The Life Lessons Maya Angelou Taught Oprah

I've said this [music] many times before. that my greatest lessons have been. articulated by you. >> I had to learn them myself, but they. were articulated by [music] you. What. you can do is approve of yourself for. living. >> Approve of yourself. >> for being alive. >> For being alive. >> My belief is you never can leave home. >> You take it with you. >> Everywhere you go, >> everywhere you go. >> So, uh, my past is my present. [music]. And everything that's happened in your. past is what makes you who you are right.

at this moment. >> What's that? >> One of the most important lessons I ever. learned from you. And that is when. people show you who they are, believe. them. >> Yes. Absolutely. >> Well, you know, when you know better, you do better. >> That's the ticket. >> That's the ticket. I recited [music]. that to myself many times. I come as. one, but I stand as 10,000. And that's. it. You girl. >> The force of that. >> That's it. The [music] force of that. >> Yes, ma'am. A happy hello to you. I thank you for. taking the time to be with me here on.

the Oprah podcast. One of my greatest. mentors, mother, sister, friend in my. life, Dr. Amaya Angelou, passed [music]. 12 years ago. And I know you all feel. this sometimes too for people who are. close to you. It's still hard to believe. it's been [music] that long. Maya taught. me more, I believe, than any other. single human being [music] that I knew. on the planet. I learned so many life. lessons from her. [music] Um, things.

that she actually said, but also how she. lived and moved through the world. I. think she is one of the reasons why I. have embraced aging with such enthusiasm. because she was she would say to me, "Girl, [music] I'm telling you the8s are. hot." So, I'm still waiting to. experience that. [music] Um, I learned. so many lessons from her. I could I. could could write a book about it. And I. know she had the same impact on so many.

of you. I first met her in my early 20s. I was working in Baltimore and uh I had. convinced my station news director that. she was worthy of being on the evening. news. They didn't even know who she was. She was speaking [music] at Morgan State. University. And I asked them if I could. go and cover her and create a story from. it. [music] And I met her backstage and. I said, "Niss Angelou, if you would just. give me 5 minutes of your time." 5.

minutes of your time. [music]. um I I would really appreciate it for. this interview. And she agreed. And I wa. was was held my hand out. I had a little. um Timex watch and I watched that clock. to make sure I didn't go [music] 1. second over the 5 minutes that she gave. me. And when we were done, she turned to. me and she said, "Who are you, girl?".

and I. was forever taken by her. Our bond was. immediate. It was profound. [music] And. I would go on to interview her countless. times throughout the years. And when all. of the craziness and disruption of life. sometimes would creep in, um, [music] I. would call her and I often go back to. the lessons I learned from Maya Angelo. to remind myself to get centered in who,

uh, I really am. And many times when. things still occur, I think, oh, what. would Maya do? What would Maya be doing. in this time? It's a blessing to me that. I have so many of those conversations on. camera. So, for this podcast, I want to. share some of those great lessons with. you because my intention right now is to. do what Maya said in her poem to. grandmother. She said, "When you learn, teach. When you get, give." So, my.

intention is to share the wisdom I've. learned over the years to offer you a. breathing space, a thoughtful place. beneath all the noise of the [music]. world. Starting with Maya's belief in. the power of words. I got this lesson. many times from her. Words are things. I'm [music] convinced. You must be careful about the words you. use [music]. or the words you allow to be used in. your house. In the Old Testament,

[music]. we are told in Genesis that in the. beginning was the word. and the word was God and the word was. with God. [music] That's in Genesis. Words are things. You must be careful. Careful about calling people out of. their names, [music] using racial. peoratives and sexual poratives and all. that ignorance. Don't do that. Someday we'll be able to measure the.

power of words. I [music] think they are. things. I think they get on the walls. They get in your wallpaper. They get in. your rugs [music] and your upholstery. and your clothes. And finally into you. When I was three and my brother five, my mother and father separated, divorced, and neither of them wanted me. and my brother. But my grandmother, my father's mother, said, "Send them to me." And so they.

sent us without adult supervision on a. train with tags on our arms. saying, "These children are to be given. to Mrs. Annie Anderson, my grandma.". We actually arrived in the town. [singing]. Dining car waiters and Pullman. carporters took us off trains, put us on. other trains and we really arrived in. this village about the size of a studio. to Stamps, Arkansas.

[singing]. [music]. >> My grandmother owned the only blackowned. store in the little village in which we. lived. She was an amazing woman. She. lent money to to the white businessmen. in the town during the depression. So, she taught me so much and I look like. her. and I sound like her. When I was seven, uh,

we were picked up and taken from my. grandmother. to my mother's people in St. Louis. My mother's people were foreign to me. All of her brothers were. highutin, you know, were so this and that. And. my brother Bailey and I tried to learn. and become city kids. But my mother's. boyfriend raped me when I was seven.

>> [music]. >> I told Bailey the name of [music] the. rapist. I wouldn't tell the adults, but. I told Bailey. I said, "I can't tell. [music] you because he said he will kill.

you." He was 9 years old. He said, "I. won't let him." So I told him, "Of. course, I believe anything. He was my. black kingdom come." [music]. So he told the family. The man was put. in jail for one day and night and. released. And two huge white policemen came into. my mother's mother's house. Bailey and I were on the floor playing a. game.

in her [music] parlor. These huge. policemen came in navy blue surge. [music] suits and blue surge was about. half an inch thick in the 30s with big. brass buttons. They look like giants. And they said [music] the man has been. found dead and it seems he was kicked to. death. [music]. I thought my voice had killed him. That was my uh 7-year-old logic.

So, I stopped talking. My mother's family and my mother did. their [music] best to woo me away from. my mutism, but they didn't know what I. knew. My voice could kill. So, I stopped. And after a while, I think they just. really got tired of the presence of this.

>> mad and sullen and silent child. >> So they sent me back to my grandma. to mama. the best thing that could have happened. [singing]. >> My grandmother, she was an amazing. woman. She gave me a little tablet, a. fashion tablet, and she took a pocket.

knife and cut a groove in a number two. pencil and put a string in that [music]. groove. And then the other string she. tied to the spiral of the tablet and I. kept that on my waistband. So anybody asked me you know what I. thought I would write it. Mrs. Flowers was a black lady in stamps. in my neighborhood.

and she knew I didn't speak. so she took me to the black school. There was a [music] library. about onetenth the size of my library in. my home, but it seemed to me there are. millions of books. And she said, "I want you to read from A. to C L. and make notes." [snorts] I was 8 years. old. I read every book. I read everything. I.

don't say I understood that much, but I. read and and [music] I found that I. loved poetry. I loved it. All of it. Just what [music] that which I. understood and that which I didn't. She. would come up the hill from the white. school. I don't know how she had that. contact, but she'd come up with books. for me to read. and I I love them. I've read Paul. Nunbar, James Wellen Johnson, Count.

Pull. I memorized. I read Edgar Allen. Poe. I loved Po so much I called him E. to myself. I read Shakespeare and at one time I I. memorized like 50 sonnetss or something. But I read one sonnet which made me. think Shakespeare may be a black girl in. the south who has been molested. How could he know when, in disgrace.

[music] with fortune and men's eyes, I. all alone bemoan my outcast state. and trouble a deaf heaven with my. bootless cries and look upon myself and. curse my fate. Shakespeare knew what it. was like to be raped. and scorned, [music]. you see. So I of course I thought he was a black. girl barefoot in the south. It spoke to.

me. [music] about 4 years after Mrs. Flowers. started me to read and really to read. I. was about 12. Mrs. Flowers invited me to her house and. she used to make tea cookies and. lemonade. and she'd give me that to drink and. she'd she'd talk about poetry and she'd. read to me with this voice.

and she said, "Maya, you do not like. poetry.". I got my tablet. I said, "Yes, ma'am.". She [music] wouldn't even look at my. tablet and she pointed her finger at me. And really, black people don't like to. be pointed at. And she was so elegant. She knew better. She just shook her. finger in my face. I ran out of her house. I ran back to my. grandma. And Mrs. Flowers came back there and.

pointed her finger at me in front of. mama. She said, "You'll never love it until. you speak it. Until you feel it come. across your tongue, over your teeth, through your lips. You will never love. poetry. never. And she harassed me. She. kept following me around and round for. months. And finally, I went under the house. where the chickens go and dirt is so. soft because they scratch under there.

I went under that house and I tried to. recite a poem. and I found I had left my voice. My. voice hadn't left me. So I started talking again. and [clears throat]. I'm not stopped. No, I thank Mrs. Flus. And aren't we glad she didn't stop? Mhm.

Well, uh, Maya Angelo is one of the. world's greatest poets and authors, and. she wrote more than 30 books over the. course of her life, and her seinal. autobiography series began with I Know. Why the Cage Word Sings. It's considered. one of the best non-fiction books of all. time. Uh, it's been banned for years. Uh. I've been a student of that book uh. since I read that very first page where.

she says uh what you looking at me for? Didn't come to stay. Only came to say. happy Easter day. Well, I was just. floored by that sentence because I grew. up in the church just like Maya grew up. in the church raised by her grandmother. I was raised by my grandmother and it. was the first time that I'd read a book. I know why the cage bird sings where a. young girl's story was a mirror for my.

own and I felt so validated. by her story. So, when you wrote I Know Why the Cage. Bird Sings, was that to was that a a a. cleansing and a proclaiming of yourself. to the world? >> I don't think so. I've heard that that's. what it was supposed to be, but really, you know, that it was supposed to be in. its own way cathartic and that. >> I don't know about that. I didn't feel. that I had doed a particular mortal.

coil, you know. Um, I felt I had tried to write the truth. and write it eloquently. >> Um, but I don't know, you know, that I. never agreed with Thomas Wolf's. statement that you can't go home again. >> My belief is you never can leave home. >> You take it with you. >> everywhere you go. >> Everywhere you go. >> So, uh, my past is my present. >> and everything that's happened in your.

past is what makes you who you are right. this moment. >> What's that? When you wrote that, did. you know that it would do for me and. everybody else who's ever read it, particularly young black girls? I opened. that book. First of all, what you when. you open the first page, I grew up in. the church, raised by my grandmother, doing speeches. When you open the first. page and the first words are, "What you. looking at me for?" Didn't come to stay. Only came to say happy Easter day. When. I look, I thought there is a world out.

there that's about me. somebody knows. about this, right? >> It was it was a what it did to me. >> Oh, thank you. >> Was amaz It just amaz It changed my life. >> and because I I think that was the first. piece of black literature I read and. after that I couldn't read enough. >> Yes. >> I couldn't get enough. >> I know. That's why I send you the books. by there. >> Yes. From that wonderful bookstore in. Denver. You sent it to me. >> also and have them have some books down. You do? Yes. Well, when you wrote it, I.

want to know hear from your mouth why. you know the caged bird sings. >> Well, there are two or maybe 2,000. reasons. The caged bird sings because it must. >> It must or die. It maybe it must and. die. I don't know. But it must sing. Sometimes the melody. arrived at in the cage is much more. fetching, much more appealing, much more.

profound, much more poignant than the. the melody arrived at by the bird who's. on the loose. The caged bird. sings with a fearful trill. Its song is heard on the distant hill. for the caged bird sings of freedom. >> Freedom. Freedom. Let me out of here. Let me out of here.

>> And so there is something universal. about that song since all of us are. caged in some way or another. And so. people can hear it and say, "Oh yes, oh. Lord, let that bird out.". >> You know, at least I feel for the bird. I ran across. in my senior memory book not too long. ago my goal in the senior memory book it. says take a good long look at yourself. and I ran across something that I had. written. It said I want to be a genuine.

female woman strong and confident in. myself. I want to come back and talk. about what that means because so often. on the show we have psychologists every. day who say you need to learn to love. yourself. >> Yes. It's so hard when people are filled. with self self-loathing. >> Yes. And doubt. >> And doubt. >> Sometimes it isn't even strong enough to. be loathing which can be turned around. It's just doubt. It's indecision. It's. confusion. Quite often it's just they.

can't even ask the question. So it's. very hard to get an answer. >> But you know all the time we talk about. loving our what does that mean? >> Well, you can't love yourself all the time. But what you can do is approve of. yourself for living. >> Approve of yourself. >> for being alive. >> For being alive. >> You know, you can say, well, I'm alive. and I thank God for that. And so, I. mean, I did something very dumb. yesterday and I don't like that or u I'm.

not seeing as profoundly or acting as as. noly, and that's a really important. word. >> It is. >> It is. Yeah. I I'm not acting as noly as. I know I could or should or must, but I. do approve of myself for being alive. Now, you see, as long as you do that, you leave yourself room to grow. >> Oh, wow. It's It's just I can't even. tell you what it's like just I remember. that being her little um garden room and.

sitting in that room and being in awe of. her. Every time I was around her, I. always felt like I was like 11 years old. again or 7 years old sometimes. We spent. many nights on the phone. Uh I I looked. to her for words of inspiration and. strength for most of my life. I mean. during the early years of the Oprah. Winfrey show, I was in the tabloids all. the time being exploited. so many. negative stories that were all made up.

and lies and um she was always always. always consistently there. Sometimes I. would call her and I'd say, "Can you can. you can you help me figure out what what. I'm supposed to do?" And she said, "Babe, let me go pray on it. I don't. want to just give an answer straight. away. Let me check in with the Lord and. see what the Lord has to say and I will. get back to you.

Well, we once threw a dinner and a. pajama party at her house with readers. whose lives had been changed by her. work. And I remember we were so moved. talking with Maya, we all just broke. down crying at one point. And after. dessert, we decided to let the cameras. film just the two of us chatting in bed. in our PJs. And we discussed again many. of life's lessons, including those she. learned from her own mother, Vivian. Baxter, as well as one of my favorites. Take a look. Here we be in my Angelou's.

bedroom, the big brass bed. >> Yeah. Talking about life lessons, I I've. said this many times before that my. greatest some of my greatest lessons. have been articulated by you. M. >> I had to learn them myself, but they. were articulated by you. >> Before we get into that, I must say to. have you. in my bedroom where we are from time to.

time as my daughter. It's one of the sweetest things. If I. could have had birthed girls, I would. have not had the wisdom or or the. creativity to make you. I don't like to, but [clears throat]. but uh when I think of you and and think. of how much I want to tell you, I wish I.

could just take your ear and go. and blow into your ear everything I. know, >> everything I've been through. >> I wish you could, too. >> But it's pretty wonderful to have a. chance to talk to you about courage, about laughter. >> Now, okay, courage. That's that's one. You can't do anything without that. The. other most important lesson, >> well, it's hard for me to number them, but let's say one of the most important. lessons I ever learned from you, and I. still am, you know, I think I know the.

lesson, and then I'll walk into a. situation and think that's that same. lesson. And that is when people show you. who they are, believe them. >> Yes. Absolutely. A person says to you, "I'm selfish or I'm mean. or I am unkind. >> or I'm crazy. >> or I'm believe them. They know. themselves much better than you do.". >> Mhm.

>> But no, more often than not, those of us. who don't trust life say, "Don't say a. thing like that. You're not really. crazy. You're not really unkind. You're. not really mean. And as soon as you say. that, the person. let you know. >> and shows you, I told you. >> Mhm. >> I told you I was unkind. So now, why are you angry? >> Beware of people who are at your feet.

>> When the winds of fortune change, they. will be at your throat. >> So whenever you see them at your feet, stop them right then and say, "Stop. that. I'm not influenced. I'm not I'm. You do not please me. Oh, you're the. greatest. I adore you. No, don't give me. that. No. Adore God. Adore somebody. Don't adore me. Don't do that. I'm a. human being just like you. Out here. doing my best. This is one you told me. today I thought was brilliant. We're. just at the breakfast table. Loyalty to.

things is addiction. >> Yeah. >> Loyalty to God is liberating. >> Yeah. that that will live with me forever. >> I I knew that, you know, it's somewhere. I know that is true. I try to live that, but I I hadn't articulated it so well. >> But there's almost nothing I tell you. that you don't say, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I mean, you already know. >> I say that then I go write it down. >> Yes, that's true. >> Cuz I want to remember it that. particular way.

>> But what I mean is you already know it. inside yourself. >> Inside myself. Yeah. It's just that I. put it into words. >> You talk a lot about um Vivian Baxter. and Heart of a Woman. What do you think. are the greatest lessons she gave to. you? One of the greatest was when I was. 17. >> Mhm. >> I left her house. She said, "All right, you leave this house, but no, when you. walk over my. uh front steps,

you've been raised. Don't let anybody. raise you. Your grandmother, your uncle, and I have. taught you the difference between right. and wrong. Now, she said, "Every. relationship you have, whether work or. romance or in any kind of career, you will have to make compromises. That's all right. But don't let anybody. raise you.". I took that to mean that I was a woman.

And that's what she gave me. The idea. that I was a woman. >> who'd already been raised, a woman who'd. already been raised. Well, living much. of my life in um certainly my adult life. in in the public eye uh opened me up to. all kinds of criticism. uh it was not. like even today because today the. criticism is you know a millionfold.

because of social media for everybody. Um but I think one of the hardest things. I had to get through was there was a. period of time where I'd been betrayed. by people I thought I could trust. And. any of you who've ever been through. that, you know, I know is is there any. worse feeling in any kind of. relationship than to be betrayed by. someone you trust? And one time I. remember being.

so hurt that I was in the bathroom and I. was sitting on the toilet seat, put the. toilet seat down and there was a house. full of people when I heard had first. heard about this betrayal and I was like. crying crying crying. that kind of crying on the phone with. Maya about something that someone had. said and therefore had gotten published. in a tabloid that wasn't through and I. was calling her expecting her to be.

sympathetic and say it'll be all right. and don't worry about it and instead she. said stop it stop it I want you to stop. it and I was like what what do you want. me to stop and she says I want you to. stop right now and say thank you and I. said but you did you hear what I said. and she said yes I heard what you said. she said but Say thank you right now. Say thank you. Thank you. So I mumble,

thank you. She goes, I want to hear it. louder. Thank you. I go, thank you. She. said, you're not thanking me. You're. thanking God. Because God has put a. rainbow in this cloud that you right now. think is a storm. there's a rainbow waiting in the cloud. for you on the other side. And that calmed me and was life-changing.

for me. So whenever something hits, I. say. thank you. because I know God has put a rainbow in. the clouds and something better is on. the other side. Um, I have to say she. didn't always tell me, most often didn't. tell me what I wanted to hear, but was. one of those people who was always. available to tell me what I needed to. hear. I I feel like I'm one of the most. blessed people on earth for so many.

reasons. But one of the best gifts I. ever received that was just I think more. than a a gift was a was a was pleasure. and joy and a blessing all wrapped in. one was a handwritten book. See, this is. her actual handwriting Maya Angelou. wrote to me beginning April 6th of 1990. And they were just thoughts that Maya. had that she wanted to share with me. It. really is a treasure. And they're.

lessons that I had learned or things. that you had said to me over the years. And I think the best lesson I ever. learned when people ask the question, what is the thing you've learned the. most out of life is a lesson. Do you. know which which one it is? You're not. >> You're not in it. >> You're not in it. >> Yes. Exactly. >> You're not in it. >> Of course. I remember it. And I remember. also telling you that a number of times. Yes. >> Because no lesson is learned. immediately. >> Right. It took me a long time to get it, didn't it? >> Yeah. Well, you got it, but you get it.

on so many levels. You see, there's a. phrase used in West Africa, deep talk. >> Meaning that you anybody will understand. on a certain level. People who are. interested in really understanding more. take that statement or that lesson a. little deeper. Somebody else will take. it even deeper. And the West African. suggest you can never understand. completely. Even at 80, as far down as. you take that that apherism or as far.

down as you take the adage or the. advice, you could still go deeper if. you'd live long enough. So when I told. you the first time you were you called. and you some newspaper. >> tabloid. >> tabloid had just vilified you and or or. Steedman or both and. >> and you were really as close to to. losing it. You were so hurt by the by.

the erroneous and and ridiculous and. cruel accusations that you were just. hardly getting your breath. >> Mhm. >> And I said, "You're not in that." And. you said, "Yes, but you see this is what. they said." And I I said, "Yes, but you. are not in it.". Yes. But and then I heard you start to. realize what I was saying that that has. nothing to do with you. That has all and. everything to do with the perpetuator,

>> right? >> And he or she or they are going to get. their living out of you getting your. dying. And so obviously you can't give in to. that because you're not in it. And you. know it happens I to people who are on. on in every walk of life. Not just. people who spend their lives like you. know I do on television every day but I. I hear little girls who are going to. school and people are talking about them. in class or when people are making fun.

of you or your neighbors we did this. show not too long ago where there's a. click in the neighborhood or a click in. the office. But the the lesson is always. the same. You're not in it. >> It's true. They would have done that. without you. This is what you have to. realize and this is true of the rape. victim. You see it runs that that uh. understanding is as broad as life is. So. that the rape victim so often thinks. that she is in it or he.

is in it. That same rapist would have. done somebody else. Another one of the. things you've taught me is that I love. that phrase that you say that people. will try to peck you to death like. ducks. Yeah. >> Not just out. Most people don't have the. courage to just come out and. >> and kill you. >> And kill you. They will take a little. piece of your. >> Yeah. They'll take the flange off your. nostril and a bit of the lobe of your. ear hoping that you didn't even notice. it. You see? And that that's called.

blow, bite, and blow. That means that. you blow on something. until it becomes anesticized, quickly, bite, and then blow again. M. >> and the person doesn't even know he's. been bitten. You see, West Africans call. that blow, bite, and blow. >> So people do that then. That's my son's. phrase, pecked to death by ducks. >> Pecked to death by ducks. >> Have people tried to do that to you? >> Oh, many times. >> Many times. >> I mean, it hasn't stopped. I'm sure that.

it's happened today. Well, but the thing is I I encourage you. and. my I have two other people who I. consider daughters and the black rose in. San Francisco and a girl a woman in West. Africa Araba. If I could have had. daughters, you three would have been the. the three I'd have chosen. Um, my encouragement.

is to stop it as soon as it h as soon as. you hear it. As soon as you sense this. person wants me dead. The person just. walks in and says, "Oh, you're putting. on weight, huh?" You say, "Stop it. Not. me. You don't. Not me, Jack. >> Not me. >> Not me. Out. Get out." Now, I have lost. or left a lot of men who um you know. just in public would say something like,

"Well, Maya, I don't know why she wore. that dress. This is not the dress that. looks good on her." I said, "That's the. end. That's it." So, the man then when. we get home, because I start packing his. clothes, he says, "You take everything. to the max." I said, "Yes, because I. know that once you take that flange off. my nostril, pull one patch out of my. hair, and I don't say anything, the next. thing you'll have me bald." [laughter]. Oh, no. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no.

>> Oh, that just happened to me the other. day. I was someplace. Somebody was. asking me to do something. This woman, I. didn't even know her. And she says, "Oh, but you know me." And I said, "But no, I. don't really I don't. I'm not sure." She. says, "But I knew you when I knew you. when you were barefoot and you were. walking back some." And I was thinking, >> "Oh, she wants me. She wants she wants. me dead.". >> Exactly. She wants me back. >> This is it. >> But I didn't have the courage to do. that. I didn't have the courage to say, "Stop it.". >> You must You do them a favor. Not only. yourself. >> You do them the favor of not having to.

do that again to somebody who will. actually knock their heads off. [laughter]. >> You understand? >> Yes, I do. >> You really do them a favor. The best. thing to do is stop them in their. tracks. >> She will stop you, babe. >> Just say, "Stop it. >> Stop it. >> Stop it.". >> Oh, she knew how to do that. I will say. that. Yeah. I turned 72 this year and. I've never felt better in my adult life. What I do know for sure about this. seventh decade is that you understand. that while you may be closer to the end.

of your life, you value the time that. you've had and you have value for the. time that remains. An even greater. value. I think I feel I was here to earn. my wings actually. And I've paid. attention and been observant. That's one. of the first things that Maya Angelou. said to me when we met. um all those. years ago she said I can see that you. are a girl and what you are is obedient.

You are obedient to the call. So uh I really. felt that in my bones when she said that. cuz I have been obedient to the call. I. have a call. You have a calling. We all. do. But the question is, will you be. obedient to the call or will. that brought you here to the planet or. will you resist that and try to tell it.

what you're supposed to do? So, when. Maya was in her 70s, I was approaching. my 50s. And here's what she had to say. about aging. >> What does 74. >> feel like? >> It's so wonderful. It is so good. I thought the 50s were. hot. [laughter]. until I reached the 60s. >> Uhhuh. >> The 60s are out there. >> They're out there. >> Woo. [laughter].

But then when I reached [clears throat]. the 70s, I now know the 70s. You want to reach. the 70s. Everybody stay alive. Reach the. 70s. [applause] I tell you. >> because because does it do you feel age? You know this is a society that so puts. you know age and aging and we're so. concerned about it but do you feel is.

there a point where you say oh yes I'm. now an older woman. No there are some. things that have not escaped me. Pain. has not. >> ecstasy has not. Uh satisfaction has. not. Disappointment has not, a fear has. not, >> courage has not. So there are some. things which have not escaped me. So. that keeps you young. >> Mhm. >> If you start thinking that you know it. and nobody can tell you anything, you.

found the one way and you can call all. others false. >> It's already over. >> It's already too late. You have become. old. >> at 18, at 25. when you think you know. everything, >> but when you really know a lot. >> Well, I've been around a long time. >> You do know a lot. You've been around a. long time and you've paid attention. Like it's so interesting though cuz. people say to me um uh they say when you. call her up and you talk to her, does. she talk like she talks when she's. [laughter].

and it is true. Many times I call my I. like like just the other day morning I'm. like sitting at my kitchen table and she. just starts a conversation. Let me get a. pencil. >> [laughter]. >> write this down. And while she's. talking, I and then she goes, "Are you. there, babe?" I go, "Yes, I'm here.". [laughter]. >> It seems so clear. um on my 74th. to see a little bit. It seems so clear that. >> you get clearer as you get older. You. do. You get clearer.

>> about, you know, a little bit, but not. much. [laughter]. Listen, that's not why I mean, don't get. older just to get wiser. If you get. older, you will be wiser. I believe. that. >> If you pay attention, if you dare, if. you dare life. Yeah. >> Uh but get older because it's fun. >> It's fun. >> Yes. It's great fun. Now, today I was so Yes. Well, you know, the body is going, but I. mean, you know that. So what? [laughter].

No, no life lives forever, you know. So. my knees are gone. Okie dokie. Um, and I. find that, you know, my hair has changed. a lot and that and the breasts are very. interesting. [laughter]. Yes. Well, because they are in an. incredible race. They're in an incredible race to see. which one will touch my waist first. [cheering]. [applause].

[applause]. [laughter]. And it's fun. Living is fun. >> Oh, that's fun. >> Yes, that's fun, too. >> Watching them run for it. >> Yeah. [laughter]. >> But you know, if you if you put it in. your mind that it's fun. >> Yeah. >> It's fun. >> It's fun. >> But if you think, oh, >> you know why it's fun? Cuz you're still. here. >> Still here. >> I'm still here. >> I'm still here. And somebody's still. calling me darling. >> Ain't that.

>> Oh, that's the thing. Hey, you're. somebody's still calling you darling. So, in 2013, I spoke with Maya Angelou. on Super Soul for a two-part special. would be one of my last public. conversations with her. We talked about. so many of her lessons, including. forgiveness. This is a big one. >> Forgive everybody. Just forgive it. I. mean, mind you, we ask the creator. >> Yes. >> to forgive. >> Yes.

>> Our stupidest actions. >> Yes. ruinous mean mean yes meanhearted. things. >> and say God forgive me. >> forgive me. >> or people will say I'm not perfect yes. >> yes that's right so then you forgive. >> and it it relieves you are relieved of. carrying that burden. >> of uh of resentment. you really are lighter. >> you feel lighter you just drop that.

drop So I would encourage her forgive. >> Forgive. >> That's the first thing. >> Then you're free to do other things to. have some ambition and so forth. >> because forgiveness I know you often say. love liberates us but actually. forgiveness does. >> also. But I mean you can't forgive. without loving. >> Yes. >> And I don't mean sentimentality. I don't. mean mush. >> I mean having enough courage to stand. out and say I forgive. I'm finished with.

it. I had to get to a place where I. could forgive the man who had raped me. when I was 7 years old. >> I had to get there and that was a matter. of incredible mental gymnastics. And then I had to think of what I had. done. to other people and see how I'd been. forgiven. Whatever I've done, I've been forgiven.

Mhm. >> And I have to get at least to a place. where I can forgive. I don't don't forget and I will not be. put myself in a situation where that can. be done to me again. >> Mhm. >> But I understand. So, as we list all of. your achievements, the first black. street car conductor, dancer, singer, poet, playwright, film producer, director, actor, civil rights activist, professor of American studies at Wake.

Forest University, recipient of more. than 70 honorary doctorate degrees, and. author of more than 30 books. Is there. anything you wanted to have on that. list, but didn't get a chance to do? One of the things I wanted was to have a. daughter. I have a son who is in my heart. Wonderful young man, wonderful person, good human being, daring and loving and. strong and kind. I wanted a daughter.

and I've taken people's daughters. I. have certainly taken you. I took uh my. daughter-in-law because I know I'm a. good mother. I care and I dare. >> I care enough to let you go, but I dare. enough to follow you. >> I will say that too. And I will say, you. know, one of my part of my nature is to. be obedient. I'm obedient to God's call.

And over the years when I would call you. for advice, sometimes I would take it. >> I knew it. >> Most often I would take it. Most often I. took it. Right. Yes. >> And sometimes I didn't. But you have. never been the kind of mother that says, "I told you so." So when I didn't take. it and the mistake inevitably happened, you were not the kind of mother to come. back and say, "I told you.". >> But you were the kind of daughter who. said, "I was wrong. >> I was wrong. I should have listened. I. should have listened." [clears throat].

>> First of all, have you ever tried and. failed at something? >> Yes. Many times. Many times you forgive. yourself for every failure. >> Yes. >> Because you tried to do the right thing. God knows that and you know it. >> Yeah. >> Nobody else may know it. >> Yeah. Well, because one of the great. lessons that I've learned from you, when. you know better, you do better. >> That's the ticket. >> That's the ticket. >> That's it. >> And that's why you forgive yourself. Yes, ma'am. >> Because if you'd known better, >> I'd have done better. >> Yes. >> Of course. One of the things that. strikes me most about Maya Angelou's.

life is how at six feet tall, she was. six feet barefoot, she moved through the. world with uh an unshakable. kind of um calm and confidence. Um. in one of her poems she writes about uh. another woman and she says of that woman. she had a certain way of being in this. world and I think Maya also did she had. a certain way of being in this world the.

way she moved and carried herself. I'll. never forget uh the time that I was at a. party at her house. I was at many. gatherings at her house. Um she always. used to have a big huge Thanksgiving. dinner with you know hundred people. coming from all over the country. Uh but. I was there one evening when she. actually kicked someone out of her house. after they made an offensive joke. I. mean it was it was mindshattering to see.

that happen because we've all been in. the midst of somebody telling a joke. that is an inappropriate joke. shouldn't be said and you kind of. or you turn or walk away or whatever. But not Maya. She heard AC from across. the room somebody telling this joke and. comes across the room to ask them to. leave her home. >> Tell me this. You say words or things. and that they're so powerful. Do you.

have a favorite word? >> Oh, love. >> Love is your favorite word. writing. >> Are there words that you Mya Angelo as a. writer just like the sound of and the. >> I like murmur. >> You like murmur. >> M u r mur. [laughter]. >> Yeah, it sounds good, doesn't it? >> It does sound good. >> Murmur. You can't shout murmur. It is. murmur. Murmur. >> You can't shout murmur. >> No. >> The one thing that I think that I have. admired and loved about you that I.

couldn't articulate, it just occurred to. me now. I remember once being in your. house and somebody was telling a joke. and you were on the other we were at a. party. It was a lot of noise in the room. and they were making telling a joke and. it was um a racist uh homosexual joke. and you stopped the party. >> First of all, I couldn't believe I was. like like how can she hear that and. she's all the way over there? But you. stopped the party and asked the person. to excuse themselves and leave your.

house. >> Yes. Exactly. I. >> I say, "Is this your coat? [laughter]. >> Did you come with anyone?". >> Both of you come this way. >> I know. >> Oh, yeah. No, no, no, >> no, no, no. I I So, and everybody else. is like, "Whoa, what just happened?" And. then you said to all of us, "I will not. allow it in my house.". >> That's right. It's vulgarity and it's. poison. And this is what a person must. know. I know there are black people who. say, "Oh, you can use the N-word to me. because I'm I'm black." No, it is.

poison. All of that, any racial. porative, sexual porative, any of that. stuff is created to make a person less. than human. And that means it's poison. Nobody can use it safely. I mean, if. poison is poison that you get from a. pharmacy and it has P O I S O N on it. and skull and bones. >> Yes. You can't take that content and. pour it into Bavarian crystal and make.

it otherwise. It's still poison. >> Yes. >> So then you don't want it clinging to. the walls, get into the upholstery in. your clothes and sooner or later right. into you. >> Right into you. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. So, this is what I want to know. Where did you get the courage to not. allow it in your space? Because there. have been many of you are watching right. now. People say things that make you. uncomfortable. They start a joke that's. going to be, you know, it's leading down. a racial path or homophobic path or.

whatever and people just sort of people. laugh nervously at it because they don't. know how to stop it. How do you stop it? You don't stop it by doing it. immediately. You develop courage. Courage, Oprah, is the most important of. all the virtues because without courage, you cannot practice any other virtue. consistently. You can be anything. erratically now and then kind, fair, true, generous, just blah blah. >> But to do that thing time after time. So.

what you do is you do it in small ways. >> I mean if you wanted to pick up a 100. pound weight, you wouldn't just go pick. you start pick five pound then 10 lb 20. Well that's the same way you do with. courage. You do the courageous thing, a. small one, and you like yourself. And. then you do another two or three, and. you like yourself better, and before you. know it, you're able to say, "Excuse me, not in my house." You don't. You don't. paint my walls with poison.

>> and vulgarity. You will not do it in my. house. Out. Is this your purse? Thank. you. >> Oh my goodness. >> I've seen it. >> I know. Because you believe that words. are things. >> Yes, ma'am. I know they are. >> They are things. Absolutely. >> You can put some words together and make. people want to go to war. >> Mhm. >> Put another few words and make them long. for peace. >> Yes. >> Words are so important. And this is what. you take to God. Words. You may not.

frame them, but God knows your heart. >> Yes. So when you go down on your knees. or in your bed or riding in a car and. you pray, you're using words, I'm. lonely. I'm hungry. I'm lost. I'm in. pain. Whatever your words are, help. They are words. They inform not only. God, but anybody around you how you. really feel. They are able, you're able.

to speak in nuances. >> Yeah. So be careful how use them. >> Yes ma'am. >> Because they carry the power. >> Yes ma'am. >> Yeah. >> Yes ma'am. Indeed. Well after I opened. my school in South Africa in 2007. I. told Maya that I really believe that. that school is going to be my legacy. Maya because she wasn't able to attend. I think she had the flu at the time and. couldn't come. So I left South Africa. and came directly back to her house and.

I was sitting there and she was making. biscuits and she said to me, I said, "Oh, I'm so sorry you couldn't be there. cuz that school is just going to be my. greatest legacy." And she said to me, "You have no idea what your legacy will. be." I said, "Oh, no. I do think that. the school's going to be it. Those girls. are going to go on and do really great. things." And she said, I said, you have. no idea what your legacy is going to be. because your legacy is never one thing. Your legacy is every life you touch.

It's everybody who ever watched a show. and made a decision after watching that. show and said, "I'm going to leave my. abusive husband. I'm going to go back to. school. I'm gonna buy a better bra.". Whatever it may be, your legacy is every. life you touch. It's not one thing, it's. everything. So, those profound words have stayed. with me. Uh, and I hope that they. resonate with you because it's how you.

live every day. It's not just the big. things. It's not the big moments. It's. not the big awards. It's not the plaque. on the door. It's not the promotion in. your office. It's not the acclaim. It's. everything. and every life you touch. It's the woman. at the checkout counter at the grocery. store. It's the way you treat the guy at. the cleaners. It's the way you handle. the person who's parked your car and. brings your car back. It's every life.

you touch. >> There's a book called Lessons in Truth. >> Wow. And in the book there's a line. which is God loves me. And when I came to read it to my then. mentor Frederick Wilkerson. uh the late Frederick Wilkerson I read. God loves me and he said read it again. I said God loves me. He said read it. again. >> Read it again. And finally I said God.

loves me. It still humbles me that this force. which made leaves and fleas and and. stars and rivers and and you loves me. Me, Maya Angelo. It's amazing. I can do anything and do.

it well. Any good thing, I can do it. That's why I'm who I am. Yes. Because. God loves me and I'm amazed at it. and grateful for it. Do you feel carried by the ancestors as. I do? Do you feel carried by them? >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. When you said when we talked last. week about. >> the your crown has been paid for. Put it.

on your head and wear it. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Do you feel do you feel. >> that absolutely your grandmother and her. mother before her grandmother and. great-grandmother do you feel. >> been born a slave. >> been born a do you feel that you're. carried by them. >> absolutely. >> and I'm responsible to them. >> Maya has spoken often about that. responsibility listen to this from 2003. >> imagine it just imagine any of us if we.

could really think of our. greatgrandfathers. and grandmothers. And if put them right in front of us. today and say, "Here you are. Are you. pleased with what I'm doing with my. life?". >> Am I making you proud? Am I doing all. you would like me to be doing? >> Because a person could say, "You're the. reason I I came over here on that boat. You're the reason I stood on the auction. block. You're the re I stuck it so that.

you could exist. Suddenly. life itself is richer. >> So wherever I am, I stand on the stage. in front of 10,000 people. My. great-grandmother stands there with me. >> That's the line in the poem grandmothers. that you wrote. One of my favorites. I. come as one, but I stand as 10,000. Oh. my gosh. Have I used that line for. myself internally on many occasions.

>> because that's who you are. I recited. that to myself many times. I come as. one, but I stand as 10,000. That's it. You girl. >> The force of that. >> That's it. >> The force of that to know that none of. us are alone. >> No. Ever. >> Cuz you've been paid for. >> already. Thank the Lord. >> Above all else, my Angelo lived her life. as a teacher. She said, "When you get, give, when you learn, teach." And during. one of her last times on the Oprah show, I asked her about her greatest lesson of. all. And here's what she said. But do.

you have a greatest lesson, Maya? >> Yes. I I suppose love is the greatest. lesson. Dare to love. Now, by love, I. don't mean indulgence. I don't mean. sentimentality. I don't mean mush. I. mean that condition in the human spirit. so profound. that uh it allows us to uh to dare to. step out on the word of God or on the. word one's own word. it this condition.

that allows us to like somebody we may. with love we may be able to look through. complexion and see community that's only. with love so I mean it may be opra it. may be that stuff that keeps the stars. in the firmament or the blood racing. through our veins I mean daring to care. >> that is the greatest lesson. >> so thank you for joining me now you have.

some of Maya's great life lessons in one. place. I hope you come back to them. whenever you need them. And you know, she gave me many gifts. Every time I was. with her, it felt like a special. enduring moment. And she knew that there was nothing she. could physically give me. But for my 50th birthday, she wrote me a. poem because she knew how valuable words.

are to me. And so she wrote me a poem. and that poem is you can find it online. and you can find it in in her book of of. collected poems. The poem is called. continue, but she she wrote it for my. 50th birthday for me and it con it. continues to be one of the the great. gifts that that she left behind for me. So, I'm going to read it for you and u. you can find it for yourself and I would.

I have to say that I think it's although. she wrote it for me, I think it applies. to millions of people and so I've. offered it to people for their you know. birthday gifts especially for um. milestone birthdays or milestone moments. in people's lives. So, this is Maya's. words to me. Continue. My wish for you. is that you continue. Continue to be who and how you are.

to astonish a mean world with your acts. of kindness. Continue to allow humor to lighten the. burden of your tender heart. Continue in a society dark with cruelty. to let the people hear the grander of. God in the peels of your laughter. Continue. to let your eloquence elevate the people. to heights they had only imagined. Continue to remind the people that each.

is as good as the other and that no one. is beneath nor above you. Continue to. remember your own young years and look. with favor upon the lost and the least. and the lonely. Continue to put the. mantle of your protection around the. bodies of the young and defenseless. Continue to take the hand of the. despised.

and diseased. and walk proudly with them in the high. street. Some might see you and be encouraged to. do likewise. continue to plant a public. kiss of concern on the cheek of the sick. and the age and infirm and count that as. a natural action to be expected. Continue to let gratitude be the pillow.

upon which you kneel to say your nightly. prayer and let faith be the bridge you. build to overcome evil and welcome good. Continue to ignore no vision which comes. to enlarge your range and increase your. spirit. Continue to dare to love deeply. and risk everything. for the good thing. Continue to float. happily in the sea of infinite substance.

which set aside riches for you before. you had a name. continue and by doing so you and your. work will be able to continue. eternally. I thank you my Angelo. Our listeners. tell us [music] that the podcast is. resonating with you and is serving as a. bright spot in your day. That means a. lot to me. So [music] here's the thing. I would really appreciate it if you like.

and subscribe to the Oprah podcast on. YouTube or wherever you podcast. It's. It's just a quick [music] tap of the. subscribe button and that way you won't. miss an episode in your queue. [music]. You don't have to pay anything. I know. subscribe usually means you're paying. something, but this time it means you. just are notified when there's something. new. [music] There are many more to come. that we're excited about. So, thank you. for watching and listening.