Tayari Jones: “Kin” | Oprah’s Book Club

We're surprising an author. To y'all at home. It's a book club I picked once before. For American Marriage. She doesn't know. I'm coming in. So, are you a good guest? Hello. Hello. >> [laughter]. >> How are you? How are you? It's great to. see you. >> to see you. I've come to bring good news. to you. Okay. >> I'm choosing Kimmie as a book club. Oh.

my god. Oh my. We're a twofer. >> [laughter]. >> Twofer. You're a twofer. This is this thing about it. I just felt. like I had taken a trip back home and I. knew these women at like as well as I. know myself and my own kin. Our. literature has to reflect not only who. we are but who we were. >> Yeah. >> And so I'm it means a lot to Uh thank. you. It means so much to me that you. wrote it. Wow. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Here we go. Here we go.

Hi everybody. I am so delighted to be. here with you on the Oprah podcast. We're in NEW YORK CITY. >> [cheering]. [applause]. >> WITH AN AUDIENCE OF MY kind of people, book lovers in New York City. Give. yourselves a round of applause for that. This year we're celebrating This year we. are celebrating the 30th anniversary. of the Oprah Book Club. Something I am.

very proud of because as a young girl. growing up in Kosciusko, Mississippi and. later in Milwaukee and then later in. Nashville, books were my lifeline. I. found myself in books. The first books I. remember reading like Maya Angelou's I. Know Why the Caged Bird Sings and To. Kill a Mockingbird, those books. transformed my life and what I thought I. could be in the world. So, when I. started my book club on the Oprah show.

30 years ago, I never dreamed that. millions of you, millions all over the. world would be reading along with me. So, I am truly I feel honored. It feels. like a full circle God blessed moment. to be able to say it's been 30 years and. I hope you stay along with me for the. ride and for many more books to come. So, today I'm excited for. my latest book club selection. I really. am. I mean, all the books that I choose,

I read personally myself after. you know, I hear about them through many. avenues and. I have a wonderful. book editor Lee Newman who sends along. the books to me long before they are in. the stores and I read a lot of. manuscripts and I don't choose anything. that I don't really like. But, there are. some things that I just feel resonate. deeply inside that that forever will be. a part of my.

book language and vocabulary. And this. book Kin by Tayari Jones is one of them. I have been so moved by Tayari's. writing. In 2018, I chose her. prize-winning novel An American. Marriage. Do you remember that? For my. 78th book club, I think. And Tayari is. just. she's one of those writers who has. trained herself to write, but she also. has the gift. She's able to allow the. divine to come through her and.

light up the pages with her words. And. Kin is a great great great extraordinary. example of that. It is the captivating. story of two childhood friends, Bernice. and Annie, and who both lose their. mothers and are raised by extended. family and they take very different. paths as young women. reading reading it. I felt like um. I I was like am I back in Mississippi? Am I back in Tennessee? It felt like.

going home and I know that there are so. many women all over the world who are. going to feel the same because Tayari. Jones was able to bring it to the page. WELCOME TAYARI. >> [applause and cheering]. >> WOW, [applause]. WELCOME. WELCOME. WELCOME. WELCOME. WELCOME. WELCOME. WELCOME. WELCOME. WELCOME. You. brought it to the page. Well, thank you. so much and thank you for having me.

>> Well, and and this audience has already. READ YOUR BOOK. >> [applause and cheering]. >> AND I WANT TO ASK A COUPLE OF you what. you thought about the book. So, Nerou. what did you think? I read this book through three lenses as. a psychotherapist, as a mom of four and. also as the eldest daughter of an. immigrant mother. And I think because of. that my heart felt so heavy throughout. the whole thing just experiencing the.

longing that both Annie and Neecie had. to be known and to know their mothers. and it made me think about my. relationship with my mom which was. beautiful but I began to understand her. limitations as an adult and see mine. that my own kids are experiencing. But you also illustrated so beautifully. the importance of these women who mother. but are not mothers. And it spoke to the importance of this. collective mothering for wholeness.

and it made me so grateful for the women. who did that for me and also now who've. left that indelible mark on my kids. because as mothers we're still working. through our own stuff as we're in this. stage of life. And these women give us a. wholeness that's greater than what one. person could do on their own. Mhm. Yeah, I love that. Julia? It really gave me an. insight into like the women in my life, my mom, my grandmother, my friends, my. closest girlfriends who are my chosen.

family, and I deeply connected with. Annie and her vulnerability. Her desire to feel loved, seen, and inherently as black women sometimes. we carry. this burden in a way of always being. strong before we're ever allowed to be. soft. And. through that you have to be so much for. so many, but really you need to be. enough for yourself.

And I wish Annie had that opportunity to. find that peace in her own independence. Oh, I love that. I love that. Oh, one of my daughter girls, Tondo's. here, a graduate of my school in South. Africa. She reads every one of my book. club book picks, and I always just love. Tondo's take. Your take on this one? First of all, I'm a huge fan of Mr. Ari. Uh since American Marriage, I've read. the book 10 million times over, obsessed. Um I might be biased, but My.

Next of Kin picks some of the greatest. books I have I have read. And again, love the story about chosen family. I've. been carried on the backs of chosen. family my whole life, and so I have. great admiration and respect for the. idea that people can step in for us and. become our family um without the the. bond of blood. Um but one thing you do, and you you did. it in American Marriage as well, of. course, the the letters, and they feel. like little um memories that you almost.

want to take out the book and put back. in their original envelopes with the. torn kind of, you know? Um and I I love. the fact that you you you have us. treasure those moments and they feel so. personal when you read each of those. letters. It feels like it's coming. directly to you. You almost turn each. page excited to see did any write? Did. she write today? Um so yes, since we. have you here, I would like to know what. that structure looks like, the process.

of you choosing the letter writing and. putting us in in a memory box like that. Of course, thank you for all of you for. such. careful and generous reading. Whenever. you write a novel, you're asking so much. of a reader, so much of their time. You. know, we're all so busy and our. attention is everywhere. So, for someone. to give you the gift of their time to. read 300 pages, I would like to start by. just saying thank you for giving me that. chance. You know, I write letters. I'm a letter.

writer. And I I lament that letter. writing is, you know, we're losing it as. a cultural form. I have all the letters. My grand My grandfather lived 8 miles. from my grandmother. And just thinking. these days when people didn't have cars, that was eight walking miles. And so he courted her by letter. And we have those. You know, we have. that record. My mother has them in her. jewelry box. All It's about 50 letters. And I I hate that we don't have that.

record anymore. So, I think that's why. the letter form, you know, comes back in. my work. It's me trying to trying to. keep it alive. But also, what we share in writing. is different than what we share in. speaking. It's also different than what. we text or email. There's a certain. intentionality because you're putting it. on the page for the record. And I was. very interested in what these friends. and some other characters, what they. would say to each other on the record.

Well, you answered that question. Did. you get your question answered? So, I read that while you were a student. at Spelman College that there were two. women who had a great impact on you. Tell us about that moment. Well, I will. tell you, I went to Spelman. I was very. young. I was only 16. And I knew that I liked to. >> So, you were smart. Very smart. I I worked hard. I did. And I like to. read. I like to write. But, when I was a. girl growing up, if you like to read and. write, people did not assume that it.

meant that you were smart or that you If. you like to read, they didn't think it. meant you were intellectual. They just. thought it meant you were a nice girl. >> Yeah. >> Right? Like you were That was something. your mother didn't have to worry about. because to the best of my knowledge, you. know, no one has ever gotten pregnant in. the library. Yeah. >> [laughter]. >> I said that once and the librarian was. like, "Well, actually in the. >> [laughter]. >> in the central branch." But, I'm going. to say seldom. >> Yeah, seldom. But, when I got to Spelman College, I. met a writer and she was my teacher. Her. name is Pearl Cleage.

>> She wrote "Crazy in an Ordinary Day." Is. that right? That yes, yes. >> she's Oprah's Book Club selection. >> And I signed up for the writing class. even though I was a freshman and. freshman were not allowed to take it. I. thought that was discrimination. And I thought I should be allowed and I. didn't know you could learn writing in. the classroom. And so, I may or may not. have approximated the signature of my. advisor so that I. >> [laughter]. >> Because this was before computers, you. know. >> Yes, yeah. And so, I I took the class. and she asked me a simple question. She.

said to me, "What are you thinking about?" And I got. ready to tell her and she said, "No, don't tell me. Write it down.". And with that, she became my first. audience. She took me seriously, so I. took myself seriously. And also, I was at Spelman in I joined. Spelman College in 1987. Spelman was. founded in 1881, but it wasn't until. 1987. that Spelman College got our first black. woman president. We're a black woman's.

college. >> Dr. Johnetta Cole. >> Dr. John Nettie Cole with her big voice. >> Yes. >> And I had met her at the freshman. reception and she asked what I was. interested in and I. I just felt inspired and I said, I would. like to be a writer. And then I saw her. later on campus. This was the 80s. Remember in the 80s everyone thought. they were going to lose weight by. walking really fast and moving their. arms. Remember that? Yeah. >> Yeah, so she was doing that. And I said, "Hello." And she said in her. big voice, "Tayari, the writer.". And it was like she like she just.

touched me with that. Like I said this. was what I was going to. >> anointed you. >> Yeah, and she remembered and I had to be. make good on my word. And so then I. started thinking of myself as, "Oh, I'm. the one that's the writer.". That is great. That is so great. >> life. >> Does she know that story? She knows. that. >> does know that story and to honor her. I along with one of my college. roommates, we started a fund and we. raised a scholarship in her name called. Dream the Boldest Dreams. >> Oh, I love that. And you took an 8-year.

break between An American Marriage and K. what was happening during that time? Because we've been waiting for this. We've been waiting. >> if I would call what happened me a. break. >> [laughter]. >> I feel like in some ways it was the best. of times and it was the worst of times. In that with An American Marriage, I. don't know if you know this but it was. an Oprah's Book Club selection. Yeah. And that changed my life. It's like I. went from being a writer to being an. author. I was out promoting my book, talking about my book, doing all these. things and not having that quiet.

introspection. So that took some time. away from writing the next book, but I. don't regret it because also I was. enjoying the fruits of my labor. You. know, for the first time I was being. invited places. I was doing things. But. so many other things happened. I had a. terrible series of losses, deaths in my. life. And that grieving took me away. from the page. I had a hard time. justifying spending time in my. imagination when people around me were. hurting so much.

And then I myself I got sick. I was. getting better. I was kind of writing. and all of a sudden I had all these. myriad symptoms. I was diagnosed with an. autoimmune disorder, Graves' disease. And I like my hand was shaking. I. couldn't write. It affected my vision. I. used to didn't you know, 8 years ago I. didn't wear glasses. So I had to write. this book with um a patch over my eye. because I was seeing double and I needed. to see You wrote this book with a patch. over your eye? >> of it. Yes, with a patch over my eye.

But I had I wanted to write the book. because by then I had fallen in love. with the characters and spending time. with them was actually healing for me. And you started. while you were sick you were writing? I. was writing because also I was like I. was a couple years over my deadline. And I I had promised them a book about I. had thought I was going to write a novel. about gentrification in modern Atlanta. It's going to be super contemporary. It.

was going to be based on my neighbor I. live in a wild neighborhood, but that is. another story, but it was going to be. based on that. But I was trying to write. that, but it didn't have. the magic, the sparkle that comes from. creating. So where did this start? I I. heard that you started you call it word. doodling that you started writing this. book freehand. It's like you were. channeling it. >> the writing wasn't working when I was. trying to write the novel that I had. been contracted for. And I said, well, let me just go back to basics to paper.

and pen. Lined notebook paper, ballpoint pen, not. even fountain pen, just a ballpoint pen. And I was just writing just seeing who. was out there and I started writing. about Annie and Neecie and it was the. 50s and I said, well, maybe these are my. parents. They maybe these are my my. characters' parents. >> just shows up in your head. I'm just. >> showed in my So I said, maybe this is. backstory. Backstory is a thing. >> Okay. Yeah. And that's how I just kept. backstorying and it kept growing and. growing and then I it got to be. about page 150 and it was still like it.

wasn't even 1960 and I said, "Well, I. can't carry these people all the way to. the 2020s.". >> [laughter]. >> So, I think this could be the story and. it is the first time a story ever came. to me cuz I'm sure you talk to a lot of. writers and they say, you know, "Oh, the. story just, you know, this is what sent. to me." I always thought those people. were being dramatic. But it happened to me like this is a. story that wanted to be written. This is. a story that I was called to write and.

I could disobey that at my own peril. I. felt that if I didn't write this book, I. wouldn't write any book cuz this is what. I was meant to write and it gave me a. certain humility because it told me that. I'm not doing this by myself. I am. collaborating. When you do create creativity, it's a. collaboration with the creator. I love that. We all love that. >> [applause]. >> I mean, I just love even the title so.

much. Did you know the title in the. beginning or did you come to the title I. came to the title once it was already. the book was completely finished. I was. going to submit it. I was already. anxious cuz as I mentioned this was not. the book that you were. >> they had paid for. And I had to turn it in and I could not. turn the book in without a title. I felt. like that was like you know, just like. going out the house without your hair. done. You have to have a title on the. book. You can't just say untitled. Yes. >> And so, I read it and I thought about it. and I slept on it and I prayed on it and. I knew the title was Kin.

And so, I saved the file as Kin. and I didn't I didn't I was I submitted. this work with such uncertainty. But I just had to say this book came to. me for a reason. This title came to me. for a reason. And so, I guess when I. sent it into my publisher, it came to. them. Yes. I have to say I I I. I don't want to give any of the book. away because those of you who haven't. read it, our audience here has read it, but when you read you want you want it.

to unfold for you. So, we're not going. to give you any spoilers, but can you. give us an idea of what the plot is and. how. >> Okay. how the plot came to you. Okay. It plotted itself. You You did it. develop. >> all kind of I always know. I generally know what the book is about, but I don't know what the people are. going to do. But, this is a story of a female. friendship. And I do believe that as a. woman writer at some point female. friendship, because it's such a part of. the fabric of our lives, is a natural is.

a natural topic. >> Everybody here has a friend, right? Who's a friend? >> Everyone has a friend. >> Yeah. Yeah, and you have. >> non-females, too, right? >> [laughter]. >> They're friends since they were infants. because neither of them has a mother, although Neecie's mother is dead and. Annie's mother has abandoned her. So, Annie has hope that one day she'll see. her mother again. Neecie knows she'll. never see her mother. So, the question. is really is hope a double-edged sword. because hope's twin is disappointment.

Mhm. And their lives, you know, their. lives unfold. They take different forks. in the road. One is able to pursue. education, the other is living in. Memphis working in a bar, you know, shacking up with a piano player, but. their hearts are still connected. They. are still dearest friends and this. really I think about also maintaining. your friendships despite the fact that. your lives are different. Different. lives don't mean that you necessarily. have different hearts. And you cannot. mistake your life for your heart. Those.

are different things. Wow. Why did you. choose this time in in in American. history because it's in the it's set in. the 1950s and the 1960s, the dialogue, the the sights, the smells, all of it. Well, I was curious about growing up in. the wake of the civil rights movement. because my mother. when my mother was 15 years old, she. participated in a sit-in movement in. Oklahoma City. For 2 years, my mother, her sister, and. some other children that went to their. school the whole summer they sat in at a.

drug counter drugstore counter and. during the school year, they did it on. the weekends and it was just a part of. the fabric of their lives. Part of what. I did in this book was really to try to. get to know my own mother better by. thinking about the circumstances under. which she came of age. It helped me. understand the way our lives are the. same and the ways that our lives are. different. >> Wow. And I love this this this page 11. just it spoke to me so profoundly. While. I was tended to, I was never mothered.

Still the hole in my spirit made me into. the girl I was and then the woman that I. am. One day I will grow a person within. myself and love that little person so. hard that it would bind her to me like. rich dirt in the corner of a canvas. satchel. And you're crying. Why are you. crying? Cuz that was your line, too? Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. We we lost our mom when we were. younger. So it really spoke It spoke to.

you, too. Yeah. Let's let's talk about. it. Yeah, I. I can't believe how well and accurately. you captured the experience of. >> [snorts]. >> what it's like to be a girl without a. mom and every line like that line. was like, yep, my reality. That's my. reality. That's my reality. And so it. didn't feel even sad. It felt normal. reading it. Yeah. And um felt normal and. seen and heard like someone else knows.

my story. Yes. Even to say that you. accompanied these girls through the. story was like, "Oh, like you. accompanied me through just the. witnessing is so powerful. So, one of the themes that really stood. out to me is this tension between. survival. and belonging and how you have to. sacrifice part of who you are in order. to fit in because it's not just a being. seen and known kind of thing, but a am I.

going to be safe and cared for and. protected type of thing. Mhm. So, what. was it that you were hoping that people. would take away from that tension of. when do I. when do I sacrifice myself in order to. fit in or when do I protect myself in. order to survive? Thank you first off for for sharing your. experience. I think that we believe that we have to. sacrifice more than we actually have to. sacrifice in order to fit in.

You know, a lot of times I think that we. capitulate in advance. Like we. anticipate that we will not be safe. Like I think that um Niecy ex- doesn't. believe she'll be safe in telling her. truth, but she does not know that. Like. that is a risk. I think everyone should. take the risk of the truth because you. may be accepted and you don't know it. because you're afraid. And so that to me. is what I the dignity is in the truth. And I think that that's the thing we.

have to we we think we think we can live. without dignity. You know, we think I'll. do this to survive. The like dignity is. a luxury, but dignity is not a luxury. and you only get it by being your. authentic self. I think that's one of. the takeaways and the other takeaway is. I really hope that we can stop being so. tied to the question of biology. The question of biology is something. that is decided for us before we're even. born. Like none of us chose our. families. And we as adults, we as.

full human beings should have the right. to create a family that works for us. I'm not saying that your chosen family. has to replace your family family. You. can have both, but not to feel like this. accident of birth is the determining. factor in your life. That you can be. loved by someone else, even if it's not. your biological mother, your biological. father. Someone else's love can be just. as significant if you let it. Like Annie is so committed to the idea. of blood. that she cannot experience the other.

love that's around her. But it was right. there in front of her. >> was right there, but her commitment to. the I It's an idea. Like they said, you. know, you can And then he eventually. says he he cannot be seen anymore. because she's she's chasing the thing. that's already there. >> is never a good idea. It's never. Yes. Yes. You've said that writing this. novel gave you a deeper understanding of. your your own mother. Um. Did it also give you a deeper. understanding of yourself?

Absolutely, because I came to I came to. understand in writing about this. previous generation. just how how their experiences were so. different than our own. Like there's. some things that, you know, I like kind. of blamed my mom for like not. understanding my life, and I realize. now, how could she understand my life? She grew up in a different world. She. was born in 1943. How is she meant I mean, the nature of. progress is such that we are each in our. modern lives living unprecedented lives.

And you cannot expect other people to. imagine the nuances of our unprecedented. lives. And that's what I really came to see. that people do the best they can with. the experiences that they have. And you have to give them some grace. and credit for how hard they tried. Wow, that is such wisdom. And I love how you. turn a phrase like my on page 20 you. say, "My mother, rough as an emery. board, looks like she was born to die. Yeah, poor Hattie. Yeah. How did you I.

mean, so as you're thinking of my mother. is rough or my mother is. you know, challenged or my mother how does that. come to you? Rough as an emery board. Some of them come to me right away, but. other times once I'm in the zone like. when I'm in the zone of a book, if I. touch something rough, I'll become more. aware that I've I'm like that's rough. I. should use that somewhere. Like if I'm. in the mode I'm looking for I'm looking. for metaphors. I'm looking for. metaphors. But we also have metaphors.

and symbols. you know, all over our lives. But when. I'm in the zone, I hear things. everywhere like I'll hear a song lyric. and it'll remind me of something in the. book or. I also think of ways how am I similar to. my characters. I can never write about a. character who has experience any The. book is not autobiographical. None of my. books are autobiographical, but I have. experienced every emotion my characters. have experienced. Mhm. >> And I'm a more aware of my emotions and.

how they feel and where they manifest in. my body as I write. I love page 94. Me. and Niecy weren't sisters and nowhere. near twins. I didn't have what she got. nor the other way round. What you have. the same isn't what binds you. Hearts. grow strings because of what you know. that's the same. What happened to you. that's the same and when what you want. is the same. Yes. That's what you're saying. You've. already experienced what these. characters have experienced in one form. or another. Yes, and I mean and even.

when they've done things that are. shameful or embarrassing, I have to. remember and it also makes you humble in. writing cuz you are not some perfect. figure moving the people around making. them do what you think they should or. punishing them for being naughty. That's. you have to really think about the times. when you were not in the right. And how it felt to you and that you're. still a good person, then they too can. be good people. They don't have to do. everything right to be worthy.

of story. Breanna, where are you? Hello. >> Hi. Yeah, so I just wanted to say that this. book felt tangible. I felt like I could. touch it, I could hear it, I could taste. it, I could smell it. It felt less like. fiction and more like a real account of. something that happened in the lives of. my great-grandmothers, my grandmothers, even my mother. Um and it really resonated with me um.

Annie and Bernice's predicament because. I also lost my mother as well. And even. their friendship resonated with me. because I had a classmate who also lost. her mother and father that took me under. her wing after she found out about my. mother's passing and really helped me. through. Um I identify with Bernice's desire to. be like Mrs. McHenry. um and her desire to break barriers. um and create a different life for.

herself and her children and her. children's children. Um and in doing that, sometimes you feel. like you need to separate yourself from. certain people or certain environments. um so that you don't get pulled back. into a place that you're trying so hard. to escape from. My question to you is. um. could Bernice possibly have set better. boundaries? Was she supposed to? Would.

that have saved her and Annie in the. long run? I think. First off, my condolences to you and. your mama. Thank you. I just I I felt it. when you said that. I think that. you have to set boundaries with people. that are toxic. Annie is not toxic, she's poor. And you can't cut people off for being. poor. because they don't have the. opportunities that you have.

She's Annie is a good friend to her. And Annie needed her help. And you have. to help those who need your help if. they're your friends, if you're close. And part of reaching across these. differences in their lives are. remembering what this friendship means. I don't think she should have had I. think her mother-in-law who's saying, you know, you keep the people you used. to know far away from you. And she tells. her how she even pushed her sister away. I think that was a mistake. You know, if you have a good. relationship with your sister, I don't.

want I don't want a life that tells me I. can't love the people I love. And I. think that is the generational progress. that I think that Bernice will make and. that Mrs. McKendrick is saying, you have. to cut off your past. And I think. Bernice says, or not. I'm not going to cut her off. I love. her. And I think that's important that. we have to figure out ways to integrate. the people we love into the lives we. want. Or else you're choosing between. who do you who you love and your. ambition. And you shouldn't have to and.

you don't have to. You just have to be. I think you just have to be flexible and. open. Well, Leslie and Dr. Kelly, thank you so. much for that for sharing that. Leslie. and Dr. Kelly and our audience, um they've been friends since they were. 4 years old, did I hear? Friends since 4. years old. Tell us your story. Stand up, guys. Hi, ladies. Hi. So, yes, we have been. friends since we were 4 and 5 years old. And our parents were members of a black. social club, the Consorts. White dresses.

all the way down. >> [laughter]. >> Yeah. And much like Niecy and Annie, we. disconnected in our teenage years, but. 25 years ago we were reconnected when my. aunt was battling pancreatic cancer and. Kelly was on her rotation. So she walked us through the transition. and we have been thick as thieves ever. since sister friends reunited. >> Ever since and we've gone the last 25. years we've gone through the ups and. downs, couple of marriages, couple of. divorces.

>> [laughter]. >> And all the stuff in between and one of. the things that really resonated with me. about Annie and Niecy's story is how. childhood wounds can. you know, they can't help but to. affect us in our lives but sisterhood. can really heal us if we let it, you. know. >> Uh so we collaborated on this question. and you know, when you think about how. women sustain friendships over over.

decades, right? Over over time and. distance and failures and successes and. loves. etc. What would you like for readers to take. away? >> Yeah, what do you want all of us to take. away from the relationship between Niecy. and Annie that we can bring to our. relationships? I think the main thing is to honor your. relationships. Your friendships are as. important as your romantic relationships. and they're as important as any other.

relationship in your life and also may. last longer because they can start when. you're. >> Absolutely. Well, also they also they. get started [laughter] early earlier. also but. >> What you say Gayle? >> [laughter]. >> But this person who is seeing you grow. and there is more of an expectation of. acceptance among friends. Like your friend is not going to get mad. at you because you look different as you. get older. You know, like that's that's. just not how friendships work. There is. a more of um an expectation of an.

unconditional acceptance. Yes. And I. think that's the thing though is to. nurture your friendships and value your. friends. So many people, you know people. like this, throw their friends away when. other circumstances in their lives. change. >> Can't do it. And that your friends are. your greatest resource. I think that's. what I would take away. Well, I was. going to ask you, what did you take. away? What did you take away? Uh. well, I. This was just an amazing book for me. I.

took away it it made me call all my. friends, actually, and say, "You know. what? I'm just calling you cuz I love. you. You know, I'm just calling you cuz, you know, you're on my mind." Um and it. just it took it made me take away the. the the value and it made me appreciate. the value, like you said, of of. sisterhood and friendship and really. what that means throughout our lives, you know, we were different people when. we were 4 and 5 years old. We were. different people when we were teenagers.

and we're different people now, but we. still have the same friendship. >> Yeah. And for me, it was taking away the. affirming the belief of knowing and. being known, the two most important. boxes in our human experience, and that. we can choose the people who know us and. we still have a call to share who we are. with those that we come in contact with. So, it just felt so life-affirming and. and hopeful. even in the end.

Well, thank you. Thank you. Leslie and. Dr. Kelly, thank you. Friends since you. were four. Let's hear from Golda. >> [applause]. >> Golda, what do you want to say? >> Hi. I'm right here. Thank you so much, Oprah, and thank you, Iyanla, for this. book. Um I relate very, very closely to. the characters in the book. My father. was killed when I was a year old, and so. I know that sense of longing that comes. with losing a parent and wanting to know. them, what they sounded like, what their. laugh was like, how they walked. And so, my question is about that. In the book,

we see the characters being mothered by. people who aren't their mothers. And in. my life I had father figures step in to. fill the gaps that my father left. behind. But I've always wondered, was I. fathered? Uh is it possible to be mothered by. someone who isn't your mother? Or is it. just a substitute and never really the. real thing? You know, I think that no one can ever compare to. the imaginary parent in your mind. And so no real person can fill the gap.

of that imaginary person. That's one of. the things I was working on in the book, how how how. >> smart. I do my best. I do my. >> Yeah. But you know, I think about how. that's why I have also many people. saying to Annie, "Listen, Annie, I have. a mother and it's not what you think it. is.". >> Yes. That she has and she keep reminding of. that, but she is so stubborn. She always. says, "You know, they keep telling me. that I um I shouldn't look for my. mother, but they have a mother. They. don't know." But they're saying,

"Actually, we have a mother, so we do. know.". >> We do know. And I think that that is. what's important, is to don't let an. imaginary person. dominate your life and keep you from. having the satisfaction and completion. that is available from real people. But. real people have flaws. Wow, thank you so much for that. Thank. you. Thank you, Golda. Uh there's a beautiful passage about. love that you write where you say, "We. come to love people in many ways. Much. is made of the burning love that hits.

like a smoldering remnant of a star. hurled down to Earth." I wouldn't know. How long it take to write that sentence? Yet this is not the only type of love. any more than the camellia is the only. flower. There is the love that blooms. from decency and from that love, passion. I I do believe that. I think that real. Again, this burning love that's like a.

you know, a star hurled from the. heavens. That's that imaginary person. That's that imaginary person. But real. people can win you over in a lot of ways. and we're can be so married to this. other script. >> Love that blooms from decency and from. that love passion. >> Yes, and you can passion can develop. I. think we think oh well, if you don't. feel it that first day is never going to. be there or it's not there. But I think. that Neesee with her experience of loss, she is open to different types of love. She even says I think of another. character of Joette that only she that's.

privileged that makes you think you can. only be happy if things work out exactly. the way you wanted them to. But there's. a range of happiness and if you can. accept that there's a range, there's a. way higher chance that you'll find it. How does each How does writing a a book. like this. open up the aperture of your own life? What happens after you have finished. this writing and you send it off to your. publisher and you know that you are. done?

Do you feel more expanded in ways that. you were before you wrote? I feel like. every novel I've written has made me. more understanding of other people. because I have to walk in their shoes. I. never write about any character that I. dislike. I have to It has to be something about. them that I feel. establishes their humanity and makes me. understand their other person's point of. view even if I completely disagree with. them. Like it was difficult for me.

you know, to write from the point of. view of a madam in a whorehouse. Like. that was very difficult for me to write. cuz. I But we ended up having compassion for. her. >> Yes, we did end up having compassion for. her, but we still had Baby Doll pulling. us pulling our. our him saying yeah, but don't forget. what she does for a living. So, but I was able to understand the way. that she understood herself. I think. that's the key and I try. and I try to apply that to other people. around me. I was able to understand the. way she understood herself. Yeah, and.

that's the important thing. I imagine. that the characters are reading the. book. People say to me what's who's your. audience and the audience of the. characters themselves and I want each of. them to feel like I did right by them. And you did. And you did. There's a running theme. throughout the book that women have to. sacrifice in some way themselves in. order to survive. What is your point of. view on that? I mean I do think that I mean sacrifice.

that just sounds so like I don't know. almost like you know like in those like. something someone's going to do at an. altar they're going to be like a. sacrifice. But I do think you have to. compromise. Give up some things. Yeah, you have to compromise. But everyone to. be in a relationship is by its nature a. compromise. The thing is that you have to be in a. situation where everyone involved. everyone is compromising. And the. problem comes in when only one person is. compromising. And I perhaps that's when. it becomes a sacrifice. But that's the thing like Annie. compromises.

to be in Niecy's wedding and Niecy has. to compromise to remain friends with. Annie. Like they have to give. You have. to give but you long as you get it's. okay to give. >> Well, I'm not going to give away any of. the ending but I mean by the time you. get to the end you are really like on. the edge of your seat. It is. yes when you get there. I was stressed. as well. Were you stressed as well? Like. toward the very end I was not sleeping. I had moved out of I have this like this.

really cozy writing room with like a. fluffy chair. It's so cute. But toward. the end I had to move out of the cute. cozy room and move downstairs to the. basement to what I call the situation. room because the story got the story got. deep. I had to like get down there. This. was not a fluffy sock moment. >> none of us reading it expected it to. take us there. >> Me either. You either. I I was like, oh, that's ooh. Yeah, that's how that went down. But, I feel that when I get to the end,

I look back at it, I can find. places, clues I had left myself that I. didn't even see. Oh, I love that. Places, clues that you. didn't even see. >> like, oh, oh, oh. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. That's how I feel. But, I. I I I finished it on a plane. Actually, the very final paragraph or two was. written on a plane. I was on my way back. from London, and I burst into tears. I.

just burst into tears, and the lady. beside me, she burst into tears, but she. was drinking. And. >> [laughter]. >> And the flight attendant said, you are. both cut off. Which I did not think was right, but it. was fine. We were almost there. >> [laughter]. >> But, I I was moved by it. I I I I was. moved. And I was grateful that this story had. been entrusted to me. Well, you know what is amazing, too, is. that the cover is also so intriguing.

When I walked in and saw this cover, I. went, "Wow! What's the story behind the. cover?" I love the cover. It This was. like the sixth cover they came up with. As a matter of fact, that is why I was. in New York because I had expressed my. concern about the earlier [laughter]. covers, and I came to New York because I. wanted to show them that I was a sane. person, that I was a sane and friendly. person. And right before I I got to the. offices, they sent me this cover, and I. felt seen. I was like, yes, this is the.

story. This is the honeysuckle from. their hometown. I love that the word kin. is so big. I like the flowers. I like. the softness, the softness of it because. so often black women's lives are not. associated with softness. And so I. appreciate us owning those flowers and. that word chin. Did y'all find this book at least a. little bit funny? I thought it was a. little bit funny. Every reference to trifling. >> [laughter].

>> Every reference to trifling, yes. I. thought it was funny a lot. I thought. their entire experience at the brothel. was was pretty funny. Yes, yes, yes. I. thought that was pretty funny. >> I got the idea for the the brothel? >> How? I was in Pompeii. Did you know they. had a lot of brothels in Pompeii? I did. not know this. >> Yes, it's like a whole thing. Like like. how we have CVS's, they have brothels. >> [laughter]. >> And the tour guide just offhandedly said. that the the place where the brotheling. took place was uncomfortable on purpose.

so that the people would leave. Really? >> Yes, they did not want you, you know, spending too much time lingering. And. they would And I said, "That is so. interesting." And the next thing I knew, the when I sat down to write, there it. was. >> It showed up. >> It showed up. And so are you you were. saying that when you're in the zone, when you touch something and it's rough, or when you're in the zone, things come. it sounds like at a higher vibration, higher frequency. >> it in a different way. Like it almost. feels like there's an echo when when the.

when the man said, "This is a brothel.". It's almost like I heard brothel, brothel, brothel. >> [laughter]. >> And I was ready to go. I didn't need to. see anything else. I felt like you've. seen a little bit of Pompeii, you've. seen enough. I need to get home and work. on my book. >> your book And write your book. And write. your book. And so as a writer, have you. always been in observant mode? Do you. think you see the world differently than. the rest of us because you're always. looking for the story? I don't know if I see the world.

differently, but I think I do something. different with what I do see. You know, I write in my journal every. morning, no matter where I am. If I. don't have it with me, I'm I'm. frustrated and sad, and I might just jot. down a little something on the notepad. in the room. So, for me, it's almost like if I don't write it, I. I haven't fully thought about it. So, even when I wasn't writing the book. in all that time, I was writing other. stuff that didn't end up being in the. book. >> So, is it like a muscle for you? It's.

like keeping the muscle trained. I I don't think about trained because. it's not painful in that way. I think. it's just almost like one of the things. that I do to stay whole is that I do. this that I do this writing. It does take discipline, yes, but it. also when I don't do it, I can tell. there's a difference in the way that I'm. moving in the world. I'm I'm I'm less. happy. I don't feel like I have purpose. in the same way, and I wonder like what. am I what am I doing?

But, when I'm writing, I know what I'm doing, and I know why. I'm doing it, and I feel so fortunate. that I figured out that I wanted to. write when I was such a little child. that I I just feel blessed to have. always known what my passion was. And I. do feel that if I don't almost like if I. don't use it, perhaps. like like it'll be like in the like in. the book with Isaiah and Sweet when he. feels like my gift has been taken. I. feel like if I don't use it in the way.

it's meant to be used, that perhaps I'll. no longer be blessed with it. Like you. have to be responsible with this gift. you have. Wow. Well, you are a blessing. to us. You are blessing to us. Tayari. Jones, thank you for this really. >> Thank [applause] you. >> [cheering]. >> Magnificent. novel. >> It's magnificent. Kin is available wherever books are. sold, and I recommend getting a copy for. your best friend, too, or your next of.

kin, and read it together. I'm telling. you cuz you're not going to want to give. up your copy. So. Thank you everybody. Toya Rajohns and. Ken. >> [applause]. >> So good. [cheering] Thank you. You can. subscribe to the Oprah podcast on. YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple. Podcasts, or wherever you listen. I'll. see you next week. Thanks everybody.