What the Houthis Really Want

from New York Times I'm Michael baboro. this is the. [Music]. daily over the past few months attacks. by Hy militants on global trade and the. Western military which once seemed like. a dangerous Sideshow to the war in Gaza. have become a fullblown. crisis today my colleague golf bureau.

chief Vivien niron on what the houthis. really. [Music]. [Applause]. want it's Thursday January. [Music]. 18th there's a marked escalation of. tensions along one of the world's. busiest shipping routes who them. militants claimed responsibility for yet.

another attack on a container ship the. latest Target of Yemen's houthis. Norwegian tanker strand up struck by a. miss a US warship shot down 14 drones. fired by suspected houthi rebels in. Yemen the escalation of attacks have. encouraged a series of shipping. companies to announce they would suspend. their movements through the Red Sea my. United States official tell CNN the US. military has carried out strikes on. multiple houthi targets in Yemen this.

war could be escalating big time the. Pentagon confirms it has carried out. more strikes against the Yemen Bas. houthi Rebels third assault on the group. in recent days houthi leaders said this. aggression will not go unanswered. threatening to keep on attacking those. ships that are passing through the Red. Sea President Biden saying he will not. hesitate to act further if that. [Music]. continues.

Vivian over the past few weeks as. militants in Yemen have carried out this. really unusual military campaign against. commercial ships in the Red Sea and have. basically crippled this trade route and. triggered a very significant military. response from the US and its allies the. question I think all of us have had with. increasing urgency is what exactly has. motivated these militants the houthis to. do this what do they want and how do.

these attacks in the Red Sea serve that. cause well the Hui stated motivation has. from the start been all about you know. the Palestinians and and Raza and sort. of forcing Israel to end its Siege on. Raza they have for a very long time kind. of centered opposition to Israel and. hostility towards the United States and. the Palestinian cause in their narrative. and in their ideology and they've really. been kind of bringing that up they've. essentially been saying you know look at. what Israel is doing to the Palestinians.

no one is standing up for them none of. the other Arab governments have really. done anything you know they're not doing. an oil embargo they're not going to war. and that we essentially and they. represent themselves as you know the. yemeni government we are the only state. in the region that is doing anything. about this that is taking on Israel and. the United. States so the way that they're pushing. all of this messaging out to the world. is through their incredibly robust.

wartime propaganda they produce these. music videos and songs and poems you. know they're very active on social media. especially on X and Tik. Tok what exactly do these social media. messages that they're putting out say. they've released really catchy songs in. Arabic that kind of say things like oh. you know we're yemeni but our blood is. Palestinian.

and they have done things like put up. you know Twitter polls essentially. saying you know who are you on the side. of are you on the side of genocide in. America or are are you on the side of. you know the brave yemenese fighting. genocide and standing up for justice. essentially and that's a Twitter poll. that they put out in English wow kind of. just trying to sort of speak to a. different audience so that has become. again a very important tool for them so. what the. houthis say want and what's captured in.

these propaganda videos that you just. described is to use these attack to. pressure Israel and Israel's allies. primarily the us into ending Israel's. military operation and Gaza that's what. they claim this is all about yes that's. exactly what they say okay so that's. what the houthis want everyone to see as. their animating. cause is that based on your reporting. based on your long-term understanding of.

the houthis is it that straightforward. is that the reality of what is really. motivating them no I think their. behavior and their motivations are much. more complicated than that I mean the. houthis ultimately want relevance they. want Power they have a lot of domestic. aims uh and in so many ways the war in. Gaza has really been just this huge gift. from the sky for them it enables them to. achieve so many of their own names I I.

can't even describe to you how strange. it is as somebody who's covered the hois. for many years and they were this really. just little known group to see how. prominent they are and how much people. who really know almost nothing about. Yemen now talk about them and know who. they are all over the world well tell us. that story of who the houthis are where. they come from and how the operation. that they are now conducting that has. really kind of menaced the Red Sea and. much of the West and its economy how it.

achieves its real goals you know it's. funny I actually I went back into Times. past to see like if we'd written about. the early history of the houthis and we. had like we had almost nothing about. them before even the mid 2000s which was. interesting to me so essentially the. hois history is a movement dates back to. the 1990s uh they take their name from. their tribe which is this extended Clan. whose home territories and the mountains. of Northern Yemen near the border with. Saudi Arabia and they follow this subset. of Shia is and say that they're the.

descendants of the Prophet Muhammad so. when they began their movement they were. really sort of a cultural and religious. revivalist group that later became quite. political and they gained prominence. essentially as this tribally based. resistance movement to the yemeni. government at the time and they very. much portrayed themselves as fighting. against corruption fighting against. foreign influence and their rise to. prominence really coincided with the US. invasion of adoch in 2003 and they. really absorbed that Invasion which was.

incredibly unpopular you know throughout. the Middle East and among Arab countries. they sort of saw this as an incredibly. destabilizing military incursion into. their region that they did not support. right and the huies Really seized on. that and on sort of General rising. anti-americanism and Incorporated that. battling foreign influence really deep. into their ideology right and of course. the war in Iraq was about as clear a. case of a foreign power stepping into. their neighborhood as you could possibly.

imagine right yeah and and for them you. know they really saw us influence in. their own country as well because the. you know longtime yemeni ruler who they. were fighting against was this us Allied. autocrat and he had been in power for. more than 30 years very oppressive very. corrupt government and very unpopular. and they were for a long time fighting. against him so yen is already in this. really kind of destabilized moment. around 2010 and 2011 when the Arab.

Spring arrives all over the region there. are these sort of revolutions toppling. strong men right and one of the. strongman who gets toppled is Ali abdah. Salah the yemeni leader in this sort of. like fit of popular. anger now what happened over the next. couple of years was really chaotic and. eventually the houthis saw an. opportunity and in 2014 They seized. control of the yemeni capital of. s and they sort of installed themselves.

as the. [Music]. alternative so now that this clan from. the northern mountains of Yemen has. taken over the capital and the. institutions I would imagine of Yemen's. government what does the world make of. that well it's something that pretty. immediately made Saudi Arabia Yemen's. much larger neighbor to the north very. nervous and concerned H why the huthis.

are essentially a militia right they're. this kind of religiously inspired. militia and that alone was enough to. make Saudi Arabia nervous they have this. very long border with Yemen they did not. want a militia on the other side of the. Border but perhaps equally as important. to that is the fact that the houis had. become aligned with Iran which is Saudi. Arabia's Regional rival and Saudi Arabia. was very worried about the idea of this. Iran influenced militia potentially Iran. supported militia taking over this large. L chunk of its Southern border and what.

that would mean and the sense of being. sort of crunched in by Iran influenced. proxies from different sides so. basically in early 2015 Saudi Arabia. gets together a coalition of Arab. governments and this Saudi Le Coalition. starts a bombing campaign in. [Applause]. [Music]. Yemen a direct strike in broad. daylight it's graphic to show in full.

but the bodies being pulled out belong. to 3-month-old s and her 3-year-old. brother a bombing campaign that much of. the world eventually comes to see as. really intensive gruesome and lethal. right residents say saudy war planes. have dropped more than a hundred bombs. and civilian neighborhoods over the past. few. days Yemen was already one of the Arab. world's poorest countri IES and this war.

essentially pitched it into one of the. world's worst humanitarian crises United. Nations officials are warning that Yemen. faces famine on a scale the world has. not seen in decades they are talking of. millions of victims there's been a. tremendous loss of life there have been. chera outbreaks it's a great. humanitarian crisis many many people are. dying it's this incredibly brutal War. the UN Secretary General Banky moon has. appealed for Urgent action to stop Yemen. from descending into Anarchy Yemen is is. collapsing uh before our eyes we cannot.

stand by and watch and the US was. actually quite important to that war in. the beginning uh the Obama. Administration provided military support. and intelligence to the Saudi Le. Coalition refueling planes of course. many of the weapons that they were. dropping were American weapons so again. this kind of starts to fuel that sense. from the houis and from many yemenis. that they are you know being conspired. against by foreign. [Music].

powers and why Vivian does the United. States get involved in this battle much. of it seems to be because Saudi Arabia. was such an important and is such an. important us Ally and the yemeni. government at the time of course was. also us-backed so initially the US was. supportive of this goal of restoring the. legitimate yemeni government over time. the US support for the war really began. to fray and become quite controversial.

and you started to see a lot of. political pressure in Washington for the. US to pull back its support and sort of. fears that the US was implicated in that. destruction and so basically from around. 2018 and 2019 onwards the war loses its. international support and you know Saudi. Arabia and the Coalition members find. themselves sort of on the back foot and. they gradually start to sort of pull. back their involvement in the war got it. and where does this leave the.

this essentially leaves the houthis in. power it's really kind of incredible. that they started as this Underdog Force. this rag tag militia fighting in. flip-flops and you know by 2021 2022. they are essentially the dominant power. in Yemen and they're feeling quite. confident they're essentially feeling. like they won the war so how do we get. from this unlikely victory that the. houthis have over major Powers Saudi. Arabia the United States to campaign of. bombing and attacks in the Red Sea that.

would seem to. endanger all that the houthis gained in. that prolonged War so you have to really. remember that since they were founded. the houthis have been a resistance. movement they've been Rebels that's been. their entire identity and so a rebel. Force doesn't really naturally then lend. itself to becoming a government they are. now the powers that be in Yemen there's. nothing left for them to resist so. they're in this very uncomfortable POS. in a lot of ways as 2023 rolls around.

and people are looking at them to. provide basic Services they're looking. at them to provide electricity and water. they're looking at them to pay salaries. for civil servants who in many cases. have gone unpaid for years and that's. quite a lot of pressure on the hoies and. no doubt to rebuild the entire country. and they also do need to rebuild the. entire country which is really in Ruins. and all of that is quite expensive and. it's not really clear how they're going. to navigate their way out of that right. this is sort of the context that October.

7th rolls around in the huthis are in. this difficult position they're facing. this kind of prospect of transitioning. into a peacetime government which is. going to be very challenging and in that. context October 7th comes out of nowhere. and suddenly there's potentially an. answer to a lot of their problems well. just explain that how does Hamas. attacking Israel and Israel obviously. preparing a ferocious response how does. that solve all of the houthi problems.

you just outlined well it puts the. houthis at the center of this moment in. the region where there's just anger all. across the Arab world and the houthis. Really insert themselves into that and. they take it up as an opportunity to. really live out their narrative to. finally directly enter a war with Israel. you know which is their declared great. enemy right so once the hoies directly. enter this conflict they're shooting. missiles at Israel they're attacking. ships in the Red Sea they're popularity. at home skyrockets they find themselves.

in a situation where they can use this. to recruit more. [Music]. Fighters there are enormous rallies that. they're holding in the streets of s of. people coming out in solidarity with the. Palestinians you know protesting against. the Israel bombardment of. [Applause]. razza.

there're just these huge crowds of. people holding up their slogan holding. up images of the hoi leader and it's. really quite a galvanizing moment for. [Applause]. [Music]. them so ultimately this you're saying is. what the houthis really want this is. that complicated set of motivations. behind their decision to start hurling.

missiles into the Red Sea the houthis. may say that what they're doing is just. about defending the Palestinians and. trying to end Israel's war in Gaza but. it is multipronged and what the houthis. really want is a simpler way to win the. hearts and minds of their own people. than being the government of Yemen right. I mean the H these have pushed back. against that narrative a lot they're. arguing that they're not doing this for. popularity that it's not about domestic. you know and they say this is a true.

moral Crusade we fighting for justice. but the reality is that on the ground. they have benefited a lot in a lot of. different ways so it almost doesn't. matter to what extent they believe the. ideology that they're espousing on the. ground there has been a massive benefit. to them and all of that means that the. houthis would seem to have virtually no. motivation to stop doing what they're. doing battling the West in the Red Sea. not at all. there's really no reason for them to.

pull back and they're very comfortable. fighting and that's what they're doing. right now as soon as it stops IT. essentially leaves the houthis back in a. challenging position where they're going. to have to figure out how to govern. they're going to have to figure out how. to be in power and not how to be the. rebels mhm for the hoies it is going to. be much easier to keep fighting than it. would be for them to govern a country. that has been destroyed by Decades of. War.

[Music]. we'll be right. back Vivian as the houthis wage these. ongoing attacks it clearly puts the US. in a really complicated spot based on. everything you just said because at some. point the US has to respond to these. attacks on ships including us owned. ships and US military ships but the US.

has to understand that any retaliation. risks playing directly into the. complicated motivations you just. described so how does the US try to. navigate that right so for the first few. weeks of these attacks the US does. really appear to be trying to avoid. entering into this conflict directly. there does seem to be some degree of. recognition that there's a real risk of. escalation if they get involved and that. the hoies essentially could be.

legitimized by you know them attacking. the houthis right it's finally. recognizing the houthis as worthy of. attack so there's some resistance in the. beginning toward that there does seem to. be a consensus at some point within the. US establishment that they do need to do. something and they eventually make this. sort of statement with the UK and with. this Coalition essentially threatening. that if the attacks don't stop they're. going to respond and that statement does. seem to sort of lock them into action at. that point because the hoies have been. very clear that they're not going to.

stop that they absolutely have no. intention of stopping and in fact. they've declared at this point that they. would prefer a direct war with the. United States so once the US does decide. to retaliate and it does so in a very. forceful way hitting dozens of targets. inside Yemen that are controlled by the. houthis how does the US frame it well. the US is very careful to try to frame. this as having nothing to do with Israel. and the war in Gaza they're very.

concerned that essentially the hois are. going to be able to weaponize this just. to sort of deepen their narrative even. more and so they try to sort of frame it. as a coalition response to protect. economic interests to protect global. Shipping you know and really try to. emphasize the effect that the H the. attacks have had on shipping and trade. you know particularly because they're. passing through this incredibly. important part of the Red Sea that leads. to the sus Canal so when the US responds. what President Biden is saying is I'm.

not going to give you the propaganda. tool of saying that this conflict is. about what you the houthis say it's. about which is Israel and Hamas and Gaza. we are going to kind of strip all of. this of that language and that. symbolism yes that is what they say that. doesn't go over very well in the region. or in Yemen I mean we pretty immediately. were speaking to yemenis who were saying. you know even in territories that are. hostile towards the houthis were saying. that oh it looks like the US just wants.

to attack them because they're defending. the. Palestinians so immediately that us. effort to kind of parse this and frame. it is seen as futile throughout Yemen. yeah it definitely Falls flat in Yemen. and in the broader Middle East and there. is honestly such a high level of. anti-americanism across the region right. now that it's it's very easy for the. houthis to spread this narrative and to. gain popularity over it regardless of. how these attacks are being discussed or. framed do the US Coalition air strikes.

work at all are they doing what the. United States wants them to do which is. to weaken the houthi capacity to strike. ships in the Red Sea or in any way deter. the houthis from continuing to wage. these attacks they certainly do not. deter The houthis Who pretty immediately. have started to Stage attacks again and. have vowed that they're going to be. staging even bigger attacks and they've. said now that they see not only targets. tied to Israel as legitimate targets but.

any Targets tied to American or British. interests as legitimate targets for them. to hit so essentially they are now. widening the war they're saying that. this is a world war that we are excited. to enter into now and we're ready for it. excited to enter that's how they're. framing this yeah they are really. honestly with pretty open Delight I mean. there was a a post today on social media. from one of their politicians basically. saying and I'll quote him we're not. worried about this battle nor do we care. about it the missiles and planes that we.

were bombed with during the past 9 years. are the same ones that America has today. America was conducting this war against. us under cover and today we will. confront it directly it's a positive. thing because America is what brought. destruction Siege and poverty to our. country so instead of doing anything to. contain the houthi aggression the US. response as perhaps many. feared risks if not already is expand in. the threat of the houthis and any future.

attacks from the US which the US claims. it will undertake is going to do the. same it's going to make things worse. right there does seem to be a real risk. of further escalation at this moment. it's not clear how this is going to. quiet down well what are the options for. the us if armed conflict and retaliation. is proving to be so ineffective what is. basically the way out of a dynamic in. which responses from from the US and its. allies are feeding the houthi narrative.

and making the houthis more popular at. home and less likely to ever want to. stop doing this the US definitely. doesn't have a great option or menu of. responses in terms of how it's going to. address the houthi threat however one. argument that we're hearing pretty. consistently from Regional American. Allies like Qatar and Oman which is a. neighbor of Yemen and knows Yemen very. well has been that the only way to. address the threat posed by the hois is. to resolve the underlying conflict that.

is inflaming tensions across the region. and that they say is the war in aaza and. their argument essentially is that it is. the war in aaza that is spreading all of. these tensions that is causing all of. these different forms of escalation and. that is giving the houthis a pretext for. their attacks and if you can resolve. that underlying conflict if you can. reach a ceasefire and you can diffuse. that then you will ultimately diffuse. all of the other problems that that are. going on in the region right now my. guess is that the US rejects that logic.

because it might feel to them like a. reward for what the houthis are up to. you know we're going to call for a. ceasefire we're going to push for an end. to Israel's battle against Hamas just to. stop the houthis from attacking ships in. the Red. Sea right I mean there's certainly a. fear now in the region and beyond that. the hthis know that they have this power. and that they're not going to Simply. stop using it right they know now that. they can essentially you know hold.

global trade hostage by attacking ships. in the Red Sea and it's it's difficult. to imagine them never using that card. again if they know that they can play it. right and how should we think about that. Vivian I mean the reality that in a very. short time the houthis go from the clan. that they were to essentially the. governing power and Yemen to now a force. that is not just willing but able to. Menace all of Western Commerce in the.

Red Sea I mean it's really a remarkable. rise I mean the hoies were such an. underdog and I don't think any of us. imagine that we would be in this. position when somebody sitting in New. York even knows who they are right they. have just risen so quickly and they've. defeated so many enemies that were so. much more powerful than them that they. essentially see themselves as finally. you know in the Divine Right Path now. they see God is on their side you know. they they have no fear partly because of. that h I mean the hoies have been very. upfront that they are absolutely not.

afraid of getting dragged into a long. and extended war with the United States. and they've explicitly brought up you. know the precedents of Afghanistan and. Vietnam and threatened that you know. come on come and enter Yemen invade. Yemen we're ready for you and you have. no idea what is in for you essentially. they're this gorilla fighting force that. has managed to. withstand much more powerful entities. for years and years and that has put. them in this position where they really. feel feel that they have nothing to.

lose well Vivian thank you very much we. appreciate it thank. you on Wednesday the United States said. that it would designate the houthis as a. terrorist organization in its latest and. so far fruitless attempt to pressure the. group into ending its attacks in the Red. Sea the Biden administration had removed. the houthis from the US Terror list in. 2021 saying the decision would make it. easier for humanitarian Aid to reach the.

people of Yemen the latest designation. would among other things block the. houthi access to the Global Financial. system and further isolate the group. from Western. [Music]. institutions we'll be right. back. here's what else you need to know day on.

Wednesday the judge overseeing the trial. in which the writer egene Carol has. accused Donald Trump of defaming her. warned Trump that he could be thrown out. of the court if he continues making. comments that the jury can hear the. warning came after a lawyer for Carol. complained that Trump had been overheard. calling the trial a quote Witch Hunt and. a con.

job and the next two Republican. Presidential debates scheduled for. Thursday and Sunday night in New. Hampshire have been cancelled because. just one qualified candidate Florida. Governor Ronda santz has agreed to. appear Trump has refused to participate. in any primary debates and a few days. ago former South Carolina Governor Nikki. Haley said that she would refuse to. attend unless Trump did leaving Des. santis as the only candidate willing to.

debate today's episode was produced by. AA chv Eric krupy and Ricky nety it was. edited by MJ Davis ly contains original. music by Alicia ba Marian Lozano Pat. mccusker and Rowan nisto and was. engineered by Chris Wood our theme music. is by Jim runberg and Ben Lansford of. [Music].

wonderly that's it for the daily I'm. Michael. borro see you. [Music]. tomorrow.