Growing Your Passion into a Business with Oprah and Jürgen Ingels

So, I think one of the things that uh is. important to point out is that your. origin story. and my origin story are similar. Had. fathers who were very strict and even. though we were born on opposite sides of. the ocean and under very different. circumstances, what we were good at as. young people, what we were interested in. focused on growing, yours was parties, mine was was was speaking, uh led to a. career. Hi, everybody, and welcome to the Oprah.

podcast. And I thank you for. giving us your time to be here. And I. know that life gets busy and you want to. be mindful about how you spend the. minutes of your day. So, it does mean a. great deal to me that you join me here. for conversations that for these times. we're living in or anytime that we'd be. living in, uh give us ideas on how to live better, how to live more fully. So, I just. wanted to tell you all I met my guest. today when he invited me to Belgium, a.

place I'd never been, to speak at his. conference that he calls the Supernova. conference. And I was intrigued by that. title. You know, a good title is. everything. And I was also intrigued by. the invitation because I really enjoy. discovering new experiences and and and. new places. And I would say I'm in one. of the biggest periods of exploration in. my life that I've ever been because all. those years I was working on the show, I.

just work work work work work all the. time. So, when I got the invitation to. go to Brussels, I said yes and met. Jürgen Ingels, who is one of the great. tech entrepreneurs. Born and raised in Belgium, Jürgen. Ingels is a tech pioneer, entrepreneur, and venture capitalist. He attained. global business renown as the founder of. Clear2Pay, which became the world leader. in payment software. In 2014, with more. than 1,200 employees in 14 countries. Clear to Pay was sold to tech giant FIS.

Jürgen has appeared as a judge on the. Flemish version of Shark Tank. And he is the author of Start, Grow, Sell, a book that reveals 50 important. lessons, not just for business but also. the business of life. That's why I. invited him to the Oprah podcast to. share them with you. He hosts an epic gathering of the most. innovative minds in the heart of Europe. And we had such a great conversation.

Jürgen was interviewing me on the stage, but I really wanted to talk to Jürgen. about his book, which. I said shared this with you on the. stage. So, I guess I don't know who sent. me this, somebody who's running the. conference said, "Oh, you know he wrote. a book." So, my comms person said, "Oh, oh, send us the book." So, I said, "Oh, I'll just skim through the book to see. what the book Yeah, it is. Well, it's. like. >> is called Start, Grow, Sell. So, I. started skimming it just so that when I.

met you I'd be able to say, "Oh, yeah, I. I know you wrote a book.". And then, because I was jet-lagged, I. stayed up and I read the whole thing. until 4:30 in the morning. Cool. And. uh afterwards I thought, "This is so. helpful. Will be so useful to people who. are starting out and don't know the ins. and outs, or even if you are already in. the ins and outs. And so, that's why I invited you. you're here. Yeah, I'm very very glad to.

be here. >> all the way from Brussels to be here. Yeah. Just to come to this tea house and. then you're flying back. Exactly. So, I. want to talk about Start, Grow, Sell, 50. tips for entrepreneurial greatness. And. the reason why I wanted to talk to him. because I I know so many of you want to. start your own business and people have. great ideas, but you need more than a. great idea. I think that this becomes a. blueprint for life, not just business. But, let's go back to how you got.

started, because I think knowing how you. got started will help a lot of people. understand. what I say here in this podcast a lot. Nothing you've ever done is lost. So, I. love the story that you tell in the. beginning of the book when you had a. strict father. Yes, very nice father, but he was very strict. >> Nice father, but a strict father who. didn't want you partying past 12:00. 12:00. And to get around that, you created a. way that you could party and then.

eventually started the business. >> Yeah. Well, I wanted to go out. I was 16 years. old and my dad said, "Yeah, you can go. out, but you we have you have to be home. at 12:00." And I said, "Dad, it's it. only starts at 11:00." He said, "I don't. care. You you'll be home at 12:00.". >> How many of us have had said that to our. fathers? The party doesn't get started until. 12:00. Yes. And I thought, "Well, this. is not going to be fun." So, I I thought. about it creatively and went back to my. father and said, "If I organize the. party, can I stay longer?" And he said, "Well, if you organize it, you'll learn. something. You can stay as long as you.

want." So, I started organizing parties. in my hometown, uh which was fun. So, I started. >> parties for yourself or for other. people? >> other people. So, I invited like first. 100 people and 200 people. And then I. started in once a month and then the. other week, twice a month, three times a. month, every week, and then other. cities. So, So, the lesson for this is. you're told you can't have a party, you. can't stay out late at parties, you have. to be home by midnight, you want to be. able to get around that, you're an. enterprising teenager who then decides,

"I'm going to just. create parties, invent parties for other. people. That way, I have to stay at the. parties, also clean up after the. parties." And so, what happened to that. midnight curfew? It went by the wayside. >> It went by the way and also, I think my. dad knew that I was going to learn a lot. about, "Okay, if you organize a party. you have to like organize make a budget. You have to find sponsors. You have to. sell tickets all of that stuff and I. think well I couldn't ask anymore. because my father died in 99, but I. think in the back of his mind he. probably thought my son maybe that's a.

good push for my son to be a bit more. entrepreneurial. I guess. So And so. what what was so striking to me about. that story is you started out as a. teenager organizing parties and then I. get invited to come to Brussels for one. of the biggest. entrepreneurial parties. It's like a. summit of all the entrepreneurs Mhm. all around the world coming to Brussels. So you took this small idea and turned. it into this big thing that at the time. of course you didn't know you were.

growing it into that. >> no for sure. I mean if I would have if. you would have told me that I would have. said. but it's it's because of the experience. and also like inspiring people from from. the conference is something I really. enjoy doing a lot and that's also why I. started Supernova to to take what I've. learned organizing parties because it's. very similar but then also. showing how you can inspire people by. inviting people to come and talk about. the future about technology about life. and so on. So So I think one of the. things that's important to point out is. that your origin story and my origin.

story are similar had fathers who were. very strict and even though we're born. on opposite sides of the ocean and under. very different circumstances what we. were good at as young people what we. were interested in focused on growing. yours was parties mine was was was. speaking. led to a career and one of the things. one of the. many points you make in the 50 lessons. for successful entrepreneurship is that. you need to.

not. be engaged in what you call sterile. mediocrity. Can you talk about that? Yeah, it's in the chapter focus on your. talents. What I mean with that is. basically I'll give an example if if you. have children and they come home with. their uh school results. Sometimes, let's say that they have three straight. A's and they have a D. Uh then, as a. parent, you typically say to the child. "Focus on the D." Focus on the D. And. so, the child says, "Okay, I need to. focus on the D." Gets maybe the D into a. C because he didn't like it, he doesn't. have the talent for it. But, while he's.

doing that, because time is restricted, his A's also go to B. And so, what you. see actually in my case, I've been like. educated to be uh average. And average. is not wrong. But, in these days today, your average is not good enough anymore. because you have to actually compete. with the rest of the world. And so, you. have to focus on your talent. >> to be average because the system. Exactly. Yes. And so, my point is you. really have to focus on your talents. You have to look at what you're good at. Everybody has a talent. Look at what. you're good at and try to improve on the. talents and work with people who also.

are very good at these talents and. create like a kind of company with. talented people. And so, focus on your. talent. Don't waste time on stuff that. you're not good at. And Well, not only. that, but you always had the mind for, as you'll see, cuz you decided to switch. your majors in college uh from. engineering to political and social. sciences. Is that correct? And your. father said that you would have to pay. for it on your own. And because of that, you took a job at a fast-food. restaurant. What did you learn from. working there? You're one of those guys. that no matter what you were doing, you. took a lesson from whatever you were. doing and you used that lesson to move.

you forward, which is why I wanted to. have this conversation because everybody. has a life where they've done things. they didn't want to do. You're one of those people who did the. things you didn't want to do and turned. that into something that was more. palatable for you. Well, when I when I started, um. I I my parents were not very rich. And. so, they were not rich people. And so, when I moved and I wanted to study uh. political and social sciences, my dad. said, "Okay, I'm not going to pay for. it." And so, I said, "Fine, I'm going to. work." So, I worked in in the Quick,

which is like the Belgian uh equivalent. of McDonald's. Mhm. Uh and I really. learned Well, first of all, I learned. the hard work because it's hard work, and I also I learned to appreciate. really people who don't have an. educational. uh degree because the people there are. people who work there for 20 30 years. Uh, and I've really learned there to. work with those kind of people, to. collaborate with them, but also to. inspire them because uh those people are. not necessarily inspired. Uh, they have. to do the same job every day. Right. And. so, I really uh learned also how to work.

in a team, how to inspire people, how to. say, "Come on, guys, let's let's do. this." Mhm. And you had to balance work. and classes, so you started ask your. friends for their lecture notes. I love. this story in the book. And that gave. you the idea for another business to. sell notes and exam questions to other. students. And where did this hustle, this this work ethic come from? Well, I. had to work 30 hours a week, so I. couldn't always go to the lessons, and I. saw that there were there were these. girls who really have, and boys who. really have very good notes of the of of.

the professor. So, I went to them and. said, "Okay, can I use the notes for. myself?" But also then I saw these notes. are really good quality, and I also had. friends who, well, didn't work, but were. in in a pub and the pub a lot. >> Yeah. And then I started like. commercializing the the the notes, but. also the exam questions. And it started. very small, but after like 3 4 years, I. had like all the universities and all. the different directions and selling uh. copies. So, You say you've always been inquisitive. by nature, but one of your favorite. questions has always been, "Why is that.

so? Why is that so?" Mhm. Talk more about. that. >> Yeah, I mean, I'm I'm a I'm very. curious. I'm I'm I'm very curious at why. things are what they are. And I I worked. in a bank as well, uh. where where basically, when I was. working in New York, I had to send money. back and forth between Belgium and the. US. And money was always took a long time to. hit to send money from Belgium to the. US. And I thought, "Why is that?" And. so, I went in the bank and talked with. the people in the banking and said, "What kind of system do you use to. actually transfer money? Why does it.

take so long, and why is it so. expensive? And they said to me, well, it's the financial system. Your money is. somewhere in the financial system. And I. thought, what's that? I mean, what why. how can money how can you not know as a. bank where the money is? >> Mhm. You're talking about Clear2Pay. >> Yes. And then I basically came up with. an idea, but it's it was more curious. I. wanted to figure out what how it worked. And because I saw, well, this is not. this is crazy to do it like this. And. so, it started not really as I I I saw a. problem, but it was more out of. curiosity that I saw the problem and I. came up with a solution and then created.

my company. So, this is what he did. He. founded the company Clear2Pay, which. revolutionized payment systems, built it. to be a global powerhouse, then sold it. about 10 years ago. And people told him. how lucky he was. And here's what I. think is so remarkable about you. Instead of just, you know, sitting back, you decided to find out if that luck was. really real or to see if you could do it. again. And what happened? Yeah, people. said to me, oh, you're lucky. And and I.

was lucky. And then I really realized. that I was lucky. But on the other hand, I thought, can you do this again? Can. you again build a company out of. Belgium, a technology company, into a. global player? And rather than doing. that as an entrepreneur, I said, let's. do it as a kind of private equity fund. So, I created an investment fund. And. through the investment fund, we invest. in technology companies in Europe. And. we help them very early stage by helping. those companies to become successful. And basically, with all the experience. and and the luck that I had in in. building my company, I try to help those.

companies to be as successful because I. believe that if you do things right, that you can actually. squeeze time and and and be more. successful by using your experience and. what you've learned. And one of the. reasons I, you know, as I said, I was. invited to speak at the Supernova. conference in Belgium earlier this year. And the host had written a book, and I. was just going to scan the book and. started reading it and then stayed up. all night reading it. And one of the. things that intrigued me about this book.

is that you share everything from how to. choose board members, cuz a lot of. people mess that up. >> Yeah. How to find investors, a lot of people. don't know how to do that. Creating a. pitch deck, the pitch deck is always too. much. Wow. Right down to how to make. sure employees are not stealing toilet. paper. True story? >> Yeah, true story. Somebody was stealing his toilet paper. >> Yeah, exactly. Somebody was in the. evening, well, basically if you went to.

the the morning in the building, there. was no toilet paper. And so, apparently. one of the the guys was were it was. having a small business on his own. So, what the the evening he stayed until. late, and then he took all the toilet. paper and start selling toilet paper. Oh. my goodness. That's pretty generous of you to. share all of this intel. What was your. What was your motivation? My my first motivation, I have two. children, Timon and Finn, they're 22 and. and 19. And my first was that they're. not really entrepreneurs, both of them. But my first was like, "Okay, if you.

ever want to become an entrepreneur, read the book of your dad." That that. was the intention of reading the book, and I wanted to. write a very practical book, because. there's a lot of management books and. and so on on on entrepreneurship. But I. really wanted to write a book where if. you start, I've made a lot of mistakes. that you can actually learn from my. mistakes and do things quicker or. better. And that's the reason why I. wrote it. But it's a it's very. practical, because if you read it, you. get you can you can immediately work. with it, and you can you get like good. information how to build a company. So, okay, let's talk about the biggest.

mistakes people often make. I think I. think people start with a vision with no. idea about how to execute. That's one of. the things I think is one of the biggest. problems. But I want to hear from you. Um. First mis- I biggest mistakes, I think. the team I for me the team is the most. important. And and you start with with. people that you say, "Okay, I I this is. a good guy, but it they're not the best. guys. And I think if you start a a. business and you have like business. partners, you really have to like choose. the right people that you can work with. and also. >> start with somebody that you don't think.

is that the best guy. No, I I wouldn't do that because. ultimately and also with the friends. because sometimes people start with. friends and I mean it can work, but it's. it's also difficult. And sometimes. people also start with people that they. they both engineers. They know each other from university. They're both engineers. It's always. better I think in my opinion to have. somebody with a different backgrounds. with another background like history or. or philosophy because it gives you like. other insights. So that that's definitely a mistake. Second mistake I think is is that they.

underestimate the the costs that it will. bring. They're always people are. optimistic. You're an entrepreneur. You're optimistic. And so you you make a. calculation how much money you need, but. in my I mean experience it's always. more. You always need more. And It's always at least 30% more. Yeah, well, that's that's more or less what I. think. And it also takes longer because. you're optimistic. You say, "Okay, I'm. going to have a first customer within. two quarters." And it turned out it's. four quarters. So. everything you do and you say, "Well, I'm going to have like my product is. going to be ready in the second. quarter." I always add two quarters.

because if you then look at the reality, it's more or less like this. So I always. add like two quarters in terms of when. it's going to be ready. >> Especially well, certainly in building a. house if you're doing anything with. contractors, building a home. Same. principle. >> don't do that, you just end up. frustrating. So I automatically do that. So you don't you don't go in with the. expecting Whatever they tell you, add a. third to a half. >> Yeah. Yeah. Whatever they tell you it's. going to be in terms of time, add a. third to a half more. >> Yeah. And sometimes it's even longer,

but at least you don't go in with the. well, I thought it was going to be I. thought it was going to be ready cuz it. never is. Correct. And companies go. bankrupt because of liquidity, because. of cash. And so when you add that and. you make your calculation, then you see, "Okay, I'll need more cash." But then if. you raise that cash or you get that cash. from the bank, then you know that you're. not going to get into trouble because. the reality is going to be 30% more and. 6 months later. Yes. So, you offer a. mathematical formula. This struck me, too. For what you call the power of the. extra mile. Yeah. And.

I told you when I was in Belgium doing. your conference that. I and my team embody this philosophy, even though I didn't know it was a. philosophy. In chapter 1, Jurgen writes, "Quote, there is no secret recipe or golden tip. to becoming a successful entrepreneur. There is, however, a neat mathematical. formula. In fact, it has never let me. down. I've even given it a name, the. power of the extra mile.

I often work on Saturday mornings from. 9:00 to 12:00. It's just 3 hours a week, but if you add up all those 3-hour. periods over the course of a year, you. end up with an additional 20 or so. working days, almost a full extra month. Imagine what you could achieve if you. had your own 13th month." You know, I. really bonded with Jurgen on his extra. mile philosophy. Yeah, it's a mathematical mathematical. formula. And my experience is that if. you're successful in life, the people.

who are successful just work harder than. the rest. And so, consequently, working. harder than the rest. is a basically that formula. I just love. that formula. It's fantastic because it allows other. people to see that going the extra mile. actually creates extra miles in the. future. You actually have extra time to. learn new habits, to learn new stuff, and that is like the real power because. it gives you the extra mile. It gives. you like an advantage because you work.

harder. And that's also what I've done. in my life. I've always tried to work. harder and learn new things by taking. more time and not watching television. too much or just spending time in stuff. stuff that I really like. >> Yeah. Yes, >> when we were speaking in Belgium, you. were asking me about, you know, work-life balance and I was saying one. of the things that's so remarkable about. my team, and particularly during the. years of the Oprah show, where we're. literally putting out a show every day, there was there there there was no. work-life balance. And I don't see how.

anybody who's going to be an. entrepreneur, starting something from. scratch, putting it out into the world, I don't know how you have work work. work-life work-life balance. Certainly in the beginning. >> agree. The first 5 years are really. tough and The 5 yes. >> Yeah. So I work-life balance for me is. is something you choose for, but if you. really want to be successful in life, I. think you really have to go for it and. really like spend a lot of time in it. and and so that's. >> And there is a certain certain time. period where there you're building. momentum and that momentum matters.

That's right. >> Yeah. And actually most of the. successful entrepreneurs and then. they're not going to admit it to you, but most of the successful entrepreneurs. that I know know, they just have worked. harder than the rest and there's almost. a direct correlation between hard work. and success. And it's it's you have. people who are lucky and so luck is. always a factor, but. >> But I think luck is preparation meeting. opportunity. So it's being prepared for. when the moment comes along. It's not. like, "Oh, luck." You know. >> Yeah. So, you know, you can have the.

opportunity, but if you weren't. prepared, then it doesn't happen. >> Yeah. Because we have you here, a couple of. our podcast listeners who are. entrepreneurs wanted your advice. Okay? So Shauna is joining us as a mom of four. from Concord, Massachusetts. Mom of four, that is already a huge. job. Says she left a stable income in. the finance industry to start a new. business. Shauna, what's your story? My hat's off to I take my sneakers, my. hat, my shirt off to you. Four children,

what are their ages? What are their. ages? Yes, so I have they're all under. the age of nine. So I have an. 8-year-old, a 5-year-old, an almost. 3-year-old, and a 1-year-old next week. And we are done. Oh my gosh. Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's wild, but wild but. great. Um. but no, I'm so I'm so grateful to be. here and to to tell you a little bit uh. about my story and and to ask this. question, but uh I left finance after 15. years and I loved leading teams and. working on strategies. Specifically,

that was on products and solutions for. women in wealth. But I always knew corporate life wasn't. my passion. Uh I had stayed for the. stability to support these four children. and uh the things that we had and and. wanted uh to do in our life, but I. always dreamed of something my of my own. and you know, like you, it started at. the age of 16. Um. but really I didn't get the passion and. the and the courage and the comfort to. do it until a pivotal moment 2 years ago. uh when my son reached the age six. It. was the same age that I was uh when I.

was sexually abused as a child. Um this. is going to be a little heavy and then. I'll get into the to the part, but I. think it's important. Um I knew that I. could not move forward in my life and as. a parent without bringing my abuser. accountable. And that happened and it. was a lot of work 29 years later. Uh the. story became front page news in our. town. It became public and it was really. uncomfortable. But what I will say is. that discomfort but that courage brought.

me to the point of saying. I can do very hard things and I can be. empowered to make this world a better. place by helping ensure that my children. are safe and other children are safe and. it's never too late to do what's right. So, what that brought me to was uh 2. years later in December, I left my. corporate job uh and took on my passion. of creating a small business that I hope. to scale. And this is Happy on Main. So,

went from Wall Street to Main Street. and really what this is and what I've. created is a brute retail experience. that what I think is creating. revolution. I want women to be able to. be empowered. I want community to come. together, and there's three revenue. drivers that come with that with. shopping, connecting, and celebrating. the little moments in life that really. make up our lives. So, why I kind of have with that long. story and and what that comes to is that. for me, asking for money or charging is.

more uncomfortable than telling you that. story of the abuse that I endured as a. child that affected me for so long. And I have a mission-driven business. within Happy on Main to ensure that. women are seen and empowered and brought. together to make the community better. But with that, I also want to ensure that I can drive. growth and scale and find other Main. Streets over time to bring this to. And. so, my question is, how do you ensure.

when you have a mission-driven business, how do you ensure that you keep that. mission but are also able to drive the. revenue and the scale required to to. grow? Yeah, I mean, I see. you're you're in finance, so so so your. background is finance, and I think it's. probably something you should use. I. mean, because you have you bring added. value in in in in in this world. And so, maybe you should focus a bit on like. trying to show what the added value is. and working out KPIs and and also.

achieving those KPIs because if you. achieve those KPIs and you have a happy. customer, that happy customer will. actually. be able potentially to pay a bit more, but also will will be a kind of guide. for you to go to other customers and. tell your story. And so, packaging your. story by focusing on the KPIs, showing. your added value, and then from that. added value, try to convince. other customers to come to your shop. I. think that's that's what what I would. do. I would also say in terms of you. mentioned financial stability. I think.

I wouldn't focus on financial stability. per se because I think if you really. focus on your added value and you have. your passion and you can actually show. that passion and tell your story to. people, then people will be willing to. pay for it and you will also ultimately. become successful and the money will. flow later on. Never mind it it will one. day it can be a bit later or so on, but. I would really focus on your added value. and making sure that people come that. they also understand the story that they. say, "Okay, I'm paying something, maybe. a bit more and.

well, there's a good gross margin on it, but on the other hand, the gross margin. is also because I'm actually supporting. something that's bigger than just purely. the business.". Yes. Yes, but that's really helpful. Thank. you. Well, I just want to say how brave. it was of you. Well, first of all, I, you know, done lots of stories and. had the opportunity to interview lot. many people over the years who for whom. their children became the breaking open.

point for them. You know, your children. are here. to help you rise to the best of yourself. as well as you being there. to help them and I I think that your son. reaching the same age you were when you. were abused that happens a lot that you. then see. you know, what happens? And I know this. probably happened for you, too. You see. how innocent you were. Mhm. You see how innocent you were. You. see what six looks like and how you.

didn't deserve it. You didn't deserve it. And how you deserved better. And how. somebody needed to stand up for you and. you couldn't stand up for yourself. And you're being able to do that, you. did that for your son, your daughters, their future children, the children in. your community because you and I both. know this. Anybody who has abused you. has abused somebody else. And if they. get the opportunity, they will abuse. somebody else's child. So, I cannot let.

this moment, I know we're discussing. business and entrepreneurial work, I. cannot let this moment pass without. saying how proud I am of you as a woman. as a woman who has endured abuse myself, but just as a woman looking at another. woman who had the courage. this many years later in life to do what. was necessary to put him behind bars and. that you were successful. So, if you. don't do another damn thing, you've. already done that. May I say.

you've already done that. And I don't. know who your buyer is, but you got some. cute things back there. I'm looking at. that little striped dress. I'm looking. at the denim dress. I mean, you're on. the right track. And I think you will be rewarded as as. as as we were just saying here that you. will be rewarded. You don't even have to. worry about the money thing now. You got. to get the added value right and you. already have the added value. You have. done the right thing. Mhm. Thank you. I'm so grateful to hear that. It was a. lot of work and to be on this and be. able to share my story and also be able.

to really learn from from both of you is. amazing and I'm really really grateful. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thanks. Happy on Main. Love it. Continued great success with. that. I love the name, too. I love the. name. So much is in a title. Thank you so much. You write that in. business and life. Never promise things. that you cannot make good. On page 40, Jurgen writes, quote, "Never. say things or promise things that you.

cannot make good. There will always be. someone smarter than you who will be. able to see through your bluff." End. quote. Okay, that's another bing bing. bing here from Jurgen. My advice to you, dear listener, is don't learn this. lesson the hard way. Be a person of your. word. Let's go back to Sauna's story. I think, you know, one of the problems women have. is a lot of women have problems asking. for money, for investment, for what they. know they need. So, what would you say.

is a remedy for that? Well, I I will demystify it. It not not. >> Demystify it. >> Yeah, it's not because it's a woman that. she should not be able to get money. I. mean, make sure that all the things that. you need in order to get money, make a. great business plan, tell a story. because Tell a story. raising capital is. obviously about the technicalities. It's. about the fact that you have to have a. business and a product and a market and. so on. But, you have to have a story. You have to. like to catch the imagination of the.

investor because an investor is also. human and so he wants to hear the story. And in my. position, I think if you tell a story as. as an entrepreneur, the chances that you. get money are far higher than if you. just. tell the bare facts. These are my. numbers and so on. And so, I I would say. this it's not because it's a woman who. tells the story, it doesn't matter. Just. make sure that. >> women have trouble asking for money, for. investment. But, sometimes they yeah. Well, it's difficult for a woman because there. not that many. woman entrepreneurs and there should be.

much more woman entrepreneurs. And. that's also some some of the things that. we do in our portfolio, we actually push. woman because woman always say, "Ah, maybe I cannot do it. I cannot do it.". And a guy is going to say, "I know 80%. what I'm going to do with anyway." A. woman is going to say, "I only know 80%. and not 100, I'm not going to do it.". And so, we have to sometimes push woman. because they can do it, but they they're. a bit more reserved because they think, "Ah, it's not going to work. Maybe not, maybe not." And so, giving that extra. push I think is important. Okay. Ashley.

lives in Virginia Beach and she was a. standout guest on Shark Tank. I'm. seeking $300,000 for 5% equity into my. business. Ashley, what happened? Hi. So much for the opportunity. My name is Ashley Jones as Ms. Winfrey. stated earlier. I'm the owner of Ton of. Melanin. We're an HBCU advocacy group. that specialize in licensed gear. Because of the traction that we've seen, we've been brought on to new retailers.

and we really have a lot of traction. within the HBCU world. HBCUs are. historically black colleges and. universities. The idea came from me attending Norfolk. State University and I didn't see. anything in my bookstore that. represented myself. I felt like. everything was made for my grandparents. I was like, I'm an African-American. young lady and nothing here, you know, really looks like that. But with that, I think my main question. to you, Mr. Ingles, is what are the top. three nuggets that you could give me on. expanding and going into new territory? What are What are the keys to, you know,

expanding your business to something. bigger and when do you know when to. expand to a new territory? Yeah, I would say if you Well, expanding. for me, you really have to look at your cash. position as well because sometimes you. want to expand and I think if you. expand, it costs cash because you need. to have like more stock and you have to. have like give like kind of payment. times to your customers. All of that is. actually something that that is really a. problem. if you don't manage it properly. And so,

what I do, for instance, to give you an. idea, is every Monday I look at my cash. position and I make a kind of graph of. it to actually see how my cash evolves. It's a simple tool, but it shows you is. my cash growing up or is it going down. because that's something you you make. mistakes against you do it too quickly. I also think if you expand, you probably. are going to hire quickly and you're. going to put quickly people in and you. might say, "Okay, I just need people. because I want to grow, grow, grow.". Be very careful at who you pick and make. sure that you pick the right people that.

are also in line with your philosophy as. an entrepreneur because if you choose. the wrong people who are not really. following your philosophy, that can also. be a problem. And thirdly, I would say. maybe the systems because you also are. growing, you want to grow. internationally, you have to have adapt. systems, financial systems, accounting, and so on. And there I think is also a. challenge because you might say, "Okay, what kind of system I'm going to quickly. take something that does it for me?" And. then that might work maybe for a year, but then two, three years later you'll. see that the system that you chose is.

not really very good enough for you for. your expansion, and you have to rebuild. that system again, and that costs money. and takes time. And so, that I think is. something that I would do, look at your. cash, look at the people you hire, and. look at your systems. Thank you so much. I I will really take this into to play. as we try to go into new territories. I. appreciate um you even answering that. question. I appreciate I appreciate you asking it. And you've been on Shark Tank, so I. mean, what was that experience like? It. was amazing. I think that we were. already we had traction within the HBCU.

world, but I believe that it helped. elevate our community um even more to. see it on national primetime. So, I felt. as though maybe I could help you know. with a narrative of you students. potentially going to these smaller. colleges as some people would, you know, say that they are. So, I think this is a. passion play for me. It's not about the. money. Um I really my heart is to. continue uh the works within the HBCU. community to make sure that they stay. open, and to make sure that it's, you. know, around for the next generation to. come. What's your bigger dream for your. business? Um my bigger dream is to launch into.

actual pro sports. Um I want to get uh I. want to do a create product for. different teams and things of that. nature so that um there's diversity on. all levels. We have a lot of different. NFL, NBA players who, you know, rock the. team paraphernalia, but I believe that. there aren't too many black retailers. that are actually having that has. licenses. So, I want I want to come in. and bring my own style and own and own. flavor into a really kind of small it's. a small when it comes to the brands that. are in there, but I want to come in and. make my mark on that territory. Well,

thank you, Ashley. Absolutely. Thank you. so much, Ashley. Thanks. Bye-bye. >> Thank you. Good luck with tones and. melanin. You say that there is a uh you believe. entrepreneurs are at their best after. their 40th. Why? There has been a study. uh being looking at, "Okay, what's the. best age to start?" And people. intuitively think, "Okay, it's 20 years. because you're young and you're dynamic. and so on." But in fact, it's 45. And. the reason why it's 45. >> Really? Yes, it's because if you're 45, you have a kind of network. You have. experience things. You know people. And.

I think in life, it's important what you. know, but it's much more important who. you know. And if you're 45, you have a. network. You have an accountant already. that you knew that you worked with. You. have a friend that is a sales guy. So, you can actually. >> Ashley is building on now. >> Yes. Yeah. So, you can actually do it. quicker. And in in life, in my opinion, it's obviously a good company does have. the product and you need to have money. and so on. But the best companies in the. world are the ones who can squeeze time. And squeeze time is something strange, but you can squeeze time by using. technology to improve on your processes.

Mhm. But also, you can squeeze time by. because you have somebody next to you. that has experience or you have a. network of people that you can go to and. do things faster. Jürgen writes on page 31, {quote}. "Passion is far and away the most. crucial characteristic. You have to have. the sacred fire within you. All good. entrepreneurs are passionate about their. product, their service, or their. company. They never tire of talking. about these things. And you can almost. see their eyes sparkle with enthusiasm.

as do it. If you don't have this. passion, there isn't really much point. in trying to become an entrepreneur. You. will never make it." {end quote} And oh. boy, that may sound harsh, but I agree. Passion is crucial. It's the thing that keeps you going when. it seems like nothing else is working. out. Passion is like the internal fuel that. you have to who go for it because being. an entrepreneur, it's there's never the. straight road up. It is always like.

problems, there's challenges, and so on. And then, if you don't have this. internal fire in you that wants to like. achieve things, Yes, that's why I think. it's important the the lessons learned. from from your book is because you lay. out for us. everybody has this this vision that it's. going to I have this idea and I'm going. to start this business, it's going to be. great. What you show us is that you're. going to have problems. Always. >> to have problems. >> Yes. Always. >> Ashley, you're going to have problems. And so, you walk in trying to. troubleshoot what those problems might.

be, instead of thinking that you're not. going to have the that you're going to. be the one person that starts and. launches and is not going to have those. problems. Yes. >> Yeah, you always as you said, I mean, there's. I've never had any company where there's. no problems. I mean, sometimes they come. up early, sometimes they're later in the. process, but you always have problems. And I think having a network around you, having people around you who've. experienced this is very important. In. your in his chapter titled "Why", he. writes, "Over the years, I developed a. highly effective solution to every.

question I was asked. I immediately. replied with a simple question in. return, 'Why are you asking me that?'. When I started doing it, a lot of people. didn't have a clear answer. They were. surprised and hadn't thought about the. reasons behind their question. But after a while, I gradually began to. achieve my objective, getting everyone. to think carefully and prepare the. ground before they came to me with a. query or problem." In quote. That is a great response. "Why are you. asking me that? What is your main intention?" That's.

what I always ask. What's your. intention? Because you have also started and run so. many companies, your teams come to you. with you get bombarded by so many. questions. Uh and your standard answer is usually, will you share with us what that is and. why it's so effective? >> Yeah, people come to me and say, "Oh, I. would like to have a new secretary." Or. I would like to buy a server, or this or. that." And I always ask, "Why?". And in the beginning, it's strange if. you just say, "Why?" They look at you. and they say, "Well, why?".

Uh because I said, "I know why.". And after a while, they knew that I was. going to say, "Why?" And so, they. started thinking. And so, they started. preparing stuff. And they said, "Okay, I. need to have an investment of two more. people because" and then they wrote a. whole business plan on it. And so, when. they came to me, they already started. thinking about why they wanted stuff. Yeah, that's the same thing I did, but I. call mine intention. Yours is the why, mine is the intention. Come to me with. the intention. and I can see if I can satisfy that. intention or align with that intention.

And then the it it improved a lot the. way that people were asking stuff. because they knew that, "Okay, if I'm. going to go to him, he's going to ask, 'Why?' and I will have to explain." So, I better prepare myself very good. And. and that really helped to improve on the. quality of the company. And you and I learned the same lesson, I. think, early on, and that is to sign. every check. And my thing is, sign every. check, I still do, and also show up for. all the financial meetings, whether you. know what they're talking about or not. You just need to know. Why do you think. that's so vital? Well, I do that every.

month I take from all the companies, I. look at all the invoices, and I just. check them with a glass of wine and go. through them. First of all, to let. people know that I'm doing that because. the fact that they know that I'm doing. it makes them like Right. >> behave in the proper way. They're not. going to buy expensive wines of $400 if. they're on the restaurant. I mean, stuff. like that. I still see all the invoices. Some of them make I have to I do the. same. I see I see them all. Yeah. Makes. me ill. But but I see them all. And then you. find mistakes from time to time. >> I have found mistakes. Have found.

mistakes. But I think if you don't, then. you're just sort of floating and you. don't have any idea of how things. operate, how things really run, what. things really cost, what it costs to be. you. Fully agree. Cuz there's a price to. be you. Yeah. And to run your business. Nobody else knows what that is and the. person who really should know is the. person who's in in charge. I remember you you you write this about. the 2008 financial crisis. You say I. remember telling my wife that it was. going to be tough, touch and go. And if.

we could pull through everything would. be all right, but if we went under we. would lose everything we had including. the company. I slept badly for months on. end and felt stressed out all the time. My hair was already graying before the. financial crisis. By the time it. finished I was completely gray. I think. a lot of people are feeling those same. feelings right now. What did you learn about preparing for. and managing crisis? Yeah, I mean in 2008 we we had banks as. as our customers and and they wouldn't. they wanted to pay the invoice but they.

said in the financial system we cannot. have any liquidity anymore. So we can't. pay the invoices and we had about I. think 6 million euro in in in cost for. salary. So we had to put all the money. back into the company just to to survive. and what I've learned there is that is. to expect the unexpected because you. always think okay things are going to. move like I think well they don't. And. secondly what I've learned is that you. have to almost have like 6 months of. where you have no revenue and you keep. all your costs and that amount is. something you have to have as a bare. minimum in your company. So that if. things really get bad that at least for.

6 months you can. turn around. You can do some. reorganization in your business. You can. deal with the problem. And if you don't. have that you don't have the liquidity. to do that then you get into trouble. And so people say well it's not it's. never going to happen. But I've seen I. experienced it all these years that. things happen that are like like a. crisis that you don't foresee. There's always something. >> Yes, like like what happened with the. war or what happens with the with with. diseases and so forth. So there's always. something that you cannot expect. So. expect the unexpected. Expected. Be.

prepared for it. Now you created the. annual gathering Supernova that you. invited me to. Thank you. And you. describe it as a place to shoot for the. moon. It's the largest event dedicated. to innovative ideas. And this year, there were over 200 speakers. I happen. to be one of them. So, I appreciate you. including me, but why why did you start. that? Shoot for the moon it says itself. I mean, people sometimes they they want. to set up something, but I think you. have to dream big. People don't. necessarily dream big enough. And you.

have to be realistic when you dream. It's not like something crazy, but I. think you have to like have the. aspiration or the inspiration to like. change something in the world and to. like do something really cool. And And I. I feel that sometimes people we talked. about tell a story. They sometimes come. in and they want to have money, but they. don't really like show what they what. they want what they they they they don't. show like what what's their their their. biggest dreams, what they want to. achieve, what's their North Star. And. And And I And I kind of like people to. think about entrepreneurship as a kind.

of North Star. I mean, think about where. do you want to go? What do you want to achieve in life? And. And. yes, shoot for the moon is like, okay, just just you have to be realistic, but. share your dream, share your passion, share your where you want to go. Well, I There's so much more in the book. that we didn't get to. I thought your. learnings about doing business in. different cultures was also so. interesting, too. What's important to. people from other countries, their. customs, how they negotiate. You've done.

business all around the world. And I'm. curious to know from your perspective, how would you describe. a well-lived life? What does a. well-lived life look like to you? For me personally, I think I like to. inspire people. And that's also what I really like. Inspire people to say, okay, go for it, but also give back, pay it forward, give. give something back to people cuz I've. I've also had a hard time and I've had. people who helped me. And I know how.

important it is to have people there. with you who can help you make your. dreams come true. And the nicest thing. for me is the fact that you have like an. idea in your head. and then being able to realize that idea. and one day see that what you thought. about and what people said to you you're. crazy it's never going to work it's. never going to never going to be. successful if you then push through and. you see that as a success. that I think is important and obviously. have fun while doing it but it's like if. you see a small rock and you've been. able in your life to push the rock a.

little bit even if it's only a tiny bit. in the right direction I think for me. that's that's what really inspires me to. do. Well I think the book itself is. inspiring and I thank you you're in for. flying all this way Thanks for having. me. uh from Belgium to be here in my tea. house. The book is called start grow. sell 50 tips for entrepreneurial. greatness. Hard copies are available via. Amazon. You can find the link on our. episodes resource page and thank you for.

sharing your wisdom. uh for not only business but also for. life. I think it applies to all of our. life. Thanks for having me and again I mean. it's like you said I mean the the the. book is it's not just a managerial. entrepreneurial book it's it's about. life lessons so It's a life lesson. I. love a good life lesson and I really. love 50 of them. Go well everybody. You can subscribe to the Oprah podcast. on YouTube and follow us on Spotify. Apple podcast or wherever you listen. I'll see you next week. Thanks.

everybody.