Trump Banned the Media. This Time, the Media Struck Back.

People are stunned the fake news back. there. Look at those cameras rocking and. rolling. >> from the New York Times. I'm Rachel. Abrams. >> Got a lot of cameras going. Whoa. >> And this is the daily. >> Look at ALL THOSE RED LIGHTS. DON'T. WORRY, I won't say anything bad about. your network. >> For every day of Donald Trump's. presidency, >> you better make me look good with that. camera. All right. >> There's been a camera from one of the. major television networks pointed at. him. >> Every time I speak, they put me on live. television. Look at all those cameras.

you got. You got a lot of television. going. It's true. [cheering]. >> But on Monday, all of that changed. [music]. Today, Zolan Ko Youngs and Michael. Grimbomb explained the faceoff between. the president and the press and why the. networks turned their cameras off. It's Tuesday, September 22nd. Michael Zolan, turn off your phones.

>> Okay, >> that's how I greet the guests today. >> I love that. >> the two of you are so busy and on. deadline covering the story we're about. to talk about. I need to make sure your. phones don't buzz in the interview. >> My last slag was I'm starting. Goodbye. >> All right, Zolan Ko Young's, White House. correspondent and we should note CNN. contributor. Welcome to the show. >> Thank you, Rachel. >> Michael Ginbomb. >> Hi. >> So happy to have you. You are a media. reporter. We are also very invested in. this story. So Michael, let's start with. you. Tell us what has been happening. between the press and the White House.

So seemingly out of the blue on Friday. afternoon, >> another shakeup in the White House press. corps today. President. >> President Trump decrees that three news. outlets CNN, Politico, and MS Now are. barred effective immediately in his. words from entering the White House. grounds. putting out a post on truth. social about this saying other news. media outlets to follow was. >> we had no heads up about this. Our. reporting shows that White House aids. were caught completely flatfooted and by.

Saturday morning the journalists from. those outlets attempted to walk through. the security gates like they usually do. >> She went through multiple checkpoints as. we always do. Went to. >> not only were they told they couldn't. come in, their badges were confiscated. by security officers. teams were denied. access from the executive branch. grounds. We want to bring. >> this is an extraordinary escalation even. by the standards of a president who has. threatened, who has sued, who has. subpoenenaed news outlets over the. course of his two terms. To expressly.

say these news organizations are banned. from the grounds of the White House is. something we simply have not seen from. him. And so on Monday, we've seen. something nearly unprecedented, which is. five major television networks banding. together and agreeing that they would. not cover presidential pool events out. of solidarity with CNN. Basically, anytime you turn on CNN or Fox News and. you see the president talking live, you. are watching the TV pool footage of that.

event. >> And so that's a huge deal. Uh, yes. TV. networks have been covering presidents. back to the Eisenhower administration, and we've almost never seen this type of. collective action where they voluntarily. lay down their cameras and do not cover. the events for the historic record. >> What also makes this so intriguing is. this is a president addicted to his TV. coverage. He's obsessed with how he's. portrayed on television. And the idea of. Donald Trump not having TV cameras.

recording his every move in utterance, I. have no idea how he's going to react to. that. >> So, as Michael mentioned, the president. has basically been calling the press the. enemy of the people for years now. So, why is this happening now? >> Well, I think it's important to say that. in the leadup to this, the president had. faced some significant losses, right? We. talk about how his first year in office. was dominated basically by him expanding. executive power and bending institutions. to his will. Well, in the days leading. up to this action, you saw some.

institutions bing at his power, right? And rejecting some of his actions. So, the Supreme Court did not side with the. president when it came to his executive. order on mail ballots. That was a huge. loss. It was something he very much. focused on and something that caused. widespread concern about limiting mail. ballots close to the midterms. How often. have we talked about him and his. attempts to assert power over the Fed, right? Well, the Fed decision last week, even with his handpicked successor to. Jerome Powell, did not go his way.

>> The news last week, of course, being. that he was going to raise interest. rates, which is not what the president. has been pushing for. >> No, absolutely not. He's railed against. decisions just like that up until last. week, right? So, that was another loss. You have the ongoing war in Iran as well. that he said would end in a matter of. four to five weeks. Well, that hasn't. happened either and energy prices. continue to be a problem. Polls show. that the president's approval rating is. very low. His party is not in a good. place as you approach the midterms.

There were a number of moments last week. where we saw government institutions. rejecting President Trump's attempt to. bend them to his will and assert power. over them. And that is not something we. saw often in year one of Trump's return. to the White House. And really what we. saw last week after various institutions. basically rejected his attempt to assert. power over them, he turned to a familiar.

target, one that he could still assert. some power over. >> And that is the media. >> And that's the media. That's right. >> So the president is clearly frustrated. This is the context in which all of this. stuff is happening. Zen, you were. actually at the White House reporting. last week. How did you learn about his. decision to take on the press? Like what. did that look like on the ground? So I. at the time was in the Washington bureau. when we saw this truth social post. >> and the post just to point out says that. news outlet should not be able to report. quote fiction and lies. So that's right. there is some window into what the.

president is thinking when he announces. this ban. >> Right. And I have to be honest you know. because the president has often railed. against the media. I think there was. inherent skepticism at first. What does. this actually mean? Right? So I go to. the White House to figure out what what. it does mean. And once I get there, I. wondered, okay, are we going to be. seeing our colleagues who are there. doing their jobs getting escorted out? Will they still be able to cover the. president this time? Initially, when I. got there, everything seemed, frankly,

normal, right? And you do wonder, is. this just the president riffing? I want. to just pause here for a second because. when we were discussing how to cover. this latest press ban here at the daily, we were talking about how familiar this. story sounds because it people might be. aware that the administration, the Trump. administration has banned reporters from. the Pentagon? That was a big story. I. just want to be clear. Has an. administration ever banned reporters. from the White House? >> Well, this president did in his first. term strip the press badge of Jim Aosta, the CNN reporter. Jim Acasta, I am in.

front of the White House. Secret Service. officer is asking for my hard pass. >> Uh, and there was a court battle that. ensued and CNN won decisively. >> The judge decided that Aosta should get. his pass back because the White House. denied him due process. They didn't give. him any notice that his pass is going to. be revoked or any chance to rebut the. White House's reasoning. >> And that's actually part of the legal. precedent that we expect to come into. play here when they challenge this. newest ban. Okay. >> That's right. President Trump did take.

steps to restrict access in term one. I. would say in term two, we have seen him. escalate the effort to mobilize the. government to crack down on the free. press. Uh we know that our own. colleagues have been restricted in their. access to the Pentagon. We also know. that after President Trump came back to. the White House, he restricted the. associated press from certain parts of. the White House, their print reporters. as well. We also know that in this term, Trump has attempted to micromanage which. outlets are covering him on a day-to-day.

basis. >> He's changed the rules of who which. outlets can go into certain spaces in. the White House. >> It used to be that the White House. Correspondents Association would select. which news organizations were in this. small pool of reporters who get to be in. close proximity to the president during. the day. This term, the Trump. administration decreed that they get to. cherrypick which outlets sit in that. pool. >> That's right. So Rachel, I think the. instinct like initially of is this new. like is is it's totally fair because so.

many people have grown used to a. president that often almost daily rails. against the media, >> right? But there's a real difference of. what happened just over the last 72. hours because now we're talking about. three entire news organizations, every. member of which is barred from entering. the White House grounds. That's an. escalation. I want to talk about the. implications for that. But first, Zolan, I want to know more about how what. happened became clear to you. >> Hello everybody. >> Good afternoon, sir. >> So, you're at the White House. It looks.

like business as usual. What happens. next? >> So, a few things. >> Yes. It was initially business as usual, but then when the president's next event. turned to the question and answer. portion, >> Mr. President, earlier today you posted. that you. >> Kelly O'Donnell, a veteran White House. correspondent for NBC News. She's a. former president actually of the. Association of White House. Correspondents. She asked the first. question on this ban. >> Every president takes an oath to uphold. the Constitution which includes the. first amendment. How do you justify such.

a ban? >> He quickly in his initial answer uses. the language we've often heard. He rails. against the fake news. >> Sir, the First Amendment protects. >> Reporters continued to press him on this. asking him, "What is this ban? How are. you going to carry it out? And also, how. is this legal? How does this align with. your commitment to the Constitution? >> Well, I'll just answer it again. I'll. say it the same way. I don't think. somebody should be allowed to come in. and write fake stories.

>> And through this Q&A, the president, while he's not very clear on the. specifics of how this is going to get. carried out, he actually is pretty clear. on his reasoning for this. >> It's really just cumulative stories. >> And what is it? The reasoning is that he. did not like the coverage of these. outlets. He did not think that this. coverage was favorable. And at one point. in a remarkable statement, he actually. said, >> "If they want to write them, that's. fine. But I don't have to let him into. my into the people's house." Yeah.

>> Look, if you want to write critical. coverage, fine. But you will not do it. from my And then he corrected himself. quickly and said, "You will not do it. from the people's house." A truly. remarkable statement. >> [music]. >> So, okay, he defended this. What is it? >> And by the way, neither of us were. getting clear answers from the White. House. >> There was an initial sign there that. this fell into the pattern of a. halfhazard announcement that didn't have. the sort of planning or preparation.

here. >> I'm going to tweet this and you're going. to figure out how to make it happen. >> That's right. So, then we're trying to. figure out, well, how are they going to. make this happen? Mhm. >> At that point, throughout the rest of. the day at the White House, we still see. no sign that these outlets are going to. be restricted. On my way out, I remember. one of the last things I saw, even after. most other correspondents had left the. White House, was actually CNN still. there at their booth continuing to work. And you had to wonder at that point, while this reporter is there doing their.

job, will they also have this. opportunity tomorrow, right? And the next day we saw that that. was not the case, right? That this ban. was going into effect. >> Right. It was only on Saturday when we. saw reporters show up, try to get access. to the White House, and get denied. >> Yeah. So around 8:00 a.m. on Saturday. morning, I started getting scattered. reports from my sources that reporters. had attempted to go through the usual. security apparatus and the security. officer peered at his computer and said, "Your badge is disabled. I need to take.

it away from you." This happened to MS. Now journalists, CNN journalists, and. Politico writers. Okay. So, I mean, what. kind of difference does it make? Right. So, access to the White House is. interesting and and it's not that. journalists are actually walking around. the West Wing, you know, sticking their. heads into conference rooms. >> Not like the show. >> Yes. Exactly. We don't get they don't do. the walk-in talk necessarily with the. deputy chief of staff. What happens is. reporters have offices, they have. booths, there's a press briefing room, and they do have some limited access.

into the White House press office where. the press secretary and the. communications director works. Now, proximity is important in reporting. I. mean, it's a way to form relationships. It means that when officials come out to. talk, you're right there with a. microphone. You don't have to run over. from your office to get into the White. House grounds. There's something to be. said for being close by. Can journalists. continue to do their jobs and cover this. administration from afar? 100%. There is. such a thing as a telephone. There's. such a thing as email. And reporters.

often meet with sources off campus. But. there's also something very symbolically. important, and this has gone on for. decades, that journalists who may be. adversarial, who are there representing. the American public, who are. scrutinizing the actions of our elected. leaders, get to be there just a few feet. away from them. There's something. actually very American about that. And I. think that's something that was. challenged by the actions of the last. few days, which is why we saw the news media find.

a novel way to band together against. what was happening. We'll be right back. Okay. So, Michael, tell us about how the. fight between the White House and the. news media escalated and what the media. did to kind of push back.

>> So, I've covered the White House press. corps for about a decade and the very. first thing I thought about was what the. heck is going to happen on Monday. morning because CNN had been. pre-seelected to be the pool TV network. for Trump's trip to the United Nations. What does that mean? There is a. television pool that consists of five. networks, ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox News, and. CNN. And they rotate assignments. The. networks pull their resources. So, one. channel will be responsible for one.

particular day's events. >> and they will share their footage with. the other network partners and news. outlets around the world and then it. will rotate to another network the. following day. That way, it's not overly. ownorous for any one network and. everyone benefits. And CNN was going to. be traveling with the president, providing all of the television footage. of his UN trip that would then be. distributed out to every TV channel, to. news outlets like the BBC around the. world. And President Trump had barred. them from participating.

>> Mhm. >> The other four networks spent the. weekend trying to figure out, well, what. are we going to do about this? And. Monday morning, they revealed it. None. of them would substitute for CNN. They. all told the White House, "We are not. going to fill in. You are not going to. have television footage of the. president's events.". >> And so basically what that means, just. to put it really simply, is that CNN on. Monday was supposed to follow the. president around. They no longer can. They've been kicked out. They've been. banned. And so if the White House went. to ABC or Fox or either of the other two.

you mentioned to say, "Hey, can you. cover us now?" The answer was no. We're. basically not going to walk over a dead. body. >> Well, that's right. and news outlets are. very competitive with each other which. is why it's so unusual that they take. this kind of collective action. Now I. think a lot of listeners might be. surprised that hey Fox News is actually. part of this effort but Fox News has. been part of this consortium of five. networks for quite a long time. Fox did. not provide a camera crew on Monday to. cover the president. Now the other. reason for banding together is because. there's also a real financial concern.

that arose. It is so expensive to staff. the president with a cameraman, an audio. producer, a correspondent, and they. essentially all share the cost. So if. CNN suddenly was not participating in a. five network pool, that's a 20% spike in. the financial outlay that these other. networks would have to pay in order to. keep up their responsibilities in the. pool. Mhm. >> And one thing that stuck out to me is. this is not only going to impact our.

reporting, but also it's going to impact. President Trump and so much of how he. presents, you know, his different. projects and really how he goes about. his day in the presidency. I mean, that. is significant. >> That's right. And you have to remember, it's not just the journalists and the. viewers who benefit from this TV pool. It's actually the White House, too. because every event gets high quality, highresolution video footage that can. get distributed around the world. So. this is a mutually beneficial system and.

when that system broke down as Zolan and. I discovered on Monday after it was. embarrassing. >> Wait, wait. So talk to us about the. coverage on Monday then. >> So on Monday the president had this. helipad unveiling and. >> and he is obsessed with this helipad. Can can we say that? >> He is. It's one of the cares about this. helellipad. Okay. So, he's going to do a. ribbon coating ceremony of this gigantic. new helipad on the south lawn. He's got. Marine One, the presidential helicopter, as the backdrop behind him. I mean, this. is like TV gold. Right.

>> Right. Right. And for me watching this, I when I'm watching these events, I need. to hear what the president is saying. I. need to hear if a reporter shouts a. question to him. I could barely hear. anything. >> But wait, if there's no television. coverage, what are you guys actually. watching? >> None of the big networks brought cameras. because of what's going on. So, there. was a YouTube stream, the White House's. own YouTube stream. So, I logged onto. that on my computer, wanted to see how. it happened. I hear this audio. It's white noise. There's no clear.

audio. We're watching Trump talk. I see. his mouth move. I don't hear any words. >> Okay. So, there is no microphone because. the pool cameras aren't there. So, maybe. >> Oh my gosh, you can't hear anything he's. saying. >> It was very difficult to take notes on. the event. One of the many reasons we do. not rely on staterun media. >> That's right. Now, I have been in. situations where you're watching this. White House video stream and it cuts out. before the questions. And the only real. reason that you know that the president. was asked questions and at times gives. answers that maybe the White House.

wouldn't find favorable is because you. have those independent outlets, that. video stream where it actually turns. into a Q&A section. Mhm. But in that. situation, I just want to point out. there are still networks of some kind, maybe just YouTube streamers, but there. are people going to these subsequent. events that, as you say, might be more. important than the helellipad. So, if. you did want to see any of this, aren't. there going to be some people covering. this in some way? Look, we live in a new.

media era, and it's not that the. networks can black out coverage of the. president because you can stream the. president. You can go to your partisan. website. You can read a print report. somewhere. >> But television still really is like the. mass medium for this. And you know how. much of this presidency is communicated? You're in the airport and you're. watching CNN and you see the president. talking and that communicates something. to you. That's what's getting lost when. the major networks say we're not going. to cover this. >> So in preparation for talking to both of.

you guys today, we chatted with our. colleague Peter Baker, another White. House correspondent who's covered many. presidential administrations. and he actually mentioned that ever. since Kennedy was shot, there has been a. TV camera on the president with almost. no exceptions, basically like. documenting every single moment. And I. wonder, Michael, if you could just talk. for a second about why the press chooses. to do this. >> Part of it is about accountability to. the American public and part of it is a. fundamental role of the press and.

society, which is to bear witness. the. television pool. It's funny to say this, but it almost occupies this sacred space. in Washington. It's representing the. fact that the American people have a. right to know exactly what their. president is doing and what he is. saying. >> It's a service. >> It's a service. >> Remember, we do have a sitting president. right now that's had a number of. assassination attempts on his life as. well. >> That's right. And the pool is just so. important, particularly the moving image. as well when it comes to having presence. in the current climate that we're in so.

that we can always have eyes on him even. if we're not physically present. ourselves. And we have seen countless. examples of why this is valuable, right? when President Biden was in office and. even now as we document President Trump, we need television specifically, particularly when we have presidents of. this age, right? To be able to see. exactly how they are moving to actually. see their demeanor. Think about earlier. this year when there were reports of.

President Trump dozing off in meetings. in the White House. I can tell you I. wrote one of those stories. The way that. I did it, because I wasn't in the pool. that day, was by actually pulling up one. of the television networks that was on. pool duty and actually counting how long. he closed his eyes. Right? All of this. is so important, particularly when, frankly, Americans are even more focused. on the age and the fitness of the. presidents that have been elected to. serve them. >> As you both have referenced in this.

conversation, we know two things to be. very true about Donald Trump. One, he's. very fickle. And two, he loves being on. television and he loves TV. And it feels. like he has set in motion two kind of. opposing forces. One, his hatred of the. press, and two, his love of being on. television. And I just want to time. stamp this conversation we are having. We are talking Monday afternoon. Given. those two things we know about the. president, what should we expect to see. in the coming days? >> Well, I'll start from the White House. side. I think already we have seen his.

top aids, namely Vice President J. D. Vance, when he was asked about this. today. >> Do you think it's appropriate for the. president to be banning media outlets. just because he doesn't like what they. report? >> Well, I take some issue with the. premise. So, >> seemingly sort of tie himself in knots. trying to explain away this. >> So, he's not banning media outlets. What. he's doing is saying, "We're not going. to give you special access to the White. House if you engage in what is. effectively propaganda." He said it.

wasn't a ban on the free press. >> So, if you're going to engage in what is. effectively far-left propaganda, why. would a Republican White House give you. special access? >> President Trump was the one that used. the word ban. He said that President. Trump wants fair coverage. >> How is it not an attack on free speech? >> Well, they can still report on the Trump. White House. They can still get the. public reports. They can. >> But President Trump was pretty clear the. other day that if these outlets give him. more favorable coverage, he would assess. letting them back in. So already I think. what we're seeing on the government side.

is that this is a question that they're. going to be faced with and they're going. to continue to have to address. >> Michael, what are your thoughts? >> Well, CNN along with MS Now and Politico. have filed a lawsuit against the Trump. administration to restore their access. to the White House grounds. A hearing in. that case has been scheduled for. Wednesday morning. I will be watching. closely to see if the judge could issue. a order essentially suspending what. Trump declared and letting the.

journalists back. Ironically, a ruling. in favor of the news outlets could be an. offramp for Trump where he's essentially. forced by the courts to let back in the. television networks that he's already. starting to miss. >> without having to concede anything. So. that's a potential. deumont here of a tense situation, >> right? It really feels like the question. is what's going to win? Trump's hatred. of the media or his desire to be on TV.

>> No, you guys have to say things. It's. radio. You can't just nod at me. >> Uh uh I. >> it feels like the highest stake showdown. yet between the president and his press. corps. I can't remember when it felt. this consequential because television. coverage of the president is just so. ingrained into our system and you know. something's going to have to give here. >> I mean man, you just look at the rest of. this week for President Trump. He's got. UN General Assembly, but then he's also.

got this meeting with President Xi of. China, right? And you don't think that. he wants as much television coverage. that he can get when he goes to greet. this leader that he's always talked. about when he arrives in Washington DC. or when he goes to the White House. But. I mean, seeing how this is going to play. out in the days ahead where you have a. president who has this unique. relationship to television with this. huge event hosting the president of. China and also an event that presents an. ample opportunity for reporters to ask.

critical questions. This is going to be. very very important to see how this. plays out the rest of the week. >> And look, I mean, I'll add one more note. on this. We've talked about this. individual case, but like this is a. piece of a broader puzzle here, right? It's not the first time we've seen the. president use the tools in the federal. government to crack down on those who. question his power. So something that. we're looking at as journalists covering. this presidency is what does this moment. mean for his commitment to democracy and.

also freedom of speech too and what. other actions might we see even after. this because we've seen a number of them. already before this ban. [music]. >> Zolan Ko Young's Michael Ginbomb. Thank. you both so much. >> Thank you Rachel. >> Thank you. On [music] Monday afternoon, the. Washington Post and the New York Times. also announced gestures of [music]. support for the three media outlets. barred on Saturday from the White House.

grounds. Both outlets said they would hold off. publishing any photographs of Monday's. presidential events until midnight. In a. statement, [music] the Times said that. quote, "Americans deserve a free and. independent media covering their. government without intimidation as well. as comprehensive coverage [music] of. newsworthy events.". We'll be right [music] back.

Here's what else you need to know. Today, [music] Paramount reached an. agreement to buy Warner Brothers. Discovery, which includes CNN, resolving. an antitrust lawsuit that had delayed. the $111 billion [music] merger. The agreement with several state. attorneys general, including from. California, required a number of. concessions, including the establishment. of an independent committee to ensure. editorial independence at CNN and CBS.

News. Today's episode was produced by Adrienne. [music] Hurst, Caitlyn O'Keefe, and Eric. Krupkkey. It was edited by Michael. Benwis and Liz O Balin. Contains music. by Alicia Beetup, [music] Rowan Nisto, and Dan Powell. It was engineered by. Chris Wood. Our theme music is by. Wonderly. [music]. That's it for the Daily. I'm Rachel.

Abrams. See you tomorrow.