Trump's Abortion Dilemma

from The New York Times I'm Sabrina. tavernes and this is the. [Music]. daily by the time his first term was. over Donald Trump had cemented his place. as the most anti-abortion president in. US history now facing political blowback. he's trying to change that. reputation today my colleague AER on.

whether Trump's election year pivot can. [Music]. [Applause]. work it's Wednesday April. [Music]. 10th Lisa welcome back to the show. thanks for having me so Lisa this week. Donald Trump weighed in on one of the. most contentious American social issues. of our time and one that has of course.

been right at the center of American. politics and that is abortion this is a. topic you know very deeply and very well. so we wanted to have you on the show to. talk about what Trump said and what it. means for the presidential campaign well. this was a really anticipated statement. Trump in his classic trumpian way had. been sort of teasing it that he was. going to come out with where he stood on. abortion and so he comes out with this. statement bright and early Monday. morning.

and he had three main points that he. really ran through in his remarks which. were posted on his social media Network. Tru social under my leadership the. Republican party will always support the. creation of strong thriving and healthy. American families he starts out by. talking about the Republican Party being. the party of families and this was. really a way to talk about IVF which of. course are the fertility treatments and. that became a major topic of the. national conversation after Alabama had.

a Court ruling that would have really. limited access to those treatments I. strongly support the availability of IVF. for couples who are trying to have a. precious baby what could be more. beautiful or better than that today I'm. pleas there's very few things that the. country is Unified around right now and. support for IVF is one of them so Trump. comes out and says that he too supports. those treatments he believes access to. them should be kept open and free so. that was his first point then many. people have asked me what my position is.

on abortion and abortion rights he moves. into the abortion part of his remarks. especially since I was probably the. person responsible for the ending of. something that and the first thing he. does is take credit for ending Rie Wade. which is of course the decision that. created a constitutional right to. abortion I want to thank the six. justices Chief Justice John Roberts. Clarence Thomas Samuel Alo Brett kavanau. Amy Tony Barrett and Neil Gorsuch.

incredible people and then he moves to. what he sees as his future thoughts. where the country should go in this new. post row ERA this 50-year battle over. roie Wade took it out of the federal. hands and brought it into the hearts. minds and vote of the people in each. state was really something and what he. basically says is that it should be left. to the States now it's up to the states. to do the right thing like Ronald Reagan. I am strongly in favor of exceptions for.

rape incest and life of the mother you. must follow your heart of this issue but. he expresses support that bans should. include exemptions for rape incest in. the life of the mother if a woman falls. into any of those three categories she. should be allowed to get an abortion at. the end of the day it's all about will. of the people that's where we are right. now and that's what we want the will of. the people but the most striking thing. about this four-minute video was perhaps. the issue that he didn't mention at all.

the issue he left out which is this. question of a 15-week federal ban. practically since the fall of row since. the do's case overturn that right the. anti-abortion movement has been pushing. to get Republicans to line up behind. this idea of a 15we federal ban. effectively a restriction that would. cover the entire country so in the 30 or. so states that allow abortion past that. point in pregnancy they would no longer. be allowed to do that all abortion. across the country would be criminalized.

after 15 weeks so huge change for blue. States all over the place a huge change. for blue States some swing States even. some more conservative states that. haven't passed these more restrictive. total. bans Trump has been wishy-washy on the. issue for two years or so he's sort of. dangled that maybe he would get behind. this push and support a 15we federal ban. but he never quite committed to it and. what we see in this video is that he's. still not committing to it he doesn't.

say if such legislation came to his desk. he doesn't say whether he would sign it. but what the anti-abortion movement. hears in this is that he will not be. advocating for this policy so he's in. essence pulling away from what the. mainstream of the anti-abortion movement. wants right this Federal ban but how. should we understand what he's doing. here like what's he up to well what he's. trying to do is win the election that's. what trying to do here I mean abortion.

is a hugely important issue this race. Democrats hope it will be the issue that. could Define and decide this election. since the right to an abortion was. overturned it transformed American. politics in some ways it created this. Coalition of pro-abortion Rights voters. who have turned out for Democrats again. and again they've turned out in the. midterms they've turned out in small. sort of State Legislative elections. they've turned out in gubernatorial. races in 2023 and Trump knows that and.

so what we're seeing him do is to try to. find a path through this issue that he. believes has been damaging to. Republicans and what he's attempting to. do with this statement is sort of defang. some of the democratic power some of. this energizing force that abortion. rights has become for Democrats in. American politics but that's a pretty. sharp pivot right I mean this is the. president who takes credit for. overturning row after all and now he's. trying to tack back to the middle.

it is a pivot but it's not all that. surprising of one this is a politician. who unlike probably anyone else in. American public life has taken just. about every position on abortion someone. could have throughout his. [Music]. career would president Trump ban partial. birth abortion well look I'm I'm very. pro-choice I hate the concept of. abortion when he first started flirting. with the presidential run back in the. late '90s he went on TV and said he was.

very pro-choice but you would not ban it. no or ban partial birth of no I would I. would I am I am pro-choice in every. respect and as far as it goes but I just. hate. it just very. briefly I'm. prolife a decade or so later he became. pro-life before an audience of. conservatives uh I've evolved on many. issues over the years years and you know.

who else has is Ronald Reagan evolved on. many issues and I am Pro lifee and if. you look at and then in 2016 when he ran. he was never the candidate of the. anti-abortion crowd they didn't trust. him they knew how he had moved on their. issue many of them voted for other. candidates but he won over the rank and. file Conservative Christian voters and. they extracted during that campaign a. series of promises from him I am. pro-life and I will be appointing.

pro-life judges I would think most. significantly was that he would appoint. what he called pro-life judges do you. want to see the court overturn well if. we put another two or perhaps three. justices on that's really what's going. to be H that's will happen and that'll. happen automatically in my opinion. because I am putting pro-life justices. on the. court and he got elected and he changed. the composition of the Court to a more.

socially conservative bent for a. generation he worked to defund Planned. Parenthood and by the time he ran again. in 2020 the anti-abortion movement was. calling him the most pro-life president. in history and he didn't win but he. turned out millions of Christian. conservative voters behind him right and. so Trump leaves office in 2021 and then. a year later all of those appointments. he made to the court give the. anti-abortion movement really its. biggest win in generation.

the overturning of roie Wade his promise. to appoint those pro-life judges as he. put it bears fruit in a massive way in a. way that outpaced even what the. anti-abortion movement had hoped for. when they first extracted those promises. for Trump back in. 2016 but what they didn't see coming on. either side of the abortion debate was. how quickly the politics would. transform that's when we saw this. historically energizing issue for. Republicans become really a much more. motivating issue for Democrats and.

Independence I think the Republicans. speak very inarticulately about this. subject and when Trump saw those. politics change he began criticizing the. anti-abortion movement and their leaders. I watch some of them without the. exceptions etc etc I said you other than. certain parts of the country you can't. you're not going to win on this issue. but you will win as pushing for. restrictions that were really just he. felt a little bit too harsh he blamed.

them for Republican defeats in the 2022. midterms and so he expressed some views. that this was an issue abortion that. even though he was happy to take credit. for putting those justices in who. overturned row that the politics of this. issue how it All Shook out in the post. row world was hurting Republicans and. was a political loser so in other words. throughout his career he's followed the. political wins on abortion exactly for. the anti-abortion movement this is a.

spiritual Quest the effort to end. abortion is an effort to write what they. see as a moral wrong in American life. for Trump like so many things this is. politics this is transactional he'll. give the anti-abortion movement this and. they'll give him his votes it's not. about morality it's about politics it's. not about morality it's about politics. it's about winning votes it's about. cting interest groups and building his. Coalition and so that long history of. back and forth of transactional politics. of flip-flopping that all really leads.

us to this. [Music]. moment at the end of the video he says. always go by your heart but we must win. we have to win we have to win and that's. basically Trump's views on abortion in a. nutshell he's kind of saying the quiet. part out loud right like this isn't. about abortion it's about winning votes. and if this issue isn't going to win me. votes I'm ditching it that's exactly. right and that of course leads to a more. essential question which is will his.

political gamble to chart this middle. path well will it. [Music]. work we'll be right. back so Lisa Trump is making a BET right. that not going all in on the abortion. issue is a smart move politically help. me understand how exactly he thinks this. will help him win well we don't know.

exactly what he's thinking but what he's. clearly trying to do is create a. political position that allows moderates. who may want to support him but also. support abortion rights to cast their. votes for him I spend a lot of time. talking to voters about their views on. abortion and their views are complicated. often more complicated than you can get. at in survey questions this is an issue. that's really intimate it's really. personal and so you have a lot of. Republicans mostly more moderate. Republicans who support some form of.

abortion rights it's more than 40% by. some surveys and so what Trump is trying. to do here is make it okay for people. with these complicated views about. abortion to vote for him even if they do. support abortion rights he's saying look. I'm not with the party that wants to do. all this extreme stuff I actually have a. more moderate view if you are kind of a. moderate on the abortion issue I'm your. guy that's exactly right and this is. important because while these voters who.

are Republican but support some form of. abortion rights across the country. they're more concentrated in these. really crucial swingy Battleground. Suburban districts places like Suburban. Phoenix or Suburban Milwaukee and. support in those kinds of places won. Biden the election in 2020 that was a. big reason why he was able to win the. White House so what Trump is trying to. do is ensure that he can while maybe not. totally win those places at least cut. into Biden's strength in those areas and.

also allow those voters to think about. issues that he believes are more. favorable for Republicans immigration or. inflation or crime let them vote on. those issues by neutralizing in his mind. this question about abortion rights. right got it but where does that leave. his base though I mean doesn't this. position alienate them well so what. Trump is calculating here is that his. base is with him anyhow conservative. Christians are behind his bid just as. they have been since 2016 these are.

people who have stuck with him through. all of it not just the loss in 2020 but. January 6 the indictments his current. legal Peril a lot of these conservative. Christians are still with him and. they're going to vote for him regardless. of what he says about abortion now also. because they're still giving him credit. for accomplishing this really big thing. that was in fact the thing the. overturning of row and you could really. see that in the statements that. anti-abortion leaders and groups put out.

responding to this video people like. margerie danfelter who leads a really. big anti-abortion group you know some of. them took issue with what Trump said. some of them didn't like that he didn't. support any kind of federal action. particularly a federal ban but none of. them said that they wouldn't be voting. for him in November and in fact many of. the leaders in the group said that they. would continue to work tirelessly to. defeat Biden okay so this is Trump's. political Gambit he's hoping that most. of his base actually stays with him and.

he's trying to win over some of the. voters in the middle what do his. colleagues within the Republican Party. make of all of this well for people like. Senator Lindsey Graham like former vice. president Mike Pence people who really. had opposition to abortion as a defining. cause a central cause of their political. career they came out and said they. didn't like this at all for them the. fall of constitutional abortion rights. was only the beginning they want to. eliminate abortion across the country so.

they need some kind of federal statute. and so they came out and they offered. some harsh criticism of trump saying. that he had abandoned this foundational. cause of the Republican party and Trump. he hit right back he went on his social. media Network true social and he. attacked Marjorie Dan felzer and Senator. Graham saying that they should study. State's rights in the 10th Amendment and. after they did they should get on with. helping Republicans elections rather.

than he said making impossible for them. to do so I mean he's doing a very trumpy. thing right he has that kind of bull in. a china shop upending these LGH held. Republican positions you know for so. long Republicans opposed abortion no. matter what like that was the default. position but Trump is saying hey the. politics have changed here guys we have. to change with them and for this handful. of Republicans who opposed what he said. there were plenty of Republicans.

particularly candidates in swing states. that quickly aligned themselves with. Trump's new position on this Cary Lake. the Republican Senate nominee in Arizona. and the Republican in Ohio and the Ohio. Senate race uh candidates in Michigan. thought that Trump had offered them a. new template a way to talk about this. issue that may defang some of the. political attacks against them that are. being launched by democrats interesting. so this is Maybe showing a way kind of.

out of the woods for swing state. Republicans on a pretty difficult issue. for Republicans well certainly giving. them a glimmer of hope that they can. find their way out well we don't know of. course is if it's going to work and. there's a lot of reasons why it may not. you know Trump is really trying to have. it both ways he wants credit for being. the president who appointed the justices. who overturned row but he also wants to. wash his hands of the political. ramifications of this issue and. Democrats are just not going to let him. do that his statement on Monday was met.

with a flood of democratic response. Biden put out a statement that campaign. hammered him and perhaps the most. impactful and and really Salient thing. the bid campaign did is they released a. new ad with a woman telling the story of. how after she lost her pregnancy she was. unable to get an abortion in Texas and. developed a severe infection that almost. killed her twice and now may make it. impossible for her to ever have another. child. and it's a really personal heart.

stirring ad that really gets at why this. issue is just so difficult for. Republicans the stories are so intimate. they're so real and there's just a. steady drum be of them coming out of. these conservative States so as much as. Republicans want to talk about this in. this sort of distance way of states. rights versus Federal rights this is a. situation that is really real for a lot. of women in America and forcing them to. make really difficult medical and.

emotional choices so it continues to be. a very live very difficult issue for. Trump I mean you know saying it's should. be back to the States as you point out. doesn't mean that the issue goes away. the states are still passing these very. restrictive banss which are of course. made possible by the overturning of row. and these banss are at a national level. pretty unpopular correct and even if. republicans in Congress aren't taking. steps on this Republicans in state.

houses are moving forward we saw this in. Florida where the court upheld a 15we. ban that will next month be a six- we. ban on the procedure that issue will. then go to voters in November in the. form of a ballot measure and even as we. sit here right now recording this. episode in the studio we are waiting on. a decision from the Arizona Supreme. Court which is going to decide whether. the state's current ban on nearly all. abortions after 15 weeks stays in place. or become something even more. restrictive so this is just a very live.

issue and it's something that continues. to dominate headlines and continues to. be top of mind for a lot of American. voters and particularly American. women and look I think what Donald Trump. really wanted to do with this video was. take abortion off the table sort of. neutralize it for the election but. whatever Trump wants this issue is not. going anywhere it's something that's. going to continue to dominate through. this presidential race and potentially. [Music].

Beyond Lisa thank you thank you for. having. [Music]. me on Tuesday afternoon Arizona's. Supreme Court ruled that an abortion ban. originally enacted in. 1864 but dormant for decades under roie. Wade is now. enforceable the near total ban in the. critical swing state makes no exceptions. for rape or incest. President Biden immediately seized on it.

calling it cruel and saying that it was. the result of quote the extreme agenda. of Republican elected. [Music]. officials we'll be right. [Music]. back here's what else you should know. today on Tuesday Jennifer and James. Crumbley whose teenage son perpetrated.

the deadliest school shooting in. Michigan's history were sentenced to 10. to 15 years in. prison they had been convicted of. involuntary manslaughter for failing to. prevent their son Ethan from killing. four of his. classmates the historic sentencing makes. the crumblies the first parents in the. country to be convicted for the deaths. caused by their child in a mass shooting. prosecutors argued that the crumblies.

ignored warning signs and accused Mr. Crumbley of failing to secure the gun. his son used in the. shooting their son pled guilty to 24. charges including first-degree murder. and was sentenced last year to life in. prison without parole he did not testify. in either of his parents. trials today's episode was produced by. Rob zipco Luke Vander plug and Shannon.

Lynn with help from Summer tamod it was. edited by Lexi di with help from Michael. benois contains original music by Marian. Lozano Dan Powell Diane Wong and Pat. mccusker and was engineered by Chris. Wood our theme music is by Jim brunberg. and Ben Lanser of. [Music]. wonderly. [Music].

[Music]. that's it for the daily I'm Sabrina. tavernes see you. [Music]. tomorrow.