Trump Changes Course in Minneapolis

From the New York Times, I'm Michael. Bavaro. This is the daily. [music] Today, the story of how the. fallout from Alex Py's [music] death. forced President Trump to change course. in Minneapolis and the [music] debate. over whether those changes are real or. merely symbolic. I spoke with White. House reporters [music] Zolan Kano.

Youngs and Tyler Pager. [music]. It's Wednesday, January 28th. Zolan and Tyler, we are having this. conversation with you on Tuesday. afternoon at this moment when President. Trump has clearly decided to try to. telegraph that he wants to change course. or at least change the tone around his.

administration's immigration crackdown. in Minneapolis following the killing of. Alex Prey and all of the outrage it. inspired. And we're going to talk about. how meaningful or superficial that. change really is. But Tyler, let's first. talk through what's actually happened. behind the scenes in the days since. Freddy's death. >> So Michael, one of the interesting. things just about this weekend is that.

it's one of the rare weekends in the. winter where Donald Trump is in. Washington and not in Palm Beach, Florida at his club and residence, Mara. Lago. M. >> and the reason that Trump stayed in. Washington was because he was hosting a. special premiere at the White House for. the new documentary about his wife. Melania. >> Right. >> And so the president is spending a lot. of the weekend in the Oval Office and in. the dining room off the Oval Office. watching media coverage of what's going. on in Minneapolis and the shooting of.

Alex Prey. He spent a lot of the time. watching Fox News but flips around. channels. Another American citizen has. been shot dead by federal agents in. Minneapolis. The Trump administration is. defending the agent's actions this week. >> And just saw this caffany of voices. criticizing the response and the killing. of this man in Minneapolis. >> It should freak the American public out. that the Trump administration. lies this easily. will lie to your face.

when you can see the evidence for. yourself. >> He was called by the Trump. administration officials a domestic. terrorist when all he had in his hand. was a cell phone. >> Americans don't like what they're seeing. right now. Nobody likes feds coming into. their state. And so what's the goal. right now? >> [music]. >> And this criticism is notable and rare.

because it's not just Democrats and it's. not the usual loudest critics in the. Republican party that are pushing back. on him. >> Senator Bill Cassidy calling the. situation disturbing, writing, "The. credibility of ICE in DHS are at stake.". Senator, >> you've got Senator Bill Cassidy who said. on social media that the shooting was. incredibly disturbing. Tom Tillis called. for an investigation as well. That's. notable push back against this White. House, particularly a White House that.

demands loyalty from its party. And. beyond the Republican lawmakers, even. some sympathetic media figures like Fox. News hosts Trey Gaudy and Maria Barto. were also criticizing the rhetoric from. senior administration officials. >> Well, you you've collected the evidence, you said, right? You have the handgun in. your possession. >> That's right. And and how was he using that handgun in. terms of threatening Border Patrol? What. was the threat? He had his camera, right? He was filming it.

[music]. >> And Michael, that's to say nothing of. what Trump would have seen if he tuned. into MS Now or CNN. >> What do you see when you watch those. videos? >> An execution. An absolute execution. He. There's no Every angle shows it. and. they continued to fire bullets at him. while his body was lifeless on the. ground. >> where officials were saying that the. government basically gunned down this. man and bungled the response [music]. >> evidence. The lies do more than mislead.

They justify the unjustifiable and in. the absence of accountability from the. Department of Homeland Security, from. ICE, from Customs and Border Protection, it is up to us to hold on to the truth. >> [music]. >> Right. I caught some of that coverage. and it was basically the government has. murdered this man and then. systematically lied about what happened. in the face of video that very clearly.

contradicted it. >> Absolutely, Michael. And what the. president was concerned about was not. necessarily the incident itself. You. know, he was disturbed that a man had. been killed. But Michael, what he was. really worried about was that this. chaos, this narrative was overshadowing. all of the progress he felt he has made. on the issue of immigration enforcement. and the border with Mexico. These are.

issues that are core to his political. identity. And the president was talking. to aids and allies throughout the. weekend and venting about how the. narrative was being overtaken by this. use of force and by the killing of a man. and it was distracting from the message. that he wanted to be driving home which. was that he had sealed the border and he. was getting rid of in his parliament the. most violent undocumented immigrants in. the country. >> And when did we start to see him.

reacting accordingly? Late Sunday night, an interview with the Wall Street. Journal published with President Trump. in which he made somewhat measured. comments for him. He actually expressed. a willingness in an investigation into. this shooting and said that his. administration was reviewing the. shooting and that eventually they would. come out determination. These comments. are starkly different from the way the. president was talking about this. shooting even just 24 hours before.

Right. Right. In the initial aftermath, President Trump once again laid blame on. the victim. He attacked local leaders in. Minnesota. Now he's coming out and. actually saying that they want to take a. look at this. That is really different. than the usual reactionary defense we. see from President Trump when it comes. to anything really involving ICE or his. immigration agenda. >> Right. And it turns out that ends up. Tyler being kind of just the beginning.

of a pretty public pivot that I wonder. if you can keep describing here. Yeah, it starts very early Monday morning when. the president announces on True Social. that he's sending in Tom Hman, the White. House borders are from Washington to. Minneapolis to lead the operation. And a. few hours later, we learned that Greg. Bevino, a top border patrol official who. had been leading these operations all. over the country, would be leaving.

Minneapolis. And it's a clear sign that. changes are underway at least in terms. of personnel in response to this. horrible killing. >> And the Bavino departure, just to linger. on that for a minute, feels especially. notable because he had literally been on. the ground in Minneapolis very. unapologetically. defending the most aggressive tactics. that ICE and Border Patrol were using.

And because he had told the public. something that turned out to be. completely wrong about Alex Prey and. about his intent and his actions that. was very much contradicted by the videos. that emerged. And so suddenly it felt. like there were consequences for that. conduct. >> Absolutely, Michael. And I think you. know it wasn't just Bovino who was. spreading these false messages about. Freddy. They were echoed by Christine. Nome, the Secretary of Homeland. Security, Steven Miller, a senior.

adviser in the White House, who is the. architect of much of Trump's immigration. agenda. And the president was distancing. himself from those exact messages. He. was not saying that Prey was a domestic. terrorist, as Steven Miller said. And he. also was not saying that Freddy was an. assassin who was trying to inflict mass. harm on Border Patrol agents as. Christine Gnome suggested and Bouvino. did as well. And so those individuals. who were really spreading the most.

inaccurate messages about the victim. were sort of being pushed aside. And on. top of that deciding to to pull back. Greg Pavino, we also hear that President. Trump is having these phone calls with. Governor Tim Waltz and uh the mayor of. Minneapolis as well, Jacob Fry. This is. also pretty remarkable. Just a couple. days earlier, President Trump was. attacking these same officials, blaming.

them for the unrest that we are seeing. in Minneapolis. >> Right. In fact, his Department of. Justice is actively investigating both. of them criminally for blocking his. immigration crackdown. But suddenly, he's having what by all accounts, I. think, are somewhat diplomatic phone. calls with. >> He doesn't just talk to them, he also. describes it kind of positively as well. >> Mhm. And based on the readouts from the. calls, Michael, it seems that they. really did get into some substantive. issues. >> But I had two very good talks. I had. Jacob Fry and I had Governor Wals. And I.

mean they were they were great calls. So. >> as you know the president made clear. that he wanted to enhance cooperation. between state and local officials with. federal officials on the ground and the. Democratic leaders also pushed back. >> First of all, I I asked that we have a. fair and independent um investigation. into the murder of both Renee Good and. Alex. um and uh that we have to be able. to do that and and he said I we'll we'll.

look at that. We'll we'll take a look at. that. >> They said they wanted a real. investigation into the shootings of. Minneapolis residents and also an. readout from Tim Walls's office said. that the president agreed to look into. reducing the number of federal agents in. Minnesota. >> He pledged that look, I'm going to send. Tom Holman in. We'll do things. differently. And really what it seems, Michael, is that both sides had an. opportunity to raise their own. grievances and maybe had some. breakthroughs, >> right? And so it felt by Tuesday.

afternoon that we ended up in a. situation that we've become kind of. familiar with in the Trump presidency, which is the administration. has gone too far. People are furious. I. mean, our our colleagues described this. as, and I'm going to quote from them, one of the gravest political threats to. Trump since his inauguration in this. second term. And the president, based on.

everything you're describing here, seems. to understand that and wants to say in. his own way, I get it and I'm ready to. try to diffuse this. >> Michael, that's right. And I mean, just. to that point, as we're speaking to you. right now, the president just told Fox. News that his administration was going. to work on deescalating a little bit the. situation in Minneapolis. But not a. Trump word, not a word you often hear. from this president. Uh, but look, I.

guess that's the big question we have. now moving forward. [music]. Are these just words? You know, is this. just lip service at this point in the. response to intense political backlash. >> or are we uh in the midst here of a real. moment where we could see concrete. change on the ground when it comes to. these kind of federal crackdowns on. American cities. [music].

We'll be right back. So Tyler Enzo, let's further pursue the. question posed right before the break, which is amid all these signals and. symbols of some sort of a change in. course and tone from the president, has.

anything actually changed on the ground. in Minneapolis where ICE and the Border. Patrol are still very much there and has. the administration's thinking about its. role in the city changed at all? >> Yeah. So, even if we've seen a a. rhetorical shift here, we really don't. have all that much evidence that we're. seeing a substantial change on the. ground. This operation in Minneapolis. still appears active. We're hearing as.

well that roughly a 100 arrests were. recorded in Minneapolis just today. So. at this point, we have not seen that. reality on the ground match the shift in. rhetoric from the president on this. topic. >> Tyler, what would it look like for. things to actually change on the ground? One obvious step, Michael, would be that. they pulled back the border patrol. agents and the other federal officials. who are patrolling all across. Minneapolis and other cities where. leaders have said they don't want those.

forces. >> They'd start to reduce the numbers. They. would literally recall these agents, >> right? And another step could possibly. be that there's firings of President. Trump's aids. There are many critics of. the president and even some of his. allies privately saying someone like. Christine Gnome maybe isn't right for. running the Homeland Security. Department, but the president walked out. of the White House today with Steven. Miller and told reporters that Christine. was doing a great job and she certainly.

was not resigning. >> Right. I mean, I suppose the other sign. of an on the ground change that matched. the rhetoric, to use your word, Zolan, would be that the administration took. steps to follow through with an. investigation into Alex Py's killing. They could, for example, name the Border. Patrol agent who shot him. They could. open an investigation into that agent. They could arrest that agent in theory,

>> right? As of right now, the. investigation into this shooting does. not involve looking into criminal. wrongdoing of the agents that were. involved in this shooting. Right. We've. seen that this administration not only. has blamed the victims of these. shootings, but has also refrained from. actually investigating real wrongdoing. when it comes to the federal agents. involved here. So, that would be an. active step. And you know, yes, ICE does.

typically have a presence in all these. cities, but it's worth reminding folks. that we have something different with. this kind of operation, which is that. you have this alphabet soup of federal. agents that are in Minneapolis right. now. It's not a normal ICE deployment. You also have Border Patrol, which was. involved in this shooting, as well as. other federal agents. So, that's another. step they could take in just sort of. turning this into a more typical ICE. deployment. rather than one where you.

have this hodgepodge of federal agents. dawned in camouflage that are now. currently marching through the streets. of Minneapolis. >> Right. And seemingly with a hair trigger. approach to something as simple as. somebody holding a phone out in front of. them in the case of Alex Prey. >> That's right. you would not only be. saying as the president, we're going to. deescalate this situation, but actually. taking concrete steps to scale back this. operation, which could then lead to.

deescalation as well. >> Right. I mean, I'm repeating what you. said to a degree, Zolan, but when you. step back and really examine what's. truly different here beyond the. rhetoric, it seems like the answer is. not much. Not much yet, right? And and. that's important because often with. President Trump when you're going. through these news cycles, when he's. facing political blowback, and this one. it's definitely relevant, he kind of all. has this two-handed approach, right?

>> He both has this reactionary defense for. federal agents, for the federal. crackdown, for his agenda. And then at. the very same time, he will try to. distance himself from that same agenda. when it gets political backlash, when it. causes trouble for him. >> Right. Zolan, when you walked out of the. Oval Office with Tyler a week and a half. ago after your interview with Trump, you. described this as the president. conducting himself like a bystander to. his own presidency and its policies and. its actions.

>> Yes. And I think this is another example. of that, of the president trying to be a. bystander to his own policies. This is. the president that talked about mass. deportations, not only mass. deportations, but deploying federal. agents to American cities, >> right? And this is what's come with. that. This is also the president that at. times has talked about how law. enforcement could deter crime by holding. quote one really violent day. That's. something he said during his own.

campaign. Right. Right. >> And we have seen many violent days. That's right. But it seems at least in. this current moment, we're seeing. President Trump as a bystander to his. own policy and not President Trump. aggressively defending his policy no. matter the circumstances. Tyler, if. people sense that this. tone shift is just a tone shift, really. kind of a veneer, it's clearly not going to satisfy the. fury of motans, of those Republicans in.

Congress who are demanding change, who. are demanding hearings, including in the. Senate. And it's especially not going to. satisfy Democrats who are currently. threatening to block funding bills. required to keep the federal government. open through the end of this week. >> Yeah, Michael, we have not seen the end. of this story. And just as we're talking. now, the president is taking questions. and when he's asked, "Do you plan to. pull agents out of Minnesota?" he says,

"We'll do what'sever appropriate.". That's a decision that the president. gets to make, >> right? and he's not defining the. parameters by which he would change. course. And I think that's really. notable. And I think those are going to. be the questions that lawmakers are. asking of the administration as they. move forward with these critical. government funding bills. I mean, we. just saw choosing Collins, a Republican. of Maine, who told Christy Gnome that. she wants a pause of ICE enforcement in.

Maine and Minnesota. Holan, very. quickly, is there a real risk that the. situation that the president and those. around him have created in a place like. Minneapolis with ICE, with Border. Patrol, could actually lead to some form. of a government shutdown in the next few. days. >> It's always tough to make a prediction, particularly when it comes to Congress. But when you have not only Democrats but. also Republicans who are expressing. concern about the agency at the center.

of this operation and as Tyler said, you. also have someone who's incredibly. influential in the appropriations. committee, Susan Collins, >> also expressing that concern. That is. like a red alert moment for those in the. White House who are anxious about a. government shutdown, right? So, we have. to watch what's going to happen here, but there are definitely signs that. members of Congress that would be needed. in order to prevent a government. shutdown that they are watching what's.

going on in Minneapolis um as well as. other cities when it comes to this. operation. you just to end this conversation, it. strikes me and Zolan, you talked about. this in the in the very beginning of. this conversation that the president has. just objectively speaking. over the past year quickly achieved many. of his immigration goals. He sealed the. border. He reduced crossings to a. historic low, a trickle.

And then with these deployments of ICE. and Border Patrol in cities like. Minneapolis, it no longer feels like much of a debate. here. He turned what many. see as a kind of achievement into this. exceptionally dark chapter of his. presidency. And it just didn't need to. be that way. >> Yes. And you know this policy more than.

any other policy, the president has just. been incredibly emboldened. He's been. surrounded by people that will turn his. impulses into actually policy that will. impact people on the ground. He has felt. that he has had the political support of. his own party and for the most part the. country when it comes to this. immigration agenda from the campaign. until now. And yeah, he's he's faced. push back at times, but he has never.

really even rhetorically acknowledged. the need to scale back. And now it seems. we are at the point where the president. has realized that he might have overshot. on this agenda item where actually he. went so far on this agenda. that now the optics are actually not. working in his favor. >> Right. And it is still early in this. cycle and we don't know what's going to. happen next. But we actually do have one.

takeaway that we can say already from. this and that's that President Trump. wasn't moved to scale back this. operation upon learning that Renee Good. was shot and killed or upon learning. that Mr. Prey was shot and killed. In. fact, he initially laid the blame on. both of them. He was moved on this when. he heard that it was hurting him. politically.

[music]. That's the guard rail it seems at this. moment for his immigration policy. [music] And I think that's notable and. it's something we should watch as we try. to report out just how much further this. is going to expand or if this is really. going to be scaled back in a definitive. way. >> [music]. [music]. >> Well, Zolan and Tyler, thank you very.

much. We appreciate it. >> Thanks so much, Michael. >> Thank you, Michael. On [music] Tuesday night, White House. Deputy Chief of Staff Steven Miller. appeared to back away from his original. inaccurate claims [music]. about Alex PR's death. In a statement to. CNN, Miller [music] said that the White. House was now evaluating why the Border. Patrol agents responsible for PR's death.

may have failed [music] to follow. government protocols. >> [music]. >> We'll be right back. [music] Here's what else you need. another day. On Tuesday night, a man. tried to attack [music] Democratic. Congresswoman Ilhan Omar of Minnesota, a.

frequent target [music] of personal. insults from President Trump. must resign or face impeachment. >> The attack, which involved a syringe, >> oh my god, he sprayed something on her. >> Came during a town hall meeting moments. [music] after Omar called for abolishing. ICE and impeaching [music]. Christine Gnome. The attacker was. quickly tackled and arrested, and Omar.

was [music] unheard. And new census data shows that over the. last year, America's population grew at. one of the slowest [music] rates in the. country's history. A major reason for. the slowdown was the decline in. immigration, [music]. which plunged by more than 50% because. of President Trump's secondterm. policies, combined with a long-term.

decline in the [music] American birth. rate. Overall, the country's population. grew by about 1.8 [music]. million people, a growth rate of about. half a percentage [music] point. Today's episode was produced by Eric. Krupkkey, Mary Wilson, and Rob [music]. Zipco. It was edited by MJ Davis Lynn, contains music by Marian Lozano, Rowan. Misto, and Dan Powell, and was. engineered by [music] Chris Wood.

That's it for the daily. I'm Michael. Aboro. See you [music] tomorrow.