The Secret Push That Could Ban TikTok

from The New York Times I'm Sabrina. tavernes and this is the. [Music]. daily American lawmakers have tried for. years to ban the video app Tik Tok over. concerns that it's ties to China pose a. national security risk last week they. passed a law that might finally do. it today my colleague subna maheswari on.

the secret effort behind the law and. what a ban would mean for the company's. 170 million American. [Music]. [Applause]. [Music]. users it's Tuesday April. [Music]. 30th so sna tell me about this law that. just passed that potentially Bans the.

social media app Tik Tok we've seen. efforts in the past to R in Tik Tok but. this one really seems like the most. substantial yet it's a huge deal what. this law really does is it puts the. future of this hugely popular app with. 170 million American users into question. Tik Tok has reshaped the way many people. listen to music it's changed the way we. cook it's made a whole different kind of. celebrity but it's never never been able.

to shake these concerns around the fact. that it has really close ties to China. it's owned by a Chinese company bite. dance and lawmakers for years have been. worried that the Chinese government. could somehow use bite dance and Tik Tok. to get information on Americans or. possibly spread. propaganda president Trump tried to ban. it in 2020 the state of Montana tried to. ban this app last year Tik toks largely. survived those challenges but this time.

it could actually be banned in the. United States so let's talk about this. why did this effort succeed where the. other ones failed so it's an interesting. story here we go the committee will come. to order and it really dates back to. this hearing about a year ago that. Congress had with showu the CEO of Tik. Tok Mr Chu you are here because the. American people need the truth about the. threat Tick Tock poses to our national. and personal security so members of.

committee thank you for your time Tik. Tok has repeatedly said that it has. addressed these National Security. concerns and that there's no issue here. and you can hear that when Shu testified. let me start by addressing a few. misconceptions about bite dance of which. we are a subsidiary bite dance is not. owned or controlled by the Chinese. government he's saying you American. investors are behind bite Dance Now Tik. Tok itself is not available in mainland. China where headqu reped in Los Angeles.

and in Singapore and I myself am. Singaporean I live in Singapore the. bottom line is this American data stored. on American soil by an American company. overseen by American personnel and we. are actually going above and beyond what. American technology companies do to keep. things safe and I look forward to your. questions thank you very much and is. Congress convinced by that Congress is. not convinced by that bent is a Chinese.

company well CH B Dan owns many. businesses that operates in China is it. or is it not a Chinese company uh. Congressman the way we look at it it was. founded by Chinese I'm not asking you. how you look at it fact is it a Chinese. company or not for example it was this. really fiery 5H hour hearing where. Republicans and Democrats asked really. contentious questions we do not promote. or remove content at the request of the.

government. question the question is are you 100%. certain that they cannot use your. company to promote such messages it is. our commitment to this committee and all. our users that we will keep this free. from any manipulation by any government. if you can't say 100% certain I take. that as a no there's this underlying. sense of distrust around the company and. its ties to China search it I will. remind you that making false or. misleading statements to Congress is a. federal crime I understand.

again if you go on a platform you will. find that content and it becomes clear. through the hearing that across the. board Republicans and Democrats largely. feel the same way uh Mr Chu I got I got. to hand it to you you've actually done. something that in the last three to four. years has not happened except for the. exception of maybe Vladimir Putin you. have unified Republicans and. Democrats so you know within weeks of. this hearing this small group of. lawmakers get together and they say.

let's come up with a law that works. where all the other ones have failed and. actually make Tik Tok answer to its. Chinese connections once and for. [Music]. all so tell me about this small group of. lawmakers who are they so it starts with. Republicans among them is Steve scal one. of the most powerful Republicans in the. house and a small group sort of works. together for a few few months but they.

realized that in order to really make. this law work they're going to need. Democrats so they end up working through. this house committee that's focused on. China and competition and this is where. the bulk of the work on this bill takes. place and just to note this is a really. small group there's less than 20 key. players who are working on this and all. throughout they are keeping this very. very secret and why exactly are they. keeping it secret what's the point of.

that so this group really wanted to keep. this out of the eyes of Tik Tok which. has a huge lobbying presence in DC and. has successfully worked to kill bills. that targeted Tik Tok in the past and. what they're really doing is looking at. all of the past efforts to either force. a sale or a ban of Tik Tok and trying to. work their way through why those plans. didn't succeed and what they can do. differently but while the lawmakers are. working on this bill something big.

happens that kind of changes the. politics around it and that's October. [Music]. 7th your social media feat are unique to. you but could they be shaping how you. view the Israel Gaza wall the BBC's dis. as the war breaks out and people start. getting information about it a lot of. people are getting information about the. Israel Hamas war on Tik Tok especially. young people social media algorithm seem.

to be driving some users towards. increasingly divisive posts and there's. this big messy argument spilling out. into living rooms and all over the. Internet and of course on Tik Tok and. it's getting very heated for instance. there's this moment in the fall where a. bunch of Tik Tok users start sharing. this old Manifesto I read Osama Bin. Laden's letter to America it's wild and. everyone should read it go read a letter. to America like seriously go read it. that was actually written written by.

Osama Bin Laden defending the 911. attacks and criticizing the United. States support of Israel Tik Tok users. start trying to tie it to the modern day. conflict reading this letter it becomes. apparent to me that the actions of 9/11. were all just the buildup of our. government failing other nations and. this letter the way this letter is going. viral right now is giving me the. greatest sense of relief now it's all. coming to light because of Palestine and. there's the accusations that Tik Tok may.

be promoting one side of the conflict. over the other and a couple of. researchers look at hashtags around. Palestine and they say that the data. they pulled shows that Tik Tok is. showing way more Pro Palestine videos. and not so much for Israel and this sets. off huge alarm bells for this small. group of. [Music]. [Applause]. lawmakers but isn't that just a function.

of the fact that Tik Tok at this point. is the Public Square in the United. States for young people I mean this is. what young people were talking about and. this is where they're doing the talking. Tik Tok has pushed back really. forcefully against these accusations. they said that Gallup polls show that. young people view Israel differently. than older Generations they say that. they're not the ones influencing what. people post that the hashtags and the. videos are a reflection of the user base.

and nothing that they're doing to. influence but for lawmakers this doesn't. really make their concerns go away. instead this conflict shows them how Tik. Tok could be used to spread propaganda. it made lawmakers feel that you know Tik. Tok could be really dangerous when it. comes to shaping the views of Americans. on foreign policy on us elections and. what it also does it provides this. driving force to this group that's. drafting this bill and they suddenly see.

that you know this might be a way to. bring more people into their effort and. so heading into November against this. backdrop they even bring in the White. House and the justice department to help. work on this bill and with the White. House you know they want to make sure. that this is a bill that the president. will support and they work with the. justice department to shore up the. language in the bill to help defend. against Court challenges because the. justice department of course would be. the one that would have to defend the. bill right that's EX exactly right and.

so they're trying to make it as rock. solid as possible so that they can win. in court when Tik Tok challenges this. law and so March rolls around and they. decide that it's time to unveil this. bill that they've been working on for. close to a. year the battle over Tik tock on Capitol. Hill is intensifying this morning house. lawmakers have agreed unanimously to. move a bill to a full floor vote and Tik. Tok is caught completely flat-footed. they didn't see this coming and this is. just what the group wanted so Tik Tok.

has this Army of lobbyists that's. suddenly scrambling and they go into. damage control mode they start reaching. out to members of Congress this app is. so much more than just an app for dumb. Tik Tock dances they fly a group of Tik. Tock stars and small businesses to come. to DC a lifechanging app and Lobby on. the steps of the capital and meet with. lawmakers standing up here with all. these amazing Tik tokers behind me is a.

complete honor and every single one of. them would voice their opinion just like. this this is how we feel this has to. stop they set up interviews between. these you know Tik Tok creators as. they're known and big TV shows and news. programs and they're doing everything. they can to fight against this bill. before it goes any further and then they. decide to do something. unusual which is use Tik Tok itself to. try and derail this bill how exactly did. they do that so days after this bill is.

announced a ton of Tik Tok users get a. message when they open the Tik Tok app. that basically says call Congress and. tell them not to ban Tik Tok okay so. like literally this window comes up and. says call Congress here you go exactly. you can enter your zip code and there's. a button that appears and you can press. it and the call goes straight to your. representative oh wow so offices are. quickly overwhelmed by calls and Tik Tok. sent out this message to users on the.

same day that a house committee is going. in to vote on this bill and whether to. move it forward and so the stunt happens. they go into vote and they come out and. it's 50 to zero in support of the Bill H. one of the representatives who worked on. the bill said that this Stunt by Tik Tok. turned a lot of NOS into yeses and yeses. into quote hell yeses so the whole. episode sounds like it actually. backfired right like Tik Tok stun. essentially just confirmed what was the.

deepest fears of lawmakers about this. company that the app could be used to. influence American politics that's. definitely how a lot of lawmakers viewed. it and when this bill is brought to the. Full House a week later it passes by an. overwhelming majority and weeks later it. passes in the Senate as part of a. broader Aid package and on Wednesday. it's signed into law by President Biden.

but now the question is what does it. mean like how will this actually work. and how will it affect the tens of. millions of Americans who use Tik Tok. every. [Music]. day we'll be right. back so subna now that Biden has signed. this Bill what does it actually mean in.

practice for Tik Tok What does the law. do so the law is really trying to push. bite dance the company that owns Tik Tok. to sell to a non-chinese. owner and the company basically has nine. months for this sale to happen there's. an option for President Biden to add. another three months to that clock and. if the company doesn't find a buyer or. refuses to be sold it will be banned.

and what would a ban actually mean sub I. mean people would still have the app on. their phones right so it wouldn't like. disappear overnight yeah no one's coming. to pick up your phone and to forcibly. delete this thing uh what the law says. is that app stores and web hosting. Services wouldn't be allowed to carry. Tik Tok anymore so basically it would. kind of die a slow death over time where. it wouldn't be updated and just kind of. Peter out so the bottom line here is. that the clock has started on this. potential sale right they have 12 months.

to find a buyer so what are the. obstacles here I mean it sounds pretty. ferociously complicated there's a ton of. challenges here and it's a very messy. Choose Your Own. Adventure so one of the first big. questions is who could buy this right. bite dance and Tik Tok are private we. don't know their financials but analysts. estimate that it will cost tens of. billions of dollars that narrows the. buying pool pretty quickly and a lot of. the companies that could afford to buy.

it like meta the owner of Facebook or. Google which owns YouTube would probably. be you know kicked out of the sort of. running because they are simply too big. uh Regulators would say you know you. already own these big apps you can't. possibly add this to your stable there'd. be a monopoly concern there exactly and. then there's a lot of questions around. how this would work technically bite. dance and Tik Tok are very much Global. organizations you have the CEO in. Singapore they have huge operations in.

Ireland they have this big Workforce in. the US and of course they do have. engineers in China so how do you you. know extract all those things make it. all work it's a very big International. transaction right and then there is the. chance that the Chinese government. blocks this sale and says you cannot do. this bite dance we will not allow it so. sna how does that actually work though. in terms of China I mean can China. actually just ban the sale of this.

company I mean it is a private company. after all right well here's one way it. could work the Chinese government could. block the export of Tik tok's algorithm. and let me explain that in kind of plain. English please they could basically. block the technology that fuels The. Tick-Tock of this app the. recommendations the magic of it why you. see what you see when you're looking at. Tik Tok Tik Tock is that an adjective. that is now an adjective. and there's a chance that vent could say.

hey you can't export this technology. that is proprietary and if that happens. that suddenly makes Tik Tok way way less. valuable so the Chinese government could. let the sale go through potentially but. as a kind of an empty shell right the. thing that makes Tik Tok Tik Tok the. algorithm wouldn't be part of the. company so that probably isn't very. appealing for a potential buyer exactly. and I mean the role of the Chinese. government here is really interesting.

I've talked to experts who say well if. the Chinese government interferes to try. and block a sale of this app doesn't. that underscore and prove all the. concerns that have been expressed by. American lawmakers exctly if you're. worried about China being in control of. this thing well that just confirmed your. fears exactly and it's it's I mean it's. an interesting thing that bite dance and. Tik Tok have to Grapple with so bottom. line here selling Tik Tok is quite. complicated and perhaps not even. possible for these reasons that you're. giving right I mean not least of which. because the Chinese government might not.

allow the algorithm to leave the country. and that's not something that the US. Congress has a lot of control over so is. this law fundamentally just a ban then. that's what Tik Tok is calling it right. after this bill was signed into law on. Wednesday make no mistake this is a ban. a ban on Tik Tok and a ban on you and. your voice Tik tok's CEO made a Tik Tok. What else that explain the company's.

position because the freedom of. expression on Tik Tok reflects the same. American values that make the United. States a beacon of Freedom he actually. argued that Tik Tok reflects American. values Tik Tok gives everyday Americans. a powerful way to be seen and heard and. that's why so many people have made Tik. Tok part of their daily lives and he. said that this law infringes on the. First Amendment Free Speech rights of. Americans who love it who use it every. day the courts the facts and the.

Constitution are on our side and we. expect to Prevail again so it's very. clear that Tik Tok plans to challenge. this law in court and the court fight to. follow will determine the fate of Tik. tok's future in the US so is that first. amendment argument that the Tik Tok CEO. is making here going to work nobody. wants to put money on that I mean the. company is really approaching this with. the idea that the First Amendment rights.

of Americans are being infringed on but. if you remember the government has been. working on this law they've been. anticipating those challenges and they. can justify an infringing of First. Amendment rights in certain cases. including with National Security. concerns and so it'll be up to a judge. on whether those concerns pass muster. and justify this sale and even a. potential ban of Tik Tok got it so Tik. Tok will argue Free Speech First. Amendment and the government will. counter by saying look this is about.

China this is about America's national. security interests that's right and the. legal experts that I've spoken with say. this is a really big and sticky area of. the law and it's a huge case and they. really think that this will go to the. Supreme Court regardless of who wins in. kind of the first round of. this so where does that leave the. millions of Americans who use Tik Tok. and many of them of course who earn a. living on the platform I mean it's. really uncertain what happens now with. the company and the clock has started.

ticking when I've looked at Tik Tok and. looked at videos from users this is. about the impending Tik Tock. band and just triggered me so much makes. my blood boil and I have to get this out. there there's a lot of shock the most. success I've had has been here on Tik. Tok and now they're trying to take it. away this is so stupid and anger you. can't ban apps You Can't Ban things from.

people people are confused word on the. street is that in the next 9 to 12. months Tik Tok could be banned and. they're also caught a bit off guard just. because there have been these years of. efforts to do something about Tik Tok. people on the app have been hearing. about a Tik Tok ban really since 2020. like the government can take away a. literal app on our phones and supposed. to believe we're free you know a few Tik. tokers have said you how can this be the. thing that the government is pushing. through so quickly can we stop funding a.

genocide no can we get free covid tests. no can we stop killing the planet no can. we at least watch videos on an app of. people doing fun things and learn about. the world around us no so there's this. sense of distrust and disappointment for. many people who love this app we got rid. of Tik Tok you're welcome protecting you. from China you know that phone was made. in China. and I think there's also this question.

too around what about Tik Tok makes it. so harmful even though it has. increasingly become a place for news. there's plenty of people who simply use. this app for entertainment and what. they're seeing out of Washington just. doesn't square with the reality they. experience when they pull out their. phones and I wonder subna I mean just. kind of you know stepping back for a. second let's say this on Tik Tok. succeeds if it goes through would.

Americans be better off it depends who. you ask for the users who love Tik Tok. if it actually disappeared it would be. the government taking away a place where. maybe they make money where they get. their entertainment where they figure. out what to read or what to cook next to. free speech Advocates this would be. dystopian um unheard of for the. government to crack down on an app with. such wide usage by by.

Americans but for the American political. class and the National Security. establishment this is a necessary move. one that was years in the making not. something that was just come up with on. the Fly and ultimately it all comes down. to. China and this idea that you can't have. a social media app like this a source of. news like this that is even at all at. risk of being influenced by the Chinese. government and our greatest.

[Music]. adversaries subna thank you thank. you we'll be right. back here's what else you should know. today on Monday in its latest. high-profile Showdown with prop. Palestinian protesters Columbia. University gave students until 2:00 p.m.

to clear out from an encampment at the. center of Campus or face. suspension it appeared to be an effort. to remove the encampment without relying. on New York City Police whose removal of. a previous encampment there 2 weeks ago. inspired similar protests on campuses. across the country. free hi this is Sharon otterman. reporting for the New York. Times at 2m. dead line for protesters to. clear out of the encampment at the.

Center of Columbia University has come. and gone and there's still quite a large. contingent inside the encampment but. Monday's warning seemed only to. Galvanize the Columbia protesters and. their supporters and hundreds of. students and others from around the. campus have come out to support them. they are currently walking around in a. picket around the encampment hundreds of. students standing four or five people. deep encircled the encampment in a show.

of solidarity they were joined by. members of the Columbia faculty there's. also dozens of Faculty members who are. prepared to stand in lines in front of. the main entrance to the encampment in. case Public Safety or the NYPD move in. but as of two there was no sign of that. happening instead then on Monday evening. Colombia announced it had begun to. suspend students who had failed to leave.

the encampment it was unclear exactly. how many students had been. [Music]. suspended today's episode was produced. by Will Reed Michelle bancha and Rob. zipco it was edited by Mark George and. Liz oalen. contains original music by Dan Powell.

and Marian Lozano and was engineered by. Chris Wood our theme music is by Jim. brunberg and Ben Lanser of. wonderly special thanks to Sharon. otterman. [Music]. [Music]. that's it for the daily I'm Sabrina.

tavernes see you tomorrow. [Music].