Why Trump Voters Are Torn Over Minneapolis

From New York Times, I'm Michael. Barbaro. This is The Daily. >> [music]. >> The question of what to do about. undocumented immigrants has long bonded. President [music] Trump to his. supporters, so much so that an overwhelming majority. of them back his all-out crackdown over. the past year. But, then came the extraordinary events of. the past [music] few weeks in. Minneapolis, where federal agents killed.

two American citizens in the streets. Suddenly, >> [music]. >> two of the MAGA movement's biggest. priorities, fighting illegal immigration. and fighting [music] government. overreach, were colliding in the most. vivid way imaginable. Today, we speak with Trump voters about how. they're making [music] sense of that. clash, and how in some cases it's. fundamentally changing their view.

>> [music]. >> of the president. It's. >> [music]. >> Monday, February 9th. Hello. Hi, this is Caitlin calling from. The New York Times. How are you? Hi, my. name is Jessica Chung, and we met a. while ago around the Maricopa Republican.

office. Over the past few weeks, as. tensions in Minnesota ramped up, Daily. producers Caitlin O'Keefe and Jessica. Chung spoke with over a dozen people who. voted for Donald Trump in the last. election. I'm in Massachusetts. Oh, you. are. I'm in my garage, talking to you right now. I'm smoking a. cigar while we're having this. conversation. Nice. Wow. For many of. them, immigration had been a major. reason for that vote. I remember they painted the picture that.

there was a large caravan, that's what. they called it. >> A continuous flow of migrant caravans. coming up. That was my impression is. that people were coming over in droves. And it looked like there was. 10, 20, 30,000 people or more. And then. they were like, oh yeah, you know, there's all these Chinese people coming. through the border. Like it was just. like random things you would hear and. you're like, wait, what? What is going. on? And from the moment Trump was sworn in. for a second term, they were impressed.

with just how quickly and decisively he. [music] took action to close the border. Oh, I think he did a fantastic job with. it. This is absolutely extraordinary. And he. just used existing laws. He said, okay, the border's closed. We went from being invaded on a daily. basis. to borders where law and order. prevailed. We keep hearing people talk. about how the immigration system's. broken. Well, the immigration laws are. broken. Yet in fact, we discovered that. was not true. >> It's not broken, it's just not enforced.

[music]. >> We just simply need to enforce them. What a novel concept. Once they closed the border, then the. next step was to get people out that. came in illegally. In practice, that meant deploying. thousands of federal agents into the. streets of American cities. It meant huge protests [music]. against ICE and Border Patrol. The National Guard going into. neighborhoods, detentions [music] at courthouses,

and federal agents [music] showing up at. workplaces, at stores, and near schools. It's still really scary to see our. friends and teachers. get um. tear gassed. Were you at the school where At that. point, some of Trump's voters began to. rethink [music] their support for the. president's plan. They're grabbing kids or they're. grabbing US citizens, >> [music]. >> detaining them, and putting them in the.

back of the van, and not giving them. reasonable suspicion as to why they're. being taken away. I did not know that. things like that would happen people. that are doing this the legal way, that. are going to the immigration office to. take care of a lapse of paperwork or the. next step in their process to become a. citizen. This is wrong. The way they're going about this is. inhumane. And I don't support it. I was like, I want to go and step up and do what I.

can and protest and be with my fellow. humanity. And then, an ICE agent shot and killed a. US citizen. The most recent situation. that happened with Renee Good was an. unbelievable. eye-opener. to what was going on and how this. administration was going to handle. things moving forward. That was a kind. of wake-up call for people like Chris. Stinnett in Lexington, Kentucky and. Carter Brown in Atlanta, Georgia. I told.

someone close to me that like that could. have been any of us, and her reply back. to me was, "Well, I'd hope you'd have. more sense than to ever be at somewhere. like that." They even started to wonder, could that have been me or a member of. my family? At first, I didn't know her. race. It it broke me, and then to find. out that she was white afterwards. It. scared me even more. Did your wife also feel similarly? Oh, 100%. She's been very upset. She's 37.

And so, that resonates with her a little. bit because Renee Good was 37. >> Mhm. >> And she's also a mom. They had believed that Trump's. enforcement actions would focus on the. worst of the worst, people who had a. record of committing violent crimes. This wasn't that. Both Carter and Chris, who supported. Donald Trump in the last three. presidential elections, now say that. they regret their vote. People hate that I use the word. bamboozled, but that's the best way that.

I can describe how I feel. On the outside looking in, you know, you're like, it was an open book test. Everything was right there. >> [music]. >> The community that I just left, many of them have don't tread on me. flags flying. [music] But, you know what. their reply back to what happened with. Renee is, just comply. So, what is it? Don't tread on me or. just comply? If we remove everybody,

how many more people will die along the. way? >> [music]. [music]. >> But, of course, not everyone with. misgivings regrets their vote for Trump. For some of them, it's more complicated. Caitlin O'Keefe reached one [music] such. voter in Minnesota. Can I just have you introduce yourself? Yeah, I am Wilk Wilkinson.

A couple weeks ago, I called Wilk. Wilkinson. He's 50 years old, and he. lives about 40 miles outside of. Minneapolis, near Clearwater. I grew up. working in restaurants, working. construction, truck driving, very kind of a blue collar atmosphere. He says the populist message of the. right resonated with him. I I voted for. Donald Trump in 2016, and 2020, and. 2024. Now, he works for a nonprofit that.

aims to bridge political divides. I. wanted to understand how he was thinking. about the battle over immigration. enforcement going on in his home state. I agree fully with the idea that we have. far too many people in this country who. came here illegally and have not done. things the right way and we we are a. nation of laws and those laws have to be. upheld but there is also a right way to. do things and a wrong way. When the news. broke on January 24th the federal agents.

had killed a man in Minneapolis named. Alex Pretty. Will Quint looking for the video. You know when I initially saw the first. video and then I heard the narrative. coming out of Secretary of Homeland. Security Kristi Noem I do want to. address the tragic situation that we saw. in Minneapolis today that unfolded on. the streets. It occurred with DHS law. enforcement as they carried out their. lawful duties to keep Americans safe in. the I heard her say what she said. This.

individual went and impeded their law. enforcement operations attacked those. officers had a weapon on him and. multiple dozens of rounds of ammunition. wishing to inflict harm on these. officers coming brandishing like that. and impeding their work that they were. doing. >> [music]. >> The first thing that I was looking for. was any way that it could be considered. you know brandishing a firearm. >> [music]. >> because that was the immediate narrative. that came out. I'm like I've got to see.

if I'm missing something. Is there something happening here that I. am not seeing? >> [music]. >> I watched every single video that I. think is online. I watched it several. times. I. dropped it into my software slowed it. down sped it up trying to. >> [music]. >> make it all make sense and. so immediately that it was an outright. fabrication on the part of Kristi Noem. unfortunately and. and I'm like this is awful. awful And I. was so disappointed. I got to be honest.

cuz I was a huge Kristi Noem fan when. she was the governor of South Dakota. Uh but then I think what was more. disappointing was. they stuck to it and then it instantly. became tribalized. People went to their. side, went to their silos, and started. excusing things that they would never, ever, ever otherwise excuse was the. biggest heartbreak for me personally. [music]. Another thing that concerned Wilk was. the Trump administration coming out.

after the shooting saying that it was. unlawful for Preddy to bring a gun to a. protest. As Christie said, you cannot. bring a firearm loaded with multiple. magazines to any sort of protest that. you want. It's that simple. You don't. have that right to break the law. I. mean, I will say this, Kaylan. I'm a. concealed carrier, you know, I'm a. Second Amendment absolutist. I, you. know, I've been around guns literally my. whole life. And was he allowed to carry. a gun where he was?

By law? Yes, he was. Kash Patel, the FBI director, was. clearly wrong about stating what he. stated. Kristi Noem was clearly wrong. about stating what she stated. The fact. that they play so fast and loose with. making statements like that when they. were clearly wrong says yes, the Second. Amendment is in danger. of being violated by this. administration. Now, was it smart that. Alex Preddy was armed while he was doing.

what he was doing? No, not at all. It. was a very, very, very poor life choice. that certainly contributed. to him getting killed. There are no. question about that. Does what happened to Preddy, does that. video change in any way the way that you. think about the Trump administration and. its enforcement of immigration policies? I would say that the way that these. policies are being enforced or were, I. think Tom Homan actually introduces a. level of.

calm and consideration that wasn't there. before. But, the way that they were. being enforced was all wrong. Conservatives are supposed to be in my. opinion suspect of government force. And the government's sole role is to. protect the individual from undue force. and fraud. I was definitely seeing an. element of undue force being perpetrated. by the federal government, which I'm.

100% against. When they begin to use undue force on. the citizens of this country, it changes. the dynamic of that relationship, and. it's a very, very, very big deal. Mhm. And what were your views on mass. deportations before? Like the goal, and. you know, have they changed in the past. year, and also in the past week? So, my opinion of. of mass deportations and the idea that. we need to deport people who are in this.

country legally has not changed. Not. because of this event, not because of. what's happening in Minnesota. Just. because the way that something is being. implemented in my opinion is egregious, it's just. terribly. ineffective and incompetent does not. change the fact that I think that the. thing itself. is still the right thing to do. So, is it fair to say that President Trump. still has your support, but they need to.

do better? I would say that the Constitution has my. support. >> [music]. >> I mean, there are still some things that. that the Trump administration is doing. that I fully support. And the only thing that I can say in. terms of continuing to support this. administration is. if Kamala Harris had won the election, I. don't think anything that I wanted would. have been accomplished at this point.

And probably. even. >> [music]. >> made several things worse. So, there's that. I'm still at least this way getting. something, but we still have a really, really, really big problem with an. administration that doesn't seem to have. a lot of regard for the First Amendment, the Second Amendment, the Fourth. Amendment, and probably several others. Let's be honest. It's It's problematic.

Recent polling shows that about 30% of. Republicans think immigration. enforcement tactics have gone too far. But the vast majority say it's either on. track or needs to go even further. Looking at how the Trump administration. is currently pursuing mass deportations, is there anything you would do. differently? As far as the Trump. administration goes, no, not really. >> [music]. >> He's doing all the things that he.

promised while he was running. He's. doing what I hired him to do. I think. that's exactly what I voted for. So, to sit back and complain that he's. doing those things now is kind of. stupid, if you ask me. If you voted for. him, you need to be supporting him all. the way. >> [music]. >> My problem isn't with the deportations. My problem is that these so-called. protesters are instigating, like they. want stuff like this to happen. It's one thing to stand on the street.

and make your voice heard. It's another. thing to [music] get in the middle of. those guys doing their job and stand in. their way. You show up with a weapon, I'm sorry, they're going to use force. I. know this sounds very harsh, but you. play stupid [music] games, you win. stupid prizes. >> you make stupid choices, you get stupid. consequences. [music]. I still support the deportation policy. Illegal immigration is wrong, no matter. how you look at it. People have to leave.

the country. You know, whatever they say. we're going to get rid of the illegals. and we're going to close the border, nobody ever says exactly what that's. going to look like. Or let's say making barbecue, for. instance. I don't know, do you like. barbecue, Carl? Oh, yeah. Okay. You may not like watching how it's made. So, that's my point. >> Nice, that it could be ugly. It could be. ugly. After the break, we hear from one of. those Trump voters who thinks that the.

president's deportation effort. >> [music]. >> should go even further. And why for this. voter, that feeling runs so deeply. [music]. We're right back. Can you tell me a little bit about.

yourself? Your name, where you live, what you do. My name is John. Um 53 years old. I'm a mason. I live in Massachusetts. I've been in. in the construction industry my whole. life. And I have their own a very small. company. Um I have a wife, two kids, and. um. that's me in a nutshell. I first. connected with John Polem about 3 weeks. ago. He lives in Bolton, a rural town in. Central Massachusetts. Is there a. political party that you have.

historically identified with? Um initially, it would have been the. Democratic Party when I was in high. school and I'll probably a few years. after. And then, I generally kind of turned. conservative. And I voted for Trump. in 2024. Uh-huh. And did you vote for him in '16? You. know, have you always felt like he's a. politician that you've believed in? So, in 2016, 2020, and 2024,

I believe I was given the option, and. excuse my French, I was given the option. to eat or drink piss. And in all. three cases, I drank piss. Mhm. So, there's your answer. And I In all three. cases, I voted for Trump. So, that's how much passion I have for. the man. Mhm. What were the most important issues to. you when you cast your ballot in 2024?

Well, immigration was a major issue, but. that has been an issue my whole entire. life. Can I ask why? Uh because of what I do. To be kind of simple, I move mass with. my body. I'm a laborer at the very root. of what I do. I. move things. I pick things up, I put. things down. [clears throat]. And that kind of work. has been. compromised by illegal immigration, greatly.

I got into construction. purely as an accident. I was sort of a juvenile delinquent a. bit. And my cousin said, "Work for me in. Nantucket for a landscape construction. company." And I went down there and I. worked as a laborer. >> [music]. >> And then as I did it, I, you know, I. became a pretty good laborer. Later, I worked for other companies and. I was seeing. >> [music]. >> people getting hired and getting paid a. lot less than me.

And. when I inquired about it, my boss would. say, "Well, they're less expensive. I. don't have to pay workman's comp on. them. I don't have to pay general. liability insurance on them. If they get hurt, they'll go to the. emergency room. No sweat off my back. And. >> [music]. >> I was getting paid less and less because. I was competing against people. who were hired [music] because cost less. to hire them or employ them. And that bothered me.

And then when I became a mason and I. started building, I found that I was competing with. companies that did that practice and I I. couldn't hire an illegal. alien. I I just didn't seem right. It's. illegal, by the way. But people are getting away with it. and I'm competing against them. And you notice it by just simply seeing. the crews that are going out there. And. when you give a price to somebody to do. work, you're not even close to the lowest or.

the mid price. You're always the highest. price. [music] And. I'm never going to get a certain. percentage of jobs and then I can't. increase my rate because it's an unfair. marketplace. >> [music]. >> I like the idea of working for myself. and I could do the work and I was good. at it. But it's getting to the point I'm. getting older and it's harder to do, uh. especially now. I can't.

I can't hire a labor because I don't. feel. that I can give them an. a living wage. So it's just me doing the work, which is. it's beating me up quite a bit, but um. so I stay in shape and I keep going. Did you feel under Biden that that. problem was worse, the problem of. competition from immigrant labor? No, it's been steadily getting worse. What recently kind of narrowed down my.

thought process on that was what Trump. did at the border his second term. by immediately shutting it down. the border crossings. All the way back to when I started. working when. it was Bush Sr. was president, uh we had illegal immigration problems. It seems like every president. had an opportunity. to stop that flood of illegal immigrants. going over the border, and none of them,

Democrat or Republican, did anything about it. And the fact that. it could have been done so quickly, as. we have seen, is a little alarming to me. It makes me feel like I'm forgotten. as an American worker, as a working-class person. They talk about the working class in. this country. They talk about the. business owners in this country being. the backbone of the country, but. politicians don't believe that, or they. don't act on that.

Well, this brings me to the next. question that I wanted to ask you, which. is. how do you feel about what President. Trump has done on immigration so far, this first year of his second term? I'd like to say he's doing enough. I. don't think he is, but this country. seems to not be able to handle it. I don't think we have the stomach for. it, what needs to happen. ICE agents shouldn't be put in a. situation where they have to. fight citizens of the country.

to do a job that shouldn't have never. happened. And we shouldn't have had this. issue with illegal immigrants. Now we. do, it's very hard to stomach what we. need to do to take care of it. What do. you think needs to be done? Well, I think we need to do what he's. doing. I think we do need to remove all illegal. immigrants, no matter how long they've. been here. In fact, Mhm. I'm not. uncompassionate to the people. that are illegally here. They are. generally good people. And I think.

everyone can agree that they generally. aren't violent. But this is where the. compassion problem is, in my opinion. So, we have compassion for these people. who need work and they need to better. their lives, but. my compassion has to lie with the. American worker first. We should really think about our. immigration policy in general if. the people here can't find the American. dream. Mhm. I don't know if he's doing enough and I. fear that if he did more, accidents like.

we've seen has happened will happen, which is horrible, horrible. But we have to step back and say, why. did that happen? Why is there an ICE. agent in Minnesota? There shouldn't be. an ICE agent in Minnesota. We just shut. the border down. The ICE agent is in Minnesota because of. 40 years of illegal immigration. Mhm. Is there a point when you think it will. be enough? Like, what's the end goal. that you think is right?

I mean, ideally you want zero illegal. immigrants in your country. Is it achievable? I have. don't believe it's possible. I don't. know, though. And unfortunately, we're at the point. where when we fix this, it's going to. cost money. I mean, you're going to have. to pay more to get your lawn cut, your. roof done. And you should pay more. >> [music]. >> Because that's how much the job takes. And that's how much these people who do.

this job should make. They should make a. living. to earn that American dream. Just over a week after John and I spoke, [music] federal agents killed Alex. Preddy, the second US citizen in Minnesota in. less than a month. I called John back to see [music] if. this had shifted his views. I saw some of the video, but I didn't.

analyze it. I just know that probably. there were a couple faults there. I don't believe he should have been. shot. I believe probably the officer. that shot him. may not have known that the gun was. taken away from him. And may have heard. another officer yell gun. So, there's faults with the video not. kind of showing that, but I don't know.

if you can get the whole story out of. that video. I certainly didn't. I know that a person died and that's. wrong. And I know officers felt threatened and. and that's wrong. Mhm. However, what. bothered me most about the whole thing. is that. in 2025, there were. people that died by the hands of illegal. immigrants. I just looked it up quickly. and some of them were were pretty bad. And I put their names on the Google. and to see if I could find news stories. about them. And I particularly went to.

the New York Times. And there's no news on the first people. I put in. Not one news article. Yet on this man that got shot by the. Border Patrol, there's 18. I stopped counting at 18. But there was a boy. that got killed. by an illegal immigrant when he was. helping his mother or stopping her from. getting raped. Just 2025. No report. from the New York Times.

And it's just there's a moral kind of. compass there that I think has been. lost. So, that that that bothers me. like a a lot. Beyond the drumbeat of news coverage. around Alex Pretty's death, John told me he was also frustrated that. local law enforcement wasn't helping. federal immigration officials carry out. the deportations. That ideally they'd be working together. as a team. But despite these challenges, despite.

the death of two American citizens, despite the protests, John still wanted the Trump. administration to stay the course in. Minnesota. Just because the job. isn't working doesn't mean you stop. doing the job. I believe in people's civil rights and. their right to protest. When the protest stops a federal agent. from doing his job, that's when it stops. being protest. You know, the free speech. amendment is you can say anything you.

want, but you can't yell fire in a. packed movie theater. You can't take it to that extreme. You. can be on the sidelines. and protest. and the state and local government. should be there making sure the protest. is not getting involved. with the federal officers. And they can protest and they have every. right to and they should if they don't. feel this is right. They should protest. Absolutely. But they should not. get involved in the.

operations of federal agents going after. illegal immigrants. That was the course of action that was. mandated by the people of this country. Mhm. Is there a point at which the cost. becomes too much? The cost of pursuing. this goal of. deporting people in the country. illegally? One life should be too much.

But. the people who are getting hurt here are. people who are. getting themselves involved in a. action that is inherently. risky, violent, involves. weapons, involves. human moving other human beings who. don't want to be moved. If someone puts themselves in a. situation like that, they're going to. have issues. Just stay home.

Let the government do the job that your. previous government. got them into. It's not like Trump. brought these illegal immigrants into. these areas. just so we could kill American citizens. I mean, that's what it sounds like if. you read the news papers. It sounds like Trump started all this. and his border control started this. Well, if everyone just stayed home and let. them do their jobs, there would be no deaths. I wonder just what does the ideal. situation look like when you think about.

the immigration system you'd like to. live under in 10 years or 20 years? I guess what it would matter on the. state of. this country in terms of how it would. treat its lowest income earners. So, if we have the ability for our. our our citizens, you know, after high. school to get a job to make a good. income, buy a house, possibly, to raise a family,

then we should have an immigration. policy that's very. liberal. With vetting of all people from all. places. and have it equal to people of all. places. I'd like it to be a an actual melting. pot of people all around the world. So, that's where I see it in the future. Well, thank you for talking to me and. talking [music] to me a couple times. Thank you and uh hope you're doing well. as well. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.

We'll be right back. >> Here's what else you need today. [music]. The latest disclosure of documents. related to Jeffrey Epstein has led to. the resignation [music] of a top aide to. Britain's Prime Minister. On Sunday, Morgan McSweeney, >> [music]. >> the chief of staff to Prime Minister.

Keir Starmer, stepped down over his role. in the appointment of an Epstein friend. [music] as Britain's ambassador to the. United States. New emails show that the ambassador, Peter Mandelson, had a close. relationship with Epstein and even. shared sensitive [music] government. information with him. McSweeney said that he now regrets. recommending [music]. Mandelson for the ambassadorship. The latest Epstein disclosures will be. the subject of tomorrow's show. >> [music]. >> And days after the Washington Post laid.

off hundreds of journalists, >> [music]. >> its CEO and publisher, Will Lewis, has. resigned. Lewis, who was appointed [music] by Post. owner Jeff Bezos, failed to turn around. the Post's finances and had a strained. relationship with its newsroom. That relationship was further inflamed. [music]. by Lewis's decision not to speak to the. newsroom during the layoffs. Instead, [music] around the same time, he was spotted attending an event.

related to the Super Bowl in San. Francisco. [music]. >> [music]. >> Today's episode was produced by Caitlyn. Keefe, Jessica Chung, and Stella Tan. with help from Muzeady. It was edited by [music] Lisa Chow and. Liz O'Brien. Contains research help from. Susan Lee and original [music] music by. Dan Powell, Mary Lozano, Pat McCusker, and Alicia Betito. And was engineered by Chris [music].

Wood. Special thanks to Ruth Eglanek. >> [music]. >> That's it for the day. I'm Michael Barbaro. See you tomorrow.