The V.P.’s Search for a V.P.

from New York Times I'm Michael babbaro. this is the. [Music]. daily today what vice president kamla. Harris is looking for in a running mate. and the challenge of making that choice. in record. time my colleague National political. correspondent Lisa Lair takes us inside. the selection process.

it's Tuesday July. [Music]. 30th so Lisa we turn to you to give us. as much insight as possible into a. pretty unusual situation which is the. search for a running mate by kamla. Harris a Presidential nominee who up. until a week ago.

was herself the running M so she was the. thing that she now needs to go out and. to find that's exactly right Harris is. trying to replace herself in a way on. the ticket and this is so so unusual I. mean not only is unusual to have a woman. who is vice president picking her own. vice president but the timeline is just. extraordinarily short her campaign has. said that she's likely to make this. decision by August 7th so that's about. what 10 days from today or so in total I.

think this will be about a 2 3 week. process and that's just incredibly short. to make what's likely to be arguably one. of the most consequential decisions of. her candidacy and should she win her. presidency right and we should say and. you and I know this we've covered many. presidential campaigns and vice. presidential searches traditionally this. is a process that takes months and. months and months oh yeah this is a. process that goes on for quite a long. time AIDS and candidates generally they.

start thinking about it during the. primary process before they've. necessarily even won the nomination for. example in 2016 when Hillary Clinton. ended up being the nominee there was. reporting that showed she began. discussions with her AIDS about this as. early as March before she even finalized. that she had won the Primary against. Bernie Sanders and then of course Tim. Kaine wasn't announced until 4 months. later in July so this was quite an. extend process and there's vetting and.

there's interviews and there's trial. balloons and this is a whole serious. process that goes on for a really long. time and now the campaign and really the. entire country is hyper driving this in. about two weeks right and we should add. that this rapid timeline is dictated by. when Democratic delegates are holding a. roll call vote to confirm their. presidential and vice presidential. nomination but I'm curious what kind of. r risk that timeline May introduce into.

the traditional vetting process for a. running maid a vetting process that. takes a long time because it's supposed. to take a long time to really vet. somebody right this is a process that is. designed to mitigate as much risk as. possible and of course that's impossible. in a presidential campaign given how. events can overtake the best laid. strategies but the more time they have. to investigate someone the better I mean.

the first and most important rule in. this whole vice presidential process is. Do no harm that you don't want to bring. someone in who's going to tank the. ticket in some way either because. they're unprepared or because there's. some skeleton in the closet so they. collect reams of information from each. candidate from their legal documents. financial documents sometimes they get. private investigators to dig into their. background there's a series of. interviews with AIDS with with the.

canate themselves they vet their policy. positions to see where they agree and. disagree with the candate what they've. said in the past so this is a really. deep dive but this year it's more like a. little Polar Bear. Plunge right it just cannot be what it. has been in the past given this. [Music]. timeline so let's talk about given those. accelerated. circumstances what we understand to be.

KLA Harris's criteria as best we. understand it for a running mate what. she's looking for and what has emerged. as her priorities when she picks a. number two well to start with I think we. should establish here that it's a little. more difficult this year for us to get. as in this process as it's typically. been because it's so fast it's been. really tightly held she doesn't even. have a full campaign team she's. inherited the Biden team right now her. staff is still figuring out what roles.

everybody is going to have in this new. operation so this isn't the sort of. normal process where there's a ton of. leaks and it all comes out and the. circle is really big and we can really. get in there you're saying Lisa that. this is a hard journalistic undertaking. that we should give you some patience. here yeah I think this is look VP is. always a hard journalistic undertaking. because it's something that the campaign. wants to announce on their own time and. you're trying to figure it out before. they're ready to tell you however. there's usually a lot of people around.

who hear things who want to talk it's a. major you know Washington Rumor Mill. thing and what do political people love. more than gossip I have to tell you not. much but this year the circle of Gossip. is a lot smaller and that makes it much. more speculative than it even normally. is but that being said we can tell from. the names that we've seen coming out one. way that certainly Harris and her team. are thinking about this and we are sort. of relying a little bit on our own. understanding of how how this process.

has worked in the past which is this. idea that you have to balance the ticket. well just explain that concept well part. of this means doing a careful assessment. of what your candidate is and isn't and. thinking about how to fill those gaps so. for example if you had a candidate who's. an older man you probably want to go. with someone younger if you have a. candidate who is from a liberal State. maybe you want to go with someone from a. more conservative State and the goal of. this is to obviously broaden the appeal. of the ticket you don't necessarily want.

to double down on what you have you want. to find a way to bring more voters into. the fold so let's run this exercise. through Harris which is what we know is. part of what her AIDS and the people. around her are doing Harris is of course. a woman she's of course from this very. very liberal state California and she's. of course a black woman so what does. that mean and we see what that means. from the names that we're hearing are. sort of in the top tier of people who. are being considered it means her St is.

looking at someone who's maybe from a. less liberal State probably a. Battleground state it means they're. looking at men and it means really that. what they're looking at is white men. right which is interesting of course. because that description is quite. literally the inverse of what Joe Biden. did when looking for a running mate back. in 2020 to balance his ticket he said by. the end of that selection process I am. going to pick a black woman right and. look they're dealing with really. different concerns turns here for Biden.

it was a question of representing the. entire country and more importantly the. entirety of the democratic party which. is a really diverse party of which black. voters are a backbone of that party so. his team and the president felt that. they had to Encompass the entirety of. the Coalition that they were hoping to. win over to get into the White House for. Harris this is a really different. calculation and part of this calculation. is a question of what America is ready. for is America ready for a ticket that. two women or has two people of color and.

the answer from a lot of Democrats that. we hear is no that that is too risky of. a ticket and America will not go there. that one historic first is about as far. as the country is willing to go and is. the sort of risk that they are willing. to take here so according to that logic. even picking a female running mate from. a Battleground State and here of course. I'm thinking about someone like Governor. Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan probably. doesn't make sense if focused on.

balancing the ticket that's an active. debate in the party and so there's. plenty of Democrats who say let's go big. and that they the party should just go. for it go for two women do something. that would really make a statement about. what they think the future of America. could be but then there's a counters. side to this and I think that. counterside includes many of people who. are in the Harris campaign who say. presidential campaigns are about winning. and they're not necessarily about making. a statement and that as you say might. just be too risky we should say that.

President Trump has made a very. different calculation his strategy what. he thinks is going to win this race is. picking a running mate who is very much. himself looking in the mirror JD Vance a. kind of mini version of Donald Trump AA. hard right Republican and another white. dude that's exactly right as Trump often. does he threw out the conventional. wisdom you know on vice presidential. picks and doubled down on as you say. himself and picked in vance a guy that. could really carry the mantle of Maga.

trumpism into a new generation and. frankly the first few weeks haven't gone. all that well Vance has had a tough. debut he's had a number of awkward. public appearances I had a Diet Mountain. Dew yesterday and one today I'm sure. they're going to call that racist too. but it's. good I love you guys. he's gotten blowback as Democrats have.

brought out comments that he made years. ago we're effectively run in this. country via the Democrats be via our. corporate oligarchs by a bunch of. childless cat ladies who are miserable. at their own lives and the choices that. they've made and so they most centrally. these attacks on childless women and. whether they should have the same voting. rights as people with kids you should. have more power you should have more of. an ability to speak your voice in our. Democratic Republic than people who. don't have kids let's and he's faced.

criticism not only from Democrats of. course but even some Republicans who. have questioned whether Trump made the. right choice here and whether Vance was. experienced and tested enough to really. be an asset to the Republican Party. ticket for Harris that means that she is. now picking someone with the awareness. of the weakness that Vance has brought. to the Trump ticket and she's going to. be really looking for someone who can. draw out and highlight those weaknesses. and really if at all possible in her. mind make them more politically.

detrimental so in that sense despite the. short timeline Harris actually has a. fair amount of information and perhaps. most importantly an advantage in her. effort to select a running. mate we'll be right. back Lisa assuming that vice president. Harris has made this untrumping. calculation that balancing the ticket is.

the best course and that that is her. Advantage she's going to exploit it talk. us through the top contenders who fit. that bill who would balance the ticket. according to your reporting and how they. help her balance a ticket and what might. keep them from getting the job if they. don't so there's a top tier of. contenders here who are about five. different candidates and the easiest way. to think about it is there's two from. swing States and three from non swing. States M and that's a a really important.

distinction because as we know the. presidential race is won or lost in this. handful of crucially important. Battleground States about seven of them. so the two from the swing states are. Josh Shapiro who's the governor of. Pennsylvania and Mark Kelly the senator. from Arizona and actually up until just. a few hours ago there was a third swing. state Contender Governor Roy Cooper of. North Carolina but we just reported. tonight that he withdrew his name from. consideration as they say this is a. fluid story yeah a very fluid story at.

least for the next n or 10 days MH and. then in the non swing state category we. have Andy Basher who's the governor of. Kentucky Tim Walls the governor of. Minnesota and Pete Buddha judge who's. the transportation Secretary of course. I'm sure a lot of listeners know from. when he ran against Harris in the. Democratic Primary in 2019 got it okay. so that is a very long list yes of white. men correct some from swing States like. you said some not from swing States.

let's start with the contenders from. those Battleground States so why don't. we start with the senator on the list. who of course is Senator Mark Kelly of. Arizona you know growing up we didn't. have a lot of money my parents were both. cops and they taught me about public. service part of what Kelly brings to the. ticket is this really compelling. personal story I spent 25 years in the. United States Navy as a combat pilot and. as an astronaut he's a former combat. veteran a former astronaut he married.

Gabby gards who at the time was a. congresswoman from Arizona Gabby was. injured shot in the head in 2011 and she. suffered a serious traumatic brain. injury and she was shot in an act of. political violence several years later. in her District he stood by her side. he's helped her convalesce he's become. an advocate for gun control through that. process uh so we formed an organization. to try to make communities and help. communities become safer you know safer. from gun VI but he's also someone from.

perhaps one of the sest of Swing States. a deep purple State that's at the. Forefront of the political map not only. because of its demographic composition. which includes a lot of Latino voters. but also because it's a border state. when it comes to border security mean. I've been focused on this and on. immigration yes we need comprehensive. immigration reform and he's someone. who's really developed a real expertise. in Immigration in the Border you know. when I got to uh Washington DC one of.

the first things I realized was that. Democrats don't understand this issue. and Republicans just want to talk about. it and complain about it but actually. not do anything about it they just want. to politicize that and that's an area. that's seen as a weakness for vice. president Harris so he could help. balance the ticket in that way so he. balances the ticket in both a. biographical and a policy way it seems. that's exactly right and part of his. drawback is actually related to his.

biggest strength here which is that he. is someone who's known for winning these. tough races in these purple States so. pulling him out and putting him on the. ticket should Harris win means that. Democrats would have to deal with an. open seat in Arizona in a couple years. from now actually in the midterm. elections of what would be the first. Harris term and of course an open seat. is always a harder race to win than a. seat where you have a relatively popular. incumbent so the risk is that Harris. might pick Kelly and take someone out of.

the Senate she might need if she were to. become president exactly right and they. could risk losing that seat in Arizona. got it that leaves us with the other. swing state Contender on the list Josh. Shapiro of Pennsylvania. right so I got a message to Donald Trump. stop shitalking. America this. is this is the greatest country on the. face of the Earth let's start acting. like it what Shapiro brings is he's.

someone that has confronted trumpism. very head-on he keeps talking us down. and he keeps trying to rip away our. fundamental freedoms and that's. something Democrats really like to see. we had an historic win he defeated this. really conservative mag of Republican. and what was pretty much a blowout. election for such a swing state in 2022. to become governor by way of background. before I was governor I was attorney. general I sued him over the Muslim. banner I sued him over over so many.

different things in one nearly every. time and then during and before that he. was attorney general in Pennsylvania. where he confronted the Trump. Administration he was involved with. lawsuits over the Trump administration's. election denialism in Pennsylvania so. he's someone who's really gone after. Maga. republicanism but despite those. high-profile fights against trumpism in. office Shapiro has really governed as a. bipartisan figure he's worked across the. aisle with Republicans I'm going to ask. you all to turn your attention here to.

the Northbound Lanes of I95 in a most. high-profile incident after a section of. I95 collapsed because of a fire he. worked with the legislature with the. unions with contractors with the federal. government to really rebuild that in. about two weeks right it was seen as an. unusually good example of Effective. Government in a country where government. is not seen as effective exactly it was. really praised it got him a lot of good. press and it sort of put him on the map.

as this political figure who could be. more than just someone going after the. Trump Administration okay so what would. be the drawback of Shapiro because so. far it seems like he very much lives in. Harris's wheelhouse fellow prosecutor. good at going after Trump but balancing. the ticket in terms of gender and. Battleground State appeal why might she. not pick him the challenge for Shapiro. really stems from his personal biography. govern Governor Shapiro is an observant.

Jew who identifies himself as a liberal. Zionist there is no moral equivalency. between Hamas and Israel he's been. outspoken both about his faith and about. some of what's been going on in Israel. in the war against Gaza we can't allow. peaceful protest to be an excuse for. anti-Semitism or islamophobia on these. campuses he's spoken out against the. campus protest but he's also spoken out. against APAC but at a time when the war.

in Gaza has really divided and royed the. Democratic party there's some concerns. about how he'll be received by some. parts of the party's liberal base and. some Democrats are worried about whether. America is ready to elect a black woman. at the top of the ticket with a Jewish. man and I think a lot of Democrats wish. this was something that they didn't have. to talk about but the reality is based. on many of my conversations they believe. it is something that they have to be. concerned about okay let's focus now on.

the nons swing state contenders to be. Harris's running bit well so first up on. that list is Governor Andy Basher of. Kentucky we have been through a lot. together a global pandemic tornadoes. flooding wind storms ice storms yet here. we stand on the biggest best economic wi. streak this state has ever seen what he. brings to the ticket is he is a popular. Democratic governor from a deep red. rural State and obviously that's a very.

unusual position right now in American. politics and so there's some thinking. that he could help Democrats with this. demographic that's been a consistent. problem for them for many years now. which is rural workingclass white voters. you have someone who can really go. toe-to-toe with attacking Trump and. Vance with this important demographic. listen JD Vance is is a phony he he. ain't from here he is not from Kentucky. and he's really proven self pretty deaf.

in the past two weeks or so as this. attack Doug particularly when it comes. to Vance I mean he first says that that. Donald Trump is like Hitler and and now. he's acting like he's Lincoln I mean the. problem with JD Vance is he has no. conviction but I guess his running mate. has 34 but what works against Basher is. related to what works for him which is. that Kentucky is not a state that. Democrats are going to win in this. election it's just not even on the map. for them and frankly white rural.

workingclass voters particularly male. voters are not a demographic they're. going to win either so this is more. about the possibility of cutting some of. their losses than winning over a crucial. swing state or you know a really crucial. demographic fascinating okay I think. that brings us to Governor walls of. Minnesota which is like Kentucky not. exactly a swing state no Minnesota of. course is a very liberal State when that. Democrats are not particularly concerned. about holding in this presidential. election these guys are just weird.

that's where they are so it a it is much. else don't give them the power look are. they a threat to democracy yes are they. going to take our rights away yes are. they going but what walls brings is he's. been this really effective messenger for. the party particularly in the last two. weeks since the possibility of Harris. picking a vice president became real. he's really been out there leading on. some new lines of democratic attack the. fascists depend on fear the fascist. depend on us going back but we're not.

afraid of weird people. no we we're a little bit creeped out but. we're not. afraid most centrally that Republicans. are in his words just too weird her. America can you just explain that. because it does seem like it's sticking. a little bit it does seem like it's. sticking and it's a way to capture. something that Democrats have been. trying in a lot of different ways to do. for years now which is paint Republicans. as conservative extremists who are out.

of touch with where mainstream America. is in terms of abortion rights or. same-sex marriage or families all kinds. of issues like that that are really. intimate issues for voters and Walt has. done it effectively and we've seen this. weird attack line be picked up across. the party Donald Trump has been. resorting to some wild lies about my. record and some of what he and his. running mate are saying well it's just. playing weird but beyond this new weird.

message he has a compelling biography as. a small town kid turns Soldier football. coach teacher husband and dad never did. I Envision before you uh before that I. would be here and standing as your. Minnesota's 41st Governor I know and. neither did you believe that so um he's. a former teacher he's a former veteran. he's someone who comes across as a real. midwesterner which of course he is an. accent he's doing press conferences in a.

T-shirt and that kind of regional. affiliation matters because of course. Michigan Wisconsin are really really. important states on the presidential map. H interesting so he might not be the. governor of a swing state but his appeal. extends to those Midwestern swing States. you just mentioned and that could be. very powerful potentially yeah he's in a. swing state offendy group here in terms. of you know region and all of that the. drawback with him is that is you point. out Michael Minnesota is not a swing.

state is in fact a very liberal State. and as governor of this very liberal. State he's championed some fairly. liberal policies he legalized. recreational marijuana he protected. access to gender affirming care for. transgender people and these are. policies that might not provide the. balance that Harris may be looking for. given that she is from a liberal state. California herself okay I think finally. we have secretary. budajudge so secretary Pete budajudge.

who's head of the transportation. department really stems from his success. on cable news now joining us also Fresh. Off The Campaign Trail Pete budha judge. uh he's appearing today in his personal. capacities so no disrespect he someone. who goes on Fox News which some. Democrats won't do and counters. Republican talking points in this way. that gets a lot of traction Donald Trump. made a promise when he was a candidate. one of the few promises he actually kept. by the way you know he didn't keep his.

promise of 6% economic growth he didn't. keep his promise to dra to deal with. well but even before the pandemic even. before the pandemic America he has this. ability to see a viral moment and seize. on it whether it's you know dealing with. Airline fees because everyone's always. mad at the airlines or it's refuting. Republican talking points he kept his. promise to destroy the right to choose. in this country and if you want to know. what a second Trump term would be like I. would start by looking at those rare. promises that he actually managed to.

keep he did say that he wanted to get. rid of roie Wade but again send it to. the states where they are the states. toate women's access to abortion and. also as you know the Republican Party. continues to be interested in a National. Abortion heed completely yeah he's. disavowed a lot of things I don't. believe him and that's made him really. beloved among large quarters of the. democratic base who of course know him. quite well from his primary run four. years ago mhm but what could hold him. back is in fact another issue of how.

much history is America willing to make. I the experience of being in a marriage. that exists by the grace of a single. vote on the US Supreme Court he's of. course a very high-profile gay man he's. married he has two kids and it's just as. some Democrats worry about the history. making potential of Governor Shapiro. they also worry about whether America is. really ready to elect a gay man but. there's another issue too Buddha judge. is really a liberal hero he's someone.

who's risen to prominence through his. support in Liberal America and in a. lineup where so many of the potential. candidates appeal to moderate and. conservatives that may not be something. that Buddha judge really brings to the. ticket Lisa given that vice president. Harris starts this general election. behind Trump not as much as perhaps. before or as much as Biden but still a. little bit behind I guess the question. becomes are any of these non swing state. contenders so compelling that it's worth.

not choosing a running mate who might. help deliver one of these Electoral. College vote Rich Battleground states do. we know anything about whether that. question is at the heart of her. decisionmaking or does she not care. about that at all I think it's hard to. totally know it is a governing choice of. course but you're not governing if you. don't get elected so this is at its core. above all a political choice so if you. were Harris and you have the opportunity. to help yourself win Pennsylvania or.

Arizona it's hard to see that you would. just quickly give that up mhm it feels. like there's a potential X Factor in. this decision that might be guiding vice. president Harris's decision that I want. to run by you as we conclude this. conversation and that's the reality that. Harris is the sitting vice president she. knows the office of the vice presidency. knows its possibilities and all its. frustrating limitations and that I have. to expect might have a very strong. effect on how she makes this decision.

and perhaps might even outweigh a lot of. the other factors we're talking about. here around strategy I mean like you. said yes you have to win in order to. govern but she especially understands. the governing side of this job right. she's clearly dealing with a checklist. here that's really hard for anyone who. has not been in the position of vice. president to understand and based on. this crazy experience that just happened. to her where she suddenly became at the. top of the ticket she knows that you. need someone who's not only going to be.

ready on day one to take over the job if. a catastrophe ensues but also someone. that she's going to have to live with. for four or even eight years she's going. to work closely with the President and. Vice President is a very can be a very. difficult or a very intimate. relationship we've seen both models and. there are people on this list that she. knows better than others two of them she. served as a state attorney general. alongside uh Josh Shapiro and Andy. Basher they they were both attorney. generals at the same time as she was MH.

but she also knows something else based. on how her life has changed over the. past two weeks and she knows that. effectively she will be picking the. person who when her time in the. political stage ends whether that's in. November or that's in four years or. that's in 8 years she is effectively. anointing her successor she is picking. the person that Democrats will look to. as the next in line and as the person. who will carry on the mantle of whatever.

her political career becomes right and. she has to decide all of that in. basically 10 days yeah you know no big. deal just make the biggest political. decision of your career the future your. party potentially the country in 10 days. just knock it out on your to-do list. pick running mate check. well Lisa thank you very much we.

appreciate it thanks for having. [Music]. me we'll be right. back here's what else you need to know. today I have great respect for our. institutions and the separation of. powers laid out in our. constitution but what's happening now is. not consistent with that do. during a speech on Monday in Texas.

President Biden unveiled a plan to bring. sweeping changes to the US Supreme Court. they include creating an enforceable. code of ethics and creating 18-year term. limits for justices. extremism is undermining the public. confidence in the Court's decisions the. plan has little chance of becoming law. but seeks to reign in the power of a. court that has moved further and further. to the right on everything from abortion.

to affirmative action and shown a. greater and greater willingness to. disregard its own. [Music]. precedence and Venezuela's authoritarian. leader Nicholas Maduro has declared. victory in his reelection bid despite. accusations of widespread fraud in. response officials in the United States. and many Latin American countries Den Ed. maduro's claim of Victory and sought.

Precinct by Precinct voting data to. verify the. [Music]. results today's episode was produced by. Michael Simon Johnson Ricky nety and CLA. tennis gutter it was edited by Liz o. Balin contains original music by Mar and. Lozano and was engineered by Chris Wood. our theme music is by Jim Brun and Ben. lansburg of. [Music].

[Music]. wonderly that's it for the daily I'm. Michael Boro see you tomorrow. [Music].