Trump Takes Aim at the Department of Education

from The New York Times I'm Kim Severson. this is the. [Music]. daily in the coming days president Trump. is expected to sign an executive order. that would at least on paper follow. through on one of his major campaign. promises to abolish the US Department of. Education the catch is he still needs it. to impose his vision on American schools.

today my colleague Dana Goldstein on how. Trump is balancing a desire to both. dismantle and weaponize the education. department it's Monday March. [Music]. 10th Dana over the past few days we've. been hearing that President Trump has. plans to abolish the Department of. Education and even for an Administration. that's been dis mantling agencies across.

government this felt pretty big you're a. veteran education reporter talk to us. about what's happening so a draft. executive order attempting to dismantle. the federal department of education has. been circulating in Washington and we. have seen it and it's no surprise to us. that this draft is out there we've been. hearing for many weeks now that. President Trump will sign an order like. this in fact several times we were sort. of poised watching video of him sitting.

at the Resolute desk in the Oval Office. with executive orders that he was about. to sign thinking is this the day is one. of these pieces of paper the one that. will attempt to abolish the agency and. so far he hasn't done it but it does. seem that this is something that is in. very serious consideration for him okay. this all sounds pretty drastic. eliminating the entire department of. education and I want to understand why.

he wants to do that but before we get. there it might be helpful to understand. and I hate to admit that I don't know. this what exactly is the Department of. Education responsible for well I think. it's important to step back and. understand not just what it does but. also what it doesn't do it does not set. the curriculum of local public schools. or reading lists or decide how many. teachers to hire or what teachers are. paid or what student discipline policy. should be or what standardized test.

should be given all of that is. controlled by state and local. governments so there's not like a. federal rule about how much history a. kid needs to graduate from high school. did feds do none of that they do not do. that in fact 90% of the funding for. local schools comes from local and state. governments and only about 10% comes. from Washington and flows through the. Federal Department of Education that 10%. is important because it focuses on. low-income students and children with.

disabilities and what a lot of people. may not realize is that over 70% of what. the department of education does is. administer the student aid program so. grants and loans that help students pay. their college tuition and they also fund. education research so attempts to figure. out what are the best ways to teach. students how to read better they fund. efforts to measure how American students. are doing academically compared to. students around the world Okay so we've.

got loans and research and finally the. last thing they do is enforce. anti-discrimination or civil rights laws. so these are the laws that attempt to. make sure the students are not being. discriminated against based on their. gender their race their ethnicity their. religion so for instance if a school is. not giving Black Or Hispanic students. equal access to gifted programs or. advanced placement classes they might be. investigated and that is very. inconvenient it is a pretty big deal for.

school system and they would essentially. be pressured into changing these. [Music]. practices so if the department got. eliminated would all those things just. poof go away well not really I think we. have to say first of all that only. Congress can vote to abolish a cabinet. agency so president Trump by signing an. order like this does not have the. ability to abolish the Department of. Education but even if he somehow was.

able to abolish the department it's not. like all of these functions I just laid. out would suddenly cease to exist one. way to think of the Department of. Education is that it's like a bucket and. inside of it are all these programs and. money that are appropriated and created. by Congress so if you do get rid of this. bucket you still have to deal with all. the contents of the bucket but why even. sign the executive order then I mean. Trump's not exactly Mr follow the law.

all the time but this seems seems pretty. open and shut it's a cabinet agency so. why sign an executive order abolishing. it if it stands to be overturned in the. courts you know in a lot of ways Kim. it's. symbolic and like a lot of these. executive orders it's less about their. legal force and more about announcing. this administration's priorities this. particular order would be a loud and. bold way of signaling that this. president wants to majorly overhaul. education in this country and.

drastically change the federal. government's role and what do we imagine. overhauling education would look like. well I think to figure that out we have. to look at what president Trump has. actually done so far with the agency. because that gives us a lot of insight. into how the next four years will go. with him in office when it comes to. education okay so what has happened to. get a sense of that we can actually look. at what is going on inside the. Department of Education building in. Washington DC there are people in there.

embedded from Elon musk's Department of. government efficiency group and what. they are doing is really looking to. slash budgets to decimate the research. efforts of the agency they are looking. to lay off workers and they have done so. and they are looking to replace some. human work with artificial intelligence. our reporting showed that they are. particularly focused there on the call. center that anwers students and parents. questions about federal financial aid.

which you can imagine is super complex. gets into some really personal and. private information about. families they are interested in handling. way more of that with an AI chatbot and. they are actually attempting to build it. internally so they are very busy inside. of the Department of Education right now. okay so this is part of the overarching. idea like streamline the government take. things out of the federal government. hands as much as possible save a bunch.

of money get rid of workers who maybe. are perceived to not be needed this is. basically kind of a doge operation is. that right yeah that's part of it but. Kil about a lot more than just that. President Trump has a broader sort of. Maga vision for public education which. is really about battling what he and has. allly see as woke ideology that has. pervaded the nation schools around. issues like rape.

gender sexuality and American history. and we are already seeing this play out. and I will give you a couple of examples. remember that investigative power of the. Department of Education that I mentioned. which enforces anti-discrimination laws. they the Trump Administration are. already using that power but in a very. different really polar opposite way so. for. instance they are investigating the. Denver public schools because they had. transformed a single girl's restroom in.

one high school into a non-binary. restroom and they are investigating. whether this could potentially be. considered a violation of girls civil. rights they are looking into the itha. public schools investigating a series of. conferences that were held there that. were for students of color and looking. into an allegation that white students. were not invited to these conferences. which were about diversity issues and. consider whether that could be.

considered a violation of white students. rights okay and they also just late last. week president Trump signed an order. that would attempt to withhold federal. student loan forgiveness for Public. Service careers from workers who are. working at nonprofit organizations whose. policies around immigration or around. transgender issues Buck president. Trump's ideas on those issues so people. people who took jobs at these.

nonprofits that Trump doesn't like with. the promise of having their loans. forgiven would no longer get that. benefit well we don't know if this will. stand up legally in the courts but that. is the attempt yes so Trump is already. infusing the American education system. with his new vision of what public. education should be yes absolutely and. part of why this is such a big change is. that it used to be not that long ago. that both Republicans and Democrat RS. agreed that the federal government had a.

big role to play in education in holding. schools accountable for doing a good job. in educating students and raising test. scores in math and in reading right that. consensus which was not really. controversial has fallen apart with. President Trump's Republican. party the new highest value is not. raising test scores not holding schools. accountable but giving as much control. as possible to individual.

parents and in many ways Kim this is a. vision that is at odds with the very. reason the Department of Education was. founded to begin. [Music]. with we'll be right. back so Dana I imagine that when any new.

Administration comes in the priorities. of each department will change a little. or or even a lot but it sounds like what. you're saying with regards to Trump and. the Department of. Education is that something much deeper. and much more fundamental is going on. here help me understand how we got here. so the federal government has played a. role in education since the 19th century. researching education trying to. disseminate best practi practices for.

how teachers can do their jobs better. but there was no Federal Department of. Education as a separate cabinet agency. until. 1979 and the idea was controversial it. was signed into law by President Jimmy. Carter but even some Democrats opposed. the idea they didn't think it was. necessary to have a whole separate. bureaucracy to deal with education. issues and for President Ronald Reagan. the Department of Education was a huge. sign of Al bloat and he constantly.

talked about abolishing it however over. the decades the Department of Education. really became part of the firmament in. Washington and enjoyed plenty of support. from both Republicans and Democrats and. that's because the programs that it. works on like pel grants that help. students pay for college and money for. disabled students educational supports. public schools are really popular so.

essentially the Department of Education. got woven into the body politic as we. know it right yeah absolutely and for. many years this discussion which had. existed in the 70s and 80s about whether. we need it whether we want it had kind. of quieted down until the point under. the Republican President George W bush. in the early 2000s the Republican party. was really. United around the IDE a of a bigger.

Federal role in education public schools. are Americans great. hope and making them work for every. child is America's great Duty you know. one of the things it's helpful to. remember is that George W bush with his. idea of compassionate conservatism was. really focused on. education compassionate conservatism. places great. hope and confidence in public education. he had the idea that there was quote the.

soft bigotry the bigotry of low. expectations of low expectations for. many students in our nation's public. schools for lowincome students for Black. and Hispanic and Native American. students while all can enter our. schools many too many are not learning. there and he really wanted to push out. standardized tests into the nation's. schools so he could measure how kids. were doing and require teachers and.

principles to help kids do better the. new education reforms we have passed in. Washington give the federal government a. new role in public education this was. the law No Child Left Behind it is. conservative to let local communities. chart their own path to Excellence it is. compassionate to insist that every child. learns so that no child is Left. Behind which of course today is.

remembered for being really. controversial kind of draconian really. you yes because it required kids to take. tests every year in math and reading and. it threatened to punish schools if the. students didn't do well on the tests and. so it led to a lot of teaching to the. test and nobody likes that teachers. don't like that parents don't like that. right but it was a really big bipartisan. push under a Republican president to. strengthen the federal role in education.

so exactly the opposite of what's going. on now with President Trump I always. have an image in my mind of you know. what a big issue education was for. President George W bush you know he was. sitting on the morning of 911 2001. reading a book to public school students. and it it was part of his you know. General emphasis on education and it was. at that moment reading the book to the. children that an aid whispered in his. ear to inform him of the attack on the.

World Trade Center yeah that is an image. that is just seared into the minds of a. lot of. people okay so after George W bush we. come to Obama and what was his vision. for American public education yeah. President Obama agreed on a lot of the. fundamentals with President Bush he. agreed that the federal government. needed to hold schools accountable he. wanted to make those tests better and. higher quality but he also added some.

additional pressure around them he. created incentives for states to. evaluate teachers according to how well. their individual students did on those. tests so in other words whether you got. a you know a positive or negative. employee evaluation at the end of the. year would be based around this that was. also incredibly controversial but it's. just notable to talk about how. Republican and Democratic presidents for. many years were really in support of a. big Federal role okay so what happened.

what changed yeah so what happened is. that under President Bush and President. Obama all of this emphasis on. standardized testing really became super. unpopular Democrats hated it Republicans. hated it teachers hated it parents hated. it and that's why for years uh I have. called on Congress to come together and. get a bipartisan effort to fix No Child. Left Behind so in 2015 a Christmas. miracle a bipartisan Bill signing right.

here President Obama signed a law that. was passed by Congress called that every. student succeeds act the goals of No. Child Left Behind the predecessor of. this law were the right ones but in. practice it often fell short and it. rolled back a lot of this Federal. pressure around teacher evaluation and. testing and it returned a lot of the. power over education to States and. school districts. it's not as if there weren't some.

significant ideological differences on. some of these issues no there were but. but I think that this is really a good. example of how bipartisanship can work. which was the status quo when President. Trump came into office for his first. term okay so how did we go from there to. where we are now so when President Trump. came into office for his first term he. appointed an education secretary the. billionaire philanthropist Betsy Deva. who really embodies the term that.

Republican politics have taken on. education Betsy Devas was not interested. in beefing up public education or. beefing up the Federal role she had two. main things cultural conservatism which. was a big interest of hers and also her. goal which she has said many times was. to get as much funding for public. schools as possible in the hands of. parents so they could make choices to go. to private school or homeschool their. kids.

and since then those ideas have only. become much more popular in Republican. politics and that's in large part. because of the co pandemic the fields. are empty the playground's deserted and. all across the United States school. buildings sit empty remember schools. were shut down in some parts of the. country for a year and a half many. parents were angry about. that and many parents when their kids. were doing remote learning from home and.

they watched what was being taught did. not like what they saw parents rights. activists say they oppose critical race. Theory and explicit books in school. curriculum so the parental rights or. parent empowerment movement really took. off over the past 5 years don't mess. with America's moms does that make sense. I know groups like moms for liberty for. example was crusading against you know. what they saw as woke liberal ideology.

about race I will sign a new executive. order to cut Federal funding for any. school pushing critical race Theory. transgender insanity or teaching. students about transgender identities. and other inappropriate racial sexual or. political content on our. children president Trump you know. astutely observed that this was a. powerful cultural movement in addition I. am proud to have laid out by far the.

most aggressive most Visionary plan to. liberate our children from the Marxist. lunatics and perverts who have infested. our educational system they're. perverts and in his campaign for. president in 2024 he embraced all of. this and I will defend I can't even. believe I have to say this I will defend. parental rights can you believe. it and he has become a more. sophisticated we think in the second.

term and actually using the federal. government to achieve these. [Applause]. goals okay Dana you told us about the. investigations the Department of. Education has already opened so Trump is. actually embracing the powers of the. Department of Education even as he's. talking about eliminating it absolutely. Kim that is the fundamental.

contradiction here even as he talks a. lot about wanting to dismantle or even. abolish the Federal Department of. Education inside the building with his. new education secretary Linda McMahon. they are hard at work using the. investigative powers of this agency in a. muscular way to achieve these sort of. culture War goals and I think where this. could all end up is that he can. drastically cut this agency he can strip.

it down he can reduce it and dismantle. it and roll some of its responsibilities. over to other parts of the federal. government but he can keep a core sort. of heart of the agency in place that. will help him pursue his goals and. fulfill his agenda this feels like a big. change and for many parents who send. their kids to Public Schools is this. should they strap in for a radical shift.

in what public school is in America so I. don't think that there will be much. immediate impact on public school. students across the country or Educators. in K12 schools and the reason is as we. discussed the 10% of K12 public school. funding that does come from the federal. government is guaranteed to keep flowing. unless congress makes a major change and. we don't see that of happening right now.

but I do think that understanding where. president Trump's Republican party is on. education does indicate where state and. local education policy may be going. because Republicans across the country. share these goals and this by the way. was all telegraphed in Project 2025. remember that conservative blueprint. that came out during the campaign for. what should be done in in president. Trump's second term in the project 2025.

report they lay out a clear plan for. completely abolishing the federal role. in K12 education over the course of 10. years right now we're just at the. beginning of the process that they. Envision however if president Trump's. movement is successful if they keep. winning elections if he can bring. republicans in Congress. along with his vision it is possible.

that down the line we really would see a. vast reduction in federal support for. public education and remember that's. going to most impact lowincome students. and students with disabilities because. that's where the money is. going right now we're still pretty far. from that 84% of American children are. in traditional Public Schools but. president Trump's actions on education. over the past weeks and months may clear.

he is driving toward a drastically. different vision for education in. [Music]. America Dana thanks for coming on the. show thank you. [Music]. Ken we'll be right back. [Music].

here's what else you should know. today on Sunday Canada's resurgent. Liberal Party chose a new leader Mark. Carney to succeed Justin Trudeau and to. take over the country's response to an. ugly trade war with the United States. carne's a business executive who's never. held elected office in his acceptance. speech he took direct aim at president. Trump by rejecting Trump's call for.

Canada to become America's 51st state. America is not. Canada and Canada never ever will be. part of America in any way shape or. form and by declaring that Canada would. not shrink from a fight over tariffs we. didn't ask for this fight the Canadians. are always ready when someone else drops. the gloves so the Americans they should. make no mistake in trade as in hockey.

Canada will win Carney will become Prime. Minister in the coming days and is. expected to quickly call for an election. to ride the wave of anti-trump sentiment. that's energized the liberal party in. recent days the race against Canada's. conservative party is expected to be. close. [Music]. today's episode was produced by Eric.

krupy cydney Harper and Nina Feldman it. was edited by Devon Taylor research. assistance by Susan Lee contains. original music by Pat mccusker Diane. Wong Alicia baup and Marian Lozano and. was engineered by Alysa Moxley our theme. music is by Jim brunberg and Ben. lansberg of wonderly. [Music].

that's it for the daily I'm Kim Severson. see you tomorrow. [Music].