Why Abortion Rights Won Even as Kamala Harris Lost

from The New York Times I'm Michael. baboro this is the. [Music]. daily last Tuesday voters across the. country approved measures to protect. abortion rights while rejecting the. presidential candidate who claimed to. Champion those same. rights today my colleague Kate cerie.

explains that Gap and what it tells us. about the New Politics of. [Music]. [Applause]. [Music]. abortion it's Tuesday November. [Music]. 12th Kate so much of the focus on. Election Day was quite natural.

on the race for president and I think as. a result a lot of us and here I'm guilty. myself didn't quite understand how much. abortion was on the ballot and literally. not in that spiritual way that we. sometimes talk about in political. reporting that something is on the. ballot no this was actually on the. ballot that's right so in 10 States and. pretty diverse States across the country. there were amendments on the ballot to. establish abortion rights in the state. constitution this was a record number of. ballot measures on abortion in seven of.

those 10 states those amendments won so. quick math that's a 70% Victory rate in. all of these states and has to be seen. as a very big win for abortion rights. absolutely and this is really the. biggest victory for abortion rights. groups since row was overturned two and. a half years ago okay and just explain. how these 10 measures ended up on so. many of these State ballots at the exact. same time you know between the time of.

row in 1973 and dos ballot measures were. actually something that anti-abortion. groups used to their advantage H so. there are 44 in that time period almost. 50 years and only four of them were put. forward by abortion rights groups huh so. basically ballot initiatives have been a. tool of anti-abortion forces absolutely. that's even true coming out of Dos the. decision where the Supreme Court. overturned roie Wade anti-abortion. groups know that under dos the question. of how you regulate abortion is going to.

go back to the States so they think. we're going to continue this Playbook. we're going to have all these abortion. ballot measures to ban abortion in the. states so the first place we see this is. in Kansas in August of 2022 which is 2. months after dos anti-abortion groups. have put a measure on the ballot saying. there is no right to abortion in the. state constitution MH and they think. they're going to sweep this they think. this is a you know a given it's going to. be a sleepy August election nobody's.

going to turn out except for their. voters and they'll win right and as you. said history is on their side when it. comes to ballot initiatives restricting. abortion that's right it turns out. abortion rights groups really rally. their supporters to work against this. ballot Amendment and it fails in. August so abortion rights groups look at. Kansas and think wow we got a ton of. support there maybe these ballot. measures can actually be a way of. establishing abortion rights and. guaranteeing abortion access in other.

states and so they begin to put measures. on the ballot in the midterms of 2022. and by the end of that year we see. really a a winning streak for the. abortion right side they've won six out. of six ballot measures the next year. they try for Ohio first real red State. they win Ohio so now going to this year. in the presidential contest abortion. rights groups are seven for. [Music]. seven and just to be very clear about. what it is we're talking about here.

that's happening in the seven states you. just mentioned increasingly after Kansas. and correct me if I'm wrong these are. efforts to put something in a state's. Constitution that protects abortion and. therefore means that if a republican. legislature in the state decides to try. to restrict it they can't a judge would. look at the Constitution and say you. just can't do that the voters in the. state have said this is a right. therefore they'd strike down any. legislative effort to ban abortion. that's right and most of these measures.

are establishing a right to abortion. until viability which is the time in. pregnancy when a fetus can survive. outside the uterus that's actually the. standard that was in roie Wade and most. of the states also say that after that. point the legislature can regulate. abortion but they can't prohibit women. from getting abortions if they need them. in a medical emergency so essentially. what all of these ballot measures are. doing is restoring row but in the state. constitution instead of having it in the. Federal Constitution.

fascinating so let's turn to the. mechanics of the 2024 ballot initiatives. and the plan to extend this abortion. rights winning streak to a much broader. set of states with the reality of course. that must have been in the back of. everyone's head that 2024 was different. because it's a presidential year right. it's the first presidential year post. jobs so there are two ways of looking at. this and those two ways do overlap MH. and the first is that abortion rights. groups are looking at all these states. where post jobs there are bans on.

abortion and thinking these ballot. measures can be a way of restoring. abortion access Democrats meanwhile are. looking at how abortion has galvanized. all these voters the lesson coming out. of the 2022 midterms was that the. candidates of abortion rights won you. know the Democrats headed off the red. wave in the House of. Representatives anti-abortion candidates. lost in a couple of states and they're. thinking okay we can use this issue to. power victories for our candidates who.

stand for abortion rights and Democrats. in particular this is really going to. Galvanize turnout right the thinking was. that even when Joe Biden was the nominee. and a relatively weak nominee Vis Trump. in the polls that abortion rights could. make the difference in a few key. Battleground States because it was going. to bring out voters who care about. abortion and those voters would see the. Democrat as the only logical candidate. to protect abortion rights given Trump's. role in rity roie Wade yeah and this.

wasn't some pie in the sky thing this. was a proven strategy so this was. something not only that Democrats. thought was going to work but that. Republicans thought was going to. work how do folks end up choosing the 10. states that they do where these ballot. amendments end up being so as abortion. rights groups and Democrats go into 2024. and the presidential race there are only. 17 states in the entire country that. allow citizens sponsored ballot measures. which means that people can sign a.

petition you know you gather petitions. outside your grocery store your hardware. store whatever and people put this. question directly before the voters and. of those 17 States 10 of them had. abortion bans so this was always going. to be a limited strategy got it so when. it comes to the 10 measures that are on. the ballots this year some of those are. blue states that are just trying to. enshrine a right to abortion that's. already in state law and that's New York. Colorado and. Maryland then you have red and purple. states where either abortion is already.

banned or the state legislature and the. governor are trying to ban abortion and. the goal of the ballot measure there is. either to overturn the ban or to hold a. ban off so those states are Montana. Missouri South Dakota Florida Nebraska. Nevada and Arizona and of course two of. the states that you just mentioned in. your red and purple list are. Battleground States Nevada and Arizona. so as everyone gears up to try to. protect abortion rights in these 10.

States in time for last Tuesday what. ends up being the Playbook deployed in. all of these states so the sponsors of. these ballot measures are seeing that. there's a shift in the way Americans are. thinking about abortion a lot of. Americans a lot of people I talked to. particularly men thought or think that. abortion is something that irresponsible. women use as birth control and that's. not necessarily true but that was sort. of the bias that was the real stigma. around abortion what's happening as you.

see all these states ban abortion is. people are seeing the very real. consequences of this and they're seeing. that women who have much-wanted. pregnancies can't get medical care when. they need it for as long as I can. remember I wanted to be a mom I'm lucky. to have my son but I wasn't lucky with. my second pregnancy there was a fetal. anomaly and to protect myself I needed. an abortion the abortion rights group. sponsoring these ballot measures really. take that idea of abortion as healthare. and put that at the center of their.

campaigns thinking of politicians. interfering denying my wife the care she. needs it's unforgivable Missouri's. abortion band goes too far you know the. ad that I think about a lot was one in. Florida where you have this couple and. the woman is saying due to the abortion. B I was being forced to carry the baby. from 23 weeks all the way to 37 weeks I. had to carry a pregnancy to 37 weeks. even though I knew and even though.

doctors told me this would not be a. healthy child having to watch your wife. be in pain and continue to tell her. to keep. going that everything's going to be okay. knowing it's not that was the hardest. thing and the ad ends with the woman. saying this band is torture this band is. torture right these ads end up feeling. quite striking.

nonpartisan or almost post-partisan. they're all about women's health yes and. polls are showing that these ads are. changing Minds that people who see them. are more inclined to support abortion. rights H you mentioned Kate that. Democrats end up seizing on these ballot. initiatives as well hoping that they're. going to boost turnout for them my. recollection is that they end up. adopting very similar messages to the. the sponsors of these bills right yeah.

so once kamla Harris becomes the nominee. she really makes this a centerpiece of. her campaign working people working. women have to travel to another state to. get on a plane sitting next to strangers. to go and get the health care she needs. you have her surrogates like JB pritzker. Americans don't want to be forced to. drive 100 miles to deliver a baby. because a Draconian abortion law shut.

down the Maternity Ward Gretchen Whitmer. Michelle Obama all coming out and. talking about this one woman spent 22. days in jail on murder charges after she. miscarried in her own. bathroom we are seeing doctors unsure if. they can treat ectopic pregnancies right. she spoke very explicitly about women. bleeding out on a hospital bed because. of some of these state bans on abortion.

yeah and that message from Michelle. Obama really closes out K Harris's. campaign talking about how you need to. vote for Democratic candidates because. this issue is life and death for many. women and on Election Day when we look. at the results of these ballot measures. it's an incredible success for the. abortion rights. [Music]. side in Arizona it wins by 62% in Nevada. by 64% Missouri becomes the first state. to overturn a ban on abortion and they.

get 52% of support in a very red State. yeah even one of those three states. where the ballot measure didn't succeed. which is Florida it still got a majority. of support it was 57% it was just that. Florida required 60% to pass so not just. wins for abortion rights in these seven. states but clear majorities yeah and I. think in some states it was even more. support for abortion rights than the. sponsors expected H it also helped. Democrats in some down ballot races for. Congress and state legislator but the.

Democrat who everyone thought it would. help the most did not benefit from this. and that was KLA. [Music]. Harris we'll be right back. [Music].

so Kate how much did these mostly. winning abortion Rights Amendments not. help K haris quantify that for us it's a. pretty huge gap and of course the votes. are still being counted but from what we. know now on Monday afternoon if you look. at Arizona for instance Battleground. State remember I just told you that 62%. voted for the abortion measure right 46%. voted for Harris that's an 8-point Gap.

Nevada it's even bigger abortion the. ballot measure gets 64% Harris gets 47.5. almost 17 points in Missouri which is a. red state where Harris was never. expected to win abortion rights gets 52%. Harris gets 40 wow then you look at. Florida where I think some Democrats. have begun to hope that abortion might. actually pull it out for. them the abortion ballot measure got 57%. support Harris got 43% wow so you're. talking about in a bunch of these cases.

doubl digigit gaps between those who. cared enough about abortion to vote to. enshrine it in their State's. Constitution and those willing to vote. for Harris and essentially what this. data you just cited reveals is that a. bunch of people were capable of holding. two thoughts in their heads at once and. splitting those two things up that's. right and you know this is something. that a lot of people had actually tried. to warn about that even in some of the.

earlier ballot measures like in. California in 2022 the ballot measures. were outperforming Democrats the ballot. measure in California got more votes. than the state's popular Governor Gavin. Nome who's a Democrat so this shouldn't. have been seen as a silver bullet. strategy but by the end people really. thought it was going to be that but I. think it's worth explaining why. Democrats especially thought that a vote. for abortion rights was quite logically. going going to be a vote for kamla.

Harris in this race and that's because. of the unique singular role that Trump. played in appointing the Supreme Court. that overturned row because as you just. told us Kate in the first half of this. conversation Democrats seemed to benefit. a lot from the issue of abortion in the. last election the 2022 midterms and. because KLA Harris was campaigning so. emphatically and explicitly at as the. candidate of abortion rights that's.

right and I think also if you think. about the way abortion has traditionally. been framed it's an issue of women's. rights so I think a lot of Democrats. thought it was reasonable to think all. these people coming out to support. abortion rights are also going to be. excited about the idea of electing the. country's first female president so just. walk us through in the kind of. post-mordem way that I'm sure Democrats. are the understanding of why so many. voters split their ballot one way to.

think about this is that Harris was. actually a victim of her own success and. the way she. changed how the country thought about. abortion just explain that because. that's a little bit of a complicated. idea if you're coming at this from the. perspective of wanting to increase. abortion access or guarantee abortion. access it was really smart to talk about. this as a matter of Health Care As a. matter of healthcare freedom and the. right to make your own decisions because. it really appeals to a Libertarian. spirit in this country and a sentiment.

that a lot of Independents and. Republicans have so you saw people. crossing traditional party lines to vote. for abortion. rights but those people who might now. see abortion rights as something they. want to support aren't necessarily going. to be on board for the rest of the. democratic agenda they're not. necessarily going to be people who you. know want student loan forgiveness for. example they're not necessarily going to. be the people who want to vote for the. country's first female president but of.

course the thing that also has to be. true here for those who are going to. split their tickets on this scale that. we're talking about is that these voters. have to not see Trump as a threat to. abortion rights right and Trump. effectively neutralized the issue for. himself because as much as he was saying. to anti-abortion groups I'm the guy who. finally got the court to overturn roie. Wade he was saying to people who support.

abortion rights you don't have to worry. about me I'm not going to impose a. national ban on abortion I just want to. give all this back to the. States and polls showed that people. believed him you know for instance in a. times poll two months before the. election 70% of trump voters said they. did not believe that he would sign a. national ban on abortion so in some. sense the way to look at this is. Harris's strategy was effective but so. was Trump's in the K what seems really.

significant about this election is that. it gave voters who cared about abortion. rights the ability to say so in their. vote without voting for the candidate. who claimed she was the champion of. abortion rights KLA Harris and that. makes me wonder are Democrats looking. back and asking themselves if putting. abortion on the ballot as its own issue. was a mistake that they could have done. it a different year and then asked.

people to vote on abortion by voting for. Harris I think that conversation is. surely happening but for abortion rights. groups the immediate issue is restoring. abortion access right and so they're. looking at that conversation and saying. don't be so cynical like if we're. talking about this as a matter of women. dying we're not going to wait another. year and let more women die we need to. fix this now issue over party absolutely.

and that's not to say that of course. these groups wanted KLA Harris to win. the White House but they're also. incredibly grateful to her you know her. Legacy becomes that she spoke about. abortion in a different way they would. say that she was a big reason that the. issue won the way she talked about. abortion and got the Democratic party. which had always like really hesitated. you know Joe Biden did not want to say. the word abortion right K Harris changed. all that and so her Legacy is this.

expansion of abortion rights this. protection of abortion rights in some. states and that's not nothing put a. different way abortion rights didn't. help kamla Harris win in 2024 but KLA. Harris helped abortion rights win in. 2024 that's certainly how abortion. rights groups see that it strikes me. Kate that for many Democrats and many. Democratic women there's going to be a. lot of dissonance in the results of this.

election because there is simultaneously. this huge electoral Win For What many. see as an essential woman's right an. abortion and a huge electoral defeat for. the woman candidate for president who. championed that. right and I think that dissonance is at. the heart of a lot of shock that many. women are feeling about this because for. so long feminism and abortion were. intertwined so it was easy for them to.

think the public is really moved on. abortion rights that means the public. supports women's. rights the reason that abortion rights. groups used to Center the phrase and the. idea of my body my choice was because. they really saw abortion as the right of. women to determine the course of their. own lives but in this election that. wasn't how we talked about abortion K. Harris and the supporters of these. ballot measures didn't talk about.

feminism and abortion they decoupled. those two things you know abortion is. about protecting women who want to be. mothers and you know making sure that a. husband doesn't need to worry about his. wife right you know giving him and her. doctor the ability to help her make this. decision so the path for abortion rights. is making it less and less of a feminist. idea you know it's making it more about. protecting women but in a paternal way.

and that's not the same as autonomy for. women right none of those campaign ads. and none of those campaign speeches. acknowledge the simple reality that a. woman in the United States might want to. have an abortion because she might not. want to have a. baby right that decoupling leaves. feminism in a really uncertain place it. really diminished the question of do we. trust women to determine the course of.

their own lives so when you look at last. Tuesday you can argue that the results. tell us that we've changed the way we. talk about abortion we've changed the. way we think about abortion but what we. haven't changed is the way we think. about and talk about. [Music]. women okay thank you very much thank you. Michael. [Music].

we'll be right. back here's what else you need to day. with two senior appointments President. elect Trump laid the groundwork for. carrying out the large scale deportation. of undocumented immigrants that his. campaign long promised according to the.

times Trump is expected to name Steven. Miller as his White House Deputy Chief. of Staff for policy and Tom homman as. his borders are during Trump's first. term both men promoted the zero. tolerance policy that led to the. separation of thousands of undocumented. immigrants from their children at the US. Mexico. border and this is the last time I will. stand here Arlington as. commanderin-chief.

it's been the greatest honor of my. life to lead you to serve you care for. you to defend you just as you defended. us generation after generation after. generation on Monday President Biden. observed his final Veterans Day as. president at Arlington National Cemetery. where he lay a wreath at the Tomb of the. Unknown. Soldier without mentioning Trump by name.

Biden offered a firm contrast with the. former president who according to AIDS. mocked veterans who were killed in. battle so for all the military families. for all those with the loved one still. missing her unaccounted for for all. Americans grieving the loss of a loved. one who wore the. uniform Jill and I want you to know we. see you we thank you and we'll never. stop working to meet our sacred.

obligation to you and your. [Music]. family today's episode was produced by. AA chv and Carlos prto it was edited by. MJ Davis Lyn contains original music by. aliciaa Pat mccusker and Dan Powell and. was engineered by by Chris Wood our.

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