The TikTok Flip-Flop

well this might actually be it my last. ever Tik Tok. video it has been fun. [Music]. here from The New York Times I'm Sabrina. tavernes and this is the. daily well guys this might be the end of. an. era over the past few weeks users of the. popular video app Tik Tok brace. themselves I made so many friends and. memories on here I'm going to miss you. guys so so much and I'm really going to.

miss it and I'm really going to miss you. for a national ban to take. effect no it's actually cold what the I. I was like 10 this weekend it did and. the app went. dark say bye hopefully we have a miracle. and we get to keep Tik Tok but it's not. looking good for. us but less than 24 hours later it came. back crediting Donald Trump with. flicking the switch.

thank you soon to be president Trump I. know I'm happy to be back I'm sure a lot. of you guys are as well I love you guys. and I will see you in the next one today. my colleague subna maheswari on the. biggest social media ban in American. history and whether Trump can actually. stop. it TI tock tick tock tick. tock yes. yes wow it's Monday January 20th oh my.

God thank. you sa now welcome back to the Daily. thanks for having me so we're talking on. Sunday afternoon and this morning. millions of Americans woke up to find. that Tik Tok the video platform with 170. million users was no longer working the. US government ban that's been talked. about for months was finally here but. then as we were preparing to tape this. episode with you the app went back. online you are a Tik Tok expert help us.

understand what's going on here so yes. it was a huge deal last night when Tik. Tok went dark it stopped working for. people nobody knew what was happening. and you saw people posting cheerful. goodbye videos um at first then you. couldn't see anything you saw the App. Store just start changing as people. started rushing to this new Chinese app. called red note um you saw people. posting to Instagram on Instagram reals. on Blue Sky just turning to everywhere.

they could to share how stunned and. shocked they were essentially fleeing. the app because they could no longer. post there yeah exactly it was like. digital refugees just trying to figure. out where do we go to post now that this. app that we use so much is suddenly gone. but then 12 hours that's how long this. lasted do you know how stressed I've. been around 12:30 p.m. today the app. came back TI Tok back but yeah if you. haven't heard we back now um just ignore.

the last week of everything I've been. saying and people have been freaking out. they're really excited and mind you I. slept through it but the situation is. really fluid we don't know what's going. to happen we're talking early afternoon. Sunday and when I wake up tomorrow I. really don't know what the situation. will be okay so let's talk about how we. got here and I'll remind listeners that. Tik Tok is owned by bite dance which is. a Chinese company it had tried to fight. the ban all the way to the Supreme Court.

tell us what happened right so last year. Congress passed this law saying that Tik. Tok had to be sold by bite dance their. owner to a non-chinese company and this. law offered this deadline to make sure. that b dance and Tik Tok did it said it. has to be sold by January 19th or some. sort of talks have to be underway or the. company will face a ban in the United. States and what was the thinking behind. making it sell the company so for years.

lawmakers have had these National. Security concerns around Tik Tok they're. kind of in two camps one they've said. that us user data could be handed over. to the Chinese government based on laws. that apply to companies in China the. other piece of it is lawmakers have said. that there's a chance that Tik Tok could. spread Chinese propaganda to millions of. Americans without their knowledge and. the governments had these concerns for. years dating back to at least 2020 and.

this is the first time they really. passed a law that was going to do. something about it and the company as I. remember from your telling actually. objected on the basis of free speech. that Free Speech meant that it should be. allowed to continue operating but on. Friday as you're saying the Supreme. Court actually decided against the. company and upheld the ban which of. course brings us to the situation we. found ourselves in this morning that's. right Tik Tok said from when this. legislation was first introduced that.

they would beat it that it was. unconstitutional that it violated the. Free Speech rights of Tik Tok users in. America and they gambled all the way to. the Supreme Court and astoundingly the. Supreme Court decided on Friday. unanimously that the government had the. right to implement this law and to ban. Tik Tok if it didn't sell and so what. happened after the court made that. decision the court comes out with this. decision.

on Friday January 17th this law is. supposed to go into effect 2 days later. on January 19th so Saturday night users. of Tik Tok start seeing this pop-up. message appear and it says that. specifically we are fortunate that. President Trump has indicated that he. will work with us on a solution so Tik. Tok is saying that Trump is going to fix. their situation which is kind of. confusing because Trump was against Tik. Tok in his first Administration that's. right this is a complete Turn Around.

from how Trump felt about Tik Tok in. 2020 we're looking at Tik Tock we may be. banning Tik Tock we may be doing some. other things or a couple of options so. if you rewind your Memories Back Then. Trump was very anti- Tik Tock and here's. the deal uh I don't mind if whether it's. Microsoft or somebody else a big company. a secure company very very American. company by it and he said that it needed. to be owned by American companies and he. tried to ban it it can't be controlled.

for security reasons by China too big. too invasive and it can't be and he. brought up the same National Security. concerns that we've heard from lawmakers. recently they were really focused on the. data he said Beijing could find a way to. get us user data from Tik Tok and that. was unacceptable so he wrote this. executive order trying to ban the. company but it actually didn't hold up. in federal courts um they said. essentially he didn't the authority to.

ban Tik Tok at the time but this idea. never went away and his efforts actually. gave rise to this law as several years. later that we're looking at now that. basically demands this sale or ban of. Tik Tok okay so Trump actually inspired. the law we're talking about today that's. right so this law was inspired by Trump. and the company was really caught flat. footed it had been hearing talk of a ban. for years and it had thought it was in. pretty good shape heading into the new. year they had fought back a sort of ban.

effort the year before President Biden. joined Tik Tok around the time of the. Super Bowl but then this law passes and. the company scrambles it's trying to. figure out how to protect its huge. operation in the US it's thousands of. employees the US is its biggest market. and they think of trump they think of. him as someone who despite his efforts. in 2020 might actually be willing to go. to bat for the company this time but why. is that though I mean Trump again we've. said was the original naysayer on Tik.

Tok right so Trump had seemed to kind of. change his tune on Tik Tok he'd spent a. lot of time in the past um bashing one. of the company's big competitors which. is meta which owns Facebook and. Instagram and clearly President Biden. was willing to sign this law and the. company was thinking you know maybe it. should try its luck with a new. Republican nominee so they decide to go. after Trump how do they woo him so the.

big player here is this conservative. billionaire donor named Jeff Yas he's a. big Republican and it turns out he owns. about 15% of bite dance Shar so he has. this big stake in the future of Tik Tok. and we know that he had talks with. Donald Trump at some point in March of. last year around that time Trump goes on. CNBC and he's got a different message. about Tik Tok I could have banned Tik. Tok I had it banned just about I could. have gotten it done.

uh but I said you know what but I'll. leave she's saying you know yes I'm I'm. aware of the security risks but it. shouldn't be banned the thing I don't. like is that without Tik Tok you can. make Facebook bigger and I consider. Facebook to be an enemy of the people. along you know maybe there's another. solution and and I don't want Facebook's. business to really benefit from the loss. of Tik Tok frankly there are a lot of. people on Tik Tok that love it there are. a lot of young kids on Tik Tok who who. will go crazy without it and it's this.

really big change from what we'd seen in. the past okay so this was the moment of. Trump's full conversion to Tik Tok yeah. and it leads to kind of the summer of. trump on Tik Tok as I thought of it the. president is now on Tik Tok my honor he. joins Tik Tok itself and becomes this. huge hit in about June of last. year love no tax ons by the way no tax. ons he's a total sensation he got 3. million follow follow in a single day.

POV 100 days left before President Trump. delivers another knockout got a good it. goes way past Biden who's the nominee at. the time we're nation in Decline nobody. is safe absolutely nobody we're going to. be a strong Nation again we're and a. bunch of his family members join Tik Tok. and it feels like there's this turn on. Tik Tok where conservatives see this as. an invitation for them to join Tik Tok. and to start making accounts and posting. there got to get out and vote we want to.

save our country we're the only one. going to save it that other group of. people they're going to destroy our. country we can't let that happen go out. and vote for Trump so fast forward to. November Trump wins Tik Tok looks pretty. smart in all of this wooing and now here. we are on the eve of Trump's. inauguration and everything's really up. in the air with the app if we're looking. at the letter of the law what are. Trump's options here so legally there's. not a lot of options. this law was designed to get B dance and.

Tik Tok to sell and they basically had. nine months to get this done or to start. talks and it seems like there's nothing. on the. horizon but there is a part of this law. a sort of magic button a piece of the. law that says that he can push all of. this out by 90 days if Congress approves. as long as there's a qualified buyer. like basically someone who's willing to. buy the company and real talks are. underway and so there's a chance that.

maybe this could push out the ban and. and keep it from ever happening but of. course that requires a. buyer we'll be right. back so subna Trump says he's going to. be Tik Tock savior he's G to kind of. negotiate a deal what do we know about. perspective. buyers so Tik tok's big problem for. selling this whole past year has been.

this big question which is what exactly. is for sale and let me explain that a. little more so basically Tik tok's. algorithm is what makes it what it is. and that's the technology that fuels the. videos that people see when they open. the app the magic of seeing something. that is suddenly so funny or just. totally suited to your interests The. Tick-Tock of the app is the algorithm. and it's really unclear if that's for. sale and that's because Tik tok's been.

saying for the better part of a year. that it can't sell largely because it's. not quite sure that China would allow it. to and that's because in 2020 China put. out this list of technology that can't. be exported without the government's. permission and it seems like the Tik Tok. algorithm is a part of that list so. given all of that has anyone actually. shown up to buy it so despite this for. sale sign on Tik Tok from last year. there hasn't been a whole lot of. activity but some names have been.

floated there's been speculation that. Elon Musk who bought Twitter might have. the money to buy it and then there's. this billionaire named Frank mccort who. used to own the Dodgers and he said he's. interested in buying Tik Tok too he's. teamed up with people like Mr Wonderful. of Shark Tank okay and he said that he. wants to buy Tik Tok without the. algorithm and what does that mean. basically he thinks he'll be able to buy. it and find a way to recreate sort of. the engine behind it but he really wants. to get access to the users and he's.

offered a pretty low price for it about. 20 billion dollar a lot of people have. found that to be maybe not the most. serious offer for what Tik Tok could. really be worth which some analysts have. said you know around a hundred billion. dollars or more wow so the algorithm is. critical to the value of the company and. we still at this point don't know. whether China is willing to let go of it. that's right it's been the huge question. mark hanging over this from the very. beginning and there has been a lot of.

signaling happening and this is where. it's gotten really interesting the CEO. of Tik Tok show Chu has said he wants to. figure something out and Trump posted. something last week the same day of the. Supreme Court ruling where he said he. just gotten off the phone with President. XI Jin ping from China saying that they. had a long discussion and Tik Tok was on. the list of things that they want to. solve together we're also seeing that TR. has developed a little bit of a.

relationship with the CEO of Tik Tok. he's invited him to the inauguration and. the Chinese vice president is also. attending the. inauguration subna what is that what is. Trump doing there I mean inviting the. CEO of Tik Tok to attend his. inauguration I mean it seems to be a. clear sign of support for Tik Tok from. the public statements that Trump has. been making in the past week he wants to. be seen as the savior of Tik Tok the. person behind bringing this app to. American and and giving them something.

that you know brings them Joy from day. one of his presidency okay so both sides. here are really signaling that they want. a deal Trump and China but each side. seems to have a different vision of what. a potential fix through that deal would. be right like for China presumably a. deal might be okay if it didn't include. the. algorithm that's right and I mean it. really raises the question of what else. could be involved in these negotiations. I mean up until now the positions have.

been pretty clear no export of the. algorithm otherwise no Tik Tok in the US. and so what kinds of elements could be. brought into this negotiation into this. discussion to get Tik Tok running in the. US again we really don't know does Trump. have any other tools in his toolbox. there's so many legal questions around. what he could actually do I mean just to. remind you this is a law passed by. Congress signed by the president and now. upheld by every Justice on the Supreme. Court so this is going to be a little.

bit of a pressure test of the US. government in the coming days and Trump. has been posting online even today about. a sale but it's really unclear what the. specifics might be and whether it would. actually comply with the law Trump has. said that he could issue an executive. order that basically delays the federal. ban while he tries to negotiate some. sort of a deal experts I've spoken with. aren't even sure if that holds up up. legally already you're seeing some.

dissent among senators in congress who. feel that you know Apple Google tech. companies should be helping to uphold. this ban so ultimately I mean this was. done by Design the lawmakers who wrote. this law wanted something bulletproof. they wanted something that couldn't be. wiggled out of and they wrote a law that. they believed really served those ends. and now we're going to see you know how. can this actually stand up if the. president has deced decided he may not. like this law so subna what's the future.

of this because on the one hand you have. Trump about to take office and you know. he's preparing to bring a bunch of. tariffs it seems like down on China's. head on the other hand you have Trump. talking about saving an app that the. whole us establishment from Congress to. the Supreme Court has determined is a. threat to our national security so how's. Trump going to thread the needle on this. I mean the future of this is still so up.

in the air just in the time that we've. been talking Tik Tok it's now offering a. popup message that's thinking Trump for. saving the app oh my goodness so that's. new from when we started recording. literally in the time that we've been. talking and we really just don't know. what's going to happen this week and. this does feel like quintessential Trump. welcome back to the Trump Administration. he is the reare politician that can kind. of hold a contradiction like this look. what he did in 2020 look what he's doing. now for so many Tik Tok users they don't.

care about the China of it all they they. want the app back the last 12 hours have. been really hard for a lot of them and. they're hoping that it doesn't go away. again but it also raises this other big. question which is you know if Tik Tok. does go away what does that mean for the. future of the US and China relationship. two countries that rely on each other so. much it's incredible to think that this. app which up until now has been known.

for dances and recipes and fun and. entertainment may also be remembered as. a real turning point in an increasingly. fraught relationship between the US and. China sapna thank you thank you I hope. the news doesn't keep going for you I. hope you have some of your. Sunday I'm not counting on it.

and as of today Tick Tock is back on. Sunday evening Trump took credit for the. ban being lifted in a speech in. Washington DC can you believe what I'll. do to win an. election and we went on Tik Tok in the. speech he bragged about his popularity. on the app and suggested that the Saga. was now settled so I like Tick Tock I. like like.

it I like it I had a slightly good. experience wouldn't you. say we'll be right. [Music]. back here's what else you should know. today a ceasefire deal between Israel. and Hamas took effect on Sunday as part.

of it three Israeli women were released. from captivity in Gaza and reunited with. family members in Israel the first. hostages to be released as part of the. first stage of the deal the hostages. were seen being handed over from the Red. Cross to Israeli troops they then had. emotional reunions with their families. at an Israeli Hospital the start of the. initial phase of the deal was delayed by. almost 3 hours to 11:15 a.m. local time.

after Israel said it had not formally. received the names of the first three. hostages to be. released the corresponding release of 90. Palestinian prisoners mostly women and. minors took place after midnight on. Monday in the West Bank in Gaza. Palestinians honked car horns and. blasted music to celebrate and began. returning to their homes all across. cross The.

Enclave today's episode was produced by. Eric krupy Diana win Michael Simon. Johnson and Mary Wilson it was edited by. Brendan clingen BG and Mark George with. help from Maria burn contains original. music by Alicia bitup Rowan Nimo and. Marian Lozano and was engineered by. Chris Wood. our theme music is by Jim runberg and.

Ben Lanser of wonderly special thanks to. Aaron. [Music]. boxerman that's it for the daily I'm. Sabrina Tavern see you tomorrow. [Music].