Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home

this episode of the oer podcast is. presented by Lily direct your online. healthc Care. Resource hello to you dear podcast. listener and YouTube Watcher I know your. time is valuable so I am thanking you. all for taking the time to be with me. here my guest today is a long long long. time friend Maria shriber actually Maria. and I have been friends as long as Gail. and I have been friends and we all met.

in the same place at wjztv in Baltimore. we met when we were both in our early. 20s so I'm known you now for we've been. friends for 49 years yeah and um I knew. that Maria was writing a book and I. asked her to send me her new book I am. Maria my Reflections and poems on. heartbreak healing and finding your way. home I have to tell you all and to tell. you.

that I read this on a rainy day sitting. in my window seat and I wept I wept. because I've known you all these years. Maria shriber has lived an extraordinary. life most of it in the public eye she. was born into American political royalty. her father Sergeant triver was an. American Diplomat and was once a. candidate for vice president of the. United States her mother was yunice.

Kennedy Shriver she was the sister of. President John F Kennedy and Senator. Robert F Kennedy Eunice was the founder. of the Special Olympics Games Maria grew. up the only girl in her family with four. brothers in 1986 Maria married the world. famous actor Arnold Schwarzenegger who. later became governor of California. together they have four children. Catherine Christina Patrick and. Christopher they divorced in.

2021 Maria is an Emy and Peabody. award-winning journalist and former. national news anchor she served 4 years. as first lady of California she's the. creator of the award-winning digital. publication the Sunday paper which I. love to read every week Maria is the. bestselling author of many books and one. of the world's leading advocates for. Women's Health and Alzheimer's research. and now she is a loving and doting. grandmother to her daughter Catherine's. children with actor Chris Pratt Laya.

Eloise and. Ford in this book You' have opened. literally opened your soul and allowed. all of us who have any feelings of loss. or grief or not being enough or not. being able to show up for ourselves you. have led us to the open field and bless. you for that and I am so proud of you. for that and it's all in the form of.

poems and you go places I thought you. would never go I want to say I really. really really am just honored that you. have become and evolved into the woman. that you are and I'm so honored to have. you as my friend oh thank you well I'm. so honored to have you as my friend and. I love the idea of having such a long. friendship I love the idea of meeting. somebody in my early 20s when we didn't.

know what was going on I remember seeing. you you were in the bathroom that. morning cuz you were working on evening. magazine and You' been up and I said oh. what are you doing here and you said. I've been up all night and you're. throwing water on your face and we lived. in the same apartment complex we live in. the same apartment complex we shopped at. the same Supermarket we ate in the same. Supermarket we would sit there and have. those crab cakes yes in Baltimore. Supermarket very glamorous but the idea. of having such a long friendship you see. you know you see someone through a.

marriage you were in my wedding in. youring All My Children uh you were. there when I got separated you were. there when I got divorced you're there. for me now and uh I feel like hopefully. I've been there for you through all of. your transitions for all the people. you've been involved with right and I. think that's one of life's greatest. gifts to have a relationship that stands. the test of time and that's given me the. strength to be standing here I write in. this book that when I got separated it. was a master class in friendship and you.

were there for me at every as you well. know you smile but at every step of the. way and I think that's how we become who. we are meant to be is that people hold. our hands they walk with us when we. don't think we can get there on our own. yeah and are willing to tell you the. truth about yourself yeah and are. willing to tell you the truth about. yourself even when it's hard to listen. right exactly so let's get into it this. is not a memoir no it's not so but how.

would you describe it I'd say it's. really an exploration of my life it's an. exploration really of my childhood it's. uh my daughter calls it reporter poetry. it's report it's poetry from the front. lines of my life it's an exploration of. my childhood who was I how did I end up. in this family what did this family mean. to me how did I become who I am today. what's mine what's theirs what should I. drop uh what do I want to own and who do. I want to be and I think I am Maria as I.

write in the beginning the reflection is. when you're in a big family like that. you don't really have your own identity. you're part of something larger than. yourself because you were a part of the. family was America was considered. American royalty I mean literally you. were born at a time when Camelot was. becoming Camelot right exactly and so. people would just come up to me and they. would say I'd say like oh hi I'm Maria. they're like no no no what but which. which Kennedy are you which Kennedy are. you and I'd say well I'm a.

I'm a sh they're like but you're a. Kennedy right cuz I don't want to be. talking to you if you're not a Kennedy. right and then who's your mother who's. your father and I always had the sense. of like that being just myself was not. enough and I think that propelled me. throughout my life and so coming to the. place where it would be okay to be. myself claim my own identity I am so my. mother nam am Maria I am Maria full. sentence stop it's not my job it's not. the family that I'm in I'm not. somebody's need cousin ex-wife wife.

friend I am my own being and who is that. well and you say early in the book I. never imagined that writing poetry would. help me embark on a journey deep into. myself and I never imagined that. everything I sought for that you were. thinking that you were looking for was. within you all along well that's every. spiritual teaching we've ever heard well. I know but I think I was raised in a. family that taught you you like you go.

out you change the world and that's the. brass ring there was no uh there was no. teaching that you're here you're enough. sit down it's okay so I was like oh okay. we're going to go out and change the. world and if I'm not doing that I'm not. going to get L because at your dinner. table people literally had to come. talking about what you did today and. what is that going to how is that going. to impact the world how are you going to. be of service yes yeah big time you know. you were there hiding in the bathroom hi. in the bathroom cuz it's too much. pressure.

yeah like who is your friend what is she. doing where is she going what has she. got to offer at the table are you going. to offer yes yeah what do you have to. offer and I was raised that way and so. what do I have to offer so I would come. prepared to the meal I would come. prepared to dinner and I had the feeling. that that's what was expected of me it. never dawned on me that just being able. to sit alone with a person or just being. on my own would be enough and so I think. I started to look at that and I remember. when I got separated you gave me the.

gift of a meditation teacher yes and you. said I meditation Bob meditation Bob he. came to the hotel yeah and he said I'm. going to teach you how to meditate and I. was like and he was like how to quiet. your mind I could not I could not he. realized after the four days that he was. supposed to be there with me he's like I. don't think this is a good time to quiet. your mind but he literally sat with me. from 10 seconds to 30 seconds to a. minute to 2 minutes to that being now an. part of my life but that allowed me to.

sit with myself to be enough for myself. and to start writing from this quiet. place that I had never been in in my. whole life you say it was the Heartbreak. of your divorce that cracked you open to. reveal some of your biggest trauma what. and that turned out to be actually your. childhood how did your divorce lead you. back to your childhood well it made me. get quiet first of all and it made me. think about who am I now how do I move.

forward if I'm not somebody's wife if. I'm not the first lady of California who. is Maria how do I you know conduct. myself moving forward what does forward. look like and so I try to stop myself. get quiet and really think about who am. I how did I end up here how did I end up. in this place and how did poetry become. a part of it Maria I writing well you. know yeah I didn't I had written. obviously all the news stories I wrote. that kind of but that's a different kind. of writing I wrote gratitude journals.

you know today I went and I saw Oprah we. had a fun time this is what the day was. like but this kind of poetry sitting. there and just being quiet and realizing. oh wait a minute I'm sobbing what am I. sobbing about oh I'm lonely what am I. lonely about when did I first feel. lonely where did that come from oh I'm. heartbroken is this the first time I. felt it oh no I'm not let me close my. eyes let me think about when I was a. young girl and I was in a house by. myself and then I just started writing.

and and it just poured out of me so. let's start with your mother Unice. Kennedy Shriver who's one of the most. formidable powerful I mean I remember. years ago saying if she ran for. president I would do whatever I could to. help her and I think she if she were. born at another time she would have been. president so Unice kver her brothers uh. were are your uncles right and were. President John F Kennedy and Senator. Robert Kennedy and unus was as you say.

in the book the most impactful person in. your entire life and in the book you. describe your household as being like a. chaotic pressure cooker give us a. picture of that well when I was little. we lived on a farm kind of outside of. Washington DC and my mother started the. Special Olympics so she had like a. hundred people with intellectual. disabilities running around in the. backyard along with a hundred volunteers. and coaches and then my father would. have all these young peace volunteers.

who wanted to go out and change the. world and they were running around on. any given weekend and my mother had this. Camp during the week and I had four. brothers and there I had four brothers. and they had like 20 dogs and I was the. only girl I am the only girl and I was. in the middle of all of that and so I. was like okay where do I belong in all. of this and I had um horse and I would. go and spend my time with the horse cuz. it was the only place that was quiet it. was the only place that I was I could. hear myself think and I wanted to be a.

lot like my mother because she was my. role model right but it was chaotic and. crazy and tragic and uh there was. constant upheaval there were constant. people coming in and out of the house. the table was filled with 15 20 people. there were Mother Teresa Robert mcar. there were Vice Presidents everybody. leaders world leaders I remember the. first time I went to your your house. there were all these letters in the. bathro. from like all the world leaders you've.

ever read about in history you're like. 23 right and you're 24 yes and I got the. message that you know you need to be. this and I I you know I never dawned on. me to question that I just expected that. that's the path that I was going to take. so did you feel loved I didn't even know. what that was I didn't even I nobody. talked about love in my house it wasn't. a conversation anybody was having we. were talking about we were out to change. the world we were talking about my uncle.

jack we were talking about the Peace. Corp we were talking about people with. intellectual disabilities that's what we. talking when tragic things would happen. I remember having this conversation with. you 20 years later CU I still remember. November 22nd 1963 like it was yesterday. it's probably in your body yes it's in. my body because I was 9 years old. walking home from school in the rain by. myself and President Kennedy had been. shot and I remember having a. conversation with you and you said. we never discussed it at our house and I.

could not believe that well we didn't. discuss feelings in my house my mother. had a saying where she would say I don't. want to hear one Yip out of you and um. and I don't think she did it to be mean. she did it to just keep it moving so the. president of the United States her. brother is shot and there's never a. conversation about that no there's never. a conversation about any of it about. four years later your your uncle is shot. and there's never a conversation about.

that it's just like let's keep moving. let's keep moving and I think that came. from her mother uh who had gone through. losing uh to other children and she just. kept moving she had a strong faith and I. think she wanted to represent a figure. to her children things happen but we. have to carry out that's why this book I. am Maria is so miraculous actually. because you came from an environment of. what happened to you nobody discussed. feelings nobody talked about about uh.

really what were tragic events in in the. household you just kept going and kept. doing and let's show what we can do to. serve the world and yet you've now. offered us your soul I know many of you. are managing chronic conditions like. migraines or diabetes or obesity well I. want to tell you about Lily direct it's. a Patient Care Resource designed to. support you during those steps when you. need it most Lily direct has options to. help connect patients to Independent.

providers and wellness education and. information Lily direct can help you get. the guidance and expertise you need when. you need it plus their online pharmacy. solution powered by licensed pharmacies. delivers your medicines directly to your. door if prescribed by a healthc care. provider that's key you can visit Lily. direct.com today and take the first step. towards a healthier more Balanced Life I. want to begin with some of your. beautiful poems so in one stanza of a.

poem titled the child within I think is. that the first one yes I. want I'm going to read it okay okay you. read it the child within what are you. afraid of says the voice of the adult. full of judgment and Scorn I realize. that's my mother talking to me I know. she can't abide fear or weakness she. can't handle neediness she can't Comfort.

the child in me don't come in my room. says my mother stay out of my room get. out go away get out go. away so I. do that's my mother's voice Stern scary. terrifying the child in me is anxious. and scared I wonder about the child in. her is that child anxious and scared. nobody saw her nobody sees me.

that was how I grew up and I have come. full circle to really thinking about the. child and my mother how nobody saw her. nobody comforted her and I think our job. is to heal ourselves so we don't. continue the pattern right I didn't want. to be I admired my mother she's still my. greatest role model uh I think about her. probably every single day I'm in. conversation with her and you were one. of those daughters like Gail right you. you were my two best friends and I.

didn't have anything close to that kind. of relationship with my mother and both. of you talk to your mothers every day. multiple times a day and I could never. understand what the hell are y'all. talking about talking yeah about work. about my brothers and about what are we. doing how are we changing the world but. I realized after my mother died really. that nobody talked to her about her. feelings nobody comforted her nobody. talked to her about her grief so how. could I have expected her to do that for.

me and I wanted to break that pattern as. a mother I wanted to break that for my. own children so I talk a lot about. feelings I talk a lot about with your. boys and your girls with my boys and my. girls and with my friends as well to me. that's really important is to go deep. and to understand what are you feeling. what are you thinking how can I be there. to support you uh you know in any way. because I didn't get that as a kid yeah. explain the double padded door and the.

get out get out your mother actually. saying Go away get get out well my. mother was sick pretty much all my life. and um I think people didn't realize. that really about her no and so she had. two padded doors before going into her. bedroom and she told us that it was. because she was a light sleeper and. needed to sleep but there were two. really double padded doors to get into. her room. which you didn't get into and so my.

experience was she lived at the end of. the hall Behind These two padded doors. that there was no way she could hear me. if I knocked on the door and I just grew. up thinking well gosh I guess that's how. people are they their mothers live. behind padded doors and then I would see. other kids whose mothers didn't live. behind padded doors and my parents had. separate bedrooms and I grew up like. that and I started to think in life like. what was.

she doing behind those padded doors what. was she trying to keep out what was she. afraid of and um it brings me great. grief to think of her at behind the. doors and to think of me and my brothers. in front of the. doors yeah trying to get in and I think. that uh you know I think I started to. think about in what way was I doing that. in what way did I have padded doors in. my own life. um you write this about feeling.

terrified in your own home you say. everyone lives behind closed doors I. stand Here Frozen in the darkness. terrified my brothers can't help they. aren't yet men as the sun begins to. break through I return to my room down. the hall I shut my door daylight is. coming one more night is over I made it. through again what was it that was. terrifying you well you know both of my.

uncles had been killed so there was this. feeling in my family that people were. getting killed and so I thought well. we're all going to get killed and out to. kill you yeah and I lived in this house. way out in the uh Woods lived next to a. mental institution and I just was. terrified all the time I was an only. girl as I said and the feeling of like. somebody's going to come in here the. house creaked the house and it was scary. nobody talked about what it was and what. it happened and nobody picked me up and.

said it's going to be okay what are you. feeling the idea of somebody talking to. me about my feelings was so foreign I. don't think that happened until I was in. my 20s or 30s or somebody would ask me. how I feel and I'd be like fine what. what what what do you mean how do I feel. I don't know how I feel just keep going. let's keep working and I think it wasn't. until really you know conversations that. we would have or that I'd start to be. thinking um wow I don't think I think I. should be feeling something I don't know. what I'm feeling and then as I became a.

mother I started to feel I you know gave. birth I was always terrified to become a. mother but where was your father in all. of this so they live they slept in. separate bedrooms as a lot of people do. um and your mother was at the end of the. hall did he know that you were you were. and your brothers were trying to get in. do you did he know I don't know he my. father was mad about my mother he. thought he was the luckiest man in the. world he idolized my my mother adored. her and wanted to do everything he could.

to ease her physical pain and to help. her become who she wanted to be I think. my mother was constantly herself trying. to get her parents' attention trying to. be somebody in her own family I think in. many ways she herself felt invisible in. her family and I think she felt she had. no power in her family that the power. was all with the men and so I have great. empathy for my mother's journey I have.

incredible empathy for what my mother. went through and I found that actually. in going to Hoffman much later in life. understanding who my parents were when. they were young what were their dreams. how did they grow up I hadn't really. thought about them as two smaller. individuals you know they were just big. people to me but trying to think about. who they were at 12 who they were when. they met who what their dreams were and. hofman is the Hof Institute it's the. Hoffman Institute where you go to look.

at kind of patterns and process in your. own family and how you can kind of look. at your parents with um not you know. with a greater sense of empathy not. blaming them but understanding them what. happened to them and that was really the. first time that I thought about what had. happened to them and did you see them. differently is that where I see you now. came from the point that you write about. your father abely yeah I see you now I. didn't you know I wanted my father to to. stand up to this Terror that I felt as a.

child and I didn't understand his quiet. strength I didn't understand you know. the way he was showing up in the world. and I didn't I think until I went to. Hoffman until I thought of the how scary. it must have been for him how he himself. was trying to navigate this big. competitive Irish Catholic Family how he. was trying to be a different kind of man. in this family and I didn't have any. sense of that I just saw him as somebody. who you think he was weak I did I I did.

I wanted to get a different kind of a. man than my father now you're right will. you read that poem I see you now I see. you now you see all I wanted was for you. to stand up to rage against it all but. now I see that wasn't your way you had a. way of doing things a way I didn't. understand I wanted you to speak your. mind to yell out loud I wanted you to. take charge but you had a different plan.

you had your own way wow and I didn't. know that about my father I just felt. like what is going on here why don't you. stand up why don't you get us out of. here why don't you do something and I. didn't give him the benefit of what he. actually was doing I didn't understand. him um I didn't understand the strength. that he had and um I remember thinking. to myself I need to go out and get a. different kind of man than this and.

that's yeah and you also write about and. I did and you did you definitely did uh. as I was going to say no surprise then. that you would fall in love with. somebody who was the exact opposite of. how you saw your father so when you met. Arnold short teneger you were just 21. and he was 30 years old and when you. first met your family just thought it. was just a passing phase and you thought. I'm going to show them right and I think. the more they thought it was a phase the. more I dug the more I was like okay I'm.

out of here I also wanted to find my own. path I didn't want to stay on the East. Coast I didn't want to run for office I. you want to be in politics yeah I didn't. want to be in politics I didn't want to. work at Special Olympics at the time I. didn't want to work in the government. and Arnold represented for me somebody. who lived on the west coast who had a. freedom that I had never seen before and. I was like I'm going to go over there. and when Arnold decided that he wanted. to run for governor yes uh I remember.

those days you were sharply opposed to. the idea yes and one of the things that. I remember I was having this. conversation at the time about you can. run and run and run and eventually it. catches up with you because it's the. exact opposite life that you had been. seeking for yourself yeah right and it. was what was interesting um my mother. stepped in and was like you know don't. complain here I don't want to hear a Yip. out of you support him and carry on and. I was I didn't even realize your mother.

had said as I recall at the time your. mother was saying if you oppose it and. he ends up not doing it he will resent. you forever forever yes and I think the. other thing uh I didn't even know is. that how triggered that was for me what. a triggering decision CU I thought he's. going to be shot or he's going to lose. cuz those were my two experiences and or. the public will take him away and we'll. be left the kids and I left here so my. experience with politics was so.

traumatic that that erupted in me so I. was like please don't go and do that so. it wasn't that I was just like oh I. don't want you to have your dream it was. that there was a lot of unresolved. feelings that no one had spoken to me. about when he broached the subject I. remember you shared with me once was it. your Uncle Teddy or was it your father. who had run for office and how all the. people around and the campaign and it's. hundreds of people and then when you. lose you go home home and there's it's. empty and well both of them obviously.

ran and both of them lost uh when they. ran for national office but my dad was. on the ticket with McGovern and I'll. never forget you know standing on that. stage with him and they lost so. overwhelmingly and I felt so ashamed. that he had lost so big and then when we. drove home you saw all the Secret. Service unplugging all the phones. locking up the trailers and in the. morning they were all gone all the. people that had been part of the.

campaign all the for months just gone. like like that overnight and it was an. experience that I can almost call up if. I close my eyes it was so dramatic that. I was like oh I am never going to go. through this again and by the way I was. so angry I was so angry that um Richard. Nixon was viewed as this incredible. Victor and my father was viewed as this. incredible loser and I felt that I did. not want to be in a business that you.

know pigeon holds people like that. deemed winner loser yes and um. especially when you understood your. father's value yes exactly and I this is. the man who created the Peace Corp right. and who was View and what was said about. him was so contrary to who he was and so. contrary to what he was talking about. you imagine now yeah and I just was like. I don't want to have anything to do with. this business and so I felt that Arnold. was the furthest thing I could find from. politics and so I was like oh I'm going.

to go do my own thing follow my own path. uh I'm going to go into journalism which. was also kind of contrary to my family. so I was like I'm going to carve out. everything differently and then of. course you know you find yourself. exactly where you started and then you. have to go okay how did I get here what. am I actually running from what am I you. say too that you have to admit that the. thing that you had not wanted right. turned out to be one of the best things. for you because being being first lady. of California allowed you an opportunity.

to reach and have a voice that could. help change in a way that you hadn't. before exactly I mean it turned out. obviously I lost my job as soon as. Arnold won NBC called and said you know. you're out so uh conflict of interest. it's hard to think of that today right. when you think about they're like one. you know a week in they're like oh no. this is a conflict of interest you got. to get out but it turned out to be an. incredible gift to be the first lady of. California because I made lifelong. friendships I was able to meet you know.

so many people up and down best wom's. conference going yet to this date yeah. it was incredible experience and we. raised so much money for so many. programs and put people through school. and did so many great things and I met. so many great people and you're right it. allowed me to speak on my own behalf. really and I'm obviously I was. representing Arnold at the time but I. had been a journalist where you don't. really have your own voice right and. then I had grown up in a family I didn't. feel like I had my own voice so being.

first lady was the first time for me. where I felt like I could speak out on. what I wanted to speak I could speak. about women I could speak about domestic. violence I could speak about women. entrepreneurs I had this big Women's. Conference I was able to speak about. Alzheimer's because my dad had just been. diagnosed and I had a platform that I. had never had before and it enabled me. to actually use all of the things that I. had been raised with so I brought my. political um kind of sense was there my.

journalism was put to good use my. curiosity my creativity all was able to. be used in that one specific job and. people don't really know what a first. lady does and each state is obviously. different we only think of I think. oftentimes the first lady of the United. States but there are incredible first. ladies going on in every state and first. partners and you know first gentlemen. now but you can have tremendous impact. in that role even though it's you're.

kind of part of a team but it turned out. to be something that obviously I didn't. want but turned out to be an incredible. gift for me so I have to thank Arnold. for that I have to thank the people of. California for that and it turned out to. be a a joy really for me so let's talk. about the other breaking open for you. the breaking open Moment was the divorce. unquestionably your husband had a sexual. relationship with somebody who was. working inside your home and a child. resulted from that relationship you were.

betrayed and you write poems here about. your feelings about that and in the. introduction you write you say as I sat. on my hotel room floor in the dark. terrified and alone with tears streaming. down my face I thought to myself Maria. this doesn't have to be the end of you. it can't be the end of you make it a new. beginning of you and and you write that. it took you many years to get to that.

point to recover and that and I'm I. that's why I couldn't believe that. you're putting this all in writing. because I know this to be true you. literally tried every method of healing. anybody has ever heard of yeah I did you. did I did and you're right it did take. me a really long time and you were there. uh on the hotel floor on the hotel floor. yeah and um I really wanted to pick. myself up up it's still an emotional. thing for me um but I wanted to pick.

myself up I wanted to be more open I. wanted to come out from behind whatever. padded door I was living behind I wanted. to know um how that had happened to me I. wanted to know who I could be moving. forward I wanted to show my daughters. and my boys that I could hold myself up. that I could put my shoulders back that. I could heal I did not know how to heal. I had just started going to therapy at.

the end of my marriage so I had not been. someone who had been in therapy um I had. not been someone who was on the healing. path of life um and I went all in you. were just being a mom with four kids and. going through the thing and that well I. was being a daughter I was being a. journalist I was being a mother I was. playing all the roles that I think so. many people play and it's a lot right. everybody that I talk to who's trying to. raise kids take care of parents uh work.

themselves be a good wife you you're not. really thinking about a lot of other. things I remember the night that the. story about uh Arnold's betrayal was. going to go public you had known for a. long time but the night that it was. going to go public was the night that I. was ending the Oprah show in 2011 and I. have never seen a friend like you. because on the night that you knew that.

that was going to be going. public. um you came and you showed up for me you. showed up for me and I don't know how. you did that because I I I would you. weren't even in your right mind were you. even present in your body you walk out. on the stage and you hugged me and Gail. hugg me and I remember everybody. cheering because the the the news had. just come out that that that that. morning well I didn't know it was going.

to go public that day because I flew to. Chicago to be with you and when I landed. remember you called me you called me I. heard and I was there with my daughters. your two daughters and um but I wanted. to be there for you cuz you had been. there for me and you are one of my best. friends in the world and so I was there. and then I got on a plane and left yeah. and um but that was important to me. showing up in my life for people that I.

love is a big thing for me this episode. is presented by Lily direct Lily direct. uses Innovations to help simplify. managing your chronic conditions from. independent in-person care or telea. health consultations to Direct Delivery. of Select Lily medications if prescribed. by a healthcare provider Lily direct is. committed to making your health Journey. more seamless and don't forget Lily. directs platform also offers well-being. content tailored to help you navigate. your day-to-day life as you manag your. condition visit ly direct.com and.

discover how they can support your. overall Wellness now back to the. program and then you write about in the. Public Square the humiliation and shame. that filled your soul can you read that. yeah the Public Square shame filled my. body humiliation filled my soul every. inch of my being crumbled I stood. humbled disgraced mortified in the. Public Square I heard the whispers could. she not have known not have seen she.

must have she couldn't have not poor her. poor them I could feel the stairs of. pity of scorn I tried to meet them but. eyes turned away I stood in the Public. Square a mere shadow of my former self. until I thought no no this is not how. it's going to go I'm going to rebuild. I'm going to discard I'm going to stand. in all that I am and carry on I'm going. to move forward make no mist mistake I. hear you I see you but you'll see your.

Whispers have nothing on. me and uh I I did you know I really. wanted uh to move. forward uh and I wanted to have a good. relationship with Arnold I wanted my. children to see me moving forward in. spite of the shame and the Betrayal you. wanted a good relationship I did because. I had been with Arnold since I was 21. he's the father of my children I wanted. to be able to go to our kids weddings.

when they have kids I wanted uh to be. the person that could be in the room and. everybody would be okay well this is and. that was really important to me well. this is what's so powerful about um all. the poems that you've written and also. so many times over the years and on this. podcast we talk about forgiveness and. how you forgive for yourself and you WR. in the section on healing you write.

these three lines if I forgive me I can. forgive him I can forgive her and so it. is all forgiven we are all free to. go I mean what did it take for you to. get to we all one of my uh shamans or. therapist said to me you know before you. can talk about forgiving another person. you have to look at forgiving yourself. and you have to go back and look at your.

own life and think about you know how. hard you've been on yourself and how. judgmental you've been of yourself and. begin the process of forgiving yourself. that's really some elevated thinking cuz. most people in the midst of betrayal are. just trying to get through the next day. well I think it's a long process you. know it's a long process but I think if. you begin to think about you know how. tough you've been on yourself how. judgmental you've been on yourself how. hard you've been on yourself cuz did you. go through what a lot of women go. through I'm asking this but I know the.

answer did you go through uh what else I. could have done it could have been. better and I wasn't a good enough life. and if I had done this differently and. that differently yeah go through that. for years yes yes absolutely and what. what did I miss and and to I think. Arnold's credit he's like nothing. there's nothing you could have done. better and of course I kept going around. and around you know and I think that. that's normal and I think it took me a.

really long time to forgive. myself um to forgive the whole situation. did you have to forgive yourself for. also what you didn't see because I think. one of the things one of the things you. talk about in The Whispers one of the. things that was so loudly whispered and. I would get so frustrated when people. would say this to me well you know. that's what the Kennedy women do yeah so. I'd lovey that Kennedy women do Kennedy. women first of all I'm a stver yeah I'm.

Maria yeah um but this idea of quote the. Kennedy women Kennedy women are strong. Ken Kennedy women keep the family. together Kennedy so many of those kids. whether it was Ethel or Jackie were. single mothers raising their kids uh so. to any woman who's been you heard that. this idea course I've heard it I've. heard everything you've heard I've heard. everything and I'd say 90% of what I've. heard 95 is never true and I think I. grew up with that also like to pay no.

attention to what you hear about anybody. so um and I think you know that had. something to do with how I ended up. where I ended up because I never paid. any attention to what I heard um so I. think that that always drove me crazy to. be referred to that way um because it. wasn't true and I considered myself and. consider myself a strong woman and I.

have met so many women uh and I've met a. many men right uh who go through. heartbreak wherever it is in life and. find a healing path forward and that's. the conversation I'm interested in. having with people because I think it's. there's nobody who gets out of life. without heartbreak there's nobody who. can stand at 70 and 80 and feel healed. or feel like that they're in the healing. Journey who doesn't try to process. forgiveness who doesn't go down that.

path and that's the that's the point of. this book is for not to talk about my. own story as much as kind of our. Universal heartbreak and that's a way. into conversations with other people I. think Arnold and I have a great. relationship now and I think there will. always be uh a love there right it's uh. I as as you said I met him when I was 21. years old he's the father of my children. we're grandparents together and um I.

don't want to have you know hate I don't. want to have anger in my body towards. another person I don't want that in my. life at all I don't and I don't I want. and there's so many events where you. absolutely have to be together yeah I. didn't want my kids to have separate. birthday parties I didn't want them to. stress about when they were going to get. married stress about when they would. have a child I didn't want. what happened between their dad and me. to you know ruin their lives it already.

causes a rupture in their life right but. I wanted to model for them a new way. forward and I hope they don't get. divorced because I believe in marriage. um but I want them to know that you can. do it well well I that's very I think I. think that's very rare and it takes a. special kind of person to do that and to. want to do that and to not to use use. what it happened to you to turn the.

children against their father and no I. and I'm not for one second did you do. that no and I'm not saying you know. every situation is different so I think. you know there are many people who can't. be in the room and I respect that there. are many people who don't want to be in. the room yeah and I I respect that I. respect that too who don't want to be at. the same birthday party who don't want. to have anything to do with the other. person I understand that and people have. told me unbelievable stories and um you.

know have come up to me a lot about the. ends of their marriage yeah marriages. and so I think everybody has their own. path and I would never say that my way. is the right way I can only say that. this has been right for me and it has. been right for uh my children you talked. about the two of you having. grandchildren together your. grandchildren call you Mama G how is. being a mama G different than being a. mama. well you know you have more. time uh you're they're not living with.

you right you're not in charge which I'm. told repeatedly so it's h i just play. and have fun and I want to help my. daughter I didn't live in the same city. as my mother when I had children and I. really regret that actually I I see uh. how wonderful it is for Katherine and. Chris that they have their whole family. around and are together all the time so. I have a play date you know myself with. my grandchildren and I just I love being.

a grand I feel so blessed love you. bringing them here the last time you. brought them here yeah there's a video. of you and Patrick uh that went viral. this year it's where he's telling you. that he got the part in White Lotus you. got. it what's it like watching your son have. a moment like this well I'm so uh proud. of him I'm really proud of all of the. kids you know that and um he has worked. so hard he's been in acting classes.

every single week for like 10 11 years. and he really wanted to do his acting on. his own you know there's all this knle. baby neple baby and he specifically. didn't want to go and get a job in one. of his dad's films he wanted to do. little films he wanted to do independent. films he wanted to find his own way he. goes out you know you see what he that. you see the role he got but hundreds he. didn't get you know every week he's like. not getting a job not getting a job not. getting a job so when he said you know.

I'm going to audition for White Lotus. I'm he goes but don't talk to me about. it because you know I probably won't get. it everybody's auditioning for White. Lotus and I was like oh okay and then he. never said a word about it so I just you. I didn't want to say anything because I. figured he didn't get the job because he. doesn't get most of the jobs right and. so when he said it he said it in a. restaurant on vacation I screamed so L. you said like out of the tears I was. just beside myself because I was like I.

I was just so happy for him I was so. excited that he was going to get this. opportunity and I was just that's why. that video blew up because it was so. natural it was so of everybody knew that. that was a real real moment because I. could see he he and his fiance who had. just gotten engaged were kind of. whispering I thought what's going on. what's going on they're like no we don't. want to say anything I'm like they're. pregnant oh my God they're going to be. pregnant before the way you know they're. like no no no we're not pregnant I'm. like well what is it you got you can't. just sit here and whisper in front of me.

and then when he said that I was just. like you know I was like levitated off. and Catherine started crying and she. didn't even know what we were talking. about she she was she didn't even know. he had auditioned because he didn't want. anybody so she's like what are we crying. about I was like Patrick got a roll in. White Lotus and I didn't know anything I. still don't know anything about the. role cougars. [Music]. hey.

hey we saw you guys on the boat. earlier you know and Mike White who's. the creator of that whole um uh series. just so fun to watch it's so fun and his. character I have to keep now saying like. he's not the character he's not that guy. but he's it's a great moment but he also. has his feet firmly planted on the. ground that he knows you know this is a. moment and then you'll have to go out. and get another job and then you'll have. to go out and get another job job and. then it'll go like this and I think he. saw his dad uh go through that he's seen.

people um he knows and respect you know. they have a moment then they don't and. then they have a moment and then they. don't and what do you have in your life. that keeps you in those moments when. you're not having a moment do you have. your family do you have other interests. do you have faith do you have a. gratitude practice do you have friends. that love you for you these are the. things that I try to stress to the kids. um all the time and I think he saw his. dad go through that and I think he has a.

pretty good head on his shoulders but he. also knows that you know it's a long. road he's young well you have done such. a beautiful job raising your children I. mean I know you have all of these. different roles but you're primary role. yes even as your friend as I see has. been that you have been the mother that. raised generous and kind children which. is a very hard thing to do in today's. world well I wanted that was a priority. forid was the priority and it continues. to be my priority I wanted them first.

and foremost to feel loved I wanted them. to feel like they were the. priority I I didn't get I they they do. there's no reason why they shouldn't. I've seen it over important to me that. they felt loved that they knew what love. was that their being wasn't less. important than maybe what their dad was. doing or what their larger family was. doing that's right that they were the. priority and that they were loved for.

who they were not for what they did I. certainly got the lesson that love was. attached to accomplishment and so I. wanted to do the opposite of that there. were many things of that my mother and. father did that I wanted and did emulate. but there were many things that I wanted. to do differently what of the. best lessons what is the thing that your. mother gave to you that you feel that. you're passing on to your children. strength she gave me Incredible strength.

she gave me incredible Faith she gave me. the lesson of family the importance that. family is everything and she would. always say you can have an argument with. your brothers but you Cann not be. forever mad at your brothers you know. they are what you have and she showed me. her brothers and her sisters were her. best friends and she showed me that um. and she showed me even you know I. remember when my Uncle Teddy got. divorced she stayed in relationship with. my Aunt Joan uh she stayed in.

relationship with my Aunt Jackie she. stayed in the family keeping the family. together laughing with her family and. prioritizing her family and she gave me. that she gave me she gave me so much she. gave me um a firm belief that I was here. for something larger than myself and you. write a poem about the fact that. you it was a pointment ATT tribute the. fact that you were able to explore and.

touch your vulnerability and femininity. in a way that she was not allowed or. certainly didn't feel that she could. never and I I have such uh I remember. when she was dying I took her hand and. you know my mother wasn't somebody that. touched you and she didn't hug you or. that just wasn't her way neither was it. my grandmother's way and I remember. taking her hand and saying you know you. did such an incredible job you know I.

love you and you can go because my. brothers and I work we're connected. we're tight we're good you did a great. job um and I want you to know that and. you know she died like 24 hours later. but as you know she was really. everything to me and her her voice was. tough her voice was tough but I know it. was tough on her too yeah now you know. that more than now I know that I know. how tough she was on herself and for 10. years your dad struggled with. Alzheimer's I I just so appreciate the.

point that you did for over a decade. when you watched him descend into. Alzheimer's yeah and you write about. this in in the piece called deep inside. I can you read that who knows what lurks. within the unknowing the knowing all are. one who are you he says I'm Maria your. daughter and The Light Within his eyes. flashes a smile crosses his face oh wow. says he I always wanted a daughter named.

Maria that's all true you know he'd be. constantly saying to me who are. you and I'd say I'm your daughter Maria. he's like you're my daughter I go yeah. I'm your daughter I'm Maria what was. that like for you to watch him to just. mindblowing disappear like that yeah. mind-blowing I use that word sometimes. people don't like that word associated. with Alzheimer's because you know your. brain is going but it's a mind-blowing.

disease which is why I've really spent. 20 plus years trying to find a cure for. it trying to educate people about it I. started nonprofits I've done. documentaries I've done everything you. can do to try to find a cure for. Alzheimer's to try to help other. families going through it so when you're. with a person who I've never have been. talk to anybody. who I knew um as well as I do you about. a family member going through it when.

they first start to not to know who you. are do you feel that they are still who. they are no and that's I think I learned. from my children you know it was a. struggle for me and it's different for. parents you know it's different for. spouses they have their own Journey. that's what I've learned is that when. you everybody in a family has a. different Journey with the person who. has Alzheimer's but you want them to be. who they were and you can't you know it. was very hard for me to see my father.

who was the smartest human being I had. ever met playing with puzzles that my. two and three-year-olds were playing. with it just I couldn't compute that it. just made no sense to me at all and my. kids were really helpful to me they were. like just accept him for who he is you. know he wants to play a puzzle let him. play a puzzle if he wants to just sit. there in the yard and not speak just sit. in the yard and so that was really a.

challenge for me um it was a challenge. for me to watch him become a different. person it was a challenge for me to. watch him not be who he was and I think. for everybody who has a loved one going. through Alzheimer's it's a really. challenging disease it's incredibly. expensive it's it's spiritually draining. it's emotionally draining it's. exhausting and it has yet to be become. kind of a national priority which I've. tried and many other people have tried.

to make it so and the numbers are. astounding the amount of people that are. getting it and we know so much more. about it today than we did when women. it's more prevalent than way more. prevalent with women and yet we have no. Research into women's Brains or women's. bodies or Women's Health Journeys and. I'm trying to change that with my. women's Alzheimer's movement is to. really try to understand particularly. what's happening in women's Minds brains. means it midlife you write though in I. am Maria that.

you sometimes still struggle to be truly. at peace with yourself yeah did writing. I am Maria bring you a sense of Peace. yes I find myself many days being at. peace right but it's and it's a total. inside job so some days I'm kinder to. myself than others some days I feel um. better about myself I don't feel like. totally healed or I got to the.

Mountaintop you don't no on a given day. I can but and then like maybe two days. later I hear my mother's voice like move. it along let's go what are you doing I. want to hear y out of yeah I don't want. to hear you know and so I think it's a. balance it's a balance of understanding. what I want in my life where I am in my. life I make uh time in my life now for. going and having fun going and looking. at the leaves Maria and I strength. training together at the G that's right. we looked at the leaves together those.

are things I wouldn't never have done. when my mother was alive CU I would have. been yes scared to tell her I'm doing. nothing but looking at the leaves with. Oprah I would have been she would have. been like what yeah remember that night. somebody you were talking about a friend. who was going to take a vacation with. themselves and your father was like who. ever heard of such a thing yes that's. and you like I didn't say I was doing it. was like afraid right so I feel um you.

know that I'm now much kinder to myself. I'm kinder to other people I'm more um. open with myself I'm gentler with myself. you think you understand now I asked. this question often on this podcast do. you think you understand now have a. greater understanding now of what it. means to have a well-lived life. absolutely yeah and I'm in it I'm I am. in it 100% And that's my goal to be as I. say in the open field I call it a wildly. authentic deeply meaningful life and.

yeah I was just going to say you end. with the piece title the openfield and. you say I'll meet you there yeah and. what I believe can you hand me the book. please what I believe is that all of. these all of these beautiful stories you. tell through your Petry are going to. open up the hearts of other people to. see themselves yeah I hope so that's why. I did it I I wrote it because I wanted. people to know that their heartbreak. does not define them that they can.

survive that they can heal and that they. can find their way home to themselves. that they can be a better more evolved. version of themselves that they can look. at their life kind of with a deep. appreciation all of it everything that. happened to them uh that they can look. at the people in their life with love. with acceptance with you know this great. appreciation that's kind of where I find. myself open field is what it represents. well the open field for me represents. you know it's it's a riff off of roomy.

you know where I'll meet you there it it. means I'm out Beyond shame I'm out. beyond the Public Square I'm out Beyond. guilt I'm out Beyond fear and I'm. standing there with people who love me. who accept me who love me for just being. Maria they don't love me for the family. I came from for the job that I'm doing. uh they love me for me and I'm standing. there I hope with my children who have. Love In Their Lives who have partnered. with them with my friends who have been. there with me the whole way through on.

the hotel room floor on the hotel room. floor and up yeah and and uh and I'm and. I'm there and I'm like wow this was one. hell of a life this was one hell of a. ride and I all of it the good the bad. the ugly all of it and all of it made me. me today and I feel more at home in. myself today than I have ever felt in my. entire life life I understand myself. better I love my parents at such a deep.

level I love my brothers I love my. friends I love my kids I'm grateful for. every step of the way and I'm hopeful. that I have more years to come where I'm. going to do things I've never done and. have experiences I've never had the fact. that you you have written a book of. poetry Maria yeah I know could you. believe this is something you have never. done I thank you and I know that so many. people are going to find comfort and I. know you you would appreciate this. because you and I both love Mary Oliver.

yes and I have Mary Oliver's uh poems. the book devotion oh yes the devotion. book by my bedside and now this will go. by my bedside I am Aria you know that do. you know that uh you sent me uh to go I. was the uh guest editor I don't know if. you remember this for a month of poetry. for a poetry edition of oh magazine I do. and I went down become friends with Mary. Oliver and I went. for interviewed Mary Oliver for the.

magazine down in Florida and when I was. first lady I had been trying to get her. to come to the Women's Conference and. she's like I don't do that I don't do. that stop calling me stop bothering me I. said but the journey the poem The. Journey it changed my life and it got me. thinking I could write poetry said do. your thing I'm not coming for you and I. went to meet her I went to listen to her. read her poetry I went and introduced. myself and I said you know I'm your. biggest fan please and she's like okay. I'll just stop with me already stop.

bothering me and she came to the Women's. Conference she read the journey she goes. I'll read one poem for you I said please. read the journey because the journey. changed my life and it made me think. what do I want to do with my one wild. and precious life and I knew when I was. on the floor of the hotel my one wild. precious life was not ending there my. one wild and precious life was going to. be in the open field and so when I told. her I was writing poetry and I read some. of it to her she said you're going to.

you're going to publish a book of poems. carry on and Mary Oliver said that Mary. Oliver so Mary Oliver and Emily. Dickinson you know I've got a lantern. and I'm out there looking for myself I'm. like yeah me too Emily me too so those. women really um with their words poetry. changed my life reading other women's. poems and men's poems too changed my. life and I'm hoping that these poems. will help people look within their own.

lives and will assure them that they. have the strength that they need within. to carry on Maria you got Americans. reading poetry that is a very big deal. that's big deal that's a big deal. Maria's book is called I am Maria my. Reflections and poems on heartbreak. healing and finding your way home it's. available April 1st anywhere you buy. books and Maria reads the audio version. I thank you to Lily direct for. presenting today's episode and I want to. personally thank you all our dear.

listeners for joining us here talk to. you next week I am Maria go well. everybody you can subscribe to the over. podcast on YouTube and follow us on. Spotify Apple podcast or wherever you. listen I'll see you next week thanks. everybody.