When A.I. Comes to Town: The Backlash Over Data Centers

From the New York Times, I'm Natalie. Kitroeff. This is The Daily. >> [music]. [music]. >> Tech companies are racing to build. thousands of massive data centers to. power the AI revolution. And to find the. land they need, [music] they're. barreling into rural communities across. America. Their pitch is the data centers will. bring good jobs, [music] revenue, and a. foothold in a rapidly changing economy.

But not [music] everyone's buying it. Today, my colleague Karen Weise tells. the story of one county [music] pushing. back against Big Tech and what happens. when AI comes [music] to town. >> [music]. [music]. >> It's Monday, February 16th.

Karen, I'm so happy to have you back on. the show. So happy to be here with you. Okay, we've come to you because you. cover some of the biggest tech companies. in America. And what that's meant. recently is covering artificial. intelligence. And specifically, what. you've been focusing on is the. infrastructure that drives the AI. revolution, which they're all involved. in. And that's data centers. You've been. reporting on the conflicted and often.

complicated way that communities are. responding to these data centers. And. that's what we want to talk about today. But before we get there, just help us. understand this data center boom. What. does it actually look like? Yes, exactly. I mean, when Chat GPT first. came out, initially a lot of the. reporting was about chatbots, but very. quickly this major theme started. emerging every quarter when the. companies would report their earnings. And what you started seeing is more and.

more money being spent building data. centers all around the country and the. globe. And what's happening is the data. centers are getting bigger and there's. more of them. And so the scale is just. really hard to wrap your head around. Mhm. What do you mean by that? What are. we talking about here? Well, in the last year, just four. companies, Amazon, Google, Meta, and. Microsoft spent $400 billion. on capital expenditures. And most of. that is data centers. And just to put a. fine point on it, like $400 billion is.

giant. I mean, like we're talking GDP of. countries level money. Yes, exactly. And. it And it's actually become this. powerful economic force across the. country. You have people moving all over the. country to build these projects. Do you. have kind of almost every industry you. can imagine is getting pulled into this. You have speculators, you have. developers, utilities, energy generators. that come in together and push these.

projects in so many places because there. is such a big demand for the computing. power that lives in these buildings. right now. And we're at this moment. where despite all of this building and. all the speed, there's actually not. enough data centers available for the. demand that people have. So the. companies are racing to get them up as. quickly as they can. So tell me about that demand. Why is. there so much money going into data. centers? So it's for artificial intelligence. And.

this is both to train artificial. intelligence. These are the systems and. models that underpin the technology that. we use when you ask ChatGPT something or. there's a system behind the scenes at. your company doing some process that. someone used to do manually. And some of. it is to use artificial intelligence. because the way they power their ideas. is by running a lot of calculations at. once. And so you need bigger data. centers, more powerful chips, much more.

power to cool those chips, and the. largest AI data centers could use as. much power as a million American homes. Wow. [music] In the data center world, what people talk about is not the square. footage of a building like you might. think about for a commercial building. They talk about the power demands. because the power demands is what is. most important and really symbolizes the. true size of a project. >> [music]. >> And that power demand requires a lot of.

resources, I have to assume. Yes, so you. have a hundred different things. happening here. You need a lot of. buildings for the data centers. themselves. You need the power lines and. the substations to transmit the power to. them. And we're also seeing this kind of. boom in new generation of power because. electricity use was relatively flat for. quite a long time in this country, and. now we're seeing this big growth in. demand primarily because of data. centers. So now the tech companies are.

scouring the country for places to. build. They want big lots of land with. available power, with good transmission. lines, good connectivity, and ideally a. community that wants them. And now we. have communities all over the place. trying to figure out, is this what they. want? If so, what do they want to get. out of it? And do they have power to. support it or stop it? And it's it's. really led to this kind of ground-up. swell in so many places. It's hard to. actually keep track of the number of. places that are now having these debates.

in all these kind of wonky small. municipal spaces in like county. commission rooms and in utility. commissions because it drags up all of. these questions about what do we want? Our valuable resources, our space, our. power, our water. What do we want it to. be used for? Okay, I want to dig in on. these fights. I want to understand like. how they work at a really granular. level. You have visited many of these.

sites and I wonder if there's one that. you would pick that would help us kind. of get inside what this actually looks. like, how it plays out. Yeah, I would. look at St. Joseph County, Indiana. And. it had no data centers a couple of years. ago essentially. And then in the past. two or so years you've seen tens of. billions of dollars flow in there. And a. community that went from not much. response to kind of an overwhelming. tide shifting against these projects.

And so I really think it shows some of. these dynamics that we're seeing. repeated all over the country. All. right, what has happened there? It. sounds like this development has. happened really quickly. Yes, so St. Joseph County, it's in the. northern part of the state. South Bend. is the big city, but the rest of the. county is primarily agricultural. And. the regional economy has been looking. for new opportunities. It's kind of like. the upper Midwest towns that saw a lot.

of work bottom out. Studebaker was based. there and they lost all those automotive. jobs. And the county has been working to. attract industrial clients for a long. time. Now, flash forward to May 2023. and the utility comes to the county. economic development office with Amazon. And this is exactly what's happening. around the country is the utilities. found themselves in this business of. matching the customers, these tech. companies, with the lands they know of.

in their territory that are available. and would be well suited for this type. of project. And what do they see as the. benefits of an Amazon coming to town in. this way? Just sketch that out for me. The economic development office sees. this as a great project. It is enormous. It's $11 billion at least. And from that. they see a source of tax revenue. They. see it as a great jobs producer, particularly during construction, and. just a way of using their land and. resources to be part of this future.

economy that we all hear about, that. this technology is the future. And it turns out that this was this. flagship AI data center that Amazon was. building for one of the leading AI labs. called Anthropic. You may have heard of. their chatbot called Claude. >> Mhm. And they were building this data. center to act as one giant computer for. Anthropic to use to train its next. generation of models and eventually to. be able to use it to start deploying AI. services as well. And so for both sides.

this became a really kind of valuable. opportunity. They see it as a win-win. So huge project for Amazon, it sounds. like. What is the community feeling at. this point? Initially, not much. I mean. there was not a huge debate locally. I. believe only two people voted against it. in the county council because it just. wasn't a big deal. People didn't know. much about it. And so they got going and.

they built very quickly. I mean within a year they had, I believe. it was like a dozen buildings up. And. very quickly you end up with thousands. of workers on site every day. And that. is both a good and a bad. You have a lot. of money flowing through that. The. hotels are full and the occupancy tax. for hotels is flowing back to the. county. You have people locally getting. jobs. The apprenticeships programs have. grown. All of these benefits. But you. also end up with a lot of downsides.

There is legitimately terrible traffic. around there. There's safety concerns. about accidents. You know, there's just. a lot of commotion that comes with a. project this large and people start. wrapping their heads more around the. power use and the water use and those. are very sensitive issues. And at the same time, other data center. projects start popping up around the. county and the region more broadly. And. so Microsoft goes into contract on a. site in another part of the county. And.

then there's other rumors constantly. swirling when we were there, oh, we. heard this parcel might be a meta. project. There's Google doing something. There's just this constant crescendo of. new projects popping up and people are. just unnerved by it basically, particularly as they're living through. this. And then there comes this new project. last year, even bigger than the Amazon. project potentially, $13 billion. or 1,000 acres. But with this one,

there's a catch. They need a zoning. change to be able to build this big data. center and that means that it needs to. go before the community, before the. county council to decide, will they. approve this project or not? And that. means these elected officials now need. to listen to their community and decide, do they want more data centers or have. they had enough and are they going to. draw a line? >> [music].

>> We'll be right back. Karen, you just set up this big choice. facing St. Joseph County, whether to. green-light this new data center, this. new massive project or say no. So, how. does that play out? What actually. happens? So, this new project, it's not. clear who's behind it. It's an anonymous. LLC. There's only a handful of companies. in the world that would use as much. computing power, but no one knows who it.

is. And that anonymity really amplifies. the anxiety over the project. And the. project needs zoning approval from the. county to continue. And so, the. supporters of the DNA centers start. mounting their own campaign trying to. say, "Yes, some people don't want it, but there's kind of like a silent. majority that really wants this and. wants the tax dollars that we. desperately need." And eventually, there's a hearing in December. That's kind of the final yay or nay on.

this rezoning. >> Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, and. welcome. The regular meeting of the St. Joseph. County Council for Tuesday, December the. 9th, 2025 is now called to order. And it becomes kind of the capsule for. all of these arguments for and against. it. Creator God, we take a deep breath. We pray this evening for wisdom. And it's in South Bend. It's in the main. municipal building. It's sort of a. windowless room with a bunch of seats.

There's at least 100 people in the main. lobby, in addition to the crowd that is. out in the side lobby, in addition to. the crowd that's here in the main room. This is. amazing. There is total overflow capacity. They. have people signing on on Zoom. They. actually max out their Zoom capacity. watching packed. It's packed. It's. packed. Folks, I was saving this, but I'll say it now.

It's going to be very, very important. that we keep decorum tonight. because we have a very emotional topic. we're going to be discussing. And the. county council starts out by really. pleading for peace. We're we're going to. address a number of misinformation items. right off the bat. First up, our. representatives for the new project. And. they come forth and try to make their. case. As this project does not require. the amount of water that has been. previously discussed. They say they've.

addressed the water and energy concerns. that the community has been raising. You could not pick a a more perfect. location based on infrastructure and. electrical infrastructure than this. site. And that the project should be. approved. And with that, I will stop. talking for a while. And then comes the moment that people. have sort of been waiting for. We will open the public hearing on bill. number 42-25. [music]. Which is the public testimony, where.

people can voice their concern. Is there. anyone in the room who would like to. speak in favor of the bill? Please sign. in and state your name and address for. the record. You have 3 minutes. [music]. And they open it up to supporters of the. project. James Gardner, representative. of the International Union of Operating. Engineers and part of the state building. trades. Good evening. My name is Murray. Milam, the business manager for the. Labor's Local 645. >> Piontek, assistant business manager with. IBEW 153. Bob Byers, business manager. for Iron Workers Local 292 here in South. Bend, Indiana. Hello, my name is. Nicholas Klein. I'm a business.

representative of IUOE Local 150. I'm. here to speak in favor of the rezoning. on behalf of trades workers all over our. county. So the majority of the. supporters of the project are either. union workers or people who represent. union workers. And they're saying The. job site has helped me support my own. family with steady work and great. benefits. With the projects that are. going on currently, um we have over doubled the size of our. apprenticeship and we look to do the. same again if this gets rezoned and goes.

through. This has been a huge boon to. the people that live locally. I was. accepted to the Operating Engineers. Local 150 at 19 years old with no. student debt, making great money. This is only possible through the. economic developments like these. projects. Take a drive around Indiana. Towns that have had a factory close or. refuse new development projects become. ghost towns. >> [music]. >> Don't take it for granted. The improved. county economy happens because we have. said yes to new development. opportunities, not because we have. turned them down. And then there is.

another group of supporters, >> [music]. >> primarily business leaders and advocates. who are making a broader appeal. They're. basically saying we should adapt and be. part of this future. It's about planning. smartly, ensuring our land use aligns. with our future needs, >> [music]. >> and giving our community the tools to. thrive in a competitive economy. And. this is a technological necessity and we. have to ride with that. We have to go. with that. We can do this data center and we can. all win. Thank you. >> [music].

[music]. >> So you have these business leaders at. the county level kind of parroting what. the Silicon Valley folks have been. saying, that this is part of what's. happening in our economy and we just. need to get on board. And at the same. time, you have the union folks making a. very tangible argument saying that pitch. that the company and our local officials. made about the promise of these data.

centers, that's actually paying off for. us. Like this is a huge benefit for. those of us that are blue-collar. workers. These jobs are very good. They pay a lot. of money. I mean, I've talked to. electricians that make $200,000 a year. I mean, it's Yes. Yes, it is real money. And people are. moving there if they don't live there. already. The hotels are full. You have. RV parks. I mean, people are feeling. this and feeding into this economy. Is.

there anyone else online that would like. to speak in favor of this bill? Okay. But after about 25 minutes We'll. move on then. Is there anyone in the. room that would like to speak in. opposition to this bill? Please sign in, state your name and address for the. record. You have 3 minutes. They turned. to the opponents. >> [music]. >> What I want to say is a family 68 years. ago came here for the peacefulness, the. quiet, the small-town quality of life. >> And that's where you start hours upon.

hours of testimony of people talking. about why they don't want this project. The public has a right to know up front. who is vying for our land and tax. abatements. Some people talk about more. procedural concerns. Our children. deserve more than concrete and traffic. They deserve a place where they can. freely run, ride bikes down quiet roads, and gaze at a sky full of stars. And. other people talk about kind of quality. of life issues of what it's like living. through this construction. [music].

>> I was mowing the grass beside the road. when cars going opposite direction at. high speeds passed right beside me. Not. only did it scare the hell out of me, it. sprayed gravel all over me and all over. the mower. Other people talked about. environmental concerns. Data centers are. significant contributors to local air. pollution because of Yeah, wells are. going to dry up. >> Primarily, it's the [music] loss of the. open lands. And you also heard concerns. over the future of artificial. intelligence. I have done my research. and I know that technology is evolving.

and in the next few years the next. generation of data centers won't need as. much electricity or water or space. What. happens if these buildings aren't. necessary anymore? What do we do when. we're left with hundreds of big empty. shells? Will we be stuck with all these. empty buildings? And you also just saw a broader anxiety. that this [music] is a. future that we're not sure we want. >> Where stocks continue to rise while.

employment falls, allowing for the. owners to get richer at the expense of. the working class. This correlated precisely with the. creation of chat GPT. I don't really. think that human extinction is coming, but the fact that the people who know. this way, way better than any of us are. totally freaked out about it really. should give us pause. And So, it really. ran the concern from [music] the kind of. practical, local kind of ground-level. community stuff to these bigger picture.

what is this all even for? Why are we racing to support this? >> There's a reason they're coming here to. build this, guys. It's cuz they think. we're stupid. They think that no one. cares about us. They think that we're. desperate, and they think they're going. to get away with it. >> They don't trust the future that is. being presented to them. >> So, the only real question that you. should be asking yourselves is will you. once again believe the false promise. [music] of industry? Thank you for your time. And so, after.

all this testimony you get to the. [music] end. And with those comments, I. will take a motion. >> It's like 4:00 a.m. Woah. >> And yes, this ran all night. >> Oh my gosh. >> Motion to deny. They vote. It they did denial motion is. 7-2. 7-2 denial. And ultimately, they reject the project.

They had decided enough. >> [music]. >> Meaning the council essentially has said. we're done with this. So, this was from. the perspective of the community overall. a successful fight against this one data. center in St. Joseph County. Is that a pattern that you're seeing, Karen? I know you're looking at this. across the country. Are other places. coming together in this way and having. success from blocking these data.

centers? Yes. I mean, this is happening. You see communities reject projects, but. the amount of building is only going to. grow in the coming years. You know, the. companies all announce their investment. plans for this year, and it is way more. than last year. I mean, we're going to. blow past half a trillion dollars this. year. Wow. >> And so, the reality is the companies. need this to happen, and they are. signing more big deals. They are trying.

to go to multiple places at once. because they they have a real pressure. to get data centers built and powered. and operational. Okay, I want to talk. about that, but first, how are the tech. companies, if at all, responding to the. pushback? I mean, are they contending. with the concerns people have? Yes. I. mean, you're starting to see more. acknowledgement of these issues, and. some are subtle. Some is literally. branding. So, increasingly, you hear the.

tech companies talk about data centers. more as AI factories. >> Hm. Everyone likes a factory in that it. produces something useful in the. economy, and that is, of course, why. they are trying to pursue this. opportunity is they see it as a great. opportunity that it can make companies. and people more productive. It can, you. know, solve cancer and all of these. things. And so, they're trying to. elevate this industrial building, basically, and say it contributes to.

this future. You also see more. acknowledgements to what the community. might want. Like, Microsoft came out. with a patch saying that they wouldn't. ask for a property tax breaks. They said. that they would disclose water use in. different locations. Amazon, in a. different project in Indiana, made very. substantial upfront financial. commitments. I believe it was about a. hundred million dollars to this one town. that they're looking to put a new data.

center in. So, you're starting to see. ways that they're responding, and. they're also just activating. politically. I mean, it came out in this. hearing, people were saying they got. text messages, they got door-to-door. knockers, there were TV ads saying come. support these projects. So, there's a. sense that they're projecting of this is. the future, this is an inevitable. future, and you should be part of it. Mhm. And you can choose to opt out, but. if you opt out, you could be left. behind. You will not capture that tax.

revenue. You will not have these great. construction jobs that actually maybe. are harder to replace with AI. You know, that you are missing out on all these. opportunities that are going to happen, and that you can support, that you can. be the person that because this is in. your community, you know, we have better. doctors in rural areas, that you can. help solve cancer in a weird way because. that's what they're talking about of the. potential benefits for these systems. And so, they're making this sell that it. is both an economic benefit locally, but.

also you're part of a good. transformation that is happening, and. you don't want to miss out. Right. So, you have these companies kind of. explicitly raising the stakes for all of. the people that are now faced with a. decision of whether to let this happen. or not. And at the same time, you also. have the federal government really. doubling down on AI, too, and doing a. lot to turbocharge this AI revolution. And so, these communities are also contending.

with a White House and a president that. is very much behind this push. Absolutely. Yeah, the Trump. administration has been very supportive. of all this. They see it as a national. security imperative. It's obviously been. very important for maintaining economic. growth, and they have done things like. fast-track data centers on federal land. They want to speed up the creation of. new electricity sources and. interconnections and things like that. that you need for data centers. You've.

even seen some states start considering. ways to claw back power from local. governments over this and not wanting. things to get held up by these zoning. concerns or these mechanisms that people. can use to resist them. You know, I wonder how much of this you feel, Karen, is about people feeling as though. they don't have control in the middle of. this AI revolution. You know, the. companies are pitching this as. inevitable, get on the train or the. train's leaving the station without you.

The Trump administration is fully behind. it. And if you're just a regular person, you may feel like AI in general and data. centers in particular, all of this is kind of just being. imposed on you and you don't have a say. in it. I think that's right. You know, you you. do hear those anxieties over and over. again. But I also think that we're. seeing ways communities are recognizing. their own power and that they do have. leverage. I mean, the tech companies.

need these projects to happen. It is. critical for them. And so, it's a real. problem for them if these keep getting. shut down because there's only so many. places where you can go and build and do. this. And so, communities are realizing. that they do have some leverage. And it's not every community, but you do. see places where people will pull out of. projects, where they'll relocate, or get. concessions. And that is a kind of new.

dynamic because if you have good land. and you have power, you actually have. something extremely valuable right now. And so, people are learning their way. that locally they can take control. And. it's not through federal policy, it's. through these like tiny little. windowless rooms where you sit through. hours and hours of community hearings. saying what you want in your community. And that is how things are structured in. America, and there is local control over.

many of these issues, state control over. many of these issues, and people are. finding those pressure points. Democracy. [music] in action. There you go. Well, Karen, [music] thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Anytime. We'll be right back. Here's what else you need to know today. >> [music]. >> We are connected spiritually, and we are.

connected culturally. We want Europe to. be strong. We believe that Europe must. survive. On Friday, Secretary [music] of. State Marco Rubio addressed the Munich. Security Conference, where he emphasized. the shared history between the United. States and Europe. He also reiterated. the Trump administration's public. warnings that the West faces so-called. civilizational erasures. We opened our. doors to an unprecedented wave of mass. migration.

that threatens the cohesion of our. societies, the continuity of our culture, and the future. of our people. Rubio urged European nations to put. stricter limits on who [music] enters. their borders and to spend more on their. own defense, something President Trump. has long pushed for. But his diplomatic tone came as a relief. to many in the audience who had become. [music] used to a more confrontational. approach from the administration. Rubio lavished praise on Europe for its.

cultural gifts to [music] the world. It. was this continent that produced the. genius of Mozart and Beethoven, of Dante and Shakespeare, of. Michelangelo and Da Vinci. [music] From. the Renaissance masters of the Beatles. and the Rolling Stones to rock and roll. legends. And after stressing [music]. over and over again the deep ties. between the US and Europe, Our home may be in the Western. Hemisphere, but we will always be a. child [music] of Europe.

Rubio received a standing ovation from. the mostly European crowd. And it's important to recognize [music]. that the majority of the American people. find. >> [music]. >> this behavior. deeply troubling. Former President. Barack Obama indirectly addressed the. racist video that President [music]. Trump posted about him earlier this. month. The video depicted Obama and his wife, [music] former First Lady Michelle. Obama, as apes.

In an interview, podcaster Brian Tyler. Cohen asked Obama about how the public. discourse [music] had evolved and. mentioned the video as one example. There doesn't seem to be any shame about. this. among people who. used to [music] feel. >> [snorts]. >> like you had to have some sort of. decorum and and and. uh. a sense of propriety. >> [music]. >> and respect for the office. Obama. lamented [music] what he called a clown. show on social media and TV and said.

that respect for the dignity of public. office. >> [music]. >> had been lost. Today's episode [music] was produced by. Diana Winn and Astha Chaturvedi with. help from Michelle Monje, Anna [music]. Foley, and Mouge Zaidy. It was edited by Mark George and Rachel. Quester with help from Brendan. Klinkenberg. Contains music [music] by Pat McCusker, Diane Wong, and Rowan Nemaier Stowe and. was engineered [music] by Chris Wood.

That's it for The [music] Daily. I'm. Natalie Kitroeff. See you tomorrow. >> Hey.