The Republican Plan to Challenge a Harris Victory

from New York Times I'm Michael borro. this is the. [Music]. daily at the Democratic National. Convention Hardy officials are. celebrating polls showing that KLA. Harris is now competitive with Donald. Trump in every major swing state across. the. country today the story of how Republic.

officials in one of those swing states. have taken over an obscure unelected. board to lay the groundwork for. challenging a potential Harris Victory. this. fall my colleague Nick coren. [Music]. [Applause]. [Music]. explains it's Thursday August 22nd.

[Music]. Nick we're talking to you from the. Democratic National Convention in. Chicago but you're not there primarily. to cover Kay Harris's nomination instead. you have been focused for a couple of. years now on the Republican election. strategy for this. election yes so what I've been focused. on really over the past four years since. the 2020 election and the efforts of of.

trump and his allies to overturn his. loss is this growing movement on the. right to kind of disrupt and erode and. destabilize the American electoral. process a movement that really never. went away even though many people stop. paying attention to it exactly this has. been very much alive and very much. active just more in the shadows you know. this is a loose network of political. operatives of activists of lawyers of.

local organizations and National. organizations of conservative think. tanks and sometimes even State. Republican parties and they've been. trying to find weaknesses in the. American electoral infrastructure and. they've got a couple strategies that. they've really deployed over the past. four years to help get them there such. as what so one of them has just been. changing laws regarding voting changing. how votes are cast changing vote by mail. strategies changing who governs the.

electoral process but as we head into. 2024 what's really come into focus is. this obsession with the certification. system in the American electoral process. and just explain that the certification. system so the way it's been described to. me by other election experts is that. when it comes to these officials role in. the certification process it's almost. like a scorekeeper in a basketball game. they're watching as you know different.

points are scored they're telling it up. when you get to the end of the game they. look backwards and say okay all of these. points let's make sure all these points. add up to the final score okay it does. this person won this person lost here it. is it's official there's no going back. in investigating was there a foul. committed in the second quarter you know. was the toe on the line in the third. quarter that should have been a three. instead of a two mhm that was the. referee's job at the time the. scorekeeper just tallies the score and. people up the scores and that's where.

these local election officials fit in to. the certification process their job is. designed to be very important but very. simple make sure the numbers add up and. sign off on the results. right but over the past four years these. loose networks of conservative election. activists and Republican Allied groups. have been trying to. redefine and even remake the.

certification process itself in places. all over the. [Music]. country and where do they find that. certification can be challenged and. where they could maybe play a big role. in sewing doubts around this year's. election so they've tried this wherever. they can but with little success you. know they tried it in Arizona they've. tried it in Nevada in Michigan and yet. each time they've been running up.

against settled case law that kind of. protects the certification process so. now what some of these activists and. organizations have tried to do is change. that law and that's what brings us to. Georgia why Georgia so Georgia was a big. surprise in 2020 when President Biden. won that by 12,000 votes it was the. first Democrat to win in Generations yet. former president Trump just wouldn't.

believe it and there was countless. allegations of you know suitcases full. of ballots corrupted machines all. disproven multiple times so it's long. been this kind of Fever Swamp of doubts. about elections that have festered now. for four years but this election is. looking different for a long time. President Biden was trailing forign. president Trump significantly in the. state but with kamla Harris at the top. of the ticket it's suddenly very close. Trump cannot afford really to lose.

Georgia if he loses Georgia he has a. very slim if any path to winning the. presidency and that's refocused a lot of. the attention on the long-standing. effort in Georgia to find. vulnerabilities to ensure against a. possible loss and in just the past few. months they've had some of their most. notable successes in infiltrating or. influencing the electoral process in. Georgia.

and what does that success look like. exactly well this really begins with the. Takeover of the Georgia state election. board a five- member board now in the. beginning of this year the board was. pretty split you know it takes three. votes to pass a new rule and the. majority of the board members were. either more moderate Republicans voting. to either preserve the status quo or you. know improve rules along with one. Democrat and then there were these other. two members who were proposing new rule.

changes one of whom Dr Janice Johnson is. a very close alag of those right-wing. networks you know we uncovered. recordings of her participating in their. meetings huh but they didn't have the. votes to get these new rules through so. the effort to really change that makeup. starts in. February these two members proposed a. rule that would effectively get rid of. mail and voting in the.

state they got shot down by the three. majority and the key vote is cast by a. man named ed Lindsay he's a former. Republican state legislator and he. really becomes the central Target of. this. campaign designed to force him to leave. the state election. board and it's not just the activists. who are going after him it's Trump Aline. think tanks it's the state party it's. local Republican County.

officials eventually after months of. this pressure campaign the Dam breaks in. May and Ed Lindsay steps. down the speaker of the Georgia house. appoints his replacement a woman named. Janelle King who it becomes clear with. the next few meetings will be siding. with those other two members on the. board and so suddenly that 32 split. swings in the other direction and these.

more right-wing members find themselves. in a position of Power with the ability. to pass new rules and. [Music]. regulations and what does this new 3 to2. majority start to accomplish and pass as. a result the most significant thing that. they did and that's really happened in. Georgia for the right-wing election. activist Network happened a few weeks.

ago when the State Board of election. issued a rule saying that local election. officials at the county level could. conduct a reasonable inquiry as they. were certifying the election and that's. all they said but when you read kind of. between the lines there and you think. about everything that's happened with. certification and the questions that. came up in 2020 and since then it seemed. like a permissible window that could. give local election officials the.

authority to say I have doubts about. this election or I don't want to certify. or I need to see more evidence and we. get into a situation where they could be. running out the clock and missing very. important deadlines that could create. chaos uncertainty or move something to. the courts Nick how do the three. conservative board members who passed. this new rule describe it and defend it. so I've talked to some of them and I've.

watched you know hours of these state. election board meetings and the way they. frame it is that we should all want. investigations and ways to double check. our election results to make sure. they're secure and we're not changing. the deadlines that say you must certify. by this date so they defend it as a step. towards. transparency but what a lot of election. experts and Democrats and even some. Republicans including the Republican.

Secretary of State in Georgia said was. this will only lead to more questions. and perhaps nothing confirmed their. fears more that you know this was a plan. to destabilize election certification in. the event of a trump loss than former. president Trump's own words at a rally. in Atlanta earlier this. month well thank. you I'm thrilled to be back in the great.

state of Georgia I love Georgia where he. called out by name the three members of. the Georgia state election board Janice. Johnson Rick Jeff and Janelle King three. people are all pit bulls fighting for. honesty transparency and victory they're. fighting and one of them was in the. audience are they here where are they. right in front of the Trump podium. Johnston stood up and waved to the crowd.

thank you what a job thank you and their. response was an extensive Ovation thank. you. wow H so here you have former president. Trump blessing seemingly what these. three conservative board members are up. to seeming to encourage them to keep. going and appearing to connect the work. that they're up to to with his own.

campaign and political future in this. election and I think it's important to. take a quick step back and just think. about how bizarre it is that a. presidential candidate knows the names. of local election officials in a state. so well that he has to call them out by. name and say that they're helping to. fight for his victory you know I've been. covering presidential campaigns now for. over a dozen years you as well Michael I.

can't ever remember hearing anything. like that before right because it's. never happened before a president has. never taken an interest in the mechanics. of the certification of an election. before an election in a state like. Georgia the way Donald Trump now has. exactly and so it sends up a warning. signal not just for people in Georgia. but really anyone across the country. Democrat Republic. election official anyone who's concerned.

about this presidential election and. people's willingness to accept its. results we'll be right back. [Music].

so Nick I want to play out a scenario. with you for this fall and how the story. you've been telling us so far might. become the worst case scenario that a. lot of people fear so let's say it's. election day and these Georgia Board of. election rules are in place the results. come in and they are extremely close. maybe KLA Harris is up by five 6 7,000. votes in Georgia and maybe the whole.

election rests on Georgia paint the. picture of what this might look like so. this would exactly be the nightmare. scenario that you know Democrats and. election officials are are concerned. about across the. country so local election officials in. Georgia have to certify the election by. November 12th now with these new rules. in place imagine a county or two in. Georgia and it doesn't even have to be. Bon County or a county that would make.

it determinative it could just be any. County raise their hand and says I've. got evidence of fraud or even I have. concerns and I need to investigate this. fraud and they continue their. investigation and they blow past that. deadline we're into our kind of first. legal gray area. here and now we're getting media. attention and now the Trump campaign and. Republican allies are making this a. story and a political story and it. creates this kind of movement similar to.

what we saw in 2020 but I think what. everyone has to remember about 2020 is. there was a real vacuum of evidence so. what these laws and these local. officials would be doing is creating at. least that veneer of evidence so now. we're heading towards December 11th. which is the federal deadline to certify. slates of electors to the Electoral. College and if we're still in this gray. area you could see a secretary of state.

or a governor saying well the election's. not certified I don't know what I can do. here and missing that deadline furthers. the political legitimacy of the doubts. being spread by right-wing. allies and then we're in a pretty. precarious position heading into. congress's certification of the. Electoral College which happens on. January. 6th now there's pretext for say multiple.

senators or or members of the house to. say well there's evidence of fraud in. Georgia and who knows if that's all that. we know about you know there could be. more and it becomes again this political. movement using these like veneers of of. evidence to possibly throw into question. the results in Congress and that's how. it could spiral to a really dangerous. place but it has to miss all of these. check points and lawsuits and places.

where courts could come in to get to. that well let's talk about those. checkpoints and potential places where. such a scenario would stop in its tracks. and what Democrats the Harris campaign. and mainstream Republicans who don't. want this scenario to happen can do and. are doing to try to ensure that this. doesn't come to pass well one big thing. that they did in the aftermath of. January 6th was Democrats and Republican. an in Congress passed a new law the.

Electoral count Reform Act that sought. to shore up any vulnerabilities in the. federal Congressional. certification now this is the first. presidential election where that law. will be in place and while it may have. set a a slightly earlier or tighter. deadline for federal certification it. also took away a lot of different. Avenues to try and penetrate or alter or. undermine that process so it remains to. be seen exactly how it functions and how.

it will be challenged but they're also. trying to find very explicit case law. state law that contain words like you. shall certify an election shall means. must to make it so clear in precedent. that there's no wiggle room you shall. certify and the election must go forward. and I assume they're doing that because. they want to present that information to. a judge in order to shut down any effort. to question the results exactly the.

courts become the avenue to force these. local election officials or whoever is. refusing to certify to certify the. election and they have evidence of this. working in the past at the state level. you know Arizona there's been challenges. to certification in the past and the. court has ruled pretty clearly no you. must certify the same thing has happened. in multiple States across the country so. there's a good body of evidence and. legal precedent that that these local. election officials must certify there is.

no. discretion and basically that means that. if we were to go back to our scorekeeper. an analysis you know you're the. scorekeeper and tally up the scores and. send them to us if there's issues we. have other means of investigating that. or taking it to. court what else are those worried about. the scenario doing at the moment well I. think you can look at just how big the. legal effort and the legal teams are. getting on on both sides and let's start. with the Democrats they've hired.

hundreds of lawyers both at the national. level working within the Harris campaign. and the DNC and then they've worked with. local lawyers in multiple Battleground. States who have expert knowledge and. ability to work within state law and. they say it's the biggest legal team. they've ever assembled on the Republican. side they've also been Staffing up this. massive legal team within the RNC they. call it their election Integrity unit.

and what they've been doing at the. moment is filing a lot of litigation. that could be used as you know possible. evidence of a problematic election. talking about cleaning voter roles or. you know challenges to absentee ballots. that arrive after the election day but. were postmarked before you know similar. arguments that we heard in 2020 now. they're bringing them beforehand and so. what this amounts to is this legal arms. race you know where lawyers on both. sides are prepping for this. postelection litigation battle that.

really is happening at a scale that we. haven't seen. before Nick I'm curious what people. expect might be the role of in the case. of Georgia the state's two most. important Republican elected officials. the Governor Brian Camp the Secretary of. State Brad raffensberger who four years. ago stood up pretty courageously in the. face of concerns from members of their. own party and said no everything looks.

to be quite kosher here and they tried. to shut down the efforts to object to. the results do people anticipate that. those two officials will do the same. this time around and might that be the. thing that ultimately closes out this. effort to question the results well it. certainly could and secretary of state. raffensberger has been outwardly. critical of the State Board of Elections. already he's issued statements saying. that they're changing rules too close to. the election which is making it.

impossible for local election officials. to keep up which could create errors you. know he's taking their own election. Integrity argument and using it against. them saying that this is actually making. our election less. secure as for governor Kemp he's been. very clear you know since 2020 that he's. not willing to break the law so if any. of these certification battles come down. to court saying he must certify he'll do. that he's a very conservative Governor. he was supportive of the new voting bill. BS that you know a lot of Democrats and.

election experts said was suppressive. but he's also pushed back when Trump has. really targeted him on voting including. recently where he said why are you. attacking me you need to go win an. election essentially so I want to just. level set with you for a minute it seems. from everything you've described here. that this strategy in Georgia is very. likely to rear its head because all that. has to happen is that a single local. official needs to raise their hand and. say under these new state election board.

rules I have concerns and this cycle. this scenario you've. described gets triggered we don't know. how far it will go how long it will play. out but it seems quite likely that some. version of the scenario could happen if. the rule set by the state election board. survives the likely legal challenges. coming and is is still in place in. November then yes I I think we can. probably expect at least one County or. one of the local election officials to.

raise doubts and start that cycle of. uncertainty that quickly moves into the. political Arena and that's where it's. most potent right and as you've. explained here what will feel a little. bit different this time around 2024 from. 2020 is just how. successful these election deniers have. become at putting themselves in the. positions of power of themselves. becoming the scorekeepers as they are. with the Georgia state elections board.

and so if they start to raise the. questions then it will mean these high. ranking. scorekeepers saying that something is. wrong somebody cheated and that may. without any evidence at all carry real. weight with those inclined to doubt the. results exactly I think you know when we. look at polling and we ask what was for. a very long time a simple question to. answer do you trust. the results of elections we've seen a.

large percentage of Republican voters. say no an AP poll about a year ago found. that only 22% of Republican voters had a. high confidence that votes in the. upcoming presidential election would be. counted accurately compared to 71% of. Democrats which means about 80% of. Republicans don't have faith in. elections don't have high confidence. that votes in the upcoming president. election will be.

accurate we've seen really since the. 2020 election intensely partisan focused. um what were once very apolitical. bureaucratic. positions now these are going to be. contested and there's going to be. recruitment for these and and it's also. very hard to quantify because we're. talking about tens of thousands of. offices across the country and so. it's a scale that we can't comprehend.

and where all the little vulnerabilities. could be or where all the little efforts. to put someone on an election board. who's not going to act in good faith mhm. that's perhaps the unfortunate future of. where this leads. [Music]. us well Nick thank you very much we. appreciate it thanks for having me.

we'll be right. [Music]. back here's what else you need to know. today MIT disclosed that its first. incoming class to be admitted since the. Supreme Court banned affirmative action. experienced a precipitous drop in the.

percentage of black Hispanic and Pacific. Islander. students compared to the class of 2027. which was admitted before the ban in the. class of 2028 the percentage of enrolled. black students at MIT dropped from 15%. to 5% and the percentage of Hispanic and. Latino students dropped from 16% to 11%. but the percentage of Asian-American.

students Rose from 40% to. 47% the increase in Asian-American. students is notable because the Supreme. Court's ban on affirmative action was. based in part on a lawsuit claiming that. Elite universities have discriminated. against Asian-American applicants by. holding them to a higher academic. standard than other. groups and.

soon and very soon we're going to be. teaching our daughters and sons about. how this child of an Indian mother and a. Jamaican father two idealistic energetic. immigrants. immigrants how this. child grew up to become the 47th. president of the United.

States that is the best of. America on the third night of the. democratic convention Oprah Winfrey. called on Independent and undecided. voters to cast their ballots for kamla. Harris and Harris's running mate. Governor Tim Walls delivered a. blistering critique of Donald Trump and. Trump's plans for a second term it's an.

agenda nobody asked. for it's a agenda that serves nobody. except the richest and the most extreme. amongst. us and it's an agenda that does nothing. for our neighbors in. need is it weird. absolutely. absolutely but it's also wrong. and it's.

dangerous today's episode was produced. by Olivia AA chv and Eric krupy it was. edited by Patricia willins with help. from Lexi Di and Michael benis was fact. checked by Susan Lee contains original. music by Dan Powell Cory shle Rowan IMO. and Diane wall and was engineered by. Chris Wood our theme music is by Jim. runberg and Ben lansburg of.

wonderl that's it for the daily I'm. Michael Boro see you tomorrow. [Music].