Oprah on The Hoffman Process, How to Forgive Your Parents – And Yourself

So, a warm welcome to you and thanks for. joining us on the Oprah podcast, where. I'm always so delighted to be able to. share conversations with you about the. human experience, about the bigger. questions that we all have in life when. we get still enough to ponder them and. things I believe that matter most to all. of us. And on this episode, uh, we're asking the question, is it. possible to confront your worst demons,

unwind all the negative patterns you. have learned from your parents, have. compassion for your parents, and forgive. them. then heal and begin to discover. who you really are without all the. baggage from your childhood. Now, that. sounds like a very tall order, but the. reason why I wanted to do this podcast.

today is because I've been running into. many people who say they have done just. that. uh really uh accepted that tall. order and been able to move on with. their lives and release the past. Maybe. you have or maybe you haven't heard of. the Hoffman process. Well, I have heard. it described as 10 years of therapy in. one week like uh psychological detox. some people call it and other people.

have said it's a therapy retreat only. for the wealthy or the famous. Others. may think it's a hippie- dippy kind of. way to spend a week on your personal. growth, but lately the thing I keep. hearing about the Hoffman process and I. try to pay attention to the signs when. it keeps coming up. So, uh, I thought it. was worthwhile to learn more about it. and to share it with you because it. seems to be a thing that lots of people. are talking about. All of you who are. watching and listening and letting you. make up your own minds about it. Founded.

in 1967 by Bob Hoffman, the Hoffman. process is a week-long personal growth. retreat designed to help people. identify, address, and release negative. thoughts and behavior patterns. >> If when you get to the core of a human. being, >> yeah, >> it's love. It's just light and love. And. so our secret is that the motive force, the change agent, the beauty, the. radiance is all inside of a person. The.

Hoffman process also helps people. uncover and remove the obstacles. blocking them from connecting with their. authentic selves. The goal is to allow. people to make decisions aligned with. who they really are instead of what. others expect of them. You said that. many people spend their lives climbing a. ladder only to get to the top and. realize that the ladder was leaning. against the wrong wall. Maria Shrivever, Katie Perry, Sienna Miller, and Orlando.

Bloom are among the more than 135,000. people who credit the Hoffman process. for transforming their lives, changing. how they see the world and their role in. it. >> I signed up and and uh and had I would. say probably one of the most revealing. experiences in my life, and I can only. say I wish I'd done it 10 years or 20. years earlier. A three-year research. study by the University of California, Davis found that those who went through.

the Hoffman process experienced lasting. reductions in depression and anxiety. along with significant increases in life. satisfaction, compassion, and physical. energy. >> Hoffman really allowed me the space that. I needed to reconnect to myself and then. also put myself back together, but in a. way that focused on love and on light. [Music]. I welcome you Raz Ingrassi.

>> Thank you Oprah. >> Raz is one of the founders of the. Hoffman Institute Foundation. Okay. Can. you explain to me the core philosophy. because everybody that I talk to about. it has something different to say about. what it does. I'm just so full of love. I have so much love to offer. I see you. I love you. And other people are like, it's cleared me. It's really cleared me. to be able to move forward. I was able. to let go so many things in my past. Other people say different things about.

it. >> Well, you've said actually without maybe. knowing it what the core of it is. And. that is that at. >> when you get to the core of a human. being, >> Yeah. >> it's love. It's just light and love. Yeah. >> And so our secret is that the motive. force, the change agent, the beauty, the. radiance is all inside of a person. However, >> can I stop you right there because it's. so interesting. I just recently. interviewed Jeremy Rener for a show we. were doing on near-death experiences and.

he said that in that experience the. thing that he realized is that the only. thing that mattered and the only thing. we take with us when we leave this level. of consciousness and move to another is. love. I was on the ice. It took every. effort, physical effort to squeeze out. air to suck air back in. And that's when. I was gone. It is a collective divinity. of love. It's love is the only thing. that you take with you when you die. And. that coming back after that near-death.

experience changed him so that he. realizes that everything else is just. immaterial if it does not involve love. So, I just wanted to reiterate that. >> We don't want to have to die to do it. I'd rather I'd to experience that. Jeremy, >> we don't want to have to physically die. to have to physically die to experience. it. >> We don't want to go through what Jeremy. went through. >> Yeah. >> I was thinking there's a there's a quote. of of the great uh Roomie and he said, "Your task is not to seek love, but to.

know the obstacles that you've created. to love and to get rid of all those. obstacles. >> because when you get rid of the. obstacles, then what's there is. revealed." And so, um, we all want love. and everything, this society we live in. now is so designed to, >> uh, block you from that. >> Well, to give us substitutes. >> Yeah. >> You know, we're all seeking symbols of. success. And in our culture, success.

equals belonging and love and everything. like that. >> Uh, I. >> we think it does. >> We think it does. >> We think it does, >> but it's it doesn't deliver. So the the. core of it is to be able to reach a. level of love for yourself and. appreciation for your past for bringing. you to this level of yourself so that. you can love more fully. >> Yes. And um so the secret our secret in. teaching and working with this Hoffen.

methodology is that we know where we're. going and we're going to your true self. and and it's to reveal by removing the. obstacles to that experience. And so the. I say what's really unique about Hoffman. is the it has an ability to help you. identify what those barriers are for. you. >> Yeah. and a proprietary method for. removing them. >> Okay. So, the Hoffman process is you all. it's a 7-day onloation retreat that.

people say you have to experience. firsthand. uh to understand. But what can you tell. me about that week? Cuz everybody that. comes back says I can't even explain it. to you and I'm not allowed to explain it. to you. So, >> we don't prohibit people from talking. about it. the well, first off, it's. safe. It's safe for you to be there. And. in the program itself, you're safe. You're taken care of. There's no. confrontation, humiliation,

embarrassment. You're not going to. reveal any secrets about yourself in. front of other people that could you. you'd later want to. No. And you know, three three meals served on time, nutritious, great food, time for eight, even 9 hours sleep a night. Most. importantly, you have to give up your. cell phone is what I hear. >> Yes. We call that a digital detox. >> Okay. >> Most people, they don't like it at. first, but at the end of a week, you. really notice uh how little you want it.

>> Yeah, I know. My friend Maria did it. And I can say that because she said it. on here. She said she did it and then. came out of it wanting to detox even. more. So, a couple of days a week, she. doesn't use her phone at all. Yes. because she goes, "You can't even. imagine how freeing it is to not to be. attached to your phone.". >> We all remember we're we're of an age we. can remember pre- cell phones. >> That's right. >> And it was pretty cool. >> It was pretty cool. Okay. So, the. Hoffman process started with a man named. Bob Hoffman. That's why it's called the.

Hoffman process. And how did he develop. this? And how did you know him? Bob was. best known as a uh he had a kind of he. was kind of renowned as a psychic back. in the 70s in the Bay Area and he was. friends with lots of people from let's. say the Eelin Institute. >> He hung out in all those circles of. people developing new ideas. It was a. very rich time. But Bob uh developed a. way of working with people that was.

reading their uh their childhood really. he could psychically read a person and. tell them what happened in their. childhood that they turned out the way. they did. And so many people improved uh. from doing that. He was doing it. one-on-one for a number of years. And. then around 1971 or so, his close friend. Claudia Nurano, a Chilean psychiatrist, the same Claudia Nurano who introduced. the enagram to the United States, um.

said, "Hey Bob, I think we could turn. this into a course. I think we could. teach people how to do their own psychic. readings. I think we could really do. this in a group.". >> Is it because he had seen a pattern in. those psychic readings that a lot of. things were coming? The reason people. were the way they were is because of. what had happened in their childhood. >> Correct. >> Yes. >> Exactly right, Oprah. And uh and. moreover, people could get on a path of.

self-discovery. They didn't need someone. else to tell them. >> right. >> what happened. It was all right there. inside if they only could learn how to. tap into it, >> right? >> So that's the way it began. In 1972, they held their first process. But for. many years, about a dozen 15 years, >> they were working uh 4 hours a night, 4. hours twice a week, uh Tuesdays and. Thursday nights, uh for 13 weeks. So if. you wanted to do the Hoffman process,

although it was quite powerful, you had. to be in the San Francisco Bay area. >> You had to be in the San Francisco Bay. area and you had to go for weeks. >> 13 weeks. >> Yeah. Who has that time? >> Exactly. >> Okay. And at the time, did people think, you know, I mentioned earlier, did. people think it was woo woo hippie-. dippy out there? What is going on? >> Well, I have to tell you, I was one of. the woo woohoo. So, I was tuned into all of that. >> And part of it. So, uh, for me, it was. just another really interesting. He's. another interesting guy on the scene.

>> Yeah. >> But he had something pretty pretty. powerful. But in 1985 is when he. switched over. to a 7 and 1/2 day program. M. >> so suddenly it was okay people could go. into a residential environment stay. there for a week and uh go through all. the changes. >> Okay. So you your wife your daughter and. your son all did it right? Elijah and. Marissa and Mike all went through the. process and you all worked there. Why. does it resonate so deeply with you and.

now your family? Well, first off, I want. to say that since I was 17 years old in. Rine, Wisconsin, I have been a seeker. I. don't know why, but at age 17, I became. fascinated with Zen Buddhism. >> Mhm. >> And I started in Sattorii and. enlightenment and awakening. So, it's. been a lifelong quest for me. But why I. did Hoffman, I was 41. Our kids were. four and seven. And I heard things coming out of my.

mouth toward my four-year-old son that I. hadn't heard in 35 years. And the last. time I heard them, I didn't like them. And I said to myself at that tender age, "Boy, when I have kids, I'm not going to. talk to them this way." And in. particular, it was my dad. My dad was. telling me, "Don't cry." You know, little boys didn't cry in his world. Yeah. >> And so I was suppressed from crying. And. uh and so I be when my son was not happy.

when he was crying it it was like. fingernails on a chalkboard for me. I. couldn't stand it. >> You heard yourself saying the same thing. that your father had said to you. >> and to have the impulse of saying and. trying to suppress it. >> And every one of us has said when you've. been in that situation, I will never do. this like my mother did. I will never do. this. And then you end up doing it. >> Exactly. >> Yes. >> Why? because we're taught how to parent. by being parented. So I went and did the. Hoffman process. I cleared that out and.

uh I honestly our kids' destiny was. changed because I did Hoffman and that. later then Liza did Hoffman and our kids. are super emotionally intelligent. But I. there's a little extra piece to this. Three years later after doing Hoffman, my mother had a massive heart attack. But she lingered on with only 14% of her. heart working for about three weeks. >> And uh she was in Wisconsin. I was out.

here in California. So I would work. during the week and then on Friday. afternoon I would leave and go back to. Wisconsin for a long weekend and uh. spend the time with her and with my dad. who was, you know, keeping a vigil. So. on the third end of the third visit, I'm. out in the we're sitting next to him. It's in September late late in the month. and I was in the passenger seat in his. car and the sun was going down. I was. going to leave the next day and I was. sobbing. and my dad said, "I guess you know.

you'll never see your mother alive. again." And I said, "Yeah, yes, Dad, I. do." And there's a long silence and then. he said to me, "I don't know how to cry. M. >> can you teach me how to cry? Well, that was quite a moment. I did. teach teach him how to cry and um she. passed a couple days later and he would.

you know we would talk every couple of. days. >> How did you teach him how to cry for a. man who's never cried and raised you to. not cry? >> Right. I just um I just want to add this. one last thing. And we would talk after. she died and he would say very proudly, "I cried yesterday twice. I cried this. morning." He was reporting on me and he. actually because he was able to open his. heart and and grieve. He went through. the grief process, I would say, brilliantly. He lived another 22 years.

and was those were the happiest years I. remember for him. What I taught him, I said, "You need to recognize when the. impulse is coming up and then not resist. it and let go. Don't control you. You're. out of control. Go out of control." I. said, "It's only going to last 10. minutes. You know, you're not going to lose your. mind here, but you have to be willing to. let go for 10 minutes, 15 minutes.". And he was able to follow my in my my.

guidance. >> Wow. And he did that and he got better. and better at it and he became. >> what was fascinating is that as he. opened up that grief end of his. spectrum, emotional spectrum, the joyous. end open too. So. you know it his emotional. bandwidth expanded. >> Yeah. >> Both down and up and he became a happier. really happy person. You're just saying. that I just it makes me want to cry.

Thinking about all the men I know who. can't cry, who have suppressed their. tears and what that does when you. suppress your tears. That your inability. to express multiple things and inability. to feel joy on the other side of that is. also suppressed. And so you just sharing. that story so beautifully by the way uh. allows us all to see it would have been. a very different journey for your father.

the grieving process had he not been. able to release. >> very very different. Yeah. >> Yeah. One of the uh two core principles. as I understand it of the Hoffman. process is a concept called quadrinity. based on the idea that each person. embodies four different components. This. is what I read about it. Yes. Can you. walk us through what they are? >> Gladly. Um so what we're what we're. saying is that there are four dimensions. of self that are occurring. simultaneously and interactively. So.

first obviously is our physical body. >> Mhm. >> Then our emotions and our intellect. Our. emotions what are you feeling? Uh what. is your mood? Uh you know do you belong? Am I connected here? Am I happy? Am I. sad? Am I curious? What's going on? Just you just feel it. Then there's the intellect. What are your thoughts? Your judgments, your perceptions. So the intellect and the emotions are.

working together. Emotions will trigger. thoughts. Thoughts will trigger. emotions. And then there's a spiritual. dimension of self. And this what we call. a spiritual dimension. You might think. of it as your essential self or your. most authentic part of you. you know um. is what I say we call it spiritual self. but it's not there's nothing to believe. in there's there's no religiosity. implied here and um. so those four dimensions of self are. working interactively and the the.

spiritual or essential self is where you. are your primary identity is love and it. feels like really like myself most like. myself like coming home oh it's not like. coming. It's a new discovery. It's like, "Oh yeah, oh yeah, this is me." It's. that feeling, not the new discovery. >> And I heard that the second major. component is something called uh. negative love syndrome. What is that? >> A child is born with no ability to.

survive at all. And our entire survival. mechanism impulse is our dependency on. our parents and that they will take care. of us. And we call that the parent child. bond. It's a and what is a continuous. flow of unconditional love. Child is. comfortable. Child is happy. Everything. is taken care of. But of course, >> no parents are perfect. I. >> was going to say even the best of. parents. >> No, best of parents can. >> can't give you everything you need.

>> They probably are only, you know, there. 40% of the time, even the best ones. But. some are actually uh checked out or. worse. And uh some people experienced. unfortunately abuse in their childhood. uh physical and emotional. So. basically what happens for a child is as. long as there's that continuous flow of. unconditional love, everything's cool. But when the child perceives that that. has been interrupted, there's a moment.

of desperation because they have to. reestablish that in order to know it's. their lifeline, right? >> To know that I'll be taken care of. So. whatever emotion the parent is in at. that time, the child will emulate in an. in an attempt to simulate the bond. So. instead of um the parent recognizing. where the children child is at, the. child has to see where the where the. parent is at and oh okay, you're you're. angry at me, daddy. Uh I'm angry, too.

I'm not good enough. Now do you love me. again? So they're always trying to. connect to their parents. And when it's. negative, they'll they'll connect. through negativity. >> Even though we say we don't want to. connect through negativity, even though. we don't want to, we do it. >> This is pre-intellect. We say that. later. >> Yeah. >> Before we have an intellect. >> before you've even you're doing it even. when you don't even know you're doing. it. >> You have to do it to survive. And the. thing is it works. We survive. So, you're saying we have to mimic what our.

parents are offering in order to survive. because you you're trying to figure out. where they are in in in in what they're. offering to you, >> right? So, you know, it's. forever been forever thousands of years, millions of years, we've observed that. children emulate and imitate their. parents. They walk like their parents. They talk and their gestures. And. what Bob Hoffman uncovered is the. motivation of the child.

to do that. >> They're doing that to survive. >> To survive, but they're also they're. motivated to be loved. >> To be loved. Okay. >> Yeah. And so the motivation of the child. is to is to be loved. And so. we never we hold on tenaciously to. whatever is love. Just think of whatever. is love in your life and how important. that is to you. And so that's why we. hold on to this negativity so. tenaciously. Why it's so hard to be rid. of it. We know it's wrong but we are.

it's. >> okay. So here's the other thing R. So if. you didn't get as I know so many of you. and us didn't. If you didn't get the. love you needed as a child, those. harmful childhood patterns where you're. mimicking your parents or those who were. acting as your parents continue to show. up in our adult lives. And that's what. Hoffman is about is about how do you. break free of that, >> right? And it's how you break free of it.

in the areas that you can't that you. really can't control and that are very. important to us. the areas of love, how. I feel about myself, my my love. relationship, parenting, um. you know, my career, my my self-image, uh and all these things, you know, we we. learned how to parent from our parents. We learned how we learned relationships. from the way they related to each other. >> Well, as I said, I wanted to hear from a. few people who've been through the.

Hoffman process, and one of them is. actor Orlando Bloom. You all know. Orlando Bloom from his many roles and. from blockbusters like the Pirates of. the Caribbean, Lord of the Rings movies. How are you, Orlando? >> Hi. >> Hi, Oprah. Hey. >> Yeah. Well, I Orlando, I thought you. were you were one of the Thank you for. agreeing to talk to me because I thought. you were one of the best people to speak. about this because every time I have. talked to you about it, you've been so.

enthusiastic about what it's been able. to do for you and how it's opened up an. aperture for you. What was the catalyst. for you to go through the program? >> Um, you know, I think first of all, thank you so much. It's lovely to see. you both. And Raz, I love listening to. your voice right now because I've. listened to it so many times on the uh. on the app for the Hoffman when I'm when. I'm like in need of of of a little. centering. So, I was I would say I had.

uh I went to the Hoffman process about. 10 years ago, and I'd been triggered in. in a dynamic with my partner that had. led me into a pattern of behavior that. was was was very um similar to the way. in which I I would say I had been grown. up with my mother, the way that my. mother had loved me and had um had. interact with me and and I had gotten. very confused about um how to how to.

navigate the the dynamics and the. feelings that I was having. And I and I. had recalled that this wonderful actor. and a friend um had mentioned a Hoffman. promis to me like maybe a year. previously. and I thought, you know what, I've never. done anything like this. Um yes, I've. done therapy. Yes, I've um explored the. world and my mind in numerous ways, but.

this was the right time for me, I felt. And so I um uh I signed up and and uh. and had I would say probably one of the. most revealing. experiences in my life. And I can only. say I wish I'd done it 10 years or 20. years earlier. Um, I was just about to. turn 40 and it was it was really um the. greatest gift I could give myself and. the greatest reveal in my life up until.

that point. I felt like I'd almost been. born again. If that if that doesn't. sound too uh hippie- dippy, >> what what was it? Was it was it like 10. years of therapy in a week? >> Honestly, yeah. I I I I refer to it like. that. I feel like what what what it. feels like is, you know, I think people. say that between the age of 0 to 7, we're imprinted um on by our parents. And unless we understand.

what that impact has on our lives, what. the Hoffman process helps you to do is. unpack almost that period which feels. almost impossible but through. visualization work and through a lot of. um like uh sort of group conversation. and then more intimate conversation in a. smaller group. You get to sort of and. through watching the other people who.

may have parallels to your life, you get. to sort of um unpack the the sort of. trauma or the challenges of your your. your upbringing and and come to terms. with them and and really sort of release. them and realize that those patterns of. behavior aren't yours. And um as as Raz. was saying, when I felt like what I. learned to do was sort of leash in my. inner child and my intellect, which both.

have really great aspects to them, but. to use my keep my body and and mind in a. space to let my higher the best version. of myself run the show as opposed to. perhaps it was my intellect that was. like being too hard on a situation or. perhaps it was my inner child that was. going I just need a hug right now. And I. couldn't express that. >> Um, and it was it was really just the. greatest gift of of sort of learning, I.

think, to love myself in a way that I. hadn't really understood or had a great. example of, I would say. >> Mhm. >> How are you now, Orlando, living your. life differently today than before you. went through the process? It's it's honestly like. it's like I can't unsee that. I think. the work is ongoing. Um, it was for me. it was the first step into into.

self-care, self-love. and and an understanding about how I. move through the world, some empathy for. myself and others and and the ability to. to. not be conflicted. or not be overwhelmed by some of the. trauma that would come up in. relationships or situations and have.

have a deeper understanding. I suppose. >> you know Raz started out saying that he. uh did Hoffman himself because he heard. himself saying the same things that his. father had said to him when he was. parenting uh Mike. And I know you have a. 14-year-old son from a previous. relationship and a four-year-old. daughter uh with Katie. Has the Hoffman. process changed how you see yourself as. a dad and how you parent? >> Absolutely. Um, 100%. I think.

my job as a parent now is to allow my. children to grow without getting in. their way. Like it's sort of like don't. get in the way of anyone else's journey. Don't let anyone get in the way of your. journey. and just be grateful for the. opportunities that are presented to you. and see the challenges of the dynamic. that are in front of you as an. opportunity for you to grow and and and.

whether that's with my son who is the. most beautiful opportunity at times and. also just the sweetest soul to not take. it personally when he is processing his. emotions and at a young at a young age. and at that age. He's going through a. multitude of them to just allow those. things to unfold. It's It's not I'm not. saying I'm perfect. It's not easy at. all, but it is something that without.

the Hoffman process, I don't think I. could say I would have understood. I. think I could have been easily. um triggered. And now even if I am and. if we come across a situation that we're. in conflict about, I can I can take a step back. I can let. some time pass and then we can re-engage. in a conversation where I'm looking at. everything from his perspective whilst. trying to um lay in my thinking without.

it overwhelming or getting in the way of. his process. So it sounds like the. Hoffman process actually made you a. better man, a better person. It allowed. you to step into that role in a way that. enhanced your your your living process. >> It certainly it certainly did. Um I. wouldn't say it's um I would say that. it's ongoing. So you know and I did um.

>> and is it what you take from it? because. you say it enhanced you, but it may not. do the same thing for another person. It's. >> I think it's I think the way that it's. curated is set up to help anybody who. decides to go. And it just depends on. the individual as to how much work. they're willing to do and continue to do. and how how open they are and and what. their capacity for this kind of. experience is. But it is certainly an. incredible opportunity to even just not.

having your phone for a week, being. offline and and just being present to. yourself and your emotions and your. feelings and and and. you know there's a a remarkable amount. of some of the most detailed. questions. I think it took about 10 to. 12 hours for me to to go through the. this this this uh questionnaire which. ultimately becomes your workbook through. the week of work and you refer to it. So.

it's something to do with with sort of a. lot of diligence and care when you go. into it because it does become an. important tool in the process. But yeah, it is a it is a it is a a tool that I. think for life for skills for life in a. way and that's you know it's it's it's. something that I'm I'm super grateful. for. Yeah, absolutely. >> Well, >> but I do think it's ongoing you know. it's something that. >> and I went back um I did a Q2 for a.

weekend and I actually went with Katie. We did a couples um and actually Katie. had gone a year after. >> Q2 is when you go back again right. >> for three days. >> for three days. Yeah. Yeah. >> Three day sort of refresher which was. was remarkable actually. And I kind of. after I did the Q2 I think I did it just. a couple of years ago. I was like I'm. going to do this more often. Just. whenever I feel like there's a new. chapter embarking I want to kind of do a. Q2 to remind myself to take myself back. to that initial feeling. you know, when.

I send people or recommend people to go. and I've sent sent and recommended so. many people because. >> it's like the the just the feeling of. that first uh the feeling of that first. week is something that you'll you'll. never have again. It's like and it's uh. and it is a really beautiful process. I. mean, Raz talked about the food, but. it's almost it's so curated. It's like. you get like a a a Christmas meal. You. get a a gifting process. You get a.

birthday. It's like all the things that. maybe you didn't get or have in the way. that you could appreciate or feel in. your youth as a child, you get to. receive in that moment, in that week. rather. And and it's um it's uh it's a. really beautiful beautiful process. Yeah, for sure. >> Well, thank you for joining us and thank. you for sharing with us. Thank you so. much, Orlando Bloom. >> Great to see you, Orlando. >> Appreciate it. Raz, you said that many. people spend their lives climbing a.

ladder only to get to the top and. realize that the ladder was leaning. against the wrong wall. I read that and. I went, "Whoa, I love that analogy." How. do we know if we're climbing the wrong. ladder and how do you get to the right. one? the right ladder. You'll have a. heart connection to it. You'll meet. people along the way. Yeah. That you. love. >> that are amazing. >> Uh it won't always be easy.

>> Yeah. >> But um somehow you'll stay connected to. it. You'll feel it's really yours. >> Yeah. >> You're not trying to put on someone. else's uh guys to get through your life. I I'll never forget about 50 years ago I. was reading the Bhagavad Gita and. something came just this line popped out. for me like it was in neon lights and it. said it's better to live your own life. and fail than to live someone else's. life and succeed. I was talking to a. man. I was coaching a man last week.

He's a in excess of a billionaire. And. uh. so he said to me, you know, I'm a billionaire. And. >> my mother made me become a billionaire. And I I did it. And I thought finally. I've done it. I've made her happy. And. I'm a billionaire now. And he said, "You know what?" I said, "No." He said, "I still hated her." Wow.

He thought becoming a billionaire was. going to make his relationship with his. mother great, but you know, she was. someone who relentlessly drove him. And. she he had internalized her. >> Mhm. >> She didn't need to be there anymore. He. had internalized. >> cuz he was doing it himself. >> Oh, he was relentlessly driving himself. Okay. I hear when people come to the. Hoffman process, they often have reached.

material success or checked all the. boxes. College, marriage, home, kids, cars, the things. And then they start to. wonder, is that all there is? >> Yes. >> And you know that that happened almost. every single day that we were taping the. Oprah show. That became my major. connection to the audience because every. day I would sit and talk to the. audience. And around the '9s, women. started to stand up and say that to me. They said, "I did all the things. I got.

the degree. I had the kids. I did all. the thing. But is this it? Is there. more? Is that all there is?" Well, obviously that's not all there is. >> Obviously, >> and um there's self-satisfaction and. there's u really the feeling of. belonging and loving yourself. When we. say self- loveve, this is not some. narcissistic thing. Uh this is um. discovering your essence. >> Yes. >> And your essence is love. As I said,

>> I understand you believe that most. people are seeking two experiences. The. feeling of of course we all love this. feeling of vibrancy of being alive. >> and this feeling also of I love this. word wholeness. Because I think in in. all of my, you know, interviews and. research and reading and seeking, I've. seen that so many people are looking for. perfection when they should be seeking. to be whole. And I remember this. interview that I did with Jane Vonda and.

she said to me, "I've stopped looking. for being perfect. I'm no longer in. search of being perfect. I just want to. be whole." And I remembered that. I. went, "Whoa, Jane, you're so wise." And. but that's what Hoffman is about is. about bringing wholeness to people. >> I realized later in life that it's the. the the the challenge is not to be. perfect, it's to be whole. >> And if I think it takes a little work to. become whole, >> you've said it exactly. Um wholeness is.

the main result of the Hoffman process, a sense of wholeness. And when one has. when one has that wholeness. >> um you connect to the wholeness in life. Uh I'm trying to remember the yeah the. educator Parker Palmer said there's a. hidden wholeness in all things. Yeah. >> There's a hidden wholeness in all. things. And when you discover that. wholeness within yourself and that is. when your quadrinity is integrated and.

in harmony. then you. the the hidden wholeness in all things. is revealed to you and you are at home. in the universe. >> Oh I love that. Well, you know, when you. first start hearing about the Hoffman. Institute, for me, it's usually from. people who have wealth or who have fame. or who have uh received a lot of. attention in their lives. Uh but not. everybody who goes there is famous. Most. people who go there are not famous.

Megan is joining us from Oklahoma and. she's a former Marine who also served as. a security guard for President uh George. W. Bush. Hi, Megan. And I understand. that despite your high-profile career, you were really struggling on the. inside. What was going on? And how did. Hoffman help you change that? >> Yes, ma'am. Um, first off, I just want. to say thank you for this opportunity. and hello to both of you. Um, when I I. joined the the military, I it was an.

escape. I was trying to figure out what. I could do with my life. Um, but I. unfortunately went through um the. experience of military sexual trauma. I. was also physically injured um when I. was in the Marine Corps. So, I came out. with pretty significant post-traumatic. stress disorder. Um, and so you layer. that on top of my childhood traumas and. then I'm also a tribal citizen. Um, I'm. I'm Muscogee Creek and so um you layer. in the historical and generational. traumas and and all of that and I I was.

stuck. I was very stuck. >> And what happened when you went to. Hoffman? >> Um so I had just prior to Hoffman I had. learned um about meditation, about. sensory awareness. Um so I was familiar. with using that as a coping tool. Um but. then I lost my dad to suicide. Um and. that's I mean it it opened up all of the. wounds all over again. I was very much. um right back in the midst of all the.

PTSD, flashbacks, nightmares, everything. Um, I was even struggling. just to get out to go to the grocery. store. I mean, my whole life was just. derailed. And so, um, my mentor at the. time, she she told me about Hoffman. She. told me that it would it would help. And. I said, "You know what? At the end of. the day, what I've been doing it it kind. of works, but I need something more. I. need to to do something to get unstuck.". And so Hoffman really allowed me the. space that I needed um to reconnect to. myself and then also put my put myself.

back together um but in a way that as. you've already mentioned before um. focused on love and on light because. before that I had three emotions and I. lived mostly in anger. >> Anger angry angrier and most angry. >> Yes. Yes. >> Pretty much. >> Wow. When you hear this Raz, it makes. you feel what? It makes you understand. how the pro you well you know the. process works. >> It makes me happy. >> because that's why we're doing this.

We're doing this so that people can be. free. They can be more free, open, loving and spontaneous. >> That's that's the rich life. And um. everyone, you know, it's not by my. standard, it's by your standard. And you. can see uh I can see by the smile on. your face and I can feel the gratitude. in your heart um that you are you're. living doesn't mean your life is perfect. but you're living the life you're living. your life not someone else's life.

>> and you've said one of the things I love. that you've said is that the goal is. your goal is to help people to become. more of who they are. >> right. >> who they are instead of who they aren't. Right. And you know, taking off on what. uh what we've just heard here is that um. you know, in in her desperation, she. tried putting on the uniform of a. Marine. Yes. >> To be all right. Yes. To be tough, to be.

strong enough to withstand all the. things that were hurting her. But it. only got worse. >> It only got worse. That's that is what. happens when people put on someone. else's identity or put on the identity. that they think they're supposed to have. instead of being able to be fully whole. in themselves. >> And it's the false promise perhaps of. often I would say of our military is. that it takes young people who are. trying to figure out I'm 18. How how. does it mean to be an adult? And it. there's the idea that if I become a.

marine, >> yes, >> I'll be an adult or if I become a banker. or if I become an entrepreneur or if I. become this or whatever. And so so much. of what passes for adult life and. accomplishment in her case it was a. negative experience, but a lot of it is. people's success. So many people are. successful and not happy.

>> Absolutely. >> Having the symbols of success is not. enough. >> Have you become more whole, Megan, as a. part of this process? >> I definitely believe so. Um I have had. some pretty major career changes as a. result. Um I went and I got my masters. in social work. Um I'm now working on my. PhD in psychology and my focus um is to. create a wellness model for marginalized. communities like like tribal nations. Wonderful. >> Especially for our veterans. >> Well, thank you. Thank you for joining. us today. You know, Raz says, Raz, the.

Hoffman process is over $6,000 a week. and many people, as we know, cannot. afford that. $6,000 is is a lot of money. when you're just trying to make it and. even even though you might want to be. whole. So, what do you have there for. people who can't? >> We have a very robust scholarship. program. Uh I believe Megan was a. recipient of one of our scholarships. We. like to have people who are receiving. scholarships to have some skin in the. game. Uh so we want them to uh pay what.

they can. >> Uh but we offer this for in fact Megan I. think came in through our veterans. program and uh. >> but also there's just these people who. are holding the fabric of society. together. Our first responders, teachers, firemen, they don't earn the. kind of money that can allow them to. uh. or are are people who are in nonprofit. organizations. Uh they're doing great. things for the culture, for the society, but they're not earning the kind of.

money. And it's not only the the money, it's the time to take a week away. >> I hear many people have said to you, especially, you know, businessmen, I. don't, you know, wealthy guys, I don't. have time to do this. I don't have time. to do that. And you say what to them? >> Well, actually, I say you're you're one. of the people who has control of your. life. I say you're not a single mother. of two kids waiting on tables in Omaha, Nebraska, right? >> Uh you are in charge and you have. control of your life and what you need.

to do is prioritize yourself instead of. squeezing you out of your life. Put. yourself in the middle of your life and. uh organize yourself so that you can you. can be the person you really want to be, who you really are. >> Yeah. And I just want to say uh I I I I. love that phrase that that you're there. helping people to become really who they. are instead of who they aren't because I. think one of the greatest compliments I. ever received was a reporter who had. interviewed me uh back in the '9s and.

then uh in 2010 we did another interview. and she said, "You know, I remember you. from this interview we did in. Washington." And she said, "You're the. same, but you've just become more of. yourself.". >> Beautiful. And I said to her, I I'm. going to put that on my tombstone. If I. had a tombstone, I'm going to be. cremated. So therefore, but but that. you've become more of yourself. I think. that's what we're all here to do is to. become more alive, more vibrant, more. fully who we were meant to be. And I.

read that globally. 135,000. people have gone through this Hoffman. process. And there are currently what 13. centers worldwide. What would you say is. the secret behind the the the the the. program success? >> Well, we don't do any marketing. So, it's all word of mouth. And the secret. behind the success is that the program. works. >> I think as adults, we get to that point, many of us, where we say, I need to do.

some I need to do some serious work on. myself. I need there's something going. on here. Yeah. >> I need to work on myself. And what when. people reach that point, what we want is. when they start asking around and. looking around that Huffen will come up. as a really credible alternative. >> Well, you spent 30 years guiding people. through a process that where they. experience and as I said at the. beginning of this, you confront your. demons. You're trying to heal from some. of the most difficult challenges in. life, all the challenges that keep.

coming your way and crisis. Uh I often. ask this question on the podcast. What. do you And I heard a Stanford pro. professor say this that he was planning. on doing a a course at Stanford on this. and that is what is your definition of a. well-lived life? What is a well-lived. life? >> Wow. Uh a well-lived life I'm in the. middle of living my life. trying to do a good job. Um well live. life I think is one in which your heart. is open and you have compassion for.

yourself. inner compassion for others that you're. um you know everyone's hurting. everyone's got something. >> Yeah. >> And uh where you are able to navigate. the mysteries of life rather than trying. to get the answer. >> There are these mysteries in life. parenting, love, sex, um relationships, my career, expressing myself into the.

world. And uh we want to be competent at. navigating those mysteries rather than. finding the answer because there is no. answer. There is no the answer. And when. you navigate the mystery in life, I like. to say that that your spiritual self, this essential and authentic deepest. part of you is resonating in harmony. with the universe. I mentioned earlier. that when you just come into your own. wholeness, you're connected to the. wholeness of life. And so you have that.

feeling that the force is with you, >> right? >> Yeah. >> This is my day. Wow. things are falling. into place and uh often we see it. I. like to watch um you know San Francisco. Bay has got all these athletic teams and. I I like to watch that. I like to watch. golf. I like to play golf and sometimes. you you just see them they're in the. zone. The whole team is in the zone or.

I've been in the zone and different. things. Mhm. >> Well, I just want to say it's possible. to live in the zone a lot more and uh. that's a very rewarding place to live. and to help others find their zone. >> uh and to live it to be joyful and. contribute to contribute to the world, contribute to the other. >> Well, that's why you were here. That's. why you were here because as a seeker, you started out by saying that you've. been a seeker your whole life. And I.

know that's what seekers do. I am a. seeker, too. seekers want other people. to have the same kind of fulfillment. that they they have in life. And I I. haven't been to the Hoffman Institute. As I I as I said to you all at the. beginning of this, I know so many people. who have been and other people who now. are going. I've even sponsored other. people to go. Uh but I was just curious. to to see who is behind this thing that. I keep hearing about. I thank you. I. thank you. Thank you for raising the.

consciousness in the world. Thank you. Raz for being here, giving us a glimpse. into the Hoffman process. And thank you. to my guests Orlando Bloom and Megan for. joining us. For more information on the. Hoffman process, you go to hoffmanst. institute.org. It's all there. And I. want to thank you all for joining me for. this interesting conversation. I don't. think there's anything more important. actually than realizing the fullest. potential of your own life. And I often. say this that I know that we're all here.

seeking the same thing that we all want. the same thing and that is to be able to. live out the truest highest expression. of ourselves as human being and that's. the kind of thing that we like to talk. about on this podcast. So I'll see you. next week. Go well everybody. You can. subscribe to the Over Podcast on YouTube. and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcast. or wherever you listen. I'll see you. next week. Thanks everybody.