Mega-Bestselling Author Kathryn Stockett on Finding Her Voice Again After ‘The Help’

The criticism from The Help did shape. how you started to approach [music] this. story and write the story. >> After many false starts writing this. story, I [music] I got fired. My. publisher fired me because it had taken. me so long. >> Because you were still operating out of. fear. >> Yeah, there's something I guess scrappy. inside of me that we you know, if you. kick me when I'm down, I'm going to come. out of that a little bit wiser.

and a little bit braver. >> You're still going to write the book. even though you don't have a contract. >> I don't give up easily. I got to say I. I'm really stubborn. So, when I got fired, [laughter]. it kind of put a fire under my ass. to [music] prove them wrong. >> This success of this book is going to be. the best revenge for the publisher that. fired you. I can't even believe it. >> It was It was fun to write. >> fun to write. >> It was. It was painful and it was fun. >> [music].

>> Hey everybody, thanks for stopping by. the Oprah podcast. A warm welcome to you. all. I know millions of you read The. Help. Kathryn Stockett's 2009 debut. novel, which became a global phenomenon. selling over 15 million copies. Not many. authors get to say that in their. lifetime, not in three lifetimes. Back. in 2011, the actress Octavia Spencer won. an Oscar for her role in the hit film. The Help based on the book. And now. Kathryn Stockett's long-awaited second.

novel, The Calamity Club, is finally. here. And I know so many of you are. going to And it's already, I can. tell you, runaway bestseller. I knew. that that was going to happen. And I'm. thrilled to be sitting on my front porch. with the author, Kathryn Stockett. I. know you prefer everyone call you Kitty, so I will do the same. Kitty, welcome. So glad to be with you. >> So glad to be here. >> just say I fell in love with this coming.

of age story. And this is what I. realized when I read this. I thought all. of my favorite books are coming of age. stories beginning with Toni Morrison's. The Bluest Eye, of course, Celie in The. Color Purple. >> Mhm. >> Maya Angelou's story is a coming of age. story. I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings. And of course, To Kill a Mockingbird and. Scout. There's something about a young. girl's voice coming of age that speaks. to me so deeply because I was a Southern. girl coming of age.

And obviously because you have done such. an incredible job with this book, that. also spoke to you. This is a story of a. group of bold, unbreakable women who. overcome hardships to reclaim their. lives. The love between them was just I. was crying one minute and laughing. really out loud to myself the next and. then cheering. I think it's both. heartbreaking and it's also hilarious at. the same time. So, you said writing a second novel in. the shadow of The Help was daunting. >> Yeah, living life and raising my my.

daughter as a divorced woman, but I. think it took me so long because I told. myself I would be cautious with this. next book. I would write something short and simple. and not draw the kinds of criticism that. some people had for The Help. And what I. ended up with was a a very vanilla you. know, banana flavored.

book version of this book that. >> Cuz you were trying to write not to. offend anybody. >> That's right. And and I was trying to to. write something that that had no heart. in it. And uh. what I finally had to admit myself after. many years of failure was that you. cannot write about Mississippi and. certainly not in the 1930s. without talking about race, without. talking about discrimination and the. absurdities of.

of some of the rules that that were in. existence especially in a place like. Mississippi. >> Yes, where I was born. >> Yes. >> Yes, and was very happy to get out of at. the time that I did. >> I understand. >> Yes, and you understand. Yes, I always. say I was born at the right time. I was. born in I'm going to talk start talking. like Mississippi now. Uh. I was born uh 1954. when Brown versus Board of Education. and the luckiest thing that ever. happened to me was that I left.

Mississippi before I ever spent a day in. a segregated school. Because had I grown up in a segregated. school with teachers who were teaching. me that, you know, I was less than, I. would not have had the confidence or the. agency or authority that I managed to. have as as a as a young girl moving to. Milwaukee and never having to to to. endure any of that. I think truly that. made all the difference for me. And so, what did you learn from the criticism of.

The Help and what did you understand as. the crux of that criticism? >> I'm of of two minds uh about The Help. I. mean, on the one hand, I I get it. I understand the the. criticism. I understand that it it put. some people off that a white woman was. writing a story that they perceived as a. black woman's story. >> Story to tell. >> To tell, but the truth is. it it was the story that uh.

that I needed to write to answer a lot. of the questions that I had about my. childhood and about where I came from. and about the things that I was taught. And I understand the criticism, but it. was a story that just came out of me and. and I don't know how to quiet the voices. in my head. We write what we write. because we have to. >> Did the criticism cause you to approach. this book differently or make different.

decisions? You said in the beginning you. were writing cautiously and that it. turned out to be something flattened and. it didn't feel like it was coming from a. real place. So, were you conscious of. the criticism from The Help as you were. writing Calamity? >> Oh, absolutely. I mean, when I wrote The. Help, it was. just me kind of pouring my heart out. onto the page with no expectations of me. and. >> Right. >> think anybody was going to read it and I.

had 60 rejections from agents to back. that up. And when I sat down to write the second. one, instead of just me sitting in a. room with the page alone, this time it. was me in a room with all those readers. and all those critics in that room Yeah. Staring me down. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. With expectations. >> With expectations. >> What are you going to do now? >> Right. >> Yes. You've said, "I'll probably get in. some trouble for this one. A fate I'm. drawn to." Above all, the story embraces.

a woman's right to determine her own. fate, which feels increasingly relevant. these days. Why do you think you're. drawn to getting in trouble? >> Oh, that's a great question. Who knows? I was just born this way. I [laughter] uh. I feel like I've been in trouble most of. my life for for something. >> Yeah. >> And I think it also has to do with the. fact that. uh. I you know, I I have a sense of humor. and I'm going to always search for the.

humor in some of the darkest moments and. >> [clears throat]. >> I don't see how people. get through life um without looking for. the humor, and it's uh you know, sometimes it works for me, sometimes it. kind of I'm told I'm very hard to be. married to. >> [laughter]. >> Is that what your ex-husband said? >> Uh-huh. >> Yeah. So, so tell me this, you were. saying. the criticism from The Help did shape.

how you started to approach this story. and write the story. Were you finally. able to let that go, to shake that off, and just delve into the lives of these. women you've now written about in. Calamity? >> Um. after many s- false starts. um writing this story, um. I I got fired. My publisher fired me. because it had taken me so long because.

I guess the material wasn't something. they wanted, and that was the old. version. That was the vanilla version. >> Yeah. >> And I really I felt like I had let down. myself, I felt like I'd let down my. family. >> Because you were still operating out of. fear. >> Yeah. >> And criticism. >> got fired, when I lost my contract, um I. really felt like I had. failed everybody, and there's something, I guess, crappy inside of me that w- you. know, if you kick me when I'm down I'm.

going to come out of that a little bit. wiser. and a little bit braver. And once. that happened I was able to sit down and. write the whole book over from from a. very fresh. perspective. >> So, I want to talk about the story. without giving too much away. I have to. say, I've now given this book to. so many of my friends who say, "I wish. it wouldn't end. I could not believe how. many times I laughed. I could not. believe these characters." Would you set.

up the characters and plot? Because as I. was saying earlier, I am drawn to. stories with coming-of-age southern. girls and Meg is a character like we've. never seen before. >> Well, thank you. Um, I really like. writing in the voice of a child because. a child can see through the the bull. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Can I say that? >> Yes, you can. >> And they're going to speak truths that. sometimes an adult loses sight of. So,

because of of the plot of this story, sort of the punchline so to speak that. you know what it is. >> Yes. >> Um, I also needed a an adult narrator. So, was able to mix the two narrators, the 11-year-old girl and, you know, the. 24-year-old kind of old maid. >> Yeah. >> unmarried woman from also from. Mississippi. And and I felt like that. way I could give two perspectives. of one story. >> And so, I love this passage about young.

Meg's life in the orphanage. On page. 127, you write, "Sometimes I feel old.". Oh, this is what Meg Meg is saying. Uh, at 11 years old. "Sometimes I feel. old, old in my skin and my bones. I. remember when I turned nine at my mama's. house. I could still feel a little eight. left in me. But, when I turned 10 in. this place, there was not any nine left. to spare. Now, I'm afraid I might. already have used up the rest of my 11. and most of my 12, too." So, I just love. that line. How do you come up with I. could still feel a little eight left in.

me? >> I don't know. Who knows where where, you. know, the muse. speaks to you, how how the words come. I. don't know. I wish I did. >> Meg suffers abuse at the orphanage and. she describes it this way. It's It's. like she's trying to whip the hope out. of me. All the while she's whispering, "Dirty, filthy girl." After 15 licks, Miss Garnet sits down in the chair. panting. She only quits cuz her arm gets. tired. Were these scenes difficult for.

you to write? >> Not difficult, but. that line, uh, uh. I wanted the reader to see first hand. that sometimes you can't whip the hope. out of somebody. Genuine hope. is powerful. >> Yeah. On page 136 you write this about. how Meg feels, "All this noise inside us. and we can't make a sound." I felt like. so many young girls, boys, people feel. this way. Those 11 little words speak.

volumes for so many people in similar. situations. So, you were saying that for. her, but saying it also for so many. people. >> So many people that have been silenced, that don't have the chance to speak up. I guess it's why I I write. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> a chance to to say my piece. >> So, you knew you had to So, if you had. were having Meg, you know you you needed. an adult to be a counterpart for what. comes later on in the story. That all. that crazy calamity stuff that happens. But, where did she actually come from?

When did you first hear her voice? >> Oh, probably from my own daughter. Just. hearing that childhood voice and saying. things to me that, you know, you wonder, "Where did you come from?". >> did that come from? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And so, how did she start to form? And. did she start to speak to you? And did. you write every day? >> I did. I wrote almost every day. Every. day that I could. >> Yeah. >> Um. >> So, now you've been fired, you've lost. your contract. >> Yeah. >> But, you're still going to write the.

book even though you don't have a. contract. >> I don't give up easily. I got to say, I. I'm really stubborn. >> Uh-huh. >> Um so, when when I. when I got fired, it kind of put a fire. under my ass to prove them wrong or. something. It took me a minute to get. out of, you know, the. bottom. >> The success. that fired you. I can't even believe it. >> Oh, well. >> Yeah. >> It It fun to write. >> was. >> to write. >> It was. It was painful and it was fun. >> Yeah. All right. We gave a few lucky.

readers the copy of The Calamity Club. and Jamila is joining us now from North. Carolina. Jamila, hi. >> Hello. So wonderful to meet you, Oprah. and Katherine. >> Oh, Jamila, I'm so excited to hear your. take on this story. >> I love this story. I'm a Southern girl, too. I'm from Mobile, Alabama and. Katherine, Mobile got a tiny shout out. in the book. >> Yeah. >> Um and just really reflecting on this. time and places I've been and visited.

because I grew up on the Gulf Coast. So, all those areas, Biloxi, Jackson, New. Orleans, Oxford, very familiar to me and. it was a wonderful kind of flashback. into time for me. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> You know, Southern I mean, listen, I. gave this to three of my Southern. friends who were just over the moon. They couldn't even I think there's. Everybody's going to love the book, but. I will tell you that if you are a. Southern woman, I think it resonates. more deeply. I don't I'm not sure why. Jamila, can you tell us why?

>> I think it's because you know these. stories. So, my grandmother, she grew up. cleaning white people's houses and so. some of these stories were very aligned. and Ophelia in the book kind of reminded. me a little bit of my grandmother. So, I. think we have some some ways we relate. to it very real. >> Yeah, me too. My grandmother grew up. cleaning white people's houses in. Mississippi. So, I understand very much. Do you have. a question for Kitty? >> I do. So, tears welled up in my eyes at.

the end. I was so happy and excited for. Charlie and Meg, but I must tell you I. honestly was like, "What What is. happening next with the rest of them? What happened with Birdie and Jack? And. do they have a future together? What. about Rory and his second stint in New. Orleans? What about Garnet? Does she get. retribution for what she did? What about. uh Rory? Like again, like is he What. does he do What happens when he comes. out? Um there's so many characters, right? >> Yeah. And were you worried I was so. worried that when Jack found out what.

Birdie was doing, he would then sort of. think that she was some kind of soiled. woman or something, and wouldn't want to. be around her if he found out that that. that that's what she was doing. >> worried about that for especially after. the gift he had given her, which we all. gave away, right? I I was like, this is. going to be a terrible revelation for. him, but what a way he handled it. >> Yeah. What. a way. What a way. What a way. And were you worried, too? Were you worried, too, Zillah that the. sheriff was going to come every night?

>> Yes. Yes. I just could not imagine how. again, when they were going into town. too for anything, to mail a letter, to. get food, I was worried. Um like you, I. was just hoping, can we make it to the. next day? >> And I couldn't I I couldn't believe they. used their bedroom. I couldn't believe. they used they used the. >> believe it, either. And the whole we. just need to make it a few more days. And then when it got to that last day, Oprah, I I breathed a sigh of relief, like we made it. We made it. We can get. it. >> No, but what about when the man's coming. down the stairs, the man's coming down.

the stairs, and she realizes what's. going on in the house? What about that? >> Tart? Oh my gosh, I was worried about. her. >> about that? >> [laughter]. >> Oh, just really, it was so much going. on. >> Mrs. Tart Mrs. Tart's going to have a. heart attack when she realizes what's. going on in this house. >> Exactly, but you see so much maturation. in all the women given the times. >> Yes. >> And I think there was a way she came to. appreciate what needed to be done. Desperate times call for desperate. measures. >> Absolutely. So, I I know you have a. question, but tell me, did you have a.

favorite character? >> I think I look like you, everyone loves. Meg, but I really did like Birdie. I. identified with, you know, kind of her. having to be a heroine in so many ways. You know, she never made it back home. from from what we saw, right? Which is. why I'd love to to know what happens. next. And so you you kind of gave me the. in to ask are we thinking about a. sequel? Um I really want to know what. happens to some of these other. characters, Catherine, because while we. know Charlie and Meg are probably. hopefully doing well together, what.

about Esmeralda? What about Garnet? What. about Rory? What about Bertie and Jack? >> [laughter]. >> Let me just say, y'all are the best. readers. Y'all are a writer's dream. >> Uh. >> Um I don't know if there's going to be a. sequel. I kind of doubt it. I I uh I. don't want to put too hard of a finish. on, you know, a story. And I I I like to. leave, you know, leave leave the reader. wondering a little bit.

>> you know, you can do what Elizabeth. Strout has done with all with, you know, all of. >> such a great writer. >> Yeah, all of all the Kitteridge and. everybody in that town ended up having, in some form or another, their own story. and were in other books. I mean, there. is no reason, Kitty, that you cannot. continue this story with these. characters moving on. I mean, literally, Bertie, what happens to Bertie and Jack. and Bertie and Jack's family? Or all the. other. any of the other women? Don't you agree? Don't you agree, Jamila?

>> agree. I mean, even some of the offshoot. parts, like Lucille, what happens to. her? What happens to the Hilderbrands? Like you have so many places you can. take this, Catherine. So, my vote is for. a sequel, but absolutely up to you. >> Thank you. >> Absolutely up to you. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for your enthusiasm. Okay, don't. you want to pass it on to everybody? Don't you want to say everybody. >> Absolutely. I think everyone should read. this. And while it seems daunting, right, with the number of pages, once. you get going, it just moves, Catherine.

It's you can't put it down. Or then you, like you said, Oprah, you want to put it. down cuz you're almost scared what's. going to happen next. >> yes. >> It's such a delight. So, I hope everyone. picks it up and and gives it a read. >> It actually, I think, left me with less. judgement of women's choices to do what. they need to do until they can do what. they actually want to do. Did you feel. that too, Jamila? >> I did. That you know, there's a. character that has to leave her job. because of men, right? And men taking. opportunities. And juxtaposing that with.

what the ladies in the C Club had to do, right? I think it absolutely gives you. that confidence in knowing listen, everyone should read the story and take. away from do what you have to do. And. women have been doing it for years and. it's a reminder of how important it is. to to walk with conviction as women to. keep moving forward. >> Keep moving forward. Jamila, thank you. Thank you. All right, spread the book. story around, right? The Calamity Club. And so, are you one of those writers. that has a schedule? >> If I don't write almost every day, I.

lose my momentum. I'm a big believer that the voices are. always there. I I have to clear my. schedule. I have to clear my palate just. to be able to hear them and you know, it's kind of like. just because you turn off the radio. doesn't mean the music stopped playing. Um, so yeah, if I lose my thread and and. I lose my frequency. >> Because you got so much criticism, well. not so much but you got criticism after.

The Help was such a great success. So. you get criticism for writing about. black women because you are a white. woman. Did you decide, okay, well I'm. only going to write about white women? >> I really tried. >> Yeah. >> I really tried. >> can't write about white women in the. South without putting some black women. in there. >> This is true and especially in. Mississippi. >> In Mississippi? >> 50/50. >> And so how did were you worried about. that bringing the black characters in? >> I'm still worried. >> Yeah. >> I'm still worried. It's I'm a. Southerner. I was born to worry. >> Yeah. >> [laughter].

>> And what are you worried about? >> Just the same things that happened with. The Help, you know? >> Mhm. >> I am a white woman and it's it's you. know. it's a story about about white people. and black people and the relationships. that they have. The help was. And a. little bit in this one, too. >> When that criticism came, were you hurt. by it? Were you You say you were shocked. by it. >> I was surprised. >> Surprised by it, yeah. >> Yeah. >> Did you feel that that criticism was.

valid? >> It was a you know told from the. perspective of only the through the. white eyes. >> Mhm. >> And the white gaze. >> gaze, exactly. And I'm a white woman. The screenplay was written by a white. man, a good friend of mine. >> Mhm. >> But at the same time. uh for a lot of people in America, it. was a first step. It it was um it was the first. introduction to. uh the complexities of the relationships.

between blacks and whites in the South. >> And do you feel differently now about. [clears throat] who is allowed to tell. what story? >> I don't try to over-analyze it very. much. All I can say is that as a writer, I. don't really have control over what I. write. I write with my heart. The voices come. out of me. >> Now some people say you obviously have. control over what you write, but you're.

saying you don't have control in terms. of what your heart wants to speak to. That's what I hear you saying. >> That's yes. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> That's true. And. and I've wondered sometimes if if. maybe the issue wasn't that I wrote The. Help. It was that it became such a success. Maybe that was the problem. Um. it's hard. to think about telling an artist, "No, no. That's not allowed. You can't create. that.".

>> Yes. >> That's crossing a line. >> Yes. Yes. >> But again, >> Cuz we're I get it. >> if if if artists aren't allowed to. express what's inside them? >> And some say that the role of art should. make you a little uncomfortable. I see. both sides. >> Okay. Let's talk about the Calamity. Club. I think readers will feel. transported. uh back to the South in the 1930s from. the slang to the language to the. clothing. How did you craft that?

>> I had to do a lot of research. I had to. do interviews. I looked at a lot of. [snorts] Eudora Welty's photographs and. read her stories. Had to really immerse. myself in the time. And I think I got. most of it right. >> Mhm. >> Um I really wanted the reader to feel. like the air of the time and and feel. just feel like. know what it felt like to be a woman in. 1930 in Mississippi. >> Where did all of these women come from?

I mean, it's a cast of characters in. this story. How did the story come to. you? Kitty? >> All I can say is that my characters kind. of tell me what they're going to do. I. go into writing a story knowing maybe. about 10% about what's going to happen. >> did you know of Calamity Club? First of. all, where'd that name come from? >> Well, Mark Twain uses it and I thought. it was just a great word of the time. >> Calamity. >> Calamity. It's a calamity. And you know, the C Club.

has a little special meaning to me as. well and you know, if you read the book, you'll. stumble across that. But I I don't know. where we get these ideas. All these. voices in my head. >> Do they come one at a time? Do they come. as a group? >> I don't know. They just show up and they. tell me what they're going to do. And. sometimes they say that they're going to. do this and I say, "No, you're not. I I. I don't want to write that." And then. what do they do? They go and do it. anyway. >> Okay. So, Meg came to you because of. your daughter. >> Yes.

>> Yeah, okay. Birdie came from where? >> I think Birdie came from me. >> Okay. >> Just someone who. uh speaks her mind and often gets in. trouble for it. >> Okay. Charlie, Meg's mother, is imprisoned, declared unfit, and uh. you know, sterilized against her will. In your research, you discovered in the. '30s so many women were often diagnosed. as the word time the word that you used. in the book, feeble-minded or. promiscuous. And what else did you learn.

about women in that period? >> much. >> Tough time to be a woman. >> I don't think there's been enough. written about this subject. But in the. 1920s and the 1930s, the eugenics. movement was just starting to heat up. And the idea was that by sterilizing. certain people, they could cleanse the. population of what they called. undesirables. And these were These were. people that, you know, might have. epilepsy. They might have autism. People.

that they. perceived as having a lower. intelligence. They thought by. sterilizing them, they could stop the. procreation of of these types of people. And the the one that really stood out to. me was that in Mississippi, a woman. could be sterilized. for being promiscuous. And And that one stopped me in in my. tracks. I mean, I I guess, you know, the. idea was that if, you know, if you're. promiscuous, well, then you must be.

stupid. And if you're stupid, then. uh you know, since because it's. hereditary, um you're going to have all. these children that then the state of. Mississippi and so many states adopted. the the these laws, would have to then. take care of. >> As you're saying that, I'm thinking, glad I got out of Mississippi [laughter]. when I did. >> Faye is zooming in from Ohio and I hear. this idea of Faye, did you laugh how. many times did you laugh out loud? Could. you even count?

>> Too many to count. >> I That's what I say about this book. It. will have you howling with yourself, really. And I hear this idea of chosen. family resonated for you. >> Absolutely. There's a line in the book. that completely stopped me when I read. it. It perfectly embodies the theme of. found family and it reads, "This. slap-together band of misfits made me. feel for the first time that I truly. belonged. How the hell, I wondered, did. I ever get so lucky?". Catherine, what inspired you to explore.

the theme of found family in this story. and what do you want readers to feel. when they close this book? >> For somebody like a. like Birdy in the book, >> [clears throat]. >> that's what she's looking for, a a group. of people. um where she feels like she fits in. And so many of us are looking for that. And I think that's a reasonable thing to. ask for in life. And she finds it with. um. yeah, a group of misfits and it it.

surprises her. As for what I want the. reader to take away, I want the reader. to feel motivated to protect women's. rights. We can't afford to lose any more ground. than we already have. >> Well, I love that. Well, I you know what. I loved in the very beginning of the. story. when the orphan when when we go to the. orphanage for the first time. Well, there's so many things I appreciated. about this book. Well, first of all, it's set in the South and I'm from the.

South and Mae is Southern and she's 11. and she's sparky and bright and all. those things and she's at the orphanage. And when you walk into the orphanage, one of the pivotal locations in the. story, the sign out front reads, "Welcome to the Lafayette County Orphan. Asylum for girls founded 1927. We do not accept. coloreds, Indians, Jews, Mexicans, oriental types, twins, anyone who has or. has had leprosy, consumption, missing.

limbs, or hare lip. No boys, no sick. children, or anyone of a. nature. No girls over the age of 12, no. women in the family way. We do not. deliver babies here. May the Lord bless. you all. That sets quite the tone. Weren't you struck by that, Fay? >> Absolutely. I remember bookmarking that. part of it and going back to that. >> That tells you everything you want to. know about the prejudices of the time. Of the prejudices of the time. So, I.

want to know, did you find signs like. this for real in your research? >> Well, no, but I did know that these, you. know, absurdities existed and. I, uh, you know, I made a choice. I. said, I can I can try to stretch that. point I'll I'll for 600 pages or on the. very first page I can stick it in a sign. on the wall. >> To let you know what you're dealing.

with. >> know what they're in for. >> Yeah. And I think that set the tone. We. know what we're in for. We're going to. walk into a world of prejudices here. And I think Meg handled them all so so. so beautifully. Thank you, Fay. How many people are you. passing the book on to? I mean, I. couldn't wait to pass the book on to as. many people as I could. >> So many. I'll be recommending this to. everyone. It will be my top book of the. year. >> Yeah, I think so. >> calling it now. >> I think so. Thank you so much. Thanks, Fay. >> Thank you. >> Heather also read The Calamity Club. Heather, hi there.

>> Hi, how are you? >> Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Did you read it all in. one sitting or did you keep coming back. to it laughing out loud? >> Almost. I was actually on a flight to. San Francisco, so I read it the entire. flight there, the entire flight back, and just consumed it as quickly as. possible. >> Yeah, did you laugh out loud? >> It's definitely a book where you're. laughing, you're crying, you're feeling. such mixed emotions, you're feeling. hopeful. It's beautiful. >> Beautiful. >> And I you know, there was definitely a. moment for me when I read the line um.

"What if we fail?". And the quick response was "What if we. succeed?" And I think that for me really. resonated because it's really easy to. focus on all the things that can go. wrong rather than trusting in what will. go right. And in my own life, I've had a. lot of detours that have changed the. course of the. path that I thought my life would take. And reading this book definitely felt. like validation of And I think that's. really something that women especially.

we need to focus on to trust that. journey and through that really learning. how. confident and brave and strong we really. are if we just trust ourselves rather. than. you know, what we may see in front of. us. >> Well, they're all in that They're all in. that house trusting each other. That was. some crazy That was a calamitous time in. that house. Do you have a question for. Kitty? >> I do. I do. Um Katherine, my question. for you is um many of these um. characters faced really big decisions.

and crossroads. What would your um advice be for young. women be and to encourage them to trust. in themselves rather than waiting for. the universe to give them this perfect. sign that everything's going to be okay. >> You know, I think a lot of uh women. are afraid to make a mistake. And it's a. good question because I think that. that's. one of the reasons why it it took me 17. years to write a second book. We, you.

know, we tend to overcompensate. We um we overthink it. When the truth is uh. sometimes just making a decision is just. as good as making the, you know, perfectly exact right decision. Part of. this is because. uh. you know, women haven't had. the rights that we do and the rights. that we deserve for that long. And so we're we're afraid to make. mistakes. We might lose it. And I just.

want to tell women. that it's okay to make a mistake. That's. how we learn. >> That's how we learn, Heather. Thank you. so much. Thank you. >> Thank you, Heather. >> Thank you for reading all of those. pages. Aren't you glad you did though? Aren't. you glad you did? I just love this book. >> So glad. >> I I I love this moment in the book where. I won't tell you what has happened, but. I just love the sentence where Meg says, "Nobody needs to remind me to count my. blessings. I could count 100 for what. I've done in just the last 2 hours.".

And oh, it is just all so spectacular. >> Uh-huh. >> Yeah, what does this say about Meg? >> Uh that she's still full of wonder and. that she has hope. >> Mhm. >> She she doesn't lose hope through the. whole book and hope is so powerful. >> Yeah. Was the idea to bring all of these. women together who were sort of. uh outcasts and the outsiders and to. show that together they could build. something that was really powerful even. though that something would not be what.

most people would consider. you know, a great business. [laughter]. >> But it was a profitable one. >> Yes, it was a profitable one. Yes. >> Yes, we're all we're all stronger when. we come together. >> I couldn't believe they were going to do. it. I got I started to get so nervous. You know, I hate for thing for I I I I. didn't want anything to go wrong with. them and I started I started to get. nervous. I actually put the book down. I. thought, "Are they Is she actually going. to go through with it?" When they left. the house and they went to look for her. her son and then.

there is Birdie left in that house. "She's not going to do it. She's not. going to do it. She's not going to do. it. And then she did. >> it. >> Yeah. And every night I was waiting on. the sheriff to come. Every night I thought the sheriff was. coming. >> such a good reader. >> I thought the sheriff was coming every. night. And I thought at first I thought. the guy standing outside he had to be. the sheriff, but if he was the sheriff. he wouldn't have been able to just stand. outside and watch. He would have brought. everybody in and they would have. arrested him. So I couldn't figure out. who that guy was until the end. I still. didn't know that that's who it was. >> Thank you. >> I did not. Yeah. But every night I was.

so worried for them every night. We. won't give away the plot about. the way. but about halfway through the book there. is a jaw-dropping secret reveal. So when. you started writing did you know what. the key moments would be? Are they plot. did you plot them out? >> No. >> No, you just let you just let the. characters. >> for the ride. >> You were along for the ride. This makes. me crazy when writers say this. >> Oh, no. I really believe the characters. are are driving the boat. They're. driving the story. They're telling me.

what they want. >> Who do you love the most? Who are the. characters you love the most? >> Oh, I like Flossie. I really enjoyed. writing her because I felt like she was. so vulnerable. >> Yeah, she was. >> And a little pathetic. and and so honest. At least that's what. how I tried to write her and I hope. that's the way that she came across. >> She did. Yeah. So that was your favorite? Well, Meg was definitely my favorite of. course. And so you quote Emily Dickinson.

and her famous poem where Meg says hope. is a thing with feathers that purchases. purchases in the soul and sings the tune. without the words and never stops at. all. What do you want readers to. actually or is or did you want readers. to know anything about hope when you. were writing this book? >> Oh, it is so powerful. I I wanted to. give Meg kind of a theme song. >> Uh-huh. >> that she could hear in her head on the. darkest nights. >> Mhm. in the orphanage. And so, I put.

that that poem in in her armor. to bring out when she needed it. >> In the author's note, you say that as a. writer and as a human being, I believe. it is my duty to imagine I think you say. this in the beginning of the book. You. say, um as a writer and as a human being, I. believe it's my duty to imagine what it. feels like to stand in another person's. shoes to stay sane. I put those. imaginings on paper. The Calamity Club.

is the result. How did writing these. women's stories keep you sane? >> [laughter]. >> Well, it actually drove you a little. insane, I'm sure. >> Well, I uh as as for the the end note, um. I have to say. I. I think I think they should teach it in. school that as as a human being, it is. so important to imagine what it feels. like to have someone else's problems.

>> Mhm. >> But, you know, I think it's also vital. to imagine what it feels like to have. someone else's successes. It's how It It's what gives us hope. >> Mhm. >> There's just some voices inside of me. that got to get out. And And when I. write when I write books, I they come. out. >> like Did you feel like I've been. redeemed and I've been released? That. that. uh that song. Uh did you feel that that.

this was a releasing when you when you. completed these 800 pages? >> I was very relieved when I finished the. book. Yes, after so many years. >> Well, we aren't going to give it away. what happens to these characters at the. end, but I will say I was in a puddle, really. Listen, did you always know you. wanted to resolve the story this way? >> A little bit. I wanted to write a. slightly different ending. Maybe one. that wasn't quite. As it turns out, um, but hey, I'm okay.

with the ending. I've made peace with. it. >> You made peace with it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, thank you. Thank you. Kitty. Stockett, Kathryn Stockett. She likes to. be called Kitty. Thank you for this. beautiful, breathtaking It's just really. >> Thank you. It is an honor to be here. Thank you. >> Calamity Club is available now wherever. books are sold. So yes, it's a lot of. pages, Gail. It's a lot of pages, but. you're going to love every one. So. Jamila, thank you. Faye, Heather, thank.

you. Thanks for reading with us and for. your thoughtful questions. We'll see you. next week. Go well, everybody. I hope you all read The Calamity Club. [music] I'm telling you it is one of the. great reads and particularly for summer. [music] I think you're you're you're. going to just fall in love with the. characters like I did. So good for the. summer to share with your friends and. you can buy it instantly now, right now. I just love the way this happens. If. [music] you scan the QR code on your. screen, you can get the book. Happy.

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