Your Car May Be Spying on You

from The New York Times I'm Sabrina. tavernes and this is the. [Music]. daily as modern cars become ever more. sophisticated pieces of Technology they. begun sharing information about their. drivers sometimes with unnerving. consequences today my colleague Kashmir. Hill explains what our cars now know and. what this means for our lives.

[Music]. it's Monday March. [Music]. 18th so cashmir you're a data and. Technology reporter and you usually come. on the show to tell us some very. frightening new way that technology is. going to affect our lives this time. though you're coming on the show to talk. about car.

why cars well like many Americans during. the pandemic I got a new car and I. hadn't had a car since 1999 when I was. in high school and cars have changed a. lot they've gotten much better they're. more sophisticated I mean they're. basically computers on Wheels but I know. that when you connect things to the. internet it has the ability to record. data about you watch you potentially spy. on you if you don't know what kind of.

data is being collected and sent out so. you're sitting in this new car looking. around thinking okay this stuff is. probably spying on me exactly and I. wondered what kind of data our cars. collecting now and where are they. sending it who's getting it I just. wanted to know who's tapping into these. cars okay over here yeah and this. reporting led me to a woman named. Christine my name is Christine Del Ogden. and I'm from bger City Louisiana.

Christina is a real estate agent in. Louisiana and for a while she also sold. medical supplies so her car or Mercedes. was really important to her work I had a. class c 300 and actually my car was. basically like my roving office and as a. rep in that capacity you have to live in. your car so it's pretty much like you're. home away from home Christina been. married for 10 years and her now late.

husband was a federal agent and abusive. I kind of started losing my Independence. I guess you could say and one night he. got violent with her and she decided to. leave him she got in her car and she. drove 5 hours away to where her daughter. lived she ended up filing a police. report against her husband for domestic. violence and she did not want to be in. contact but he's texting her he's. calling her and then he started sending.

her messages that indicate he knows. where she is in real. time and there were a lot of weird. incidents like this one particular. incident where she was on a work trip. and I'm sitting in a parking lot and she. was waiting for her colleague in her car. and all of a sudden he shows up and. backs up rolls his windows down and is. looking at me he suddenly shows up in. the parking lot wow and she had already. made sure that he couldn't track her.

phone and then she realizes oh my God. and it just hit me in that moment that. it has to be the car it has to be the. car that the only way it could be. happening is that he is tracking her. [Music]. car and then I started thinking about. well the only thing that has tied me to. this car is going to be that Mercedes. app so and her Mercedes was connected to. an app Mercedes offers called Mercedes.

me so I get on there and there's all. this information on there that says you. know you can open your car do it's one. of these connected car apps you can use. it to lock and unlock the vehicle maybe. turn it on remotely and you can also. find out the location of the car and so. that's what her husband was doing he was. tracking the location of the car and. thus seeing everywhere she went I had no. idea he was actually watching every move. I made that car was a red light you know.

shining that oh she's here oh she's. there and he's constantly checking you. know that app looking to see where I was. we verified. [Music]. that so what does she do once she has. this information so at this point she. already has a restraining order against. him so she lets the detective on her. case know hey he's tracking me and.

that's when we start calling Mercedes. and I explained to them she calls. Mercedes because she wants to get his. access to the car you know turned off. revoked I didn't know he was going to. use the Embrace system to track. everywhere I went and that's what he's. been doing is tracking everywhere I go. let me ask you a question let me ask. you she is running into problems because. he's the owner of the car did they say. that the vehicle could be in your name. or was it an agreement that vehicle.

stays in his name the title is in his. name and Christine told me it's a. decision that they made because he had. better credit but she is the one paying. for the car I've got it in my papers. that I get access to I have access to. the car I'm the only one that's ever. really paid a note on this. car and she actually had an order from. the judge that had awarded her ownership. of the car during divorce proceedings. she had this temporary restraining order. and so she's telling Mercedes look.

I I know he's technically the owner of. the car but this is my car a judge has. said this is my car I have a restraining. order against him he's not supposed to. be getting this access to me please turn. this off but he has violated several. protection orders because he stalks me. on this. car and it's really hard to do anything. okay and she calls repeatedly because I. know I can't be the only woman that this. happened. to and they can't help her crazy the.

person who owned the car had the right. to be connected to the vehicle and. Mercedes just didn't seem to have any. kind of protocol for what to do when. this happens that is really really. remarkable so what does she do so she. eventually ends up taking the Mercedes. to a mechanic and she pays $400 for him. to basically pull the device in the car. that provides internet connectivity so. she disconnects her car and it meant.

that she lost kind of navigation. services in the car she lost the ability. to call roadside assistance but she. didn't care she said I just don't want. him to be able to track. me it's pretty terrifying this story. cash and I have to say it's pretty. surprising to me that there wasn't a way. Mercedes could stop this what did. Mercedes say about this Mercedes said. they could not comment on an individual. customer but this is is not just.

Mercedes there have been other reports. of women this happened to with other car. brands with Tesla the detective in. Christine's case it actually had another. case just like this with Alexis and I. think what's really troubling here is. that cars are a Lifeline for these women. it's literally how they are getting away. from abusive. situations but because it's connected to. the internet it's another place where. they can be tracked.

and harassed and this is the Paradox of. connected cars they are no longer. private. spaces and what do we make about the. fact that these cars you know they have. all this technology that now as we're. seeing can be exploited but the car. manufacturers don't seem to have. anticipated that yeah I mean car. manufacturers have been making cars for. a long time but they just started making. these connected cars really just in the. last decade and car companies when they.

have thought about safety for example in. the past they're thinking about seat. belts they're not thinking about data. security right privacy and harassment. all of these things that happen when you. have humans combined with technology. these car companies are so new to this. and I don't think they've kind of worked. out the Kinks in the way that the. Googles and the Facebooks of the world. have to the extent that they have right. it's just not you know their thing yet.

right they have come into this. technology space this digital space. looking around and not practiced at like. how to treat data carefully and really. what to do with it at all exactly and so. these are new problems for car makers. but they're not new problems when it. comes to. [Music]. technology and this was a case of a bad. actor invading the privacy of a driver. but as I continued my reporting I.

discovered that car companies themselves. were invading the privacy of millions of. [Music]. drivers we'll be right. back.

so cashmir you said that these privacy. issues in cars actually go beyond. individuals exploiting technology that. in fact you discovered that car. companies themselves were invading. people's privacy tell me about that yeah. so for the story about how car apps were. being used by abusers I was spending a. lot of time on car forums places on the. internet where people talk about their. cars and their love of cars and issues. with cars on Reddit on kind of dedicated. discussion boards and I kept seeing the.

same story over and over again and it. was people whose insurance rates had. gone up and they would ask the insurance. agent why did my insurance go up 20% you. know 50% or why can't I get insurance. and the agent would tell them you need. to pull your Lexus Nexus. report so Lexus Nexus they're basically. a big data broker and Lexus Nexus has a. division called called Lexus Nexus Risk.

Solutions and historically it's kept. track of you know moving violations. speeding tickets any accidents you've. been in whether you were at fault or not. at fault and so these people go to Lexus. Nexus they ask for their files and when. it comes to them the files are hundreds. of pages. long and in them they are finding. information about every trip they have. taken in their cars over the previous 6.

months how far they drove when the trip. started when the trip ended how many. times they heartbreak heart accelerated. or sped wow and these people were. shocked and so they came to the online. Forum saying why is this happening does. anyone know why this is happening and. how do I turn this. [Music]. off okay so what's the answer how was it. happening so so you know we talked.

earlier that cars can collect this. really detailed data and that's what was. happening the cars were collecting this. data um this was happening to people who. drove cars made by General Motors. General Motors was getting this data and. then General Motors was giving it to. Lexus Nexus wow okay so the car company. itself was actually just handing it over. well I don't think they were just doing. it for free uh but yes they were sharing. and selling this data and it wasn't for.

everybody it wasn't everybody who drove. a GM car um that this was happening to. it was happening to a subset of people. who had knowingly or unknowingly in some. cases been enrolled in something called. smart driver and what's smart driver so. smart driver is a feature offered by GM. it's called OnStar smart driver and it's. supposed to be a program to help you be. a better driver and you can collect. digital badges for being a good driver.

like break genius and speed limit hero. and you get some feedback like take it. easy on the brakes you know don't speed. up so much make sure you're leaving room. in front of your car you're not going to. hit the person in front of you like. don't tailgate so it's a little bit like. one of those exercise apps like great. job you ran five miles nice breaking. there or on the contrary yeah it was. that gamification of real life right. like get a good score be a good driver. but what people who turn this on didn't. realize was that there was something. buried in the privacy policy that no one.

reads that said that they could share. that data with third parties and the. third parties that they were sharing it. with were Lexus Nexus and another data. broker that works with the insurance. industry called verisk so some kind of. vague fine print lets them turn this. driving game into a data harvesting. machine essentially yeah so when I. talked to GM the spokesperson said that. people could turn this on in the vehicle. app or or at the dealership when they.

bought the car so it seemed possible. that this was quietly being turned on at. the dealership by. salespeople and I found this company. manual that said that salespeople could. earn bonuses from GM by getting drivers. to enroll in OnStar connected services. including smart driver I mean there's. something kind of creepy about it right. like these people were driving around. they had no idea that every move they. made including when they break when they. turned how fast they approached a stop.

sign all of that was kind of being. watched it feels like a fundamental. violation of privacy in your own car one. of the drivers I talked to said it felt. like a betrayal like he had no idea this. information was getting collected and. that it would be shared in this way that. cost him financially like his insurance. went up and he said I'm a safe driver. I've never been in an accident I don't. even kind of understand how they're. judging me on this so it it was really. confusing to the people this was. happening to and how much were their.

rates actually going up like give me an. example so one Cadillac driver I talked. to in Palm Beach Florida said that he. actually got denied by seven auto. insurance companies and he wound up. paying double what he was paying before. for his auto insurance that is a huge. increase how typical was that do you. have a sense of that you know it's hard. to tell it was just a lot of posts on. these different forums and some people. said 20%. some people didn't know how much it.

affected their insurance but yeah it. seemed to range from I saw 20% I saw 50%. and I saw people who said their. insurance doubled and what was the scope. here in terms of companies I mean was. this just GM so I was only seeing people. really explicitly complaining about GM. cars i' had this experience of my. insurance went up I went to Lexus Nexus. I found my details but then when I. started looking into this I saw that. actually a lot of different automakers.

are starting to do a form of this and. some of the automakers said you know. this is about safety we're trying to. help people be better drivers often they. have like a driver score or driver. feedback or a road score in their app. and sometimes it's the data broker. that's actually giving you the score in. the app not your automaker okay so they. say it's for safety does that. explanation hold water so a version of. this has been going on for a long time. there's something called usage based. insurance. where you with your insurance company.

say okay I'll put a dongle in my car or. I'll put your app on my smartphone and. I'll let you monitor my driving and. those programs have actually been quite. successful like I talked to one expert. and he says that when people are. knowingly doing this being observed that. the impact on safety is enormous that. you know these people become better. drivers but that doesn't work if you. don't know that you're enrolled in this. program if you don't know that how you.

drive is going to impact your insurance. then you're not going to improve your. driving there's no there's no safety. benefit here at the same time there's. this question of what does this data. even mean what is what is hard breaking. what is hard acceleration how does it. reflect how risky a driver you are I was. actually thinking about this a couple. days ago because I was driving home late. at night and a herd of deer just. suddenly sprinted across the road and I. had to slam on the brakes and I saved my. car insurance company a bunch of money.

CU I didn't hit the deer and damag my. car but I wonder in the data do I look. like a terrible driver who was. tailgating somebody and then had to slam. on the brakes I mean back to your point. earlier in the show right these car. companies are kind of tech companies in. training right and and I imagine that. they will soon learn some of the lessons. that other tech companies have had to. learn which is surveilling your. customers collecting troves of data that. doesn't go unnoticed for long periods of. time I mean it will have a response.

people are not happy about this and I've. been watching those I'm still in those. online car forums and I see people. reacting to this story and they're. saying oh my God I just checked my app. and I'm signed up for this I can't. believe it they're saying I'm not going. to buy a GM car um I'm not going to buy. any of the cars that are mentioned in. this article but the thing is there's. there's lots of different automakers. that are doing this I talked to Senator. Ed Marky about this senator from. Massachusetts senator from Massachusetts.

he's been talking to car makers asking. them what data are you collecting about. people who are you sharing it with and. they had sent him some very evasive. answers but he said when I described to. him what was happening with GM he said. that sounds like a violation of the law. that protects consumers against unfair. and deceptive business practices and a. couple of days after my story came out. there was a class action lawsuit filed. against General ERS and Lexus Nexus in.

the southern district of Florida so this. is really a moving Target in terms of. you know in a way a new social problem I. mean you started digging into the. Privacy implications of these cars and. and you found pretty quickly two very. egregious examples of ways car drivers. privacy is being violated which kind of. makes me wonder you know what else is. going on with these cars that we don't. even know about yet right honestly this. is what I have been seeing in the last. decade or so that I've been reporting on.

privacy and data collection at first I. was writing about Facebook and Google. but now everything is Internet connected. it's not just cars so many of the. products we get your your TV your vacuum. sometimes your bed your toothbrush like. they want to put a Wi-Fi connection on. everything and it can be really. convenient it can give us information. remotely you know we can turn things on. and off our lights but once you have. this internet connection.

it means people can get at these devices. who previously couldn't and it means. that things that don't look like a. camera that don't look like a recording. device are they're watching you and. they're gathering information about you. and it's this big question of who's. getting it and how is it going to be. used cashmir thank you thanks for having. me on. [Music]. Sabrina.

[Music]. we'll be right. back here's what else you should know. today in a highly anticipated ruling a. judge overseeing the election. interference case against Donald Trump. and his allies in Georgia decided on. Friday that the Fulton County district. attorney fonny Willis could remain in. charge of the prosecution but only if.

her former romantic partner withdrew. from the case the ruling essentially. meant the case against Trump and his. allies in Georgia could proceed since. the judge could have removed her and her. entire office from the prosecution but. chose not to the decision revolved. around a defendant's claim that Willis. should be disqualified because her. romance with her office's lead lawyer. Nathan Wade had given her an. inappropriate Financial stake in. Prosecuting Trump within hours of the.

ruling Wade resigned from the case but. even as the judge spared Willis he. refused to fully vindicate her the. ruling described her decision to date. Wade and take multiple vacations with. him as quote a tremendous lapse in. judgment that had raised a significant. appearance of. impropriety and in Russia Vladimir Putin. garnered 88% of the vote in the.

presidential election held this weekend. according to Russian election. authorities his win was a foregone. conclusion as the Kremlin had blocked. any real competition in a quiet show of. opposition Russians formed long lines at. polling stations in several major cities. at noon on Sunday at the request of the. team of the now deceased opposition. leader Alex. navali if Putin serves to 2030 the end. of his new term he will have the longest.

tenure of any Russian leader since. Catherine the Great in the late. 1700s today's episode was produced by. Olivia Nat Alex Stern Diana win will. Reed and Ricky nety it was edited by. Devin Taylor contains original music by. Marian Lozano Pat mccusker and Rowan. Nimo and was engineered by Alyssa Moxley. AR theme music is by Jim brunberg and.

Ben Lanser of. [Music]. wonderly that's it for the daily I'm. Sabrina Tavern see you. [Music]. tomorrow.