was usually the man that was more. interested than the woman. But what happened is, at church, I like. the way he treated his parents. I found.

out he was really talented. He made me. laugh. Where does a man demonstrate excellence. right now? They're not going to church. Remote work, I think, is the worst thing. to happen to young people. A third of. relationships begin at work and 99% of. them are consensual. It's not like it's. all predatory. I I've had 11 marriages at the companies. I've started and I have my I had no idea. they were sleeping together. Did anyone. know? And they get married and that's that's a. wonderful thing. Anyways, what I would. say is that vote for people who are.

going to recognize that young people. need to share in this prosperity, but. also to realize you do have agency, right? And getting out, being friendly, being open, you know, that's the only. advice I can. provide. And try and put away the phone. because 210 200 times a day you're going. to get a reminder that you're not living. up to this fake life that someone else. is pretending to have. This is These are lies.

>> nodding cuz you feels like you've gotten. this, right? You already you know this. is happening. So, Jack is in our. audience and I hear Jack you read. Scott's book and you have a question. about dating. It's true. Yeah. A lot of excerpts from your book stuck. with me. Yep. But one in particular is a. callback to the point you were making. on how one of the most important. strengths a young man can develop. is a willingness to endure rejection. Yeah. I love to go to run clubs and try to be. intentional about going to third spaces.

with my friends. >> Yep. And we often talk about like how. many strangers are we going to say hi. to? How many people are we going to ask. to coffee? And we say five, 10. And then. we check in at the end and it's usually. zero. It might be one. Um. what would you tell your 25-year-old. self who may have felt that way or maybe. you never felt that way, but for all the. men that you mentor, what do you tell them? So, like.

I I live a life that is just my parents. wouldn't believe, right? I'm here with. Oprah, right? And when I reverse engineer those. things, they come back to the rational. passion for my well-being of my mother. I'm a product of big government. I got. assisted launch, Pell Grants, public school. Um my mom accessed family planning. If. we hadn't had access to that, I I we. would have been in poverty. So, it really upsets me that immigrants.

built my companies. I ran tech. companies. It really upsets me that. America today seems to be attacking. everything that got me. kind of where I am. If I could go back. in time, I would say forgive yourself. because. you know, I remember thinking like, "Oh. gosh, I had companies go bankrupt. that I'd started. I endured a lot of. rejection from women. I wish I could go back and say, "All. right, you can add value to a company. So, you will make someone happy. If you.

keep trying and you're a good person, you will. uh make money." But my superpower, quite. frankly, and this is the superpower I'd. want everyone to inherit by doing what. you're doing, approaching strangers, my superpower is rejection. Specifically, I'm willing to endure it. I applied to nine graduate schools. I. got into zero and then one let me off. the waiting list. I can't tell you the. amount of rejection I've endured from. women. And my the ability to mourn and move on,

I mean, I get a lot of power from my. atheism and I believe at some point I'm. going to look into my boy's eyes and. know our relationship is coming to an. end. And embracing my insignificance and your. insignificance. makes me feel so much better because. when I say something stupid or I endure. some form of rejection, it gives me comfort to know they're. going to be dead soon and so am I and it. doesn't matter. So, why on earth would I. not squeeze as much juice out of this. lime called life. and.

establish the ability to mourn and move. on. So, what you're doing is a key. practice because. the ability to endure rejection, again, it's kind of everything. Everybody sees. the guy or the gal who has it all. I. can't imagine everything was a yes for. you. I can't imagine the amount of no's. you got to get to this point. But the. ability to look in the mirror and go, "That's okay. We're both going to be. fine.". It's everything. It's fact that you're. out, you're at run clubs, you're even. having these conversations with other.

men. I'm not worried about you. You should be. mentoring me. You're going to be just. fine. Okay, Jack. So, Anne Marie, what. did you want to say? So, this has been such a great and. enlightening conversation. I have so. many thoughts that I want to add. I have. to say for a lot of my friends, we've. just completely given up on dating. We're more focused on our family and our. friends and our careers. And for me. personally, I feel like I've gotten to a. point where I really love the version of. myself that I've become. I put a lot of. work into her. I'm really focused on my. career and that emotional independence.

and it feels really great to be in that. space. So, I thought when I started. dating again, that would actually make. dating easier, but I feel like it's. getting so much harder to actually find. someone who is willing to come to the. table and meet me where I am. So, my. question for Scott is as women continue. to level up more and more, why do you think that we can't find as. many men that are willing to meet us. there? So, what you said was really telling. that you're pouring your energy into. family, friends, and work. That is very telling. That's more.

indicative of women than men. And that. is women tend to channel that energy. that romantic energy or lack thereof or. interest into very positive things, whereas men sometimes channel it into. into negative things. The reality is my. message. I'm not here with a message of hope on. this because the reality is. women made socioeconomically. horizontally and up. Women, generally. speaking, and this isn't true for. everybody, but generally speaking, women. who graduated from college don't want to.

date men who didn't graduate from. college. Not always, but generally. speaking. It's the high heels effect. And again, this is an uncomfortable conversation. Uh 50% of women say they would never. date a man shorter than them. I think that's I think it's. more like 80%. I think women. instinctively want a dude they feel they. could physically protect them. And the problem is or the issue is, and. it's both a wonderful thing, but. something that's created knock-on. effects in mating, is that women.

metaphorically are getting taller every. year. and men appear to give you getting. shorter. I'm saying metaphorically. And the divorce rates have skyrocketed. and 70% of divorce filings are from. women. And it's because and it's actually for. some good reasons. Women no longer feel. like they're economically indentured. servants. They have their own game. And their ascent economically has not. been matched by men's ascent emotionally. and logistically. So, women wake up and. say, "Okay, I'm making more money than.

you. You're not pulling your weight at. home and you're kind of not there for. me. You're not really noticing me." And. so, a lot of women are doing the math. and exiting the relationship. What I would say is what you're feeling, quite frankly, I think is what a lot of. women are feeling. And a lot of women. say there are no good men to date or. there are no men to date. No, there just. aren't that many men they'd want to. date. And so, where I try to go to. solutions is how do we lift up young. people such that they're all or more of. them are economically viable, which I. think will on the margin lift up or.

disproportionately impact young men. But. just the fact that you said you're. self-conscious or aware enough to pour. that energy into really productive. things. means you're going to be fine. I don't. think romantic love is the be-all. end-all for everybody. It's really. rewarding, but I think you can find what I'll call. that sort of purpose, relational love, in a lot of different. areas. And the fact that you're even. thinking about how you channel that. energy into stuff that's more.

productive, you're the role model for. young men right now. Not everyone's. going to find romantic love right away. or it's going to happen or going to take. longer. But how do you how do you transfer it. into more productive means that make you. a better person, a better citizen, a. better sister, better daughter? So. anyways, this is a long-winded way of. saying. right on. You're you're you're you're. being a productive human. You're going. to be happy regardless if you find that. or not. And I just wish more men would. take your lead and say, all right, maybe.

things aren't working out for me. romantically. I'm going to continue to. work on myself. Got it. And I'm going to. pour that energy into other. relationships. Yeah, that's what Brandon did. That's. what he said at the very beginning. So. we have another question. Mike, what's. your question? So thanks, Scott. Um this really touches. home for me. My wife and I have triplets. 24 years old. My one son graduated from college. He's. doing pretty well. Lives in Chicago. Works for a big firm. Uh my son actually is has a job, but.

he's not happy with it at all. My. daughter went on to get a master's. degree. My question to you is as you. stated earlier, this is the generation. that we don't see outdoing their. parents. Yeah. >> My wife and I kind of troubling to us. Um what can we do as parents? What advice would you have for this. generation? And what can we do as a. society to help out? So. the first thing is you and your wife. need to forgive yourselves, recognizing. the market's bigger than any individual. performance.

So by virtue of the fact you're really. involved in your kids' lives, that's. probably the most important thing. Just. being there and present. But I do think. we need to acknowledge that again, there. are programs, economic and social. programs, to help lift young people up. One out of three young men under the age. of 25 is living at home. One out of five. men, right? Is living still at home at the. age of 30. So the number of people living at home. uh men living at home has doubled. And.

it creates rage and shame across our. whole culture cuz whether you want to or. not, you're kind of by them living with. you, you're kind of a reminder they're. not doing well, and you also take it on. like. you know, at the end of the day as. fathers and as mothers, we feel like. that's our one job, right? And so when. it's not going well, it just attacks our. self-esteem. So without knowing your specific. situation and not having the domain. expertise to counsel you in a thoughtful. way, what I can say is this is an issue. facing America. I think it's our biggest.

issue. And we need to stop sending to DC, a. cross between the Golden Girls and the. Land of the Dead. Two-thirds of Congress is going to be. dead in 25 years. Do you think they're. really worried? Do you think they're. really worried about you or the national. deficit or climate change? So my point. is young people, vote. Get out. And also. as a parent, forgive yourself. You're. doing your best. And a lot of this is. out of your control.

Yeah, one more because as you said, being there in the home form. My parents didn't know where the heck I. was when I was these guys' age. Is that helpful or is that a hindrance? I actually think it was a good thing. I. think we overprotect our kids on offline. and underprotect them online. We we won't let a 9-year-old two-thirds. of 9-year-olds have never walked down a. grocery shopping aisle alone, but they go online where they face they. interact with strangers and bots.

I used to leave my mom's house at 9:00. a.m. on a Saturday morning with an. Abba-Zabba bar, a Schwinn bike, and 35. cents, and she wouldn't see me for 14. hours. I got bullied. I got into trouble. And. it was great for me. It was great for. me. I developed resilience, a sense of. adventure, camaraderie. I'm not. suggesting anyone should be traumatized, but we overprotect children. The two. things that appear to be spiking teen. depression are one, one social and on.

mobile, and also the concierge bulldozer. parent uh parenting of my generation. where we clear out every obstacle for. kids, and then they get to college, and. they get their first D, or they get. their heartbroken, and they literally. freak out. They've never known that. So. it's a combination of things, but I. think the overparenting of my. generation, I don't know if you're. guilty of this or not, but I would not. come home till 11:00 p.m. My son's 5. minutes late from school, we call MI6. and the CIA.

So I think some of it is overprotection. I don't think it's been a good thing for. kids. >> Thank you, Mike. Thank you, Mike. Thank. you for this book. Thank you. Thank you. You're all getting it. All right. At the end of the book, I I I I love the. message. It's a long message, so I. wanted you to summarize. You write a. message to your sons. What is the. ultimate message that you want to give. them and want to give to the world.

through this book? Well, I So at the end of the book, I. wrote a letter to my sons. Which I think everybody should write a. letter to their sons. Sure, why not? Cuz. I was reading that, and I was thinking, yeah, everybody should write a letter to. their sons. Uh one, I first and. foremost, I want them to know how much. how immensely I love them. Two, I want. them uh to really to realize the best. decision their dad made and the best. decision they made was being born in. America. I really do think there are certain. wonderful attributes, some of which.

unfortunately appear to be on pause. right now. I hope they haven't gone. away. But I hope that they always um. appreciate how fortunate and blessed. they were to be born in America, and. that they reinvest in America. >> Mhm. And then more than anything, um that. they take care of their mom. Mhm. Thank you. Notes on being a man. Scott. Galloway. Big shout out. Thank you, NEW YORK. BEAUTIFUL. THANK YOU. BEAUTIFUL. THANK.

YOU, TOO. WOW, that was interesting. Thank you, guys. Thanks for coming out on a rainy. day in New York City. Thank you. Thank. you. So what will be your takeaway? Be kind. Be kind. Get out to the ballot. box and vote. Vote. Vote. Yeah. was one. of my big takeaways, too. It's clear. Yes. >> My big one was take care of your mom. I. just lost my dad this year, so. very important to me.

Be an active participant in the. redefinition of masculinity. Well, now. Okay, I love that. I love. that. Don't just listen to this conversation, go do something. Go mentor a younger. man. Go mentor a younger man. Men have. struggles, too, and I can accept that, and we can work with it. We can work. with it. Yeah. My takeaway is that men don't want to be. told how to be men. We want to feel like. men. So create spaces for men to thrive, to.

access the full range of emotions that. we have access to, and model behavior. And model behavior. Did you have a. takeaway, Brandon? Be okay with. rejection. Go for it. Like don't worry. about getting told no. Um it's okay. Thank you all for being here. Thank you. so much. [Music]. You can subscribe to the Oprah podcast. on YouTube, and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. I'll see you next week. Thanks, everybody.