The Spoiler Threat of R.F.K. Jr.

this is Mary Wilson producer for the. daily in downtown Philadelphia waiting. for a campaign event with presidential. candidate RFK Jr it's about 3 hours. before he's expected to speak and there. are. already maybe a few dozen supporters. here and I'm going to start talking to. them are you a supporter of RFK Jr yeah. I'm I'm actually I'm a I'm a support a.

big time I have followed him for several. years even before he decided to be a. presidential campaign I have always. appreciated his honesty I've listened to. everything he's every interview I can. get my hands on and I think RFK he just. wants the people to know the truth and. um from the research that I've done the. little rabbit holes that I've gone down. um it aligns with a lot of the stuff. that Kennedy says to be the truth I'm. going to RFK from The New York Times I'm. I'm Michael baboro this is the.

[Music]. daily. today Robert F Kennedy Jr was once. dismissed as a fringe figure in the 2024. presidential race but this week as he. announced an independent Run for the. White House he's striking fear within. both the Democratic and Republican. parties my colleague political. correspondent Rebecca O'Brien explains.

why it's Thursday October. [Music]. 12th Rebecca a few days ago Robert F. Kennedy Jr announced that he was running. for president as an independent which. all but ensures that he can be a. candidate in the general election next. fall he doesn't have to go through a. difficult primary process he can't.

really be knocked out of the race. because he's not a Democrat or. Republican and the question immediately. became when he announced how much does. this really matter because third party. and independent candidates have a very. spotty record in the US so the. Democratic and Republican parties think. that this move really does matter. because it has the potential to draw. votes from both sides there's always a. risk that independent candidates will. draw support from the two parties and in. this case we're facing an election where.

in all likelihood we're going to have a. rematch of Donald Trump and Joe Biden. right and they're both you know they. have bases of support but they're both. unpopular in large segments of the. population right people are kind of. tired of them people are tired of them. and Kennedy in particular speaks to I. think a pretty sizable population of. people who are sick of the two-party. system and tired of the narratives on. both sides and so their fear is that in. a 3 race he would end up drawing support.

from both candidates and from what I've. seen in person at various Kennedy events. he draws people from across the. political spectrum and it's a pretty. powerful Coalition and just in a sort of. numerical sense it doesn't take that. much as we've seen in recent elections. to swing the results right and that. wouldn't be the first time that this has. happened there's despite third party and. independent candidates inability to ever. win these races in the US there's a long.

and Rich history of them acting and. you're kind of getting at this as. spoilers as people who draw just enough. support away from one or both major. party candidates to become decisive I. mean it was widely believe Ralph nater. did that in 2000 winning just enough. votes in key states to cost Al Gore the. election some believe Ross per did that. in 1992 and helped defeat George HW Bush. in his re-election so from what you're.

describing that's the fear that. Democrats and Republicans have not that. RFK Jr becomes president but that he. costs one of them the presidency that's. exactly right okay I want you to explain. how we get to a point where RFK presents. this kind of a threat and can draw this. unique Coalition that you alluded to. just a few moments ago so what is that. story so Robert F Kennedy Jr is a Scion.

of pretty much American royalty right. his uncle former President johnf Kennedy. was assassinated when he was 9 years old. 5 years later his father was. assassinated during his own Run for the. presidency right and so he's 14 years. old he's the PA Bearer at his own. father's funeral and in the years that. followed he had a troubled youth. troubled and privileged and he was. addicted to heroin at one point but then. by the mid 80s he started of establishes.

himself as an Environmental Lawyer and. he's a litigator and he's persistent. it's against the law you're not allowed. to pollute the air or the water in this. country what people who have known him. admire about him is that he is. determined and tireless I sued them it. took uh 11 years for us to finally win. that lawsuit at some point during the. phase he is diagnosed with spasmodic. dysphonia which affects the sound of his. voice it sounds sort of rugged and rough.

and it doesn't stop him obviously it. sort of becomes part of his public. Persona kind of his vocal trademark. right and to some observers it sounds. almost like he's been out for days on. end fighting the tough fight and has run. his body and his voice horse when we. destroy nature we diminish ourselves and. we're imposing a CA upon ourselves that. I don't think is prudent and on our. children that I don't think we have the. right to impose thank you very. much and at the height of his. environmental law career he's really a.

source of Pride for his family members. because he is fulfilling the promise of. the Kennedy family and what his father. was unable to do in his life that was. cut. short and then by the turn of the. Millennium he's had so much success in. identifying and holding to account these. corporations that have caused chemical. spills and long-term injury to the. environment and to people that he starts.

to attract the attention of what at the. time was a growing community of vaccine. Skeptics and these are largely parents. of children who have suffered some sort. of they call it injury um it's often. vaccine injury and people who believe. that autism is caused by vaccinations or. that other developmental disorders and. delays are linked to chemicals and. vaccines chemicals in water even more. broadly than that that the public health.

infrastructure of this country might be. complicit in damaging their children so. these parents see Robert Kennedy Jr and. his environmental work as making him. they think a natural Ally in this fight. which we should say especially in the. case of autism is a belief that's been. widely debunked but yet very firmly held. by many people right and Kennedy then. takes up this mantle of the injured. wronged parent and begins to take on.

these cases and do his own research and. then in 2005 he publishes these articles. in salon and rolling stone in which he. purports to lay out scientific evidence. of vaccine damage to children so this is. kind of his National General audience. debut as a major force in this parental. world of vaccine skepticism correct now.

those articles have since been retracted. or qualified um as the studies that g. them have kind of become widely debunked. but that didn't stop him he has. continued to raise questions and in the. Years following his Embrace of this. cause there were all sorts of instances. of measles outbreaks a rise in vaccine. skepticism and he played a really. important pivotal role in bringing that. Community maybe not to the mainstream.

but giving it more prominence and. acceptability right here's a Kennedy a. Scion of American political royalty. saying it's okay maybe even it's your. duty not to get a vaccine right you know. if a Kennedy is saying we can't trust. our government and our Public Health. establishment I mean we have to listen. to him and he gives it credibility he. gives the movement legs but as big as. this movement became I don't think. anyone was quite prepared for how well. the coid pandemic would tap into that.

underlying skepticism and general fear. right so what does Robert F Kennedy Jr. have to say when coid rolls around and. the government begins developing and. releasing Co vaccines so I think we have. to step back and see it as the bigger. picture his issue with the co response. was not just about the vaccine in the. course of his sort of progression at. from environmental Steward to.

antivaccine Crusader he developed a deep. distrust of the government and that has. manifested itself not just in public. health issues that he's raised but also. his open questioning of pieces of. American History including his own. family he has raised questions about. whether the CIA played a role in the. death of his uncle John Kennedy. somewhere along the way this skepticism. about the public health EST lishment. turned into a skepticism about the.

American government itself and from what. I'm gathering perhaps a. conspirator minded approach to All. Things government that is exactly right. he sees in the workings of America a. large conspiracy and Corruption so his. role in the co pandemic is multifaceted. oh they tell you we just want you to. lock down for two. weeks but then 20 months later they. still have lock down he pretty much.

immediately seizes on the growing public. skepticism of lockdown orders of. government intrusion into the free. market as he sees it the minute they. hand you that vaccine passport every. right that you have is transformed into. a privilege contingent upon your. obedience to arbitrary government. dictates it will make you a slave he.

deeply distrusted the efforts of local. and federal government to restrain the. free movement of people and if you're. going to give 22,000 vaccines to prevent. one death you better make sure the. vaccine doesn't kill anybody and finally. he openly questioned whether the coid. vaccines were safe we are watching. something now that I never believe that. I would see in my lifetime that one day.

the United States would be overtaken by. fascism orchestrated by Tony fouchy and. this led pretty quickly to him and a. group that he ran being kicked off. social media. platforms YouTube videos in which he. espoused these theories were also. removed from the. platform and of course this only. confirmed in his mind and in the mind of. his supporters that there was a vast. conspiracy Sil.

him right because what could seem more. like everyone trying to censor you than. being kicked off social media platforms. I'm guessing the reason they did that in. fact I recall it is because those. platforms believed he was spreading. dangerous misinformation that endangered. Public Health correct Soca around this. time I'm really curious what are people. close to Kennedy making of his. transformation from this lionized. Public Health hero to someone who seems.

to becoming more and more of a. fringy conspiracy theorist well let's. talk about his family I think that over. the course of his growing involvement. with the antivaccine movement he had. already alienated them members of the. Kennedy members of the Kennedy family uh. and he was sort of seen as this sort of. fringy wacko but his move to center. stage during the the co pandemic I think.

starts drawing alarms from people in his. family and people close to him because. now what had been you know uncle Bobby's. dinner table conspiracy theories are. getting more attention and he's drawing. a growing crowd of supporters people who. may not agree with his vaccine views or. may not agree with his work on autism. and Mercury or had no idea that he'd. even been involved in that are drawn to. his message that the coid lockdowns are.

totalitarian and are drawn to his anti-. government screeds and his sort of open. questioning of what are we doing here. and some of his own siblings started. publicly pushing back against that and. saying we pretty much categorically. reject what he has to say about Co. they're disavowing him publicly they're. dis publicly but he doesn't really.

care he decides to take this growing. base of public support his growing. platform and enter the presidential race. and in keeping with his family's history. his own voting record he declares in. April of this year that he is going to. run as a. [Music]. Democrat.

[Music]. we'll be right. back Rebecca Beyond family Legacy beyond. the fact that RFK Jr is a member of. democratic political royalty what's his. logic in entering the presidential race. as a Democrat given the reality that. there is an incumbent Democratic. president and taking out incumbents in a.

primary is just really hard so he would. say that he was running as a Kennedy. Democrat which means what well it's a. nostalgic play really because what he's. saying is that the Democratic party used. to be the party that was critical of war. that pushed back against corporate. interests that represented the common. person and that the Democratic party has. forsaken that and one thing that has. emerged from his work in the antivaccine.

universe is a belief that certain very. powerful corporations are secretly. determining the course of American. governance and that they are trying to. co-opt and hold captive entire branches. of government for their own greedy. purposes what are some examples of that. according to him so he mentions in. particular Black Rock the big Investment. Company yes and it's capture as he sees. it of American housing and real estate.

he sees you know looh heed Martin the. defense contractor as being inextricably. bound up in American foreign policy and. that Democrats are no longer willing to. push back against that uh he sees. pharmaceutical companies like fizer and. Mna as being inextricably bound up in. the response to the Corona virus. pandemic and standing to profit. immensely from government policies so he. sees essentially Joe Biden the. Democratic party the US government as. being basically held hostage by special.

interests and by big corporations which. is a pretty populist strain of. democratic politics which seems also to. be tinged a little bit with something of. a conspiratorial mindedness right and. the conspiratorial mindset is not helped. by the fact that this year the. Democratic National Committee decided to. essentially. rig or rejigger the depending on who you.

are depending on who you are and who you. ask the primary process so that Joe. Biden would have the easiest possible. path to re-election right we've talked. about this on the show this was the. Democratic party's decision to change. the primary schedule it was supposed to. start in Iowa instead the party changed. it to start in a state that Joe Biden. did very well in in 2020 South Carolina. the party in Biden said that's because. it's a more diverse State than Iowa. which is typic been first but to some. and I'm sure Kennedy it looks a lot like.

a plan to renominate Joe Biden right so. it looks to Kennedy that the DNC is. rigging it against him and it's. particularly frustrating for him because. when he enters the race he starts. polling very well how well there were. some polls of Democrats where he was up. at 20% that's a big it's a big number. it's not insignificant so you can. imagine that to somebody who's already. in a kind of conspiratorial mindset. he sees this as the Democratic party.

stifling a meaningful challenge to their. preferred candidate right and that is. compounded by the fact that he. continuously was calling for a debate he. wanted to debate Joe Biden and debate is. a big deal for him he wanted an. opportunity to have his perspective. heard and to demand an answer and. response from the incumbent and what was. the response there was no response they. will not schedule a debate because the. DNC is backing the incoming President. Joe bid H which must be very frustrating. because if you're at 20% in a poll.

that's higher than many of the. Republicans who definitely get to debate. each other right so that's why he. decides that there is no path forward. for him in the Democratic party and. that's how we get to his decision just a. few days ago that he is going to run as. an independent so tell us about that. announcement here we are Liberty Bell. nearby it's a beautiful day so it was in. Philadelphia and I went with a producer. from the daily Mary Wilson it was stage. in front of the national Constitution.

Museum maybe upward of a thousand people. were there that's practice now. everybody's invited to dance it's sort. of like a hippie Trump rally and are you. ready for. today are you ready for the next. president of the United States Bobby. Kennedy are we ready to. win I'm here to declare myself an. independent.

candidate and what is his message as he. announces that he is an independent. candidate for president it's very. painful for me to let go of the party of. my uncles my father my grandfather and. both of my great-grandfathers honey Fitz. fit he basically said that it was a very. difficult decision for him to leave the. party of his childhood and of his family. but he felt that he had no choice. Americans are weary they're tired of the.

culture war and people suspect that the. divisions are deliberately orchestrated. what I heard in Philadelphia was Kennedy. taking his message of Independence and. of anti-corruption. and even of a little bit of conspiracy. and making a bigger tent of it and. saying I want to speak for the people. we're a populist movement that defies. Left Right divisions I'm proud to say. that my supporters in include both Pro. lifers and.

pro-choicers they include climate. activists and climate Skeptics they. include vaccinated and. unvaccinated this was his effort more. than I'd ever heard him say before to. Define himself as part of a movement as. the Vanguard of a movement and inviting. people to join him and based on what you. saw in this audience how did that. message resonate with the people. there so Mary and I wait out into the.

crowd and we speak with all sorts of. people when did you um start taking a. look at RFK junr well I was looking. around for anybody but Biden we speak. with Democrats who want an alternative. to Biden historically I've pretty much. voted a Democrat but I feel that the. Democratic party has taken Black America. for granted who feel maybe betrayed by. the Democratic party I'm I've always. been a Democrat. um so I I like the ability to actually.

vote for somebody who does have. Democratic Values but is more moderate I. guess than like these are lifelong. Democrats in some cases who voted for. Obama and Biden you care to be. interviewed at all I I am absolutely a. conservative and I've never voted for a. Democrat myself we spoke with. Republicans who voted for Donald Trump. in the past two elections and I was so. fed up after the laste. you know you look at the polls and stuff.

and some of the outcomes just don't make. sense or whatever so I I was frustrated. with the system there's also a strain of. people who are very drawn to his name I. don't know I like the Kennedy family you. know they did a lot of great things for. this country so I support the kennedies. really people across the political. spectrum and people of both parties that. we spoke to had a tendency to repeat. back some of the theories I me the. assassination of his uncle when he's.

talking about like it might have been. like an inside type job that he has. publicly espoused including name cheing. corporations and also with like Black. Rock they're one of the top three. shareholder in 88% of the companies in. America Black Rock got mentioned To Us. by several people interesting when. they're that big of a shareholder. they're sitting down with the executives. of these companies and saying this is. what you're going to do or we're going. to sell our shares and that. conspiratorial mindset really does. inform a lot of his supporters and then.

we spoke to people from both parties who. really just hate the idea of a repeat of. the last election and in fact see that. likely matchup as a sign that the system. needs some fresh blood and to be shaken. up a little bit do you think if he were. not running would you cast a vote in the. upcoming presidential election no there. isn't a candidate in my mind although. you know it's tempting to vote for Trump. to get rid of Biden but that wouldn't. work it would just be trading one.

monster for another monster so I'm done. with the monster thing you. know so what you're describing makes me. think of him and I want you to tell me. if this is right as kind of a catchall. for Americans who are alienated from our. politics and a lot of Americans are. those who have gone down the rabbit hole. of this internet era and are drawn to. theories about the government and. corporations and who's really pulling.

the strings and those who just love the. idea of a Kennedy back in the mix and. taken together I have to imagine that. could be a fair number of people right. and that cross-section that you just. described includes people who voted for. Donald Trump in 2016 and 2020 or who sat. out 2020 after being disillusioned after. the 2016 election and that really gets. us to the question of who has more to. fear here the rats or the Republicans. right because his appeal as you have.

laid be is really. bipartisan yeah it's a bipartisan almost. anti-partisan appeal um nonpartisan. anti-partisan nonpartisan and it was. really telling to me and to my. colleagues and the politics team that. about an hour before he started his. speech declaring independence the. Republican National Committee put out a. email saying 23 reasons not to vote for. RFK Jr and that sort of just tells you.

something right that they are already. seeing him as Potential Threat to Donald. Trump or to the potential. nominee and they're describing him as. pretty much a rank andile Democrat in. all but name but the fact that they put. it out there's a little bit of truth. because he but it means they're afraid. of him as a challenger to a republican. right and Democrats of course fear him. too because the feeling is that the. incumbent has more to lose here when. there's the presence of a third party or. independent candidate so there's genuine.

uncertainty and a lot of interest in. which side Kennedy will be helping or. hurting right so look as an independent. candidate he faces a tremendous uphill. battle getting on the ballot in all 50. states right has to get the signatures. it's a whole rig roll right and each. state has its own rules and it's a huge. Endeavor but he doesn't even have to get. on the ballot in all 50 states to be a. spoiler because really what it comes. down to or what it's likely to come down. to. is tens of thousands of votes in a few.

critical swing States right Wisconsin. Georgia Arizona Michigan Pennsylvania. and if in those States he's able to pull. votes away or even cause people not to. vote at all that makes him a spoiler and. that could have significant. ramifications for the election and that. is truly what both parties are worried. about I think at this point they're not. quite worried that he's going to win the. presidency it's a fear that he will do. just enough at the margins and just.

enough at the right margins to swing the. results one way or. another Rebecca thank you very much. thank you very. [Music]. much the Democrats are frightened that. I'm going to spoil the election for. President. Biden. and and the Republicans are frightened.

that I'm going to spoil it for president. Trump the truth is they're both. right my intention is to spoil it for. both of. [Music]. them we'll be right. back.

here's what else you need to know today. on Wednesday Israel formed an emergency. government that will sideline political. hardliners and incorporate two new. ministers both former Army Chiefs as the. country prepares for what could be a. drawn out war with Hamas in response to. its Massacre of 1200 Israelis over the. weekend in a speech announcing the new. new government prime minister Benjamin.

Netanyahu warned that quote every member. of Hamas is a dead man in Gaza where. Israel is launching air strikes aimed at. Hamas more than 1,00 Palestinians have. been killed local officials said that. Israel is targeting buildings that are. normally off limits including schools. hospitals and. mosques and House Republicans have. nominated their Majority Leader.

Representative Steve scales of Louisiana. as their next speaker but it's unclear. whether he has sufficient support to. actually win the job during a vote on. the house floor scales can only afford. to lose the votes of four fellow. Republicans but so far seven of them. have said they will not support. him today's episode was produced by Mary. Wilson Stella tan and Rob zipco with.

help from Michelle Banja it was edited. by Rachel quer and Devin Taylor fact. checked by Susan Lee contains original. music by Dan Powell and Maran Lozano and. was engineered by Alysa Moxley our theme. music is by Jim brunberg and Ben lanfer. of. [Music]. wonderly that's it for the daily I'm. Michael baboro see you.

[Music]. tomorrow.