The Sunday Read: ‘Podcasters Took Up Her Sister’s Murder Investigation. Then They Turned on Her’

[Music]. True Crime is as oldest storytelling the. cultural Obsession it's nothing. new one thing that true crime kind of. excels at though is it adapts to new. technology and media formats really well. from the printing press to podcasts and. Facebook and with this we've seen the. development of what some people call the. true crime industrial.

complex it's a huge business and it can. also be an emotional mindfield for. victims. Families my name is Sarah bin and I'm a. contributing writer for the New York. Times magazine and I used to live in. leic Texas where this week's Sunday read. takes. place it's a piece I wrote for the. magazine about a woman named Liz flat. whose sister deborra Sue Williamson or. Debbie was murdered almost 50 years ago.

when Debbie was 18 and Liz was just. eight my story follows lizz's efforts to. solve her sister's murder and how in the. process she became a target of some of. the very people who also wanted to see. her sister's murder. solved so the trouble for Liz begins in. 2021 decades had passed since her. sister's killing from Liz's perspective. the police weren't really making any. progress on the case and Liz had already.

tried a bunch of other avenues appearing. on podcasts talking to journalists. working with a nonprofit that focused on. cold. cases she was even part of a true crime. documentary on. Netflix increasingly desperate she finds. herself at crime con which is the. biggest True Crime conference in the. United States possibly even in the world. and there she meets these two. independent investigators podcasters one. is also a journalist and the other an.

Adjunct professor at a. university they're interested in helping. Liz solve her sister's case with. crowdsourcing it's not a new idea. crowdsourcing but it's relatively new to. the world of True Crime the idea is this. if you get a group of people together. who are interested in solving a crime. you'll have more manpower and expertise. that could help you find Clues and. potentially identify. suspects Liz agrees to let the. investigators take on our sister's case.

and they set up a Facebook page. dedicated to building a community of. people who would help crowdsource the. case but soon it all goes completely. South First Liz and the investigators. argue over sensitive documents related. to her sister's murder and then Liz. herself becomes part of the gossip of. the crowdsourcing. Community it snowballs into a deeper. disagreement over a question that I. think is Central to the story are there.

times when our Collective desire to. solve the mystery or to catch the. criminal actually does more harm than. good so here's my article read by. Samantha. Dez our audio producer today is Adrien. Hurst the original music was written and. performed by Aaron. Esposito Liz flat drove to Austin mostly.

out of desperation she had tried talking. with the police she had tried working. with the former FBI profiler who ran a. nonprofit dedicated to solving unsolved. murders she had been interviewed by. journalists and at least one podcaster. she had been featured on a Netflix. documentary series about a man who. falsely confessed to hundreds of. killings although she didn't know it at. the time flat was out of Crossroads and. what she had taken to calling her.

journey a path embarked on after a. prayer born decision 5 years earlier to. try and find who killed her sister. Deborah Sue Williamson or Debbie in. 1975 it was now. 2021 flat was middle-aged and coming out. of one of the darkest moments of her. life her mother had died quite suddenly. 2 years earlier and the grief from her. death almost destroyed flat.

her father was gone too dead from a. heart attack after years of fighting for. the police to reinvestigate Debbie's. killing and her older brother Ricky who. was once a suspect in the murder took. his own life 5 years before. that she had come to Austin for a. conference crime con which formed around. the same time that flat began her Quest. at a moment now seen as an inflection. point in the long history of True Crime.

a genre as old as storytelling but one. that adapts quickly to new technologies. from the printing press to social media. the Gathering was smaller in 2021. because of the pandemic but Nancy Grace. queen of True Crimes TV era still showed. up as did Dr Phil on podcast row flat. wandered among booths for Cults crimes. and Cabernet and murder ish for True.

Crime garage and dialog less a fan of. the genre which she never liked that. much than a scout on a search she ran. into a podcaster who covered Debbie's. story a couple of years before a man who. goes by the name Vincent strange and she. commiserated with a woman whose mother's. murder also remained. unsolved then at another Booth flat met. a woman who would later put her in touch. with two investigators who presented at.

the conference that year George Jared. and Jennifer. bolz they were podcasters but Jared was. also a journalist and Boltz an Adjunct. professor of forensics and Criminal. Justice at the for-profit American. Military. University their presentation was on. another Cold Case the murder of Rebecca. Gould in. 2004 whose killer they claimed to have. helped find using a technique that has. quickly become a signature of the.

changing landscape of True Crime. crowdsourcing to crowdsource a crime. means to call on the public at large but. especially any experts among us to Aid. in the search for clues in considering. suspects in offering theories and. possibly in helping with an eventual. arrest the idea is that the more people. involved in Seeking Justice the better. and that all of us should have stakes. and murders being solved not only the.

police or bereaved family members like. flat Boltz and Jared claimed the. approach was crucial to their success. investigating Gould's murder and now. they were looking for another Cold Case. Debbies sounded like the perfect. one flat was eight when her sister was. killed Debbie had just turned 18 and she. was Flat's whole world this was August. 1975 5 and Debbie was newly married.

living with her husband Doug Williamson. in a small brick house with clabbered. siding and what was then a rural part of. Leck. Texas that night a Sunday was the. birthday of Flat's father and her. parents picked up Debbie and took her. with them to celebrate at the nearby. Pizza Inn where Doug was working the. dinner shift their family was what we. now call a blended one Flat's parents. had each been married before and while.

her father's two children Paula and. Steve mostly lived in Minnesota with. their mother flat grew up alongside the. three children from her mother's first. marriage half siblings who felt like. full ones Pam Debbie and their older. brother Ricky Debbie was the one though. who became like a surrogate mother she. was older and kind but also goofy so. unlike Flats stricter less demon ative. parents but also unlike Pam who was.

embroiled in teenage angst at the time. and Ricky who was already out of the. house and everyone said on. drugs flat Debbie and her parents ate. pizza that night and then dropped Debbie. back home around. 8:30 flat remembers that she asked to. stay over at Debbie's house something. she did a number of times that summer. and then her mom said no she remembers. Debbie getting out of the car how pretty.

she was her blonde hair still in The. Feathered Fair of faucet cut she got for. her wedding and then watching her. disappear. inside that night Doug came home from. the Pizza Inn around 1:00 a.m. to find. Debbie dead in the carport stabbed 17. times hours later Flat's father Bob. lemons woke her and Pam and told them. their sister was gone flat was baptized.

soon after Debbie's funeral her parents. worried that if something happened to. her she wouldn't go to heaven the way. everyone assumed Debbie had but Flat's. fear in the weeks and months that. followed was not about heaven or hell it. was that she was somehow responsible for. Debbie's death if only she had found a. way to stay over that night she thought. she might have somehow prevented. it the news of Debbie's killing riveted. the LEC community in a way that none of.

the other murders there were at least 19. in the city alone that year did a. reporter who worked at the Leck. Avalanche journal and wrote much of the. early coverage Pat remik told me that. her editor promised to run an article on. the front page of the paper every day. about Debbie's murder until her killer. was found a commitment he kept for. almost 3 months there were articles. about a hair sent off for testing but. never the results about the search for a.

murder weapon that couldn't be found. about the opinions of a psychic and. eventually about accusations that the. police mishandled the crime. scene there were suspects from the start. but no arrests Doug sat for at least two. polygraph tests but was never charged. his Alibi of being at work during the. murder was hard to contest Ricky was. also interviewed by the police but flat.

said he had an alibi as well and she. thinks now that he was scrutinized so. intensely at the time because of his. drug use not because he ever could have. killed his own. sister 6 months after Debbie was found. dead outside her house a reporter named. Howard Swindle wrote a long article in. the Avalanche Journal claiming that her. killing and also those of a number of. women in the Leck area in the 1970s were. the work of the lesbian leader of a.

devil worshiping cult his article based. on Anonymous sources was interspersed. with quotes from What Swindle said was. the book of. Satan the only charges in the murder. however came nearly 10 years later in. 1984 the police called Flat's father and. said they had found the man who killed. Debbie Henry Lee Lucas often described. as a onee drifter in newspapers at the.

time had confessed to killing her along. with hundreds of others mostly women in. Texas in the late 1970s and early. 1980s local law enforcement agencies and. the Texas Rangers largely accepted. Lucas's at times outrageous confessions. but within a couple of years the Texas. Attorney General's office released a. report calling a majority of them a hoax. and criticized in the police for using.

Lucas to clear cold cases Debb's murder. investigation was reopened at least on. paper but decades passed without any. movement it had as they say in the world. of True Crime gone. cold a journey implies leaving your home. traveling somewhere new and a change in. the. landscape but often also a change in the. traveler herself when flat started on.

her journey in. 2016 she was 49 and living with her. husband and her mother Joyce lemons in a. large Suburban House in Fort Worth she. had three grown children and her husband. Cliff had grown children of his own she. worked as a practice manager at a. pediatric clinic and knew very little. about the world she was about to enter. which was not only the world of law. enforcement and criminal justice but but. also the increasingly monetized Universe.

of True. Crime flat had been praying when as she. put it something was put heavy on my. heart telling her to find her sister's. killer she is not an overly religious. person at least not by her own standards. but she has a knack for paying attention. to signs from God she said but perhaps. also from her own. intuition it's a personality trait she. attributes to the early days after her.

sister's murder when amid the chaos of. mourning she felt herself slipping into. the background watching others her. mother and father in particular trying. to make sense of the sea. change flat knew the road ahead would be. difficult and she thought she knew why. after that prayer born sign she spent. months practicing ways of feeling less. emotionally attached to the subject at. hand which was the reality that Debbie.

had been killed she worried about her. mom who moved in with her the year. before after breaking a hip and about. buoying her hopes after decades without. answers she also worried about herself. specifically about looking at the. evidence including portions of the case. File which her parents obtained in the. 1980s and stored in a secret location. for. years it's relatively rare for a family. to be given the police file from an.

unsolved murder at least if that case is. still considered open which Debbie's was. flat appreciated that but it didn't make. looking through the file any easier the. first document she read was a report by. the officer who arrived at the scene. flat read the description of what he. found Debbie's body a broken window an. unlocked porch door she read the autopsy. report d detailing each Stab Wound and.

the list of collected evidence and. though she put it off she eventually. looked at the crime scene photos as. well after flat had read the entirety of. the file she picked up the phone and. began making calls she reached out to. the LC police first and she eventually. also talked to Debbie's husband Doug now. remarried and living in Missouri she. tracked down a contact for the nonprofit. the Cold Case Foundation and she gave an.

interview to the Avalanche Journal she. talked to strange whose podcast features. unsolved murders and missing person. cases in Texas and she reached out to. remik the former leic reporter as well. as to another reporter from Leck Philip. Hamilton whom her parents grew close to. during what flat now calls the Lucas. years somewhere in the midst of all. those calls two filmmakers contacted.

flat they were working on a documentary. series about Henry Lee Lucas called the. confession killer that would eventually. air on Netflix and they wanted to speak. with Joyce about the role she and Bob. played in exposing Lucas's hoax. something flat learned about only years. after the fact they were among the first. relatives of a murder victim to publicly. doubt Lucas's confessions he had said. that he raped Debbie when there were no.

signs of sexual assault and that he. stabbed her inside the house when all. evidence indicated that she was killed. in the carport when the police largely. ignored their concerns they began. investigating Lucas's confession. themselves traveling across the country. to interview lucas' family members and. racking up hours of phone bills all in. an effort to get Debbie's case reopened. flat and her mother sat for interviews.

with the filmmakers in September 2017 in. their Fort Worth home Joyce is thin and. poised in a chair near a curtained. window in the clips the documentarians. used her voice wavering but clear as she. tells the story of her daughter's murder. and almost a decade later the. investigative work she and her husband. did to prove that Lucas didn't kill her. they were mad she says that the police. thought they would accept a confession.

that was clearly wrong in Flat's. interviews both at her home and during a. subsequent trip to Leck she is pensive. and sometimes teary eyed but similarly. Resolute her voice growing angry only. when she talks about taking over her. parents quest to see Debbie's murder. solved and the resistance she said she. had been getting from the lck. police flat hoped the exposure of the. documentary would force the police's. hand she wanted her mother to have that.

hope too but in 2019 while they were. still waiting for the documentary to air. Joyce took her own life the police later. told flat that they found a copy of. Flat's first interview the one from the. Avalanche journal in. 2017 on the bed beside her mother as if. she had been looking at it before she. killed herself it was the first time. Flat's face in God wavered but just as.

was the case when Debbie died she was. mostly angry with. herself I felt like I had let God down. she said during one of several times we. talked about the weight of her mother's. sudden death on that morning that she. took her life I was being told to stay. home I didn't. listen the confession killer came out 6. months later flat had planned to give a. series of interviews after the release.

but she sat for only two before. realizing she couldn't I just didn't. have the mental strength she says I. tried but I just wasn't able to hold it. [Music]. together.

the following year was dark another year. passed and flat and her husband moved. out of the house they had shared with. her mom with the move flat finally began. to mourn it was during that period that. she drove to Austin for Crime con. and once she was back home that she.

talked for the first time to buz and. Jared she told them about Debbie's. murder and her efforts to identify her. killer and they explained their approach. to investigating cold cases including. their use of crowdsourcing. techniques flat agreed to share her. sister's case File with them though she. said she set up some stipulations for. how they should manage it and she and. bolds agreed to set up a Facebook group. dedicated ated to Debbie's case where as.

an administrator Boltz began posting. about Debbie and encouraging others to. join her and Jared in their. investigation she uploaded early. newspaper coverage of Debbie's killing. from when much of Leck was obsessed with. solving it and shared information that. hadn't been previously released a list. of evidence collected by the police a. map of houses canvased after the murder. a diagram of the crime scene. I am so glad her murder case has been.

resurrected a new member wrote in the. early weeks of that Facebook group it. went cold right away and needs. investigating on the anniversary of. Debbie's death in August flat returned. to Leck and Boltz and Jared drove in. from Colorado and Arkansas to join her. they stayed a week and on one of their. first nights in town Jared told me he. had a long conversation with flat about. what working with him in bols might.

entail I was very honest with her from. the beginning Jared said if you can just. generate a lot of media attention it. will force the hand of law enforcement. but here's the side effect of that you. are going to lose control of what said. about this. case his focus in that conversation at. least was on using crowdsourcing to. bring greater awareness to the crime. itself. but Boltz who declined an interview but.

did answer some questions via email said. that crowdsourcing also potentially fies. more resources to an investigation and. allows those who are hesitant to talk. with the police a safer option for. sharing what they might. know though police tried to dedicate. ample time to murder investigations when. they happen she wrote The Power of. several people reinvestigating all the. facts with fresh eyes and different. skills cannot be.

underestimated during bus and Jared's. trip to Leck much of which was either. cataloged on Facebook or recorded for. future podcast episodes they surveyed. the house and carport where Debbie was. murdered and placed flowers on her grave. they met with residents interested in. The Killing contacted people who knew. Debbie and Doug in the. 1970s and sat for an interview with a. local news station whose reporter noted. that the duo recently helped uncover a.

tip that led to an arrest in a cold case. in Arkansas and that they're confident. that they could do the same here Boltz. also tagged Along on Flat's annual visit. to talk with the police which left her. more hopeful than in the past flat met a. new officer Sergeant Justin Anderson who. she said seemed genuine in his desire to. reinvestigate Debbie's case. summer slipped into fall and membership.

and Debbie's Facebook group continued to. rise bolds posted every few days and. shared links to brief articles she wrote. about the investigation and to each new. episode of her podcast break the case. which was hosted at and sponsored by. American Military University her. employer she also responded to questions. or theories posted by others in the. group no matter. outlandish in a self-published book she.

and Jared later released about Debb's. murder the two investigators outlined a. number of social media tactics they use. to get others invested and actively. participating in their Facebook groups. including in a previous case planting a. heel a wrestling term for someone who. plays the villain within the. group our heels would pose provocative. questions at our back beest they write. this frequently resulted in the person.

we'd hop to connect with sending us a. private message expressing their outrage. in turn this allowed us to start a. dialogue with those people which was our. primary goal information continued to. flow another byproduct of bu's efforts. was the slow building of community as. more people began participating in the. group more of them also seemed to take. ownership of the task at hand suddenly.

it was not only flat who wanted answers. in her sister's murder there were dozens. of others pushing for a resolution as. well then hundreds and eventually more. than a. thousand in November 2021 5 months after. the Facebook group was started bolz. announced some movement in the case the. leic police had agreed to work with a. new Cold Case unit at the Texas Attorney. General's office this means more.

investigators are now on board to find. Debbie's killer and her case has been. designated their top priority bolz. posted then presumably addressing the. murderer she added you ran for 46 years. but you can no longer. hide by that point flat says she felt. that she and bu Holtz had become friends. they talked regular ly mostly about the. investigation but sometimes at least in.

her memory of those conversations about. personal things Flat's kids or bult's. marriage but then in December buls. started getting testy with her flat says. and her reading of their. relationship she wondered if the change. had something to do with bolts and. Jared's announcement that they would be. helping crime conon in one of its newest. Ventures the company's online. Subscription Service crime HQ was.

starting a series called Cold Case club. which would stream live and recorded. Zoom presentations about murder. investigations and they wanted a. multi-part series on Debbie's case led. by bolz and. Jared buz told me via email that she had. hoped participating in the Cold Case. club would bring more attention to. Debb's murder in the process of. preparing for those presentations though. she agreed to share Debbie's case File.

with a producer with the company when. flat found out in a conversation with. Boltz less than a week before her own. Zoom interview she was upset their. agreement flat told me had been that. bultz would not share the file with. anyone without her permission in part. because flat worried that releasing too. much information might hurt a potential. future arrest but B Colts characterized. their Arrangement.

differently I did verbally say I would. not publicize the file meaning I would. not put it online where anyone and. everyone could access it she wrote in an. email I did not agree to never share it. with anyone. else flat recorded the conversation she. and Boltz had about the case File in. late January. 2022 and listening to it it seems clear. that ults new flat wouldn't be happy. about her sharing the file but also that.

she believed it was the right decision. if they wanted Debbie's case to progress. as she phrases it I'm not saying there. aren't things you need to share flat. says at one point I just want to know. ahead of time so I'm okay with it you. would have said no buz responds and I. wouldn't be able to do this for. Debbie please understand we're doing. everything that needs to be done to find.

this killer she adds later in that same. conversation that is the goal correct. not controlling everything do you want. us to find him or. not oh Jen flat responds I feel like. you're manipulating this and I just need. to stop and think without saying. something I regret or that's. inappropriate or that I'm just acting. off emotions so I just need to kind of. step back for a moment and let's just.

talk. later buol says that flat needs to trust. her you said you would trust me she. repeats almost pleading I did trust you. flat. says the Fallout after that was quick. Jared wrote flat a long email explaining. how much work he and bolts had already. put into the case and why she was wrong. to be upset he asked whether she planned. to appear on the upcoming Zoom. presentation for the Cold Case club or.

if he and bu Colts should use their. backup plan flat wrote that they should. use that plan but after trying and. failing to set up a time to talk over. the disagreement with bols flat changed. her mind on the day of the scheduled. Zoom session she asked to join after all. bolz and Jared said. no Boltz told me in an email that they. were unsure how flat would act or what.

she would. say the session was titled A sister's. fight for answers and had been. advertised as being about flat search to. find Debbie's killer so when flat. learned she wouldn't be participating. she decided to join as an audience. member instead bookold later claimed. that flat was extremely disruptive in. the chat during that hourlong session a. characterization flat. disputes there is no available record of.

the zoom. chat when the presentation ended around. 8:00 p.m. Boltz logged on to Facebook. and removed flat as both an. administrator and a member of her. sister's group flat said she was shocked. when she received the removal email from. Facebook and around that time she began. encouraging others Doug and. representatives from the Cold Case. Foundation to pull out from their. scheduled Zoom interviews as well when.

they agreed crime conon ended the series. on Debbie's murder early citing. significant Discord between a member of. Debb's family and the two case. investigators around that same time. Jared released a new episode of his. podcast Diamond State murder board with. bolts as a guest the episode was titled. Family Matters and the open opening. description read sometimes the closest.

people to the case are the biggest. obstacles to the. truth flat was in her backyard with her. two dogs when she heard it she listened. as Jared criticized her actions over the. previous weeks and then as bolz agreed. that flat had seriously disrupted their. investigation in military speak said buz. who is also a former Counter. Intelligence agent in the Army this is. an attempt at. sabotage what started flat crying.

however was what she heard next and. here's the thing she's not sabotaging. you or me Jared said she's sabotaging. the case yeah bults responded her sister. her murdered sister and what goes. through my head is how would Debbie feel. about this and I don't think she'd be. very. happy a couple of months later in April. flat gave an interview to AIC news.

station in which she outlined some. seemingly positive developments in. Debbie's case namely that Sergeant. Anderson had agreed to send evidence out. for advanced DNA testing to a private. lab but also critiques of Jared and bolz. including that they had removed her from. her sister's Facebook group bus took to. the group that same day I know this is. circulating around so I'm just going to. post it she wrote before linking to.

Flat's interview if anyone on this group. is in agreement with lizz's point of. view on us please see yourself out of. the group right. now some members left or were removed. but those who remained seemed to have. found the villain they had been. searching for. flat what a miserable person she is one. of those members wrote in one of dozens. of posts or comments in that group about. out flat she wants all focus on her not.

solving the murder this case I hope. won't go cold again but we will. see if it does go cold again buz. responded there's only one person to. blame does Liz actually know who the. Killer is someone else asked I thought. the same thing another member of the. group responded who's she. protecting.

last November I flew to Dallas to meet. with flat and a woman named Tiffany. Ballard Moore the sister of Rebecca. Gould whose killer buol and Jared. claimed to have helped find Vincent. strange the Texas True Crime podcaster. came as well he and and flat have become. friends over the years she first reached.

out to him around the same time she and. I got in touch in. 2017 I lived in Leck around that time. and had become fascinated by the story. of Debbie's murder investigation both. the way it was initially mishandled by. the police and the frenzy detention it. garnered in subsequent years I had been. following flat story checking in with. her about once a year for the past 5. years. now we were meeting outside of Panera. Bread just off a highway in Denton on a.

morning blanketed by rain clouds flat. arrived in an SUV in the back of which. she had two tubs one with a case File. which I had asked to look at and the. other with fake flowers and brushes for. when she visited her mother's grave the. following day Moore walked toward us. while we were talking in jeans and. bright white tennis shoes her long long. brown hair slick straight she and flat.

hugged it was their first time meeting. in person they found each other only a. few months earlier soon after they. realized how much they had in. common Moore was in her 20s when her. sister was killed in 2004 they had been. living together in Fayetville Arkansas. where Gould was enrolled in a local. community college one weekend G drove to. nearby Melbourne and she never returned. her body was found a week later on a.

hillside off a highway in Arkansas and. although the police had suspects her. case went unsolved for more than 15. years what eventually brought wider. attention to the murder was a podcast. called hell and gone which debuted in. 2018 and proposes that G's boyfriend may. have killed her soon after that Boltz. got interested in the mystery too and. she teamed up with Jared who had covered. the murder as a cub reporter in.

Arkansas both zeroed in eventually on. Gould's boyfriend as their primary. suspect as well and chatter about him. was common in the Facebook group bold. set up in Gould's name in. 2019 but another occasional Target in. that group is Moore who refused to go on. air with the Helen gon host Katherine. townend or later with bols more also. critic ized them and Jared online for. casting suspicion on Gold's boyfriend.

who was interviewed by the police but. never charged members of bold's Facebook. group wrote that Moore didn't actually. want to see her sister's murder solved. they wrote that she had obstructed. Justice and at least one of them called. her a bag of. trash people think it's a movie Moore. said once we all had coffee and pastries. and had found a table at. inside I don't think people think. logically when they get into those.

groups they think the absolute. worst before she met flat Moore said she. rarely talked with others about the. Facebook group she worried that people. wouldn't believe her even after it. turned out she had been right to defend. her sister's boyfriend in 2020 the. police arrested a man named William. Miller for Rebecca G's murder afterward. bolz and Jared and also townend claimed. that their efforts had helped the police.

close the case either by putting. pressure on them to investigate or in. the case of buls and Jared by realizing. that Miller was a member of G's Facebook. group but the officer who identified and. arrested Miller special agent Mike. mcneel told me that just isn't true he. was assigned Gould's case after the. former detective on it announced his. retirement he said and he found Miller. through his own process of.

elimination Moore and flat found each. other two years later soon after Boltz. and Jared made that podcast about the. difficulties of working with families of. victims the podcast mentions more as. well just not by name flat said. sometimes Moore would call her up and. sound at peace Miller had pleaded guilty. to her sister's murder and Moore. attended his sentencing hearing earlier. that fall he apologized for what he did.

and is now in prison sentenced to 40. years flat felt as if Moore had. everything that she still sought closure. Justice and an end to her. search but other times Moore would call. Flat distraught and it was always about. something that happened with bulz and. Jared who also attended Miller's. sentencing hearing and who wrote and. posted and released podcasts about it.

online in the Facebook group they and. others still suspected G's boyfriend of. playing some part in the murder Miller. was his cousin even though mcneel has. made it clear that the boyfriend had. nothing to do with it they have. continued to criticize more as well for. her appearance on a DAT line episode. about Gould more recently and during. Miller's sentencing for not putting. flowers on her sister's grave as buz and.

Jared did that day the reason she didn't. Moore told us that morning was because. she had taken her younger sister. Danielle to the hearing and Danielle was. on her fourth round of chemotherapy at. the time and needed to go home and rest. Danielle died this. year it's so frustrating Moore said and. honestly that type of stuff is what gets. me going and makes me where I'm like. like they're not going to stop flat said.

as Moore searched for. Words the two women said they feel as if. the story is being spun about them and. the crowds that have build up around. their sisters won't disappear anytime. soon Debbie's husband Doug would later. tell me that he has tried to avoid. talking with his adult daughter about. Debbie's murder because he supports flat. whom he can still remember member is an. 8-year-old and his daughter is a member. of Debb's Facebook group and has been.

impressed by much of bolds and Jared's. investigation Moore's father from whom. she is estranged supports bul and Jared. as well and details of their strained. family Dynamics Moore's parents divorced. when she was young have also been at. times part of the chatter on Gould's. Facebook group I shouldn't care about. what people think about me but I do. Moore told me in a quiet voice at one. point I think that's why the things that.

they say. hurt on Facebook meanwhile bolts and. Jared have argued that Moore started the. fight by criticizing their investigation. publicly and that flat has been going. after them not the other way around bulz. has also made the case that no family. member can or should control a murder. investigation and that the general. public too has stakes in a murders being.

solved flat and more talked at the. Panera Bread for more than 3 hours that. morning as it rained off and on they. traded ideas for how to address their. shared problem including defamation. lawsuits and signing contracts with. podcasters or private investigators. about what information can or cannot be. released but they also talked about. their sisters who they were were and. what they were like when they were still. a part of this world flat brought out.

photos of Debbie along with letters her. parents had written during their search. to see her murder solved Moore told us. about her and Gould's silly fights over. clothes and mids sentence she began to. cry you've already gone through trauma. and then they put you through more. trauma Moore reassured flat at one point. after flat confessed that sometimes she. feels like giving up and you shouldn't. have to go through that nobody should.

have to go through anything like. that I just pray and it's like God what. am I supposed to do flat said what am I. supposed to do Debbie talk to me and. direct me what am I supposed to. do what she eventually did was push the. police to test any final evidence in. Debbie's case and and 6 months after we. all met up in Denton flat returned to.

where this story began Leck Texas to. witness the exclamation of her sister's. remains I flew out to join her and at. sunrise on a Wednesday in May I was at. the cemetery where Debbie was buried. nearly 50 years earlier flat and her son. Matt Bentley picked me up at the funeral. home in his white pickup truck and we. drove together to the grave site the. plan she told me earlier was to unearth. Debbie's coffin in search of viable DNA.

samples her own and also potentially. those of whoever killed. her Debbie's grave was staked off. already when we parked amid a line of. mostly unmarked police cars at the. grass's edge we stood along the cemetery. lawn watching a back ho pull Earth from. the ground then we waited into the. graveyard toward Debbie's headstone flat. told told me she slept restlessly the. night before as much out of concern for.

what would happen today was it right to. dig up her sister's body she kept asking. herself would that bring her the answers. she sought as out of fear about what. those from the Facebook group would do. or say once they learned that Debbie had. been. exhumed the back ho shuddered to a stop. and two workers from the funeral home. jumped into the grave with shovels to. dig out the rest of the Earth by hand. flat held on to her son's arm and. watched them while her other hand.

trembled almost. imperceptibly a couple of weeks earlier. Flat's older sister Paula chass from her. father's side of the family told me that. the main hope she had now was not that. Debbie's case would one day be solved a. goal that feels less and less. realistic but that flat would be able to. let it go Liz has been torn apart heart. she said I feel bad for her but I wish. she could just walk.

away Bentley told me that he urged his. mom the night before to accept that she. had done what she could for her sister. he was convinced that she heard him and. that this would be her last attempt to. see Debbie's case solved it was also. from what I gathered talking to a. forensic anthropologist present at the. exclamation one containing only the. slimmest chance that any useful evidence. would be found and Weeks Later flat.

would also learn that the answers from. the DNA analysis if they come could take. much longer than she expected possibly. years though the police say hopefully. months that morning in Lok though flat. felt that at least something was being. done she stood in the sun beside Bentley. and the dozen or so police officers. including Sergeant Anderson and a couple. of victim's Advocates and we watched as.

the funeral home workers laid their. shovels aside and began to rest Debbie's. Vault from the ground we watched as they. hauled that Vault onto a tractor bed and. drove it to a drafty warehouse nearby. where it was Pride open to reveal. Debbie's coffin pale green with. emblazened silver flowers and then as. that coffin its latch rusted shut had to. be Pride opened as well we watched as a. forensic specialist placed samples from.

Debbie's body her hair her fingernails. part of a bone into individually labeled. envelopes on a wooden table beside the. coffin spilling rainwater onto a. concrete. floor then all of us except for one. officer and flat son stepped out of the. warehouse to give flat Time to Say. Goodbye once more to her sister Debbie. it was a decision flat would later tell. me she regretted she said goodbye to.

Debbie at that Cemetery when she was at. the body at rest in her coffin was no. longer her sister she knew that and. facing her remains only showed her how. much time had. passed how long that dirt had been. settled how impossible return really. is no matter if this particular mystery. is one day s D or. [Music].

not.