Richard Russo: "Bridge of Sighs" | Oprah's Book Club

Hi everybody. [cheering]. [applause and music]. This is uh Richard Russo. Everybody. [cheering]. esteemed Pulit surprise author which. it's great once you win that pullet. [music] surprise it follows you. everywhere. Isn't that great? >> First line of the obituary. >> Yes. [laughter]. >> All right. [music] Are we ready to roll. here? Hello everybody. A warm welcome to you. Thank you for joining me for Oprah's.

Book Club presented by Starbucks. [screaming]. It is wonderful to be here in stunningly. beautiful Seattle. Seattle, we love you. Starbucks hometown. [applause]. This is where Starbucks was born, where. the very first Starbucks opened in 1971. Your cozy neighborhood Starbucks cafe is. the perfect place to sit down with a. good book, good coffee, and good. company. For this month's book club. pick, Starbucks is pairing it with a. vanilla sweet cream cold brew. It's a.

slow steeped cold brew coffee accented. with vanilla topped with a float of. housemade vanilla sweet cream. And my. 117th book club selection is Bridge of. Size, Bridge of Size by Puliter. Prizewinning author Richard Russo. Let's. welcome Richard Russo. [applause]. This novel is a layered coming of age.

story about the dreams, oh the dreams. both lost and realized of three friends. from small town America. The story is. full of surprises. Going to try today. not to give away too many here. This. audience has read the book, all 642. pages. [laughter]. Thank you, Mr. Russo. Uh, tell us why. you loved it. >> I'm Quinton. Hi. Okay, Quinton. >> I love this book because I love the. relationship between Sarah and Kayla.

>> And I particularly love how Sarah. introduces Kayla to a whole new world, bringing her out of the projects and um. introducing her through art. I'm an. artist myself. I teach underserved. students here in the South King County. area of Seattle. And so I'm able to. relate to that story because that's. something that I do in my everyday life. >> Here, here. >> I'll also just say that today is the.

anniversary of the death of Maya Angelo. >> It is. >> who I took creative writing with in 2001. at Wake Forest. And um so I also see the. parallel where myAngelo has provided and. given a new world to so many different. people all around the world. >> Yeah. Well, thank you for mentioning it. It is her anniversary. [applause]. >> Marcy, Marcy, >> I'm Marcy. Thank you so much for having. us here today. One of the things that.

really resonated with me was a scene um. with Mr. Berg's honors English class. I. just love the way that he was able to. get the students to think in a. nonconformist way and how he influenced. the trajectory of the their lives from. then until the end of the until the end. of the book. Um the part that resonated. the most for me was when he said that. you have the majority of your learning. in ages 2 to three and everything after.

that it's just looking for confirmation. of things you already believe. Very. insightful. >> Very insightful. Well, I've loved your. work since Empire Falls, and even though. Bridge of Size was published in 2007, I. only recently discovered it for the. first time. And I have to tell you, I. was brought into the story, of course, by Lucy. But also, I grew up uh working. in my father's store, which was the ENW. Market in Nashville with a barber shop.

connected to the store. and my father's. store reminded me so much of Ikey's. And. so I'm curious as to how you came to. this name. What does the title symbolize. in the context of the story? The bridge. of size. Well, I think a lot of the characters in. this book are um um Lucy certainly, but. not only Lucy, are at a point in their.

lives where I wouldn't say they're. exactly despairing, but they're stressed certainly and. they're they're thinking about where. their lives are at the moment. And I. think that just how high the stakes are. for almost all of the characters in this. book led me in a way to the bridge of. size because as some of you may know of. course Venice is a city of bridges. >> Yeah. >> Pontes as they call them. >> Yeah. But the story of the actual bridge. of size is one in which the courts were.

held on one side of the river and the. kind of the dungeons the prison. >> was on the other was on the other side. >> Yeah. >> And it's called the bridge of size. because if you were convicted in the. court, you would have to cross the. bridge of size. And the legend has it. that of course you would sigh crossing. that bridge because once you'd crossed. it into um. >> it's over into the prison you weren't.

coming out pretty much over. >> you wouldn't necessarily be be executed. but you would spend the rest of your. life there. >> in the dungeon. >> in the dungeon. And that's I think. that's and that and the fact that Venice. is one of my wife's and my favorite. cities and and we we visited there a lot. and so I was probably just looking for. an excuse to call to use it. >> But do you think um obviously you you. would know but it was it meant to. reflect the emotional and you know.

psychological journeys of the characters. in any way? >> Probably. >> Yes. I said, "Well, I wouldn't want you. to think that that authors know what. they're doing when they when they write. these books. Most of my books take me. about anywhere from 3 to 4 and 1/2 years. to write." This was the 4 and 1/2 year. one. >> Uhhuh. Um, and during that time, we're basically feeling our way along. trying to trying to figure out what's. going on um with these characters and um.

>> which is always so fascinating to me. Doesn't that fascinate you? Because when. I sit down to write something, I. generally know what I'm going to write. Yeah. >> I know why I'm going to write it because. I, you know, I write write my own. speeches. It's never like I'm just waiting to. [laughter]. >> what the speech is going to tell me. >> Yeah. >> It wants to do. So what's what's your. writing process? >> The ill the ill that's the illusion that. that a writer if you spend if you spend.

four four and a half years on a book the. last final illusion is to convince your. readers that you knew what you were. doing from the beginning. >> Yeah. You can buy that if you want, but. I don't recommend it. Um, because that's. just not the way it works. >> So, you've been called the patron saint. of small town fiction. I would agree. with that. Do you think that this small. town of Thomas is a reflection of. American life or is it a reflection of.

the life that you grew up with. >> in Gloversville? Yes. Yes. To both of. those. I love small towns, Oprah, because they offer something that I. think is so important. If you live if. you live in a big city, chances are that you live in a. neighborhood full of people like you. I. remember when my daughter Emily moved to. New York, um, and she was working with a. literary agency at the time, but she was. living in Brooklyn, and she could tell. by looking at the at the other people on.

her subway car, she could tell where. they were going to get off. Mhm. >> Because most of those most of those. people looked like her. They probably. had they're probably the same age. They. had the same amount of education. Um all. of all of those things became. identifiable as to where they were going. to get off in Brooklyn. The thing that's. wonderful about small towns, especially. if you're interested in class as I am, um the interesting thing about small. towns is that the richest and most. powerful people in the town have to.

cross paths with the poorest and the. most disenfranchised and the most in. danger. Yeah. They simply cannot escape. each other. And so you have the Mrs. Whitings of the world from Empire Falls. who are taking who are breathing the. same air as as um like that poor boy. John Voss who ends up. >> shooting people. >> Yes. >> Um and. >> that's why I think cities I mean an. awful lot of fiction an awful lot of. American fiction not just American.

fiction gets written about cities. because that's where a lot of things. happen. But my god, small towns are just. gold mines if you really want to. understand America. >> Yeah. Yeah. I choose a lot of books that. are based in small towns because you. really get to understand the essence of. who people are. >> Yeah. And everybody knows everybody's. business and everybody's connected. Well, I think one of the reasons why. this story is so relatable is because. you write about um that struggle that so. many people have in staying in their.

hometown or leaving their hometown. Anybody here grew up in a small town? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Here's a great line. from page three about Lucy and Sarah's. choice to stay. You say, "Some people. upon learning how we've lived our lives. are unable to conceal their chagrin on. our behalf. That our lives should be so. limited as if experience so. geographically circumscribed could be. neither rich nor satisfying." When I. assure them that it's been both, their. smiles suggest we've been blessed with.

selfdeception by way of compensation for. all we've missed. I think that's so. interesting and it brings us to your. question, James. >> Yeah. I grew up in a small town of 3,000. people in Canada. >> The type of town that assumes your. identity even before you know that. >> Um, I didn't come out until my 30s. Yet, I think people knew long before before I. did. It's the town that raised me. My.

mother still lives there. It's a part of. me. But there's this theme of. self-exposure that we have no control. over. Um, intentional concealment, this. this hiding in plain sight. >> and and also this tension between origin. and becoming. And so the question I have. for you is what does it take to leave. the town that raised you? And when we. come back, do we ever get to be the true. version of the person we became?

>> Good question, James. >> Good. [laughter]. [applause and cheering]. Thanks. [applause]. Well, um I would begin by saying that. that that's what I did. I mean, I left. my small milltown in in upstate New. York. Um at my mother's insistence, really, she had a she had a plan for me. and we followed basically the diagram.

for for her plan. And for a while, it. kind of worked. We left upstate New York. for Tucson, Arizona. um and and I found. um a a new life there. I think that one. of the things that surprised my mother, who tried and fought so hard for us to, as she put it, escape this this place, one of the things that surprised her the. the most was that I would find my way. back there. I mean, I've never I've.

never lived in in Gloversville since. since leaving that place. I go back and. I visit. I still have family there. There are still people that I love. there. Um but um but I've never lived. there. But I would also say if this kind. of answers your question is that if you. read my novels, I think it would be. almost as fair to say that I never left. >> Yeah. So, I live my imaginative life.

among people that I didn't know I loved. until I was I mean, all that time I. spent in Arizona, I did um I did uh a BA. in English, an MA in in English, um a. PhD in English, always with the idea. that I would become a professor. um and had no no idea at all that I. would ever want and need as desperately.

to live my life imaginatively in various. versions of Gloversville, New York. Never occurred to me. So, can you go. back? Absolutely. You can go back uh and. be and be fully yourself. >> and be and and and and having discovered. what you didn't know before, which was. who the hell you are, right? It's really. this notion of being a traveler like. some of the characters taking a step off. the path. >> and and and making a life elsewhere, but. as a traveler, we can always come home.

>> And that's what happens to Nunan. >> in in this in this book. >> He becomes a traveler. He's the one who. lives in in Venice and thinks until. pretty close to the end of the book that. he knows who he is. Um, and he he he. carries his rage, his animosity, his uh. into into his paintings. But it's only when he it's it's it's. only when he when he changes that he's.

able to come back home as the person he. was destined to be as a p as opposed to. the person he was trying to protect who. was so full of rage. If that makes any. sense. >> For me, this book raises the question, I. don't know about you guys, you think. about this. What's more important, ambition or contentment? And the. question is, was Lucy content being in. in in in that community and never. leaving? I love Lucy Lynch. Um, and what I love.

about him, Oprah, is exactly what you're. what you're saying. He's um he's he's an. optimist for one thing, and I I try to. >> He's an optimist with limited ambition. >> Yes. And. >> it's true. >> That's that's absolutely true. >> Um and he has found contentment. um in um in his life and it's I have to. say something that I that I envy in him. Yeah. Um it's it's I mean he's he's. married to this wonderful woman.

>> Yeah. >> Sarah. >> He adored his father. Um he's it seems. to me that he's living the life that he. was that he was destined to live. >> Very different from very different from. Newman. >> Very very different from Newton. Bobby. McCartney. Is it admirable or naive or. just a coping mechanism? His optimism. >> Yes. [laughter]. >> All these What did you think? What do. you think, James? Was it admirable,

naive, or just a coping mechanism? Well, I know people uh like Lucy who who have. not left and um there is an optimism and. I I don't think it is naive. I I think. it is a choice. >> Um our world doesn't have to extend. beyond the borders of the town. I this. town I grew up in has a start and a. finish. >> Um you know when you're in town and you. know when you're out of town and you. know everybody that's from there and so. so I think for a lot of people it is.

default. is maybe naive but but I think. for Lucy it was a choice and and and he. was happy and satisfied with that. choice. >> Even though the town of Thomas is small. um and he has been content there he has. had a journey too because he goes from. from Bur Burman Court in in one section. of that town to another section of town. that's slightly more affluent and he. ends up in the burrow where what limited. wealth there is in this town exists. So, it's not like it's not like he hasn't he.

hasn't taken a journey at all. He hasn't. gone to Venice, but he's gone somewhere. And and that world isn't isn't as large. as Nunan's world, but it's larger than. you would think at first glance because. it's so centered in Ike Lubis. >> And it speaks to the fact that you can. still have meaning, >> lead a really powerful, meaningful life, powerful for you, meaningful life living. and remaining in a small town. Uh, on. page 65, Lucy says, "In America, my.

mother claimed that the very luckiest. were insulated against failure, just as. it was the unavoidable destiny of the. luckless to remain thwarted. I still. remember how much this upset me. There. wasn't supposed to be any limit to the. benefits of hard work and honesty." And. her saying that there were limits. implied that she didn't believe in. America or worse in us. Kiara in our. audience has a question about what are. the recurring metaphors in the novel. Kiara, >> bridges are featured prominently.

throughout the story. Um, [snorts] first. with the narrow bridge that Lucy is. afraid to cross and then again with the. famous bridge of size. >> Um, and they come up throughout the. novel many times. >> Um, I'm curious, what do they represent. um, in the novel? I I guess most people find themselves. crossing bridges. I think it's I think. it's more a metaphor than anything else.

to get from one place to another. It may. not be a physical bridge, but but we but. we pass uh we pass through. some kind of bridge. I I think the most. important bridge in some ways in this. novel is the smallest of the bridges. Not the bridge of size, but that first. bridge that Lucy that Lucy Lynch has to. cross over and he's afraid to do unless. >> he's held in the trunk. >> Yeah. Yeah. And and. >> that is traumatic.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. that impacted him in. ways that he didn't even realize. >> and is still impacting him at the end of. the book because at the end of the book. he doesn't because as a result of that I. mean that the trunk that he is locked in. and you learn towards the end. >> that Bobby Maronei himself is is is not. free of blame in terms of in terms of. what happened. >> was there he and and and he was there. >> and as a result of that um Lucy has. lived with these spells his entire life.

and he's also learned a piece of wisdom. that he wishes in some ways that he. hadn't learned is his belief is that um. that some people have to pay to cross. the bridge and other people don't. I'm not sure that the novel bears that. out, Oprah, because I think the ending. the actual ending of the novel suggests. and and certainly Robert Nan seems to. believe that in the end we all pay. >> Yeah. >> to cross that bridge. But from Lucy's.

point of view, it sure doesn't seem fair. that some people have to pay and other. people don't have to pay. >> So, who is Lucy? Is he is a composite of. other people you knew or is he. completely made up? >> Lucy is certainly more made up than than. than Nunan. >> Okay. >> Is Lucy and his father are based on. people from my own childhood. >> Mhm. I had a muchbeloved, adored uncle. who had a milk truck. He was he he he.

delivered milk throughout Gloversville, New York. And he would let. >> when milk was in bottles. >> Yeah. When milk was in bottles, right? Right. >> Uh. >> did you all realize milk used to be in. bottles? >> See, you see people in the audience. going, "What? What? What? >> I used to deliver milk and bottles to. your door." Yes. >> And um he would let me um and his. >> not in my neighborhood. We had our own. cow. [laughter]. >> It was my job to take the cow out to the.

pasture every day. But anyway, go ahead. >> But but um he would allow he would allow. my uh uh my cousin and me. >> to surf the truck. Um wow. >> So that so that's a detail that that did. come uh from from my own life. But there. were on on um um on one side of the. family, it it did seem to me that there. were these these wonderful um generous, optimistic. um and yes, naive human beings where on.

the other side of my family, there was a. there was a there was a kind of. ingrained cynicism. >> Uhhuh. >> Um that uh was more likely to put people. in motion. Mhm. >> I think one of the things about Bobby. Maronei becoming Robert Nunan is that. that begins with motion. He has to go um. he has to he has to leave this place. >> Leave the town. Yes. >> Um in order to discover uh in order to. discover who he is, he's not going to. discover it there. Uh and. >> as is the case for a lot of people. having to leave small towns. Yeah. >> I mean, which made me think about, you.

know, I was born and raised for the. earliest years of my life small town in. Kaziesco, Mississippi. Who would I have. been? Do you all ever think about this? Who would you have been if you had. stayed? Do you think about this, James? Who who would you have been if you had. stayed? I would be in Mississippi with a. grocery store that everybody came by the. grocery store. I would be the town. >> place where everybody gathered and we. wouldn't just sell vegetables and food. and stuff, but it would be the gathering.

place. And I would be doing exactly what. I'm doing now. I would be h say, "Honey, come on over here. Let me talk to you.". Yes. It's time for you to leave that. man. And I got to say, [laughter] yeah, you know, it would be it would be that. it would be the gathering place for. people. That that's what I think. >> Can I ask you a question? >> Sure. Ask me. >> Would that would that have been. a tragic thing? >> No, it wouldn't have been a tragic thing. because I wouldn't have known that there. was a whole another way of being. I.

would have found a way to manifest and. my personality. >> and be who I am. >> in an environment that would be. conducive to that. But I would have. risen in that environment. I do believe. that. >> Yeah, that's a great answer because I. don't think it would have been either. I. mean I mean you you are who you are. Oprah and you have my god what you have. done is just breathtaking and and. astonishing. Um, but the other version. of you, I suspect, would have been just.

as astonishing in. >> I would have been the deaconist in the. church. I would have had the whole. thing, you know, all all of that thing. Christa is here and she said that she. could relate to Bobby's complicated. feelings about his father. Christa, >> hi. Um, there was a passage that spoke. to me and it was when uh Bobby was. reflecting on the different version of. his father that he observed with Maxine. as compared to at home with his mom. Um, I'd like to read it. >> Was there one thing he wanted an. explanation for or everything without.

warning his father had stopped being a. simple man? Did Nunan want an. explanation for the kindness he'd shown. this Maxine and her idiot kid? Or for. the mean-spirited bullying he'd offered. his mother and his brothers and himself? The best guy Willie had called him. In. what reality was his father even a. decent guy? It was as if the first 17. years of Nan's life had taken place. under a full moon that suddenly had. waned, allowing his wolf of a father to. take on the shape of an ordinary man. How had he managed to miss that. transformation? So this made me think of.

my dad. Um, so my dad left my mom for. another woman um, after 25 years of. marriage. And the person he is today is. very different from the person I grew up. with. And so I wonder, you know, if the. the real crime was the environment he. created in my home, um, his, you know, short temper, uh, or lack of affection, or was it that he married the wrong. person? And I think that the book asks.

the question, can you change or are you. always the same person at your core? But. when you do change, which version of you. is your true self? And how much of who. we are is determined by the people in. our lives. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Y'all, I'm going to deeply sigh over the. bridge [laughter] for all y'all. Wow. Some deep questions here. Bridge of. sigh. Um, and I think in order I don't.

know if I have if that was exactly a. question or but to comment on it, I. would I would go. um to Nunan. Um, because I think that Nunan. when he becomes a painter, that's the. that's the first stage of of something. new for him. He becomes by going to. Venice and learning to paint, he's made. an enormous change in his life. It's probably not as enormous, however,

is the last change in his life, which. takes place just before he comes back to. America for his last, as it turns out, final show. And something very. surprising happens to him there because. he's he's painting that what people. think of as a self-portrait. He's. painting his father, his rage against. his father that he has protected as if. as if he might run out of it at some. point. He's protected that um to um that. that rage and throughout his paintings.

um not only that painting of his father. but other paintings um Hugh his agent. refers to those paintings as being all. worm. >> because Nan thinks of himself as. somebody who's who's if there's an apple. there and there's a worm at the center. of the apple he's always he's always. after the worm and as his paintings have. gotten darker and darker Hugh says that. they're all worms. there's there's. there's nothing else. But at the end, the astonishing thing happens.

that he decides to paint Sarah, this. woman that he was in love with all those. years ago. And he sets up the easel right next to. the easel, the all worm version of his. father. And when he and when he begins to paint. Sarah, it's it's as if the light from. that painting of Sarah is now shedding. on his father and it and it changes his.

father's portrait. It's not all worm. anymore. H. >> I think that's the that's the big change. in Nunan is is that um. his love for Sarah even remembered all. those years ago. proves stronger than his hatred of his. of his father. So when you say which is. the real person, I I'll just throw the. question back at you, but I but I think.

the real Robert Nan is the one we see. just before he dies. >> And to add to that, the I because we all. went when you said like, did your father. marry the wrong person? You marry the. person that is going to most help you. evolve into the person that you need to. be. And perhaps being with your mother, even if it was, you know, they were not. compatible or he was not happy there, it.

helped him move on to a better version. of himself. Just like many times you're. in a relationship with somebody who. makes you better because they are so. their behavior is so the antithesis of. what you really want. And so you. recognize this isn't this is not what I. want. And so he moved out of that. relationship and evolved into somebody. that you don't recognize because he was. was a different person with her.

>> And also people can people can get. really sick of themselves. >> You know, you can if you if you if you. live the kind of life your father um had. lived with your mother and was was was. unhappy about that. Another that's. another way of saying that he was really. sick of the person that he was. >> Yeah. And when he had a chance to do. something different, he did. >> Yeah. >> And I would only say to add on to that, one of the things that that to my mind. has always been the thing that I love.

most about fiction writing. is that it has saved me from I mean, I. still get sick of myself, believe me. >> Yeah. [laughter]. But fiction writing, losing yourself in. stories of people like Lucy Lynch and. Bobby Marone and Sarah, the four and a. half years that it took to write that. book, losing myself in their lives was. wonderful because it was a way to keep. myself from being sick of myself. You. know, that's that's the beauty of art.

It allows you to to not fall into that. place of being trapped in yourself all. the time. Karen in our audience has a. question about the relationships between. mothers and her children. Karen, >> one of the themes of the book that. really resonated for me personally was. the complicated relationships between. mothers and sons. So my question is how. did your relationship with your own. mother influence these characters and. did you find that the mothers uh took. the brunt of the blame for the. shortcomings of the fathers and did um.

you consider that with creating Lucy? >> I don't want to overgeneralize here but. I I loved my mother deeply. I owe her. more than I could ever express here here. or anywhere. But growing up, I could be. a little prick sometimes. [laughter]. And I think that boys, especially my. parents separated, so there was only my. mother. And whenever anything went. wrong, there was nobody to blame but. her. And I think that there were there.

were times um especially when I was. younger. Um that and like most boys, if. there was only one whoever's handy, you. know, and my and my mother and my mother. was handy. But I would also say that um. her dream for me more than anything else. was responsible for the person who. sitting here in front of you today. She. was absolutely determined and some of. her gifts to me were like that. Here's.

what we're going to do. She laid out the. blueprint and by God we followed that. blueprint, you know, step by step by. step always. But some of the greatest influences that. she influence that she had on me was. lessons she was teaching me that she. didn't even know she was teaching. For. one thing, she had a very hard life. She. worked in Skenctity, an hour away from. where we lived in Gloversville. She. worked at General Electric. When she. came home after a hard day, she still. had me to deal with, all the things that.

I would need in school the next day, um, uh, laundry that had to be done, um, her. own dinner that had to be cooked. And at. the end of that long day, and it's now. coming towards like 9:00 before her day. is done, and it started at 6. And at the. end of that long day, what she did. instead of turning on the TV was she sat. down and read. She never told me to read. She never. thought, she never suggested to me that. it would be a good idea. She simply.

showed by example, this is what you do. to reward yourself at the end of a long. day. and made me without ever even. suggesting it to me, made me into um a. voracious reader. And I can tell you um. I think it's I I'm not sure if it's true. for every writer, but I don't think you. can be a writer without being a reader. And and that's I mean that was her first. gift to me. The first of many many many. gifts. and um both her example and her.

faith. um um in our ability to change our lives. um was pivotal at every stage of my. childhood uh adolescence and well in. well into well well into my adulthood. >> Thanks Karen. There was a famous model. was on the Oprah show many years ago. I'll never forget that she told me that. she noticed the moment that she walked. into a room and heads no longer turned.

>> when she came came into the room. And. you write um this about aging. You say. then the change as if one morning she'd. looked at herself in the mirror and saw. into the future that before long even. the most desperate and befuddled of the. sunundry arms divorcees would stop. coming to her for solace. Probably she. saw too where all the martinis had. settled in the dark bags under her eyes. Her sunken cheeks had breasts. Possibly.

it wasn't even the bathroom mirror so. much as the one on men's faces where she. did not register anymore. Or worse, she registered briefly but. then didn't pass the test. >> Sex had been the currency of her life. and soon she'd be broke. If her husband. had talked a good game, well, at least. he was still in business. That was. something you could still do. Whereas, for all Sarah knew, her father may have. even warned her about the day when she'd.

flirt and no one would flirt back. When. men no longer would gather around her at. parties for the privilege of looking. down her blouse, when she'd have to face. what little remained and face it alone. I want to know how you knew how to write. this from a woman's perspective. If you'd read only my first two novels, I don't think you probably would have. come to that conclusion because those. first two books were about male. misbehavior. I was a much younger writer.

then and I didn't have a lot of major. female characters in those books. But I. don't think any male writer wants to. publish a book with with a lot of um. female characters. and and have a reviewer say, "God, he. doesn't know a damn thing about women, does he?". >> [laughter]. >> And so I think my first couple books I. didn't I didn't allow um as many female. characters to come in as my later ones.

But there was a point in my life. um where I looked around Oprah and. suddenly all the important people in my. life were women. There was my wife. By. then I had two daughters. My mother was still alive. So, how do. you write from a woman's point of view? One one pretty good tactic, although it. wasn't a tactic on my part, it just. happened. Be surrounded by women and keep and keep.

your eyes open. For God's sake, observe. You're you're never going to be a woman. You're going to you're going to have to. indulge in your imagination. But that's really like almost anything. else that writers write about. We we. write about people whose lives whose. lived experiences are much different. from our own. I mean, one of my favorite. characters is my sister Ursula from The. Horchild, who is a who is an oxygenarian. Belgian nun. What business did I have at.

age 40 writing about an oxygenarian. Belgian nun? I was never going to be a. woman. Um, never going to be a nun. Uh, I'd never set foot in Belgium. um and. and never been sold by my father to uh. to a convent. What possible business did. I have writing about this woman? Um but. that's the task is is to imagine lives.

different from your own. And um the only way the only way to do. that is use the tools at hand. Um and in. my case. um um being surrounded by women at that. stage in my life along the along the. time of nobody's fool um suddenly there. were there were women everywhere and I. wasn't so terrified anymore of being a. of being a writer who who would be. panned in reviews for not knowing.

anything about women. >> Well, you got it. You got it. [laughter]. Uh I think you have such a beautiful way. of phrasing the big questions we all. have about life. One of my favorite. passages uh from page 620 is about the. road not taken. You say, "Don't even the. best and most fortunate of lives hint at. other possibilities at a different kind. of sweetness and yes, bitterness, too. Isn't this why we can't help feeling. cheated even when we know we haven't.

been? Do you think most people feel. cheated? Sure. >> you do. Let me ask you, >> but not but not in their but not in. their best moments. >> Not in their Do you guys think most. people feel cheated? >> H. Yeah. >> You don't You don't wish you had two. goarounds? Another another chance to to uh try. something different. No. Okay. >> Yeah. [laughter]. Okay. Okay. Do most people feel cheated? Raise your hand.

>> I think women do. >> You think women do? Oh, that's. interesting. >> Okay, that's interesting. Why? >> Um, why do women feel cheated? Yeah. I. think. >> because we are cheated from the time. [laughter]. [applause]. from the time we're born, we have all of. these societal expectations to squaltch. who we are and what we can do. And I.

think now that I'm in my 50s, that. rooster has come home to roost in a. sense. And I think I realize it now more. than I ever have. And I also don't care. anymore. So I talk about it a lot. So. anyway, that's I think we feel cheated. because women are cheated. >> Yeah. This reminds me of the passage of. the book. This is on page 583 in your. himnels. Uh [laughter]. uh uh uh you write that the men never. felt trapped. They never wondered about.

the mountain road not taken. Never felt. as though some important part of them. was withering as another flourished. Never were greedy for what they didn't. have and would never experience. But. many of the women in the book did of. course admit feeling trapped in their. marriages, you know. But the men never. felt trapped because they weren't. >> Yeah. >> Cuz they weren't. So, does that. represent contentment or is that the. essence of settling? What do you think? >> Well, I think Sarah is is the is the.

character there through whom a lot of. that um gets investigated towards the. end of the book. Um. she leaves Lucy um and is not sure she's. coming back. Um and it's because she's. trying to locate her mother who she. knows has died. >> But she's trying to locate her mother. I. think uh for her mother, if her mother. were alive, she might be able to explain. some things about Sarah's own life that. she has never been able to understand.

and is trying to understand now. And so. she goes on this she goes on this. seemingly bizarre quest for for an. answer to a question that she thinks. when she first arrives on on on Long. Island. um she thinks she's she she may be on a. quest that's simply impossible to um to. to to succeed in only to discover that. no, there was a reason that she was. there, a very important reason that she.

was there. And her sense that something. was was missing. When she first starts out on that. journey, you think, "Oh god, this is. this is a lunatic quest. No good could. possibly come of this." And yet the. longer she's away, the longer she's away. from the life that she wouldn't trade, she wouldn't trade her husband in. She. wouldn't she knows that in many respects. that she's been lucky and lived a and. lived a fortunate life. But that. unanswered that unanswered question, I.

think she she does feel a little. cheated. And I think that that she. doesn't know what it is, but there's. something missing. What on earth is it. that is that is missing? If you don't if. you don't at least suspect that there's. something missing, you're not going to. find out what it might be. >> And this line I love too. This is on. page 563. The line of gray along the. horizon is brighter now. And with the. coming light, I feel a certainty. There. is, despite our wild imaginings, only. one life, the ghostly others, no matter.

how real they seem, no matter how badly. we need them, are phantoms. The one life. we're left with is sufficient to fill. and refill our imperfect hearts with. joy. and then to shatter them and it. never ever lets up. Blame love. >> Blame love. Thank you, Richard Russo. Thank you so much. >> Thank you. [applause]. >> Thank you. And this fantastic Seattle. audience. Thank you so much for being. here. Thank you for your questions. This.

is my favorite thing to do. Talk about. books. Bridge of Size is available. wherever books are sold. And did you. have to go back and read it yourself to. remind yourself of what you'd written. >> after I called? >> I absolutely did. >> You did? [laughter]. >> And what um what I would like to tell. you now, Oprah, is that um as honored as. I am and believe I am so honored that. you have chosen this book for your book. club. You also gave me a a wonderful.

great gift because after Bridge of Size, this book was a struggle. It's my. longest, my most complex book. It has. the widest angle lens. It has the the. most characters in it and the most time. elapses. That's what makes a book big. Um, and I had not thought about this book. since it was published because I had. other books. Once a book is published,

you can't help these people in this book. anymore. They're on their own. >> [laughter]. >> And I had and so I wrote I wrote other. books and this was never a book that. that um Hollywood was interested in. And. so I had no particular reason to revisit. it. And Oprah I read this book as if. someone else had written it. I had. forgotten almost the whole thing. >> Wow. >> And I was and I was it was just such a. gift. to fall in love with these characters. again. It's as if someone else had.

written the book. I can't thank you. enough. I don't think but for this I. would have ever given another moment's. thought to this novel. >> The bridge of size is you we re you fell. in love again with Lucy. You fell in. love again. >> I did. [applause]. >> That is so great. I didn't know I did. that, but I'm happy. I'm happy to be. able to do that for you. Okay, [laughter]. >> before we go, I want to share that I. recently published something tailor made. for you avid readers. So delighted to.

tell you about it. It's my book lovers. journal. Here's what's great. Has over a. 100 prompts like the first book that. made you feel seen and the book that. reminded you of what matters most. All. designed to enhance your reading. experience. It's a great gift for book. lovers and I hear book clubs are using. it when they meet which makes me so. happy. I write about some of my favorite. books in first sentences. Don't you love. a good first sentence? >> Do you struggle for with that first. sentence? Um well usually it usually um.

what happens is that the first sentence. of the book appears in the first draft. on page 375. and you go and you think oh god that's. it that's it that's the sentence. >> that's I don't I don't it's it's not the. first sentence that I write it's it's. it's somewhere in the it's it's years. later I say that oh my god that's the. first sentence of the book. >> yeah first there's a whole book about. first sentences actually I love it so. thank you so much for being here thank. you all over book lovers journal. available anywhere you buy your books. Audience, you're all going to get a.

copy. There you go. Thanks again to our. fantastic partner, Starbucks, for. supporting Oprah's book club. Next time. you head to your neighborhood Starbucks, bring a friend and your copy of Bridge. of Size and try this month's pairing, the Manila Sweet Cream Cold Brew. Go. well, everybody. Thanks so much. Thank. you. [applause].