Two Superpowers Walk Into a Garden

from The New York Times I'm Sabrina. tavernes and this is the. [Music]. daily We Begin tonight with a critical. event for President Biden this week one. of the most highly anticipated. diplomatic events of the Year took place. in a mansion outside San Francisco. President Biden has a high-stake summit. today with China XI jingping somewhere. near where President Biden and XI. jingping of China met to repair their.

country's relations this is the first. time they are meeting the first time. they are even talking in a year and it. comes as president which had sunk to one. of the lowest points since they were. established in 1972 with the world. watching a lot is riding on this meeting. with the nation's biggest rival today my. colleague Edward Wong on the effort to. bring the relationship back from the. [Music]. brink it's Friday November 7.

[Music]. 17th so Ed we've been talking to you. throughout this year about the world's. most important relationship and that is. the relationship between the United. States and China and this week there was. a breakthrough of sorts President Biden. and Chinese leader Xi Jinping met on. Wednesday in the United States so help. us understand what was at stake here. well Sabrina this is the first time that.

siin ping has come to the United States. since 2017 and these two leaders are the. heads of Nations that are the preeminent. economic and Military powers in the. world right now but these days what. we're seeing is that the military. dimension of the relationship is. starting to overshadow the economic ties. the US is constantly telling us about. the rapid expansion of China's military. its growth and on Beijing side they see.

the us as a power that wants to have. unfettered military access throughout. the Asia Pacific so what you're saying. is that they are perhaps slowly but. steadily becoming military Rivals that's. right and what we're hearing from. President Biden and his AIDS is that the. US and China really need to have. highlevel diplomacy to figure out what. guard rails to put on the relationship. so that they don't end up in an armed. conflict okay so that's the Global. Security Stakes of this meeting which.

are quite substantial that's right it's. a very fraught backdrop many countries. in the world see the relationship. between the US and China as the one in. the world that could affect the. economies and even the military. development of other countries and a lot. of people who've been watching the. relationship closely say it had reached. an all-time low we of course have talked. a lot on the show you and I Ed about. China's relationship with the US and how. it has soured so if we were to go back.

and remind people what all has happened. to lead up to this moment where would. you begin what is the moment you would. start to help us understand that well. things were already very bad before. Biden came into the office because the. relations had entered a downward spiral. during the Trump era and then when Biden. came in Chinese officials really thought. things might improve but Biden continued. to take a confrontational approach. towards China and then there were things. outside his control that really made. things worse.

so one of the biggest flash points that. took place in us China relations was. when Nancy Pelosi the house Speaker. decided to visit Taiwan in August of. 2022 and the house Speaker one of the. highest ranking officials in the US. visiting Taiwan is a big deal something. that President Biden had said he didn't. want to. happen and remind me Ed why that was. such an inflammatory thing well China. sees Taiwan as a part of China not as an.

independent government and so it doesn't. want other countries to have diplomatic. relations with Taiwan so then China took. very aggressive military actions to. retaliate against that it fired off. missiles around the Taiwan straight and. also went further it broke off highlevel. dialogues of the us including military. conversations that were taking place. between the top commanders of both. countries and what does it mean exactly. Ed to break off milit.

dialogue well when you have two. countries that have militaries as large. as China and the US and when those. countries are Rivals you really want to. have strong lines of communication. between the military. leaders the reason is because the. militaries of these two countries might. brush up against each other in lots of. different settings around the world and. so you want leaders to be able to talk. to each other to figure out what's. happening if a crisis starts to erupt. and that could then end up prev V in a.

larger armed. [Music]. conflict so in other words they're. trying to prevent the kind of. misunderstanding that can lead to. conflict which can happen when there's. maximum suspicion and minimum. communication between two countries. right that's right so this is very. important and it became an established. practice during the Cold War in that era. America and the Soviet Union had these. very close lines of communication among. the militaries in order to prevent. nuclear war the two militaries were.

operating all around the globe and they. wanted to make sure that there wasn't a. crisis that could expand like the Cuban. Missile Crisis for example that could. lead to nuclear confrontation right. because our relationship with the Soviet. Union was fundamentally one of two. military adversaries right but we. managed to avoid nuclear conflict. through those back channels what you're. calling military to military. communication that's right so I think. people understand that this is an. important foundation to lay among Rivals.

of this size and US officials tell me. that this is one of the most important. things they can possibly do with China. they've been saying that military to. military ties are fairly weak between. the US and China and they're very. concerned about this and what makes the. American officials so anxious is that in. recent years the Chinese and American. militaries have been coming to closer. and closer contact all across Asia this. has been happening for example in the. South China Sea as Chinese vessels and. aircraft come into closer contact with.

American naval ships and American jets. there and US officials tell me that as. these militaries come into closer. contact with each other they really need. the leaders of the militaries to be. talking quickly to each other too to. make sure that a crisis does not erupt. so after China sever these military to. military Communications what happens. then well within a couple months. President Biden announces a very. ambitious policy towards China which is. a restriction on exports of the most.

advanced microchips to China and China. sees this as a huge provocation they see. this as the us trying to limit China's. economic growth and to really keep the. country down so this is another big bump. in the relationship is there a point. where the two sides try to reset kind of. have a cooling off period Well President. Biden and president C have an important. meeting that November in Bali we begin. with a Landmark meeting between two of.

the world's most powerful leaders. president Jo and they're meeting on the. sidelines of the G20 Summit in today's. meeting I stand ready to talk candidly. with my. counterpart these two men had never met. before in person as the leaders of their. country as you know I'm committed to. keeping the lines of communications open. between you and me personally but our. governments across the board because our. two countries are have so much that we.

have an opportunity to deal with so the. whole purpose of this meeting was for. each leader to tell the other one that. there needed to be some foundational. stability in the relationship they. wanted to be able to weather certain. storms like what happened with Nancy. Pelosi when she went to Taiwan they. thought that this would be the start of. an effort to really bring relations in. 2023 back to a higher level but then as. we know of course that gets tested.

pretty quickly with that strange Chinese. spy balloon floating over Montana in. February you and I did an episode about. that it was kind of unclear exactly what. it was whether the Chinese had wanted to. send it but at any rate the relationship. is still on the Rocks right and at the. moment Sabrina us officials were trying. to figure out whether C was the one who. had given the green light for this. balloon to go over the us and that it. just happened that the Americans. discovered it but then us intelligence. agencies figured out that the balloon.

had drifted off course and then they. also found out that she didn't know. about the balloon that it was a program. under the pla the Chinese military and. that she only found out about it after. it come over the us and that she even. got furious at his generals for what. happened right I mean I remember ending. that episode thinking it was pretty. crazy that this huge relationship is. blown off course by this little balloon. right and at the time you said you know. both countries really badly wanted to. get to the point where incidents like.

that did not paralyze them but it seemed. unlikely at the time that's how we ended. that episode so what gets these leaders. back to the table what happens so the US. and China decide to engage in this. intense diplomatic scramble to really. try and get highle talks back on track. and the US starts sending a series of. senior Biden aids to. China the US Secretary of State Anthony. blinkin met with the Chinese foreign. minister in Beijing it's the in June I.

went with blinkin when he made his visit. finally to China it was his first visit. as Secretary of State and then some. other cabinet secretaries followed. treasury secretary Janet Yellen will. visit us climate Envoy John KY is in. Beijing us Commerce Secretary Gina Rondo. heading to China this weekend she's the. fourth senior Biden Administration. official now to make the trip un and. then Senate Majority Leader Chuck. Schumer met with Chinese president C. ping even decided to meet with Chuck. Schumer the senior Democrat in the.

Senate China president Xi Jinping. welcomes California governor Gavin Nome. and Gavin Nome the governor of. California and I think what that really. showed was that she himself really. wanted to get the diplomacy on a stable. [Music]. footing and while all this was going on. people in both capitals were wondering. whether this meant that she would decide. to come to the United States at some. point this fall and meet with Biden I. mean I remember you and I were talking.

about this right and it was kind of. unclear whether he would the jury was. out for quite a while yeah I wasn't. quite certain just a few weeks ago us. officials were telling me that the. chances are probably 7030 that she would. come and here in Washington among the. Diplomatic press court and the White. House reporters we're all trying to. decide whether pack our bags to go to. San Francisco for a. meeting and then we finally got word. last week that she was on his way and. this was the meeting that people have.

been waiting for all throughout the. year we'll be right. back so what actually happens at this. much anticipated meeting on Wednesday. bring us into the room well Sabrina Cen. ping flies into San Francisco and he and.

his Convoy go south of the city to a. vast estate near the coast this is the. FI estate which is founded by a gold. baren a century ago it's Lush there's. amazing trees all over the place and she. PS. up ready to in his Chinese made red flag. limousine at the door of the. manor. doors and Biden Den GUI right there on. the red carpet they shake hands and then.

they walk together inside the state and. at 11:30 or so this time of year about a. year and a day ago we met imali the two. deliver opening remarks I value our. conversation because I think it's. Paramount that you and I understand each. other clearly leader to leader with no. misconceptions or. miscommunication Biden tells C that he's. there to make sure that the two Le. leaders and the two countries have clear.

lines of communication that they really. understand each other's intentions we. have to ensure that competition does not. Veer into conflict and we also have to. manage it responsibly that. competition Mr President good morning. and she tells Biden and the public China. us relationship has never been smooth. sailing over the past 50 years or more. and it always faces problems of one kind. or another yet it has kept moving.

forward amid twists and turns that. planet Earth is big enough for two. superpowers I'm still of the view that. major country competition is not the. prevailing trend of current times and. cannot solve the problems facing China. and the United States or the World At. Large that the two can coexist and. cooperate and they don't need to be. Rivals and one country's success is an. opportunity for the other and I think. what's interesting Sabrina when you. listen to those two sets of remarks is.

that she doesn't even want to frame the. US China relationship as a competition. or as a rivalry whereas Biden is very. explicit that they're engaged in. competition and in a way the two leaders. are talking past each other even in. their public remarks right Biden. actually seems to have the more hawkish. position in these meetings if you're. listening to the public statements so. what do we know then about what happens. once they actually get into the room.

well Sabrina both Biden and C talked. about some of the big long running. issues between the two Nations like. Taiwan but both sides also affirmed that. there were areas of cooperation that. they could move forward on one of them. was climate change they also said that. China would try and limit the export of. chemicals that are used to make fentel. but I think what's more important is. that the two leaders realized their. governments needed to establish rules of. the Rivalry and that they couldn't let.

things spin out of control okay so rules. of this new rivalry we've been talking. about what kinds of rules what did they. actually. decide well I think one of the outcomes. that everyone was hoping for was that. the two countries would reestablish. highlevel talks between their military. commanders us officials have been. working hard to try and get that. reestablished and out of this meeting. both leaders agreed that that should. happen so that communication channel is. open again what else was on the table on.

the security front what other guard. rails did they discuss well one thing. that has surprised us officials is that. Chinese officials seem more willing to. enter into talks over Arms Control now. China had wanted to avoid doing this for. a long time and I think that at this. meeting there were more encouraging. signs that Chinese officials were. willing to do this and at Arms Control. obviously famously the United States did. a lot of it with the Soviet. why is China asking for it.

exactly well China sees the US starting. to build up its military alliances. around the Asia Pacific and it sees the. us trying to deploy more ballistic. missiles all over the Asia Pacific. region and the obvious purpose for that. would be to aim those missiles at China. in the event of War so the US is sending. tomahawk missiles to Japan for example. as a result of strengthening its. alliances with Tokyo and so China is.

concerned about this it doesn't want. more deployment of these missiles all. around it and so it's willing to at. least start engaging the US in possible. Arms Control talks and the US is also. very concerned us officials have been. watching China's buildup of its nuclear. Arsenal for some months now right now. it's the third ranking country in terms. of number of nuclear warheads still far. below us and Russia but it could quickly. accelerate the growth of its Arsenal but.

it sounds like from the Chinese. perspective the US is in fact the one. with a dangerous Behavior the Chinese. are basically saying Hey guys you're. telling us to you know put on this seat. belt observe the rules of the road but. you guys are the ones that are driving. the car 90 miles hour China has long. felt that way and it believes that US. forces are the military aggressors in. the Asia Pacific they think that the US. Navy is pushing the boundaries of where. it operates and that it's not respecting. the Li that China is trying to set in.

the region there it strikes me that she. in a lot of ways kind of looks like The. Peacemaker here I mean he's presenting. himself as above The Fray and saying hey. we really want to put the brakes on this. we don't see this relationship as a. confrontation well this is something. that China has been trying to put. forward in the world for some months now. it wants China and she to look like. these are the adults in the room she. wants to make it look like he's the one. who who's trying to keep everything on a.

stable footing with the United States he. wants it to make it look like the US is. the aggressor in the relationship and. it's consistent with the way they've. approached some other conflicts around. the world China has often called for. peace talks in Ukraine it's now calling. for ceasefire in the Israel Goda war and. so it likes to present this image of. itself as the main diplomatic Force. that's countering greater aggression by. the US H so how does this meeting wrap. up how does it end well the two signs.

talked with each other for two hours at. that long table in the manor and then. Biden and she went off to have a. two-hour lunch meeting in a much smaller. setting and they ate chicken as well as. rice Poff and some other California. Specialties doesn't seem very elegant. for dinner for the Chinese leader but. what are you gonna do right okay so. stepping back and looking at this. meeting with a little bit of hindsight. Ed how should I understand what happened.

here I mean we started off this. conversation talking about how the US. and China are really transitioning to a. new kind of relationship this kind of. military rivalry where are we in the Arc. of that transition and how do we. understand this meeting in that context. well seren I think we're somewhere maybe. in the middle of that Arc the dynamic. started a few years ago and it's. accelerating now China's military. buildup is frightening many US officials. and that w and anytime soon and the US.

intends to maintain its military. dominance of the Asia Pacific those two. things are incompatible and I think what. we'll see is further crisis points in. the road ahead when they talk about. reaching agreement on certain small. things like fento that's just to try and. maintain a certain level of stability in. the relationship but on the big issues. like Taiwan like which military gets. dominance of the region these are huge. question questions that both countries.

haven't tackled yet in any satisfactory. Manner and I think that it'll be hard. for both of them to address these issues. in a diplomatic setting so you're saying. in a lot of important ways this didn't. actually lower the temperature that much. perhaps this is more like a temporary. pause in what is likely to be an overall. declining relationship right I wouldn't. even call it a pause Sabrina I would say. that I think both sides probably accept. the direction the relationship was going. at this point but that they realized.

they need to maintain Communications and. that was the bar that Biden and his a. set for us when they briefed us on these. talks before they began they set a very. low bar saying all they wanted to do was. maintain some level of. communication but Ed I guess thinking. about this meeting and you're telling me. about it you know what I would say is at. least they now have some seat belts. right it's potentially not quite as. dangerous do we have a sense of how she. is really seeing this well we know that.

c has made a lot of public remarks in. which he's really pointed to aggressive. moves by the us this year for example he. said for the first time in a setting. that the US is trying to contain China. they see the US is trying to implant its. rules and its institutions around the. world whether it's through the trade. deals it negotiates or whether it's. through American dominance in the United. Nations or the World Bank for example. and that all of these rules are set to.

try and limit the growth of other. superpowers so when the US officials. talk about what they call a rules-based. international order Chinese officials. russan officials and many others see. this as us attempts to keep other. countries. [Music]. down so Chinese officials are. essentially saying okay you want rules. but whose rules they're effectively your. rules we want to set our own exactly.

Sabrina I think what we're going to see. coming up in the months ahead is that. China will increasingly push to set. those rules and that this is another. area of Confrontation between the two. Nations Ed thank you thanks. Sabrina after the meeting on Wednesday. Biden was asked at a news conference. whether he still thought that xiin PIN. was a dictator he said that he did and.

he's a dictator in the sense that he he. is a guy who runs a country that is. country that based on what ISL. government told me different thans later. that night at a dinner with business. Executives the Chinese leader seemed. intent on presenting himself as a. willing partner he said quote the number. one question for us is are we. adversaries or are we friends and he. added China is ready to be a partner and. a friend of the United.

[Music]. States we'll be right. back here's what else you should know. today on Thursday a day after it took. control of shiffa Hospital the largest. hospital in the Gaza strip the Israeli. military was still searching the site.

for evidence to prove its claim that the. hospital concealed a secret Hamas base. the claim that Hamas operated from. within the sprawling Hospital complex. has been Central to Israel's defense of. its military campaign in Gaza which is. now said to have killed more than 11,000. people the military has yet to present. documentation of a network of tunnels. but Israel released several videos to. bolster its case one on Thursday of what. it said was a tunnel that was used by. Hamas however it was unclear from the.

video what purpose the passageway served. or how far it extended another video. showed about a dozen guns a grenade. protective vests and military uniforms. it said its soldiers had found within an. MRI unit at the hospital the times could. not verify the Providence of the weapons. a Hamas spokesman on Thursday accused. Israel of planting them the United. States for its part said on Thursday. that it believed that Hamas had been. using the complex as a base and a jury.

convicted David deap of federal crimes. for breaking into the home of. Representative Nancy Pelosi in October. of 2022 and bludgeoning her husband Paul. with a hammer according to testimony at. trial deap became obsessed with. right-wing conspiracy theories and. embraced the dehumanizing language about. Nancy Pelosi that conservative pundits. and politicians have used for years the. attack raised fears about political. violence ahead of last year's midterm.

elections deap faces the possibility of. decades in. [Music]. prison today's episode was produced by. Shannon Lynn Luke Vander plug and Sydney. Harper it was edited by MJ Davis Lynn. with help from Brendan clink Berg. contains original music by Marian Lozano. and Dan Powell and was engineered fisa. Moxley our theme music is by Jim run and. Ben lansberg of.

[Music]. wonderly that's it for the daily I'm. Sabrina tavernes see you on. [Music]. Monday.