The Young Economic Populists Reshaping the Left

From The New York Times, I'm Natalie. Kitroeff. This is The Daily. >> [music]. >> As Democrats wrestle over the direction. of their party, a new crop of. progressive [music] candidates has made. the case that the political future is. economic populism. Among the biggest supporters of that. platform are college graduates who used. to lean right politically, but over the. last few decades [music] have moved.

increasingly to the left. Today, my colleague Noam Scheiber. explains the economic forces that have. left many college grads deeply indebted, [music]. underpaid, and angry, and how their. unmet expectations are reshaping class. politics [music]. in America. >> [music]. >> It's Thursday, [music]. June 11th.

Noam, to set the stakes of the. conversation that we're about to have, can you describe the political. transformation of college graduates that. you've just written a book about and. that you've been reporting on for years. now? >> [snorts]. >> Yeah, so I think we sometimes forget. that as recently as the 1980s and 1990s, college grads were actually pretty. conservative politically. In the 1980s,

for example, they tended to vote. Republican by double-digit margins, at. least on the presidential level. They. used to favor things like smaller. government, lower taxes, fewer. regulations, and a lot of this I think. was driven by the fact that. college-educated workers tended to see. themselves as kind of. management-adjacent. They tended to expect that their lives. would become much more affluent in the. future. So, this is very consistent with. their worldview. If you're an affluent.

person and you run a business or you're. an executive, you tend to want the. government to stay out of your way. But, if you fast forward a few decades, you. really start to get a different picture. And if you look at the most recent. election, you see that college grads. actually shift really far in the other. direction. They end up supporting Kamala. Harris over Donald Trump by about a. 15-point margin. And on the specific. economic like government and taxes and. regulation, they've actually moved much. further to the left, much closer to.

people without a degree than they were. in the 1980s. >> And so, what explains that? What is. driving that transformation? >> Well, there are a number of factors that. people point to when trying to explain. this. But, in my book, I focus first and. foremost on economics. A lot of people. who went to college were really sold on. this idea that it would be the key to an. upper-middle-class adulthood. And it. turned out that the reality fell far,

far short of that. And instead, they. were squeezed in a whole variety of. ways. And that fueled a sense of. grievance and frustration among a lot of. college grads with the economic system. that exists today. >> Okay, what are the economic forces that. led to this deep sense of frustration? >> So, this starts several decades ago. In. 1970, only about 10% of Americans had. four-year college degrees. The vast. majority of Americans did not go to. college, did not have a degree. But, we.

see that in the '80s and '90s, the. number of people going to college really. starts to explode. >> NBC News in depth tonight, America's new. insecurity. Good jobs, good wages, a. whole way of life disappearing forever. >> And I think a lot of it has to do with. the decline of traditional blue-collar. jobs. >> In the first 6 months of this year. alone, America lost 221,000. jobs in manufacturing, and it's getting. worse. >> There was a sense that automation and.

globalization and the decline of unions. was really making it harder for people. to make a living if they only had a high. school degree. >> Earlier this year, the Census Bureau. reinforced the view that a college. degree makes a big difference in. lifetime earnings, hundreds of thousands. of dollars difference. >> And the solution in a lot of cases was, well, we should send them to college. >> I have something to say to every family. listening to us tonight. Your children can go on to college. >> This really becomes a kind of national.

obsession. >> We can make college as universal in the. 21st century as high school is today, and my. >> Presidents beginning, especially with. Bill Clinton, talk about how people. should go to college so that they can. compete in the modern global economy. >> The No Child Left Behind Act needs to be. reauthorized and strengthened. >> We see George W. Bush when [music] he. pushes his education reform initiative, No Child Left Behind. >> And the reason I bring it up is in order. to make sure we've got more children. ready for college.

>> emphasizes that we need to prepare. people better to go to college. >> A good education is no longer just a. pathway to opportunity, it is a. prerequisite. >> And of course Barack Obama really. elevates this as well. >> We will provide the support necessary. for all young Americans to complete. college and meet a new goal. By 2020, America will once again have. the highest proportion of college. graduates in the world. That is a goal we can meet. That's a goal we can meet. >> And this change really happens even.

outside of the political realm, too. Even in [snorts] the public school. system and charter schools, we really as. a nation start emphasizing the. importance [music] of going to college. >> Good morning, Miss No. Twani. [music]. >> What we're doing here at KIPP Academy. Elementary is preparing our kids not. only for [music] academic excellence, but for college. >> One of the largest charter school. networks in the country called KIPP. [music]. >> Even though they are four and five years. old right now and in kindergarten, they'll be graduating from college in.

the year 2000. >> Really starts emphasizing in the early. 90s that college begins in kindergarten, that everyone must start obsessing about. college from the very moment that they. enter a classroom. >> [music]. >> And go to college. Go to college. Go to. college. >> Hey, don't clap. >> What you're saying is there's. essentially a national PR campaign for. college. >> No question. Everyone from your friends. and family members to the president of. the United States is telling you that.

this is an absolute necessity. And so. naturally, people start to follow that. advice. And by 2010, we see that 30% of. Americans have four-year college degrees. and it's rising rapidly. >> 30%, which is compared to what? You said. 10% 1970. So basically, the rate tripled. in 40 years. >> Yeah. And to meet all that demand, we. start to see a whole bunch of new. players open their doors or expand their.

ranks. So we see for-profit colleges. really start to enter the scene and we. have a huge increase in the number of. people who are attending for-profit. universities. And another thing that we. see is what are known as non-competitive. public [snorts] universities. So that's. like not the University of Texas at. Austin, which is obviously a very. prestigious public university. >> How come? >> Or even the University of Texas at. Dallas, which is a pretty competitive. state university, but something like the.

University of Texas at Rio Grande. Valley, which admits almost everyone who. applies to the university. And what. we've seen is that if you go to the. University of Texas at Austin, you tend. to do very well. If you go to the. University of Texas at Dallas, often it. works out pretty well. But, for someone. who graduates from an essentially open. admission public university, it's a much. more complicated picture, and it's not. at all clear that the cost is worth the. benefit to you at a university like.

that. >> Just to summarize quickly, you have this. huge increase in the number of. prospective students, and as a result, the landscape of education starts to. change in order to accommodate them. You. get these new colleges, both for-profit. and these non-competitive ones, and it. sounds like those changes, they start to. dilute the value of a college degree. >> That's exactly right. I mean, in some. ways, in the 1980s and 1990s, a college. degree really was a can't-lose asset. We.

find that the value of these degrees. were increasing pretty much in lockstep. Obviously, if you went to Harvard and. studied engineering, you might do better. than someone who went to their state. university and studied art history, but. in general, this was a appreciating. asset. But, [snorts] by the 2000-2010s, we see a much more mixed picture, which. in some cases makes sense for people, but in a lot of other cases doesn't make. that much sense for people. >> I rise today to give my heartfelt.

support for the higher education. amendments of 1991. >> And what's happening around the same. time. >> The provisions of this bill vastly. expand the amount students may borrow to. help them finance their education. >> is that Congress is making it easier for. people to borrow to go to college. So, Congress raises the limit on student. debt in the early '90s, and then it. raises it again a few times in the kind. of 2007-2009. period. >> By passing this bill, we will make a.

college education possible for hundreds. of thousands of additional students over. the next 5 years. >> And this coincides with a really rapid. increase in the debt that people are. taking on to go to college. We see it. roughly double between the early '90s. and 2020. >> Which is significant, right? Twice the. amount of debt is no small matter. >> It's no small matter and actually we see. that when people max out on their own. debt, their parents even step in to pick. up the difference. So, it's even larger.

than that doubling in some respects. >> Overall, this sounds like a pretty bad. situation. You have a generation of. people who are being told that college. is absolutely necessary, being hyped up. on the importance of it, who then go to. colleges that may not have even existed. for very long, and then graduating from. those schools with loads of debt. And. that is how they enter the job market. >> That's right. And then the whole thing. kind of falls apart around 2008. >> [music]. >> The Great Recession and financial crisis.

hits during this time. Many of people. lose their jobs or have trouble finding. work. >> Right. >> But in a way, this is kind of a uniquely. sharp blow to these young college grads. >> Why? >> Well, because remember, these were the. folks who were probably given the. hardest sell about why they need to go. to college of any generation in history. They had these sky-high expectations. They really thought of college as. something that you should pretty much do. everything you can to attain. And yet,

when they leave college and they enter. the job market with this huge amount of. debt, suddenly they're scrambling to. find jobs that are in line with what. they've studied. We see the unemployment. rate for recent college grads jump to. its highest level in decades. And if you. recall what's going on in 2008 and 2009, debt is just this huge problem. We have. whole financial institutions that are. collapsing under the weight of it. >> The House passes a sprawling $700. billion government rescue of the. financial industry.

>> And what happens is that the government. intervenes very aggressively to bail out. these large financial institutions. >> Bailing out Wall Street is the only way. to save Main Street, so says the. president. >> But for the people who went to college. and who did everything that they thought. they were supposed to do and are stuck. with this debt that's suddenly weighing. them down. >> You know, for us private citizens, nobody's bailing us out, nobody's. helping us. >> There doesn't appear to be a bailout for. them. >> Right, this moment amplifies this sense.

that there are just two tiers of society. in America. There's Wall Street, there's. the ultra-wealthy, and everyone [snorts] else. You're. pointing to a moment in this history. where the economic forces we've been. discussing start to have very visible. political consequences. >> Yeah, this is a moment where the country. really shifts in a kind of populist. direction. On the right, you had the rise of the. Tea Party movement, people who saw the.

government intervene and bail out the. big banks, and really start to turn. against government. And then on the. left, you have this sense that the. government is bailing out the fat cats. and the Wall Street billionaires are. doing great, but the rest of the country. is really struggling and the government. isn't doing much for them. And this really starts to crest with the. Occupy Wall Street movement in 2011.

This was a group of folks who start to. protest in Zuccotti Park in New York. City. >> Right. >> After 30 years of having our living. standards decrease while the wealthiest. 1% have had it better than ever, I think. it's time for maybe, I don't know, some. participation in our democracy. >> They really start to identify the 1% as. the kind of bêtes noires of the country, and it's the other 99% of Americans who. are doing the right thing but getting. left behind by the economy.

>> You know, I went to school a lot of. these people went to school and now that. we're out for the summer or out. completely, there's no jobs. We can't. pay those student loans back and all we. keep hearing from the creditors is we're. lazy. >> And it turns out that young college. grads are a huge part of this movement. There have been studies showing that. about three quarters [music]. of the people involved in Occupy were. college grads. >> Why are other people getting bailed out. and I'm stuck with college loans? Why. can't I get a job that's actually. fulfilling that I like to do? >> And they actually end up elevating. student debt and student loans as a.

major concern of the Occupy movement. And this is a moment where you start to. hear a whole variety of populist chance. that are probably familiar to a lot of. people. There's just a whole new vocabulary that. we hadn't really seen when it came to. economic issues before. >> Yeah, I graduated college in 2011 and.

remember Occupy so well. It was this. thing that really activated college. graduates politically, not just in New. York, but all across the country. There. were Occupy-style protests I remember in. many cities and it felt as though this. was the critical juncture at which the. rage that had been bubbling over. inequality, it became more of a. solidified political identity. >> I think that's right. I think this is a. moment where you have a real shift in.

their consciousness. So, instead of. seeing themselves as the people who were. either at the top or who were going to. be at the top pretty soon, they start to. identify with everyone else. They start. to identify with people who have been. exploited by the people at the top. And of course, the Occupy movement. eventually it out. People leave Zuccotti. Park and they go back to their homes and. their jobs. But this turns out to be the. opening act of a pretty dramatic shift.

that will play out across the next 15. years. It's the beginning of this. realignment in American politics that. really changes the way people who went. to college thought about where their. allegiances lie. >> We'll be right back.

>> [music]. >> So Noam, you said the Occupy movement. was really the opening act for this. political realignment. So what happens. after Occupy, after it fizzles out in. 2011? >> So when it comes to the economy, things. really did stay bad for a really long. time, all the way through the end of the. decade. Employment rates for young. college grads are still pretty low. Wages never really recover. We have this.

thing called scarring, which shows that. if you graduate into a recession, your. earnings can be impacted for 10-15 years. later. And then there's this other big. force that's happening out there in the. job market that's really reinforcing all. the things that young college grads are. experiencing. And that's the. consolidation across a whole bunch of. different industries, in tech, in. retail, healthcare. We're seeing. companies get bigger and bigger. >> Can you just slow down and explain what. you mean by consolidation? >> Yeah, so in a lot of cases you see.

companies merging together. One company. buys another company that it competes. with in some way. If you think back to the early 2010s, for example, you have Facebook buying. Instagram or WhatsApp. And maybe that. could be a good thing for consumers, maybe Facebook invests a lot of money in. building out infrastructure and new. features that consumers really like. But. for workers, that can really reduce the. options that you have about where to. work. And it can actually also be really. frustrating and alienating. Like if you.

think of a computer programmer, maybe. they were at a smaller startup and they. felt like they had a real impact on the. development of the product or even a. role in the mission of the company. But. then suddenly they're working for this. giant company. It's much more. bureaucratic. It makes people feel like. they just have a lot less agency in what. they're doing. >> You're saying consolidation sometimes. leaves workers worse off because as a. worker, you now have fewer options and. less power. >> That's right. And one of the best places.

to see this is actually the healthcare. industry where consolidation really. starts to ramp up in the 2010s. >> Why? What what happened? >> Well, the healthcare industry had been. consolidating for a few decades. But if. you remember one of the big priorities. of the Obama administration when it came. to power in 2009, was to make the. healthcare industry a lot more. efficient. And they did that through big. initiatives like Obamacare and through a. series of regulations that really. accelerated consolidation in the. industry. >> Hmm.

>> And there's actually kind of an irony. here because on one level, Obamacare was. a more populist economic policy. It. really expands healthcare coverage to. millions of Americans who didn't have. it. But on the other hand, it kind of. makes healthcare an industry that's. worse for the people who are working in. it. >> How do you mean? >> Well, one of the wrinkles of Obamacare. and these regulations is that they. actually foist more risk onto individual. hospitals and healthcare systems. So for. example, if patients got a procedure and. didn't do that well after the procedure,

the government might not reimburse the. hospitals as much as they were. expecting. And so the hospitals decide. that the way to protect themselves. against this risk is to get bigger and. bigger. You know, if you're a small. hospital and suddenly the administration. isn't reimbursing you as much as you. thought for different procedures because. your patients aren't doing as well as. you'd hoped, that can really hurt you. financially. But, if you operate dozens. and dozens of hospitals, you're much. more insulated against that risk. >> Mhm. Makes sense.

>> And what happened when these health care. systems got really big is they started. buying up more and more hospitals in. different cities and states. And that. actually created fewer places for people. to work. And this kind of had two. effects. First, if you are a nurse or a. pharmacist or someone who worked in the. back office of a hospital, that really. could have an impact on your wages. because you had fewer potential. employers bidding up the price of your. labor. >> Right. >> And then there was a second [snorts] set. of employees like doctors. And these. folks generally didn't see their wages.

go down, but they were still affected in. other ways that made them really hate. this new arrangement of working for. bigger and bigger health care systems. So, for example, I first covered a group. of who were unionizing at a big health. care system in Oregon in 2015. And one. thing that I heard from them over and. over again is, "We feel like cogs in. some giant medical industrial complex. We might as well be factory workers. They're governed by MBAs and bean. counters who are suddenly telling them.

how much time they can spend with their. patients, how long they can keep. patients in the hospital, what they have. to ask them when they talk to them." And. these are people who have often trained. for years and years. >> Right. >> The thing that they pride themselves on. is their professional judgment, the. ability to evaluate a situation, to. apply the best treatment, and suddenly. they feel like they're being. micromanaged by people who have no. medical expertise to speak of. So, it's. incredibly alienating. >> Yeah, I mean, it sounds like you.

basically have the most educated people. in society, almost, doctors, starting to. feel more like laborers. They don't have. that control, they don't have the. stature that they thought they were. getting when they got that MD. >> Yeah. And what you start to see is that. a lot of highly trained white-collar. workers who at one point had thought of. themselves as management-adjacent, they. start to in a lot of cases identify as. just kind of rank and file employees who. were bossed around by management.

>> Mhm. >> And then. >> Today, I am proud to announce my candidacy for. president of the United States of. America. >> It's at this point in 2016 that all. these grievances start to coalesce into. a mainstream political figure. And that. figure, at least on the left, is Bernie. Sanders. >> The issue of wealth and income. inequality. is the great moral issue of our time. It. is the great economic issue of our time.

It is the great political issue of our. time. And we will address it. >> Sanders, the independent senator from. Vermont, comes along and sort of enters. the stage talking about the 99% versus. the 1% and how the bosses and the. billionaires are dominating the. political system in ways that are not. aligned with the interests of ordinary. workers. >> It is insane. It is counterproductive. to the best interest of our country that.

hundreds of thousands of bright young. people cannot afford to go to college. and that millions of others leave school. with a mountain of debt that burdens. them for decades. [cheering]. >> And in ways that might not have been. imaginable a few decades earlier, a lot. of college grads, and especially younger. college grads, really start to identify. with that language. >> So, the rise of Bernie Sanders and his. political appeal within this class of.

highly educated people that you've been. looking at, that is a manifestation of. the shift that you've been talking. about. It seems as though Bernie both. reflects this growing left-wing populism. among college grads, but he also may be. driving it, just like Occupy did, helping to solidify that identity. >> I think that's right. Of course, we all. know that Hillary Clinton goes on to win. the Democratic presidential nomination, but you see Sanders really outperform.

with young people and especially with. young college graduates. Overall, he. loses to Hillary Clinton by a small. margin among college grads, but among. young college grads, college grads under. 30, he crushes her by a two-to-one. margin. And more broadly, what you see. Sanders doing is really giving voice to. the sense of grievance on the national. political stage. This sense that the. economy just isn't working for them. >> We have. no choice but to liberate working people.

from economic marginalization. and make sure that every person in this. country gets a living wage and health. care as a right. >> It's not too long after Bernie that we. see Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez win a. congressional seat in New York City. >> Yep. >> And it was literally easier for me to. become the youngest woman in American. history elected to Congress than it is. to pay off my student loan debt. >> And she's very much of this demographic.

and supported by this demographic. >> The red socialist flag is held proudly. as the Democratic Socialists of America. or DSA are going door-to-door for. >> a huge increase in the number of young. college grads who are joining the. Democratic Socialists of America, which. goes from about 5,000 members in the. United States before 2016 to nearly. 100,000 members by the end of the. decade, a majority of them young college. educated people. >> We didn't grow up sort of with the red.

scare, um and so the word doesn't scare. us as much. Um. >> We see support for socialism really rise. among college-educated folks, and. especially young college-educated folks, basically doubling support between 2010. and 2020, from about 20% to about 40%. And of course, last year in New York. City, >> For as long as we can remember, the working people of New York have been. told by the wealthy and the. well-connected that power does not. belong in their hands.

>> We saw Zohran Mamdani run away with the. mayor's race with a huge burst of. support from young college grads. If you. look at college grads under 30 in New. York City, 84% of them supported Zohran. Mamdani. >> I am young, despite my best efforts to. grow older. I am Muslim. I am A DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST. AND MOST. DAMNING OF ALL, I refuse to apologize. for any of this. >> And so what we really see is the long.

tail of all this economic upheaval that. college grads have been dealing with for. decades come to fruition at this moment. and create all this momentum behind. candidates and ideas that would have. almost been unthinkable before the. financial crisis and great recession. >> [music]. >> Okay, now at the beginning of this. conversation, you said economic forces. weren't the only thing driving this. populism on the left among this cohort. So, can we turn to some of the other.

forces for a minute? Ideological, cultural. One theory that I've seen, which I know you've also engaged with, for why America's college-educated. population has moved to the left is that. the demographics of this group have just. fundamentally changed. This is an. argument that Eric Levitz of Vox made in. his review of your book. He says, "Increasingly, the population of college. grads is more female and less white. And. because women and non-white voters tend.

to be more progressive in their views, that's why we're seeing this leftward. shift.". What do you make of that argument? >> [snorts]. >> There's definitely something to this. We've seen more women and more people of. color get college degrees, and we know. historically they tend to be more. liberal than white people and men. But, actually, if you only look at white male. college grads during this period, you. also see them move pretty sharply to the. left, too. So, it's not just a matter of. the changing demographics. The same.

profile of person is actually moving to. the left. >> So, given that, is it possible that it's. the college education itself that's. helping drive students to the left? We. know that colleges as institutions have. been moving to the left in recent years. It seems plausible that has an effect on. how students' political identities are. shaped. >> I think that's a really fair point. We. know from a lot of data, including a. recent report by Yale University, that.

the ideological composition of faculty. members has really shifted over the past. generation or two. So, in the late '80s, less than half of faculty members. identified as liberal, and a generation. later, in the mid-2010s, it was well. over half, around 60%. And if you look. at the partisan composition, these days. Democrats tend to outnumber Republicans. among college faculty members by about. 10 to 1, which is an incredibly stark. difference. >> Yeah, wow. >> I think there's there's something going. on there. It's probably not the whole.

story, though. >> Okay, got it. I There's another thing. that I've been thinking about, Noam, which is couldn't college graduates be. moving to the left on economic issues, not actually purely because of their. economic circumstances, but rather. because they're identifying with the. left on a range of issues that really. matter to them. Things like abortion or. race politics. And then once they're in. that tribe, they're also adopting the.

economic platform. >> I do think there's some truth to that. If you look at research on when college. grads started moving to the left, it. does start to happen around 2004, a few. years before the Great Recession. But. you actually see a much, much sharper. movement to the left after the Great. Recession. So I think the most intuitive. reading of the research is that there. was some kind of cultural politics that. was pushing college grads to the left, but that the real shift happens after.

the bottom falls out of the economy in. 2008. It's just hard to overstate how. destabilizing the Great Recession was. for American politics. >> It's also just worth acknowledging that. even if a college grad may feel more. like the working class economically. speaking, they aren't ironically voting. more like working class people who. didn't go to college in America because. those people have actually moved to the. right. Most of them voted for Trump in.

the past three presidential elections. Of course, in those elections Democrats. didn't put forward an economic populist. to contend with Trump. But when faced. with the options they had, the working class chose the Republican. in the race. >> It is absolutely the case that since. about 2012, we've seen this so-called. diploma divide open up where college. grads tend to vote for the Democrat and. people without a degree tend to vote for.

the Republican. That gap has gotten. larger since then. >> Mhm. >> But one thing that you have to keep in. mind is that actually on economic. issues, on whether you want to tax the. rich or whether you support unions or if. you think the government should have a. big role in healthcare or in regulating. other industries. People who graduated. from college and people who didn't have. actually been moving closer and closer. together over the past 20 years. What we. really see is that these elections just.

haven't been fought on those issues. They've largely been fought on cultural. issues, issues like diversity or LGBTQ. rights or immigration and race. And on. those issues, you tend to see this big. divide between college grads and. non-grads. What's interesting is that. even on this subset of issues, college. grads and non-grads are not living in. two completely different universes. So, we saw that during the Biden years, for. example,

college grads actually moved closer to. non-grads on immigration. They became. much more skeptical of immigration, much. more restrictionist, and their voting. preferences really started to come. closer to people without a degree. We. saw something similar with crime where. in the 2010s, people with degrees were. not very concerned about crime, while. people with degrees were very concerned. But by the 2024 election, they had moved. much more closely toward where people.

without a degree were. So, even on these. so-called cultural issues, these. non-economic issues, we've actually seen. some convergence that suggests that. these two groups of people don't have so. little in common that they can't even. talk to one another. >> Just to raise something that we haven't. discussed yet, I want to ask about AI, which is an economic force that we. haven't yet seen fully play out, but. which I could imagine would also have an. impact and perhaps is already having an. impact on college-educated people,

especially recent grads and their. political identity. The AI revolution may ultimately hurt. college more than the working class. So, how do you think about this massive. technological shift and its potential. effect on the political realignment that. you've studied? >> Yeah, I really think it's going to add. to this sense that college grads are. workers just like people without a. degree who are at the mercy of. executives and big powerful companies. I.

think one thing that we're seeing with. AI is that it's spreading that sense of. powerlessness to a whole variety of. white-collar workers that hadn't really. been affected by this before. So, whether you're talking about lawyers or. people in banking, in finance, or. consulting, or marketing, or sales, suddenly all these folks are now having. to contend with AI and with the leverage. that that gives their employers and with. the lack of leverage that they suddenly. have in their own jobs when they can see. that a machine can do their work almost.

as well, if not better, than they can. >> And what are the political consequences. of that? >> I think it's a little hard to say what. the political consequences are going to. be over the next 5 or 10 years, but one. thing that I can say with certainty is. that I've really seen in my own. reporting how radicalizing the shift can. be. I report a lot on tech workers and. their relationship to their companies. and their bosses, and just over the past. few years, amid the rise of AI, I've. just seen this incredible anger kind of. ricocheting across the internet and in.

channels where they typically. congregate. It used to be that these. folks really that their companies had. their best interest at heart. They. thought [snorts] that they had good. relationships with their bosses. They. wanted to be their bosses. And as these. big tech companies have laid people off. and have cited all the ways that AI is. changing their jobs and how many workers. they need, these folks, they're really. lashing out in ways that I've never. seen. And I think that's only going to. be exacerbated as we see these companies.

worth hundreds of billions or even. trillions of dollars go public in a way. that's really accruing to just a small. portion of very affluent, very rich. owners and founders of these companies. and leaving behind tens of thousands of. people who've been laid off just in the. last year or two amid the rise of AI. >> [music]. >> So, we don't know when exactly this will. have a political effect or how large. that political effect will be, but I. think we can say that this dividing line. between the 1% and the 99% is as stark.

as it's ever been. And I would guess that it's only going. to get starker going forward. >> [music]. >> Well, Noam, thank you so much. >> Thanks for having me. >> [music]. >> Noam Scheiber's book is called Mutiny: The Rise and Revolt of the. College-Educated Working Class.

We'll be right back. >> [music]. >> Here's what else you need to know today. >> [music]. >> The US launched a new wave of air. strikes on Iran hours after President. Trump vowed to keep up military pressure. on Tehran because Iranian leaders were. taking, quote, too long to negotiate. [music]. Earlier US strikes on Wednesday. destroyed what appears to be a drinking.

water facility on Iran's southern coast. near the Strait of Hormuz, according to. an analysis by the [music] New York. Times. A local official said that water was cut. off to more than 20,000 people. >> [music]. >> living in a town and villages nearby. Temperatures in the area have reached. above 100° F. this week. >> [music]. >> It's unclear if the US intentionally. struck the water facility. Deliberately targeting civilian. infrastructure could constitute a war.

crime. >> [music]. >> under international law. Today's episode was [music] produced by. Stella Tan, Ricky Newetsky, and Olivia. Nat. It was edited by Lisa Chow, [music]. fact-checked by Will Peischel, and. contains music by Mary Ann Lozano, Dan. Powell, [music]. Diane Wong, Rowan Nimisto, and Alicia. BAE Tube. Our theme music [music] is by Wonderly. This episode was engineered by Chris. Wood. Special thanks to Joe [music]. Lensky, the Roper Center for Public.

Opinion Research, Jon Della Volpe, and. Mark [music] Kantrowitz. >> [music]. >> That's it for The Daily. I'm Natalie. Kitroeff. See you tomorrow.