Start with Yourself: A New Vision for Work & Life with Emma Grede and Oprah

And here's the thing, I've wrote this. book, is dismantling the rules [music]. that we've all been sold around these. things. I honestly believe that we need, desperately need, more women in. positions of power right now. And. [music] so I look at this and I say, "Do. you know what? If you are an ambitious. woman, it is going to require some. discomfort. If you want money, >> [music]. >> it's going to require some level of. audacity. If you want a big, big career, >> [music]. >> you're going to need visibility and. proximity." If, and it's not for. everybody, but if you want a family,

it's going to require [music] some. timing and it's probably not what we've. been told. And if you want power, then. you are going [music] to need to take it. because nobody is coming to give you. power. And just like I said, we are. desperate in this world for more women. in positions of power right now. Hey there, everybody. Glad to be with. you here on the Oprah podcast. My guest. is not just an entrepreneur, not just a. businesswoman. She is an inspiring. force, a modern-day business mogul and.

visionary. And she's written a book. called Start With Yourself. It's a new. vision for work and life, and it should. be your guide if you are starting a. business, thinking about starting a. business, already in a business, want to. make a better business for yourself, and. want to be a better person in that. business. I highly recommend Start With. Yourself, honey. Please welcome Emma. Grede to the podcast. Hi, Emma. >> Oh, hi, Oprah. I am so happy to be here.

I can't even tell you how happy I am. Forbes named [music] Emma Grede one of. America's wealthiest self-made women at. just 40 years old. A wife and mother to. four, she's worked with both Loewe and. Kim Kardashian to co-found. culture-defining global brands like. [music] Good American and Skims, now. valued at $5 billion. She offers savvy business [music] advice. on her podcast Aspire with Emma Grede. Put yourself in the position of your. customers and just listen to [music]. your intuition. It will never serve you.

wrong. She's also the first black female. investor on that ABC hit show Shark. Tank. I I and I've been toying in my. head, I'm like, "Do I call her Ms. Winfrey. >> me Oprah. Then I thank thank. >> to call me Oprah. >> Okay, well, I'm. >> Because I was reading in your book and I. was so touched every time I saw my name. where you would say, "And I'd go home. and I'd watch Oprah." I mean, really, thank you so much. Thank you so much. >> you. You have And listen, I know that. every time somebody meets you, they have. this kind of explosive reaction to you. And so I'm like, "What.

What do you like What do you do? What do. you say that she hasn't heard before?". And I'm not trying to say anything you. haven't heard before. For me, there is nobody else that I would rather. sit and discuss this book with because. you have been in my mind as my fantasy. mentor since I was 10 years old. And. it's the truth because I had no other. example of a woman that. that was like you, that had that level. of integrity and spoke like that and. behaved in a way. And so I feel like I.

have tried my best to emulate some of. the behaviors that I saw in you for the. longest time. >> Yeah, and I as I'm reading the book, I. see some of my teachings. I see that. I. say, "Oh, you're one of those students. who paid attention.". >> I did. I really did in in the most in. the biggest and the smallest ways, you. know, from thinking about gratitude to. thinking about how you speak to people. and what energy is that you give off. And so for me, it's really been in so. many so many ways.

>> Yeah, you tell the story in the book. about yelling at a deaf woman. Tell us. that story. >> Oh, so that's where we're starting. >> want to start there, but because you. said about the energy, that is such a. classic energy story. >> Okay, so let let me tell you the truth. of this is, and you will I mean, my. publisher from Shannon from Simon and. Schuster will tell you this. I took that. out of the book three times for one. reason, because I said, "If I ever get. to meet Oprah, I know that she will pick up this. story.". >> And when I spoke to your producers, I.

was like, "No, no." And I took it out. and they said, "You've got to put it. back in. You've got to put it back in.". >> it because it's so revealing, so. truthful, and it is a story of you. recognizing. in your own self-awareness that I need. to do better. So that's why that's why I. love the story. >> So here's the story. The story goes like. many people, I got up every morning and. went to work on the tube, on the train. And I'm at the turnstiles, and you know, it's like I grew up in a place where my. learned default emotion was anger. Mhm.

Whatever was happening, whatever. wouldn't go my way, I would turn to. anger. And so on this particular. morning, I was frustrated because, you. know, this woman was messing around in. her bag and I was like in that mode of. let you let me just get to work. And I. said, "Excuse me, excuse me, excuse me.". And when I screamed, "Excuse me," she. said, "I'm partially deaf.". And I shot this woman and asked her, "Well, are you blind, too?" And I moved. her and I went down the escalators and I. got on the train. And I am so filled. with shame as I even recount the story.

But it was in that moment that I. thought, "Oh my goodness, you have to. get a grip of yourself. You are never. going to go where you want to be if this. is the way that you behave." And so I. immediately enrolled myself into like a. community anger management program. >> program. >> I knew and I stayed in that program for. a long time. But I'd never been taught. that you could get a grip of yourself. I'd never really understood that you. could go inside yourself. >> that way. You don't have to immediately. react just because something is.

happening. >> beginning of me understanding. the level of power that I held within. myself because I was like, "I don't need. to be like that. I don't like her. I. don't want to be her and I have a. choice.". >> Well, you know, lots of people I I've. seen, particularly people of wealth and. means, yell at their staff, yell at. other people, yell when somebody's in. their way, walking through life. expecting everybody to adhere to. whatever is going on with them. But they.

seem to have no recognition of it. That's why I thought this was such an. important story that in the moment you. realized this isn't the person I want to. be. >> Yeah. So that means it's possible for. anybody to do that. Yes. You're. absolutely right. And I think the. important thing to say is that it. doesn't go away. And there's a part of. me, Oprah, that actually has appreciated. some of the aggression that lives inside. me because I think it's part of, and. this is going to sound crazy, but a. little bit of part of what's made me. successful. You know, I did the Hoffman. process Uh.

>> I don't know, four years ago. >> Mhm. And you know, you know enough about. the Hoffman, but for anybody listening, you know, you're you're retraining your. learned patterns that you learned as a. child. >> on it. >> And and I listened to it. And now that. was after I went, so it was so nice to. have that perspective. But you know, I. um I remember saying to them like, "Don't don't take that all out of me. because I need a little bit of that.". But it's understanding that that doesn't. have to be the default. And a big part. of what I write about in this book is. being a woman and having your emotions.

guide your decision-making is a really. kind of like low vibrational place to. be. That's right. And if you are going. to, you know, live up to your highest. self as, you know, you have always said, then that can't be the way you make your. decisions. Well, in Start With Yourself, which is just such a perfect title, when. did you know that that was the title? >> [laughter]. >> I love that you say that. My working. title was Without Apology, and I decided. that that couldn't possibly be the title. because it gives you the connotation. that you need to some there's something.

to apologize for. >> And so to me, Start With Yourself was. everything because it's about not. blaming anything that's happening on the. outside and knowing that everything that. you do, all the success that you have, and all the hardships that you have, and. the way that you choose to walk through. the world, it all starts with yourself. So when I landed it, I was like, "That's. it. That's the one." And I like the way. [clears throat] it looks, you know, on. >> and I love the way it looks. [laughter]. And and I love the way you designed the. book. I love the. >> nice? >> It's very nice. Beautiful fabric. >> Beautiful People say you can't judge a. book by cover, but yeah, you can.

>> Yes, you can. Yeah, yeah, you can. >> introduced me to this book, and as soon. as she dropped it off, I went, "I love. this book.". >> Chic. >> [laughter]. >> Very chic. It can sit in your beautiful. surroundings. >> right. And it goes with everything. Yeah, I don't want my face on there, either. Excellent. Excellent. Excellent. I love when you say this in the book, "If a fortune teller had taken a look at. my destiny when I was growing up, she. would have predicted I'd become a DJ's. girlfriend or a footballer's side piece. or marry a gangster. That seems to be. the predetermined path for all the women.

in my life, women who put everyone ahead. of their own dreams." So how did you. manage to pivot around the life that you. saw had been prescribed for you? How did. How. How did that come about? You know, I was. a real dreamer, and I've always been in. my head. And I would have what I now. know are, you know, visualizations. I don't think. I thought about it that way when I was a. kid, but I'm I'm somebody that could. take themselves off into a dream. And. then, you know, when I was a kid, I used. to be obsessed with fashion magazines.

But I would take myself into the. magazine, like into the show, into the. advertising campaign. And I would create. collages and I would imagine my life if. it weren't in Plasto, if it weren't. where I grew up. And I just knew that I. could do better. I knew that the sadness. and the heaviness around me wasn't my. destiny. I I I I don't know what it was, >> inside yourself. >> I knew it. I was like, "This is I'm not. supposed to be here.". >> why I appreciated your book so much.

because I start started to feeling that. around 4 years old in rural Mississippi. You just feel like this is not going to. be my life, and I don't know how. So. you're having a moment. You are having a. moment. You're you're like a. history-making turn as the first black. female shark on ABC's Shark Tank, and. your podcast Aspire is just really. resonating with so many thousands of. people. You're co-creator of these. powerhouse fashion brands like Skims and. Good American. Do you think that you.

manifested this moment through your own. strategy or something else happening? Like I've said many times, God can dream. a bigger dream. The life force. has dreamed a bigger dream for you than. you did even for yourself. What is. happening? >> It's actually an interesting way to look. at it and I think about it as a. combination of all of those things. You. know, my strong belief is that. you can't manifest your way alone into. anything. Manifestation has to meet. really hard work and I have been in. practice to be the type of woman that I.

wanted to be since I was 10 years old. Whether that was emulating you or it was. just getting up and delivering those. papers. I wanted to be somebody that was. going in a different direction to what I. saw around me and so I think it's a. combination of putting myself in. really difficult situations, honestly. You know, because I've been in places. where, you know, my first apartment, I. didn't have a fridge, I didn't have a. way to cook. And so I used to put, you. know, the milk on the balcony, but I.

knew that if I didn't, you know, if I. didn't live there, I wouldn't be able to. get to college. And if I didn't get to. this college, then I wouldn't be able. to, you know, have the type of job and. work experience that I want. So. everything has led to something and I. think I've been planned and purposeful. about all of my moves. I've always. thought. >> Planned and purposeful. Yes. All the. time. You know, we recently did Jim. Collins on the show. Jim Collins who did. Good to Great and now he has another. book called What to Make of a Life. And. in that book, he talks about that it's. not necessarily what you're good at, but.

what you're encoded for. And so when I. started to read your read your book, I. thought you were encoded to become the. woman that you are now. You were encoded. for entrepreneurship. You were encoded. with a business mind. What do you What. do you think that is? I totally. agree with you because I think that, you. know, I grew up I'm the eldest of four. girls and my mom, you know, raised us as. a single mom. And for so many people, that could have felt like hardship. For. me, it felt like this is the baseline of.

what I can tolerate. Like at 10 years. old, I could cook a meal for those kids. and I could iron all their school shirts. and make their packed lunches and just. get everything. >> Because you were the oldest, you were. responsible for taking care of the rest. of the kids while your mom was working. Yeah, my mom was working. It's like my. mom's the dad, I'm the mom and we've got. three kids together. That's the dynamic. of my family. And love it or loathe it, but that's that's the way it is. But to. me, I built like such resilience from a. young age. And so when I think about.

where I come from, which is this place. in East London where you had to be so. truthful. You had to make sure that. whatever you said you were going to do. There was this like moral baseline of. the place that was an expectation of how. you should behave. And that set me up to. be the type of businesswoman that I am. And so I do think that I've been coded. from a young age and all of these. experiences. And I think the important. thing is that. >> Don't you feel. Don't you feel this that that nothing. was wasted? That. even that time with being the older.

sister and taking care of the family, that all of that has now come into play. now. 1 million percent. And I mean, the. important part is that my mindset never. saw it as something that was. dragging me down. I was like, oh, I'm. just going to stand on all of these. things. Like I'm a tough girl. I have a. thick skin. How else can I use that. thick skin? And in the introduction, you. write, "All women are exhausted. While. it's very easy and we see this all over. our culture to blame men and inequitable. systems, that's not how I roll." You. say. You say,

"Nothing is fair. It's true, but I don't. have time to wait for equity. I'd rather. make it. I take full responsibility for. my life and I create my own future. regardless of what comes back." And I. want to ask, how do you take radical. ownership of our lives without. gaslighting ourselves or dismissing very. real barriers that we know exist? How do. you hold both truths at the same time? The important thing to know is that two. things can be true at the same time. >> That the system may not be fair, but you.

did not let that determine the size of. your future. 1 million percent. Because. that is the truth that we all live in, right? We know that the system is not. made for us. And if you ask me, I think. about women as the greatest untapped. power resource in the world. That's how. I think about women. And when I wrote. this book, I wanted to write something. that was. almost like uh you know, like a. a thing for ambitious women to be able.

to hold in their hands and realize that. power. I thought to myself that I could, based on my experience, that if you want. money and you want power and you want a. great career, my experience tells me. that you can't hide any of that behind. politeness. You can't hide that behind. soft ambition. And I think that as. women, we are kind of culturally. programmed to avoid. >> To act like you don't want that. Yeah, we we we like and to avoid the behaviors.

that lead to creating wealth, that lead. to power. And here's the thing, I wrote. this book is dismantling the rules that. we've all been sold around these things. I honestly believe that, you know, we. need, desperately need, more women in. positions of power right now. And so I. look at this and I say, "Do you know. what? If you are an ambitious woman, it. is going to require some discomfort. If. you want money, it's going to require. some level of audacity. If you want a. big big career, you're going to need. visibility and proximity. If, and it's.

not for everybody, but if you want a. family, it's going to require some. timing and it's probably not what you. what we've been told. And if you want. power, then you are going to need to take it. because nobody is coming to give you. power. And just like I said, we are. desperate in this world for more women. in positions of power right now. I love. you. One of my one of my You have all. these girls that I put through school in. South Africa. A lot of them came to the. United States and I remember one of my. daughter girls, I call them, had. graduated from USC and was fortunate.

enough to get a job right out of college. working as an architect. And 4 months. in, she calls me and says, complaining. because there's no work-life balance. And I did not do any gentle parenting. I. said, "Girl, you better get off this. phone." And I know recently. Uh-oh. You made waves You made waves You. made waves when you said in an interview. [laughter]. that work-life balance is your problem. Yeah. That's yours to figure out. And a lot of people didn't like that,

but tell us your take on work-life. balance. >> Well, here's the thing. Let's talk about. why a lot of people didn't like it. They. didn't like it because it kind of hit. home in this way. And actually, I would. go one step further. I actually think. that work-from-home culture Yeah. is. killing life and it's career suicide. That's seriously how I feel about it. And yeah, I really do because if you. look at some of the kind of like broader. cultural trends, marriage decline, uh. the decline in birth rates, like the. loneliness epidemic, you cannot like.

have meaningful connection with people. on a Zoom call. You don't get seen and. promoted from your living room. You. can't be like, you know, a good flirt in. a bad outfit on a Zoom like because no. one's getting dressed to. >> [laughter]. >> Do you know what I mean? But I'm serious. about this. When you go out in the. world, you meet people, you spark. connections, you might see a, you know, a cute person that you vibe with. Like. we need to be in person, not just for. our professional lives, but for our. personal lives. And so when I speak. about work-life balance, it's because.

people have made it this default excuse. that they should stay away from life. And I'm like, that is so sad. I met my. husband at work, my best friends at. work. I've had some of the best nights. of my life after, you know, great days. at work. And so I feel like we kind of. made the office and work this enemy. And. to me, when you're living a purposeful. life and you're doing something great. with your life, the two things. intermingle. I'm not so stupid to think. that everybody has a job that they love, but I just don't think that we should.

think about work as some kind of enemy. It just isn't. And you and your husband, Jens, are business partners. >> We are. And you have four children. So. how did you move from not only working. relationship to romantic relationship, but how do you navigate family and. business? I mean, I just marvel, first. of all, at any woman who is working. outside the home, comes home, has to do. all the mothering. I never had children, even though people were saying, and one.

of the reasons I didn't have children is. because I knew I couldn't do both well. And people would say to me, "Well, you. have this entire studio. You could build. your own nursery." I thought, "Well, they'll just be in the nursery and I'll. be over here.". And [laughter] and And Tara Montgomery. who produces this podcast and has been a. producer for me for over 30 years, has. five kids. I don't know how she does it. I don't know how you do it. How do you. navigate family and business? Can you. turn off your business mind when you get. home and be fully present for your kids?

>> So here's The answer is yes, I can. But. I also think that the question really. ought to be. how have we made it so that. the two things are unfathomable. That. it's unfathomable to think about. somebody that can kill it at work and. kill it as a mom. In my view, I think. the idea of what it means to be a. mother, specifically, not a father, has. gone nuts. Like this idea of. performative parenting. That I need to. make a lunch and all the, you know, sandwiches need to be in stars and it,

you know, needs to be on the Instagram. No, I don't do any of that. So two two. ways I want to answer your question. >> Yeah, and you have no guilt about that. Zero. Because my kids don't need that. from me. My kids need love and they need. a certain amount of attention, but that. doesn't require 8 hours with them. It's. probably like 20 minutes per kid per. day, if I'm honest. I don't do every. school drop-off, but I'm there when my. kids need me. If my kid's in an art show. or, you know, running a race, I am. there. But I don't partake in this idea.

that I'm supposed to usher my kids. through life And that you're supposed to. be there for everything. >> No, I'm just not because here's the. thing, my kids are learning what it is. to live up to the expectations of your. own life. They see me go out and chase. my dreams, and I want them to do that. for themselves. But I do think that we. put ourselves in a position right now. where the idea of what it means and what. it takes to be a parent is so. insurmountable that women are running. themselves in circles. You don't need to. do that. You don't need to do that.

>> need to do that. And how did you learn. that? Or did you just always know it. because of the way you were raised? >> on the first kid and. >> [laughter]. >> No, the truth of it is that I wasn't. raised like that. You know, I saw my mom. go out and go to work every single day, and she left early, and she came home. late. And I think that me and my sisters. turned out pretty good. Yeah. >> And I just wasn't raised with that. expectation that she was supposed to be. everything for me. I knew that I had to. do some stuff for myself, and that I'd.

have to rely on some lady down the road. to help me with something else. There. was never this expectation that she. should be the be-all and end-all. And I. think that we would do well in society. right now if we stopped putting those. type of expectations on women. So early. on in your career, you write, "When I. was an unseasoned CEO, the business was. in financial straits. Rather than. letting my direct report to know and. sharing accountability with them, I. internalized the pressure and then. shocked everyone when we suddenly needed. to cut 15 people from our 16-person. team. Not only did I feel like I was.

going to die of shame. You entice all. these people to give up what they have. at other companies and join you on a. journey, and then you fail them. So, I. know taking full responsibility sounds. empowering, but it can also feel heavy, too. Yeah. How do you carry. accountability without carrying shame. when something doesn't work out? Well, you borrow from the boys because here's. the thing, business is business, and sometimes it. doesn't work out, but you can't take it. personally. >> don't feel any shame ABOUT IT AT ALL.

[screaming] SAUSAGE NOTHING NOT A. SAUSAGE. I love that picture. >> [laughter]. >> I love that expression. Not a sausage. >> really true, and that isn't to say that. we don't care deeply about people. When. you have to make, you know, decisions. that affect people's lives, you should. carry that with some intentionality. But. the point is that as women, we take. these things so personally, and we hold. them like I did something wrong. >> Like you like it's your personal thing. >> Yeah. When actually, it's like this. situation didn't work out over here. And.

we see so many men create businesses, lose hundreds of millions of dollars for. their investors. Thousands of people. laid OFF. >> THE NEXT DAY. THEY LITERALLY GO OUT AND. RAISE HUNDREDS OF millions of dollars. the next day, and the woman is just like. sent down and can never do anything. again. It's like what a disaster. Right? Yes. So, I actually knew in my head that. that wasn't the truth. That actually, that was something that we do to. ourselves. And this is what I want to. say to women, I think that we have to. make this separation of when we're being. led by our emotions and what is true.

And I know that I'm a good person. I. know that I run my businesses well and. responsibly. And when something doesn't. work out, I go, "Okay, I'm going to take. that learning. I'm going to understand. what I'm going to, you know, what I did. wrong, and I'm going to move on and do. it differently next time. I'm not. sitting here going, 'Oh lord, like how. bad a person am I?'" Cuz I'm not. So, what would your most honest. employees say about you as a leader? They would say that I have incredibly. high expectations, that I don't suffer.

fools, that I'm firm but fair. Mhm. Nobody's ever surprised by what I have. to say, hopefully, ever. I have it written across my face. >> [laughter]. >> I'm like, you know, um but I think that. I'm a very, very clear communicator, and. I bring people on a journey with me. Nobody's ever like, "What's happening. here?" Because I'm consistent. You know, it's like I always want the best. I. always want more. I'm always going to. ask you to go 100 miles, but in return, you know, I believe that when you hire. people, you have like this social.

contract with them. That it's like I am. going to ask for so much from you, and. in return, I'm going to reward you. richly, and we're going to go on a. journey together, and you're going to. get something from this experience, and. when you leave, I'll be the best. reference you ever have. But I have. very, very, very high expectations on. people. >> when you're starting with yourself and. you don't know anything about business. to begin with, you make a lot of. mistakes. You did. What are the mistakes. that you most regret from the beginning. that can help someone else listening. who's starting with themselves? >> How long do you have? >> [laughter].

>> Because I made every mistake, literally. every mistake in this book, and I. thought it was important to share those. mistakes because I feel like right now. we're in this like, you know, social. generation where we only put out the. best parts of our lives. >> why I love this book is that you let us. see underneath what happened. >> and I really do. I think I had a lot of. delusions about myself and what type of. leader I was. I thought that I should. behave like the other people I'd seen in. business, and I realized that I am an.

emotional woman. I am extremely. empathetic, and the best way to lead my. companies was what not what I had seen. It was actually making my own version. and my own style of leadership. And so, I really did that. Like I know if. somebody breaks up with their partner or. has, you know, something happen in their. family life, they don't come in to work. in the same way. And I felt like I had. to lead by example. As a mother, I am. out the door every day at 5:00, which. means that my staff can be out the door. at 5:00 if they so choose to be. And so,

I decided that early on in my career, I. was trying to be something that I'm not, and I've kind of settled into being. myself. And a lot of that comes with. age, you know, as you get older, you get. closer to yourself, and I have this. relationship with myself and this. conversation that goes on in my head. And with a bit of more experience and. confidence, I've learned just to just be. me, and I'm all right with that. >> Well, you know, one of the things I say. about you is that you're a person who's.

been able to take instinct and turn it. into a global brand. Is that a gift or. is that a strategy or is it both? It's. both. And it really is because, um in. the beginning, when I was leading by. instinct, I think that a lot of people. around me thought I was crazy, and for a. little while, so did I. I really thought I'd overextended. myself, and there was just this little. voice in the back of my head that said, "Just keep going. Keep going. Keep. going." And sometimes you got to get.

past the criticism and past all the. mistakes and do a bunch of. not-so-good things to get to the place. But I'm not scared of the mistakes, and. I think that that is the big difference. Like I almost. I look for them. I look for like where. it's hard, where it's difficult, where. where am I scared, and then I push up. against that because I know that's where. all the good stuff is coming. >> Where did that Skims idea come from? That is one of the great ideas, let me. tell you. >> love to tell you that it's mine. It. absolutely was not. But then that's part.

of what I'm good at. When I see. something good, you know, I jump on. I. think it was Sheryl Sandberg that says, "When you're offered a seat on a rocket. ship, you don't ask which seat." And I. just was like, "I'm in." I was like, "Let's go." Because it was one of those. things that when you saw Kim's vision, uh Kim Kardashian, you couldn't unsee. it. And you knew that that was going to. be a hit. And so, for me, I just was. like, "Yes, I understand this space. I. know how to create this product, and I'm. going all in." Well, you know what's. interesting to me that there is. ambition, and then there is ambition.

with intention, you know, obviously. I. talk a lot about intention, and there I. think the intention actually aligns the. ambition and gives it a purpose. So, you're known for creating and partnering. these successful businesses, and I have. found that that aligned ambition brings. about an intentionality. And and I want. to know if you have found a difference. between building. uh from purpose and building from ego.

That is a fantastic question. And the short answer is. yes. >> [laughter]. >> Because I was so poor, so I tried it the. other way cuz I needed the [laughter]. money. You know, JUST I'M GOING TO BE. honest because I do think that I've done. things in my career where it was just. like I just need to do this thing. >> Yeah. There was no alignment. No. alignment my backside. There was no alignment. >> [laughter]. >> Not even a sausage. >> Not a sausage alignment.

Um and let's be honest, right? Cuz. there's two there's two big really big. important things to talk about here. Being able to work within the realm of. your purpose is a privilege. Because for. most people, that's not a choice. They're waking up. They're doing. something that they don't really like to. pay the bills. And so, I don't want to. sit here and smugly say, "Oh yeah, you. know, I made this big decision." I was. given the opportunity because I started. work so early. I never went to to. college. I started in the workplace. early, so I had a bit of a head start. I. made a name for myself. I had a lot of.

luck. I like really doubled down on that. luck. And so, by the time I got to my. early 30s, I had choice. And that choice. allowed me to then say, "You know what? I'm going to choose the project, and I'm. going to choose something that aligns. with how I see the world and the type of. woman that I want to be." So, that's the. first thing. What I will say is I think. it's a little bit of a slippery slope. when we start to talk about women and. purpose as it relates to business. And. this is the reason. When we talk about. these stats. that women get 3% of venture capital,

right? A measly amount given how. ingenious and innovative and brilliant. we are when it comes to running. businesses, sometimes we might have to. take a little step back and understand, in the spirit of start with yourself, what part we have to play in that. equation. Often times what I see are women will. pitch impact. over profit. Now, make no mistake. The. point of business is to make money. >> Money. Yes. And you have to make money.

before you start talking about how. you're going to give money away. So, when I get decks from female founders. and I'm six pages in and no one's told. me about the money, but you've told me. how you're going to look after the. community. I'm like, "What is happening here?" So, we have to. separate those things. I have always put. social good at the center of my. businesses once they were profitable. because when you have a profitable. company, you can hire people, pay them. the best money, you can do community. initiatives, you can give away to. nonprofit, but you can't do any of that.

without a profit. And women don't want. to talk about money. And when I have. women, like even super successful women. on my podcast that come on, they've sold. their companies for a billion dollars, they don't want to talk to me about. money. And so, I want to say, we have. to. Part of this idea of what it means. to start with yourself is to start with. the money. It's to put the money at the. center. >> Because that's why you're in business. You're in business. You're in business. >> But, we also need to say to ourselves, "Do you know what? You can do deeply.

critical impactful work and care about. the compensation. You can care about. money and you can care about a lot of. other things, too. We don't need to. separate the things. We just need to get. comfortable with the idea that we need. to make money." Right. So, you have done. things just to make money. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Just underlined, double score. Yes. Yeah, just to make money. >> Yes, and I can't say that I won't ever. do that again. I just have greater. choice now. Greater choice now. I love.

that answer. You write about two women, Taylor and Casey, twin sisters who were the founders of a. company called Cakes Body and they. secured a deal with you on Shark Tank. During the pandemic, twin sisters Taylor. Capuano. >> [music]. >> and Casey Serao took just $10,000 and. turned their side [music] gig Washable, reusable inserts. into a must-have. brands for women. Cakes Body, washable, >> [music]. >> reusable nipple covers that many women. swear by.

Now, with partner Emma Grede, 300K for. 10% final offer. Okay, done. They've expanded into a $100 [music]. million full line of boob solutions. helping women feel more confident in. their skin. Casey and Taylor. Hey, ladies. Hello. WE'RE ON A. DEAL. WE'RE LIKE so emotional watching. you guys. There's so much charisma and. inspiration. We're just so happy to be. here. Yeah. What was it about Emma that.

caused you to accept that offer and be. excited about it? Yeah. Well, you know. what? When we went on Shark Tank, we. thought it We were about a year into our. business. We had started it from really. nothing. We're going viral on TikTok. We're doing about a million dollars in. revenue a year and we thought it'd be. great exposure. We weren't really. expecting to do a deal with a shark and. then we found out about a week before. that Emma was going to be a guest, which.

was the universe answering our prayers. And going in together, too, like you. can't really talk about the deal. So, we. had to go in with the deal that we would. accept from the sharks and then the deal. that we would accept from Emma the. shark. And [laughter] it was very. different because we knew how much value. Emma could bring to the table and I. mean, there's a really long list of why. we were so grateful to do the deal with. Emma, but behind closed doors, she's.

like. what you see here times a thousand and. >> [laughter]. >> you can't fake authenticity and that's. what you. >> that reading her book. I felt like Emma. is in my face, in my ear, in my head. Oh. my gosh. Yes. Yes, so that. One of our favorite stories is when we. first closed our deal with Emma, we gave. her a call and she called us right back. and she was like, "I'm so sorry. I was. just with Michelle Obama and Melinda. Gates, but I'm so excited to talk to you. guys." [laughter] And it just means a.

lot. Like the same energy she brings. with you, Oprah, she gives to us and. just everyone in her orbit. So, we're. very grateful. So, what did you see in. them? What was it you saw? You know, and. it's so interesting because you do just. catch a vibe. First of all, I loved the. product and I knew immediately that. there was a market for this product. But, sometimes you invest in the people. and that was one of those times because, you know, you're on TV, so you get this. millisecond to make a decision. And I. just looked at these two and I was like, "They will be successful whatever it is. that they do." They'd taken their own.

money, they had corporate jobs, they'd. saved a little bit of money, they took. that money and they did and created an. innovation. That's very different from. writing a business plan, crossing your. fingers and hoping for the best. They. made a product that didn't exist in the. market and that shows a certain. tenacity. So, to me, I was investing in. that tenacity, not Cakes Body. It just. so turns out that Cakes Body is a. winner. But, um but that's really what. it was. How has Cakes grown since. teaming up with Emma? Oh my gosh, when. we met Emma, we were doing about $5.

million of business that year. We have. grown um with Emma to $100 million and. really we said on the show and we say. our mission is to do what Spanx did for. butts, but for boobs and really redefine. this whole category of how women are. dressing today. And it was really Emma. who worked with us to really establish. like we have this product idea, but how. do we really make this like a movement. that lasts in the culture and. compliments how women want to dress, how. women want to feel. They don't want to. be worried about what bra they're going.

to wear. They just want to be able to. walk out the door and go tackle whatever. um amazing things they they have to do. that day. So, from 5 million to 100 million, pretty good, I would say. thing when someone like Emma. tells you, "This is going to be big." It. gives you permission to think that for. yourself and I just think And you don't. need, you know, someone to say that to you, but it. almost allowed us to think bigger and.

dream bigger and think of this This. isn't just a product. This isn't just. like a great product idea or a great. single product that's going viral on. social media. What if this becomes. something much bigger? It's just like. really changed the trajectory of where. we were going, what we believed for. ourselves. And it just so fun. Like. Emma's hilarious and fun and just. amazing to be around. So. Thank you, Casey and Taylor and good luck with. those cakes. Yes. Great.

Bye, guys. I mean, these two are. incredible because I have a lot of. business investments and what I will say. about them, it's it's the relationship. has formed because the way they interact. with me. And I will say this so many. times to different people I invest in. When you have a mentor or when you have. somebody who's put money in your. business, the way that you choose to. work with them will say everything about. the longevity of your relationship and. what they do is come to me with ideas. and things to bet. They're never like,

"What should we do next? Like which way. should we go?" They have a few scenarios. and they say, "Here's the pros and cons. and what in your experience have you. seen?" And that's the way that you work. with a good mentor. You don't wait for. them to, you know, spoon-feed you. information. You've got to be proactive. And so, there's, you know, when they had. 5 to 10 million dollars in sales, they. were so hungry and they were charting a. path to 50. They weren't waiting for me. to say, "Guys, this is a $100 million. business." They had that ambition for. themselves. They just needed a little.

bit of experience and some expertise to. really like catapult the business. Wow. Well, Dana is now joining us from Los. Angeles. She's been in business for. herself for the last 8 years. Hi, Dana. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. You have questions for. Dana. Questions for Emma. Yes. First, thank you so much for having. me. So, I am the owner of the Dena Book. Collection. It's a home luxury lifestyle. brand. Launched in 2019, 2020 hit ground. running. It was a pandemic. I was one of. like those pandemic brands, so everyone.

was home ordering my brand slippers, pajamas, candles, all those things, right? You know, it was a very unique. first year for me. That same year. Beyoncé featured me in her Black Parade. as well as I was featured on Good. Morning America. So, like I said, a very. unique first year. So, then as time went. on, you know, things like slowed down, but I was still being profitable, still. everything was steady. But, my question. as a small business owner, when do you. know when to scale, especially when you. make your mark as a small business.

>> That's the That's the question. You. know, that's that's how people know me. And then I know when I do scale, it's. going to be a bigger overhead. I don't. know if I'll have as much say in. everything. So, that's just my like. fear. I know my brand can be so much. bigger, but it's that thing of kind of. being comfortable and being grateful. like we're still doing great because my. beginning was so strong. So, it's kind. of like when do I know. it's time to take that leap or does.

every small business need to take that. leap? Well, I love that you ask the. question and you frame it in that way. because the the truth is. we live in a moment where we're so. bombarded by these ideas of everything. being big. Like everything has to be a. unicorn. And I actually talk in my book. a lot about the women that I'm. surrounded with that just have these. incredible small businesses that look. after them and a couple of employees and. do really great. But, to go back to your. question about the timing of it all, I. would take a step back and ask yourself,

"What is it that you really want? How do. you want to live?". >> Isn't that the most important question. ever? Ever. There's never a more. important question. I was going to say. the same thing. Do you want to be big? Right? Do you want to be bigger cuz you. just said in your thing, "We're actually. doing pretty good." So, is that that. comfortability where you want to be and. where you want to stay? And it's back to. Oprah's question to ask me earlier, "What is ego and what is your. intention?" And I think that you might. well answer the question say, "You know. what? I do want to be big. I do want to.

transition from where I am right now.". And that is perfectly fine because we're. in this golden age right now where you. can take advantage of what's happening. in AI and really look at your business. and say, "How do I make optimizations. without having to take on this like. crazy overhead?" When you have a company. like mine and you have hundreds and. hundreds and hundreds of people, changing things and getting people to. work in a new way is really hard. But you're just you. So, you can. actually start right at the beginning. and decide that this is the way your.

business is going to grow. And there's a. lot of optimizations that you can make. across what you're doing from logistics. to infrastructure, from finance to. accounting, inventory that you can say, "You know what? I don't need to hire. somebody to do any of that." But it all. has to start with yourself, excuse the. pun. So, take that step back first and. decide what is it that I want and then. think of untraditional ways to light a. fire under what you're doing. Absolutely. >> And you can ask that AI for the way as. well. It will tell you.

>> [laughter]. >> Yeah. Definitely. Do you have an answer. for that, Dana? Do you have an answer. for what do you really want? I mean, I I. have found in life, no matter what the. situation, that is the most important. question. And when you sit with yourself. and you have an answer that comes from. the purity of yourself, what do I really want? And if you make. the decision that you're going to make. it bigger and grander, you also have to. make that decision out of why you want. it to be bigger. Right. >> to prove something to yourself? Is it to.

prove something to other people? Is it. because you feel that, you know, going. bigger is going to help more people? You. know, whatever the answer is. But you. you've got some soul searching to do for. yourself, I think. For sure. Yeah. That's a great place to start. That's a. great place to start. Start with. yourself. >> [laughter]. >> Thank you. Thanks, Dana. Good luck. You. too. So nice to meet you. You are such a powerful force as I was. saying in the beginning and I, you know, I worked so intensely for so many years.

It's what Michelle Obama described in. her book Becoming. She was saying, "The. velocity was so high." When I was doing. daily shows, two shows a day for 25. years, the velocity was so high. I. couldn't even remember, you know, at the. end of the week all the people that I. had talked to. So, I'm wondering, um, how do you restore yourself? What does. restoration look like for you and do you. have to have it in order to keep going? Yeah, I really do. How important is it. to get rest? >> It's a 10 important on the it's a I.

prioritize myself. really highly. Mhm. You know, and again, as. a wife and a mother, like I am high up. on my list of to-dos. Mhm. And and I. take it as part of the work, you know? And when I say that, it's not like. self-care, you know, like a massage or a. mani-pedi. It really is the the the. slowing down and the quietening of my. mind. I have a house in Malibu and when.

I go to Malibu, that for me is like the. the kind of simmering down. I get like. onto the PCH and you know, I'm like. driving by the ocean and I feel the. temperature coming down and I have this. like visualization like when I'm. opposite the ocean of like all the. things that I want and I need and I'm. trying to do like coming into me. But. I'm really serious about taking time for. myself and and again, maybe sometimes. like a little bit frowned upon for a. mother of four, you know, that level of.

sort of selfishness. But I don't really. apologize for it because I need that. I. need to take time and a moment for. myself to be good for everyone else. To. in order to be a better mother. Yeah. I. recently read that you started a. meditation practice. >> I did. Yeah, and how has that impacted. you? It's I mean, in in the most fundamental way, it's the. biggest thing that I've done. maybe in my adult life, I think, is to. take meditation seriously. I've always. tried, you know, I've downloaded a.

little app and you know, I've done it. for 10 days and then I've gone off. Um, I learned transcendental meditation with. a teacher. I may have been influenced. So, I. >> [laughter]. >> surprise. Um, so I I got a teacher. and she came to my house for 5 days on a. run and, you know, gave me my mantra and. it just stuck. Now, I I have to be. really honest. I don't get to the 20. minutes twice a day. I don't either. I. do usually do 15 to 20 minutes most. mornings. I'd say 5 days a week. And and. it works for me because I always thought.

about like taking this time out of my. day and I think it puts time in my day. It leaves me with space and clarity and. it also reminds Makes everything. smoother. Everything smoother. >> Makes everything smoother. And because, you know, still somewhere deep down in. me, I have this, you know, angry. 10-year-old, I can speak to her and I. can say, "Here's a better way to deal with the. day. Here's a better choice for you.". And, um, you know, she's your friend and. she's my friend, too, Diane von.

Fürstenberg. She has this lovely thing. that she says, "You know, the most. important relationship you'll ever have. is with yourself. >> is the relationship you have with. yourself. And I really believe that. So, I try like all the time to get a little. bit closer to myself and to understand. like why am I making certain decisions? Why am I feeling a certain way? Is that. the truth? I love this moment in the. book where you as a little girl had. drawn drawn pictures, the Christmas tree. and the mantel and then one day you're. sitting with your with your baby, your.

first child, and you look around and the. picture that you had drawn when you were. how old? Oh, 7 8 9 10. Is the picture that you're living in? So, describe that for us. To to the. taste. So, I come home, I had my first. baby, Gray. I was about 31 years old and. I'd bought my first property in East. London, beautiful townhouse, very. different from how I grew up and it had. these giant sash windows. It's December. 20th because I gave birth on my mother's. birthday, of course I would. And I get.

back home. holding little Gray and, you know, I. shed my first tear. And then says, "Isn't it amazing that we have this. beautiful little baby?" And I said, "No. What is amazing is that I drew this. exact vision with the Christmas tree and. with the mantel and with the sash. windows and I I can't tell you like I'm. not a good drawer. I drew it exactly as. it was and I didn't even know about like. 1970s Danish dash, you know, like. sideboards. That's not how I was raised,

funny enough. That was a Jens purchase. But I just couldn't believe it cuz it. was exactly as I'd envisaged. what it would be to like have this like. insane beautiful family Christmas. And. there I was with the baby and the. husband and the house and the tree and. the window and I just thought, I I can't. actually explain this. But it was like. one of those moments and there's. probably been a couple in my life where. I was like, "Oh, life is actually magic. Like it's completely magic. I Yeah. I. love that moment so much because I had a.

moment like that. I'd gone to a friend's. house early on when in my career and she. was like the richest person I knew and. she had these six trees in her yard. I. went, "Oh my god, six trees.". And one day I was if I ever get some. money and and I can buy my own house, I'm going to have six trees. And one day. I was having coffee in the kitchen and I. looked out and I saw the six trees in. the kitchen and when you walk outside, there were hundreds of trees beyond the. six trees. So, I realized I had somehow.

manifested that for myself and in that. moment where you have drawn the picture. as a little girl and now you're sitting. in the picture looking at the mantel. that you had drawn that you didn't even. know where that came from as a little. girl, what did that teach you about. dreams and manifestation and being able. to. bring on a future that you weren't even. aware could come? I it really and I and. I can see I I remember the feeling so. clearly. I was like, "You can do.

anything." And in that moment because I. had a little baby and, you know, my. company was my baby at that point as. well, you know, and I remember thinking. this company won't survive without me. there. If I have to take time to spend on this. baby, that thing will disappear. And. that was the moment everything came. together and I was like, "Nenna, you can. you can do all of this. You can have all. of this stuff. You just have to work for it.". >> That's when you realize if you could see. it, you can achieve it. >> 100%. I just knew it. I was like, "I'm. going to figure out the way to pull.

these two things together." And you. know, when you have a baby, you have a. little Moses basket. And I was like, "I'm just going to take the baby with. me. I'm going to take up that basket and. that kid's coming to the office cuz I. can't let the other baby go. But it was. the fusion of like this is going to work. now because I've seen it, I've imagined. it and I'm just going to imagine the. next stage." That's that's the beginning. of teaching about vision. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. One of the reasons why I think. Start With Yourself is going to be such. a compelling and impactful book for so. many women.

is because you didn't take the ordinary. path. I mean, dropping out of school at. 15 years old. And I know I have an other. friend who didn't finish school or. didn't go to college and lived with that. I'm not good enough, I'm not quite as. good as the other people. I wonder if. other people in the room are smarter. than me. And you are always in these. places where women are usually not seen. and certainly not so boldly heard. What. do you take with you into that space.

knowing that you didn't come from the. same kind of backgrounds, you didn't. come from the same kind of education. How did you overcome that? So, the truth. is. there's always a tiny little piece of it. that is there. But, when I was a kid, my. mom would always say to me, "You know, Emma, you're not better than anyone, but. nor is anyone better than you." And I. really believed her. I was like, "Nobody's better than me." And so, when. I was a kid, and you know, I went to do. these like fancy work placements with. these like, you know, lady this and lord.

that at these companies in London, I. never thought they were better than me. I thought they had a better education. I. thought maybe they had, you know, cuter. clothes or a nicer car, but I didn't. believe that they were better than me. And that's just my default. And then. when you get into the world, because I'm. a person that was like in it, you know, I worked all the jobs. I had a paper. route, and then I worked in the deli, and then in the shops, and I really like. did all the jobs. >> that paper route teach you so much? Oh. my gosh. Oh, but the morning. Like the. morning, the discipline. I never.

understood the morning. I used to see. all these people, and I'd be like, "What. are they doing? Where are they going?". To work, Emma. Like they're getting up, and they're going to their job. On a construction site or in a cafe. And. I was like, "I just want to be one of. those people that gets up every day and. has a thing and does it and and does it. with consistency." Cuz that wasn't how I. was raised. I had my mom, she was that. brilliant, brilliant role model for. that, but it wasn't what was around me. And so, I just thought I'm going to. choose better, but I never doubted.

myself. You know, I never had uh I'm not. a people pleaser. I'm not somebody that. is looking for outside validation. >> encoded. You were encoded. You were. encoded. You were encoded. I'm hoping. so. Yes, you absolutely. And the reason. why you wanted to write the book, mm, yeah, was what? I wanted to do it. because I feel like I am surrounded by. people every day. You know, they slide. into my DMs or they come and see me at a. conference. And women always imagine.

that I found like the 25th hour in the. day. Mhm. And I'm like, "No, I I I have. not." And then they're all asking like, "How did I do it?" They're like, "How. can I do it for myself?". >> Yeah, yeah. And so, I wanted to have a. level of honesty. There's a lot of. business books out there, a lot of great. business books. But, not very many that. are written by. women. >> women, 15-year-old school leavers with. four kids. And so, I was like, "There's. another way." But, it re- it it really. requires. some way of thinking. You know, I wrote.

the book backwards. I wrote about. building a brand and starting a company. And then I was like, "Why can I do all. of that stuff?" Oh, because I've learned. to control my emotions. And then I was. like, "Yeah, but what do you have, Emma?" It's like, "Oh, I have vision.". Yeah. I had a story. >> also started with that darn paper route. Right? Yeah. Right from the very. beginning. And so, when I put the book. together in that very dyslexic. back-to-front way, >> Oh, that's right. We didn't mention. [laughter] your dyslexia. I I have. severe dyslexia. But, you know, I I. think it's important to say that just.

because. the experience of writing the book was. really, really difficult for me, but I. did it because I knew that there would. be a lot of people, especially women, that would say, "Oh, I felt like that. I've been there before." And I think. that there is another way. >> And you actually consider your dyslexia. a superpower. >> a superpower. It you know, it really is. a superpower because I don't see. obstacles. My I'm such a straightforward. person, and because the problem is. probably too hard for me to work out, I. have to find a shortcut. And I do that.

all the time. I do that in business. I. go like there's an easier way. So, your. dyslexia takes the form of what? You see. things backwards? You see things I see. like in every like I'm like the worst. type of dyslexic. I see things inverse, absolutely. And I can't read numbers. I. can't As soon as you put numbers on a. spreadsheet, forget about it. Really? >> Says the CEO. [laughter]. Yeah. I really And And what's. interesting is I can see once it's. explained to me, I can see the patterns. in the numbers. So, if you if, you know, and I hire fantastic CEOs to work.

alongside me, if they tell me what's. happening, I can tell you what's going. to happen. So, I see the patterns in the. numbers and how things link together, but I need it explained to me. I don't I. can't grasp it from just looking at the. numbers. >> there was that period of time in school. where you didn't know it was dyslexia. There was no word for it, and so you. just think that you're not smart as the. other kids. >> I just thought I wasn't smart, and I. thought this place is not suited to me. I thought I was wasting my time at. school. And I knew that when I was in.

these work placements, I was getting so. much because I'm a superstar worker. I. would turn up early, I would leave late, I would do whatever it took. And you. know, I'm a I'm a people person. I'm an. in-person person. So, I made myself. indispensable. And it was a great time. cuz that was back in the day when you. could work for free, you know, and. companies took advantage of free. workers. But, for me, that was a magical. time cuz I would never have got my foot. in the door otherwise. Yeah. And do you. believe that every person. is, even if they start with themselves,

is cut out to become a business person. or business woman? Is it for everybody? >> No. Yeah. I don't believe that. I think. that and I don't think anything should. be for everybody because I think the. beauty of the world is that we're all. different, and we all have a different. role to play. And I can see people. within my organization and what is meant. for them. And not everybody needs to be. an ambitious little monster. Not. everybody needs to want to push things. to the edges every day. But, if you do,

and if you're a woman, I want you next. to me. And I want you to read this book. because we're in a place and a space in. time where there's a desperate need for. women in power. Who who yeah, yeah, absolutely. >> women in power. We We need it so badly, and I wake up thinking about it, and I. go to sleep thinking about it. And when. I meet women who are starting to. understand that they can have some. power, I want to be the person that says. like, "Come Be come with me. Come and.

see how this can be done." And be a. model for it. And I I look at you. And. the reason I've been so fascinated with. you for the longest time is because you. have this unbelievable commercial. success. And yet everything that you do. is wrapped in integrity. It's not like. laid on the top. It's like in the thing. Like it's made of integrity. And that is. so unusual in this world, and that's. what I want to do. And so, I think that. we have to be models for people. Like. And I want to be that type of person. I.

want like a million little Emmas. Like. girls that came from the hood, that. didn't have the education, that figured. out their superpowers, and that went for. it. That's That's what I would like to. do. >> Wow. Well, you were quite the force. I. just I. I've never seen anybody like you. I. really haven't. And so, for a woman who. appears to have it all, but not all at once, as you talk about. in the book, and I've said so many. times, how would you describe, Emma, a. well-lived life? What do you think that. is?

Oh, that's a good question because um. at this time in my life, you know, and I. think it would have changed throughout. my life. Right now, it's like really. understanding. the power that I have. And it's really choosing carefully. Cuz you can do a lot of things, you. know? And I have a lot of options. >> coming at you from every Yeah. This is. the time. I've seen it. I've seen the. cycles. You're hot for a second until. you're not, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so, I think that for me, a. well-lived life right now looks like. choosing carefully. Like where am I. putting my energy? Mhm. Who am I. spending time with? What choices am I. going to make? And how do I make the. best of myself? You know? Like that's what I think now. That's a well-lived life. I think you're. doing that, and I thank you so much for. coming all the way here to be on my. porch. Emma's new book is called Start. With Yourself. I can't say enough about.

it. It's a new vision for work and life, but also a manual if you are starting a. business and starting to look at how you. can better yourself in the business. It's a good reminder that a well-lived. life actually starts with you. And my. thanks to you, Casey and Taylor, and. Dana for zooming in, and I'll see you. all next time. Go well. You can subscribe to the Over Podcast on. YouTube, and follow us on Spotify, Apple. Podcasts, or wherever you listen. I'll. see you next week. Thanks, everybody.