Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

Hi everybody. Thanks for joining me on. the Oprah podcast. I'm back with Mel. Robbins. Oprah Winfrey. [laughter]. And we're talking about something that I. know impacts so many of you, millions. actually, and some people very close to. me as well. Anxiety. Hey, it's your friend Mel and welcome to. the Mel Robbins podcast. Mel Robbins is a force. Her latest book, The Let Them Theory, spent 15 weeks on top of the New York. Times bestseller list and is being.

translated into 51 languages. Mel be dropping gems and I'm like, ah! Her podcast is followed by millions. [music]. and often lands in the number one spot. When I started my own podcast, Mel. Robbins was one of the first people I. called. You're never stuck. Never, ever, ever, ever, [music] ever stuck. Mel is back to talk about what feels. like the overwhelming emotion of our. times, anxiety. I want [music] you to never say, I have. anxiety. Ever.

We will unpack what anxiety actually is. All anxiety is separation anxiety. Answer your questions. What tools does the next generation. [music] need to cope with anxiety? How do you let go of your anxiety. and still keep [music] your edge? And hopefully give you the tools to calm. some of those runaway thoughts. I am a woman who has struggled. profoundly with anxiety and because I. didn't get control of it, I actually. made my daughter's anxiety worse. As Mel says, how to stay connected to.

your capability. And the decision that changed my life. was the decision. to get out of bed that morning. So, many of you may already know Mel's. personal story, but in case anybody. listening or watching doesn't know, you. struggled with anxiety in college. Oh my gosh. And law school. And how how how did it. start showing up for you? Oh, Oprah, I think I came out of the. womb as a worried and anxious child. Like I had a nervous stomach. I couldn't.

go to sleep over camp. And for college. and law school, I just was in a chronic state of feeling. stressed out. I was. not in my body a lot of the time. And. we're going to talk a lot about what. anxiety is and what it isn't. And I. didn't understand. what anxiety was in college and law. school. Okay. And so it you start to get afraid of it. Yeah. And then you dread it. And then it gets worse. Okay, you said we're going to talk about. what is it and what isn't it.

So anxiety. is just an alarm system in your body. That's all that it is. Anxiety rises. It's just like stress. So. if you have a if you have something. stressful going on at work today, you're. going to feel What would you feel if you. had a stressful day at work? Um I would feel maybe a little tension. I would feel a little sense of. anxiousness. Like got to get it done. [clears throat] Got to get it done. Uh-huh. Yeah. And. that's a sign that you're mentally well. Yeah. Because you have a lot of things going.

on. Right. And that stress is basically the same. thing as anxiety. Anxiety is what happens when your body. goes from a calm resting state. Yeah. into a tense and on edge fight or flight. state. And there's actually a lot of medical. research about this. You go from this. part of your brain, which is the. prefrontal prefrontal cortex, to the. amygdala part of the brain. Amygdala. turning on the stress response. And it. was helpful for me to learn that anxiety. is really switching from this part to.

this part of the brain in response to. something that's going on. The problem with anxiety is that it. starts to rise up. in situations where you don't really. know why you're anxious. It's like the. alarm is going and you don't know how to. turn it off. Well, why does it do that? One of the main reasons why it does it, at least for me, is I didn't understand. it. And if you don't know what anxiety is, you start to become afraid of it because. you're on edge all the time. You become anxious about the anxiety. Correct. And so, I want you to start to.

do one thing. I want you to never say, "I have anxiety.". Ever. Okay. Because then, you become defined by it. Okay. you to say either I feel anxious or I. feel alarmed because. of whatever the situation is. Correct. Got it. Because what happens with anxiety, Oprah, is that you have a moment where you feel. a little uncertain about something, whether it's work or a relationship or a. conversation or a day ahead or the. problems that you're facing.

And the uncertainty isn't the problem. And the alarm going off because there is. uncertainty isn't the problem. The problem is that you doubt. your capacity and capability to deal. with it. Exactly. And this is where. for that clarification. And and wait to hear this. Yeah. All anxiety, Oprah, is separation anxiety. This comes from Dr. Russell Kennedy, who. has a PhD and an MD and specializes in.

anxiety. All anxiety is separation. anxiety. Because what we do, and this is the. mistake I made for decades, is I would. feel on edge about something and then. I'd circle around I'm anxious I'm. anxious I I. and then I'd go up here, neck up. Uh-huh. And when you go neck up, up into your. thoughts, you start to think about how you're. feeling and the alarm gets worse. Yes. Yeah, one one begets the other. Begets begets begets. Now, here's where the separation part. comes in. Okay.

What are you separate from? Yeah, what? Yourself, your power, and source. Where is your power, yourself, and. source located? Not up here. Down here. The way that you actually deal with. anxiety, and I didn't know this. for 35, 40 years, is you don't go up. here. You actually drop into your body.

And your body has a on-off switch that. can turn off the alarm of anxiety. It's. called the vagus nerve. I didn't know. any of this. God, I wish I'd known this. I'm so excited for the person that's. here with us right now learning all. this. Anybody can turn the switch on or off. The vagus nerve runs from your seat. through every organ up through your. vocal cords to the top of your head. And if you know how to tone the vagus. nerve by you can press your hand on your. heart. You can breathe certain ways. The vocal.

cord It goes through your vocal cords. It's very hard to feel anxious in church. when you're singing a hymn. Why? Because as you're singing, it. stimulates the vagus nerve, which acts. like a tuning fork to tune to your body. that you're actually okay. And as you're. singing, you're not up here, you're. dropping into here and you connect back. with your power and with source and with. God and with your capability. to face anything in life. It's not up here, it's in here.

Correct. And most of us live up here and. are like, "What's going on?" And what's. And just like an alarm going off in a. house, screaming, "Alarm! Alarm! Alarm!". doesn't turn it off. Running out of the house doesn't turn it. off. Taking a moment and finding the switch. and switching it off. turns it off. And we're going to talk today about how. you can do that. in very, very simple ways and why it's. important. And when you do that, you. stay connected to your capability.

to face anything. And your power. Correct. That's right. You're not giving your. power away again. Correct. So our listeners who knew that you were. going to be here and uh they reached out. to us with questions for you about their. anxiety. So, Leah, hi. Leah is Hi is a business consultant from. Maryland, and how has anxiety impacted. you? Did you hear what Did you Were you able. to hear what Were you listening to Mel. when she was talking about up here and. not here?

Yes, and I definitely can feel that. buzz. Um that's something that was one. of the first identifications for me, that anxiety buzz, um internally. Um for. me was that indicator. Um as a child I was never an anxious. child, but as I got older, um I started. to realize a lot of things that Mel. shared about uh other people's worries. and concerns, and that started to create. a buzz in my own personal body um about. my own uh thoughts and my mindset. So, I. absolutely agree with that uh head uh.

conversation and not a heart. conversation. Yeah. Yeah, what's your question? So, my question for Mel, and thank you, Oprah, is how do you let go of your. anxiety. and still keep your edge and still keep. your, you know, your tenacity? So, it's a great question cuz I don't. want you to let go of your edge. Yeah. And here's the thing that I need you to. understand, though. So, anxiety, when the alarm goes off, where like let's say you have a huge. presentation, of course you're going to. feel anxious. And the purpose of anxiety.

when you flip into that sort of fight or. flight is to flood your body with all. kinds of different neurochemicals to get. your energy up and to get your heart. going so that you can pay attention. But if it sticks around, here's the. problem. The problem is that when you're in a. state where you're sort of on edge and. your nerves are starting to get to you. and you go up in your head, you escalate. it. And then when your brain switches modes, guess what? You lose your ability to think.

strategically. The reason why people. flub it when they're giving a. presentation and they're back You're. like, "Oh, I'm so nervous. I'm nervous. I'm nervous." And now you're up in your. head and you're now getting yourself so. worked up is not because you can't give. a presentation. It's because you got yourself worked up. and now you forgot everything that you. prepared because you're impacting your. brain function. And so I think that it is a mistake to. think that anxiety gives you an edge.

Because your body will always get a. little adrenaline. You'll always come. online and be more engaged when you got. to do something that you care about. What I want you to understand is in. those moments you're going to you're. going to do something called high-fiving. your heart. You're going to just put. your hand right in the center of your. chest. I want you to do this with me. right now. Okay, you ready? And I want. you to press so that you can feel it in. there. And then you're going to take in. a deep breath and the reason why we're. going to take in a deep breath and we're.

just going to do it for like 4 seconds. and then we're going to exhale a longer. breath. Let's do this together. So, I like to. close my eyes. We're going to press in. We're going to take a deep breath and. here we go. [snorts]. Now let's breathe it out. And then you're going to say to. yourself, "I'm okay. I'm okay. I'm safe. I'm safe. I'm loved. I'm loved and I'm capable of doing.

this.". And I'm capable of doing that. How do you feel? Free. Let me explain what just happened cuz. there's a little bit of science involved. here. First of all, by taking action. we stopped you from thinking. So, when you literally say to yourself, "Okay." You put your hand on your heart. and this is where the vagus nerve is. This is the on-off switch and you press. in. You are now taking action which means.

you're dropping into your body and. getting out of your head. Wow. When you breathe in and you know, there's a lot of breathing techniques. You can Google them. It doesn't matter. really. You can breathe in for 4. seconds, 5 seconds, whatever. The most. important part is breathe out longer. Because when you breathe out you're. breathing. out. You're pushing it out. You're. pushing it out. Yes. signaling. on that exhale. that you're actually in control. Yes, and you're releasing. Yes. Yes.

Yes. And when you say those mantras to. yourself, I'm okay. I'm safe. I'm loved and I am. capable. In that moment you actually are. That's right. And the only moment you're. ever living is this one right here now. Yes. Yes. And there's one more tool tool I'm. going to give you and this comes from. research at Harvard. I want you before. any presentation or any work thing that. makes you nervous to say, I'm excited. I'm really excited to give this. presentation. Yep. I'm really excited to. go in and talk to this client. I'm.

really excited to do this thing. Because the interesting thing about the. research is anxiety and nerves. is the exact same physiological thing as. excitement. Butterflies in the stomach. Mhm. You get them both times. Sweaty armpits. Nervous excitement. Racing heart, anxiety excitement. So, your body doesn't know the. difference between something that. excites you and something that actually. makes you nervous or anxious. So, instead of saying, "Oh gosh, I'm so. nervous. I'm so nervous. I'm so.

nervous." I'm really excited. Correct. Yeah. Leah, doesn't that make sense? Absolutely. It changes the way that I. feel in the moments that I'm. experiencing. Yes. And here's another cool thing. You know. how why You know why people get. butterflies in their stomach, Oprah and. Leah? I'm going to tell you why. Because when. you go into a stress respond or you feel. a little wave of anxiety, Yeah. it's signaling to your body first of. all, your fight or flight mechanism. kicks in. The amygdala takes over. and your stress response is now engaged.

and it has a really important purpose. because it's making you pay attention. At the same time, your biology changes. So, the blood that. is flowing through your entire body now. goes to your heart and your brain to get. you ready to do the thing. It's organizing you. And so, your the reason why you have. butterflies is the blood is leaving your. digestive tract. Ah. The reason why you always have to pee. before a presentation is if you're going. to have to run or do something, you. don't need a full bladder. This is your.

body getting ready. and most of us because we go up to our. heads and we separate. to pee. Yes. Okay, good. Yes. Most of us separate from self and. separate from power. Yes. and we go up into our heads and we go, "Oh my god, I got butterflies. I'm going. to screw this thing up." And no. Your body's just changing its chemistry. to help you actually pay attention so. you can do the thing you were hurt you. were planning on doing. Well, I just love that okay, I'm okay, I. am safe, I am loved. I'm I'm capable, I am loved. I just I.

just think that's powerful and I know. you're going to take that away as a. wonderful gem to hear today. Yes. Absolutely. I definitely have a new. thing to say every day when I wake up. Thank you. Awesome. Thanks, Leah. And you don't lose your. edge with that. No. You will not lose your edge, okay? gain it. You gain it. You gain it. Thanks, Leah. Will is a 22-year-old senior studying. mathematics at the University of. Chicago. Will, hi. Hey, Oprah. Hi, I'm Will. It's great to. be here. Thanks for having me.

How does anxiety show up for you? Yeah, so I think my primary experience. with anxiety or at least kind of the. fever pitch moment of it was in high. school. Um I had all these social. insecurities and academic worries and. so, I mean, what Mel said really. resonated with me because it kind of. just manifested into this like amorphous. blob of anxiety and fear. I kind of. compare it to like a low-budget horror. movie. Like if there's something. stocking me around the corner and it. sounds so scary, but like if I actually. peer around the corner and, you know, just put it down as regular problems,

it's really not that scary. Um. and so that's really how it's feeling up. for me and in college, too, as well as. high school. And so my question is, um I. think my generation, honestly even my. younger brother's generation, too, kind. of has this instant gratification. culture. um with social media and the like. And. so I'm kind of curious um Mel and Oprah. as well, uh what tools does the next. generation need to cope with anxiety? You're not going to like this. And this is for every generation.

Because what makes anxiety worse are. lifestyle decisions. When you look at your phone for 6 hours. a day, which is what the research says. the average person does, you are not. you're disconnected from self. And you're connected to a device that is. designed based on the algorithms to give. you intermittent dopamine reward. rewards. One of the reasons why most. people scroll constantly and you've been. talking a lot about this, Oprah, is that.

you don't see something great all the. time. So you're looking for that hit, that. fix, that thing. Yes. And because it's intermittent, it. keeps you on it looking for the next. thing. So number one, you have to get. off your phone. Because you're disconnected from self. when you're on your phone. Number two, most people stay inside all day. One way to connect to self and connect. to power is get outside and take a walk. The research is very clear that a. 10-minute walk without your phone, without listening to something, actually. connects you back to yourself. It opens.

up new ways of thinking. Anybody that. feels anxious, if you take a walk for 10. minutes outside, you will actually have. your mind stop racing. There's a concept. called forward ambulation, which is the. motion of things passing that opens up. your mind. And so that sleep, have you. been getting sleep? Are you drinking? Because the number one. symptom of a hangover is actually. anxiety in the morning. Wow. Because as you're processing alcohol. over the night and processing that sugar.

your blood sugar drops. and that combined with the rise of the. cortisol stress hormone in the morning. creates the anxiety that is part of a. hangover. Wow, I did not know that. Did you? I mean, I feel like with college. students it comes up a lot that people. go out and then they have homework to do. the next day, but I kind of I guess I've. conflated the two between homework and. Well, what's exciting about this is if. you ask your if you're somebody who said. who is feeling anxious because or the.

alarm in your body is ringing a lot, ask yourself, am I getting enough sleep? Do I get outside once a day? Am I off my phone? Am I cutting back on the drinking? people outside they're literally they. can't cross the street. They're on the. phone crossing the street. But I'm saying this not to be like a. pain, I'm saying this because there are. metabolic and lifestyle choices that. actually spike your anxiety. And if you are truly interested in. reconnecting with yourself and getting.

out of your head and flipping from this. fight or flight nervous system into the. parasympathetic nervous system, which is. your calm nervous system, you have. power. And so if you're anxious about something. that you can identify, that means that you're actually. functioning in a healthy way. because you're having a normal stress. response to being at a very uh you know, competitive college. It's normal to feel. stressed out. You should. You have a lot. of work. But if it's really impacting.

your life over and over and over again, you need to start to look at your. lifestyle choices because those are. actually making the anxiety worse. because they keep you up in your head. and they keep you disconnected from the. things in your life that actually ground. you. Well, I'm curious about the pressure you. feel as a young man today in college and. the pressure some of your friends might. be expressing as you know, men. functioning in in the world today.

Yeah, um I think that one thing that men. um in my generation but honestly in all. generations kind of struggle with is. taking care of our mental health like we. do our physical health. Um. Do you all talk about it? Does anybody. talk about it? I think it's very hard for men to get. into spaces where they can feel. comfortable and safe talking about it. and I don't think it has to be so scary. Um I take anti-anxiety medication on a. low dosage and I go to therapy and I. think they're wonderful things and I. treat them like I'm taking a protein.

shake or going to the gym but for my. mental health instead of my physical. health and a lot of my friends I think. have trouble kind of opening up that. mental side as if it makes them less of. a man and there are all sorts of crazy. like talking points you can fall into. there. And I think it's silly because I think. we become stronger when we take care of. our brains too. Um and so I I think that. the struggle is getting men into spaces. where they can feel comfortable talking. about it. Do you feel comfortable talking about it. with your friends? I think so. I have some friends. Um I.

I'd like to say. shared with me with us so openly. Have you shared that with your friends, your male friends? Yeah, I have a few friends in my. fraternity which is a group of men who. of course I feel uh very comfortable. talking about with um uh my emotions and. my anxieties and my stress. Um but I. think that's rare for men and I think. it's something that I you know, like to. see men be able to do more often. Well, thank you. Thank you for being so. open with us today. Thanks. Of course. Thanks and good luck in school. Thank you so much. I really appreciate.

it. One thing I wanted to say about. medication is that there is a lot of. stigma around taking it. And here's how. I look at it. You wouldn't feel bad about taking. insulin if you were diabetic. You wouldn't. Withholding. to have it. Correct. Withholding a medication. that can help you get out of a hole. or serve as a bridge to healing, withholding that from yourself is a form. of self-harm. Hm, powerful.

And so I'm proud of you for showing up. and talking about it, and I'm proud of. you for recognizing that this is a. moment in your life where you need the. support of that. Yeah. And by just having somebody show up and. talk about it and normalize it, it does. help people understand. that's another powerful way of looking. at it, that withholding it from yourself. is actually causing self-harm is another. form of self-harm. Yes. Good to be. reminded of that. Stephanie, hi. You I. know you work with children with special.

needs and you're in you're in Louisiana. I am. Yeah, and you say anxiety is your. superpower. That's what the producer. told me. Tell me why. I had to come to that point in my life. to where it became that. Of course, when. it first showed up in my life when I was. 6 years old, I didn't know what was. going on. Um I did have some stressors. that were going on that were out of my. control, which I think contributed to. the anxiety showing up. I think I was.

also predisposed. I come from a long. line of. um anxious women, but. you know, I had to push myself um to do. things uh. you know, that um shouldn't have been. hard. Uh and I remember having. conversations with myself at such a. young age saying, "Okay, I'm either. going to let this conquer me and I'm. going to just lie down and, you know, give up or I'm going to have to push.

through, and um. really show what I'm made of. um because it was bad. So, I started viewing it as my superpower. because I knew that. I was going to have to look at it that. way, or it was going to. destroy me. You know, I started taking. medication in my late 20s to help with. my anxiety, and it was a game-changer. Um I have a 12-year-old daughter now.

who 2 weeks ago we made the difficult. but very necessary decision to put her. on um anxiety medication as well. And my question is, what conversation. should I have with her about this? And. what should I share with her about my. journey um with anxiety? Well, this is a tough one because I. really screwed this up. As a mother, I take full responsibility.

for making my child's anxiety. 100 times worse. 100 times worse. The single best thing you could do for. your daughter is to get. control of and heal your anxiety. Because if you are somebody who is. anxious, and let's break apart what is. the definition of anxiety, I call it an. alarm, thanks to Dr. Russell Kennedy, but it is really a moment where you feel. uncertain, and then you doubt your capability to.

handle it. That's all that it is. And. so, you I'm not a therapist, I'm not a. medical doctor. I am a woman who has. struggled profoundly with anxiety, and. because I didn't get control of it, I actually made my daughter's anxiety. worse. She would come down because she. didn't want to stay in her bedroom at. night, and she would then climb in bed. with me. And it just kept happening and happening. and happening cuz she would put up a. fuss, and then that would trigger my. anxiety and my alarm system and I didn't. know how to handle it. So, she slept on.

the floor of my bedroom for almost a. year. And here's the thing. Do you want to. know what you what I taught my daughter. by allowing her to do that? I taught her. you're not capable. Yes, that's what you're saying. something that's difficult. That's what you say and let them. Yes. And so, here's what I want you to. do. I am so happy that you're getting her. help. But, I want you to really double down on. the fact that you are capable. You, yes. you, are capable.

You are capable of facing moments in. your life that feel difficult. You are. capable. of facing things that scare you. And when you do that. Not only are you capable, you have. Correct. it. You have done it. You have done it. And so, I don't want. you to tell her it's your superpower. I want you to go deep into healing and. turning this alarm off and reminding. yourself in every moment you are. capable. I have been capable. I can.

quiet this. I can be the woman in this. lineage that actually heals this. And I can do this because I'm not going. to allow my daughters to learn this as a. coping strategy. Mhm. in moments of uncertainty. And so, I. want you to take an approach that look, I screwed this up. That's why I'm trying. to save you from like doing this. I. really did. Like she got to the point. where she didn't want to go to school. She got to the point where I couldn't. leave and go anywhere. She had to be.

near me because I taught her. through me not putting my arm around. her. And that's how I want you to think. about this. Put your arm around her. and walk with her. and say, I know this is scary. I know. this feels uncomfortable. And I'm going to be by your side, but. you are capable of facing this, honey. And the calmer you are, the more she's going to believe it.

What's coming up for you right now? Well, you know, we are going through the. not wanting to go to school, um the stomach aches, uh. About 2 months ago, the school called. and said, you know, you've got to come. get her. Um she was in class, felt like she got. in trouble, and um couldn't. get it together. Can I make another suggestion? This is really important.

Yeah. Have you ever been tested for ADHD? Um yes, I'm very ADHD. Okay, so this is why I'm going to say. something. Yeah. There is an entire lost generation of. women, Oprah, that. we have been diagnosed with things like. anxiety in their [clears throat] teens. and their 20s, and the underlying problem was dyslexia, dysgraphia, or ADHD. When they studied. She has um auditory processing disorder. Okay, so here's what I want you to. understand. You have a child.

who is facing a lot of stress, and the response to auditory disorders. and neurodivergent issues, the response of feeling an alarm. means she's mentally well. I'm serious about this. Like we got to we got to stop looking at. somebody's nerves as a sign that. something's wrong. If you're in a stressful situation cuz. you sit in a classroom and it's hard for.

you to focus, it means you're mentally well. And so, you're doing an incredible job. as a mom because you're talking to the. professionals, and you are getting her. the support that she deserves, and. that's fantastic. And what you have an opportunity to do. is to also build the resilience in her. by reminding her that this stress that. it's going to keep coming up, honey, because you're this is a thing that. we're going to work on together, but. you're capable. Okay, so when she said.

Stephanie was saying earlier, should she. tell her about how much she she tell her. about her story? I would tell her your story. and I would tell her that you understand. how difficult this is. Right. And that you have learned. to. face things that are very difficult and. that you have become very strong and. that you know she is. and that you're going to be there every. step of the way, but there is the.

leading psychologist Dr. Luana Marques. at Harvard Medical School. The number one symptom when somebody. starts really struggling in the way that. you're talking about, particularly. children, is avoidance. Yes. Avoidance. And in instead of running. from things. Avoidance or doing what you did, trying. to fix it. You don't want to be the bad. mom. She wants to sleep in the same room. with you, so it's like come on, but. otherwise you feel bad saying go back to. your bed. Right. And that's the same thing, it's. avoidance. You're avoiding having to go.

through this with her. I want you to. understand you have the ability to rise. You have the ability in these moments. to really recognize, okay, you know, we've got the stress response. happening and I'm going to remind my. daughter she is capable. And we can rise together through this. and you're going to tell her your story. simply to say, I know how difficult this. is. You're not going to add any more drama. on it and you're going to say, and I. also know. that you're stronger than you feel right. now. Yeah. And I'm going to be there with you.

Mhm. And I also know. that you can do this. And when you. display that calmness, she is going to. feel that and believe it. And it's going. to take time. Like you have to give. yourself so much grace. But you can do this. You can do this. Yes. Um and she's taught me so much, you. know, through this. Um and I. I'm just so thankful. um. for you guys and and talking about this.

because there you know, it's a lonely. place to be um whenever you struggle. with anxiety. And I think I didn't talk. to her about it and I haven't really, you know, gotten in depth talking to her. about it because I in some crazy way I. would thought I was protecting her. because if I didn't give her the idea. that this could be an issue. she it wouldn't happen to her. You know, and this wasn't happening. She just had. a she just had an episode. you know better. Now you know better. And I think.

I think what's been shared here will. help you begin to develop the tools to. do better. That is that is what my hope is for you. Thank you so much, Stephanie. much. Thank you. Thank you. Can we talk for a moment about how we. begin to process the barrage of negative. news and. everything that shows up on our phones. and I think it's really overwhelming to.

a lot of people and creating anxiety for. people. I know I've just shut it down. So. how how how do we start doing this for. ourselves? Like is there a certain. amount of time every day we should put. the phone down? So there's a difference between being. informed and inundated. Mhm. And if there's something really. important happening in the world, people. will be talking about it. Mhm. So you do not need to be checking the. news. That is the truth. And right now. I'm going to hear it from Gail.

eventually. Yes. Yes. no, but I mean it. Like watching Gail's. one thing. Yeah. Reading the headlines on your phone is a. totally different game. Yeah. Because those headlines are written as a. way to bait you to stay online more. Why? That's right. Because they make money when you stay. online. The headlines are baited to get you to. go to be the whole story and you become. so distracted. Yes, and also the more you stay online, the more money platforms make. So. they're incented to write scary. headlines because it entices you to. click because of something called the. curiosity gap.

Mhm. So it is critical that you understand. that the phone and the internet is a. tool, but you've become the tool. And if you don't have boundaries with. your phone, and I'm only going to give. you one of them. Yeah. Because most people won't listen to this. anyway. And then they're going to complain about. how stressed out and overwhelmed they. are. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The number one tool is this, don't you. ever, ever, ever sleep with your phone. You have to put your phone in the. bathroom. And the reason is simple.

I'm not even going to talk about all the. studies about how the phone in the room. simply next to you interrupts your. sleep. I'm going to talk about something. that happens when you wake up. So the. phone's next to you, right? And you're. lying in bed. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, the alarm goes off. And you pick up the phone. And here you are. Yeah. You aren't even vertical yet. And you have just allowed the world news. and a thousand strangers on Instagram to. walk into your bedroom.

You're checking emails and text messages. and you wonder. why you're stressed out and exhausted. You're not even out of bed. And you have put all this other stuff in. your brain, which means. you are now. the last thing on the list. And if you lay there and start scrolling. and it activates your stress response. It absolutely takes longer to get out of. bed. Correct. And anxiety is higher for. people in the morning, Oprah.

And there are scientific reasons why. this is true. And by the way, I also. want to share something cuz I think it's. important to know that if you grew up in. a traumatic household. or you experienced abuse, poverty, bigotry, racism when you were little, you had a chaotic experience, you would. wake up in the house and you didn't know. what was going to happen and you were. going into a school, as you know, because of the work that you've done. with Dr. Bruce Perry, this is stored. trauma. So, if you're waking up in the morning. and the first thing you experience is. anxiety, it is a sign of stored trauma.

That's why a lot of people have anxiety. first thing in the morning. It's stored trauma. Yes. Yes, and laying in bed. and staring at the ceiling, this is this. was my rock bottom moment. When I was 41. years old, my husband and I found. ourselves $800,000 in debt. And. I lost my job. We had three kids under. the age of 10 and I could not get out of.

bed. The alarm would ring and it was like. the anxiety was a gravity blanket. I. would lay there like a human pot roast. marinating in my problems, my fears, like how we were going to get out of. this. And I'd start thinking about it. Meaning I'm ruminating now on the. problem. theories came about? Yes. Yes. And so, one night I got this idea. I it's divine. intervention. I was giving myself a pep. talk. I I don't know if you've ever. gotten to a point in your life where. things are really so low you're talking.

to yourself out loud. Yes. I mean, that's a low moment. That is. And I'm like, that's it, Mel. So, our warning, woman, it's a new you. You know, you got to stop drinking so. much. You got to you got to stop. screaming at your husband. You got to. call your parents. You got to get a job. You got to get these kids on the bus and. by God, woman, when that alarm rings, you have got to get out of bed. You. cannot hit that snooze button six times. And at that moment, a rocket ship. launched across the television screen.

And I was like, it's a sign from God. Five. Four. Three. Two. One. Go. When that alarm rings, you're going to move so fast, you're not going to be in that bed when. that anxiety hits. And that very next morning, it was a. Tuesday. in February. in 2008, outside of Boston, Massachusetts. You're. one decision. from a different life. And the decision that changed my life.

was the decision. to get out of bed that morning. Wow. And there is this moment of hesitation. It's It's It's this window of time, Oprah, where. you have this thought, right? Where you know what you should or could. do. And you stop and you think about whether. or not you want to. And it's in this. 5-second window of thinking, you go up. Yeah. about what you want to do and whether or. not you feel like doing it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't want to I don't I don't How's. this going to help? This is where.

anxiety comes in. This is where all the stress comes This. is where procrastination comes in. And so, that morning, I remembered the rocket launch, but I. stopped and I started to think. And this. moment of hesitation opens up. And I. felt myself reaching. for the snooze button, like I had done. so many mornings, because I was in this. anxiety cycle, which makes you avoid. things. It makes you run away from. things. Was this before or after the TED Talk. where you had a panic attack? This is what led to it. Yeah.

So, I literally. felt myself going I I. How's this going to help? I'm $800,000. in debt. I don't feel like getting up. I'm so anxious. How's this a. And then I went 5-4-3-2-1, and I stood. up. And something interesting happened. When you move, you move from here to here. From here to here. You stop thinking and you do. Yeah. And the action overrides the swirling. thoughts and sensation and reconnects.

you with your power. And that was the beginning of an. entirely new life. It was how I started. to cure my anxiety and heal it and stop. responding to uncertainty. by doubting my capacity and capability. to deal with it. And anybody can develop this skill. Where you find yourself in a moment. where you hesitate and you start to. doubt yourself and you start to feel. anxious and you just go 5 4 3 2 1 and. you push through it and you take the. next right step. And that first step is.

counting backwards. And what I know now. because this has spread around the. world, it is used in clinical settings, it's incredible for OCD and PTSD. I know. of over a thousand people have stopped. themselves from committing suicide. Wow. Because they counted 5 4 3 2 1 in that. moment after they hesitated. And also what you shared with us today. to be able to. Put your hand on the heart and you can. lay in bed if you feel yourself swirling. and go. I'm okay. I'm safe. I'm loved and I'm.

capable. 5 4 3 2 1. Let's go. Let's go and the action proves that you. are. The action quiets the mind. The action. aligns the emotion in your body with. forward momentum. And just like a. domino, that first one that tips can tip. the second one, but those two then can. tip something 10 times its size. And move you in a different direction. Correct. Absolutely. And so I counted 5 4 3 2 1 all day long.

every day and it became a tool to help. me push through those moments. Avoid procrastination. Correct. Yes. Correct and that's what turned my life. around. Well, thank you for being Mel Robbins. who's turning so many other lives. around. Thank you for your book, "Let. Them", and I thank you Leah, and Will, and Stephanie for being vulnerable and. sharing with us. Um, you all had great. questions for Mel. So, Mel's phenomenal. book, best seller it is. We knew it.

would be. The "Let Them" theory is. available now wherever you buy your. books, and of course. she's the host of the hugely popular. so popular Mel Robbins podcast. Thanks. again, Mel. I always love talking to. you. Well, I always love talking to you, and. I love seeing you dominating in the. podcast shows. Welcome. [laughter]. Thank you. Thank you. You can subscribe to the Oprah podcast. on YouTube, and follow us on Spotify, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen.

I'll see you next week. Thanks, everybody.