Oprah and Iyanla Vanzant on Daily Care for Your Spiritual Hygiene

Somebody else can't learn their lessons. in your life. Only you can. >> Somebody else can't learn their lessons. in your life. And if you don't enjoy your life, your. mother's misery will. So you got to enjoy your life. Church is. over. [Applause]. [Music]. Welcome to the Oprah podcast. Hello to.

this beautiful audience of our listeners. in NEW YORK CITY. I JUST LOVE SAYING NEW YORK, NEW YORK. It's great to be here even on a rainy. day. So I want to ask the audience just. a few questions. Um. Am I seeing clearly? Ask yourself that. Am I seeing clearly. or through a lens of pain? Am I trying. to control, fix, or rescue. anybody other than myself?

Am I present enough to sit with what is? All of these questions are in Iyanla. Vanzant's new book that she asks us to. ask of ourselves. So, what's missing, what my guest calls divine freedom, is. what's missing from so many of our. lives. She says, "We each have a sacred. responsibility and it's our job to find. out what is that responsibility." She is. one of the most powerful spiritual.

teachers, healers, fixers in the world. Iyanla Vanzant has written a book called. Spiritual Hygiene. A practical path for. clean living, for inner authority, and. for divine freedom. What even is divine. freedom? Whatever it is, I want some of. that. Please help me WELCOME IYANLA. VANZANT.

BEEN A WHILE. A LONG TIME. >> Been a while. >> It's been 6 years since we sat together. >> Since we've seen We talk and text and. all that. >> God bless a text. Yes. God bless a text. >> But my lord, I haven't seen you. >> Yeah, but you looking good. >> And are you not? Just want to know. One. [Applause]. Iyanla Vanzant. is a world-renowned spiritual teacher, best-selling author, and the fixer who.

suffers no fools. You may have lost your femininity, but. you found your in that moment, right? >> Yes. I first met Iyanla on the Oprah Winfrey. show. If you don't have a test, you. won't have a testimony. And so when you. have a challenge. You are an adult. She hosted eight. seasons of the hit show Iyanla Fix My. Life on OWN, the network. >> Go get you a BOB, a battery-operated. boyfriend.

And this January 17th, make sure to. check out Iyanla's return to OWN. I've. come to unpack. >> With her powerful new series, Iyanla: The Inside Fix. I want to share how you begin spiritual. hygiene because it's such a helpful. analogy, I think. You say, "You brush. your teeth and you wash your body every. single day. We do, right? You can see. all these people are all brushed up in. here. To prevent diseases and stay.

clean. But what do you do every day to. heal your soul? I love the term spiritual hygiene. How. did it come to you? Well, really. it's something that I had done just. checking in with my mind, my heart my. body every single day. and. to stay clean. Yeah. And I knew when I. was dirty. When I was feeling dirty, thinking.

dirty, behaving in dirty ways. We won't. have that conversation. Uh but I don't know, maybe 10, 15 years. ago, I said, "Okay, let me do my. hygiene. I got I got to be on top of my hygiene.". Born into poverty, Iyanla Vanzant, whose. birth name was Rhonda, says her mother. was an alcoholic and died when she was 3. years old. Iyanla was raised by her. grandmother, who Iyanla says neglected. and physically abused her. At age 9, Iyanla was raped by an uncle. She became.

a mother at 16 and by the age of 21, Iyanla was raising three children. In 2003, Iyanla Vanzant lost her eldest. daughter, Gemmia. She died from a rare. type of colon cancer at the age of 31. And in 2023, Iyanla's daughter, Nisa, passed away. She was 48 years old. Iyanla also has a son, Damon. Gemmia had good spiritual hygiene. Nisa,

on the other hand, did not. And I began. to say, "You've got to clean that up. You've got to clean that up.". And so. it kind of stuck. One of the things you. say in the book, I mean, it really when. I read the sen- sentence where you say, "I can't bury another child.". >> do it. But Iyanla has lost another. child. She lost her daughter, Nisa, 2. years ago. >> Yeah. And it's the interesting thing you. say in the book that you weren't. prepared for the first loss of Gemmia.

And then when Nisa became ill and you. realized that she was going, tell us. about that. >> I Because I had good spiritual hygiene. One thing spiritual hygiene does is it. gets you clear. Yeah. You don't see. through distortion or illusion. And the. key ingredient of spiritual hygiene is. truth. You tell the truth. So just based. on what I was seeing and sensing and. feeling, I said, "Oh my god, she's not. going to make it through this." I knew.

it. >> What was she going through? Diabetes. But she was a non-compliant diabetic. She was in total denial. So she wouldn't accept the fact. And I. taught her that, Oprah. I talk about. that in the book. I taught her that. anything less than perfection and. performance cannot be tolerated. And so she wouldn't acknowledge, she. wouldn't care for, she wouldn't do what. was required to manage and to embrace.

the diabetes. So she she she was. non-compliant. And so many people are. Right. I know. I had a mother who shot. insulin every day and every now and then. you'd see her sitting in the kitchen. eating coconut cake. And you're like and. she you know, in our culture, a lot of people just. think it's a little sugar. Oh, I got a. little sugar. Sugar. Got to handle my. sugar. >> I want to tell you this not to freak you. out or gross you out. Um it took me a. minute to process. Nisa died at home. Um on the sofa.

by herself. with a half gallon of fruit punch. in her hand and a container of honey. roasted peanuts right by her side. As a diabetic? >> As diabetic. Wow. That must have been really challenging. hard for you as the fixer. You've done. hundreds of shows. You've helped.

thousands of people and in your own. family, your daughter, your baby girl, you weren't able to get her to see clear. enough to do it for herself. >> On social media, people were saying, "Oh, she lost another kid. She trying to. fix everybody." You know, that thing is. so mean. >> Yes. >> And and oh yeah, "I told you she was a. fraud. I told you she was a fake." And I. saw that just accidentally and I said, "Oh, I see. They think they're going to. stop me." But you know, one of the.

things that I talk about in spiritual. hygiene is our greatest challenges come. not from the outside, from the inside. >> Yes. Inside you, inside your family, inside your marriage, inside your circle. of closest people, those are the things. that you have to address. Like I didn't. go to Nisa's funeral. I didn't go to my. daughter's funeral. I didn't go because her son was. emotionally unsafe for me. He was just out of his mind and his. grief and in his whatever. So I did not.

go to my daughter's funeral and ask me. if I care what people think about it cuz. had he lost his mind and jumped on me, I. would have been beat up and they just. would have been shocked. So you got to be clean on the inside so. that you can address those things when. they come from the outside. And you were. ready to address it. I was really ready. to I Like I said, the spiritual teacher. in me knew she was going to die. I knew. it. I could see it.

The mother was hysterical, okay? And. she's running around with her hair on. fire trying to do every Here, rub this. crystal on your head, lick this stone. What can I do? Praying all day. Yeah. But the spiritual teacher knew this is. her choice. This is her lesson. Mind your business. and just be present for her. That's all. you can do because I would much rather. have been present for her than have her. push me away because I'm telling her, "Read this book. Take this thing. Do.

this." I did that for a while and it. just didn't work. Yeah. And so to bury. yet another child. did that nearly break you? Or were you more prepared? >> I knew how to do it this time. I know that sounds crazy. When Gemmia left her body and I had to. bury my first child my best friend. she was my best friend. Mhm. But that was many years ago. Many years. ago. >> Mhm. It doesn't seem like it as a mom.

It seems like last Tuesday, Mhm. but. it's been 21 years now. Mhm. So, spiritually, she was complete. She. did what she came to do. Mhm. Mhm. Um. so, when she passed, so much. I didn't know. When Niesa passed, I remembered, I know how to do this. Mhm. You don't have to do everything by. yourself, Y'all call somebody. You don't have to figure everything out. Get some help. Mhm. I knew how to do it.

And so very often, one of the reasons we. have spiritual hygiene, poor spiritual. hygiene, is because we meet every. challenge as though it's new. Mhm. >> You've been left before. You've been disappointed before. What. did you learn that time that you can use. now? We meet every challenge with a. hellfire. What is that? Mhm. >> Listen. This is your third breakup. Act like you done broke up before. [Laughter]. What has the grief and loss of two.

daughters taught you? How much I can. love. Grief is such a powerful teacher. Grief is such a powerful healer. Grief is such a powerful lesson. It teaches us how the heart can contract. and expand at the same time. Mhm. Contract because of the hurt and the. ache, but expand because you have to. learn how to love the unseen. I still. love my babies. Those are still my. babies. I love them deeply. And now,

grief takes you out of the attachment of. to physical. I'm not attached to the physical. anymore. Now, I'm loving them heart to. heart, soul to soul. Mhm. Grief taught. me how to do that. Uh because I couldn't. grieve forever. I had to come out of it. What impact did this have on Damon, your. son? Well, you know what it's funny about. Damon. Damon I had Damon when I was 16. We grew up together. So, almost everything I learned as I.

learned it, I was teaching it to him. We grew up attached at the hip. And I've. always told Damon the truth. And when. Damon had his challenges in life, I'll never forget the day he called me. and he went off. I mean, I was just a. wretched of the earth, child, please. He. was all, "You did this and you didn't do. that and you did this.". And everything he said was true. But as a mom, I had to hear it with. spiritual ears. And when he finished.

lambasting me, I said, "Tell me how I can do it different now.". Wow. I didn't defend. I didn't explain. I had. had a little spiritual hygiene by then. I said, "Tell me how I can do it. different now.". Cuz I couldn't go back and clean up Mhm. what I did as a frightened, guilty, crazy 16, 17-year-old. And you know what he said? He said, "Stop being my mother and just be my. friend.".

And that's what I did. Now, now he's older, I'm older. Now, I. can be his mother again cuz I got good. sense. Mhm. Uh but back then, I was. healing myself. You know, all of my infectious diseases. of my mind and heart, I visited upon my. children. I have to tell the truth about. that. And Niesa struggled the most because she. was my greatest mirror. >> really why you've written the book is. Exactly. want to stop other people in. their tracks of doing that and passing. it on to their children. There's a. chapter in there, spiritual hygiene for.

parents. >> Yes. Because I. her lesson was different and and her. choices were different. Uh but I can see. the contributions that I made to her. dysfunction and destruction. Her choice was to hold on to it. Cuz she had choices. She could have healed it. She didn't. That was her choice. And you were able to let that go.

>> I had to. You write in the book so. candidly. I mean, wow, you open up your. soul and you say, "I failed my. children.". >> my children. I think I've said that publicly many. times that I was a horrible mother. Horrible. I was a great father. I was a horrible mother. Mothers nourish, nurture, teach. Mothers affirm. I didn't do that. I. protected. I provided. That's what dads. do. I was a horrible mother. When I.

recognized I failed my children from the. perspective of spiritual hygiene, was. because I denied my pain. I ignored my. pain. I covered it. I called it. something else. I put myself in unclean, unhealthy, unproductive situation, dragging my kids along with me, and. expected them to stay quiet about it. I. lived for 9 years in an abusive marriage. and never told to my children about it. Mhm. Expected them to see their mother. with a black eye, a busted lip, cooking.

franks and beans. So, I taught them to lie. I taught them. to deny. I taught them to avoid. I. mirrored it for them. And then, that's. what they did. That's a failure on my. part as a mother. As I was reading your. book, I thought, "So many families could. be healed if parents would just. admit the truth to their children. because they can't say, 'I made a. mistake. I was wrong.'". >> We're taught that it's bad to be wrong, that you're bad if you're wrong.

>> Oh. Just in in general, you're bad if. you're wrong. I mean, if you make a. mistake on your taxes, the IRS penalizes. you. Yes. You know, if you make a. mistake in doing anything, I think that's such an interesting. distinction, don't you all? The. difference between being wrong and being. bad. That you can be wrong And and miss. It's a mistake. >> mistake. >> Yeah. But we live in a law and. punishment society where it you're. afraid. This society is set up where you're.

wrong if you tell the truth. Really. If you tell the truth, you're. wrong. And if you're wrong, you're bad. Mhm. So, people don't want to tell the. truth. I had to tell the truth because. looking at my children and all I thought. I had done for them, and looking at what I was looking at, Yeah. What the hell happened? Mhm. You. know? You, boo. You happened. Don't look at the fruit, look at the. tree. But all of those failures, this is. what I love about what you write in.

spiritual hygiene. All of those failures. have brought you to a more clear. understanding of who you are now and you. have used those failures. You've used. that pain to create power and spiritual. awakening in your own life. >> And hopefully in the world. >> Yes. Because one of the things that I. think is killing this country, the world. in general, is dishonesty. And people. will look at somebody telling them a lie. and grin. Mhm.

Yeah. >> What the hell? Yes. That's a lie. Mhm. Now, you don't. have to say it like that. That's not. spiritually. Uh you know, you have to find a better. way to say that. But the truth is just. so uh contaminated today. Uh and and. that's poor spiritual hygiene. We don't. tell ourse- That dress is too short. Go. somewhere and sit down and take that. thing off. We won't even say that to. ourselves. Yeah. And then, we lie to. each other. This whole thing, catfish.

The catfish thing. Where the people you. be having a rela- And the peo- They're. not really real. That's spiritual. hygiene bad. >> Yes, bad. And so, people won't tell the truth and. truth is a key element of clean living. and divine freedom. Wow, divine freedom. What is it When I. was describing that and I was asking the. audience to think about the questions. that you ask in the book, what does. divine freedom The freedom God gave us. The freedom to be who we are. We are programmed and conditioned to.

perform. There's probably people sitting. in this room right now. I ain't talking. about I'm not going to look at anybody. in particular. >> who got all kind of wahala and. conglomeration going on in their life, but they'll go out in the street Yeah. and somebody will say, "How you doing?". "Fine. I'm good." No, you're not. Now, you don't have to spill your guts out to. everybody you see, but just we've lost. that level of connection and trust. where you can say to somebody, "I need. help.". And you don't say that long enough.

That's why. suicide rates are up. That's why things like diabetes is up. Lack of joy. We we we we taught to. perform. God gave us. everything that we need to be a unique. and a divine expression of God. And we. walk around. selling and camouflaging what we think. are faults. And you write that. practicing. uh spiritual hygiene. has brought you to another level,

actually, of consciousness where. everything is energy. Everything. And. understanding that. Can you explain what. that means? Everything is energy because energy, frequency, vibration. Energy is the essence of life. It's the. movement of life. It's the flow of life. that manifests both physically and. visibly, but intangibly and invisibly. So, we are perform at the physical. level. Make yourself look nice. Do this. Do do do do do. But it's at the.

invisible level, the being level, where. everything is born. Somebody gets pregnant, they don't get. pregnant on the outside. They get. pregnant on the inside. And that energy. is in there. That life force is in. there. And the egg and the sperm and. they doing all their little. wonderfulness to make the human being. That's all invisible. Energy. It's there. We are so. to the physicality, the third dimension. If I can see it, so what happens is we. get to doing. We do do do do do and.

forget about our being. Mhm. Our being. is what sets us free. Well, this is what's so interesting, how. you've been able to use everything. that's happened in your life to become, as I was introducing you, one of the. great spiritual teacher healers in the. world. And I know so many people are. here because they want to talk to you. And Camry, Camry. Hi. Question, right? Yes. So, I built a life becoming an. author, a speaker, an advocate for. people who are often hidden in plain.

sight. And I thought healing. others would be a way of healing myself. So, I have I watched you guys for a long. time talk about daddy-less daughters. And I grew up without my father. And a part of me thought I was healing. that part by, you know, healing other. people. Until I realized that once I got older, he started having one child and two. child and three child and four child. that he was being a father to. Your.

father. >> Yes. And he had never been present for. me. So, that brought a new level of. grief that I thought that I had healed. like that little girl who was without. her daddy. I thought that part was. healed until I saw you present for all. these other little babies you got. running around. So, how do you and. >> I? How I'm sorry. How do I I know you. spoke about the grief that you have when. you lose someone physically, but when. he's 10 minutes up the street, how do I begin to grieve the loss of. someone that is here physically?

Well, is it a loss or is it a. disappointment? You got to get clear about what it is. that you're trying to heal. You haven't lost him. He's there, but. you're disappointed in the way he shows. up, which means you have an expectation. that daddy would do this, that, or the. other. Mhm. Would that be accurate? Yes, because he he was never present. So, yeah, it it's a disappointment that. you were never there. Absolutely.

How do you know that's not a good thing? I'm a parent. And I know that I can't go. a day without my babies. But that's your experience. >> Yeah. How do you know that for your soul, your. purpose, your mission in life? Mhm. Perhaps who he was would not have been. healthy for you. See, I believe. everything is just as it needs to be. God doesn't kick kick us out and then. abandon us. So, there's a reason, a.

purpose that your daddy would be around. the corner and see you see him every. day. And maybe that purpose wouldn't. have been served with him being in your. life. My mother was an alcoholic Mhm. who died when I was three. And so, the good news is I didn't know. They forgot to tell me she was dead. So, they told me this woman wasn't my. mother. She wasn't That's a whole. 'nother story. But I often wonder, did I. benefit not growing up as a child of an. alcoholic? Mhm.

Can you hear me? Yeah. I don't know what. that would have looked like. So, how can. I tell myself that when, of course, we've all heard these stories and I. heard you guys talk about it many of. times when. those daddy-less daughters grew up and. then they seek for love and validation. in all the wrong places. And I guess. that's why it was so hard for me to tell. myself that because I did go through. that process of seeking for love and. validation and expectation from the love. that I did not get from my father. >> Do you know this man right here? Is it. obvious? Huh?

>> No, I said is it obvious? >> looking at me to eat you with his eyes. I'm a little. I'm a little nervous FOR A MOMENT. THAT much love, you ain't missing. nothing. But anyway, um. I would say. let the little girl grieve. Because, you know, daddies make us. princesses. Not you grown woman. That little one. Yeah. Let her grieve.

Ask her, the 3-year-old, the 5-year-old, the 7-year-old, "What did you want from daddy?". And then you give it to her. Yeah? Mhm. Let her grieve. Let her weep. Let her cry. Let her feel it. Let her. heartbreak because that's what's going. to teach you how to love him from a. distance and forgive him. And forgive. yourself for thinking you shouldn't miss. your daddy. You've been so busy trying. to be strong Yeah. until you're ignoring.

her pain. It's her pain. It's not really. yours cuz you big girl all grown up and. you got this hunk-a hunk-a burning love. over here. The hunk-a burning love. Thank you. [Laughter]. But let her grieve. And also let her. know. that she can still love her daddy even. though he chooses not to be in. relationship with her. How she going to. do that? Right. >> Just love love How? Just let her feel.

the love. Not comparison, not jealousy, but let her heart open in love and not. focus on the ache. Can I share. something? Can I share something? So, what I have all of these wonderful. daughter girls, I call them, who had. come to the United States from South. Africa. And most of them had grown up without. their fathers. Almost every single person had some form. of trauma because my school is for. underserved poor girls who come from.

traumat- traumatic backgrounds. And uh. in the beginning, it was such a mess going on all the time. that I called Iyanla y'all when we had. 20 girls crying and screaming and. yelling, crying about their daddies. And. I remember there was one girl, "Cuz I. never had my daddy to walk me to. school." And you were like, "But you're. 19. You can walk your own self to school. now. Now, you can walk your own self to. school now." And these girls are now.

coming here for college. And what you. shared with those girls were was that. you need to let, as as you were just. saying to Camry, let your young self. mourn the father or grieve the father, but your older self is already grown and. taking care of yourself. So, you need to. make the distinction between the two. Yes. >> That it needs to be acknowledged, but. what you're looking at and seeing him. doing with the his other kids all over. the place, you don't actually need that.

now. You have been able to take care of. yourself. Take care of yourself. >> Absolutely. So, but the good spiritual. hygiene is acknowledging this hurts. And I have the right to grieve it. And I have the right to live beyond it. Spiritual hygiene as a daily devotion to. taking care of your mind, your heart, and your spirit will clean up any. residue for you. And it'll bring that little one who's.

grieving into alignment. so that she's not running your life. >> Yeah, yeah. How do you fix the daddy. hole? I mean, it's not. one answer. I mean, there's so many. people who have a daddy hole. >> They do, but again, it's not the grown person. It's not you. today that's grieving. It's the. 5-year-old. It's the 7-year-old. Yeah. Even when she uses your eyes, she's not. counting how You're not counting how. many children daddy have. You as an. adult, you may say, "Boy, you need to. stop it." But she's like, Our kids are.

the same age. >> me. Yeah. I want my daddy, too." That's. her. That's not you. Yeah. [Music]. That's your younger self. >> Yeah. So, but what you want I know, baby. I know. But what is it that you. wanted daddy to take you to the park? Let's go to the park. I don't care if. it's 18 in of snow on the ground. Take. your butt out to the park and let her. you know, you can fill that hole by. giving yourself what it is that you. thought you would should have gotten. from the other person and then forgive.

them for not And also giving it to her. children now. >> Yes. She said their child Her Her. children are the same age as her. father's children. Wow. Well, I want to just from a spiritually. hygienic perspective, I want to be. careful with that. Because that was my goal. To give my children what I didn't have. And in doing so, I forgot about the. kids. I got into the giving that.

You understand what I'm saying? >> Yeah. >> into the giving You thought they should. have the things. They should have the. things. >> have a stable home. I would They had to. have a stable home. I didn't have I. didn't I had food uh scarcity. Even now. at my age with. everything that I I have two. refrigerators full to the brim. Right. now, you can come to my house you want. anything. Why? Because I live with food. scarcity. I didn't know always where my. next meal was coming from. And so, today. I can afford two refrigerators that's.

full to to the brim. Full right now. Because that keeps my little girl safe. Mhm. Keeps her safe. And it don't And I love to shop. I'm. going to I don't care Oh, they got wings. on sale. Let me go. That makes me happy. So, it makes me happy to make her happy. So, just be careful trying to give them. what you didn't have or what you wanted. Make sure that's what they need. That's.

not what my children needed. Mhm. That's not what Nisa needed. Nisa needed hugs and kisses. Her love language was were were words of. affirmation. Jameela's love language was quality. time, which she got because I took my. kids everywhere with me. Her, Damon, and. Lisa, I was dragging them along like. little ducklings. But that's not what she needed. So, in. my quest to work two jobs and to keep. the home and to have the food and to buy. the clothes, I missed giving her what.

she needed, which were words of. affirmation. >> Mhm. Did this help you? Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes, thank you. >> And you've been watching us a long time. So, yeah. I think the the show's about. the daddy-less daughter, I think that. came out before I was born and I just. caught it up on YouTube. So, yeah. That. was a long time ago. >> Yeah. What are some basic spiritual, I don't know, practices that we need to. create our own daily spiritual hygiene? >> Number one, breathe.

There's 50 people sitting right in here. that ain't breathing. Air is going in and out their nose, but. I'm talking. fill the lungs. Let your whole body participate in your. breath. Because we walk around and schedule and. tighten and performing and and. and as soon as something happens. We tighten up. >> Tighten up. >> Yeah. On the darn um devices. People aren't breathing. I'm like,

breathe. [Laughter]. Number one. >> Number one, breathe. Stillness. Be still and know. what's next, what to do, what not to do. Be still and know how you feel. How are you feeling? Not fine. That means effed up, insecure, neurotic, and excited about it. That's. what fine means. That's an acronym.

You know, people will just it's. habitual. Fine. No, you're not. Everybody is going through something. This is what we know. >> And in this contempt, our world is. contaminated right now. Yeah. Spiritually, physically, emotionally contaminated. People are scared to death. And so, spiritual hygiene is about coming to. terms with what is the truth of you, acknowledging that. >> Moment by moment by moment by moment. By. moment. Matthew. Yeah, this is so good because I, in the.

beginning of my life, my mother and father were not the best. human beings. They made decisions that. they shouldn't have made and that I got. the bad end of the stick as the boy. Uh. whereas my sister did not. So, I had to. be placed in the state until my aunt. uncle had to come and raise me until my. mom got clean and then I did got with. her. So, with all of that, it's almost like no one told me nothing.

They just said. >> Good. They they they they just said. Good. >> They just said your daddy is on vacation. or whatever and my my so my mom would be. now and then. They didn't tell me why. she had visitation right. Why does she. have to come in and come out? So, it's. not that they didn't tell you anything, they didn't tell you the truth. >> They did not tell me the truth. >> reason I said good that they didn't tell. you anything is because that meant you. had a lot less to unlearn.

>> Mhm. See, a lot of us were told stuff. that we then had to unlearn. Nobody told. me anything. either. So, I didn't have a lot to. unlearn. I had a lot to learn, but. unlearning, woo, that's rough. Sure. So, so we grew up in a family where we kind. of just dealt with things. We didn't. really express and I guess my question. is how cuz I'm a feeler. She calls me. sensitive sometimes. But how do you How do you How do I learn. to express in a family that does not.

They just deal. They just They don't. feel. They just sweep right under the rug. >> What they do is they numb. or dissociate. You can't Everybody's made the same way. God gave us all a brain and a nervous. system. They It's not that they don't. feel. It's that the dishonesty, the. emotional dishonesty, so they numb or. dissociate and move on in performance. But let me say this to you. Um thank you. for sharing that.

I want to support you and kind of re. um recreating the beginning. I heard you. say, "My parents made decisions that. they should not have had made and I got. the bad end Mhm. I understood. Yeah. That makes them wrong. And in spiritual hygiene, we don't want to make people wrong. We want to see their humanity and tell. the truth about it. They made the best decisions they could.

make based on who they were and the. information they had at the time and. those decisions had a negative impact on. you. That's the truth. Your mother and. father never got up one morning and. said, "Let me destroy my kids by going. out and get some drugs.". That would have been a bad decision. So, I just encourage you and invite you. to re-language that story not to make. yourself a victim. Mhm. Yes, ma'am.

It had a negative impact on you. That's. the truth. And then, everyone partici- the family. participated in it by not being telling. the truth about it. Imagine nobody told. you your mother was on drugs or. incarcerated. Nobody told me my mother. was dead. Duh. So, I grew up. thinking one person was my mother who. wasn't until I was 30. Okay? >> That's a lot to unlearn.

>> A a lot. Not only is that a lot to. unlearn and then you have to go through. the process of is everything a lie? That's it. Is everything a lie? >> Everything Everything is a lie. >> And so, for me, I can smell a lie. [Laughter]. You know, so truth for me, you know, that is like that is my minimum daily. requirement. I can't deal with a lie. So, what I would say, first of all,

start re-languaging your story and. again, let me go to the base. Everything. happens the way it needs to happen. It may not be the way we like it. So, the thing becomes what did I learn? What. did you gain? What did you grow? See, for me, I became a guardian of the. truth. That's my spiritual heart. Don't lie to. me. and I won't lie to you. I became a. guardian of the truth because of the. very devastating experience. What did you learn that you can then.

use? I learned how to bury my second. daughter by the mistakes I made burying. the first one. I know that sounds. bizarre, but this is like spiritual. hygiene. You know, this is what we do. Like you have to take chemo, which could have devastating effects to. cure cancer, but you want to be healthy, so you you. deal with the effects. There's something, lesson, mission, or. purpose in what you went through. And. don't compare yourself to your sister. You got what you needed, she got what.

she needed. Her soul. had a docket, your soul has a docket. Spiritual hygiene helps you. >> Docket meaning your own. Your sis- just because you all come from. the same family, this is for everybody. Everybody has their own soul contract. You come to the planet for a different. reason than she came to the planet even. though you came from the same people. And your job, your role is what she's. telling us in spiritual hygiene, is to. figure that out and to work at every day.

enhancing what is the real reason why. you are here. And I think I I think this is just. really incredible advice for everybody. to reorder the way you tell the story so. that you are not the victim in the. story. You're not the victim in the story. because so many people have made. themselves the victim of what they. didn't get. And they missed the power of. what they did get. You know, we signed up for this. We did. And and again, that's another beau- the.

beauty of grief. While grief takes you. into the pain, it also expands you. Because it once you learn the meaning. >> you just said that and that went over a. lot of people's heads. When you say you. signed up for this, I know I can hear a. lot of people saying, "But I didn't sign. up for it." Because what you think you. signed up for is the life you see. everybody else living. Uh-huh. Yeah. You. see. >> That's spiritual hygiene to compare your. life to anybody else's life. >> if you're living it, if you're. experiencing it, you signed up for it.

You signed up for it. The soul contract. signed up for it. You know, like when. you do certain things online and they. say read and accept, you don't read. that, do you? Yeah. You go down there and click that button. so you can get to the next page, right? You don't read it. >> Yeah. And then when they come back later. on and they're asking you to say, "Well, what is that?" You signed You accepted. it, right? >> Accepted it, yes. But does that make. sense to you all? Yes, that makes a lot. of sense. In the from the spiritual.

realm, we all signed up for for what we. You know, it's why Maya Maya used to say. to me all Actually, not only say, she. wrote a book called "Wouldn't Take. Nothing For My Journey Now.". I wouldn't take nothing for my journey. now. >> we forget, Miss Oprah. You're equipped to handle it. That's the piece. We think that we're not equipped to. handle being left or being diseased or. being this or that or you are equipped.

to handle it. You really are. Every car. is built with a tank of gas that'll get. it where it needs to go. So are you. I You know, I wouldn't never said, "Well, yeah, let my mother die and then. my uncle raped me. Let me get pregnant. as a teenager. That sounds like an. exciting thing to do. I would have never. picked that thing, but when I look back. now and my evolution from the little. girl Ronnie into Rhonda the woman into a. Yola the writer into I say, wow, yeah, I.

did have what I needed cuz I made it. through. Mhm. Yeah. I always use this metaphor because. I hike a lot now and when you're looking. up at the mountain and it looks like you. have so far to go, it feels like every. step is a burden. So, I always now I. turn around and I look back at how far. I've come. And when you look back at how. far you've come, it gives you so much. more energy and power to keep going.

Look at how far you've come. >> Yeah. And also that's why God built. roads that curve. So, you can only see from here to there. then you got to go around the curve. and then you see from there to the next. way then you got to go around another. curve cuz you have to sit here and look. there you I can't do that. I can't do. it. I can't do it. Yes, but if you can hit the curve. >> and keep on going. >> And that's why the switchbacks are good. >> like that? Isn't life like that?

>> Life is like that. You hit the curve and. you got to maneuver, but you get around. and then when you get around. got that one and then before you there's. another one and sometimes you go a long. stretch before you hit a curve or a. ditch or whatever, but we are equipped. we have so little faith in ourselves. >> Yeah, but I I I love this idea of. sitting in the space and in the peace of. how far you have come and all of us has. our own story. We all have our own story.

about how far that is. Where's Jenna? Jenna, what's your question for Yola? Yes. Hi, grateful to be part of the. conversation. Um. I've always had a very complicated. relationship with my mother. I was. parentified and made to feel emotionally. responsible for her as a child and. growing up. Later financially. Um and she was numbing her own pain and. her own trauma with shopping and. spending and betting and denial and then. mental illness.

And um for the last 12 years she's been. homeless. and I tried everything to prevent that. Um I spent money. Wait a minute. Bad spiritual hygiene to. have that feeling and ignore it. Let it. come up. Honor yourself. It won't kill you. Look how far you've come. Breathe. Breathe in it. Yeah. No, don't.

shake your head no. Yes. See how brilliant the body is. The body is cleansing itself. Tears. cleanse. It's bad spiritual hygiene to feel an. emotion and then to keep everybody. comfortable you keep on going like the. thing wasn't even there. Breathe let Go ahead. We'll just be. We'll just wait for you. It's okay. I. don't really cry about it anymore. Okay. But you're releasing. Breathe. But that. was not my plan. So, my plan I know that.

wasn't your plan Jenna, but here's the. thing. The fact that you're still crying. about it means it's still there and it. needs to come up to be cried about. >> And that's bad spiritual hygiene. That. right there that's a fibroid. That's a. raising your blood sugar. >> to cry on Oprah? Oh, everybody wants to cry on Oprah. That's what everybody does. Everybody. Okay. Breathe. So, to give you. >> Wait a minute. Breathe. Check in.

Better? Yeah. Okay. Okay. So, I tried to fix and prevent her. consequences and her current reality. Um. I gave over $50,000 and my own finances, career, sanity were destroyed. Like I. put them at risk. However, I knew that was not like what was in.

store for my highest self. So, I before I hit my own bottom, I got help. in Al-Anon which for some people don't. know it's friends and family of those. with addiction. My mom was numbing um. her pain. like an addict. And no matter what I did, I couldn't. prevent where she was going. And I finally saw that by getting help. and learning to have boundaries. You. know, it and and really it came down to.

her or me. It it really was her or me. I chose me. I got help. and I had to let her go. Now, I have a husband and two children. now and I choose them. and I choose them over her. And so I. don't engage with her. because I can't show up as the best. version of me for my children or my. husband and I deserve to do that.

Now, I refuse to pass this trauma to them. So, I do the work. But if I share about this part to this. other professional side of my life, it's. just it's too much for. >> what are you feeling? The the main. question is you're feeling guilt? >> Guilt and shame and it's not the shame. of her life. It's the shame of how could. she let her be homeless? >> Well, okay. You know, sometimes you got. to let your loved one hit rock bottom.

cuz God made the rock. God made the rock. So, if she down in rock bottom, that's. her business and God's business. That's. number one. Number two, helping somebody. out of obligation Mhm. is. not helping them at all. It's destroying you. And in your. >> Preach this morning. Preach this morning. And then in helping. her out of obligation.

sacrificing yourself. That is not Oh, not only poor spiritual. hygiene, it's abuse. Self-abuse. to put yourself out, but in this. contaminated world we live in that's. what we think we're supposed to do, but. each of us is given the gift of a life. Each of us. And each of us gets to. choose. But always beloved, vote for you first. And people who love you and care about. you like I hear that story and you say,

you know, she's homeless you had to let. her go and vote for you. I'm like, Good spiritual hygiene. Good spiritual. hygiene. Good spiritual hygiene. You. know, but I'm weird. Don't be. But what a courageous act. What a courageous act. Yeah, I can't be in conversation with. her. I can't have communication anymore. and I tried up until about 8 months ago. and finally I was like it's it's taking. pieces. >> If she ever comes to you and asks for.

anything and needs it and you can give. it to her, you can give it to her. through the door. You don't have to take. the chain off. Just reach it out Emma. No guilt, no shame and maybe you don't. have to talk to everybody about it. Talk. to your weird friends, people like me. Yeah, I mean Al-Anon saved her for me. >> how hard it is. I do every week. How hard it is to. watch her make this choice for herself.

That's what's hard. Not her being. homeless. No. The fact that she doesn't. have to be, but this is the choice that. she made. >> And even when you were saying I spent. $50,000 and I did this and I did. everything to try to get her, you know, what I'm thinking is, well, that's you. She's not doing any of that. That's all. on you. >> you to do it? She expects it. She holds. me responsible. Here's the question. Here's the question. Did she ask you to. do it? Yeah. And demanded it. Mhm. How. could I? She's still.

>> You didn't have a sacred no or or a a. holy yes. Very important in spiritual. hygiene. Your no has to be sacred. Meaning it's protecting. It's governing. It's guiding. When you give your no, it. has to be solid and firm from the inside. out. >> no. >> A sacred no and a holy yes. Meaning your. yes inspires, enlightens, evolves, helps. I love a sacred no, y'all.

A sacred no is a boundary. >> Matthew, you taking that in? >> know. I'm Can you give an example of the. yes? A sacred no? I I got I got the no down pat. Give me Yeah, give me an example of the. yes. A holy yes. A holy yes. Is when I. make a commitment about a promise to do. something because I want to. And it's. coming from the center of yourself. >> And it's coming from the center of you. >> betraying myself. >> You're not betraying yourself. >> not just performing.

You you're just showing up because you. think you have to because you feel. obligated or because you're afraid of. what other people will say. You know, we. get to a age where I forget what people. say so I really don't care. They say that if you want, I won't. remember next Go on, say it. So, it's. about releasing yourself to the freedom. of honoring yourself. You said I've. honored myself, but you have not made. yourself comfortable with the honor that. you're giving yourself because somebody,

I don't know who's in your head or or. were you on social media or whoever's. telling you that you need to be doing. something different. What part of you. tells you you should be doing something. different? Because again, everything is. energy. The laws of the universe are. flowing. This is the law of cause and. effect. >> Yeah. The cause always comes on the. inside and then it'll show up on the. outside. So, she is voicing. something you're holding. What part of.

you is saying, "I need to be doing. more?". >> That's the truth right there. >> that's what I was taught from day one. I. was filling a hole in her. She did. >> But look at her. Why are you taking her. lesson? [Laughter]. Yeah. Can you forgive yourself for not being. able to do more? To save her. Yeah, I mean, I. like this has been going on for a long. time. >> no? Yes. >> Can you forgive yourself for not being. able to do more based on her choice?

That's number one. Can you forgive yourself for no longer. being willing to participate in her. self-destruction? Can you forgive yourself for that? I. think so. What with it? Hear what I said. Forgive yourself. for no longer being willing. to participate. in her choice.

That's huge, isn't it, y'all? For And I. know y'all got some stuff going on that. this applies to cuz I could see the. nods. Forgive yourself for no longer. being willing. to participate in someone else's. self-destructive choice. And why I say. no, forgive yourself for no longer being. willing, because there's a part of you. that thinks you should. Yep. The evolved. part, the clean part, no is no longer. willing to participate in that. So,

you're forgiving the part of you that's. forgiving is the part that's saying to. that other part, "No, no, I'm not. willing to participate with you in that. conflagration.". >> Yeah, and the forgiveness is accepting. the fact that you now realize that. everything that you've done, that's all. that you can do. You have to accept. that. Isn't that true? >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. And that it didn't make a dang. difference. >> It did make a difference. It taught you. Ah. Preach this morning.

Preach, preach this morning. What's good. spiritual hygiene? Brings everything. back to you. This was your lesson, beloved. >> Oh, that's it. >> Oh my god, the little hairs just stood. up. You think this was about her? It was. about you. >> You. >> You can't somebody else can't learn. their lessons in your life. Hear me? Only you. >> Somebody else can't learn their lessons. in your life.

>> And if you don't enjoy your life, your. mother's misery will. So, you got to enjoy your life. Church. is over. Welcome to the church. Oh my god. To receive the offering. That's spiritual hygiene. Spiritual hygiene. Yeah, you're you're That was all about. you. How far will you go before you say no?

When will you set up a boundary? When. will you hold the boundary? >> get some ah-has off of that? Oh my god. My eyes are watering from the ah-ha. Wow, wow, wow. >> this is deep, wait till you get the. book. >> Oh my god, Iyanla, that was so good. >> What Isn't that true? Everybody You. think you're doing it for them. You're. not. >> It's your lesson. It's your lesson. It's. your lesson. >> But see, we're programmed and. conditioned to reach out. No, it's all about you.

So, get your no sacred. Yeah. >> Get your no ho your yes holy. Create. your boundaries. So, your work now again. is about forgiving yourself for. believing A, you did anything wrong, B, that you should have done more, and C, forgive yourself for feeling guilty. about no longer being willing to. participate in her choice. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Miss.

Iyanla. >> Iyanla Vanzant. Get some preaching up in here today. Iyanla's new book, Spiritual Hygiene: A. Practical Path for Clean Living, for. Inner Authority and Divine Freedom, is. available wherever you buy your books. And thank you to my guests, to Camry and. to Jenna and to Matthew and to you. audience for being here in New York City. today. Thank you so much. Thank you.

You can subscribe to the Oprah podcast. on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. I'll see you next week. Thanks, everybody.