Trump Shocks Europe

from The New York Times I'm Rachel. Abrams this is the. [Music]. daily a few days ago the Trump. Administration began blowing up. America's existing approach to ending. the war between Russia and Ukraine by. embracing Russia and snubbing Ukraine. and that shift has quickly turned into a. broader assault on America's. relationship with. Europe today Moscow bureau chief Anton.

trnovski on how it's all adding up to a. stunning victory for Vladimir Putin and. a major setback for the once Ironclad. alliance between the US and. Europe it's Monday February. [Music]. 17th so Anton during the presidential. campaign Donald Trump vowed to end the. war in Ukraine and this past week he has.

turned his attention to that conflict. but in a way that has been really. scrambling the picture not just for. Ukraine not just for Russia but really. for all of Europe so tell us what that. has looked like from your. perspective I mean it's been a really. extraordinary week when it comes to the. Ukraine war the transatlantic. relationship and US kind of all. discovering what Trump's second term in. office is really going to mean in terms.

of foreign policy because it already. feels so different from his first term. the first hint that something was going. to change came early last week when. surprisingly the Russians released Mark. Fogle an American school teacher who had. been in jail in Russia to get him out. Steve witkoff Trump's Middle East Envoy. actually flew to Moscow and then later. brought him home on his plane that was.

the first time that a senior American. official had traveled to Russia since. before the war so that was the first. thing that happened then on Wednesday. Trump speaks to Putin on the phone it. was a 90-minute call according to the. Russians and just the mere fact of this. call was really remarkable it was the. first time that we know of that an. American president spoke to the Russian. leader since Russia invaded Ukraine.

three years ago right because Biden's. strategy was to isolate Putin both. diplomatically and economically to put. pressure on him yeah exactly it was. about sanctions it was about don't talk. to Putin show Russia that the fact that. it launched Europe's biggest war of. aggression since World War II was. absolutely unacceptable and made Moscow. a capital that was just not to be dealt. with diplomatic ically and in addition.

it was all about showing a United. Western Front the US under President. Biden was very very careful to. coordinate all of its steps with the. Europeans just to show Putin that he. wasn't going to be able to divide and. conquer when dealing with the west and. Trump's call which was clearly not. pre-coordinated with America's allies. broke that precedent as well so tell me. more about this call what did they talk. about.

so I think you really have to read. Trump's social media post about this. call to really see how remarkable it was. so Trump wrote that in this call he and. Putin both reflected on the great. history of our Nations and the fact that. we fought so successfully together in. World War II and then Trump added that. he and Putin had both agreed that they. want to stop the war in Ukraine and that. President Putin even used Trump's quote.

very strong campaign motto of Common. Sense and Trump writes on social media. after that call that he will then call. President vadir zalinski the Ukrainian. leader to inform him of that. conversation with Putin so first he. calls Putin and then he calls zalinski. to let him know how it went and what. they discussed wow so the message here. from Trump is really I'm going to sit.

down at the negotiating table I'm going. to make the decisions and then I will. inform you Ukraine of what I've decided. exactly which was yet another major. departure from the Biden. administration's approach the Biden. administration's philosophy that they. repeated over and over was nothing about. Ukraine without Ukraine and here Trump. threw that completely out the window and. what did zinski have to say about all. this so so he later said that he in his.

call with Trump that same day on. Wednesday he told Trump that Putin was a. liar someone you couldn't trust someone. who did not actually want peace and. someone who could deploy Russian troops. Beyond Ukraine at the same time zalinski. was saying publicly that a strong. America a strong Trump could pressure. Putin to make the kind of peace deal.

that Ukraine believes would be. sustainable so he really tried to kind. of put a positive spin on it but I think. it was pretty clear that just the speed. with which Trump appeared to embrace. making a deal with Putin to end the war. really caught everyone off guard. including Ukraine and that same day Pete. Heth the new US defense secretary gave a. speech in Brussels and what did he said. saying that speech well good afternoon.

friends this is my first Ukraine defense. contact group and I'm honored to join. all of you today this was really hex's. debut in Europe as the head of the. Pentagon and he was speaking to Nato and. European Defense ministers in Brussels. we want like you a sovereign and. prosperous. Ukraine but we must start by recognizing. that return to Ukraine's borders from.

before Putin annexed Crimea in 2014 was. quote anistic. objective a durable peace for Ukraine. must include robust security guarantees. to ensure that the war will not begin. again that. said the United States does not believe. that NATO membership for Ukraine is a. realistic outcome of a negotiated. settlement he also said it was.

unrealistic that Ukraine would join NATO. and he said that there will not be US. troops deployed to Ukraine if there were. to be a peace deal American troops would. not be part of any peacekeeping mission. to make sure Russia didn't invade again. president Trump looks forward to working. together to continuing this Frank. discussion amongst friends. and to achieve peace through strength.

together thank you so to step back for a. second all those things that Heth said. were you know something that many people. assumed behind closed doors but it was. just stunning to hear Heth make those. concessions publicly before any kind of. negotiation with Putin actually took. place already giving away the St exactly.

before you even got to talks and so. those concessions that hex Seth made. that put Europe into an incredibly tough. spot because how do you guarantee. Ukraine's security and deter A Renewed. Russian invasion at some point down the. road if the US isn't involved you know. Russia's military is huge compared to. any European country and obviously their.

nuclear Arsenal is is far greater than. anything that Europe has so that speech. really put into Stark. relief how much of a problem Europe was. going to have in finding a way to face. down Russia and Putin without the us at. its back how was all of this received. this call between Trump and Putin and. the heges. speech well I think it's fair to say. that in Moscow there was was quite a bit.

of elation in response the Russian stock. market was up more than 5% the ruble the. Russian currency strengthened you had. all these protin politicians posting on. social media about how like this was. such a big win for Russia and it showed. Putin's status as a brilliant foreign. policy strategist in Europe there was. both shock and confusion you know Pete. Heth tried to walk back parts of his. speech the next day Trump said that.

Ukraine would be involved in the talks. so on top of just the shock you also. just had people not really understanding. what exactly the approach of the. administration was going to be to Europe. to Nato and to Russia and Ukraine and. all of this was happening just before. the Munich security conference this big. annual Gathering of security officials.

started on Friday in Germany and JD. Vance the vice president was scheduled. to give a big speech so there was a lot. of Hope or at least expectation among. Europeans that Vance when he stepped up. to that Podium was going to clarify. where exactly the administration stood. on these issues. [Music].

we'll be right. [Music]. back so Anton you've just painted a. picture for us of how America's allies. are feeling really confused and. concerned in this moment and that there. was some hope that the vice president. would offer some clarity about Ukraine. did that happen. um it did not happen and uh the fact.

that it didn't was really yet another. stunning moment of last. week well thank you and uh thanks to all. the uh the gathered delegates and. luminaries and media professionals you. know Vance gives this speech at the. Munich security conference it's like. this massive event probably the most. high-profile security Forum globally. where you have tons of heads of state.

Prime Ministers defense ministers. foreign ministers in the audience we're. happy to be here and you know one of the. things that I wanted to to talk about. today is of course our shared values and. but instead of talking about Trump's. foreign policy he launches. into this extensive criticism of Europe. the threat that I worry the most about. Visa Europe is not Russia it's not China.

it's not any other external actor and. what I worry about is the threat from. within the retreat of Europe from some. of its most fundamental values values. shared with the United States of America. you know a Europe that in his telling. has departed from its Democratic roots. that they intend to shut down social. media during times of civil unrest the. moment they spot what they've just judg. to be quote hateful.

content it's actually a picture of. Europe that very much Echoes what we've. been hearing from Vladimir Putin over. the last few years you know he's long. been criticizing Europe for becoming to. woke for silencing speech and I really. do believe that allowing our citizens to. speak their mind will make them stronger. still which of course brings us back to. Munich where the organizers of this very.

conference have banned lawmakers. representing populist parties on both. the left and the right from. participating in these conversations now. again and you know and even more. remarkable was the fact that he was. doing this in Germany with the big. National German election less than two. weeks away and where the German farri. party is hoping to make big gains and of. course the German farri party the. alternative for Germany has been very. much ostracized across the political.

Spectrum in Germany for its links to. Neo-Nazi ideology and its attempts to. whitewash the Nazi past if you're. running in fear of your own voters there. is nothing America can do for you nor. for that matter is there basically the. vice president of the United States is. saying to his European allies. long-standing European allies that. Russia isn't the problem here you are. exactly and Vance here is signaling the.

possibility that America will no longer. be that key Ally of Western Europe and. the European Union that it was for all. those decades after the end of World War. II we shouldn't be afraid of our people. even when they express views that. disagree with their leadership thank you. all good luck to all of you God bless. you and on top of that we also learned.

during the Munich security conference. last weekend that the Trump. Administration does not expect Europe to. be at the table when peace talks around. Ukraine finally take place we heard from. Keith Kellog Trump's Envoy to Ukraine. say that the Trump Administration. expects Russia and Ukraine to be at the. table they expect the United States to. act as a mediator but that the Europeans.

probably won't be there and it's worth. pointing out that it would be pretty. striking for Europe to be excluded like. this you know they uh European countries. have contributed more than hundred. billion doar by some counts more than. the US has in total to Ukraine over the. last three years so they clearly have a. huge stake in this too okay basically it. sounds like Europe's out but Ukraine is. in well. maybe I mean there's so much uncertainty.

right now in fact we're actually. continuing to see signs that Ukraine's. involvement is in question just this. weekend we learned that uh three top us. officials Marco Rubio the Secretary of. State Mike Waltz The National Security. advisor Steve witkoff the Middle East. Envoy are all going to be in Saudi. Arabia to meet with Russian officials. about the war in Ukraine and for all we. know Ukraine. won't be there so in that sense it's not.

a surprise that when valdimir zalinski. was on Meet the Press on Sunday morning. he was insisting that Ukraine did need. to be involved okay but just to ask a. really basic question how do you end a. war in Ukraine without Ukraine at the. table well that's a great question um it. it is true Rachel that the US is. Ukraine's biggest Ally and zalinsky.

himself has said that if the US were to. pull its Aid it would be very difficult. for Ukraine to survive as an independent. country on the flip side Putin has also. made it very clear that he wants to be. talking to the US you know he sees. zelinsky's government as a puppet of. Washington so there is clearly space. here for conversations between the US. and Russia to happen it would just be. pretty shocking for those conversations.

to happen without Ukraine being a part. of them but the second issue is that. even if Russia and the US were to make a. deal here you know you would still need. Ukraine to agree to it you would need. Ukraine to agree to stop fighting and. zalinski has said very clearly that. Ukraine will not accept a deal that they. were not a part of in. negotiating so the big question if these.

negotiations get more serious is going. to be how do you thread the needle. between Putin's demands and what Ukraine. would need you know Putin is demanding. not just to keep the territory he. already has but he also wants influence. over Ukraine he wants Ukraine's military. to be limited and then on the other hand. zalinsky and the ukrainians are saying. they need security guarantees they need. assurance says that there will be a.

response if Putin were to try to invade. again down the road they need deterrence. against Russia and so how to thread the. needle between those two things that's. clearly going to be really hard and. that's what we'll be watching from. here so obviously we know what zalinski. thinks Ukraine wants and what Ukraine. needs but I'm curious about average. ukrainians do do we know know how they. feel about the war and peace talks and.

all of this well we know from our. colleagues in Ukraine that there's. extremely deep skepticism across Ukraine. that Putin can be seen as a goodfaith. negotiator at the same time you know if. you look at our colleagues reporting. from Ukraine you see there's intense. fatigue with the war there the war has. lasted almost 3 years now which would. have been just so unimaginable if we. think back to the beginning of 2022.

obviously tens of thousands of. ukrainians both soldiers and civilians. have died and so what you've also been. seeing over the last year or so in. Ukraine is a higher Readiness according. to the polls to make some kind of. compromise with Russia Anton I feel like. it's worth taking a step back here and. just Reckoning with what a headp. spinning week this has been we've. basically seen seen the United States.

Embrace Russia over its longstanding. allies yeah I mean it's it's still early. but you're right it really feels like a. moment where that world order that we. were all used to has has started to. crumble right most people listening to. this show have grown up in a world where. it's a given that the United States is. aligned with Europe yeah you know there. were clearly pretty major bumps along. the way that we can remember but I. struggle to remember a week like the one.

that we just saw where JD Vance Pete. Heth and Donald Trump himself just shook. the. foundations of that transatlantic. Alliance so. intensely and you know if you think back. to Putin and the beginning of his. invasion of Ukraine in many ways this is. kind of what he wanted to achieve you. know um before Putin started his.

invasion I don't know if you remember he. presented this ultimatum to the West. saying NATO needed to withdraw from. Eastern and Central Europe and really. give Russia its European sphere of. influence back at the time that seemed. like a ludicrous demand the West. dismissed it out of hand but here we are. 3 years later and really kind of talking. about many of the things that Putin. demanded. [Music].

look M make no mistake the cost of all. this to Russia has been just. extraordinary maybe a 100,000 or more. Russians have died something like a. million have fled the country the. economy has been stretched to its. Breaking Point obviously just the moral. cost of having started Europe's biggest. war of aggression since World War II is. hard to Fathom but if Putin through. these peace talks is able to settle the.

war more or less on his terms that'll be. something he presents as a big victory. and an even bigger Victory will be if at. the end of all this he gets the US to. walk away from. [Music]. Europe Anton thank you so much thank you. Rachel. [Music].

we'll be right. back here's what else you need to know. today on Sunday lawyers for president. Trump asked the Supreme Court to let him. fire the head of a federal agency that. safeguards whistleblowers and enforces. certain ethics laws the move is the. first test of the White House's broader. challenge to limits on presidential. Authority and the ability of a president. president to fire the leaders of.

independent agencies that are meant to. be insulated from. politics today's episode was produced by. Rob zipco Alex Stern and mooch zad it. was edited by Maria burn and Patricia. willins contains original music by Dan. Powell and Pat mccusker and was. engineered by Chris Wood our theme music. is by Jim brunberg and Ben lansberg of. wonderly special thanks to Steven AER.

that's it for the daily I'm Rachel. Abrams see you tomorrow. [Music].