What the End of Spirit Airlines Means for the Future of Flying

From The New York Times, >> [music]. >> I'm Rachel Abrams and this is The Daily. When Spirit Airlines shut down over. [music] the weekend, it brought an end. to a company that had revolutionized air. travel in the United States [music] with. an ultra low-cost approach. So, today I talked to my colleague Niraj. Chokshi about the so-called Spirit. effect on air travel, [music].

why it unraveled, and whether the. problems that doomed Spirit could spread. to other airlines. And my colleague Lindsey Garrison talks. to a Spirit [music] flight attendant. about what Spirit represented. >> [music]. >> It's Thursday, May 7th.

Hey Lindsey, this is Colleen. Yeah. Oh, hey Colleen. Nice to meet you. Hey, nice. to meet you as well. Thank you again for. your time. I'm really grateful and. >> Yeah, of course. >> I'm I'm really sorry that this is the. circumstance under which we're talking, but I really thank you again. Um could we just start by you just. telling me a little bit about you know, who you are and when you started working. for Spirit Airlines? Yeah. So, um.

my name is Colleen Burns and I am a. Spirit Airlines flight attendant. And I was um it sounds crazy to say. I. was Spirit Airlines flight attendant for. 10 years. I had actually just started my. 11th year with the company. Got it. Do. you remember your first day on the job? Yeah, I was so nervous and I just. remember that first crew. Like when I. got there, they were like so incredibly kind to me.

and they were like, "Oh my god, it's. your first flight? Like sometimes we it. happened more back in the day, um but we. used to pull pranks on each other when. you were a new flight attendant. And so, they had the pilots tell me that. something was wrong with the air in the. cabin and that I had to do an air test. and I needed to collect an air sample in. a trash bag and bring it into the. cockpit. >> [laughter]. >> And this one I was like, "I don't. remember learning about this at all.". And like, "Oh my gosh, I didn't retain. anything.".

So, I'm like walking through this cabin. on my very first flight operating as a. flight attendant with a giant white. trash bag above my head collecting air. I go into the cockpit and the pilots. both look at me and just start busting. out laughing. Busting out laughing. >> [laughter]. [music]. >> But, we used to do silly things like. that to one another. all the time and it's something that I. just don't I don't hear those stories. from other airlines.

There's just something really special. about being a Spirit flight attendant. Yeah, what what is it, do you think? Like, what is that thing? >> I. I think that. Spirit has been through so many like. changes and like revivals and you know, we went from being like the absolute. most hated airline to to be honest, where in the end like people loved us. And [music]. I think all of us went through that.

journey with Spirit and we all had so. much [music] pride in how far Spirit had. come. I mean, we're the underdog story. And I had no idea. [music]. None of you know, we we really all thought that Spirit was. going to. pull through. >> Neraj, welcome to The Daily. Hey, thank.

you. Thanks for having me. So, Neraj, as. you know, Spirit Airlines, they went. under over the weekend, and this comes. after the White House had tried to save. the airline. They did not save the. airline. And what was so interesting was that. this airline that had basically been a. punchline for years sparked so much. grief. There was this outpouring of. people talking about how sad they were. that it was going away. Our colleague. Lindsey Garrison talked to a flight. attendant who said how much the airline. meant to her and how much she saw that.

the airline meant to other people. And. so, I want to start this conversation. with you explaining to us why the death. of this airline has struck such a chord. with people. Yeah, I mean, Spirit Airlines was this. symbol of affordable travel in America. It allowed people to take trips that. they couldn't otherwise afford. For a. large segment of the population, it was. the only way for them to be able to fly. to places. And the end came really suddenly. They. decided late last week it was time to. wind down, and by Saturday morning, they.

shut down. That left 17,000 people who. were directly employed or indirectly. employed by Spirit out of work. Tens of. thousands of people who had tickets no. longer have flights. And it left a gaping hole in the airline. market. I wonder if you could rewind the. clock a little bit and tell us about. where this airline came from. Like, what. was its origin story, and how did it end. up symbolizing. low-cost air travel in the United. States? Yeah, so Spirit's origin actually dates. all the way back to the '60s. It started.

as a trucking company. They got into. travel. They got into charter flights. They renamed to Spirit Airlines in '92. But, most people didn't really know who. they were. It wasn't until the mid-2000s. that Spirit adopted the business model. that we all know it for, and that's the. ultra-low-cost air travel model. The. idea is simple, you just cut costs as. much as you can and you pass that along. to passengers in the form of cheap. fares. It was popularized in Europe by. Ryanair, which is still going strong. today, and they thought that they could. bring it to the US with success. And can.

you just explain that model? Like what. did they do or cut to actually keep. those ticket prices so low? Yeah, they. they did a lot. The key thing that they. did, which we all know them for, is. unbundling. Why should we have to raise. everybody's ticket price when only some. people want to eat or drink on board? We. don't think that's fair. We think it. gives customers more choice And the real. champion of this idea was Spirit's chief. executive at the time, Ben Baldanza. Customers are welcome to bring water on. the plane with them. We're not stopping. that, but we sell what we sell. They.

started to separate everything out so. that seat assignments cost extra money, even water, you're paying for carry-ons, having them print your boarding pass, but the seat itself could be really. cheap. So, if you didn't need some of. those things, you could actually buy a. really dirt cheap ticket. I didn't. realize this that they literally charge. you to print your boarding pass. It's. like they're charging for everything. except flying. Like everything else is. considered a luxury just to keep the. ticket as cheap as possible. [music]. Right. And the idea is that, you know, some people don't need it. They're happy.

to pull it up on their phones or they're. they don't need customer service, [music] so why would they pay the extra. fee for it? I recognize our airline is. not for everyone. >> [music]. >> If you want to be coddled in the. airport, if you want an enormous amount. of legroom, if you want a free Coke, >> [music]. >> we're not your airline and we're not. built to be that airline. But if you. want to save $150 round trip, [music]. we're a great deal, come fly us. And they publicized this all with these. [music] racy, provocative ads. One of. them was what they called the MILF sale.

That's an acronym that some people may. know. It's kind of a raunchy and. meaning. Yep, from American Pie, I. believe. >> Yeah, exactly, right. But for Spirit, you know, it means many islands low. fares. A gross. taken from the movie American Pie was. adopted by Spirit Airlines. I mean, you. know, and they go viral, right? I mean, they're not only getting a lot of. attention on their own, but, you know, news organizations start to cover them. Spirit Airlines has a $69 campaign and, you know, if you don't understand the 69.

reference, then Google it. They start. selling tickets for [music] numbers. that, you know, have have other meanings. for, you know, let's say $69. I didn't. know any of this. I am horrified. Social media is buzzing about this. On. our Fox 29 Facebook [music] page, Lori. wrote, "How about grow up?" Victoria. wrote, "I read the ad and kept waiting. to be shocked. [music] So much hoopla. over that." And Spirit starts to get a. lot of attention. People start to kind. of get to know this airline.

Right, more ads means more controversy, means more news coverage, which means. more attention. But, beyond all of that, how was the actual business model. received? Like, given the fact that the. business model itself was kind of a. novel idea here in the United States? Yeah, there was a lot of skepticism. Consumers saw it as nickel and diming. them. Investors had doubts that people. would really want to fly on an airline. like this or that the model could work. And they were the butt of a lot of. jokes. This is pretty crazy here. Spirit.

Airlines is considering a new fee to. talk with a human face-to-face during. check-in. Yeah. This explains the company's new slogan. Spirit Airlines, why are you flying. Spirit Airlines? Weird. I mean, on late night shows, the. idea that like you would have to pay for. a water bottle while flying or a printed. boarding pass, I mean, it just was. outrageous. The CEO of Spirit Airlines. said, "People shouldn't come to Spirit. if they want lots of legroom.".

He said, "We call it Spirit Airlines. because there's only enough room for. your spirit.". >> [laughter]. >> And if being honest, even that's going. to get a little crushed. But you know, they embraced it and when. they got criticism, they would push back. and say, "Look, we're here to make. travel affordable. That's what this is. about and take it or leave it.". And it was slow at first, but then. people start to fly on Spirit and it. starts to take off and they go public in. 2011 and by the next year they're flying.

about 10 million passengers. They're. doing really well. And by 2016, they're. up to 20 million passengers. And what. was behind all that growth? I can't. imagine it was just the racy MILF ads. >> [laughter]. >> Yeah, I mean, they are stealing. travelers from other airlines, but. there's also this idea that they're. bringing people in off the sidelines. So, people who normally wouldn't be. flying but they see an opportunity. because the flights are cheap enough. It. might be. making that choice instead of ordering. takeout. And this is something that Ben. Baldanza himself says is he's like,

"We're not necessarily competing just. with other airlines, we're competing. with other forms of spending." Mhm. And. this new approach that Spirit has is. starting to affect the wider industry. where when Spirit enters an airport for. the first time, you see fares drop. Other airlines have to compete and so. they have to reduce their fares. Mhm. It. actually becomes the subject of academic. study. It's called the the Spirit. effect. >> [music]. >> Did you feel like Spirit was different.

than other airlines? Oh, yeah. I mean, we were the market disruptor. We did. cause the fares to be lower. They called. it the Spirit effect. The first time. this really resonated with me was when I. was flying back from Fort Lauderdale and. I did not have my lanyard on. I was out. of uniform and I sat next to this. gentleman. and his son. and we had a little bit of turbulence. and then you could hear the hydraulics. And that's always something that either. freaks people out or you know, it sounds.

kind of like a dog. It sounds like. something and it's normal. It's. completely normal on the Airbuses. And I could see him getting panicked. So, I was like, "Yes, it's normal. It's. just the hydraulics. Wait. It's okay.". Mhm. [laughter] And so, we're sitting. there and we're, you know, I'm just kind. of talking to him and he like has a. moment and he's like, "Wait, how did you. know that was okay? How did you know. that sound was? Are you just telling me. that?" And I like laughed again and I. was like, I was like, "I'm not wearing my lanyard. I'm actually a Spirit employee.". [laughter]. I was like, "I promise it's normal." And. he was like, "Oh, okay." Okay. Well,

then he started talking to me and I. remember this gentleman being like, "You. guys make it so affordable for me to. take my son on these trips every once in. a while.". You know, it sounded like he shared. custody with his son. So, this was. something very special that he liked to. do with him when he had him. He was a. blue-collar worker. He was like, "I'm. terrified flying, but I really love. being able to do this and love being. able to try taking my son to see. different places.". And. that was a moment for me that I was just.

I Not that I didn't already have pride, but I really started to have pride in. Spirit and our brand and what we did and. the accessibility that we brought. Mhm. Because we did. We had so many first We. had so many first-time fliers, so many. families, so many people that never. would have gotten the opportunity to fly. if it wasn't for us. And I really loved that we had a carrier. that was able to offer that to people. That you got your seat and like you were. able to fly the $49.

round-trip ticket and. hop on a flight for the weekend to see. your family that you normally wouldn't. have been able to do because all you. cared about was getting from point A to. point B safely. You didn't need the super fancy seats. You didn't need the pretzels snacks. You. didn't need the single pour of Coca-Cola. like it was about getting there and it. was about the journey that you were. going to have once you got there. We were able to connect people that. otherwise wouldn't have been able to. afford to be connected.

So Niraj, it sounds like at least for a. while, Spirit was really making. progress, revolutionizing travel. When. did things start going south? Well, a. few things start to happen. The first. big thing is that Spirit becomes a. victim of its own success. They can't be ignored anymore and. they're flying in a lot of places where. the big airlines are flying too. And so. the big airlines introduce something. called basic economy, which is basically. a a Spirit competing fare.

It comes with a lot of restrictions. It. doesn't include a checked bag or. carry-on bag. You often can't pick your. own seat, but you can pay for those, right? Just like Spirit. >> Mhm. But the problem is that these. bigger airlines, they also have a lot of. resources. So. >> Right, because if you have a choice. between United and Spirit and they cost. the same, you're probably going to go. with the bigger airline. Right. Spirit. may be flying on a route twice a day and. United might fly the same route eight. times. >> Mhm. If your flight gets canceled, there's a backup. There's also customer.

service. There's all these other. benefits for flying with the big. airlines. And so if you're looking at. the same cost, you might be inclined to. choose them. And that poses a really big. problem for Spirit. They can't really. lower fares much more than they already. have. And so to compete with the big. airlines, they have to start to improve. quality. They have to get you to where. you're going on time more often. They. have to have better customer service and. that's expensive and that puts a lot of. pressure on Spirit's business model. And. keep in mind also, the big guys, they.

have more profitable seats at the front. of the plane. So they can subsidize the. basic economy seats. Spirit doesn't have. that. Right, Spirit does not have a. $2,000 business class seat. >> Exactly. Yeah. Okay, so they're feeling. the heat from the bigger airlines. Tell. us sort of what happens from there. Yeah, so you know, the pandemic. obviously hurts all airlines equally. But then there's this faster than. expected recovery. People really want to. travel. And so there's this fierce. competition going on and that keeps. fares low, makes it hard for Spirit to. earn a profit.

At the same time, a lot of pilots end up. retiring during the pandemic, but then, you know, in the years after airlines. really need them back and so they end up. paying a lot more to stay competitive. That starts with the big airlines, but. then everybody else has to do their best. to match because there just aren't that. many pilots around. So, you know, Spirit. starts to see that labor, one of their. biggest costs, is going up. And their. edge is all about costs and if their. costs are starting to look a lot like. the same costs that the big airlines. have, then they've lost their edge.

>> [music]. >> So, they're in this position where costs. are rising, competition is fierce, and. there are all these other problems that. they're just having to deal with. And so then they decide they need. [music] to do something to get back on. track. >> [music]. >> We'll be right back.

Okay, so at this point, Niraj, it sounds. like Spirit is really getting squeezed. in a whole bunch of different ways. What. do they do to try to get back on track? Yeah, well, one thing they try to do is. is they actually try to merge with one. of their rivals, Frontier Airlines, which is another budget carrier. They. announced this in 2022 and the thinking. was that they're struggling, things are. hard, but if they could create this big. national low-cost carrier, that they.

might actually be able to to kind of. make some moves, you know, they might be. able to take on the bigger airlines in a. better way. But then JetBlue Airways. decides it actually wants to acquire. Spirit and it makes a better offer and. it ends up squeezing Frontier out and. they go forward with a JetBlue Spirit. merger. But then the Justice Department. says, "Wait a second. We like Spirit. Spirit does good things. in the airline industry. It keeps fares. low." And so they sue to stop the merger. because they're afraid that if JetBlue.

takes Spirit in, they're going to change. the way Spirit's planes work, they're. going to change the business model, and. they're going to end up raising fares. They're basically arguing that if these. two airlines merge, it would be bad for. consumers. It's basically an antitrust. argument. Exactly. Exactly. One of the things that. JetBlue said during the merger process. is that we're going to take some seats. out of Spirit's planes. Spirit packs in. the seats really tightly to fit as many. people as they can on a plane. JetBlue. says, "We're going to add a little. legroom, make it a little more. comfortable." But the Justice Department.

says, "Well, wait a second. That means. that your costs are going to go up. You're going to have to charge more to. cover that." And what was Spirit's. counterargument to that? Yeah, you know, as Spirit and JetBlue. were saying, "Look, this is going to be. good for consumers because we're going. to have more market power. You know, JetBlue is a low-cost airline, and it's. not what Spirit is, but JetBlue does. compete to keep fares low, and that. together, you know, as as a national. player operating in all these airports, we would be able to actually serve. consumers better." Basically, they're. saying if we can pool our resources. together, we're going to be able to. compete better with the big guys, and.

ergo, we're going to be able to give. customers lower fares. Right. You know, with with enough scale, we have the. resources to keep fares low in a lot. more places. But then the federal court. judge decides that Spirit's presence at. an airport can lower fares 5, 10%, and. we need that in the market, and this. merger is anticompetitive. Okay, so merger doesn't happen. Where. does Spirit go from here? So, they file. for bankruptcy in 2024, they get out of. bankruptcy in 2025, but then file for.

bankruptcy again in 2025. And then. coming into this year, the Iran war. starts, and that sends fuel prices. skyrocketing. And Spirit has a plan to get out of. bankruptcy, but then it seems like the. fuel prices is high, that plan is just. not going to work. Right. That would be. a challenge for any airline to suddenly. have to shoulder these rising fuel. costs, but especially a challenge for an. airline that has just gone through two. bankruptcies and is really trying to. keep its costs low to stay competitive.

Exactly. And you know, labor costs have. already gone up, fuel costs are now. going up. Those are the two biggest. costs of for any airline. And so, the. Trump administration steps in and they. say, you know, what can we do? These are. a lot of jobs. This is an important. airline to the economy. And on top of. that, presumably the optics of this do. not look great, right? Having an. airline, specifically an airline that. caters to working-class people go under. because of a war started under the Trump. administration. Exactly. And they float. this idea of a $500 million lifeline.

The government would have to step in and. lend the company that money. But the government wants protection, you. know, they don't want to lend money with. no strings attached. They want to get. preferential treatment over the other. lenders that have lent Spirit money. And. Spirit's existing lenders don't love. that idea. So, that they continue. talking, but late last week it becomes. clear that there's not really a path. forward. There's just not a deal to be. done. And so, Spirit's lenders tell. Spirit, you know, we think it's time for. you to wind down. And you know, they. have to move quickly. Airlines are. expensive. You can't announce that an.

airline's going to shut down weeks in. advance because a lot of people are. going to start to peel away. And so, on. Friday they continue flying. They fly. 50,000 people. The last flight in lands. in Dallas just after midnight. And. Saturday morning at just after 2:00. a.m., they announce, "We're done. Spirit. Airlines is shut down.". When did you find out? Um, so. this might make me choke [music] up, but.

um. at about 11:00 p.m. We got called into a meeting by our AFA. International President, Sara Nelson. And um. I just remember seeing Sara's face. I'm sorry. [laughter]. And they do it's over. And she told us it was. it was over. And that we were shutting down.

And um. we all cried a lot. >> [music]. >> It's been a really crazy. um. 72-ish. hours for all of us um. >> [snorts]. >> because. we're losing our family. Are you hearing from colleagues and. friends? And actually um.

I'm I'm at one of my friend's house with. about eight other flight attendants. right now. >> [laughter]. >> Oh my gosh. And it. it's like we're all grieving. We're all so here. But I think we're like grieving the loss. because like Spirit's the catalyst that. like brought us all together. And like that's gone now. And um. after you've spent years dedicating this. time to this company that you had so. much pride in and you believed in and.

that you loved and you loved the people. that you work with. It. it just comes in waves. It comes in waves. You know, I kind of always thought like. if something were to happen like I would. walk away from aviation and that last. week I was like there's no way. There's. no way that I can walk away from. aviation. Um. it gets into your it gets into your.

aviation and I just. I. there's there's truly like thinking back. on it and I'm like there isn't anything. else that. >> [music]. >> that I want to do. But. >> [music]. >> there's just something about it the you. know the black and yellow in our blood. that I you know it's going to be hard. ever find that again for us. It's never. going to be the same.

>> [music]. >> Senator Raj, we mentioned earlier in our. conversation that there's been this. outpouring of grief from people who. travel who took Spirit who are so sad. that it has gone away. Can you just. describe for us. what did that grief look like? What did. it sound like since Spirit announced. that it was going under on Saturday? Yeah, you know, I think the immediate. reaction for some people was surprise. We heard from people at airports on.

Saturday who had no idea this was coming. and showed up and you know very quickly. had to figure out how they were going to. get home. But I think you know as frustrated as. people were at times with Spirit I think. people really started to understand its. place and appreciated it for what it. was. This is a sad day. Thousands of. people that really depend on this low. cost airline to travel that may not have. otherwise gone anywhere. And. I think. seeing it gone is sad for a lot of.

people. Spirit was good for [music]. you know the working consumer who loves. to travel who knows how to pack light. I've taken Spirit a lot of places. And. you know looking online you see this. outpouring of tributes to Spirit. This. is kind of heartbreaking because. whenever I wanted to get like a cheap. last minute flight somewhere I'd be like. let's check Spirit. And now I won't be able to do that. >> [music]. >> And there were a lot of travelers out. there who were able to go on vacation. because.

of airlines like Spirit. >> Mhm. Spirit never did me wrong. Like, do. you understand how much flights cost. nowadays? Like, on some real stuff, flights are super expensive. And so, it. really did have a place for people. >> [music]. >> What is your diagnosis ultimately, Niraj, about what Spirit's downfall was? Like, how much should we attribute to. the rising cost associated with the war. in Iran or other headwinds faced by.

budget airlines or the airline industry. as a whole? It's definitely death by a thousand. cuts. I mean, Spirit just had an. unforgiving few years, and they just. could not catch a break. They couldn't. get stable footing. But, you know, I think it also shows. that this business model itself is. really unforgiving. There's not a lot of. buffer. And so, if one too many things. go wrong, it's hard to recover. Hindsight is obviously 20/20, but how. should we be thinking about the merger. that the DOJ blocked in 2024? Because.

at the time, Spirit said, "We need. this." The DOJ obviously didn't buy that. argument, and now here we are. Yeah, it's it's really set off this. political debate. The Trump. administration says, you know, look, the. Biden administration interfered, and now. Spirit's going under. And some experts. I've talked to agree. They say that, you. know, had this merger gone forward, this. new combined airline might have been. able to survive and be vibrant and lower. fares across the country. But then, a.

lot of experts aren't so sure. Airline. mergers are notoriously difficult to. pull off. They cost lots of money, and. there's just no guarantee that it would. have ended well for JetBlue and Spirit. I want to talk about what Spirit's. demise means for the future of air. travel more broadly. Like, since they. came on the scene, there have been other. low-cost budget airlines like Frontier. and Allegiant. So, what does the. collapse of Spirit mean for those guys, if anything? It's a mixed picture. So, you mentioned Allegiant and and they. actually adopted this model around the. same time as Spirit and they have.

actually done pretty well. They just. actually are in the middle of acquiring. another airline, Sun Country. And part. of the reason for their success is, unlike Spirit, Allegiant was able to. stay off the radar of the big airlines. So, about 75% of their routes, they have. zero competition. >> Mhm. But, you know, others, not so much. Frontier, like Spirit, is facing a lot. of the same problems. I do wonder also about the bigger. airlines, the Uniteds, the Americans, etc. Like, I do wonder whether the.

bigger guys will now have just that much. less incentive to offer competitive. low-cost fares. Do you foresee that. happening? Yeah, the experts that I. talked to do think that fares are going. to rise and they say that to some extent. that probably was going to happen. anyway. Fuel costs have gone up, airlines have to cover that. But, for the big airlines, they're so. much more focused on the elite traveler. They have really discovered that in the. last few years that if they invest in. those people who are willing to spend a. lot of money, they can earn a lot of profit. And and.

it's worked exceptionally well for. airlines like Delta and United. They've. invested in lounges, they've invested in. their loyalty programs, they've invested. in fancy seats and plane renovations and. it's really paying off. And so, will they still compete for basic. economy travelers? Sure. Those are. travelers that they see maybe someday. upgrading to main economy and up to. business class. But, right now, those. airlines are really focused on the front. of the plane, those nice big fancy. seats. It's interesting because the. Spirit era was really marked by these.

airlines stripping amenities out from. what they offered so that they could. offer low-budget fares. But, what you. are describing sounds like almost going. in the opposite direction, like more and. more offering these luxury amenities and. it feels as though what you are. describing is a real widening of the. division that already exists in air. travel and so many other facets of. American life between the haves and the. have-nots. Yeah, you know, I mean Spirit. in its early years really democratized.

air travel, but even before it shut down. Spirit was embracing catering to the. premium traveler. They last summer announced plans to add. premium seats at the front of their. planes and they actually started to. rebundle their fares so that buy a. single ticket that included a lot of the. things that they once stripped out. So even before Spirit went under, we. were already starting to see a retreat. from that business model that was just. sharply focused on low cost and low.

fares. And so there's this sense that yeah, maybe the industry is headed in a. direction where it's not as focused on. serving everybody. Naraj, thank you so much. Thank you. [music]. We'll be right back.

>> [music]. >> Here's what else you need to know today. Iran said on Wednesday that it was. reviewing an [music] American proposal. to end the war a day after President. Trump paused a new US military effort to. protect ships in the Strait of Hormuz. Iran's foreign [music] ministry. spokesman said that his government had. not yet given its response to the US. proposal. and neither he nor President [music]. Trump said what it contained. And. Tennessee Republicans proposed a.

congressional map [music] aimed at. diluting the state's lone majority black. district a swift response to last week's. Supreme Court ruling that weakened the. Voting Rights Act. The new Tennessee map. slices the county containing Memphis a. majority-black [music] city, into three. districts and likely will give. Republicans the ability to flip. Tennessee's lone remaining Democratic. seat. >> [music]. >> And finally, Ted Turner, the 20th-century media titan. who created CNN, died on Wednesday at. the age of 87.

When Turner debuted CNN in 1980, [music]. it revolutionized television news, presenting news at all hours of the day. and eventually inspiring other media. [music] operations to follow suit. >> [music]. >> Today's episode was produced by Stella. Tan, Lindsay Garrison, and Diana Wynn. Was edited [music] by Rob Zipko and. Michael Benoist. With research help from Will Pichell. and contains music by Chelsea Daniel, Marion Lozano, [music]. Alyssa Moxley, Dan Powell, Pat McCusker,

and Diane Wong. Our theme music is by Wonderly. This episode was engineered by Alyssa. [music] Moxley. >> [music]. >> That's it for The Daily. I'm Rachel. Abrams. See you tomorrow.