Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland

from New York Times I'm Michael babbaro. this is the. [Music]. daily today Donald Trump's sentencing in. the New York hush money case is just two. days away and he is throwing a Hail Mary. in the direction of the US Supreme Court. during a busy week President elect Trump. asked the Supreme Court to prevent him. from being sentenced in a New York. criminal case there has been. International push back over Trump's.

recent comments about taking control of. Greenland he implied that as president. he could use military force to seize. control of Greenland and the Panama. Canal less than two weeks before his. inauguration the president-elect is. mapping out headline making plans for. his administration and he overshadowed a. sitting president who is using his final. days in office to try to Trump proof his. legacy to make sense of all of this I.

gathered three of my colleagues senior. political reporter Maggie hman and White. House reporters David Sanger and zolan. Kano. [Music]. [Applause]. Youngs it's Friday January. [Music]. 10th friends welcome to to the first.

daily Round Table of. 2025 and thank you for being here Maggie. you are joining us from Washington. welcome thank you David you are coming. to us from maral Lago nice to have you. well I'm down the street in Palm Beach. but uh yes we've been in and out of. maral Lago a few times here now good and. zolen we are talking to you from Italy. where President Biden was supposed to be. but had to cancel because of the Los. Angeles wildfires thank you for being on.

ciao CIA colleagues so we have all the. geography covered here and as always we. begin with the caveat that we are. recording this at a very specific timer. around 1:15 on Thursday because the news. could change before we run this and in. fact we know it will change because the. Supreme Court is about to make a major. ruling at the request of president-elect. trump Maggie can you walk us through. that request from president-elect Trump. sure so president-elect Trump's lawyers.

filed a request for the Supreme Court to. stop Trump's scheduled sentencing on. felony falsifying business records that. related to a payment to a porn star who. said she had had an affair with Trump. right we think of this as the hush money. case the hush money case and the. sentencing was scheduled by New York. Justice Juan rashan for January 10th. when this runs Friday morning right now. it's worth bearing in mind Michael that. part of why this sentencing has not. happened yet is because Trump's legal. team has repeatedly requested delays. over and over and over again and M's.

feeling is it needs to happen at a. certain point for closure and respect. for the jury verdict and so forth and so. on he has refused their request to. dismiss the case outright the Trump team. is not surprisingly using every Avenue. they can to try to delay it and what's. their strongest argument Maggie legally. for why the Supreme Court should weigh. in and stop this local court case from. running its course legally is it's the. presidential immunity argument and it's.

going to be up to the justices to decide. whether in in their previous ruling. about how presidents have pretty broad. immunity for acts committed while in. office whether this would technically. apply there is the question and I do. think that some of the justices may feel. this poll of whether an incoming. President should be facing a hearing. where even though the judge in the case. has signaled that he's going to give. Trump an unconditional discharge meaning. no penalties no jail times no any no.

home confinement it is honorous to go. into office that way and that's not. really a legal argument it's more a. respect for the presidency argument. fascinating and and David what would it. mean for the ruling to go either way not. just for Trump necessarily but for the. idea of the rule of. law well for Trump to begin with just. the concept as Maggie said of being. inaugurated in uh roughly 10 days as a. felon is something something that I.

think he would probably not want to see. on his Wikipedia page right and it will. fit into the entire grievance argument. that President like Trump has made that. these prosecutions have been entirely. political and you've heard him make. those arguments as uh recently as. earlier this week it is his press. conference but more importantly for the. institution it then would raise the.

fundamental question of how somebody. could be convicted as a felon and then. quite constitutionally quite legally. elected as. president David you mentioned there was. a press conference from president-elect. Trump earlier this week made a lot of. news and zolen you were covering that. news conference it was at maralago zolan. just to begin with what was this news. conference supposed to be. about you know on paper it was almost. advertis as something that I think many.

would characterize as somewhat. presidential about economic investment. the president elect came out with a. business leader from the UAE that. actually has close ties to the Trump. family and started out by talking about. a 20 billion investment to Data Centers. a sort of normal press conference as one. goes into office but it really only took. minutes for this thing to move off topic. right and to to devolve into something.

that was a news conference that I think. we all saw when Trump was first in. office well inevitably it turned to. Greenland and David you were there and. you ended up asking him a question about. his now repeated interest in the idea of. the United States basically. subsuming Canada Greenland and the. Panama Canal and I want to play David.

for our listeners the question that you. asked the president-elect that basically. became the exchange her around the world. here is what it sounded like that you. mentioned but let's start if we could. with uh your references to Greenland and. the Panama Canal so forth can you assure. the world that as you try to uh get. control of these areas you are not going. to use military or economic coercion and. can you tell us a little bit about what.

your plan is are you going to negotiate. a new treaty are you uh going to ask the. Canadians to hold the vote what what is. the strategy I can't assure you you. you're talking about Panama and. Greenland no I can't assure you on. either of those two but uh I can say. this we need them for Economic Security. the Panama Canal was built David just. explain what it is Trump is saying he's. not saying all that much but it ends up. making a ton of.

news so uh when this all began in the. first term uh Michael you may recall. that one of his close friends had. suggested to him that the United States. should buy greenlands an idea that. actually Harry Truman had had in the. 1940s at the opening of the Cold War and. in the first term it was pretty much. described as a real estate offer right. he was making an offer the sellers said. they weren't interested in selling we. kind of moved on okay right Denmark has.

got the foreign and defense. responsibilities for Greenland as the. President elect has come back at this in. December in a series of tweets and. increasingly martial sounding statements. he has made it sound less like a deal. and more like you have to go do this and. I had been told by people who had had. conversations with him or with his. advisers that he was increasingly.

discussing using the other powers of the. United States to force Denmark and now. Panama to. basically make this deal happen in other. words that he would come to it not just. as a real estate developer but a real. estate developer world most powerful yes. military behind him and uh so that's why. I phrased the question as I did which. was to ask him are you planning to use. military or economic.

coercion and as you might expect with. Donald Trump who frequently tells you as. Maggie knows better than I do sort of. what's right on his mind he immediately. said I'm not going to rule out using any. of those tools and that's what made such. news Maggie and Zen let's take the. president-elect at his word here what. might it look like to. use let's just use the example of. military power perhaps not to invade but. to begin a campaign of intimidation to.

try to convince Denmark this is. inevitable I can't speak to what a. military effort would look like that. isn't an invasion um in terms of. economic pressure tariffs are Trump's. tool of choice and have been over and. over again and I was talking to uh a. former Biden Administration official. about this today who was saying that. folks in Greenland are alarmed about the. Tariff threats and there's a sense in. Greenland that as David said this is. than the discussion in 2019 which was.

this would be great for us strategically. that's a little different than I want. this and I'm going to take it and I've. been reminding some people in the last. couple of days. that Trump in the early. 1980s when he was making his name as a. developer did things like threatened to. move homeless people into a building he. had bought to try to get certain tenants. out he did things like paint the homes. of people who lived near one of his.

casinos in Atlantic City cuz he just. didn't like the way they looked without. asking their permission just went and. painted their houses and so like this is. his mindset and everything is sort of. flat and the same and he's treating it. that way Trump never rules anything out. it's straight out of his Playbook. economic coercion is straight out of his. Playbook exact and it's not just Denmark. and Panama which he focused on in the. press conference leaders there that are. rattled by this he also talked about. Canada and potentially using economic. coion there also the tricky thing with.

these press conferences is we focus on. in one example Trump said I want to. rename the Gulf of Mexico the Gulf of. America right the focus is there but. also he did have comments about Mexico. and the Mexican Government not doing. enough to stop migrants to stop drug. trafficking we know that he has also. threatened tariffs against Mexico before. so while there may be sort of a flashy. statement at the top of this I do think. there's a real through line behind it. and it does you know rattle leaders.

including some of our biggest trade. Partners I have a theory I wanted to run. by all of you or perhaps just one of you. who's willing to take it on about how. Trump talks about Greenland Panama Canal. Canada and what may simply underly it. and and let's just put aside the. argument that there's a strategic. economic reason for doing it perhaps. there very much is I don't think it's. controversial to say that at this moment. Americans sense of themselves is that. we're a little bit on our heels we. aren't the only superpower in in the. world anymore David you've written books.

about this many see us as a nation. somewhat in Decline from our Heights of. power and in that context my logic has. been the idea of expansion even if it's. just an idea is enormously appealing In. This Moment it's like a return to. manifest destiny Westward Ho you know we. have bought States and land in the past. we bought Alaska from Russia I looked it. up right before this conversation. started and so should we just view it in. that context it's nationalism on. steroids yes America went through a. phase where from the Louisiana Purchase.

to Alaska which was dismissed as you. know Seward's folly at the time right to. the Spanish-American war from which we. got Guam and Puerto Rico and had control. of the Philippines for a long time this. was the way the US operated in the post. World War II era we have talked instead. about living in a rule of international. law where power took a back seat to what.

our legal rights were and our. fundamental argument as a Nation about. why the United States as supporting. Ukraine is that Vladimir Putin used the. fact that he had a more powerful Army to. go in on a national security argument. you could call it a. pretense to invade Ukraine and that you. know we have moved beyond that that was. the core of the Biden argument for why. this was an illegal move so any. suggestion that the United States was.

moving back to sort of the law of the. Jungle is what's got people so uh I. think Disturbed at this moment I mean. Maggie let me give you a last word on. this before we go to break is this. symbolic or based on your reporting is. this a serious Earnest undertaking that. we should be watching with the. carefulness that goes with the adage. that when Trump says something take it. seriously I I think in general he's the. incoming president so I think that after.

everything we have seen over the last. eight years the whole literally. seriously fight seems kind of beside the. point to me he said yeah and settled and. so he's saying it uh I mean part of the. problem too Michael is that Trump sort. of everything is a troll until as. Jonathan Swan says until it suddenly. becomes. [Music]. serious we are going to take a break and. when we come back we're going to talk. about what the president the actual. sitting president is up to right now. it's quite overshadowed by the. president-elect. and understand how Biden is thinking.

about his final days in office we'll be. right. back okay zolan talk about what. President Biden is doing in this final. stretch of time he has in office so I'll. start with policy and sort of the. actions that he's been taking you know. he recently signed an executive order in. the vein of environmental justice and. climate it would basically ban Drilling.

in about 625 million Acres of us Coastal. Waters W Biden has also used his final. days to issue clemency action as well. for those on death row right that being. said I do think that there's a Focus. right now on how the sitting president. is sort of putting up hurdles in the way. for the incoming. Administration when I talk to. Administration officials privately. they're honest that they're Limited what. they can do with the president-elect.

coming in you know Trump has said that. he's going to gut Biden's inflation. reduction act and his environmental. Investments he has said he's going to. peel back some of that money and there. are laws in place that basically say. that appropriated funds have to go out. but there's not much you can do for say. Biden's executive actions on immigration. Trump's going to be able to peel much of. that back so yes Biden is taking action. to try to protect some of these policies. but privately Administration officials.

are a little bit more candid about how. little they can do here to protect this. agenda particularly that which wasn't. signed into legislation right what. you're pointing to is that Biden might. sign an executive order saying that the. grounds under the ocean can't be drilled. but the thing about an executive order. is that it depends on who the executive. Trump could come in and essentially roll. that back which is the case for pretty. much all executive action that's right. David what stands out to you about these. these last I guess two weeks and days of.

of Biden's. presidency um two things first on the. executive orders we've still got a. couple that are coming and some that. will put I think president-elect Trump. in something of an interesting bind or. at least some interesting choices. there's an order coming on artificial. intelligence that would basically. restrict to Manufacturing in the United. States and keeping in the United States. the data centers many of the ships that. are used for AI purposes so that China.

can't use them for military purposes. it's a very nationalistic kind of order. it follows what Biden has been doing. with the semiconductor industry since. the start and it would make president. Trump once he's in office have to choose. between his Tech supporters including. the Elon Musk crowd who want the. greatest ability to conduct AI work all. around the world fascinating and the. Maga group that was say let's do this.

here in the United States and I think he. might stick with that one so you're. saying if Biden can't protect everything. he's done what he can do is drive a. wedge between Trump and his supporters. that's right and leave him in a pretty. tough spot that's right and and between. these emerging groups the tech. supporters versus the older line sort of. nationalistic uh Maga supporters on the. your broader question you know what's. been remarkable I think to all of us has. been the degree to which President Biden. has seed the spotlight we've now seen.

Trump do two major press conferences I. don't believe there's been a full press. conference from with President Biden. since the NATO Summit last summer just. before he dropped out of the race David. I traveled with him to Latin America and. Angola and he answered two shouted. questions during both of those trips. answer two shouted questions you know. and this is the old Trope journalists. really like it when they pres hold news. conferences but I'm hearing you all say.

this is not just journalistic belly. aching about access to the president. this is about what seems like either a. conscious or unconscious decision by the. president to not hold the office in the. fullest way possible publicly as he. could at the end of his presidency. that's right and he did one interview uh. with USA Today you know where I'm going. David you know in that I'll be. interested to see what what zolan and. Maggie thought I didn't think that he. used the moment to sort of put his Pres. see in the scale of History well let's.

talk about what he did do in that. interview I mean the elements of the. interview with USA Today that ultimately. seemed to break through were the fact. that Biden among other things is. considering issuing preemptive pardons. that would protect potential targets of. a criminal investigation by the incoming. Trump Administration we've talked so. much on the show about a trump doj's. pretty much open commitment to going. after certain of his rival and enemies.

it was interesting that Biden came out. and said I am thinking about doing this. do we know who might be at the top of. that list for preemptive Pardons and and. do they want them because getting a. preemptive pardon from the president. suggests that you might have done. something wrong yeah this has been a. huge subject within the White House and. on Capitol Hill and it really did as I. understand it originate from Capitol. Hill um there are a lot of members of. Congress who are concerned that the way. he often Frank it is this person should.

be investigated now I just want to point. out because Trump's people often do he. told me at the Press you know that he. wasn't going to direct the doj on what. to do and maybe that will be true and. maybe it won't be true but it almost. doesn't need to be true because they. know what he wants and they know what. he'd like to see done so these folks are. worried about being targeted for trying. to hold Trump accountable for things. like trying to stay in office after. losing an election or here talking about. Liz Cheney Liz Cheney for instance or. Benny Thompson who who co-chaired the j6. committee with her or Anthony fouchy who.

was a a top infectious diseases official. in government for decades who including. during the administration and incurred a. lot of anger for his Corona virus era. recommendations people can take issue. with some of the recommendations without. suggesting he somehow committed a crime. and that's where that leap goes but if. you accept a pardon you are. acknowledging some level of wrongdoing. and these folks generally don't believe. they did anything wrong number one. number two the challenge for the Biden. White House is where is the line where. do you stop Biden also made a.

fascinating admission in this. conversation with USA Today and it was. this although he believes he could have. beaten Trump had he stayed in the race. which we'll never really know the answer. to he said he's unsure he acknowledged. an uncertainty that he would have made. it through a second term that's a big. thing to acknowledge Zen I thought that. was his most clear acknowledgment of. what many Democrats had been fearing. you know one thing I would often hear is.

it's not necessarily that he's 82 years. old it's what happens when he's 86 what. happens at the end of a second term and. does he have the ability to fully carry. out that service and here you saw him. acknowledging that concern as well I I. also think he was speaking to we've been. reporting a lot on just Biden's sort of. mood and his mindset yeah in these final. months and there's been frustration he. does believe that that he had the. ability to beat Trump if he had stayed. at the top of the ticket he's also very.

reflective right now and I think the USA. Today interview you know showed that. he's in this period where he's. reflecting on his long career but also. thinking about what could have been if. he hadn't dropped out but to be clear I. mean most polling does you know throw. doubt on the fact that he had the. ability to to be Trump can I just make. one point real quick Michael in terms of. what Z saying he is reflecting but he's. reflecting on what he believes he was. denied he's not reflecting on mistakes. that he made or how the white house. handled questions about his age or the.

fact that large numbers of reporters. were attacked on social media and. Elsewhere for raising questions that. were taking place in front of their eyes. about and and to deliver the statement. of yes I could have won but who knows if. I I I can't say for sure if I could have. served the whole four years that's a. pretty astonishing statement David is. that an admission of irresponsibility on. Biden's part you've covered this. presidency for its entirety to suggest. that you might not be able to fulfill.

the obligations of President of the. United States commander-in-chief for a. full term but that you were determined. to do it anyway it borders on raising. serious questions about judgment it sure. does Michael because it raises the. question when Mr President did you come. to that conclusion right because before. or after you decided not to run right at. that last press conference that I. mentioned the NATO press conference I. asked him whether or not he thought that. he could take on a sitdown meeting with.

Putin or she in two or three years and. he basically said absolutely that was. July right okay that he definitely could. go do that and what are we hearing from. him now well no one can predict what I'm. going to be like when I'm approaching 86. well that's true of everybody you know. in that age group right and I hope that. all of us in this conversation get to. the point where we have to go make that. decision. ourselves but I'd love to know when he.

came to this conclusion David this does. remind me that you are basically the. Forest Gump of Presidential news. conferences um totally true which news. conference did you not ask the question. totally true I I want to end my friends. on a scene that has just played out a. somber one in Washington at the National. Cathedral Biden was there so was Donald. Trump and all of our living former. presidents this was the funeral of. course of former President Jimmy Carter.

I'm curious what stood out to all of you. about the ceremony I know you're busy. you might not have been able to watch. the funeral in its entirety but there. were several moments that I think a. number of our colleagues are seizing on. for their symbolism and their. significance I didn't get to hear most. of the eulogies Michael but from what I. saw visually uh what was striking was. Mike Pence sitting almost directly. behind Donald Trump and they shook hands. at one point I don't think they have. seen other in person since they left.

office January 6 might have spelled Mike. Pence's death at the hands of people. riding in the name of Donald Trump he. rose to shake Trump Shake Trump's hand. and Trump has since said well those. people were angry you know the mob at. the capital of his supporters in. explaining somewhat justifying why they. would be saying such things the other. thing that really struck me was just. this the what looked like moments of. levity I don't know if it was pretend or. not between President Obama and. president Trump who were sitting next to. each other those as well you know these. are two men who the one who was about to.

be president for a second time Rose to. prominence in the Republican Party by. questioning the legitimacy of the former. president and was he American was he. born in the United States was right was. he truly born in the US it was really. striking especially because Obama was. quite um pointed about Donald Trump. during this last campaign and a way that. he generally hadn't been we're going to. slide in and out of sort of Washington. routine and normaly at certain points.

and then there's going to be how Trump. does things that is not how things have. usually been done and today was just a. star reminder of that that was the most. striking thing for me Maggie is just. seeing not just Obama but also Biden and. really all of these leaders sitting. together you know in a way you have a. collision of institutionalists and. traditionalists facing somebody that for. years they have called a threat to. democracy and. who many of their also supporters is a.

threat to democracy but now you're in. this period where your commitment to the. institution rises above it seems exactly. David I want to end with a clip of. President Biden's eulogy to Jimmy Carter. I think by the time we're done playing. it you'll understand why I chose it let. me just play it for you you know uh we. have an. obligation to give hate no Safe Harbor. and to stand up to my dad us say is the.

greatest sin of all the abuse of. power was that what I think it was oh. yeah that was exactly what you thought. it was just translate that you know so. the eulogy was about Jimmy Carter but it. was about Jimmy Carter as the. anti-trump and I think that is what. Biden truly believes and so you had this. odd Duality as I was watching and it it. struck me Michael not to follow your.

farest Gump comparisons for uh too long. because I'm not sure I really like that. one very much but uh these are the five. presidents I've covered and these were. five remarkably different people but. four of them worked within the. institutions even though we had our. doubts at various moments during the. Iraq War about George W bush and one of. them has celebrated living outside the. institution and one way you could look. at the five people who were standing.

there was to say this moment too shall. pass we've had good presidents bad. presidents presidents who broke laws. presidents who didn't break laws sure a. lot of people looked at this and looked. at Bill Clinton and said here is an. impeached president standing standing. here and there was one at the other end. of the bench as well but the other way. to go look at it is that that. eulogy basically was a warning that. while we have made it through each one.

of these five presidencies represented. on those benches and Jimmy Carter's that. there remains a threat to the. institution and I think that's what. Biden was saying without ever of course. uttering Donald Trump's. [Music]. name well Maggie. and zolan and David thank you very much.

for your time I really appreciate it. thank you thank you Michael thanks. [Music]. Michael on Thursday night the Supreme. Court denied Trump's request to stop his. criminal sentencing in the New York City. hush money case the decision all but. ensures that Trump's sentencing will. proceed as planned later today the. justices noted that Trump faces no jail.

time and can still appeal his conviction. through traditional legal. [Music]. means we'll be right back. [Music]. here's what else you need to know today.

it is safe to say that the Palisades. fire is one of the most destructive. natural disasters in the history of Los. Angeles on Thursday officials in Los. Angeles said that the largest of the. city's five wildfires the Palisades fire. has now damaged or destroyed thousands. of buildings and continues to burn out. of. control in a worrying sign for. firefighters forecasters expected wins.

to pick up on Thursday night with wind. speeds of 20 to 30 mph and gusts of up. to 60 MPH and warned that heavy winds. could arrive again over the weekend so. far the fires have killed at least five. people but that number is expected to. rise. [Music].

and during his State funeral on Thursday. former President Jimmy Carter was. remembered as a humble peanut farmer who. Rose to the heights of power and used. that power to seek out Justice and peace. it was something of a miracle. and I don't mean this with any.

disrespect but um hard for me to. understand how you could be get to be. president from Plains. Georgia in eulogy after eulogy friends. advisers and Carter's grandson Jason. Carter recalled just how much the former. president and his late wife Rosalyn had. embraced a life of.

modesty yes they spent 4 years in the. governor's mansion and 4 years at the. White House but the other 92. years they spent at home in Plains. Georgia and one of the best ways to. demonstrate that they were regular folks. is to take them by that home first of. all it looks like they might have built. it. [Music]. themselves second of all my grand father. was likely to show up at the door in. some 70s short shorts and.

[Music]. Crocs after the funeral Carter's body. was flown by military jet to his. hometown in Georgia for a private. service at his local church and a burial. at a family plot next to his home.

today's episode was produced by Rob. zipco Michael Simon Johnson and will. Reed it was edited by Rachel quer and. Chris haxel contains original music by. Dan Powell and was engineered by Alyssa. Moxley our theme music is by Jim. brunberg and Ben Lanser of wonderly.

a reminder you can catch a new episode. of the interview right here tomorrow. David maresi speaks with the actor and. comedian Ben Stiller about what it was. like growing up as the son of Comedy. Legends it's a hard thing when you when. you look up to a parent so much I look. at myself and go am I that person you. know am I as good as he was are you I. don't know. [Music].

that's it for the daily I'm Michael. borro see you on Monday. [Music].