Inner Excellence: Train Your Mind for the Best Possible Life with Oprah and Jim Murphy

This episode of the Oprah podcast is. presented by our partner Geico. In a. short span of just like 20 days, I heard. this book, Inner Excellence, sold. 200,000 [music] copies and shot to. number one on the New York Times. bestseller list. >> I feel like the reason Inner Excellence. is helpful for anybody is that I realize. that we all have this this deep need for. unconditional love and a fear of not. getting that love. >> That's right. We all want to have a life.

where we're learning and growing and. feeling fully alive. >> The year that I made 1.5 million. I had. to get an emergency hysterctomy [music]. and my commission check hit my bank. account the day I was lying in my. hospital bed. And that [music] was such. a super crazy surreal moment when I just. realized this this isn't it. One of the. reasons why inner [music] excellence has. been such a powerful tool for so many.

people is well it's the first time. they've tapped into there is more. Hi there. Welcome to the Oprah podcast. I certainly appreciate you joining me. here and I wanted to ask you all a. question. If you would just um think for. a moment and try to imagine this for. yourself, a life where you feel. completely free to make decisions. that continue to enhance your every.

experience. You feel free from. self-doubt. You are not held back by. fear. A life where you feel effortlessly. connected to your true self, living as. the person you believe yourself to be. created to be. Imagine that. Well, my. guest Jim Murphy is the author of the. book that went viral last fall. It's. called Inner Excellence. And he believes.

that that life is possible for you, for. me, for everybody. So, let me explain. first who Jim Murphy is in case you. haven't heard of Jim. Hi, Jim. >> Hi, bro. >> When an eye condition ended Jim Murphy's. lifelong dream of playing professional. baseball, [music] he moved to the desert. to write and research inner excellence. He spent 5 years studying the science of. peak performance, interviewing [music]. sports psychologists and elite coaches. And when the book came out in 2009, it. barely sold. Jim reworked his book and.

self-published a new [music] edition in. 2020. That version didn't sell either. One fateful moment changed everything. During an NFL playoff game with nearly. 40 [music] million viewers watching. live, Philadelphia Eagles wide receiver. AJ Brown was seen reading Jim's [music]. book on the sidelines. In an instant, inner excellence took off, going from, listen to this, ranking [music] 523,497. on Amazon all the way to number one. And.

[music] then Heisman Trophy winner NFL. and NFL number one draft pick Fernando. Mendoza read the book right and in a. short span of just like 20 days I heard. this book Inner Excellence sold 200,000. copies and shot to number one on the New. York Times bestseller list. So how did you process that velocity? Yeah, Oprah. It was it was very intense. and that week was actually um a very. intense week because my mother was.

dying. >> Yeah. January 12th was was the wild card. game and then she died January 16th, so. 4 days later. Um it was an answer to. prayer because she was suffering. But so. that week very somber and kind of. lonely. Business was slow. I hadn't paid. off my credit cards for the first time. in years. I just didn't have the cash. flow to pay off the credit cards. >> And and then Sunday night get all these. texts and I thought my mom had died. >> Mhm. And so, um, they said, you know, you got to turn on the game. And that. week, everything was going crazy with.

all the interviews and everything. And. that's 3:00 a.m. And my, uh, my heart. was racing and in the middle of the. night, and I was like, what is. happening? And then I just felt like it. was just just so much coming at me. And. then in the morning, it was just this. huge relief cuz I felt God saying, Jim, you're not the one that did this. You're. not the one doing it. You can relax. Your purpose stays the same. Just. continue to do what you're doing. And. that was such a huge relief because I. was like, I don't know how to do this. What am I supposed to do? >> So, was that was that a voice or a.

feeling or what? >> You know, I think the number one thing. that and you know, you're a very. spiritual person and I think it's to. realize that there's a power greater. than you. No matter what you believe. that that. >> there's something causing the sun to. rise every morning. >> Yes. And connecting with that power is. the most important thing that you could. ever do. And so for me to connect with. God and to to feel like um we have a. relationship where I can uh hear his. voice is so important to me. And so um.

but it's not always a voice. It's it's. like um. >> in felt like God saying like in my mind. it was like God saying Jim you don't. have to worry about all that. >> So I want to talk about your path to. inner excellence. So tell us about the. moment you decided to give away all of. your possessions and move to the desert. Yeah, I was um I'd always since I was. little, I always dreamed that I was. going to be a superstar. And what I. thought that meant was to be the guy. that um every guy wanted to be and every. girl wanted to be with and hitting home.

runs and this superstar. So when my. career ended, it was such a devastating. thing and I was so lost. And so I went. back to being a personal trainer like I. was in grad school. And but I always had. this this sense that I wanted to make a. bigger difference than um just the. physical. And then I get a call from a. teammate in pro baseball in in Tucson, Arizona, Ricky Scrugs. He's building a. um baseball academy. He said, "Can you. come down for the first weekend to. launch it?" And it was just the perfect. timing. I just I had this screen saver.

that said, "Those destined for greatness. must first walk alone in the desert.". And I just thought, you know what? I need a fresh start. And and and I and. I I think part of it was leaving behind. everyone that would say, "Jim, why would. you change anything? Your life is. great." And I didn't want to be thought. of as my past. I wanted to make sure I. come to a blank slate, if anything is. possible, what could I do? Because I. wanted to make sure that when I um when. it came time for me to die, that I had. fully lived. M. And so when you've.

always had your identity as one thing. and you can no longer have that identity. any longer because of an illness or. medical condition or you lose your job. or whatever, what is the first road back. to finding your true self versus your. role or your identity? >> Yeah. So, when I start with anybody, it. could be working with you, a pro alete, or anyone, the first thing I want to. know is how you want to feel in your. life because when you're at your best, when you're having a great day, when.

you're when you're performing your best, you feel a certain way. And so, >> okay, so this is interesting because all. those years I was doing the Oprah show, I would sit and talk to the audience. afterwards and this led me to asking. people, okay, so what do you really. want? And people would always just say, I just want to be happy. But a lot of. people could not identify what that was. And I say, "Well, what does that mean?". And they say, "Well, I want my kids to. be happy and I, you know, I want to have. a happy family, but what does that. mean?" So, when you identify happiness.

for yourself, how do you tell people to. do that? What how you want to feel? What. does that mean? >> I um everyone wants to be happy, but but. happy is far too limiting. So, um first. of all, I think. >> we really need to identify terms here. So I I define happiness as a positive. temporary feeling based on what's. happening. You get good circumstances, you're happy. Bad circumstances, things. you don't like, you're not happy. >> Yeah. >> And so it's far too unstable. >> And in a way, people come to me very.

often when they're underperforming and. and I help them perform better. And so. in a way, it's like they want better. transactions. They want better results. And so it's kind of like I just want to. be happy, Jim. I want better. circumstances and results. Can you make. me happy? And what I do is I teach them. how to have joy. >> Yeah. >> And I define joy as a deep sense of. well-being, freedom, and gratitude. It's. an inner um buoyancy and delight that. comes from sacrificial love.

>> It's a very different pursuit. >> Mhm. >> Was there a moment in your. life when you realized that success on. the outside did not necessarily equal. peace on the inside? >> Yeah. I think in the desert realizing. that I'd always had this dream of being. a superstar and that what I've always. really wanted is just to feel fully. alive because I would ask ask my clients. like what is it like as a pro baseball. player what is it like why do you play. and then I started to ask everyone that. like what why you do what you do and.

then um I realized that I wanted to feel. fully alive and and the problem that. most of us run into is we have a single. story for our life like I did my single. story was I have to be a pro baseball. player that becomes a superstar and if. that doesn't happen then I'm a total. failure and that was that was an. illusion when you realize that you want. to feel fully alive and that you have. your idea of how that's going to happen. but that's it may not be anything like. that that may not be the path. >> super important to understand.

>> okay so what are the other I think. that's just such a. that is so articulates so beautifully. what I think most people are looking for. I always say everybody wants to be able. to live to the truest. highest expression of themselves as. human beings. That's what we're all. looking for. The path that you take to. get there is up to you. But what that's. the reason why I can relate to anybody. in the world because I know no matter. who you are, where you come from, what. your station or place in life is, you.

want the same thing I want. And that is. >> exactly I feel the same way. I feel like. um the reason inner excellence is. helpful for anybody is that I realize. that it's about optimizing the human. It's we're all human. We're we all have. this this deep need for unconditional. love and a fear of not getting that. love. >> That's right. >> We all want to have a life with amazing. experiences and deepen enriching. relationships where we're learning and. growing and feeling fully alive. Do you. think that is still true now even with I.

just was reading the other day that 86%. of 16 to 38 year olds want to be. influencers that this drive for fame and. this notion that fame will bring you the. ultimate success and that everything is. aligned with how famous you are, how. many clicks you get, how many people. know you, how many likes you get. Do you. think that that's still true that people. have the deeper yearning just to be. alive or has that changed? >> Fully alive, to feel fully alive. Yeah,

it's it's it's it doesn't matter what. they that person thinks that they want. to do like I want to be an influencer. I. want to be rich and famous. Whatever it. is, it's because they want to feel a. certain way. They're looking for the. best possible life and they're like, "Okay, influencer is the way I'm going. to do it. I'm going to be like Oprah. I'm going to be rich and famous.". Whatever it is, they see that. But in. the end, everyone wants that same thing. that to feel fully alive and have have. that deep contentment. >> And then that's why so many people for. when they were seeking the wrong thing. If you're seeking, you know, to be an.

influencer, you're seeking just to be. famous, you you realize how empty the. acquiring of those things are without a. deeper a deeper reason. And the great. thing is that when you develop yourself. and you learn to say walk in love and. not fear and and master your ego, we'll. talk about these things. >> Um then you become better at anything. that you do and then so maybe you're. working on being an influencer but then. maybe you switch to to something. completely different but it doesn't. matter because you've been developing. yourself.

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all just keep driving forward. And that. dear listener is everything. So inner excellence is about training. your mind for extraordinary performance. and the best possible life. That's why. so many athletes love this book and. that's how it started trending in the. first place. But you say that we've. never actually been taught how to manage. our mind. So how do we go about doing. that? >> Echarolei's book has had a huge. influence on you. his first book, the.

the power of now. >> power now. And then yes, >> one of the things that's so great about. what what Eckhart talks about is that. you are not your mind. >> And uh um you are not your thoughts. Yeah. >> And your mind is something that we need. to train. But what I learned in the. desert and this is the number one thing. that I learned that's so important for. everyone to understand is that your. heart is more important than your mind. We use the mind to train the heart. But. but your heart, your spirit, your will, that's your heart sends a signal to your.

mind that that uh gives it the. foundation to think clearly and uh um to. see beauty. >> Yeah. And you also write that how you. feel comes almost entirely from what you. think and you move towards what you. think about. I want to unpack that. concept for a moment. How does what you. think about become your actual. experience in life? So, one of the. number one things about inner excellence. is is learning to expand what you. believe is possible. And beliefs are. feelings and thoughts become feelings.

And so, learning how to handle feelings. is the one of the most important things. anyone can ever do because most people. are never going to reach their potential. in life. And because they come to the. edge of their beliefs, the edge of their. feelings and they're too uncomfortable. and then they back away. Mhm. >> And so, but one thing that's that's um I. did with a couple of guys that had a. mental block that I've been using with. every single client now is help them. understand how to deal with these. feelings and these fears. So, there's.

five questions to ask yourself. Like, say you're really nervous about some. event or um or something that's giving. you anxiety. One is um am I willing to. face my fears? Two is am I willing to fail? Three is am. I willing to look foolish? Four, am I willing to face any feeling? This is a big one because most people. are not willing to face any feeling. And. five, am I willing to face any feeling. and sit with it if it never goes away.

without trying to push it away? >> Well, that's a lot. That is a lot. Most. people don't even want to look foolish. I mean, it number three, you know, most. people don't want to do it if it's going. to make me look foolish or other people. are going to think that I'm foolish, >> right? And that's the ego mastery that. we need if you want to live a great. life. We have to learn to how about this. part of our mind that's always. threatened, always comparing, always. puts you on trial and how not to page. 108, you talk about the ego. Everything. is here to teach me and help me. It's.

all working for my good. The ego is. caught up in temporary pleasure while. mastery is focused on permanent and. powerful virtues. that's been one of the. guiding light principles in my life. How. did you come to know this? >> Well, in the desert, I realized that the. heart is the key. But then, um, the big. question was, well, how do we train the. heart? Like, I've never heard anyone say. this. I didn't know what what that. meant. And then I, um, I really just. looked at the Bible and uh, understood.

that that humans were created for. relationship. And the deepest need that. we all have is for unconditional love. It's our greatest need, our greatest. desire, and our greatest power. >> Yeah. >> Because love is fearless. What happens. as humans is we get so caught up in our. own lives and and so caught up in the. transactions. I just want better. results. >> Yes. >> But realizing that you don't know what's. best for you and that uh my continually. thinking about myself is what's limiting.

my life. That self-centerness is the. biggest challenge that we face in. performance and in life. And if you can. get outside of yourself and so there's. no self-p protection whatsoever, that's when you got possibilities. >> Well, you say there are two paths in. life. A life of freedom on a narrow. risky path that involves facing your. fears to pursue your dreams and true. self or a guarded life where you travel. a wider path of relative comfort and. safety to pursue false temporary rewards. with less risk and fewer possibilities.

Really, you're what I've learned, you're. either walking towards fear or you're. walking towards love all the time. >> Yeah. Exactly. When I think about inner. excellence, I think about selfmastery. And when I think about selfmastery, I. think about mastering the ego. The part. of your mind always threatened, always. comparing, right? Never satisfied. >> Right? >> And when I think about mastering the. ego, I think about being three things. Unimbarable, unoffendable, and unerritable. >> unmbarrassable, unoffendable, and. uniritable. And so most of my life um.

I've been a slave to my ego. And so in. other words um I didn't want to be. embarrassed. I didn't want to look. foolish. Um I was constantly comparing. and what do people think about me? It's. human nature. >> Yes. That's what human beings do. Yes. And so now you have your. I was talking to somebody the other day. and they were saying um I said so now. have you mastered the ego or managed it? And they said no I've alchemized it. which I think is pretty powerful. Yeah.

So, like I said, in just a few weeks, uh, Inner Excellence sold hundreds of. thousands of copies and now the message. is connecting with readers across. generations. Joti is joining us. Welcome. >> Hi there. >> Hi there. >> Um, so great to our conversation. >> Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. So. my story is, you know, like every little. girl, I dreamt of Cinderella story, the. white picket fence, two kids, the dog, the man. Yeah. >> But my life ended up taking a slightly.

different path. Couldn't find a man. So. I jumped into my career. And early on in. my career, I had this white board where. I had written 200 grand, made the 200, then it was 500, made the 500 grand, >> then it was a million. And the year that. I made 1.5 million, I had to get an. emergency hysterctomy. And my commission check hit my bank. account the day I was lying in my.

hospital bed. And that was such a super. crazy surreal moment when I just. realized this this isn't it. And 5 years. later, you know, I'm just still on the. same hamster wheel of the corporate. world because I don't know really what. else to do. And I feel like I sort of. set the table for a life that did not. come to sit with me. So my question for. Jim is when your identity gets shattered.

and you don't even get the opportunity. to try, where do you go from there? Yeah, I. think that's so common in Western. culture especially. There's this. obsession with with being successful. materially. And in the book I talk about. possessions, achievements, looks, money, and status. >> and realizing that um what you really. want is so much more. You want to feel. fully alive. You want to have a life. with amazing experiences and deepen. enriching relationships where you're. learning and growing and making a. difference. And you can absolutely have. that and you can start pursuing that.

today. But it's understanding, okay, well part of it I'm going to have to. learn. um more self-awareness about my. ego. The ego, the part of me that's. always comparing, always threatened, um. always on trial. Am I good enough? Did I. do am I okay? Do people love me? Am I. accepted? And until you really get um. more self-awareness on that, it's going. to be really hard to pull yourself out. of that trap. And no one's going to pull. you out of it. That's what, you know, I.

left for the desert because I had to. find a way to stop and pull myself out. of it. And I'm not saying you have to. stop everything and quit your job and. move to the desert, but if you want to. live an extraordinary life, you're going. to need to learn that what do I really. want in in my life? Are you thinking. about that question right now? >> You know, I am. And I wonder is it. possible to do both in parallel? So, you. know, can I still keep on this highpace, highfast, high demanding tech sales job. and not have to move to the desert or is.

it sort of like you have to make that. drastic shift? important thing is to. understand what is my number one. everybody worships something everyone. has something that they love most and. you got to make that decision now what. what is what is it going to be my number. one that's a good question. >> because if you don't make the decision. then the decision is made for you and. it's going to be making money in your. job and being successful and that's okay. if that's what you want but you've. already told me that was empty and so. realizing okay what is going to what is.

the most important thing to me and then. you can start taking steps towards Do. you have any idea? >> You know, I uh I think that it is a. family or or giving back or being able. to um have children or raise children. But again, I think I'm so stuck in this. while because this goal of hitting this. financial goal wasn't what I wanted it. to be in my mind. What if it's the same. thing and I can't like give a kid back, right? So, I think I'm just sort of.

stuck in this. You can start with how. you want to feel because like can you. share with us like how do you want to. feel in your life if anything's. possible? How like when you're having. the best day ever like how you feel? >> Carefree, freespirited, light. >> When's the last time you felt that? >> It's been a very very long time. I'm not. going to lie. >> Have you ever felt that in your whole. life? When you're a kid? Yeah, I've I've. definitely felt that when, you know, I. met my now fiance and and fell in love.

and was just so super in love with him. and still am. So, I feel that every time. I I'm in his arms or if we're at a music. festival or, you know, I think that. would be the the biggest moment that I. have felt that way. >> Well, you can feel that. Again, with. inner excellence, what we do is is we. start off with how you want to feel and. we start to design our life around. getting that feeling more often. We. don't want to be a slave to our.

feelings, but when you're at your best. and the life that you want to live, the. best possible life, feels a certain way. And the more you understand, okay, I. want to feel peace and joy and and and. freedom, then if you think about that. every day and you're like, okay, am I. feeling that today at work? What do I. need to do to get that feeling today? Right now. What do I need to do that. right now? And then you might realize, okay, I got to make a few changes, whether it's changing the whole job or. changing how you're arranging your days.

We have given you some food for thought. >> I love it. I love it. >> Tap into your own inner excellence and. have the best possible life. That's what. I'm excited about cuz I can see it in. your eyes that you're think you're. you're having your own ahas here. You're. thinking about it differently and you're. thinking about the questions you need to. start asking yourself. Thank you, Joy. Thank you. >> Thank you. Try not to cry. Thank you. [laughter]. >> Great to meet you. >> Now, go ahead. Have a have a full on cry. as soon as we hang up. Okay. No, these.

are really important questions for your. life. And one of the reasons why inner. excellence has been such a powerful tool. for so many people is I think for a lot. of people particularly young people it's. the first time they've tapped into there. is more there is more than the doing. thing that you've been doing and what. Jim has so beautifully articulated is. that it's possible for you to get to the. more by asking yourself the right.

questions to get there. And so none of. us has to just take the path that we. always thought was the way cuz you you. have now just exactly shown what I was. saying earlier. So many people want to. be influencers. They want to so that. they can get to the $ 1.5 million and. you get to that and you realize. what is what is this? It's wonderful. I. can have the things I can have my. beautiful things and autrammont but what. is it really? And so the fact that.

you're having these thoughts as you are. sharing with us today that this is big. This is big girl. Let's celebrate this. This is big. This is what the journey is. all about. >> Absolutely. Thank you for writing the. book, Jim. I'm just Yeah. Can't wait for. what's next. >> So great to meet you. >> Great to meet you. And so your advice to. somebody who's on the journey and. seeking to remove themselves from being. controlled by their ego and wanting to.

master that in a way that allows them to. to to be the greatest advantage to. themselves is what? >> You know, one of the things that uh um. you can think about is when you have. something that you're really your ego. saying, I really have to have this. It's. it's really important and I can't screw. this up. is to ask yourself, what do I. want more? To be successful in this. moment or to master my ego to get what I. want right now, even though I don't know. what's best for me. Do I just want what. I want or do I want to live a great life.

and not and and get better at these. moments? Because obviously the wise. answer is I want to get better at these. moments and I don't want to be a slave. to my ego. And if that's the case, then. we know that the best thing for you may. not be to get what you want. So you can. learn to embrace that uncomfortable. feeling. I hope you're enjoying my. conversation with Jim Murphy. Jim has. now written a new book called [music]. The Best Possible Life: How to Live with. Deep Contentment, Joy, and Confidence. [music] Pick up a copy and while you're. at it, maybe one for a friend. This is, first of all, a beautiful book title,

The Best Possible Life, cuz everybody. wants the best possible life. Do you. think it's possible? Do you think it's. possible, Jim, that everybody can have. the best possible life? >> Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So, um, in the. past as I was growing up, I I just. really thought it was about getting. really, really good circumstances. Yes. Which, as we know now that I defined as. happiness, and it's just so fleeting. based on, you know, there could be a. worldwide pandemic could wipe everything. out. Like, there's so much out of your. control. >> Yeah. >> And so, I was talking to this this. athlete the other day, and he'd never.

heard of inner excellence. And uh we. were talking about golfing in a major. and I said um you could go out there and. you could have the same experience that. you would feel on the back nine in a. major like the biggest event in in golf. You could feel those nerves. You could. feel that aliveness next weekend in your. own tournament because your. circumstances is not what dictates how. you feel. How you feel is is based on. your interpretation of your. circumstances. what you see and and uh.

um the beliefs that you have. And so. what we want to do is learn to cultivate. the imagination and and pull ourselves. out of the the all these transactions. that we can't control. >> What do you find is the biggest. stumbling block to people being able to. cultivate their imagination? >> Busyiness. It's being in it's being in a world. that's so busy and so much going on out. of your control. It's like I don't have. time to do this. And so it's so. important to make sure am I going in the.

right direction. >> because I think it's it's uh it's really. sad to spend your life um getting really. good at something that doesn't matter. >> Yeah. So people who are trying to figure. out what does matter for them should be. asking themselves specifically what. question? >> Well, it starts with how do I want to. feel and then we go into how do I want. to live? Who do I want to become? What. is my purpose? >> And most people are going to say well I. want to live. I want to have enough. money to pay my bills and I want to be. able to, you know, live in a nice house.

and whatever. But I'm trying to get. people to think about what is the more. what is the more that that it is that. they're looking for and to be able to. articulate that in a way that you're. that becomes your north star. So when I. ask people this, what do you really. want? Why are you doing what you're. doing? And then and then they'll say. they'll give me an answer and then I. keep asking them what what does that. give you? And then in the end, what we. finally get often is freedom. I just. want to be able to um do what I want,

when I want, how I want. But I think. that's also an illusion. I don't think. um having a life of the most choices is. what people want most. I think what. people want is to be connected to a. vision and a purpose beyond themselves. You know, freedom, the root of the word. freedom, it it means to belong. >> Yeah. >> To be loved. So people being able to. create a vision. I I said this so many. years ago. You want a vision for your. life and you want a vision for your.

family's life so that everybody within. the household is headed in the direction. of of of that vision or that dream. Correct. >> Yeah. And freedom is really um about. getting out of this natural. self-centerness that we all have. This. this inherent human self-centerness to. see everything from um. >> um my eyes and how it impacts me. It's. it's important especially when we're. younger, not to mention, you know, just. safety. Yeah. I've got to look both ways. when I cross the street. >> But this self-reliance becomes.

problematic as we get older, right? Because if you want to do something. great, you have to connect with a a. power beyond yourself. >> Absolutely. >> Self-centerness leads to fear. >> So, we have another listener joining us. Lindsay, I hear you recommended Inner. Excellence in your annual holiday letter. this year. tell us tell us how this book. uh has impacted your life and why you. wanted to pass it on. >> Okay. Thanks so much for having me. I've. learned so much from the both of you. Jim, I read your book last year, loved.

it, but I am having trouble with one of. the lessons that you recommend about. becoming detached from the outcomes of. your goals. And then Oprah, earlier this. year I saw a news clip from an an. interview you gave in the 80s where you. said your talk show will do well. But. even if it doesn't, you will do well. because what matters in life is how you. treat others and how you treat yourself, which I think is a masterclass in having.

both confidence and detachment. So this. show that just getting underway. nationally. >> it's it's going to do it'll do well. >> and if it doesn't. >> and if it doesn't I will still do well. I will do well because I'm not defined. by a show. You know I think we are. defined by the way we treat ourselves. and the way we treat other people. >> But I'm someone who doesn't necessarily. let myself enjoy the process and I can. become very attached to my goals. So.

Jim, my question for you is what are. some practical strategies to practice. detachment? >> So the first thing that that is really. important is is to be very intentional. in how you speak to yourself and you. speak anything that you speak out loud. because beliefs are what's running your. life. We never want to say anything. present tense that we don't want to. continue which you kind of just did. You. said I'm someone who who doesn't focus. on the process. It's just the. attachments and the results. And you. don't want to be that way. So the first.

thing is we always say if if you want to. share something about the past about. that you don't want to continue make. sure that you say it's past tense. >> So you would say in the past. >> I was not able to you know be free from. attachment and and uh um wasn't enjoying. the process. >> And so um that's the first in fact. that's one of the nine disciplines of. inner excellence to speak the truth. about the past. We never want to put. labels on ourselves like a lot of people. say my anxiety. Anxiety is very high.

levels now. So we never want to say. claim it unless it's something because I. don't tell people what to do. I um I ask. a lot of questions and help them clarify. what they want most and I help them get. it. And so I'll say is that something. you want to own your the anxiety? And so. if they say no then I said what I think. you might consider is is don't claim it. as your own. Then don't say it's my. anxiety say the anxiety that you've had. So that's the first thing is is to. really be about your your your language. >> Very helpful. >> Yeah. Very helpful. >> And and let me just share this story. with you. Uh I learned detachment the.

hard way. There was a movie, first of. all, there was a book called Beloved. written by Tony Morrison, one of the. great alltime. And I worked on that. movie for 10 years. And I was so. excited. I was on the cover of Time. magazine. I did like 700 interviews when. that movie was coming out. And on the. night of the release of the movie, I was. so excited and had a party at my house. and everybody was there. And the next. morning, Saturday morning, I got a call.

saying, "The movie has failed. The movie. has failed. It's only been out one day.". I said, "The movie has failed. Box. office didn't do I was beaten by the. bride of Chucky." Okay. >> Okay. >> Tony Morrison, beloved, was beaten by. the bride of Chucky. I didn't know. Chucky had a bride or there was a Chucky. at [laughter] the time, but Okay. So, I. learned a lot about that and I. immediately went into the thing that I. my go-to was macaroni and cheese and.

>> comfort over com comfort and overeating. >> Yeah. >> And I was in a real depression. >> about that movie for several months. Like I was I could feel myself sinking, sinking, sinking, sinking. Even though I. had to go to work every day, I could. feel I was behind the veil. And I one. day had a and had Gary Zukov on my show. who wrote Seed of the Soul, who's been a. great spiritual teacher for me. And I. said, "Gary, I think I'm I'm in some. kind of depression over Beloved." And he. was saying how much he loved Beloved. I.

said, "Well, I'm in a depression about. that." And he said, "Why?" I said, "Because, you know, I did this movie and. then then it was it bombed at the box. office and it's" and he said, "Well, why. did you do the movie? What was your. intention behind doing the movie? What. was the reason?" And I said, "Well, I. did the movie because. I wanted people to know that even though. an entire race of people, my people, endured slavery, that we came out on the. other side of it and we were still able.

to love.". >> And he said, >> "I felt that.". >> I said, "Well, I didn't want just you to. feel it. I wanted millions [laughter] of. other people to feel." And he said, "Let's talk about the process of doing. it. Let's talk about what you felt when. you were doing it and what you felt when. you were offering it to the world and. when the fact that the world has not. received it, but what did you feel like. in the offering?" I said, "Oh my god, it. was the best experience, the best.". He goes, "That is what matters." So now.

that you've given it to the world, it's. up to the world to decide if they want. it or the world doesn't want it. But you. did what you were supposed to do. And. that is how I learned. That was in 1998. And from that day forward, everything I. ever did, I did with the idea of it's. about the journey for me. >> It's about the experience. It's about. the why of why I'm doing it. And if you. receive it, you receive it. And if you. don't, >> I did what I was supposed to do. Does.

that help you? >> Yes. Very much so. >> It's about how it makes you feel and why. you are doing it. and you are doing it. in service to something that's bigger. than yourself. >> And if you are able to accomplish that. and be with that, that is what matters. You offer it. And so I do everything. everything I do now. It's like it's a. gift I'm offering. >> You you like it or you didn't like it. Oh, you didn't like it? Well, I sure did. love picking it out for you. >> I sure did love love doing that for you. Yeah. >> And that's how I learned to detach. back.

to my favorite part of inner excellence. where Jim says the purpose of your life. is to learn, grow, and serve others. And. when you focus on that, you can help. yourself become detached. >> If you really are focused on the. learning and the growing, which I. learned so much from that process of. doing that movie and failing, and also. in the service to others. And now I'm. only serving people who are willing to. listen. So if you don't want to listen. and you don't care what I'm saying,

that's okay cuz I'm not talking to you. I'm only talking to the people who are. >> Oprah, that book Seed of the Soul was. really meaningful to you. There was a. paragraph that you read twice in your. book and it was about intention. >> Yeah. >> Can you share a little bit more about. that? >> Well, intention is at one with cause and. effect. I learned from Gary that the. third law of motion in physics, which is. every action is an equal and opposite. reaction, that before there is actually. an action, there's a motivation behind. that action. And we all have it. And. that the intention is going to determine.

what the ultimate reaction is going to. be. And so if your intention is to serve. and to offer this as a gift, that's one. thing. If your intention, as Gary said. to me, as he was asking me about, you. know, me being depressed about, if your. intention is, when I said, "Well, my. intention was not just that you would. enjoy the movie, Gary, millions of. people." He goes, "You would have made. another movie if you wanted to speak to. millions of people.

>> That movie is not speaking to millions. of people. You did the movie you wanted. to do because that's how you wanted to. speak to." And he's right. When we. tested that movie, everybody said, "Well, is she a ghost? Is it Casper the. ghost? Is it whatever? So you knew that. it wasn't resonating with the audience. in the same way that it cuz it's Tony. Morrison. Okay. And so he said you would. have you would have done another movie. cuz that was an art house movie. That. wasn't a movie for millions of people. So that was the big lesson for me. But.

it really taught me detachment. Don't do. anything. >> unless you are willing to offer it as a. gift to the world. offer it as a gift to. a person personally and if. >> yeah I actually one one time years ago. and then I'll stop talking about myself. okay but this was the other great. detachment years ago because everybody. in my family was asking me for money I. bought everybody together and I had what. I called the dinner of a lifetime and I. gave out checks and trusts and all of.

that to the people and the lawyer who. set all of that up to me said. >> this is this is after beloved he said. you have to give it with complete. detachment and knowing that if every. single person in this room takes that. money and decides they want to burn it. or they want to pee on it, you're going. to be okay with it. >> Yeah. >> And if you can do that, then give it. away. >> And that's what I did. >> Oprah, one of the things I think might. be interesting for this um conversation. is is in that book Best Possible Life, I.

talk about these three worlds that we. live in. And I use this with every. client and and it's not in inner. excellence. Um, essentially the third. world is a world of results and. circumstances that you talked about was. really, you know, we've all obsessed. about that. You know, it's the bottom. line, win or lose, success or failure. So that's what I call the third world. Then the second world is your inner. world and all the actions that follow. And then the first world is the unseen. world that controls the world we can. see, touch and feel. >> And it's the the first world is the. world of of uh everything that's.

eternal. And then the third world is the. world of everything that's finite. And. so in the second world, we you wake up. and you're in your second world and. you're working. But what happened to me. is I was obsessing about this third. world. But if you want to be great in. your life at anything, we need to learn. how to be fully engaged in the second. world, unattached to this world. So we. got to constantly pull ourselves out of. the third world into the second and. first world. And the first world is is. uh is your life purpose and and that's. where inner peace is and joy and love.

and patience and all those great things. Has the question of detachment been. answered for you today, sister? >> Yes. Yes. Going forward with offering. gifts and the power of intention and. focusing on the first world. >> Yeah. The first world. >> Thank [clears throat] you so much. Thanks. Thanks. >> Thank you so much. >> Thank you. So, you've worked with elite. performers and athletes and leaders and. people operating at the highest levels. What have you noticed that they were all.

quietly struggling with that the world. might not be able to see? Is there a. common thread? >> Yeah, that we're all human. And and I. think when you realize that the. superstars, celebrities, they all really. want the same thing and they have the. same fears, you know, >> doesn't matter how many square feet you. have, it's the same thing. >> Yeah. And they're they're also going to. be self-conscious that like did they did. people like me? Like how did I do right. there? Like it's not like you, okay, now. I'm Oprah. Now I just relax. I'm all.

good for the rest of my life. Like. there's still being human because we're. created for relationship. And so. understanding that every human has this. deep need to connect with others and. connect with God and and feel centered. and connected. >> Justin posted this about how Jim's book. has impacted his life. See what Justin. said here? >> You may have heard of this, you may have. not. It comes from this book called. Inner Excellence. Four years of college. basketball, I swear it made me go on. like a spiritual journey almost. These.

are the negative voices inside of your. head. They block learning, growth, and. performance. The critic is the one. that's constantly judging everything. May even make you question yourself. The. monkey mind is exactly what it sounds. like. It's when your head's just jumping. all over the place, characterized by a. lack of focus and then overanalyzing. everything. The last one is the. trickster. This is the voice in your. head that leads to self-doubt. What I've. learned from that book is that you have. to become a master of your own ego. >> Most importantly, you got to be present,

and you can't do that if you're worrying. about the past or the future. This book. really helped me when I was at low. points in basketball and just in my life. in general. >> Well, Justin is joining us from Rhode. Island. Hey, Justin. Thank you. >> Well, thank you guys for having me. >> That's so great. What made what made you. post that that video? Basically, I I was. struggling a lot too um really with my. journey in basketball and inner. excellence has just been such a great.

point for me to really reference my life. and it's really helped me throughout my. four years of college basketball. >> Wow. It's it became a spiritual guide. for you. >> Yes, definitely. This book taught me to. be really present and overall just enjoy. the process of basketball rather than. the results. My question is for a. college athlete like me whose entire. identity has always been built around. their sport, how do I figure out who I. am now that I'm done playing? >> Yeah, thanks. Thanks for asking. And so.

we were talking earlier about how you. want to feel. So there's a few things. that we would start with is be clear on. how you want to feel in your life and. how you don't want to feel and then. clarify um how you want to live and face. adversity and the person you want to. become. And ideally, we want to put that. into one life purpose, one sentence. >> Give us an example, Jim. >> Well, my purpose is is to share God's. love, wisdom, and courage with athletes. and leaders around the world. And so, it's so easy to get caught up in in uh.

um I just want to be successful as a. basketball player. I just want to, you. know, make a lot of money. I was talking. to a Major League Baseball player the. day before opening day, and he said, you. know, I want to have a great season. I. want to hit 300 and hit, you know, 20. home runs or 30 home runs or whatever. And I said, ' Essentially, you're. asking, well, um, well, how do I make. this year great? And I said, you need to. focus on personal growth because if you. just you need to regularly pull yourself. out of all the transactions of daily. life and and remember that it is a. spiritual journey because there's way. too much out of your control. There's.

there's chaos and fears and and things. that you you uh don't know what to do. with. We got to pull oursel out of that. and and make sure that you're clear on. how I want to feel, how I want to live, who I want to become, and what I value. most and start to create a life out of. that. >> So I think and you know after reading. inner excellence that it's about asking. yourself the bigger questions and being. able to answer the bigger questions. I. mean even though your life has been. wrapped up in basketball and you are a. great athlete at this moment in your.

life that is not all that you are or. that all that you will be. So the bigger. question of who do you want to be and. what do you want that life to look like. beyond the success of basketball are the. questions you should be forming for. yourself now. That's that's what I hear. Jim Jim saying. And what are those. questions for you? Have you thought. about it? >> Yeah. Um, basically what brings me the. most passion, what makes me feel most. free in life and I have a really big.

passion for health and fitness and also. cooking I found a love for while I was. at college the last four years. So. >> uh those those are the real ones that. make me feel present and uh bring joy to. my life. One of the things that I think. is really important is to um the. greatest lives that I've ever lived, there's passion. And passion um. literally means to suffer. To find. something that you're willing to suffer. for and in the end um making a.

difference in someone's life. So if you. want to make a difference in someone's. life with fitness and cooking, you can. do that. And remember that's why you're. doing it. because if it just becomes. about um you know making money then it. becomes very stressful. >> Yeah. >> What was your biggest takeaway from the. book? >> So my favorite part I actually have uh. the book with me but the diagram that. it's a the the diamond and it's put Zo. right at the top. Zo the ultimate. feeling. And that's my favorite part.

trying to find that zo in my life and. living in it and being fully immersed. So that's the Greek word for fullness of. life. >> Yes. Yes. Yeah. Wonderful. Justin, thank. you so much. What what brought the book. to you anyway? How did you discover the. book? >> So, funny enough, it was a random. present from my grandmother. She uh she. got me it. I didn't know anything about. it and I just loved it. I fell in love. with it. My coach would see me reading. it. He's an avid reader, too. And he he. was really impressed with it and I was.

really impressed with it as well. >> And so now you've passed it on to other. friends, right? >> Oh, I tell everyone first. >> I know. So that's what happened. >> Got to read if you're an athlete, read. this. >> And even if you're not an athlete, it. applies. Yeah. And And so did you have. you walked away? I mean, it's hard when. you're in the middle of it because when. I was doing the Oprah show all those. years, 25 years, um, I actually realized. I was more than a talk show host. And I. realized that I was that the show was.

more than just a show. But I knew and. and and also one of the reasons why it. was easy for me to bring it to an end. myself without you know anybody you know. telling me I had to or being you know or. ratings being bad is because I could. feel that it was time to move on to. something else. And so easier for me I. think than a lot of people if you. suddenly if you're an athlete and you. hurt yourself and you can no longer do.

it again and and that's your full. identity. But I always realized that I. that that life itself was bigger than. this thing that I was doing. Have you. reached that point yet where you realize. that you your life is bigger than. basketball? I'm starting to get there. These last couple months, it's been. tough, but I'm starting to realize. there's bigger purposes than what's in. store for myself. And I think helping.

others and putting something before. myself is what will fully lead me to my. passion. >> Oh, that's wonderful. Thank you for. sharing your story with us. Thank you. >> Thank you, so much. I I think it's. wonderful that someone in his. generation, as young as he is, has come. across the book and is now fascinated by. this journey that we're all on. So, Jim, you describe yourself as someone who. worshiped the god of success. So, I know. a lot of people listening, everybody's. pursuing success. So, what's wrong with.

pursuing success? >> Yeah, there's there's nothing wrong with. it. The problem is when you become a. slave to it. >> Yeah. >> And I don't tell people what to do. I. try and help them clarify what they want. most and help them get it. And that's. why it's really making sure that you. redefine success. Like with inner. excellence, what we do is we have four. daily goals. And the the overarching. goal is to learn and grow because like I. shared, you don't know what's best for. you. So we want to make sure every day. we're learning and growing. >> And then the four daily goals, give the. best of what you have every day. >> Be present because in the present moment.

there's no fear. Be grateful because. gratitude is directly linked to inner. peace. Inner peace is linked to inner. strength. Inner strength is linked to. mental toughness and they're all linked. to beauty. And then the fourth goal is. to focus on your routines and only what. you can control. And the number one the. first goal the about giving the best of. what you have. What's really important. there is understanding some days are. going to be my what I call the 30 or 40%. days. You don't got much. >> Yeah. It's the best of what you have on. this given day.

>> And understand like I don't have much. today. Recognize I don't have much today. and it's okay. I'm gonna give the best. of what I have and and it may not be. good at all, but that's all right. >> Thank you for writing this book. Thank. you for writing them both. Uh, has. writing the books actually do you feel. that. you've been enhanced by your own. writing? >> Oh my gosh. So, the week of January. 12th, Sunday, is is the day A Brown read.

the book. And uh I'm walking around. downtown um Dallas by myself, somber um. and I look up at the skyscraper and that. book, the first version of that when I. self-published, now it's published by. Hashet. I look up at the skyscraper and. I felt um God asking me, at the time I. didn't know, it was just this thought in. my head, but now I think it was God. asking me, Jim, would you rather have. written inner excellence and everything. that you learned in writing it or would. you rather own that skyscraper for. hundreds of millions of dollars? And I. thought about it. I thought, "No, I.

wouldn't trade it for hundreds of. millions of dollars." And that was the. month I I didn't have the money to pay. off my credit cards. And so I thought, "Well, well, that's pretty significant. At least you got that.". >> And then a few hours later, everything. changed. >> I think that's divine, don't you? >> Yeah, for sure. >> I think that's definitely God saying, "Good answer, boy." [laughter]. That was God saying, "Good answer.". Thank you for being here, Jim. Thank. you. Thanks to you, Justin. Thank you. for uh zooming in with us. and Lindsay. and Joy. Thank you all. Go well.

>> Thank you, Oprah. >> Thank you, Jim. It was great. And thank you to our. friends at Geico for presenting today's. episode. If you're looking at how to. achieve peak mental performance, [music]. pick up one or even both of Jim's books, Inner Excellence and the Best Possible. Life. Simply scan the QR codes right. there on your screen. our listeners. [music]. tell us that the podcast is resonating. with you and is serving as a bright spot. in your day. That means a lot to me. So, here's [music] the thing. I would really.

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