The Origins of Jeffrey Epstein

From the New York Times, [music] I'm. Rachel Abrams and this is the Daily. [music]. The latest release of files related to. the sex offender Jeffrey Epstein left. [music] key questions about his rise to. power and his connections to the. president unanswered. >> [music]. >> Today, my colleague David Enrich. explains how he and a team of reporters. worked to fill in those [music]. mysteries and reveal the truth about.

Jeffrey Epstein's origins. [music]. [music]. It's Tuesday, December 23rd. [music]. David Enrich, welcome to the show. >> Thanks for having me. >> David, I think this is probably your. fourth or fifth appearance on the show. this year to talk about Jeffrey Epstein.

And this time we're having you back. because on Friday there was obviously. this massive file release from the. Justice Department that as far as I. understand it did not really advance our. understanding of Jeffrey Epstein or his. crimes or the people in his orbit. Can. you tell us what you think the biggest. takeaways were? >> It's a hard question because there were. not huge takeaways and we got lots of. bits of incremental color and detail. that reinforced the deep depravity of. Epstein's crimes and the horrible things.

he was doing. We also got some new. tidbits. We saw, for example, Bill. Clinton in numerous photos with Epstein. and his associates, including in a. swimming pool. We saw that one of. Epste's victims back in 1996 had. reported him to the FBI for having child. sexual abuse material. And that's a. decade before we know the federal. prosecutors actually started. investigating Epstein. So that was a. definitely a new development. But for.

the most part, there was nothing here. that fundamentally altered our. understanding of Epstein and his. network. and notably also. [clears throat] very little about Donald. Trump whose name was barely mentioned in. these files. And it was Trump's. relationship with Epstein that triggered. a lot of the political interest in this. investigation to begin with. >> Right. Just to remind people, this whole. file of release is coming about because. of a massive pressure campaign, mostly. from Democrats, but also from some. within the MAGA orbit for Donald Trump. and his administration to release the.

so-called Epstein files, right? And that. basically forced Trump to sign. legislation authorizing these files to. be released from the Justice Department. >> Yeah. It's worth noting that the Justice. Department did not do what it was. legally required to do, which was. release all of the files. And those. files that were released were in many. cases so heavily redacted that you. couldn't make any sense of them. >> And why didn't they release them? The. Justice Department has said that they. will release the rest of the files on an. kind of a rolling basis over the next. few weeks and that they need this. additional time to be able to properly.

review and redact these huge quantities. of materials. >> Okay. So, knowing that there would be. this sort of staggered release, what. were you expecting to get or or maybe. more importantly, what questions were. you hoping that this batch of files. would actually answer? I mean it depends. on your perspective and what your. interest is in this. I mean I think one. of the biggest questions that many. victims have and many people who have. been focusing on Epste for a while are.

are there other men who were enabling. him or participating in sex crimes with. him. And for me and my colleagues, I. I've been working with Matt Goldstein, Jessica Silver Greenberg, and Steve Eer. for months now to really understand. Epstein's financial web that he wo and. looking at his origins and how he went. from kind of this rags to rich's story. where he managed to transform himself. from a working-class family into an. extraordinarily rich and well-connected. person. And so we were wondering if.

there would be any revelations in these. files about that. And we're just. completely disappointed in that regard. >> Well, that reporting that you mentioned. is what I want to talk to you about. because everybody's been eagerly. awaiting the release of these files, right? Like hoping perhaps that the. files would address some of these. enduring questions about Epstein and his. crimes. And obviously that did not. happen on Friday. But you and our. colleagues have been digging into a. different period of Epstein's life, one.

that preceded the era of his most. flagrant criminal activity that he. became known for, that he was arrested. for. Why was that period your focus? Why. was it important in your estimation to. understand the early period of Epstein's. life? Well, Epstein built an extensive. sex trafficking operation all over the. world and that was really expensive and. it required the support of a lot of. powerful people. And so the question for. us has been how did he get in a position.

where he had the money and the power and. the connections to do that. This was a. guy who came from a really working-class. background. He grew up in Coney Island. in Brooklyn. His dad was an employee of. the New York City parks department. He. was really kind of scraping by growing. up and. >> then somehow starts to climb this ladder. which will bring him to the upper. echelons of Wall Street and American. politics. And I think the absence of. information about Epstein and his early.

years has given rise to just a vast. number of conspiracy theories ranging. from that Epstein was running this super. sophisticated blackmail operation to. that he was affiliated with intelligence. services. And the period from basically. the mid 1970s to the early 1990s for the. most part has been just a complete black. box. And so our goal when we started. reporting on this months ago was to try. and get inside that black box and figure. out how Epstein got his start. And the.

bottom line of how he did that was that. he was an extremely successful con man. He stole, he deceived, he manipulated, and he learned over and over again that. he could do so basically with impunity. >> So where does the story begin? >> It begins in 1976. Epstein is a teacher. at the Dalton School in Manhattan and he. gets invited to a reception at an art. gallery and he goes kind of grudgingly. in his tongue and at the reception he.

bumps into the parent of one of his. students who is impressed with his math. chops. And the parent suggests that. maybe he is wasting [music] his time. being a teacher and instead should. consider a career in Wall Street. And. the parent then introduces Epstein to a. guy named Ace Greenberg. >> Very big name. >> Yeah. who at the time was a top. executive at Bear Sterns, which is this. scrappy Wall Street investment bank. And. [music] one of the ways in which it's. scrappy is that it is not going to hire. Ivy League MBAs. [music]. It is looking for what Ace Greenberg.

likes to call PSDs, which stands for. poor, smart, [music] and deeply desirous. of being rich. >> Wow. >> And Epste goes in to meet Greenberg for. a job interview. And Epste fits the. bill. [music] Greenberg is bowled over. by the guy's charisma and charm. and. apparent math prowess and offers him a. job. So he arrives at Bear Sterns and he. quickly becomes the protege to some of. the firm's top executives. One is. Greenberg, the guy who hired him, who is.

so taken with Epstein that he introduces. him to his own 20-year-old daughter, and. they start dating, which affords Epstein. something akin to protected status at. the firm. And that really quickly comes. in handy because within a couple of. months of his arrival at Beer Sterns, Epstein's boss, a guy named Michael. Tenenbomb, learns from the HR department. that Epstein had lied on his resume. about having graduated from college. >> And so Tenbomb summons Epste into his. office, is not really sure what to do. about this because, you know, this is a.

very serious infraction. On the other. hand, the guy is dating the boss's. daughter and confronts Epstein with. this, expecting Epstein to lie and. dissemble and deny, which in that case. would allow Tennibomb to easily fire. him. Instead, Epstein says, "You're. right. It's true. I did lie." And the. reason he lied, Epstein goes on to say, is that if he didn't lie, there is no. way a firm like Beer Sterns or anyone. else is going to give him a chance. without having a college diploma. And.

Tenbomb is so taken aback and disarmed. by this honesty that he decides to give. Epstein a second chance. And this is a. pattern we will see repeating over and. over and over again. >> It's sort of remarkable because first of. all, he gets this job because in a way. Ace Greenberg is like fetishizing his. lower middle class background, right? Something that would have been a. disadvantage to somebody else is an. advantage to Epstein. He gets his foot. in the door. And then when he gets. caught, he doesn't just make himself. sympathetic. He actually makes himself a. victim of the institution where he's.

working, right? Like I had no choice but. to lie. Otherwise, you big powerful mean. Wall Street bank would never have taken. a chance on me. >> Yeah. And to tennbomb, you know, this is. now what 40 or 45 years later. When I. spoke to him, he was still kind of. marveling at Epstein's knack for. understanding human dynamics so well. that just on the spur of the moment, he. understood that that would be something. that was likely to get him a second. chance. >> And sure enough, it worked. >> So what happens next? >> Well, he keeps his job and he starts.

very quickly climbing through the ranks. at Bear Sterns. [music]. Within a few years, he has been named a. limited partner, which means that he is. getting paid boatloads of money at that. point. Something like $800,000 in. today's dollars. And yet, the problems. still keep bubbling up. I mean, Epstein. was found to abuse his expense account. He took a work trip to the Caribbean and. charged Beer Sterns something like. $10,000 on jewelry and clothing for his.

girlfriend. So, this is after he was. dating the boss's [music] daughter. >> Mhm. Another thing is that it turns out. that he has been helping his girlfriend. get early access to lucrative investment. deals at Bear Sterns, which is a. violation certainly of the company's. rules if not the law. And he's helping. his high school friend get a loan to buy. securities at Bear Sterns, which is also. a violation of company policies if not. the law. And eventually Beer Sterns gets. wind of this and starts investigating. And Epstein [music].

is kind of headed for a slap on the. wrist. he's likely to get uh pay a. financial penalty and also be suspended. for a couple of months. And [music]. instead of suffering that indignity, he. decides to resign, saying that he's been. deeply offended by the fact that he was. even being investigated. [music]. So, one of the many things he learned at. Bear Sterns through this network of. acquaintances and colleagues that he. built up was basically how to act and.

behave as a really rich person. >> Is this like which fork to use or is. this about acting comfortable or giving. off an air of ease in the face of. >> It's both. It is what fork to use. It's. how to dress appropriately, how to. introduce yourself to a member of. royalty or to a senior politician, but. it's also to have the confidence that he. belongs in these settings, in these. rooms with rich and powerful people. And. that immediately pays dividends for him. A former Bear Sterns colleague.

introduces him to a guy named Michael. Stroll, who is a video game executive, and Epstein persuades Stroll to hand him. $450,000, which is about 10% of Stroll's net. worth, to invest in what Epste claims is. an oil deal. >> There's no evidence that any oil deal. existed. And Stroll loses virtually all. of his money and keeps pestering. Epstein, saying, "Where is my money? you. promised me we would get this kind of. payout. Epstein rebuffs him over and.

over again. At one point sends him a. pint of crude oil to convince him that. the oil deal actually does exist. Wow. >> But the money is just gone ultimately. And so this is one of Epstein's huge. first killings. He walks away with what. appears to be several hundred,000 of. money that he just stole from this guy. And nothing really happens. And Stroll. files a lawsuit against him. It bounces. around the federal court system for. years. Ultimately, Epstein prevails on. technical grounds. And so Epste is now.

two for two. He cheated and lied at Bear. Sterns and essentially got away with it. Now he's cheating and lying with this. video game executive and walking away. with his money once again with impunity. And for someone like Epstein, the. message there is very clear, which is. that if you lie and cheat well enough. and often enough and are sufficiently. manipulative, you can make a real living. doing this. >> So, he's not only learning that he can. get away with it, but it sounds like. he's learning that he's getting away. with it at a larger level and with.

people who are arguably within his. social network. >> Yeah, that's right. And Epstein is. nothing if not a very good student of. fraud and thievery. And you can see him. progressing from one stage of this to. the next and getting more ambitious and. bolder and bolder the more times he. pulls this off and the more times he. gets away with it. >> So where does he go from here? >> So Epstein around this time has been. referring to himself as a financial. bounty hunter. basically someone who.

like tracks down hidden assets all over. the world. And as it happens, we're in. the kind of early 1980s at this point. He is dating a Spanish actress named. Anna Obergon. >> And it turns out that her family has. just realized that they've lost millions. of dollars in the implosion of a. securities firm in New York. And so they. hire Epstein to track down their missing. money. and he pairs up with a friend of. his who's a former federal prosecutor.

and together they spend the next couple. years trying to track down these missing. assets and lo and behold they find them. They're in a bank in the Cayman Islands. >> and Epstein and his buddy charter a jet. go down to Cayman and somehow walk away. with millions of dollars of these. securities. They recover it and get paid. a certain portion of that as a fee. And. so Epstein by this point is almost. certainly a millionaire, which is really. it's a quite an extraordinary turnaround.

for a guy who just a few years earlier. was this working-class guy trying to. make a living as a high school teacher. >> The story of the recovered money though. is also so interesting because one of. the narratives about Epstein in recent. years in recent memory is that this guy. was not actually a financial genius. That's the thing you get you you hear. over and over again. And people are. like, why would would these billionaires. hand him millions of dollars to manage. when he wasn't proving himself as. singular in any particular way? But this.

is the only story I think I am familiar. with where he really provides tangible. value to people in a way that does seem. quite singular, >> right? And to be frank, it's one of the. things I've struggled with a little bit. in reporting the story and in. understanding the story because Epstein, he likes to present himself as this. financial genius. We have not seen. evidence to support that claim. We do. see here some glimmer of cleverness that. does set him apart. And so around this.

time, Epstein has amassed enough money. that he has gone from having been kind. of chased out of Beer Sterns with his. tail between his legs to now he returns. to Beer Sterns this time as a valued. client. He's doing lots of trading through the. firm which produces revenue for Bear. Sterns which makes Bear Sterns very. eager to keep him in its good graces. And so they start extending some favors. to him. >> Favors like what? >> Well, one of Epste's former managers at.

the firm who is now helping to run him. as a client has a very attractive young. assistant named Patricia Schmidt. And. one night in 1987, the manager asks. Schmidt to deliver some papers to. Epstein's apartment at night. And. Schmidt goes over to the apartment. Epstein makes her tea, gives her a tour. of his very nice apartment building, and. invites her to come back whenever she. wants to use the building's swimming. pool. And Schmidt takes him up on that. offer. And thus begins a year-long.

sexual relationship between Schmidt and. Epstein. And one of the things we found in our. reporting is that the same Bear Stern's. manager on multiple other occasions also. sent young female assistants over to. Epstein's apartment and that ended up. leading to sexual relationships. And Epste seems to realize that if Bear. Sterns can use women as a source of.

leverage, so can he. And Schmidt, when I. spoke with her, she was very cleareyed. about her role in this and that she was. being used. And the way she described it. to me was that I was his play thing and. Epstein perceived her as someone that's. going to help him get where he wants to. go. And sure enough, we see him start to. use Schmidt for other things such as he. would have Schmidt give his clients and. acquaintances tours around Wall Street, bringing them into Bear Sterns, maybe. take them out to a nice dinner. And so.

Epstein had discovered that he could use. attractive young women was a potent form. of currency as he sought to impress and. cultivate relationships with rich and. powerful people whom he wanted to do. business with. >> He's taking advantage of the fact that. other people are motivated by sex and. they might do something for him if he. does something for them, i.e. send this. woman out to meetings with them. As far. as we can tell, this is probably the. first time that Epstein has really fully. discovered his ability to use women to.

really advance his own agenda. And at. the same time around now, Epstein has. also really cultivated enough. connections and built enough wealth that. those things start compounding upon each. other. And we will see over the ensuing decade. that Epstein really takes that to the. next level and starts building. connections with kind of the creme de la. creme of American finance and society. And so he'll build and exploit.

relationships with people like David. Rockefeller, like Les Wexner, the retail. tycoon, ultimately with big institutions. and big banks like JP Morgan. And this. is the Epstein who we all now know, right? is someone who has built this. huge network not only of young women and. girls whom he's abusing but also this. cast of rich, powerful, famous men who. have supported him and enabled him along. the way.

[music]. >> We'll be right back. So David, you've described a lot of the. lessons that Epstein learned in his. early years that allowed him to climb. his way up the social ladder, that. allowed him to amass great wealth, and. of course enabled his criminal activity. over many, many years. But one name that. you have not mentioned is Donald Trump.

and pressure on the president is what. led to the disclosure of these files. because people want to understand what. evidence the government has about. Jeffrey Epstein and his criminal. behavior and the network in which he. operated. And so I wonder then how are. we to think about where Donald Trump. fits into Epstein's early years? >> Well, Epstein and Trump were operating. in very similar social circles for a. number of years. basically from the late. 1980s into the early 2000s. They were at.

times apparently very close friends. And. our colleague Nick Confesori has just. spent months digging into this. And one. of the findings in his investigation was. that not only were they close friends. for years, but they were also competing. with each other for young women. And. Nick and his story described Epstein and. Trump as being one another's wingmen. That being said, there are still a lot. of unanswered questions about the exact. nature of that relationship. If there.

were business dealings between the two. of them, for example, and it is not. clear to me whether there are answers. that are lurking in these as yet. undisclosed Epstein files that the Trump. administration is sitting on. And one. way to think about this is that at the. outset, what the Justice Department has. been told and is required under law to. release are files related to the federal. investigations of Epstein over the. years. And it is not clear to me that. federal investigators were doing a whole.

lot of investigating into the men with. whom Epstein was associated, whether. that's Trump or men like Leon Black or. Les Wexner or people like that. And so. to the extent that those were not. subjects of investigation, we're not. likely to see a tremendous amount about. them in these files. But at the same. time, there's also a question of why. exactly Trump and his administration. have been so reluctant to come clean. about what is in these files to begin. with. And if they had just released this. stuff when they said they would back. early in this year, we might not be.

talking about this anymore. or in the. fact that they have been fighting so. hard against full transparency here, it. does suggest that there is something in. there that they want to hide. >> But at the same time, one of the things. I've never quite understood about the. Epstein files, as we have been calling. them, is if there was evidence of. criminal behavior on the part of Trump. or any of these other notable figures. that has been in the possession of the. DOJ across multiple administrations for. years. And so I don't mean to come off.

as naive and say like if the DOJ had. evidence of crimes, why would they not. investigate it? But I I just don't quite. understand why exactly we believe that. it wouldn't have come out before now. >> It's not self-evident that this would. have already come out for at least two. reasons. One reason is that, you know, it's become, I think, accepted. conventional wisdom that if an. administration has damaging information. about its political enemies that that. will immediately be released. That is. not the way. justice departments have.

historically operated. And so it's. entirely possible that a previous. administration's. justice department might have had. damaging information about its opponents. that it kept under wraps because it was. supposed to do so. That's thing one. Thing two is that it is also entirely. possible that there could have been. reports or suspicions or investigative. trails that were followed that did lead. to powerful men and powerful. institutions and those investigations. went nowhere. Maybe because there wasn't.

evidence, but also it could be because. there's a a long history of federal. investigators not aggressively pursuing. cases that involve white collar. defendants. When you have some of the. richest, most powerful people in the. world, it is not surprising and it's not. a conspiracy to think that those people. might get away with it. >> I guess the reason why I'm sort of. lingering on this is that it feels like. everybody is waiting for another shoe to. drop. Everyone is waiting with baited. breath to see what's in these files and. maybe these files will finally answer.

our persistent questions about Epstein's. orbit and Donald Trump. But it feels. like the picture that's emerging, at. least from your reporting, is that we. already kind of know the answer about. how Epstein became Epstein in some way, which is that he didn't need to be a. secret spy or whatever these other. conspiracy theories that have popped up. in intervening years would suggest. He. just needed to be a remarkably savvy guy. who learned very early on that he could.

manipulate people. He could commit. crimes and he could basically get away. with anything he wanted as he climbed up. the ladder. >> Yeah, I think that's right. And I think. there's been a lot of really good. reporting that has peeled back a lot of. layers of the Epstein story. I do think. that there are still a bunch of layers. left to unpeel. And I'm not holding out. a huge degree of confidence that these. files as they get released are going to. do much of that peeling, >> but I do think there is still a ton of. important questions that have not been.

answered. And I think the Epstein saga. for years now has been kind of a. political roar test and that people on. the left or many people on the left view. it as a weapon with which to go after. Donald Trump. I think on the right a lot. of people view this as a vehicle to. attack kind of liberal globalist. institutions and individuals. And I. think the truth is probably somewhere in. the middle, right? That there are a lot. of very rich powerful men who enabled. Epstein and may have participated in. some of his crimes. I do not think that.

there has been very much accountability. for those men yet. And I don't think. that we have a full sense of what. information may or may not be in these. government files pertaining to those. men. But I think the reason people think. that there may be more shoes to drop, it's partly that their dreams of having. their political enemies crushed by the. Epstein scandal remain unfulfilled. But. it's also partly of recognition that. there were so many people involved in. supporting Epstein and allowing his. criminal network to prosper.

>> that it just doesn't feel right that. only two people, Jeffrey Epste and his. associate Gain Maxwell have really been. held to account for this so far. Okay, but speaking of being held accountable, I do wonder if that's the takeaway here. because on the one hand, obviously. Jeffrey Epstein died in a jail cell. On. the other hand, he got away with. horrific crimes and amassed so much. money and power over the years. We've. been talking this whole conversation. about the lessons that Epstein learned. in order to do that, but I do wonder.

what lessons we as the public should. learn looking at Epstein's story and how. he came to an end. Well, look, dying in a jail cell is no. one's idea of a happy ending. That said, the story of Epstein is really one of. impunity, and he, as you said, got away. with this for years, despite repeated. red flags, despite many warnings, despite many victims coming forward and. trying to blow the whistle on him. And. to me, it's also a broader story of.

impunity. Not just about Jeffrey. Epstein, but the people around him, many. of whom really have not had a public. reckoning about the roles they play in. this. [music]. The reason that people remain obsessed. about Epstein to a large degree, I. think, is that there are so many people. out there [music] who have not had a. similar public reckoning. And so to me, that's the great takeaway that for. people with a lot of money and power and. connections, they really can act with.

impunity. [music]. >> David Enrich, thank you so much. >> Thanks for having [music] me. >> Late on Monday night, the Department of. Justice released more files related to. the investigation of Jeffrey Epstein. [music]. The documents contained hundreds of. references to President Trump, although. most of them are from media reports, unverified tips, and [music] discussions. among investigators, including a mention.

that Trump was a passenger on Epstein's. private jet [music] eight times between. 1993 and 1996. None of the mentions appear to be. evidence of wrongdoing. We'll be right back. Here's what else you need to know today. [music]. President Trump announced on Monday that. the Navy would build two new quote.

[music] Trump class battleships with the. eventual goal of acquiring 25. The move. was the latest example of the president. rebranding an aspect of the federal. government in his image. The announcement also comes as the US. has ratcheted up its threats against. [music] Venezuela's President Nicholas. Maduro and intercepted tankers that. serve the country's oil industry. [music] And in a move that prompted. criticism from a veteran correspondent, [music] CBS News abruptly removed a.

segment about El Salvador's notorious. SECOT prison [music] from an episode of. 60 Minutes after the network's new. chief, Barry Weiss, said the segment. needed additional [music] reporting. The. decision drew condemnation inside and. outside the network where critics of. Weiss saw [music] the move as evidence. that the network was more interested in. cowtowing to the Trump administration. than preserving its journalistic [music]. integrity. Today's episode was produced by Claire.

Tennis, [music]. Olivia Nat, and Mary Wilson. It was. edited by Devon Taylor and Lexi Dio. contains [music] music by Leah Sha. Demoron, Alicia Bitube, and Marian. Lozano, and was engineered by Alyssa. Moxley. [music]. [music]. That's it for the Daily. I'm Rachel.

Abrams. See you tomorrow. [music].