The Secret Succession Fight That Will Determine the Future of Fox News

from The New York Times I'm Sabrina. tavernes and this is the. [Music]. daily for years rert Murdoch seemed. content to let his children battle it. out for control of his conservative. media Empire once he's gone but as my. colleague Jim Rutenberg found out. Murdoch's feelings have now. changed today.

how Murdoch's secret Choice touched off. an ugly family squabble that could. influence how much of the world sees the. [Music]. [Applause]. news it's Friday August. [Music]. 2nd so you have become Jim one of the. world's leading experts on the Murdoch.

family certainly the expert for the New. York Times on the Murdoch family this is. of course the family that owns Fox News. you've recently uncovered quite an. unexpected turn in the tale of this. family tell us what you found well I. have to say that yes I've been covering. this family for a long time I thought. I'd seen it all and apparently I hadn't. [Music].

the murdocks have tried to keep a lot of. this out of public view but my reporting. partner Jonathan M and I got access to a. single sealed Court. [Music]. Document what we learned is that for. many months in an obscure probate. courthouse in Nevada the Murdoch family. has been battling it out for control not. only of their family fortune but for. rert Murdock's huge Global media Empire.

this conservative media Juggernaut. that's best known for its Crown Jewel. Fox. [Music]. News it's classic so on the one side you. have the patriarch rert and his favorite. son. lachlin on the other side is Rupert's. remaining three adult children James. Elizabeth and prud.

[Music]. and whichever faction ends up winning is. going to have control over what we all. know to be this huge media Empire that. has incredible influence on our. [Music]. politics Jim this sounds familiar sounds. like one of my favorite shows the HBO. series succession well it does and maybe. that's because the family at the heart. of that show is clearly based in part at. least on the murder but while succession.

may be a compelling cable drama we all. love it this family fight is very much. real and unlike the show this has real. world. [Music]. consequences okay so before we get into. this current fight I think it's worth. going back to the last time you were on. the show to talk about the murdocks it. was a few years ago remind us where we. left off at that point well. interestingly we left off right where.

this action picks up quite literally. Rupert's two sons Lachlan and James for. their entire lives almost they had been. fighting it out to succeed their. father and for a long time James Murdoch. was the ascendant son James is younger. than laan he's the younger brother a. technocrat and increasingly as he Grew. Older a political moderate M at the same. time Murdoch's f favorite son laan his.

eldest was really Rupert's heart's. desire Rupert had wanted llan to run the. business when he died but llan and rert. had had a fight earlier so llan had gone. off to Australia to do his own thing. James was ascendant then comes the. hacking. Scandal this morning James Murdoch told. a public hearing he did not know his. reporters were hacking cell phones I was. given the same assurances as the as they. gave outside I I've been very consistent.

about it in the summer of 2011 several. of rer Murdoch's newspapers are found to. have been hacking celebrities and the. Royals and sports stars even a. 13-year-old girl who had gone missing. News of the World Executives and legal. advisers warned in detail of what was. happening yet Mr Murdoch said he had. never been made aware and he didn't ask. it's a cataclysmic existential crisis. for the company the biggest crisis in. the Murdoch Empire's history the media. Mogul Rupert Murdoch has arrived in.

London to help sort out the mess to some. observers it's his son James Murdoch. who's left with egg on his. face and James is the one in charge and. takes the fall and Lin returns to the. fold to help his brother cope with the. Scandal around hacking and rert tasks. the two sons now to lead the business. together and you have some tension here. the tension in part is Fox News in the. Trump era the America that we know and.

love doesn't exist. anymore massive demographic changes have. been foisted upon the American people As. Trump Rises fox really starts moving. more and more to the right this is a. Flatout Invasion it had always been. conservative of course from its very. first days but as Trump Rises and As. Trump becomes the nominee for the. Republican party and certainly after he. wins and moves into the administration. the network begins to Parrot some of his. more outrageous claims it's really.

beyond what we had seen from Fox in all. of its history the point of mandatory. vaccination is to identify the sincere. Christians in the ranks the free. thinkers the men with high testosterone. levels and anyone else who does not love. Joe Biden and make them leave. immediately it's a takeover of the US. military and in futility James who's. watching all this in despair tries to. rain it in he wants to kind of ground. the network more make it a less less. wild but at the end of the day the.

ratings are off the charts it's like. record after record rert and llan are. thrilled and after basically losing this. fight James is the one out in the cold. he's pretty much Iced Out James leaves. and Lan emerges as Rupert's true. successor but there's a. [Music]. catch Lan's control is temporary okay. because really what's going on here is.

that rert Murdoch has set up a Family. Trust in which all the family ownership. of This Global Empire arrests it's all. in this trust so is it basically like a. will it's better than a will and sorry. Nei you nor I will have one of these. it's it's about not only Robert's. billion dollar Fortune which under the. terms of the trust will be split between. all of his children. equally but so too will control of the. global Empire after rert Murdoch dies.

huge power huge power but shared shared. power so laan's the successor as long as. Rupert's alive but once rert dies laan's. place in the succession is now up for. grabs all four children will have an. equal claim to succession and equal. shares in voting power as to who it will. be who will lead them as Rupert Murdoch. told Charlie Rose way back in 2006 while. you have said you could see. you would like to have a member of the.

family succeed you right yeah you I. think that's a natural either Sons or. daughters you'd like to have it will be. up to them to decide who will lead them. if I go under a bus tomorrow yeah it'll. be that the four of them will have to. decide uh which of the one should lead. them your have four. children they'll all be treated equally. finally absolutely MH and here's the. thing that trust is irrevocable that is. legally set in stone cannot be changed.

okay so the plot thickens and this is a. potentially really messy can of worms. opening up in the event that rubert. Murdoch dies nothing ever stays settled. in this family just like succession and. the three children James Elizabeth and. Prudence started to form their own Block. in fact the three were basically upset. at the turn of events where lachan is. the successor and so they actually went. to their father and brother and said.

Okay llin can buy the three of us out. take the trust take the companies we'll. have more billions of dollars to play. with sayara got it so just take the. money and run we're done with this yeah. which makes a lot of sense makes sense. to me I'll take a few billion dollars. thank you very much me too but it. doesn't happen and it doesn't happen. we're told at the time because he just. couldn't come up with that kind of money. I mean this would be like several. billion dollars but in the end the trust. stays the same and all the siblings will. still have an equal say in it after. Rupert's passing M but there's a vestage.

of this that becomes very. important because now you have the three. siblings James prudence and Elizabeth. they're still in that trust acting as a. separate block and over the intervening. years there's increasingly talk that. this block could do something. here that when rert dies this block. could move to shove Lin aside and take.

over the. company so instead of running away from. the company selling and getting out. they're actually going in the opposite. direction running toward the company the. power it you know potentially presents. and kind of resting control away from. laan the favored by rert older brother. theoretically the thinking here would be. if we're in it then we're in it but we. don't want to own it in this form and. again this this is talk around them this.

is there's a lot of speculation but. there's a lot of coverage of this in the. press and rert is a consumer of this. coverage that they would do this take. the company from their brother and. change it after Rupert's. death so Jim what would that look like I. mean if they took over the company. obviously we don't have a crystal ball. here but like theoretically how are they. different and what would fox look like. if they did take it over we have some. history here to go on and it's all we. have to go on and The View we understand.

the best is that of James okay and as we. understood it James and his sisters. apparently are in the same camp it was. never talking about making Fox into. MSNBC certainly not even CNN I mean he. understood and I think they all. understand that this is a right leaning. conservative Empire but the language. around James and when his view was. explained to us it would come through as. words like responsibility and ethics and. journalism being grounded in journalism. and so you're looking at what would be a.

fox that maybe wouldn't talk about an. immigrant invasion you wouldn't hear. doubts about climate change and the. human causes you'd have way less. conspiratorial thinking in the opinion. sections of fox which over the years. especially in the Trump era really went. into places where Fox had never even. gone so you'd see a more moderate a more. cautious Fox still a conservative Fox. but more The Wall Street Journal. editorial page and less impo Wars m by. the way I just want to note the children.

themselves are not saying this openly. but everyone in Murdoch's World talks. about this all the time what if this. happens it's just everywhere you have to. be like under a rock to miss the story. and Rupert's certainly not under a rock. when it comes to his own family that's. been my. question as all of the swirl the talk in. that Murdoch world that these three. would take over the company and vote out. their brother I always wondered if. someone who's been covering this man for. decades is he just going to sit there.

and when that proverbial bus rolls him. over as he put it to Charlie Rose is he. just going to be okay that these four. children are going to fight it out. amongst themselves and maybe his Chosen. One loses I just wondered is he really. going to let that. happen and 2 weeks ago I got my answer. and the answer was a decided no he was. going to fight back. [Music].

we'll be right. [Music]. back okay so rert Murdoch decides to. make a move what does he do well I can't.

get inside his head but it's pretty. clear that this talk of his three. children ganging up on his one the. chosen one and moving him aside and. perhaps reorienting the company away. from bird's Vision I mean this is not. good but remember this trust is. irrevocable so what can he do well when. you're a billionaire what you can do is. hire really good. lawyers and his lawyers start from what. we can tell going through this thing and. they find a.

loophole okay so what's the loophole. well so again the trust is presumably. irrevocable but it does contain this. narrow provision that would allow rert. to make changes to its structure as long. as they're done in good faith and with a. singular Soul Purpose and that is to. benefit its. members so how does he want to change. the trust like what are we talking about. here well if you remember you have these.

four equal shares well what rert decides. he wants to do is basically. disenfranchise the three James prudence. and Elizabeth so that Lachlan has soulle. control but that seems to fly in the. face of how the trust is structured. right like the changes have to benefit. all four equally here this seems to be. clearly favoring just one of the kids. llan it's interesting that you would say.

that because in Robert's view we. understand that this internally was. being described as project Harmony okay. and it was Project Harmony because okay. you could argue that it's Lan being. raised above all others but the argument. apparently in rer world and LAN world is. no no no no this is for everybody's good. it's Harmony Lan's the guy no fighting. amongst yourselves we're going to clean. that thing up everyone could be happy. and line up behind Lachlan well when rer. goes to formalize this he actually does. go in person to London to visit with as.

we understand it Elizabeth and PR to. inform them of project Harmony and it is. not. harmonious as we reported Elizabeth. responded to this possibility with a. string of expletives so where there are. expletives if you have money there are. lawyers right and so now where there. were rumors of a three child block. against laand now there really is one. the three are now formally pushed. together into a block they hire a lawyer. between them and they push this thing.

into a court battle in Nevada where it. will now fall to a judge to decide the. key issue can rert do this okay so. what's rert Murdoch's argument here I. mean I'm curious how he's actually. presenting this to the court it seems. like it would be on his face an uphill. battle well there are a couple arguments. he's making one is that allegiances are. constantly changing who's friends with. who and the family is always shifting so. you can't have that that this is bad for. business we need harmony we need one.

person and one person only and that. person is llan and in the court record. that we've obtained this is made very. clear where in laying some of this out. what the rert side said was that rert as. the founder knows these companies better. than anyone and believes that laan is in. the best position to carry on the. successful strategy to be the leader of. these companies now what's the strategy. we know the strategy the strategy is. that so many of these murder Outlets are. these right-wing sort of clarans and so.

there's a concern that the three would. outvote the one and change the editorial. orientation of the companies which again. would jeopardize the value of the. companies so what does that boil down to. Dad's doing this for you guys I'm taking. away your power but you can thank me. later that's basically the argument and. what's the evidence that that's actually. true I mean that it would jeopardize the. value of the companies. well it's a great question and just to.

preface my answer I just want to make. clear we don't know how much that is. going to be litigated in this court case. but it's a very important and. interesting question and what rert. Murdoch could point to and laa Murdoch. could point to Is 2020 election night. has happened and fox declares that Joe. Biden has won the key State of Arizona. which really hurts Trump's ability to. claim he's the true winner and Trump is. furious his base voters are Furious and. and therefore the fox audience is.

furious and that audience for a Time. fleas the network there's a cratering of. ratings okay it's a crisis and so Fox. scrambles to get them back it starts. trafficking it's opinion host especially. start trafficking in some of the stolen. voter conspiracy and having guests on. who are talking about it and letting. Trump make these arguments that the. election was stolen now they do that and. they get their audience back but they.

wouldn't have been able to presumably in. this different direction scramble to the. Trump base and give them what they. wanted which is always the rert rule. give them what they want okay so there. is something to Rupert's argument right. I mean there is value here in going in. the direction that he says Fox should be. going and you know if it leaves this. spot where it is on the political. Spectrum its viewership could suffer.

well yeah and especially now I want to. say because the viewers who fled Fox had. somewhere else to go they could go to. Newsmax which is a new right-wing rival. to Fox there was one America news that. flanked it out to its right was plenty. happy trafficking in that kind of. conspiracy there are websites there are. podcasts the Fox News audience has never. had more places to go to on its right so. there is a real competitive issue there. so what did James and his sisters say to. that well again we don't know the.

particulars because this whole case is. sealed so there's so much that's. happening here in secret and our access. is fairly limited but we do know what. James has said in the past and what. James's argument was back when he was. running the company with his brother was. sure you're going to get the short-term. rating gains no doubt I don't think he. ever argued with that but at what cost. and let's remember what happened after. the 2020 election yes Fox regained its. ratings footing flanked out its. right-wing competitors but boy did it. come at a cost as you might remember.

there was a voting company called. Dominion voting systems that was in the. center of some of those voting. conspiracies those voting conspiracies. popped out onto Fox's air they were. about this supposed voting machine. company switching Trump votes to Biden's. votes the company files a defamation. suit and in the end Rupert Murdoch is. forced to Shell out the biggest. defamation settlement in known history. of almost $800 million they're facing. another lawsuit yeah it's a lot of money.

I mean it was a huge financial hit for. the company and kind of showed how going. too far out there in the conspiracy. world could cost real world money right. yeah and by the way it didn't end with. Dominion there's another suit still. pending by another voting company part. of the same conspiracy called smartmatic. it's suing Fox for almost $2.6 billion. these are gigantic sums for any. Corporation in America let's face it but. I want to say one thing from the court. papers we we've obtained James and his. sisters are making a more narrow.

argument that boils down to Dad you. can't do this this is favoring one over. the other and the trust as written very. clearly said they all had to be treated. equally and this is certainly not equal. okay so now all of this is in the hands. of a court in Nevada yeah basically as. we understand it in September all the. drama will play out Behind These closed. doors and it will fall to this probate. Commission. County Nevada to decide where this all.

ends. up so Jim just taking a step back for a. second you know we've been talking to. you literally for years about this. family and it just seems like it goes. around and around the succession battle. it's settled then it's not it comes back. again alliances shift but this time you. know in that Court it really does feel. like maybe this is it we're going to get. the answer the series finale well in the. real life version of the story there. never season finales it's possible it's.

this judge could say hey rer gets his. say here it's. lockin and then Fox News stays Fox News. The Empire stays intact everything goes. in its way or he says rer can't do this. and then You' think you have an answer. okay now you have a solid block of the. other three they will rest this away. from Lin they will change Fox News. change the Empire. but that's might not be the case because.

all these children over the course of. all these decades I've been covering. this family their alliances are. constantly shifting James and Elizabeth. aren't talking James and Lan aren't. talking James and rert aren't talking so. we don't even know that after rubert. dies these three are going to stay in a. block so think about it this. way the fate of the most influential. conservative media Empire in the entire. English-speaking world and by. extension the politics of the English.

speaking world and beyond all rest on. these few siblings finding a way to. finally get along and good luck with. that God. bless Jim thank you thank you so. [Music]. much we'll be right back. [Music].

here's what I'll do should know today. well good. afternoon and this is a very good. afternoon on Thursday morning President. Biden announced that an elaborate. prisoner swap involving seven different. countries had freed three Americans and.

one American green card holder who'd. been held in Russia among those released. were Evan gershkovich a Wall Street. Journal reporter alsu kurmasheva a. reporter at Radio free Europe Vladimir. karura a columnist at the Washington. Post and Paul wheen a corporate Security. executive and former Marine all four. have been in prison unjustly in Russia. Paul for nearly 6 years. Vladimir since.

2022 Evans since March of 2023 and ALU. since October of. 2023 it was the largest and most complex. East West prisoner swap since the Cold. War and involved months of delicate. negotiations between the US Germany. Poland Slovenia Norway turkey and Russia. and now their brutal or deal is over and. they're free. for Russia the swap meant the release of.

a prized figure Vadim kosikov a Russian. hitman convicted of murdering a chin. fighter in Germany on orders from the. Kremlin on Thursday. night gershkovich Wan and kurashova. landed at Andrew's Air Force Base in. Maryland where they were met by their. families President Biden and vice. president kamla Harris.

and on Thursday night the United States. weighed into Venezuela's disputed. presidential election with Secretary of. State Anthony blinkin recognizing the. opposition candidate edmundo Gonzalez as. the winner blinkin said in a statement. that the evidence was quote overwhelming. setting up a clash with the country's. authoritarian president Nicholas Maduro. who himself had claimed victory in this. weekend's.

election a quick reminder to catch a new. episode of the interview right here. tomorrow this week David maresi speaks. with actor Vince vaugh about R-rated. comedies timidity in Hollywood and just. how much fatherhood changed him I don't. know that I've changed as far as like oh. I was cold and callous and now I've. learned to love I think it's just made. me more more empathetic more patient.

just because the nature of the. job today's episode was produced by Eric. kruy AA chatra and Olivia Nat it was. edited by Mark George with help from. Rachel quer contains original music by. Dan Powell Diane Wong and Marian Lozano. and was engineered by Chris Wood our. theme music is by Jim brunberg and Ben. lansberg of wonderly. [Music].

that's it for the daily I'm Sabrina. Tavern you see see you on Monday. [Music].