Trump’s Immigration Crackdown Begins

from The New York Times I'm Michael. babbaro this is the. [Music]. daily today at the heart of President. Trump's flurry of executive orders was a. systematic dismantling of the country's. current approach to. immigration I spoke with my colleague. hammed Ali aiz about what the orders do.

and the message that they. send it's Wednesday January. [Music]. 22nd Hamed thank you for coming in the. studio here in Washington which is. Studio might be a little grandiosa word. for what this is sure kind of a closet. yeah yeah but it's It Gets a Job Done. you have spent the past 24 hours or so. studying president Trump's EX I orders.

on immigration and what exactly they. seek to accomplish so with the benefit. of that huge amount of time you've had. to study this how are you thinking about. them individually and collectively to me. it seems like President Trump is. cramming basically four years of policy. into one day one half day one half day. when you look back at the first Trump. Administration it took them a long time. to introduce policies like remain in.

Mexico or you know trying to strip. federal funds from Sanctuary cities ban. Asylum all of that happened on Monday. night within a matter of hours and how. would you describe the ultimate goal of. all these things he crammed into this. first half day this was a way for. president Trump to reimagine uh our. immigration system to crack down on the. system as a whole uh the ability of. people to come to this country legally. illegally and many ways to make it more.

uncomfortable for people who are already. in this country unlawfully you know to. to have them rethink whether or not this. is worth it worth it yeah the right. place for them to be and I think at the. center of it it's a condemnation really. of the Biden administration's policies. what Trump saw what Steven Miller what. many in that circle saw was President. Biden opening the borders making it too. easy for people to enter this country. and remain indefinitely and and allow.

them to work and live and have no. consequences for being you know in the. country unlawfully right and just as a. factual statement under President Biden. undocumented immigration in the United. States reached record levels so there's. some basis for that complaint so let's. talk about the orders that Trump issued. on Monday relating to immigration so. where should we start one of the first. things that President Trump did did is.

to get rid of a program that bid. Administration put into place in. 2023 trying to change the way people. were entering the country at the. southern border at some point during the. Biden Administration they realized that. the current status quo was not working. tens of thousands of people were. crossing the border seeking Asylum and. were being allowed to stay in the. country indefinitely they saw this as a. major problem and incentive for more.

people to come and to cross so they. thought one way to handle this is to set. up a system through an app called cbp1. where people could schedule appointments. to enter the country at a Port of Entry. but if you crossed a legally Asylum. access was no longer going to be you. know given to you got it so this app is. an effort to bring some order to the. chaos of the Border during the Biden. presidency totally the Biden.

Administration felt like they were. really providing a road map to stabilize. the Border you could either come this. way and you'd have a chance to stay in. the United States or you come illegally. and we're going to turn you back we're. going to deport you we're going to send. you back to your home country and does. this app end up. working well according to the Biden. Administration it does ultimately in the. the form of Border numbers the Border. numbers have been dropping throughout. 2024 uh after the Biden Administration. put in tough restrictions at the.

southern border on Asylum and paired it. with this app the numbers dropped. precipitously mhm as a point of. comparison you can look back to December. 2023 nearly 250,000 people crossed the. southern Border in that month alone in. that month alone and you see from there. to the end of December 2024 one year. later we're at 45 46,000 Crossings at. the southern border and on Monday.

president Trump shut down this app why. would president Trump shut down an app. that seemed to be accomplishing what. President Biden hoped it would do which. is to bring some. predictability to Asylum seeking and. border crossing at the US Mexico border. president Trump and Republicans. including Steven Miller saw this as a. another form of illegal immigration. these were people in their eyes who had. no other lawful way to enter the United. States through a Visa and if you look at. the number since early 2023 to the end.

of 2024 more than 900,000 people use. this app to enter the United States huh. so while the numbers may have gone down. overall once this app goes into place. there's still pretty big numbers by the. end of a year entering the United States. exactly Republicans felt like when. you're examining the the number of. arrests at the southern border every. month you need to add that total of. people who are entering using this app.

add that to the total of of arrests as. well the southern border to get a better. picture of what's happening at the. border so essentially Trump Steven. Miller those around them would say that. this app was a half measure an. unsuccessful solution to the problem of. border crossings and it was facilitating. illegal immigration H so what happened. once Trump ordered that the app be shut. down we saw pretty immediately people on. the ground in Mexico processing this.

news talking to our colleagues saying. they had this appointment they'd been. waiting for it for a long time and they. had no idea what was going to come next. what was going to happen to their cases. their ability to enter the United States. and according to a uh former Department. of Homeland Security official who I. spoke with as of Monday morning around. 30,000 people had appointments to enter. the country using this app and those. appointments are now. canceled is it right to think that what.

Trump accomplishes with this executive. order that shuts down this app is he's. effectively shutting down. Asylum well there's another order that. handles asylum in the southern border. what Trump does in this separate order. is to immediately say that there's an. invasion at our border and no longer can. we allow people to cross into this. country illegally and claim Asylum and. remain and Def initely what Trump's.

saying here is we're going to take the. deterrent approach we're going to tell. you no longer can you enter our country. illegally and have a chance to stay so. basically Trump is taking away the route. Biden had created to apply for Asylum. without Crossing into the country and. with this order he's saying because of a. surge of Asylum Seekers what he calls an. invasion we not replacing that with. anything asylum in effect is over.

exactly and how should we think about. the underlying logic of that I think. we've all come to understand that Asylum. as originally conceived is this concept. that you are living in a place where. life has become intolerably dangerous. perhaps you're on a government enemies. list perhaps gangs are threatening you. or someone in your family and at any.

moment it feels like your life may end. that's been a traditional way of. understanding why someone would apply. for Asylum and over the past eight years. it's felt like many coming to the United. States seeking Asylum are coming because. their economic circumstances in their. home countries are intolerable and the. system has been overwhelmed by a kind of. broader understanding of why someone's. seeking Asylum is is that essentially. what the Trump people are saying is that. the current system has encouraged too.

many people to invoke Asylum and as a. result the entire system has become. indefensible yeah exactly in the order. itself it details how our border system. is not equipped to process people to. analyze their backgrounds any potential. criminal history that they have and our. current system just does not work and to. be fair there is some bipartisan.

understanding of that I mean Democrats. have you know by and large come to that. conclusion as well the Biden. Administration echoed a lot of these. talking points of how the Asylum system. as it is currently at the southern. border is just not operable but they. offered these other Pathways like the. app right they still defended it in. principle Trump is saying don't even. bother doing that the the system just. needs to end yeah the system needs to. end and also it's it's important to. realize that and to note here that in.

federal law there is a provision that. says that no matter the way somebody. enters the United States they are able. to claim Asylum so this is something. that Advocates the ACLU and others will. point to when they inevitably Sue right. the Trump Administration is they'll say. this is in the law people have the. ability to claim Asylum whatever way. they enter the country what Trump is. saying is that it's worth trying to shut.

down our Southern border to stop this. really high flow of people entering the. country what he terms as an invasion. millions of people coming into the. country in recent years and he's looking. with his other executive orders for a. way to close the door on other Pathways. for immigrants who are seeking refuge in. this country closing those doors one by. one. [Music].

we'll be right. [Music]. back Hamed we've been talking about. Asylum and president Trump's plans to. shut that down in multiple ways how else. is using these early executive orders to.

stop foreigners from trying to enter the. United States yeah president Trump has. directed the DHS secretary to. immediately shut down a Biden era. program that allowed immigrants from. Cuba Haiti Venezuela and Nicaragua to. fly into the country through something. called humanitarian parole and just. explain what humanitarian parole is and. how it fits into Biden's approach to. immigration President Biden saw this as.

a way to allow people a different way to. enter the country and to avoid taking. this long journey through Mexico. entering the country illegally putting. their lives in the hands of Smugglers so. kind of like the app exactly and and at. that time in 2023 the Biden. Administration was struggling mightily. with crossings from migrants from these. countries so they wanted to give these. migrants a different way ENT the country.

and to avoid Crossing illegally they. thought this would be a solution to that. problem basically thinking was if. they're going to come anyway let's. create a more. legalish path for them exactly and I. think that there's almost a political. element involved with this program which. is to say to the American public don't. worry when this person enters the United. States they have a financial sponsor. that's going to take care of them M they. won't be living off the state this is a.

program that makes sense and they saw it. as a solution that was working how many. people used it more than 500,000 in two. years use this program H which is a lot. of people so in in Biden's mind this. recognizes a problem at the border finds. a way to deal with it I'm going to guess. that to Trump 500,000 people coming from. those countries is perhaps 500,000 too. many they saw this as a way uh for the. government to allow people who who had. no other route to the United States to.

fly into the country and to remain as. long as they wanted and so I think this. speaks to a lack of communication from. the Biden Administration from President. Biden explaining his approach he was. never able to do that in a really. succinct way and other people filled. that vacuum conservative Figures were. saying that the US government was. sponsoring people to fly into the United. States to come into your cities and this. just was not true got it and so far.

we've talked about Biden eror programs. that President Trump has shut down but. he also moved to close off other. programs that preceded President Biden. and that were supported on a bipartisan. basis what's an example of an executive. order that did that President Trump. decided to pause suspend our Refugee. admissions program as of next Monday. January 27th the program will be shut. down and uh in the next 90 days the. Department of Homeland Security will.

have to deliver a report to president. Trump in which they say whether or not. it's necessary for president Trump to. bring back the refugee program and. whether that's in the National interest. of the United States can you just. distinguish for those of us who maybe. pretend we know but really don't the. distinction between someone seeking. Asylum and a refugee yeah a refugee is. applying for entry into the United. States from abroad they are often times. in a third country country in a refugee.

camp they've gone to the United Nations. and they've said I'm a refugee that. kickstarts a process that can take. upwards of two years where they're. vetted by the United States they go. through all kinds of health and Security. checks and they're waiting for a long. time to enter the country but if they do. at that point they get a pathway to US. citizenship M for all intenses purposes. it's a legal pathway it's legal. immigration to the United States so this. is quite different from someone coming.

into the US and seeking Asylum how many. refugees has the US LED in over the past. few years under the Biden Administration. it took them four years to rebuild the. refugee system that President Trump. dismantled his first time in office by. the end of the B Administration last. year they had allowed around 100,000. refugees H this is the highest total in. 30 years wow and this isn't something. that's. you know historically democrat or.

republican if you look back to President. Bush before he handed over the White. House with President Obama he allowed in. over 60,000 refugees this is a. bipartisan supported program but for. trump it represents a potential security. threat and the way he's talked about it. is you know these are immigrants from. areas like the Middle East uh Syria and. other places Sudan who could potentially. be a threat to the United States I mean.

these are talking points that he comes. back to repeatedly and in the order. itself president Trump cites the fact. that our country is taking too many. immigrants and we're not equipped to. take more immigrants including refugees. this is not the time for cities like. Denver New York and other places to take. immigrants even if they're refugees so. far we're talking about executive. actions designed to keep people from. coming to the US but of course the order.

that has probably gotten the most. attention so far does something. different it affects those already. inside the United States yeah the. birthright citizenship executive action. by President Trump was far more sweeping. than I expected than we expected H how. so the way it works right now is when. you are born in the United States you. automatically get US citizenship right. citizenship exactly this is the way.

we've long understood US citizenship in. the United States we look to the 14th. Amendment which ensures this right but. president Trump is completely changing. that he's making it so if your mother. was here in the country unlawfully or. was here with a temporary visa and your. father did not have US citizenship or a. green card no longer can you be. considered a US citizen right a pretty. bold thing to do given that it's in the.

Constitution exactly and president Trump. and some Republicans saw this as an. incentive for immigrants to enter the. country unlawfully and be able to have. their children get US citizenship and. this is something that they believe no. longer should be a thing in the United. States so the motivation behind this is. to take away Birthright citizenship as a. deterrence because it has been in. Trump's mind a lure a draw for people to.

come here have a child in the United. States that becomes a citizen taking it. away would take away that incentive if. you look at all these orders together. it's a lot of deterrence a lot of making. people uncomfortable or here in the. United States unlawfully or temporarily. and this is just another way to do that. of all Trump's executive orders this one. would seem like it has the steepest. legal Hill to climb and perhaps. deterrence is so primarily the goal that.

he doesn't mind if it gets legally. challenged but we should assume that. this is going to be legally challenged. and that it might successfully be. legally challenged perhaps alongside. many of these executive orders this is. the one that so far has inspired the. most lawsuits of all the executive. orders so far lawsuit already we've seen. several lawsuits States across the. country on Tuesday including New York uh. cities like San Francisco have filed.

lawsuits over this executive action so. they're already being inundated with. legal challenges the question is what. happens when this inevitably gets to the. Supreme Court it is kind of hard to get. over the fact that it is in the US. Constitution and is something that most. people have recognized as a fact as as. Just The Way of the way things work in. the United States I want to put all. these orders together and think about. the collective. impact taking away this app that gave.

people appointments to seek Asylum. ending essentially Asylum itself ending. the refugee program ending the. humanitarian parole program and. Birthright citizenship and that of. course is on top of Trump's promise to. undertake mass deportations in the. coming days and. weeks as you're hinting at it's hard to. imagine a stronger message to anyone. seeking to come to the United States.

then it's essentially pointless and. futile and you shouldn't do it and we're. going to make in your words The. Experience very uncomfortable and what's. clear is that poll after poll shows that. Americans believe the country has been. allowing too many migrants into the. country and Trump now has a mandate to. do something about it he has been. calling this a revolution of common. sense for many Americans many of these. orders might look like just that because.

Biden seem to be taking smaller half. measure versions of the same actions. president Trump clearly feels embolden. to take aggressive action and crack down. on our immigration system oftentimes. when you speak to voters across the. country this comes up almost every time. every single time people see this. immigration system as chaos and they. want some tightening some control and.

what Trump is saying is this is the time. to do that this is the time to shut it. down in many ways but the question is. will that work right this is going to be. a real test of whether or not deterrence. Works what the Biden folks saw was if we. incentivize people to take legal. Pathways come through the app come. through humanitarian parole or through. the refugee system then we in advise. people not to cross illegally and the.

numbers did after reaching record levels. come down exactly you're saying the. question is if you start to foreclose. the legal pathways are you actually. incentivizing perhaps unintentionally a. return to higher levels of illegal and. more dangerous Crossings it'll be a. question of whether or not this. communication of mass. deportations of no more Birthright. citizenship of of closing down Asylum.

and shutting down our borders whether or. not that will inspire people to go back. to their home countries stay in Mexico. or whether they'll be incentivized to. cross the country and try to come into. the United States undetected and avoid. any law enforcement noticing them right. and it will be some time before we have. an answer to that but beyond the. question of of of whether or not the. numbers go up or down in the next couple. of weeks what Trump is doing here would. seem to fundamentally change the United.

States relationship with those seeking. to come here and I'm remembering a. conversation that I had with one of our. colleagues Julie Davis during Trump's. first term about this same set of. questions and the formulation she came. up with is that when it comes to. immigration Biden and and Democrats many. of them in this moment see it as a. question of what immigrants bring to the.

United States and the United States's. role as a refuge Trump and and many. Republicans in this moment see it very. differently as a question of what. immigrants take from the United States. and the Damage that they are causing to. it and to its citizens exactly it's. almost like the story that Americans and. America has told itself is that we're a. place of.

Refuge we're a place that takes in. people who are fleeing these really. dangerous conditions and Trump is. seeking to remake that idea and say it's. time for Americans to think about. themselves and if we don't have a border. like he said repeatedly we don't have a. country and what we now know is that. tens of millions of Americans agree with. that idea.

[Music]. mammed thank you very much we appreciate. it thank you for having. me as of Tuesday night Attorneys General. from 22 States had sued president Trump. in federal court in an effort to block. his executive order ending Birthright. citizenship in the lawsuits the. officials called the order quote. extraord Ary and.

extreme meanwhile I ask you to have. mercy Mr President on those in our. communities whose children fear that. their parents will be taken. away and that you help those who are. fleeing War zones and persecution in. their own. lands to find compassion and welcome. here during a church service at the. National Cathedral attended by Trump and. his vice president JD Vance Bishop. marann Edgar buddy the the leader of the. Episcopal dicese of Washington appealed.

directly to Trump to show Mercy on. immigrants Our God teaches us that we. are to be. merciful to the. stranger for we were all once. strangers in this. land Trump repeatedly grimaced as she. spoke and after returning to the White. House from the cathedral criticized the. bishop saying quote I didn't think it.

was a good. service we'll be right. [Music]. back here's what else you need to know. today on Tuesday several of those. sentenced to the longest prison terms. for their role in the January 6th. assault on the US capital were released.

because of President Trump's blanket. Pardons and. commutations among those set free were. Stuart rhods of the oathkeepers militia. who was serving 18 years for seditious. conspiracy and Joseph bigs of The Proud. boys who was serving 17 years for the. same charge in Congress lawmakers who. had run for their lives to escape the. riers in 201 20 were split in their.

reactions to Trump's pardons Democratic. leaders condemned them as a Brazen Act. of lawlessness while Republican leaders. largely avoided the. topic today's episode was produced by. Carlos priato and Michael Simon Johnson. it was edited by Peach cowt and Maria. burn contains original music by Dan. Powell and was engineered by Chris Wood. our theme music is by Jim brunberg and.

Ben Lansford of. [Music]. Wonderland that's it for the daily I'm. Michael. borro see you tomorrow. [Music].