She Lost Her Mother at Age 11 and Taught Oprah a Lesson She Never Forgot

This is Tom and his children, Zack and. Kate. Tom lost his beloved wife, Kathleen, 3 months ago. Do you have letters that your mom wrote? >> I'm confident in the kind and of. wonderful woman you will become. With. this knowledge, [music]. I have grown to actually be able to face. death with a sense of peace. You've. helped me get there because I know. you'll be all right. >> At the end of the show, I asked. 11-year-old Kate. >> [music]. >> what was her favorite memory. >> About a week before she died, before she.

went into the hospital, I was in their. room and sleeping and she I said, "Mom, will you wake me up if you go downstairs. to eat a bowl of cereal?" She said, "Yes." So, at 2:00 in the morning, we. both went down and we ate cereal. >> Aw. Cheerios? >> Yeah. >> And in the end, what matters the most to. the children, I believe, as Kate so. eloquently shared with us, are the. moment and the time. >> [music]. >> And it's not the jackets and the great. big games and the vacations, but it's. the time [music] she spent with her mom.

eating a bowl of Cheerios. >> Okay, it is now married and a mother of. two daughters. Hi, Kate. >> Hi, Oprah. >> Hey there. Thank you for spending time. with us here on the Oprah podcast. Over. 25 years of the Oprah Winfrey Show, we. did it all. It all. Makeovers. Incredible reunions. Giveaways. Celebrity conversations.

>> [screaming]. >> But more often than not, I will tell. you, for me, the deeper aha moments came. from everyday folks who just were there. to share their stories on the show. And. one of the most memorable for me was an. 11-year-old girl named Kate who sat in. the front row of our audience with her. brother, Zack, and her father, Tom, just. a few months after they had lost their. mother, Kathleen, to cancer. And I'll catch up with Kate later in the. podcast, but I've spoken with Kate and. Zach many times over the years. Here's a.

look at the very first time we met. >> [applause]. >> This is Tom and his children, Zach and. Kate. Tom lost his beloved wife Kathleen. just 3 months ago from lung cancer. Didn't smoke. Kathleen tried to pack a. lifetime of experiences into one short. year. And Tom says she died peacefully. after passing along some valuable. lessons. She wanted to have a good. death, correct? >> Immediately after the inconceivable.

news, the diagnosis, we went into action. in the way in which we coped with all. other traumas before that, which was. optimism and hope and focus on. overcoming the. somewhat insurmountable odds. And that's the sort of energy we brought. to dealing with it initially. But. it turns out that that energy. sort of stiff-arms is. >> Yeah. >> as you said, stiff-arms what is really. going on, which is the fears of the. unimaginable. And once we understood that that's.

really what we needed to embrace, we got. help, professional help, support at the. Cancer Wellness Center. What we came to. understand is that instead of coping. with the fears, we had to wade into. them. We had to face them. >> Mhm. >> And once we were able to learn how to do. that. we became free of them. >> Yeah. >> And it meant having conversations that. were indescribable, but we had them. The. four of us. The kids and Kathleen and I. We talked about funerals.

>> told in the beginning? How soon were you. told that your mom had lung cancer? >> Um the other day. >> The day? >> Yeah. >> Uh-huh. >> Yeah. They were in on it from the very. beginning. And because we were able to open it up. to. the unimaginable fears, they didn't. drive us any longer. They didn't control. us. And we became free of fear and. allowed us to be open to living in the. moment. That was our secret to living in. the moment is facing our fears and. getting rid of them. And once we did, it.

became this fantastic cycle because it. opened us up to pleasure and joy and. love in ways that the four of us had. never known. And it radiated among our. family, our friends, our community. >> Really? >> Yeah. Really. >> So, could you have letters that your mom. wrote? >> Uh yeah. Um. I received this about I don't know, a. week after my mom died. And uh this is just a little part of it.

Um. 13-year-old boys don't need their moms. too much, but they definitely need them. from time to time. I so desperately desperately wish I. could be there for you in body, not just. in spirit. Fortunately for me, I was able I won't. be I won't have to bear the indignity of. ever losing a tickle torture to you, which no doubt would have happened in. the near future. More seriously though, with when I while. I think about your life without me, while it brings me sadness, it also. brings me pride.

You have developed such a tremen- such. tremendous qualities in your brief life. on Earth that I enormous- I'm enormously. gratified as I imagine you navigating. your way even without me. >> Oh, Kate, what does yours say? >> Keep me in your heart and hold me there. in a way that gives you comfort, help or support. If you do, I will. never, ever leave you. I suspect I may. even. be able to help you during difficult. times. If you just tap into me, I will I.

will be inside you, believing you, loving you, and caring about you every single minute. of every single day for as long as you. live. That's about it, sweetie, because I know. what a tremendous girl you are. I'm. confident in the kind and wonder- I'm. confident in the kind and of wonderful. woman you will become. With this. knowledge, I have grown to actually be. able to face death with a sense of. peace. You have helped me get there. because I know you'll be all right.

>> [applause]. >> We're excited [music] for The Oprah. podcast to present this series, Life is. Better with Dogs, in partnership with. The Farmer's Dog. When he was 20 years old, Chad Brown. joined the Navy and served for 4 years. in combat zones overseas. Chad says his. transition from military to civilian. life was complicated by his severe PTSD. >> A lot of us veterans we struggle [music].

with this a lot is. it's the loneliness. I saw Axe for the first time, well, I. fell on my knees and. I actually was just bawling in [music]. tears, but I don't think I would. probably be here. No. Axe has saved me. >> I always say life is better with dogs. >> To hear more of Chad and Axe's story, [music] scan the QR code or go to. thefarmersdog.com/oprahpodcast.

>> Okay. Many of you probably saw this show. and don't realize this that after every. show I usually or before the show spend. time talking to the audience. And so. this part of the interview that I did a. few weeks ago did not get on the air. I. met Kate and Zack Collinger. They're two. children who recently lost their mother. to cancer. Their family spent an. incredible final year together when they. realized that their mother had cancer. When she realized that she had cancer.

they decided to come together as a. family, face the fact that she was going. to be dying and to make it the greatest. year of their lives showing their love. and to each other saying the things that. a lot of people spend a lifetime and. never say, and visiting as many. wonderful places as they as they could. But this is really what got to me. At. the end of the show, I asked 11-year-old. Kate, "What was her favorite memory?". cuz they'd been to lots of different. places and they'd been to Palm Springs. and Disney World and shared a lot of. different things. And I said, "What was.

your favorite memory?" and here's what. she told me. >> We went to Palm Springs for family. vacation. >> Mhm. >> And she was in bed, but I came home. after swimming and she said, "Can you. get me a bowl of Cheerios?" and I said, "Sure." So, I remember that. >> A bowl of Cheerios. >> She she ate everything. >> Really? >> up at 2:00 in the morning, went. downstairs and ate. And. about a week before she died, before she. went into the hospital, I was in their. room and sleeping and she I said, "Mom,

would you wake me up if you go. downstairs to eat a bowl of cereal?" She. said, "Yes." So, at 2:00 in the morning, we both went down and we. >> Aw. That is really Cheerios? Were they. Cheerios? >> Yeah. >> Amazing. Amazing. >> [applause]. >> I love Kate and Zack. >> [applause]. >> AND THE REASON WHY I WANTED TO SHARE. that with you is because I know a lot of. you as parents today are stressed to the. max cuz you're trying to get the right.

kind of gym shoes and you're trying to. get the right kind of jackets and the. right kind of clothes and the right kind. of toys. And in the end, what matters. the most to the children, I believe, as. as Kate so eloquently shared with us, are the moments and the time. And it's. not the jackets and the great big games. and the vacations, but it's the time she. spent with her mom eating a bowl of. Cheerios. I thought that was really. profound. Well, Kate and Zack are now 15 and 17. and they say that the honest way their. family handled their mother's death gave.

them priceless gifts for life. What was. so extraordinary about that piece was. that you all had taken the year off, had. you not? Taken some time off to be with. your mom and you'd done, you know, gone. to Disneyland and all that stuff. >> Yeah, we took some time just. apart from. we went to school. Obviously, we didn't. miss any school, but um. we took some time just to be together. We took uh all those vacations, um. spring break and winter break. Those. were just special times just to be. together. >> Yeah. Well, that's why I was so. impressed because you'd done all the big.

stuff, the people think it's the big. stuff. Oh my god, if I could just get. the big gift, get the go to Disneyland, but it's the Cheerios moment that that. you remember. >> even know. Um I know I would not be the. person I am today. I'm without the loss of my mom and it's. extremely hard to say. I mean, obviously, I would. do anything to have her back, but, you. know, I know that I'd probably be a. little more. self-involved and not as introspective. as the person as I am now because of the. death of my mom. >> Because of the death and and also in the.

open way in which you all treated it. It. we was talked about from the beginning. >> Yeah, we talked about everything. I. mean, they. every day, you know, what's new, you. know, how's she doing? >> And how old were you when you first knew. that she was sick and that this could. happen? >> See, I was in fourth grade. I was 10. Um yeah, it was a huge concept for me. I. I just didn't know how to deal with it, but. we talked about it. >> Do you feel your mother's presence? >> Yeah. I mean, she's always there. You. know, some days, you know, I don't think.

about her as much as others and you. know, it's you know, a hard thing. because, you know, I want to think about. her as much as I can. But, you know, she's given me a few. little signs that I've wanted. So, you. know, just having her here with me. >> once when you were sick that you felt. her very strongly. >> Yeah, I was at camp and I the nurse told. me to go lay down and I was feeling. nauseous and you know, I was. remembering, you know, how my mom used. to take care of me. And I was lying down and sleeping and a. few minutes before I woke up, I felt I.

felt like I saw someone. I was kind of. half awake, you know, half sleeping. And. I um felt this enormous pressure on my. head. And it was kind of startling and I. you know, was shaken up and I woke up. and I I felt 100% better. And I mean, I. looked around the room, no one was. there. I went out, you know, to the. porch and the nurse was there talking. with another person and it was just it's. like you made me better. I mean, she. always did. >> Mhm. >> Um you said the best advice you got when.

you found out that Kathleen was going to. die was what? To be completely open. >> Yeah, actually it was at the moment of. having to deal with going to pick up the. kids from school an hour after hearing. what her diagnosis was. And so I looked. for help. I said, "How do I do this?". And the the counsel was. uh you don't need to say everything, but. whatever you say, make it absolutely the. truth because that's the only thing. you've got. It's the only link is the. truth. So,

that's what we did. And from that moment. on, uh I was guided by that. And when. they had the wherewithal to ask what. they were ready to hear, they would ask. And I. >> Like is mom going to die? >> Right. Yeah, it took about 4 or 5 days. and they asked that question. And I it's. the first time as a parent I had to. protect myself from saying, "It's going. to be okay.". >> Mhm. So, you told the truth. >> the truth. >> You told the truth. And that decision I. was talking about earlier, we were all. so impressed that you decided family. time, we're going to spend as many.

quality moments together as possible. That was a conscious effort on. everybody's part. >> Well, it was, you know, in in. retrospect, I was also guided by the. fact that I was worthless at work. I mean, I was worthless, so it was a. very easy decision to make to be able to. just stay at home. So, I made the right choice. >> Well, thank you. I told you you're my favorites. Thank. you, Kate and Zach and Tom. You're. you're you're you're you're up there, too, Tom. >> In 2016, we caught up with Kate, who was. no longer a little girl at the time. She.

was 29 years old, already living in. Chicago. Kate's simple Cheerios moment had a big. impact on me, and I always remembered. it. Today, that little Kate is 29 years. old. My team caught up with her to find. out how she is now. >> For a while after the show, [music] I. was the Cheerios girl. I mean, that was 18 years ago. There's been a lot of life that's. happened. since then. My family changed. The.

dynamic completely shifted. Um my dad. was a workaholic. He sacrificed. [music]. He went from this high-powered. advertising executive to taking a. huge pay cut and became a professor at. Northwestern. So, he could be available to take us to. school and be at home at night to have. dinner [music] with us. I went from. being a mommy's girl to being a daddy's. girl. And he and my brother are my. people. They're my tribe.

So, my freshman of college, I went to. Northwestern. I was in a deep depression. I wasn't. getting out of bed. I wasn't showering. I was overeating, and I ended up seeing. a psychiatrist for the first time in my. life. And um. he put me on an antidepressant. And he. said, "If she's bipolar, this could flip her. Because for people. who are put on antidepressants who are. bipolar, it has the capacity to. antidepressant them so much that they'll.

be sent into a a manic episode." And all. of a sudden, I was feeling good. I didn't need therapy anymore. I didn't really need to eat cuz I wasn't. really hungry anymore. I didn't need to sleep cuz I wasn't. really tired anymore. I was engaging in risky behavior. In November 2005, I took a. hallucinogenic drug with a friend. and got in a car, blacked out, and. I wake up and I'm [music] pressing the.

accelerator of the car. having no idea why it wasn't going. anywhere. >> [music]. >> And I look up and there's some. electrical post about 10-15 ft from my. face. And they took me to the hospital. and. that was my induction into a 12-step. program. Um. and that was the beginning of a very. long journey for me. um to get sober and stay sober. Um because for a very long time I felt. like I could control it. For a very long.

time I felt like the drug or the drink. or whatever I ingested was going to. change. It was going to be different. next time. Today it's about the choices that I make. on a daily basis. Proactive decisions that I make on a. daily basis. towards living a healthier or more. balanced life. I have such a tremendous network of. family and friends that.

are there. on the other end of the line when I need. them. >> Last night we were looking through this. book that her dad had given her for her. 18th birthday. >> Feels like it's been a very long road. I'm telling a very different story than. I did when I was 11 years old. Um and I have a different message to. convey. I get up every morning and go to. a job that I've held for almost 2 years. and I continue to have a lot of love and. support. And my mother is a part of that. She. passed away almost two decades ago, but.

she. shows up for me. when I hear It's a Wonderful World, you. know. [music]. That was her favorite song and that. comes on sometimes. exactly when I need it to. Or the letter. that she wrote to me before she passed. away, [music]. she said she'd always be in my corner. cheering me on. I think that inherent. feeling that I had as a little girl when. I would talked about the Cheerios. experience, still is very present for me today. You. know, it's not about the.

the vacations or the money or whatever. It's about, you know, the. the intimate moment of connection that. you have on a daily basis with the world. around you. And it's the magnitude and. scope of the relationships and love that. I have in my life today with my family, who are friends, and my friends, who are. family. [music]. That's what's so profound and important. and incredible to me. >> So, that was 10 years ago. Kate is now. married and the mother of two daughters.

Hi, Kate. >> Hi, Oprah. Oh my goodness, it's nice to. see your face. >> So good to talk to you again. Here we. are 30 years later talking about that. Cheerios moment. Why do you think that. that lesson resonated like it did? >> I mean, especially being a mom now, >> Yeah. >> I was with Remy on our bed yesterday, like having a tickle torture fight. And. I remember when my mom and I were, you. know, in the last years of her life, God, I vividly remember this and I don't. have many memories of my childhood. because of the trauma of that I.

experienced, but I remember she was. probably a few months before she passed. away, and I said, "Mom, and we'd go we'd have. tickle torture fights all the time." And. I'd say, "Mom, can you just like get on. the ground?" And I could I remember. seeing her face like, "I want to do this. right now." But she was in so much pain, so she kind of like got on the floor. with me and like, you know, it wasn't. with the same enthusiasm as once as she. once had, could, but she was just. wanting to recreate some of that magic. that I had as a child with her. And.

being able to just like tickle torture. Remy on the bed yesterday was just like, I mean, I have to make a muscle memory. of that moment. This is going by so. fast. Motherhood is going by so fast. >> Because you have two gorgeous little. girls now, Remy and Macy. And how has having the children shifted. your relationship you feel with your own. mom? >> My cousin actually asked me this.

question when I had recently had Mazie, which was not too far after Remy. Um and you know, I think initially when. I was coming out of the darkness as I. was, you know, 10 years ago, I was. really just re-emerging from a lot of. struggle and I didn't see or feel when. you're in those times of darkness, you. don't see and feel that magic and. spiritual connection, at least I didn't. in this much with my mother. But being. able to be a mother now and being able. to incorporate her memory in the way.

that I live my life today is so magical. >> Wow. Wow, wow, wow. So, how's your brother Zach and your dad. Tom, who is a grandpa now? >> TT. Yeah, so he actually wanted to be. called TC, but Remy couldn't get that. out and being the firstborn, that's just. what you're going to be named now, Dad. Um so, [laughter] TT. she got to do it. She got to name it. Um. and my brother, my brother lives in. Austin, travels internationally for. work. My dad is finally back in Chicago.

after spending the winter in Tucson, where he spends his time with his wife. and we're just going through the daily. motions of trying to get together as. often as possible as a family. >> I heard he was the officiant at your. wedding. >> Yeah, Zach was the officiant at our. wedding. Um. you know, that wedding I think daily my. husband Pat and I talk about this. wedding. I mean, it's it was so magical. and Zach was such a shepherd of that. magic into that day. It was really just. it was the spiritual.

just I am an anxious human being and I. have to tell you that I walked down the. aisle with such a sense of I got this. peace because I knew what I was doing. I. knew what I was what I was celebrating, not just the wedding itself, but the. accomplishments of a lifetime of being. able to overcome so much trauma and. strife. And walking towards Pat, seeing. my brother at the end on this gorgeous. summer day.

to the music of What a Wonderful World, which was my mother's favorite song. Dancing to Because You Loved Me by. Celine Dion, you know, with my dad at my. wedding, like reading an excerpt of the. letter that my mom wrote to me before. she passed away at the end of the aisle. like during the ceremony, being able to. incorporate her in so many beautiful. ways. And then to have my brother, who. is like my. he's my person. I mean, sorry Pat, but. like he's my OG, you know. It was. magical. It was a magical start to an.

incredible marriage and relationship. that I have with. my husband, so. >> Do you still have that little hat? Did you keep that little hat? >> The hat that I wore in the original. show? >> Yeah. >> No, I honestly I was like, where did. that hat go? And I was It's so funny cuz. I got to pick out what I was wearing. that day as a mighty 11-year-old. And uh. that just was the one that I chose and I. think I wore it during my mom's or a. room that she had dedicated to her at. the cancer center, you know, when she.

was alive and. I don't have that hat anymore. >> I know, I just remember you from that. like that cute little hat. You're You're. one of the few people that ever came on. the show. I don't remember anybody else ever. wearing a hat. So, it's always like Kate. and Zack and the hat. So, we spoke with. your brother Zack and I wanted to share. what he told us about you. He said, "My. sister and my dad are the rocks in my. life. They've been guiding forces. through everything. And Kate's. resilience is something I learn from.

every day. And seeing her now married. with two children and building a life is. just incredible, especially knowing what. she went through. And I love being Uncle. Zacky. That's what he said. And seeing. my dad as a grandfather now, he has this. new joy and purpose. So for me, it's. gratitude for my family and for the way. that our shared pain has led to so much. connection and joy in ways we couldn't. have anticipated. I love that. shared pain.

was able to lead to connection and joy. But that comes with the work that you. did to get yourself here. >> Absolutely. I mean, you know, Zack and I. are tremendously close. And there years where we weren't as. close despite whether or not I could. acknowledge it in the moment, of course. there were because he had to keep a. distance. I needed to go into. self-preservation mode in some of the. years that I was struggling to, you. know, stabilize. And I I just celebrated.

my 40th birthday. He wrote me this. phenomenal testimonial, pages worth of. the speech that he, you know, spoke with. spoke to me at my 40th about fire and. water and how we complement each other, how he's a Leo and I'm a Pisces and how. I've always been the balanced thread. that has, you know, kept him, you know, on the right track. And we fundamentally. feel that way about one another. And. it's a bond that I would not have traded. in obviously despite the loss of my.

mother and because of the loss of my. mother, we are as strong as we are. I mean, my. dad, my brother, I mean, it's no wonder. that I found such a phenomenal husband. because they're just. and eloquent. My brother, of course, those words were just so incredibly. eloquent, these English majors in my. life. But I'm so grateful that I have. such exemplary. >> I think that's wonderful in my life. >> Wonderful to see you. Wonderful to see. you. >> It's so good seeing you, too. >> Give my very best to Tom and Zach and.

those beautiful girls. >> I will. >> And I just wanted to say if you have a. friend or family member dealing with a. terminal illness, I hope you share this. episode with them. There's so much to. learn from Kate and her family and we'll. see you next time. Go well. >> Our listeners [music] tell us that the. podcast is resonating with you and is. serving as a bright spot in your day. That means a lot to me. So, [music]. here's the thing. I would really. appreciate it if you like and subscribe. to the Oprah podcast [music] on YouTube.

or wherever you podcast. It's It's just. a quick tap of the subscribe button and. that way you won't miss an episode in. your queue. You [music] don't have to. pay anything. I know subscribe usually. means you're paying something, but this. time [music] it means you just are. notified when there's something new. There are many more [music] to come that. we're excited about. So, thank you for. watching and listening.