The Rise and Fall of Congestion Pricing in New York

daily producer will Reed here in New. York it's about. 850 and I'm on my way to meet Michael. Barbaro and oh there he is welcome to. the neighborhood thank you it's. beautiful here it. is so um where are we going we are going. to my car I confess I have a car in. Brooklyn and we're going to use it to. commute in manatt which is not a thing I.

normally do via car but there's a. journalistic rationale which we will get. to you're going to sit. here okay I'm going to open the windows. just get a little air in. here so Michael why are we driving into. New York today we are driving into. Manhattan in order to study observe lay.

eyes on what was supposed to be this. first in the nation tolling system for. cars entering a downtown it's an. anti-traffic program that says if you. want to be part of traffic then you have. to pay for it it's been in the works for. years so we're just going to go. basically do a dry run through the. infrastructure of this tolling. system known as congestion.

pricing we're now on a ramp taking us. off the FDR at East 61st Street so we. are one block north of the congestion. pricing zone so we're going to go. straight oh there's the cameras so oh. you see them yeah we are seeing the. tolls and in fact I'm just going to slow. down and we are now inching underneath. these camera tools there's three in a.

row these are I don't know 3 feet by 4. feet. 4x4 metal boxes with lights and glass. and cameras inside they're kind of in. the trees on a big metal post yeah I. feel like we're under the UFO right now. we are under the UFO waiting for it to. open and something to emerge and uh this. is congestion pricing and this is the. system these cars behind us are like. what what the heck are you doing this is.

journalism my. friends the bus has every right to be. mad at. us all right all right all right Tough. City we are now in the congestion. pricing Zone driving. across essentially Midtown you know and. the goal is that this typically very. congested. neighborhood of Manhattan which you can. just I mean just look at all these cars.

right the idea is that you slice some. percentage of these cars out of the. equation and we should. say the reason why we are stopping in. the middle of York Avenue and looking at. this tolling system is because we just. learned that the governor of New York. Kathy hoko is putting an indefinite. pause on this system and if that pause. turns into what I suspect is a forever.

pause on this thing none of these. cameras will ever be operational and. this system will just become a. relic and the story of how New York got. to a point where all of these cameras. and tools and infrastructure were. installed and now at the very last. minute the plug is being pulled on this. system is.

a complicated story that I think is. worth. untangling cue the theme. [Music]. song from New York Times I'm Michael. babbaro this is the. daily today the rise and fall of. congestion pricing in New York. City I spoke with my colleagues Anna Le. and Grace.

[Music]. Ashford it's Monday June. 10th well Anna welcome to the daily. thank you you cover transportation in. New York City for the times I want to. start with the question of how and why.

congestion pricing was ever going to. come to New York in the first place yes. if for a long time New York City was. really wrestling with the problem of. traffic in Manhattan it's one of the. most congested places in the country. right so for more than 50 years there's. been this idea that people have talked. about uh charging people to drive into. this part of the city to pay for the. privilege of getting to reach some of.

the most famous destinations and. neighborhoods in New York City Soho. Chelsea Hells Kitchen Wall Street Time. Square the Theater District that there. should be a fee if you're going to bring. a car into this place that you could. very easily reach via public transit and. there are other big cities that have. congestion pricing like London and. Singapore and. Stockholm and for people who think that. this is a good idea.

New York just seemed like a really good. setting to experiment with it in the. United States because it's so walkable. we have great access to the subway we've. got buses we've got Commuter Rail lines. right there's alternatives to a car thus. potentially an ideal place to ask people. to get out of their cars right yeah and. so to bring this concept to the United. States New York City is the place where. it's going to happen it's either going. to happen here or it's not going to. happen any anywhere in the country and.

what exactly is the logic of making. people pay for the privilege what is it. supposed to do it's supposed to. discourage you from driving in at all. it's supposed to encourage you to take. mass transit and it serves a greater. good for people not only in their. ability to get around but also in having. a more enjoyable place to live and a. cleaner place to live right fewer cars. less air pollution the thinking has. always been a more pleasant City exactly.

okay you said this idea has been kind of. kicking around why doesn't it in New. York seem to go. anywhere well there are a lot of people. who don't want to pay a lot of people in. borrows outside of Manhattan people in. New Jersey in Connecticut and so there. there's been a lot of resistance over. the years and politicians sometimes. propose it and then just backed away. because it's not popular mhm and when. does that start to. change I think think 2017 was a big.

Turning. Point chaos deep underground a subway. train derailing violently tossing people. to the Floor Service in the New York. City subway just gets unbearable just. weeks ago panicked passengers trapped on. another broken down subway train over an. hour no air conditioning there are all. kinds of delays and service disruptions. it's another day another meltdown on the. subway with these breakdowns becoming an. almost daily occurrence many passengers.

tell us they've simply had enough and. people are just so frustrated they can't. get to where they need to go for F's. sake the New York Post wrote fix the. Subways in New York it's known as the. summer of hell for commuters Governor. Cuomo Under Pressure to fix the transit. mess now making headlines by calling. congestion pricing an idea whose time. has come so the governor at the time. Andrew Cuomo has this very clever idea. to use congestion pricing money to pay. for the repairs that are needed in the.

subway H and I guess we should explain. to listeners in New York the Subways. which are all in New York City are paid. for by the state right and lawmakers. around the state realize oh this is a. way to address this nuisance that we've. been having to deal with for so long. that takes care of something that they. keep putting off sort of you know budget.

cycle after budget cycle right you're. saying around this time all those people. in the state government start to look at. the subway. mess and see this is something they just. don't want to have to keep dealing with. and suddenly congestion pricing which. had been something they all look to. scance at as something that might piss. off their constituents suddenly looks. like not such a bad idea anymore exactly. yeah so at this point um there seems to. be a really clean solution in front of.

them so once Governor Cuomo in the state. legislature starts to get a little. excited about this idea what is the. actual operational plan that takes form. so the idea is to make a Zone where the. tolls are in effect so in this case the. zone is anything south of 60th Street. which is a part of Manhattan that is. just constantly choked with traffic uh. this is you know cars delivery vans. Ubers lifts ambulances I mean any type.

of vehicle you can think of is is there. MH and this program would toll those. vehicles for coming into the zone or for. getting around the zone and those tolls. range depending on how big the vehicle. is and what time of day it is and the. most expensive would be for big trucks. uh and at peak hours when the tolls are. most expensive those trucks would pay. $36 a car like like you and I might.

drive those would uh cost. $15 taxis and Ubers and lifts are. different there would be a fee that's. tacked on for the passenger taxis would. pay. a125 and Ubers and lifts would pay $250. per trip within the Zone those passenger. fees for getting in a taxi don't sound. like a ton of money for each person who. gets into a cab but the $15 for. passenger cars and the $36 for a. commercial truck that's real money and.

I'm just doing the math if you commute. it into the city even just three days a. week in a passenger car that's. $45 a week so what was the thinking. behind those numbers well they don't. want you to drive into the Zone that's. the whole point right so it's meant to. be high it's meant to contain a kind of. sticker shock exactly I'm curious. because this is about raising money for. the Subways just how much money does. this proposed set of tolls. raise it's supposed to raise a billion.

dollars annually which is money that can. be used for all kinds of things within. the subway system to make it run better. and it would mean that the Subways would. have that money forever without having. to go to the state and ask for money so. that they could do these repairs right. but there are many other benefits that. advocates for the program have pointed. to including the fact that it could. reduce traffic by 177% in the zone it.

would also mean that buses would be able. to travel more quickly and New York city. has the slowest buses in the nation I. mean in some cases you can walk more. quickly than if you were to take a bus. somewhere shocking yeah and so that. would be a huge Improvement to the. transit Network and finally this would. save the region billions of dollars that. it loses to people just sitting in. traffic all day idling because if you're. sitting in your car idling you're not. working deliveries aren't being being. delivered right it hurts the economy is.

the thinking yeah and that's why this. plan had a lot of support from transit. Advocates from business Community. leaders in New York City and from Plenty. of regular New Yorkers who don't own. cars and they rely on the Subways and. the buses to get around the city I'm. curious who ends up opposing this plan. once it seems like the state's. government is starting to get behind it. well a lot of State lawmakers really. like the idea of dedic ated money for. the Subways that congestion pricing.

would bring but it's not something that. a lot of their constituents who live. outside of the city care very much about. congestion pricing to a lot of people. still look like a tax on commuting into. Manhattan which is kind of this elitist. idea that people consider to be anti-ar. and it was a change it was something. unknown and people don't tend to like. that so the same forces that had made. this plan so unpopular for for the past. 50 plus years we still very much in full.

force you could see that in the. political realm and in the courts that. idea really started to build you know. right now there are eight lawsuits. against congestion pricing one of them. is from the Staten Island burough. president who says his constituents just. don't want to pay to come into the Zone. New Jersey's also suing the teachers. union is suing really yeah and what's. the basis the legal basis for most of. these laws.

well the city's teachers are suing. because for example a lot of them drive. into Manhattan every day to work at the. schools and basically they don't think. it's fair to pay these tolls they say it. would be a financial hardship to them. others are challenging it because. they're concerned that they could see. more pollution or more traffic in their. neighborhoods if people start driving. around the zone to get away from the. tolls I'm curious what your reporting. tells us about who would actually pay. the congestion toll based on the history.

of who actually goes into this Zone what. we have found is that people entering. the zone are mostly pretty well off just. to give you a sense of that a data. company that we worked with called. replica crunched some numbers for us and. what they found was that the average. income of people that drive into the. zone is around. $181,000 got it and people who make less. than $50,000 who have to commute into. the zone are very few it's 1% of the. people people that go into the zone so.

what that tells you is that most of the. people communting into the Zone can. probably afford this toll right if they. want to drive right and yet there's. still clearly a lot of vocal opposition. as well as legal opposition does any of. this opposition gain much traction not. really I mean the court cases are still. pending but their support at the highest. level of state government Governor kuo. the original champion of this plan ends. up resigning but his successor Kathy.

hokel is equally supportive so the. momentum for congestion pricing just. keeps. building well that controversial. congestion pricing plan for New York. City is a go today getting the official. green light from the Metropolitan. Transportation Authority board the MTA. board took a vote today strongly yes. this is a true victory for our city and. for our region the motion is a. proof and before long there's a date.

starting Sunday June 30th at midnight. drivers that need to go south of 60th in. Manhattan will be slapped with a new. toll the system is in place the cameras. and the sensors are up just over 9 weeks. until the mta's cameras including these. here at 61st and 11th will begin. scanning license plates there are you. know informational sessions there's a. website where people can go and. everything is ready to go.

right this was fate accomp this was an. inevitable and very big change in the. lives of anyone who drives into. Manhattan and then the last person. anyone could have expected to stop this. thing from moving forward governor of. New York Kathy hok the biggest champion. of this thing decides she is pulling the. plug on congestion pricing.

after the break Grace Ashford on why the. governor turned against congestion. pricing we'll be right. back Grace you've been covering Governor. hok's decision-making in The Saga of. congestion pricing and as Anna just said. the reason this was also surprising was. that Governor hokel had been a supporter. of congestion pricing so tell us how the. governor originally talked about this.

idea so even though this congestion. pricing plan begins before Kathy Hogle. takes office she immediately steps in. and Embraces it from time to time. leaders are called upon to Envision a. better future and we see this as. recently as December of 20123 when she. headlines this rally in support of. congestion pricing. and she announces you know not only that.

she supports it be bold in the. implementation and execution and be. undaunted by the opposition but that. this is what it looks like to be a. leader that's how you secure progress. and I think this really fits into a. larger kind of frame of which Kathy. hokel sees herself as the kind of leader. that makes tough decisions that are not. always popular people love New York City. but it's facing some hard times and and.

in this rally she goes on to list all of. the many many benefits that congestion. pricing is projected to bring anybody. sick and tired of gridlock in New York. City she talks about how it's going to. unclog city streets anybody want cleaner. air for our kids and for future. generations and how it's going to make. the air in the city better to breathe. anybody think we deserve better Transit. especially those who live and work. here and crucially how it's going to. bring this really critical funding.

stream to the city's Subways and buses. well then you love congestion pricing. [Music]. [Applause]. right so there's really no ambiguity. here about how the governor is thinking. about congestion pricing just a few. months ago as of December there was no. ambiguity and then of course we get to. last week's pretty remarkable flip-flop. by the governor that's right my.

colleague Dana Rubenstein and I as well. as some other reporters had begun to. hear rumors that the governor might be. considering backtracking and so we began. reporting this out then all of a sudden. we get this announcement that she's. going to be addressing New Yorkers in. the form of a pre-taped speech on. Wednesday first and foremost I. understand the financial pressures. you're facing and she tells me New. Yorkers that she's thinking really hard.

about the economy Over The Last 5 Years. New Yorkers have seen the price of. groceries alone go up an average of. 23% she's thinking about the cost of. housing housing prices have increased by. 177% and she is thinking about New York. City even more broadly anyone walking. through Midtown Manhattan or riding the. subway they've seen it office attendance. is down compared to before the pandemic.

with many workers only commuting in two. or three days a week at and she talks. about how the vacancy rate for. commercial buildings in Manhattan is at. 20% the idea behind congestion pricing. is that'll encourage many current. drivers to shift to public. transit but there is a third possibility. that now poses a greater threat than it. did at the program's. Inception drivers can now choose to stay. home altoe and she says for all of the. these reasons she doesn't think it's.

right to add another burden on New. Yorkers I have come to the difficult. decision that implementing the plan. congestion pricing system risk too many. unintended consequences for New Yorkers. at this time for that reason I have. directed the MTA to indefinitely pause. the program she's decided to delay. congestion pricing indefinitely so in. her telling this is purely an economic. decision congestion pricing she's saying.

is an existential risk to New York's. economy that's right she sees New York. as still too fragile. to take this big step at this moment. there would seem to be a meaningful hole. in this explanation from Governor hok. which is that six months ago when she. gave that full-throated support for. congestion pricing the city's economy.

was pretty much the same as it is right. now I think by some measures the city's. economy has actually only gotten better. over the past six months which leaves. many people not entirely sure that this. is a full explanation for why the. governor has decided to stop congestion. pricing from going into effect well. there is another factor that a lot of. people have pointed out looms pretty. large in the mind of New York Democrats. and that's the election that's coming up.

this November mhm I think in order to. understand this you have to go back to. the 2022 midterm elections when you have. all of these Congressional races and. Governor Cathy hokel herself on the. ballot she very very narrowly won that. race but a lot of Democrats down the. ballot lost right and I think that was a. shock to a lot of people because New. York is a blue state but suddenly there. seemed to be a kind of Red Wave. especially in those congressional seats. that is exactly what Republicans were.

cheering that in fact there was a Red. Wave in New York and that Red Wave. helped them to capture control of the. House of Representatives and I think in. the kind of post-election analysis one. thing that became very clear was just. how successful Republicans were in that. race at deploying these concerns about. crime which was really powerful. particularly in the suburbs where. Democrats saw some of their worst loss. and on its face crime in New York City.

in 2022 and congestion pricing in 2024. are very different issues but there is. this one kind of similarity and that is. that both of these issues are. tremendously important to Suburban. voters who have become really really. crucial for Democrats got it let me just. make some sense of this it's kind of. fascinating after losing a bunch of. congressional races in New York on the. issue of crime. among Suburban voters outside New York.

City Democrats look to this Fall's races. and say to themselves huh congestion. pricing looks like a new version of. crime in the sense that it pisses off. Suburban voters who are let's be honest. in some cases commuters coming into New. York who might not want to pay these. congestion pricing fees and they think. to themselves we might recreate that. exact. same Dynamic this time around yeah and I.

think it's just really important to. remember that wall congestion pricing. has a lot of support in New York City. it's been pretty consistently opposed. outside particularly in the suburbs. where we have up to 70% of New Yorkers. opposing this plan and what I think. Governor hok would say is that this is. the reality that she is responding to. that there are a lot of Regular People. regular New Yorkers who have really. serious concerns okay so by that.

political logic hok seems to have. decided that the risks of pushing. congestion pricing right now in these. months before the election knowing that. it could endanger Democratic control of. Congress potentially on top of her. economic worries about New York City's. recovery and how congestion pricing puts. it at risk that taken together those. risks outweigh congestion pricing chief. benefit which is it's raising a ton of.

money for New York City's Subway and. transportation system that's right and. in fact I think you know having spoken. with some of her advisers and Associates. she would say that in December she. believed that it took. leadership and courage to stand up and. support this. policy it also takes leadership and. courage to stand up now and say this is. not the right time we have to pause okay.

well this all makes me wonder Grace what. happens to the money that congestion. pricing was supposed to have raised. that's now gone poof right a billion. dollars to fund New York cities aging. and at times melting down subway system. what is the governor going to do to find. $1 billion that congestion pricing was. supposed to produce that it now won't. this is is the billion dooll. question initially she had proposed.

maybe raising the payroll tax on New. York City businesses to help make up. this shortfall this would be a tax that. would only go on businesses operating in. New York City but wouldn't that just. hurt New York City businesses which she. said are vulnerable in their economic. recovery wasn't that her explanation for. getting rid of congestion pricing in the. first place and this is exactly the. point that was made by many New York. lawmakers and the business Community who. basically said you know this isn't fair. why are we we solely bearing this burden.

you know whereas congestion pricing. everyone who is driving into New York. City is actually going to help pay for. Less congested streets mhm as of Friday. this proposal is dead in the state. legislature but this leaves this big. question of so what next you know late. on Thursday night there was this idea. floating around to just agree to do. something that would generate a billion. dollars like a big you know billion. dollar. IOU that also appears to maybe not have.

the support it needs to pass raising the. possibility that actually lawmakers. could leave Albany and this legislative. session without doing anything to plug. this hole Grace the governor is calling. this a temporary pause or an indefinite. pause but I think to many people's ears. that sounds like a permanent pause and. and if we're being blunt I wonder if the. reality here is that congestion pricing. in New York City is now dead and if it's. said in New York City is it ever going.

to have a shot to come to the US at. all privately we're hearing that the. governor is telling people that she. really does believe in this policy that. it's just the wrong time but I also. think it's important to pay attention to. this word. indefinite I think at minimum it. suggests that this is not going to be a. brief. pause and I think if you look at the. path that congestion pricing has already.

taken in New York this has been decades. in the making studies and planning and. money and all of that has gone into. building this momentum and in an instant. on Wednesday all of that was taken away. right and I think for people who really. supported congestion pricing they'. always sort of known that there was. going to be this moment of opposition. you look at other cities across the. world that have imped this you can track. that right before a policy like this is.

put into place people get panicked and. you know it takes a little while for. them to get used to it as just sort of a. regular State of Affairs but a lot of. these studies say eventually people do. get used to it mhm New York really was. positioned to lead as an example of what. congestion pricing could be but I think. this decision has a lot of proponents. really concerned that if New York isn't. able to implement this see what other. city.

will I have a final question for you. Grace what happens now to the millions. and millions of dollars of cameras and. detectors that have been installed all. across the congestion Zone in Manhattan. to make this system work they were. supposed to flip a switch and they were. going to go on June 30th what happens to. them what happens to all that money now. it's a really great question you know. I've I've heard some people say we. already have the infrastructure up why.

don't you just take it out for a test. drive tax people a dollar to drive into. the business district and kind of let. them get used to that as far as I know. that idea has no. legs what it does seem like is that on. June 30th New Yorkers will be able to. drive their cars wherever they want in. Manhattan and they'll also be able to. look up at this very visible reminder of. what New York almost. [Music].

did well Grace thank you very much we. appreciate it thanks so much. Michael over the weekend New York State. lawmakers ended their legislative. session without a plan to replace the $1. billion a year in funding that. congestion pricing was supposed to raise. as a result plans to upgrade the city's. Century old subway system are now in.

doubt we'll be right. back here's what else you need to know. today an audacious raid by the Israeli. military over the weekend rescued four. Israeli hostages in Gaza who had been. held there by Hamas since October 7th. and reunited them with their families. but according to officials in Gaza The. Raid killed and wounded scores of.

Palestinians a spokesman for Hamas said. that in response the group would take. punitive measures against remaining. Israeli hostages in Gaza meanwhile a. prominent member of Israel's war cabinet. Benny gance quit on Sunday in protest of. the government's handling of the war in. Gaza gance had set this weekend as a. deadline for Israel's prime minister to. outline a plan to bring the war to an. end. no such plan has been outlined prompting.

gance to. resign today's episode was produced by. Will Reed Nina Feldman Stella tan AA chv. and relle Banja it was edited by. Patricia willins contains original music. by Alicia bitu Dan Powell and Rowan. nisto and was engineered by Alyssa. Moxley our theme music is by Jim. brunberg and Ben lansberg of wonderly.

[Music]. that's it for the daily I'm Michael Boro. see you tomorrow. [Music].